Greatest what? He had a chance, the FBI said they'd drop his back taxes and get the NJ mobsters to forgive his $500,000 debt to them, but Rose said no, he was too big. Giamatti dropped the hammer on him, he went to prison for tax evasion and was banned forever from MLB. Worse than that, to pay his debt to the Mob he financed cocaine deals. Here is the Commissioner's report, long read. www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/03/21/rose-investigator-pete-belong-game/25112355/ Everybody bent over backwards to save the face of baseball, he refused. Do you you support that?
Mountain Fisher I never said he was a hero, I never said he wasn’t a gambler, I never said he conducted himself like an angel. Really I’m no big Rose fan. Regardless of his actions he is still one of the “greatest” hitters to ever live. He played baseball to win. There is nothing he can do or anyone can say to deny this.
Johnny Bench brings up a good point that most of us had forgotten. Pete Rose had a chance to be forgiven by admitting to sports betting, and that he bet on Reds games, but he kept denying it, and claiming innocence. That’s why he’s not given a second chance to redeem himself, or get in the Hall.
And I could care less if he "repents", the HoF shouldn't be about morality, it should be about baseball ability. I don't care if you murdered your family, if you have the most hits in MLB history, you deserve to get in. This isn't "who's the best person", it's "who's the best player".
That's not entirely true. I, and many others, are quite sure Bart Giamatti never intended for this to be carried out for so long, nor do I think he was intending to make an example out of Pete Rose. Supposedly they were working something out to smooth everything over. Unfortunately no one foresaw Giamatti dying less than a year after assuming commissionership, and also unfortunately, Bud Selig is an asshole.
They should really induct Joe Jackson posthumously. I know he may have had knowledge of the Black Sox scandal, but the dude hit .375 for the series, had the most RBI's, and even hit the only HR in the series. He maintained his innocence in his career, and at this point, I really think it's long overdue to enshrine Jackson in the HOF.
“When a Cincinnati player would bat a ball out in my territory I’d muff it if I could-that is, fail to catch it. But if it would look too much like crooked work to do that, I’d be slow and make a throw to the infield that would be short. My work netted the Cincinnati team several runs that they never would have had if we had been playing on the square.” -sworn testimony by Joe Jackson
and more....“And I’m going to give you a tip. A lot of these sporting writers that have been roasting me have been talking about the third game of the World’s Series being square. Let me tell you something. The eight of us did our best to kick it and little Dick Kerr won the game by his pitching. Because he won it, those gamblers double crossed us because we double crossed them.”
@kidzbop38isstraightfire92 If you were a model citizen and good neighbor right up until the caught you robbing a charity fund, do you think they should give you the keys to the city and make you Man of the Year after you serve your time?
@@pneulancer *Rose* is a douchebag AND a future HOF member. He won't be the first. That dis-honor has to go to a member of the first HOF class, *Ty Cobb.*
@ Not a HOF member by any shot. If you want to see what gambling does, then look no further than Shoeless Joe Jackson, who it was proven DID NOT bet on baseball, but is banned from the hall. His crime was knowing it was happening and not speaking out about it. Bench is right. Pete is a dumbshit who had a chance to "manup" to what he did, but chose the stupid way to go, following his moron lawyer's advice. If Gamblin' Pete gets in Joe Jackson goes in first, since at least he didn't do what Gamblin" Pete ADMITTED to doing.
@Mr.Brenman21 Obviously it isn't just my opinion. Your argument is that if someone else gets away with cheating then MLB and the HOF should let every cheater from then forward off the hook as well. Inconsistency in the application of the law has been part of human history from the beginning. The solution is not to throw out all enforcement, but to strive to do better. But inconsistency aside, Bonds, Sosa, McGuire et al, cheated. No one made them do it. How are they victims? How about the pitchers who's stats were made artificially worse by facing them? How about Hank Aaron's record being basically stolen? How about other clean hitters who didn't get to compete on a level playing field?
This is an important point made by Bench. Gambling got him suspended, but his lack of contrition and continued lies made the ban permanent. I was 10 at the time of the scandal. 10 year old me thought it was all a misunderstanding or that he was framed because the great Pete Rose said he "didn't bet on baseball or Cincinnati Red's baseball". Then decades later he comes out with a book to make money off the fact that he did bet on baseball. And this followed years after making money playin the part of a martyr... No. You don't get to get into the HOF. It's not the initial lie or sin. It is the continued failure to make amends except for when it was in his own self interest
@James Ratliff It would be nothing like Kareem. Kareem never disgraced his sport so why would he not be in the NBA Hall of Fame? The only thing in the NBA you can compare Pete Rose to that would make sense is Tim Donaghy.
@James Ratliff Baseball has integrity for keeping Rose and Bonds out thus proving they can't be compared to wrestling. Rose committed the cardinal sin and baseball already had a poster boy if anyone else tried it. Everyone knew what the punishment would be and it was clearly written. It wouldn't have surprised me if someone that was barely on a roster tried to bet, but the hit king doing it just proves how arrogant he is and to deny it for years rather than take the deals that were handed to him even before the investigation makes it one of the worst stories in the hi story of all sports. He could have avoided going to jail if he just took the deal, but somehow he thought he could lie and deny it forever. I guarantee if he made the hall 5 years afterwards, he would have never confessed to anything. He still denies things that the evidence clearly points out. Keeping him on the permanently ineligible list is the only decision in the last 40 years that baseball has gotten right.
@James Ratliff I'm caught up in the fact that this was a Pete Rose discussion about him being banned from baseball for gambling on the Reds. The investigation didn't span all the years of his career. Once they could validate the claims made by his bet runners, they didn't go much further than that. However, years later it was discovered that they had evidence Rose did in fact bet on baseball while he was a player manager. Regardless, whether his playing days were over or not, he broke Rule 21 and he knew what the punishment would be. He will never get into the Hall, but Kareem proudly sits in the NBA Hall of Fame for not breaking any rules.
@James Ratliff It's wrestling. Who cares? The whole thing is a total scripted show. Major sports can't script Willie Mays' catch in the World Series. They can't script Derek Jeter's play against the A's. Wrestling is all scripted, all steroids, all made up. Vince McMahon was the freaking owner when he was "just the announcer". That's how scripted the entire thing is. They are great at it. Are the wrestlers athletes. Sure they are but comparing their Hall of Fame to anything else is quite ridiculous. There is NO softening towards Pete. He still denies some of the stuff he did even though it's all documented so there's no commissioner in their right mind that will bend on him. The Hall would have to modify their rule because MLB is definitely not changing their stance in our lifetime.
I grew up a Dodgers fan and I EFFING HATED the Reds during the 70s, but I and a lot of my friends had a ton of respect for Johnny Bench. He was the greatest.
@@sms9106 Fact-Pete bet on baseball, Fact-Pete didn't want to be held accountable for his misdeeds. Fact-Pete didn't want the findings of the investigation made public. Fact Pete with a lawyer signed document(s) banning himself from baseball (lifetime ban). Pete doesn't deserve to be in HOF because of his own stupidity.
Lmao the second they mention or start to mention Hall of Fame, guys like Bench already start rolling their eyes because they know where the interview is going, especially about Rose.
@@RedroomStudios Bench was an honorable player who did nothing to hurt the game. Pete Rose not so much and he feels baseball owes him something. Grew up in Cincinnati watching these guys play and would always run into them around town all the time. Pete Rose was the only one who would never sign anything the rest of them would sit and chat and sign whatever you wanted. Pete Rose is an ass hat of a person.
@@billsmith6309 so you are using your own personal animus against him as the measuring stick... I dont care about him as a person. the HOF is about recognizing accomplishments on the field. the guy is the all time hits leader in the game. for him to not be represented in the Hall is beyond ridiculous. and if I was Rose I would think the game owed me something too with the stats he has.
Does it really matter anymore if he's in the HoF or not? Not being in is more of a boom for him than if he was. Things have been so watered down lately with some of the recent inductees (good players, not great, who just got in) that being in the HoF is devalued.
I am 73 years old, I remember and saw play Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson, Roger Maris, Willie Mays, Willie Stargell, Vick Wertz, Roberto Clemente, Johnny Bench, and many more, all greats. The greatest ball player in my lifetime was Pete Rose. As a ball player, Pete had a great influence on me when I played. His dedication to the game, hustle, abilities put him at the top. He is in MY hall of fame!
He never bet on his team. He bet either on the over and under or the spread. He had control of the game to effect the results. Doesn't matter how great 1 person is no one is bigger then the game and it's integrity.
Rush Ron The most important thing to remember if your spouse is addicted to anything is not to hang on and hit rock bottom with them. If she slips back into the addiction you have to let her go. Make that very clear to her. I was an addict for almost 20 years and any kindness or sympathy I was shown I took advantage of the person. It’s what we do.
@@itslildaryl7426 Juiced up batters were going against juiced up pitchers it was an a messed up way kind of fair for them. It was not fair for the players like Chipper Jones who people believe never did anything to enhance their performance. I am not a Braves fan at all but damn if chipper had been on the juice who knows what the records would be
He bet on games including on the Reds while he was even a Manager for the Reds, come on folks, he stays out of the Cooperstown. Sure he was was an all-time great, would have loved him on my team, most would agree, just not in the Hall of Fame. I can't believe after 33 years we are still debating this, it is over - this is about the integrity of the game. Besides all this, I wish health and happiness, he is 81, God Bless him.
Integrity? Tell me the player or manager who earns a salary so meager that he has to gamble and fix games? No one needs to protect the integrity of baseball due to gambling violations. Not now days. This is insider grudge-politics, and it stinks.
Integrity of the game? LoL. Do you have any idea how many games were called because of rain and made official? Home teams won 70% of those in the 50's and 60's? How bout that integrity?
As a Padre fan... or even just a baseball fan in general, I admire Tony Gwynn a LOT more than Rose. Tony would NEVER bet on baseball and he didn't do steroids either. He had so much more integrity than that. My admiration for Pete dropped by half after the gambling fiasco.
I agree with Johnny 100%. I've been saying this for years. Had Rose come right out and admitted what he did and humbled himself and said he had a gambling problem all would have been forgiven and he'd have been in the hall for a while now but no, he chose to be an ass about it.
@@paolo-n2000 , But players, coaches and managers are STILL NOT allowed to bet on baseball under penalty of a lifetime ban. Can't you see how damaging it would be to baseball if we let those so close to the game bet on the games?
Integrity of the game? Hahahahaha. Cocaine scandals, Corked bats-Albert Belle, Chris Sabo, Steroids Bonds, Macgure, Sosa..., HCG Clemens, Pettit...., Astros hacking, owner collusion, billion dollar contracts....You lost me there brother.
2 things... Steroids do not help your hand eye coordination to hit the ball and if prescribed for an injury players can use them. 2nd... For all we know hank aaron and other players used steroids? We will never know because baseball didnt test for it back then. Anyways pete should be in the HOF he bet on his team to win not like he was shaving runs
I'm 44 now and a Texas Rangers/ Houston Astros fan but as a kid Pete rose was my favorite player. Every time I bought a pack of baseball cards his was the one I was looking for
When Pete showed up in Philly last year and told a TV audience in Philly that he knew John Kruk when he had two balls, that kinda sealed the deal for Pete not getting into the Hall.
lol what a savage... certainly in poor taste, but nonetheless irrelevant to his career as a player... low-hanging fruit, but if someone like kanye west can still be allowed to live among us, much less still have a career (rather than strapped to a UN rocket and launched directly into the sun for the good of mankind)... then there's certainly no reason Pete Rose can't be in the hall of fame...
The problem here is that Pete was still eligible for the HOF when he accepted the ban from MLB. Giamatti believed it should be left up to the sportswriters. Two years later and after Giamatti's death, the HOF changed the rules to exclude Pete.
see thats where they lose me on keeping pete out of hall of fame. so 30 years now of being banned, but they wouldve let him in if he would have signed a piece of paper
Joe Jackson is over 100 years ago, and the case against him is far flimsier than Pete's. I can't see them ever letting Rose in if they still won't consider Jackson.
@@spence7985 He would have been if he wasn't thrown out of baseball during his playing days. Even Pete Rose said Joe Jackson was a better player than himself. Regardless, Pete saw what they did to Joe but Pete was too thickheaded to think he'd never get caught and he knew what the penalty was going to be. When the time comes, he and Joe can talk all about it and how they disgraced the game and the one thing that they both loved.
He was still managing, and the investigation never went into Pete's playing days, although they had evidence that he did bet while he was a player/manger but they never went into investigating that evidence because they already had enough evidence on him as a manager and the same rule applied...bet on your team and you're going to be banned for life.
@James Ratliff Put Pete in the Hall where he belongs and it will stop. That is why these guys keep getting asked the same question because Pete was just that good.
@James Ratliff "if he quit 6 seasons earlier" ... well that's not how averages work. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Bench should thank Pete not assail him. Pete started 6 years earlier than Bench and had 6 more productive years after Bench dropped off. When did Bench drop off? When Pete left the Reds!
@James Ratliff Cherry picking one year of stats is stupid. 99% of baseball fans take Rose over Bench's career. You, like Bench need to deal with it. I prefer Carlton Fisk at catcher....24 years in the league - double the productive years(20 vs 10) and not bashing his team mates over stuff that isn't his business.
If it could be proven that Rose ever - as a player or manager - made a decision or took an action that caused his team to lose in order to win a bet, then okay. Keep him out. But the fact he bet on games should not keep the man who collected more hits than anyone in MLB history out of the Hall.
The fact that he bet on the games he was managing is the rule and the rule states permanently ineligible. Why modify the rule after the fact to accommodate this guy? Why would any league want their players and managers betting on games just to get into some discussion about each decision in every game on whether he did that to win or not?
@@melchorreyes5251 Unfortunately, they know for a fact he bet on the Reds to lose while he was manager. Read the Dowd Report. It's unbelievable.I still love Pete, but he shouldn't be inducted into the Hall of Fame.
@@melchorreyes5251 I don't know if that's true, but I would not be surprised. Rose was the most competitive guy ever to play the game, and he was all about winning. I just don't believe he would prioritize winning bets over winning ballgames. (BTW, I HATED the guy during his playing days. He was the type of player you loved if he was on your team and couldn't stand if he was the opponent. )
Love Jonny Bench, but to say "if you have to tell Your Kids that there are No Rules in Baseball"; PLEASE! HOW ABOUT STERIODS, ALL THE OTHER PLAYERS (PITCHERS ESPECIALLY) AND TEAMS and Have CHEATED "UNDER MLS "RULES". WHAT A JOKE!
Both Ted Simmons & Johnny Bench played by the rules & men of high integrity who excelled on the field. Pete excelled but has little integrity and placed himself above the Rules. He only belongs in the Hall of SHAME.
Thing is, he didn’t serve his sentence. He had the chance and decided not to take it. He decided to take a chance, was found guilty, and now has to accept the consequences of his actions, including the lifetime ban because he broke the one rule that is not to be broken in baseball. If you are saying someone should be above the rules then the next time Mike Trout questions a strike call even if video shows it to be a strike, should we change it to a ball because Mike Trout is the greatest player today? Yes, I know the previous sentence is ridiculous but the rules apply to all, no matter how great they are. Pete Rose lied for years. He has shown no remorse and only apologized and admitted to what he did when it became obvious MLB would not budge or give in, as well they should not. No one is above the rules.
@@ozzymorrison8628 I don't think anyone questions that he should be in based on his ability. He's not in because of the gambling and lying about for so long, not because he wasn't a good enough player
@@ozzymorrison8628 No it's not! He broke the cardinal rule of major league baseball.You can't bet on the games.It's posted in every clubhouse.He broke the rule.Then he lied about it for years,before finally admitting it.
My dad, god rest his soul, played minor leagues for a couple years, believed that he shouldnt be in the hall of fame just like johnny bench! Always said he cheated and then would never admit it! I loved him as a ball player and looked up to him as a kid growing up playing baseball. I think he should be in on his accomplishments on the field, but not as a manager!! My dad and i would have conversations about it and looked at it differently but after hearing johnny bench describe his thoughts on it and him playing on the same team and knowing more than we do, i have to side with my dad now!! I guess my old school dad was right!!
Pete had a gambling problem, that spilled over into his job later in life. The hall of Fame would be nice, but his stats speaks for itself. More hits than any player in the history of the game. He's in his own hall of Fame, that's good enough and maybe even better. Pete Rose doesn't need the Baseball Hall of Fame. They need him, because it's not truly a Hall of Fame without him.
Calling BS. I think PR should be inducted for the fans and he should not get to participate in the ceremony or gain entrance to the building - ever. Having said that, his absence from the HoF doesn’t diminish it to the point of irrelevance. Not even close. On a semi related note, they should stop this stupid crap about Bonds, McGwire, A-Rod etc. if PEDs were pervasive in the sport (which most people agree was the case), then suspected users would have to pass the test of all HoF nominees, namely: do they stand a cut above those in their era? In other words, was Bonds better than the juiced pitcher he faced or the juiced OFer that tried to catch his line drive to the gap (or who watched his ball fly over the wall)? Answer is “yes”, definitively so!
Not all rules have punishments that last forever. This rule that Pete broke actually does have that punishment and it was clearly written for Rose to read every day and he definitely saw that rule more than any other baseball player in history since he played so many games. It's quite possible he never saw the rule because he had his head down while walking into the clubhouse checking out the betting lines for all the games that day.
It wasn’t breaking the rules that sealed Pete’s fate, it was lying about it so self righteously for well over decade and then confessing it to get money on a tell all book. He’s a lousy guy.
Bench got a divorce and his ex wife was asked about Bench. She said "Johnny Bench may be a hall of fame baseball player but in the bedroom he is a minor leaguer"
@@Amick44 Than what is wrong with Bench answering the question given to him about Rose? Bench is viewd by most as the greatest MLB Catcher to ever play the game. He was a teamate of Rose and knows the man!
He called into question the integrity of the game. Unlike drug use or alcoholism, gambling on the game affects the game itself. It doesn’t just bring shame on one person. If players/managers bet on games, the very outcome of games and playoffs are in doubt. Baseball becomes like professional wrestling - just a scripted soap opera. I spent 37 years in baseball as a ML scout and I am firmly in the “No” category for Rose’s HOF eligibility.
interesting how its usually the older school players like johnny bench and hank aaron who don think pete should be in the hall of fame, meanwhile the younger fans and players think he should. was gambling really looked down upon in the past??
@@RedroomStudios I don't care about his stats. Actually, nno one really does. His name and his legacy are that of a liar and a cheat. Seriously, you can't bring up his name without the discussion going to his dishonesty. And no stat line can change THAT.
@@charlesm7589 "no one cares about his stats"... oh really? then why on every discussion about him on youtube videos are the opinions split about 50/50? you are free to disagree with me and others but dont try to blow smoke up my ass that I'm the only one with this opinion.
That is a fact Michael. He is in the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame as well. That is a fact. This back and forth BS is so played out. The facts are what matter. Everything else is just personal feelings, opinions and beliefs.
If you’re saying people who broke the rules are not allowed in the hall of fame I’d wager that would disqualify half the HOF to begin with. Pete Rose deserves to be in the HOF as a player only.
exactly. what a POS. Used to love the guy as a BB player. He could have backed a "friend"/teammate and gave legit reasons why he should get in but he choses to act like a holier than thou azzhat and throw Pete under the bus. What a jerk. I'm sure all his former wives feel the same.
Can't bet and be in HOF, but others can beat up women, cheat with steroids, buy, use, and sell drugs, and whatever else to get an edge with athletic ability & ball movement on pitching and they are allowed in the Hall? Sounds hypocritical to me!
I personally don't like Pete Rose. He was always a "Look at me guy" instead of a true team player. And of course, he's guilty of gambling. That said, there are ballplayers who are in the Hall of Fame who've done much the same, and even worse. We know about White Supremacists like Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, etc. Cap Anson was a pedophile... marrying a child who was only 13 yrs old when he was 23! The list is endless. You mean to tell me those guys deserve to be in the "Hall" and not Pete? Because if you're going to debate to me about the integrity of the game, then we'd have to remove a fair share of those players already in!
You're arguing apples and oranges. MLB doesn't police player's actions outside the game. You can question whether it should or not, but that's a different debate. Pete's transgression stands apart from the others you listed because it was a direct violation of league rules. Like JB said, do rules matter or don't they? Without them, there is no game.
No more rules, when baseball knowingly juiced it's players then tried to act like that wasn't the case. Pete Rose bet on himself to WIN, he wasn't shaving runs or throwing games he was performing and doing it well. Not a damn thing wrong with that!
He always owed his bookies money. We don't know how his bets affected the games. Only he knows. The only thing we do know is there was a rule in place that if you bet on your team, you will be permanently banned. If he ever missed a game where he didn't bet on the Reds, that's basically a bet against them. Maybe the night before he tried to win so badly because he did have a bet that he sacrificed the win for the next game which is tainting the game. That's why players in control of games should never be able to bet on games. Thank you MLB for doing the right thing.
@@roland7584 MLB now officially in cahoots with casinos and players with asterisks next to their name in Cooperstown but Charlie Hustle still excluded. All sorts of right thing going on there👍
@@pb12661 It may not be but the use of words in a conversation are always proportionate to an individuals access and understanding of language and vocabulary skills.
I can understand Bench's spite for Rose. It must be truly humiliating for Bench to have to talk about Pete Rose so much. Host: My next guest played catcher in the major leagues for many years. Hello Johnny Bench, welcome to my show - it's so good of you to come tonight Bench: Thank you for having me, I'm glad to be here. Host: Johnny, what are your thoughts about Pete Rose? It must be humiliating to not talk about yourself, but someone people absolutely despise. All of the accomplishments and the only thing Bench talks about is Rose's betting on baseball......... Not steroids, not cocaine, not manipulation of the game, not the strike, not the B.S. home run derbies MLB has every few years when they quit drug testing. No, it's only about Rose betting on baseball.. Rose must have slept with Bench's wife or something.....
I doubt he’s humiliated. Bench was arguably the best catcher ever and people with morals (those who don’t delusionally worship Pete rose) have far more respect for Bench.
@@FISHH00KS I know he’s never been accused of or found out to be an adulterer, gambling addict, drug trafficker, sexual predator or bald faced liar. Pete Rose is all of those things.
Pete ( "Charlie Hustle") Rose, was one of the greatest players in his generation ! Him and the "Big Red Machine" were loved by their fans, and feared by all the other teams ! In the hall or not, Pete Rose will still be loved !!
I really don’t like players like Bench that suck up the company line. Pete Rose absolutely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. There’s so many unscrupulous characters that ended up in jail, beat their wives… That are sitting in the Hall of Fame.
Funny story...my family bumped into Johnny Bench when I was coming out of a surgery. I was loaded up on pain meds but I knew I recognized him. I just couldn't figure out how. I asked my wife to ask him and she hesitantly asked him if he knew me. He graciously admitted who he was. We have two photos he let us take as a group with him. Such a class act.
What would I tell my kids? If there was one athlete in baseball that I would want them to model their intensity, effort and love for the game after it would be Pete Rose.
You MoFo's are dense, his gambling addiction made him untrustworthy and threatened the integrity of the game. You can't have a manager betting on his own sport, there would be no way to know if his on field decisions were gambling based or what is best for the team in that situation.
@scrub44 Stop hanging onto childhood dreams, he also said he did not bet as a player but that was proven untrue. You cannot take him at his word, and yes there is proof that he bet against his own team
@@Bidwellz9 In his autobiography My Prison Without Bars, published by Rodale Press on January 8, 2004, Rose finally admitted publicly to betting on baseball games and other sports while playing for and managing the Reds. He also admitted to betting on Reds games,
I hated the Cincinnati Reds but I always loved Johnny Bench. Probably the greatest catcher of all-time, a total winner and class act. And he still looks great.
The consequences should have been just to ban him from working in baseball which is punishment enough. That shouldn't prevent him from being in the HOF based on his playing ability.
@@dirklerxstpratt2112 He was only banned from working in baseball. MLB doesn't run the HOF, it makes its own decisions and rules. One rule is is if you're banned from baseball you are not eligible for the Hall.
It's really humbling to realize that so many people that achieved such amazing feats of athletic challenges had to fall so far from the pinnacle after the glory faded....
Dude... get over it..... baseball is all about unwritten rules and if you’re not cheating you’re not competing. When I think of baseball I do not think of honesty and integrity, I think of winning at any price. This guy lives in a fantasy world and if we’re eliminating people from the Hall of Fame do the character flaws, Then there’s gonna be a lot of less guys in that hall.
Dude, you're obviously from the 'cheat code' generation. Cheating to win is not winning. It's a fraud made to look like winning. Cheating is where losers and wannabees go when they realize the other competitor is just plain better. Cheating is for the weak.
Sure he broke the rules.. But you can't keep the greatest Hitter in the history of the game out because he broke some rules... The punishment doesn't fit the crime! I've never heard he bet against his team to lose, that would be a crime to fit the punishment...
Let's just say the Reds had a 3 game series over the weekend. Pete knows the rotation coming into the weekend, so he feels he has a great chance the Reds will win Saturday. So...first he doesn't bet Friday's game, or maybe he puts on a small wager just because he loves action. On Friday, in a close game, he decides not to use a particular reliever or 2 because he wants them fresh in case they are needed for Saturday's game. On Saturday, he loads up on the Reds for his bet. After a few times doing this, the bookies start catching on to the betting pattern, and thus they now have important information for the betting world. I hope this helps explain why betting on these games is horrible for any sport when you have control of the game as a manager or as a player. The punishment certainly fits the crime in this case, and it was written in every clubhouse. It's a shame he spent so many waking hours studying what to bet on instead of trying to manage that team to a World Series. The team was in place to win multiple championships, so at least when he was finally gone, they had a manager purely focused on winning and amazingly they went wire to wire without him betting from his office or the dugout 5 minutes before game time.
toyman81 Not all rules that are broken are created equal. Betting artificially alters the outcome of the game. You can control more of the outcome of the game through betting than with PEDs. And as a manager, you even have more control if you’re betting on the game. It’s the ultimate sin for a reason. It might as well be the WWE if you’re going to do that.
@@jaymule7342 Maybe you missed all the news about the witnesses and all the evidence that the Dowd Report presented. Or perhaps you missed Pete's interview where after years of denial he finally admitted to it.
Yes Pete Rose should of come clean years ago.Even convicted felon’s and murder’s are given second chance.All time hits leader a record that will probably never be broken put the man in the HOF!!!!
Johnny Bench you might be a legend but as a life long 24 year old baseball fan I still had to look you up to see who you was…..I’ve known who Pete Rose is my whole life, based on that statement alone I think we can see who really deserve the HOF
As I watch MLB Network and see the sports betting odds scrolling across the bottom of the screen, see and hear the MLB broadcast personalities promoting fantasy sports betting on air, and see sports gambling companies as major sponsors of MLB; it's time to reinstate Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and induct them into the Hall of Fame. If MLB is going to actively and blatantly encourage people to bet money on MLB games by promoting sports gambling in an invasive manner, what Pete and Joe did doesn't matter anymore.
Being a hardcore Dodger fan in the 70's, I hated Rose & the Reds, but to keep a guy/rose that had more hits, than anyone that has ever played the game, is just stupid, the HOF is for what the players did On the field, not off. btw the 1919 white soxs players took money to Lose, aka to take a dive like in boxing.
And none of them are in. No proof that Shoeless Joe Jackson threw any games and he is not in either. His lying and lack of contrition are big reasons he is not in
Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame! There was nobody better nor anyone who played harder. He gave everything to the game. He was also so entertaining.
Rose did nothing to negatively detract from the sport! Such as cheating, drugs, alcohol, sexual or physical abuse like so many have been caught doing! Punishing him for gambling is tantamount to a cop giving you a speeding ticket for 5 mph over while a car full of drunk, high, popular kids speeds by doing 90 mph over! These powers that be i'm sure did much worse! He who is without sin cast the first stone! This needs to be undone! Rose is one of the GOATS!
Gambling on your own team is in fact CHEATING, and in a major way. The consensus at the time of the investigation was that he not only bet on his team to win, but also to lose. The investigation was ended as soon as it was about to tackle that question. He changed his story too many times after too many false denials; all which he had to flip-flop on once proof of guilt was shown. There's not a reason in this world to take him at his word on this matter.
Johnny Bench is some old doofus who naps in the afternoon and then goes for the early bird special at his local Denny's. Johnny...Pete Rose deserves the Baseball Hall of Fame and should join you there.
You're right! It would be fine if he cheated, if he lied, if he associated with gangsters and it affected his team, that he made critical decisions thinking about the bets he has out there. None of that should keep him from the HOF. Really?
Man what a blockheads. He disses his own teammate who helped him many times. H.o.f. suppose to be about on the field . And Rose is one of the top 2 in many offense statistics / numbers. He saw him , millions too and we know he's one of the best .
The Baseball HOF is the only one of the major sports, that has a “character clause”. In other words: OFF field character is to be considered as a factor, when voting for enshrinement. So, it is not entirely “about on the field”.
Pete Rose is one of the most arrogant people that ever played the game. That character flaw is exactly why he lied and why he didn't admit to what he did and why he didn't sign anything identifying his guilt. No way should he be in the HOF.
Doesn’t really matter if they hang a plaque on a wall somewhere for Rose, his name will live on forever as one of the greatest of all time.
Greatest what? He had a chance, the FBI said they'd drop his back taxes and get the NJ mobsters to forgive his $500,000 debt to them, but Rose said no, he was too big. Giamatti dropped the hammer on him, he went to prison for tax evasion and was banned forever from MLB. Worse than that, to pay his debt to the Mob he financed cocaine deals. Here is the Commissioner's report, long read.
www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/03/21/rose-investigator-pete-belong-game/25112355/
Everybody bent over backwards to save the face of baseball, he refused. Do you you support that?
Mountain Fisher I never said he was a hero, I never said he wasn’t a gambler, I never said he conducted himself like an angel. Really I’m no big Rose fan. Regardless of his actions he is still one of the “greatest” hitters to ever live. He played baseball to win. There is nothing he can do or anyone can say to deny this.
@@tinyman520 O.J. Simpson was a great football player too but don't think anyone is going to be putting up a plaque for him and he was acquitted.
Yup, people should continue to talk about him.
Especially to the next generation
I agree!
Johnny Bench brings up a good point that most of us had forgotten. Pete Rose had a chance to be forgiven by admitting to sports betting, and that he bet on Reds games, but he kept denying it, and claiming innocence. That’s why he’s not given a second chance to redeem himself, or get in the Hall.
If he was a wife beater he'd be in !!
He bet on winning. Who cares, bench is a pussy.
And I could care less if he "repents", the HoF shouldn't be about morality, it should be about baseball ability. I don't care if you murdered your family, if you have the most hits in MLB history, you deserve to get in. This isn't "who's the best person", it's "who's the best player".
That's not entirely true. I, and many others, are quite sure Bart Giamatti never intended for this to be carried out for so long, nor do I think he was intending to make an example out of Pete Rose. Supposedly they were working something out to smooth everything over. Unfortunately no one foresaw Giamatti dying less than a year after assuming commissionership, and also unfortunately, Bud Selig is an asshole.
Oh how wrong you are!@@kidzbop38isstraightfire92
They should really induct Joe Jackson posthumously. I know he may have had knowledge of the Black Sox scandal, but the dude hit .375 for the series, had the most RBI's, and even hit the only HR in the series. He maintained his innocence in his career, and at this point, I really think it's long overdue to enshrine Jackson in the HOF.
Agreed...but I also think Rose should be in...I just don't understand how mistakes for part of their career defines their entire career.
“When a Cincinnati player would bat a ball out in my territory I’d muff it if I could-that is, fail to catch it. But if it would look too much like crooked work to do that, I’d be slow and make a throw to the infield that would be short. My work netted the Cincinnati team several runs that they never would have had if we had been playing on the square.”
-sworn testimony by Joe Jackson
and more....“And I’m going to give you a tip. A lot of these sporting writers that have been roasting me have been talking about the third game of the World’s Series being square. Let me tell you something. The eight of us did our best to kick it and little Dick Kerr won the game by his pitching. Because he won it, those gamblers double crossed us because we double crossed them.”
Stats aren't everything.
@kidzbop38isstraightfire92 If you were a model citizen and good neighbor right up until the caught you robbing a charity fund, do you think they should give you the keys to the city and make you Man of the Year after you serve your time?
At this point, not being in the HOF is probably going to make Rose’s legacy greater.
Nope. He's still a douchebag.
@@pneulancer *Rose* is a douchebag AND a future HOF member. He won't be the first. That dis-honor has to go to a member of the first HOF class, *Ty Cobb.*
@ Not a HOF member by any shot. If you want to see what gambling does, then look no further than Shoeless Joe Jackson, who it was proven DID NOT bet on baseball, but is banned from the hall. His crime was knowing it was happening and not speaking out about it. Bench is right. Pete is a dumbshit who had a chance to "manup" to what he did, but chose the stupid way to go, following his moron lawyer's advice. If Gamblin' Pete gets in Joe Jackson goes in first, since at least he didn't do what Gamblin" Pete ADMITTED to doing.
@Mr.Brenman21 Nope. Just another in a long list of dishonest, egotist who think rules dont apply to them.
@Mr.Brenman21 Obviously it isn't just my opinion. Your argument is that if someone else gets away with cheating then MLB and the HOF should let every cheater from then forward off the hook as well.
Inconsistency in the application of the law has been part of human history from the beginning. The solution is not to throw out all enforcement, but to strive to do better.
But inconsistency aside, Bonds, Sosa, McGuire et al, cheated. No one made them do it. How are they victims? How about the pitchers who's stats were made artificially worse by facing them? How about Hank Aaron's record being basically stolen? How about other clean hitters who didn't get to compete on a level playing field?
This is an important point made by Bench. Gambling got him suspended, but his lack of contrition and continued lies made the ban permanent. I was 10 at the time of the scandal. 10 year old me thought it was all a misunderstanding or that he was framed because the great Pete Rose said he "didn't bet on baseball or Cincinnati Red's baseball". Then decades later he comes out with a book to make money off the fact that he did bet on baseball. And this followed years after making money playin the part of a martyr... No. You don't get to get into the HOF. It's not the initial lie or sin. It is the continued failure to make amends except for when it was in his own self interest
Bingo. You just nailed it! 👍
Sometimes people are just too stubborn for their own good.
He DID have a path to the HOF and he stubbornly refused it.
And that's why Bonds won't be in either. No admitting he did wrong, no contrition.
The cover-up is always worse than the crime.
💯👍🏻
Pete Rose has such a legacy that it wouldn’t matter if he were inducted into the Hall of Fame.
@James Ratliff It would be nothing like Kareem. Kareem never disgraced his sport so why would he not be in the NBA Hall of Fame? The only thing in the NBA you can compare Pete Rose to that would make sense is Tim Donaghy.
@James Ratliff Baseball has integrity for keeping Rose and Bonds out thus proving they can't be compared to wrestling. Rose committed the cardinal sin and baseball already had a poster boy if anyone else tried it. Everyone knew what the punishment would be and it was clearly written. It wouldn't have surprised me if someone that was barely on a roster tried to bet, but the hit king doing it just proves how arrogant he is and to deny it for years rather than take the deals that were handed to him even before the investigation makes it one of the worst stories in the hi story of all sports. He could have avoided going to jail if he just took the deal, but somehow he thought he could lie and deny it forever. I guarantee if he made the hall 5 years afterwards, he would have never confessed to anything. He still denies things that the evidence clearly points out. Keeping him on the permanently ineligible list is the only decision in the last 40 years that baseball has gotten right.
@James Ratliff Kareem never broke a rule that states if you break it you will be banned for life. Pete Rose did.
@James Ratliff I'm caught up in the fact that this was a Pete Rose discussion about him being banned from baseball for gambling on the Reds. The investigation didn't span all the years of his career. Once they could validate the claims made by his bet runners, they didn't go much further than that. However, years later it was discovered that they had evidence Rose did in fact bet on baseball while he was a player manager. Regardless, whether his playing days were over or not, he broke Rule 21 and he knew what the punishment would be. He will never get into the Hall, but Kareem proudly sits in the NBA Hall of Fame for not breaking any rules.
@James Ratliff It's wrestling. Who cares? The whole thing is a total scripted show. Major sports can't script Willie Mays' catch in the World Series. They can't script Derek Jeter's play against the A's. Wrestling is all scripted, all steroids, all made up. Vince McMahon was the freaking owner when he was "just the announcer". That's how scripted the entire thing is. They are great at it. Are the wrestlers athletes. Sure they are but comparing their Hall of Fame to anything else is quite ridiculous. There is NO softening towards Pete. He still denies some of the stuff he did even though it's all documented so there's no commissioner in their right mind that will bend on him. The Hall would have to modify their rule because MLB is definitely not changing their stance in our lifetime.
I grew up a Dodgers fan and I EFFING HATED the Reds during the 70s, but I and a lot of my friends had a ton of respect for Johnny Bench. He was the greatest.
That picture of him holding SEVEN baseballs in ONE hand is potentially the most riveting baseball photos of all time in my opinion.
Bench was the greatest catcher I have ever seen .
After Pete Rose, the greatest.
Pete's not a catcher, I realize..
I am A Dodger fan and watching Pete Rose play baseball at Dodger Stadium in the 70s & 80s was awesome. Charlie Hustle!!!
Unquestionably PETE ROSE deserves to be in the HOF. He was one of the best in history - this is just a fact. PUT HIM IN!!!
He bet on the games he was managing.....and he never owned up to it...so no, he doesn't deserve the Hall...you serious?
@@phillipbelk3528 I don't care. He PLAYED at a level of greatest not achieved by virtually all who ever played.
Obviously, none of you know why Pete isn't in baseball or the hall of fame
@@hughkerins3151 Snobs.
@@sms9106 Fact-Pete bet on baseball, Fact-Pete didn't want to be held accountable for his misdeeds. Fact-Pete didn't want the findings of the investigation made public. Fact Pete with a lawyer signed document(s) banning himself from baseball (lifetime ban). Pete doesn't deserve to be in HOF because of his own stupidity.
You'd never know he was banned if you're familiar with vintage baseball card prices.
(Which I have several PR cards)
To this day, 8 September 2024 Pete Rose still hold the record for most hits all-time and most singles.
“Wanna bet I’ll get in?” - Pete Rose
LOL
@@rickb.9067 You’re right about that!!!!
Lol
Rose is already in. All time hits record.
He will get in but sad part is it will be when he passes away!!sucks cuz he probably the best hitter of all time
Absolutely the greatest catcher in my lifetime, nobody else comes close.
My vote goes to Pudge Rodriguez
Lmao the second they mention or start to mention Hall of Fame, guys like Bench already start rolling their eyes because they know where the interview is going, especially about Rose.
Bench needs to get over it.
@@RedroomStudios Agreed
@@RedroomStudios Bench was an honorable player who did nothing to hurt the game. Pete Rose not so much and he feels baseball owes him something. Grew up in Cincinnati watching these guys play and would always run into them around town all the time. Pete Rose was the only one who would never sign anything the rest of them would sit and chat and sign whatever you wanted. Pete Rose is an ass hat of a person.
@@billsmith6309 so you are using your own personal animus against him as the measuring stick... I dont care about him as a person. the HOF is about recognizing accomplishments on the field. the guy is the all time hits leader in the game. for him to not be represented in the Hall is beyond ridiculous. and if I was Rose I would think the game owed me something too with the stats he has.
He is in the Gambling Hall of Fame though. @@RedroomStudios
Does it really matter anymore if he's in the HoF or not? Not being in is more of a boom for him than if he was. Things have been so watered down lately with some of the recent inductees (good players, not great, who just got in) that being in the HoF is devalued.
I am 73 years old, I remember and saw play Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson, Roger Maris, Willie Mays, Willie Stargell, Vick Wertz, Roberto Clemente, Johnny Bench, and many more, all greats. The greatest ball player in my lifetime was Pete Rose. As a ball player, Pete had a great influence on me when I played. His dedication to the game, hustle, abilities put him at the top. He is in MY hall of fame!
Which is where he should be. In yours.
He was far from the greatest ballplayer among those you listed.
Probably one of the best all around players in the last 50 years has to be Rickey henderson. Gets no credit
Pete wasn't even the best player on his team much less in his own era.
ARoberto Clemente was a much better player than Rose.
He never bet on his team. He bet either on the over and under or the spread. He had control of the game to effect the results. Doesn't matter how great 1 person is no one is bigger then the game and it's integrity.
@bryan joiner right. You would watch a sporting event if you thought it was rigged. Allow 1 man to get away with it then you have to allow everyone.
Joe Jackson gets in before Pete
Abbuhl Charles I agree completely! If anyone deserves to be in the HOF, it’s Joe Jackson.
Yes shoeless should get in He was found not guilty But he will never get in there
Yup.
Hell yes for joe
Nope. Regardless if Joe Jackson did or did not take the 5K he knew what was going on.
Pete's Arrogance & Pride stood in the Way! His attitude hasn't changed 1 Bit Either!
Few people can truly understand just how bad any addiction can cloud your judgement
So true. Just a few months ago my wife got Addicted to casino gambling and I'll tell you we are paying dearly for now
Rush Ron
The most important thing to remember if your spouse is addicted to anything is not to hang on and hit rock bottom with them. If she slips back into the addiction you have to let her go. Make that very clear to her. I was an addict for almost 20 years and any kindness or sympathy I was shown I took advantage of the person. It’s what we do.
@@chrisj197438 thanks for the advice!
If that’s the case then A-Rod.. Barry Bonds.. Several more are In the hall they cheated also so how’s that?
@@itslildaryl7426 Juiced up batters were going against juiced up pitchers it was an a messed up way kind of fair for them. It was not fair for the players like Chipper Jones who people believe never did anything to enhance their performance. I am not a Braves fan at all but damn if chipper had been on the juice who knows what the records would be
Pete belongs in the Hall as a player.
I also thought that. But the thing is he also gambled when he was a player.
I agree. I never liked JB and like him less after this. THEY WERE All gambling on games, nothing new
@@robertdaniels6510
Maybe so. But we must be light in the darkness as Jesus said. Just because “all” are doing it doesn’t mean I need to follow them.
Pete agreed to the terms..
@@istvandejesus Did he bet against his team as a player?
Johnny Bench and 90% of the hall of famers are scrubs compared to Pete Rose.
He bet on games including on the Reds while he was even a Manager for the Reds, come on folks, he stays out of the Cooperstown. Sure he was was an all-time great, would have loved him on my team, most would agree, just not in the Hall of Fame. I can't believe after 33 years we are still debating this, it is over - this is about the integrity of the game. Besides all this, I wish health and happiness, he is 81, God Bless him.
Integrity? Tell me the player or manager who earns a salary so meager that he has to gamble and fix games? No one needs to protect the integrity of baseball due to gambling violations. Not now days. This is insider grudge-politics, and it stinks.
@@stevesilva2780 , he gambled because he like it and probably got hooked on it.
Integrity of the game? LoL. Do you have any idea how many games were called because of rain and made official? Home teams won 70% of those in the 50's and 60's? How bout that integrity?
Oh please he bet on the reds to win not lose
I agree with Johnny Bench 110%; PETE ROSE MUST NEVER, EVER BE IN THE HALL OF FAME!!!🥰😍🤩❤️❤️❤️
You can't go over 100% Einstein
As a Padre fan... or even just a baseball fan in general, I admire Tony Gwynn a LOT more than Rose. Tony would NEVER bet on baseball and he didn't do steroids either. He had so much more integrity than that. My admiration for Pete dropped by half after the gambling fiasco.
Rose is a failure at the bigger game called life.
I agree with Johnny 100%. I've been saying this for years. Had Rose come right out and admitted what he did and humbled himself and said he had a gambling problem all would have been forgiven and he'd have been in the hall for a while now but no, he chose to be an ass about it.
Hall of Fame or not, Pete Rose, in my opinion, was the best contact hitter ever.
He was of his time. You can make a strong argument for Rod Carew, but Pete hit for more power, extra base hits.
@@Amick44 and more hits
@@Amick44 Tony Gwynn.
@@mikesalyers4914 i speaking of his era.
Tony Gwynn and Pete Rose, but I get your point…he’s a hall of famer!
Dude didn't even pay his gambling debts.
You’re right about that, and Not to mention he served time in Prison for Tax Evasion!!!!
If you bet on baseball, you are banned for life. No exceptions. No second chances. What part of that don't some people get?
Yeah & MLB happily partners with gambling entity DraftKings every season now! What part of that don't YOU get! MLB is a shame thanks to Selig/Manfred
@@paolo-n2000 , But players, coaches and managers are STILL NOT allowed to bet on baseball under penalty of a lifetime ban. Can't you see how damaging it would be to baseball if we let those so close to the game bet on the games?
No one is bigger than the integrity of the game, no one!
Integrity of the game? Hahahahaha. Cocaine scandals, Corked bats-Albert Belle, Chris Sabo, Steroids Bonds, Macgure, Sosa..., HCG Clemens, Pettit...., Astros hacking, owner collusion, billion dollar contracts....You lost me there brother.
@@68air
Well the steroid guys are not in. Betting on baseball destroys the games integrity..
2 things... Steroids do not help your hand eye coordination to hit the ball and if prescribed for an injury players can use them. 2nd... For all we know hank aaron and other players used steroids? We will never know because baseball didnt test for it back then. Anyways pete should be in the HOF he bet on his team to win not like he was shaving runs
@@jumpmasterpadre9335 can u prove they werent taking steroids b4 baseball tested for them? No, u cant! So.... Go fuck yourself
Johnny just going to forget everybody was using uppers supplied by the team in his day. Integrity of the game is a joke.
Bench is 100% correct. For so many reasons.
I love and respect Johnny Bench but BEFORE he passes, PETE ROSE should be in the Hall of Fame!!!🥰🥰🥰⚾⚾⚾🥰🥰🥰
I'm 44 now and a Texas Rangers/ Houston Astros fan but as a kid Pete rose was my favorite player. Every time I bought a pack of baseball cards his was the one I was looking for
Heh, seemed like every pack i got, he was in it. I never got the George brett card that i wanted (as a Royal he was my 2ndfavorite behind Quisenberry)
How the hell at 44 could Pete have been your favorite player? This guys last good year was 81..
Too bad I was stupid and taped all those Pete rose cards with masking tape in a photo album! Lol
When Pete showed up in Philly last year and told a TV audience in Philly that he knew John Kruk when he had two balls, that kinda sealed the deal for Pete not getting into the Hall.
lol what a savage... certainly in poor taste, but nonetheless irrelevant to his career as a player...
low-hanging fruit, but if someone like kanye west can still be allowed to live among us, much less still have a career (rather than strapped to a UN rocket and launched directly into the sun for the good of mankind)... then there's certainly no reason Pete Rose can't be in the hall of fame...
The problem here is that Pete was still eligible for the HOF when he accepted the ban from MLB. Giamatti believed it should be left up to the sportswriters. Two years later and after Giamatti's death, the HOF changed the rules to exclude Pete.
Whatever keeps him out is ok by me.
see thats where they lose me on keeping pete out of hall of fame. so 30 years now of being banned, but they wouldve let him in if he would have signed a piece of paper
Joe Jackson is over 100 years ago, and the case against him is far flimsier than Pete's. I can't see them ever letting Rose in if they still won't consider Jackson.
@@davidjorgensen877 shoeless joe jackson hasn’t been the all time hits leader for the last 35 years either
@@spence7985 He would have been if he wasn't thrown out of baseball during his playing days. Even Pete Rose said Joe Jackson was a better player than himself. Regardless, Pete saw what they did to Joe but Pete was too thickheaded to think he'd never get caught and he knew what the penalty was going to be. When the time comes, he and Joe can talk all about it and how they disgraced the game and the one thing that they both loved.
@@roland7584 here’s the difference between Joe and Pete. Pete was retired from playing. Joe did it while CURRENTLY playing
He was still managing, and the investigation never went into Pete's playing days, although they had evidence that he did bet while he was a player/manger but they never went into investigating that evidence because they already had enough evidence on him as a manager and the same rule applied...bet on your team and you're going to be banned for life.
I’d like to hear Johnny Bench speak on his career, what a waste of time when he has to take questions on Pete Rose!
@James Ratliff Put Pete in the Hall where he belongs and it will stop. That is why these guys keep getting asked the same question because Pete was just that good.
Coat tails? That career?
@James Ratliff He would have been better off with large knees.
@James Ratliff "if he quit 6 seasons earlier" ... well that's not how averages work. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Bench should thank Pete not assail him. Pete started 6 years earlier than Bench and had 6 more productive years after Bench dropped off. When did Bench drop off? When Pete left the Reds!
@James Ratliff Cherry picking one year of stats is stupid. 99% of baseball fans take Rose over Bench's career. You, like Bench need to deal with it. I prefer Carlton Fisk at catcher....24 years in the league - double the productive years(20 vs 10) and not bashing his team mates over stuff that isn't his business.
Bench is right. Rose should not be in the Hall of Fame.
If it could be proven that Rose ever - as a player or manager - made a decision or took an action that caused his team to lose in order to win a bet, then okay. Keep him out. But the fact he bet on games should not keep the man who collected more hits than anyone in MLB history out of the Hall.
The fact that he bet on the games he was managing is the rule and the rule states permanently ineligible. Why modify the rule after the fact to accommodate this guy? Why would any league want their players and managers betting on games just to get into some discussion about each decision in every game on whether he did that to win or not?
Read the Dowd Report. It's incredible.
I've been hearing that he only bet on his team to win games. Has this been proven or just came from Pete? Serious question if anybody knows.
@@melchorreyes5251 Unfortunately, they know for a fact he bet on the Reds to lose while he was manager. Read the Dowd Report. It's unbelievable.I still love Pete, but he shouldn't be inducted into the Hall of Fame.
@@melchorreyes5251 I don't know if that's true, but I would not be surprised. Rose was the most competitive guy ever to play the game, and he was all about winning. I just don't believe he would prioritize winning bets over winning ballgames. (BTW, I HATED the guy during his playing days. He was the type of player you loved if he was on your team and couldn't stand if he was the opponent. )
Be curious to she what ol' Johnny thinks of the Astros
Be more curious to hear Leo Durocher's opinion.
He's probably disgusted. Disgusted at anything that brings shame onto the game. Johnny Bench is old school in many ways.
Two completely unrelated offenses but I imagine he would have a problem with the Astros as well.
They should all be banned
I am am NO Longer Interested in Johnny Bench's "opinions"
Love Jonny Bench, but to say "if you have to tell Your Kids that there are No Rules in Baseball"; PLEASE! HOW ABOUT STERIODS, ALL THE OTHER PLAYERS (PITCHERS ESPECIALLY) AND TEAMS and Have CHEATED "UNDER MLS "RULES". WHAT A JOKE!
I was his caddie for a few years and let me tell you when they say be careful of meeting your heroes, they were right.
Caddy to Bench or Rose?
Yes
I grew up in cincy in the 60s-70s. Pete was one of the best ballplayers of all time, but not a very good human. I hope he gets his life together.
Well , he never answered you , so I guess he was lying @@TheBobbybbc
As a HUGE Cardinals and Ted Simmons fan, I have nothing but respect for Johnny Bench.
Both Ted Simmons & Johnny Bench played by the rules & men of high integrity who excelled on the field. Pete excelled but has little integrity and placed himself above the Rules. He only belongs in the Hall of SHAME.
I don’t blame for Johnny saying no to Pete either.
Let him in he served his sentence. Can't forget how great his talent was and the records he accomplished...
Thing is, he didn’t serve his sentence. He had the chance and decided not to take it. He decided to take a chance, was found guilty, and now has to accept the consequences of his actions, including the lifetime ban because he broke the one rule that is not to be broken in baseball.
If you are saying someone should be above the rules then the next time Mike Trout questions a strike call even if video shows it to be a strike, should we change it to a ball because Mike Trout is the greatest player today? Yes, I know the previous sentence is ridiculous but the rules apply to all, no matter how great they are.
Pete Rose lied for years. He has shown no remorse and only apologized and admitted to what he did when it became obvious MLB would not budge or give in, as well they should not. No one is above the rules.
his sentence is a lifetime ban so no he hasent served his sentence
@@GetRidOfCivilAssetForfeiture You rule! I don't know how people don't see what you see. You make perfect sense.
@@assassin415 I couldn't have said it better myself. He is lucky that baseball even gave him any parole hearings for what he did.
If were Pete I would accept privately and decline openly on social media and national news , then walk off into the sun set. 😎
Pete Rose was an outstanding player
That's not the point.
@@NortonsNestMonthly that's exactly the FN POINT
@@ozzymorrison8628 I don't think anyone questions that he should be in based on his ability. He's not in because of the gambling and lying about for so long, not because he wasn't a good enough player
@@ozzymorrison8628 No it's not! He broke the cardinal rule of major league baseball.You can't bet on the games.It's posted in every clubhouse.He broke the rule.Then he lied about it for years,before finally admitting it.
@@snave59 Yes, now that you mentioned it!!!
My dad, god rest his soul, played minor leagues for a couple years, believed that he shouldnt be in the hall of fame just like johnny bench! Always said he cheated and then would never admit it! I loved him as a ball player and looked up to him as a kid growing up playing baseball. I think he should be in on his accomplishments on the field, but not as a manager!! My dad and i would have conversations about it and looked at it differently but after hearing johnny bench describe his thoughts on it and him playing on the same team and knowing more than we do, i have to side with my dad now!! I guess my old school dad was right!!
Thank you johnny Bench
Pete had a gambling problem, that spilled over into his job later in life. The hall of Fame would be nice, but his stats speaks for itself. More hits than any player in the history of the game. He's in his own hall of Fame, that's good enough and maybe even better. Pete Rose doesn't need the Baseball Hall of Fame. They need him, because it's not truly a Hall of Fame without him.
Bullshit.
He is a Cheater, he gambled on the game as a Player & a Manager, 1 Rule in Baseball, Don't gamble on it.
@@Rspenesmit He only got caught.... many many players bet on baseball.
Bullshit
Calling BS. I think PR should be inducted for the fans and he should not get to participate in the ceremony or gain entrance to the building - ever. Having said that, his absence from the HoF doesn’t diminish it to the point of irrelevance. Not even close.
On a semi related note, they should stop this stupid crap about Bonds, McGwire, A-Rod etc. if PEDs were pervasive in the sport (which most people agree was the case), then suspected users would have to pass the test of all HoF nominees, namely: do they stand a cut above those in their era? In other words, was Bonds better than the juiced pitcher he faced or the juiced OFer that tried to catch his line drive to the gap (or who watched his ball fly over the wall)? Answer is “yes”, definitively so!
Does Johnny Bench tell his kids that if they break the rules, their punishment should last forever?
Not all rules have punishments that last forever. This rule that Pete broke actually does have that punishment and it was clearly written for Rose to read every day and he definitely saw that rule more than any other baseball player in history since he played so many games. It's quite possible he never saw the rule because he had his head down while walking into the clubhouse checking out the betting lines for all the games that day.
you don't get it. Pete broke a one of the sacred rules of the games, he doesn't get in , period,
It wasn’t breaking the rules that sealed Pete’s fate, it was lying about it so self righteously for well over decade and then confessing it to get money on a tell all book. He’s a lousy guy.
Bench got a divorce and his ex wife was asked about Bench. She said "Johnny Bench may be a hall of fame baseball player but in the bedroom he is a minor leaguer"
@William Gullett uhhh okay?? I don’t see how that’s relevant.
@@TheMW2informer its not, its just a quote about Bench
So she's a bitter bitch. What's new?
I've heard that cheap shot from numerous women so many times I think they pretty much all say that about their exes.
@@onemoremisfit I'm sure other women use it but only the ones whose ex husband's are in the Hall of Fame. Otherwise it wouldnt make sense
One thing about Pete, he didn’t buy ONE hit. Read Bench’s personal life. He didn’t walk on water.
I know. Who is he to talk,?
@@Amick44 How did Bench break MLB rules?
@@tedfio1tedfio1 I wasn't aware that he did
@@Amick44 Than what is wrong with Bench answering the question given to him about Rose? Bench is viewd by most as the greatest MLB Catcher to ever play the game. He was a teamate of Rose and knows the man!
Bench was as if asbumbastheycome
If I had played my career by hitting singles like Pete Rose I'd wear a dress. Quote Mickey Mantle
I’d pay to see how Johnny talks to Pete
He called into question the integrity of the game. Unlike drug use or alcoholism, gambling on the game affects the game itself. It doesn’t just bring shame on one person. If players/managers bet on games, the very outcome of games and playoffs are in doubt. Baseball becomes like professional wrestling - just a scripted soap opera. I spent 37 years in baseball as a ML scout and I am firmly in the “No” category for Rose’s HOF eligibility.
So you are responsible for turning a blind eye to the PED era. Nice integrity there!
interesting how its usually the older school players like johnny bench and hank aaron who don think pete should be in the hall of fame, meanwhile the younger fans and players think he should. was gambling really looked down upon in the past??
I love Pete. But Johnnys quote about going to your kids and saying there’s no more rules hits hard and he’s exactly right
thats a petty emotional ploy. none of that changes Rose's staggering accomplishments on the field.
@@RedroomStudios I don't care about his stats. Actually, nno one really does. His name and his legacy are that of a liar and a cheat.
Seriously, you can't bring up his name without the discussion going to his dishonesty. And no stat line can change THAT.
@@charlesm7589 "no one cares about his stats"... oh really? then why on every discussion about him on youtube videos are the opinions split about 50/50? you are free to disagree with me and others but dont try to blow smoke up my ass that I'm the only one with this opinion.
Give me a decent person over a great athlete any day. Pete was the latter not the former.
Pete Rose is already in the Hall of Fame . All his uniforms and stories are there. He just didn’t get a plaque
That is a fact Michael. He is in the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame as well. That is a fact. This back and forth BS is so played out. The facts are what matter. Everything else is just personal feelings, opinions and beliefs.
If you’re saying people who broke the rules are not allowed in the hall of fame I’d wager that would disqualify half the HOF to begin with. Pete Rose deserves to be in the HOF as a player only.
Don't really matter if he's not in the hall . His 4000+ hits are legendary..And will never be broken .
who need a friend like Johnny Bench?
A straight shooter is always helpful
exactly. what a POS. Used to love the guy as a BB player. He could have backed a "friend"/teammate and gave legit reasons why he should get in but he choses to act like a holier than thou azzhat and throw Pete under the bus. What a jerk. I'm sure all his former wives feel the same.
So, he should lie?
No One
@@pb12661 he kinda always came off that way to me.
Can't bet and be in HOF, but others can beat up women, cheat with steroids, buy, use, and sell drugs, and whatever else to get an edge with athletic ability & ball movement on pitching and they are allowed in the Hall? Sounds hypocritical to me!
I personally don't like Pete Rose. He was always a "Look at me guy" instead of a true team player. And of course, he's guilty of gambling. That said, there are ballplayers who are in the Hall of Fame who've done much the same, and even worse. We know about White Supremacists like Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, etc. Cap Anson was a pedophile... marrying a child who was only 13 yrs old when he was 23! The list is endless. You mean to tell me those guys deserve to be in the "Hall" and not Pete? Because if you're going to debate to me about the integrity of the game, then we'd have to remove a fair share of those players already in!
You're arguing apples and oranges. MLB doesn't police player's actions outside the game. You can question whether it should or not, but that's a different debate. Pete's transgression stands apart from the others you listed because it was a direct violation of league rules. Like JB said, do rules matter or don't they? Without them, there is no game.
So ridiculous. They forgot to mention that a ton of Pete Rose's memorabilia is already in the Basement Hall of Fame.
Man this dude bet on his team to win and crushed the hit record with getting kicked out early. Quit hating dude
It don’t matter if he gets in... he will always be talked about.. you made him infamous... on top of his 4K plus hits....
No more rules, when baseball knowingly juiced it's players then tried to act like that wasn't the case. Pete Rose bet on himself to WIN, he wasn't shaving runs or throwing games he was performing and doing it well. Not a damn thing wrong with that!
Lefty Rosenthal agrees
@@KoolT and now with Caesars and the white Sox official partners. No hypocrisy at all there
@@KoolT LOL..exactly right
He always owed his bookies money. We don't know how his bets affected the games. Only he knows. The only thing we do know is there was a rule in place that if you bet on your team, you will be permanently banned. If he ever missed a game where he didn't bet on the Reds, that's basically a bet against them. Maybe the night before he tried to win so badly because he did have a bet that he sacrificed the win for the next game which is tainting the game. That's why players in control of games should never be able to bet on games. Thank you MLB for doing the right thing.
@@roland7584 MLB now officially in cahoots with casinos and players with asterisks next to their name in Cooperstown but Charlie Hustle still excluded. All sorts of right thing going on there👍
Disagree. It’s a high level of hypocrisy.
Pete Rose was a great thug. The same aberrant personality that contributed to his playing prowess also cost him his Hall of Fame hopes.
Yup, pride goeth before a fall.
I'm not sure "thug" is the best description when referring to Pete Rose.
@@pb12661 Well, I am, so are we clear now?
@@pb12661 It may not be but the use of words in a conversation are always proportionate to an individuals access and understanding of language and vocabulary skills.
Agree 100 percent with Johnny Bench
Yup
I can understand Bench's spite for Rose. It must be truly humiliating for Bench to have to talk about Pete Rose so much.
Host: My next guest played catcher in the major leagues for many years. Hello Johnny Bench, welcome to my show - it's so good of you to come tonight
Bench: Thank you for having me, I'm glad to be here.
Host: Johnny, what are your thoughts about Pete Rose?
It must be humiliating to not talk about yourself, but someone people absolutely despise.
All of the accomplishments and the only thing Bench talks about is Rose's betting on baseball......... Not steroids, not cocaine, not manipulation of the game, not the strike, not the B.S. home run derbies MLB has every few years when they quit drug testing. No, it's only about Rose betting on baseball.. Rose must have slept with Bench's wife or something.....
I doubt he’s humiliated. Bench was arguably the best catcher ever and people with morals (those who don’t delusionally worship Pete rose) have far more respect for Bench.
@@MaximusWolfe How well do you know Bench? Ever meet him or have dinner with him and his wife?
@@FISHH00KS
I know he’s never been accused of or found out to be an adulterer, gambling addict, drug trafficker, sexual predator or bald faced liar. Pete Rose is all of those things.
Spoken by a man famous for selling spray paint, johnny your the only drip,run and error I see
So you're saying Johnny bench isn't famous for playing baseball. You're a fucking moron buddy.
Rose fanboy alert
Pete ( "Charlie Hustle") Rose, was one of the greatest players in his generation ! Him and the "Big Red Machine" were loved by their fans, and feared by all the other teams ! In the hall or not, Pete Rose will still be loved !!
I really don’t like players like Bench that suck up the company line. Pete Rose absolutely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. There’s so many unscrupulous characters that ended up in jail, beat their wives… That are sitting in the Hall of Fame.
Couldn't agree More.
Funny story...my family bumped into Johnny Bench when I was coming out of a surgery. I was loaded up on pain meds but I knew I recognized him. I just couldn't figure out how. I asked my wife to ask him and she hesitantly asked him if he knew me. He graciously admitted who he was. We have two photos he let us take as a group with him. Such a class act.
What would I tell my kids? If there was one athlete in baseball that I would want them to model their intensity, effort and love for the game after it would be Pete Rose.
I assume we should be ok with the college point shaving scandals mover the years as well?
I would suggest Stan Musial as a model. Just as dedicated as Rose but he has integrity and class, which Rose didn't think mattered.
@@wyldebyll3089 Oh get over yourself lol. The man deserves to be in the Hall. End of story.
@@wyldebyll3089 Point taken. Nonetheless, I could watch video of Rose’s highlights and hear him talk about baseball for hours.
Then your values are warped. Pete Rose is an example of bad moral character.
A great listen and watch. What a Legend who is absolutely right here.
Why block his face with the microphone? Move the mic or move the camera.
was thinking the same thing. This is RIDICULOUS. It really made my blood boil...i think they do it on purpose to annoy us.
You MoFo's are dense, his gambling addiction made him untrustworthy and threatened the integrity of the game. You can't have a manager betting on his own sport, there would be no way to know if his on field decisions were gambling based or what is best for the team in that situation.
he bet they would win, not much else you can take from that except he wasnt going to lose on purpose
@scrub44 Stop hanging onto childhood dreams, he also said he did not bet as a player but that was proven untrue. You cannot take him at his word, and yes there is proof that he bet against his own team
saying theres proof is like me saying theres proof of bigfoot, wheres the proof?@@personanongrata7135
Hey Johnny Bench bet you didn't mind Pete when he was helping you win that World Series did you?
@@Bidwellz9 In his autobiography My Prison Without Bars, published by Rodale Press on January 8, 2004, Rose finally admitted publicly to betting on baseball games and other sports while playing for and managing the Reds. He also admitted to betting on Reds games,
I hated the Cincinnati Reds but I always loved Johnny Bench. Probably the greatest catcher of all-time, a total winner and class act. And he still looks great.
..BS ...Pete should be in the HOF ...no one's perfect... including J Bench
He didn't bet on baseball thats the difference he couldn't stop moved to Vegas lol he's an addict!
Did Johnny bet on his own team?
Rose was a great talent but he broke the rules and there are consequences for that.
The consequences should have been just to ban him from working in baseball which is punishment enough. That shouldn't prevent him from being in the HOF based on his playing ability.
@@dirklerxstpratt2112 He was only banned from working in baseball. MLB doesn't run the HOF, it makes its own decisions and rules. One rule is is if you're banned from baseball you are not eligible for the Hall.
It's really humbling to realize that so many people that achieved such amazing feats of athletic challenges had to fall so far from the pinnacle after the glory faded....
Dude... get over it..... baseball is all about unwritten rules and if you’re not cheating you’re not competing. When I think of baseball I do not think of honesty and integrity, I think of winning at any price. This guy lives in a fantasy world and if we’re eliminating people from the Hall of Fame do the character flaws, Then there’s gonna be a lot of less guys in that hall.
Dude, you're obviously from the 'cheat code' generation. Cheating to win is not winning. It's a fraud made to look like winning.
Cheating is where losers and wannabees go when they realize the other competitor is just plain better.
Cheating is for the weak.
Johnny was a great player and should not have to answer endless "Pete" questions every interview he does.
He needs some blue emu
lol true
Sure he broke the rules.. But you can't keep the greatest Hitter in the history of the game out because he broke some rules... The punishment doesn't fit the crime!
I've never heard he bet against his team to lose, that would be a crime to fit the punishment...
Let's just say the Reds had a 3 game series over the weekend. Pete knows the rotation coming into the weekend, so he feels he has a great chance the Reds will win Saturday. So...first he doesn't bet Friday's game, or maybe he puts on a small wager just because he loves action. On Friday, in a close game, he decides not to use a particular reliever or 2 because he wants them fresh in case they are needed for Saturday's game. On Saturday, he loads up on the Reds for his bet. After a few times doing this, the bookies start catching on to the betting pattern, and thus they now have important information for the betting world. I hope this helps explain why betting on these games is horrible for any sport when you have control of the game as a manager or as a player. The punishment certainly fits the crime in this case, and it was written in every clubhouse. It's a shame he spent so many waking hours studying what to bet on instead of trying to manage that team to a World Series. The team was in place to win multiple championships, so at least when he was finally gone, they had a manager purely focused on winning and amazingly they went wire to wire without him betting from his office or the dugout 5 minutes before game time.
He broke the rules, it's as simple as that. There's no argument, period
Others Broke rules. But hey drugs are ok to use in the MLB.
@@toyman81 tell it to the commish
toyman81 Not all rules that are broken are created equal. Betting artificially alters the outcome of the game. You can control more of the outcome of the game through betting than with PEDs. And as a manager, you even have more control if you’re betting on the game. It’s the ultimate sin for a reason. It might as well be the WWE if you’re going to do that.
So fine him. Not _any_ punishment suits any broken rule. I’m sure you’ve never broken a rule in your life stonethrower
Loved Pete Rose back in the day. Lost all respect when he was caught gambling. Doesn't matter to me if he's in the HOF or not.
What is the mentality behind "I lost all respect....". Do you think you're Pete Rose's mother (in law) or what?
@@xxxYYZxxx No Pete. Stop trolling. We are not related. You can gamble. It's all ok to do now
I liked what Bench said about kids. Tell your kids there are no rules. They'll love that.
Whatever the circumstances, it is a damn shame that the all time hits leader is not allowed in the Hall of Fame. 😥
You're right and Rose himself is the only one to blame.
@@NortonsNestMonthly No proof that Rose the player bet on baseball which is why he should get into the HOF
Ichiro Suzuki is the all-time hits leader, and he’ll be making a speech in Cooperstown soon enough.
@@jaymule7342 ......lol! He admitted to it. Dude, educate yourself before you make a comment. 😅😅
@@jaymule7342 Maybe you missed all the news about the witnesses and all the evidence that the Dowd Report presented. Or perhaps you missed Pete's interview where after years of denial he finally admitted to it.
Yes Pete Rose should of come clean years ago.Even convicted felon’s and murder’s are given second chance.All time hits leader a record that will probably never be broken put the man in the HOF!!!!
Pete was in jail for this? OMG what have I missed over the last 30 years.
Johnny Bench you might be a legend but as a life long 24 year old baseball fan I still had to look you up to see who you was…..I’ve known who Pete Rose is my whole life, based on that statement alone I think we can see who really deserve the HOF
As I watch MLB Network and see the sports betting odds scrolling across the bottom of the screen, see and hear the MLB broadcast personalities promoting fantasy sports betting on air, and see sports gambling companies as major sponsors of MLB; it's time to reinstate Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and induct them into the Hall of Fame. If MLB is going to actively and blatantly encourage people to bet money on MLB games by promoting sports gambling in an invasive manner, what Pete and Joe did doesn't matter anymore.
Bet offerings are for public, not for active players or managers lol
Being a hardcore Dodger fan in the 70's, I hated Rose & the Reds, but to keep a guy/rose that had more hits, than anyone that has ever played the game, is just stupid, the HOF is for what the players did On the field, not off. btw the 1919 white soxs players took money to Lose, aka to take a dive like in boxing.
And none of them are in. No proof that Shoeless Joe Jackson threw any games and he is not in either. His lying and lack of contrition are big reasons he is not in
Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame! There was nobody better nor anyone who played harder. He gave everything to the game. He was also so entertaining.
Rose did nothing to negatively detract from the sport! Such as cheating, drugs, alcohol, sexual or physical abuse like so many have been caught doing! Punishing him for gambling is tantamount to a cop giving you a speeding ticket for 5 mph over while a car full of drunk, high, popular kids speeds by doing 90 mph over! These powers that be i'm sure did much worse! He who is without sin cast the first stone! This needs to be undone! Rose is one of the GOATS!
Your missing the point, they wanted him to confess. If he did, he's in. He's a stubborn prick.
👍👍
Gambling on your own team is in fact CHEATING, and in a major way. The consensus at the time of the investigation was that he not only bet on his team to win, but also to lose. The investigation was ended as soon as it was about to tackle that question. He changed his story too many times after too many false denials; all which he had to flip-flop on once proof of guilt was shown. There's not a reason in this world to take him at his word on this matter.
Johnny Bench is some old doofus who naps in the afternoon and then goes for the early bird special at his local Denny's. Johnny...Pete Rose deserves the Baseball Hall of Fame and should join you there.
Uncle Elmer Johnny bench is one of the greatest catchers to ever play, I don’t agree with his opinion but the guy was a hell of a catcher.
I totally disagree , Pete Rose was mister baseball , no one played harder , he revolutionized the head first slide.
You're right! It would be fine if he cheated, if he lied, if he associated with gangsters and it affected his team, that he made critical decisions thinking about the bets he has out there. None of that should keep him from the HOF. Really?
Yeah...lyin and cheatin are becoming more acceptable year after year - just work on “the victim” image, and your all set.
Man what a blockheads. He disses his own teammate who helped him many times. H.o.f. suppose to be about on the field . And Rose is one of the top 2 in many offense statistics / numbers. He saw him , millions too and we know he's one of the best .
No doubt. Then leave it at that. Why push the hof. You miss the who point. no he does not belong and never will be enshrined. Never
The Baseball HOF is the only one of the major sports, that has a “character clause”. In other words: OFF field character is to be considered as a factor, when voting for enshrinement. So, it is not entirely “about on the field”.
You know who else doesn't belong in sports halls of fame? Announcers, commentators, and talent scouts.
Pete Rose is one of the most arrogant people that ever played the game. That character flaw is exactly why he lied and why he didn't admit to what he did and why he didn't sign anything identifying his guilt. No way should he be in the HOF.
cii1072
And Ty Cobb?
@@SteveCherches What about Ty Cobb? What did he do to be kept out of the Hall of Fame?