Excellent review. You are one of the few people that takes the time to articulate your thoughts and walk us through your thought processes. In a world full of jump-cuts, your channel is refreshing. Keep up the excellent work!
It's always nice to see some positive feedback, I really appreciate it. There are a lot of Internet experts out there who tend to try and argue with me lately.
Excellent video and review Luke! So glad I found this old video. Appreciate your time, effort and teachings sir. I love this channel!! Cheers from Motown. Home of Detroit Muscle!
I had me cousin bore my 351 c block and he called and said the block is no good. When i got to his shop after work he showed me inside the bore you could see the perfect out line of what looked like a roofing nail inside the wall. I guess when they were melting the steel they didnt wait till it got hot enough to melt that friggin nail so off i was to find another block!
thats a sucky situation there, but definitely makes for a cool story. a block can always be sleeved, but that makes for an expensive repair at 100 per cylinder typically
Nice work! After seeing your review ans analysis I pulled the trigger on a SBC short block for my Wellcraft Nova II. Will sleep a little better tonight.
You might consider a micro sleeve for the rear main seal area on the crank. As you pointed out, that portion of the crank looks a bit rough. I put one on my 302. It's an easy and affective addition.
Bear in mind... several designs of torque wrenches are fine to go in reverse- with a caveat. The shock-load of breaking a tight fastener free can damage the mechansim. Digital, "click", torque beam... shock loads are not their friends. Also, for micrometer "click" type, store them at minimum torque setting to aid in maintaining accuracy. Their spring can relax if stored at setting.
Good info. I will give everyone real world facts about mabbco motors. I purchased a 302 for our endurance race car with the mabbco hot rod cam. We installed a windage tray, standard volume oil pump and a road race oil pan. Edlebrock carb and air gap intake with a stock 85 H.O. Distributor and water pump. The motor is a 60 over just like you see here with GT40p heads and stock rockers.We have over 100 hours of full racing at 6k rpm. We do have an oil cooler and Griffin radiator. 180 degree thermostat. We pulled the motor and checked the bearings. There were still fantastic looking so we did not replace them. Looked at the cylinders and still had cross hatch. We did get the moly rings. Do not be afraid of purchasing this motor. We flog the hell out of our 302 and it just does not show any signs of ware. Heat removal and good oiling is important. We also have the Ford racing 50 balancer and 50 ounce racing fly wheel. We did replace the rear main with a quality unit. That is the only thing we replaced because we are racing the motor. So..... I purchased a 351 roller motor and built a motor for this season. I will let you know how that goes. Many BMW owners were beaten by this refurbished 302.
that is great to hear! thanks for the info. i think a lot of folks failures are attributed to bad air fuel mixture, and improper cooling system fill/overheating.
I'm thinking of getting a mid 90's 5.8/351 Roller motor and hot cam, GT40 head package from them (Not trying to get max HP like AFR heads produce - and 8 MPG. I'm looking for just 350-400 hp AND decent MPG in a street car 69 Fastback). So did you pick up one? Experience? HP? MPG?
I bought one shortblock from these guys, trying to save time and some money. Ended up costing me way more. After i got my 400m shortblock, i checked a few things like bearing clearance etc. Worst job of machining ever. Paid for moly rings, got cast. Took the engine to my local machine shop and redid everything. Run forest run!!
good video, great to see a smart young guy who knows what he's doing will be interesting to hear about the sonic test results, keep your fingers crossed
On account of having to pull the cam bearings freeze plugs block plugs and all that good stuff and after its at the shop they boil it again ..... I think I'm going to try and run it and really put mabbco to the test. I will definitely be documenting this engine for the first 5k miles
Excellent video, I'm very interested in engine rebuilding. I have very little experience but lots of ability (mechanically inclined) I live 100 yards from the largest junkyard in my state so there's that.... oh and I have winters off and a large heated garage with a mill and 2 lathes (hobby machinist) Your vids are very inspiring, thank you for that
@@BillyTpower @ThunderHead289 I love both these engines, I prefer my 350, but wouldn't wanna do without either one. I'm also just staring out but both those blocks were fun to work on and I really really love my 289, but they're not as common. Whatever you can get your hand on though n get cheep parts for it is going to be a good learning experience n stick with thunderbird and any others that break down the art of mechanics with fine we'll defined info. Every mec has there own tricks n tips and so will you after you've got the basics down you'll be able to start concentrating on other aspects and use ur knowledge for different theory's and improvements. The more people you can find like thunder bird will greatly increase your basic knowledge though and bring u up that ladder of knowledge faster.
Was not impressed with my vortec 350 I bought from them. Bad wrist pin on #4, metal debris in the oil channels. Their warranty process is a headache and in the end they simply just tell you to go away. Should have noticed something was amiss when I popped in to buy the short block and a local delearship rep was in their lobby screaming at them for refusing to honor their warranty on a block they had MABBCO work on. Some people get lucky, some don't. Next time I'll pay a little more for a better shop.
LLJKotaru they did me the same way bought a motor from them and it had different heads on it Olds 350 7A head and it had a number 8 head on it then when I kept calling and they keep putting me on hold and when they finally pick the phone up and then when I finally talk to them they was like fill out a warranty they know they put the wrong heads on it basically they was like f*** you it been 4 months still not resolved the problem oh hell maybe it was a mistake by them but they act like they didn't give a f*** first and last time I will ever buy anything from them bad business the saddest part about it they tried to tell me the heads was compatible I like what the fuc guess they thought I was stupid
Poor craftmanship, even worse "customer service". Austin hung up on me after I reported my problem. I did get the "have a good day, sir"... All quality issues are handled by email. Forget talking to someone.
I wouldn't install my rod caps without using a stretch guage for the bolts. WAY more accurate and reliable than just torquing them. Especially if you dont use the correct lubricant on the threads and bolts.
Dude seriously thank you so much for this review I've been on eBay looking for a cheap short block for my f150 and was considering MABBCO now im second guessing it
I think they could work, but there is some questionable stuff there. Could be better, but not bad for mass reproduction. I'd definitely look it over good before you install it. Don't do what I did, it's basically voiding the warranty, but I wanted to get an honest review out there
What up Luke, all the bad reviews for Mabbco make me nervous but I’d really like a crate 390 for my 68 f-350. Where would you say the best place to get a crate engine is??
@@snookassassin82 I would not recommend Mabbco. They just sent me a motor with lifter bores almost 1/8" out of spec. Unusable. Now I'm screwed. Timeline is shot and will have to pay shipping back. Read their "limited liability" warranty. It's not for the customer, it's for Mabbco to hide behind.
Interesting. I've got a long block on my shopping list and after watching this, I'm reconsidering. The Motor Trend nerds seem to prefer Blueprint motors for their Engine Master series and their prices look decent.
I once tore down an old 351w that had been remanned and it had 4 rods stamped #2. I think it had been a reman short block because the heads were for a 1984 which is what the truck is and the block was for a 75 or so pickup.
Can't see what difference it would make as long as the rods were properly sized. If these old SBFs were hard to keep together, they wouldn't have been as popular. I'd personally like to make a video of putting one together without a torque wrench and see if it knocked.
david roberson it didn’t make a difference. It’s still running after I threw some rods, rings, and fresh heads on it. It was just interesting. I bet that they probably just pulled loads of them apart and reused whatever they could at the place that overhauled it.
Most people don't realize if you leave your torque wrench set and never calibrate it that it is way off most likely. I don't use my good torque wrench on anything like tires. I have a cheap junk one for that. Nobody has ever used it but me.
you can't judge by that. I would say your old torque wrench is not as on the money as their digital units that get calibrated regulary. let's just be fair before turning people against them.
Do your homework, the digital ones go out of spec much Quicker than the click offs - FACT. Please look it up before you take a shot at me. And actually I gave them a good review if you watched the whole thing.
I was thinking about ordering a marine long block Chevy from them. There's so much good & bad out there as far as "reviews" go regarding mabbco. can't tell what's what. looks like they sell a decent product for the price. wish someone would tear down a long block to check their headwork. maybe I'll do it. anyways thanks for this video!
since those bolts appear to be over torqued, I wouldnt use em, myself and maybe go with a stud kit for the mains and heads, depends on cost, having a main cap crack or get loose will wreck the crank, over torqued bolts distorts the block at 60 over, just my two cents.
It appears that they are using pneumatic tools during assembly. That's definitely not surprising coming from a place with just a 90 day/ 4000 mile limited warranty that doesn't cover shipping or any labor including their labor when inspecting a return. I made the mistake of buying a 428 FE short block for $2599 + shipping from them. What I received was a unbelievably overbored 352/360 or 390 standard fe block that had cylinder walls with varying thickness. None of them were thick enough to prevent overheating or pressure side fracturing of the cylinder walls. I received it and immediately noticed it was neither a " A " scratch or " C " scratch block, indicating it was a 352/360 or 390 block that had been overbored beyond anything even remotely safe as far as reliability or longevity. I immediately contacted them and they completely denied it was anything other than a factory cast 428 fe block. I had to pay for the return and they still refused to accept it and give me a refund. And I never got the short lock back after the attempted return. And they insist that it was the shipping service that lost it attempting to ship it back to me. I've not received my refund, return of the short block and I'm also out the return shipping cost on top of the initial purchase price. They've not shown any proof of it being shipped back to me after they refused the refund. And now I'm out over $3k completely. Had I known them what I know now I never bought a damn thing from them . They are thieves and liars nothing else
Do you have any recommendations on a company to get a short block 302 roller? Im looking but everything I find is either way too over priced or the reasonably priced ones have horrible reviews for the company or engines.
You just have to take it all in stride when it comes to reviews - most people expect a good product, so they don’t jump out of their seat to write a good review - but you better believe people do to write a bad one. Finally after all of this time, I’m getting to where I’m about to fire up this engine build with the shortblock in this video. I’d say that most people’s issues are of their own design, but like I did in this video, it never hurts to pull things down and verify their work - ie piston rings facing the right way, torque, bearing clearances, and so on 👍 The big thing for me is that you dodge the machine shop wait time for the short block folks. Mabbco seems to of did just fine honestly
@@ThunderHead289, Thanks for the reply. I read a lot of reviews on Mabbco and it seems to be pretty consistent on the bad reviews from person to person. With that said I am looking at the Blueprint Engines 306 short block they have. I got a email back from them they call it a short block plus as it comes with cam and lifters but the photo also shows a mustang oil pan and a timing cover and a 50oz balancer. Never got a email back on what it comes with based off the photo and if I can have some of those items removed as I have a truck so the mustang pan is useless for me. I have a new melling oil pickup so their pan setup with pickup is useless for me as well. I also have a new timing cover which makes it useless to me along with the timing set. Plus I am also looking at running a Crane truck cam which I think will give me better performance than the standard cam. Aside from that I am just trying to plan on the cylinder heads. I am looking at AFR Renegade 165`s for this build as it is in a truck so I will benefit more from low and mid range power. The valve springs is where I am getting a bit concerned as Crane has two different springs recommended, they have a recommended spring and lock kit which is a beehive spring then they have just a spring kit which is a dual spring and they have different spring rate as well as different open and closed pressures. AFR has a close match but the closed seat pressure is higher than either of the crane recommended springs but the AFR one is very close to the beehive one as far as open pressure goes. Intake is 1lb more and exhaust is an exact match to the crane spec. Aside from that roller lifters and push rods are my next concern. I could go with crane lifters but they are $226 for a set and Ford Performance has a set of roller lifters for just $120. Need to dig and see what kind of performance difference is between the two. The cam I am looking at is 1,400 - 5,400 rpm range with a 6,000 redline. Doubt my truck with transmission mods and axle swap will ever see over 5,000 rpm in passing gear. So I like to think the Ford Racing roller lifters would be adequate for it but then I don't know with the spring pressure and the aggressive nature of this Crane truck cam. So far I have collected all my parts over the last year but I am getting anxious to get back in my old truck as it was my daily driver.
I fast forwarded to the main caps and i wanted let Thunder head know before he becomes Blunder Head any engine bored to .60 over should have an extra 30-40 foot pounds of torque due to the expansion than can be generated by the engine itself with the thinner walls. At least that is what is what us old time circle track guys did. Perhaps when these folks talk to the staff about their orders and the staff a MABBCO hears hot rod or race car they do that sort of shit. I will personally always go 20 pounds over a recommended torque setting and never had any problems and then again way way too tight is no good either on the mains. 20 was usually the limit but I know old timers that said 30-40. The mains are nothing to fool with if it feels to tight it is too tight. The engine should generally spin with little to no resistance. It seems maybe the tolerance is off too boot. He has to rip that puppy down and look deeper at what he has.
The only thing that makes me nervous about the block is if they bored it to 60 with a motor plate and headbolts. Id be worried if the piston hples are still round.
we will find out in early spring im assuming - im putting it together currently and going to put it in something. kind of a test mule deal - hopefully she holds together!
Thinking about getting a 302 from them for a 65 mustang… How did the engine do? I live about an hour away so I figured I’d save a little on shipping, and if it came down to it, wouldn’t have to ship it back if something went wrong. Hoping you read comments on videos from 5 years ago 😂
Very informative Sir. But is your Torque wrench Calibrated? I have one of the Mabbco motors in our race car and not a wimper. 6500 rpm road racing. We did not touch it.
In order to ensure proper torque, ARP makes their own lube for their own fasteners. This is because different lubes may lead to different torque values.
This is old news but you're just torquing the main caps to over spec. It's pretty easy to tell when you didn't get a click on 90 so you went until it did. That's not an accurate measurement of how they were, that's you torquing them.....
sorry but your not gonna get 70 ft lb torqued mins to actually move as breaking torque , ie the amount it takes to break the main bolt face move against the main cap. I am certified Master machinist and I would at most marked the bolts broke them loose the retired them. Also did you check to see if they used aftermarket fasteners which call for higher torque spec. breaking torque can be 15-20 higher than spec. You have no idea what your checking or how to check it properly. AND if you have an high end torque wrench it CAN torque counterclockwise but you must actually buy appropriate tool. If you had uses new/calibrated beam wrench to break them loose and watching breaking torque. Now you buy an engine they spin test it on machine to make sure it's makes cylinder pressure and oil pressure and has no leaks in critical areas. You also have no clue what a reconditioned rod will look like.
Look man, I don't care who you are. The torque wrench will click off at torque. If I set it to 65, it breaks at 65, they were supposed to be 70 to 75. Not breaking at even 95 is ridiculous and obviously over torqued. Recondition rod, shot permed to relieve stresses, ground for balance, line honed, I know the shpeal. Do you work for mabbco? Because I actually forgot to mention the cam that has lifter wear on it that was in my engine. So consider yourself lucky I left that out for mabbco's sake.
And if you listen, I never said you can or can't torque counterclockwise. But I did warn against haphazardly using your torque wrench which is a precision instrument as a breaker bar. Which should be common sense. If you choose to argue that, then well, that pretty much speaks for itself.
+MonzaRacer ??? Comp cam is 280 or so and new lifters are 135 (roller) ford units through summit. another good reason I went me own route with the cam. You get why you pay for for sure. Definitely glad I tore it down and put it back together correctly. Rear main seal would have leaked awful without the sleeve that I put on it. As I said in the video For 1000 bucks shipped I am not complaining.
Monzaracer is correct. If you torque a fastener to 70ft/lbs in one smooth motion as you should, the torque that it takes to start that fastener moving again will be considerably higher.
I have a honest question because i honestly dont know ..if a i am not supposed to loosen up bolts with my torque wrench because it will mess up my torque wrench then what do i use to torque down bolts with a left hand thread ????
A modern digital torque wrench is typically fine to tighten fasteners in reverse. Not a good idea to use a click type. OR if you trust your eyes, and a bit of talent, find a "beam type" torque wrench. That's how it's been done on left handed fasteners since the dawn of time.
@@ThunderHead289 Appreciate the reply. I wanna put a fresh 350 Buick in my daily driver (66 chevy pickup) and I don't wanna wait forever and a day for the machine shop to eventually think about boring a block.
How many CC were the valve reliefs on those pistons? are those the flat top piston option they have? will probably order a 351w short block when its time. Lots of metallic glitter come out in the oil in my truck, always has since I bought it. Yet it always sounds good and oil pressure has never dropped. Go figure.
More than likely you'd have to ask but these 4 valve relief pistons cant take much more than stock sized valves. I know because ive asked whoever makes the pistons wether its kb or speed pro. If you can, get 2 vakve relief pistons
@@KingJT80 I sent Mabbco an email asking what their $150 flat top piston special is and they said silvolite pistons, for a 351W. The bad thing about 4 valve relief pistons are the CC of the 4 big reliefs are just about the same as the stock dished pistons are. So, you're pretty much just throwing $150 away with that option! the $300 option for a 351w the pistons are KB151's, those are $300 but worth buying.
@@MattsRageFitGarage yeah if you plan on running anything other than a stock head with the mabco budge rebuild, get the better pistons Me I think I'm just going to have my block crank and rods looked at in my 302 and have a local shop build the short block if the price is right If its all good, I'm going dss e series budget forged flat top pistons afr cast 185 enforcer heads the matching intake with a mild crane retro roller cam and a summit 600 cfm vac secondary I wanna buy a nice stroker or 351 from CREB engineering on EBay but we'll see how things go later this year. Read good things about them
Well if you don't want a .060 over block and want a micro polish and oil chamfer on the crank oil holes, not .020 or .030 rod journals and better rods. Why didn't you do your own building?? Would have been the same amount of time invested. Also you wouldn't have them Chinese pistons. Besides this in a Galaxie? I have seen your Galaxie, got one just like it. Should have put a big block in it. LOL I am just saying, if you want a certain quality, build it yourself!!! I am a builder and have worked in performance shops, when you order from a remanufacture that is what you get. However good video, thanks.
You can see on my channel page that I usually do build them myself - this was for fun to see what the cheapest priced short block gets you. Ironically there’s a blower sitting on that engine now and a TKO500 behind it. Holds up surprisingly well, but you best believe I keep that thing dang cool. Any temp creep and it’s baby footing it
very good video. Currently I am looking at getting a long block 302 from Mabbco for my 88 ford ranger. It has already had the engine swap done, but my current engine has died on me. I was curious about the options that they have for their engines, and if they are actually pretty reliable. If i can get further information please in contact with me ASAP before ordering from their company.
you'd do better if you'd use a torque wrench for left handed threads for checking torque on pre-assembled blocks like those. over torquing cause the bolts to stretch and other bad things to happen.
I haven't yet, but from having it tore down, and putting it back together, I won't have any problems. Try to get a block that's not 60 over if you can help it.
I picked up a 302 1980 and was tearing it apart. The rods on the crank from front to rear were numbered #1 #5 #2 #6 #3 #7#4#8 Is this correct? Neverr pulled one of these apart before. The FE engines are numbered 1-8 in numerical order not cylinder order. Thanks
spray some oil down in the cylinders and turn it over by hand several times. if its in a car, before you go to start it, you need to prime the oiling system, then turn the engine over without spark plugs in it for awhile. from that point, as long as you have overworked the carb and ignition, it will start without the engine being damaged.
It's perfectly safe, uf anyone thinks that .030 or .020 is gonna make a difference your high.... get your micromiter out and see just how big .030 is and tell me you honestly thing that much material is gonna change anything
Do you realize bolts are not just bolts? Factory torque specs might be thrown out the window based off the specs of the new bolt manufacture. For example if you run ARP rod bolts ,that bolt may never stretch to the point it needs to to hold tension and not loosen at a factory number. Pro engine builders torque to stretch for rod bolts or stud and nut. I'm not sure how one would do that in regards to the main cap bolts though.
These are remanufactured motors? Correct? I could understand if this was supposed to be a blueprinted and balanced motor for all ur criticism.But that torque wrench looks good for a rebuild in the driveway,but I'd venture to say it's probably off a cpl of ft.lbs.Also was wondering if u knew what fasteners they used to build ur motor,I know u can get bolts that have a slightly higher torque specs. Maybe it's just me but I don't think the mains were over torqued they just were on the high side of spec.these guys use expensive building tools, it's what they do,not just on the weekends. Thanks for the video.
A few things here - they overtorque them then line bore them because the threads are already old/have been stretched a time or two. My torque wrench may be “affrordable” at 120 bucks, but it’s not off by 20. Everything was 351w spec, so it really makes a guy wonder. If you check out my recent uploads, I went ahead and built this engine, and am putting it in my galaxie. I switched it to main studs which are supposed to have the higher torque, and torqued them as such. Going to be firing it up this month
Thank you for the good video. All the engine re manufacturers I visited in So Cal area were horrible so I ended building a motor myself. I wish Mabbco would have a video tour of their facility but for what they charge, I guess you can't ask for too much. When you reassembled, did you use plastigauge?
That first piston and rod assembly you weighed looked awfully fishy to me... look at the connecting rod by the wrist pin it’s discolored so that tells me it got hot as sh*t
That’s normal, they are interference pins - the machine shop heats the rod up to expand it and in goes the wrist pin. That’s just a typical piece of the small block ford design. That appearance on the connecting rods is normal
+Warren Joseph it would be in the ten to one range. There are many factors, head gasket thickness, the overbore your block is. ... Your camshaft duration ...
There is absolutely NO WAY to determine how much torque was applied to a fastener with a(when was it calibrated) click type torque wrench. Also just ASSuming that they will move, and that YOU will notice is terribly naive. Being a mechanical engineer. . .and have done torque studies on threaded fasteners for a living, I can tell you that this is wildly innacurate.
I've got a 85 carbed 351w with cam and some work I bought for 500$ with a c6(but I'm selling it and I have a 4speed. it's going in a 73 Mustang conv. I've heard early and 90s blocks are the best, but some 80s truck engines are very good. does anything make my engine special? it is gonna be NA for a while and I may go turbo in the future.
The best thing about some 1980s 351W is that they had provisions for roller cams right from the factory. Even if the engine shipped with flat lifters, some engines were machined so that you could buy 1. A hold down spider 2. a set of anti-rotation things that go around the lifters 3. a set of OE replacement roller lifters that are far less expensive than tie bar lifters. EDIT 4. an OE style hydraulic roller cam that costs much less than a retrofit style hydraulic roller cam. However, I don't know which years were built like that. I'm just sharing the general information that I know.
I bought a Oldsmobile 350 engine long block and it had Mitch Match heads on it number 8 head on passenger side and 7A on the driver side and then when I call them they said it was compatible bulshit
ThunderHead289, I recently bought a MABBCO crate 3VZE, which I had a local dealer install. It failed within 5 months, when returned to MABBCO to seek warranty, they claim that the engine was overheated. This has voided the warranty, do you have any advice? How do I know if it actually was overheated? I think I am being scammed.
Yikes! 😬😬😬 + .060"??? That's too much for any Ford small block. Some of the professional 5.0l racers won't even go to + .040"! Those who have done, say it's the biggest reason these blocks get really weak above 500hp. Please keep us posted on the health of this engine.
Your torquing techniques are suspect. Why bother to "over torque" your bolts if you're just going to take it apart to have that block inspected anyway.
@@ThunderHead289 at 80ft lbs it was already over. Why push to 90..? 60-70 is norm. At that point you risked the harm you mentioned being over torqued...
Okay it was 20 pounds over and if Mr. Thunder Head does talk to an old school circle track guy that is a norm in my world 20 ftlbs over is it the max setting. That can wear out a set of cheapo non ferrous bearings. I use Harlan Sharps components if I rebuild a what I call a booger engine ( A BOOGER IS ANY ENGINE OVER 40 OVER WE CALL EM BOOGER ENGINES) but not everyone has the wallet for the stuff I buy. You need the right components when you fuck with engines over a .20 over bore I will say that.
+THEKING SILVERADO you know who I am right? And torque doesn’t do anything other than hold the cap on. Too tight and you deform the main cap. Unless the block itself is getting way hotter, thermal expansion on the mentioned components would be the same.
+THEKING SILVERADO ah, I might be seeing what you are saying now - the walls are thinner and don’t dissipate heat- block itself has the potential to get hotter. Need more torque to account for thermal expansion or you could get lift. That somewhat makes sense. Can see how you could lose your thread stretch of the block “grows” a little.
Yes sir I was just trying to give ya the upside of it kind being suttle like. I always had my circle track engines bored to max so did everyone else. Most drivers did and the Thermal expansion as you recognize it is the truth of the entire matter. It seems you got one of the better remans from MABBCO the reason I tripped over your video I am considering one of their engines for one of my truck rescue projects. Yes the old timers knew their stuff and have a bible of do's and don'ts... My father and grand father ran SPEED CITY in Allentown Pa. for many years now I run the other end of it here in the Pocono's. You will be okay running the engine just avoid days when the mean temps are above 104 degrees... And you can run a coolant additive to bring the internal temp down. There are several on the market just make sure ya git some if it's a summer time machine... You can add an additive brings the engine core temp down 20-30 degrees... I used it in the race car because some nights it stayed almost 100 degrees especially Bristol and Rockingham and Tempe' point speedway... Your sweat would sweat...
Thunder head I know little of you if anything but you have some videos like I do it's all conjecture and us... I hope ya kept those caps tightened up and I hope the motor rolled over okay it did seem a bit stiff but ya didn't dump oil on the bearings like i do when I open a cap I will put cam lube on the bottom bearings and oil. It helps if it is a mistaken hot start like some crew member forgets to fill the radiator up right... As i said ya got some decent videos and you and I feel our way thru some lost tech at times... Let me know how that motor works out for ya.. I am interested if there is another vid point me at it... I care... You do a good presentation... And listen to us old fucks and fuds we know some things okay... call my shop if you want okay no arm twisting, i want ya to win races.
I bought a rebuilt 454 bbc short block from mabbco & 1 of the pistons at tdc sat cocked high about .040 towards the rear.Obviously a bent rod that passed their "quality control" .I will not buy from them again.
The $ 64,000 Question...Did MABBCO know when they sold you the short block, you have a TH-cam channel, and/or that you would be publishing a review of the MABBCO product? Or were they BLIND to this fact? Thanks. I really enjoyed the video and like you, I would be a bit concerned about the .060 overbore and the minor deficiencies, on the crankshaft. However, your MABBCO short block, clearly represents a LOT of engine, for the money!
I was a very small channel then and didn’t mention it - wasn’t pleased about the overtorque or the .060 over as others I have talked to have engines that didn’t have to go that far, but I gues s it’s just the luck of the draw
@@ThunderHead289 Thank you for the reply! Machining is SO expensive in CA., Mabbco is a bargain IF you get a good unit. I am considering a build using a Mabbco Chevy 350 L98 87-95 1-piece R-Main, roller-block and a Enginequest heads. Anyone tried this combo? Again, I enjoy your channel! Subscribed/Liked
I've actually found that to be quite the internet myth. I thought the same originally. Now .060 over is definitely risky though, more so for a thin wall - no arguement there
Always take the thinnest shit OIL that is in your shop even if is is air tool or compressor oil when rolling a motor over most of it is no more than cheapo crappy vegetable oil in some circumstances people will PAY 8 bucks for 4oz of veggie oil at lowes... Lube the cylinder walls coat the bottom cap bearings with cam lube or PRELUBE the Chinese their shit now days and it's worthless it has no ZINC in it... Always coat your cylinder walls with some kind of oil even if it is cheap shit. Never let any engine sit on your stand over a week without being oiled up and covered in plastic... Humidity can dog chew the mains and the bores.. So if ya have to work the whole the week coat it and cover it up in plastic air tight... You would be surprised what Southern Humidity can do to an engine...
Literally to see if they made anything decent - but if you look at my channel quick, I reassembled the engine and have it in something to be fired up this year. Bypassing waiting on the machine shop is a nice positive to all of this though - plus I doesn’t hurt to check the work done on a short block
breaking torque is not tightening torque........this guy knows just enough to think he knows what he's doing. I owned a shop and have been doing this for 45+ years.
Young man, I'm 54 and a Ford guy born and bread and you constantly impress me. Keep up the great work and the awesome videos.
That means a ton to me, I really appreciate it!
Excellent review. You are one of the few people that takes the time to
articulate your thoughts and walk us through your thought processes. In a
world full of jump-cuts, your channel is refreshing.
Keep up the excellent work!
It's always nice to see some positive feedback, I really appreciate it. There are a lot of Internet experts out there who tend to try and argue with me lately.
Thanks for taking the time to make videos like this. I’m considering a rebuilt long block. This video helps a lot.
Excellent video and review Luke! So glad I found this old video. Appreciate your time, effort and teachings sir. I love this channel!! Cheers from Motown. Home of Detroit Muscle!
I had me cousin bore my 351 c block and he called and said the block is no good. When i got to his shop after work he showed me inside the bore you could see the perfect out line of what looked like a roofing nail inside the wall. I guess when they were melting the steel they didnt wait till it got hot enough to melt that friggin nail so off i was to find another block!
thats a sucky situation there, but definitely makes for a cool story. a block can always be sleeved, but that makes for an expensive repair at 100 per cylinder typically
I'm have a engine 351c 4 b completely to my f100 68 short strong muster motor
I was thinking about using Mabbco for a 390 build. Thank You Luke for this video.
Did you end up doing it?
Nice work! After seeing your review ans analysis I pulled the trigger on a SBC short block for my Wellcraft Nova II. Will sleep a little better tonight.
You might consider a micro sleeve for the rear main seal area on the crank. As you pointed out, that portion of the crank looks a bit rough. I put one on my 302. It's an easy and affective addition.
That is good advice that I should definitely look into. It's a manual car as well, so I could do without a rear main seal leak.
+ThunderHead289 If you decide to add a micro sleeve, let me know, and I'll send you the installation driver on loan anytime.
Bear in mind... several designs of torque wrenches are fine to go in reverse- with a caveat. The shock-load of breaking a tight fastener free can damage the mechansim. Digital, "click", torque beam... shock loads are not their friends.
Also, for micrometer "click" type, store them at minimum torque setting to aid in maintaining accuracy. Their spring can relax if stored at setting.
Good info. I will give everyone real world facts about mabbco motors. I purchased a 302 for our endurance race car with the mabbco hot rod cam. We installed a windage tray, standard volume oil pump and a road race oil pan. Edlebrock carb and air gap intake with a stock 85 H.O. Distributor and water pump. The motor is a 60 over just like you see here with GT40p heads and stock rockers.We have over 100 hours of full racing at 6k rpm. We do have an oil cooler and Griffin radiator. 180 degree thermostat. We pulled the motor and checked the bearings. There were still fantastic looking so we did not replace them. Looked at the cylinders and still had cross hatch. We did get the moly rings.
Do not be afraid of purchasing this motor. We flog the hell out of our 302 and it just does not show any signs of ware. Heat removal and good oiling is important. We also have the Ford racing 50 balancer and 50 ounce racing fly wheel. We did replace the rear main with a quality unit. That is the only thing we replaced because we are racing the motor. So..... I purchased a 351 roller motor and built a motor for this season. I will let you know how that goes. Many BMW owners were beaten by this refurbished 302.
that is great to hear! thanks for the info. i think a lot of folks failures are attributed to bad air fuel mixture, and improper cooling system fill/overheating.
I'm thinking of getting a mid 90's 5.8/351 Roller motor and hot cam, GT40 head package from them (Not trying to get max HP like AFR heads produce - and 8 MPG. I'm looking for just 350-400 hp AND decent MPG in a street car 69 Fastback). So did you pick up one? Experience? HP? MPG?
So how did that season go with that refurb 302?
I bought one shortblock from these guys, trying to save time and some money. Ended up costing me way more. After i got my 400m shortblock, i checked a few things like bearing clearance etc. Worst job of machining ever. Paid for moly rings, got cast. Took the engine to my local machine shop and redid everything. Run forest run!!
good video, great to see a smart young guy who knows what he's doing
will be interesting to hear about the sonic test results, keep your fingers crossed
On account of having to pull the cam bearings freeze plugs block plugs and all that good stuff and after its at the shop they boil it again ..... I think I'm going to try and run it and really put mabbco to the test. I will definitely be documenting this engine for the first 5k miles
4000 mile, 90 days i do believe.
Excellent video, I'm very interested in engine rebuilding. I have very little experience but lots of ability (mechanically inclined) I live 100 yards from the largest junkyard in my state so there's that.... oh and I have winters off and a large heated garage with a mill and 2 lathes (hobby machinist)
Your vids are very inspiring, thank you for that
Well, pull up a chair and kick back. This is Thunderhead289 - I am very engine tech heavy. I highly recommend my valvetrain video playlist.
@@ThunderHead289 What engine is a good one to start? (ease of parts, cost of parts, and popular to make it easy to sell)
Billy T the two most common engines and cheapest to rebuild are the ford 302 and the Chevy 350 👍
Great engines to start with
@@BillyTpower @ThunderHead289 I love both these engines, I prefer my 350, but wouldn't wanna do without either one. I'm also just staring out but both those blocks were fun to work on and I really really love my 289, but they're not as common. Whatever you can get your hand on though n get cheep parts for it is going to be a good learning experience n stick with thunderbird and any others that break down the art of mechanics with fine we'll defined info. Every mec has there own tricks n tips and so will you after you've got the basics down you'll be able to start concentrating on other aspects and use ur knowledge for different theory's and improvements. The more people you can find like thunder bird will greatly increase your basic knowledge though and bring u up that ladder of knowledge faster.
Was not impressed with my vortec 350 I bought from them. Bad wrist pin on #4, metal debris in the oil channels. Their warranty process is a headache and in the end they simply just tell you to go away. Should have noticed something was amiss when I popped in to buy the short block and a local delearship rep was in their lobby screaming at them for refusing to honor their warranty on a block they had MABBCO work on. Some people get lucky, some don't. Next time I'll pay a little more for a better shop.
LLJKotaru they did me the same way bought a motor from them and it had different heads on it Olds 350 7A head and it had a number 8 head on it then when I kept calling and they keep putting me on hold and when they finally pick the phone up and then when I finally talk to them they was like fill out a warranty they know they put the wrong heads on it basically they was like f*** you it been 4 months still not resolved the problem oh hell maybe it was a mistake by them but they act like they didn't give a f*** first and last time I will ever buy anything from them bad business the saddest part about it they tried to tell me the heads was compatible I like what the fuc guess they thought I was stupid
Poor craftmanship, even worse "customer service". Austin hung up on me after I reported my problem. I did get the "have a good day, sir"... All quality issues are handled by email. Forget talking to someone.
Cant beat this for the price. Less than $1000 for a 302 delivered. You don't even have to wash your hands or go anywhere. No brainer
Good video. I would recommend looking into a class from snap on for torque certification.
A good digital torque wrench will get you pretty far these days.
I wouldn't install my rod caps without using a stretch guage for the bolts. WAY more accurate and reliable than just torquing them. Especially if you dont use the correct lubricant on the threads and bolts.
I would think Luke with go with all new ARP bolts and do the correct thing, he usually does not cut corners.
Dude seriously thank you so much for this review I've been on eBay looking for a cheap short block for my f150 and was considering MABBCO now im second guessing it
I think they could work, but there is some questionable stuff there. Could be better, but not bad for mass reproduction. I'd definitely look it over good before you install it. Don't do what I did, it's basically voiding the warranty, but I wanted to get an honest review out there
Thank you for the video. It looks like there is a chip in the cam sprocket of the timing set, at 2:06
What up Luke, all the bad reviews for Mabbco make me nervous but I’d really like a crate 390 for my 68 f-350. Where would you say the best place to get a crate engine is??
Im in the same boat.
@@snookassassin82 I would not recommend Mabbco. They just sent me a motor with lifter bores almost 1/8" out of spec. Unusable. Now I'm screwed. Timeline is shot and will have to pay shipping back. Read their "limited liability" warranty. It's not for the customer, it's for Mabbco to hide behind.
@@nealkelly3845 thanks for the heads up. I found a guy in ft Walton beach Fl that builds Fe motors. Wolverine engines the guys name is brad.
Interesting. I've got a long block on my shopping list and after watching this, I'm reconsidering. The Motor Trend nerds seem to prefer Blueprint motors for their Engine Master series and their prices look decent.
Anytime I do stroker stuff, I get a blueprint. But for 800 or whatever shipped to my door, the mabbco works for driver stuff alright
very cool tear down inspection on this company offering.
Thanks, figured I'd give them an honest shot where it could be seen on camera
Great video. Definitely a have to see video for Ford engine gearheads
I once tore down an old 351w that had been remanned and it had 4 rods stamped #2. I think it had been a reman short block because the heads were for a 1984 which is what the truck is and the block was for a 75 or so pickup.
Can't see what difference it would make as long as the rods were properly sized. If these old SBFs were hard to keep together, they wouldn't have been as popular.
I'd personally like to make a video of putting one together without a torque wrench and see if it knocked.
david roberson it didn’t make a difference. It’s still running after I threw some rods, rings, and fresh heads on it. It was just interesting. I bet that they probably just pulled loads of them apart and reused whatever they could at the place that overhauled it.
Would love an update on this engine
Has a weiand 174 supercharger on it currently.
How many miles since the install?@@ThunderHead289
I'd have just blown the engine apart to inspect it, reassemble and torque per spec. I will be buying an engine despite the bad reviews
That’s exactly what I ended up doing
Any update on this engine after 5 years? Are you still running it?
Still going - has a weiand 174 supercharger on it also
@@ThunderHead289 awesome. Thanks.
@@ThunderHead289 how much rwhp?
Jeez that is why I’ll build my own engine
so how aaccurate is your tourqe wrench? you don't mention if yours is calibrated or not. And if it is, how did you calibrate it?
Most people don't realize if you leave your torque wrench set and never calibrate it that it is way off most likely. I don't use my good torque wrench on anything like tires. I have a cheap junk one for that. Nobody has ever used it but me.
He did good!!
I’m gonna gamble. Thanks for the video
@GatorDrummer so far it’s good definitely 60 over though and a leaky rear main seal. Ugh.
you can't judge by that. I would say your old torque wrench is not as on the money as their digital units that get calibrated regulary. let's just be fair before turning people against them.
Do your homework, the digital ones go out of spec much Quicker than the click offs - FACT. Please look it up before you take a shot at me. And actually I gave them a good review if you watched the whole thing.
Theres a pic of them using a rattle gun on the main caps on the ebay page for these shortblocks
You don't leave too far from me wow didn't know you were that close
I was thinking about ordering a marine long block Chevy from them. There's so much good & bad out there as far as "reviews" go regarding mabbco. can't tell what's what. looks like they sell a decent product for the price. wish someone would tear down a long block to check their headwork. maybe I'll do it. anyways thanks for this video!
I see this is 4 yrs old but what was your bearing clearances if you hapoen remember?
since those bolts appear to be over torqued, I wouldnt use em, myself and maybe go with a stud kit for the mains and heads, depends on cost, having a main cap crack or get loose will wreck the crank, over torqued bolts distorts the block at 60 over, just my two cents.
Agree 1000% Tom.
It appears that they are using pneumatic tools during assembly. That's definitely not surprising coming from a place with just a 90 day/ 4000 mile limited warranty that doesn't cover shipping or any labor including their labor when inspecting a return. I made the mistake of buying a 428 FE short block for $2599 + shipping from them. What I received was a unbelievably overbored 352/360 or 390 standard fe block that had cylinder walls with varying thickness. None of them were thick enough to prevent overheating or pressure side fracturing of the cylinder walls. I received it and immediately noticed it was neither a " A " scratch or " C " scratch block, indicating it was a 352/360 or 390 block that had been overbored beyond anything even remotely safe as far as reliability or longevity. I immediately contacted them and they completely denied it was anything other than a factory cast 428 fe block. I had to pay for the return and they still refused to accept it and give me a refund. And I never got the short lock back after the attempted return. And they insist that it was the shipping service that lost it attempting to ship it back to me. I've not received my refund, return of the short block and I'm also out the return shipping cost on top of the initial purchase price. They've not shown any proof of it being shipped back to me after they refused the refund. And now I'm out over $3k completely. Had I known them what I know now I never bought a damn thing from them . They are thieves and liars nothing else
thanks for the review, I've been looking into getting one of these for a while
Do you have any recommendations on a company to get a short block 302 roller? Im looking but everything I find is either way too over priced or the reasonably priced ones have horrible reviews for the company or engines.
You just have to take it all in stride when it comes to reviews - most people expect a good product, so they don’t jump out of their seat to write a good review - but you better believe people do to write a bad one.
Finally after all of this time, I’m getting to where I’m about to fire up this engine build with the shortblock in this video.
I’d say that most people’s issues are of their own design, but like I did in this video, it never hurts to pull things down and verify their work - ie piston rings facing the right way, torque, bearing clearances, and so on 👍
The big thing for me is that you dodge the machine shop wait time for the short block folks.
Mabbco seems to of did just fine honestly
@@ThunderHead289, Thanks for the reply. I read a lot of reviews on Mabbco and it seems to be pretty consistent on the bad reviews from person to person.
With that said I am looking at the Blueprint Engines 306 short block they have. I got a email back from them they call it a short block plus as it comes with cam and lifters but the photo also shows a mustang oil pan and a timing cover and a 50oz balancer. Never got a email back on what it comes with based off the photo and if I can have some of those items removed as I have a truck so the mustang pan is useless for me. I have a new melling oil pickup so their pan setup with pickup is useless for me as well. I also have a new timing cover which makes it useless to me along with the timing set. Plus I am also looking at running a Crane truck cam which I think will give me better performance than the standard cam.
Aside from that I am just trying to plan on the cylinder heads. I am looking at AFR Renegade 165`s for this build as it is in a truck so I will benefit more from low and mid range power. The valve springs is where I am getting a bit concerned as Crane has two different springs recommended, they have a recommended spring and lock kit which is a beehive spring then they have just a spring kit which is a dual spring and they have different spring rate as well as different open and closed pressures. AFR has a close match but the closed seat pressure is higher than either of the crane recommended springs but the AFR one is very close to the beehive one as far as open pressure goes. Intake is 1lb more and exhaust is an exact match to the crane spec.
Aside from that roller lifters and push rods are my next concern. I could go with crane lifters but they are $226 for a set and Ford Performance has a set of roller lifters for just $120. Need to dig and see what kind of performance difference is between the two.
The cam I am looking at is 1,400 - 5,400 rpm range with a 6,000 redline. Doubt my truck with transmission mods and axle swap will ever see over 5,000 rpm in passing gear. So I like to think the Ford Racing roller lifters would be adequate for it but then I don't know with the spring pressure and the aggressive nature of this Crane truck cam.
So far I have collected all my parts over the last year but I am getting anxious to get back in my old truck as it was my daily driver.
I fast forwarded to the main caps and i wanted let Thunder head know before he becomes Blunder Head any engine bored to .60 over should have an extra 30-40 foot pounds of torque due to the expansion than can be generated by the engine itself with the thinner walls. At least that is what is what us old time circle track guys did. Perhaps when these folks talk to the staff about their orders and the staff a MABBCO hears hot rod or race car they do that sort of shit. I will personally always go 20 pounds over a recommended torque setting and never had any problems and then again way way too tight is no good either on the mains. 20 was usually the limit but I know old timers that said 30-40. The mains are nothing to fool with if it feels to tight it is too tight. The engine should generally spin with little to no resistance. It seems maybe the tolerance is off too boot. He has to rip that puppy down and look deeper at what he has.
The only thing that makes me nervous about the block is if they bored it to 60 with a motor plate and headbolts. Id be worried if the piston hples are still round.
we will find out in early spring im assuming - im putting it together currently and going to put it in something. kind of a test mule deal - hopefully she holds together!
Did you put the new cam on the MABBCO cam bearings or replace those too? Looking at their 351W short block and putting Skip White heads on it.
Thinking about getting a 302 from them for a 65 mustang… How did the engine do? I live about an hour away so I figured I’d save a little on shipping, and if it came down to it, wouldn’t have to ship it back if something went wrong. Hoping you read comments on videos from 5 years ago 😂
Very informative Sir. But is your Torque wrench Calibrated? I have one of the Mabbco motors in our race car and not a wimper. 6500 rpm road racing. We did not touch it.
yes it is, tested against a dial torque wrench. both show same values. they were right on for 351 torque specs. someone just got confused apparently.
Maybe they used better bolts tat are spcd for higher trq?
In order to ensure proper torque, ARP makes their own lube for their own fasteners. This is because different lubes may lead to different torque values.
thats a split bore waiting to happen right there ! how did it go 4 years later ?
Still running. Actually has a weiand 174 blower on it
This is old news but you're just torquing the main caps to over spec. It's pretty easy to tell when you didn't get a click on 90 so you went until it did. That's not an accurate measurement of how they were, that's you torquing them.....
False - it is indeed an accurate measure of where they were torqued to.
sorry but your not gonna get 70 ft lb torqued mins to actually move as breaking torque , ie the amount it takes to break the main bolt face move against the main cap. I am certified Master machinist and I would at most marked the bolts broke them loose the retired them. Also did you check to see if they used aftermarket fasteners which call for higher torque spec. breaking torque can be 15-20 higher than spec. You have no idea what your checking or how to check it properly. AND if you have an high end torque wrench it CAN torque counterclockwise but you must actually buy appropriate tool. If you had uses new/calibrated beam wrench to break them loose and watching breaking torque. Now you buy an engine they spin test it on machine to make sure it's makes cylinder pressure and oil pressure and has no leaks in critical areas. You also have no clue what a reconditioned rod will look like.
Look man, I don't care who you are. The torque wrench will click off at torque. If I set it to 65, it breaks at 65, they were supposed to be 70 to 75. Not breaking at even 95 is ridiculous and obviously over torqued. Recondition rod, shot permed to relieve stresses, ground for balance, line honed, I know the shpeal. Do you work for mabbco? Because I actually forgot to mention the cam that has lifter wear on it that was in my engine. So consider yourself lucky I left that out for mabbco's sake.
And if you listen, I never said you can or can't torque counterclockwise. But I did warn against haphazardly using your torque wrench which is a precision instrument as a breaker bar. Which should be common sense. If you choose to argue that, then well, that pretty much speaks for itself.
+ThunderHead289 rolercams ARE reused in reman engines as well as liftwrs. add around $350-$600 to your bill if roller valvetrain is all replaced.
+MonzaRacer ??? Comp cam is 280 or so and new lifters are 135 (roller) ford units through summit. another good reason I went me own route with the cam. You get why you pay for for sure. Definitely glad I tore it down and put it back together correctly. Rear main seal would have leaked awful without the sleeve that I put on it. As I said in the video For 1000 bucks shipped I am not complaining.
Monzaracer is correct. If you torque a fastener to 70ft/lbs in one smooth motion as you should, the torque that it takes to start that fastener moving again will be considerably higher.
I have a honest question because i honestly dont know ..if a i am not supposed to loosen up bolts with my torque wrench because it will mess up my torque wrench then what do i use to torque down bolts with a left hand thread ????
A modern digital torque wrench is typically fine to tighten fasteners in reverse. Not a good idea to use a click type. OR if you trust your eyes, and a bit of talent, find a "beam type" torque wrench. That's how it's been done on left handed fasteners since the dawn of time.
So, was it reliable? I'm flirting with getting a Mabco Buick 350 shortblock.
It's still running today and has a Weiland 174 blower on it
@@ThunderHead289 Appreciate the reply. I wanna put a fresh 350 Buick in my daily driver (66 chevy pickup) and I don't wanna wait forever and a day for the machine shop to eventually think about boring a block.
@@ThunderHead289 seeing this reply on a 6 year old video just got me to sub. Interactions is really what keeps this platform good
Was considering buying a 1967 small journal 327 from them...
How many CC were the valve reliefs on those pistons? are those the flat top piston option they have? will probably order a 351w short block when its time. Lots of metallic glitter come out in the oil in my truck, always has since I bought it. Yet it always sounds good and oil pressure has never dropped. Go figure.
More than likely you'd have to ask but these 4 valve relief pistons cant take much more than stock sized valves.
I know because ive asked whoever makes the pistons wether its kb or speed pro. If you can, get 2 vakve relief pistons
@@KingJT80 I sent Mabbco an email asking what their $150 flat top piston special is and they said silvolite pistons, for a 351W. The bad thing about 4 valve relief pistons are the CC of the 4 big reliefs are just about the same as the stock dished pistons are. So, you're pretty much just throwing $150 away with that option! the $300 option for a 351w the pistons are KB151's, those are $300 but worth buying.
@@MattsRageFitGarage yeah if you plan on running anything other than a stock head with the mabco budge rebuild, get the better pistons
Me I think I'm just going to have my block crank and rods looked at in my 302 and have a local shop build the short block if the price is right
If its all good, I'm going dss e series budget forged flat top pistons afr cast 185 enforcer heads the matching intake with a mild crane retro roller cam and a summit 600 cfm vac secondary
I wanna buy a nice stroker or 351 from CREB engineering on EBay but we'll see how things go later this year. Read good things about them
Well if you don't want a .060 over block and want a micro polish and oil chamfer on the crank oil holes, not .020 or .030 rod journals and better rods. Why didn't you do your own building?? Would have been the same amount of time invested. Also you wouldn't have them Chinese pistons. Besides this in a Galaxie? I have seen your Galaxie, got one just like it. Should have put a big block in it. LOL I am just saying, if you want a certain quality, build it yourself!!! I am a builder and have worked in performance shops, when you order from a remanufacture that is what you get. However good video, thanks.
You can see on my channel page that I usually do build them myself - this was for fun to see what the cheapest priced short block gets you.
Ironically there’s a blower sitting on that engine now and a TKO500 behind it. Holds up surprisingly well, but you best believe I keep that thing dang cool. Any temp creep and it’s baby footing it
very good video. Currently I am looking at getting a long block 302 from Mabbco for my 88 ford ranger. It has already had the engine swap done, but my current engine has died on me. I was curious about the options that they have for their engines, and if they are actually pretty reliable. If i can get further information please in contact with me ASAP before ordering from their company.
ThunderHead289 currently I have the roller block. I also have for my transmission a np435 and a transfer case of np250.
Great video, very informative. Keep up the good work.
you'd do better if you'd use a torque wrench for left handed threads for checking torque on pre-assembled blocks like those. over torquing cause the bolts to stretch and other bad things to happen.
so have you had it started yet ? im looking to buy a short block 351 for my boat
I haven't yet, but from having it tore down, and putting it back together, I won't have any problems. Try to get a block that's not 60 over if you can help it.
I picked up a 302 1980 and was tearing it apart. The rods on the crank from front to rear were numbered #1 #5 #2 #6 #3 #7#4#8 Is this correct? Neverr pulled one of these apart before. The FE engines are numbered 1-8 in numerical order not cylinder order. Thanks
That looks correct. Ford engines label their cylinders straight from front to back. so 1-4 on 'passenger side' then 5-8 on the other.
Hi I have a rebuilt 302 that has never bin started sat for 15 years What do you recommend
spray some oil down in the cylinders and turn it over by hand several times. if its in a car, before you go to start it, you need to prime the oiling system, then turn the engine over without spark plugs in it for awhile.
from that point, as long as you have overworked the carb and ignition, it will start without the engine being damaged.
THANKS
Question for anyone who know's about machine shop work, would it be safe to bore a small block Ford 289 .60 over?
Have them sonic test it for wall thickness. It's not ideal, but if you have enough wall it'll be nine. The old blocks were thicker
ThunderHead289 Mine has been bored over once .30 and has rust in the cylinders, so I wouldn't know if it can or not.
+lemkelegion if you can't have it sonic tested at the machine shop, I wouldn't. It's a gamble. I'm gambling pretty hard on my engine
It's perfectly safe, uf anyone thinks that .030 or .020 is gonna make a difference your high.... get your micromiter out and see just how big .030 is and tell me you honestly thing that much material is gonna change anything
I must be in the wrong business. gollly that's a hell of a care package lol
Do you realize bolts are not just bolts? Factory torque specs might be thrown out the window based off the specs of the new bolt manufacture. For example if you run ARP rod bolts ,that bolt may never stretch to the point it needs to to hold tension and not loosen at a factory number. Pro engine builders torque to stretch for rod bolts or stud and nut. I'm not sure how one would do that in regards to the main cap bolts though.
How about an update, "ThunderHead289" ?
I built the engine, which a lot of it is on camera including a walk through of how to degree a cam. It’s been in my 65 galaxie since early 2019
@@ThunderHead289 How does it run? How many miles? Thanks for your reply and video!
I have 5000 miles on it, no issues - remember, all I got from them was a short block and I built the rest
@@ThunderHead289 I know, Thank you.
You need to lookup static vs dynamic torqu before damning this block
These are remanufactured motors? Correct? I could understand if this was supposed to be a blueprinted and balanced motor for all ur criticism.But that torque wrench looks good for a rebuild in the driveway,but I'd venture to say it's probably off a cpl of ft.lbs.Also was wondering if u knew what fasteners they used to build ur motor,I know u can get bolts that have a slightly higher torque specs. Maybe it's just me but I don't think the mains were over torqued they just were on the high side of spec.these guys use expensive building tools, it's what they do,not just on the weekends. Thanks for the video.
A few things here - they overtorque them then line bore them because the threads are already old/have been stretched a time or two.
My torque wrench may be “affrordable” at 120 bucks, but it’s not off by 20.
Everything was 351w spec, so it really makes a guy wonder.
If you check out my recent uploads, I went ahead and built this engine, and am putting it in my galaxie. I switched it to main studs which are supposed to have the higher torque, and torqued them as such.
Going to be firing it up this month
Thank you for the good video. All the engine re manufacturers I visited in So Cal area were horrible so I ended building a motor myself. I wish Mabbco would have a video tour of their facility but for what they charge, I guess you can't ask for too much. When you reassembled, did you use plastigauge?
Sure did, everything was amazingly within spec
So I know this thread older than the hills but would you recommend one? I'm lookin to put a 351w roller in my truck from Mabco
That first piston and rod assembly you weighed looked awfully fishy to me... look at the connecting rod by the wrist pin it’s discolored so that tells me it got hot as sh*t
That’s normal, they are interference pins - the machine shop heats the rod up to expand it and in goes the wrist pin. That’s just a typical piece of the small block ford design. That appearance on the connecting rods is normal
ThunderHead289 i see, makes sense I figured they were floating wristpins, dont see much of the press in ones much anymore
Hello. Have you ran this short block yet? Cool video. Thanks. Subscriber
thinking about buying a 351w from mabbco. would like to know how yours runs before i buy
totally understandable. there is someone else on youtube who has purchased a 351 mabbco and it can be seen running
Factory motors don't have stamped numbers on the rods.
Good stuff man!
How much was this short block.
Base is 650. Shipping adds 200 for truck freight.
Do you know how much compression it makes with a set of heads that are 58 cc.
+Warren Joseph it would be in the ten to one range. There are many factors, head gasket thickness, the overbore your block is. ... Your camshaft duration ...
bore .070 over max and sleeve it to .000 over
so when can we here it run its been 6 months
plans change every now and again. its currently a backup engine for the rotstang
There is absolutely NO WAY to determine how much torque was applied to a fastener with a(when was it calibrated) click type torque wrench. Also just ASSuming that they will move, and that YOU will notice is terribly naive. Being a mechanical engineer. . .and have done torque studies on threaded fasteners for a living, I can tell you that this is wildly innacurate.
Though I will say you gave them a decent report on the rest of the build. So I'm not complaining per sè, but the torque thing grinds my gears.
I know you are doing a video buy do you do this complete teardown with all the assembled engines you buy? If so, why not build them yourself.
Have you seen my channel? I do build them myself on the regular. This was just to see what all the fuss was about
Better check those lifter bores!! I got a motor from them and they were almost 1/8" out of spec. Block is junk.
I've got a 85 carbed 351w with cam and some work I bought for 500$ with a c6(but I'm selling it and I have a 4speed. it's going in a 73 Mustang conv. I've heard early and 90s blocks are the best, but some 80s truck engines are very good. does anything make my engine special? it is gonna be NA for a while and I may go turbo in the future.
The best thing about some 1980s 351W is that they had provisions for roller cams right from the factory. Even if the engine shipped with flat lifters, some engines were machined so that you could buy
1. A hold down spider
2. a set of anti-rotation things that go around the lifters
3. a set of OE replacement roller lifters that are far less expensive than tie bar lifters.
EDIT 4. an OE style hydraulic roller cam that costs much less than a retrofit style hydraulic roller cam.
However, I don't know which years were built like that. I'm just sharing the general information that I know.
or a 305
i dont even know what a 405 is. dont think it exists. a 305? if your looking to buy a 305, buy a 350. its the same block bolt patterns
send it back
they wouldnt take it back just because of the overtorque.
You know for a fact they were over tighten before you got it
+Richard Potts I mean, I proved it right on camera I do believe. I actually speak well of them in this video, though they are not fond that it exists.
as long as they are good
I like the 302 I have that in my old truck old blue
I bought a Oldsmobile 350 engine long block and it had Mitch Match heads on it number 8 head on passenger side and 7A on the driver side and then when I call them they said it was compatible bulshit
ThunderHead289, I recently bought a MABBCO crate 3VZE, which I had a local dealer install. It failed within 5 months, when returned to MABBCO to seek warranty, they claim that the engine was overheated. This has voided the warranty, do you have any advice? How do I know if it actually was overheated? I think I am being scammed.
So how did this end up after you put it all back together?
+JUSTIN MOYERS go to my most recent uploads. Finally putting it together and getting ready to run it
Yikes! 😬😬😬 + .060"??? That's too much for any Ford small block. Some of the professional 5.0l racers won't even go to + .040"! Those who have done, say it's the biggest reason these blocks get really weak above 500hp. Please keep us posted on the health of this engine.
I have heard that there is another problem with going past +.040 in an SBF. It has been said that those engines are more likely to overheat.
Must have been pretty worn out of they had to go 060 over on it.
Your torquing techniques are suspect. Why bother to "over torque" your bolts if you're just going to take it apart to have that block inspected anyway.
I didn’t torque it, they did
@@ThunderHead289 at 80ft lbs it was already over. Why push to 90..? 60-70 is norm. At that point you risked the harm you mentioned being over torqued...
Okay it was 20 pounds over and if Mr. Thunder Head does talk to an old school circle track guy that is a norm in my world 20 ftlbs over is it the max setting. That can wear out a set of cheapo non ferrous bearings. I use Harlan Sharps components if I rebuild a what I call a booger engine ( A BOOGER IS ANY ENGINE OVER 40 OVER WE CALL EM BOOGER ENGINES) but not everyone has the wallet for the stuff I buy. You need the right components when you fuck with engines over a .20 over bore I will say that.
+THEKING SILVERADO you know who I am right? And torque doesn’t do anything other than hold the cap on. Too tight and you deform the main cap. Unless the block itself is getting way hotter, thermal expansion on the mentioned components would be the same.
+THEKING SILVERADO ah, I might be seeing what you are saying now - the walls are thinner and don’t dissipate heat- block itself has the potential to get hotter. Need more torque to account for thermal expansion or you could get lift. That somewhat makes sense. Can see how you could lose your thread stretch of the block “grows” a little.
Yes sir I was just trying to give ya the upside of it kind being suttle like. I always had my circle track engines bored to max so did everyone else. Most drivers did and the Thermal expansion as you recognize it is the truth of the entire matter. It seems you got one of the better remans from MABBCO the reason I tripped over your video I am considering one of their engines for one of my truck rescue projects. Yes the old timers knew their stuff and have a bible of do's and don'ts... My father and grand father ran SPEED CITY in Allentown Pa. for many years now I run the other end of it here in the Pocono's. You will be okay running the engine just avoid days when the mean temps are above 104 degrees... And you can run a coolant additive to bring the internal temp down. There are several on the market just make sure ya git some if it's a summer time machine... You can add an additive brings the engine core temp down 20-30 degrees... I used it in the race car because some nights it stayed almost 100 degrees especially Bristol and Rockingham and Tempe' point speedway... Your sweat would sweat...
Thunder head I know little of you if anything but you have some videos like I do it's all conjecture and us... I hope ya kept those caps tightened up and I hope the motor rolled over okay it did seem a bit stiff but ya didn't dump oil on the bearings like i do when I open a cap I will put cam lube on the bottom bearings and oil. It helps if it is a mistaken hot start like some crew member forgets to fill the radiator up right... As i said ya got some decent videos and you and I feel our way thru some lost tech at times... Let me know how that motor works out for ya.. I am interested if there is another vid point me at it... I care... You do a good presentation... And listen to us old fucks and fuds we know some things okay... call my shop if you want okay no arm twisting, i want ya to win races.
I bought a rebuilt 454 bbc short block from mabbco & 1 of the pistons at tdc sat cocked high about .040 towards the rear.Obviously a bent rod that passed their "quality control" .I will not buy from them again.
That’s bad, how did they handle that phone call?
I fixed it myself,rather than ship back to texas & wait forever
i would like to talk to you about a 350 or a 404
The $ 64,000 Question...Did MABBCO know when they sold you the short block, you have a TH-cam channel, and/or that you would be publishing a review of the MABBCO product? Or were they BLIND to this fact? Thanks.
I really enjoyed the video and like you, I would be a bit concerned about the .060 overbore and the minor deficiencies, on the crankshaft. However, your MABBCO short block, clearly represents a LOT of engine, for the money!
I was a very small channel then and didn’t mention it - wasn’t pleased about the overtorque or the .060 over as others I have talked to have engines that didn’t have to go that far, but I gues s it’s just the luck of the draw
@@ThunderHead289 Thank you for the reply! Machining is SO expensive in CA., Mabbco is a bargain IF you get a good unit.
I am considering a build using a Mabbco Chevy 350 L98 87-95 1-piece R-Main, roller-block and a Enginequest heads. Anyone tried this combo?
Again, I enjoy your channel! Subscribed/Liked
Those Ford V8s that have been over bored more than 30 over have always ran hot. Is really never buy one more than that if I wanted good life out of it
I've actually found that to be quite the internet myth. I thought the same originally. Now .060 over is definitely risky though, more so for a thin wall - no arguement there
Always take the thinnest shit OIL that is in your shop even if is is air tool or compressor oil when rolling a motor over most of it is no more than cheapo crappy vegetable oil in some circumstances people will PAY 8 bucks for 4oz of veggie oil at lowes... Lube the cylinder walls coat the bottom cap bearings with cam lube or PRELUBE the Chinese their shit now days and it's worthless it has no ZINC in it... Always coat your cylinder walls with some kind of oil even if it is cheap shit. Never let any engine sit on your stand over a week without being oiled up and covered in plastic... Humidity can dog chew the mains and the bores.. So if ya have to work the whole the week coat it and cover it up in plastic air tight... You would be surprised what Southern Humidity can do to an engine...
I'd have sent it back with at the first overtorqued rod. Big outfits do that, they have cheap shitty labor and it shows.
Hello how are you doing my new friend of Asia continues if they accept your newly followers
Holy crap MABBCO, $1085 for a 351 Windsor. I need to find a nice junkyard that will sell one for less lol.
Well I mean, a junkyard engine is worn where a mabbco is fresh
@@ThunderHead289 Can a junkyard engine be improved or is it hopeless?
i gust started watching u and so 4 you look like you actually know what you're doing which I like that do you have a Facebook
I don't give my Facebook out to TH-cam. But I reply fairly often to comments on TH-cam
huh
why did you buy that if your just going to tear it up.
Literally to see if they made anything decent - but if you look at my channel quick, I reassembled the engine and have it in something to be fired up this year.
Bypassing waiting on the machine shop is a nice positive to all of this though - plus I doesn’t hurt to check the work done on a short block
Do people really believe that, 020 is Gonna make any difference? Lmao that just silly
breaking torque is not tightening torque........this guy knows just enough to think he knows what he's doing. I owned a shop and have been doing this for 45+ years.
better go back to the shop for another 45 years and learn to pay attention. He was tightening to test bolt torque lol
Get real....