yeah this seems like it, I can't agree with him on p3s though, that has nothing to do with pf, the arena is horrible that's one thing and another is the fight having an add phase, this isn't WoW, we don't need or want that, completely surprised me there ngl, the fight is an automatic F just for those two for me
@@bloodyDeagle77 P3 has the same issue p10 has. People can't do spreads into stacks. It was a problem after tornados it is a problem during bonds 3. So you just have to hope it's stacks first.
@@bloodyDeagle77 i think it has everything to do with pf as well. From people being unabe to count to 4, to the entire "i lost my partner xd", to "why do we have 6 people on this side and 2 dps still died to divebombs" to "i forgot which nado group i am in xdddd" to astro not pressing macrocosmos before deaths toll, during prog and farm i feel like i have experienced every single way a mechanic can be done incorrectly in p3s. Static wouldnt.
@@bloodyDeagle77 p3s had a more creative add phase though. The arena was fine, literally just stop playing with gshade filters and your arena wont blind you.
My friend described P10S as P7S except instead of the body checks & complexity being backloaded to the end of the fight, it’s pretty much consistently challenging the entire fight, with body checks after almost every major mechanic. Totally agree with it being S
I like that they're messing more with arena shapes, and going in day 1 as a healer even on normal Harrowing Hell was a bit of a wakeup. More of that please. :D
@@RoxanaEstella They're lying cause they get no shit for it. If you're someone who can't play all day noone in FF will value your time. This whole positivity stuff needs to get a break in this game. Shouldn't be the case to lose tens of hours cause there's literally EVERY single PF 1-2ppl proglying asf and noone will even call it out until 1h passes.
@@Bankai90 I think people tend to not call out because, 1 you might get report for toxicity, 2 they all focus on their stuffs so they didn't noticed, 3 they didn't care enough to make a big deal out of it since its a prog pt
P5S definitely gets an S+ for impact. Not only did it disband the static I joined for that tier in a matter of hours, but trying to PF that fight was so bad that I just walked away from savage for the tier. Devour had 2 patterns, and it still short circuted people's brains.
I killed it in PF in 2 lockouts week 1 with a devour practice group somehow........better than my static did but we did have to cancel most of week1 anyway
Best thing is one pattern even had a super simple solution and the mechanics was downtime. Still insane how often people got caught in it when the only thing you had to do is run either half a circle or half a circle and then half a circle back.
@@GOffensive Not during the first three days it wasn't. Spent the entirety of day 2 and 3 in kill groups that failed basic stack/spread mechanics, decided I was going to skip this tier.
P10S is really a gate way of "are you lucky enough to get good players who can play without dying during bond 3" or "are you unlucky enough to get fucked by pf who said they cleared but still getting hit by circle/holy"
I really think that for P11s they really had no real idea what to do with the fight. Almost the entire fight consists out of the same typ of mechanics, that in other fights would only be filler's between bigger mechs. They just didnt know how to design interesting mechs in that fight.
Which is strange because the normal mode dark and light circles were incredibly interesting, only to be absent from the savage... which means the circles were invented solely for the normal mode? Maybe they were afraid of the dark/light motif stepping on the toes of 12 with its tower and beam mechanics. My mind immediately turns to e11s, where they introduced a third element. In p11s, maybe have him do dark and light simultaneously for certain mechanics?
The only interesting mech was Dark and Light, for sure. They should have done more with that. Reminded me of Khaliya from Final Coil...but worse in some ways. I like the concept of being tethered to someone else, and if we're close tethers we have to make sure our movement is the same direction, while long tethers need to make sure their movements are in-synch so they don't get too close.
idk i fucking hate tanking it. missing the platform is basically a wipe, limit cut sucks ass, harrowing stresses me the fuck up and i dont have cooldowns up for tank towers post harrowing
I think any fight consisting of extensive bodychecks is hard, but Harrowing Hell is actually easy if you get the party to sit at max melee and the tanks on the hitbox. The raidwide damage is SIGNFICANTLY lower, to the point where you don't even need an LB.
P10S on paper is very good but as a healer that had to prog it through PF (because I couldn't find a static on time) it was SO frustrating. The problem is that most PF players seem to never manage their defensive cooldowns so Harrowing Hell was just a nightmare to prog. I was using EVERYTHING I had on it as Sage, Panhaima, Kerachole, Holos, Zoe, Physis 2, Pneuma, Ixochole while also spamming Eukrasian Prognosis and we sometime still had a death or two.
@@hirokjyotideka5571 I did time my cooldowns to be be up for all hits of Harrowing Hell but yeah pretty much weaving everything otherwise it just was never enough unfortunately. I tried to talk about mitigation with them too mind you but PF just isn't talkative whatsoever for that kind of stuff so my only option was pressing all the buttons sadly.
@@uytm1 that would be assuming your average PF group was good enough not to fuck up the spread/stack with a half room cleave so I don't have to heal LB right after to keep the run going.
I love fights with uniquely-shaped arenas so P2S and P10S are among my favorites. I have a soft spot for P7S but yeah I have to admit it's a really boring and horribly-paced fight. I dunno why they couldn't just spread out the harvests to different sections of the fight.
agreed on p6s being bad. it was the worst fight last tier by a LONG shot imo. especially on classes that needed uptime to build gauge, and stay on time for bursts. the amount of moving away for mechs, was annoying. and the fight just wasnt fun in general. and 5 was def my fave last tier also.
You are spot on about playing in ShB making p11s feel worse, but for an entirely different reason. 5.3 is one of my all time favourite bosses and p11s just feels hollow by comparison. it's not the worst fight this expansion, but it's a massive letdown for me.
I love the pole and the webbing mech from P10s, it’s fresh and fun to build a barrier for a kb. P9s was ok I guess, not much to say, the damage check is completely non existent. As for P11s seems to lack creativity. The uses of light and dark didn’t compared much to the webbing in P10s. (Still progging 12 so I won’t say anything about it)
12:52 heph wasnt joking. we did get to know his rage when he broke the perception of the game balance in half people argued before that all the homogeneity was for the sake of making the game well balanced. our boy heph proved that completely wrong
I think the homogeneity makes it better balanced in the fact that like, one tank doesn't do 50% more dps than another. It's a pretty minor difference, but that difference mattered when it was so tightly and intensely tuned.
I remember PFing p4s and I swear to god the callouts I gave to a party who were freshprogging p4s2 we killed it second pull. I still consider it a miracle but I think everyone was just so down to run where they were told and there wasn’t much individual responsibility. A lot of “tanks/healers move now, then the dps” Like if any of them knew anything or had an idea what to do it woulda been a wipe (and we did have deaths) but everyone was so fresh they just took all instruction blindly.
I think P10S is a brillant boss, Creative mechanics, A unique stage layout, It's not overly complicated, Super duper demanding on the execution. I worry that some of the snapshotting in that fight is pushing the server hardware to its absolute limits.
The real bad thing is just towers. You can really see the limits of the netcode, server, engine, whatever. The pushback feels weird, also with it being relative to your position to the tower not the direction of the laser. How it targets and locks onto targets and it is just so much running around for the tanks, while everyone else just stands around and waits for their turn. But in general it was nice that figuring out what do to in P10S was quite easy. Everything is very straight forward. Doing it blind it was nice that the first idea one had generally worked. The towers were probably the hardest part to figure since there are a lot of unknowns you have to test first. How they target, how much damage they deal, what patterns there are. But in total it also only took like 2 wipes with all people alive to develop a strat that worked.
I have to disagree for P6S, the fact that people hold LB3 until tank LB3 to bypass Cachexia 2 in order to skip the mechanic flushes this fight down the toiler. The fact that A: A mech can be entirely skipped cause of LB3 is kinda whack (where as no other fights in the entire raid tier had a mech that you were meant to do properly, LB3 skippable) and B: Because you can skip the mech with LB3, I think that tanks how cool Cachexia was as a mech and thus puts it to WTF.
The thing that pissed me off the most about this is that, despite tank lb3ing, my group still somehow pointed ALL their cones at me and I'd die anyway. Every. Time. Like...??? The point of lb3ing was more so if one or two people forgot to look the appropriate direction, it wouldn't kill people. But they ended up just using it as an excuse to be lazy about the mechanic and killed people anyway.
P2s you could skip the end of it with tank lb. My group did that and many others did week 1. After week 1 it didn’t matter tho and neither did P6s. Oh also O11s had a mech you would tank lb too. But I agree LB3 cheesing a mech shouldn’t be a thing.
@@DEJ915it’s not that the mech is that hard, it’s around cach 1 levels, it’s just that there is no reason to learn it as tank lb works just fine, also it’s at the very end of the fight so it would be a pain to learn it. Throw in the fact that after a few weeks you just skip it entirely and there is really no reason for anyone to ever learn the mech past what squares don’t give you dds
I will say that mechanic wise P3S was one of the best fights but I have to put the design as a huge factor for me and my experience with the fight dropped to hell because of that. Getting out of raid for a bit and talking more design starting Endwalker we had Zodiark which was a really cool scenario and stuff but then we went to Hydaelyn. I'm light sensitive af and even with me brigthness at lowest possible it was kinda hard for me not because of the fight but because it's really hard for me to keep looking at it and stuff then I thought myself "well I think they can't come with something worse" and they did. Not only I'm light sensitive but I'm kinda colorblind to the hot colors (red, yellow and orange), not just that but they made it was also bright af and most of the times I COULD NOT SEE AT ALL what was happening even tho I was really paying attention to the fight. I've had to memorize (like, tell the exact order, timing and all the stuffs happening) through the entire fight (like every single thing, really) to a point that it was ok for me to not exactly pay attention to what was happening because I already knew (besides specific pattern changes and stuff) and that was really exhausting. I couldn't even see the tank tether (yeah I'm a tank main) and that's how bad it was for me. Having a BLM in the party back then when the 2 min burst was happening during one of the bursters and the BLM wouldn't be behind was just "ok then you take it cause I can't see shit" which was not their fault but I couldn't do anything for them I don't have a really good computer so the GShade thing by that time was not an option for me because 1- I didn't know how to setup that and people I knew by that time didn't use it and 2- my PC performance was dropping to hell when I tried and it was already too hard for me doing that in an average FPS so dropping it to like 20~30 was not an option since I was used to play 60+ so I would have to relearn the game. TL;DR: If the fight had a better design at all and kept the mechanics I would put it as an absolute S but my particular experience drops it to an C or something. I still remember everything about this fight.
I do agree that tanks take 0 damage now, warriors can cheese everything, and nearly every single tb can be invulned in this tier. Both P9S swaps, in P10S first 2+HH can be invulned(using tank lb on HH means extra invulns on the next buster so technically you can do every tb), 3/4 of P11S tbs, if you dont lazy laser you can invuln both Glaukopis in P12S P1, P2 can be alternated until the last Crush Helm. It hits like a wet noodle, I havent needed to use Tauro and Haima more than twice in any fight this tier. The most I use it is in P10S tank towers for the bleeds, but after week 1, it stopped actually requiring it. Actually, nothing hurts at all, I haven't needed gcd shields in any fight until P12S SC1, even on Week 1. P10S is optional gcd shielding, but I dont think its worth risking in pf considering how cursed it is
Haven't cleared P10S by the time I write this. I play tank, and to me it's one of the most intense fights for a tank I've played. The TB Towers? It's easy to get cocky with them. A slightest misstep with them can end the fight quickly. The turrets? It can be confusing. The bonds? They are a killer, if you don't pay attention. Harrowing Hell? If tanks don't know, how to use mitigations, don't even try it.
Tank towers are so unforgiving. If you misstep and fall down it is a wipe, there is nothing you can do to recover failing later ones really. I think only the first ones you might be able to recover but at that point why try it is only 1 minute into the fight anyway. I would not want to play tank in this fight and wipe the group because I did not align perfectly.
What's weird about p10s is it's one of the easiest fights ever released, mechanically. But so. Many. Body checks. It's fun, but by the end I found it absolutely infuriating, because the entire fight for me was waiting for the slower players to figure it out.
I love and hate p10s, which would make it an S tier for me personally xD On paper the fight is amazingly thought-out, but because of that it's hell for those that try to pf it
It is quite frustrating to do. I cleared it now 2 times with my static and the reclear took an hour. In week 3 we sadly were missing some people so we tried to fill with PF which did not work. I then later tried myself in PF and it took me 2 hours to clear, with my second group staying together for almost the whole lockout. It is insane in how many different ways yoan wipe, the group even got Bonds 3 quite consistently, but there is so much after that still can go wrong.
P6S is also really a fight which is not memorable at all. Even while doing it even after 2 months I could not remember the order of mechanics. I always just reacted to what I saw. I once did the fight with my co healer not knowing it, we were in VC and just explained rough positions as we went through the fight and just rezzed him all the time. We did first try. That this is possible shows how easy of an fight it really is. We did not even overgear it completely I think most people were at like 620 ilvl.
Yeah it wasn't hard at all; it was just busywork. Which is fine for some of a second boss, but it also wasn't that exciting. The only memorable thing really is getting to Cach2 and accidentally Taco Bell breathing/farting on your healers to ruin the clear. Personally I find P7S to be harder than he made it out to be, but that's probably because it was my first tier haha. That and prepping yourself for Death/War/Famine after 8 minutes of a creative DPS check it took some getting used to. P7S was way better than P6S imho.
My own notes talking about how 12 door did not have a check and about how deaths are irrelevant to a check: Our first kill of this fight, our paladin got brinked in limit cut. We also were doing a stupid 1 3 5 7 buff timing that lost us the majority of our last buff window. But we still killed it even though it was messy af. Compared to the same group having a clean enrage on p8 door. 12 final also had no check, we had 5 deaths week 1 and enraged at 0.2%. The second we got that death number down to 3, we killed. Thats not a check at all. Bring back p8s doorboss check. Bring back e8s check. I want that experience of suffering week 1 and just barely making it, that sense of adrenaline and accomplishment is heightened when you have to have clean pulls with good rotations.
P4S kicked my ass. But I got pretty good at it in just under 6 hours ( 2 sessions) as a Sage. That was also my first Savage and having to use Video's to learn the fight. It also somewhat scared me from doing other Savages in this tier because the other ones I heard were stupid hard compared to P4S.
P5S in PF made me quit PF raiding entirely. Devour was just the most anti-pf mechanic ever. Even when I had that shit down to perfection it took me 6h+ of prog on reclears due to someone messing it up everytime.
I have no strong data to compare this raid series to since my first Savage was Eden's Promise after Echo had already been added. That said, I did feel a lot of these anyway. People hated P3S because pf was a drag, but I honestly really appreciated the difficulty of it. I didn't hate P6S but it was far too follow-the-leader-y and as long as I was doing call outs and people were following them, it was almost always a clear if we got past Cachexia 1. I haven't finished 11 or 12 yet so I can't comment, but aside from my static struggling with P10S I love that fight. Especially the tank yeet towers. Genuinely sad when I do normal and Tanks don't get yote.
I agree with most of this except p10s, I think it should be way lower just because it fucks over players with higher ping Anyways p2s and p8s are my favorite fights of this expansion, hippo is my son love him
@@mrdarkstar3756 the part where nothing happens for 10 minutes straight and then you do the mechanic fine and 1 person fucks it up and says "tee hee I've never got that marker before sorry" and you have do 10 minutes of nothing again
P8S can rot in the farthest depths of hell. Absolutely hated that fight, and it burnt me way the fuck out. It literally made me drop my static because I just couldn't deal with anymore. As a NIN main the timing for 2min windows made that fight miserable.
P11s was one of the most fun I've had in forever. P12s door boss was ass, and the second part was mid. P10s was trash and required too much luck. P9s was okay.
@@ashleybricco4107 It felt to me that they swapped P10S and P11S around because of story reasons. I'm trying to think of the story flow if we just finished beating Kyotos then Themis then Pandaemonium, it doesn't really fir the theme they were going for with the other characters in the story. It is most or less a rehash of E11S but instead of Fire, Lightning and holy (which symbolize Ranjit's and Innocence's elements), it is just Light and Dark with Light+Dark. I consider E11S and P11S more fo bread and butter savage fights, they are you staples that gradually build throughout the fight, but not particularly exciting.
I’d probably put p6 below p7 but thats about all i’d change, p7 was 9 minutes of nothing then wiping to first harvest because pf is bad, but p6 was nothing the whole way except for cachexia because pf just tank lb cachexia 2
Tank LB3 completely trivializes Harrowing Hell, the rest is just a long-ass slog consisting of non-stop repeating mechanics... oh look it's another ultima into a tank stack into tank towers into webs, dunno what makes people praise this as "OMG the best fight ever"
my best guess is that it was a PF nightmare for that tier. Thus making it rather infamous to a majority of party's. In hindsight i don't think it was really that difficult of a fight but i didn't pf it so take my view with a grain of salt.
If they hadnt made it such a bright orange i would have liked it more. The colour palette for the arena was bad. I had to crank my pcs screen brightness way down in order to prog. Otherwise playing it as AST was so fun because of the healer mechs.
Fight wasnt bad, maybe a little bland at points. The arena was just awful and the ost too made me not want to do it, even thought the fight itself was fine.
Pacing was good, difficulty felt right for a 3rd turn, one of the last fights were tanks can actually be responsible for positioning the boss instead of it being a giant hitbox that auto-recenters.
@@bophadesknutz7798 This is exactly my sentiment of p3s looking back. The mechanics are amazing, but it's mainly the color choices of the layers of orange on a fire boss that made it horrible. Also I'm going to die on this hill, but Ancient Shackles was an amazing song, it's just we were forced to listen to it for 3 straight fights.
I want to love P10S, but that fight is a fucking D for me because in spite of it's really unique design, players with high ping (WHICH IS LIKE HALF OF NA BECAUSE SE PUT THE FUCKING ENTIRE NA DC IN A DINKY ASS CORNER OF THE WEST COAST, AND SO I NOW HAVE EQUAL PING ON BOTH NA AND EU), we get to experience half of the mechanics not working. e.g.: Turrets just not following your character, debuff pairs requiring you to move before the debuff actually disappears. TEA gave me fewer issues with even higher ping. Also Xeems spittin' facts in regards to tank mits. Really isn't a point to having so many when it's either just kitchen sink it or invuln for every damn buster.
I disagree with pheonix. My group spent 3 days progging that, and 3 weeks progging p4s. and I still hate p3 more. Ads are horrible, the visual clarity is horrible. If you bring an astro an entire mechanic doesn't even exist.
Tbh I'd probably enjoy p10 more but my god party finder cannot do that fight. Bond 3 groups that can't do turrets, dw3 groups that can't do bond 3, HH groups that cant do bond 3 or make the wall, "kill" groups that can't do HH. One group I had the other tank repeatedly died to HH after like 5 hits and wouldnt use their invuln. Worst prog experience I've ever had. I'm taking a break before jumping into p11 but I really hope its not this bad
P11 is way easier but PF is still moronic and will die to Dark & Light and/or Letter of the Law. I even had one group who wiped us to Dark & Light and went 'welp, at least we made it :D'. So yeah, it's similar to P10 in that the real boss is the 7 other idiots you have to work with but at least the fight isn't as stressful.
Tbh, I feel like xeno hasn't even played real pf... p7s actually had a hard dps check for real pf... ppl failed at 1 % with 0 death and melee lb! (sad but true story) And sadly it's the same with the latest tier....
P10 is truly f'd up. Bond 3 is the hardest mechanic in the tier and reqs pf to healer lb 95% of the time. Each bond is also an attention check so pf unfriendly. The execution for many areas is unnecessarily tight and not even satisfying to perform. It was a fun fight to prog cuz the stage was unique but reclearing it is cbt
P3s was peak pf performance. Shitty strats, group switching like every fucking mechanic (in PF because PF is stupid) and you could spend 11 hours in PF without getting a full group on day 3 of the tier. And if the party filled, you'd wipe because counting to eight is hard.
P7S is legit when I just gave up on 14. I cleared it, yea, but farming it made me question my time spent in this game. Am I really ok with spending 9 minutes of the fight doing absolutely bumfuck nothing only to get to the only good part of the raid which is the last two minutes of the fight? Really? Fuck this kind of fight design because to me this was almost all of Pandamonium to me minus P4S and P8S. Of course this wasn't helped by me not liking the design direction of like literally every class in the game, so if I don't enjoy the combat in its current state, and I don't enjoy the raids in their current state, and if Yoshi P keeps doubling down on this direction, then maybe 14 isn't for me anymore.
Yeah I agree. The jobs feel like a dumbed down extension of their shadowbringers counterparts so I was at least hoping the raids would make up for it but most were incredibly mid. As a melee I also really dislike the huge hitboxes as they leave no room for optimization so it really feels no different to playing a ranged. Like why do I even have a gapcloser lol. However I will say DSR was fucking amazing and has been the highlight of the expansion for me.
@@psyonicpanda Imagine wanting more than 2/10ths of a fight to be fun, how "entitled" for a fastforward button, man... Imagine wanting to ratio me so bad that you have such low standards from a game you pay $15/mo for.
@@psyonicpanda You missed an important part of the OP. "because to me this was almost all of Pandamonium to me minus P4S and P8S." It wasn't just one fight... it was almost every fight. P6S and P7S are easily the worst offenders, some people say 6 is worse, some say 7 is worse, idc because they're both terrible and they are the logical conclusion to the fight design philosophy that Square Enix has had going on since Eden started. The only reason why every single fight isn't as bad is because Square Enix keeps making happy accidents with some of the fights, like P5S being an absolute banger of a well paced fight, or Pinax being the best mechanic period in all of savage this expansion. Let's say you clear P7S week 3 and you have to go through P6S and P7S just to touch P8S? One bad fight, you can sort of forgive (shouldn't really), but two? Why subject yourself to this if SE's version of an amazing fight has been mid at best? And if you really are gonna say "agree to disagree" on fight design, then surely you should be able to respect that maybe my subjective take on the fights and me not enjoying them compared to alex or omega or ucob means maybe I shouldn't play something I don't enjoy, instead of being a strawmanning dick in the comments. If I don't enjoy the majority of what SE makes, then why should I farm what I don't enjoy just for the hope that they make another E4S level fight (or whatever your idea of a banger is?)
I mean, as a PLD player, I hated having to kitchen sink in UWU because the next time I took a buster I would have... Rampart :D I think having Bulwark to go with rampart is good and outside of that I tend to do Rampart, Bluwark, Sheltron then Sentinel and sheltron. There definitely is not a low enough amount of busters to only have to invuln or kitchen sink in most fights. I mean look at P10S, every ultima has stack buster which I use small CDs, Honestly invuln is reserved for harrowing hell if we have to heal LB because people can't spread and stack properly. And sentinel is for the tower busters. But then if you look at P11S you can 100% just invuln kitchen sink, heck WAR can invuln both.
I actually disagree about how good P10S is. Not because of hiw it is as a figjt, its a famtastic fight. Ots just a terrible SECOND fight. Yiu saud it yourself, it's harder than some fourth fights. In what world is that a healthy quality for a second fight?
Using PF farm and impact when most of PF hasn't clear p11s and p12s. Lol. Also, p10s is easy and I clear it in PF week 1. Ya, body checks but it another snooze fest like p7s. It's boring free mechanics until hallow. The only reason it's hard in PF is you got a lot of animals in PF who don't respect mechanics.
was kinda offended that P11 ended up being C…personaly it was the most perfect fight I could ask for MAYBE bit biased since my first i loves the idea of light and dark mechanics but it was just perfection
Its a really boring fight. As Xenos said, too much revolved around the partner/light party stack combined with moving in or out. It only hardly felt different from normal mode, except for right at the end with Dark & Light and Letter of the Law and even those mechanics didnt introduce anything new really. Letter of the Law is literally just a bunch of mechanics we've seen up to this point with towers thrown in the middle of it.
I love 11s but I see why others don't feel the same and don't blame them. I just loooooved e11s so I'm biased and the chill music put me in a vibe lol.
This raid tier as a whole is bad. the fights themselves are not bad but as a whole doing them back-to-back its bad. all the fights are pretty much the same just every dps check gets a little harder and the ad a small step to them. you can even add Golbaz extreme to it. pretty much a memory game if you're not in voice chat. remember the cast. look at the colors move with partner while dodging the cleaves and immediately move to with stack or spread. but don't forget to look at the boss because he casting his next surprise. that's floors 1-3 and Golbaz in a nut shell.
@@Paraguai123 every fight is to be done memory is a memory game but this tier flashed a mechanic. did another mechanic then told you to remember the old mechanic. so it made the tier very boring. all of the fight felt the same.
I think 10 is put too high, as a PF player, my goal is simply----clear and reclear in PF, as how useless the gears are in this game, the amount of time spent and will be spending on PF for reclears, is not fun. it is a torture.
oh also, 4s had one impact to the community: the 6.4 job raid buff/heal range or radius buffs are largely after this tier. which well got revealed more during 5-8
Imagine rating Phoinix over Themis :D One is an orange vomit watching paint dry simulator, the other one is a fast paced feast of a fight. Take your pick.
Ngl I think p10s and p3s should be below WTF tier. Horrible fights for people that are not open to having statics and have to rely in party finder. The majority of the community says p10s is a good fight, but I as a healer main that has a considerable amount of history in ultimates and savages, Fucking resent p10s with every fiber of my being. Horrible to prog, horrible to reclear, horrible to look at, fuck harrowing hell, fuck turrets, fuck role spread stacks if you're a high pinged player, fuck wings when I'm trying to break the webs on my teammates but the server ticks don't count me in them even after going through them like 3 times, fuck the boss's face, and oh my fucking god, even the soundtrack, I can't do p9s without having ptsd from my miserable time in p10s. And to think I have to do reclears and in the future log this fight to get a 99 on my astro for my sake of completion makes me want to bury my head in the sand and blink my eyes simultaneously. I even considered not paying my next sub to not prog p12s because i had to look at this stupid boss's face again just for the gear. Oh by the way, p3s was another shithole of miserable experiences with every gloryplume that was a spread, Adds phase were seemingly impossible, Elmo was garbage to execute but pf is made by apes that don't wanna have to think about manually baiting the tornados, fof was fucking insane with the pvp of killing each other with the baited mobs and even the fucking "limit cut" from the beginning of the fight was constantly being memed on, "counting is hard" afterall i guess. Ultimately, p10s brought me more misery than p3s and i played p3s 50 times more so I'm still putting p10s below it. Maybe for tanks it's a more fun experience as I do remember having a lot of fun reprogging p3s on all my tanks, by my input as a pf healer is that p10s is absolute bottom of the barrel garbage that should be removed from this game. I understand why xeems would rate p10s that high because he is playing a seemingly fun role on the fight.
Me: I hate this fight because PF sucked ass at it and wiped me until I wanted to cry
Xeno: This fight's an S because PF sucked at it!
yeah this seems like it, I can't agree with him on p3s though, that has nothing to do with pf, the arena is horrible that's one thing and another is the fight having an add phase, this isn't WoW, we don't need or want that, completely surprised me there ngl, the fight is an automatic F just for those two for me
@@bloodyDeagle77 Add phase was good tho
@@bloodyDeagle77 P3 has the same issue p10 has. People can't do spreads into stacks. It was a problem after tornados it is a problem during bonds 3. So you just have to hope it's stacks first.
@@bloodyDeagle77 i think it has everything to do with pf as well. From people being unabe to count to 4, to the entire "i lost my partner xd", to "why do we have 6 people on this side and 2 dps still died to divebombs" to "i forgot which nado group i am in xdddd" to astro not pressing macrocosmos before deaths toll, during prog and farm i feel like i have experienced every single way a mechanic can be done incorrectly in p3s. Static wouldnt.
@@bloodyDeagle77 p3s had a more creative add phase though. The arena was fine, literally just stop playing with gshade filters and your arena wont blind you.
My friend described P10S as P7S except instead of the body checks & complexity being backloaded to the end of the fight, it’s pretty much consistently challenging the entire fight, with body checks after almost every major mechanic. Totally agree with it being S
Gotta be god tier, S is a disrespect for that fight lmao.
Nah, they're right. P10S is what P7S could've been.
I like that they're messing more with arena shapes, and going in day 1 as a healer even on normal Harrowing Hell was a bit of a wakeup. More of that please. :D
hh day 1 in normal was suprising. we wiped because i wasnt ready for such a heal check in normal
as a healer main who cleared P10S in PF, it definitely belongs into the WTF tier.
With pure luck, i cleared it. I was stuck for 4 days (playing from 8am - 11pm) 90% of the PF that said HH prog or a2c/kill party. THEY'RE LYING
@@RoxanaEstella they really are the most inconsistent players istg. Could be bonds 1 prog or lc memes on enrgae to clear partirs
@@RoxanaEstella They're lying cause they get no shit for it.
If you're someone who can't play all day noone in FF will value your time. This whole positivity stuff needs to get a break in this game.
Shouldn't be the case to lose tens of hours cause there's literally EVERY single PF 1-2ppl proglying asf and noone will even call it out until 1h passes.
@@Bankai90 I think people tend to not call out because, 1 you might get report for toxicity, 2 they all focus on their stuffs so they didn't noticed, 3 they didn't care enough to make a big deal out of it since its a prog pt
@@AngusmcFangus haha yup, I got that so much in pf... kinda sad thinking about how people just like that.. don't they wanna clear? haha
P5S definitely gets an S+ for impact. Not only did it disband the static I joined for that tier in a matter of hours, but trying to PF that fight was so bad that I just walked away from savage for the tier. Devour had 2 patterns, and it still short circuted people's brains.
Yooo, my static did the same, were we in the same static lmfao
@@ari_woof Were you on Crystal? Haha
I killed it in PF in 2 lockouts week 1 with a devour practice group somehow........better than my static did but we did have to cancel most of week1 anyway
Best thing is one pattern even had a super simple solution and the mechanics was downtime. Still insane how often people got caught in it when the only thing you had to do is run either half a circle or half a circle and then half a circle back.
You're better off without any static like that
Thanks for chosing the Synthwalker as background theme :D Super glad to hear you listen to it - Definitely S-Tier Tierlist - keep up the handsome work
They need to put whoever designed panda 5 and panda 10 in charge of future raid design for subsequent expansions
Whoever made p2s needs to get try it again, I can only imagine a boss like that as a final turn could be nutty and a smaller hit box to work for.
No thanks. I like being able to clear in PF. P10s is not realistically clearable in PF without the stars aligning, too difficult for limsa mains.
@@chef416 It is super clearable in PF.
@@GOffensive Not during the first three days it wasn't. Spent the entirety of day 2 and 3 in kill groups that failed basic stack/spread mechanics, decided I was going to skip this tier.
@@chef416 xdd can't clear in 3 days so quits entire patch
P10S is really a gate way of "are you lucky enough to get good players who can play without dying during bond 3" or "are you unlucky enough to get fucked by pf who said they cleared but still getting hit by circle/holy"
I don’t understand why bond 3 is so hard for people…we already did bond 2 with yolo positioning, why cant we do this during a half room cleave?!
@@bwpbwp9613it's mostly the balls and some people being too slow to realize which side to go to.
I really think that for P11s they really had no real idea what to do with the fight. Almost the entire fight consists out of the same typ of mechanics, that in other fights would only be filler's between bigger mechs. They just didnt know how to design interesting mechs in that fight.
Which is strange because the normal mode dark and light circles were incredibly interesting, only to be absent from the savage... which means the circles were invented solely for the normal mode? Maybe they were afraid of the dark/light motif stepping on the toes of 12 with its tower and beam mechanics.
My mind immediately turns to e11s, where they introduced a third element. In p11s, maybe have him do dark and light simultaneously for certain mechanics?
The only interesting mech was Dark and Light, for sure. They should have done more with that.
Reminded me of Khaliya from Final Coil...but worse in some ways. I like the concept of being tethered to someone else, and if we're close tethers we have to make sure our movement is the same direction, while long tethers need to make sure their movements are in-synch so they don't get too close.
I feel like it's p6s mechanically speaking mixed with p7s' pacing and the real mechanics being at the end of the fight
if you're a tank P10S is god tier
if you're a healer it's wtf tier
Based comment, Amen.
Having done the fight on both roles in pf. This is 100% true.
This fight's a blast on healer tho, I actually get to press buttons for once.
idk i fucking hate tanking it. missing the platform is basically a wipe, limit cut sucks ass, harrowing stresses me the fuck up and i dont have cooldowns up for tank towers post harrowing
I think any fight consisting of extensive bodychecks is hard, but Harrowing Hell is actually easy if you get the party to sit at max melee and the tanks on the hitbox. The raidwide damage is SIGNFICANTLY lower, to the point where you don't even need an LB.
P10S on paper is very good but as a healer that had to prog it through PF (because I couldn't find a static on time) it was SO frustrating. The problem is that most PF players seem to never manage their defensive cooldowns so Harrowing Hell was just a nightmare to prog. I was using EVERYTHING I had on it as Sage, Panhaima, Kerachole, Holos, Zoe, Physis 2, Pneuma, Ixochole while also spamming Eukrasian Prognosis and we sometime still had a death or two.
So you basically rolled your face on the keyboard, thanks for the laugh.
Me the pf drg using feint: I'm doing my part 😏
just tank lb xdd
@@hirokjyotideka5571 I did time my cooldowns to be be up for all hits of Harrowing Hell but yeah pretty much weaving everything otherwise it just was never enough unfortunately. I tried to talk about mitigation with them too mind you but PF just isn't talkative whatsoever for that kind of stuff so my only option was pressing all the buttons sadly.
@@uytm1 that would be assuming your average PF group was good enough not to fuck up the spread/stack with a half room cleave so I don't have to heal LB right after to keep the run going.
P7S should be ever lower.
Absolutely. Boring, long and hiding every single difficult mechanic at the end of the fight. Absolutely awful
P7 is in hell
It's my favorite fight of last tier so.... idk
Agree to disagree, p7 was more enjoyable than 6 for me, felt less dull
@@dianitestar1234 Both are just awful but sadly last tier had some amazing looking gear
Killed P10S multiple times already and sometimes I still miss the platform when getting thrown in the tb towers xffing.
I love fights with uniquely-shaped arenas so P2S and P10S are among my favorites. I have a soft spot for P7S but yeah I have to admit it's a really boring and horribly-paced fight. I dunno why they couldn't just spread out the harvests to different sections of the fight.
This and make sleepo strat impossible by making the aoes a lot larger.
devourer was a cooler mechanic pf wise because you can recover it with good tanks, however I like doing LC in my static more
agreed on p6s being bad. it was the worst fight last tier by a LONG shot imo. especially on classes that needed uptime to build gauge, and stay on time for bursts. the amount of moving away for mechs, was annoying. and the fight just wasnt fun in general. and 5 was def my fave last tier also.
You are spot on about playing in ShB making p11s feel worse, but for an entirely different reason. 5.3 is one of my all time favourite bosses and p11s just feels hollow by comparison.
it's not the worst fight this expansion, but it's a massive letdown for me.
I love the pole and the webbing mech from P10s, it’s fresh and fun to build a barrier for a kb. P9s was ok I guess, not much to say, the damage check is completely non existent. As for P11s seems to lack creativity. The uses of light and dark didn’t compared much to the webbing in P10s. (Still progging 12 so I won’t say anything about it)
12:52 heph wasnt joking. we did get to know his rage when he broke the perception of the game balance in half
people argued before that all the homogeneity was for the sake of making the game well balanced. our boy heph proved that completely wrong
I think the homogeneity makes it better balanced in the fact that like, one tank doesn't do 50%
more dps than another. It's a pretty minor difference, but that difference mattered when it was so tightly and intensely tuned.
I remember PFing p4s and I swear to god the callouts I gave to a party who were freshprogging p4s2 we killed it second pull. I still consider it a miracle but I think everyone was just so down to run where they were told and there wasn’t much individual responsibility. A lot of “tanks/healers move now, then the dps”
Like if any of them knew anything or had an idea what to do it woulda been a wipe (and we did have deaths) but everyone was so fresh they just took all instruction blindly.
ok I'm gonna say it: door bosses should either drop loot, unlock p2 for the rest of the week, or not exist
Okay now hear me out, 20 comedy tomes
Why? Do you get the reward in a platformer for reaching the mid-level checkpoint? No you need to beat the full level
@@lucasvallet4487 "or not exist". I liked shiva, that shit woulda been SO lame if it was a door boss
The worst part about door bosses imo is people greeding trying to do a parse run in a prog party, come on lol.
I think P10S is a brillant boss, Creative mechanics, A unique stage layout, It's not overly complicated, Super duper demanding on the execution.
I worry that some of the snapshotting in that fight is pushing the server hardware to its absolute limits.
The real bad thing is just towers. You can really see the limits of the netcode, server, engine, whatever. The pushback feels weird, also with it being relative to your position to the tower not the direction of the laser. How it targets and locks onto targets and it is just so much running around for the tanks, while everyone else just stands around and waits for their turn.
But in general it was nice that figuring out what do to in P10S was quite easy. Everything is very straight forward. Doing it blind it was nice that the first idea one had generally worked. The towers were probably the hardest part to figure since there are a lot of unknowns you have to test first. How they target, how much damage they deal, what patterns there are. But in total it also only took like 2 wipes with all people alive to develop a strat that worked.
I have to disagree for P6S, the fact that people hold LB3 until tank LB3 to bypass Cachexia 2 in order to skip the mechanic flushes this fight down the toiler. The fact that A: A mech can be entirely skipped cause of LB3 is kinda whack (where as no other fights in the entire raid tier had a mech that you were meant to do properly, LB3 skippable) and B: Because you can skip the mech with LB3, I think that tanks how cool Cachexia was as a mech and thus puts it to WTF.
The thing that pissed me off the most about this is that, despite tank lb3ing, my group still somehow pointed ALL their cones at me and I'd die anyway. Every. Time.
Like...??? The point of lb3ing was more so if one or two people forgot to look the appropriate direction, it wouldn't kill people. But they ended up just using it as an excuse to be lazy about the mechanic and killed people anyway.
@@dresamaethat happened to me a lot too lmao
P2s you could skip the end of it with tank lb. My group did that and many others did week 1. After week 1 it didn’t matter tho and neither did P6s. Oh also O11s had a mech you would tank lb too. But I agree LB3 cheesing a mech shouldn’t be a thing.
There was such a long time to get into position and check your buffs I have no idea why anybody needed LB3 for cache2, it was so stupid.
@@DEJ915it’s not that the mech is that hard, it’s around cach 1 levels, it’s just that there is no reason to learn it as tank lb works just fine, also it’s at the very end of the fight so it would be a pain to learn it. Throw in the fact that after a few weeks you just skip it entirely and there is really no reason for anyone to ever learn the mech past what squares don’t give you dds
I will say that mechanic wise P3S was one of the best fights but I have to put the design as a huge factor for me and my experience with the fight dropped to hell because of that.
Getting out of raid for a bit and talking more design starting Endwalker we had Zodiark which was a really cool scenario and stuff but then we went to Hydaelyn. I'm light sensitive af and even with me brigthness at lowest possible it was kinda hard for me not because of the fight but because it's really hard for me to keep looking at it and stuff then I thought myself "well I think they can't come with something worse" and they did.
Not only I'm light sensitive but I'm kinda colorblind to the hot colors (red, yellow and orange), not just that but they made it was also bright af and most of the times I COULD NOT SEE AT ALL what was happening even tho I was really paying attention to the fight. I've had to memorize (like, tell the exact order, timing and all the stuffs happening) through the entire fight (like every single thing, really) to a point that it was ok for me to not exactly pay attention to what was happening because I already knew (besides specific pattern changes and stuff) and that was really exhausting. I couldn't even see the tank tether (yeah I'm a tank main) and that's how bad it was for me. Having a BLM in the party back then when the 2 min burst was happening during one of the bursters and the BLM wouldn't be behind was just "ok then you take it cause I can't see shit" which was not their fault but I couldn't do anything for them
I don't have a really good computer so the GShade thing by that time was not an option for me because 1- I didn't know how to setup that and people I knew by that time didn't use it and 2- my PC performance was dropping to hell when I tried and it was already too hard for me doing that in an average FPS so dropping it to like 20~30 was not an option since I was used to play 60+ so I would have to relearn the game.
TL;DR: If the fight had a better design at all and kept the mechanics I would put it as an absolute S but my particular experience drops it to an C or something. I still remember everything about this fight.
I do agree that tanks take 0 damage now, warriors can cheese everything, and nearly every single tb can be invulned in this tier. Both P9S swaps, in P10S first 2+HH can be invulned(using tank lb on HH means extra invulns on the next buster so technically you can do every tb), 3/4 of P11S tbs, if you dont lazy laser you can invuln both Glaukopis in P12S P1, P2 can be alternated until the last Crush Helm. It hits like a wet noodle, I havent needed to use Tauro and Haima more than twice in any fight this tier. The most I use it is in P10S tank towers for the bleeds, but after week 1, it stopped actually requiring it.
Actually, nothing hurts at all, I haven't needed gcd shields in any fight until P12S SC1, even on Week 1. P10S is optional gcd shielding, but I dont think its worth risking in pf considering how cursed it is
It was cool to hang out with strummer 😊🎉 Also he was looking cute on stream🤗
Haven't cleared P10S by the time I write this. I play tank, and to me it's one of the most intense fights for a tank I've played. The TB Towers? It's easy to get cocky with them. A slightest misstep with them can end the fight quickly. The turrets? It can be confusing. The bonds? They are a killer, if you don't pay attention. Harrowing Hell? If tanks don't know, how to use mitigations, don't even try it.
Tank towers are so unforgiving. If you misstep and fall down it is a wipe, there is nothing you can do to recover failing later ones really. I think only the first ones you might be able to recover but at that point why try it is only 1 minute into the fight anyway.
I would not want to play tank in this fight and wipe the group because I did not align perfectly.
I've quit my static because of P3, they were memeing too much
What's weird about p10s is it's one of the easiest fights ever released, mechanically.
But so. Many. Body checks.
It's fun, but by the end I found it absolutely infuriating, because the entire fight for me was waiting for the slower players to figure it out.
I love and hate p10s, which would make it an S tier for me personally xD On paper the fight is amazingly thought-out, but because of that it's hell for those that try to pf it
It is quite frustrating to do. I cleared it now 2 times with my static and the reclear took an hour. In week 3 we sadly were missing some people so we tried to fill with PF which did not work. I then later tried myself in PF and it took me 2 hours to clear, with my second group staying together for almost the whole lockout. It is insane in how many different ways yoan wipe, the group even got Bonds 3 quite consistently, but there is so much after that still can go wrong.
P6S is the fight that probably had the most potential but fell so so short. It could have been great but it was just so easy.
P6S is also really a fight which is not memorable at all. Even while doing it even after 2 months I could not remember the order of mechanics. I always just reacted to what I saw. I once did the fight with my co healer not knowing it, we were in VC and just explained rough positions as we went through the fight and just rezzed him all the time. We did first try. That this is possible shows how easy of an fight it really is. We did not even overgear it completely I think most people were at like 620 ilvl.
Yeah it wasn't hard at all; it was just busywork. Which is fine for some of a second boss, but it also wasn't that exciting. The only memorable thing really is getting to Cach2 and accidentally Taco Bell breathing/farting on your healers to ruin the clear.
Personally I find P7S to be harder than he made it out to be, but that's probably because it was my first tier haha. That and prepping yourself for Death/War/Famine after 8 minutes of a creative DPS check it took some getting used to. P7S was way better than P6S imho.
NGL, he rocks that wig..,
its like it was crafted by a volcano and melds with his beard hair.
I will always remember p4s, i love this fight xD my first raidtier and the fight i had the most fun with so far
日本語字幕は助かる
ゼノおじの他の動画にも付いてほしい
My own notes talking about how 12 door did not have a check and about how deaths are irrelevant to a check: Our first kill of this fight, our paladin got brinked in limit cut. We also were doing a stupid 1 3 5 7 buff timing that lost us the majority of our last buff window. But we still killed it even though it was messy af. Compared to the same group having a clean enrage on p8 door. 12 final also had no check, we had 5 deaths week 1 and enraged at 0.2%. The second we got that death number down to 3, we killed. Thats not a check at all. Bring back p8s doorboss check. Bring back e8s check. I want that experience of suffering week 1 and just barely making it, that sense of adrenaline and accomplishment is heightened when you have to have clean pulls with good rotations.
10 is probably my favourite fight in the entire game. Like, its just fun.
P4S kicked my ass. But I got pretty good at it in just under 6 hours ( 2 sessions) as a Sage. That was also my first Savage and having to use Video's to learn the fight. It also somewhat scared me from doing other Savages in this tier because the other ones I heard were stupid hard compared to P4S.
Hesperos is king just because the first tier has the cleanest mog that can go with a lot of other items
P5S in PF made me quit PF raiding entirely. Devour was just the most anti-pf mechanic ever. Even when I had that shit down to perfection it took me 6h+ of prog on reclears due to someone messing it up everytime.
I totally agree with P10S is a Master-piece.It's hard but freakin fun
I have no strong data to compare this raid series to since my first Savage was Eden's Promise after Echo had already been added. That said, I did feel a lot of these anyway. People hated P3S because pf was a drag, but I honestly really appreciated the difficulty of it. I didn't hate P6S but it was far too follow-the-leader-y and as long as I was doing call outs and people were following them, it was almost always a clear if we got past Cachexia 1. I haven't finished 11 or 12 yet so I can't comment, but aside from my static struggling with P10S I love that fight. Especially the tank yeet towers. Genuinely sad when I do normal and Tanks don't get yote.
Music not even a criteria smh
because he'd have to put P11S in giga-S tier, and suffer the wrath of everyone with taste because he doesn't like P6/7's song.
I agree with most of this except p10s, I think it should be way lower just because it fucks over players with higher ping
Anyways p2s and p8s are my favorite fights of this expansion, hippo is my son love him
P11 is F for me, too many fillers not really that hard mechanic wise, but the loot is good haha
P7S was so bad it made me quit raiding. Ive never hated a fight more, probably the worst savage fight this game has ever added. Period.
The Tree boss? The famines part?
@@mrdarkstar3756 the part where nothing happens for 10 minutes straight and then you do the mechanic fine and 1 person fucks it up and says "tee hee I've never got that marker before sorry" and you have do 10 minutes of nothing again
@@nexscarecrow the music slaps so hard it wasn't so bad for me lol
@@nexscarecrow and the constant fucking bleeds holy shit
I know this is a year old, but that just invalidates anyone whose first tier was Abyssos. @@nexscarecrow
I think I would put all the 4th turns on S tier except for hesperos and athena p2, and p10s with p3s on WTF tier. With the rest i pretty much agree.
P8S can rot in the farthest depths of hell. Absolutely hated that fight, and it burnt me way the fuck out. It literally made me drop my static because I just couldn't deal with anymore. As a NIN main the timing for 2min windows made that fight miserable.
P11s was one of the most fun I've had in forever. P12s door boss was ass, and the second part was mid. P10s was trash and required too much luck. P9s was okay.
Kokytos should be moved up a tier just because of Crazy Wizard Granny. Best character in Endwalker.
Wth are the two fights on the end of A tier???
P8s p2 and p12s p2
Having both hesperos besides p11s is a crime
After finish P10s, P11s feels like a joke to me.
Huh. P11 felt mechanically harder to me than 10.
@@ashleybricco4107 It felt to me that they swapped P10S and P11S around because of story reasons. I'm trying to think of the story flow if we just finished beating Kyotos then Themis then Pandaemonium, it doesn't really fir the theme they were going for with the other characters in the story. It is most or less a rehash of E11S but instead of Fire, Lightning and holy (which symbolize Ranjit's and Innocence's elements), it is just Light and Dark with Light+Dark. I consider E11S and P11S more fo bread and butter savage fights, they are you staples that gradually build throughout the fight, but not particularly exciting.
I’d probably put p6 below p7 but thats about all i’d change, p7 was 9 minutes of nothing then wiping to first harvest because pf is bad, but p6 was nothing the whole way except for cachexia because pf just tank lb cachexia 2
Just a fun fact, phoinix is Greek for phoenix
i love how PF is just so bad at P10 that make me question are PF actually know how to do mechanic at all everytime i joined clear party ?
Whats the track for the background music Synth cover?
where can i find the ff14 remix music playing in the background?
Tank LB3 completely trivializes Harrowing Hell, the rest is just a long-ass slog consisting of non-stop repeating mechanics... oh look it's another ultima into a tank stack into tank towers into webs, dunno what makes people praise this as "OMG the best fight ever"
Phoenix A cuz its orange
the fascination with p3s is completely loss to me, that fight was fucking awful
my best guess is that it was a PF nightmare for that tier. Thus making it rather infamous to a majority of party's. In hindsight i don't think it was really that difficult of a fight but i didn't pf it so take my view with a grain of salt.
If they hadnt made it such a bright orange i would have liked it more. The colour palette for the arena was bad. I had to crank my pcs screen brightness way down in order to prog. Otherwise playing it as AST was so fun because of the healer mechs.
Fight wasnt bad, maybe a little bland at points. The arena was just awful and the ost too made me not want to do it, even thought the fight itself was fine.
Pacing was good, difficulty felt right for a 3rd turn, one of the last fights were tanks can actually be responsible for positioning the boss instead of it being a giant hitbox that auto-recenters.
@@bophadesknutz7798 This is exactly my sentiment of p3s looking back. The mechanics are amazing, but it's mainly the color choices of the layers of orange on a fire boss that made it horrible. Also I'm going to die on this hill, but Ancient Shackles was an amazing song, it's just we were forced to listen to it for 3 straight fights.
I want to love P10S, but that fight is a fucking D for me because in spite of it's really unique design, players with high ping (WHICH IS LIKE HALF OF NA BECAUSE SE PUT THE FUCKING ENTIRE NA DC IN A DINKY ASS CORNER OF THE WEST COAST, AND SO I NOW HAVE EQUAL PING ON BOTH NA AND EU), we get to experience half of the mechanics not working.
e.g.: Turrets just not following your character, debuff pairs requiring you to move before the debuff actually disappears. TEA gave me fewer issues with even higher ping.
Also Xeems spittin' facts in regards to tank mits. Really isn't a point to having so many when it's either just kitchen sink it or invuln for every damn buster.
VENOMOUS MASS
I liked p4 p1 honestly but i havent done any of the fights of the current tier so maybe its worse than some of those
SludgeHappy Yoder
Can someone name them all (for each ranking) for someone that doesn't know the images
(In order)
S-Rank: Proto-Carbuncle/P5S, Hephaistos Phase 1/P8S P1, Pandæmonium/P10S, Athena Phase 1/P12S P1
A-Rank: Phoinix/P3S, Hippokampos/P2S, Hephaistos Phase 2/P8S P2, Pallas Athena Phase 2/P12S P1
B-Rank: Kokytos/P9S
C-Rank: Erichthonios/P1S, Hesperos Phase 2/P4S P2, Hesperos Phase 1/P4S P1, Themis/P11S
F-Rank: Hegemone/P6S
WTF-Rank: Agdistis/P7S
S - Proto-Carbuncle (P5), Hephaistos (P8, Phase 1), Pandaemonium (P10), Athena (P12, Phase 1)
A - Phoinix (P3), Hippokampos (P2), Hephaistos (P8, Phase 2), Pallas Athena (P12 Phase 2)
B - Kokytos (P9)
C - Ericthonios (P1), Hesperos (P4, Phase 2), Hesperos (P4 Phase 1), Elidibus (P11)
F - Hegemone (P6)
WTF - Agdistis (P7)
I disagree with pheonix. My group spent 3 days progging that, and 3 weeks progging p4s. and I still hate p3 more. Ads are horrible, the visual clarity is horrible. If you bring an astro an entire mechanic doesn't even exist.
Tbh I'd probably enjoy p10 more but my god party finder cannot do that fight. Bond 3 groups that can't do turrets, dw3 groups that can't do bond 3, HH groups that cant do bond 3 or make the wall, "kill" groups that can't do HH. One group I had the other tank repeatedly died to HH after like 5 hits and wouldnt use their invuln. Worst prog experience I've ever had.
I'm taking a break before jumping into p11 but I really hope its not this bad
It's not. P11 is absolutely simple compared to P10. It's honestly very uninspired...quite a relaxing fight compared to 10.
P11 is way easier but PF is still moronic and will die to Dark & Light and/or Letter of the Law. I even had one group who wiped us to Dark & Light and went 'welp, at least we made it :D'. So yeah, it's similar to P10 in that the real boss is the 7 other idiots you have to work with but at least the fight isn't as stressful.
Tbh, I feel like xeno hasn't even played real pf... p7s actually had a hard dps check for real pf... ppl failed at 1 % with 0 death and melee lb! (sad but true story)
And sadly it's the same with the latest tier....
He pf'd it a ton, a lot of his popular videos on the clips/highlights channel are him pfing p7s
Wig em, boys
Hot takes w/ Xeno
I know the person who made the illegal marks on p7s, he is the raid leader of my friend's static. He ate a 10 day ban.
P7s is a boss dungeon not a savage boss
P10 is truly f'd up. Bond 3 is the hardest mechanic in the tier and reqs pf to healer lb 95% of the time. Each bond is also an attention check so pf unfriendly. The execution for many areas is unnecessarily tight and not even satisfying to perform. It was a fun fight to prog cuz the stage was unique but reclearing it is cbt
Buhh
15:51 Arthars is a fucking legend lmao
Do I need to beat P10S to do P11S? or just gear to 640?
Why you doing savage this tier? You planning on doing criterion? Whats you goal? You can skip p10s to get to p11s but why?
Yeh weird coz hes ranked the first 2 tiers before and gave way different rankings but P3S should not be an A tier as its a pure rehash of everything
P3s was peak pf performance. Shitty strats, group switching like every fucking mechanic (in PF because PF is stupid) and you could spend 11 hours in PF without getting a full group on day 3 of the tier. And if the party filled, you'd wipe because counting to eight is hard.
All in F without a doubt
P7S is legit when I just gave up on 14.
I cleared it, yea, but farming it made me question my time spent in this game.
Am I really ok with spending 9 minutes of the fight doing absolutely bumfuck nothing only to get to the only good part of the raid which is the last two minutes of the fight? Really? Fuck this kind of fight design because to me this was almost all of Pandamonium to me minus P4S and P8S.
Of course this wasn't helped by me not liking the design direction of like literally every class in the game, so if I don't enjoy the combat in its current state, and I don't enjoy the raids in their current state, and if Yoshi P keeps doubling down on this direction, then maybe 14 isn't for me anymore.
I'm sorry 9 minutes a week is really a struggle. I hope they add a fast forward button next tier 🙏
Yeah I agree. The jobs feel like a dumbed down extension of their shadowbringers counterparts so I was at least hoping the raids would make up for it but most were incredibly mid. As a melee I also really dislike the huge hitboxes as they leave no room for optimization so it really feels no different to playing a ranged. Like why do I even have a gapcloser lol. However I will say DSR was fucking amazing and has been the highlight of the expansion for me.
@@psyonicpanda Imagine wanting more than 2/10ths of a fight to be fun, how "entitled" for a fastforward button, man...
Imagine wanting to ratio me so bad that you have such low standards from a game you pay $15/mo for.
@@KyvannShrike If one fight is bad but the rest of the tier is good, who cares? You just put up with it.
@@psyonicpanda You missed an important part of the OP.
"because to me this was almost all of Pandamonium to me minus P4S and P8S."
It wasn't just one fight... it was almost every fight.
P6S and P7S are easily the worst offenders, some people say 6 is worse, some say 7 is worse, idc because they're both terrible and they are the logical conclusion to the fight design philosophy that Square Enix has had going on since Eden started. The only reason why every single fight isn't as bad is because Square Enix keeps making happy accidents with some of the fights, like P5S being an absolute banger of a well paced fight, or Pinax being the best mechanic period in all of savage this expansion.
Let's say you clear P7S week 3 and you have to go through P6S and P7S just to touch P8S? One bad fight, you can sort of forgive (shouldn't really), but two? Why subject yourself to this if SE's version of an amazing fight has been mid at best?
And if you really are gonna say "agree to disagree" on fight design, then surely you should be able to respect that maybe my subjective take on the fights and me not enjoying them compared to alex or omega or ucob means maybe I shouldn't play something I don't enjoy, instead of being a strawmanning dick in the comments.
If I don't enjoy the majority of what SE makes, then why should I farm what I don't enjoy just for the hope that they make another E4S level fight (or whatever your idea of a banger is?)
im stuck at p10s for a week
P3S is the best in this expansion!
I mean, as a PLD player, I hated having to kitchen sink in UWU because the next time I took a buster I would have... Rampart :D
I think having Bulwark to go with rampart is good and outside of that I tend to do Rampart, Bluwark, Sheltron then Sentinel and sheltron. There definitely is not a low enough amount of busters to only have to invuln or kitchen sink in most fights.
I mean look at P10S, every ultima has stack buster which I use small CDs, Honestly invuln is reserved for harrowing hell if we have to heal LB because people can't spread and stack properly. And sentinel is for the tower busters.
But then if you look at P11S you can 100% just invuln kitchen sink, heck WAR can invuln both.
P4S p2 was better than P8S p2, but P8S p1 was better than P4S p1
turrets are cool in concept but it's brought down by being in ffxiv
based opinions
I actually disagree about how good P10S is.
Not because of hiw it is as a figjt, its a famtastic fight. Ots just a terrible SECOND fight. Yiu saud it yourself, it's harder than some fourth fights. In what world is that a healthy quality for a second fight?
Using PF farm and impact when most of PF hasn't clear p11s and p12s. Lol. Also, p10s is easy and I clear it in PF week 1. Ya, body checks but it another snooze fest like p7s. It's boring free mechanics until hallow. The only reason it's hard in PF is you got a lot of animals in PF who don't respect mechanics.
I don't get the hate for shadow dog or P5S tbh
p3s doesn't deserve A for its orange aoes on orange arena crap
P10S best fight of the whole tier
was kinda offended that P11 ended up being C…personaly it was the most perfect fight I could ask for
MAYBE bit biased since my first i loves the idea of light and dark mechanics but it was just perfection
Its a really boring fight. As Xenos said, too much revolved around the partner/light party stack combined with moving in or out. It only hardly felt different from normal mode, except for right at the end with Dark & Light and Letter of the Law and even those mechanics didnt introduce anything new really. Letter of the Law is literally just a bunch of mechanics we've seen up to this point with towers thrown in the middle of it.
If it’s a boring fight then I would have been bored during it. I don’t remember being bored during it to be honest, so I can’t agree.
@@ashleybricco4107 glad someone agrees
I love 11s but I see why others don't feel the same and don't blame them. I just loooooved e11s so I'm biased and the chill music put me in a vibe lol.
❤
This raid tier as a whole is bad. the fights themselves are not bad but as a whole doing them back-to-back its bad. all the fights are pretty much the same just every dps check gets a little harder and the ad a small step to them. you can even add Golbaz extreme to it. pretty much a memory game if you're not in voice chat. remember the cast. look at the colors move with partner while dodging the cleaves and immediately move to with stack or spread. but don't forget to look at the boss because he casting his next surprise. that's floors 1-3 and Golbaz in a nut shell.
...every...every fight is supposed to be done by memory. There is no in-game voice comms, so they are meant to be done through memory or text calls.
@@Paraguai123 every fight is to be done memory is a memory game but this tier flashed a mechanic. did another mechanic then told you to remember the old mechanic. so it made the tier very boring. all of the fight felt the same.
P7S is trash tier, FFF tier. Complete joke of a raid
F p3s 😂
I think 10 is put too high, as a PF player, my goal is simply----clear and reclear in PF, as how useless the gears are in this game, the amount of time spent and will be spending on PF for reclears, is not fun. it is a torture.
oh also, 4s had one impact to the community: the 6.4 job raid buff/heal range or radius buffs are largely after this tier. which well got revealed more during 5-8
xddTree
Imagine rating Phoinix over Themis :D
One is an orange vomit watching paint dry simulator, the other one is a fast paced feast of a fight. Take your pick.
Ngl I think p10s and p3s should be below WTF tier. Horrible fights for people that are not open to having statics and have to rely in party finder. The majority of the community says p10s is a good fight, but I as a healer main that has a considerable amount of history in ultimates and savages, Fucking resent p10s with every fiber of my being. Horrible to prog, horrible to reclear, horrible to look at, fuck harrowing hell, fuck turrets, fuck role spread stacks if you're a high pinged player, fuck wings when I'm trying to break the webs on my teammates but the server ticks don't count me in them even after going through them like 3 times, fuck the boss's face, and oh my fucking god, even the soundtrack, I can't do p9s without having ptsd from my miserable time in p10s. And to think I have to do reclears and in the future log this fight to get a 99 on my astro for my sake of completion makes me want to bury my head in the sand and blink my eyes simultaneously. I even considered not paying my next sub to not prog p12s because i had to look at this stupid boss's face again just for the gear. Oh by the way, p3s was another shithole of miserable experiences with every gloryplume that was a spread, Adds phase were seemingly impossible, Elmo was garbage to execute but pf is made by apes that don't wanna have to think about manually baiting the tornados, fof was fucking insane with the pvp of killing each other with the baited mobs and even the fucking "limit cut" from the beginning of the fight was constantly being memed on, "counting is hard" afterall i guess. Ultimately, p10s brought me more misery than p3s and i played p3s 50 times more so I'm still putting p10s below it. Maybe for tanks it's a more fun experience as I do remember having a lot of fun reprogging p3s on all my tanks, by my input as a pf healer is that p10s is absolute bottom of the barrel garbage that should be removed from this game. I understand why xeems would rate p10s that high because he is playing a seemingly fun role on the fight.