The feeling that I had was that Willem didn't hit a dead end…he voluntarily stopped, as he was one of the few people to properly appreciate how dangerous poking around in the Great Ones' business was.
Oliver Benitez Rom holds secrets about Mensis, secrets that way more dangerous fools already know, and some that they’d want to find out. by killing her, Willem basically “tells you” about Yahar’Gul and Mensis, so you have enough information to stop Micolash. And also destroys the source of knowledge, so no one else can ever make their insight experiments again, like Micolash did.
@@Ithirid Explains why we keep getting identity politics shoved down our throats even after the failure many such themed comic books, TV shows and movies. They're incapable of seeing that they're wrong.
@Joe Johnson dude, youre just being ignorant at this point. Micolash flat out says that Kos ascended Rom. Just because Kos's physical body is dead doesnt mean that Kos itself is dead. My evidence? Rom herself. You literally find Rom's corpse in Ebrietas's arena, yet you fight Rom. Rom is dead already, the Rom we fight is her consciousness; its her actual being. I know what you're thinking, since you've already mentioned it. "Logic dictates otherwise" but does it? This is a game with invisible entities that are possible on the same level as christianity's God (Oedon). This is a game where a man can be turned into a multi-limbed, grotesque horse beast (Ludwig). Logic is 100% irrelevant in this conversation. Hell, during the Orphan of Kos fight, orphan screams and lightning rains down on the arena. The strange thing is, this lightning ALWAYS falls on Kos's corpse. Its almost as if the Orphan is crying out for his mother, and Kos hears his cries for help. Whether or not you believe anything i just said, you CANNOT ignore the fact that Micolash literally tells us that Kos ascended Rom
I sort of get the impression that Laurence didn't forget the adage so much as was resigned to the consequences -- that he knew full well what would happen to him if he continued to meddle, but considered that a risk worth taking in the pursuit of enlightenment. I've said my piece before on this, but it warrants repeating: The problem, I think, is less that they were corrupted and more that they were unprepared for precisely what would happen as a result of their "enlightenment." The old blood didn't just increased their IQ scores. It altered their physical forms, and the ways in which they saw, heard and smelled the world around them in ways their brains did not know how to translate. Like the scientists in the Manhattan project, Laurence and co. knew what they were doing, and to what end it was being done, but did not realize the full scope of their actions until after the damage had been done.
I have never played Bloodborne ( I WISH I COULD DANGIT) so this tiny theory is just what I have come up with from my backseat gaming of Bloodborne! Ebrietes was found deep below Yarhnam (ie. Pthumerian Labyrinth) The Pthumerians lived sometime before humans became the "dominate" life and they went through many of the same problems the characters of Bloodborne went through. The Scurge of the Beast from Great One blood. Madmen from too much insight and so on. The Pthumerians must have died out from the scurge but a few of them (Just like the true ending) were able to ascend to were the other Great Ones are. So what if Ebrietes was a Pthumerian who had reached the final stages of ascension but was "Left behind" You could technically call her a Great One as the Healing Church used her blood just as the Pthumerians used a Great One similar to Ebrietes but of a race before the Pthumerians became the "dominate" life. Willam tried to gain insight and knowledge to ascend to a Great One while others branched off and tried to use the Old Blood from Ebrietes as well as studying the cosmos to ascend. Both ways can work, but not without the other! Willam reached a point were he could "comprehend" the Great Ones with his Insight and Wisdom, but he was not strong enough to face/physically ascend himself. Willam had pretty much hit a roadblock and stopped. Laurence and the Healing Church used the Old Blood to make themselves stronger and tried to study the Great Ones. While they were strong enough to ascend, they lacked the insight and knowledge on how to do so, instead, the power they held within themselves turned them into beasts! Almost all of the Great Ones, (Mostly the unnamed ones) besides Paleblood, where once part of a race similar to the Pthumerians and Humans. A few ascended from their race, while the others died out. Eventually Humans will die out as well and a new "Dominate" life will take their place. They will find a Great One similar to Ebrietes (Prob a player's character that failed to fully ascend after defeating the Moon Presence) and they will be used in the same way. Eventually they will die out and a few of them will have ascended to a Great One as well. Repeat repeat. Your character successfully becomes a Great One by using the power of the Old Blood (Blood Echoes) AND Insight (Insight/Umbilical Cords/Defeating foes like Rom) By the end, our character is able to "understand" the Great Ones AND is strong enough to defeat and physically become one as well! :D Thanks to anyone who reads all of this. I know I did not explain it very well but I hope the point gets across. Please debate your opinion! :)
The Scourge wasn't present until Pthumerians killed their queen and her child, Mergo, at which point Oedon was furious and thus cursed them, and everyone who came into contact with Old Blood with the Scourge.
Hi! I really like your lore videos and how you edited them. One thing that I do have a problem is that Rom is not mindless. Her knowledge and insight after her transofrmation is probably so high that she can no longer communicate with mundane beings like humans. It's like using human language to try to talk to an ant, hence why she is name Vacuous. Synonyms of vacuous are emptied, void and drained. I really do think that Rom does have high intelligence but lacks all the mundane thoughts and feelings of a human being after her transformation, hence drained/vacuous. The vacuous/void part could mean that she is void of human thoughts and feelings. Also, from the true ending we notice that our hunter turns into an INFANT great one. This is probably the same thing with Rom. Notice how she is defenseless and helpless until you take out third of her health then she finally defends herself? I highly think that Rom is still young. Miyazaki from the interview did describe her movements "cute". What type of creature is defenseless, requires the protection of others and lacks thoguht? The answer is a baby. A baby lacks thought, is defenseless and requires protection. You mentioned a note that saids ""The spider hides all manner of rituals, certain to reveal nothing, for true enlightenment need not be shared.". She does know something and it saids "true enlightement need not be shared". This is probably the same thing as Willem, which is why he spread the adage "Fear the Old Blood".
missing Gehrman in all of this. In one of his lines after taking out Rom he'll be outside and say, "Oh, Laurence... Master Willem... Somebody help me... Unshackle me please, anybody... I've had enough of this dream... The night blocks all sight... Oh, somebody, please... " So he's connected in this too.
One more thing, Gehrman actually knew both Laurence and Willem. "Oh Laurence... what's taking you so long? I've grown too old for this, of little use now, I'm afraid." "Oh Laurence, Master Willem... Help me, unshackle me... The Night blocks all sight, somebody, please!! uhhh.... ahhhhh!!"
+MushyBird McMushington (the Mushiest of Birds) yeah I over Vaati and waiting 6 months for a video and it turning out to be a video of a game I don't even care about. Back when he was just having fun his vids were cool but he takes the whole thing so seriously now.
I really dont understand why people say Fungo is so much more thorough. He makes more bloodborne related videos sure, but Vaati describes a lot of these concepts all in one video. Fungo is great for his personality but sometimes that self inserting goes too far into plain misinformation. Vaati does the same thing too of course, I dont have a problem with either. I just dont understand this concept of better than the other, especially when they review the same information but with different interpretations. There are errors in both which makes it all the more reason to watch both lol.
The Choir and Mensis are separate factions, both that originated in the Healing Church but split and began working on their own. Otherwise, why would a member of The Choir try to infiltrate Mensis?
+Limo Maker This is definitely right, there is also a member of the Choir who is dead, imprisoned, and appears to be tortured / experimented on, inside Yahar'Gul (Basically inside the School of Mensis). It seems like they were once allies, working for the Church, but split apart probably as Micolash went crazy and they performed darker experiments and rituals.
I think Fungo meant to say that the choir came after mensis rather than was a part of it, but I was going to comment the same thing as you before I saw it lol
Dark Renewed I managed to trigger the crazy talk somehow, but I didn't even have 20 insight. Must be either random or dependent on some other factor we're not aware of yet. Hm... If only we had more eyes. Perhaps on the inside...
your videos are addictive man! Informative, good-paced, and humorous at the same time. I really think you really deserve more attention from the community than you are right now. Keep up the good work, loremaster !
men bloodborne its a deep game with no happy endings. When you start having fun and entertain yourself with all the beasts and the hoonters then it come eventually the time to search anwsers. When you see all this videos (lore ones) you just want to pass by everyone without harming them and kill bosses for redembtion...not beacause they are evil or bad because you want to free them from this enternal nightmare ...not DREAM
The first ending is the happy one. Your character wakes up in a world where the sun shines down upon Yharnam, revealing the truth, which is that Bloodborne is fiction, and so too are the great ones...
Some really interesting information. I haven't started compiling and piecing the lore together yet, but the amount of detail you have presented is almost overwhelming. You give a massive amount of info. The video could almost be broken up into parts. The amount of work you put into gathering lore, editing the video and presenting it in a interesting manner is inspiring. I hope to put together a lore video of The Choir in the future, but it's a bit of an intimidating process. I'll stick to how to videos for now. Take it easy.
You forgot the altar where ebrietas is, in that altar there is a statue VERY similar to rom, which was a member of the choir who also ascended to a great one because ebrietas shared his knowledge with him (or her, i think it is a him because of the long legs) and he couldnt take it, so he became a VACUOUS spider
At 3:04 you write that Insight=Madness when overcome by he great one's eldritch powers, but rather insight is the knowledge that the hunter has about everything that is inhuman, frenzy is the player going mad when confronted by something he cannot comprehend.
Yup is a mechanic of the game but it is a strong reference to the mythology of Lovecraft about how people went mad because they could not contemplate the absolute truth of the Great Ancients
It would make sense if Amygdalas only appeared in the nightmare, then you could link it to Mensis. Problem is that they also appear in the normal dream.
Your theory of Rom being a student makes sense as I heard from Silvermont that she was the child of a great one, presumably Ebrietas. The Stundent became a surrogate, and took place as Ebrietas's child. And we can see a Rom look alike in the Alter of Despair.
This is great! I really like some of your insights, and perhaps you'll listen to some of mine, since I've been also digging this game's lore for over a month, now. While I do think you are right regarding Laurence, I do think that more needs to be talked about regarding Rom and the Paleblood Moon. There are basically two theories, and I do believe both are very good and hard to refute. 1: This is your theory. The old fragile Willem points the way to the spider, too old to do anything else. The spider dies and the Paleblood Moon rises, as the Moon Presence, one of the most powerful Great Ones, sensed the death of the spider and saw a chance to exert greater power upon the world, causing strange occurences. and 2, and this one I like it because it is pretty crazy: Provost Willem was using Rom. One of the greater themes of Bloodborne THAT VERY SO OFTEN is forgotten is "eyes". The theme of "eyes" is everywhere, from the name of the characters to one of main teachings of Willem, and the very base of it: in order to reach a greater understanding, one must align the eyes with the brain. Now taking Rom's name and design: the "vacuous" spider with a lot of eyes. I do believe that the experiments of Byrgenwerth resulted on Rom becoming a Great One, however (maybe because Rom wasn't touched by a Great One like the Player had been) it resulted in the stilbirth of her brains, hence the vacuous spider, as you pointed it yourself. However, Master Willem still saw use in her, as he could align his brain with her eyes and sap unto its power. As he felt the growing of the Moon Presence, who was beckoned by Gehrman (you should do a lore video on him, I'd love to watch/help), he used Rom's power as a Great One to stop it (but why can you kill Willem and nothing happens? For the same reason why Micolash is dead and yet his nightmare persists). Thus begins the long night, as it is shown by the rotting carcasses and the size of the crows who eat the flesh of fallen beasts. The murder of Vicar Amelia strengthens the Moon Presence, and we are pointed in Rom's direction. Why? Because the Moon Presence is using us to murder Great Ones, primarily Mergo. The resulting Paleblood Moon shows us that which we at first needed insight to see: the amygdalas.
One thing I hate about Bloodborne that is not here (in game) is that you do not get boss souls to get more information on what, or who, they were before. This would make story telling a bit better.
TheArby913 This is not a Dark Souls game it is branched off from Demon Souls a game that never gave boss Souls and had little to go when relating to story.
Jack Thomas Demon's Souls gave out boss souls, and this game is not branched off of Demon's Souls. They said from the very beginning they wanted to do something different and new.
Hey Fungo, it's Mel. I know it's been ages since we last talked, but I'm keepin you and yours in thought. Thanks for doing this video, I actually have to write something based on this for a client. You did an amazing job as always friend
I had no fucking clue that the more insight you had meant the less resistance you had to frenzy. Thank god I figured poison worked wonders against winter lanterns beforehand. And a very fun way of fighting them with the blades of mercy.
I disagree with Rom being a human turned great one. 1) she has the weaknesses of kin (Lightning and thrust), which the moon presence and Orphan don't have . 2) she drops Kin coldblood. 3) As far as we know, Byrgenwerth only had 1 cord. The one from Kos' child. My theory is that she was an attempt at becoming a great one but was ultimately a failure and only became kin.
During the parallels to Catholicism bit, you showed Rowan Williams, now ex-Archbishop of Canterbury and a Protestant of the Church of England, he's not Catholic. :) The more you know! :D Great video. ^_^
The spider isn't hiding the ritual as in not saying how she became a great one, Rom is hiding the Mensis ritual, hence why there is a message in Yahar'gul mentioning the red moon before the red moon appears. It is also why there are Amygdalas all around Yharnam, but unless you have insight they are hidden.
4:36 Few years late but wanted to say that Catholics believe that during Communion the wine *literally* becomes Blood, not figuratively. Its more apt of a metaphor as a result.
I don't know if you know this but the Nightmare Frontier seems to heavily related or be part of Loran as Amygdala drops the Loran chalice and states in the description that Yharnam would have been the next destination for the scourge. Lower Loran chalice also says that there were "medical" procedures in Loran itself
Willem is transforming slowly into Kin, no? Why the mushrooms on him that are found on Ebrietas? Also, Rom hides the rituals of Mensis, hence the descent of the Paleblood Moon when you kill her. I think Willem had some part of that to prevent Mensis from beckoning the Moon a second time, after Gherman and Laurance did it the first time. I think he was the only one to figure out how dangerous the Old Ones unwittingly are before actually transforming himself.
I think at some point Willem succeeded in making contact with the Great Ones (you can see he also suffered slight transformation on the back of his head) and maybe he realized how dangerous this discovery was for humanity so he decided to stop the research and forbid all the knowledge garnered up to that point, but laurence wanted to continue with the research regardless of any risk, hence why he left Willem and funded the Healing Church.
Byrgenwerth was probably founded as a result of the tombs of the gods and the Pthumerian protectors they discovered. Perhaps Willem was a part of this group of adventurers and then theorized on what it all meant. He founded the school and then everything goes from there. Byrgen in German means tomb.
I had not considered willem's place in most of this, since he was mostly silent in the game and not much was apparent and obvious to learn about him. The idea that he became ignorant to these things because he desired a certain outcome (confirmation bias) is interesting. He looked to the cosmos and was a visionary, seeing that the source was there, and understood many aspects about it, but when it came to the physical science of the transmutation or alteration...he didn't want to delve into it. He feared the possibilities that it would bring, and he was right to fear them. I only wonder now about the implications of his own path. What would have happened if everyone had been more patient, and followed Willem's vision more closely? perhaps a more gentle and connected ascendence could have taken place, as opposed to the rushed blood transfusions that led to the horrors of the game. Great video, I would only suggest taking things a little slower. These topics are very interesting, and taking your time to explore them is never a bad thing, even if it's just spectulation. I like to imagine being in the shoes of the characters and sitting by the lake, it reminds me of a song called "sunrise on the blue nowhere" which played in many creepypastas back in the day. It's always had a very ominous feeling to it, and it brings me a strange comfort just like this game does.
I dont think the lecture building is a 'nightmare version' the theatre key says it's 'now adrift in the nightmare but was once..." this implies its the same place that somehow got sucked into the nightmare.
4:32 you are talking about the Catholic church, but the picture is showing the former archbishop of Canterbury from the church of England which is protestant!
What is that thing on his neck? Is it some type of fungus growing? I always thought it was a type of parasite that had attached itself and was somehow connected to the great ones
personally i think Rom was created by Ebrietas. from micolash "As you once did for the vacuous Rom, grant us eyes, grant us eyes. Plant eyes on our brains, to cleanse our beastly idiocy." *some one created Rom* "The grand lake of mud, hidden now, from sight." " *altar of despair* "The cosmos, of course!" " *Ebrietas* and Rom in altar of despair are failure transform.
loseho inwmak He's talking about Kos, or as some say Kosm. It's possible Kosm had some part to play in the creation of Rom, but I don't know how. And in case you don't know, Kos is the Great One heart that was chained up in the nightmare.
***** i like that theory but we found Rom in Byrgenwerth and The Healing Church both lead by two people who seem to get knowledge from Oedon and success in creation of their own Vacuous Spider and what people at Mensis dose is try to mimic them by capture their own Great One but they failed, they Great One didn't strong enough to create another Great Ones only cause people mad and mutation. my only prove is we don't find any clue of Rom in Mensis. this is pure wiki research so i might be wrong. nice video btw.
***** That brain is the Brain Of Mensis aka. School Of Mensis + Mergo brains converted into a rotten Great One. Where did you find evidence that Kosm is the chained brain?
My name is Willem. I came into this video expecting many things, but hearing my own name spoken correctly out loud so many times in one sitting really fucked me up. I'm pretty sure I heard "Willem" (and I cannot stress this next part enough) spoken correctly her more times than every other instance in my life combined and I feel something that I can't describe now.
This might be a theory of mine.. but could be wrong. It's possible that Kos is the parent of Ebritis.. and Ebritis is the parent of Rom. That's what I though when we were introduced to Ebritis as she's staring at a dead spider's body with many eyes.. which would be Rom's true body.. but Rom's spirtual body being in the dream in the lake. When Master Willem triggered the summons of Rom, it trapped Willem in a dream. And I really think Willem pointed the Hunter into the direction of the Lake, to hunt Rom and free him (willem) from the dream. And that Rom triggered the events that allowed the ritual by the school of Mensis to be carried out unnoticed. There was just no way the school of Mensis could have summoned Mergo without Willem summoning Rom. Also.. one more theory... Mergo's Wet Nurse IS Oedon as they both were described as being formless.
+cloudybrain This is the first time I've heard about a comparison between Rom and the spider corpse Ebritis is with. Interesting idea. I have nothing to add to that, but from what I heard, Rom seemed to be against the School of Mensis, who had conducted a terrifying ritual. Rom was said to be the veil hiding the world from what the School was doing. Killing her, kind of did wonders for the School, I think.
Hmm.. I always thought Rom's presence is what the school of Mensis used to hide the rituals so no one knew what they were doing. I think that's one of the reasons the Choir sent spies to infiltrate the school. As a protagonist you're trying to uncover what's going on, and if you and Rom were against the school of Mensis, there would be no reason to kill Rom. Rom's purpose also trapped Willem, as was mentioned in a note found in Oedon's chapel : "The spider of Byrgenwerth hides many rituals, and keeps our lost master from us." Willem wanted to be free from this trap and that's why he pointed to the direction of the lake so he could be freed. Just like how gehrman was stuck in his dream.
The Wet Nurse probably is Viola, Gascoigne's wife. Her body disappears after your kill the wet nurse. Also, the wet nurse's theme is the same music that plays on Gascoigne's music box
I would love to see a blood borne 2 where your character from the first game now a Great One brings a new outsider to Yarnum to help fight the beast again or maybe even have new spots to go to. Blood borne 2 would be great.
The feeling that I had was that Willem didn't hit a dead end…he voluntarily stopped, as he was one of the few people to properly appreciate how dangerous poking around in the Great Ones' business was.
The wise know when to stop, the fool ever pushes on.
So then he points to Rom so you can fuck him up?
@@oliverbenitez9269 Her*
Oliver Benitez
Rom holds secrets about Mensis, secrets that way more dangerous fools already know, and some that they’d want to find out. by killing her, Willem basically “tells you” about Yahar’Gul and Mensis, so you have enough information to stop Micolash. And also destroys the source of knowledge, so no one else can ever make their insight experiments again, like Micolash did.
@@Ithirid Explains why we keep getting identity politics shoved down our throats even after the failure many such themed comic books, TV shows and movies. They're incapable of seeing that they're wrong.
Knock knock knock all day, that's because so many people are playing bloodborne and just one doorkeeper. That's why he's gone mad.
that's also why the doll is always falling asleep
Tried running through the nightmare of mensis with 99 insight.
that is when i realised that more insight is bad.....
Christoffer Boesen
What changes does it bring?
Christoffer Boesen
The start for me was atrocious but when I got past the part with the window it was way easier
Real Human bean nothing except the enemies near the grand cathedral and the witches of hemwick boss
Liron Levi
Oh, that’s it? They should’ve put more modifications into this game related to insight
Real Human bean Enemys are harder.
You voice suits comedy while Vaati would be good for drama lol
Comedy/Tragedy 👍
5 years still never learned English.
Due to Micolash's dialogue, we even know that the great one to raise up Rom was in fact Kos
@Joe Johnson wow why so much aggresivity and what makes this so inaccurate to spawn so much rage?
Or some say Kosm...
@Joe Johnson it's actually not wrong at all, he literally says "Grant us eyes like you once did for rom"
@Joe Johnson So youre just going to ignore a quote from micolash himself based on an assumption?
@Joe Johnson dude, youre just being ignorant at this point. Micolash flat out says that Kos ascended Rom. Just because Kos's physical body is dead doesnt mean that Kos itself is dead. My evidence?
Rom herself. You literally find Rom's corpse in Ebrietas's arena, yet you fight Rom. Rom is dead already, the Rom we fight is her consciousness; its her actual being. I know what you're thinking, since you've already mentioned it.
"Logic dictates otherwise" but does it? This is a game with invisible entities that are possible on the same level as christianity's God (Oedon). This is a game where a man can be turned into a multi-limbed, grotesque horse beast (Ludwig). Logic is 100% irrelevant in this conversation.
Hell, during the Orphan of Kos fight, orphan screams and lightning rains down on the arena. The strange thing is, this lightning ALWAYS falls on Kos's corpse. Its almost as if the Orphan is crying out for his mother, and Kos hears his cries for help.
Whether or not you believe anything i just said, you CANNOT ignore the fact that Micolash literally tells us that Kos ascended Rom
This did a really good job of explaining a lot of details other videos skipped, thank you comrade.
Jonathan Hyatt I am so glad to hear that, thank you. I did my best.
***** so far Fungo your doing better than vaatividya, ive go a feeling your're gonna be a pretty influential part of this games community soon.
Alecus Vaati aint done crap yet and fungo has like 10 vids out nice job man
I sort of get the impression that Laurence didn't forget the adage so much as was resigned to the consequences -- that he knew full well what would happen to him if he continued to meddle, but considered that a risk worth taking in the pursuit of enlightenment.
I've said my piece before on this, but it warrants repeating: The problem, I think, is less that they were corrupted and more that they were unprepared for precisely what would happen as a result of their "enlightenment." The old blood didn't just increased their IQ scores. It altered their physical forms, and the ways in which they saw, heard and smelled the world around them in ways their brains did not know how to translate. Like the scientists in the Manhattan project, Laurence and co. knew what they were doing, and to what end it was being done, but did not realize the full scope of their actions until after the damage had been done.
I have never played Bloodborne ( I WISH I COULD DANGIT) so this tiny theory is just what I have come up with from my backseat gaming of Bloodborne!
Ebrietes was found deep below Yarhnam (ie. Pthumerian Labyrinth) The Pthumerians lived sometime before humans became the "dominate" life and they went through many of the same problems the characters of Bloodborne went through. The Scurge of the Beast from Great One blood. Madmen from too much insight and so on. The Pthumerians must have died out from the scurge but a few of them (Just like the true ending) were able to ascend to were the other Great Ones are. So what if Ebrietes was a Pthumerian who had reached the final stages of ascension but was "Left behind" You could technically call her a Great One as the Healing Church used her blood just as the Pthumerians used a Great One similar to Ebrietes but of a race before the Pthumerians became the "dominate" life.
Willam tried to gain insight and knowledge to ascend to a Great One while others branched off and tried to use the Old Blood from Ebrietes as well as studying the cosmos to ascend. Both ways can work, but not without the other!
Willam reached a point were he could "comprehend" the Great Ones with his Insight and Wisdom, but he was not strong enough to face/physically ascend himself. Willam had pretty much hit a roadblock and stopped.
Laurence and the Healing Church used the Old Blood to make themselves stronger and tried to study the Great Ones. While they were strong enough to ascend, they lacked the insight and knowledge on how to do so, instead, the power they held within themselves turned them into beasts!
Almost all of the Great Ones, (Mostly the unnamed ones) besides Paleblood, where once part of a race similar to the Pthumerians and Humans. A few ascended from their race, while the others died out. Eventually Humans will die out as well and a new "Dominate" life will take their place. They will find a Great One similar to Ebrietes (Prob a player's character that failed to fully ascend after defeating the Moon Presence) and they will be used in the same way. Eventually they will die out and a few of them will have ascended to a Great One as well. Repeat repeat.
Your character successfully becomes a Great One by using the power of the Old Blood (Blood Echoes) AND Insight (Insight/Umbilical Cords/Defeating foes like Rom) By the end, our character is able to "understand" the Great Ones AND is strong enough to defeat and physically become one as well! :D
Thanks to anyone who reads all of this. I know I did not explain it very well but I hope the point gets across. Please debate your opinion! :)
@Joe Johnson that's a little rude, man was just making a theory based off their knowledge of the game and lore.
I like your theory mate👍
I love this! I am new to the game and have been studying the lore. This helped clarify some things. I like the cycle of evolution you mapped out 👌
This would explain why so many Great Ones are sympathetic to us (before we kill them. They were the same as us so they understand our plight.
The Scourge wasn't present until Pthumerians killed their queen and her child, Mergo, at which point Oedon was furious and thus cursed them, and everyone who came into contact with Old Blood with the Scourge.
Hi! I really like your lore videos and how you edited them. One thing that I do have a problem is that Rom is not mindless. Her knowledge and insight after her transofrmation is probably so high that she can no longer communicate with mundane beings like humans. It's like using human language to try to talk to an ant, hence why she is name Vacuous. Synonyms of vacuous are emptied, void and drained. I really do think that Rom does have high intelligence but lacks all the mundane thoughts and feelings of a human being after her transformation, hence drained/vacuous. The vacuous/void part could mean that she is void of human thoughts and feelings.
Also, from the true ending we notice that our hunter turns into an INFANT great one. This is probably the same thing with Rom. Notice how she is defenseless and helpless until you take out third of her health then she finally defends herself? I highly think that Rom is still young. Miyazaki from the interview did describe her movements "cute". What type of creature is defenseless, requires the protection of others and lacks thoguht? The answer is a baby. A baby lacks thought, is defenseless and requires protection.
You mentioned a note that saids ""The spider hides all manner of rituals, certain to reveal nothing, for true enlightenment need not be shared.". She does know something and it saids "true enlightement need not be shared". This is probably the same thing as Willem, which is why he spread the adage "Fear the Old Blood".
***** I find you again! I agree with what you said, but in the video I disagree in the way Rom becomes a great one.
Iridiumraven lol we meet again.
+Celest1alBe1ng Do we know what Gehrman says if we face Rom, don't fight her and go back to the hunter's dream ?
+Celest1alBe1ng so you read the Paleblood Hunt good job to you ! :)
In the Japanese version, the name is Rom, the stupid spider. Stupid as in retarded.
It must take to so long to understand and piece together all this stuff, you truly are awesome fungo
***** Yeah, I'm pretty wiped out mentally. Thanks!
missing Gehrman in all of this. In one of his lines after taking out Rom he'll be outside and say, "Oh, Laurence... Master Willem... Somebody help me... Unshackle me please, anybody... I've had enough of this dream... The night blocks all sight... Oh, somebody, please... " So he's connected in this too.
One more thing, Gehrman actually knew both Laurence and Willem.
"Oh Laurence... what's taking you so long? I've grown too old for this, of little use now, I'm afraid."
"Oh Laurence, Master Willem... Help me, unshackle me... The Night blocks all sight, somebody, please!! uhhh.... ahhhhh!!"
Starting to think the only reason I'm subscribed to Vaati is because of my man-crush for his voice. Your videos are so much more thorough.
MushyBird McMushington That, and that this guy puts out more than 3 videos a month.
+MushyBird McMushington (the Mushiest of Birds) yeah I over Vaati and waiting 6 months for a video and it turning out to be a video of a game I don't even care about.
Back when he was just having fun his vids were cool but he takes the whole thing so seriously now.
I really dont understand why people say Fungo is so much more thorough. He makes more bloodborne related videos sure, but Vaati describes a lot of these concepts all in one video. Fungo is great for his personality but sometimes that self inserting goes too far into plain misinformation. Vaati does the same thing too of course, I dont have a problem with either. I just dont understand this concept of better than the other, especially when they review the same information but with different interpretations. There are errors in both which makes it all the more reason to watch both lol.
The Choir and Mensis are separate factions, both that originated in the Healing Church but split and began working on their own. Otherwise, why would a member of The Choir try to infiltrate Mensis?
+Limo Maker This is definitely right, there is also a member of the Choir who is dead, imprisoned, and appears to be tortured / experimented on, inside Yahar'Gul (Basically inside the School of Mensis). It seems like they were once allies, working for the Church, but split apart probably as Micolash went crazy and they performed darker experiments and rituals.
I think Fungo meant to say that the choir came after mensis rather than was a part of it, but I was going to comment the same thing as you before I saw it lol
How much insight to hear the crazy doorkeeper?
Time for fun
Dark Renewed I had max insight 90+, but maybe 60 will work, if not then try 80?
***** Alright I'll check it out. You've got some awesome videos by the way, and a new sub! Looking forward to you're new stuff!
Dark Renewed I managed to trigger the crazy talk somehow, but I didn't even have 20 insight. Must be either random or dependent on some other factor we're not aware of yet.
Hm... If only we had more eyes. Perhaps on the inside...
***** Odd. Maybe we're looking in the wrong places...
The cosmos could be just above our heads
or some say "kosm"os
+Dark Renewed i see what you did ther!!
I now feel bad for the gate keeper...
your videos are addictive man! Informative, good-paced, and humorous at the same time. I really think you really deserve more attention from the community than you are right now. Keep up the good work, loremaster !
men bloodborne its a deep game with no happy endings. When you start having fun and entertain yourself with all the beasts and the hoonters then it come eventually the time to search anwsers. When you see all this videos (lore ones) you just want to pass by everyone without harming them and kill bosses for redembtion...not beacause they are evil or bad because you want to free them from this enternal nightmare ...not DREAM
E I L E E N T H E H O O N T E R
The first ending is the happy one. Your character wakes up in a world where the sun shines down upon Yharnam, revealing the truth, which is that Bloodborne is fiction, and so too are the great ones...
I think that your explanation was spot on and one of the clearest I've heard so far. Excellent work
I just want some eyes...
Istari Pallando You damned creepyboi O.o
Human Effigy Here you go. 👀
Grant us eyes, grant us eyes
7 years later and i still cannot let this game down... its addictive... thank you for the videos! they show details that i never noticed ....
Some really interesting information. I haven't started compiling and piecing the lore together yet, but the amount of detail you have presented is almost overwhelming. You give a massive amount of info. The video could almost be broken up into parts.
The amount of work you put into gathering lore, editing the video and presenting it in a interesting manner is inspiring. I hope to put together a lore video of The Choir in the future, but it's a bit of an intimidating process. I'll stick to how to videos for now.
Take it easy.
ooh dude great work man especially those gate keeper dialogues !
Damn i really enjoy these lore videos you're putting up. Thanks you :D
This was such a thorough video. Very well made!
Wow,that's amazing,thanks for bringing your great videos for us,they explain a lot
nice album picture
I love that you put the guy from Ancient Aliens in there hahahaha. Great work man! I love this game so so much.
That Silent Hill reference is so good. I'm proud of you.
Wow I didn't even think about Rom being the one who once consumed 3 cords, excellent video.
You forgot the altar where ebrietas is, in that altar there is a statue VERY similar to rom, which was a member of the choir who also ascended to a great one because ebrietas shared his knowledge with him (or her, i think it is a him because of the long legs) and he couldnt take it, so he became a VACUOUS spider
I love your videos, Fungo. Especially BB and SH. Can't wait to see your Sekiro videos!!
At 3:04 you write that Insight=Madness when overcome by he great one's eldritch powers, but rather insight is the knowledge that the hunter has about everything that is inhuman, frenzy is the player going mad when confronted by something he cannot comprehend.
CaptainWaffle No buddy, the higher insight you have, the faster you'll be frenzied. It's an actual mechanic
Yup is a
mechanic of the game but it is a strong reference to the mythology of
Lovecraft about how people went mad because they could not contemplate
the absolute truth of the Great Ancients
"Gotta get the door Louis?" The Anonymous Gatekeeper might be addressing himself aloud as Louis?
Really enjoying your videos man. Just blowing my mind everytime I watch one lol
Is there lore on how Amygdalae (-dalas?) came to be? What created them or what made them appear?
Dat Heaty I'm still wondering that myself.
Dat Heaty need to know !
You will have to wait for dlc 14.99 please
It would make sense if Amygdalas only appeared in the nightmare, then you could link it to Mensis. Problem is that they also appear in the normal dream.
Amy might have been a great one that came to our world and communicated to us through nightmares and dreams.
New subscriber Fungo! Picked up the game again after a year, enjoying it with the dlc. Love your videos.
Your theory of Rom being a student makes sense as I heard from Silvermont that she was the child of a great one, presumably Ebrietas. The Stundent became a surrogate, and took place as Ebrietas's child. And we can see a Rom look alike in the Alter of Despair.
I love these videos, I keep coming back to re-watch them ^_^
I would love a video that goes further into your concept of the Eldritch truth, great video
When information is given and you want more. Curiosity kills.
This is great! I really like some of your insights, and perhaps you'll listen to some of mine, since I've been also digging this game's lore for over a month, now.
While I do think you are right regarding Laurence, I do think that more needs to be talked about regarding Rom and the Paleblood Moon.
There are basically two theories, and I do believe both are very good and hard to refute.
1: This is your theory. The old fragile Willem points the way to the spider, too old to do anything else. The spider dies and the Paleblood Moon rises, as the Moon Presence, one of the most powerful Great Ones, sensed the death of the spider and saw a chance to exert greater power upon the world, causing strange occurences.
and 2, and this one I like it because it is pretty crazy: Provost Willem was using Rom. One of the greater themes of Bloodborne THAT VERY SO OFTEN is forgotten is "eyes". The theme of "eyes" is everywhere, from the name of the characters to one of main teachings of Willem, and the very base of it: in order to reach a greater understanding, one must align the eyes with the brain. Now taking Rom's name and design: the "vacuous" spider with a lot of eyes. I do believe that the experiments of Byrgenwerth resulted on Rom becoming a Great One, however (maybe because Rom wasn't touched by a Great One like the Player had been) it resulted in the stilbirth of her brains, hence the vacuous spider, as you pointed it yourself. However, Master Willem still saw use in her, as he could align his brain with her eyes and sap unto its power. As he felt the growing of the Moon Presence, who was beckoned by Gehrman (you should do a lore video on him, I'd love to watch/help), he used Rom's power as a Great One to stop it (but why can you kill Willem and nothing happens? For the same reason why Micolash is dead and yet his nightmare persists). Thus begins the long night, as it is shown by the rotting carcasses and the size of the crows who eat the flesh of fallen beasts. The murder of Vicar Amelia strengthens the Moon Presence, and we are pointed in Rom's direction.
Why? Because the Moon Presence is using us to murder Great Ones, primarily Mergo.
The resulting Paleblood Moon shows us that which we at first needed insight to see: the amygdalas.
I've always liked Micolash's extra dialogue if you take too long "Grant us eyes, Grant us eyes! Just like you did for the Vacuous Rom."
For those curious, the song at the end is " Remains from Dark Souls 2"
One thing I hate about Bloodborne that is not here (in game) is that you do not get boss souls to get more information on what, or who, they were before. This would make story telling a bit better.
TheArby913 This is not a Dark Souls game it is branched off from Demon Souls a game that never gave boss Souls and had little to go when relating to story.
Jack Thomas Demon's Souls gave out boss souls, and this game is not branched off of Demon's Souls. They said from the very beginning they wanted to do something different and new.
Jack Thomas Demons Souls DID give boss souls. This is it's own little experiment, not a branch of of demon's souls.
عربي ؟؟
+TheArby913 You know, I never really thought about that, but Boss Souls with lore would be AWESOME in this game.
The mumbling at the door was new info and seriously creepy!
willem's halfway to Kinship, he's got coral growing off his head
the lecture building was literally ripped from reality and into the night mare, it exists between plains now
Gotta love opening a portal to shoot out a tentacle of an Eldritch Goddess from your arm to parry an attack.
Hey Fungo, it's Mel. I know it's been ages since we last talked, but I'm keepin you and yours in thought. Thanks for doing this video, I actually have to write something based on this for a client. You did an amazing job as always friend
I had no fucking clue that the more insight you had meant the less resistance you had to frenzy. Thank god I figured poison worked wonders against winter lanterns beforehand. And a very fun way of fighting them with the blades of mercy.
My god, the lore of this game is so complicated and detailed
I always felt like willem isn't actually alive when we meet him in the game, almost like something else is using his dead body as a shell.
lmao the clip with the sedative at 9:38! that's happened to me so many time ahah...
I definitely think you're on point here so good job!
Fungo, this is why you are my prince of teh interwebz!
60 fps video on a 30 fps game... Noice. More seriously good video man lots of details and I learned more about the Bloodborne lore. Thanks you :D
I disagree with Rom being a human turned great one. 1) she has the weaknesses of kin (Lightning and thrust), which the moon presence and Orphan don't have . 2) she drops Kin coldblood. 3) As far as we know, Byrgenwerth only had 1 cord. The one from Kos' child.
My theory is that she was an attempt at becoming a great one but was ultimately a failure and only became kin.
During the parallels to Catholicism bit, you showed Rowan Williams, now ex-Archbishop of Canterbury and a Protestant of the Church of England, he's not Catholic. :)
The more you know! :D
Great video. ^_^
Props to the voice actor who did the gatekeeper. Swell job!
Honestly, he captures the madness perfectly in his performance.
Imagine being paid to babble incoherently, I'd take that job in a heartbeat.
The spider isn't hiding the ritual as in not saying how she became a great one, Rom is hiding the Mensis ritual, hence why there is a message in Yahar'gul mentioning the red moon before the red moon appears. It is also why there are Amygdalas all around Yharnam, but unless you have insight they are hidden.
4:36
Few years late but wanted to say that Catholics believe that during Communion the wine *literally* becomes Blood, not figuratively. Its more apt of a metaphor as a result.
I was expecting that door man to say "Ooh, Andy".
I don't know if you know this but the Nightmare Frontier seems to heavily related or be part of Loran as Amygdala drops the Loran chalice and states in the description that Yharnam would have been the next destination for the scourge. Lower Loran chalice also says that there were "medical" procedures in Loran itself
Lawrence is probably overwhelmed by insight, his head is lined with eyes afterall.
Willem is transforming slowly into Kin, no? Why the mushrooms on him that are found on Ebrietas?
Also, Rom hides the rituals of Mensis, hence the descent of the Paleblood Moon when you kill her. I think Willem had some part of that to prevent Mensis from beckoning the Moon a second time, after Gherman and Laurance did it the first time. I think he was the only one to figure out how dangerous the Old Ones unwittingly are before actually transforming himself.
2:26 i believe is actually "she always bit me" referring to ebrietas don't know if anyone else has said this.
sometimes i gotta give the Voice actors that From soft hires props.
they do a really good fucking psycho
>Drinking figurative blood during Communion
Oh boy, here we go...
I did not realize this game has Silent Hill 4 in it, now I can't get over how oblivious Henry would be if he was in Yharnam. "What the hell?"
my concentration on this video was completely broken by 5:50 with that voice. it's not a bad impression, it just sounds like Nicolas Cage.
Great video fungo! Big fan of your work! :)
Grant us blood rocks grant us blood rocks
Great video u sure are gonna get the entire lore explained.
I think at some point Willem succeeded in making contact with the Great Ones (you can see he also suffered slight transformation on the back of his head) and maybe he realized how dangerous this discovery was for humanity so he decided to stop the research and forbid all the knowledge garnered up to that point, but laurence wanted to continue with the research regardless of any risk, hence why he left Willem and funded the Healing Church.
It's sounds like he's saying "Gotta get the door Lewis."
his door rant reminds me of the courage the cowardly dog song. 'who's gonna get the door'
2:11 someone had fun dubbing a dead guy XDD
the writers made some depressingly real parallels dayum son
this was great and informative :) please make more!
Byrgenwerth was probably founded as a result of the tombs of the gods and the Pthumerian protectors they discovered. Perhaps Willem was a part of this group of adventurers and then theorized on what it all meant. He founded the school and then everything goes from there. Byrgen in German means tomb.
Huh. How strange that he just hit the 10 minutes mark. How lucky that was.
My insight is mad high and I didn't hear the skeleton going nuts lol
0:45 Man you should have put "One and the same" clip from Twin Peaks there :D
I had not considered willem's place in most of this, since he was mostly silent in the game and not much was apparent and obvious to learn about him. The idea that he became ignorant to these things because he desired a certain outcome (confirmation bias) is interesting. He looked to the cosmos and was a visionary, seeing that the source was there, and understood many aspects about it, but when it came to the physical science of the transmutation or alteration...he didn't want to delve into it. He feared the possibilities that it would bring, and he was right to fear them. I only wonder now about the implications of his own path. What would have happened if everyone had been more patient, and followed Willem's vision more closely? perhaps a more gentle and connected ascendence could have taken place, as opposed to the rushed blood transfusions that led to the horrors of the game.
Great video, I would only suggest taking things a little slower. These topics are very interesting, and taking your time to explore them is never a bad thing, even if it's just spectulation. I like to imagine being in the shoes of the characters and sitting by the lake, it reminds me of a song called "sunrise on the blue nowhere" which played in many creepypastas back in the day. It's always had a very ominous feeling to it, and it brings me a strange comfort just like this game does.
I dont think the lecture building is a 'nightmare version' the theatre key says it's 'now adrift in the nightmare but was once..." this implies its the same place that somehow got sucked into the nightmare.
4:32 you are talking about the Catholic church, but the picture is showing the former archbishop of Canterbury from the church of England which is protestant!
What is that thing on his neck? Is it some type of fungus growing? I always thought it was a type of parasite that had attached itself and was somehow connected to the great ones
I thought having more insight makes you more resistant to frenzy
fungo's character is bae
I thought the reason why the choir is in bywentworth is because they dug their way in
love that crazy dead doorman
ahah omguuushh i love his voice overs, its hilariously awesome, thanks bro
i really like your sense of humor. LOL :'D
personally i think Rom was created by Ebrietas. from micolash
"As you once did for the vacuous Rom, grant us eyes, grant us eyes. Plant eyes on our brains, to cleanse our beastly idiocy." *some one created Rom*
"The grand lake of mud, hidden now, from sight." " *altar of despair*
"The cosmos, of course!" " *Ebrietas*
and Rom in altar of despair are failure transform.
loseho inwmak He's talking about Kos, or as some say Kosm. It's possible Kosm had some part to play in the creation of Rom, but I don't know how. And in case you don't know, Kos is the Great One heart that was chained up in the nightmare.
***** i like that theory but we found Rom in Byrgenwerth and The Healing Church both lead by two people who seem to get knowledge from Oedon and success in creation of their own Vacuous Spider and what people at Mensis dose is try to mimic them by capture their own Great One but they failed, they Great One didn't strong enough to create another Great Ones only cause people mad and mutation. my only prove is we don't find any clue of Rom in Mensis. this is pure wiki research so i might be wrong. nice video btw.
***** That brain is the Brain Of Mensis aka. School Of Mensis + Mergo brains converted into a rotten Great One. Where did you find evidence that Kosm is the chained brain?
OMG those silent hill parts XD
My name is Willem. I came into this video expecting many things, but hearing my own name spoken correctly out loud so many times in one sitting really fucked me up. I'm pretty sure I heard "Willem" (and I cannot stress this next part enough) spoken correctly her more times than every other instance in my life combined and I feel something that I can't describe now.
This might be a theory of mine.. but could be wrong. It's possible that Kos is the parent of Ebritis.. and Ebritis is the parent of Rom. That's what I though when we were introduced to Ebritis as she's staring at a dead spider's body with many eyes.. which would be Rom's true body.. but Rom's spirtual body being in the dream in the lake. When Master Willem triggered the summons of Rom, it trapped Willem in a dream. And I really think Willem pointed the Hunter into the direction of the Lake, to hunt Rom and free him (willem) from the dream. And that Rom triggered the events that allowed the ritual by the school of Mensis to be carried out unnoticed. There was just no way the school of Mensis could have summoned Mergo without Willem summoning Rom. Also.. one more theory... Mergo's Wet Nurse IS Oedon as they both were described as being formless.
+cloudybrain This is the first time I've heard about a comparison between Rom and the spider corpse Ebritis is with. Interesting idea. I have nothing to add to that, but from what I heard, Rom seemed to be against the School of Mensis, who had conducted a terrifying ritual. Rom was said to be the veil hiding the world from what the School was doing. Killing her, kind of did wonders for the School, I think.
Hmm.. I always thought Rom's presence is what the school of Mensis used to hide the rituals so no one knew what they were doing. I think that's one of the reasons the Choir sent spies to infiltrate the school. As a protagonist you're trying to uncover what's going on, and if you and Rom were against the school of Mensis, there would be no reason to kill Rom. Rom's purpose also trapped Willem, as was mentioned in a note found in Oedon's chapel : "The spider of Byrgenwerth hides many rituals, and keeps our lost master from us." Willem wanted to be free from this trap and that's why he pointed to the direction of the lake so he could be freed. Just like how gehrman was stuck in his dream.
The Wet Nurse probably is Viola, Gascoigne's wife. Her body disappears after your kill the wet nurse. Also, the wet nurse's theme is the same music that plays on Gascoigne's music box
Lore on the Shadow's of Yharnam, what role they play (besides being a snake cult) and why they appear again in the Nightmare of Mensis?
I would love to see a blood borne 2 where your character from the first game now a Great One brings a new outsider to Yarnum to help fight the beast again or maybe even have new spots to go to. Blood borne 2 would be great.
I take it that the gatekeeper was speaking some caryll runes in combination with English. Madness and such