I'm rooting for Soma in the finals, he was looking unstoppable in previous games. I'm glad we'll get to watch Larva vs Flash next, that one should be fun!
1:17:33 "This is the only matchup you're really ever gonna see (more than 1 control group of Mutas)" !!! Jaedong vs Iris on Sin Chupung-Ryeong, OZ vs CJ 2009 Winner's League Final! Finally, I get to be a TL snob! I've waited years for this moment LMAO Oh, and I'm pretty sure he did that to either Upmagic or Fantasy too. Edit: vs Upmagic on Blue Storm. I knew I saw the highlight somewhere before. Shit, that was in EVER 2007, his debut OSL...
Haven't watched full video yet, but yall ever notice how a ZvZ always has the longest amount of time before the 1st match starts? Haha gotta get that air time in.
I wish TH-cam would implement some kind of spoiler prevention by hiding the length of a video. Until then, uploaders could just fill in some random blank space at the end of each VOD.
Dan, for the love of all that is holy, it's 'FEWER' mutas. Fewer!!!! Fewer is for things you can count! Less is for things you can't!! For years I have considered flying to Seoul, not for the blessed Starcraft, but to sit in the ASL/GSL audience and hold a giant sign that pleads 'IT'S FEWER MUTAS, DAN'. Larva has less hair, possibly less height. He may have less Hot6 in his glass. But - OH MY GOSH - if Queen has FEWER mutas, the less chance he has of winning! Right?? Guahhhhhhhhhhhh
Statistically speaking, no matter the sport almost nobody comes back from being down 0-3 in a series or even from 1-3. The point is that its not 100%. Teams have done it before and so that means it's possible. I like best of 7 because not only is it beneficial to fans to be able to watch more games but that it at least gives the players a chance to come back. The only counter argument to my point is that "players rarely comeback". I think that adds incentive to keep best of 7, that way when someone does comeback it makes it that much more special.
Bo7 is better as long as you have enough balanced maps for it and you arent giving any race a free win by forcing a map that would be hard vetoed in bo5 (obviously doesn't apply to mirror)
I agree with everything you said. But I would like to add that I think the players should get some vetoes and narrow it down to 3 maps, with the loser of the previous game choosing the next map. And make it so a map can only be used 3 times per series.
Isn't that the goal of a BO7 is to give both players the opportunity to use all of their play against it's opponent to find the best player. If it takes 5 games that's great, but if it needs 7 at least it's there.
As a non-Zerg player, I'm curious: do hydras not trade well with muta? Could a player not go hydra in ZvZ, at least as part of their defense or as a transition? Seems to me some hydras would help in some situations but we don't see them.
They do not trade well. First it's a gas sink, which is absurdly important for Mutas. Second, it's that they deal Explosive damage. Mutas, for some reason being "small" units, will take 50% damage from Hydras. Third, you gotta try to micro against Mutas with Hydras which isn't fun. Instead, people just build Spores. More cost efficient and reliable.
Ah, the explosive damage was not something I'd considered. That all makes sense. It's too bad... personally I would love to see some more strategic variation in ZvZ. It's my least favourite mirror in SC1. I know that it's likely never going to change though!
@@appidydafoo well that is arguably subjective. Me personally I think TvT's are epic to watch and I also don't mind a PvP or ZvZ here and there. But yea I see what OP was trying to say, I just wanted to point out that nothing really went wrong. It was a great season and if u dont like to watch a ZvZ it doesn't really matter if its the finals or the qualifiers.
@@ersatztutor its pretty well known / fact that alot of the games where completely one sided and a wipe out, Almost as if we where watching pros vs nubs and the pros didnt hold anything back RO8 was mostly disapointing, RO16 was mostly disapointing i mean was fun to watch flash mostly becouse he was f-in random and such but still SOOO many matches look completely one sided we would have BO5 last only 3 matches and be quick ones, ALOT of the streams lasted under an hour, And the matches where over. and when the 2 most exciting players / players who brought the interesting matches that lasted longer then an hour among other things are in 3rd place? Yeah you done goofed, the matches have been pretty much recently, This past year i only been excited about like RO24 and such in all honesty lol. also Mirror match ups are considerd bland/boring/not interesting for the most part as such yeah done fucked up.
Spoiler As expected an anti climactic series. I even said to myself after game 1 “that win meant nothing I bet he loses 4 straight”. I’m a fan of both Larva and Queen so I’m happy either way. PS buff the observer and make it twice as strong!!! Long live Auir!
We always said,”the map is Terran’s map.” In fact, it’s just Flash’s map always. After Flash used Random, might any other Terran still powerful? Z vs Z is the most boring against in SC!
Normally I HATE ZvZzzzzz matchups but THIS series was *Phenomenal* Just a totally entertaining series. 놀랍게도, 제 의견으로는 오늘의 게임들이 정말 재미있었어요. 보통 ZvZzz 진짜 싫어해요! ZvZ가 진짜 심심하잖아요 하지만 이 경기들은 너무나 좋다. 쩐다. 저그 선수들밖에 선수 없어요. 저그만 남았어요. 테란과 저그 선수들은 항상 ASL 이겼다. 제 생각에는 불공평해요. P.S. 이 단어 "불공평하다" 흔한 단어입니까? 제가 가끔 한국어를 말할 때 제 한국어가 자연스럽지 않아요. 이 단어를 해야 할래요?
these days, top gamers are playing games with sponsorship. he once said that he hated burdening fans. when he lose he get stress much cause fans take for granted even if he performs well. that also seems to be one of reason for lack of motivation
Flash T is, after him it's either Light or Queen for sure! (Light had a really really really tough group and barely fell, Queen had a super easy group)
@@xunap I think Flash's Terran is overrated. His Terran is exceptional, sure, but nowhere near as invincible as people like to say. He only won one ASL in the 2018->2020 years; it's not like he's been dominating the competition. At the moment, the best players are probably Queen and Soma. Queen does look a bit more solid.
@@GrandBenja ya he only has over a 70% winrate in every matchup, more championships than anyone alive. He’s pretty over rated though since he’s only won HALF of the ASL’s lmao
@@xunap I don’t think you can argue that as right now he’s playing random and he lost a game as terran yesterday. He’s the greatest gamer of all time for sure but he’s got to prove it year on year. If he’s chosen terran this tournament, he would have probably won it, and we’d be saying he’s the strongest. But he lost vs queen in the last asl and in this asl he played random. So I don’t see that’s a valid argument
Good point. It's not Afreeca's fault if the likes of Snow and Sharp completely failed this season. It's not like the competition was rigged to make Zerg win.
Have a map pool that are very TvZ and PvZ favoured, to compensate for how it seems like the top zerg players are a plateau above the top protoss' or top terran's sans Flash and Rain.
@@GrandBenja Fair perspective, but in previous years there have been accusations that map pools have favoured 1 race or the other, or there are maps that 1 race always vetos, without it being fully fledged rigging just perhaps balancing the odds a bit.
@@GrandBenja what hiddenmessage is trying to say is to balance out the maps where the other two races actually stand a chance against the top Zergs. One could make a strong argument that the current ASL map pool is rigged for Zerg to win (dominate actually). Can you argue against that?
Well whether it is my taste or not, ZvZ is perhaps the most boring mirror matchup to watch by a mile. Yes the micro and quick decision making is nice and all but watching nonstop ling muta while know that this season will end with ling muta is pretty anticlimactic compared to some of the matches in the ro.16 that was really hype. I hope people still support ASL, but ZvZ is just too boring for as well as some people to tune in.
Just wondering why? He has the cleanest APM in the game (closest apm to eapm) He used to play about 250apm. Went to the military, and now plays 300+ apm with a higher eapm than his pre military days. He is a monster. Might be at the highest peak skill of any player ever (at the very least #2 behind flash)
Most of the critics are aimed to this season being hard to swallow due to so many zerg players in the final. It is enough to take a look on how other races players approached to their game, moves that they took and everything is clear. It is not zerg being OP, it is other players making so many mistakes, and lacking to change their tactics that it was painfull to watch. Every race has so many 'cards' they can choose from, and yet players are using same cards over and over again.
If not for novelty of flash's random, this season will not live long in the mind of memorable games and has been the least fun/most regular in terms of 1 sided matchups of the asls and ksls in recent years. R24 had some moments, and group B in round 16 was mostly excellent and Free vs Snow was 1 of the most stunning pvps I've ever seen. I really enjoyed mini vs soulkey and snow vs soulkey games on ringing bloom. I'm sure there was others too I'm forgetting. This is me focussing on positives though. I like all mirror matchups, except ZvsZ is too repetitive, always short or medium length, and not enough varied unit options to make it much of a spectacle. I guess what I'm saying is Flash (T), Queen and Soma are too good and can shatter the illusion that this is a balanced-ish fun watching experience where upsets seem possible.
As good as Flash, Queen and Soma are, I think this season was more of a case of the other players failing. The likes of Snow, Light, Stork, Sharp and Bisu had a very disappointing performance. Hopefully they show up next year!
Haven't watched full video yet, but yall ever notice how a ZvZ always has the longest amount of time before the 1st match starts? Haha gotta get that air time in.
![[ENG] AfreecaTV StarLeague(ASL) S10 Ro.4 Match1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cahNy3rqpus/mqdefault.jpg)
![[ENG] AfreecaTV StarLeague(ASL) S10 Ro.4 Match1](/img/tr.png)
![[ENG] AfreecaTV StarLeague(ASL) S10 3rd Place Match](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Abq7gWLc2gU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[ENG] AfreecaTV StarLeague(ASL) S9 Ro.8 Day1](/img/n.gif)
Game 1: Benzene @ 00:31:00
Game 2: Polypoid @ 49:50
Game 3: Optimizer @ 1:02:55
Game 4: Shakuras Temple @ 1:25:35
Game 5: Eclipse @ 1:37:45
Game 6: Plasma @ 1:48:15
Game 7: ringing Bloom @ 1:55:25
I'm rooting for Soma in the finals, he was looking unstoppable in previous games.
I'm glad we'll get to watch Larva vs Flash next, that one should be fun!
I think Larva has a good shot at taking third place. As you said, that one should be fun!
Queen >>> Doma
Omg i totally forgot about that match. Thanks for making my day! Can't wait for that.
last season queen was a lot better than soma, maybe they're closer this time around though
Btw if anyone wondering about the match intro musics used, they are mostly from Northlane's Alien album for example at 48:30 the song is "4D"
1:17:33 "This is the only matchup you're really ever gonna see (more than 1 control group of Mutas)"
!!! Jaedong vs Iris on Sin Chupung-Ryeong, OZ vs CJ 2009 Winner's League Final! Finally, I get to be a TL snob! I've waited years for this moment LMAO
Oh, and I'm pretty sure he did that to either Upmagic or Fantasy too. Edit: vs Upmagic on Blue Storm. I knew I saw the highlight somewhere before. Shit, that was in EVER 2007, his debut OSL...
I also had to think of JD immediately.
Your quote even leaves it open to available in other matchups lol. Just very rare
I was shown this clip very recently! It's immaculate. It's basically TAS level optimal muta control
+Stephen Andrew I agree, of course. I'll still take it though, lol
ZvT vs Mech you can play against more than 1 group of mutas
Haven't watched full video yet, but yall ever notice how a ZvZ always has the longest amount of time before the 1st match starts? Haha gotta get that air time in.
Lol.
@skcansMachine the last round of 4 was over half an hour longer, and had quite a few zvz
lacsm... los zergss estan en las finaless joderr...
This are gonna be the best 3rd place matches ever :D
larva should go random too if possible
Game 1 30:58
Game 2 49:52
Game 3 1:02:52
Game 4 1:25:32
Game 5 1:37:50
after seeing Flash's ZvZ a couple days ago, you realize that this is ACTUALLY good ZvZ :P
TRANSLATE THE INTERVIEWS PLEASE THANK YOU I LOVE YOU AFREECA TV
what's the music track playing right at the start of the video?
edit: it's Awoke · Oliver Michael
I wish TH-cam would implement some kind of spoiler prevention by hiding the length of a video.
Until then, uploaders could just fill in some random blank space at the end of each VOD.
p sure there are browser plugins for this.
There was a channel that did that but they got banned.
Dan, for the love of all that is holy, it's 'FEWER' mutas. Fewer!!!! Fewer is for things you can count! Less is for things you can't!! For years I have considered flying to Seoul, not for the blessed Starcraft, but to sit in the ASL/GSL audience and hold a giant sign that pleads 'IT'S FEWER MUTAS, DAN'.
Larva has less hair, possibly less height. He may have less Hot6 in his glass. But - OH MY GOSH - if Queen has FEWER mutas, the less chance he has of winning! Right?? Guahhhhhhhhhhhh
Well, you can't really count Mutalisks when they are stacked.
You good bro?
Maybe drink a glass of water and spend some time outside
Ok bruh relax
what does the word 'less' mean if it only applies to things that can't be counted?
Statistically speaking, no matter the sport almost nobody comes back from being down 0-3 in a series or even from 1-3. The point is that its not 100%. Teams have done it before and so that means it's possible. I like best of 7 because not only is it beneficial to fans to be able to watch more games but that it at least gives the players a chance to come back. The only counter argument to my point is that "players rarely comeback". I think that adds incentive to keep best of 7, that way when someone does comeback it makes it that much more special.
I agree. Best of 7 is way better than bo5.
Bo7 is better as long as you have enough balanced maps for it and you arent giving any race a free win by forcing a map that would be hard vetoed in bo5 (obviously doesn't apply to mirror)
I agree with everything you said. But I would like to add that I think the players should get some vetoes and narrow it down to 3 maps, with the loser of the previous game choosing the next map. And make it so a map can only be used 3 times per series.
I didn't understand what the animal game is about, but they still got me laughing so hard. :D
47:31
Animal Crossing will never be an eSport
@@Clarity-808 hahaha - ok, I think I can see why.
th-cam.com/video/_3YNL0OWio0/w-d-xo.html
Isn't that the goal of a BO7 is to give both players the opportunity to use all of their play against it's opponent to find the best player. If it takes 5 games that's great, but if it needs 7 at least it's there.
I don't know if the game the casters talked about: Boxer vs a blind zerg player who 4 pooled is more sad or funny xD
As a non-Zerg player, I'm curious: do hydras not trade well with muta? Could a player not go hydra in ZvZ, at least as part of their defense or as a transition?
Seems to me some hydras would help in some situations but we don't see them.
They do not trade well. First it's a gas sink, which is absurdly important for Mutas. Second, it's that they deal Explosive damage. Mutas, for some reason being "small" units, will take 50% damage from Hydras. Third, you gotta try to micro against Mutas with Hydras which isn't fun.
Instead, people just build Spores. More cost efficient and reliable.
Ah, the explosive damage was not something I'd considered. That all makes sense. It's too bad... personally I would love to see some more strategic variation in ZvZ. It's my least favourite mirror in SC1. I know that it's likely never going to change though!
when you're more excited about 3th place match than the final, you know something went wrong in this season,
anyway I hope Soma wins
PLEASE DON'T GET ZERG FLASHU!!!!
how is there something "wrong"?
it's just the fact that regardless of player skill, mirror matchups are just not as interesting. nothing went wrong
@@appidydafoo well that is arguably subjective. Me personally I think TvT's are epic to watch and I also don't mind a PvP or ZvZ here and there. But yea I see what OP was trying to say, I just wanted to point out that nothing really went wrong.
It was a great season and if u dont like to watch a ZvZ it doesn't really matter if its the finals or the qualifiers.
@@ersatztutor its pretty well known / fact that alot of the games where completely one sided and a wipe out, Almost as if we where watching pros vs nubs and the pros didnt hold anything back
RO8 was mostly disapointing, RO16 was mostly disapointing
i mean was fun to watch flash mostly becouse he was f-in random and such but still SOOO many matches look completely one sided we would have BO5 last only 3 matches and be quick ones, ALOT of the streams lasted under an hour, And the matches where over.
and when the 2 most exciting players / players who brought the interesting matches that lasted longer then an hour among other things are in 3rd place? Yeah you done goofed, the matches have been pretty much recently, This past year i only been excited about like RO24 and such in all honesty lol.
also Mirror match ups are considerd bland/boring/not interesting for the most part as such yeah done fucked up.
lejos QUEEN the SUPERCAMPEON!!
Game 2 was Larva leaving it at 2 gas drones until 6 minutes on purpose?
I BET LARVA CAN BENCHPRESS QUEEN!
lacsm... los zergss estan en las finaless joderr...
Sad to watch knowing just a few years later queen has fallen off so far as to losing to an unnown amateur and larva is retired
does anyone have a link to the video they were laughing at @47:15 ?
Yeah! Looking for this too.
Spoiler
As expected an anti climactic series. I even said to myself after game 1 “that win meant nothing I bet he loses 4 straight”.
I’m a fan of both Larva and Queen so I’m happy either way.
PS buff the observer and make it twice as strong!!! Long live Auir!
Man. I like Larva a lot more than Queen, but that went about as expected.
Lol why does Larva look like he's posing for an MMA mug shot?
cause he is a huge mma fan and actually challenges mma ☺
th-cam.com/video/nlUuhQfj0No/w-d-xo.html
was hoping larva would win. dammit larva.
"Maybe larva can bust in there" -Artosis
We always said,”the map is Terran’s map.” In fact, it’s just Flash’s map always. After Flash used Random, might any other Terran still powerful? Z vs Z is the most boring against in SC!
1:15:22 looool
I thought larva was supposed to fight zero, not queen? Did something change?
Queen is Zero, just an alternate ID. liquipedia.net/starcraft/ZerO
@@michaelcao ah, didnt know that. Very confusing
@1:33:26 "KEEP THOSE EYES OPEN!!"
Normally I HATE ZvZzzzzz matchups but THIS series was *Phenomenal* Just a totally entertaining series. 놀랍게도, 제 의견으로는 오늘의 게임들이 정말 재미있었어요. 보통 ZvZzz 진짜 싫어해요! ZvZ가 진짜 심심하잖아요 하지만 이 경기들은 너무나 좋다. 쩐다. 저그 선수들밖에 선수 없어요. 저그만 남았어요. 테란과 저그 선수들은 항상 ASL 이겼다. 제 생각에는 불공평해요.
P.S. 이 단어 "불공평하다" 흔한 단어입니까? 제가 가끔 한국어를 말할 때 제 한국어가 자연스럽지 않아요. 이 단어를 해야 할래요?
its not awkward. 불공평하다 is often spoken or written in korean
@@ghtjdrla Nice man 정말 감사합니다! 2년 동안 한국어를 배웠어요. 새 단어들을 아직 배우는 중이에여. 도와 줘서 고맙다요.
Anyone knows when is the 3rd place match schedule?
on 7th Nov 7pm
Anyone know why Rain didn't play this year?
these days, top gamers are playing games with sponsorship. he once said that he hated burdening fans. when he lose he get stress much cause fans take for granted even if he performs well. that also seems to be one of reason for lack of motivation
He's my favorite protoss. Miss him.
I was so hoping to see queen having more larva since larva made queens
artosis man i can hear you coughing like a man whos smoked for two lifetimes, get well soon brother
11월 7일 7시
11월 15일 6시
You can find a part of the Blind guy vs Boxer match still in youtube
if you are curious lol
song at 42:30?
gg's
Queen looks like he’ll take this one as well - is he the best player in the world right now?
Flash T is, after him it's either Light or Queen for sure! (Light had a really really really tough group and barely fell, Queen had a super easy group)
@@xunap I think Flash's Terran is overrated. His Terran is exceptional, sure, but nowhere near as invincible as people like to say. He only won one ASL in the 2018->2020 years; it's not like he's been dominating the competition.
At the moment, the best players are probably Queen and Soma. Queen does look a bit more solid.
@@GrandBenja ya he only has over a 70% winrate in every matchup, more championships than anyone alive. He’s pretty over rated though since he’s only won HALF of the ASL’s lmao
@@xunap I don’t think you can argue that as right now he’s playing random and he lost a game as terran yesterday. He’s the greatest gamer of all time for sure but he’s got to prove it year on year. If he’s chosen terran this tournament, he would have probably won it, and we’d be saying he’s the strongest. But he lost vs queen in the last asl and in this asl he played random. So I don’t see that’s a valid argument
If by queen u meant flash: then yes, he’s the best
you can cry about zvz but what can asl do? next season should be better
Good point. It's not Afreeca's fault if the likes of Snow and Sharp completely failed this season. It's not like the competition was rigged to make Zerg win.
Have a map pool that are very TvZ and PvZ favoured, to compensate for how it seems like the top zerg players are a plateau above the top protoss' or top terran's sans Flash and Rain.
@@hiddenmessage12 No, that would be even worse. We don't need a rigged competition.
@@GrandBenja Fair perspective, but in previous years there have been accusations that map pools have favoured 1 race or the other, or there are maps that 1 race always vetos, without it being fully fledged rigging just perhaps balancing the odds a bit.
@@GrandBenja what hiddenmessage is trying to say is to balance out the maps where the other two races actually stand a chance against the top Zergs. One could make a strong argument that the current ASL map pool is rigged for Zerg to win (dominate actually). Can you argue against that?
Well whether it is my taste or not, ZvZ is perhaps the most boring mirror matchup to watch by a mile. Yes the micro and quick decision making is nice and all but watching nonstop ling muta while know that this season will end with ling muta is pretty anticlimactic compared to some of the matches in the ro.16 that was really hype.
I hope people still support ASL, but ZvZ is just too boring for as well as some people to tune in.
Hopefully soma will win. Not a Queen fan.
Just wondering why? He has the cleanest APM in the game (closest apm to eapm)
He used to play about 250apm. Went to the military, and now plays 300+ apm with a higher eapm than his pre military days. He is a monster. Might be at the highest peak skill of any player ever (at the very least #2 behind flash)
@@jeromepowell1392 Surely Rain is up there before Queen.
Most of the critics are aimed to this season being hard to swallow due to so many zerg players in the final.
It is enough to take a look on how other races players approached to their game, moves that they took and everything is clear.
It is not zerg being OP, it is other players making so many mistakes, and lacking to change their tactics that it was painfull to watch.
Every race has so many 'cards' they can choose from, and yet players are using same cards over and over again.
Starcraft remastered overlord looks like its shitin a giant coffee bean (seriously look)
1:13:08
Artosis: I think...blablabla..blabla..
My inner Dwayne "Rock" Johnson: IT DOESN'T MATTER WHATCHA THINK!!!"
ZvZ is boring to watch, oh well. at least flash vs soma was very good. Looking forward to ASL11
Another disappointing match
Zvz matches are beyond boring.
How can someone ever see a knife fight in a phone booth as boring?
TvT are even worst
Feel free not to watch them then. No one is forcing you.
@@naczelnypsycholog6296 tvt is amazing wtf
@@ethansaltmere Yeah, TvT is a bit like a chess positional game. Not that exciting to watch, but very interesting strategy-wise.
Damn I had larva winning this season too lmao
ZvZ is interesting for single matches and short sets, but Jesus Christ it gets boring fast.
That 1/100 lategame macro game ZvZ with devourer, defiler, lurker are the best games you can get though.
Hopefully we get one in the finals
If not for novelty of flash's random, this season will not live long in the mind of memorable games and has been the least fun/most regular in terms of 1 sided matchups of the asls and ksls in recent years.
R24 had some moments, and group B in round 16 was mostly excellent and Free vs Snow was 1 of the most stunning pvps I've ever seen.
I really enjoyed mini vs soulkey and snow vs soulkey games on ringing bloom. I'm sure there was others too I'm forgetting. This is me focussing on positives though.
I like all mirror matchups, except ZvsZ is too repetitive, always short or medium length, and not enough varied unit options to make it much of a spectacle.
I guess what I'm saying is Flash (T), Queen and Soma are too good and can shatter the illusion that this is a balanced-ish fun watching experience where upsets seem possible.
As good as Flash, Queen and Soma are, I think this season was more of a case of the other players failing. The likes of Snow, Light, Stork, Sharp and Bisu had a very disappointing performance. Hopefully they show up next year!
ZvZ is truly the worst matchup
tvt is worst
larva nooo!!!
Gosh, ZvZ sucks so bad
everyone complaining about zvz when TvT is the real snooze fest
nonsense
@@detrockcity3 tank line vs tank line, boring
hi the video looks horrible with a lot of gamut or brightness has absolutely no color if you can improve that
Dislike
Haven't watched full video yet, but yall ever notice how a ZvZ always has the longest amount of time before the 1st match starts? Haha gotta get that air time in.