No matter where you fall on the political spectrum, you have to at least admit that this is a beautiful example of how two incredibly well educated, well spoken people can still act like children on national TV.
Jonathan Duckworth Please do not insult innocent children...only adults are able to engage in the pretense required to be so petty in such a grand event.
Oh god, this tireless tirade everywhere on every one of these Vidal vs Buckley videos. Insults and humour are a part of our intellect and the ability to phaze or center an argument on the character of someone else (i.e. character assassinations) can be marvelous to watch and interesting to learn from if it does stand on solid ground. I much more despise the faux politeness that so easily turns into purely bestial shouting matches on todays American media or in the case of for example my country Swedens just purely hollow discussions that rarely if ever dig even a bit below the surface to the issues that really matter. In Sweden there was barely one article or TV show that debated or analyzed the Libyan war for example in anything other than in "It's bad to kill people and drop bombs but also dictators are bad so maybe we should do that" type of way.
William F Buckleys " Firing Line " forced me to think at an early age. Although I didn't understand all the words, thats a good thing. John F Kennedy or Martin Luther King Jr used words that I didn't know, but they made you think. Murrow, Cronkite, Huntley and Brinkley used words that made you think. So in watching TV, it was possible a young person just might learn something. My regret to a President George W Bush was that his speeches were dummied down as if we were all 6 years old, or he was
My, my, how badly this comment aged! I’m responding to this comment ten years after it was posted. In that time, Donald Trump has been a US President and he made George W. Bush look like Aristotle.
If you believe you learned to think from “firing line” then your definition of “thinking” is specious. To purport a rather pedantic rhetorical postulate on the stasis of definition-what you think is thinking is provocative pablum. In other words, “you still dumb”
You neglected to include what Vidal said right before saying "In every sense," which was: "No you're n[ot]." It's like he just reached into his bag of random lame insults and grabbed two by mistake.
The quality of both the candidates and the press has diminished. And the viewers are asking "boxers or briefs", instead of how will you champion liberty and promote economic growth.
@thingfish000 They're also coming to blows over arguments akin to "boxers or briefs", on top of that. I'll take 2 smug intellectuals wittily trading ridiculous barbs over any episode of The View, or ANY political talk show on ANY channel anywhere on the political spectrum. People scream and shout now over the mildest things. 🤼♀️
You should see him debate james baldwin. Bad form. Here tho, hes up against someone who was much more arrogant and smug. I feel its an apt in this setting.
No one has commented upon the grace and dignity of Howard K. Smith. What a gentleman. His type is apparently gone forever from our culture to be replaced by the likes of Don Lemon and Chris Matthews.
@@waffleocalypse He's the absolute scariest depiction of a bigot in America because he pushes the exact same ideas of the typical white conservative, but packages them in a manner that gives the ideas some semblance of intellectual validity. Luckily, the right wing has gotten so much dumber in the last 1/2 century, the Buckley types can never actually get elected.
@crabbieappleton Kind of like when hearing me try to tell a funny story of what happened during a shopping trip. I can actually go back and edit after writing, insert things, delete things, check for spelling and missing words, and not get distracted -mid sentence- mid *word* and start trying to add important context to something I mentioned 5 minutes ago in the story, and also, there's times where I- oh! Look! Someone brought their dog here! I love German Shepherds! Yeah, my mind is constantly in Edit mode due to being a creative mind with ADD, so I understand tremendously what you mean. 😂
I'm surprised anyone is calling that Buckley-Allen video a debate. It seemed like a very relaxed political discussion between two people with totally different perspectives. But at no point did they argue an issue in depth.
The problem may be perception of smug due to his vernacular, Gore exhibits similar tone principally albeit different in annunciation as Buckley. See Hitchens take on their similarity in 'Best of enemies'. Matter of fact: th-cam.com/video/T1gEfl6WDTk/w-d-xo.html
Mr Vidal would have been better off not being involved in this "debate" as it clearly appeared Buckley just wanted to hear the sound of his own voice drone on and bloviate ad nauseum. The cameras really should have been replaced by mirrors.
"And you certainly must, Bill, maintain your reputation as being the Marie Antoinette of the right-wing and continually imposing your bloodthirsty neurosis", says Vidal. Ah-ah, Maria Antoinette was a... queen!
@@shelbyherring92 No, during the debates Buckley called Vidal gay. It was a scandal but no lawsuit. A few years later Vidal wrote in Esquire magazine about an incident concerning Buckley and his siblings in the early 1940s. It had to do with vandalizing the home of some neighbors and targeting them for their religion. That is what caused Buckley to sue Vidal and Esquire magazine. Buckley lost.
@@BoBo-ti6jh Buckley didn't loose. Vidal counter-sued Buckley for claiming that one of Vidal's novels was pornographic. Vidal's counter suit was thrown out. Buckley accepted a settlement of $115,000 and an editorial apology, so I would say he won.
@@aaronmueller5802 You are mistaken. Your information is wrong. Research and you will find that Buckley won nothing. Vidal lost nothing, hence he won. What is certain is that Buckley humiliated himself on national TV.
Buckley does this funny thing where he flares his eyes to make a point. I found it odd the first time I saw it and thought it was a tic of some kind. I think he might actually have been so strategic that he would use it to subconsciously fuck with people. Especially a massive queen like Gore Vidal. I'd give good money to know what was going through Vidal's mind.
@@Independent5159 "Exceeded them both in the semantics and lexicon of the language and intellectual...." Really? Your babble sounds very much like theirs did back then. Congratulations.
Yes...I do agree...it's quite strange to run into people one knew in high school, for instance, who recognise me but I haven't a clue who he or she is until I am verbally reminded; 'tis always such an awkward moment to have to lie and enthusiastically say "Hey, you look *GREAT*!"
We need these larger than life personalities today instead of the boring talking heads hum drum cookie cutter commentators (news readers) of today. No comparison. Back then they were all unique, so intellectual, and look at the manners of Mr. Buckley ..He would smile as he placed the verbal sword in, lots of times to Vidal, then smile and come out with a clever bon mot as he did it. He had a deliciously dry wit. Gore was every bit his polar opposite politically, and very, very bitchy and funny, but when they got together, the show was on and it was always pure enjoyment. Start the show and get the popcorn!
+Beth Virginia Phillips There was a pretty heated exchange between Bill O'Reilly and George Will a month or two ago on Bill's show - and not all with good manners! But it was entertaining.
It's cavalier voyeurs like yourself who are responsible for the degradation of discourse in this country. Why don't you go watch a Marvel movie instead?
Considering what the French revolutionaries said about Marie Antoinette was propaganda and lies during and after the dreadful French Revolution, that fits. Just not in the way that idiotic and mediocre writer intended.
A summary for all of you too lazy to look up the references: Buckley: "Stop picking on Reagan! You keep saying he was in juvenile films, and that's unfair. Also his acting ability has nothing to do with whether or not he should be President. That would be like me saying you can't talk about political stuff because you write perverted plays!" [Vidal tries to respond to the insult but Buckley won't let him talk] Buckley continues: "I mean we might as well get some perverted playwright in here to talk about politics. Come on! Sorry, you're just jaded because he didn't act in YOUR movies!" Vidal: "Well Buckley's not winning any points in the nice department but notice how he won't talk about Reagan's record. He wants to just do a comedy show. He says he's on the right, but oddly he's always in the wrong. And you're kind of a pansy, really, you had everything handed to you like Marie Antoinette and now you parade around like you deserve your position. So hold your mental problems back a bit, and let's talk about the campaign itself, shall we?
@@BoBo-ti6jh what is it about what I said do you find dumb though? seems to be conventional wisdom, maybe you are the one who is dumb juan. don't forget sweetie, my ancestors built Europe, yours couldn't come up with the wheel 😬
I'm sorry, I don't have the same nostalgia for these types of exchanges that many do here. There was no substance in that exchange, only petty sniping and personal attacks with the occasionally snide comeback.
Ramon Suarez The sad part is that they actually contain more facts than our modern day political debates, which are pretty much conservatives and liberals arguing over their interpretations over the same press releases.
juan curiel I'd agree but the problem is that they rarely digress. Vidal made a great point by the end of their "debate" he should have focuse on instead of trading barbs with Buckley.
+Ramon Suarez I agree. I think Buckley would have been willing to discuss the issues and the GOP and the convention but Vidal was just so full of hate he just wanted to vilify Buckley and attack him.
+Ramon Suarez It seems to me that this series of encounters was unprecedented, and in fact represents a turning point: Prior to this, commentators generally took turns; whereas from here on in, it fairly quickly degenerated towards what we have today, which is about as worthwhile and illuminating - and popular with roughly the same constituency - as, say, pro wrestling or NASCAR.
Buckley & Vidal were “matter and anti-matter”. Effectively polar opposite equals that neither one could defeat outright in war only in battles. Vidal might have had the last word because he died after Buckley died, Buckley had effectively completely ignored or ‘un-personed’ Vidal from his life after the lawsuit.
_IN THIS CORNER, at 5-foot-11, from Washington, D.C., GORE VIDAL!_ _IN THIS CORNER, at 6 foot 1, from New York City, WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY!_ All right, come out at the bell, and let's a have a clean fight!
Buckley lost cred when he stooped to attacking Vidal's person by saying he wasn't qualified to comment because he was a "producer of perverted prose". 😮
Buckley had a dizzying propensity of talking and talking and saying nothing. The poster boy of the Reactionary Right, he loved to hear himself speak above all others. If Gore Vidal ran for president, I'd have voted for him. Read his, "Blood For Oil," if you'd like to hear the unvarnished truth about our actual involvement in Iraq.
Do you happen to have the clip where Vidal calls Buckley a "Crypto-Nazi" and Buckley threatens to "sock him in the goddamn face"? There's a video of it on TH-cam already, but I'd like it in color and higher quality.
People talk about these guys as "intellectuals" but they seem pretty dull to me. The take turns calling each other names, albeit names you might need to look up. YET, they don't offer examples, such as calling Buckley "the Marie Antoinette of the Republican party". Where is the examples? There doesn't need to be--just stuffed shirts name calling. Brilliant? I don't think so.
Not so much in this footage but I find it odd that Buckley in some debates often appears to be leaning back or sat an angle. A nervous tic or a device to put his adversary off guard?
This video, this debate between these two men, I don't care about the politics. I'm here for the _theatrics._ Gems from both parties here include: · "that adjective didn't contribute anything... _extraordinary_ to the human understanding." · "Mr. Vidal sends _all_ of his books to Hollywood, many of which are rejected-" · "I'm almost through-" "No, you're not." ("In every sense" ??) · "I think that the people of California have the right, when they speak overwhelming, to project somebody into national politics, even if he _did_ commit the sin of having acted in movies that were not written by Mr. Vidal." · "He always to the _right,_ and I think almost always in the _wrong."_
Their sexuality aside, Buckley was well-educated but pseudo-intellectual at best. You can see it in his "debate" or interview with Noam Chomsky, a true intellectual who took Buckley to the cleaners. Gore Vidal's charm was that he knew a lot of highly-profile people socially and was a great judge of character and story-teller.
Buckley made a point, turning Vidal's snobby putdowns of Reagan back upon him. Vidal responded by trying to interrupt several times, then by stringing together a bunch of insults.
I prefer Vidal because he happens to be right, but they are alike in that they are both so impressed with their own theatricality and bon mot wit. So even though imo Vidal wins most exchanges, there is little to distinguish them but their positions. Someone like Chomsky wipes the floor with Buckley in part because he refuses to deviate into rhetoric and just relentlessly pursues the argument itself.
I believe the debate blind sided Buckley. He had already made it clear that he wouldn’t share the stage with Vidal, whom he genuinely disliked. So when ABC did reach out to Vidal, unbeknownst to Buckley- he was none too happy. According to Vidal’s assistant- Mr Vidal was all too elated and began serious research for his confrontation with Buckley. The only time he ever prepared like that.
They may have been matched in articulation and although anyone is entitled to be a political commentator Buckley was actually the leading power broker of the right and Vidal had no influence in politics whatsoever
One of the stupidest things about Buckley is that he always acts like Vidal has no political experience and only ever wrote Mia Breckenridge. Like here its still new but he mentions it in almost every confrontation they have. I mean first of all its obvious Vidal doesn't give one iota if you only mention Mia Breckenridge that's just free press to him, secondly he also wrote a book praising Julian the Apostate and thirdly why wouldn't you exploit the fact that Vidal had a complicated relationship with the Kennedys who once supported his political aspirations but dropped him rather harshly? , you could have the man speak against his own party if you did that. I mean Buckley just whines on and on about a book everyone already knows the two men have different opinions about. Yes the man doesn't have the same beliefs as you , who the heck cares after the twentieth time you mention this you whining fool ? People have seen these two have the same conversation again and again for weeks back then , and Buckley just repeats and repeats every time they meet after this. In the final debate he will make the mistake of drawing a comparisons with fascism and Nazism and he rightfully gets the calm calculated reply of Vidal. I mean this man is a total moron ! What did he expect Vidal to reply with ? He is just digging his own grave the entire time.
Tom Bruggeman I agree. Buckley was a bigot who fired cheap insults at everyone he had strong disagreements with. Check out his interviews with Tony Benn in 1980 and the young John Kerry in the early 1970s. I don’t see him remotely as a great thinker, and watching Chomsky destroy him is a thing of beauty.
It’s not British, it’s “Mid-Atlantic” or “transatlantic accent”, which was pretty much a made-up “posh” accent created with the intention of blending together the "standard" speech of both American English and British Received Pronunciation (thus it sounds more British than standard American). It was thought mostly to the upper classes in private schools in the north east US and in acting schools; as such it became the standard in films and radio (that’s why it’s also known today as “old Hollywood accent”)... one can think of it as the first half of the 20th century’s American version of “BBC English”. Both Buckley and Vidal were, and still are, known as good examples of transatlantic speakers, others being the Roosevelts, Jackie O, or Katherine Hepburn. That’s why movies or recordings from TV, radio or politicians speaking back in the 40s sound so characteristic and “weird” to us today. It sounds old fashioned, and certainly has some elements of British pronunciation, but it’s definitely not British.
really "fascism" doesn't define Left or right but fascism is, much more often than not, Right wing. It's more to do with what the fascist governments policies are (e.g. racial segregation, militarism, eugenics etc are right wing and would usually define a fascist regime with these policies as right-wing fascist). Fascism usually refers to Mussolini's right-wing government in Italy and most fascist ideals share 90% (intentional or otherwise) of those ideals - such as the Nazi party etc.
Ahh, another ignorant fool. You don't know what the f--- you are talking about. Fascism is socialism...exactly What Hitler copied his national-socialist platform on...Anyone on the right is considered a conservative. with beliefs in individual rights , freedom and liberty...go back to school.
Note that he does that because he is unable to refute his actual points. As usual, he tries to change the subject rather than counter arguments. Dim people fall for it every time
There's no hell in Judaism. I've learned some things about stories of the ancient Egyptian religion that would make the most sick-minded person vomit. That aside, yeh ancient Egypt had a concept of hell in their religion. Ancient Greece is debatable, some interpret it as hell others don't.
On substance, I actually have to give this round to Buckley, he actually made a good point that you just can't disqualify someone from politics because of a colourful description of his past, and Vidal just kept Doubling down on the same thing
The average American today would watch this and be incapable of understanding what they were talking about. This has nothing to do with Marvel Comics movies, beer or the National Football League. Cue the glazed stare and streams of saliva.
Buckley doing that time old conservative trick of pretending to not know what his enemies mean by focusing on the literal meaning of words instead of the context they are used in.
So people like Vidal still call a nazi to a anyone with whom they disagree. It's a shame Buckley's answer would be considered too politically incorrect now.
@@kentuky1233 also Buckley is coked out of his mind here which has nothing to do with politics, i just think its interesting that cocaine and delusional right wing fantasy are a consistent pair made in paradise.
I believe the debate blind sided Buckley. He had already made it clear that he wouldn’t share the stage with Vidal, whom he genuinely disliked. So when ABC did reach out to Vidal, unbeknownst to Buckley- he was none too happy with the eventual meeting. According to Vidal’s assistant- Mr Vidal was all too elated and began serious research for his confrontation with Buckley. The only time he ever prepared like that.
@@johninjersey It does not matter who Buckley is in conversation with, he can't help the smiling, snide aside. He more interested in attacking the other person than arguing the merits of the or lack thereof, of the opposing position. That said, Hitch was guilty of this too, he wasn't above a supposed intellectual dig at his opponent. I think that it cheapens the discourse. If only TV debates these days displayed this level of thought and consideration rather than ideological talking points delivered by crackpots.
@@HDB1974 Did you even watch this debate? Do you know who's who? I swear it's like half of the comments here have no idea which person is slinging the ad-hominems like "crypto-Nazi" (hint: it's not Buckley).
I have always wondered where Buckley got his accent. It wasn't a British accent but he seems like more of an imperious queen than Bette Davis playing Elizabeth the First. He was anti-gay, but he had a consistently queenly demeanor. He had the bitchiest, most arrogant voice in the Western Hemisphere. His syllables were hard and shining lapidary things, ready to strike your eye like a rock. I really hated him. I was totally on Gory Gore's side.
It's called a mid-Atlantic accent. It was a deliberately acquired accent that intellectuals and upper-crust types used to cultivate. Personally, I think it was quite pleasant to listen to. Both Buckley and Vidal were good examples of its use. Much better than some of the squawky and braying voices you hear on current affairs shows these days.
It's as if you completely forgot your threat and in what way is it bigoted to assume a religion after you made that glaring reference to hell? Of course your not surprised because you don't know what your talking about
I think Buckley was very American in that content didn't matter. Appearance and manner was his expression, reality and context be damned. Charlatan for the Establishment.
No matter where you fall on the political spectrum, you have to at least admit that this is a beautiful example of how two incredibly well educated, well spoken people can still act like children on national TV.
I fall on the spectrum of being informed by psychology training. They're behaving like adults.
Okay.
Jonathan Duckworth Please do not insult innocent children...only adults are able to engage in the pretense required to be so petty in such a grand event.
Oh god, this tireless tirade everywhere on every one of these Vidal vs Buckley videos. Insults and humour are a part of our intellect and the ability to phaze or center an argument on the character of someone else (i.e. character assassinations) can be marvelous to watch and interesting to learn from if it does stand on solid ground.
I much more despise the faux politeness that so easily turns into purely bestial shouting matches on todays American media or in the case of for example my country Swedens just purely hollow discussions that rarely if ever dig even a bit below the surface to the issues that really matter.
In Sweden there was barely one article or TV show that debated or analyzed the Libyan war for example in anything other than in "It's bad to kill people and drop bombs but also dictators are bad so maybe we should do that" type of way.
Jonathan Duckworth ...Totally disagree... We need more of it...these two were great.
It's like watching two children fight but with a lot more complex language.
Battle of the Trans-Atlantic accents
Id like to have dropped ol Bucky off about Mid-Atlantic!😝
Buckley: "I'm almost through."
Vidal: "In every sense."
LOL
You neglected to include what Vidal said right before "in every sense": He said, "No you're n[ot]."
@@tamething1 And?
Any who haven't watched the doc on these two ( The Best Of Enemies) needs to do so. It's awesome
William F Buckleys " Firing Line " forced me to think at an early age. Although I didn't understand all the words, thats a good thing. John F Kennedy or Martin Luther King Jr used words that I didn't know, but they made you think. Murrow, Cronkite, Huntley and Brinkley used words that made you think. So in watching TV, it was possible a young person just might learn something. My regret to a President George W Bush was that his speeches were dummied down as if we were all 6 years old, or he was
All presidents talk like that now. It’s a trend that has continued for years. By speaking at an elementary level they can reach most audiences.
My, my, how badly this comment aged! I’m responding to this comment ten years after it was posted. In that time, Donald Trump has been a US President and he made George W. Bush look like Aristotle.
If you believe you learned to think from “firing line” then your definition of “thinking” is specious. To purport a rather pedantic rhetorical postulate on the stasis of definition-what you think is thinking is provocative pablum. In other words, “you still dumb”
Georges speeches were dumbed-down to the point where even he could almost grasp them
-Buckley "I'm almost through..."
-Vidal "In every sense!"
How wrong he was haha
You neglected to include what Vidal said right before saying "In every sense," which was: "No you're n[ot]." It's like he just reached into his bag of random lame insults and grabbed two by mistake.
@@tamething1ah yes, the thing he said right before (but didnt actually because he stopped before he finished saying it), indeed.
How much dumber debate TV looks today.
The quality of both the candidates and the press has diminished. And the viewers are asking "boxers or briefs", instead of how will you champion liberty and promote economic growth.
@thingfish000
They're also coming to blows over arguments akin to "boxers or briefs", on top of that.
I'll take 2 smug intellectuals wittily trading ridiculous barbs over any episode of The View, or ANY political talk show on ANY channel anywhere on the political spectrum. People scream and shout now over the mildest things.
🤼♀️
Buckley has the smuggest demeanour of anyone I've ever seen.
You should see him debate james baldwin. Bad form. Here tho, hes up against someone who was much more arrogant and smug. I feel its an apt in this setting.
He’s smart af tho
@@ryanjeanes5253 always, about everything he says, huh?
@@mackhomie6 no, certainly not
@@ryanjeanes5253 k, cause he always acts like a massive douche, so that can't be the reason.
What wonderful, intelligent, witty men they both are.
What Trump vs Biden would've sounded like on the presidential debate if they actually spoke with some intelligence 😂
"I'm almost through - "
"No you're n - *quip occurs* - In every sense!"
No one has commented upon the grace and dignity of Howard K. Smith. What a gentleman. His type is apparently gone forever from our culture to be replaced by the likes of Don Lemon and Chris Matthews.
or far far worse, the likes of Tucker Carlson and Jeanine Pirro
SC98 Tucker is the antithesis of intellectuality.
I could listen to Buckley talk for hours.. not because I like his ideas, I just like the way he talks
He's asinine
He sounds like a pseudointellectual villain in a cartoon.
@@waffleocalypse He's the absolute scariest depiction of a bigot in America because he pushes the exact same ideas of the typical white conservative, but packages them in a manner that gives the ideas some semblance of intellectual validity. Luckily, the right wing has gotten so much dumber in the last 1/2 century, the Buckley types can never actually get elected.
I like his voice and ideas
Loss for you. Buckley is already brilliant. Place next to a self-destructive deluded character like Vidal he’s incredible.
The documentary 'Best of Enemies' about this series of debates is an excellent watch.
I did watch them, and I agree.
Buckley is far better to read than to hear. He's a smart man, but one has to sit through an interminable amount of blather to get his point.
@crabbieappleton
Kind of like when hearing me try to tell a funny story of what happened during a shopping trip. I can actually go back and edit after writing, insert things, delete things, check for spelling and missing words, and not get distracted -mid sentence- mid *word* and start trying to add important context to something I mentioned 5 minutes ago in the story, and also, there's times where I- oh! Look! Someone brought their dog here! I love German Shepherds!
Yeah, my mind is constantly in Edit mode due to being a creative mind with ADD, so I understand tremendously what you mean. 😂
The Battle for Perfect Diction! Today, they'd both be ridiculed as "elitist" and "out of touch".
Vidal never shunned a dick!
By idiots
The mid Atlantic accent makes insults sound so much nicer. Where'd it go
Personally I love both these guys...and they both score points.....wish I could have met either of them....
Well there was nothing here of any debate value. Maybe think about what you are actually admiring here...
@@robertchflynn maybe explain who you're trashing and don't judge someone's entire personality off a minute video on TH-cam
@@landscape85you didn’t comprehend either comments
He has such British mannerisms
I have used Metrazol Electricity and can tell you from experience that nothing compares to reading by candlelight
Interesting, as was Buckley vs Woody Allen. Buckley's problem is his smugness stop him from seeing how bogged down his own rhetoric is.
For posterity, Buckley won that debate. Woody Allen was later revealed as a crypto, incestous pedophile.
I'm surprised anyone is calling that Buckley-Allen video a debate. It seemed like a very relaxed political discussion between two people with totally different perspectives. But at no point did they argue an issue in depth.
The problem may be perception of smug due to his vernacular, Gore exhibits similar tone principally albeit different in annunciation as Buckley. See Hitchens take on their similarity in 'Best of enemies'.
Matter of fact: th-cam.com/video/T1gEfl6WDTk/w-d-xo.html
How was Buckley even remotely capable, of having a bowel movement?
It is an ad-hom but funny nonetheless.
He won this exchange, so I'm not sure what you mean here. Buckley is the guy on the left in the white suit.
How much brain rot did this take for you to spew out?
Mr Vidal would have been better off not being involved in this "debate" as it clearly appeared Buckley just wanted to hear the sound of his own voice drone on and bloviate ad nauseum.
The cameras really should have been replaced by mirrors.
+Tony K. -- So very very true, & the right wing pundits haven't changed one iota to this very day.
"And you certainly must, Bill, maintain your reputation as being the Marie Antoinette of the right-wing and continually imposing your bloodthirsty neurosis", says Vidal. Ah-ah, Maria Antoinette was a... queen!
Oh, after the interviews Gore went on a rampage claiming that Buckley was gay.
And that was a 3 year long shitshow in court.
Buckley is really Stewie Griffin 😂
@@shelbyherring92 No, during the debates Buckley called Vidal gay. It was a scandal but no lawsuit. A few years later Vidal wrote in Esquire magazine about an incident concerning Buckley and his siblings in the early 1940s. It had to do with vandalizing the home of some neighbors and targeting them for their religion. That is what caused Buckley to sue Vidal and Esquire magazine. Buckley lost.
@@BoBo-ti6jh Buckley didn't loose. Vidal counter-sued Buckley for claiming that one of Vidal's novels was pornographic. Vidal's counter suit was thrown out. Buckley accepted a settlement of $115,000 and an editorial apology, so I would say he won.
@@aaronmueller5802 You are mistaken. Your information is wrong. Research and you will find that Buckley won nothing. Vidal lost nothing, hence he won. What is certain is that Buckley humiliated himself on national TV.
Buckley does this funny thing where he flares his eyes to make a point. I found it odd the first time I saw it and thought it was a tic of some kind. I think he might actually have been so strategic that he would use it to subconsciously fuck with people. Especially a massive queen like Gore Vidal. I'd give good money to know what was going through Vidal's mind.
Vitriol vs buckling.
I don't like either of them, but this kind of erudite wit is sadly lacking in contemporary American politics.
Quite true.
@@Independent5159 "Exceeded them both in the semantics and lexicon of the language and intellectual...." Really? Your babble sounds very much like theirs did back then. Congratulations.
You mean saying nothing while sounding smart. Ya. Agreed
@@thursdayaf22 non he's saying that you're too stupid to understand.
@@IndianArma you misspelled no
Yes...I do agree...it's quite strange to run into people one knew in high school, for instance, who recognise me but I haven't a clue who he or she is until I am verbally reminded; 'tis always such an awkward moment to have to lie and enthusiastically say "Hey, you look *GREAT*!"
The transatlantic accent can make anything entertaining
May you decompose in the earth peacefully.
wheres the rest?
We need these larger than life personalities today instead of the boring talking heads hum drum cookie cutter commentators (news readers) of today. No comparison. Back then they were all unique, so intellectual, and look at the manners of Mr. Buckley ..He would smile as he placed the verbal sword in, lots of times to Vidal, then smile and come out with a clever bon mot as he did it. He had a deliciously dry wit. Gore was every bit his polar opposite politically, and very, very bitchy and funny, but when they got together, the show was on and it was always pure enjoyment. Start the show and get the popcorn!
+Beth Virginia Phillips There was a pretty heated exchange between Bill O'Reilly and George Will a month or two ago on Bill's show - and not all with good manners! But it was entertaining.
+Beth Virginia Phillips - Tim Russert may have been the last good one. R.I.P.
@@mobrules29 We all love a good cat fight!
@@Ducksoup67 I would tend to agree with you.
It's cavalier voyeurs like yourself who are responsible for the degradation of discourse in this country. Why don't you go watch a Marvel movie instead?
"...Bill, your reputation as the Marie Antoinette of the right wing..."
Ha ha!
Considering what the French revolutionaries said about Marie Antoinette was propaganda and lies during and after the dreadful French Revolution, that fits. Just not in the way that idiotic and mediocre writer intended.
Buckley points out Vidal used irrelevant descriptives as a way of saying 'Reagan Bad' & Vidal responded with more of the same.
really? you felt like it was vidal speaking irrelevance? after that?
I get so easily tired of people who talk a certain way because they think it makes them look smart..
That's the way people from Harvard talked back in the day. with perfect English...
@@mikelovetere4719 nah its trans-atlantic accent. Americanos use it to sound smarter
A summary for all of you too lazy to look up the references:
Buckley: "Stop picking on Reagan! You keep saying he was in juvenile films, and that's unfair. Also his acting ability has nothing to do with whether or not he should be President. That would be like me saying you can't talk about political stuff because you write perverted plays!"
[Vidal tries to respond to the insult but Buckley won't let him talk]
Buckley continues: "I mean we might as well get some perverted playwright in here to talk about politics. Come on! Sorry, you're just jaded because he didn't act in YOUR movies!"
Vidal: "Well Buckley's not winning any points in the nice department but notice how he won't talk about Reagan's record. He wants to just do a comedy show. He says he's on the right, but oddly he's always in the wrong. And you're kind of a pansy, really, you had everything handed to you like Marie Antoinette and now you parade around like you deserve your position. So hold your mental problems back a bit, and let's talk about the campaign itself, shall we?
Get help
@@phukyu9016 Being smart is not a curse, son.
@@ryanjeanes5253 smart people don't tell you they are smart or feel the need to.
@@phukyu9016 That is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read. Also, begin your sentences with a capital letter.
@@BoBo-ti6jh what is it about what I said do you find dumb though? seems to be conventional wisdom, maybe you are the one who is dumb juan. don't forget sweetie, my ancestors built Europe, yours couldn't come up with the wheel 😬
I'm sorry, I don't have the same nostalgia for these types of exchanges that many do here. There was no substance in that exchange, only petty sniping and personal attacks with the occasionally snide comeback.
Ramon Suarez The sad part is that they actually contain more facts than our modern day political debates, which are pretty much conservatives and liberals arguing over their interpretations over the same press releases.
This is only a glimpse, when they don't digress from the point they are very stimulating to say the least!
juan curiel I'd agree but the problem is that they rarely digress. Vidal made a great point by the end of their "debate" he should have focuse on instead of trading barbs with Buckley.
+Ramon Suarez I agree. I think Buckley would have been willing to discuss the issues and the GOP and the convention but Vidal was just so full of hate he just wanted to vilify Buckley and attack him.
+Ramon Suarez It seems to me that this series of encounters was unprecedented, and in fact represents a turning point: Prior to this, commentators generally took turns; whereas from here on in, it fairly quickly degenerated towards what we have today, which is about as worthwhile and illuminating - and popular with roughly the same constituency - as, say, pro wrestling or NASCAR.
Buckley & Vidal were “matter and anti-matter”. Effectively polar opposite equals that neither one could defeat outright in war only in battles. Vidal might have had the last word because he died after Buckley died, Buckley had effectively completely ignored or ‘un-personed’ Vidal from his life after the lawsuit.
Buckley was one of the most significant political figures in American history so yes , they were opposites.
_IN THIS CORNER, at 5-foot-11, from Washington, D.C., GORE VIDAL!_
_IN THIS CORNER, at 6 foot 1, from New York City, WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY!_
All right, come out at the bell, and let's a have a clean fight!
"On the right, but most certianly in the wrong." Nothing much changes! 😂
interesting that you edited the video....
Buckley lost cred when he stooped to attacking Vidal's person by saying he wasn't qualified to comment because he was a "producer of perverted prose". 😮
Buckley had a dizzying propensity of talking and talking and saying nothing. The poster boy of the Reactionary Right, he loved to hear himself speak above all others. If Gore Vidal ran for president, I'd have voted for him. Read his, "Blood For Oil," if you'd like to hear the unvarnished truth about our actual involvement in Iraq.
Geez, these two need to get a room
And you in the middle of both getting spit roasted?
@@RandalfElVikingo mmmmmphf 😵💫
Do you happen to have the clip where Vidal calls Buckley a "Crypto-Nazi" and Buckley threatens to "sock him in the goddamn face"? There's a video of it on TH-cam already, but I'd like it in color and higher quality.
when left wing progressives have no argument, they resort to calling people Nazis, fascists and other names...
People talk about these guys as "intellectuals" but they seem pretty dull to me. The take turns calling each other names, albeit names you might need to look up. YET, they don't offer examples, such as calling Buckley "the Marie Antoinette of the Republican party". Where is the examples? There doesn't need to be--just stuffed shirts name calling. Brilliant? I don't think so.
Both were brilliant men, the likes of which we sadly don't see anymore; but they were not at their best because they didn't like each other...at all.
Nothing like a couple of arrogant pseudo intellectuals. Norman Mailer ranks right up there as well.
Buckley was an intellectual...Vidal was a progressive pseudo-intellectual...
Watching this is like seeing a Shakespearian play compared to what we have today. 😂
Not so much in this footage but I find it odd that Buckley in some debates often appears to be leaning back or sat an angle. A nervous tic or a device to put his adversary off guard?
Leaning back exudes confidence, leaning forward is aggressive and shows insecurity.
I’m left of center but definitely Team Buckley. Vidal was loathsome
oh Pdou66 if Vidal is in hell, I'm sure you'll see him eventually with so much hate in your heart.
This video, this debate between these two men, I don't care about the politics.
I'm here for the _theatrics._
Gems from both parties here include:
· "that adjective didn't contribute anything... _extraordinary_ to the human understanding."
· "Mr. Vidal sends _all_ of his books to Hollywood, many of which are rejected-"
· "I'm almost through-" "No, you're not." ("In every sense" ??)
· "I think that the people of California have the right, when they speak overwhelming, to project somebody into national politics, even if he _did_ commit the sin of having acted in movies that were not written by Mr. Vidal."
· "He always to the _right,_ and I think almost always in the _wrong."_
Also I forgot
"the Marie Antoinette of the right wing, and continually posting your bloodthirsty neuroses onto the political campaign"
Their sexuality aside, Buckley was well-educated but pseudo-intellectual at best. You can see it in his "debate" or interview with Noam Chomsky, a true intellectual who took Buckley to the cleaners. Gore Vidal's charm was that he knew a lot of highly-profile people socially and was a great judge of character and story-teller.
Buckley more than held his own with Chomsky. What were you watching?
Whe dose he call him a crypto nazi
"In every sense"
Gore has the most devilish smile lol
RIP Mr. Vidal
O how I miss gore and Hitchens. I think that they have passed and Donny Bonespurs still walks the earth proves Chris’s premise that god does not exist
It's Christopher
Shut the fuck up boomer, you ruined the country. You don't get an opinion.
Buckley made a point, turning Vidal's snobby putdowns of Reagan back upon him.
Vidal responded by trying to interrupt several times, then by stringing together a bunch of insults.
@@hallerd You mad? He's right. Prove otherwise, infant.
Not even a very conspicuous earpiece could help Buckley here
And how do you distinguish very conspicuous from conspicuous?
Nice claim
I prefer Vidal because he happens to be right, but they are alike in that they are both so impressed with their own theatricality and bon mot wit. So even though imo Vidal wins most exchanges, there is little to distinguish them but their positions. Someone like Chomsky wipes the floor with Buckley in part because he refuses to deviate into rhetoric and just relentlessly pursues the argument itself.
I believe the debate blind sided Buckley. He had already made it clear that he wouldn’t share the stage with Vidal, whom he genuinely disliked. So when ABC did reach out to Vidal, unbeknownst to Buckley- he was none too happy. According to Vidal’s assistant- Mr Vidal was all too elated and began serious research for his confrontation with Buckley. The only time he ever prepared like that.
They may have been matched in articulation and although anyone is entitled to be a political commentator Buckley was actually the leading power broker of the right and Vidal had no influence in politics whatsoever
Buckley more than held his own with Chomsky and even got Chomsky to concede historical points. Watch again.
Vidal being right about anything of substance is truly a hilarious notion you have.
in what respect?
When his back is to the ropes, Buckley follows the conservative playbook... Interrupt and never stop talking so the other person can't be heard.
One of the stupidest things about Buckley is that he always acts like Vidal has no political experience and only ever wrote Mia Breckenridge. Like here its still new but he mentions it in almost every confrontation they have.
I mean first of all its obvious Vidal doesn't give one iota if you only mention Mia Breckenridge that's just free press to him, secondly he also wrote a book praising Julian the Apostate and thirdly why wouldn't you exploit the fact that Vidal had a complicated relationship with the Kennedys who once supported his political aspirations but dropped him rather harshly? , you could have the man speak against his own party if you did that.
I mean Buckley just whines on and on about a book everyone already knows the two men have different opinions about. Yes the man doesn't have the same beliefs as you , who the heck cares after the twentieth time you mention this you whining fool ? People have seen these two have the same conversation again and again for weeks back then , and Buckley just repeats and repeats every time they meet after this.
In the final debate he will make the mistake of drawing a comparisons with fascism and Nazism and he rightfully gets the calm calculated reply of Vidal. I mean this man is a total moron ! What did he expect Vidal to reply with ? He is just digging his own grave the entire time.
its called obfuscation
Tom Bruggeman I agree. Buckley was a bigot who fired cheap insults at everyone he had strong disagreements with. Check out his interviews with Tony Benn in 1980 and the young John Kerry in the early 1970s. I don’t see him remotely as a great thinker, and watching Chomsky destroy him is a thing of beauty.
Any British accent makes a debate seem intelligent. Also, Buckley was pro-marijuana
Neither are British so don't what the hell you're talking about
You don't have to be British to have an accent.
Anguilla2001 Very true, but oddly enough you do have to be British to have a British accent.
It’s not British, it’s “Mid-Atlantic” or “transatlantic accent”, which was pretty much a made-up “posh” accent created with the intention of blending together the "standard" speech of both American English and British Received Pronunciation (thus it sounds more British than standard American). It was thought mostly to the upper classes in private schools in the north east US and in acting schools; as such it became the standard in films and radio (that’s why it’s also known today as “old Hollywood accent”)... one can think of it as the first half of the 20th century’s American version of “BBC English”. Both Buckley and Vidal were, and still are, known as good examples of transatlantic speakers, others being the Roosevelts, Jackie O, or Katherine Hepburn. That’s why movies or recordings from TV, radio or politicians speaking back in the 40s sound so characteristic and “weird” to us today. It sounds old fashioned, and certainly has some elements of British pronunciation, but it’s definitely not British.
Buckley was a pro constitution libertarian....
really "fascism" doesn't define Left or right but fascism is, much more often than not, Right wing. It's more to do with what the fascist governments policies are (e.g. racial segregation, militarism, eugenics etc are right wing and would usually define a fascist regime with these policies as right-wing fascist). Fascism usually refers to Mussolini's right-wing government in Italy and most fascist ideals share 90% (intentional or otherwise) of those ideals - such as the Nazi party etc.
Ahh, another ignorant fool. You don't know what the f--- you are talking about. Fascism is socialism...exactly What Hitler copied his national-socialist platform on...Anyone on the right is considered a conservative. with beliefs in individual rights , freedom and liberty...go back to school.
*"he's always to the right, I think, and almost always in the wrong"* ... *check and mate!* ♟️
Two sleezes being sleezy.
Gore is MY MAN!
The way Buckley tears apart Vidal's quote about Reagan is magical
Agreed!
Note that he does that because he is unable to refute his actual points. As usual, he tries to change the subject rather than counter arguments. Dim people fall for it every time
And if you didn't know which one was gay and told one of them was...
Where can read the rest of your PhD? lol.
Gore Vidal Pizzagate
There's no hell in Judaism. I've learned some things about stories of the ancient Egyptian religion that would make the most sick-minded person vomit. That aside, yeh ancient Egypt had a concept of hell in their religion. Ancient Greece is debatable, some interpret it as hell others don't.
Gore Vidal's responses are nothing but personal insults. He was insufferable.
You obviously don’t understand English.
@@BoBo-ti6jh You obviously have the political understanding of a house plant. Infatile comment.
On substance, I actually have to give this round to Buckley, he actually made a good point that you just can't disqualify someone from politics because of a colourful description of his past, and Vidal just kept Doubling down on the same thing
The average American today would watch this and be incapable of understanding what they were talking about. This has nothing to do with Marvel Comics movies, beer or the National Football League. Cue the glazed stare and streams of saliva.
Buckley invented vocal fry
Buckley doing that time old conservative trick of pretending to not know what his enemies mean by focusing on the literal meaning of words instead of the context they are used in.
-Got to love Bill Buckley.
So people like Vidal still call a nazi to a anyone with whom they disagree. It's a shame Buckley's answer would be considered too politically incorrect now.
Maybe Vidal was right.
@@icedancer2370 literally Hitler.
@@kentuky1233 your words
@@kentuky1233 also Buckley is coked out of his mind here which has nothing to do with politics, i just think its interesting that cocaine and delusional right wing fantasy are a consistent pair made in paradise.
@@icedancer2370 Just making shit up for fun now huh?
I believe the debate blind sided Buckley. He had already made it clear that he wouldn’t share the stage with Vidal, whom he genuinely disliked. So when ABC did reach out to Vidal, unbeknownst to Buckley- he was none too happy with the eventual meeting. According to Vidal’s assistant- Mr Vidal was all too elated and began serious research for his confrontation with Buckley. The only time he ever prepared like that.
And yet Buckley won their debate series.
I don't think there is a hell in Judaism.
touche lol
Buckley's voice gives me a headache.
Buckley's pompousity (yep, you know what I mean) reminds me of Piers Morgan.
Same old bill. Far too interested in making snide comments then actually saying of interest.
Bill was responding to the litany of snide comments offered up by Vidal
@@johninjersey It does not matter who Buckley is in conversation with, he can't help the smiling, snide aside. He more interested in attacking the other person than arguing the merits of the or lack thereof, of the opposing position.
That said, Hitch was guilty of this too, he wasn't above a supposed intellectual dig at his opponent. I think that it cheapens the discourse. If only TV debates these days displayed this level of thought and consideration rather than ideological talking points delivered by crackpots.
@@HDB1974 Did you even watch this debate? Do you know who's who? I swear it's like half of the comments here have no idea which person is slinging the ad-hominems like "crypto-Nazi" (hint: it's not Buckley).
Vidal who???
Your mom.
Neurosis
Buckley edges the smug poseur contest
I have always wondered where Buckley got his accent.
It wasn't a British accent but he seems like more of an imperious queen than Bette Davis playing Elizabeth the First.
He was anti-gay, but he had a consistently queenly demeanor. He had the bitchiest, most arrogant voice in the Western Hemisphere. His syllables were hard and shining lapidary things, ready to strike your eye like a rock.
I really hated him. I was totally on Gory Gore's side.
It's called a mid-Atlantic accent. It was a deliberately acquired accent that intellectuals and upper-crust types used to cultivate. Personally, I think it was quite pleasant to listen to. Both Buckley and Vidal were good examples of its use. Much better than some of the squawky and braying voices you hear on current affairs shows these days.
Hell only exists in Christianity.
I loved the way they talked back in the day. Love Gore Vidal but William F Buckley not so much.
"yall godamm komanists all likeee rude n stuff ... grrr"
grow up.
“The Marie Antoinette of the right.” Priceless.
It's as if you completely forgot your threat and in what way is it bigoted to assume a religion after you made that glaring reference to hell? Of course your not surprised because you don't know what your talking about
A conservative from Harvard and a progressive ..interesting..
Buckley was a Yale man - sons of the Southern elite went there.
@@thomashahn631 Thanks for the correction....
Buckley was born in NYC not the South
I think Buckley was very American in that content didn't matter. Appearance and manner was his expression, reality and context be damned. Charlatan for the Establishment.
Delusional comment. "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell them the truth."
Oh that's who he is.
Thank you. I'd heard the name but never watched him.
It's lie proto-O'Reilly
Why do they speak with English accents?
That’s the transatlantic accent, it’s between British and American and was normal at the time.