At any rate, our political discourse has descended precipitously from this. The contemporary right has no spokesman of Buckley's caliber. The left has none of Vidal's.
I really don't think that Vidal was so much of a "liberal Democrat" so much as he was a libertarian. I think Christopher Hitchens had a good summary of both Buckley and Vidal.
@dinojay8410 He was not a libertarian. He talked about poverty frequently and supported a lot of public welfare programs. Libertarians are against such programs.
@samuelrosen1593 you're assuming all Libertarians take an extremely hard line stance. I'm a Libertarian and I'm totally in favor of Social Services like welfare and food stamps and housing assistance as long as they're done in a way that respects the freedom and dignity of the people they are helping. The problem is the libertarian party has focused on dumb stuff and not the big issues like ending the drug war.
Too bad that pundit discourse has evolved into what we have today; something that's intended for, at best, a high school educated audience and at worst those who never made it that far. But on the other hand maybe that's the demographics of TV viewers? It often appears that if she's blonde and showing as much skin as possible she'll turn into a CNN/FOX news expert and to hell with it if there's any gray matter between the ears...
I had searched for Smith's very initial plaudit which I paraphrase, "Welcome audience - tonite we have two gentlemen who are well versed and know how the use the English language most adroitly" Something to that effect. The Convention was going on in another arena but ABC was counter programming.
Ah, exhibit, two well born, intelligent, and eloquent men of opposing views artfully throwing darts(knives?) at each other. Very entertaining. And a style that is sadly missing in today's Trumped-era.
Fifty years later, &, we r still at odds! Gee, I wonder y?! We all think differently, sometimes; rarely, alike. But, the GOOD news, I know, in the future, we'll all think alike. 😁y? UNDERSTANDING.
You know, if u weren't downtown or by the convention center chicago was as normal as a summers day. It was not an "armed camp" just 4-5 neighborhoods. Everyone from press, to protesters, to police grossly overreacted
@@professormichaellemaire8801 lol well said, though TH-cam comment section isn't a place for proper grammar. Compared to modern commentators particular on the right WFB is a rocket scientist.
Mr. Buckley always was well prepared in terms of his command of knowledge relevant to the discussion, and he was fluent in the use of debating tactics. The more I watch these debates between him and Mr Vidal, hiwever, the more Mr. Vidal endears himself to me and seems to have defeated Mr. Buckley.
Are you kidding me? Wilson WW1, Roosevelt WW2, Truman Korean War , and JFK started hostilities in Vietnam. I’ve read some pea brain comments before but....
Apparently you've never read a basic history book. The Democrats got the US into the War of 1812 by declaring war on Britain. Then they took the US into Mexico. Then they attempted secession, attack Ft Sumter launching the American Civil War. Then they get full responsibility for America's entrance into WWI. They were at the helm for WWII. Truman took us to Korea. He also recognized Israel helping to start a war in the Middle East that we paid for in spades. Kennedy got us in and Johnson pretty much faked a reason to fight in Vietnam, and Syria. The Republicans were responsible for the Indian Wars, took us into the Spanish American War, The Gulf War, Afghanistan, and Iraq. For fuck sake use Google before you post rubbish.
Vidal was a visionary, we did become an Empire and rather than the policemen of the world we became the mercenaries for the most despicable dictators. Our economic superiority was a myth.
The debate here is excellent. "Best of Enemies" is mostly a waste of time. There is hardly any of the debate in the movie! "Best of Enemies" succeeds in doing exactly what it purports to condemn -- bringing political discourse down to the level of entertainment and personal attacks.
Both men sound pretentious and aristocratic, especially Buckley whose delivery is outright pompous the way he ends his sentences. Praps educated people talked that way - way back then.
Vidal doesn't sound in the least bit pretentious to me. Though in a debate where the two figures absolutely despise each other, condescension is just one of the many feelings to be expected. Buckley, who didn't learn English until later in life probably developed the patrician affect trying to fit in and it just stuck.
Two titans, indeed. Both brilliant and eloquent. But Buckley is very much Vidal's superior in logical debate. Time and again Buckley bests Vidal in that regard. Yet Vidal kept his cool and counterpunched effectively, although with rhetorical flourishes as opposed to logic.
Listening to debates like this one during the 1960s gives me a gentle reminder that back then, we argued about things that were tangible, such as the war, poverty, and communism. Today, the left finds themselves arguing about the big boogeyman no one can see - the non-tangibles like the environment, equality, equity, and social identity. The conservatives continue to debate the tangibles like they did during the 1960s and before but find themselves today in a situation where the opposition just doesn't know how to argue the issues. And this is why we fight instead of coming up with the right direction to head this country and the civil society - one can't even start the argument because the left will attempt to destroy you beforehand.
9:28... "insouciance"? Well, I don't really care what that word means. These nagging, nit-pickers of negativism are irritating to the ear. They both look and sound as if they're exuding flatulence as they speak... which effects a nasally, effeminate affectation to their debate. If only contemporary POTUS candidates were as entertaining...
![ผัวเถื่อน - ยูริ โตเกียวมิวสิค [ OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P08ORRVDGl8/mqdefault.jpg)
The idea that people were calling the end of the Cold War in the mid-60s is hilarious
I saw Best Of Enemies and it was a beyond great! The audience was primarily elderly, but everybody was Intune. I give it five stars.
Fascinating. These guys really hated each other and you can feel the tension. I very much want to see "Best of Enemies."
Saw it, it's pretty awesome !!
It is available on Netflix
It is worth seeing. Their hatred for each other went on for years.
At any rate, our political discourse has descended precipitously from this. The contemporary right has no spokesman of Buckley's caliber. The left has none of Vidal's.
I really don't think that Vidal was so much of a "liberal Democrat" so much as he was a libertarian. I think Christopher Hitchens had a good summary of both Buckley and Vidal.
@dinojay8410 He was not a libertarian. He talked about poverty frequently and supported a lot of public welfare programs. Libertarians are against such programs.
@samuelrosen1593 you're assuming all Libertarians take an extremely hard line stance. I'm a Libertarian and I'm totally in favor of Social Services like welfare and food stamps and housing assistance as long as they're done in a way that respects the freedom and dignity of the people they are helping.
The problem is the libertarian party has focused on dumb stuff and not the big issues like ending the drug war.
Too bad that pundit discourse has evolved into what we have today; something that's intended for, at best, a high school educated audience and at worst those who never made it that far. But on the other hand maybe that's the demographics of TV viewers? It often appears that if she's blonde and showing as much skin as possible she'll turn into a CNN/FOX news expert and to hell with it if there's any gray matter between the ears...
I had searched for Smith's very initial plaudit which I paraphrase, "Welcome audience - tonite we have two gentlemen who are well versed and know how the use the English language most adroitly"
Something to that effect. The Convention was going on in another arena but ABC was counter programming.
Ah, exhibit, two well born, intelligent, and eloquent men of opposing views artfully throwing darts(knives?) at each other.
Very entertaining. And a style that is sadly missing in today's Trumped-era.
more coming
It's obvious that Buckley had never had an opponent of Vidal's capacity. Buckley is ruffled and Vidal maintains a level head.
This was actually a very personal debate. The politics was just window dressing.
I read your remark on July 13, 2022
Been looking for this one for a long time.Many thanks.Isn't it incredible how far we have fallen since these two titans locked horns?
They talk so pretty.
Tagging it with "mellifluouity"- vintage Buckley
Wow this is awesome to watch.
Damnnn mono sound...
Vidal was right about Empire
Fifty years later, &, we r still at odds! Gee, I wonder y?! We all think differently, sometimes; rarely, alike. But, the GOOD news, I know, in the future, we'll all think alike. 😁y? UNDERSTANDING.
I look forward to understanding, Jonathan Gagne. :)
You know, if u weren't downtown or by the convention center chicago was as normal as a summers day. It was not an "armed camp" just 4-5 neighborhoods. Everyone from press, to protesters, to police grossly overreacted
Amen; as WFB instructed us; I shall say your adverb, grossly, falls far short of the nuance necessary to emblazen the verb, over reacted.
@@professormichaellemaire8801 lol well said, though TH-cam comment section isn't a place for proper grammar. Compared to modern commentators particular on the right WFB is a rocket scientist.
Particularly was the word you were looking for .
Buckley reminds me of that kid at school who corrects the teacher.
GREAT
Mr. Buckley always was well prepared in terms of his command of knowledge relevant to the discussion, and he was fluent in the use of debating tactics. The more I watch these debates between him and Mr Vidal, hiwever, the more Mr. Vidal endears himself to me and seems to have defeated Mr. Buckley.
8:03 "Have you noticed and major wars while a Republican was in office?"
Are you kidding me? Wilson WW1, Roosevelt WW2, Truman Korean War , and JFK started hostilities in Vietnam. I’ve read some pea brain comments before but....
Apparently you've never read a basic history book.
The Democrats got the US into the War of 1812 by declaring war on Britain.
Then they took the US into Mexico.
Then they attempted secession, attack Ft Sumter launching the American Civil War.
Then they get full responsibility for America's entrance into WWI.
They were at the helm for WWII.
Truman took us to Korea. He also recognized Israel helping to start a war in the Middle East that we paid for in spades.
Kennedy got us in and Johnson pretty much faked a reason to fight in Vietnam, and Syria.
The Republicans were responsible for the Indian Wars, took us into the Spanish American War, The Gulf War, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
For fuck sake use Google before you post rubbish.
MAC VENA THANK YOU! I was going to type all that up as soon as I saw that comment! Thank you for saving me an hour of typing and fact-checking!
@@macvenayou would make more sense if you stick to the time frame of this debate. Most of what you name happened after this debate.
Why didn't you upload in 1080p? j/k :-P Thanks for posting!
Vidal was a visionary, we did become an Empire and rather than the policemen of the world we became the mercenaries for the most despicable dictators. Our economic superiority was a myth.
The debate here is excellent. "Best of Enemies" is mostly a waste of time. There is hardly any of the debate in the movie! "Best of Enemies" succeeds in doing exactly what it purports to condemn -- bringing political discourse down to the level of entertainment and personal attacks.
Well said
Both men sound pretentious and aristocratic, especially Buckley whose delivery is outright pompous the way he ends his sentences. Praps educated people talked that way - way back then.
The vulgar crowd always is taken by appearances…
Vidal doesn't sound in the least bit pretentious to me. Though in a debate where the two figures absolutely despise each other, condescension is just one of the many feelings to be expected.
Buckley, who didn't learn English until later in life probably developed the patrician affect trying to fit in and it just stuck.
Vidal ruined him. And I'm no liberal.
Captain Sunday ever see his debate with Noam Chomsky? Ugh. He was destroyed
You’ll have to give a specific moment when that occurred please
The name Chomsky certainly doesn’t belong alongside Vidal’s and Buckley’s, so please refrain
Two titans, indeed. Both brilliant and eloquent. But Buckley is very much Vidal's superior in logical debate. Time and again Buckley bests Vidal in that regard. Yet Vidal kept his cool and counterpunched effectively, although with rhetorical flourishes as opposed to logic.
Vidal won. That's all.
Listening to debates like this one during the 1960s gives me a gentle reminder that back then, we argued about things that were tangible, such as the war, poverty, and communism. Today, the left finds themselves arguing about the big boogeyman no one can see - the non-tangibles like the environment, equality, equity, and social identity. The conservatives continue to debate the tangibles like they did during the 1960s and before but find themselves today in a situation where the opposition just doesn't know how to argue the issues. And this is why we fight instead of coming up with the right direction to head this country and the civil society - one can't even start the argument because the left will attempt to destroy you beforehand.
9:28... "insouciance"? Well, I don't really care what that word means. These nagging, nit-pickers of negativism are irritating to the ear. They both look and sound as if they're exuding flatulence as they speak... which effects a nasally, effeminate affectation to their debate. If only contemporary POTUS candidates were as entertaining...
Like a dog hearing a high pitched noise~