This is really hard. I had to end a relationship 4 months ago with a man who had a late in life autism diagnosis. He was also abusive. He did all the things described in the analysis of narcissistic behavior. It was uncanny. Unfortunately, I gave him so much benefit of the doubt because he was autistic and it really ended up hurting me. At the end of the relationship I worked hard to set boundaries, react more calmly and all it did was escalate his abuse. It’s unfortunate that people often think someone can’t be autistic and narcissistic. In my case it felt like that’s exactly who he was.
Hi Shelley. I had a very similar experience myself. I dated someone for over 2 years that I knew was autistic. He had two autistic children as well. Being a specialist in autism I gave him so much grace but didn’t recognize his covert narcissism (which is the most difficult to spot). Eventually, after considerable pain and trauma, I came to see the clear signs of the narcissistic abuse cycle: love bombing, devaluing discarding along with tactics such as triangulation, gaslighting, stonewalling, mocking, and more. After I left that relationship, close to 5 years ago, I have heard about his ongoing relationships with women through mutual friends and have seen how he keeps a harem of women. He recycles them through his life while triangulating them all to demean each of them. He lovebombs one while stonewalling/discarding another. I have had some of them reach out to me for clarity and insight. That relationship taught me so much and gave me considerable insight about a couple other relationships I’ve had in my lifetime where I clearly see autism combined with narcissism. I also have many relationships with autistic family members and friends who are not at all narcissistic. It is such a completely different dynamic without the narcissism. There is deep and profound mutual love in those relationships. I’m glad you were able to get out of the narcissistic relationship you were in. They are truly devastating. ❤️🩹
@@JodiCarltonThere's the pathological lying part. It's like he just makes up rules as he goes along. Sad part is it's my son. I wondered if schizophrenia was involved, because of the lies or delusions.
@@muma6559 He was ADHD, but smart and friendly, but he became kind of hostile and introverted as a teenager. Started listening to Alex Jones stuff, too. Started saying things like he couldn't do something, or eat something because of some outlandish excuse.
I completely agree with you, those type of negative self centered behaviors aren't a part of autism. I have several close friends and family members who are autistic, and while they can absolutely be socially oblivious and carelessly (accidentally) say hurtful things, once they've realized they hurt someone they are *deeply* sorry and feel terrible. Autism does not make someone unloving or uncaring. But regardless, if someone is being continuously hurtful, whether by accident or on purpose, and especially if they aren't apologetic and don't change their behaviors, you DO NOT need to tolerate that, regardless of their diagnosis. Keep yourself safe 🫶🏼🫶🏼
Literally this. I get having a mental diagnosis. But they use it as a crutch for bad behavior/abuse. I’m sorry but a mental diagnosis should never ever be used as a crutch for mistreating people. They should first seek plenty help. Mental health is so important.
I am in healthcare ( home services) I have worked with a non verbal autistic male that exhibits signs of narcissism. He laughs each time you speak to him about not touching you, blocking your way, and forcing himself into his Staffs room. He punches walls to exert control and dominance but NEVER do these things in public settings ( Day program) He follows and harasses his Staff, and roomate at home but acts like an angel in other settings in public. His family members gaslights his Staff about their loved one’s behavior but refuses to let him live with them. In my experience the physical or mental disabilities are more of a focus and personality disorders are oftentimes not even considered. I can only imagine how his behavior will progress in his 50’s etc his behavior analyst has no clue about his possible personality disorder ( I say possible because he hasn’t been officially diagnosed, but I have lived with him so I know for a fact he is a narcissist)
I have just found your channel after searching for how autistic people deal with narcissistic abuse. I am non-binary (afab) and was diagnosed with level 2 ASD last year at 38. I have also spent my WHOLE life being subjected to narcissistic abuse, first from my father and then from my husband. Now it wouldn't surprise me if both of them also had ASD as they both have a lot of symptoms but I believe rather than their abusive behaviour being a result of autism, that they might have NPD + ASD, or maybe ASPD + ASD.... even my psychologist has had something similar. Please don't automatically lump ASD in with the narcissists, 99% of those with autism make our OWN lives difficult by trying not to upset everyone else. I know its hard to ro tell from the outside as narcissists are fantastic at hiding their personaliy from the outside world, usually theu present a front of "im a caring person. Im so helpful. Im smart." and it usually takes a while before you see its all a lie. Its hard enough when your own brain tells you its your fault, but for strangers to assume you are the narcissist and not the survivor just because you have autism helps no one except the actual narcissist...... and that thinking is probably why it took me 10 years to realise i was in an abusive relationship. Thank you talking about this
Thank you for sharing your experience with this. I completely agree with you and have created a course and a quiz to help people recognize the differences in autistic versus narcissistic traits. One last note...I highly doubt that you are level 2 autistic. I'm not doubting the autism but the level. Moderate (or level 2) autistics are unable to live independently without supports (like special housing or with parents). It's rare to see level 2 autistics married. I'm not invalidating your traits or characteristics - but want to clarify regarding the diagnostic level.
Neurotypicals assume that they understand Autistic people better than we can understand ourselves. This is an example of Milton's Double Empathy Problem. I'll let our Autism expert tell us all about the Double Empathy Problem. Then you can tell us why the Autistic community doesn't use functioning levels anymore and what we use instead.
Also this absolutely is invalidating 😊 when NTs do this because you're the one who is showing us how little you understand Autistic people by lumping them in "functioning levels" and assuming that we are all similar when we are all different. Our ability to function goes down during the day and is affected by so many things. For example if someone just has been diagnosed as a level ends up in Autistic burnout because they have been socialising and masking and they haven't been able to recharge properly they could enter burnout and temporarily lose their ability to speak and function. Someone in that state happened to have an appointment for their ASD tomorrow and it can take up to 3 months to fully recharge.... So if they are diagnosed during the time when they can't speak or look after themselves properly, what "functioning level" do you think that they would be diagnosed with? Yeah, that's why we don't use functioning levels. We say that we are all Autistic we look at the "support needs" of every individual, because different people have different support needs.
I am glad she got out of this relationship but as an undiagnosed autistic person I have a hard time not taking offense to her post. This man was obviously a narcissist.
Nah. A lot of abuse targets grew up being abused by their parents -- they literally do not know any better because their parents failed them. They don't know how to assess danger risk in relationships. It takes learning that as an adult.
@@athens31415 spot on. that behavior is normal when you grow up around someone like this. my first introduction was my mother, who is probably that classic case of npd/asd, and let me tell you... It wrecks you.
My ex had an apparent Aspergers diagnosis. He was abusive, verbally. A gaslighter, blame shifter. Massive hypocrite and knew how to manipulate to get what he wanted. He liked being with people, so wasn’t socially awkward. Needed people to like him. Would use people as stepping stones. Loved to watch porn and secretly be on date sites. I didn’t feel he had Aspergers - he was more ticking the narcissistic boxes
thank you, kind lady Jodi. Autism is on a spectrum and it kind of stays at the degree of severity, but narcissism only gets worse with age, they get more and more lost as they take more and more wrong turns in life
As a probably autistic woman, I can say I am not abusive, but I can be higher maintenance and aggravating at times. I need this a certain way and that a certain way and it must irritate my husband for sure. Thing is he knows the one spoon I'll use, or how wide he has to leave the door open to the bedroom (maybe that's ocd, not autism, not sure, either way I stress if it is not exact). I don't change the rules the way a narcissist would. Narcisists are always changing things so you can never get them right and they will never thank you for getting it right. I am so thankful when my husband remembers something a certain way. Also there are the times he has to take over something like making dinner because I am overwhelmed, or in the middle of shopping together I say I have to go to the car. But extra care for your partner is not the same as being abused.
The diff is you try to do the same when you see he's suffering, right? That's at least how I try to even it out... And I know I'm so incredibly patient with him
@JodiCarlton if they do not communicate they know It Will never be a Good relationship and if they aren't willing to find another way to communicate, that means they don't care. I couldn't talk when I was younger ( asd1) but I communicated by writing it on paper and handed that over to my bf, he then answered vocally and then I would reply via a written note, and so we had Good conversations. You can even Share a favorite song or song that applies in that moment, what you want to communicate but can't vocalize. There are More ways than Just Talking.. So if you don't use any of them then you Don't Care. 🤷🏻♀️ Ps: My S.O. is also asd1 .
I am SO gratefull for your video's!!! Especially this subject!!! I feel supported by it, and was looking so bad for information about autistic abuse etc because of my autistic mum. Also,have been abused 22 years by autistic + narcissistic "friend". Thank you so much!!!
Thank you, I just found your channel and appreciate your discussing the differences between narcissism and autism mindset and behaviors. I was raised by narcissistic parents and my late husband was similar but not quite the same. His oldest son was nonverbal autistic. Our 2 sons have ADHD (strong family trait on my side), and autism was discussed but never quite officially diagnosed. I’ve been reading about narcissism for years and now I realized I need to understand autism better.
My husband is diagnosed as autistic. And I lived things like that. He acts not really by purpose, but his own goals are the most important for ihm: for exampel : I clamed help for the 4 kids in the swimming pool, he helpt for 5 minutes, because it is not really " his thing", then he left. One dougter drowned allmost. Often he is not aware of the consequences, he does not listen what other person'sare telling him,his perception is the most important. I can imagin that in this exampel the sleep was the most important and he ist not aware of the hard consequences for the women.
Jodi is 100 percent on the money with this. From my own experience as a Man with Autism and one that went un-diagnosed much of his life.... I have never found it comfortable to go into detail about past sexual experiences when dating a woman. I used to get nervous and shake uncontrollably about even trying a first kiss. For one thing, I'm never even sure how much they actually WANT to hear about it even if they asked. I'm certainly not keen on going to a place and being like "yeah me and so and so did sexual things here". TO me I would assume someone who does so, intends to hurt me or make me feel jealous. I would legitimately wonder WTF they were telling me this for? Now, I have had GFs(now exes lol) start going into sexual details that I never asked to hear about and then try to gaslight me into thinking that I am insecure, because I don't want to lend them an ear. "you're so insecure, so weird, a real man wouldn't be bothered by that, etc.." Dude, I don't want to imagine anyone but me in THAT intimate situation, I know it happened, but you can definitely spare me those details. It's a very awful thing to do and to me appears to be a mechanism employed to control someone with jealousy and drive insecurity in us. Now the "I won't lose any sleep" part is Sooooooo NARCISSISTIC. I feel deep emotion when I care for someone, I am just not always great at expressing it or reading certain cues. Regulating my emotions is the tough part for me, not so much being devoid of them. We aren't people without feelings but we are people who FEEL DIFFERENTLY and have a tough time expressing it and reading social queues. The only benefit of doubt I can give to the abuser in the situation is they may have been traumatized or neglected. Unfortunately this seems common for un-diagnosed ones. But clearly they suffer an awful case of NPD and for whatever reason or circumstance. So, sadly this woman may go on to label all autistic or un-diagnosed autistic men in this sort of way. It's not correct. If anything, losing someone I love could devastate me, I've been dumped by a person that I really cared for and it took years to be truly over it. Had a relationship that lasted a couple months prior to that, took like a year to be ready again to meet someone else. Of course, this was while un-diagnosed. Sorry for the rant but this was awful that this person got gaslighted and abused so badly, that they ended up misunderstanding Autism vs NPD. I do hope they will understand that there truly is a huge difference.
Hello! I missed seeing your comment initially, and I'm glad I ran across it now. Thank you for sharing your experiences here - I know many other people will benefit from hearing your insights. I totally agree that sharing intimate details about sex with former partners is a totally disrespectful thing to do and something that someone will use to gaslight just as you described. Major red flag! 🚩🚩
I understand the importance to differentiate the two, but I'm still wondering about correlation. How do we know he understood that explaining to her his past sexual experience was unwelcome? I find it so difficult to determine intent especially when lying is an issue.
All by itself that behavior would be hard to peg as intentional (telling her about his past sexual experiences). Some autistic individuals really might not recognize the harm in those details. It’s the pattern of behavior that reveals more about the individual that was described.
Iam with a none diagnose narcissistic adhd all toguether very verbally abusive I was ignorant I tought this person could change but never did they literatelly make your life hell but thank god I finally wake up and leaving forever so sad it took me to long to realize this people never change People just walk away is not worth it
Narc's can easily fall asleep, me - I stay up until I collapse, because that & true acceptance of who I am/what I like/my limits/my desires, are the ONLY things that allows me to fall asleep - instead of ruminating for hours about my inadequacies? What would you do? Very very very few ASD men can pick up a women in 2 months, even Bill Gates can't, so unlikely that he is autistic... but we can't tell. So when I tell my NT-wife that I can't pick her up in case of an emergency, within the first few days after a VERY VERY intense fight, is it not because I don't care, it is because I feel so hurt, that I am afraid of being emotionally & verbally attacked again - i.e. I don't feel safe enough, to "save" her. It is not resentment, it is not resistance, it is pure fear of being re-assaulted. Yet, she continues to attack me to get me to meet her needs. I say, let's have a positive connection, without any demands or negative feelings being projected. She can't? Why? Now my energy levels are so low, that I can't and won't push through to be-there for our 3 boys, because I have a job to maintain, etc. Will she ever understand my limitations, or just keep attacking to get what she want/expects?
Hi Lars. Attacking a partner is not acceptable (or productive) regardless of neurodiversity. Expectations are not rules or obligations - many people struggle with this concept, both neurodivergent and neurotypical. The exhaustion you're describing is common when couples recycle through the same issues when one partner is disappointed/dissatisfied with the other, and neither knows how to find a solution. I recommend a neurodiverse-aware therapist/coach for you, individually, or together as a couple.
The weird thing about all this is how long this woman remained in this relationship, even engaged, but this is a common problem, not being able to see problem people.., Sometimes it's because the other person was brought up in dysfunctional relationship and either can't see the madness or feels comfortable in it..
Yes -- a lot of knowing how to protect yourself is taught when you're a child by your parents, family, and community. If you grew up in a dysfunctional family environment, you won't get that knowledge at all. So it takes people years to learn the reality unfortunately. And some people never actually do learn, sadly. That's intergenerational trauma for you.
How do people acquire cluster b personality traits? It is often a result of childhood neglect and abuse. Well, autistic children are likely to be abused and victimized and grow into an adult who is deeply affected by unprocessed childhood trauma . Therefore, I would say that autistic children are at a higher risk to incur trauma and not process it. Such was the case with my ex, who blamed the divorce on me not accepting her as autistic. I told her many times that her foundation for life, aka childhood was extremely traumatic and not addressed properly. It was her unprocessed trauma that was holding her back from being the person she had the potential to be. Processing trauma is extremely difficult and painful. She couldn’t not process because she could not withstand the pain of opening those mental and emotional wounds. Well, I understand that, because I had to undergo through the same process with a lot less trauma. Eventually,I had tp self partner, and after a while, I simply could not carry the burden of the if the loneliest relationship I have been with.
Research still doesn’t have a definitive answer about what causes cluster B personality traits. However we do know that genetics as well as excessive praise and minimal boundaries are a risk factor for narcissism- not just abuse. Although many autistic children are abused and neglected, autism is not caused by trauma. Also autism does not go hand in hand with cluster B personality although some traits can seem similar.
I have kind of lived with autostic people for all my live. My whole family os autostic...all my "friends " were...same as my Student colleges. My Sport mates were. And my "boyfriends" all well. Autostic people most often are HIGHLY narcisstistic and also very often abusive. Very harmful as well, sometimes unintionally. Autistiv women csn be toxic as fuck. There s also the other ones... The really kind ones and respectful ones. Bit I have had plant of Bad experiences with autistic people. People can also have both....autism and narcissisticpersonality disorder. Really bad, really bad. Mixed with sometimes hig IQ ... ....
An information dump may be interpreted many ways, and without being given a boundary , could seem abusive, rather than inclusive. I am confused and interested in learning more about how he became a single parent of 5. I thought a narcissist would prefer going solo, rather than be burdened. Seems to me there may be a lot more to this detail. I am suspicious of the selected details shared by the commenter...there is often more to any story. I agree to err on the side of personal safety. I will concede to the more experienced when it comes to patterns observed.
Nope, that is the opposite of autistic. Autistic people do not lie and do not cheat and can not stand ypocrisy it would explode an autistic person's brain trying to live like that, we need consistance in our lives of how we behave and can't handle being different in different situations well.
Autistic individuals can lie. Years ago I used to think they couldn’t (or weren’t likely to lie), but I’ve seen it way too much now. Sometimes it’s lying in the same way a child or teen lies to avoid conflict or to “get out of trouble,” but also autistics who have coexisting toxic personalities use lying to control and manipulate others.
@@JodiCarlton If I threaton or attack someone and they hit me, its unfair to claim this person hits people. You would be given an incorrect impression of the person. Entrapment is a practice in which a law enforcement agent or an agent of the state induces a person to commit a crime that the person would have otherwise been unlikely or unwilling to commit. The same goes for an autistic person "lying" you can not pur a person in an unsafe situation and claim they lie that is entrapment. If you do not have a safe enviorment you are not entilted to some to talk freely, this is goes for everyone not just autisti people.
I agree with you regarding the concept of entrapment, but this is not the only scenario in which autistic individuals lie. To clarify, I'm basing my perspective from meeting and learning from literally thousands of autistic individuals in the last 20 years. It was the autistics who taught me they can and DO lie when they feel justified - it's not just because of being in an unsafe environment.
@@JodiCarlton You're spot on, I also met a ton of them, people can't reconcile how someone they view as pitiful and harmless, is capable of such things, which is why it's incredibly easy for them to do so.
I am autistic myself(diagnosed and everything). And I can lie and I did sometimes in the past. But- and that part fits- if I really do, it keeps me awake. I have done some real bad shit in the past because I didn’t know it better- and I learned of it. Some of those mistakes from years ago still keep me awake. But I learned, that if I wouldn’t do it the same way today- it’s ok. So always- when it keeps me awake- I ask myself „Would I do it today the same way?“ It’s human nature to make mistakes from time to time. And that helps me a lot.
I was so disappointed to find your channel full of scary, negative and misleading information about autistic people. I'm autistic and have suffered mental, emotional, physical and sexual abuse at the hands of a malignant narcissist, and I was sent to a women's shelter immediately from the therapist I had made an appointment with. She said I had to speak to the therapist there who specializes in these types of abusive relationships. I had no idea it was abuse because I believed all the lies he told me about how what he was doing and wanting and out-right demanding was normal, and that i was a horrible partner because I was refusing and reluctant to participate in what he wanted. There's way more to this than what I've said, but I just don't understand the videos you post that seem to be created by someone who doesn't know what ASD actually is or understand the difference between actual autistic traits and traits of other issues. I don't know any autistic people who make a habit of lying, for starters, with everyone I know often getting themselves into trouble for being blunt and unfiltered, myself included. I try to be mindful, but lying makes no sense to me and serves no purpose. And gaslighting is a form of lying that is very dark, very harmful, and it requires a lot of work on the gaslighter to keep the lie going. I was gaslit so bad by a completely neurotypical guy that I actually questioned everything about me, about my life, about my experiences, and I was so confused after 3 years of being with him that I sought help because I was falling apart, afraid of my own shadow, and I was having periods of shut down that were getting harder and harder to recover from. Autistic people, btw, don't lack empathy and usually have more than the average person. The double-empathy problem brings yet another issue into this whole thing. The term "Narcissist" has gotten so overused that most people don't even know the difference between a narcissist and person who is just plain mean. But what I see in comments on your videos are a lot of people simply looking for something or someone to blame their experiences on. If someone feels like they're being abused, then leave. There shouldn't be a question about if you should or not. That's what I had to learn through a therapist. If it turns out the autistic person in your life is abusive, then you've done the right thing by leaving, and if the autistic person in your life actually isn't being abusive.. then it's best that they not be with you. One thing i learned in therapy after being with a malignant narcissist will project their worst traits onto you, and to me that is one of the most dangerous traits narcissists have. They are completely aware of what they're doing and how it will affect you, and every move they make is thought out, calculated, has a goal and desired result. This I learned about while in therapy. If you've been with an actual narcissist, once someone points out to you what they are and what they're doing... you won't ever forget it. After going through what I went through at the hands of a dangerous narcissist it makes me sad to see autism being compared to narcissistic traits, and there's already so much hate and bullying out there towards autistic people, and it's actually scary seeing people flock here looking for something or someone to blame and landing on 'autism' to lay that blame upon. As an autistic person I have been victim to sexual assault, serious physical abuse, emotional and mental abuse from very early childhood into adulthood, all by neurotypical people. Don't demonize autistic people or encourage others to do the same. Maybe you don;'t mean to do that, but just reading the comments on some of your videos (I've only watched a few) people are taking information and attitudes and opinions and running with it, putting many autistic adults at risk. Please consider that many autistic adults may be viewing your videos thinking maybe they can learn something about having a better relationship with their neurotypical partners. That's how I began watching your videos. But as I looked through the list of videos and titles it became sad and frightening to see so much negativity, and the feel of the videos and comments are so dark and depressing, and very scary.
This is really hard. I had to end a relationship 4 months ago with a man who had a late in life autism diagnosis. He was also abusive. He did all the things described in the analysis of narcissistic behavior. It was uncanny. Unfortunately, I gave him so much benefit of the doubt because he was autistic and it really ended up hurting me. At the end of the relationship I worked hard to set boundaries, react more calmly and all it did was escalate his abuse. It’s unfortunate that people often think someone can’t be autistic and narcissistic. In my case it felt like that’s exactly who he was.
Hi Shelley. I had a very similar experience myself. I dated someone for over 2 years that I knew was autistic. He had two autistic children as well. Being a specialist in autism I gave him so much grace but didn’t recognize his covert narcissism (which is the most difficult to spot). Eventually, after considerable pain and trauma, I came to see the clear signs of the narcissistic abuse cycle: love bombing, devaluing discarding along with tactics such as triangulation, gaslighting, stonewalling, mocking, and more. After I left that relationship, close to 5 years ago, I have heard about his ongoing relationships with women through mutual friends and have seen how he keeps a harem of women. He recycles them through his life while triangulating them all to demean each of them. He lovebombs one while stonewalling/discarding another. I have had some of them reach out to me for clarity and insight. That relationship taught me so much and gave me considerable insight about a couple other relationships I’ve had in my lifetime where I clearly see autism combined with narcissism. I also have many relationships with autistic family members and friends who are not at all narcissistic. It is such a completely different dynamic without the narcissism. There is deep and profound mutual love in those relationships. I’m glad you were able to get out of the narcissistic relationship you were in. They are truly devastating. ❤️🩹
@@JodiCarltonThere's the pathological lying part. It's like he just makes up rules as he goes along. Sad part is it's my son. I wondered if schizophrenia was involved, because of the lies or delusions.
@@donnahilton471 what was his upbringing like?
@@muma6559 He was ADHD, but smart and friendly, but he became kind of hostile and introverted as a teenager. Started listening to Alex Jones stuff, too. Started saying things like he couldn't do something, or eat something because of some outlandish excuse.
I completely agree with you, those type of negative self centered behaviors aren't a part of autism. I have several close friends and family members who are autistic, and while they can absolutely be socially oblivious and carelessly (accidentally) say hurtful things, once they've realized they hurt someone they are *deeply* sorry and feel terrible. Autism does not make someone unloving or uncaring.
But regardless, if someone is being continuously hurtful, whether by accident or on purpose, and especially if they aren't apologetic and don't change their behaviors, you DO NOT need to tolerate that, regardless of their diagnosis. Keep yourself safe 🫶🏼🫶🏼
A mental diagnos should not be an excuse to bad behavior.😮
Literally this. I get having a mental diagnosis. But they use it as a crutch for bad behavior/abuse. I’m sorry but a mental diagnosis should never ever be used as a crutch for mistreating people. They should first seek plenty help. Mental health is so important.
I am in healthcare ( home services) I have worked with a non verbal autistic male that exhibits signs of narcissism.
He laughs each time you speak to him about not touching you, blocking your way, and forcing himself into his Staffs room.
He punches walls to exert control and dominance but NEVER do these things in public settings ( Day program)
He follows and harasses his Staff, and roomate at home but acts like an angel in other settings in public.
His family members gaslights his Staff about their loved one’s behavior but refuses to let him live with them.
In my experience the physical or mental disabilities are more of a focus and personality disorders are oftentimes not even considered.
I can only imagine how his behavior will progress in his 50’s etc his behavior analyst has no clue about his possible personality disorder ( I say possible because he hasn’t been officially diagnosed, but I have lived with him so I know for a fact he is a narcissist)
I have just found your channel after searching for how autistic people deal with narcissistic abuse.
I am non-binary (afab) and was diagnosed with level 2 ASD last year at 38. I have also spent my WHOLE life being subjected to narcissistic abuse, first from my father and then from my husband. Now it wouldn't surprise me if both of them also had ASD as they both have a lot of symptoms but I believe rather than their abusive behaviour being a result of autism, that they might have NPD + ASD, or maybe ASPD + ASD.... even my psychologist has had something similar.
Please don't automatically lump ASD in with the narcissists, 99% of those with autism make our OWN lives difficult by trying not to upset everyone else. I know its hard to ro tell from the outside as narcissists are fantastic at hiding their personaliy from the outside world, usually theu present a front of "im a caring person. Im so helpful. Im smart." and it usually takes a while before you see its all a lie. Its hard enough when your own brain tells you its your fault, but for strangers to assume you are the narcissist and not the survivor just because you have autism helps no one except the actual narcissist...... and that thinking is probably why it took me 10 years to realise i was in an abusive relationship.
Thank you talking about this
Thank you for sharing your experience with this. I completely agree with you and have created a course and a quiz to help people recognize the differences in autistic versus narcissistic traits. One last note...I highly doubt that you are level 2 autistic. I'm not doubting the autism but the level. Moderate (or level 2) autistics are unable to live independently without supports (like special housing or with parents). It's rare to see level 2 autistics married. I'm not invalidating your traits or characteristics - but want to clarify regarding the diagnostic level.
Neurotypicals assume that they understand Autistic people better than we can understand ourselves.
This is an example of Milton's Double Empathy Problem. I'll let our Autism expert tell us all about the Double Empathy Problem.
Then you can tell us why the Autistic community doesn't use functioning levels anymore and what we use instead.
Also this absolutely is invalidating 😊 when NTs do this because you're the one who is showing us how little you understand Autistic people by lumping them in "functioning levels" and assuming that we are all similar when we are all different. Our ability to function goes down during the day and is affected by so many things.
For example if someone just has been diagnosed as a level ends up in Autistic burnout because they have been socialising and masking and they haven't been able to recharge properly they could enter burnout and temporarily lose their ability to speak and function.
Someone in that state happened to have an appointment for their ASD tomorrow and it can take up to 3 months to fully recharge.... So if they are diagnosed during the time when they can't speak or look after themselves properly, what "functioning level" do you think that they would be diagnosed with?
Yeah, that's why we don't use functioning levels. We say that we are all Autistic we look at the "support needs" of every individual, because different people have different support needs.
I am glad she got out of this relationship but as an undiagnosed autistic person I have a hard time not taking offense to her post. This man was obviously a narcissist.
Sometimes you are in the wrong for staying with someone like this.
Nah. A lot of abuse targets grew up being abused by their parents -- they literally do not know any better because their parents failed them. They don't know how to assess danger risk in relationships. It takes learning that as an adult.
@@athens31415 spot on. that behavior is normal when you grow up around someone like this. my first introduction was my mother, who is probably that classic case of npd/asd, and let me tell you... It wrecks you.
My ex had Asperger's and was a narcissist.
It is a great misfortune if autistic children are raised by narcissistic parents or alcoholics and do not have positive role models.
My ex had an apparent Aspergers diagnosis.
He was abusive, verbally. A gaslighter, blame shifter. Massive hypocrite and knew how to manipulate to get what he wanted.
He liked being with people, so wasn’t socially awkward. Needed people to like him. Would use people as stepping stones. Loved to watch porn and secretly be on date sites.
I didn’t feel he had Aspergers - he was more ticking the narcissistic boxes
thank you, kind lady Jodi. Autism is on a spectrum and it kind of stays at the degree of severity, but narcissism only gets worse with age, they get more and more lost as they take more and more wrong turns in life
As a probably autistic woman, I can say I am not abusive, but I can be higher maintenance and aggravating at times. I need this a certain way and that a certain way and it must irritate my husband for sure. Thing is he knows the one spoon I'll use, or how wide he has to leave the door open to the bedroom (maybe that's ocd, not autism, not sure, either way I stress if it is not exact). I don't change the rules the way a narcissist would. Narcisists are always changing things so you can never get them right and they will never thank you for getting it right. I am so thankful when my husband remembers something a certain way. Also there are the times he has to take over something like making dinner because I am overwhelmed, or in the middle of shopping together I say I have to go to the car. But extra care for your partner is not the same as being abused.
The diff is you try to do the same when you see he's suffering, right? That's at least how I try to even it out... And I know I'm so incredibly patient with him
@@t3hsis324 yes, that is exactly it.
Not communicating and not caring are two different things. One is an autistic trait and the other is just not caring.
Very true!
@JodiCarlton if they do not communicate they know It Will never be a Good relationship and if they aren't willing to find another way to communicate, that means they don't care.
I couldn't talk when I was younger ( asd1) but I communicated by writing it on paper and handed that over to my bf, he then answered vocally and then I would reply via a written note, and so we had Good conversations. You can even Share a favorite song or song that applies in that moment, what you want to communicate but can't vocalize. There are More ways than Just Talking..
So if you don't use any of them then you Don't Care.
🤷🏻♀️
Ps: My S.O. is also asd1 .
I am SO gratefull for your video's!!! Especially this subject!!! I feel supported by it, and was looking so bad for information about autistic abuse etc because of my autistic mum. Also,have been abused 22 years by autistic + narcissistic "friend".
Thank you so much!!!
Thank you, I just found your channel and appreciate your discussing the differences between narcissism and autism mindset and behaviors. I was raised by narcissistic parents and my late husband was similar but not quite the same. His oldest son was nonverbal autistic. Our 2 sons have ADHD (strong family trait on my side), and autism was discussed but never quite officially diagnosed. I’ve been reading about narcissism for years and now I realized I need to understand autism better.
I’m glad this was helpful to you! I have a course that also may be helpful for you. You can find it at jodicarlton.com/courses
I don't know Autists who behave like thid, but ALL of the Narcissists I know
Yep...exactly!
My husband is diagnosed as autistic. And I lived things like that. He acts not really by purpose, but his own goals are the most important for ihm: for exampel : I clamed help for the 4 kids in the swimming pool, he helpt for 5 minutes, because it is not really " his thing", then he left. One dougter drowned allmost. Often he is not aware of the consequences, he does not listen what other person'sare telling him,his perception is the most important. I can imagin that in this exampel the sleep was the most important and he ist not aware of the hard consequences for the women.
Jodi is 100 percent on the money with this.
From my own experience as a Man with Autism and one that went un-diagnosed much of his life....
I have never found it comfortable to go into detail about past sexual experiences when dating a woman. I used to get nervous and shake uncontrollably about even trying a first kiss.
For one thing, I'm never even sure how much they actually WANT to hear about it even if they asked.
I'm certainly not keen on going to a place and being like "yeah me and so and so did sexual things here". TO me I would assume someone who does so, intends to hurt me or make me feel jealous. I would legitimately wonder WTF they were telling me this for?
Now, I have had GFs(now exes lol) start going into sexual details that I never asked to hear about and then try to gaslight me into thinking that I am insecure, because I don't want to lend them an ear. "you're so insecure, so weird, a real man wouldn't be bothered by that, etc.."
Dude, I don't want to imagine anyone but me in THAT intimate situation, I know it happened, but you can definitely spare me those details.
It's a very awful thing to do and to me appears to be a mechanism employed to control someone with jealousy and drive insecurity in us.
Now the "I won't lose any sleep" part is Sooooooo NARCISSISTIC.
I feel deep emotion when I care for someone, I am just not always great at expressing it or reading certain cues. Regulating my emotions is the tough part for me, not so much being devoid of them.
We aren't people without feelings but we are people who FEEL DIFFERENTLY and have a tough time expressing it and reading social queues.
The only benefit of doubt I can give to the abuser in the situation is they may have been traumatized or neglected. Unfortunately this seems common for un-diagnosed ones.
But clearly they suffer an awful case of NPD and for whatever reason or circumstance.
So, sadly this woman may go on to label all autistic or un-diagnosed autistic men in this sort of way.
It's not correct.
If anything, losing someone I love could devastate me, I've been dumped by a person that I really cared for and it took years to be truly over it. Had a relationship that lasted a couple months prior to that, took like a year to be ready again to meet someone else. Of course, this was while un-diagnosed.
Sorry for the rant but this was awful that this person got gaslighted and abused so badly, that they ended up misunderstanding Autism vs NPD.
I do hope they will understand that there truly is a huge difference.
Hello! I missed seeing your comment initially, and I'm glad I ran across it now. Thank you for sharing your experiences here - I know many other people will benefit from hearing your insights. I totally agree that sharing intimate details about sex with former partners is a totally disrespectful thing to do and something that someone will use to gaslight just as you described. Major red flag! 🚩🚩
Autism is a neurodivergent disorder. The appalling labelling of autistic people especially men is really problematic.
I understand the importance to differentiate the two, but I'm still wondering about correlation. How do we know he understood that explaining to her his past sexual experience was unwelcome? I find it so difficult to determine intent especially when lying is an issue.
All by itself that behavior would be hard to peg as intentional (telling her about his past sexual experiences). Some autistic individuals really might not recognize the harm in those details. It’s the pattern of behavior that reveals more about the individual that was described.
Iam with a none diagnose narcissistic adhd all toguether very verbally abusive I was ignorant I tought this person could change but never did they literatelly make your life hell but thank god I finally wake up and leaving forever so sad it took me to long to realize this people never change People just walk away is not worth it
Narc's can easily fall asleep, me - I stay up until I collapse, because that & true acceptance of who I am/what I like/my limits/my desires, are the ONLY things that allows me to fall asleep - instead of ruminating for hours about my inadequacies? What would you do? Very very very few ASD men can pick up a women in 2 months, even Bill Gates can't, so unlikely that he is autistic... but we can't tell.
So when I tell my NT-wife that I can't pick her up in case of an emergency, within the first few days after a VERY VERY intense fight, is it not because I don't care, it is because I feel so hurt, that I am afraid of being emotionally & verbally attacked again - i.e. I don't feel safe enough, to "save" her. It is not resentment, it is not resistance, it is pure fear of being re-assaulted. Yet, she continues to attack me to get me to meet her needs. I say, let's have a positive connection, without any demands or negative feelings being projected. She can't? Why?
Now my energy levels are so low, that I can't and won't push through to be-there for our 3 boys, because I have a job to maintain, etc.
Will she ever understand my limitations, or just keep attacking to get what she want/expects?
Hi Lars. Attacking a partner is not acceptable (or productive) regardless of neurodiversity. Expectations are not rules or obligations - many people struggle with this concept, both neurodivergent and neurotypical. The exhaustion you're describing is common when couples recycle through the same issues when one partner is disappointed/dissatisfied with the other, and neither knows how to find a solution. I recommend a neurodiverse-aware therapist/coach for you, individually, or together as a couple.
The weird thing about all this is how long this woman remained in this relationship, even engaged, but this is a common problem, not being able to see problem people.., Sometimes it's because the other person was brought up in dysfunctional relationship and either can't see the madness or feels comfortable in it..
Yes -- a lot of knowing how to protect yourself is taught when you're a child by your parents, family, and community. If you grew up in a dysfunctional family environment, you won't get that knowledge at all. So it takes people years to learn the reality unfortunately. And some people never actually do learn, sadly. That's intergenerational trauma for you.
Autism and narcissism are completely unrelated except in the people who are diagnosed autistic and narcissistic
How do people acquire cluster b personality traits? It is often a result of childhood neglect and abuse.
Well, autistic children are likely to be abused and victimized and grow into an adult who is deeply affected by unprocessed childhood trauma .
Therefore, I would say that autistic children are at a higher risk to incur trauma and not process it.
Such was the case with my ex, who blamed the divorce on me not accepting her as autistic. I told her many times that her foundation for life, aka childhood was extremely traumatic and not addressed properly.
It was her unprocessed trauma that was holding her back from being the person she had the potential to be.
Processing trauma is extremely difficult and painful. She couldn’t not process because she could not withstand the pain of opening those mental and emotional wounds.
Well, I understand that, because I had to undergo through the same process with a lot less trauma.
Eventually,I had tp self partner, and after a while, I simply could not carry the burden of the if the loneliest relationship I have been with.
Research still doesn’t have a definitive answer about what causes cluster B personality traits. However we do know that genetics as well as excessive praise and minimal boundaries are a risk factor for narcissism- not just abuse. Although many autistic children are abused and neglected, autism is not caused by trauma. Also autism does not go hand in hand with cluster B personality although some traits can seem similar.
Yes, too little people validate this, it's highly possible.
Undiagnosed autistic man? Well of he's undiagnosed than he might not be autistic but might ass wel be sociopathic or psychopathic or narcissistic.
I have kind of lived with autostic people for all my live. My whole family os autostic...all my "friends " were...same as my Student colleges. My Sport mates were.
And my "boyfriends" all well.
Autostic people most often are HIGHLY narcisstistic and also very often abusive. Very harmful as well, sometimes unintionally.
Autistiv women csn be toxic as fuck.
There s also the other ones...
The really kind ones and respectful ones.
Bit I have had plant of Bad experiences with autistic people.
People can also have both....autism and narcissisticpersonality disorder.
Really bad, really bad.
Mixed with sometimes hig IQ ...
....
Her tale reads like a Reddit post.
Absolutely sad narcissist everywhere
I think you were dealing with a narcissist/possible ASPD
An information dump may be interpreted many ways, and without being given a boundary , could seem abusive, rather than inclusive. I am confused and interested in learning more about how he became a single parent of 5. I thought a narcissist would prefer going solo, rather than be burdened. Seems to me there may be a lot more to this detail. I am suspicious of the selected details shared by the commenter...there is often more to any story. I agree to err on the side of personal safety. I will concede to the more experienced when it comes to patterns observed.
Better pray to god and in final god come with justice and peace only
Nope, that is the opposite of autistic. Autistic people do not lie and do not cheat and can not stand ypocrisy it would explode an autistic person's brain trying to live like that, we need consistance in our lives of how we behave and can't handle being different in different situations well.
Autistic individuals can lie. Years ago I used to think they couldn’t (or weren’t likely to lie), but I’ve seen it way too much now. Sometimes it’s lying in the same way a child or teen lies to avoid conflict or to “get out of trouble,” but also autistics who have coexisting toxic personalities use lying to control and manipulate others.
@@JodiCarlton If I threaton or attack someone and they hit me, its unfair to claim this person hits people. You would be given an incorrect impression of the person.
Entrapment is a practice in which a law enforcement agent or an agent of the state induces a person to commit a crime that the person would have otherwise been unlikely or unwilling to commit.
The same goes for an autistic person "lying" you can not pur a person in an unsafe situation and claim they lie that is entrapment.
If you do not have a safe enviorment you are not entilted to some to talk freely, this is goes for everyone not just autisti people.
I agree with you regarding the concept of entrapment, but this is not the only scenario in which autistic individuals lie. To clarify, I'm basing my perspective from meeting and learning from literally thousands of autistic individuals in the last 20 years. It was the autistics who taught me they can and DO lie when they feel justified - it's not just because of being in an unsafe environment.
@@JodiCarlton You're spot on, I also met a ton of them, people can't reconcile how someone they view as pitiful and harmless, is capable of such things, which is why it's incredibly easy for them to do so.
I am autistic myself(diagnosed and everything). And I can lie and I did sometimes in the past. But- and that part fits- if I really do, it keeps me awake. I have done some real bad shit in the past because I didn’t know it better- and I learned of it. Some of those mistakes from years ago still keep me awake. But I learned, that if I wouldn’t do it the same way today- it’s ok. So always- when it keeps me awake- I ask myself „Would I do it today the same way?“ It’s human nature to make mistakes from time to time. And that helps me a lot.
I was so disappointed to find your channel full of scary, negative and misleading information about autistic people. I'm autistic and have suffered mental, emotional, physical and sexual abuse at the hands of a malignant narcissist, and I was sent to a women's shelter immediately from the therapist I had made an appointment with. She said I had to speak to the therapist there who specializes in these types of abusive relationships. I had no idea it was abuse because I believed all the lies he told me about how what he was doing and wanting and out-right demanding was normal, and that i was a horrible partner because I was refusing and reluctant to participate in what he wanted. There's way more to this than what I've said, but I just don't understand the videos you post that seem to be created by someone who doesn't know what ASD actually is or understand the difference between actual autistic traits and traits of other issues.
I don't know any autistic people who make a habit of lying, for starters, with everyone I know often getting themselves into trouble for being blunt and unfiltered, myself included. I try to be mindful, but lying makes no sense to me and serves no purpose. And gaslighting is a form of lying that is very dark, very harmful, and it requires a lot of work on the gaslighter to keep the lie going. I was gaslit so bad by a completely neurotypical guy that I actually questioned everything about me, about my life, about my experiences, and I was so confused after 3 years of being with him that I sought help because I was falling apart, afraid of my own shadow, and I was having periods of shut down that were getting harder and harder to recover from.
Autistic people, btw, don't lack empathy and usually have more than the average person. The double-empathy problem brings yet another issue into this whole thing.
The term "Narcissist" has gotten so overused that most people don't even know the difference between a narcissist and person who is just plain mean. But what I see in comments on your videos are a lot of people simply looking for something or someone to blame their experiences on. If someone feels like they're being abused, then leave. There shouldn't be a question about if you should or not. That's what I had to learn through a therapist. If it turns out the autistic person in your life is abusive, then you've done the right thing by leaving, and if the autistic person in your life actually isn't being abusive.. then it's best that they not be with you. One thing i learned in therapy after being with a malignant narcissist will project their worst traits onto you, and to me that is one of the most dangerous traits narcissists have. They are completely aware of what they're doing and how it will affect you, and every move they make is thought out, calculated, has a goal and desired result. This I learned about while in therapy.
If you've been with an actual narcissist, once someone points out to you what they are and what they're doing... you won't ever forget it. After going through what I went through at the hands of a dangerous narcissist it makes me sad to see autism being compared to narcissistic traits, and there's already so much hate and bullying out there towards autistic people, and it's actually scary seeing people flock here looking for something or someone to blame and landing on 'autism' to lay that blame upon. As an autistic person I have been victim to sexual assault, serious physical abuse, emotional and mental abuse from very early childhood into adulthood, all by neurotypical people.
Don't demonize autistic people or encourage others to do the same. Maybe you don;'t mean to do that, but just reading the comments on some of your videos (I've only watched a few) people are taking information and attitudes and opinions and running with it, putting many autistic adults at risk.
Please consider that many autistic adults may be viewing your videos thinking maybe they can learn something about having a better relationship with their neurotypical partners. That's how I began watching your videos. But as I looked through the list of videos and titles it became sad and frightening to see so much negativity, and the feel of the videos and comments are so dark and depressing, and very scary.
Unfortunately there are a lot of toxic divergent people just like the typical.
I don’t agree that autistic people have the same level of empathy. They lack cognitive empathy and that’s okay they have limitations