Coming from 15 years of competitive yugioh - I can’t tell you how clean and not messy the text is here. “Wordy” to you guys is like flavor text for yugioh haha
@@raymakerscalisthenics660 oh yeah me too! I’m 30 now and playing regular standard yugioh is TAXING to the mind! I too play only Edison these days and EDH for magic
Strongly disagree with Will being C. If Rowin is S then Will is easily A, edging up on S. Everyone gets so focused on Rowin being able to make her spells 200 cheaper, and how it's harder for Will to do the same, the problem with that logic is you don't need to do that. turning a 7 cost game winning bomb into 2 mana after casting a 1 mana heal is just as powerful as reducing the cost by 50, and it still cost 2 mana.
I agree that Will is too low at C. Will definitely has lower risks than Rowan. The lifegain can be very strong, and his decks will only get stronger as time passes. With that being said: I have yet to see a Will deck win a game strictly based off of Will’s lifegain strategy. The problem with Will is the board-state, or lack there of. Will, typically, needs an established board to thrive at optimal power, where Rowan doesn’t need much of a board at all. Will doesn’t storm off like Rowan does. Sure, there are lifegain spells that can get you started; but you have to spend significantly more mana to get Will going. That’s only if you don’t want to build Will as an Azorius Stax deck.
@@N4chtigallbro it's very easy to lose life on your own turn in rakdos colors. Black Market connections, bolas citadel, any of the pay 2/3 life to draw spells, any of the cards that let you pay 2 life on a death trigger to draw a card etc etc, even phyrexian arena etc. Gaining life is mostly through etbs, sorceries or lifelinkers which will cost you more Mana on that turn before you can tap will to pop off. Will is good, but rowan is waaaaaay better.
@@MetaLibanez1paying life is linked to the power cards too. 2 colour lands that cost life to enter untapped, or paying life to tap for colours instead of colourless. The one ring costs life to turbo charge your card draw engine. Paying life for ancient tomb, possibly losing life on a coin flip for mana crypt. Basically, you have a shit ton of very powerful cards that cost life.
Sad to see my favorite commander from this year, Kellan, the Fae-Blooded, not on this list. One of my favorite Boros commanders to come out in years and I'm able to run all the other Boros equipment/aura commanders in the deck. 1v1 the deck is a monster, always being able to grab an enchantment like Darksteel Mutation or Swift Reconfiguration to turn off a commander early game is usually GG.
For cards like Kutzil, I think keywording that word salad as "Pumped" would work. WoTC already keworded "mill", so there's a precedent to using player shorthand phrases. So then Kutzil would be worded "Whenever one or more pumped creatures you control deals combat damage to a player, draw a card"
I think you maybe underrated Ellivere a bit. Even in non-stax she pops off if you run a bunch of strong combat oriented creatures. Ghalta is incredibly easy to slot into the deck and it can become a 30/30 trample in no time. You also get to run evasion auras and blink synergies to get Ellivere's ability over and over, and you get enchantress effects too
Elesh Norn doubling your ETB and cancelling other ETB should be way higher then C tier. Considering ETB being a heavily favoured trigger ability in EDH.
Yes but no actually. It's too slow and needs "more investment" to actually work. It's jsut too slow in the wrong mono color. Near every S tier can relieably kill the board by the time Elesh Norn is out. That's why she is C. Still strong, don't get me wrong but "speed" is a huge factor on "tierlists"
@@toedrag-release etali is good, any deck with the right color can play him. He is however not good as a commander. +Most of the time u use etali for the ETB trigger not the transform. Still not way he should be higher than Elesh as commander
Feels like Oner Axonil is oppressive in casual and terrible in competitive. Weird space to be in. He just does so much damage and comes back pretty easily in games that go long
Unctus consistently wins me games turns 2 through 5. It's broken and search in blue is a lot easier for wizards than you would think. So many infinite combos. 😊
Love the list. My one hang-up is Elesh Norn D tier. I have an Elesh Norn commander deck that I unlocked after I realized one thing: the Ardent Etchings combined with Proliferate is a lethal combination. If you proliferate the saga from 2 to 3 counters, then you wipe the board and have 40 damage with your 5 incubated Phyrexians. The deck can easily win by turn 7 or 8 after wiping all your opponents out with damage. While Elesh Norn as a creature is good, you really play her to get the saga going.
33:07 Heliod is so incredibly busted. The only downside is the flip at sorcery speed. (This keeps it just out of cedh top tier) Heliod+smothering tithe+folio of fancies=go to town! Mine is mono white pillow forte group hug, win con is Approach of the Second Sun. Opponents know of it's inevitability. (Every body lives needs to go in it).
100% agree, I have mine as CEDH and while it is not top tier it is not that far off. You are in the colors with really good stax pieces to slow the game down which is what you need for this commander as getting him to flip is the most difficult part. Once you flip him, unless the board deals with him almost immediately you are practically guaranteed the win. He also pseudo shuts down all the card draw engines like Rhystic study and The One Ring. Opponents think twice about drawing from these engines because it just fuels this commander. Being able to flash in all your win cons is so powerful.
Zimone and Dina is actually really powerful early game with untap cards and zombie recursion like gravewalker for example she’s way more powerful the more you look into her builds
Haven’t watched the whole thing , only on third commander but Hylda and Ellevier need to be A tier. Those decks go HAM and are both fairly budget friendly
Hylda isn’t A tier. It can be powerful but it’s a slow strategy and doesn’t scale well against higher power pods where creatures may be less common. It’s a powerful B tier deck, but it can’t hang with decks as powerful as Atraxa, Etali, or Narset, imo.
I love your vids and you've earned a sub. Only criticism would be that I would prefer a 3 hour long vid and have you guys spend more time on each card by showing some cards that combo off of each, an extra 15 seconds on each wouldn't hurt. Sometimes you're going too fast for me to fully process everything you're saying. Obviously your own time is limited and I understand you simply may not have time to record, watch, and edit before posting but just saying it would really move your tier list from an A to an S tier.
I'm new to Magic and I'd like to know which of the preconstructed commander decks you recommend to start with. No related videos found. I see that many MTG offers prebuilt and I have not seen any comparison. My budget is up to 50 dollars/euros.
I have a question regarding some cards I have in my dinosaur deck. Say I have Wayta, Trainer Prodigy on the field as well as a Marauding Raptor. If another dinosaur enters the battlefield and the raptor damages it, would that trigger marauding raptor an additional time? I don't think it would trigger the first part of the last ability since that was caused by an etb not damage but would it give my raptor +4/+0 rather than +2/+0? I'm very confused by the wording here.
Eddie here: We picked roughly the to 10% of commanders (in our opinions). That means 90% didn't make the cut - and that is rough! Even getting through this many took over an hour, so we just had to draw the line somewhere. S&S are still awesome.
and then losing to someone casting a lightning bolt in response... that literally just happened this week where I killed the Rowan player after they burnt their life total to 1 trying for a turn 3 win... just sat there staring at the bolt in my hand patiently waiting while they spun wheels to get their kill spell on the stack... 😂
@@chewy3141 i dont rely much on draws but low cost creatures with trample or evasions, and just keep on smacking, with it i draw cards as well from elii's ability
I can't believe Talion is at B-Tier. I don't even play him but obviously you guys need to be more exposed to playing against him bc the card draw engine is absolutely absurd. With the most competitive colors in edh, you guys need to rereview. Also, Will at C-tier? I just can't 😂😂😂
nah, sagas are cool and many are good, but bomba is just slow, he is simply a lategame commander and those often struggle in edh, especially when edh goes more into modern direction from year to year (manacurves, commander cmc and so on).
My take (all Commanders not listed I agree with). These are my oppinions and NOT law (though they totally should be =) Ehhhh... Farmer cotton is at best a B, perhaps even a C for me. A commander shouldn't be a one time trigger, but something that is still usefull 2-3 turns later. While definitly weaker than Rowan, Will is still good because he won't make you die to a lightning strike to the face and there are several cards in both blue and white or even artifacts that you can feed all that nice extra mana into. I'd put him into a high B or even a low A, but definitly below Rowan. Offff, HARD disagree. Elesh Norn is at least an upper C, more likely even a middeling B. White has everything really so not even her colour limits her much and with Norn's Annex and Ghostly Prison you can build up an Army without your enemies being able to compete since they have to pay a lot to even get a hit in at you. Eleviere will slow down the game a lot so you have to be prepared to need longer than an hour with her (and you should keep count of all enchantments with a dice or notepad). But she is deceptively strong. When I played her the first time (not knowing how good she was) I suddenly had her as an 16/16 on turn 4. With the unmodified Precon-Deck! At least B, if not A. For Heliod, yes, some settup is needed. But both a discount on mana-cost and playing at Flash-Speed? That's a Rank B guranteed, perhaps even Rank A Wow, you reallly don't like White. Well, I already made my argument again. The only downside I see with Mondrak is that he can't activate his own effect, but there are a lot of White Token Generators. And he can protect himself by becoming indestructible. So at least a C. Red I actually agree has some problems, especially carddraw. I still think D is too harsh, but I can see it. Tom Bombadil. In D. (sounds of a door opening, sounds of steps towards it, SLAM SLAM SLAM). Yeah, freak no. Rank A, with potential for S. I can understand if you refuse to play against Discard. But refusing to play a game because its long is laughable. Ojer Taq is a Rank B. I won't repeat my argument for white. Overall your placements are largely good, but I really can't understand your dislike of Tom Bombadil.
@user-nu3hf2ws8b any good recommendations cards to help him? I'm still making his deck and pretty much just throwing anything that a saga or enchantment
hidetsugu and kairi goes infinite with mass reanimate spells, creatures that return spells from graveyard to hand and sac outlets. all of those are plenty available in dimir. graveyard hate artifacts also make sure that opponents do not get anything out of their graveyard when going infinite with mass reanimate and also draw you card to assamble the combo. also any normal reanimate spell works as life insurance for you until you draw the combo. thus the renimate build is much more consistant than the copy one. my 50$ budget deck wins frequently against much more expensive decks and its my favorite deck until now.
Hey I know we got a billion Magic products this year, and I may have missed it, or it might have just not been covered, but did TCQ do a tier list for the Doctor Who product?
I think Galadriel, Light of Valinor deserves to be an A. If you have a Koma type effect and you build it primarily with with flash creatures as I have. You are consistently able to respond to anything the table throws at you with how much you are scrying and drawing
Even without those, you could run it with a few flash creatures, bounce creatures, and flash enablers and you're taking a turn on every turn the moment you get her to drop. You get to easily run Chuulane as a secret backup commander, too
I think just due to cEDH trends regardless of how you think, Atraxa and Lotho probably pretty much undeniably have to go to S tier. They are quite literally in that realm of strongest commanders without partner ever printed period.
How is Grand Unifier not an instant S tier ?? Seven mana is not that much in edh especially in green, not even talking about the reanimate strategy, and once she's out you can abuse that etb to instantly win or just use the impressive stats and keywords to take over the game, in cedh, this was the most busted commander released this year easily.
@@rokship97 and depending on how you build the deck you can really go insane. I use Narci, Fable Singer that does life loss to each opponent equal to the Sagas casting cost. Then using Yenna, Redtooth Regent + Three Blind Mice and a huge pay off saga like Kiora Bests the Sea God ive locked down the boards and just taken their life totals to 0 in couple turns.
I didn't like how often you "bumped down" VERY POWERFUL commanders just because the most powerful way to build them has stax / hatebear aspects. Stax/MLD is NOT even a viable strategy in cEDH.
the fact that when you were talking about Tom Bombadil... and said' "he's a hardy fellow"... and didn't immediately follow with "and his boots are yellow" is a huge flavor fail... and should move him up a rank
I strongly disagree with your oath breaker take as somebody who runs him as a commander I win about 75% of my games. The evasion is alot better then you think and unless you build to beat him it's not that easy I more likely then not end up with 20 spirits on the board and even if you have a board wipe ill phase them out.
Will/Rowan can be equally good, it just comes down to personal playstyle. Rowan is just the easier of the two to pull off in one turn, dump a bunch of life into a Wall of Blood or Necropotence, then blast with one big X spell for an OTK…Will is more staxy and controlling, able to maintain for longer in the game with multiple moves and plans to build up to a better board state than Rowan can build……also for their flavor profiles from the lore, she’s explosive and he’s calculated. Makes sense to play them each their own way
Strongly disagree with Ojer Axonil Tier D!!!! I just made a deck that won against very powerful commanders.. Very cheap cost to bring it back to table, and you have plenty of cheap spells and creatures that gives damage 1-2 to each opponent that can easily become 4-10 damage each
Wtf… how can u just drop kutzil to a C after thinking it’s an A just because you want a casual version. The card in itself is good so just let it be and rate it what u think initially don’t look for reasons to down play the card for a lower rank.
I got the precon, upgraded it a decent amount. I play clavileño as the commander because I like him and I have the showcase foil art which is one of my favorite cards in the whole set. But carmen is much better as a commander. I played a game on Monday where I was able to recur Wayfinders bauble 2 or 3 times with Carmen whilst setting up some other vamps and sac outlets on the board and managed to ramp ahead in orzhov and then won with a huge elenda sacrificed into about 80 x 1/1s. Clavileño is sweet but he's not that powerful. Built with a doubler like roaming throne is good, or the artifacts that can tap to copy a triggered ability and also double death triggers like drivnod or teysa karlov. That's the way to get more juice out if Clavileño. 😊
@@MetaLibanez1Yeah, definitely agree that Carmen is superior. I feel Elenda is better than both of them (and also in the 99 of the precon) though, so to unleash the maximum power i feel like changing to Elenda and making ~15 changes to the 99 will yield the best results.
Rawan S, and Atraxa A... do you even understand that Atraxa is part of Top-Meta if is not because of BlueFarm... I usually like ur videos but this Tier List is so wrong in so many levels, Talion Clones is sucha control deck that is overtaking most of the casual tables and some part of the cEDH competitive meta. Idk man, you are understimating so many cards and overstimating others so much...
They made it pretty clear that they aren’t really considering cEDH in their analysis. Hence, no mention of blue farm or other top tier decks when talking about Atraxa. I still think Atraxa should have been S tier because it dominates casual games through it being an absurd value engine. I also agree with you on Talion being placed too low. It should be A tier at least.
Yeah i mean they are mostly looking at these commanders being powerful on a tight budget. Atraxa is powerful on her own but obviously really shines when you build her with the top cards.
Coming from 15 years of competitive yugioh - I can’t tell you how clean and not messy the text is here. “Wordy” to you guys is like flavor text for yugioh haha
I can only play edison format in yugioh. Otherwise, I can't handle anything past pendulums
I know that feeling
@@raymakerscalisthenics660 oh yeah me too! I’m 30 now and playing regular standard yugioh is TAXING to the mind! I too play only Edison these days and EDH for magic
I don't understand how people can't follow "the stack" in magic like holy hell let me tell you about "chain links" 😂😢
@@fredgaeta62 😂😂😂 don’t tell them about Tearlament and the frequent CL8-10
Strongly disagree with Will being C. If Rowin is S then Will is easily A, edging up on S. Everyone gets so focused on Rowin being able to make her spells 200 cheaper, and how it's harder for Will to do the same, the problem with that logic is you don't need to do that. turning a 7 cost game winning bomb into 2 mana after casting a 1 mana heal is just as powerful as reducing the cost by 50, and it still cost 2 mana.
Will is sneaky good!
I’ve been surprise-wrecked by my friend’s casual Will “peacekeeping” deck enough to hard agree on this
I agree that Will is too low at C. Will definitely has lower risks than Rowan. The lifegain can be very strong, and his decks will only get stronger as time passes. With that being said: I have yet to see a Will deck win a game strictly based off of Will’s lifegain strategy. The problem with Will is the board-state, or lack there of. Will, typically, needs an established board to thrive at optimal power, where Rowan doesn’t need much of a board at all. Will doesn’t storm off like Rowan does. Sure, there are lifegain spells that can get you started; but you have to spend significantly more mana to get Will going.
That’s only if you don’t want to build Will as an Azorius Stax deck.
@@N4chtigallbro it's very easy to lose life on your own turn in rakdos colors. Black Market connections, bolas citadel, any of the pay 2/3 life to draw spells, any of the cards that let you pay 2 life on a death trigger to draw a card etc etc, even phyrexian arena etc.
Gaining life is mostly through etbs, sorceries or lifelinkers which will cost you more Mana on that turn before you can tap will to pop off.
Will is good, but rowan is waaaaaay better.
@@MetaLibanez1paying life is linked to the power cards too. 2 colour lands that cost life to enter untapped, or paying life to tap for colours instead of colourless. The one ring costs life to turbo charge your card draw engine. Paying life for ancient tomb, possibly losing life on a coin flip for mana crypt. Basically, you have a shit ton of very powerful cards that cost life.
Would love to see a Ixalan precon commander tier list!
Sad to see my favorite commander from this year, Kellan, the Fae-Blooded, not on this list. One of my favorite Boros commanders to come out in years and I'm able to run all the other Boros equipment/aura commanders in the deck. 1v1 the deck is a monster, always being able to grab an enchantment like Darksteel Mutation or Swift Reconfiguration to turn off a commander early game is usually GG.
I run him in my Nahiri deck! Wonderful synergy between the two.
For cards like Kutzil, I think keywording that word salad as "Pumped" would work. WoTC already keworded "mill", so there's a precedent to using player shorthand phrases. So then Kutzil would be worded "Whenever one or more pumped creatures you control deals combat damage to a player, draw a card"
Honestly this makes so much sense and they should 100% do this or something similar
I think you maybe underrated Ellivere a bit. Even in non-stax she pops off if you run a bunch of strong combat oriented creatures. Ghalta is incredibly easy to slot into the deck and it can become a 30/30 trample in no time. You also get to run evasion auras and blink synergies to get Ellivere's ability over and over, and you get enchantress effects too
Elesh Norn doubling your ETB and cancelling other ETB should be way higher then C tier. Considering ETB being a heavily favoured trigger ability in EDH.
Yes but no actually. It's too slow and needs "more investment" to actually work. It's jsut too slow in the wrong mono color. Near every S tier can relieably kill the board by the time Elesh Norn is out. That's why she is C. Still strong, don't get me wrong but "speed" is a huge factor on "tierlists"
Etali being higher than Elesh is criminal. It's 16mana blightsteel Elesh can shut everything down
@@toedrag-release etali is good, any deck with the right color can play him. He is however not good as a commander. +Most of the time u use etali for the ETB trigger not the transform. Still not way he should be higher than Elesh as commander
Feels like Oner Axonil is oppressive in casual and terrible in competitive. Weird space to be in. He just does so much damage and comes back pretty easily in games that go long
Talion as "B" Commander is a crime. Nothing less than "A"
"Let's make every deck Stax" - Eddie
Staxstaxstax. Everybody!
Control and stax aren't always overlapping but I get the impression they do for Eddie lol
Shoutout to one of my favorite commanders not mentioned in this list. Rocco, Street Chef, From the MOM: Aftermath set. Incredibly fun and strong deck.
Unctus consistently wins me games turns 2 through 5. It's broken and search in blue is a lot easier for wizards than you would think. So many infinite combos. 😊
What’s your deck list I’m curious :)
2023 and you guys didnt have mishra claimed by gix on here? Blasphemous act! That dude is the villain every game! Ask me how i know!!
Love the list. My one hang-up is Elesh Norn D tier. I have an Elesh Norn commander deck that I unlocked after I realized one thing: the Ardent Etchings combined with Proliferate is a lethal combination. If you proliferate the saga from 2 to 3 counters, then you wipe the board and have 40 damage with your 5 incubated Phyrexians. The deck can easily win by turn 7 or 8 after wiping all your opponents out with damage. While Elesh Norn as a creature is good, you really play her to get the saga going.
I have a Norn deck, you have a deck list online to share? Trying to get some ideas
Turn 7-8 isn't fast enough these days to be top tier. My sons Krick deck destroys me at turn or sometimes before
33:07 Heliod is so incredibly busted. The only downside is the flip at sorcery speed. (This keeps it just out of cedh top tier)
Heliod+smothering tithe+folio of fancies=go to town!
Mine is mono white pillow forte group hug, win con is Approach of the Second Sun. Opponents know of it's inevitability. (Every body lives needs to go in it).
100% agree, I have mine as CEDH and while it is not top tier it is not that far off. You are in the colors with really good stax pieces to slow the game down which is what you need for this commander as getting him to flip is the most difficult part. Once you flip him, unless the board deals with him almost immediately you are practically guaranteed the win. He also pseudo shuts down all the card draw engines like Rhystic study and The One Ring. Opponents think twice about drawing from these engines because it just fuels this commander. Being able to flash in all your win cons is so powerful.
Zimone and Dina is actually really powerful early game with untap cards and zombie recursion like gravewalker for example she’s way more powerful the more you look into her builds
How would you rate smeagol a helpful guide and sovereign okinec halaul for a "non-infinite" playgroup?
Haven’t watched the whole thing , only on third commander but Hylda and Ellevier need to be A tier. Those decks go HAM and are both fairly budget friendly
Hylda isn’t A tier. It can be powerful but it’s a slow strategy and doesn’t scale well against higher power pods where creatures may be less common. It’s a powerful B tier deck, but it can’t hang with decks as powerful as Atraxa, Etali, or Narset, imo.
I love your vids and you've earned a sub. Only criticism would be that I would prefer a 3 hour long vid and have you guys spend more time on each card by showing some cards that combo off of each, an extra 15 seconds on each wouldn't hurt. Sometimes you're going too fast for me to fully process everything you're saying. Obviously your own time is limited and I understand you simply may not have time to record, watch, and edit before posting but just saying it would really move your tier list from an A to an S tier.
I'm new to Magic and I'd like to know which of the preconstructed commander decks you recommend to start with. No related videos found. I see that many MTG offers prebuilt and I have not seen any comparison. My budget is up to 50 dollars/euros.
The lost caverns actually happen to be purty good going from pirates at the bottom to vampires at the best but there all good
The power creep is insane when a card like norn with tons of other cards stapled to it in the command zone is only c
Bartolome is a sack outlet in the zone, idk id give him b but mid b imo
I have a question regarding some cards I have in my dinosaur deck.
Say I have Wayta, Trainer Prodigy on the field as well as a Marauding Raptor.
If another dinosaur enters the battlefield and the raptor damages it, would that trigger marauding raptor an additional time? I don't think it would trigger the first part of the last ability since that was caused by an etb not damage but would it give my raptor +4/+0 rather than +2/+0?
I'm very confused by the wording here.
Slimefoot and Squee wasn't even mentioned. Casual indeed.
Eddie here: We picked roughly the to 10% of commanders (in our opinions). That means 90% didn't make the cut - and that is rough! Even getting through this many took over an hour, so we just had to draw the line somewhere. S&S are still awesome.
not even a metion of lord of the nazgul either & that dude is a powerhouse. this isnt casual, its precon.
Rowan is the definition of a glass cannon but the idea of like a turn 3 or 4 exsanguinate for x=30 is kinda funny.
and then losing to someone casting a lightning bolt in response... that literally just happened this week where I killed the Rowan player after they burnt their life total to 1 trying for a turn 3 win... just sat there staring at the bolt in my hand patiently waiting while they spun wheels to get their kill spell on the stack... 😂
@@echoesvayne9790 makes for a hilarious gotcha moment though haha. Never didn't have it.
Minnesota TH-cam!?! :D See the Brrr shirt! Awesome haha
Why is it that once the commander is not going to stack route its automatic to low tier?😢
Yeah ellivere is great at being a solid enchantment deck that unlike others actually pushed for a wincon (Sythis)
@@chewy3141 i dont rely much on draws but low cost creatures with trample or evasions, and just keep on smacking, with it i draw cards as well from elii's ability
I can't believe Talion is at B-Tier. I don't even play him but obviously you guys need to be more exposed to playing against him bc the card draw engine is absolutely absurd. With the most competitive colors in edh, you guys need to rereview. Also, Will at C-tier? I just can't 😂😂😂
I just built Will thinking it might be pretty casual...left unchecked for even a single turn, I run away with the game every time. Minimum A tier
Imodane not even on the tier list???, she is easily the best burn commander in the format.
100%! My Imodane deck is one of my faves. Rarely wins but always fun!
I would like to see where imodane ranks too, interested in building a deck around her
Should have zoomed in on the final result and posted a link to it.
Talion is busted because you can clone him!! Spark Double + Sakashima and a few others allows you to get past it being a legendary!!!
Where would y'all rate Hylda?
They really underestimate the power of tom bombadil at LEAST B tier imo
nah, sagas are cool and many are good, but bomba is just slow, he is simply a lategame commander and those often struggle in edh, especially when edh goes more into modern direction from year to year (manacurves, commander cmc and so on).
Not even the best Saga commander narci, fable singer will actually win you the game at some point.
Love shalai and hallar, I run hydras for the lols
8:38 now do you take the Rona with lime lol
Sad not seeing Hylda of the Icy Crown on here :(
My take (all Commanders not listed I agree with). These are my oppinions and NOT law (though they totally should be =)
Ehhhh... Farmer cotton is at best a B, perhaps even a C for me. A commander shouldn't be a one time trigger, but something that is still usefull 2-3 turns later.
While definitly weaker than Rowan, Will is still good because he won't make you die to a lightning strike to the face and there are several cards in both blue and white or even artifacts that you can feed all that nice extra mana into. I'd put him into a high B or even a low A, but definitly below Rowan.
Offff, HARD disagree. Elesh Norn is at least an upper C, more likely even a middeling B. White has everything really so not even her colour limits her much and with Norn's Annex and Ghostly Prison you can build up an Army without your enemies being able to compete since they have to pay a lot to even get a hit in at you.
Eleviere will slow down the game a lot so you have to be prepared to need longer than an hour with her (and you should keep count of all enchantments with a dice or notepad). But she is deceptively strong. When I played her the first time (not knowing how good she was) I suddenly had her as an 16/16 on turn 4. With the unmodified Precon-Deck! At least B, if not A.
For Heliod, yes, some settup is needed. But both a discount on mana-cost and playing at Flash-Speed? That's a Rank B guranteed, perhaps even Rank A
Wow, you reallly don't like White. Well, I already made my argument again. The only downside I see with Mondrak is that he can't activate his own effect, but there are a lot of White Token Generators. And he can protect himself by becoming indestructible. So at least a C.
Red I actually agree has some problems, especially carddraw. I still think D is too harsh, but I can see it.
Tom Bombadil. In D. (sounds of a door opening, sounds of steps towards it, SLAM SLAM SLAM).
Yeah, freak no. Rank A, with potential for S.
I can understand if you refuse to play against Discard. But refusing to play a game because its long is laughable.
Ojer Taq is a Rank B. I won't repeat my argument for white.
Overall your placements are largely good, but I really can't understand your dislike of Tom Bombadil.
Probably no big win con for sagas to help him. I'm still trying to make a deck for him
@user-nu3hf2ws8b any good recommendations cards to help him? I'm still making his deck and pretty much just throwing anything that a saga or enchantment
hidetsugu and kairi goes infinite with mass reanimate spells, creatures that return spells from graveyard to hand and sac outlets. all of those are plenty available in dimir. graveyard hate artifacts also make sure that opponents do not get anything out of their graveyard when going infinite with mass reanimate and also draw you card to assamble the combo. also any normal reanimate spell works as life insurance for you until you draw the combo. thus the renimate build is much more consistant than the copy one. my 50$ budget deck wins frequently against much more expensive decks and its my favorite deck until now.
Kutzil is pretty good with Arahbo as your commander. Free +3/+3 every turn. (Same with Sovereign Okinec Ahau)
Heliod is a Beast. We got destroyed a few weeks back. If hes flipped and rdy to go you better have some counters up your sleeve. Hes A at least.
It seems every commander is compared to cEDH in regards to combos and power level. Made this tier list super wonky and annoying to watch.
How are you going to call Ojer Taq an Omega level commander in one video and then rank him D-tier in this video? Make up your damn mind, dude.
I think you guys forgot to talk about Jin Gitaxias // The Great synthesis. Absolutely devastating mono blue commander.
Hey I know we got a billion Magic products this year, and I may have missed it, or it might have just not been covered, but did TCQ do a tier list for the Doctor Who product?
Audio is a little on the low end mic's would be ideal.
Why was the best typal commander of 2023 not on this list the great Urtet Reminant of Memnarch?
I think Galadriel, Light of Valinor deserves to be an A. If you have a Koma type effect and you build it primarily with with flash creatures as I have. You are consistently able to respond to anything the table throws at you with how much you are scrying and drawing
Even without those, you could run it with a few flash creatures, bounce creatures, and flash enablers and you're taking a turn on every turn the moment you get her to drop. You get to easily run Chuulane as a secret backup commander, too
My will deck slaps. I will Stan that deck all day. I think rowan is so easy to snipe or watch herself kill herself
How in the world is a free sack outlet in the command zone not least an A
Is zhulodok there?
No Francisco??? Talion not being S is also WILD
Lot of these commanders are stronger than listed, heliod for sure is one
I think just due to cEDH trends regardless of how you think, Atraxa and Lotho probably pretty much undeniably have to go to S tier. They are quite literally in that realm of strongest commanders without partner ever printed period.
How is Grand Unifier not an instant S tier ?? Seven mana is not that much in edh especially in green, not even talking about the reanimate strategy, and once she's out you can abuse that etb to instantly win or just use the impressive stats and keywords to take over the game, in cedh, this was the most busted commander released this year easily.
Doing my girl Hylda dirty and not even adding her to this list haha
Tom Bombadil as a D... how cute... Seriously... Its one of the most powerful decks I have.
Being able to get a new Saga immediately after another ends is so nuts. If I had more Sagas and dual lands I’d totally be playing him right now.
@@manwithabasicprofilepic Especially with it just checking that the final ability resolves, keep your old saga and get a new one.
@@rokship97 and depending on how you build the deck you can really go insane. I use Narci, Fable Singer that does life loss to each opponent equal to the Sagas casting cost. Then using Yenna, Redtooth Regent + Three Blind Mice and a huge pay off saga like Kiora Bests the Sea God ive locked down the boards and just taken their life totals to 0 in couple turns.
Where is Orvika at?
no urtet makes me sad ;-;
I may be too ego driven here but I feel i could convince you otherwise about ojer axonil if I sent you my list.
Was this streamed? Why do we need a comment about going on a break so many times? Just put the midrolls in and cut back to the content
No Eriette?
What about Frodo and Sam partners, cry.... I can live the Food dream!
No eriette of the charmed??
Holy fuck Grand Uinifer was this year?!
no Carmen ?
I didn't like how often you "bumped down" VERY POWERFUL commanders just because the most powerful way to build them has stax / hatebear aspects. Stax/MLD is NOT even a viable strategy in cEDH.
wherrr Sam & Frodo???
the fact that when you were talking about Tom Bombadil... and said' "he's a hardy fellow"... and didn't immediately follow with "and his boots are yellow" is a huge flavor fail... and should move him up a rank
surprised zhulodok didnt make the list
- "white is the weakest color"
- Elesh norn, Mother of Machine almost got banned before its release
his buddy is a little bias on mono colored decks but i bet he loses to mono blue everyday
No Imodane, the Pyrohammer??
Galadriel is oppressive asf, I built her and she has never lost. Galadriel would eat you alive
Slimefoot & Squee better than 1/3 of the commanders in S tier. :/
Justice for the FUNgi's
So we’re ignoring Eriette of the Charmed Apple?
I want to see where this ranks too
Eriette of the Charmed Apple, where?
Built Eriette Pillowfort, myself. I become public enemy #1 real quick, lol. I love it, though! Especially when I get my aura mover out. Gets so silly
Ellivere C ... Oh boy 🤣🤣 I like when a commander is underrated, it allows me to kick the asses of those who never played it.
What about the jurassic park comanders
Amalia feels pretty strong too
Edgar Markov where?
I strongly disagree with your oath breaker take as somebody who runs him as a commander I win about 75% of my games. The evasion is alot better then you think and unless you build to beat him it's not that easy I more likely then not end up with 20 spirits on the board and even if you have a board wipe ill phase them out.
The lack of Imodane the Pyrohammer makes me angry!
Will/Rowan can be equally good, it just comes down to personal playstyle. Rowan is just the easier of the two to pull off in one turn, dump a bunch of life into a Wall of Blood or Necropotence, then blast with one big X spell for an OTK…Will is more staxy and controlling, able to maintain for longer in the game with multiple moves and plans to build up to a better board state than Rowan can build……also for their flavor profiles from the lore, she’s explosive and he’s calculated. Makes sense to play them each their own way
SHELOB CHILD OF UNGOLIANT SHOULD BE ON THIS LIST AND SHOULD BE AN A
Strongly disagree with Ojer Axonil Tier D!!!! I just made a deck that won against very powerful commanders.. Very cheap cost to bring it back to table, and you have plenty of cheap spells and creatures that gives damage 1-2 to each opponent that can easily become 4-10 damage each
Where is Saheeli? She is like...really good? You guys are missing out on an A rank commander.
Wtf… how can u just drop kutzil to a C after thinking it’s an A just because you want a casual version. The card in itself is good so just let it be and rate it what u think initially don’t look for reasons to down play the card for a lower rank.
No doctor who? 😭
Not a bad episode, but I will say yah talked over your guest quite a bit.
Bartholome but no clavileno?
Joduh should be in this list
Jodah the Unifier came out in 2022
Where's anikthea???
Come on guys where is jodah? Did you never play against a Jodah the unifier deck?
Lotho is a Playable cedh Commander, ye lets Put him in B Tier I guess
Elesh norn mom is definitely s tier.
Where's Clavileño??
I got the precon, upgraded it a decent amount. I play clavileño as the commander because I like him and I have the showcase foil art which is one of my favorite cards in the whole set. But carmen is much better as a commander. I played a game on Monday where I was able to recur Wayfinders bauble 2 or 3 times with Carmen whilst setting up some other vamps and sac outlets on the board and managed to ramp ahead in orzhov and then won with a huge elenda sacrificed into about 80 x 1/1s.
Clavileño is sweet but he's not that powerful. Built with a doubler like roaming throne is good, or the artifacts that can tap to copy a triggered ability and also double death triggers like drivnod or teysa karlov. That's the way to get more juice out if Clavileño. 😊
@@MetaLibanez1do you have a list for your carmen change over?
@@MetaLibanez1 yup, throne, teysa and mondrak is the way im doing ir
@@MetaLibanez1Yeah, definitely agree that Carmen is superior. I feel Elenda is better than both of them (and also in the 99 of the precon) though, so to unleash the maximum power i feel like changing to Elenda and making ~15 changes to the 99 will yield the best results.
Heliod is easilly A tier. If no one has any counterspells it is in respose, I win the game.
Imagine being a orzhov vampire legend and getting beaten by a bunch of fat, lazy hobbittzez
😢 ellivere at c
Rawan S, and Atraxa A... do you even understand that Atraxa is part of Top-Meta if is not because of BlueFarm... I usually like ur videos but this Tier List is so wrong in so many levels, Talion Clones is sucha control deck that is overtaking most of the casual tables and some part of the cEDH competitive meta.
Idk man, you are understimating so many cards and overstimating others so much...
They made it pretty clear that they aren’t really considering cEDH in their analysis. Hence, no mention of blue farm or other top tier decks when talking about Atraxa.
I still think Atraxa should have been S tier because it dominates casual games through it being an absurd value engine. I also agree with you on Talion being placed too low. It should be A tier at least.
Yeah i mean they are mostly looking at these commanders being powerful on a tight budget. Atraxa is powerful on her own but obviously really shines when you build her with the top cards.