Ahhhh, precious Edsel memories. When a lot of my high school friends were spending money on getting high, I was spending money on rebuilding E400’s, 352’s and 390’s. I think I made the wiser choice, and obviously you’re on the right path!
In about 1958, I was a hang-arounder at my neighbors and all the guy's 6-8 years older were talking about guy by the name of Richard. Someone they knew that had what was called a 'Wildfire', fiberglass I think sports car. He had bought this in California. Richard came by soon afterwards and it was loud and really impressive to a 13 year old. This thing had a stroked 430 and a tri-power carb set up. It had a nice cam, drive shafts for exhaust. I've never forgot it. It had zero traction. 2nd gear starts and all smoke and noise but we thought it was the baddest thing we'd ever seen. Way cooler than today's rigs.
Woah! 3 months??? If it was more than 3 days, there was war with the machine shop, back in my day. How things have changed! Are there really that many people rebuilding motors nowadays, that they are so backed up? I expected it to be the opposite, with modern engines going to 250-300 thousand miles without a rebuild. Back in my day, a typical engine would need a full rebuild any time between 70,000 and 100,000 miles and when we dropped a head off, there would be several similar ones finished and awaiting collection, often with associated bottom ends alongside them. I’m retired from all that nowadays, because my life moved on and I diversified, but I still take an interest and keep my hand in, when I can. It’s been over 20 years since I rebuilt an engine, though. I wonder whether I’ll ever do another… If it means months of hanging about, probably not. At my age time is too precious.
I never tore down a V8 with the intention of getting it running again, but I’ve done a few straight 4s and 6es in my time. I used to work on the floor, as a teenager, but graduated to a sturdy bench in my 20s. Watching you flip that monster, single handed, I’m regretting my oft repeated decision not to buy an engine stand and spend the money on something more important. Vs are much more awkward than straights and also more prone to leaks, particularly in the valley, so I think I dodged a bullet, only ever playing with scrap ones. I used to dread them coming in for routine servicing, because they had a much higher risk of callbacks. There was also always one plug that didn’t want to come out and it was invariably the one that had the trickiest access. Manufacturers book time was always hopelessly optimistic, too, which I suspect might have led to my colleagues cutting corners, trying to save time. I’m enjoying watching this rebuild. Given how unpopular the Edsel was, I’m glad one has made it to the point where someone is saving it.
I enjoy tearing the engines apart to find the faults and get them corrected. It's a great stress reliever. Can't hardly wait for the next video to go on to the next adventure. Thanks for posting.
Great job. For many years I did my own work ,on the cars and trucks My Wife and I owned. I miss those days and hate the new mess they have made of them. I liked and subscribed to your channel.
When busting lose those mains, or any well torqued bolt, turn it so it's perpendicular to the ground... That way, you can use gravity and your body weight to 'help' with less muscle, or effort used... Also, it helps keep the engine stand stationary so you're not fighting that as well... Thanks for sharing... Keep up your awesomeness...!
I really enjoy your channel. Just one guy doing all this. It'll be so fun watching you get the engine rebuilt, installed to get ole' Ed back on the road again!
I have a Lincoln 430 engine that I disassembled this past summer. 56000 actual miles but not started for 45 years. I plan to rebuild it also. I have another 61 engine still intact that is stuck. I rebuilt a 63 430 engine about 10 years ago and got all parts with no problem Now I realize that parts are getting hard to find. If you need something let me know. With two engines I will def have extra parts. One thing hard to find is the 7/8 hose between the water pump and intake manifold. It is NAPA part # 601 which is available by the foot. Of Course you only need about 3 inches but at least they are available.
I see the mechanic used a valve compresser to remove the keepers, (there is a short cut) Yes, restore the valve train to burn unleaded, Edsel engines were often substituted for Ford engines in stock cars, however the Chevy Engines were hard to beat! Great Job!
When I was a kid I remember passing a brand new Edsel on the highway. Come to think of it, this happened in Michigan. I think it was the same color. Maybe this is the same car lol.
Wouldn’t that be cool! I always wish there was a Timelapse video I could buy of a car sitting in a field. It would be so cool to watch how it rolled off the line and somehow eventually got forgotten about and nature took it over.
Our machine shop didn’t like to be handed a bag of bits, like that. They charged extra, to discourage it. Not sure why, but I suppose if they’re handed a complete assembly, at least they know everything came in the door and didn’t get lost in the workshop. Made life easier for us, because we only stripped valves if we were replacing one, or lapping them in as part of a head gasket job. For sleeving or reseating, or unleaded inserts, the machine shop did all that and put it back together too.
Excellent, and I'm following your progress. You're very knowledgeable, experienced, and methodical. Great shop, too. Was enjoying a bedtime snack while watching, and then your dog licked its butt from about 29 minutes to 31 minutes into the video. Had to set the snack aside and scroll past that. TMI ;) But it's a beautiful lab!
Would have been nice if you had given a description of the engine ie: size hp etc. I have been building engines over 50 years and I have never seen an old cast iron engine “sleeved” as you said however you can sleeve pretty much any engine. To me it looks like the 410 Edsel engine. Keep going it could get interesting.
@@Charger1908 thanks for watching! Sorry about that, I explained more in episode 1 where I introduced the car as a whole but I’ll try to explain more in future videos.
Those are thermostats in the block at the water pump. Early MEL had them. The bearing are babbit and copper with a steel backing. Top layer is not a hard layer. In operation should be a wedge of oil between the journal and bearing. Most bearing wear is at start up. Bearings are worn out and likely crank will need to be reground. Is typical worn out engine, but looks like a decent core.
Strictly speaking the middle "copper" layer isn't just copper. Typically it's copper combined with about 20% lead. Lead doesn't dissolve in copper so when the molten metal solidifies it has lots of little globs of pure lead in it, they act as solid lubricant if the oil fails to prevent metal-to-metal contact and the babbitt or tin layer gets worn through. Helps avoid seizing the engine, though if you've worn through the babbitt the bearing is on its last legs...
@@rockhoundingeasternwashing5308 right! Sorry for the delay! I’ve been working on it steady since the last video but have limited time between day job, side job and property chores. Can’t wait to keep moving forward.
What the hell is a "3 stroke"? All '59 Edsels used 223 cubic inch in line Ford 6 cylinder engines, the 292 Ford Y block V8, or a Ford 332 W block V8, or the same 361 W block of the '58 short wheelbase Edsel models. All regular Ford 4 cycle/stroke engines. If you are talking about a DKW or SAAB 3 cylinder, 2 stroke/cycle engine, you should mention that to save confusion.
i believe that's what was referred to as a MEL motor, (mercury, edsel, lincoln, ) they were also available in some thunderbirds and some trucks as well not high horsepower, but had a lot of torque, you know how Ford was always engineering !!!
Rule number one of every good car restoration video is have your dog in the video. Number two, pet your dog give a name, and invite it into your videos. Everybody loves dogs or at least I do.
Thank you for being you. You’re a queen. A you’re a keen young fella who likes automobiles but you are approaching many of the items you’re doing making life difficult for yourself. One is why didn’t you pull off the pan at the very beginning? Electrical is the most important I’m an automotive electrical mechanical engineer, I did a course that took years for the military. Thanks for being you buddy. I enjoying what you’re doing but you’re making me sweat when you don’t have to regards Alan from down under.
Ford FE 332 to I'm no sure but could be as high as 4i60. Bore and stroke main difference between most Edsel and Ford motors. Friend in 66 had an Edsel with a 410, that thing would haul xss, the good old days.
You need a solid breaker bar crack your bolts . Beating your hand on something with no leverage will result in bad body joints in many short years of your life. Get the corect tools. Makes life easy. 👍👍✌️🇬🇧
You mentioned nose head bolts I don't know for sure if this is true maybe something to research but I've always been told that when you redo an engine you put new head bolts in because twerking them stretches the boat
No need to use sleaves for this engine. Just have it bored out to the minimum size needed to true up the cylinders. Most will true up at 30 over. Then get new 30 over pistons to put on your old rods. I myself have never had to have one bored more than 40 over.
The 58 Edsel with the 430 Super Marauder was the first American production engine to make 400 HP. It was only made in that configuration for 58 and was detuned for 59.
You mentioned the bearings had the hard surface worn off. That is actually a soft surface made to wear away to prevent wearing away the hard steel crankshaft. It looks like a very high mileage engine that needs a re-bore, larger pistons and rings to match the new bore, and new bearings. I'd also replace the oil and water pumps, and the timing gear and chain. A valve job will be needed, as well. The 2 smaller Ford wheelbase Edsel models in '58 had a 361 cubic inch engine, essentially a bored 352. The 2 bigger '58 models, with the longer Mercury wheelbase, used a 410 cubic inch engine, essentially a punched out 390.
Another thing I remember about the habits of those 383/430 engines were, they didn't start worth a hoot in the spring/summer heat. Always thought the pistons wer too tight with stock clearances. Just needed a thou and a half more.
This motor is hard to find parts for and it was fairly low miles so I plan to save all of those parts just in case I can’t find affordable replacements.
@@TemperMetalFabrication You are not going to be able to reuse the lifters because you did not keep them in order. Flat tappet lifters wear to the cam lobe. If you try to reuse them on a different lobe you will have a cam failure. If you reuse the cam you will need either have the lifters refaced or use new lifters and break the cam in like a new one.
Almost gauranteed that cam and lifters would have been non-usable as is, so of course it will need work. And parts are available. Anything is possible with a good machinist. You can even get wierd and do a regrind and open up the lifter bores to fit whatever, put ratio rockers on, etc. People literally do it every day.
@@tripple49 Lifters from FE work easy to find, Cam likely have to regrind. Don't know if you have actually tried to find parts for a MEL, but most of the specific parts are not readily available. I know how to find the parts, but your not going to find them at Summit or Rock Auto and a lot you will find listed are wrong or junk.
@@brownwrench the MEL 410 was only made for the Edsel but the MEL lone of engines (MEL standing for Mercury, Edsel, Lincoln) made different displacements for Lincoln’s and mercurys.
I got to come in on the head bolts about cleaning them up and reusing them that's on the man that owns the car however I believe it will be a mistake to do so
Got you bought the car from. You knew the job was dangerous when ya took. Yep? This car could be like that Stephen King car. Christine. I'll name her Gerty. You got guts. 😅. Yep
Hate to be critical, But you need to get a new engine stand. I’ve seen motors tip on three legged stands. Admire a young guys that care about vintage vehicles….
@@TemperMetalFabrication And I did the Same thing My whole life, Being in my 60's If this car is rare, They will know how to take it apart without Damage, If its not rare Car, Then Forget what I said, Then It doesn't matter, Everyone that knows me calls MacGyver,Because I can build cars bull dozers Radio's and I can build a house from bottom to finish, But I learned if its Valuable, Let the ones That have the tools Take it apart and you Put it together,
You got to port and polish the heads your self. Dont hit a hardned hammer on a harded surface one will explode. Get a brass hammer for all those jobs. You needed a wood knocking stick for pistons out of cylinders. Not aluminum. And put rubber hoses on threads. Not picking on you or faulting you. Just making you aware of easy ways. Protect your eyes and ears when stipping. Things under pressure. And tinitus is not a joke. 👍👍✌️🇬🇧
Contrary to what the internet will tell you at every opportunity, hardened steel on hardened steel won't explode. It will throw chips at high velocity if you hit it wrong, but there's a long gap between that and exploding.
Thanks for watching! There was an aluminum block between the valve stem and hammer. I also used a wood mallet for a lot of the valves. I tried a wood block for the pistons but it didn’t transfer enough energy to do what I needed.
@TemperMetalFabrication I never seen a block between valve and hammer. I seen a body hammer you were destroying on the valve top. Wooden hammer. completly useless. The Ali got a chance to score cylinders. Wood doesn't. Use Wood and bigger hammer/ mall. But with that nice shop you got. There is def a brass hammer in there or brass punch. Never valve stem to valve steam. Protect your eyes if you carry one that way. 👍👍✌️🇬🇧
@@DPaint-v5j Were the valve stems mushroomed over? No, because if they were they would get thru the guides. So much for this advise. Aluminum is softer than brass. You use brass if around gasoline to avoid possibility of sparks. Am sure valve stems will need to be resurfaced if valves don't end up needing replacement anyways.
@SMS-wu1th he was driving out stuck valves with a same size valve. Splaying the point of contact inside a close tolerance chamber under pressure. I don't think your a engine man. If your hitting any hardened metal use a softer metal than the item you hitting. Aliminium hammers don't have no weight behind it on impact. Engineers have used brass drifts and hammers from the first day engines was invented. But carry on your way. . You have a good day Mate. And keep saying buy new buy new is not exactly restoration. And no skill applied. 👍👍✌️🇬🇧
@TemperMetalFabrication it's a process My friend of pulling head off. Get in the habbit . Not all heads end up at the machine shop. And also it's less to skim if taken off correctly. Good luck. 👍👍✌️🇬🇧
@@DPaint-v5j You are not going to warp those heads taking them off. Guys used to come in the shop all time misinformed. The head bolt sequence is for installation and had to do with properly compressing the head gasket. Btw when you do the install you torque the bolts in several steps too. Guess need do that too not to warp 'em LOL
@SMS-wu1th Now we know. Thanks. I Do Cars. Utube. says do it this way from centre out. And Many more engine builders and strippers. I watched. And the way I was told 40 years ago..so maybe a good debatable subject one day. Have a good day Mate. 👍👍✌️🇬🇧
@@DPaint-v5j Everyone has their own ideas on stuff. A lot of stuff on the internet is BS. I hated taking engines apart. Waste time, dirty, and not where you make money. We never did anything that wasted time unless it mattered.
@@GeneralSulla this comment almost made me sad until I read it all haha. Ugly? Beautiful? I’m indifferent but it’s definitely unique and thats why I like it
@@garysgarage.2841 thanks for watching! You don’t think it does? I am still learning but I’d love to hear your thoughts. Considering how bad oil was in 1958, I think only being 5 thousands over bore is average for 40,000 miles. Comparing to a recent video that vice grip garage posted of a 170,000 motor that was over 10 thou.
You can't go by the odometer because they spin over to zero at 100k. You look at things like the break pedal the steering wheel things that wear out with use. If your lucky enough to have records of the milage that's a big help. The engine wear will greatly depend on maintenance a well maintained engine can show very little wear with high mileage and a low mileage engine can show lots of wear with a lack of maintenance. But in a real world milage is inevitable my 22 Durango has 28k already and we don't travel that's just going to the supermarket picking up the kids etc. it's possible but your talking about a little old lady that just drove to church on Sundays.
@@christinamoneyhan5688 sorry, It is rare as it was only made in the late 50’s. MEL motors only produced 3 displacements and this MEL 410 was only built for the Edsel. Hope that didn’t earn me a dislike and I hope you enjoyed the video.
@ no, no, no , I was around in the 1950’s and since Edsel was a Ford product I thought it might have had a 292 Thunderbird engine or I think there was a 312 . I still like you.😎✌🏻👍
@ Here is piece of motor information young man, Packard V8’s were used in the Studebaker Hawk automobiles and If memory serves me right two years only. Thought you might like to know .👍✌🏻😎🇺🇸🙏🏽
Thanks. I definitely agree with you but the motor is unique and made a lot of power in its day. My goal is to keep this car all original so if I can, I’m going to save the motor
Take it from a guy who has wrenched and rebuilt AMC V8s. Some buffs might argue that those engines should be turned into yacht anchors and the AMCs replaced with a SBC or an LS. That may be fine for that crowd and it does make for a low cost alternative, but there's a certain satisfaction in tracking down rare parts and items and keeping everything original, or original with some upgrades.
@@TemperMetalFabrication Again, I admire your ambition, and I hope that as you go forward doing projects like this, you do learn when the juice is not worth the squeeze. I really enjoy your content, and I hope you continue with it.
If you want a good penetrating oil use regular ATF & Acetone mixed half & half for stuck rings in cylinder bores but do not use synthetic ATF because it doesn't work nearly as good . The acetone and ATF will dissolve the rust & it works much better than other penitrating oils like liquid wrench PB blaster and it will cost more but it works better especially on old engines that have sat and are stuck from sitting. Kroil is another good penitrent that we used on air planes to help bolts that had become corroded in aluminum or steel on old air planes we used to dismantle for parts years ago at a shop I worked at that used to recover crashed air planes . 1 air plane we recovered was Senator Paul Wellstones turbo prop which is basically a jet engine that uses propellers that crashed because of a faulty fuel system after the FAA did a 2 year investigation on why it crashed killing him his wife and daughter plus the pilot at a hanger at Lake air in Lakeville MN years ago but as far as a good penetrating oil you can buy Kroil is about the best you can get other than making your own out of ATF and Acetone. If you don't know about this book you can buy its called Hemmings Motor News that will have a lot of old cars trucks for sale as well as places that specialize in old car parts used or repops so if you haven't heard about this look into this because I used to work at a shop that was sponsored by the MSRA Minnesota street rod association and we worked on a lot of old cars trucks of all kinds including old Jaguars Ferrari BMW Porsche as well as Rolls Royce and Bentley besides the old American stuff . One odd ball car i got to work on was a Amphicar if you know what they are that can be driven off road onto a boat launching ramp and drivin in water then back on land again . The owner of the shop was a huge Packard guy who had a lot of coach built Packard limousines from the mid 30s into the late 40s that he had chauffeur drivers for them to chauffeur people around for weddings and special occasions and events so he had the limousine side of it that also had muscle cars and sports cars and exotic sports cars you could rent but it had the limousine side plus the body shop & the side me and my boss had which was fixing these cars at the shop plus the ones coming in from word of mouth or through the MSRA . I feel blessed that I've had the opportunity to work on aircraft and all of these old cars at Classic auto years ago which paid very good plus having the chance to drive cars that 90% of the people will never own or drive . When I worked at Whitey's auto parts years befor these other places we had quite a few old Edsels in the yard because i remember seeing them so keep up the good work because I will definitely watch your channel on the progress being made on this old car .
I watched the video before i subd. i only subd because i want to hear you scream like a little girl when the machine shop tells you how much its going to cost to rebuild that engine. i just did a 289 that there are plenty of rebuild parts for and spent than i paid for the whole car. good luck with youre project and by the way good luck finding parts for that tranny.
Thanks for watching and subscribing! Luckily, the expensive parts can be reused. The heads will be the most expensive part since they got all of the rust and corrosion.
@@TemperMetalFabrication Biggest part be a problem and expense will be the pistons. Did not pay much attention to your bore numbers, but if they were .005" taper as I think you said you will need to overbore. That engine has an angled deck and most boring bars require a special plate. Not all shops have this.
For pistons best have a custom made by someone like JE. Egge pistons are not right and poor quality. For transmission a C-6 for an FE will bolt up and best option. If you stay with the B-W box need to find someone who has built them. Really not a hard unit to rebuild, but some things to know and getting parts is a bit of a pain anymore.
Memory, I sent a 6 cylinder flat head to a machine shop to do a valve grind, it went well but the did not tell me the there was a crack in the block. After a few cans of stop leak it survived.
Ahhhh, precious Edsel memories. When a lot of my high school friends were spending money on getting high, I was spending money on rebuilding E400’s, 352’s and 390’s. I think I made the wiser choice, and obviously you’re on the right path!
Thanks!
In about 1958, I was a hang-arounder at my neighbors and all the guy's 6-8 years older were talking about guy by the name of Richard. Someone they knew that had what was called a 'Wildfire', fiberglass I think sports car. He had bought this in California. Richard came by soon afterwards and it was loud and really impressive to a 13 year old.
This thing had a stroked 430 and a tri-power carb set up. It had a nice cam, drive shafts for exhaust. I've never forgot it. It had zero traction. 2nd gear starts and all smoke and noise but we thought it was the baddest thing we'd ever seen.
Way cooler than today's rigs.
Sounds cool!!
Woah! 3 months???
If it was more than 3 days, there was war with the machine shop, back in my day. How things have changed!
Are there really that many people rebuilding motors nowadays, that they are so backed up? I expected it to be the opposite, with modern engines going to 250-300 thousand miles without a rebuild. Back in my day, a typical engine would need a full rebuild any time between 70,000 and 100,000 miles and when we dropped a head off, there would be several similar ones finished and awaiting collection, often with associated bottom ends alongside them.
I’m retired from all that nowadays, because my life moved on and I diversified, but I still take an interest and keep my hand in, when I can.
It’s been over 20 years since I rebuilt an engine, though. I wonder whether I’ll ever do another… If it means months of hanging about, probably not. At my age time is too precious.
Blessings brother.
general..?..blessings really,what does that mean,sounds cult like
I never tore down a V8 with the intention of getting it running again, but I’ve done a few straight 4s and 6es in my time.
I used to work on the floor, as a teenager, but graduated to a sturdy bench in my 20s. Watching you flip that monster, single handed, I’m regretting my oft repeated decision not to buy an engine stand and spend the money on something more important.
Vs are much more awkward than straights and also more prone to leaks, particularly in the valley, so I think I dodged a bullet, only ever playing with scrap ones. I used to dread them coming in for routine servicing, because they had a much higher risk of callbacks. There was also always one plug that didn’t want to come out and it was invariably the one that had the trickiest access. Manufacturers book time was always hopelessly optimistic, too, which I suspect might have led to my colleagues cutting corners, trying to save time.
I’m enjoying watching this rebuild. Given how unpopular the Edsel was, I’m glad one has made it to the point where someone is saving it.
God bless u for saving this rare car! I love my Edsel . If u can keep it original you’re my hero !
Doing a super job
I enjoy tearing the engines apart to find the faults and get them corrected. It's a great stress reliever. Can't hardly wait for the next video to go on to the next adventure. Thanks for posting.
I agree! Thanks for watching!!
Great job. For many years I did my own work ,on the cars and trucks My Wife and I owned. I miss those days and hate the new mess they have made of them. I liked and subscribed to your channel.
Awesome project, looking forward to seeing it come together. That is an obscenely heavy crank!!
You should always take the exhaust manifolds off before removing the heads ! Much lighter!
Outstanding that you are working toward restoring your Edsel correctly sir! I will subscribe as I want to follow your progress.
Thanks!!
Those intake ports are huge. I’m a little surprised.
Right? This engine did not have a hard time breathing haha
I thought that, too!
Thorough job - well done and explained. Good luck at the machine shop.
My dad had a variety of Edsels. Great cars and the ones parked in the trees were fun for us kids to play in, better than tree houses.
Cool! Thanks for watching!
When busting lose those mains, or any well torqued bolt, turn it so it's perpendicular to the ground... That way, you can use gravity and your body weight to 'help' with less muscle, or effort used... Also, it helps keep the engine stand stationary so you're not fighting that as well... Thanks for sharing... Keep up your awesomeness...!
I think you made the right decision to pull that engine apart. I like the Edsel. You dont see those very often.
I agree! Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the tear-down! Everyone loves a good tear-down! "I do cars" made a channel out of it.
Great work man.
I just found your channel I really enjoyed , I think you'll be one of my favorites.
Glad to hear it! Thanks for watching!!
I really enjoy your channel. Just one guy doing all this. It'll be so fun watching you get the engine rebuilt, installed to get ole' Ed back on the road again!
Thanks!!
You are doing great at bagging everything but as for as push rods make sure they are not bent or plugged up
So inspiring! Great work Rem, love the video!
I have a Lincoln 430 engine that I disassembled this past summer. 56000 actual miles but not started for 45 years. I plan to rebuild it also. I have another 61 engine still intact that is stuck. I rebuilt a 63 430 engine about 10 years ago and got all parts with no problem Now I realize that parts are getting hard to find. If you need something let me know. With two engines I will def have extra parts. One thing hard to find is the 7/8 hose between the water pump and intake manifold. It is NAPA part # 601 which is available by the foot. Of Course you only need about 3 inches but at least they are available.
Thanks! I will definitely keep you in mind. Good luck with your builds and thanks for watching!
Wow- that’s quite the project you’ve got going there!! I subscribed so I can watch your progress & follow along….
Thank you!
Keep the videos coming
I Will!
I see the mechanic used a valve compresser to remove the keepers, (there is a short cut) Yes, restore the valve train to burn unleaded, Edsel engines were often substituted for Ford engines
in stock cars, however the Chevy Engines were hard to beat! Great Job!
Thank you! And thanks for watching.
ALWAYS an insecure arrogant Chevy guy in every comment section!
When I was a kid I remember passing a brand new Edsel on the highway. Come to think of it, this happened in Michigan. I think it was the same color. Maybe this is the same car lol.
Wouldn’t that be cool! I always wish there was a Timelapse video I could buy of a car sitting in a field. It would be so cool to watch how it rolled off the line and somehow eventually got forgotten about and nature took it over.
Thanks
Great video . Your channel has great content. Looking forward to seeing restored and back on the road.
Thank you!
I enjoyed watching and wait til the next one thanks for sharing your content
Thank you!!
Our machine shop didn’t like to be handed a bag of bits, like that. They charged extra, to discourage it.
Not sure why, but I suppose if they’re handed a complete assembly, at least they know everything came in the door and didn’t get lost in the workshop. Made life easier for us, because we only stripped valves if we were replacing one, or lapping them in as part of a head gasket job.
For sleeving or reseating, or unleaded inserts, the machine shop did all that and put it back together too.
Excellent, and I'm following your progress. You're very knowledgeable, experienced, and methodical. Great shop, too. Was enjoying a bedtime snack while watching, and then your dog licked its butt from about 29 minutes to 31 minutes into the video. Had to set the snack aside and scroll past that. TMI ;) But it's a beautiful lab!
Would have been nice if you had given a description of the engine ie: size hp etc. I have been building engines over 50 years and I have never seen an old cast iron engine “sleeved” as you said however you can sleeve pretty much any engine. To me it looks like the 410 Edsel engine. Keep going it could get interesting.
@@Charger1908 thanks for watching! Sorry about that, I explained more in episode 1 where I introduced the car as a whole but I’ll try to explain more in future videos.
Those are thermostats in the block at the water pump. Early MEL had them. The bearing are babbit and copper with a steel backing. Top layer is not a hard layer. In operation should be a wedge of oil between the journal and bearing. Most bearing wear is at start up. Bearings are worn out and likely crank will need to be reground. Is typical worn out engine, but looks like a decent core.
Thanks for all of the information! Big help. And thanks for watching
Strictly speaking the middle "copper" layer isn't just copper. Typically it's copper combined with about 20% lead. Lead doesn't dissolve in copper so when the molten metal solidifies it has lots of little globs of pure lead in it, they act as solid lubricant if the oil fails to prevent metal-to-metal contact and the babbitt or tin layer gets worn through. Helps avoid seizing the engine, though if you've worn through the babbitt the bearing is on its last legs...
About time you got back at this project!
@@rockhoundingeasternwashing5308 right! Sorry for the delay! I’ve been working on it steady since the last video but have limited time between day job, side job and property chores. Can’t wait to keep moving forward.
@@TemperMetalFabrication I figured that was the case...
My dad’s ‘59 was a 3 stroke. The gas to honey ratio was 26 to one. A super sweet little engine it was.
What the hell is a "3 stroke"? All '59 Edsels used 223 cubic inch in line Ford 6 cylinder engines, the 292 Ford Y block V8, or a Ford 332 W block V8, or the same 361 W block of the '58 short wheelbase Edsel models. All regular Ford 4 cycle/stroke engines. If you are talking about a DKW or SAAB 3 cylinder, 2 stroke/cycle engine, you should mention that to save confusion.
31:02 Imagine if you had got the engine running? All that dirt would have scored up the cylinder or damaged the valves sealing.
Very ambitious
Thank you!
Loved the way your dog had a feed of its own arse while you were pulling the first valve
Great video thank you
Hope you paint the 475 in the original colours. I believe that is the one thing that Edsel nailed.
I love engine bay clean up
Me too. I’m looking forward to making it new again!
Your dog is so rando "Need help, Dad? I could use an ear scratch."
Haha yeah she’s a good pup. Checks in on me to make sure I’m doin alright 😂
i believe that's what was referred to as a MEL motor, (mercury, edsel, lincoln, ) they were also available in some thunderbirds and some trucks as well not high horsepower, but had a lot of torque, you know how Ford was always engineering !!!
Ford was always moving forward! I believe that the MEL 410 was Edsel specific but the 430 and 460 were in other Lincoln’s and mercury’s
LOL , Ford's R&D guys were always working overtime !!!!
@@TemperMetalFabrication You probably meant the 430 and 462, which were both MELs. The 460 was a member of the 385 Series, along with the 429.
Cute doggie
Rule number one of every good car restoration video is have your dog in the video. Number two, pet your dog give a name, and invite it into your videos. Everybody loves dogs or at least I do.
You are right, this seems commonplace, every shop has a dog running about!
Thanks for watching! I will be sure to introduce her in the next video. Her name is Honey and she’s a rescue lab/pit mut. She’s a great dog.
Thank you for being you. You’re a queen. A you’re a keen young fella who likes automobiles but you are approaching many of the items you’re doing making life difficult for yourself. One is why didn’t you pull off the pan at the very beginning? Electrical is the most important I’m an automotive electrical mechanical engineer, I did a course that took years for the military. Thanks for being you buddy. I enjoying what you’re doing but you’re making me sweat when you don’t have to regards Alan from down under.
Thank you! This is my first restoration so I am still learning the best way to do things.
Ford FE 332 to I'm no sure but could be as high as 4i60. Bore and stroke main difference between most Edsel and Ford motors. Friend in 66 had an Edsel with a 410, that thing would haul xss, the good old days.
Either this video is coming up backwards or the manifold bolts are left hand thread. And that would be the first.
The bolts on the top? I think they look backwards because I’m actually taking a nut off that faces the manifold. The manifold is studded on the top.
i feel alot of GM ideas in this one,"rams horns" exhaust manifolds,,"catherderal port" inlet ports etc,
Yes if the cylinder walls are still okay inside of it. Soak in ATF and acetone and marvel mystery oil. It's called pickling the cylinders.
Good to know. Thanks for watching!
You need a solid breaker bar crack your bolts . Beating your hand on something with no leverage will result in bad body joints in many short years of your life. Get the corect tools. Makes life easy. 👍👍✌️🇬🇧
Good thinkin. Thanks!
The hand is it a hammer! Ask me how I know!
You mentioned nose head bolts I don't know for sure if this is true maybe something to research but I've always been told that when you redo an engine you put new head bolts in because twerking them stretches the boat
Yeah I have heard that too! I plan to replace them but I always keep stuff like that just in case.
@@TemperMetalFabrication Those are not torque to yield bolts and as long as they aren't rusted and pitted reuse them they will be fine.
Not torque to yield bolts. No need to waste money replacing them. Just clean them up and reuse them.
Well, generators Can Be Converted into alternators..! So There..!
No need to use sleaves for this engine. Just have it bored out to the minimum size needed to true up the cylinders. Most will true up at 30 over. Then get new 30 over pistons to put on your old rods. I myself have never had to have one bored more than 40 over.
You should cut the ring ridges before you remove the pistons.
That would be a real plus!
The 58 Edsel with the 430 Super Marauder was the first American production engine to make 400 HP. It was only made in that configuration for 58 and was detuned for 59.
Great channel. I like the content and you’re not throwing $10.000 @ it. Cheers what’s the puppies name?
Thank you! Her name is Honey.
You mentioned the bearings had the hard surface worn off. That is actually a soft surface made to wear away to prevent wearing away the hard steel crankshaft. It looks like a very high mileage engine that needs a re-bore, larger pistons and rings to match the new bore, and new bearings. I'd also replace the oil and water pumps, and the timing gear and chain. A valve job will be needed, as well. The 2 smaller Ford wheelbase Edsel models in '58 had a 361 cubic inch engine, essentially a bored 352. The 2 bigger '58 models, with the longer Mercury wheelbase, used a 410 cubic inch engine, essentially a punched out 390.
The 410 you're thinking of is an FE used in the 66 67 Mercurys, a 390 with a 428 crank. The Edsel 410 was a de-bored 430 MEL
Where can I buy merch?
Another thing I remember about the habits of those 383/430 engines were, they didn't start worth a hoot in the spring/summer heat. Always thought the pistons wer too tight with stock clearances. Just needed a thou and a half more.
I saw that too.
Your dog is demonstrating how good your character must be. Dogs aren’t that loyal and content around people who are jerks.
@@hitchcock1960 thank you! She is my best friend.
For ease the cap and piston should be just bolted together
If the crank is seised, then loosened the bolts to see if it will turn.
What am I missing here,why bag and save parts destined for the dumpster? like pushrods and lifters.
This motor is hard to find parts for and it was fairly low miles so I plan to save all of those parts just in case I can’t find affordable replacements.
@@TemperMetalFabrication You are not going to be able to reuse the lifters because you did not keep them in order. Flat tappet lifters wear to the cam lobe. If you try to reuse them on a different lobe you will have a cam failure. If you reuse the cam you will need either have the lifters refaced or use new lifters and break the cam in like a new one.
Almost gauranteed that cam and lifters would have been non-usable as is, so of course it will need work. And parts are available. Anything is possible with a good machinist. You can even get wierd and do a regrind and open up the lifter bores to fit whatever, put ratio rockers on, etc. People literally do it every day.
@@tripple49 Lifters from FE work easy to find, Cam likely have to regrind. Don't know if you have actually tried to find parts for a MEL, but most of the specific parts are not readily available. I know how to find the parts, but your not going to find them at Summit or Rock Auto and a lot you will find listed are wrong or junk.
It helps to be able to look back at what exactly came out when putting it back together
Just started watching. That engine intake pick up hook you made looked suspect. And weak. Always take the extra time and get your saftey. 👍👍✌️🇬🇧
The rods must be removed before the crank can be. Therefore, the sooner the pistons are broken free to move the better.
I have a 58 Edsel ranger and I just pulled the engine in mine. It too was siezed
I'm going to diesel swap mine
Nice!!
Is this a Lincoln engine?
@@brownwrench the MEL 410 was only made for the Edsel but the MEL lone of engines (MEL standing for Mercury, Edsel, Lincoln) made different displacements for Lincoln’s and mercurys.
I think you got the pistons in the wrong order
@@richarddavis3007 why do you say that? Luckily all of them were stamped with a number so laying them out like I did wasn’t necessary.
I got to come in on the head bolts about cleaning them up and reusing them that's on the man that owns the car however I believe it will be a mistake to do so
We did a complete overhaul of a MEL 430 SuperMarauder, it's now like new. If you interested, see: th-cam.com/video/6wsw21quWX4/w-d-xo.html
Awesome! I Will Check it out!
My dad had a 58 Edsel when I was a kid. He finally sold it in 1973. I was 12 years old and I remember that ugly thing well.
the bearings are not hard the face of the bearing is a lead alloy . then copper and the out side is steel .
That is not the hard layer. The bearing shell is the hard layer. The bearing surface is very soft!
Got you bought the car from. You knew the job was dangerous when ya took. Yep? This car could be like that Stephen King car. Christine. I'll name her Gerty. You got guts. 😅. Yep
At this point maybe loosen the crank bolts
Is this a 2 stroke?
Are you a bot?
@@talltom1129no, do you know if it’s 2 or 4 stroke?
@@alexeyandavery It is a 8 stroke 😁
No, it's a hit and miss engine🤣
@@rockhoundingeasternwashing5308 🤣
Generator?
Dynamo!
Good video, but you skipped the most critical part: pulling the "stuck" pistons?
@@Davey-Drums thanks! It was more of beating them out but that video is in there. I get the first one out around the 20 minute mark and go from there.
I am wondering which items of an engine are not physical?
Gas powered engines most likely are not sleeved.
Hate to be critical, But you need to get a new engine stand. I’ve seen motors tip on three legged stands. Admire a young guys that care about vintage vehicles….
@@HeleneandTom thanks for watching! Critical is what I need to learn so thanks for that too. I will definitely get a bigger stand for reassembly.
Half left, not alright
Guys if you’re not a machine shop just drop the motor off to them and let them figure it out
Why do you say that? I love trying to figure stuff out myself in my own shop.
@@TemperMetalFabrication And I did the Same thing My whole life, Being in my 60's If this car is rare, They will know how to take it apart without Damage, If its not rare Car, Then Forget what I said, Then It doesn't matter, Everyone that knows me calls MacGyver,Because I can build cars bull dozers Radio's and I can build a house from bottom to finish, But I learned if its Valuable, Let the ones That have the tools Take it apart and you Put it together,
Need new valve seats them are bad
@@richarddavis3007 yup! Unfortunately this motor didn’t have valve seats from the factory so I’m having some installed.
You said crank bearing but you meant rod bearing.
@@tomford8286 good catch. I’m still learning haha
You got to port and polish the heads your self. Dont hit a hardned hammer on a harded surface one will explode. Get a brass hammer for all those jobs. You needed a wood knocking stick for pistons out of cylinders. Not aluminum. And put rubber hoses on threads. Not picking on you or faulting you. Just making you aware of easy ways. Protect your eyes and ears when stipping. Things under pressure. And tinitus is not a joke. 👍👍✌️🇬🇧
Contrary to what the internet will tell you at every opportunity, hardened steel on hardened steel won't explode. It will throw chips at high velocity if you hit it wrong, but there's a long gap between that and exploding.
Thanks for watching! There was an aluminum block between the valve stem and hammer. I also used a wood mallet for a lot of the valves. I tried a wood block for the pistons but it didn’t transfer enough energy to do what I needed.
@TemperMetalFabrication I never seen a block between valve and hammer. I seen a body hammer you were destroying on the valve top. Wooden hammer. completly useless. The Ali got a chance to score cylinders. Wood doesn't. Use Wood and bigger hammer/ mall. But with that nice shop you got. There is def a brass hammer in there or brass punch. Never valve stem to valve steam. Protect your eyes if you carry one that way. 👍👍✌️🇬🇧
@@DPaint-v5j Were the valve stems mushroomed over? No, because if they were they would get thru the guides. So much for this advise. Aluminum is softer than brass. You use brass if around gasoline to avoid possibility of sparks. Am sure valve stems will need to be resurfaced if valves don't end up needing replacement anyways.
@SMS-wu1th he was driving out stuck valves with a same size valve. Splaying the point of contact inside a close tolerance chamber under pressure. I don't think your a engine man.
If your hitting any hardened metal use a softer metal than the item you hitting. Aliminium hammers don't have no weight behind it on impact. Engineers have used brass drifts and hammers from the first day engines was invented. But carry on your way. . You have a good day Mate. And keep saying buy new buy new is not exactly restoration. And no skill applied. 👍👍✌️🇬🇧
Edsel never rare but unique cars but many still don't like to this day
I like how unique they are. Thanks for watching!
We real mechanics put the caps and nuts back on the rods those pistons are unusable plan on buying new pistons find a good automotive machine shop
@@Doug-b4p why do you say they’re un usable? Pistons for this motor must be custom made.
You supposed to strip head from midlde head bolts out. You will warp the head your way. Or tightning sequences.
Good to know! Luckily, these heads and the block are getting machined flat before reassembly
@TemperMetalFabrication it's a process My friend of pulling head off. Get in the habbit . Not all heads end up at the machine shop. And also it's less to skim if taken off correctly. Good luck. 👍👍✌️🇬🇧
@@DPaint-v5j You are not going to warp those heads taking them off. Guys used to come in the shop all time misinformed. The head bolt sequence is for installation and had to do with properly compressing the head gasket. Btw when you do the install you torque the bolts in several steps too. Guess need do that too not to warp 'em LOL
@SMS-wu1th Now we know. Thanks. I Do Cars. Utube. says do it this way from centre out. And Many more engine builders and strippers. I watched. And the way I was told 40 years ago..so maybe a good debatable subject one day. Have a good day Mate. 👍👍✌️🇬🇧
@@DPaint-v5j Everyone has their own ideas on stuff. A lot of stuff on the internet is BS. I hated taking engines apart. Waste time, dirty, and not where you make money. We never did anything that wasted time unless it mattered.
The Edsel is so damn ugly, it's pretty.
@@GeneralSulla this comment almost made me sad until I read it all haha. Ugly? Beautiful? I’m indifferent but it’s definitely unique and thats why I like it
Sleeves whT planet are u from its a ford
@@Doug-b4p just learning as I go and Havin fun haha. Thanks for watching
He actually believes the car only has 40k in it.
@@garysgarage.2841 thanks for watching! You don’t think it does? I am still learning but I’d love to hear your thoughts. Considering how bad oil was in 1958, I think only being 5 thousands over bore is average for 40,000 miles. Comparing to a recent video that vice grip garage posted of a 170,000 motor that was over 10 thou.
You can't go by the odometer because they spin over to zero at 100k. You look at things like the break pedal the steering wheel things that wear out with use. If your lucky enough to have records of the milage that's a big help. The engine wear will greatly depend on maintenance a well maintained engine can show very little wear with high mileage and a low mileage engine can show lots of wear with a lack of maintenance. But in a real world milage is inevitable my 22 Durango has 28k already and we don't travel that's just going to the supermarket picking up the kids etc. it's possible but your talking about a little old lady that just drove to church on Sundays.
I don’t think you mentioned one time what makes this motor rare.
@@christinamoneyhan5688 sorry, It is rare as it was only made in the late 50’s. MEL motors only produced 3 displacements and this MEL 410 was only built for the Edsel. Hope that didn’t earn me a dislike and I hope you enjoyed the video.
@ no, no, no , I was around in the 1950’s and since Edsel was a Ford product I thought it might have had a 292 Thunderbird engine or I think there was a 312 . I still like you.😎✌🏻👍
@ Here is piece of motor information young man, Packard V8’s were used in the Studebaker Hawk automobiles and If memory serves me right two years only. Thought you might like to know .👍✌🏻😎🇺🇸🙏🏽
Your videos need more close up and cut away shots. Consider voice over as well.
I agree! I just bought a camera that is much smaller and can be used for close ups and POV stuff. I will try to use that a lot more moving forward.
Just like the car, why?
I admire your ambition, BUT that motor would make a good boat anchor, there are better choices for a usable power plant.
Thanks. I definitely agree with you but the motor is unique and made a lot of power in its day. My goal is to keep this car all original so if I can, I’m going to save the motor
Take it from a guy who has wrenched and rebuilt AMC V8s. Some buffs might argue that those engines should be turned into yacht anchors and the AMCs replaced with a SBC or an LS. That may be fine for that crowd and it does make for a low cost alternative, but there's a certain satisfaction in tracking down rare parts and items and keeping everything original, or original with some upgrades.
@@TemperMetalFabrication Again, I admire your ambition, and I hope that as you go forward doing projects like this, you do learn when the juice is not worth the squeeze. I really enjoy your content, and I hope you continue with it.
If you want a good penetrating oil use regular ATF & Acetone mixed half & half for stuck rings in cylinder bores but do not use synthetic ATF because it doesn't work nearly as good . The acetone and ATF will dissolve the rust & it works much better than other penitrating oils like liquid wrench PB blaster and it will cost more but it works better especially on old engines that have sat and are stuck from sitting. Kroil is another good penitrent that we used on air planes to help bolts that had become corroded in aluminum or steel on old air planes we used to dismantle for parts years ago at a shop I worked at that used to recover crashed air planes . 1 air plane we recovered was Senator Paul Wellstones turbo prop which is basically a jet engine that uses propellers that crashed because of a faulty fuel system after the FAA did a 2 year investigation on why it crashed killing him his wife and daughter plus the pilot at a hanger at Lake air in Lakeville MN years ago but as far as a good penetrating oil you can buy Kroil is about the best you can get other than making your own out of ATF and Acetone. If you don't know about this book you can buy its called Hemmings Motor News that will have a lot of old cars trucks for sale as well as places that specialize in old car parts used or repops so if you haven't heard about this look into this because I used to work at a shop that was sponsored by the MSRA Minnesota street rod association and we worked on a lot of old cars trucks of all kinds including old Jaguars Ferrari BMW Porsche as well as Rolls Royce and Bentley besides the old American stuff . One odd ball car i got to work on was a Amphicar if you know what they are that can be driven off road onto a boat launching ramp and drivin in water then back on land again . The owner of the shop was a huge Packard guy who had a lot of coach built Packard limousines from the mid 30s into the late 40s that he had chauffeur drivers for them to chauffeur people around for weddings and special occasions and events so he had the limousine side of it that also had muscle cars and sports cars and exotic sports cars you could rent but it had the limousine side plus the body shop & the side me and my boss had which was fixing these cars at the shop plus the ones coming in from word of mouth or through the MSRA . I feel blessed that I've had the opportunity to work on aircraft and all of these old cars at Classic auto years ago which paid very good plus having the chance to drive cars that 90% of the people will never own or drive . When I worked at Whitey's auto parts years befor these other places we had quite a few old Edsels in the yard because i remember seeing them so keep up the good work because I will definitely watch your channel on the progress being made on this old car .
I watched the video before i subd. i only subd because i want to hear you scream like a little girl when the machine shop tells you how much its going to cost to rebuild that engine. i just did a 289 that there are plenty of rebuild parts for and spent than i paid for the whole car. good luck with youre project and by the way good luck finding parts for that tranny.
Thanks for watching and subscribing! Luckily, the expensive parts can be reused. The heads will be the most expensive part since they got all of the rust and corrosion.
@@TemperMetalFabrication Biggest part be a problem and expense will be the pistons. Did not pay much attention to your bore numbers, but if they were .005" taper as I think you said you will need to overbore. That engine has an angled deck and most boring bars require a special plate. Not all shops have this.
For pistons best have a custom made by someone like JE. Egge pistons are not right and poor quality. For transmission a C-6 for an FE will bolt up and best option. If you stay with the B-W box need to find someone who has built them. Really not a hard unit to rebuild, but some things to know and getting parts is a bit of a pain anymore.
Memory, I sent a 6 cylinder flat head to a machine shop to do a valve grind, it went well but the did not tell me the there was a crack in the block. After a few cans of stop leak it survived.