Johnny Bench: Pete Rose Shouldn't Be in the Baseball Hall of Fame | The Dan Patrick Show | 7/17/18
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- Johnny Bench explains to Dan Patrick why he doesn't believe his former teammate Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame.
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Doesn’t really matter if they hang a plaque on a wall somewhere for Rose, his name will live on forever as one of the greatest of all time.
Greatest what? He had a chance, the FBI said they'd drop his back taxes and get the NJ mobsters to forgive his $500,000 debt to them, but Rose said no, he was too big. Giamatti dropped the hammer on him, he went to prison for tax evasion and was banned forever from MLB. Worse than that, to pay his debt to the Mob he financed cocaine deals. Here is the Commissioner's report, long read.
www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/03/21/rose-investigator-pete-belong-game/25112355/
Everybody bent over backwards to save the face of baseball, he refused. Do you you support that?
Mountain Fisher I never said he was a hero, I never said he wasn’t a gambler, I never said he conducted himself like an angel. Really I’m no big Rose fan. Regardless of his actions he is still one of the “greatest” hitters to ever live. He played baseball to win. There is nothing he can do or anyone can say to deny this.
@@tinyman520 O.J. Simpson was a great football player too but don't think anyone is going to be putting up a plaque for him and he was acquitted.
Yup, people should continue to talk about him.
Especially to the next generation
I agree!
So all of Pete's records and all of Pete's meorabellia can get in the Hall, but the man himself cannot? It's the hypocracy of the situation.
The_Alaskan_Yeti, what exactly do you think is hypocritical there?
The MLB continues to make money on Pete Rose and the owners still make tons of money from the gambling industry. MLB is not subject to the same laws as any other big business.
all that matters is his records. the hall of fame is overrated.
Exactly. Not to mention baseball being allowed to gamble nowadays on games
@mksrookies The punishment was not established until after he accepted the ban.
Pete Rose has such a legacy that it wouldn’t matter if he were inducted into the Hall of Fame.
@James Ratliff It would be nothing like Kareem. Kareem never disgraced his sport so why would he not be in the NBA Hall of Fame? The only thing in the NBA you can compare Pete Rose to that would make sense is Tim Donaghy.
@James Ratliff Baseball has integrity for keeping Rose and Bonds out thus proving they can't be compared to wrestling. Rose committed the cardinal sin and baseball already had a poster boy if anyone else tried it. Everyone knew what the punishment would be and it was clearly written. It wouldn't have surprised me if someone that was barely on a roster tried to bet, but the hit king doing it just proves how arrogant he is and to deny it for years rather than take the deals that were handed to him even before the investigation makes it one of the worst stories in the hi story of all sports. He could have avoided going to jail if he just took the deal, but somehow he thought he could lie and deny it forever. I guarantee if he made the hall 5 years afterwards, he would have never confessed to anything. He still denies things that the evidence clearly points out. Keeping him on the permanently ineligible list is the only decision in the last 40 years that baseball has gotten right.
@James Ratliff Kareem never broke a rule that states if you break it you will be banned for life. Pete Rose did.
@James Ratliff I'm caught up in the fact that this was a Pete Rose discussion about him being banned from baseball for gambling on the Reds. The investigation didn't span all the years of his career. Once they could validate the claims made by his bet runners, they didn't go much further than that. However, years later it was discovered that they had evidence Rose did in fact bet on baseball while he was a player manager. Regardless, whether his playing days were over or not, he broke Rule 21 and he knew what the punishment would be. He will never get into the Hall, but Kareem proudly sits in the NBA Hall of Fame for not breaking any rules.
@James Ratliff It's wrestling. Who cares? The whole thing is a total scripted show. Major sports can't script Willie Mays' catch in the World Series. They can't script Derek Jeter's play against the A's. Wrestling is all scripted, all steroids, all made up. Vince McMahon was the freaking owner when he was "just the announcer". That's how scripted the entire thing is. They are great at it. Are the wrestlers athletes. Sure they are but comparing their Hall of Fame to anything else is quite ridiculous. There is NO softening towards Pete. He still denies some of the stuff he did even though it's all documented so there's no commissioner in their right mind that will bend on him. The Hall would have to modify their rule because MLB is definitely not changing their stance in our lifetime.
Lmao the second they mention or start to mention Hall of Fame, guys like Bench already start rolling their eyes because they know where the interview is going, especially about Rose.
Bench needs to get over it.
@@RedroomStudios Agreed
@@RedroomStudios Bench was an honorable player who did nothing to hurt the game. Pete Rose not so much and he feels baseball owes him something. Grew up in Cincinnati watching these guys play and would always run into them around town all the time. Pete Rose was the only one who would never sign anything the rest of them would sit and chat and sign whatever you wanted. Pete Rose is an ass hat of a person.
@@billsmith6309 so you are using your own personal animus against him as the measuring stick... I dont care about him as a person. the HOF is about recognizing accomplishments on the field. the guy is the all time hits leader in the game. for him to not be represented in the Hall is beyond ridiculous. and if I was Rose I would think the game owed me something too with the stats he has.
He is in the Gambling Hall of Fame though. @@RedroomStudios
Don't really matter if he's not in the hall . His 4000+ hits are legendary..And will never be broken .
Pete rose should be in the hall. 100%
He cant be in the hall of fame thats like saying go ahead cheat its ok
He is, he's all over it. He has around 15 items and pictures in it.
Keeping him out is like saying "make a mistake and you get the death penalty' He's been punished enough
He will be in sadly after he dies!
ashley pyatt oh like all those PED users still being on the ballot 🧐
You'd never know he was banned if you're familiar with vintage baseball card prices.
(Which I have several PR cards)
They should really induct Joe Jackson posthumously. I know he may have had knowledge of the Black Sox scandal, but the dude hit .375 for the series, had the most RBI's, and even hit the only HR in the series. He maintained his innocence in his career, and at this point, I really think it's long overdue to enshrine Jackson in the HOF.
Agreed...but I also think Rose should be in...I just don't understand how mistakes for part of their career defines their entire career.
“When a Cincinnati player would bat a ball out in my territory I’d muff it if I could-that is, fail to catch it. But if it would look too much like crooked work to do that, I’d be slow and make a throw to the infield that would be short. My work netted the Cincinnati team several runs that they never would have had if we had been playing on the square.”
-sworn testimony by Joe Jackson
and more....“And I’m going to give you a tip. A lot of these sporting writers that have been roasting me have been talking about the third game of the World’s Series being square. Let me tell you something. The eight of us did our best to kick it and little Dick Kerr won the game by his pitching. Because he won it, those gamblers double crossed us because we double crossed them.”
Stats aren't everything.
@kidzbop38isstraightfire92 If you were a model citizen and good neighbor right up until the caught you robbing a charity fund, do you think they should give you the keys to the city and make you Man of the Year after you serve your time?
I grew up a Dodgers fan and I EFFING HATED the Reds during the 70s, but I and a lot of my friends had a ton of respect for Johnny Bench. He was the greatest.
That picture of him holding SEVEN baseballs in ONE hand is potentially the most riveting baseball photos of all time in my opinion.
Bench was the greatest catcher I have ever seen .
After Pete Rose, the greatest.
Pete's not a catcher, I realize..
I am A Dodger fan and watching Pete Rose play baseball at Dodger Stadium in the 70s & 80s was awesome. Charlie Hustle!!!
At this point, not being in the HOF is probably going to make Rose’s legacy greater.
Nope. He's still a douchebag.
@@pneulancer *Rose* is a douchebag AND a future HOF member. He won't be the first. That dis-honor has to go to a member of the first HOF class, *Ty Cobb.*
@ Not a HOF member by any shot. If you want to see what gambling does, then look no further than Shoeless Joe Jackson, who it was proven DID NOT bet on baseball, but is banned from the hall. His crime was knowing it was happening and not speaking out about it. Bench is right. Pete is a dumbshit who had a chance to "manup" to what he did, but chose the stupid way to go, following his moron lawyer's advice. If Gamblin' Pete gets in Joe Jackson goes in first, since at least he didn't do what Gamblin" Pete ADMITTED to doing.
@Mr.Brenman21 Nope. Just another in a long list of dishonest, egotist who think rules dont apply to them.
@Mr.Brenman21 Obviously it isn't just my opinion. Your argument is that if someone else gets away with cheating then MLB and the HOF should let every cheater from then forward off the hook as well.
Inconsistency in the application of the law has been part of human history from the beginning. The solution is not to throw out all enforcement, but to strive to do better.
But inconsistency aside, Bonds, Sosa, McGuire et al, cheated. No one made them do it. How are they victims? How about the pitchers who's stats were made artificially worse by facing them? How about Hank Aaron's record being basically stolen? How about other clean hitters who didn't get to compete on a level playing field?
Absolutely the greatest catcher in my lifetime, nobody else comes close.
This is an important point made by Bench. Gambling got him suspended, but his lack of contrition and continued lies made the ban permanent. I was 10 at the time of the scandal. 10 year old me thought it was all a misunderstanding or that he was framed because the great Pete Rose said he "didn't bet on baseball or Cincinnati Red's baseball". Then decades later he comes out with a book to make money off the fact that he did bet on baseball. And this followed years after making money playin the part of a martyr... No. You don't get to get into the HOF. It's not the initial lie or sin. It is the continued failure to make amends except for when it was in his own self interest
Bingo. You just nailed it! 👍
Sometimes people are just too stubborn for their own good.
He DID have a path to the HOF and he stubbornly refused it.
I have FOUR kids and I show them videos on Pete Rose and say “This is how you play.”
He bet to WIN! He’s guilty of being a cocky SOB. His own Boss. Thank you Mr.Rose!
Don't show them any videos of him during his off time.
Juan Vargas hell yeah he played the game the way it should he played
What about the games he didn't bet on? Did that tell the gamblers that he thought the Reds were going to lose that night? It's more complex than you make it out to be.
And to all of you people saying how great Pete Rose was. Yes he's leader in lifetime hits. I ask you to be honest, if you were making up the top nine players of your all time All-Star team Pete Rose wouldn't be on it. If you disagree with me tell me what position he would play? Third base , well I will take George Brett and Mike Schmidt ahead of Pete Rose and that's just off the top of my head. The outfield no fucking chance. First base, Gehrig, Frank Thomas, Albert Pujols, might have something to say about that. Also there's a chance Joe Morgan or Johnny Bench would be on that team.
Curtis Davies hahaha you put Frank Thomas name in front of Pujols😂😂😂😂😂
“Wanna bet I’ll get in?” - Pete Rose
LOL
@@rickb.9067 You’re right about that!!!!
Lol
Rose is already in. All time hits record.
He will get in but sad part is it will be when he passes away!!sucks cuz he probably the best hitter of all time
Betting for yourself is a lot different than betting against yourself in my opinion
The issue with that is the fact that literally the year after he stopped managing, his team won the World Series in a sweep so it looks even worse because people felt that he was betting against his team for more money. Personally I don’t think that but I do understand where it’s coming from
It might be, but that's not an exception to the MLB betting rules. AND HE BROKE THOSE RULES. Then he lied for years and years and years.
You can bet on yourself and still hurt your team. For instance, pitching matchups and bullpen management. You go all out on the games that you've bet on yourself and then you leave your team depleted for the rest of the series
@@mycartel39 yep. Great example of how problematic it is
Daniel McGarel: The problem with that, in respect to Rose, is that he most likely did both. Giamatti felt he had enough to make the case, and ended the Dowd investigation. But Dowd felt pretty sure that Rose bet against the Reds, and that if he was allowed to continue, he would have shown that.
One thing about Pete, he didn’t buy ONE hit. Read Bench’s personal life. He didn’t walk on water.
I know. Who is he to talk,?
@@Amick44 How did Bench break MLB rules?
@@tedfio1tedfio1 I wasn't aware that he did
@@Amick44 Than what is wrong with Bench answering the question given to him about Rose? Bench is viewd by most as the greatest MLB Catcher to ever play the game. He was a teamate of Rose and knows the man!
Bench was as if asbumbastheycome
Few people can truly understand just how bad any addiction can cloud your judgement
So true. Just a few months ago my wife got Addicted to casino gambling and I'll tell you we are paying dearly for now
Rush Ron
The most important thing to remember if your spouse is addicted to anything is not to hang on and hit rock bottom with them. If she slips back into the addiction you have to let her go. Make that very clear to her. I was an addict for almost 20 years and any kindness or sympathy I was shown I took advantage of the person. It’s what we do.
@@chrisj197438 thanks for the advice!
If that’s the case then A-Rod.. Barry Bonds.. Several more are In the hall they cheated also so how’s that?
@@itslildaryl7426 Juiced up batters were going against juiced up pitchers it was an a messed up way kind of fair for them. It was not fair for the players like Chipper Jones who people believe never did anything to enhance their performance. I am not a Braves fan at all but damn if chipper had been on the juice who knows what the records would be
You can never ignore his accomplishments!!! Nobody will ever top it! His accomplishments are overwhelming Hall of Fame material!!
Cant ignore Shoeless Joe's accomplishments or Eddie Cicotte's, either. They would both likely be Hofers too.
Too bad for all 3, they did what they did.
You cant ignore how he bet on games he was playing in or managing. Pete rose is a disgrace to the game and shame on anyone who defends him. They dont care about the dignity of the game that makes baseball so great.
His accomplishments in the 60s and 70s were decent, not even great. He was worthless after 1980, but was allowed to keep penciling himself into a lineup just to chase a record by sheer longevity. His career became a joke for the final six years.
and yet, his degenerate lies are overwhelming HOF disqualifcations.
@@markw4206 Coming from someone who grew up in Cincinnati watching these guys play i can tell you Pete Rose is not a good person. Guys like Bench were giving back to Cincinnati and Pete Rose was only interested in what Cincinnati could do for him. While the other player was talking with kids and signing stuff Pete Rose would literally have a 25$ for an autograph sign by him.
Pete had a gambling problem, that spilled over into his job later in life. The hall of Fame would be nice, but his stats speaks for itself. More hits than any player in the history of the game. He's in his own hall of Fame, that's good enough and maybe even better. Pete Rose doesn't need the Baseball Hall of Fame. They need him, because it's not truly a Hall of Fame without him.
Bullshit.
He is a Cheater, he gambled on the game as a Player & a Manager, 1 Rule in Baseball, Don't gamble on it.
@@Rspenesmit He only got caught.... many many players bet on baseball.
Bullshit
Calling BS. I think PR should be inducted for the fans and he should not get to participate in the ceremony or gain entrance to the building - ever. Having said that, his absence from the HoF doesn’t diminish it to the point of irrelevance. Not even close.
On a semi related note, they should stop this stupid crap about Bonds, McGwire, A-Rod etc. if PEDs were pervasive in the sport (which most people agree was the case), then suspected users would have to pass the test of all HoF nominees, namely: do they stand a cut above those in their era? In other words, was Bonds better than the juiced pitcher he faced or the juiced OFer that tried to catch his line drive to the gap (or who watched his ball fly over the wall)? Answer is “yes”, definitively so!
As a Padre fan... or even just a baseball fan in general, I admire Tony Gwynn a LOT more than Rose. Tony would NEVER bet on baseball and he didn't do steroids either. He had so much more integrity than that. My admiration for Pete dropped by half after the gambling fiasco.
When people throw stones... Pete Rose catches them 💯
It would've been funnier if you said "Pete Rose knocks them for a base hit", imo.
When people throw stones, Pete Rose hit them for base hits.
Every time people throw stones at Pete Rose, he hits them for another single.
True, ask Bob Boone.
Or better he hits them
Pete Rose was an outstanding player
That's not the point.
@@NortonsNestMonthly that's exactly the FN POINT
@@ozzymorrison8628 I don't think anyone questions that he should be in based on his ability. He's not in because of the gambling and lying about for so long, not because he wasn't a good enough player
@@ozzymorrison8628 No it's not! He broke the cardinal rule of major league baseball.You can't bet on the games.It's posted in every clubhouse.He broke the rule.Then he lied about it for years,before finally admitting it.
@@snave59 Yes, now that you mentioned it!!!
I’d pay to see how Johnny talks to Pete
Pete Rose should be in Hall of Fame! 😊
They offered it to him for his admission of guilt and an apology and he said know …that seemed like a fair offer
MLB has no say in who goes in hall it's privately owned
Rose has a lifetime ban. So he is eligible after he dies. Best of both worlds is put him in then. But he was not as detrimental to "the integrity of the game" as Bonds, Clemens, and McGwire.
Thanks goodness he didn't"CORK" his bat!😂😂😂😂😂😂
@Stephanie S Because, my good friend, having money on a game can cause people to play differently than if they didn't therefore adulterating the game.
That's the equivalent of not being able to choose if your country should drive on the left side or right side of the road, and deciding as a compromise that everyone will drive down the middle
Fixing games to win money not as detrimental? Wow. The ignorance behind your statement is just mind numbing.
@Stephanie S
The manager doesn't make decisions? K then.
Joe Jackson gets in before Pete
Abbuhl Charles I agree completely! If anyone deserves to be in the HOF, it’s Joe Jackson.
Yes shoeless should get in He was found not guilty But he will never get in there
Yup.
Hell yes for joe
Nope. Regardless if Joe Jackson did or did not take the 5K he knew what was going on.
I agree with Johnny 100%. I've been saying this for years. Had Rose come right out and admitted what he did and humbled himself and said he had a gambling problem all would have been forgiven and he'd have been in the hall for a while now but no, he chose to be an ass about it.
He bet on games including on the Reds while he was even a Manager for the Reds, come on folks, he stays out of the Cooperstown. Sure he was was an all-time great, would have loved him on my team, most would agree, just not in the Hall of Fame. I can't believe after 33 years we are still debating this, it is over - this is about the integrity of the game. Besides all this, I wish health and happiness, he is 81, God Bless him.
Integrity? Tell me the player or manager who earns a salary so meager that he has to gamble and fix games? No one needs to protect the integrity of baseball due to gambling violations. Not now days. This is insider grudge-politics, and it stinks.
@@stevesilva2780 , he gambled because he like it and probably got hooked on it.
Integrity of the game? LoL. Do you have any idea how many games were called because of rain and made official? Home teams won 70% of those in the 50's and 60's? How bout that integrity?
Hall of Fame or not, Pete Rose, in my opinion, was the best contact hitter ever.
He was of his time. You can make a strong argument for Rod Carew, but Pete hit for more power, extra base hits.
@@Amick44 and more hits
@@Amick44 Tony Gwynn.
@@mikesalyers4914 i speaking of his era.
Tony Gwynn and Pete Rose, but I get your point…he’s a hall of famer!
Unbelievable. Some of the scumbags that are in make Pete Rose look like an angel.
piggyroo100 Yeah Cobb was a racist who killed a man, Perry admitted to using a spitter his whole career, and Jenkins did drugs just to name a few. But, for whatever reason gambling is viewed as the cardinal sin. Pete should have come clean no doubt, but no one maximized his ability and played with the fire he did throughout his career . Maybe he’s not the nicest guy or was always looking for a buck but he was all about winning on the ballfield.
Bidwellz9 We were actually on Pete’s side, stating that people that have done far worse are in the hall.
misread the first part, my mistake.@@michaelpflug394
Bidwellz9 That’s ok, I’m from Cincinnati and I also believe Dave Concepcion should be in. That era shortstops didn’t put up big offensive numbers and next to Ozzie Smith I believe he was the finest fielding shortstop of that time.
@@michaelpflug394 You have bought into the bullshit someone wrote about Cobb that wasn't true. Much of what is "known" about Cobb today is total fabrication, written by someone wanting to make it big on the back of a HOF'er. Ruth was worse than Cobb ever was. Gambling is the ultimate sin because it could change the outcome of a game. Pete's pride got the better of him, and he is paying the price. It is a shame, but it is his own fault.
When Pete showed up in Philly last year and told a TV audience in Philly that he knew John Kruk when he had two balls, that kinda sealed the deal for Pete not getting into the Hall.
lol what a savage... certainly in poor taste, but nonetheless irrelevant to his career as a player...
low-hanging fruit, but if someone like kanye west can still be allowed to live among us, much less still have a career (rather than strapped to a UN rocket and launched directly into the sun for the good of mankind)... then there's certainly no reason Pete Rose can't be in the hall of fame...
Pete belongs in the Hall as a player.
I also thought that. But the thing is he also gambled when he was a player.
I agree. I never liked JB and like him less after this. THEY WERE All gambling on games, nothing new
@@robertdaniels6510
Maybe so. But we must be light in the darkness as Jesus said. Just because “all” are doing it doesn’t mean I need to follow them.
Pete agreed to the terms..
@@istvandejesus Did he bet against his team as a player?
But its ok for steroids i would rather have a gambler than a steroid user who stole records in the hall
Ancient rule and it's not like he threw a World Series. Big difference from the 1919 Black Sox scandal. And what about all the amphetamine users? They played more games, more years and got more hits and RBI's than they would have gotten. Can't single out 1 or 2 cheaters. Have to nail all the cheaters or let them all in the HOF
@Rod Allen - i don't disagree with you. If they wish to ban him from current MLB activity I'm in 100% agreement BUT put him in the HOF where he belongs. Keeping him out of the HOF because of a mistake is unfair. The HOF is a shrine for the best players in the game and Pete Rose is 100% among the best ever in the game. Charlie Hustle was someone players should all aspire to be more like. Again ban him from coaching or managing, i get that. But he earned his right as a player to be in the HOF
@@brianreed1859 In this regard that whole era IMO is suspect. I'm certain there are dozens if not 100's of players that used during that era that we don't know about.
@@jayss10 - i agree. Just look at all the players that played 162 games almost every year and those could be your guilty parties
@hiram hacklesworth - so no steroid players but again what about the amphetamine players? Story is trainers were handing out amphetamines like they were vitamins
Be curious to she what ol' Johnny thinks of the Astros
Be more curious to hear Leo Durocher's opinion.
He's probably disgusted. Disgusted at anything that brings shame onto the game. Johnny Bench is old school in many ways.
Two completely unrelated offenses but I imagine he would have a problem with the Astros as well.
They should all be banned
I am am NO Longer Interested in Johnny Bench's "opinions"
If it could be proven that Rose ever - as a player or manager - made a decision or took an action that caused his team to lose in order to win a bet, then okay. Keep him out. But the fact he bet on games should not keep the man who collected more hits than anyone in MLB history out of the Hall.
The fact that he bet on the games he was managing is the rule and the rule states permanently ineligible. Why modify the rule after the fact to accommodate this guy? Why would any league want their players and managers betting on games just to get into some discussion about each decision in every game on whether he did that to win or not?
Read the Dowd Report. It's incredible.
I've been hearing that he only bet on his team to win games. Has this been proven or just came from Pete? Serious question if anybody knows.
@@melchorreyes5251 Unfortunately, they know for a fact he bet on the Reds to lose while he was manager. Read the Dowd Report. It's unbelievable.I still love Pete, but he shouldn't be inducted into the Hall of Fame.
@@melchorreyes5251 I don't know if that's true, but I would not be surprised. Rose was the most competitive guy ever to play the game, and he was all about winning. I just don't believe he would prioritize winning bets over winning ballgames. (BTW, I HATED the guy during his playing days. He was the type of player you loved if he was on your team and couldn't stand if he was the opponent. )
Johnny Bench brings up a good point that most of us had forgotten. Pete Rose had a chance to be forgiven by admitting to sports betting, and that he bet on Reds games, but he kept denying it, and claiming innocence. That’s why he’s not given a second chance to redeem himself, or get in the Hall.
If he was a wife beater he'd be in !!
He bet on winning. Who cares, bench is a pussy.
And I could care less if he "repents", the HoF shouldn't be about morality, it should be about baseball ability. I don't care if you murdered your family, if you have the most hits in MLB history, you deserve to get in. This isn't "who's the best person", it's "who's the best player".
That's not entirely true. I, and many others, are quite sure Bart Giamatti never intended for this to be carried out for so long, nor do I think he was intending to make an example out of Pete Rose. Supposedly they were working something out to smooth everything over. Unfortunately no one foresaw Giamatti dying less than a year after assuming commissionership, and also unfortunately, Bud Selig is an asshole.
Oh how wrong you are!@@kidzbop38isstraightfire92
Question: How many world series victories would Johnny Bench have without Pete Rose? Matter of fact, would Cincinnati have any without Pete? Let him in, tell the story.
The Reds have won two with him and three without him. The Red won as many World Series before Pete Rose was born as they did with him on the team.
Thats a stupid question. You could ask that about Joe Morgan or even Johnny himself. Its a team sport.
John is right!Bonds is best ever!
Well, the Big Red Machine was the most impressive team top to bottom ever assembled imo. HOF’ers Perez,Bench,Morgan. Best HR hitter of the time in Foster. Even the guys that weren’t great hitters were stellar defenders like Concepcion and Geronimo. Hard to say you take any of them out of the equation and you get the same result.
Babe Ruth played for 22 years but has only 7 rings. Why?
Rose did nothing to negatively detract from the sport! Such as cheating, drugs, alcohol, sexual or physical abuse like so many have been caught doing! Punishing him for gambling is tantamount to a cop giving you a speeding ticket for 5 mph over while a car full of drunk, high, popular kids speeds by doing 90 mph over! These powers that be i'm sure did much worse! He who is without sin cast the first stone! This needs to be undone! Rose is one of the GOATS!
Your missing the point, they wanted him to confess. If he did, he's in. He's a stubborn prick.
👍👍
Gambling on your own team is in fact CHEATING, and in a major way. The consensus at the time of the investigation was that he not only bet on his team to win, but also to lose. The investigation was ended as soon as it was about to tackle that question. He changed his story too many times after too many false denials; all which he had to flip-flop on once proof of guilt was shown. There's not a reason in this world to take him at his word on this matter.
If they put berry bonds in the baseball hall of fame then they should put Pete rose in the baseball hall of fame.
I’d like to hear Johnny Bench speak on his career, what a waste of time when he has to take questions on Pete Rose!
@James Ratliff Put Pete in the Hall where he belongs and it will stop. That is why these guys keep getting asked the same question because Pete was just that good.
Coat tails? That career?
@James Ratliff He would have been better off with large knees.
@James Ratliff "if he quit 6 seasons earlier" ... well that's not how averages work. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Bench should thank Pete not assail him. Pete started 6 years earlier than Bench and had 6 more productive years after Bench dropped off. When did Bench drop off? When Pete left the Reds!
@James Ratliff Cherry picking one year of stats is stupid. 99% of baseball fans take Rose over Bench's career. You, like Bench need to deal with it. I prefer Carlton Fisk at catcher....24 years in the league - double the productive years(20 vs 10) and not bashing his team mates over stuff that isn't his business.
"Tell your kids there are no rules" if Johnny's did something wrong he would be the first to ask the judge for a break. Its been 35 years. It was only gambling. If Pete would have chose alcohol, drugs or spousal abuse he would been first ballot HOF
Good one
That’s not the point. He broke the rules intentionally and got banned. Just like the Astros should have been
@@pratt17648 should have been but didn't cause mlb doesn't know how to make decisions
@@pratt17648 You realize you just contradicted yourself! Right? Rose did nothing to negatively detract from the sport! Such as cheating, drugs, alcohol, sexual or physical abuse!
Michael Shea but you’re not understanding that is was illegal and against the rules. To quote the Johnny Bench “Do you have kids? Go home and tell your kids that there’s no more rules”
I'm 44 now and a Texas Rangers/ Houston Astros fan but as a kid Pete rose was my favorite player. Every time I bought a pack of baseball cards his was the one I was looking for
Heh, seemed like every pack i got, he was in it. I never got the George brett card that i wanted (as a Royal he was my 2ndfavorite behind Quisenberry)
How the hell at 44 could Pete have been your favorite player? This guys last good year was 81..
Too bad I was stupid and taped all those Pete rose cards with masking tape in a photo album! Lol
Why is gambling the cardinal sin in baseball? It doesn't determine the outcome of games like steroids and what the Astros did.
Actually it could, and very likely would, influence the outcome of games. As just one example, let's say a player places a bet on a game (not one of his team's games). And let's say he's good friends with the pitcher on one of those teams. Let's say he bets $25K that his friend's team will lose that game. What's to stop him from calling his friend and telling him to groove some fastballs right down the middle of the plate to the other team's best hitters? Or what's to stop that pitcher from throwing a wild pitch with the bases loaded so that the other team wins? Or do a hundred other things to throw a game, with the understanding that he and his bettor friend will split the winnings?
Or let's say that player gambles on his own team and places large bets that his team will lose. He now has an incentive to throw the game. Make an error at a critical point in the game, or strike out on purpose, or fall down while running the base paths and get thrown out, or whatever.
Gambling on one's sport cannot be tolerated by a league. Too many players are unethical. Look at all the cheaters MLB has had, from Bonds, McGwire, Canseco, Palmerio, Clemens and others (steroids), to throwing doctored pitches (Niekro, Sutton, Perry, et al.). And God only knows how many dozens or hundreds more that have cheated and never gotten caught. And as you pointed out, the Astros.
I am 73 years old, I remember and saw play Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson, Roger Maris, Willie Mays, Willie Stargell, Vick Wertz, Roberto Clemente, Johnny Bench, and many more, all greats. The greatest ball player in my lifetime was Pete Rose. As a ball player, Pete had a great influence on me when I played. His dedication to the game, hustle, abilities put him at the top. He is in MY hall of fame!
Which is where he should be. In yours.
He was far from the greatest ballplayer among those you listed.
Probably one of the best all around players in the last 50 years has to be Rickey henderson. Gets no credit
Pete wasn't even the best player on his team much less in his own era.
ARoberto Clemente was a much better player than Rose.
No one is bigger than the integrity of the game, no one!
Integrity of the game? Hahahahaha. Cocaine scandals, Corked bats-Albert Belle, Chris Sabo, Steroids Bonds, Macgure, Sosa..., HCG Clemens, Pettit...., Astros hacking, owner collusion, billion dollar contracts....You lost me there brother.
@@68air
Well the steroid guys are not in. Betting on baseball destroys the games integrity..
2 things... Steroids do not help your hand eye coordination to hit the ball and if prescribed for an injury players can use them. 2nd... For all we know hank aaron and other players used steroids? We will never know because baseball didnt test for it back then. Anyways pete should be in the HOF he bet on his team to win not like he was shaving runs
@@jumpmasterpadre9335 can u prove they werent taking steroids b4 baseball tested for them? No, u cant! So.... Go fuck yourself
Johnny just going to forget everybody was using uppers supplied by the team in his day. Integrity of the game is a joke.
Then take out Cobb, Ruth, and everyone that played before 1950 95% of all players where drunks. Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker did get banned from baseball in 1926 for gambling but went to Commissioner Landis that he would tell the reporter who else gamble's on baseball and his ban was lifted
Wait: are you saying drinking is against the rules of eligibility of baseball? Drinking is cheating? Strange. First time I ever heard that theory. As for Cobb and Speaker gambling, Rule 21 was put in place in 1927. The 'death penalty' for gambling did not exist in 1919 (when Cobb and Speaker bet on their team, in a series that they heard the other team was throwing). When Jackson and company were banned, it was NOT because of gambling. It was due to what was believed to be conspiring with gambling elements to throw the series.
In other words, your whatabout... has no merit here. Rose knowingly and repeatedly violated a rule that is on the wall in every single clubhouse in the majors. He was a degenerate gambler and degenerate person, and is paying the price for breaking the rules.
@@bauerj3398 what rose did was not as bad as what the white Sox did when the rigged the World Series but yet they are in the mlb is a joke at this point
@@The_king567 What? The White Sox are not in the HOF. Joe Jackson is a top 20 player all time, certainly a better player than Rose, and he is not in. This despite the fact that that he never attended the meetings to fix the Series, is disputed to have ever particpated in the fix other than accepting $5000, and was the best player in the Series.
As for Rose, he is just a scumbag whose lying never stopped. Keeps adjusting his story when it becomes apparent nobody believes him. He willfully and repeatedly broke rule with the express punishment of a lifetime ban, and people feel bad for him because he is banned? Eff him.
@@bauerj3398 yea joes not in but he should be and there are players from the white Sox that are in the hof like Eddie Collins,Ray Schalk,Red Faber etc
@@The_king567 And Collins, Schalk,and Faber were not implicated in any way in the Black Sox Scandal, so what is your point of bringing them up?
Hilarious Johnny Bench remarks starting at around the 2:10 mark! So very true!!!!! LOL about all jobs!
bench spelled it out.....and pete was my idol.he blew every chance he got.stop blaming everyone else.facts.
I was an Athletics and Phillies fan in the 1970s. I hated Pete Rose with a passion, until he played for the Phillies. He made Mike Schmidt a better player, and the 1980 Phillies, would not have won a World Series without him. I am also strongly in agreement with you. Pete Rose is a typical "gambling addict". He is selfish, and a liar.
@J Wil I don't think Pete Rose has a disease. He's just a lying, cheating gambler. And he got caught.
you really believe that b.s. story? lol
What I don't understand is, was it a one-time chance and now a life sentence, or is it mainly about confessing and asking forgiveness?
@@JMAdams its years of him being in denial
He never bet on his team. He bet either on the over and under or the spread. He had control of the game to effect the results. Doesn't matter how great 1 person is no one is bigger then the game and it's integrity.
@bryan joiner right. You would watch a sporting event if you thought it was rigged. Allow 1 man to get away with it then you have to allow everyone.
I was his caddie for a few years and let me tell you when they say be careful of meeting your heroes, they were right.
Caddy to Bench or Rose?
Yes
I grew up in cincy in the 60s-70s. Pete was one of the best ballplayers of all time, but not a very good human. I hope he gets his life together.
Well , he never answered you , so I guess he was lying @@TheBobbybbc
As a HUGE Cardinals and Ted Simmons fan, I have nothing but respect for Johnny Bench.
Both Ted Simmons & Johnny Bench played by the rules & men of high integrity who excelled on the field. Pete excelled but has little integrity and placed himself above the Rules. He only belongs in the Hall of SHAME.
what did Bench have to say about Barry Bonds and all the other drug enhancement cheaters?
Im sure those guys wont ever get in either
Like rose said " bench wouldn't be in the HOF if not for me"!
What about Joe Morgan who doesn't believe Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame. Did Pete Rose make him a Hall of famer? Fuck off.
Bench is pretty much unanimously considered the greatest catcher of all time. Not sure what Pete Rose had to do with that
Nonsense! Without Rose, Bench wouldn't have hit 389 home runs? or amassed 2048 career hits? wouldn't have 2 MVP awards(1970-1972)? Without Bench, the Big Red Machine wouldn't have rolled through the 70s, imho.
Oh Bullshit. Bench is one of the top 2 or 3 catchers of all time. He is in the Hall, and Charlie Dirtbag has nothing to do with it.
Rose probably gave him a few more Rbis that is all.
Bench got a divorce and his ex wife was asked about Bench. She said "Johnny Bench may be a hall of fame baseball player but in the bedroom he is a minor leaguer"
@William Gullett uhhh okay?? I don’t see how that’s relevant.
@@TheMW2informer its not, its just a quote about Bench
So she's a bitter bitch. What's new?
I've heard that cheap shot from numerous women so many times I think they pretty much all say that about their exes.
@@onemoremisfit I'm sure other women use it but only the ones whose ex husband's are in the Hall of Fame. Otherwise it wouldnt make sense
It’s the Hall of FAME, not the Hall of HONOR, Johnny. He serves to be there as a player. Cooperstown isn’t about enshrining a bunch of upstanding great guys who never sinned.
I love Bench, but good point Sax.
Not a good point, he broke the rules and paid for it. Lesson to learn in life.
So let’s be sure and keep him out of the Hall of Fame, which is where we enshrine players for their playing achievements. He laid down bets, he didn’t change how pitches were thrown and affect the fielding of balls. He earned his accolades and deserves to be in the hall. If we employ your rule, Eric, then if we get a speeding ticket our drivers license should be revoked. Ease up bud, it’s a game and he was one of the best at playing it and deserves to be in the Hall. Johnny B is just the grumpy old man sitting on his porch spraying kids with a hose and yelling, “get off my lawn!”
@@SaxMan426 He made bets on his team as a manager. That calls into question whether his rosters and pitching rotation were determined by the best overall long term winning strategy for the season, or the best strategy for winning games where he had bet huge sums of money and might lose his shirt. There is no place for that kind of dirt in baseball. Rose is dumb as a bag of rocks, but that's no excuse for his behavior. He had a chance to show contrition and dig himself out of his hole, but he thinks he is bigger than the MLB and that the MLB revolves around him.
@@ericnieves9884 Since I observe stuff in real time, if Pete Rose knew what he knew now back in 1989, he would of admitted he bet on games. I think the punishment is harsh, but running into a sport's writer years ago, I appreciate how important are stats.
On another hand, Floyd Mayweather bets on boxing all the time. He betted on himself and never lost.
Johnny Bench ... Go home and tell your kids Harold Baines is in the HOF. More disgraceful.
hiram hacklesworth Considering baseball-reference.com knows WAY more about this than I do, NO, he doesn’t.
hiram hacklesworth Rose belongs in the HOF. Baines does not.
hiram hacklesworth Baseball Reference says Rose should be in. Baseball Reference says Baines isn’t close.
hiram hacklesworth go to baseball-refernence.com
Black Ink monitor
Gray Ink monitor
HOF
JAWS
all of them reach the conclusions I stated regarding Rose = yes & Baines = no
How did baines get in
Two point here.
1. Pete only broke the MLB rule, which meant banishment ffrom MLB. That rule had nothing to do with the Baseball Hall of Fame. The Hall of Fame is not part of MLB. It is a separate enity. It is a museum of our national pasttime. After the fact, MLB pressured the Hall of Fame committee to make a rule, which never exist before, to banish anyone who bet on the sport. That speaks loudy to a concertted effort by MLB's executive branch to be nothing less than vindictive toward Rose.
2. Enshrinement isn't just about awarding the honor to the player. It is also about rewarding the fans. The fans deserve to have MLB's all-time hits leader in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
I rarely see anyone mention that the year before Pete would have been on the ballot MLB made the HoF change their rules in order to keep him off the ballot.
The fact that Shoeless Joe Jackson was never put in the Hall of Fame indicates that the HoF considers a gambling ban of MLB to include the HoF.
@@PFB1994 Jackson wasn't banned for gambling. He was banned for supposedly taking a $5000 payment to throw the World Series. The HoF selection rules were modified, after Rose got his ban, to prevent the induction of anyone on MLB's permanently ineligible list.
@@rosssmith5963 Is there really any difference between a gambler paying you $5,000 or owing a gambler $50,000? Rose could have way more impact on the outcome as he was the manager of a team, not just one player.
@@PFB1994 Point well taken. The thing that gets me about Jackson and the Black Sox scandal is that he was found not guilty in his criminal trial. Kenesaw said he didn't care what the courts decided he was banning him anyways.
I love Pete. But Johnnys quote about going to your kids and saying there’s no more rules hits hard and he’s exactly right
thats a petty emotional ploy. none of that changes Rose's staggering accomplishments on the field.
@@RedroomStudios I don't care about his stats. Actually, nno one really does. His name and his legacy are that of a liar and a cheat.
Seriously, you can't bring up his name without the discussion going to his dishonesty. And no stat line can change THAT.
@@charlesm7589 "no one cares about his stats"... oh really? then why on every discussion about him on youtube videos are the opinions split about 50/50? you are free to disagree with me and others but dont try to blow smoke up my ass that I'm the only one with this opinion.
Let him in he served his sentence. Can't forget how great his talent was and the records he accomplished...
Thing is, he didn’t serve his sentence. He had the chance and decided not to take it. He decided to take a chance, was found guilty, and now has to accept the consequences of his actions, including the lifetime ban because he broke the one rule that is not to be broken in baseball.
If you are saying someone should be above the rules then the next time Mike Trout questions a strike call even if video shows it to be a strike, should we change it to a ball because Mike Trout is the greatest player today? Yes, I know the previous sentence is ridiculous but the rules apply to all, no matter how great they are.
Pete Rose lied for years. He has shown no remorse and only apologized and admitted to what he did when it became obvious MLB would not budge or give in, as well they should not. No one is above the rules.
his sentence is a lifetime ban so no he hasent served his sentence
@@GetRidOfCivilAssetForfeiture You rule! I don't know how people don't see what you see. You make perfect sense.
@@assassin415 I couldn't have said it better myself. He is lucky that baseball even gave him any parole hearings for what he did.
If were Pete I would accept privately and decline openly on social media and national news , then walk off into the sun set. 😎
Let's keep this simple: if behavior harmful to the game is enough to keep someone out of the Hall of Fame, Cooperstown would be nearly empty.
No it wouldn't. Rose is a special case, gambling crook that he is.
@@wackojacko3534 Good evening. Babe Ruth burned the candle at both ends, partying with prostitutes and cheating multiple times on his first wife, once punched an umpire, and was protected by the press. Charles Comiskey owned the White Sox and spent that time cheating and short changing his players, thus encouraging the Black Sox scandal. Kenesaw Mountain Landis, the first commissioner of baseball, strongly resisted integration and fought hard to maintain the color barrier. Ty Cobb stomped a heckler to death, attacked a black groundskeeper and his wife. Behind the statistics and history, a great many hall-of-famers we're not so positive.
M Coleman
Agree. And, I’m sure there were other gamblers as well. They just weren’t caught.
@@wackojacko3534 wacko is clueless.
So cheating on a financial and unethical level is bad but cheating on a physically muscle enhancing level is ok. Good to know that's the message to send to kids.
see thats where they lose me on keeping pete out of hall of fame. so 30 years now of being banned, but they wouldve let him in if he would have signed a piece of paper
Joe Jackson is over 100 years ago, and the case against him is far flimsier than Pete's. I can't see them ever letting Rose in if they still won't consider Jackson.
@@davidjorgensen877 shoeless joe jackson hasn’t been the all time hits leader for the last 35 years either
@@spence7985 He would have been if he wasn't thrown out of baseball during his playing days. Even Pete Rose said Joe Jackson was a better player than himself. Regardless, Pete saw what they did to Joe but Pete was too thickheaded to think he'd never get caught and he knew what the penalty was going to be. When the time comes, he and Joe can talk all about it and how they disgraced the game and the one thing that they both loved.
@@roland7584 here’s the difference between Joe and Pete. Pete was retired from playing. Joe did it while CURRENTLY playing
He was still managing, and the investigation never went into Pete's playing days, although they had evidence that he did bet while he was a player/manger but they never went into investigating that evidence because they already had enough evidence on him as a manager and the same rule applied...bet on your team and you're going to be banned for life.
I bet it just eats him up that even though he’s in the HOF.. his former teammate who is banned for life will forever be more iconic than he could have ever dreamed to be.
No more rules, when baseball knowingly juiced it's players then tried to act like that wasn't the case. Pete Rose bet on himself to WIN, he wasn't shaving runs or throwing games he was performing and doing it well. Not a damn thing wrong with that!
Lefty Rosenthal agrees
@@KoolT and now with Caesars and the white Sox official partners. No hypocrisy at all there
@@KoolT LOL..exactly right
He always owed his bookies money. We don't know how his bets affected the games. Only he knows. The only thing we do know is there was a rule in place that if you bet on your team, you will be permanently banned. If he ever missed a game where he didn't bet on the Reds, that's basically a bet against them. Maybe the night before he tried to win so badly because he did have a bet that he sacrificed the win for the next game which is tainting the game. That's why players in control of games should never be able to bet on games. Thank you MLB for doing the right thing.
@@roland7584 MLB now officially in cahoots with casinos and players with asterisks next to their name in Cooperstown but Charlie Hustle still excluded. All sorts of right thing going on there👍
Why block his face with the microphone? Move the mic or move the camera.
was thinking the same thing. This is RIDICULOUS. It really made my blood boil...i think they do it on purpose to annoy us.
He never bet against his team;
His effort was never questioned,
He had over 4000 hits.
But you can not bet on baseball. Wait, what, everyone can?
Not while in the league
@@fredwright5954 so true, i was looking past the red elephant in the room!
it doesn't matter if your betting against or for your team, both are bad. If your betting for your team to win, you might adjust your rotation to win that game, so in effect you are affecting other games by trying to win the one you have money on.
Betting to win and coaching to win are the same damn thing if done for your own team. Pete Rose was screwed.
@@donkosky Your theory is complete babble. Of course he's going to try to win the game bet or not. Lmao.
Unquestionably PETE ROSE deserves to be in the HOF. He was one of the best in history - this is just a fact. PUT HIM IN!!!
He bet on the games he was managing.....and he never owned up to it...so no, he doesn't deserve the Hall...you serious?
@@phillipbelk3528 I don't care. He PLAYED at a level of greatest not achieved by virtually all who ever played.
Obviously, none of you know why Pete isn't in baseball or the hall of fame
@@hughkerins3151 Snobs.
@@sms9106 Fact-Pete bet on baseball, Fact-Pete didn't want to be held accountable for his misdeeds. Fact-Pete didn't want the findings of the investigation made public. Fact Pete with a lawyer signed document(s) banning himself from baseball (lifetime ban). Pete doesn't deserve to be in HOF because of his own stupidity.
These guys have had beef since "The Pete and Johnny Show". Johnny never liked how Pete was so beloved in his hometown.
I was as big of Pete fan as there was in the 70's when I was a teen. Now I see Rose as a fake and a phoney. He cheated on his wife, his taxes and violated the most sacred rule of the game he claimed to love. I think Johnny probably saw him as a fake long before others and that is part of the rift.
@@hazelwood55 You’re right about that!!!!
@@hazelwood55 what does taxes and his personal life have to do with baseball?
So its ok for the Astros to cheat keep the world series, not get fined or suspended, and still play? He bet on his team to win, he didnt throw games away. So now i ask you should the astro players who participated in the scandal be allowed to play?
@@keonipauole1828 My comment pertained only to Rose and Bench's relationship.
@@hazelwood55 For the HOF, all that should count was that he was real on the field. He was a key player on one of the greatest baseball teams ever assembled.
who need a friend like Johnny Bench?
A straight shooter is always helpful
exactly. what a POS. Used to love the guy as a BB player. He could have backed a "friend"/teammate and gave legit reasons why he should get in but he choses to act like a holier than thou azzhat and throw Pete under the bus. What a jerk. I'm sure all his former wives feel the same.
So, he should lie?
No One
@@pb12661 he kinda always came off that way to me.
If it were up to Bench, nobody else would get into the Hall after the year 2000! I remember when my guy Ryne Sandberg got in, it came out that Bench was opposed to him as well. I like Bench but he loves his own potato chips if you know what I mean..
Does Johnny Bench tell his kids that if they break the rules, their punishment should last forever?
Not all rules have punishments that last forever. This rule that Pete broke actually does have that punishment and it was clearly written for Rose to read every day and he definitely saw that rule more than any other baseball player in history since he played so many games. It's quite possible he never saw the rule because he had his head down while walking into the clubhouse checking out the betting lines for all the games that day.
Pete ( "Charlie Hustle") Rose, was one of the greatest players in his generation ! Him and the "Big Red Machine" were loved by their fans, and feared by all the other teams ! In the hall or not, Pete Rose will still be loved !!
So I guess Johnny and every other HOFer is a straight shooter. Hmmmmmm
No they sure aren't, Pete belongs in the hall Bench is such a hypocrite
It aint a crime if you dont get caught .
@@daveyboy_ Then they should call it the Hall of Guys Who Didn't Get Caught.
@@CrazyAboutVinylRecords didnt get caught doing what ?
bench is a phony.
Pete Rose was a great thug. The same aberrant personality that contributed to his playing prowess also cost him his Hall of Fame hopes.
Yup, pride goeth before a fall.
I'm not sure "thug" is the best description when referring to Pete Rose.
@@pb12661 Well, I am, so are we clear now?
@@pb12661 It may not be but the use of words in a conversation are always proportionate to an individuals access and understanding of language and vocabulary skills.
Hall of fame for Pete!!!!!!
Whose a bigger disgrace to the game? The guy who made bets on games he was actively involved in and lied about it, or the stupid defenders of that kind of behavior?
It will never happen, besides, Rose did Agree to a Lifetime Ban, and not to mention he served time in Prison for Tax Evasion!!!!
It don’t matter if he gets in... he will always be talked about.. you made him infamous... on top of his 4K plus hits....
What would I tell my kids? If there was one athlete in baseball that I would want them to model their intensity, effort and love for the game after it would be Pete Rose.
I assume we should be ok with the college point shaving scandals mover the years as well?
I would suggest Stan Musial as a model. Just as dedicated as Rose but he has integrity and class, which Rose didn't think mattered.
@@wyldebyll3089 Oh get over yourself lol. The man deserves to be in the Hall. End of story.
@@wyldebyll3089 Point taken. Nonetheless, I could watch video of Rose’s highlights and hear him talk about baseball for hours.
Then your values are warped. Pete Rose is an example of bad moral character.
I'm getting this feeling that the HOF club is full of aging prissy juveniles.
No, the Hall just needs to be free of those banned from the Hall for life for gambling on games they took part in.
If Pete isn't in the hall of fame, then a whole bunch of others, for a variety of reasons, shouldn't be in the hall of fame either
What other breakers of the #1 rule in baseball are in the Hall?
Bench and Rose hated each other so no surprise to hear Bench say what he did.
Well, that and the fact that Rose is a degenerate gambler and liar.
I never liked Pete Rose but he IS a Hall of Famer.
You know what Pete Rose achievements where as a player he was no longer a player when he gambled
Really? Show us.
baseballhall.org
Pete Rose was selected to the All Star game at 6 different positions. Only player ever!
@@martinw28703 yes, he was versatile, so?
@Randummm it’s funny how you can use steroids and cheat that way but when you bet on baseball you suddenly don’t honor baseball as America? Gtfo bruh They’re legit murders and other people that are in the hof but Rose isn’t because he bet on baseball. I’m not condoning his actions or acting as if he didn’t do anything wrong but we let people that have legit committed felonies in why not let Rose have a a 2nd chance? Seems pretty hypocritical to me
The gambling and the lying (that came afterward BTW) doesn't in any way diminish the numbers Rose put up. Nor does it negate how he played the game - magnificently I might add. He belongs.
'Great job and comment. That's Bob Costa's comment (who I can't stand) when he said about Pete, "someone got those 4,200+ hits!" So yes, of course Pete belongs in the HOF.
@@peanutsmcgonnagle2458 Yes indeed!
@@peanutsmcgonnagle2458 He got those 4,256 hits because he kept playing LONG after he'd become a detriment to his team. NEGATIVE wins contributed to his teams during those last six years while he egotistically chased Cobb. His hits "record" is a farce.
The problem here is that Pete was still eligible for the HOF when he accepted the ban from MLB. Giamatti believed it should be left up to the sportswriters. Two years later and after Giamatti's death, the HOF changed the rules to exclude Pete.
So every HOF pitcher who ever threw a spitball or scuffed a ball during their career should be removed from the HOF. Right?
After all, cheating is cheating, and rules are rules, right?
I can name dozens of HOF players who cheated during their career. And the HOF committee knew they were cheaters when they voted them in.
Look at Johnny Bench’s character: He urged his then-wife Vickie Chesser to accept $25,000 to pose nude in HUSTLER magazine.
Such a Hall of Fame husband.
Such a great representative for baseball.
Such a role model for kids.
Bench rather have all these baseball players that used Steroids in the hall of fame then Rose be in for gambling.yes i know what rose did but still he deserves the hall of fame
You have a link to Bench supporting Bonds, Mac, Sosa, etc. for the Hall?
Hypocrisy on Johnny Bench part..
@@juanccifuentes7033 Why? did Bench bet on baseball?
@@bauerj3398 He actually dident, but he was not as good as Pete Rose, he was jealous of him.
@@bauerj3398 plus the hipocricy in baseball is hilarious, loom at the astros, they got caught cheating n kept their trophy, and i can assure you 1 or 2 of those players will get in..
Johnny is a grouchy old man- Pete was a better player and he knows it!
Pete Rose went out of his way to ruin it for himself, Bench didn't.
@@JacoZawinul not only that but the scandal went down right as Bench was being inducted into the HoF
This has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with ethics. Pete Rose was the dumbass who dug his own grave. F him.
Waaaaay better player kids know who Pete Rose is, but who's johnny.
Always loved and admired everything Johnny Bench did on the field. But whether he wants to admit it or not, Pete Rose was a major contributor to his Hall of Fame career.
Johnny Bench you might be a legend but as a life long 24 year old baseball fan I still had to look you up to see who you was…..I’ve known who Pete Rose is my whole life, based on that statement alone I think we can see who really deserve the HOF
People across the nation don't understand that Pete and Johnny didn't really get along. That's why he's saying this
Im thinking that must be the reason cuz i just saw a interview where he says barry bonds should get in lol
Lied forever, until he wanted to sell a 24.95 book.
fuck em !! NOBODY is BIGGER then the game !!!
Oh rub some Blue Emu on it John.
Harland Waters ...Johnny certainly is quite the hemorrhoid.
@Harland Waters
Your name sb Jack Cass.
@@nicks7690
Yeah. You're Nick Sphincter.
TheBatugan77 👈🏻 look at this Harland... Johnny Bench’s hemorrhoid can type!
Nick S lmao Nick Lol 😂
More than his accomplishments is how he played the game…..there’s those guys that just bring it and Pete brought it
A great listen and watch. What a Legend who is absolutely right here.
Life-long Cardinals fan here. Pete is in my HOF.
Me too, also Roger Maris!
You don't have a hall of fame.
I personally don't like Pete Rose. He was always a "Look at me guy" instead of a true team player. And of course, he's guilty of gambling. That said, there are ballplayers who are in the Hall of Fame who've done much the same, and even worse. We know about White Supremacists like Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, etc. Cap Anson was a pedophile... marrying a child who was only 13 yrs old when he was 23! The list is endless. You mean to tell me those guys deserve to be in the "Hall" and not Pete? Because if you're going to debate to me about the integrity of the game, then we'd have to remove a fair share of those players already in!
You're arguing apples and oranges. MLB doesn't police player's actions outside the game. You can question whether it should or not, but that's a different debate. Pete's transgression stands apart from the others you listed because it was a direct violation of league rules. Like JB said, do rules matter or don't they? Without them, there is no game.
Dude didn't even pay his gambling debts.
You’re right about that, and Not to mention he served time in Prison for Tax Evasion!!!!
I can understand Bench's spite for Rose. It must be truly humiliating for Bench to have to talk about Pete Rose so much.
Host: My next guest played catcher in the major leagues for many years. Hello Johnny Bench, welcome to my show - it's so good of you to come tonight
Bench: Thank you for having me, I'm glad to be here.
Host: Johnny, what are your thoughts about Pete Rose?
It must be humiliating to not talk about yourself, but someone people absolutely despise.
All of the accomplishments and the only thing Bench talks about is Rose's betting on baseball......... Not steroids, not cocaine, not manipulation of the game, not the strike, not the B.S. home run derbies MLB has every few years when they quit drug testing. No, it's only about Rose betting on baseball.. Rose must have slept with Bench's wife or something.....
If all human beings aren't allowed in the BASEBALL Hall of Fame on the merit of their PLAY, then none of them should be. A GOOD criminal is excellent at covering tracks. A good human, by appearances, too. Even in the HUMAN Hall of Fame, the best & worst must be respresented. These things aren't for us to judge. If there ISN'T a heaven, we'll never really know what was real & good. We can only go on what we KNOW, and the best serial killers die free men. Honouring living legends is a futile, unfair, inadequate illusion. What I know, and others, about Johnny Bench I'll keep to myself & take to the grave. You all know what you did. Don't think someone else doesn't. Nanny cams have been around since before you were born. Heat sensitive satellite camera technology too. Stop the crucifixion. Stop the judgement. Put down the stone. Pull out the board. Or be judged by your own standard. Pete's in or no one is. My HOF is the one that matters to me...it's got all of them in there. The bad THINGS they did, I may point out to my kids as a warning & teaching moment, for their growth. Any other attitude or spirit is not useful or helpful. It's just hypocrisy. Bench may not be there without Rose. We'll never know.
Johnny Bench is the greatest catcher, ever. Without Rose he’d still be in the HOF, easily. Rose was a great, great player but that Big Red Machine would still have won (harder to do but they would have done it). Rose is too stubborn.
@@daveokeefe31We'll never know...
And yet not one Astro player is banned for life.
Pete didn't cheat or bet against his team, its time he's in the HOF
So true! Illegal to bet with your team is wrong??? Pete HOF!
I dont know how betting on yourself to win is worse than literally rigging the game into your favor. Not to mention all the cheaters, criminals, and steroid users in the hall of fame. But no, being confident enough to bet on your own team to win is somehow worse. The MLB is so ass backwards.
Love the Astros, all haters also suffer from TDS.....Dusty miss ya my friend..
Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame! There was nobody better nor anyone who played harder. He gave everything to the game. He was also so entertaining.
1. Yes Pete Rose does deserve to be in the Hall of Fame as his stats and accomplishments more than justify that.
2. The HOF simply needs to note his suspension for betting on games as part of his HOF plaque.
3. Even players with criminal records belong in the Hall if their stats warrant it, because even great players have stories beyond baseball that also need to be told, not hidden.
4. Fans of the sport and the HOF itself suffers more than Rose by not seeing his bust, his legacy and history in the Hall.
5. The Hall now lacks credibility without some of it's most "Famous" players in it, and has been reduced to becoming "The Hall of the Self-Righteous Voter".
If you bet on baseball, you are banned for life. No exceptions. No second chances. What part of that don't some people get?
Yeah & MLB happily partners with gambling entity DraftKings every season now! What part of that don't YOU get! MLB is a shame thanks to Selig/Manfred
@@paolo-n2000 , But players, coaches and managers are STILL NOT allowed to bet on baseball under penalty of a lifetime ban. Can't you see how damaging it would be to baseball if we let those so close to the game bet on the games?