The first time my kids saw the Mouth of Sauron they asked if that was Sauron. I said no, it was his lawyer. To this day that's what they call him. "Hey, here comes Sauron's lawyer!"
Now just imagine Sauron being captured and sitting in a Gondorian court of law, and this dude shows up on the defense bench with his little files ready to go HAHAAHAH
It wasn't just that his name was forgotten in general, but that even he did not remember his name. That would suggest to thousands of years instead of hundreds to me personally
He’s an accountant doing small business tax returns, predominantly for lumber merchants in Umbar and sulphur mining operations in the east. When he’s not working or being the mouth of sauron he also quite enjoys flying kites and making papier-mâché piñatas for his grandchildren.
I suspect that the Mouth was kept pretty busy as an ambassador. Sauron could not go personally as a physical entity to all the eastern nations that he made alliances with, nor the southern ones such as the Corsairs. The Nazgul obviously didn't have the social skills to do that and the orcs were too loathsome to humans as well, plus they were sunlight challenged. The Mouth would have been up and down Middle Earth non-stop and probably directing other human ambassadors from the Tower who were in constant negotiation with those loyal to Sauron. Busy job, lots of responsibilities!
It’s actually probable that sauron did have a physical form at the time of LOTR, but that doesn’t mean he would have wanted to do a lot of showing himself, for obvious reasons
Are you suggesting that the Mouth of Sauron should have unionized to ensure good working conditions and pay? Can you unionize if you're a workforce of 1?
@@matttthewcheng I believe that in the case of the Mouth evil was it's own reward! The cool black clothes, people (and orcs) ready to do your bidding, travel, fell meats on the BBQ, and an extended lifespan. No union could guarantee that.
Sauron made himself more pleasant to the eyes when he served that role. Why wouldn't he use that tactic on his new ambassador. Was he using fear instead of coercion?
@@radagast7200 Was Sauron still able to use deception/charisma to coerce loyalty after the fall of Numenor? I might misunderstand, but I thought this power was lost to Sauron either after Numenor or after he lost his Ring the first time?
@@CorrectionUnknown I believe Sauron is giving the Lieutenant instructions about what to say to Gandalf and the others. Like an evil voice inside his head. That is why he is called the mouth of Sauron, just passing the message.
Are you thinking of on top of Amon Hen, just before the Uruk Hai attack, when Frodo is offering the ring to Aragorn and you can hear Sauron whispering to Aragorn as he considers taking the ring and you hear "Eh-leh-ssahr" like the ring acknowledging him as the mighty king.
The lore says the Mouth came into the service of the Dark Tower when it rose again, but that's not necessarily when he came into the service of Sauron himself. The lore indicates he rose through the ranks and became a powerful sorcerer. He didn't start off as Sauron's lieutenant, he became one. Could his sorcery prolong his life? He was obviously unique among Sauron's minions, so much so that he was given the "honor" and trust of being able to speak for Sauron, directly! That is an astounding degree of trust and power given to this mortal man, not even bound by a ring, a man who learned his arts at the feet of the dark lord. And those arts could have easily included the one thing men wanted most, more life, though only extended, not made immortal. Thus, the reference of coming into the service of the Dark Tower could simply refer to when he became its lieutenant, but he could have lived for hundreds or even thousands of years before that. To me, that's reinforced by the fact that he's surely a Black Numenorean, and not referred to as the descendant of one. The Age and talk in the writings of Black Numenoreans are directly associated with the Second Age. In conclusion, there is ample evidence for varying interpretations.
@Juggled Lotus in lotr sorcerers and wizards are not the same. The wizards(Gandalf,Saruman,Radaghast and the two lost blue wizards) are maiar and sorcerers aren't
Would you consider The Mouth of Sauron more terrifying than the King of the Wraiths, the Witch-Kung of Angmar. The Hobbit was the easiest to read in my opinion. Then when I went in the LOTR series right after, it became more difficult. Then let’s forget about The Silmarillion because that’s on another level! I read all the books when I was 11....that was 21 years ago. It indeed is challenging for a child to read & km actually motivated to re read them now as a young man whom can understand a lot more than when I was just a boy. I, unfortunately, can’t remember much of the LOTR novels. The Discussion between Gandalf The White & The Mouth of Sauron was beautifully executed! The higher level of advancement in language is what makes this such a stupendous endless story. Even if one doesn’t speak in this manner, one can infer just how complex language truly is.
@@lahoku Very much so, as I first the books 45 years ago, I didnot know the ending. So encountering the Mouth of Sauron out the black gates where they expected to be overwhelmed by the armies of Sauron was a very tense time. From memory, the witch king didnot have many speaking parts, could not Kill Frodo on Weather top, got washed away by a river, flew away when Gandalf confronted him on the fields of Pelennor & again at the gates of Minas Tirith, and was easily killed by a woman and a frightened hobbit. The fearsomeness of the witch killed has been built up by the community, youtube channels like this one (of which I am subscribed and I wish well), and of cause the movies. All of which occurred post the writing of the books. I am not a lotr/Tolkien scholar but I reckon Tolkien wrote the Hobbit with no thought of writing LotR, wrote LotR with no thought of writing any other books on middle earth. The other point worth noting is the other 8 ring wraths did not even have names or titles, whereas probably a dozen or more orcs are named and described. Maybe if Tolkien had planned it all from the beginning, the witch king may had had a bigger roll in the books. I'm not surprised Peter Jackson filmed the Mouth of Sauron scene but in my view didnot do him justice, and I think that scene only made the extended version cut.
Nah it felt like he was being tortured by fire in his eyes and unending corruption. The pictures of him don’t help either. He looks like he is trapped blind in that uncomfortable helmet. So he couldn’t brush his teeth so he is suffering from the intense pain of teeth decay.
And he also probably met his anti climactic death when some elf fired an arrow and hit mouth of sauron. Being blind and in his very uncomfortable helmet, he couldn’t move around to dodge the arrow.
After the fall of Sauron, the Mouth went south. Disguised and with a lot of coin, he found a good dentist in Belfalas, got fit and stopped eating fell meats and the like and lived out his years quite happily. Like those Nazi's who made it to Paraguay or Argentina.
I'm the Ass of Sauron. The Master sends me whenever he needs to be a total douche to someone. I'm sort of like the Mouth but with a lot more "I know you are but what am I?".
@@stevepalpatine2828 One ring to rule them all, one ring to bind them, one ring to cradle the balls and in the tightness… bind them. ~ Butrug captain of the black fence.
10:12 I'd point out that it's unlikely that the coat of mail was shown to make Gandalf and company think the One ring had been recovered. That the company would seek to destroy the ring was still furthest from Sauron'smind, and it's far more likely that Sauron thought Aragorn had the ring (which was what Gandalf was counting on). Instead, based on dialog heard from various orcs, it's more likely that they thought Frodo was a spy. If Sauron thought the Hobbits truly had the ring, there'd likely be a much greater effort in finding them than just a single tracker/fighter pair or orcs.
@@jeremiahwarden5959 Gandalfs' and Aragorns actions are what made Sauron think that they had the ring. Knowing how treacherous the ring was. Since, Sauron made it. That it would slip into many hands.
@@TheMuzz743 That’s a good point. A being like Sauron wood find it difficult to believe that great warrior kings or sorcerers like Aragorn and Gandalf would allow the ring to be held by a halfling
@@jeremiahwarden5959 It was ultimately Sauron's downfall was his inability to fathom a possibility where someone would ever want to destroy the ring. He obviously knew of its corrupting power and that it's will was that of Sauron's itself, so he knew no one could willingly destroy the ring. Gandolf and Aragorn counted on this when Aragorn revealed himself and the reforged sword to Sauron using the Palantir. Sauron surely believed that Aragorn had taken the ring himself (same as his ancestor Isildur thousands of years earlier) and was attempting to use it against Sauron to defeat him in battle (which is exactly was Boromir wanted to do). That is why Sauron emptied his entire force of Mordor towards the black gate to take down Aragorn and retrieve the ring.
If you look back at the conversation with the Mouth of Sauron, he implies the coat is proof that Sauron had captured a “spy”. I think Gandalf and Aragorn would have been smart enough to realize that meant Sauron didn’t have the Ring because the Mouth of Sauron wouldn’t have just called the Ringbearer a mere spy. If Sauron had recovered the Ring, he would have wanted to sow despair and helplessness in the ranks of the forces of the King before crushing them.
Great video, guys! The Mouth is so grotesque and strange that he is one of my favorite villains to show up in the movie and books. I really appreciate the effort you put into these videos!
I really want to know what Mordorians do all day, I mean they all must have day jobs administring the dark lands, treating with Corsairs, Southlanders and Easterlings, rebuilding roads, mustering orc armies, repairing fortresses, commissioning engines of war, stockpiling supplies and arranging logistics. Does Sauron have an accountant, ist there a quarter master general of Mordor?
Not sure what they do in Mordor but I've heard in the south of Mordor is basically the breadbasket for saurons lands to help sustain his armies. I'm sure quite a few were working there
play the games shadow of mordor its pretty good but the second game did a good jop showing how the orc ranks works and what they do along with different creations inside mordor
They mentioned that Sauron did enslave men to work in agriculture and construction so yes further south and East of Mt. Doom there would be something resembling a civilization with towns and mines and farms.
I don’t know that there’s a good reason to doubt that the dark tower first rising again refers to Sauron initial rise (after Morgoth’s dark tower(s)). Old enough to have forgotten his own name certainly indicates something longer than 60-70 years.
I'm sure he was a powerful sorcerer, but his true power came from his cunning, and his council to Sauron. If it came down to winning a one on one, head to head fight with Aragorn, he'd lose quickly. But he would never actually be alone, or have to do his own fighting.
@@longdongsilver6298 Well, to be fair, it's terrible form to behead someone while parlaying with them. Aragorn is an incredible fighter, but beheading him in that moment was a cheap shot.
@@vansteel393 I would agree, but I think it's fair that at this point the Mouth was there to taunt them, not really to parlay with them. Any promises he might have made about the safety of the Host of the West if they surrendered would not be worth anything. He also appeared to show that Frodo had been killed. Aragorn therefore had nothing left to lose at that point, and it was going to be a fight to the death - ultimately resulting in their defeat of course.
Are you sure? The Mouth of Sauron could have lived an extended life far longer than Aragorn's, Aragorn is in very good shape for 87 because he is a Dunedain a descendant of the Numenorean's, but the Mouth is an actual Numenorean meaning he could've been hundreds or thousands of years old due to Sauron's magic with the fighting experience to match that age.
His head probably figuratively exploded after the demise of sauron. He would have been so mentally intertwined that his physiology and soul were immensely changed.
What makes you think that? The 'Mouth of Sauron' isn't really all that different from Sauron. They are the lesser toad to a greater evil. Sauron's head didn't explode. He crept off and continued as a potent, albeit lesser evil.
Anyone who sought out Sauron to serve him would be an abitious and powerful person. Rising high in Sauron's service would also require growing in personal power and dark knowledge as well. So it is certain the Mouth of Sauron would be a powerful being.
There’s a theory that the mouth of Sauron was given a dead end ring of power and was slowly transforming into a Nazgul, which is why he forgot his name.
That's interesting. Considering that all the Nazgul possibly still have their rings, I wonder which one it could be. Possibly a spare Dwarven Ring Of Power? Thror's maybe?
@@Phoebe5448 The Nazgul don't have their rings at this point: Sauron had long since retrieved all nine rings after the Nazgul became totally enslaved to the One via them, and those nine were in his keeping as well as three or maybe four of the Dwarves' rings. So yes, it would have been possible for Sauron to give one of these ex-Nazgul rings to another man. The ultimate in recycling :)
@@gillianlovell9578 Ah, good point! So it's still possible those Rings Of Power are still kicking around? Wasn't at least one of the Dwarven rings destroyed? Maybe I'm thinking of Shadow Of Mordor, which is non canon. I would imagined they would lose their powers once The One Ring was destroyed and Barad-ur fell.
@@Phoebe5448 All the rings lost their power after the one ring was destroyed (see LOTR ROTK). So if the Mouth of Sauron was given long life through one of the rings, then he would have likely just faded away like the rest of the Nazgul.
I ended up here in the wake of the Rings of Power disaster. This video shows just how deeply the producers of that show were out of their element. You are citing theories from ‘71 lol. Black Gate Opens is one of my most read chapters and I was always fascinated with the mouth character. I was let down when he was not in the movie but when I saw him in the extended it was worth the wait. I think they nailed it for not having as vivid a description as most other areas of the text. Good channel. This one’s for the true headz.
"And he entered the service of the dark tower when it first rose again". There's a few ways that can be interpreted. My question would be - what if "again" is referring to his service, and not to the tower's rising? As in, "he entered again the service of the black tower when it first rose." That meaning is not grammatically impossible by any stretch. That puts pretty different slant on it, and it certainly explains his fall and corruption over a great period of time, rather than a more recent joining, as is an initial conclusion. It begs some other questions though - if he entered "again", that means it wasn't the first time, so how many other times were there? And how long ago? And what was he doing in between? Perhaps the Mouth of Sauron is far older than we first imagine. Perhaps his service goes back as far as Morgoth. That would explain a lot. I'm not saying the meaning is any which way or the other, but it's certainly something to think about.
That is way I always took that sentence to mean. He entered service AGAIN, not when the tower rose again. If the second meaning was intended, why did Tolkien say "when it first rose...". Why include first? I always believed that The Mouth of Sauron had served him before the Tower was ever built. Perhaps serving him when the rings were first created? His servitude spanned AGES and not centuries or millennia. His service to Sauron had so long and complete that all he knew was servitude to Sauron and his ambitions, so long that his own ambitions and desires had been supplanted. Hence, no one knew his name, who the individual was, only knew of his service as the Mouth of Sauron. That included his own memory. He had been the Mouth so long, acting as an extension of Sauron's will, that he literally became that extension at the cost of his own individuality and thought process.
@@singledad1313 it actually would depend upon if there is a comma and where in the sentence it is located. "When the tower rose again" would indicate that the tower was the subject, and "when the tower arose, again." Would indicate that he returned to Saurons service for a second time. Damn English language.
When you said day job my brain was like montage time with the following jobs. Auctioneer of weapons and armor, Daily News and Weather announcer, Preacher of word of Sauron, Chief Architect of Mordor (at Saurons behest) and, Scary horses Rancher.
Mouth Of Sauron feels like a silver tongued character Sauron found extremely useful, making any non Orc clan or tribe instantly bow to Sauron with words and charms. Not sure if he had actual sorcery powers, I don't see why not considering his boss is The Dark Lord, and basically the Devil in Middle Earth lol.
Excellent video! I've been thinking lately about the end of Númenor and how that is not only a parallel with Plato's Atlantis downfall, but also how that is an allegory for our modern age and what may become of this current civilization. I'd really like to see a video focusing on the corruption of the Númenórean kingdom, perhaps commencing with the reign of Tar-Atanamir who was against the Ban of the Valar. Also focusing on Tar-Palantir's failed attempt at repentance and his daughter's forced marriage to the last king, Ar-Pharazôn, culminating with the latter's utter betrayal of his race by succumbing to the greatest evil of his time. There is a great lessen to be learned in the fall of Númenor, which is probably why Plato's account of Atlantis still lives on as a popular myth even to this day. This would probably end up being a long video to treat the subject matter with justice, but would like to see it one day.
In the 1970s there was a comic version made of the Return and it , the mouth, appeared in that version. Being a huge fan of all things Middle Earth, I watched this version. To this day I remember this version, but have never since then, seen it again. One of the cool things I had was a large map of Middle Earth. I remember writing out the check and sending it in. Also, I remember the day I got the map; one of the coolest days ever.
It would be neat if in any sequel to TLOTR (such as the one that Tolkien starting writing) the Mouth was the primary antagonist. He is the lieutenant of Barad Dur, just as Sauron was the lieutenant of Morgoth before him, and there is enough basis here to give him that extended life and power - as well represent the transfer the evil of Morgoth fully into the hands of men, where it surely remains.
For him to forget his own name, he'd have to be VERY old imo. I'd assume he learned sorcery separate from Sauron and already had powers when he allied himself.
I won't lie, I've only see the movies but love the lore. Your videos are off the chain for someone like me looking to quickly dive into different characters
Much as I adore the books, it took me forever to read them. They are rather wordy, and it might be difficult for some folks to read. That's where videos like these come in handy. They can help put characters and events into less-wordy bites so a later re-reading is easier to follow.
It would seem almost certain that he was watching the battle from one of the towers or from the battlements and would have perished when they collapsed, but if not, he was certainly smart enough to skedaddle when everything begun to crumble.
@@ClassicHarleyQuinn I would say he went to East, teamed up with some powerful warlord and started to build up anti-Gondor alliance and instigate attacks on the borderlands until Aragorn and Eomer would put an end to his efforts.
@@meduseldtales3383 I can see that happening. Morgoth is also technically still alive but locked away. Kinda surprised Tolkien kept him locked away for that long considering how long Sauron was about. It would be cool to get some sort if live action adaptation of Tolkien's work from begging to end.
I think he was very powerful and skilled in magic. Saying he was just a servant to Sauron is like saying Sauron is just a servant to Morgoth and therefore not powerful. He is a Numenorean and knows great sorcery. I would put him near the same power as Aragorn, just not as brave.
I always was under the impression that the Mouth of Sauron was a being that was captured and enslaved by Sauron. You can see the ancient language of Mordor written on the helmet he wears and I thought it was a spell that allowed Sauron to speak through him and encourages complete devotion to Mordor.
When you ask how powerful the Mouth is compared to Aragorn, do you mean physically/magically or politically? Because it seems to me that the Mouth's greatest power is in its longevity. Politically, Aragorn became far stronger after the destruction of the one ring. Magically, there's no real way to tell without knowing which of the two reasons you offered for the Mouth's longevity is accurate.
I wonder if the Mouth of Sauron is also the messenger from Mordor that Gloin mentions in The Council of Elrond. "..a horseman in the night, who called Dain to his gate. The Lord Sauron the Great, so he said, wished for our friendship. Rings he would give for it, such as he gave of old. And he asked urgently concerning hobbits, of what kind they were, and where they dwelt "For Sauron knows," said he, "that one of these was known to you on a time" The messenger could be one of the Ringwraiths searching for information about the Shire, but he sounds more like the Mouth because they both call Sauron "the Great", and he's a bit more chatty and eager to dole out terms and treaties than the Ringwraiths tend to be (lol). He's described more like a normal person than some eerie cloaked shadow, and he doesn't speak in thees and thous like the Witch-King.
I wonder how much the life of the Mouth of Sauron might have been a dark reflection of the life of Aragorn II. They might have even been the same age if the Mouth of Sauron entered into the service of the Dark Tower as a young man. Aragorn was learned it the lore of the Elves whereas the Mouth was a Black Numenorean sorcerer. Aragorn performed errantries under King Thengel of Rohan and Ecthelion II of Gondor and commanded an attack upon the Corsairs of Umbar, while the Mouth became one of Sauron's commanders.
My only gripe with the Mouth of Sauron only being in his service for 68 years is that time moves differently for Sauron, 68 years is a few seconds in his perspective. I highly doubt that anyone would rise so high in the ranks that quickly, but if the MoS was around much much longer? It makes sense. Also knowing how powerful he was it really was dumb for him to be so easily killed in the movies. Oh well.
I bet he won the company picnic's cake eating contest, with a mouth like that he'd be able to put a quarter of a cake in his mouth at a time at least if not half
Today on Mordor News: White official of the Gondorian government hits Black Numenorean ambassador with a sharp piece of metal in front of hundreds of eye-witnesses.
Such a creature was very interesting. While terrifying, he did not display much bravery in facing Aragorn and the other emissaries, reminding the he wasn't to be assailed, when emotions ran high. I do think he came to Mordor when Sauron reoccupied it again and not before.
"He did not display much bravery in facing Aragorn and the other emissaries" He was just a messenger, his task was not 'showing some bravery" against them. Also if he really had black sorcery of Sauron as it said, Aragorn couldnt kill him. Remember what was happened when Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli tried to attack Gandalf in Fangorn. All of them dropped their weapons suddenly.. In Tolkien's world you cannot just attack a sorcerer/wizard. It's not D&D or RPG lol
@@_semih_ Oh dear, I afford you the protection of a messenger.....That said, seeing as Tolkien is based on Northern European medieval and pre-medieval myth, legend, traditions and practice, messengers are afforded protection from retaliation due to the nature of their message, it's pretty easy to be brave in those circumstances. The heir of Elendil and Numenor should not need to be reminded of chivalrous and honourable actions and that shows the cowardice of the MOS. I think that is partly why Jackson took out the scene where Aragorn beheads the MOS in the theatrical release. It wasn't in keeping with his character arc but, also contradicts the honourable expectations for parley embedded in Northern European belief the story is based on.
from how i interpet the quote "first rose again" is that he joint sauron when he started to rebuild the tower, not at it's completion, don't know if it is known how long it took to be build. so at the begining of sauron's rebuilding of morder in the 3th age. and lieutenant of the tower would sugest from medival origins he is the permanent boss of the castle, and everything that goes with it, logisticly. like food weapons, construction/repaires. making him like a department head in the organisation.....
He would not debate a master like Sauron, just serve. And he probably had not spoken with Saruman seeing the location differences and Saurons seeing eye acting as the middle man/communication. If they did have a interaction I imagine not much would be said as they are both servants of Sauron and debating amongst themselves would be pointless.
@@sauceyreef5166 i think you miss my point, I just think it'd be funny to see the 2 bickering over petty issues whilst sauron is off actually doing things.
@@Roadrun98 sorry I am just a nerdy realist with LOTR. Any situation with them arguing could be quite funny if this situation ever played out! Big mouth vs know it all haha.
Interesting point because Saruman seems like he would be light years ahead. The comparison kind of makes Mr Mouth look bad and by extension makes Sauron look bad.
@@quitwastinmytime it would actually be a pretty interesting confrontation I think. But yes seeing Saruman is a Maia and possibly thousands of years I think the mouth would be the bitch to both of them.
I would appreciate if you could take a stab at this question... How did Sauron manage to keep his ruling ring after the sinking of numenor? Tolkien made it clear that Sauron perished during the sinking of Numenor, and only his spirit endured. Spirits cannot carry rings or any other object, so it would make sense that the ring also would be at the bottom of the sea. How did he transport it back with him to Mordor as a simple spirit? Was this even possible and couldn't he have also done the same once Isildur cut it from his finger?
If you judge by the power or strength of the WitchKing, who was probably a Numenorean, in sorcery. I would guess the Mouth of Sauron would be a Ragagast level or Nazgul.
Radagast was a Maia on equal level as Sauron, Sarumon and Gandalf. While there were certainly different power levels among the Maia (Sarumon is specifically stated as the strongest of the 5 wizards send to Middle Earth) and Radagast was not nearly as strong as any listed above, he would still be far stronger than any mortal man.
I'd really love a prequel about The Mouth Of Sauron! How he became seduced by the Dark Lords power in Numenor and came with him to Middle Earth, becoming so twisted and inflicting horrible torture on his victims.
I figure the Mouth of Sauron could probably have taken Aragorn, as unpopular an opinion as it may be, or at the very least thought he could have. It may be a servant against a king, but he's described as a powerful and cunning sorcerer beyond any benefits he may share with Aragorn from his Númenórean blood; he was undoubtedly afraid at the meeting, but I chalk that more up to Gandalf than Aragorn. Even as twisted and vile as he is, any mortal has to be unnerved sitting there taunting a being of the same order as his god.
Agreed. Many say he fled. I wish i could read specifically what he did because he could have simply thought they were a waste of time and let the armies attack moving on to other business.
I'd agree that he would have served Sauron for maybe a longer period then a normal human would live. But i'd pose that as he is a black numenorean i would say his life span might be slightly enchanced by magic, but he definetly didnt live thousands of years. A simple mouthpiece wouldnt be so important to Sauron that he'd give him longer lifespan then ring wraiths who are undead.
This is amazing. I always thought the witch king was his mouth. I must've been sleeping all this time. Now I'ma go watch all the movies over again. Thanks for the knowledge 😊
Aragorn and the men of the West show up at the gate: Mouth of Sauron: "What the hell you waiting for! Get my horse ready, I finally have a job to do after several fucking thousand years of waiting!" lmao
I had always assumed that the Mouth, like his master, fled the destruction of his master's realm and ventured somewhere distant to establish a smaller, evil realm out of the reach of the men of the west. Possibly, he fled to far Harad, or to Ruhn, or somewhere further east and build his own tower, using his power and stature to set himself over some group. Maybe the heirs of the Lords of the West came into conflict with him at some point in the future
In the theatrical version, you can see right before Aragorn charges, he has blood on his sword which makes no sense without having decapitated mr Mouth. So all the more reason they shouldn't have cut the scene.
I imagine the Witchking was Sauron's right hand man for war, whilst the mouth of sauron was his right hand man for politics / negotiations with allies. Sauron could hardly visit every allied village, town or settlement so would need to send an ambassador to speak on his behalf. The ring wraiths were undead and created a sense of fear and dread wherever they go. Sauron wanted to ensure his allies followed him and treated the humans far better than his orcs, trolls, etc. He would require a living man to communicate with his allies. Sauron completely surrounded himself in unsettling monsters so it makes sense for him to use a living man to communicate with his living human allies. The fact the Mouth of Sauron was sent to talk with the enemy army at the black gate also suggests his job involved politics and negotiation with others.
I believe Mouth of Sauron was roughly at the same level as *Imrahil*. Yes, he was a coward, but he have learned some witchcraft and was after all the lieutenant of Barad-dûr itself! But no, he is not at the same level as Witch-king for example. *First in my mind became Salgant, cause he was a coward too, and he has propably seen the light of the Two Trees. So he might be quite close to the Mouth, but...🤷♂️
Another, albeit extremely minor point of contention rests with the 1980 animated Mouth - or Voice Of Sauron. Different sources at different times have said it was either Rankin-Bass deep Vet Paul Frees or John "Mr. Slate" Stephenson. I've even heard Don "Scooby Doo" Messick. The explanation I have heard is that these productions often rushed to get the job done, and for minor characters did not keep track of who voiced whom. I will offer a defense to the RoTK film. Yes, killing a messenger or emissary is barbaric and against custom, but it could have given false hope to Sauron that his enemies' position and standing was more desperate and dire than it seemed, for Aragorn to do such a thing.
Right. They called Sauron and his forces out in an effort to provide a distraction, empty Mordor and give Sam and Frodo easier passage to Mount Doom. Sauron probably thought they were all just idiots, but Aragorn slaying the Mouth would have given Sauron the impression they were desperate and didn't have much of an ulterior motive. The Mouth's slaying isn't book-canon, but it's not too out-of-character for Aragorn either, even if it's distasteful.
The Mouth of Sauron's dayjob mighta just been more of what he did as Sauron's main messenger: Running orders back and forth between Sauron and lesser beings under his sway, as well as perhaps dealing with day to day matters too small to bother Sauron himself over/delivering important information, reports, and news heard from lessers such as spies to him - Though I expect Sauron would have gotten a report from the Mouth whenever he dealt with minor matters on his behalf, so he stays in the loop and yet could keep his main focus on larger more important matters. So basically middle-management stuff and the likes, which probably came in handy as Sauron did have a rather large orc force to keep in line.
After learning of the literary corruption of Amazon's *dUh TuRd Uv DeR rAnGs,* I began to seek out the original film trilogy clips. Somehow I stumbled here but I'm grateful I found the channel. I've procrastinated for too long to learn more of Middle-Earth's lore & now it is the time for this more than ever before. Thank you! 🙏
I would say when comparing whether the Mouth or Aragorn is more powerful, you would need to take into consideration that he is indeed a formidable sorcerer. And being a king doesn't necessarily make Aragorn stronger. It's a title, that certainly comes with influential power. We also have seen his fears as a warrior so it's questionable whether the Mouth could even parry his attacks, but then again, there is not enough information on this character to really gauge this. Of course in a fight within the context of the story arc, Aragorn would have to win, bc plot armor, but in the matter of personal power, we truly don't know what a sorcerer like The Mouth of Sauron is truly capable of.
This was a great scene in the book where Aragorn demonstrates his power over other men. Even the powerful Black Numenorean is defeated in a battle of wills with the heir of Elendil. He rakes a step back as if physically assaulted by Aragorn.
Who is more "powerful"? If the mouth had prolonged his life for thousands of years, then the answer is clear. But that is only one expression of power and mastery. What is more powerful the pen or the sword? If the ability to sway others around your cause is considered an expression of power which it undoubtedly is, Aragorn is by far the clear winner. Being a top lieutenant irregardless of to whom, is still not as powerful as a King commanding thousands loyal to him willing to die for a purpose they believe in, rather an are compelled to follow through fear of retribution.
if the mouth of sauron was in deed as close to sauron as depicted, then i would like to assume that he must be in the thousands of years old. also, with long age, it would make sense that his "old name" would be forgotten. I also like believe that he is quite powerful. Otherwise he would not be sitting at the head table. He was probably, IMO, an advisor to sauron.
Before you mentioned that there is a theory that The Mouth lived through the Second Age i would never have thought about the possibility. First, as you rightfully said, the quote is very unambiguous: "When it first rose again." The stress here is clearly on again, *not* on first. According to the books, Barad Dûr was rebuilt when Sauron returned to Mordor, which was only after the White Council attacked Dol Guldur during the events of The Hobbit. Yet, that does not need to be the exact time when he entered the service of Sauron. "The service of the Black Tower" and the "first rise" could very well refer to the regaining of power of the realm for which the tower was a symbol, not the thing itself. Which would put the begin of his service somewhere between 2002 and 2941 TA. The other viewpoint would mean that he was already a powerful sorcerer about 1000 SA (which is when the building started), making him more than 5000 years old. If sorcery of any kind could achieve that, the black Numenorians would have lived *longer* than their faithful brethren, but infact they lived shorter. The one and only possibility for him to live that long would have been with a ring of power - which he did not possess, otherwise he would have become a wraith. He is human after all. As for his power - how do you mean that question? There are many forms of power. Could he have beaten Aragorn in a 1:1? Well, given that Eowyn could beat the Witchking, sure, why not. Could he beat someone like Gandalf or maybe Glorfindel? Not a chance in hell. As a sorcerer he might be as powerful as the Witchking before he became a wraith.
I wonder if had the Witch King not been defeated prior to this encounter, he’d have been sent to treat with Aragorn and Gandalf. Sending another Nazgul in his place would have been a a reminder of Sauron’s defeat at Minas Tirith, and sending the Mouth avoided such humiliation. As for the Mouth of Sauron, I think he was more of an administrator for Barad-dûr, maintaining the keep, garrison, and prisoners. At the same time, I don’t believe “Mouth of Sauron” is really his name, more of a title or designation of role. He speaks as Sauron’s Mouth, nothing more. In fact, it’s more than likely there were Mouths before the one we met in the book.
Tolkien often strayed from accurate punctuation. To me, the mouth of Sauron served a second time. The “again” was stating that he was still loyal. Sauron wouldn’t trust a 100 year old being with tasks so large.
"first rose again" does seem to imply after the rebuilding in the 3rd age, if referring to Barad-dûr. However, it also implies that it wasn't the last time it rose again, which doesn't fit if referring to Barad-dûr, with the information we know. So there is either a lost history of Barad-dûr being rebuilt before the time in the 3rd age, or after the events of "Return of the King" Barad-dûr was meant to rise again. Just my take on it. On an almost entirely unrelated note, why are overlords considered bad? A fiend is often an evil being of some sort, an overfiend is a much more powerful evil being. A lord is a ruler who commands respect, or a god, but an overlord is viewed as a dictator or great evil. Just food for thought.
The "right name" of Sauron was Mairon. "Sauron" was a name given to him by the elves. "Mairon" is probably the name that Aragorn was saying that no one had permission to use, so the Mouth wouldn't have been violating this edict.
First, amazing video as always, I dont think that he was powerfull at all he was just in the service of Sauron and Saurons powers powered him, when Sauron would want to.
It’s interesting to think that as a black numenorean and as a defendant of Numenor the Mouth of Sauron and Aragorn come from very similar if not the same bloodlines and went down very different paths. Perhaps the Mouth of Sauron was a parallel to Aragorn being a man of similar blood and longevity and they went down very different roads one leading to service from a desire for power and one leading to ruling and leadership from a desire to do good and not wanting power at first but accepting his responsibility as heir to Gondor’s Throne. I always loved the characters design and own a lot of merchandise based off of the Mouth of Sauron and he’s that much more poignant being a man not an orc or ringwraith.
I believe Mouth of sauron is more powerful than we think. Yeah he didn’t fight but no one has seen anything similar or exactly like the thing he’s riding on until they see him face to face. Not to mention every creature they bump into had some sort of history or explanation as to what it was or what it could do. However, not a single explanation as to what he was riding on other than it looked like a black horse. As a sorcerer he could have created that thing.
I would think that he may have been a sorcerer of enough skill to escape the final battle and collapse of the tower. It would be interesting to consider what he became in later years. Skillfully hidden using guile and sorcery, I would t be surprised to find him a trusted councilor to someone very prominent. ;)
I thought I saw him get his head cut off by Aragorn in the extended edition, you said you weren't sure if he died , I remember seeing his head get cut off
I seem to remember that there is a possibility that the Mouth of Sauron was the Messenger who came to Dain in Erebor and offered him rings of power for the dwarves' friendship.
It wasn't friendship but confirmation of or information about " Baggins" and "Shire" that was plied from Gollum just prior to TLODR...I think; I'm pretty sure MenoftheWest covers this point in one of his videos. Was totally going to share this point until I came across your comment, cheers
How powerful was the Mouth of Sauron? He is a sorceror who had extended his lifespan, so quite powerful by human standards. However, I doubt that his sorcery could equal the magical powers of any of the Wizards, or even of Elrond or Galadriel. He was powerful in the way that evil is powerful, with all of the flaws that implies. Perhaps his powers were on the level of the Ringwraiths.
The first time my kids saw the Mouth of Sauron they asked if that was Sauron. I said no, it was his lawyer. To this day that's what they call him. "Hey, here comes Sauron's lawyer!"
Now just imagine Sauron being captured and sitting in a Gondorian court of law, and this dude shows up on the defense bench with his little files ready to go HAHAAHAH
As a lawyer i agree with this haha
I show this to my family and we all end up laughing. XD
It wasn't just that his name was forgotten in general, but that even he did not remember his name. That would suggest to thousands of years instead of hundreds to me personally
That is so cute. I will remember this moving forward
He’s an accountant doing small business tax returns, predominantly for lumber merchants in Umbar and sulphur mining operations in the east. When he’s not working or being the mouth of sauron he also quite enjoys flying kites and making papier-mâché piñatas for his grandchildren.
Lmao
HAHAHAHA
You forgot troll riding and also Coal surfing on Mount Doom lol
you would think he likes karaoke
The pinata was dear to thee, i see.
I suspect that the Mouth was kept pretty busy as an ambassador. Sauron could not go personally as a physical entity to all the eastern nations that he made alliances with, nor the southern ones such as the Corsairs. The Nazgul obviously didn't have the social skills to do that and the orcs were too loathsome to humans as well, plus they were sunlight challenged. The Mouth would have been up and down Middle Earth non-stop and probably directing other human ambassadors from the Tower who were in constant negotiation with those loyal to Sauron. Busy job, lots of responsibilities!
It’s actually probable that sauron did have a physical form at the time of LOTR, but that doesn’t mean he would have wanted to do a lot of showing himself, for obvious reasons
Are you suggesting that the Mouth of Sauron should have unionized to ensure good working conditions and pay? Can you unionize if you're a workforce of 1?
@@matttthewcheng I believe that in the case of the Mouth evil was it's own reward! The cool black clothes, people (and orcs) ready to do your bidding, travel, fell meats on the BBQ, and an extended lifespan. No union could guarantee that.
Sauron made himself more pleasant to the eyes when he served that role. Why wouldn't he use that tactic on his new ambassador. Was he using fear instead of coercion?
@@radagast7200 Was Sauron still able to use deception/charisma to coerce loyalty after the fall of Numenor? I might misunderstand, but I thought this power was lost to Sauron either after Numenor or after he lost his Ring the first time?
In the movie you can hear Sauron whispering words to him in the background, cool detail.
Saw that clip dozens of times and never noticed! I wonder what the whispers are saying.
@@CorrectionUnknown I believe Sauron is giving the Lieutenant instructions about what to say to Gandalf and the others. Like an evil voice inside his head. That is why he is called the mouth of Sauron, just passing the message.
Huh? Are you SURE? i dont freakin remember that at all
@@TheBooklyBreakdown Time to watch the movies again I would say
Are you thinking of on top of Amon Hen, just before the Uruk Hai attack, when Frodo is offering the ring to Aragorn and you can hear Sauron whispering to Aragorn as he considers taking the ring and you hear "Eh-leh-ssahr" like the ring acknowledging him as the mighty king.
The lore says the Mouth came into the service of the Dark Tower when it rose again, but that's not necessarily when he came into the service of Sauron himself. The lore indicates he rose through the ranks and became a powerful sorcerer. He didn't start off as Sauron's lieutenant, he became one. Could his sorcery prolong his life? He was obviously unique among Sauron's minions, so much so that he was given the "honor" and trust of being able to speak for Sauron, directly! That is an astounding degree of trust and power given to this mortal man, not even bound by a ring, a man who learned his arts at the feet of the dark lord. And those arts could have easily included the one thing men wanted most, more life, though only extended, not made immortal.
Thus, the reference of coming into the service of the Dark Tower could simply refer to when he became its lieutenant, but he could have lived for hundreds or even thousands of years before that. To me, that's reinforced by the fact that he's surely a Black Numenorean, and not referred to as the descendant of one. The Age and talk in the writings of Black Numenoreans are directly associated with the Second Age. In conclusion, there is ample evidence for varying interpretations.
Yes, my thoughts exactly
Ironically, the game “Lord of the Rings Conquest” is probably the ONLY Middle Earth game where we see the Mouth of Sauron use any kind of Magic.
@Juggled Lotus in lotr sorcerers and wizards are not the same. The wizards(Gandalf,Saruman,Radaghast and the two lost blue wizards) are maiar and sorcerers aren't
When I first read the books as a 15 year old, the mouth of sauron was very powerful and terrifying
Would you consider The Mouth of Sauron more terrifying than the King of the Wraiths, the Witch-Kung of Angmar.
The Hobbit was the easiest to read in my opinion. Then when I went in the LOTR series right after, it became more difficult. Then let’s forget about The Silmarillion because that’s on another level!
I read all the books when I was 11....that was 21 years ago. It indeed is challenging for a child to read & km actually motivated to re read them now as a young man whom can understand a lot more than when I was just a boy.
I, unfortunately, can’t remember much of the LOTR novels. The Discussion between Gandalf The White & The Mouth of Sauron was beautifully executed! The higher level of advancement in language is what makes this such a stupendous endless story. Even if one doesn’t speak in this manner, one can infer just how complex language truly is.
@@lahoku Very much so, as I first the books 45 years ago, I didnot know the ending. So encountering the Mouth of Sauron out the black gates where they expected to be overwhelmed by the armies of Sauron was a very tense time.
From memory, the witch king didnot have many speaking parts, could not Kill Frodo on Weather top, got washed away by a river, flew away when Gandalf confronted him on the fields of Pelennor & again at the gates of Minas Tirith, and was easily killed by a woman and a frightened hobbit. The fearsomeness of the witch killed has been built up by the community, youtube channels like this one (of which I am subscribed and I wish well), and of cause the movies. All of which occurred post the writing of the books.
I am not a lotr/Tolkien scholar but I reckon Tolkien wrote the Hobbit with no thought of writing LotR, wrote LotR with no thought of writing any other books on middle earth.
The other point worth noting is the other 8 ring wraths did not even have names or titles, whereas probably a dozen or more orcs are named and described. Maybe if Tolkien had planned it all from the beginning, the witch king may had had a bigger roll in the books.
I'm not surprised Peter Jackson filmed the Mouth of Sauron scene but in my view didnot do him justice, and I think that scene only made the extended version cut.
Nah it felt like he was being tortured by fire in his eyes and unending corruption.
The pictures of him don’t help either. He looks like he is trapped blind in that uncomfortable helmet. So he couldn’t brush his teeth so he is suffering from the intense pain of teeth decay.
And he also probably met his anti climactic death when some elf fired an arrow and hit mouth of sauron. Being blind and in his very uncomfortable helmet, he couldn’t move around to dodge the arrow.
Jfnu d
Everyone asks Who and What is Mouth of Sauron. But nobody asks *How* is the Mouth of Sauron!
A little compassion goes a long way guys...
Nobody doesn't ask "Why is the Mouth of Sauron?" either.
I’ll do you one better, Why is The Mouth of Sauron?
You guys have been watching too much 'Endgame' LOL..
After the fall of Sauron, the Mouth went south. Disguised and with a lot of coin, he found a good dentist in Belfalas, got fit and stopped eating fell meats and the like and lived out his years quite happily. Like those Nazi's who made it to Paraguay or Argentina.
@@jamesaron1967 It's Infinnyti war
I really like The Mouth. Loved his design and mannerisms in the film
I'm the Ass of Sauron. The Master sends me whenever he needs to be a total douche to someone. I'm sort of like the Mouth but with a lot more "I know you are but what am I?".
Lol
my god stop speaking please
😂 I laughed a little too hard. The first sentence just killed me.
I'm the Dick of Sauron. He sends me when he wants someone fcked...
@@stevepalpatine2828 One ring to rule them all, one ring to bind them, one ring to cradle the balls and in the tightness… bind them. ~ Butrug captain of the black fence.
i know one thing. the physical appearance of the Mouth of Sauron certainly proves there is no Dentist of Sauron.
10:12
I'd point out that it's unlikely that the coat of mail was shown to make Gandalf and company think the One ring had been recovered. That the company would seek to destroy the ring was still furthest from Sauron'smind, and it's far more likely that Sauron thought Aragorn had the ring (which was what Gandalf was counting on). Instead, based on dialog heard from various orcs, it's more likely that they thought Frodo was a spy.
If Sauron thought the Hobbits truly had the ring, there'd likely be a much greater effort in finding them than just a single tracker/fighter pair or orcs.
Shouldn't he know? Frodo put the ring on multiple times. By that point, Sauron should have known.
@@jeremiahwarden5959 Gandalfs' and Aragorns actions are what made Sauron think that they had the ring. Knowing how treacherous the ring was. Since, Sauron made it. That it would slip into many hands.
@@TheMuzz743
That’s a good point. A being like Sauron wood find it difficult to believe that great warrior kings or sorcerers like Aragorn and Gandalf would allow the ring to be held by a halfling
@@jeremiahwarden5959 It was ultimately Sauron's downfall was his inability to fathom a possibility where someone would ever want to destroy the ring. He obviously knew of its corrupting power and that it's will was that of Sauron's itself, so he knew no one could willingly destroy the ring. Gandolf and Aragorn counted on this when Aragorn revealed himself and the reforged sword to Sauron using the Palantir. Sauron surely believed that Aragorn had taken the ring himself (same as his ancestor Isildur thousands of years earlier) and was attempting to use it against Sauron to defeat him in battle (which is exactly was Boromir wanted to do). That is why Sauron emptied his entire force of Mordor towards the black gate to take down Aragorn and retrieve the ring.
If you look back at the conversation with the Mouth of Sauron, he implies the coat is proof that Sauron had captured a “spy”. I think Gandalf and Aragorn would have been smart enough to realize that meant Sauron didn’t have the Ring because the Mouth of Sauron wouldn’t have just called the Ringbearer a mere spy. If Sauron had recovered the Ring, he would have wanted to sow despair and helplessness in the ranks of the forces of the King before crushing them.
I always thought of the Mouth of Sauron as an avatar through which Sauron could work. Like a priest or a seer who would speak on behalf of their god.
He is though!
Great video, guys! The Mouth is so grotesque and strange that he is one of my favorite villains to show up in the movie and books. I really appreciate the effort you put into these videos!
Glad you enjoy them! :D
Definitely my favourite scene in TROTK - think it should absolutely have been included in the main version! What a waste of incredible prosthetics 🤣
Agreed. They extended versions👌 are class
And subtle CGI to double the size of the mouth. Tough to overtly notice but does so much to make him feel extra menacing and creepy.
I always loved the line "I have a token I was bidden to show thee", there's a formal kind of malevolence behind it.
And a great actor, it was the gyro captain from the Mad Max films, his unfortunately escapes me at the moment
Some would argue that the extended versions ARE the main versions :)
I really want to know what Mordorians do all day, I mean they all must have day jobs administring the dark lands, treating with Corsairs, Southlanders and Easterlings, rebuilding roads, mustering orc armies, repairing fortresses, commissioning engines of war, stockpiling supplies and arranging logistics. Does Sauron have an accountant, ist there a quarter master general of Mordor?
It would be pretty cool if someone would write a book or made a movie from the POV of a Mordor quartermaster.
Not sure what they do in Mordor but I've heard in the south of Mordor is basically the breadbasket for saurons lands to help sustain his armies. I'm sure quite a few were working there
play the games shadow of mordor its pretty good but the second game did a good jop showing how the orc ranks works and what they do along with different creations inside mordor
@@federikstnbach9470 don't ever use that series to establish the canon lore of LOTR, Shelob is a woman mad about Sauron breaking up with her.
They mentioned that Sauron did enslave men to work in agriculture and construction so yes further south and East of Mt. Doom there would be something resembling a civilization with towns and mines and farms.
I don’t know that there’s a good reason to doubt that the dark tower first rising again refers to Sauron initial rise (after Morgoth’s dark tower(s)). Old enough to have forgotten his own name certainly indicates something longer than 60-70 years.
"First rising again" pretty much implies that there was a second rising again so this is Saurons rebuilding of Melkor"s original dark towers to me
His name was Dave.
I love how well researched and in depth these videos always are. Keep up the good work. 👍🏻
I'm sure he was a powerful sorcerer, but his true power came from his cunning, and his council to Sauron. If it came down to winning a one on one, head to head fight with Aragorn, he'd lose quickly. But he would never actually be alone, or have to do his own fighting.
lotr extended edition makes him look weak as he gets beheaded without even putting up a fight
@@longdongsilver6298 Well, to be fair, it's terrible form to behead someone while parlaying with them. Aragorn is an incredible fighter, but beheading him in that moment was a cheap shot.
@@vansteel393 I would agree, but I think it's fair that at this point the Mouth was there to taunt them, not really to parlay with them. Any promises he might have made about the safety of the Host of the West if they surrendered would not be worth anything. He also appeared to show that Frodo had been killed. Aragorn therefore had nothing left to lose at that point, and it was going to be a fight to the death - ultimately resulting in their defeat of course.
Are you sure? The Mouth of Sauron could have lived an extended life far longer than Aragorn's, Aragorn is in very good shape for 87 because he is a Dunedain a descendant of the Numenorean's, but the Mouth is an actual Numenorean meaning he could've been hundreds or thousands of years old due to Sauron's magic with the fighting experience to match that age.
His head probably figuratively exploded after the demise of sauron. He would have been so mentally intertwined that his physiology and soul were immensely changed.
That or literally just past out and died.
What makes you think that? The 'Mouth of Sauron' isn't really all that different from Sauron. They are the lesser toad to a greater evil. Sauron's head didn't explode. He crept off and continued as a potent, albeit lesser evil.
His head got cut off by Aragorn
@@ArgenYargen in the movies, this person is talking about the books.’
And he deed Gandalf, he deeeed...
Anyone who sought out Sauron to serve him would be an abitious and powerful person. Rising high in Sauron's service would also require growing in personal power and dark knowledge as well. So it is certain the Mouth of Sauron would be a powerful being.
There’s a theory that the mouth of Sauron was given a dead end ring of power and was slowly transforming into a Nazgul, which is why he forgot his name.
That's interesting. Considering that all the Nazgul possibly still have their rings, I wonder which one it could be. Possibly a spare Dwarven Ring Of Power? Thror's maybe?
@@Phoebe5448 The Nazgul don't have their rings at this point: Sauron had long since retrieved all nine rings after the Nazgul became totally enslaved to the One via them, and those nine were in his keeping as well as three or maybe four of the Dwarves' rings. So yes, it would have been possible for Sauron to give one of these ex-Nazgul rings to another man. The ultimate in recycling :)
@@gillianlovell9578 Ah, good point! So it's still possible those Rings Of Power are still kicking around? Wasn't at least one of the Dwarven rings destroyed? Maybe I'm thinking of Shadow Of Mordor, which is non canon. I would imagined they would lose their powers once The One Ring was destroyed and Barad-ur fell.
@@Phoebe5448 All the rings lost their power after the one ring was destroyed (see LOTR ROTK). So if the Mouth of Sauron was given long life through one of the rings, then he would have likely just faded away like the rest of the Nazgul.
@@chrissedrington yes, that's right! Thanks! I remember now. Yeah he wouldn't have had free will if he did. Must have been just dark magic then.
I ended up here in the wake of the Rings of Power disaster. This video shows just how deeply the producers of that show were out of their element. You are citing theories from ‘71 lol. Black Gate Opens is one of my most read chapters and I was always fascinated with the mouth character. I was let down when he was not in the movie but when I saw him in the extended it was worth the wait. I think they nailed it for not having as vivid a description as most other areas of the text. Good channel. This one’s for the true headz.
"And he entered the service of the dark tower when it first rose again". There's a few ways that can be interpreted. My question would be - what if "again" is referring to his service, and not to the tower's rising? As in, "he entered again the service of the black tower when it first rose." That meaning is not grammatically impossible by any stretch. That puts pretty different slant on it, and it certainly explains his fall and corruption over a great period of time, rather than a more recent joining, as is an initial conclusion. It begs some other questions though - if he entered "again", that means it wasn't the first time, so how many other times were there? And how long ago? And what was he doing in between? Perhaps the Mouth of Sauron is far older than we first imagine. Perhaps his service goes back as far as Morgoth. That would explain a lot. I'm not saying the meaning is any which way or the other, but it's certainly something to think about.
That is way I always took that sentence to mean. He entered service AGAIN, not when the tower rose again. If the second meaning was intended, why did Tolkien say "when it first rose...". Why include first? I always believed that The Mouth of Sauron had served him before the Tower was ever built. Perhaps serving him when the rings were first created? His servitude spanned AGES and not centuries or millennia. His service to Sauron had so long and complete that all he knew was servitude to Sauron and his ambitions, so long that his own ambitions and desires had been supplanted. Hence, no one knew his name, who the individual was, only knew of his service as the Mouth of Sauron. That included his own memory. He had been the Mouth so long, acting as an extension of Sauron's will, that he literally became that extension at the cost of his own individuality and thought process.
@@singledad1313 it actually would depend upon if there is a comma and where in the sentence it is located. "When the tower rose again" would indicate that the tower was the subject, and "when the tower arose, again." Would indicate that he returned to Saurons service for a second time. Damn English language.
When you said day job my brain was like montage time with the following jobs. Auctioneer of weapons and armor, Daily News and Weather announcer, Preacher of word of Sauron, Chief Architect of Mordor (at Saurons behest) and, Scary horses Rancher.
Mouth Of Sauron feels like a silver tongued character Sauron found extremely useful, making any non Orc clan or tribe instantly bow to Sauron with words and charms. Not sure if he had actual sorcery powers, I don't see why not considering his boss is The Dark Lord, and basically the Devil in Middle Earth lol.
Well morogoth was the devil.. saurons like his much weaker son a tad bit stronger than the wizards since they are both Maya beings ..
really cool vid James enjoyed it
Excellent video! I've been thinking lately about the end of Númenor and how that is not only a parallel with Plato's Atlantis downfall, but also how that is an allegory for our modern age and what may become of this current civilization. I'd really like to see a video focusing on the corruption of the Númenórean kingdom, perhaps commencing with the reign of Tar-Atanamir who was against the Ban of the Valar. Also focusing on Tar-Palantir's failed attempt at repentance and his daughter's forced marriage to the last king, Ar-Pharazôn, culminating with the latter's utter betrayal of his race by succumbing to the greatest evil of his time. There is a great lessen to be learned in the fall of Númenor, which is probably why Plato's account of Atlantis still lives on as a popular myth even to this day. This would probably end up being a long video to treat the subject matter with justice, but would like to see it one day.
In the 1970s there was a comic version made of the Return and it , the mouth, appeared in that version. Being a huge fan of all things Middle Earth, I watched this version. To this day I remember this version, but have never since then, seen it again.
One of the cool things I had was a large map of Middle Earth. I remember writing out the check and sending it in. Also, I remember the day I got the map; one of the coolest days ever.
It would be neat if in any sequel to TLOTR (such as the one that Tolkien starting writing) the Mouth was the primary antagonist. He is the lieutenant of Barad Dur, just as Sauron was the lieutenant of Morgoth before him, and there is enough basis here to give him that extended life and power - as well represent the transfer the evil of Morgoth fully into the hands of men, where it surely remains.
For him to forget his own name, he'd have to be VERY old imo. I'd assume he learned sorcery separate from Sauron and already had powers when he allied himself.
Also possibly as a side effect of brainwashing or torture. If he was young when he was brought into Saurons service.
His name and home address is written on his helm, so anybody finds him wandering can just deliver him home.
I won't lie, I've only see the movies but love the lore. Your videos are off the chain for someone like me looking to quickly dive into different characters
Much as I adore the books, it took me forever to read them. They are rather wordy, and it might be difficult for some folks to read. That's where videos like these come in handy. They can help put characters and events into less-wordy bites so a later re-reading is easier to follow.
So in the books there's a very small possibility that The Mouth of Sauron is still alive in the 4th age.
It would seem almost certain that he was watching the battle from one of the towers or from the battlements and would have perished when they collapsed, but if not, he was certainly smart enough to skedaddle when everything begun to crumble.
@@meduseldtales3383 Possibly. Let's say he's still alive. What do you think he was doing all that time?
@@ClassicHarleyQuinn I would say he went to East, teamed up with some powerful warlord and started to build up anti-Gondor alliance and instigate attacks on the borderlands until Aragorn and Eomer would put an end to his efforts.
@@meduseldtales3383 I can see that happening. Morgoth is also technically still alive but locked away. Kinda surprised Tolkien kept him locked away for that long considering how long Sauron was about. It would be cool to get some sort if live action adaptation of Tolkien's work from begging to end.
Yea, he's in a retirement home in Araw.
I think he was very powerful and skilled in magic. Saying he was just a servant to Sauron is like saying Sauron is just a servant to Morgoth and therefore not powerful. He is a Numenorean and knows great sorcery. I would put him near the same power as Aragorn, just not as brave.
I love the design that Weta created for The Mouth.
Who was the mouth of sauron?
Someone who needs a toothbrush.
I always was under the impression that the Mouth of Sauron was a being that was captured and enslaved by Sauron. You can see the ancient language of Mordor written on the helmet he wears and I thought it was a spell that allowed Sauron to speak through him and encourages complete devotion to Mordor.
Very cool notion
Nah. He chose his evil path
Saurons speaks just fine. Cool idea though
But that's not from the book. Just a vision of Jackson.
I just chilled with this dude! He can sling back the brews and is a master of karaoke.
I read the books when I was 12.Im 46 now. Brushing up on my middle earth lore now that the rings of power is streaming. Good video, thanks
When you ask how powerful the Mouth is compared to Aragorn, do you mean physically/magically or politically? Because it seems to me that the Mouth's greatest power is in its longevity. Politically, Aragorn became far stronger after the destruction of the one ring. Magically, there's no real way to tell without knowing which of the two reasons you offered for the Mouth's longevity is accurate.
I wonder if the Mouth of Sauron is also the messenger from Mordor that Gloin mentions in The Council of Elrond.
"..a horseman in the night, who called Dain to his gate. The Lord Sauron the Great, so he said, wished for our friendship. Rings he would give for it, such as he gave of old. And he asked urgently concerning hobbits, of what kind they were, and where they dwelt "For Sauron knows," said he, "that one of these was known to you on a time"
The messenger could be one of the Ringwraiths searching for information about the Shire, but he sounds more like the Mouth because they both call Sauron "the Great", and he's a bit more chatty and eager to dole out terms and treaties than the Ringwraiths tend to be (lol). He's described more like a normal person than some eerie cloaked shadow, and he doesn't speak in thees and thous like the Witch-King.
I wonder how much the life of the Mouth of Sauron might have been a dark reflection of the life of Aragorn II. They might have even been the same age if the Mouth of Sauron entered into the service of the Dark Tower as a young man. Aragorn was learned it the lore of the Elves whereas the Mouth was a Black Numenorean sorcerer. Aragorn performed errantries under King Thengel of Rohan and Ecthelion II of Gondor and commanded an attack upon the Corsairs of Umbar, while the Mouth became one of Sauron's commanders.
I kind of really want a prequel fic or video game about The Mouth Of Sauron!
Aragorns lost twin corrupted by the lack of future power and jealousy.
My only gripe with the Mouth of Sauron only being in his service for 68 years is that time moves differently for Sauron, 68 years is a few seconds in his perspective. I highly doubt that anyone would rise so high in the ranks that quickly, but if the MoS was around much much longer? It makes sense. Also knowing how powerful he was it really was dumb for him to be so easily killed in the movies. Oh well.
I bet he won the company picnic's cake eating contest, with a mouth like that he'd be able to put a quarter of a cake in his mouth at a time at least if not half
Not to mention the chubby bunny contest. No sweat!
Today on Mordor News:
White official of the Gondorian government hits Black Numenorean ambassador with a sharp piece of metal in front of hundreds of eye-witnesses.
Such a creature was very interesting. While terrifying, he did not display much bravery in facing Aragorn and the other emissaries, reminding the he wasn't to be assailed, when emotions ran high. I do think he came to Mordor when Sauron reoccupied it again and not before.
"He did not display much bravery in facing Aragorn and the other emissaries"
He was just a messenger, his task was not 'showing some bravery" against them. Also if he really had black sorcery of Sauron as it said, Aragorn couldnt kill him. Remember what was happened when Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli tried to attack Gandalf in Fangorn. All of them dropped their weapons suddenly.. In Tolkien's world you cannot just attack a sorcerer/wizard. It's not D&D or RPG lol
@@_semih_ Oh dear, I afford you the protection of a messenger.....That said, seeing as Tolkien is based on Northern European medieval and pre-medieval myth, legend, traditions and practice, messengers are afforded protection from retaliation due to the nature of their message, it's pretty easy to be brave in those circumstances. The heir of Elendil and Numenor should not need to be reminded of chivalrous and honourable actions and that shows the cowardice of the MOS. I think that is partly why Jackson took out the scene where Aragorn beheads the MOS in the theatrical release. It wasn't in keeping with his character arc but, also contradicts the honourable expectations for parley embedded in Northern European belief the story is based on.
from how i interpet the quote "first rose again" is that he joint sauron when he started to rebuild the tower, not at it's completion, don't know if it is known how long it took to be build. so at the begining of sauron's rebuilding of morder in the 3th age.
and lieutenant of the tower would sugest from medival origins he is the permanent boss of the castle, and everything that goes with it, logisticly. like food weapons, construction/repaires. making him like a department head in the organisation.....
Middle Earth presentation + Sapien Medicine background music. Nice!
I would've like to have seen Saruman and the Mouth of Sauron in a debate
He would not debate a master like Sauron, just serve.
And he probably had not spoken with Saruman seeing the location differences and Saurons seeing eye acting as the middle man/communication. If they did have a interaction I imagine not much would be said as they are both servants of Sauron and debating amongst themselves would be pointless.
@@sauceyreef5166 i think you miss my point, I just think it'd be funny to see the 2 bickering over petty issues whilst sauron is off actually doing things.
@@Roadrun98 sorry I am just a nerdy realist with LOTR. Any situation with them arguing could be quite funny if this situation ever played out! Big mouth vs know it all haha.
Interesting point because Saruman seems like he would be light years ahead. The comparison kind of makes Mr Mouth look bad and by extension makes Sauron look bad.
@@quitwastinmytime it would actually be a pretty interesting confrontation I think. But yes seeing Saruman is a Maia and possibly thousands of years I think the mouth would be the bitch to both of them.
I would appreciate if you could take a stab at this question...
How did Sauron manage to keep his ruling ring after the sinking of numenor? Tolkien made it clear that Sauron perished during the sinking of Numenor, and only his spirit endured. Spirits cannot carry rings or any other object, so it would make sense that the ring also would be at the bottom of the sea. How did he transport it back with him to Mordor as a simple spirit? Was this even possible and couldn't he have also done the same once Isildur cut it from his finger?
If you judge by the power or strength of the WitchKing, who was probably a Numenorean, in sorcery. I would guess the Mouth of Sauron would be a Ragagast level or Nazgul.
That's what I always thought
Radagast was a Maia on equal level as Sauron, Sarumon and Gandalf. While there were certainly different power levels among the Maia (Sarumon is specifically stated as the strongest of the 5 wizards send to Middle Earth) and Radagast was not nearly as strong as any listed above, he would still be far stronger than any mortal man.
@@aolochensky4365 Sauron was greater than any other maia you just mentioned here
I have never been so early to a video
Alas, only if the foes were as fleshed out, as the heroes. A truly great work makes even a blade of grass, interesting.
I'd really love a prequel about The Mouth Of Sauron! How he became seduced by the Dark Lords power in Numenor and came with him to Middle Earth, becoming so twisted and inflicting horrible torture on his victims.
I figure the Mouth of Sauron could probably have taken Aragorn, as unpopular an opinion as it may be, or at the very least thought he could have. It may be a servant against a king, but he's described as a powerful and cunning sorcerer beyond any benefits he may share with Aragorn from his Númenórean blood; he was undoubtedly afraid at the meeting, but I chalk that more up to Gandalf than Aragorn. Even as twisted and vile as he is, any mortal has to be unnerved sitting there taunting a being of the same order as his god.
Agreed. Many say he fled. I wish i could read specifically what he did because he could have simply thought they were a waste of time and let the armies attack moving on to other business.
I'd agree that he would have served Sauron for maybe a longer period then a normal human would live. But i'd pose that as he is a black numenorean i would say his life span might be slightly enchanced by magic, but he definetly didnt live thousands of years. A simple mouthpiece wouldnt be so important to Sauron that he'd give him longer lifespan then ring wraiths who are undead.
Please learn the difference between THEN and THAN...
@Sir André LeFae de L'inoge oh bugger off. You know what he was communicating, that’s all that matters.
I don't think the Nazguls have a lifespan. Unless someome killed them somehow that is. They would never have died of old age
Nah. He lived thousands of years by Saurons magic.
He needs Colblackgate Total to brush those things.
This is amazing. I always thought the witch king was his mouth. I must've been sleeping all this time. Now I'ma go watch all the movies over again. Thanks for the knowledge 😊
Gotta watch those extended cuts
Dear God, read the books. So much more information in it. Don't get your Middle Earth knowledge entirely from the movies.
I always assumed the Mouth of Sauron was an animated corpse. The way his head flopped to the side- it was as if he wasn't really alive.
Short answer, he’s Sauron’s gobbie giver 🤣🤣🤣
Aragorn and the men of the West show up at the gate:
Mouth of Sauron: "What the hell you waiting for! Get my horse ready, I finally have a job to do after several fucking thousand years of waiting!" lmao
Does nobody remember Aragorn decapitating him in the extended edition??
That didn’t happen in the books. In the books he demanded surrender but got intimidated by Aragorn and dipped
I remember the look Aragorn and the rest gave him like the look of 🤨 or something it was hilarious ! 😂
Yes 👍
It was a war crime for Aragorn to kill the mouth.
It was out of character for the kind and righteous Aragorn to kill an ambassador.
Thanos - Ebony Maw
Darkseid - Desaad
Sauron - The Mouth of Sauron
Every bad guy needs a mouth piece!
I had always assumed that the Mouth, like his master, fled the destruction of his master's realm and ventured somewhere distant to establish a smaller, evil realm out of the reach of the men of the west. Possibly, he fled to far Harad, or to Ruhn, or somewhere further east and build his own tower, using his power and stature to set himself over some group. Maybe the heirs of the Lords of the West came into conflict with him at some point in the future
In the theatrical version, you can see right before Aragorn charges, he has blood on his sword which makes no sense without having decapitated mr Mouth. So all the more reason they shouldn't have cut the scene.
He got Ligma, that's why his teeth are so messed up
I imagine the Witchking was Sauron's right hand man for war, whilst the mouth of sauron was his right hand man for politics / negotiations with allies.
Sauron could hardly visit every allied village, town or settlement so would need to send an ambassador to speak on his behalf. The ring wraiths were undead and created a sense of fear and dread wherever they go. Sauron wanted to ensure his allies followed him and treated the humans far better than his orcs, trolls, etc. He would require a living man to communicate with his allies. Sauron completely surrounded himself in unsettling monsters so it makes sense for him to use a living man to communicate with his living human allies.
The fact the Mouth of Sauron was sent to talk with the enemy army at the black gate also suggests his job involved politics and negotiation with others.
I believe Mouth of Sauron was roughly at the same level as *Imrahil*. Yes, he was a coward, but he have learned some witchcraft and was after all the lieutenant of Barad-dûr itself! But no, he is not at the same level as Witch-king for example.
*First in my mind became Salgant, cause he was a coward too, and he has propably seen the light of the Two Trees. So he might be quite close to the Mouth, but...🤷♂️
Another, albeit extremely minor point of contention rests with the 1980 animated Mouth - or Voice Of Sauron. Different sources at different times have said it was either Rankin-Bass deep Vet Paul Frees or John "Mr. Slate" Stephenson. I've even heard Don "Scooby Doo" Messick. The explanation I have heard is that these productions often rushed to get the job done, and for minor characters did not keep track of who voiced whom.
I will offer a defense to the RoTK film. Yes, killing a messenger or emissary is barbaric and against custom, but it could have given false hope to Sauron that his enemies' position and standing was more desperate and dire than it seemed, for Aragorn to do such a thing.
Right. They called Sauron and his forces out in an effort to provide a distraction, empty Mordor and give Sam and Frodo easier passage to Mount Doom. Sauron probably thought they were all just idiots, but Aragorn slaying the Mouth would have given Sauron the impression they were desperate and didn't have much of an ulterior motive. The Mouth's slaying isn't book-canon, but it's not too out-of-character for Aragorn either, even if it's distasteful.
The Mouth of Sauron's dayjob mighta just been more of what he did as Sauron's main messenger: Running orders back and forth between Sauron and lesser beings under his sway, as well as perhaps dealing with day to day matters too small to bother Sauron himself over/delivering important information, reports, and news heard from lessers such as spies to him - Though I expect Sauron would have gotten a report from the Mouth whenever he dealt with minor matters on his behalf, so he stays in the loop and yet could keep his main focus on larger more important matters. So basically middle-management stuff and the likes, which probably came in handy as Sauron did have a rather large orc force to keep in line.
After learning of the literary corruption of Amazon's *dUh TuRd Uv DeR rAnGs,* I began to seek out the original film trilogy clips. Somehow I stumbled here but I'm grateful I found the channel. I've procrastinated for too long to learn more of Middle-Earth's lore & now it is the time for this more than ever before.
Thank you! 🙏
I would say when comparing whether the Mouth or Aragorn is more powerful, you would need to take into consideration that he is indeed a formidable sorcerer. And being a king doesn't necessarily make Aragorn stronger. It's a title, that certainly comes with influential power. We also have seen his fears as a warrior so it's questionable whether the Mouth could even parry his attacks, but then again, there is not enough information on this character to really gauge this. Of course in a fight within the context of the story arc, Aragorn would have to win, bc plot armor, but in the matter of personal power, we truly don't know what a sorcerer like The Mouth of Sauron is truly capable of.
This was a great scene in the book where Aragorn demonstrates his power over other men. Even the powerful Black Numenorean is defeated in a battle of wills with the heir of Elendil. He rakes a step back as if physically assaulted by Aragorn.
Finally some real lore
@@joeldineiro6729 Thank you. The film ruined the scene.
Nice pfp, Weyland-Yutani!
@@sceneitallwithjeffandjon6984 spot on
@@sceneitallwithjeffandjon6984 Thank you.
I agree with you about the age of this creature and where he came from.
He is twisted by Sauron and can’t be that powerful
Love the depiction in the film, from design to casting, for that dude is all mouth.
At 5:03, the rising smoke and fire releasing from the volcano in the background looks like its forming the face of an orc.
Who is more "powerful"? If the mouth had prolonged his life for thousands of years, then the answer is clear. But that is only one expression of power and mastery. What is more powerful the pen or the sword? If the ability to sway others around your cause is considered an expression of power which it undoubtedly is, Aragorn is by far the clear winner. Being a top lieutenant irregardless of to whom, is still not as powerful as a King commanding thousands loyal to him willing to die for a purpose they believe in, rather an are compelled to follow through fear of retribution.
if the mouth of sauron was in deed as close to sauron as depicted, then i would like to assume that he must be in the thousands of years old. also, with long age, it would make sense that his "old name" would be forgotten. I also like believe that he is quite powerful. Otherwise he would not be sitting at the head table. He was probably, IMO, an advisor to sauron.
7:00 Like Denethor and Faramir, but evil?
Before you mentioned that there is a theory that The Mouth lived through the Second Age i would never have thought about the possibility.
First, as you rightfully said, the quote is very unambiguous: "When it first rose again." The stress here is clearly on again, *not* on first. According to the books, Barad Dûr was rebuilt when Sauron returned to Mordor, which was only after the White Council attacked Dol Guldur during the events of The Hobbit. Yet, that does not need to be the exact time when he entered the service of Sauron. "The service of the Black Tower" and the "first rise" could very well refer to the regaining of power of the realm for which the tower was a symbol, not the thing itself. Which would put the begin of his service somewhere between 2002 and 2941 TA.
The other viewpoint would mean that he was already a powerful sorcerer about 1000 SA (which is when the building started), making him more than 5000 years old. If sorcery of any kind could achieve that, the black Numenorians would have lived *longer* than their faithful brethren, but infact they lived shorter. The one and only possibility for him to live that long would have been with a ring of power - which he did not possess, otherwise he would have become a wraith. He is human after all.
As for his power - how do you mean that question? There are many forms of power. Could he have beaten Aragorn in a 1:1? Well, given that Eowyn could beat the Witchking, sure, why not. Could he beat someone like Gandalf or maybe Glorfindel? Not a chance in hell. As a sorcerer he might be as powerful as the Witchking before he became a wraith.
I wonder if had the Witch King not been defeated prior to this encounter, he’d have been sent to treat with Aragorn and Gandalf. Sending another Nazgul in his place would have been a a reminder of Sauron’s defeat at Minas Tirith, and sending the Mouth avoided such humiliation.
As for the Mouth of Sauron, I think he was more of an administrator for Barad-dûr, maintaining the keep, garrison, and prisoners. At the same time, I don’t believe “Mouth of Sauron” is really his name, more of a title or designation of role. He speaks as Sauron’s Mouth, nothing more. In fact, it’s more than likely there were Mouths before the one we met in the book.
Tolkien often strayed from accurate punctuation. To me, the mouth of Sauron served a second time. The “again” was stating that he was still loyal. Sauron wouldn’t trust a 100 year old being with tasks so large.
The Mouth of Sauron was literally the intended successor of Saruman in Isengard. A servant of Sauron but yet very powerful.
"His day to day responsibilities" made me laugh out loud.
Future video: who was the witch-king of angmar
It's speculated he might have been a Numenoreon prince, but I'm not sure if that's a fan theory tho.
"first rose again" does seem to imply after the rebuilding in the 3rd age, if referring to Barad-dûr. However, it also implies that it wasn't the last time it rose again, which doesn't fit if referring to Barad-dûr, with the information we know.
So there is either a lost history of Barad-dûr being rebuilt before the time in the 3rd age, or after the events of "Return of the King" Barad-dûr was meant to rise again.
Just my take on it.
On an almost entirely unrelated note, why are overlords considered bad? A fiend is often an evil being of some sort, an overfiend is a much more powerful evil being. A lord is a ruler who commands respect, or a god, but an overlord is viewed as a dictator or great evil. Just food for thought.
Tolkien noted that the Numenoreans mostly lost their great lifespan by living in and partaking of Middle Earth itself.
The "right name" of Sauron was Mairon. "Sauron" was a name given to him by the elves. "Mairon" is probably the name that Aragorn was saying that no one had permission to use, so the Mouth wouldn't have been violating this edict.
First, amazing video as always, I dont think that he was powerfull at all he was just in the service of Sauron and Saurons powers powered him, when Sauron would want to.
It’s interesting to think that as a black numenorean and as a defendant of Numenor the Mouth of Sauron and Aragorn come from very similar if not the same bloodlines and went down very different paths. Perhaps the Mouth of Sauron was a parallel to Aragorn being a man of similar blood and longevity and they went down very different roads one leading to service from a desire for power and one leading to ruling and leadership from a desire to do good and not wanting power at first but accepting his responsibility as heir to Gondor’s Throne. I always loved the characters design and own a lot of merchandise based off of the Mouth of Sauron and he’s that much more poignant being a man not an orc or ringwraith.
I believe Mouth of sauron is more powerful than we think. Yeah he didn’t fight but no one has seen anything similar or exactly like the thing he’s riding on until they see him face to face. Not to mention every creature they bump into had some sort of history or explanation as to what it was or what it could do. However, not a single explanation as to what he was riding on other than it looked like a black horse.
As a sorcerer he could have created that thing.
Do you also have a podcast feed?? ☺️ loving your content!
I would think that he may have been a sorcerer of enough skill to escape the final battle and collapse of the tower. It would be interesting to consider what he became in later years. Skillfully hidden using guile and sorcery, I would t be surprised to find him a trusted councilor to someone very prominent. ;)
I thought I saw him get his head cut off by Aragorn in the extended edition, you said you weren't sure if he died , I remember seeing his head get cut off
Meh, just a flesh wound.
The book didn't mention his death. That was an artistic liberty taken by Jackson. A good scene, but not book-canon.
The movie isn't canon, just poetic licensing.
I just wish sauron was in lord of rings for longer and actually see him in action and be great if they did a film about him on how he became sauron
I absolutely adore your logo!
I seem to remember that there is a possibility that the Mouth of Sauron was the Messenger who came to Dain in Erebor and offered him rings of power for the dwarves' friendship.
It wasn't friendship but confirmation of or information about " Baggins" and "Shire" that was plied from Gollum just prior to TLODR...I think; I'm pretty sure MenoftheWest covers this point in one of his videos. Was totally going to share this point until I came across your comment, cheers
@@aaronj3924
BTW, I got the word "friendship" straight out of the passage in the book.
@@Enerdhil good to know, I apologize if I came across as all-knowing, I meant to leave an air of possibility open, in case I was missing something.
@@aaronj3924
I didn't think you came across as all-knowing although you obviously know a lot. It's all good.😁
@@aaronj3924 TLODR?? The Lord of Da Rings?
“The halfling was dear to thee I see “
How powerful was the Mouth of Sauron? He is a sorceror who had extended his lifespan, so quite powerful by human standards. However, I doubt that his sorcery could equal the magical powers of any of the Wizards, or even of Elrond or Galadriel. He was powerful in the way that evil is powerful, with all of the flaws that implies. Perhaps his powers were on the level of the Ringwraiths.
I love your channel
Thank you! :D