Don't Ruin Doc Ock (A Spider-Man No Way Home Theory)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- With Spider-Man No Way Home finally revealed to the world, the worst kept secret in Hollywood is finally out; Alfred Molina will be returning to his Spider-Man 2 role of Doctor Otto Octavius (Doc Ock) alongside the other members of the sinister six including Jamie Foxx's Electro and Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin. But unlike those villains, explaining Ock's bad intentions could be tricky to explain. I look at what made Ock's original ending in Sam Raimi's sequel so special, and why it must be preserved in his latest outing...
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#spidermannowayhome #spiderman2 #docock
So... now the movie is out... was he ruined? Here's what I think. (Spoilers: yes and no!) th-cam.com/video/1_xZbJCfgF4/w-d-xo.html
*Doc Ock “accidentally” drops or throws Peter away from Green Goblin and the rest of the Sinister Six*
“Butterfingers!”
If anyone that would be Sandman. He literally protects Peter from Electro in the trailer
@@j.jonahjameson5729 or maybe, just an accident? I mean it’s happened a bunch of times before in the comics
@@ianjbanks3528 wouldn't make sense after he literally feels guilty for killing his uncle
@@irrelevanttroll3312 ey man I dunno 🤷♀️, either he’s one Spider-Man’s side or electro accidentally hit him. I just want it to be like an alternate version or something so we can get a Sinister Six instead of a Sinister Five
@@ianjbanks3528 I read a comic wherein Electro misfired at Sandman and turned him into a glass statue. He’s a reckless
As someone pointed out on Twitter. The arms have red lights when they’re in control and white lights when Otto is in control. In the trailer the lights are red. He’s not himself.
Unless they are doing trailer trickery by making us think he's bad by having the lights red in the trailer but white in the movie
@@Bradon_Ray Possible, but what’s the Sinister Six without Doc Ock? A Snape twist doesn’t really do it for me since he wouldn’t actually be an S6 member and I think for a lot of fans of the comics that’d just be a repeat of the Trevor moment only to be retconned with the MCU variant of Ock. I’m not against one of the villains helping the Spiders. Sandman and Vulture for example are established to be in control of their minds and on their respective Peter’s sides. The sixth position in the team could go to Scorpion or Rhino.
@@archerpool I'm thinking one of the sinister six has to be good in order to make way for both vulture and scorpion, which I think sandman will be good, but if doc ock is good then that leaves room for mysterio since I don't think he's actually dead
@@Bradon_Ray My thinking is the team will appear to be eight; Ock, Goblin, Electro, Lizard, Rhino, Scorpion, Sandman and Vulture. Rhino will be defeated early on. Sandman and Vulture will help the Spiders and end up losing. Leaving five members where it’s revealed that Mysterious is somehow behind everything and will be the sixth member. Perhaps his Multiverse lie wasn’t a lie and that he somehow found away where every time he dies he just wakes up in a different universe.
@@archerpool i actually don't believe mysterio is dead in this universe, Peter asked Edith "is this real" when Mysterio was "dead" and Edith said all illusions are down, but you don't need to have an illusion to fake being dead, Peter didn't tell Edith to run a vitals check, so I don't think Mysterio is dead in this universe at all
Tobey should be the one to tell Tom "with great power comes great responsibility." I'd say that's a worthy substitute for uncle Ben saying it
Many people wanted him to play Uncle Ben in Homecoming, so that makes sense.
I was thinking that too.
That'd be brilliant. If they do this right it has potential to be even more hype than Endgame was.
@@UmbrellaGent what if Tobey’s Spider-Man comes through the portal Tom Holland’s Spider man starts crying because it turns out Tobey’s spider man was Uncle Ben in the MCU
No, because that already happened before homecoming, we don't need that to be said to Tom
Honestly, the way Doc Ock was handled in NWH was one of my absolutely favourite things about the movie. Even when still possesed by the tentacles and confused by a different Parker, he still is the most intelligent and aware guy on the block. And the moment he is relieved of his torment, he turns to Peter asking how he can help and actually aids the Parkers with handling the multiverse fvckup. They got Raimi-era Otto done right to a tee.
What if we were being mislead and ock was actually happy to see Peter and the have different music in the film like a triumphant return kind of thing.
I was thinking this
This could be true, but I think they'll try to do a Sinister Six type thing with this movie so having Doc Oc be a hero would take away from that
The lights on the arms are red so no
I can see him fighting Green Goblin in that scene, happy to see Spiderman arrive for backup.
@@cameron9385 MCU Peter has three villains in his universe one is dead sure but the other two are alive
The plot reminds me of the like aunt may said in TASM “secrets aren’t free, they always come with a price”. Perfect line, this is the price Peter must pay to keep his secret
You should watch my video essay about Tom Hollands Spiderman!
I used to hate that movie but i actually like it now . Glad now people like it now. The 2nd was trash though
@@Mr_Cinematic will do after this video
@@soos8785 yeah i would argue its the best spiderman movie, not the best movie of the bunch, but it does spiderman the best, but the second one was dog shit
Mephisto sense is tingling
Peter: Please do this thing for me
Strange: okay
Wong: Don't do it
Strange: Imma do it anyways
Wong: Seriously, don't do it
Strange: *Does it anyways*
*it goes wrong*
Strange: Peter what did you do?!?!
It goes wong
He did keep talking during the incantation while strange specifically said multiple times to stop talking! A classic case of Rick and Morty syndrome where Morty is at fault even though Rick and him are doing something they should but Rick does it anyways and Morty screws it up but Rick will get blamed for it by the community and per the community Morty is always innocent!
it went wrong BECAUSE of peter
Worst. Sorcerer Supreme. EVER.
@@SRosenberg203 I read that in comic book guys voice!
I'd like to point out that Peter revealing his identity to Doc Ock was THE reason he bothered to listen to him. So when Strange says that "everybody in the world is going to forget that Spiderman is Peter Parker" and the multiverse starts colliding in on itself, that spell may have had an effect on the other multiverses, thus affecting Doc Ock.
Edit: Do you know how silly some of you all look correcting a theory somebody made before the second trailer dropped?
This is a great point, thank you for highlighting it
makes a lot of sense but he says “hey peter” when he comes back indicating that he obviously knows spider-man’s identity
@@jacklack4213 fair enough, but trailer trickery could be misleading the viewer into believing that he’s referring to spider man instead of just regular Peter Parker.
Wooooooooow!
@@jacklack4213 But if this is the scene people from the other universes appear in Tom Holland’s universe, Tobey Maguire’s spidey could return in plainclothes
I honestly believe that these villains won't have much character. They'll have personality but they probably won't have the time to delve deep into their backstories- I predict this Doc Ock will be from "another dimension" but never explicitly state that it's from the other movies. Just an Alfred Molina Ock
They'll most likely borrow the *different* J.Jonah Jameson played by same actor tactic for all of these villains and maybe have alternate Andrew and Tobey Spidermen like Tobey could be a much older Noir Spider-Man and Andrew would suit being Scarlett Spider/Ben Reilly?
Except Molina ready confirmed it's right after spiderman 2
It's as if he thinks the film will be 4 hours long. Of course these villains will be flanderized, for fucks sake they have to set the whole premise up in the film before even unveiling the villains. Keep your expectations in check.
Yup. Between the Sinister Six, Three Spiderman, Doctor Strange, AND still have MJ, Ned, Aunt May, and Happy around to do stuff? Its would be WAY too packed of a movie. I think all of the alternate reality might be a Red Herring again, just like it was in Far From Home.
@@TonyGiannamore idk, endgame had a LOT to unpack and managed to do it pretty well. Sure they split the infinity war story into two films but endgame got a lot done that didn’t feel too rushed.
I think it’s more important that characters like Ock and Goblin are incredibly character driven villains in their relationship with THEIR Spider-man. However with this, it’s just another universe’s villain. I don’t know how they’re gonna make us feel as if these villains have that personal relationship with Spider-man.
This channel missed that point that they aren’t the same versions of the Raimi movies, I can already tell this guy has his expectations too high
Exactly. Maybe they don’t all have to have their personal versions of the villains but the driving conflict absolutely needs to have that relationship.
@@XDarkBrotherhoodHD what are you talking about? the goblin bombs AND Ock's arms are literally the same
@@MatimDraws ya and its the same actor, Disney is associating the characters with what they are known for, if they didn’t it would just be some Green Goblin not the Dafoe Goblin, they are not going to have arcs
Those arcs ended with Raimi’s trilogy
@@XDarkBrotherhoodHD Molina already confirmed it would be Doctor Octopus from Spider-man 2.
Let's keep our fingers crossed that they don't butcher his character
they won't
@@ProjektTaku they very well might
Knowing Disney.... They probably will😒 I'm not gonna let my nostalgia get in the way of my criticism of this film. Still hate the title, No Way Home, really?
@@Red-Renegade-Studios but its mainly Sony tho
@@Red-Renegade-Studios Disney has done great with Marvel so far what makes you say that?
So basically, be ballsy enough to focus A LOT on the villains instead of the heroes? I FUCKING LOVE IT.
This was my immediate concern when I heard he was coming back. The entire Spiderman trilogy, but especially Spiderman 2, was my childhood. I sincerely hope they do his character justice.
I was thinking exaactly the same here 😥❤️
Idk why people think he's going to be messed up, they aren't "resurrecting" any of these villains, they are pulling them from alternate dimensions/the past. This means they are likely being pulled from the other spiderman universes at a time before they redeemed themselves.
It to sound like that guy, but I doubt it.
Dode no that multi
@person personBut they hated Iron Man that was their motivation
Watch marvel be doing the classic “edit out or swap the cgi” and Doc is actually holding Holland Peter with his arms as Tobys Peter arrives to the scene and that’s who he is talking too
Watch Disney Cocktease the whole film like their last few and Alfred molina gets like 2 minutes of screentime.
@@yderga8707 that's more of a Sony thing to do (still mad at Rhino from TASM2)
@@yderga8707 I would be so upset he was such a compelling villian and even great character
@@yderga8707 dont jinx it
@@captain_dsz6049 remember when they brought in (insert character/actor here) in wandavision only to have him revealed to be an unimportant bystander later on?
Otto is the most skilled engineer out of the bunch, it would make sense for him to be the one to work on the six's tech. And then, conveniently, their tech all seems to fail at convenient times
All accept Goblins as he already had his own tech, who figures out that the tech was failing on purpose and conveniently backstabs the backstaber to prove the point that no one messes with him. Seems like it could be a cool idea!
Honestly, Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin doesn't really feel like a character that can be ruined.
They ruined Joker once, they can definitely ruin Green Goblin
@@AVGyerra22 idkman, imo he's no joker
@@salboogatti2393 Life finds a way... I've not seen Gobby suffer character assasination, but rest assured people goof up very easy characters all the time.
@@salboogatti2393 True. If freaking Joker can be ruined, he totally can, too.
Harry Osborn Green Goblin **Cough Cough**
I mean, Vulture owes Peter his life, so it would be interesting for him and Ock to team up against the others.
Nah, he basically said they are even when he didn’t tell the others, including the Scorpion, his identity.
That is even if Vulture remembers Peter is Spider-Man. Remember that the spell could have works but the multiverse stuff was a side effect. If that’s the case, all the Vulture would remember about Spider-Man is he’s a guy that ruined his operations and screwed over his family.
Same with Sandman at the end of Spiderman 3. They all ended up turning to good right at the end of their movies. I find it weird they’re out for revenge.
@@kylevernon It’s a possibility that Doc Ock remembers his wife’s death was caused slightly because of Spider-Man distracting him in that scene at his event
Vulture is more of a "if I knew who Spider-Man was, he'd be dead" and not telling Scorpion because "if anyone's going to kill Spider-Man, it's going to be me."
I think when he says "Hello Peter", he's actually talking to Peter Parker, aka Spiderman. Cracked the code
Holy crapoli I think you're on to something
Hes obviously talking to peter griffin smh my head
Yes, and when Tom's Peter said "Steven", he was actually referring to Steven Strange, aka Doctor Strange.
@@goodtimesgivecancer1 I absolutely adore the way you say smh
Na he’s talking to Chris pratt
This could either be painfully disappointing or an absolute gem.
...and no inbetween
he's definitely going to be an other parody spider man film not serious film and full with dumb jokes
@@badreedinedjellali1328 if they manage to butcher this once and a lifetime event by "Disney-fying" it, then that's it. There'd literally be no point in watching anymore MCU movies, if they mess this up this could be a final nail in the MCU's coffin
Just like every other movie. Wow.
From a marvel movie? No movie has been painfully disappointing, this will definitely not be an outlier. Theres also no way that they can so easily erase doc ocs redemption they would have to go above and beyond for that, regardless is it nostalgia bait if this was already what you wanted and the movie isnt bad?
Maybe Doc Ock isn't a bad guy. He certainly felt friendly in the trailer
They said Tom Hardy was one of the casts
Ah yes, so friendly, destroying a bridge and emerging from smoke. That's the kind of pal I want in my life.
Lol
@@moldomre4838 It was Goblin's bomb that did the bridge, not otto
@UCwD4KnLMZ9JKN8apJnVMhtA what about the green goblin he said "hello, my dear"
"I will not die a monster." Perhaps he's not evil, but opposed to Strange and MCU Peter, because he sees the people messing with the space-time continuum and the very fabric of reality as monsters.
You either die a monster or live long enough to see yourself become a hero
Or it's simply possible that this version of Ock never received the speech that turned him good again. His Spider-Man could of just done his best to shut it off without his help and in the aftermath Otto is left alone with the same beliefs in his head
@@MouthyProductions the whole video is about having hopes that they don't use that cop-out
Which makes sense because who wants to have everything in there life taken away from them. So they could be the villain in some way.
Or, as people have pointed out. The arms lights are growing red, which means Otto isn't in charge.
I don't mind the Iron Spider suit so much, but honestly the thought of a visual on the screen of Doc Ock just grabbing peter by all four of his spider-arms with Ock's arms, and just ripping them off his suit sounds so fucking awesome, I don't want to see anything else.
Maybe the whole thing is a big misdirect, and they're going to have Octavius actually work alongside Peter against the Sinister Six. I doubt the MCU would really be as ballsy as to try that, but it's not impossible.
EDIT: I should really stop commenting before I've finished the video. I would absolutely LOVE to see them go with your theory for the plot of this film.
i'm sick of nanomachine suits. i want actual fabric suit again
I’m almost certain that’s why Peter’s back in the Iron Spider suit, rather than his Far From Home suit like he is in other parts of the trailers.
The whole thing that made Spidey unique in the first place (rather than being a knock-off Iron Man with webs) was that he's always relied on his improvisation and wits than any high-tech gadgets. Peter is smart, I get that, but I think many people have overblown his genius. He's not Reed Richards smart - he has a college level education. Even when you take the later years of Parker Industries into consideration, he's still no Tony Stark, and I don't want a second Tony Stark. Hence why I think many people and myself have always been bothered by the suit. We don't want a second Superman. We don't want another Batman. Let's just let Spidey does his spidery thing, mutate with six arms and whatever, run out of web fluid and come out alive with his quick-thinking, that's Spidey's thing.
"Because when everyone's Super... no one will be."
@@whodatninja439 but nano is just simply stronger then a fabric suit though
@@Platinum199 But that's not what Spider-Man is about. He's just a kid who uses his own brute strength to save the day, he doesn't and shouldn't rely on the technology of others. What's the point in him having his powers if he's in a mechanical suit all day long. Completely disrespects the character and contradicts his moral values.
As much as I love the Iron Spider, I can’t deny how awesome it’d be for Doc Oc to rip it to shreds and Peter need to go back to his basic suit
Exactly
Pretty sure that's what will happen as it doesn't look like it's in the movie very much.
It will make Peter go to the red and gold suit
Seeing the new trailer, yeah i think it'll end with Doc Ock absorbing the nanites
well well well ur in luck
The fact that there wasn't a single mention of Iron Man in this trailer already made it look good.
Plot twist: all the villains come from a universe where Iron Man existed instead of Spiderman. He beat them all and was so smug about it that they never got any redemption and now they're in a new universe they want to kill Iron Man but since they can't cos he's already dead they settle for killing Spiderman
Thank you! I got sick of the whole Iron Man daddy issues Peter had in the last two films. I'm cautiously hoping that this film forces Peter to grow up, be a Spiderman who doesn't rely on the Stark suit and be his own man.
@@Missjunebugfreak just like the last two MCU Spider-Man films supposedly taught Peter to grow up and be his own man
@@ericlayton8888 yup, there's a clear progression in Peters character. He's becoming more and more independent and reliable.
@@ericlayton8888 lmfao
Remember the scene in Spider-Man 2 where Doc Ock attacked the doctors and nurses inside the hospital with his eyes close? That scene is gruesome considering the fact that Sam Raimi is a horror movie director since his Evil Dead fame.
Now, he's currently working on Dr. Strange: Multiverse of Madness so let's hope that he's giving it a shot.
no doc didnt do that, the arms themselves did. Did you not realise that the arms were controlling Doc rather than him controlling them?
@@iamjayrts25 I forgot to mention about the chip on his back that give him control over his mechanical arms.
In the Novel of Spider-Man 2 that scene is WAY more gruesome than it is in the movie
@@poweroffriendship2.0 but the protector got fried, so they had control as well
@@poweroffriendship2.0 did... you not pay attention to the movie? While spiderman is trying to shut the project down at the start of the film doc gets electrocuted and the chip breaks. later, when he talks to the arms, he realises he isnt controlling them and then he turns around and the camera shows him grabbing the broken chip. Also what did you think the whole "listen to me now" at the end of the film was?
just praying for a "Otto vs Norman" dynamic, it's my favorite thing about those two characters no matter what universe it is so to have the superior actors for them doing it would be a dream come true
In the leaked images they're friendly to each other so I dont think they'll be doing the dynamic sadly
@@kingkong9892 there are no leaked images of those two interacting at all.
@@NeuroticNav yes there is. And at first I thought they were fake but then i examined them further and they're legit
@@kingkong9892 they weren’t interacting in the pictures it was just shots of them separately
@@kingkong9892 but they weren’t interacting in the picture, it’s two separate pictures that look to be from the same scene, but separate nonetheless
Good news, guys
Thanks for reminding me that in context to the Sam Rami movie Green Goblin is actually kind of scary. I mean yes Spider-man was very inexperienced, but still up to that point he had no opposition that could take him on effectively. To see him nearly beaten by Green Goblin as a kid was shocking to me.
It's the Darth Vader problem. So many redemption arcs end with the villain sacrificing themselves. But they never have to deal with trying to remain good. Now we see what happens after the sacrifice. Can Doc Ock stay good, without having a relapse? That could be great character drama.
Darth Vader didn't kill the Emperor, Anakin Skywalker did. When he saw that his son was in danger he left the Sith.
I wanna see a movie with some epic shit someday, like the hero and villain constantly fighting and at the end after a long villain monologue, they get ready for battle, the villain is defeated and the bigger bad guy says to kill him, the hero declines and then they start to fight. The other villain goes to save the hero near death and gets impaled through the chest, then the hero comes along and finishes the big bad guy. After a while of the hero and others being happy, the villain comes back and decides to fight with the hero in the next installment. So basically return of the jedi but with darth vader surviving and helping luke
@@-haclong2366 He still sacrificed himself for the sake of good though. Didn't matter if he killed the emperor or not.
@@peedfarded he's saying Anakin Skywalker is the one who sacrificed himself, not Vader. While technically the same person, Vader is a completely different personality to Skywalker. When he threw Palpatine, that was just the real Anakin resurfacing
You should watch my new video essay about Tom Hollands Spiderman!
My theory: the sinister six has some good guys who will defect to Peter’s side (sandman, Doc Ock and possibly the lizard) Sandman also seems to be protecting Peter from electro’s lightning bolt in the trailer
To add on to that, maybe new villains join Goblin halfway through (Scorpion, Mysterio, and Vulture) allowing the S6 to feel more at home in the MCU rather than be all villains from another universe
@@bruhfeld9600 I doubt vulture would join him since he kept peters identity a secret
@@gekozilla7339 people keep forgetting this. Also the fact peter saved his life
I want Scorpion to show up. They hinted at him in Homecoming and he still hasn't appeared
@@jaimelannister1797 Honestly would've preferred Scorpion being the main villain, hunting Peter down and all because of what he did to him in Homecoming
I honestly think him showing up as a bad guy in the trailer might be a bait-and-switch. He might show up in the middle of a huge fight, recognize Spiderman, and call out to him (which obviously comes as a threat for Tom Holland spidey because he's never seen Ock before), but then end up helping him in the fight.
But everyone forgot that Peter Parker is spider-man, remember?
@@cube4547 well yes, in the Tom Holland universe. ''everyone in the world will forget''. So in Tom's world, but perhaps not in Toby's?
Actually in srsm 2 when doc had control of the arms in the middle it was white but when its evil ita red so in the trailer he is evil because the arms have the red dot
@@Geebinator True, but if i remember correctly, Doc got control back of the arms in the end without the control chip, but the arms still had the red dots.
@Legend X 600 then i am in the wrong
in the trailer you can see the sandman protecting peter from electro, so I still have some hope that the redemption arcs won't be completely ignored
That would be the most satisfying thing I’ve ever seen in the MCU honestly and I don’t every like TASM
Spss
@shrek agreed he is so underrated
You should watch my new video essay about Tom Hollands Spiderman!
This movie really feels to me like they noticed how popular Into The Spiderverse got and they're trying to do that again.
Could be fun though.
the spider verse has been a thing in the original comics for a loooooong time now. it has nothing to do with the animated miles movie, and more to do with how Sony plans on handling the IP moving forward
@@HowieGordonMusic It's been a thing in the comics for a long time, yes, but has been mostly relegated to that medium. The overwhelming success of Into the Spiderverse has shown that general audiences are both ok with and enjoy that rather mind-bending story as well, so now the studios are exploring where they can go with it.
@@HaussPray spiderverse is the lowest grossing Spiderman movie. So . No. Sony do this sell more merchandise and because of fans pressure
@@mukundhjeevan5511 yes but it has made huge bank in the box office by its self . But if they do a Spider-Man into the spider verse live action sort of movie that has amazing villains from the original then it actually might make more money than Endgame which is the highest grossing film along with Avatar known to date.
@@roxanne_ u don't understand the deal between Disney and sony. They do this make Spiderman in venom and the MCU at the same time
This sounds like in the Ultimate comics with Doc Ock not wanting to be a part of the Sinister Six anymore and Norman Osborn killing him and then going after Peter. I'd love it if they did that!
In the leaked photos he seems to be the one who forms the sinister 6
I'm guessing that when Peter is talking about people he wants to remember who he is, and the spell fucks up, it brings in people from other universes that knew who Spider-Man is. And that's why all these villains are showing up
Good theory, but Electro never knew Peter's identity
That makes sense, maybe Peter said something like "only the people I've been close with". probably in the middle of one of his ramblings. All messy. Like, I imagine him to be really nervous about What's about to happen and just now giving it a second thought. Basically whatever he wishes for applies to all 3 Peters
After the spell is finished everything seems completely fine at first. I can already see the music-lacking "did it work?" scene where everything seems exactly the same at first lmao. Then screams coming from outside the streets can be heard, probably coming from the havok caused by electro. For some reason now I'm sure electro will be the first one to appear, leaving the good stuff for later.
That would align with "be careful what you wish for"
@@alejandrochaves9950 oh... well shit lol
@@alejandrochaves9950 true
@@alejandrochaves9950 Yeah but keep in mind it isn't going to be the blue one from Andrew's, same actor, new Electro, so that doesn't really disprove the theory.
Why do I feel like doc Ock is the “ nicest “ of the Spider-Man villains? ( besides Tom Hardy’s venom )
I'd say sandman is the nicest, or at least the most good. Second to that would be Curt Connors(not from tasm, the raimi one)
Nah it easily goes to Sandman bro-
Sand dad is the most good for sure.
Well, considering that Sandman didn't even WANT to fight Spider-Man on multiple occasions in Spider-Man 3, I think it's safe to say Sandman's the nicest one! Plus, in the comic books, Sandman has even become a good guy/anti-hero and has helped out the good guys in the comics as well, it's also Sandman!
@@bandawin18 yessir
I mean its gonna be hard to ruin Doc Ock... When he drowned his experiment in the river he had no inhibitor chip. He could want to get back to his home universe and the arms would easily be able to persuade him
The theory I've been seeing a lot is that the arms control the corpse of Otto Octavius - if that's the way it happens in the movie, it'll be extremely dark and awesome.
@@vickie_g idk. Feige would want to go dark with this one because its a Sony film he can get away with probably more than Disney would let him but at the same time i feel like that would not make for a good story imo.
@@Niop_Tres the jokes dont break anything i would argue that the jokes help it feel more grounded because people sre constantly saying awkward things in real life to break tension. Dont forget Fiege was a big influence on the X-Men films and they werent very "jokey"
I bet it's goanna ruin his character. I know Doc Ock didn't had the chip at the end of Spider-Man 2, but he still had his conscience. The arms were controlling him but Peter's words were too personal for Doc. Doc Ock's redemption was one of the best scenes in the trilogy. The theme of _Spider Man 2_ is to give up things to do the right thing no matter what it is, even your dreams. Isn't that an insult of Spider-Man 2?!
Octavius was a brilliant scientist and a good man, not bad. If he appears in No Way Home, his very personal and touching conversation with Peter would mean nothing.
@@kumarsaurabh9216 it was easy for him to slip into madness the first time. Why wouldn't it be this time? THAT would ruin what his character was if they had him not slip back into doing what he needs to do at any cost.
Im fully aware of the theme of Spider-Man 2 that doesnt change the fact that if he was still alive that the arms would control him again. The longer they are with him the stronger the bond would be. Ofc Orto was intelligent like that. If he appeared only as a good guy again that would ruin everything that Spider-Man 2 stands for imo. This would only make that conversation mean a ton more than it already did
I think he people at Marvel have kept a great constant lore that makes sense and works, so is most likely this is an element that everyone is clearly not forgetting will be handled pretty well
This comment feels like you just pressed the autocomplete button on your phone
I'm scared
I see you everywhere
You are the new Justin y aren't u?
"8 Years Later"
Except acting like Loki from the first Avengers would have his character arc over the course of 50 minutes
Grammar is important my friend.
I feel like it could work if goblin tricks him into thinking that there's another version of his wife he could get back to if he works alongside the sinister 6
Good idea!
Maybe he forgets everything after drowning and the arms take control of his mind again. Then tobey would come and make him realise again so he will turn good again.
The tentacle lights are red in the trailer meaning they are in control
@@bosongod2830 Why bring him back to just do the same arc again?
@@rennythespaceguy7285 because it's fun lol, doesn't mean it's good, but it's fun
They better have a damn good explanation why Electro is no longer a member of the blue man group
Someone remembers his birthday, so he's no longer feeling blue
😂😂😂😂
@@slothoverlord4388 lmao
Easy he was able to control and master his powers allowing him to be able to hide is abillty and go back to looking human untill he decides to go out
@@gokussjgssj4818 Or someone gave him a present on his birthday.
Peter: wait everyone will forget?
Steven: Yes
Peter: but some need to know
Steven: so tell them again
Peter: oh. yeah. right!
Spider-Man : No Way Home
The End
*rolls credits*
Peter: tells he is Spider-man.
Everyone laughing how can a nerd like him be Spidey
He shows his powers
History repeats
Plot hole spotted lol
I come frome the future to tell you...
They didn't
I think when he says “Hello Peter” he’s talking to Tobys Peter and that’s gonna be the twist
It's not a twist, it's obvious
Bruh that’s what all comic TH-camrs have been saying.
Yea it’s the most logical conclusion. Since he has no idea who this version of Peter Parker is, it’s safe to assume he wouldn’t just say his name unless he knew it was Toby.
@@KonfusedFish I mean he could have seen a news paper lol. Dudes face is literally planted all over the city.
@@trajic9204 this happens after the spell wipes the world clean of Peter Parker
Lets just hope Doc Ock isnt an ex-Stark Industries employee that wants revenge!
It reminds me of TASM series where every single villain had to be an employee of Oscorp for some reason. Ok, except for Rhino but they created his suit so it's close enough.
@@spongemaster yeah...but it still makes sense since they're still from the Spiderman universe in comparison with the ucm spidey's villains where Stark created them and felt out of place🤔🤷♂️
ikr they must stop making it about iron man lol
He kind of already is in a way. In the raimi trilogy stark was originally gonna create otto’s arms but feigi told them not to say it in the movie cuz he was gonna use stark for the mcu
FFV: “I could do a video on the goblin fight”
Me: “do it!, no one’s stoping you”
I would leave a like on your comment, but I can't ruin the nice number it currently has.
HE DID NOT DIE A MONSTER.
Everyone be like "he looks like he's playing all the Matrix characters at once including the sentinels" but I think the outfit refers quite nicely to Dr Octopus' look in the comics and cartoons.
Matrix lol
I will point out he is from the early 2000s.
@@erickamakeeaina1649 yeah, even if it is a Matrix reference it works on a meta level.
To be fair, Doc Ock's usual comic look doesn't translate well into real life
@@hyperion3145 yeah, this is like the translatable version of that look.
Willem Dafoe is a perfect villian man, sometimes he's a normal, sometimes he's way scarier "You know how much I sacrificed. " And he can't be ruined either. Cause Joker is always evil.
Some of his moments are just so funny, even if he's not meant to be
"Willem Defore is the Joker we never had" - some random comment I saw on a spiderman video
@@Ewan_Tyler Batman voice actor kinda look like joker, its weird considering the one who used to play as the heroic jedi Lucas Skywalker voicing Joker voices.
You should watch my video essay about Tom Hollands Spiderman!
When Docs arms have a red light, that’s how you know the arms are in control (like they are in the trailer). When the arms have a white light, Ottos in control.
red light trailer fake out ;)
Unless Disney ignore those characteristics and make Doc Ock is in control
@@muhammadsoleh4725 Thing is, this is Sony's franchise - meaning that they likely know the characteristics since they used it for Spider-Man 2.
Yes that's true. But it can be fake out
I was thinking they were doing the ole cgi thing
Cant lie, Doc Oc has been THE best Spiderman villain to date.
Green goblin says hello
@@abnercliff9624
I’m talking about in the movies. Sorry I didn’t specify that.
@@kingofhearts1072 definitely best movie villain, with Mysterio at a close second
@@abnercliff9624
I agree ☝️
i fucken hate this acter... he jus an ugli old man
I mean, this is a movie about the multiverse; the villains we get in No Way Home could easily be alternate versions of the villains we saw, villains which never had their redemption, or were pulled into Holland's universe before they could get their redemption. Even if they're full on evil I don't think this necessarily ruins their character arcs in the other movies
This works well! Especially with Doc Ocks new black outfit/glasses he looks like an evil alternate version of Spider-Man 2's Doc Ock. Considering Electro isn't going to blue, this theory makes sense. I would love to see comic book accurate Green Goblin (Green and Purple suit, but in the style of Dafoes power ranger get up)
this theory makes sense thanks to the end of Loki
I think, since Doc Ock knows Spider-Man's name is Peter, this'll be him from a timeline in which he killed his Spider-Man at the end of the film instead of being redeemed by him.
Yeah thats not what he said. It would then be arbitrary and pointless. Like Ralph Bohner.
Well the only counter argument is the Alfred Molina himself said that Doc Ock’s story will continue right when he was in the bay. If that’s the case either two things happened. One, the trailer was lying and Doc Ock is actually their ally. Or two, Otto might be manipulated by Osborn into going after Spider-Man.
I feel like Ock could be a fake out. That “hello Peter” could be him saving Spidey instead of attacking him. Superior Spider-Man helped out during the Spiderverse comic, so Otto being on the side of the good guys isn’t too far fetched. Also makes room for another villain (possibly a vulture/Mysterio return, or even Martin Li if that is in fact FEAST we see in the trailer). The only other way if there’s no fake out or double agent plot is if Otto is convinced he has the moral high ground for some reason and thinks he’s doing the right thing for the world, but going about it the wrong way like Killmomger did.
Sidenote: I feel like the iron spider could also be fake footage. If not, then i feel it’ll be torn apart (at least I hope so)
Agreed. If it truly picks up Otto from the end of Spider-Man 2, I imagine he’d be more inclined to help Peter than beat him around. Same with Sandman. I don’t think we’ll see the Sinister Six as an actual team of villains but rather the people from the lineup making an appearance.
@@ghstgvts that’s a good point, I hadn’t considered that! Sinister 6 can only work with the pure evil villains if it’s an actual team. Wouldn’t be surprised if scorpion makes an appearance as well. We already saw Gargan in Homecoming, and with Jameson now in the picture he could get his scorpion powers from a similar means as the comics
I want it so that this Doc Ock is from a universe where he actually beat Spider-man in Spider-man 2, and the explosion from his machine created some kind of portal to the MCU universe
That would be cool but that will probably only happen if he changes during the movie because his arms were glowing red so they were in control so he could be from a universe where he killed spider man and just be excited to see him again or something
@@TH-camchannel-sb7mv I’d love a true villain ock, but he’s right. Feels arbitrary to cast Alfred if that’s the case
Theory:🤔 he was sucked into his invention as he was redeeming himself… been stuck floating around like Antman with nothing to keep him company but the robotic arms driving him insane = bad guy doc oc
How does he breathe underwater
@Kyle Maundrell Well I'm glad he doesn't get the chance to frown.
that still retcons his character arc and takes away his redemption. itd be an explanation, ya, but it still takes it away.
it’d be fun if he was insane, but still “good,” just unhinged because of his arms lol
@@CEDEREL how would it take away from his redemption? He still sacrificed himself once he saw the flaws in his ways, he didn’t plan on surviving he was sucked into his experiment and drove insane … to an extent it makes his story more tragic imo since he was trying to right his wrong last time we saw him… also the color from that ball of energy look familiar to you?…. Maybe the same type of energy the time stone is powered by
@@CEDEREL Ya but he is a villain, he is supposed to turn bad again somehow if he comes back
*all 3 spidermen are on a subway
Andrew: "You look kinda nervous man."
Tobey: "Yeah...my last train ride wasn't great..."
Tom: *visual confusion
Keaton once said “keep your expectations low and you will never be disappointed”
I kept my expectations really low before going to see Far From Home and I didn't feel disappointed.
I felt insulted.
@Spider-Man Finally someone else who doesn't expect anything from this movie, especially after Far From Home. Thank you. I feel less alone, now.👍
@@HughJass901 Like these movies if you want, I won't judge you for that but I can tell you it's not a "me problem". I'm usually a pretty generous spectator so if the movie is too awful for me, chances are it's not my fault but it's because of the writing, the lack of any artistic effort and the overall lazyness and utter incompetence I felt throughout the movie. It was the first time I actually felt insulted watching a super hero movie (and I watched Batman & Robin which was at least fun, no matter how bad it was). It was also the first of seeing a movie in theaters that got me to keep repeating "shut up, shut up, just please shut up". The only thing I can't criticize was the acting because that's the only quality that is consistent in every MCU movie.
And now, they're resurrecting better villains from better movies who already had their conclusion just for fan-service. And to think people criticized a movie like Ready Player One because of fan-service (even though all references were meant to tell a story and message) but they will just eat up all of that obvious pointless fan-service in No Way Hop and already call it the "BEST MOVIE EVER".
Sorry for the long text but to make it short : Me not liking a film might be a me problem. That's not the case here.
@@geekforeverpixelgamingsurl5007 you sound like the worst person ever to watch a film with, you went cinema to watch a spider man film in the mcu, and you felt insulted ? Ive never read anything more dramatic in my life, you’re very bitter for some reason towards this film, I can’t seem to understand why, it’s shot really nice, the acting is great, the story may not be as good as past spider man films but it still makes sense in the story line of Peter Parker within the MCU, it’s crazy that you wrote a paragraph and didn’t actually say anything about why the film was insulting or what about it was bad?
@@geekforeverpixelgamingsurl5007 you also don’t know anything about what this next films story line will contain, it’s so easy to judge something before you watch it, it’s easier to just be negative and toxic towards it because it may not be your thing? Just fucking wait till the films out, if you don’t like it move on, if you do like it then fuck yeah, your outlook on films is abit dramatic
When he says, “hello, Peter.” He’s definitely talking to tobey’s Peter/spidey
Yep.
I thought so at first, but not anymore.
No, Otto doesn't recognize Tom's Peter, but he recognizes the Spider-Man suit (my guess is Peter will be wearing the FFH suit when Otto said it), even though it's a bit different compared to Raimi suit.
Also, I think Tobey and Andrew won't be introduced until the full Sinister Six gets introduced, at least. My guess is they will come when Tom's Peter and Doctor Strange gets pushed back by Sinister Six.
If that were the case, there would be no way Otto would be talking to Tobey's Peter at that time.
@@anonymouspokemon4623 I doubt Otto would be that confident that Tobey is the one in the FFH suit. He’d definitely be confused as to why Tobey’s suit looks so different last time they met.
@@anonymouspokemon4623 I’m glad that’s not what’s happening though. Lines from the script got leaked over 5 weeks ago, and in those lines contained plenty of things that were said word for WORD in the trailer, even down to small Dr. Strange lines about messing up the spell. In there were also lines from Willem Dafoe’s Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Electro, Tobey and Andrew. There’s a line that reads “That stuff comes out of you?!” Clearly referring to them speaking on Tobey’s spiderman having organic webbing when the last two have mechanical web shooters . This movies gonna be really ambitious.
@@anonymouspokemon4623 there’s also a heartfelt scene of Tobey explaining to Tom Holland’s spidey about great power and responsibility, and explaining essentially what it means to be Spider-Man. I’m excited
New trailer makes it look you are getting what you want.
His villainous motive is that he wants to go home. many of the others are either insane or jaded enough to go into villainy, but Otto's arc should have him conflicted by his actions, but ultimately willing to do whatever it takes to build a way home.
How would fighting peter help that tho
@@Hensley_Jb could be that Peter is trying to maintain the new world state and Otto is trying to fix it. Brings them at odds
Huh. Now it makes sense to be called No Way Home.
You should watch my new video essay about Tom Hollands Spiderman!
They're keeping sandman as a good guy, as hes protecting peter, so i have trust that they wont fuck up doc ock
The red dots on doc ock shows he is STILL controlled.
Not to mention these aren’t the EXACT same from the raimi films but variants of them, which might’ve been why he looks a bit different
Like say a what if doc ock didn’t die or something like that.
@@skelebonez1349 they are the exact same they've already confirmed that
@@skelebonez1349 the arms bickered white to red in raimi's before he got sucked.
You should watch my video essay about Tom Hollands Spiderman!
@@skelebonez1349 Since theres an actual multiverse now i dont see why there wouldnt be a different version of the doc that redeemed himself in the raimi movie. I wouldnt be disappointed either
The visual of Doc Ock ripping Iron Spider’s legs off is so fucking cool, I need to see it
"You've ever seen what young scientists do to spiders?" *rips off Iron Spider legs*
Yes like he grabs him with the tentacles and rips them off one by one then he throws him
I really like the idea of Ock skinning the Iron Spider suit off Peter. The scene would probably look like this:
Ock: This suit was handed to you on a silver platter of wealth. It doesn’t show who you really are, and that’s why you don’t deserve it.”
* *Ock starts tearing the suit apart* *
MCU Peter: “N-no!”
And then green goblin throw his pumpkin bomb to MCU Spiderman's face and beat tf out of him to unconscious
I feel like yall just has wants to see Tom Holland get beat up lol.
The new trailer seems to imply this case more now
Saw the film. I think it’s safe to say he wasn’t ruined. That’s my opinion.
Him and William Defoes goblin where the best two parts of the movie
Yeah but I think you could argue that they ruined sandman and lizard though. Lizard doesn’t really do anything but honestly, I don’t know anybody that really cared about his character. Sandman going against the other Spider-Men doesn’t make sense but at least he wasnt really trying to kill them.
@@Deathpool_04 everyone cares about the lizard watch your mouth. Lizard gang 🦎
@@Deathpool_04 sandman going against the other spidermen did make sense. He said he wanted to go home. He didn’t care about healing himself or anyone else he just wanted to wrap this up. He came for the box to push it will everyone else just wanted to destroy it.
@@stevenmark4407 I haven’t met anybody that actually liked the lizard. People cared Dr. Connors but not the lizard. All that thing did in the movies was try to turn people into lizards.
As for sandman, I still don’t think it makes sense. Him and the Spider-Men had the same goal. They were trying to save everyone and sending them back. He would’ve gotten back home quicker if he had just helped them cure everyone first.
Peter: When mysterio revealed my identity my world fell apart
Dr strange: I missed the part where that’s my problem
Dr strange: gonna cry ?
Little Tony junior gonna cry?
You should watch my video essay about Tom Hollands Spiderman!
Ahaha yes doctor strange does feel out of character tho
I was thinking exaaaactly the same 😅
Still THE greatest line in all superhero movies: "The power of the sun in the palm of my hand."
Please don't ruin him Marvel, please.
It's the best quote cuz I think there doc ock is getting a little mad xD with power I mean
The Greatest to you, however the Dark Knight series has too many gems for that to be the greatest in my opinion
@@litman5584 no
@@litman5584 no
You should watch my new video essay about Tom Hollands Spiderman!
Goblin won’t be the leader. Doc Ock has historically been the leader of the S6. Plus he’s the only villain to appear clearly in the first trailer. He’s also not good, because the lights on his arms are red, instead when he redeems himself and has white lights.
I think Dafoe confirmed that Green Goblin would form the Sinister Six.
@@wafflemanofficial3130 Dafoe hasn't said a word on this film.
You should watch my new video essay about Tom Hollands Spiderman!
I don't think he will necessarily lose his entire arc, I doubt he's just gonna be evil for the sake of being evil, peter and strange are likely going to try and send these characters back to their original universe, meaning back to where they died, I assume most of the villains goals in this movie will just be to stay alive, and a few, like electro, green goblin and if he appears, the vulture, could end up having personal vendettas against their own spider men, but characters like Octavius will likely just be trying to survive
5:22 "... then you might as well not have bothered." Kinda like Pietro in Wanda-Vision, huh? I think they've sufficiently demonstrated their willingness to just pull an expectation-subverting "Bohner" on the audience for the sole purpose of amusing themselves.
This.
This is exactly why I’m afraid of No Way Home. I got really excited with the trailer… but, as you say, they’ve shown that they don’t care about characters or stories anymore. Heck, I can hardly recognize Spider-Man now, between all the changed characters around him and his high tech suit… Spider-Man & Marvel movies now seem to only care to make money without taking care of the stories they’re telling and the characters they’re portraying (which was the reason they made such great movies in the first place). They have us fans making all these elaborate theories when in reality it seems like they don’t give a damn.
@@kidart89
They've successfully sold this movie to the masses on a nostalgic promise. Need I say more?
They stopped caring when they realised people would buy shit they already bought. The Force Awakens is A New Hope repackaged. Half-assed remakes of 80's franchises have been a consistent hallmark of 2010's Hollywood. Now they've made this, with half it's content appeal coming straight from 2004 or earlier.
No, Pietro was in Wanda vision for Wanda to get over her greif of her brother, maybe they did add the Fox version of him for a bit of publicity but atleast they put a reason behind it.
That aside I'm not a fan of how they treated his character at the end of the show.
@@Tharja-iBW A bit of publicity? You have to be trolling.
The fake Quicksilver in Wanda Vision might have had a sound narrative reason for being included, but casting Evan Peters was a *very* calculated, and intentional, publicity stunt hoping fans would shit bricks thinking that the *Evan Peters* Quicksilver was being introduced to the MCU. They even styled Evan Peters to look EXACTLY like his Fox appearance. And it worked -- for an entire week, the only thing being talked about was how Marvel was introducing Mutants, how the Fox X-Men were being carried over, what it meant for the future, etc. All of that, just for it to blow up in the fans faces a week later.
FFV: I want them to be true to the Rami version of this character.
also FFV: I want Doc Ock to rip Peter's dumb spider-iron suit to mcfreaking pieces
Honestly haha
Here's how it makes sense. In his moment of unconsciousness, the tentacles intelligence took back over. You can tell they are in control as the lights for them are red instead of white
that's exactly what i was thinking, that the arms are in complete control of otto's basically-dead body like they are in the comics
I feel like it could be that either his arms or Osborn are manipulating him. Mostly because either of them could convince Otto to be evil again by either saying they need his help to go back to their home dimension, or tempt him with the possibility of going to a dimension where his wife didn’t die.
Orrr it could be plain trailer manipulation
You should watch my new video essay about Tom Hollands Spiderman!
there is a theory that when strange says "the entire world will forget peter parker is spider-man" when he get distracted and it changes to something like "worlds that forgot spiderman" meaning in these universes the villains won and killed spider-man. and that could be a great way to have these villains but not ruin the character development.
In that case why bring the old actors? Fans want to see villians from the actual raimi and webb trilogy universes not variants but your theory might be right
@@finqimalo4541 Uh, no. No one wants to see the OG villains because they're literally dead lmao. It's impossible for the original ones to come back because they're all dead.
But if you do that then the characters are variants
NO I want Tobey and Garfield Spidermen!
@@Xeno574 Alfred Molina literally said his character was taken out of his dimension right before death. So clearly that is what they’re doing.
William Defoe doesn’t need a goblin mask. He already looks like a goblin just needs the green skin.
Check out the film "Streets of Fire" Defoe looks crazy in that one lol
but he couldnt do the combat scene he need a stunt so he need a mask
See I still think these are going to be slight variants where they can change them.
yeah because they died in their movies
Ya Full flat Videos really seemed to missed that. And now his expectations are wayyyyy too high
Yea doc ock could be a variant where the arms took over and he’s still evil
And I'm ok with that 😅
@@XDarkBrotherhoodHD Your expectations are just highly likely wrong. Alfred Molina already confirmed it was the same version
It would be epic if Doc Ock comes back, sees Peter, goes "Hello, Peter..." and then Peter, thinking that he's back as his villain form, but then he acts as an ally to Peter instead of a villain xD
that’s exactly what I was thinking of 💀
Thats some Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 Kinda Bullshit
Absolutely love it
Doc Oc secretly being good sounds pretty interesting but in the trailer, his legs are red which if you watch the second Spider-Man movie you can see they are red when he's evil and white when he's good.
You can easily change that for the trailer to throw people off from figuring out the movie.
People forget they did this HARD on Infinity War and Endgame.
@@iSaintRichie23 0 po ol
If you remember when the arms are red that means the arms are in control not otto
My thing is, I hope they don't CGI his mechanical arms. In Spider-Man 2, they used puppeteers to move them around; and only used CGI to enhance the fights. But knowing Marvel, they will CGI everything.
@@triplehakasarajaysolderbro2915 Yep🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I like otto being a double agent a lot! Preserving his character arc while being the evil menace which the script writer need for being in the movie
Probably not but I'm definitely sure he's dead but the octopus arms is keeping him alive.
@@JashAnon ok don´t you think that´s a little bit too dark for sony / disney?
I think Otto is unconscious and the arms are controlling his mind since we can see in spiderman 2 that the arms are able to manipulate Otto's mind to a certain extent
@@NeroG4ming I doubt since we already had a darker moment in Disney MCU already. Remember Guardians of the Galaxy? Ego gave Quill’s mother cancer because he just wanted to and made Quill suffer.
@@JR-bf3bu i think the spell strange did affected the whole multiverse, so doc forgot peter is spiderman, making him turn evil again. People aren't mentioning this and acting like only people forget tom holland as spiderman
This is actually the only MCU movie that's ever made me feel gitty and super excited. Endgame and Infinity War are close seconds
The problem is that in this movie, we're not excited about the main MCU characters.
truuuuue. me tooo
@@anonymouspokemon4623 right. im only excited for the ogs. to me the mcu characters are good but they are too artificial. they tell jokes every fckng 5 seconds.
Because marvel shines when they're doing wacky and crazy shit, which is why most marvel movies are really generic and shows like loki and movies like infinity war and endgame, and the guardians movies are actually better than most of their others. At least that's my opinion.
You should watch my video essay about Tom Hollands Spiderman!
Electro:*is about to hit spider man with a lightning bolt*
Doc ock:*throws spider man away just in time before he can get hit*
Electro: HOW THE HELL DID YOU LET HIM GO?!?!
Doc ock: butter fingers
MCU Aunt May being hot means that we can finally see a live action Ock x May.
Ock may marriage scene? 🤷♂️
Hell yeah!
“Aunt May and I, we’re gonna have a helluva time!”
I have that comic, spidey is pissed as hell he has to call his enemy uncle lol.
This guy: *presents theory*
Marvel: Did this guy just predict the whole movie?
What If Alfred Molina’s Doctor Octopus is the Secret Hero of Spider-Man: No Way Home? That way, his redemption arc in Spider-Man 2 remains unchanged!
I can see that, happening.
People pointed out that otto is in control when the lights on his arms are white but the arms are in control if thier red. Only way otta got in control again in Spider-Man 2 is because he got electrocuted leading him being in control for a little
@@gokussjgssj4818 ya so he can be truley evil in the beginning maybe remeet toby spidy which gives him the strenght to overpower his arms again. He remembers the moment he had with og Peter.
Well lets hope for best...but lets not hope too much that in the end we get disappointed
@@gokussjgssj4818 that could be another marvel trailer misdirect
Doc Oc was the best, most humane and tragically relatable semi-villain from the entire Spiderman series. Change my mind. Sandman comes in a close second.
I agree with thy opinion
Harry?
@@RealUlrichLeland harry was more of a good turned evil turned good lol but still I get what you’re saying
@@source.trustmebroo That's definitely what makes that trilogy so good, every character isn't just a straight hero or villain, they are first and foremost people. Like you could easily argue black suit Spiderman was a villain, so really you could empathise with every hero/villain
@@RealUlrichLeland bro that’s facts, good perspective, each villian really do be a normal person and even mysterious in spiderman 4 woulda been the announcer guy from the first movies wrestling match
I'm hoping Doc Ock is going to be a bit erratic, where he's in control of the arms sometimes and where the arms are controlling him sometimes. It makes for interesting plot points and ample narrative possibilities.
iknr.. otherwise it would be just the arms controlling a corpse
"People seem to prefer the Tobey Maguire movies, Disney"
"Back to Formula"
They didn’t
4:15 This may be a bit random, but that was a really good point about how unique of a fight that is. Most superhero fights are fast and hard to follow, but the power from this scene comes from how slow it is. Not to mention, you can see Spidey trying everything he's got to stand his own, only getting lucky at the end.
@Marko Botic i mean the other 2 maybe not as strong as the first one but they are also strong Andrew's peter simply held a car in the air then tossed it with 1 arm and not to sure about Holland since im not interested in his films
Your double agent idea is interesting. My theory is that these are just gonna be alternate versions of the characters. So this will probably be an evil version of Otto before Peter redeems him and before he makes his ultimate sacrifice. I’m worried that this movie will have too many villains in it, and the writers aren’t going to have enough screen time to give us satisfying character arcs
Electro, Rinoh, Scorpio and Lizard will probably have little to no focus
Vulture, Otto, Sandman and Goblin will probabbly be the oens with more fleshed out stories
@@jesusramirezromo2037 electro is in the movie too,and he is part of the comic sinister six,so he's definitely pretty important
That was the problem in the 3rd Spider-Man and now we have even more villains
I think doc o’clock will be from a universe where Peter dies
@@jesusramirezromo2037 a big chunk of why Spider-man 3 was such a mess was trying to cram Venom, Harry Goblin and Sandman in.
ASM2 struggled under Harry Goblin and Electro (with a bit of Rhino and Sinister 6 set up).
You're saying have the focus on 4 main villains and have 4 back up villains. Plus 2 main heroes (Spidey and Strange) and 2 back up heroes (2 extra spideys) and 2 support characters (Ned and MJ)...
This needs to be as long as the Snyder Cut if it is going to do all of that and not be a mess...
I really hope they're not trolling us again and we're not going to end up with another "Ralph Bohner".
Weirdly enough, that’s still more respectful than what Fox did with Quicksilver last time in Dark Phoenix.
This is why I tell everyone to keep their expectations in check. There is zero evidence the Peters will appear, we don't know of which the context that these villains will appear, etc.
@@PathBeyondTheDark there’s a shit ton of evidence
@@PathBeyondTheDark There is the leaked Target toys of NWH Toby figures also real set photos of Andrew and Toby for NWH.
@@PathBeyondTheDark Toby and Andrew are absolutely in it you can cross that off
Given these questions, i wonder how they will tackle Lizard's mysterious ending from TASM, same with Sandman leaving on good terms with Tobey, what will their motivations be for joining the Sinister Six? Or they could just be really lazy and make everyone just "look-alike variants" of the classic villains we love. Kinda like how they shafted Fox fans with that Quicksilver bull in WandaVision, that was a really dumb move.
In the trailer it seems that sandman is protecting spider from electro judging how there's a wall of sand.between lightning and a shadowy figure, so maybe it won't be a cop out.
@Simu liu 😵💫 why is electro yellow and not blue. Also in the leaked images he still has human skin just has electric powers
@@kingkong9892 because they are making him comic accurate. It's still the same actor
You should watch my new video essay about Tom Hollands Spiderman!
I don't think we've got anything to worry about. Molina was the best actor to ever take on the role of Ock, and as long as he brings that same talent as he did all those years ago, seeing him in that character again will be nothing short of amazing 😊
More like the ONLY actor to ever take the role.
Isn’t he literally the only doc ock actor?
@@SeelsOfElation there is one in the end of tasm 2 too
@@SCube123 Only CGI arms that are hung up, there was no actor
@@retrohero2762 he was the one who showed all the Vulture wings, his tentacles, Rhino suit, etc..... he was the one who was creating the sinister six
Considering the spell causes everyone to forget who Spider-Man is, wouldn’t that include Doc Octopus to forget in the multiverse where perhaps he didn’t sacrifice himself - thus setting up the plot of his intentions.
It would make sense for *everyone* to forget but even then it kinda ruins his character developement if it's just as is most of the movie (and his final change of heart) never happened
The spell messes up though. We don't know if it even manages it's original intention, and even if it does, it was supposed to only affect Tom's world. The "Hello, Peter" also wouldn't make too much sense, as he seems happy when he says it, which would most likely just be him seeing Spiderman, or not the first encounter between the two.
@@KaseyC. He says "hello Peter" sinisterly. He's not glad to see him.
I would find it interesting if Doc ock came back from the dead and was a good guy. Based on the trailer the green goblin could be destroying the bridge and Doc Ock is also trying to save people. Casually greeting peter as they go about there work.
Alot of bad sequels over the years have trained me in the art of not accepting bad sequels as actual canon.
It's good for the soul. :)
Same
But it's kinda living in denial imo and combined with low effort cynical nerd comments it becomes annoying after some times like those " lol i hate this movie so it doesn't exist and I don't care but let me tell you how much I don't care for the 10th time"
You can like and dislike whatever you want but this type of mentality annoys me. I think fans take canon stuff too seriously.
@@a.f9234 I get what you mean and I could probably explain a bit more. What I ment was that I just see films as they were intened when they were made. So I ignore whatever plot sequels may retcon or change later. If Ock sucks in this new film, I don't think about that when I rewatch Spider-Man 2 because when that film was made, that was intened to be the end of Ock's story. Don't know if any of this changes your opinion on my thoughts but still, just wanted to be more clear about it.
I do that with pacific rim lol
@@a.f9234 Yeah but on the other hand it’s also 100% not real al and harms no one if you don’t really accept it.
My Theory for making Doc Oc a "Villain" in the No Way Home movie. He could be pissed that Tom Holland's Spider-Man messed up his timeline and he's out to rectify that and turn things back to the way it was, even if it means he dies.
A good study into Otto's mind is the superior spiderman comic series, which is a fantastic comic in and of itself, as we can see Otto and his reasoning in total
THEY DID NOT RUIN IT!
I really think these villains should be variants from universes where they defeated or killed their Spider-Men. These villains who were never redeemed and “won” would feel obligated to kill other Spider-Men and conquer their universes.
hate that, just let them be who we know them to be
Exactly, that makes more sense than picking the exact villains from the previous movies as it will ruined their character arcs
I liked the idea of the sinister 6 being: green goblin, doc oc, lizard, electro, vulture and mysterio. 2 villians from all 3 of the universes
Main thing to focus on with Ock is that his tentacles glow red, in Spider-Man 2 that only happened when they were in control, whereas they glow white when Otto is in control.
My theory is when we first see Osborne and Otto they'll recognise each other, Osborne will ask about the tentacles, Otto (Not knowing Osborne was Goblin) explains the AI and how he stays in control using the inhibitor chip, Goblin will then use Electro to overcharge the chip and give the arms control of Ock.
That way you explain the chip to the audience who haven't seen Spider-Man 2, and you get Ock back as a villain without ruining his arc (though you do repeat the same arc).
Absolutely brilliant idea to make Doc Ock a double agent! He could be the villian like they want him to be but then also maintain his arc from Spiderman 2! Absolutely perfect and I hope this is actually the case
Thank you!!