I'd say that banning 29" is not a good idea. I'd say that anything should be allowed, but the tracks should not be designed for the particular wheel size so that it really is about the rider and not the wheel size.
how are you gonna do that though? make the tracks to gnarly and the 29ers will have an obvious advantage over 27.5, but mellow the track out for the 27.5 guys will mean it'll be like riding on flat ground for the guys on 29ers
Yan Doroshenko What I'm saying is, is that you're proposal is basically impossible. Whatever you do, the track is going to favour either 29 or 27.5 either way. There can't really be a middle ground
when I began riding as a kid, I didn't care about the wheel size or the materials used to make the frame. I only cared about having fun. Still having fun 30 years later. Just Ride
Yes. Have fun. When you have problem to get 26 proper tyre for dh because all of those sheeps eager to have 27,5 or 29 because they think they must have them. Herd sindrome.
I think brendog and some of the privateers put it in a very good view along with trek. It's like formula one so obviously you want to go faster and we can't have a rule against that. But in reality normal people won't get the same advantages from 29" wheels, especially if they are riding tighter/lower tracks. I think instead of making a rule against 29ers, we NEED to have more tracks that are slower and more technical! The best way to regulate wheel size and keep it competitive is not rules on wheel sizes, but instead CHANGE THE TRACKS, to have a variety of tight tracks and some fast tracks, so that each wheel size will have advantages AND disadvantages.
Auzboz Bicycle sorry i disagree. All the 27.5 bikes that the average rider are using haven't become shit over night just cos 29ers have come along. And in reality its only a few riders who can get the most out of their bikes and they'd be up the front what ever they were riding. As i said in my original post its only at the highest levels be that WC or just nationals where the best riders need to try and eek out the fractions of a second that it may become they actually need a 29er, not some weekend warrior who's just banging out the runs with his mates.
Great video, agree with keeping the tracks a bit naughty rather than just easing them out for speed. I'm 6'2 and I prefer 27.5 all day, had a go on both, different bikes sadly but just got on better with 27.5, not doing a lot of dh was a mix of everything.
A few years back i was doing biketrial on a 26". I fell in love with that wheel size. I also had dirt jump and xc bike. People stood amazed of the way i was riding them because once you learn tecnique you can ride anything. I had to leave the bikes a few years because of a back injurie. Now that i came back i cant seem to find good fun affordable bikes. I live in Argentina so avalability of components is not good but when i look for them in big mtbbike name websites i find they are not making these anymore. Cannondale used to make the chase, giant the stp, specialized the p2 and p3. I see mountain bike manufacturers are leaning further and further from the bike basics and its turning almost into motorsport. It already happened in the x games
This whole debate doesn't even matter for people who aren't racing WCs. Does a 2 second difference really matter when your going out for a casual rip on your local dh track? Unless you are trying to compete on the highest level, you don't have to worry about your bike becoming obsolete because there is such a small difference in time.
Quinn Brussel So this means that a downhill bike is a downhill bike, no matter what you'll change on it but it's all about the rider and how he or she is going to handle/drive it?
The guy saying "Everyone's concerned with how it looks for the camera" - he should realise that that's literally the main thing keeping the downhill scene alive. The fact that it's so easily televised. There's not even remotely enough riders to keep it up without it being a good show.
Some 13 years ago I dropped the seat on a 29" hardtail, rolled it down a 4X track with the flimsy wheels. Still it seemed instantly on par, (wheel)geometry wise. It sucks on really tight radius ramps though, the big wheels can just get hung up. Anything bumpy or low on grip, 29" all the way. XC I'd ride 32" if there were a viable option. I've even tried to budget such a project as a new startup.
If a bigger wheel make you faster, why not get a 30er , 32er or 50er... There's be a physical explanation about the pro and cons. Can you talk about that? Thanks.
Hmmm i dont get why they haven't gone 27.5+ instead of the 29ers. its roughly the same external diameter for the same rollover effect and they would have more stability, traction, grip... Are + sizes forbidden in DH races?
I don't think the UCI should ban 29" wheels in DH just because of the aesthetics. I know the UCI banned skin suits over aesthetics but wheel size is about technology advancement in our sport which I think should be encouraged. Companies should push to create the best bikes at whatever costs, be it wheel size or whatever.
RoostVille "Companies should push to create the best bikes at whatever costs". Then none would buy these bikes because simply they would get more expensive every year and only the pros would have these for free from their sponsored company.
I think the 29 is just another option for the riders those riders who like it use it those who don't like them don't have to use them it's that simple.
While I really appreciated the 29ers downhill, but Brendon's word just spun my mind round. I think, 27.5 is the way to go for downhill :)
7 ปีที่แล้ว +5
I say, we need a variable-sized wheel. It starts in a 24", and the faster you go, the bigger it gets, then shrinks back down at technical sections. That's the future, kids :D
I relate this to what is happening in skiing. Giant Slalom courses are getting a bit more like the Supper G courses and the Super G is now almost a downhill course. The downhills are still about flat out speed with minimal turns. DH biking used to be a bit more technical with areas of flat out speed. Now the focus on jumps and high speed sections have pushed the development of the 29 wheels. Even the rock garden sections appear to be less about line choice and more about how much the suspension can soak. Between the suspension and larger tires you are getting less focus on skill and line choice and more about who has the bigger R&D budget. They are right it is turning into F1, which is boring because they never pass each other and there is no tension in the race. I wonder if you will see more serious injuries as a result of the crashes on bigger jumps and faster courses. At that point do you cap wheel size or suspension travel to force the riders to slow a bit and put the focus back on navigating a technical course instead of speed?
I own a 29 inch bike just because I use it to travel across town. I got faster for less energy, which is the entire reason I bought it. Logically speaking, 29 IS faster than 27.5 but it's not nearly as nimble or fun to use. They should really keep the different bikes in different classes cause of their perks being so different.
so you asked what we think. i'm not trying to win any races, just to have fun. so here goes: when you're a small kid you ride 14". when you grow, you ride 20". so: 26" for short people, 27 for normal people, 29 for tall people. makes sense. I'm definitely liking how the 27 fits my body like a glove.
IF YOUR A SIX FOOTER LIKE ME WE LOVE THESE 29rs. We get a bike with the same geometry you guys have enjoyed for years. Tall riders will not gain an advantage it will allow us to to enjoy what under six footers have in the past..so the tall riders get to show where the really are!! Maybe wheel size should be no more important than frame size?
I'm 6'2 and I ride 26" and 27,5". It's the other way around! You can make any geometry you like with small wheels. It's harder to make 29'ers fit any geometry - especially on smaller frames. Frame size is definitely more important than wheel size!!! If your frame is the wrong size it will be a shit experience. If you have the perfect frame size both 26", 27.5" and 29" will be fine. I don't think we could disagree more ;-) But I do give you, that big wheels makes more esthetic/proportional looking bikes for tall people :-)
I’m 5’9 and a half and ride L size frame with 29 wheels. I haven’t ridden since I was teenager (more than 12 years ago) so I’ve never tried 27.5 but 29 feels just perfect to me.
Great insights! I'm very much interested in this info for my next mtb. I rode a 29er enduro and was pretty surprised at how fast it rolled and the sensation that you're just riding over the small stuff and chatter without much drama. Will need to run it through a rock garden to see for sure though...
26" is still the best. That always made me think that the bigger wheels are marketing gimmicks. To encourage people to upgrade. Happened all the time. The pros ride the 29" because their companies said they had to.
One important point missing here... Frame geometry can change riding characteristics, even with the same wheel size. Used to work for a custom road bike manufacturer, and slight changes in geometry can drastically change the overall riding characteristics, and individual preference makes certain geometries feel "better" than others for each individual. I like seeing the controversy in the pro ranks. If a company chooses to ride 27.5, they will spend time to dial in frame geometry and suspension settings, which ultimately means new products throughout price ranges that will make mountain biking enjoyable, regardless of wheel size. Personally, I'm a 29er guy myself. I went from 26 to 29 riding XC, and while it took some time to adjust to a different style of riding I enjoy the bigger wheels a lot more. Having also ridden a couple 27.5 bikes I think I would enjoy the wheel size but I have to admit I'm a speed junkie :)
I made a short video about the newest Huffy 29 inch MTB. It rides great on fairly flat but rough roads, and if you go over 10 miles of non stop riding, it is the best size for those long distances... really LONG distances.
5:03 Loris says that if you want to go fast with a 27.5 bike, then you will have to push it, and that the 29 bike goes faster than a 27.5 by itself. If this is true, then what's the meaning of mountain biking without pedalling?
Only way for the bike industry to survive is through evolution! I demoed a Santa Cruz Tallboy 29er for the first time a few weeks ago and you can have a lot of fun with those bikes hauling over the most chunky stuff on the trail! I'm def all for it!!
For me it's the 29. My riding style is just XC. Not much enduro or downhill. I enjoy the extra stability of the 29 on rough trails, going over roots, branches and loose rocks. So I guess it really depends on the riding style.
Progress. What would you take? A top-of-the-line bike (any discipline) from 2005 or a mid-level/expert bike (same discipline) from 2017? Almost any product from 2017 is better than the best stuff from a decade ago. It's progress. Yes it's expensive. But eventually all bikes will get better and the price will be fairly stable.
Personally, smaller rider still on 26. Also was a competitive skier and this reminds me of when skis really changed in the last 10 years due to different shapes. Top level racers have limits on how much the skis can be shaped, seems like they may want to look at that type of consistency among top riders.
@GMBN I have a 29 hardtail which is good for biking to school and XC but if I get a new full suspension I would get 27.5 '' in saying that I am a taller rider.
Great little video exploring some of the issues and providing some context on just why this is such a divisive issue- which I had generally assumed was just the online echo chamber. I hadn't even considered the privateer scene and I could imagine that this sort of change, with the high cost impact, would be a real pain in the arse and potentially demotivating. Perhaps one thing that could be considered is a rule that enforced that all bikes raced must be available in a production run - while it may not eliminate the cost divide (and let's be honest, it will always be easier for funded team members) it keeps it feeling a little more in balance. For anyone with bike envy - we join the club, I get the same when I consider I can only afford to own and store one bike, but would love that sub 10kg XC and triple clamp DH rig... let alone the same style of bike with different wheel sizes/
I have both; 29 for XC and Enduro and 27.5 for XC and Enduro, and I have learned the following: Ride on whatever weel size that puts a smile on your face !
Wheel size blah blah blah... Aaron Gwin Won Leogang 2015 without a Damn ''CHAIN''.. And finished a run on a flat Tire on the same course 2014, The tire wasn't even on the rim anymore and still finished faster than most small TEAM riders wheres the fairness in that wah wah wah people will always complain.Pros were amateurs at one point in there careers am sure they had odds stacked against them but look at them now. People who want a FAIR playing field for all who race also want #1THROPHIES for all who participate. I still ride a 26 Dh bike and its fun as hell if i want smooth tracks ill go to the BMX track.DUH
Today I pinch punctured a tyre with a tyre lever when I was trying to seat back the TR Maxxis Ardent in a hurry (which is a really bitch of a tyre to put on and off). To be honest, if you have nothing else on hand, it's better than nothing. Also, if you're running tubeless, it doesn't matter at all (unless you're really sloppy and mess up the bead).
was nice to see riders different oppinions. im a 5ft4 rider myself and the extra weight, height etc just isnt good. 27 is way big enough. not to mention the wheels look too big for the bikes and imo look stupid. if you like them and they are good for your size and ride style then cool, you should have the option to have them, but what i really dont likke is now in 2022, there is a serious lack of 27 wheeled bikes out there which really limits what bike i buy. all bikes should come with an option of 27 0r 29. but im sticking to 27.5.
I rode the kamikaze in ‘97 on an alpinestars almega XT with rim brakes and rockshox judy sl fork.. looking back , it was insanity but hell i loved it.. wanna go back and ride it on a 29” FS or even a 26” FS
did one downhill run on my 29 XC HT and never going to try it again :D ... I really don't want to die, it was so fast, burning brakes from top to bottom
The design of the courses should be done in a way which is a challenge for both wheel sets. So you get to a location and you walk the course and see where you might find or loose time. And from this you pick the size you think is best for you. But the track shouldn't be made for one size! in the same way motor sports have to choose tyres for the conditions.
I'm a tall guy, 6'2". I've rode a 27.5 bike and enjoyed it. Bought a 29er bike and it feels way more comfortable to me. So I'm going to say it's just progression of the sport
Depends if you want a lighter mondraker summon or a heavyweight 16kg 29inch frame lol I know there is a 29inch down hill bike HSPI 1 costs as much as a mondraker summon
Just bought a 29er xc bike today and it feels so strange being higher up. I still have 26 bike but I agree there should be rules to the wheel size or it's gonna push for taller riders. I would rather see guys struggle on rougher bouncy surfaces than have to watch a 29er hardly use the suspension.
Pro Racing and amateur racing are two different games. I see such a mix in my area. I ride 27.5, but I see SO MANY guys (and gals) on 26 having just as much fun. I liked the rally and formula 1 analogy that one guy mentioned. Having just been in the market for a new bike a few months ago I felt tremendous pressure not to pick the fastest bike but to pick what bike the industry will support in the long term. I ended up going 27.5 hopefully the bike companies aren't involved in planned obsolescence like the mobile phone companies are.
I'm not opposed to new technology and making bikes better. But, in this case, as well as disc bakes on road bikes, it really seems like a trend being pushed by the manufactures to sell us something that we really don't need.
The roll of the pros is to push the limits of the technology so we can see what works best. What they race on is not what the average enthusiast is going to be on, and ultimately all of the advantages now will make the way down to price points that we all benefit from. I do see the wheel size debate really being an issue of rider height as we move forward. Bigger riders already have a huge advantage over shorter riders in the area of weight and leverage. Giving them an advantage of wheel size will change the sport. I am a shorter rider, and did fairly well against my taller friends, however, they always had a downhill advantage. In XC that advantage went away and I carried much less weight going uphill. This is what we could see the sport evolve into, short guys race XC, and tall guys race downhill.
I rode a 29er and had a lot of fun going down a steep technical track but I had a lot more fun going down on a 27.5+ bike. I did not get any times to see which was faster but the 27 was definitely more fun
My look on it: You know it's funny how we went from "26 is the king, 27,5 and 29 are just scam", over "26 is still cool, 27,5 is awesome, 29 is too slow", all the way to "29 is fastest, should we ban it?". I mean just a few years ago, people were swearing that 29 would suck for downhill and now the actual riders are debating whether the advantage 29ers have over the smaller wheels makes their use unfair. The guy in the video has a point - you may feel slower on the 29er, but actual time says a different thing. There's a good reason why the XC crowd was so quick to cater to the 29ers. They just made for better all-round bikes, allowing fast and snappy acceleration and handling, while seriously improving the bikes terrain clearing capabilities. That's also why a lot of XC races are getting gnarlier. Modern XC bikes (even hardtails) can venture into AM territories, if the rider and the tyres are up for the task. I don't mean it in a bad way. One could argue that we should have had these sizes from the very beginning, but hey. Past is the past. At one point, nobody was sure whether this "mountain biking thing" wasn't just a flashy trend that would soon be forgotten. And 26" just felt default... very few people even thought about it.
I bought a 29er because I'm 6'2 and everything else felt small. Of course, I'm not trying to compete on a professional level so I can't see why it's a problem. I love mine so far.
I have a 29er commencal supreme. Only had it for two months but my impression is its faster on tracks with less turning, with big straight runs. My 27.5 is more manoeuverable on tighter twistier tracks and is more fun and playful.
i tried a trek uel ex 8 with 29er wheels and it seemed to roll over everything too easily. I think to make it challenging for the pros they need to stick with 27.5 inch wheels
Personally I think 29ers are brilliant, mountain biking is about going fast and being faster than everyone else when your racing and a 29er is helping people go faster, if its proven that 29ers are faster the people riding 27.5 will so realise how much better it is to have that bigger wheel but at the end of day you just need to have fun doing what you love.
While it's all very well looking to adopt one size throughout a 29" wheel as we've seen here isn't favoured by all. It should be up to the rider to choose what they want to run and ride with it
Great to see the riders concerned for the galloping prices of new bikes and all we're told we got to have. When bought mine I had to have Codes. It had Trp's and man I couldn't be more happy 🙏
I’d say if your height allows it, only then try 29er otherwise stick to 27.5 or 26 if you like to do bmx kinda tricks. I went from 27.5 to 29 and I’m 5’11” bike feels fast and I have better confidence going over big rocks, but not easy to pop like I use to do on 27.5
Surely it's the track that will determine which tyre size is best? Make a super technical, steep and twisty track and 29" wheels won't have the same advantage.
Since you asked: I think that naturally the sport will progress with or without the nay sayers. There are 2 variables that can make things fair as progress is made. Track design can dictate how a team tunes their bike. Maybe it'll be a 2 bike game and the cost of entry will increase. If you call yourself formula 1 and expect there to not be a price tag attached to that, well...... another factor is governing body. If 29ers are faster and make the tracks easier maybe they will be in a separated classification. This also rids the complaints of smaller riders and opens the doors for technical 26 riders. Just some thoughts....
+EdgeOfSanity it's not consumption. it's the free market. if it's a good idea that sells well then it's a good product. if it doesn't sell then it's a bad idea. simple.
+Auzboz Bicycle everything evolves. humans can be generally split into 2 groups, those that accept change and those that don't. ying and yang classic human duality.
The best option is for UCI is to collect statistics for the next 12 months and standardise the wheel size for Pro and Elite riders using the sample size as per average Athlete height and final speed+time... = Different wheel size = different categories and they should not mix up wheel sizes on the same category to be fair to everyone...
26" are highly recommended for having fun, weeding in and out and for speed with tracks more less strait less demanding 29er so 27.5 is a good middle ground but 26 still can't be beet for street fun shame that the industry is trying to make the mtb a road bike hybrid we just don't need it 27.5 is big enough 29er ok if you are a tall person that a 29er would be ideal but for the average rider they should be 26 and 27.5
I currently ride a a 29'r XC bike, but...my next bike will be more of an enduro bike, and I'm really leaning toward a 27.5. I'm a bit over 6' tall, and my old 26 mtb feels a bit better than my 29'r does, maybe I'm going backwards.????? lol
I'd say that banning 29" is not a good idea. I'd say that anything should be allowed, but the tracks should not be designed for the particular wheel size so that it really is about the rider and not the wheel size.
how are you gonna do that though? make the tracks to gnarly and the 29ers will have an obvious advantage over 27.5, but mellow the track out for the 27.5 guys will mean it'll be like riding on flat ground for the guys on 29ers
Make tracks interesting. And let the wheel size be the problem of the rider.
If they make new rules, should there be different divisions for all wheel sizes?
Yan Doroshenko What I'm saying is, is that you're proposal is basically impossible. Whatever you do, the track is going to favour either 29 or 27.5 either way. There can't really be a middle ground
Louis Glendining do they make they tracks while considering wheel size anyway?
2020: 37.5 vs 40
Egger not exactly 😂😂😂😂😂
Egger 2019 answering.
Still the same debate
Aged well
2020: 29er vs covid19er :(
2020: Corona vs humans.
when I began riding as a kid, I didn't care about the wheel size or the materials used to make the frame. I only cared about having fun. Still having fun 30 years later. Just Ride
Yes. Have fun. When you have problem to get 26 proper tyre for dh because all of those sheeps eager to have 27,5 or 29 because they think they must have them. Herd sindrome.
The thing I most like about 29ers is that it makes users of 26 ones look like they are on a bike from their childhood..
I think brendog and some of the privateers put it in a very good view along with trek. It's like formula one so obviously you want to go faster and we can't have a rule against that. But in reality normal people won't get the same advantages from 29" wheels, especially if they are riding tighter/lower tracks. I think instead of making a rule against 29ers, we NEED to have more tracks that are slower and more technical! The best way to regulate wheel size and keep it competitive is not rules on wheel sizes, but instead CHANGE THE TRACKS, to have a variety of tight tracks and some fast tracks, so that each wheel size will have advantages AND disadvantages.
NIce point!
Very good point!
Brendon is right. Leave 29er for XC.
Nobody has to buy or ride a 29er. Until you get to elite level its more about the rider than what sized wheels your riding.
Auzboz Bicycle sorry i disagree. All the 27.5 bikes that the average rider are using haven't become shit over night just cos 29ers have come along. And in reality its only a few riders who can get the most out of their bikes and they'd be up the front what ever they were riding. As i said in my original post its only at the highest levels be that WC or just nationals where the best riders need to try and eek out the fractions of a second that it may become they actually need a 29er, not some weekend warrior who's just banging out the runs with his mates.
+Auzboz Bicycle no they aren't. I've got a 26, 27.5 and a 29 and they are all great fun. horses for courses
steveetienne I'm guessing the 29ers a xc bike
+Auzboz Bicycle yeah it is a hard tail xc. great fun and fast as hell
Great video, agree with keeping the tracks a bit naughty rather than just easing them out for speed. I'm 6'2 and I prefer 27.5 all day, had a go on both, different bikes sadly but just got on better with 27.5, not doing a lot of dh was a mix of everything.
Its fun watching this in 2019 when 29" has become pretty much the default.
Henrik Sommerland haha true. I’m 4 10 so I’m left on 26 junior wheels 😂
29" sucks.
just bought a new xc bike. I'm sticking to 27.5 ;)
I'm currently on a 29er and I'm about to buy 27.5
Just ordered my trek remedy which is 27.5 inch
I like 26" bikes because I can fit them in the trunk of my Honda.
A few years back i was doing biketrial on a 26". I fell in love with that wheel size. I also had dirt jump and xc bike. People stood amazed of the way i was riding them because once you learn tecnique you can ride anything. I had to leave the bikes a few years because of a back injurie. Now that i came back i cant seem to find good fun affordable bikes. I live in Argentina so avalability of components is not good but when i look for them in big mtbbike name websites i find they are not making these anymore. Cannondale used to make the chase, giant the stp, specialized the p2 and p3. I see mountain bike manufacturers are leaning further and further from the bike basics and its turning almost into motorsport. It already happened in the x games
Just ride your bikes
Harry Patrickson Well said...
True
years ago people said that 29' on DH was impossible or ridiculus that 26' was the best for DH, now.......... things change
This whole debate doesn't even matter for people who aren't racing WCs. Does a 2 second difference really matter when your going out for a casual rip on your local dh track? Unless you are trying to compete on the highest level, you don't have to worry about your bike becoming obsolete because there is such a small difference in time.
Quinn Brussel So this means that a downhill bike is a downhill bike, no matter what you'll change on it but it's all about the rider and how he or she is going to handle/drive it?
27.5" all the way
Globe Vidz yessss
Fuck off.
grebo121 🤣😂😂
grebo121 triggered?
grebo121 why don’t u fuck off
#26AintDead
yes it is
+BlackDiamond Of course it isn't dead. There are always children.
they definitely not dead plus they are stronger then the 29 in terms of staying tru
NO 26", NO SALE.
More tyres are made and stocked in 26" than any other size......... So dead they aint.....
The guy saying "Everyone's concerned with how it looks for the camera" - he should realise that that's literally the main thing keeping the downhill scene alive. The fact that it's so easily televised. There's not even remotely enough riders to keep it up without it being a good show.
32" wheels will replace it anyway
Kawaspresso damn right
Penny Fart Thing ftw!
two big. 27.5+ is just a smooth deceptively, faster ride. I think its the future.
far too big go a wheel
@@jacobfarrugia9866 In the future we'll be sitting in between the wheels instead of on top of them
26" dirty peasants club here.
Me 2. Just built up a new 26", lol
Same hear, just building up a retro 1999 gt idrive into more of a enduro, sod paying 3+k when I can build a 26er for about a grand
If you're on a budget used 26ers are selling for a pittance nowadays.
26 are the elite.
NO 26", NO SALE.
Some 13 years ago I dropped the seat on a 29" hardtail, rolled it down a 4X track with the flimsy wheels. Still it seemed instantly on par, (wheel)geometry wise. It sucks on really tight radius ramps though, the big wheels can just get hung up.
Anything bumpy or low on grip, 29" all the way.
XC I'd ride 32" if there were a viable option. I've even tried to budget such a project as a new startup.
26 for me! Can't afford a 29er bike!
Love that you guys talked to the privateers! I'd enjoy seeing more exposure for the little guys on the channel.
28.25" is perfect. Best of both worlds.
That's what 27.5 is with 26 and 29.
26
If a bigger wheel make you faster, why not get a 30er , 32er or 50er... There's be a physical explanation about the pro and cons. Can you talk about that? Thanks.
Whats about 30,5" they are rolling smoother than 29"
Most in depth video on the wheel debate so far, good job
Hmmm i dont get why they haven't gone 27.5+ instead of the 29ers. its roughly the same external diameter for the same rollover effect and they would have more stability, traction, grip... Are + sizes forbidden in DH races?
I don't think the UCI should ban 29" wheels in DH just because of the aesthetics. I know the UCI banned skin suits over aesthetics but wheel size is about technology advancement in our sport which I think should be encouraged. Companies should push to create the best bikes at whatever costs, be it wheel size or whatever.
RoostVille "Companies should push to create the best bikes at whatever costs". Then none would buy these bikes because simply they would get more expensive every year and only the pros would have these for free from their sponsored company.
29ers are ancient. 36ers are the future!
Reymon Reyes XD
One guy i know on the world circuit went from 29 to 27.5 this year after a year riding a 29er
I think the 29 is just another option for the riders those riders who like it use it those who don't like them don't have to use them it's that simple.
Very well said
Right. Why complain about iPhones and how much you hate them and the people that use them, when you bought a Samsung? Use what you like and shaddup!
While I really appreciated the 29ers downhill, but Brendon's word just spun my mind round. I think, 27.5 is the way to go for downhill :)
I say, we need a variable-sized wheel. It starts in a 24", and the faster you go, the bigger it gets, then shrinks back down at technical sections. That's the future, kids :D
György Mohl 😂😂😂 hella funny
LOL!
I relate this to what is happening in skiing. Giant Slalom courses are getting a bit more like the Supper G courses and the Super G is now almost a downhill course. The downhills are still about flat out speed with minimal turns.
DH biking used to be a bit more technical with areas of flat out speed. Now the focus on jumps and high speed sections have pushed the development of the 29 wheels. Even the rock garden sections appear to be less about line choice and more about how much the suspension can soak. Between the suspension and larger tires you are getting less focus on skill and line choice and more about who has the bigger R&D budget. They are right it is turning into F1, which is boring because they never pass each other and there is no tension in the race.
I wonder if you will see more serious injuries as a result of the crashes on bigger jumps and faster courses. At that point do you cap wheel size or suspension travel to force the riders to slow a bit and put the focus back on navigating a technical course instead of speed?
I own a 29 inch bike just because I use it to travel across town. I got faster for less energy, which is the entire reason I bought it. Logically speaking, 29 IS faster than 27.5 but it's not nearly as nimble or fun to use. They should really keep the different bikes in different classes cause of their perks being so different.
1:54....who is this guy? He's the most in touch person.
so you asked what we think. i'm not trying to win any races, just to have fun. so here goes: when you're a small kid you ride 14". when you grow, you ride 20". so: 26" for short people, 27 for normal people, 29 for tall people. makes sense. I'm definitely liking how the 27 fits my body like a glove.
Buffalo Theory I agree with you
Why study for finals when you can watch this.
IF YOUR A SIX FOOTER LIKE ME WE LOVE THESE 29rs.
We get a bike with the same geometry you guys have enjoyed for years.
Tall riders will not gain an advantage it will allow us to to enjoy what under six footers have in the past..so the tall riders get to show where the really are!!
Maybe wheel size should be no more important than frame size?
I'm 6'2 and I ride 26" and 27,5". It's the other way around! You can make any geometry you like with small wheels. It's harder to make 29'ers fit any geometry - especially on smaller frames.
Frame size is definitely more important than wheel size!!! If your frame is the wrong size it will be a shit experience. If you have the perfect frame size both 26", 27.5" and 29" will be fine.
I don't think we could disagree more ;-) But I do give you, that big wheels makes more esthetic/proportional looking bikes for tall people :-)
Lol im 5"8 I ride a 29r
BOSS X ASSASS1N [SFAS] same, anything smaller feels wrong even on an XL frame
I’m 5’9 and a half and ride L size frame with 29 wheels. I haven’t ridden since I was teenager (more than 12 years ago) so I’ve never tried 27.5 but 29 feels just perfect to me.
6' not really considered tall. I'm 6' and just got my first 27.5 and it seems huge to me!
Great insights! I'm very much interested in this info for my next mtb. I rode a 29er enduro and was pretty surprised at how fast it rolled and the sensation that you're just riding over the small stuff and chatter without much drama. Will need to run it through a rock garden to see for sure though...
You should make a poll in the dirtshed show 27,5 or 29 for DH
26" is still the best. That always made me think that the bigger wheels are marketing gimmicks. To encourage people to upgrade. Happened all the time. The pros ride the 29" because their companies said they had to.
One important point missing here... Frame geometry can change riding characteristics, even with the same wheel size. Used to work for a custom road bike manufacturer, and slight changes in geometry can drastically change the overall riding characteristics, and individual preference makes certain geometries feel "better" than others for each individual.
I like seeing the controversy in the pro ranks. If a company chooses to ride 27.5, they will spend time to dial in frame geometry and suspension settings, which ultimately means new products throughout price ranges that will make mountain biking enjoyable, regardless of wheel size.
Personally, I'm a 29er guy myself. I went from 26 to 29 riding XC, and while it took some time to adjust to a different style of riding I enjoy the bigger wheels a lot more. Having also ridden a couple 27.5 bikes I think I would enjoy the wheel size but I have to admit I'm a speed junkie :)
I made a short video about the newest Huffy 29 inch MTB. It rides great on fairly flat but rough roads, and if you go over 10 miles of non stop riding, it is the best size for those long distances... really LONG distances.
I agree but if youre looking for playfull bike I go for the 26 or 275.
5:03 Loris says that if you want to go fast with a 27.5 bike, then you will have to push it, and that the 29 bike goes faster than a 27.5 by itself. If this is true, then what's the meaning of mountain biking without pedalling?
DH bikes dont need pedalling because they are made for downs.
If you suck on your bike it Doesn't matter if your on a 26, 27.5 or 29er. you ride whatever is comfortable to u and that's what you'll be happy on.
Only way for the bike industry to survive is through evolution! I demoed a Santa Cruz Tallboy 29er for the first time a few weeks ago and you can have a lot of fun with those bikes hauling over the most chunky stuff on the trail! I'm def all for it!!
27.5 for life
This was really cool to listen to. Some interesting points of view. Thanks!
For me it's the 29. My riding style is just XC. Not much enduro or downhill. I enjoy the extra stability of the 29 on rough trails, going over roots, branches and loose rocks. So I guess it really depends on the riding style.
Great video Martin, good to hear some honest opinions rather than the usual "everything is awesome" party line.
Progress. What would you take? A top-of-the-line bike (any discipline) from 2005 or a mid-level/expert bike (same discipline) from 2017? Almost any product from 2017 is better than the best stuff from a decade ago. It's progress. Yes it's expensive. But eventually all bikes will get better and the price will be fairly stable.
Thanks so much for talking to the privateer guys! As one our voice counts also!
I'm still rocking 26" on my DH bike and have no issues keeping up with my buddys!
Personally, smaller rider still on 26. Also was a competitive skier and this reminds me of when skis really changed in the last 10 years due to different shapes. Top level racers have limits on how much the skis can be shaped, seems like they may want to look at that type of consistency among top riders.
@GMBN I have a 29 hardtail which is good for biking to school and XC but if I get a new full suspension I would get 27.5 '' in saying that I am a taller rider.
All I know is that I have a YT Jeffsy 29 and it goes like a rocket up and down hill and I love it. Just go with what feels right for you!
Great little video exploring some of the issues and providing some context on just why this is such a divisive issue- which I had generally assumed was just the online echo chamber. I hadn't even considered the privateer scene and I could imagine that this sort of change, with the high cost impact, would be a real pain in the arse and potentially demotivating. Perhaps one thing that could be considered is a rule that enforced that all bikes raced must be available in a production run - while it may not eliminate the cost divide (and let's be honest, it will always be easier for funded team members) it keeps it feeling a little more in balance. For anyone with bike envy - we join the club, I get the same when I consider I can only afford to own and store one bike, but would love that sub 10kg XC and triple clamp DH rig... let alone the same style of bike with different wheel sizes/
I have both; 29 for XC and Enduro and 27.5 for XC and Enduro, and I have learned the following: Ride on whatever weel size that puts a smile on your face !
27.5 is the best
Get off my lawn - and hand me my 1st place trophy you little wheel guy.
Wheel size blah blah blah... Aaron Gwin Won Leogang 2015 without a Damn ''CHAIN''.. And finished a run on a flat Tire on the same course 2014, The tire wasn't even on the rim anymore and still finished faster than most small TEAM riders wheres the fairness in that wah wah wah people will always complain.Pros were amateurs at one point in there careers am sure they had odds stacked against them but look at them now. People who want a FAIR playing field for all who race also want #1THROPHIES for all who participate. I still ride a 26 Dh bike and its fun as hell if i want smooth tracks ill go to the BMX track.DUH
5:45 omg there is a guy in the back ground using a screw driver to put on a tire
Today I pinch punctured a tyre with a tyre lever when I was trying to seat back the TR Maxxis Ardent in a hurry (which is a really bitch of a tyre to put on and off).
To be honest, if you have nothing else on hand, it's better than nothing. Also, if you're running tubeless, it doesn't matter at all (unless you're really sloppy and mess up the bead).
was nice to see riders different oppinions. im a 5ft4 rider myself and the extra weight, height etc just isnt good. 27 is way big enough. not to mention the wheels look too big for the bikes and imo look stupid. if you like them and they are good for your size and ride style then cool, you should have the option to have them, but what i really dont likke is now in 2022, there is a serious lack of 27 wheeled bikes out there which really limits what bike i buy. all bikes should come with an option of 27 0r 29. but im sticking to 27.5.
Everybody wanting to keep it 26" should get rid of their disc brakes and go back to cantilever brakes like a real man.
Tell it to MTB street guys, look ma no brakes LOL
I rode the kamikaze in ‘97 on an alpinestars almega XT with rim brakes and rockshox judy sl fork.. looking back , it was insanity but hell i loved it.. wanna go back and ride it on a 29” FS or even a 26” FS
i rode 26" since childhood last year i got 29" it was so much faster but i felt like i lost swiftness and confidence on bigger wheels
That pashley tv shirt! Just at the end..... gold
Individual classes for the different wheel sizes would be interesting.
@Brendanfairclough spot on mate
did one downhill run on my 29 XC HT and never going to try it again :D ... I really don't want to die, it was so fast, burning brakes from top to bottom
Enjoyed this video - thanks!
The design of the courses should be done in a way which is a challenge for both wheel sets.
So you get to a location and you walk the course and see where you might find or loose time. And from this you pick the size you think is best for you.
But the track shouldn't be made for one size! in the same way motor sports have to choose tyres for the conditions.
I'm a tall guy, 6'2". I've rode a 27.5 bike and enjoyed it. Bought a 29er bike and it feels way more comfortable to me. So I'm going to say it's just progression of the sport
Depends if you want a lighter mondraker summon or a heavyweight 16kg 29inch frame lol I know there is a 29inch down hill bike HSPI 1 costs as much as a mondraker summon
Just bought a 29er xc bike today and it feels so strange being higher up. I still have 26 bike but I agree there should be rules to the wheel size or it's gonna push for taller riders. I would rather see guys struggle on rougher bouncy surfaces than have to watch a 29er hardly use the suspension.
Pro Racing and amateur racing are two different games. I see such a mix in my area. I ride 27.5, but I see SO MANY guys (and gals) on 26 having just as much fun. I liked the rally and formula 1 analogy that one guy mentioned. Having just been in the market for a new bike a few months ago I felt tremendous pressure not to pick the fastest bike but to pick what bike the industry will support in the long term. I ended up going 27.5 hopefully the bike companies aren't involved in planned obsolescence like the mobile phone companies are.
I really like hearing how some of the pros are concerned about the recreational riders when it comes to the costs of DH 29ers
I'm not opposed to new technology and making bikes better. But, in this case, as well as disc bakes on road bikes, it really seems like a trend being pushed by the manufactures to sell us something that we really don't need.
seems to me the question is more about how the tracks are designed, higher speed or tighter.
Well 29er in DH is kinda make sense cuz it easier to roll over obstacles, just train more on handling/corner sections
The roll of the pros is to push the limits of the technology so we can see what works best. What they race on is not what the average enthusiast is going to be on, and ultimately all of the advantages now will make the way down to price points that we all benefit from. I do see the wheel size debate really being an issue of rider height as we move forward. Bigger riders already have a huge advantage over shorter riders in the area of weight and leverage. Giving them an advantage of wheel size will change the sport. I am a shorter rider, and did fairly well against my taller friends, however, they always had a downhill advantage. In XC that advantage went away and I carried much less weight going uphill. This is what we could see the sport evolve into, short guys race XC, and tall guys race downhill.
I rode a 29er and had a lot of fun going down a steep technical track but I had a lot more fun going down on a 27.5+ bike. I did not get any times to see which was faster but the 27 was definitely more fun
nice job getting different perspectives.
really good video lads
My look on it: You know it's funny how we went from "26 is the king, 27,5 and 29 are just scam", over "26 is still cool, 27,5 is awesome, 29 is too slow", all the way to "29 is fastest, should we ban it?". I mean just a few years ago, people were swearing that 29 would suck for downhill and now the actual riders are debating whether the advantage 29ers have over the smaller wheels makes their use unfair. The guy in the video has a point - you may feel slower on the 29er, but actual time says a different thing.
There's a good reason why the XC crowd was so quick to cater to the 29ers. They just made for better all-round bikes, allowing fast and snappy acceleration and handling, while seriously improving the bikes terrain clearing capabilities. That's also why a lot of XC races are getting gnarlier. Modern XC bikes (even hardtails) can venture into AM territories, if the rider and the tyres are up for the task.
I don't mean it in a bad way. One could argue that we should have had these sizes from the very beginning, but hey. Past is the past. At one point, nobody was sure whether this "mountain biking thing" wasn't just a flashy trend that would soon be forgotten. And 26" just felt default... very few people even thought about it.
I bought a 29er because I'm 6'2 and everything else felt small. Of course, I'm not trying to compete on a professional level so I can't see why it's a problem. I love mine so far.
I think the comparison to Rally/F1 with restrictions is something to think about, is it always about speed?
I have a 29er commencal supreme. Only had it for two months but my impression is its faster on tracks with less turning, with big straight runs.
My 27.5 is more manoeuverable on tighter twistier tracks and is more fun and playful.
i tried a trek uel ex 8 with 29er wheels and it seemed to roll over everything too easily. I think to make it challenging for the pros they need to stick with 27.5 inch wheels
I have been 26 inch rider for about 20 years, Just purchased a 29er S-works enduro. I enjoy it, but it's just not as challenging as the 26er!
Personally I think 29ers are brilliant, mountain biking is about going fast and being faster than everyone else when your racing and a 29er is helping people go faster, if its proven that 29ers are faster the people riding 27.5 will so realise how much better it is to have that bigger wheel but at the end of day you just need to have fun doing what you love.
While it's all very well looking to adopt one size throughout a 29" wheel as we've seen here isn't favoured by all. It should be up to the rider to choose what they want to run and ride with it
Long live GMBN, you f*ckin rock dudes
1:30, that guy is my hero! He broked down the hype with techs and marketing in 15 seconds. This is so true!!!
Great to see the riders concerned for the galloping prices of new bikes and all we're told we got to have. When bought mine I had to have Codes. It had Trp's and man I couldn't be more happy 🙏
I’d say if your height allows it, only then try 29er otherwise stick to 27.5 or 26 if you like to do bmx kinda tricks. I went from 27.5 to 29 and I’m 5’11” bike feels fast and I have better confidence going over big rocks, but not easy to pop like I use to do on 27.5
Surely it's the track that will determine which tyre size is best? Make a super technical, steep and twisty track and 29" wheels won't have the same advantage.
Since you asked: I think that naturally the sport will progress with or without the nay sayers. There are 2 variables that can make things fair as progress is made. Track design can dictate how a team tunes their bike. Maybe it'll be a 2 bike game and the cost of entry will increase. If you call yourself formula 1 and expect there to not be a price tag attached to that, well...... another factor is governing body. If 29ers are faster and make the tracks easier maybe they will be in a separated classification. This also rids the complaints of smaller riders and opens the doors for technical 26 riders. Just some thoughts....
do you think we may see 30" wheels in the near future?
+EdgeOfSanity it's not consumption. it's the free market. if it's a good idea that sells well then it's a good product. if it doesn't sell then it's a bad idea. simple.
Simao W yep. probably even 40. they've already ruined the sport with 29ers they might as well destroy it
+Auzboz Bicycle everything evolves. humans can be generally split into 2 groups, those that accept change and those that don't. ying and yang classic human duality.
And evolution has led to us polluting our planet and causing global warming which may become the death of the planet
It'll be 29+ first
The best option is for UCI is to collect statistics for the next 12 months and standardise the wheel size for Pro and Elite riders using the sample size as per average Athlete height and final speed+time... = Different wheel size = different categories and they should not mix up wheel sizes on the same category to be fair to everyone...
26" are highly recommended for having fun, weeding in and out and for speed with tracks more less strait less demanding 29er so 27.5 is a good middle ground but 26 still can't be beet for street fun shame that the industry is trying to make the mtb a road bike hybrid we just don't need it 27.5 is big enough 29er ok if you are a tall person that a 29er would be ideal but for the average rider they should be 26 and 27.5
I currently ride a a 29'r XC bike, but...my next bike will be more of an enduro bike, and I'm really leaning toward a 27.5. I'm a bit over 6' tall, and my old 26 mtb feels a bit better than my 29'r does, maybe I'm going backwards.????? lol