Communism vs Fascism: Which was more evil? | Michael Malice and Yaron Brook and Lex Fridman
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 เม.ย. 2021
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Michael Malice and Yar...
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GUEST BIO:
Michael Malice is an anarchist. Yaron Brook is an objectivist. Both are podcasters and authors.
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"The essence of evil is evasion of reality, is putting your feelings ahead of the facts" He says literally right after dismissing Michael's story before even hearing it.
Precisely. Never trust a man that already has the world sussed out. It be hella SUS bruh. :P
Yaron started this clip very badly. He seemed much better by the end although he's coming across as full out ideologue by saying things like there's literally nothing good whatsoever about HItler or Stalin or whatever. Everybody does some good and has some good ideas. To say "______ said it so therefore it's not worth listening to" is ideology 101 and fundamentally no different from the people he hates so much.
If you already know the argument they are going to put forth there is no reason for a long drawn out explanation. Communism is inherently evil in all its forms and the people who practice it are as well even if the people don't know it. The German people who supported the Nazi government thought they were doing the right thing too but were supporting evil and thus were evil themselves.
@@jasondashney Totally agree. He acts like an offended child, so annoying.
Because he knew what the other had to say
This Brooks guy doesn't make a single argument. "This is evil" "This is wrong". He provides zero arguments or evidence.
To me it is blatantly obvious which one is more against the individual. The one which intentionally killed millions of its own citizens.
It's ironic that he brings up the Borg in Star Trek and doesn't realize that the entire Star Trek Federation is Communist.
The only place communism worked, a world of fiction.
The federation exists in a post scarcity world. That's essentially impossible and as much science fiction as the idea of the communist utopia.
Exactly. Like the entire thing is mocking how capitalism fucked yo the world and only caused conflict. That’s a fake nerd if I ever heard one.
@@Teach190 No it just shows that once again, successful communism only exists in fictional literature. And again, the star trek world has no resource scarcity which is the single largest driving factor behind all conflict.
Yeah I noticed that myself. But then he explained the context
There aren't enough people out there having these conversations. Well done!
Indeed
I have no trouble with someone who actually lives on a commune and calls themselves a communist. But I have a huge problem with someone who calls themselves a communist, has zero intention of living in a commune and wants to force people to live in a communist society.
@btc btc I am against forcing others to do what someone else wants them to do. If someone has extreme views and doesnt bother anyone then leave thme alone.
commie lover...go join the commune, communist
Calling yourself a communist is still a problem, the ideology is fundamentally wrong on so many levels.
A lot of the authoritarian communists do want to live in a commune but they have no idea how to run one and end up causing damage, see Chaz as an example.
@@user-mw2vn7pv8n Yes. But there are many religions with which I disagree fundamentally but I do not go in and protest them during their ceremonies. Communism will lose influence in America once Cuba is overthrown. Be patient. Wait them out.
I like the "I'm a communist with my family, a liberal with my friends, and a libertarian with everyone else" comparison. I forget who made it.
Gestapo knock on your door: "We're here to hurt you, to help our Race".
KGB knock on your door: "We're here to hurt you, to help you."
You forgot one. And you haven't got it quite right..
Gestapo knock on your door: "We're here to hurt you, to help our Race".
OVRA (Italian secret police): "We're here to hurt you, to help all of us."
KGB knock on your door: "We're here to hurt you, to help all of us"
These are collectivist ideologies. It is about the sacrifice of individuals for the group good. What Ayn Rand referred to as the individual 'immolating himself' for the state.
Mussolini uttered the core formulation that actually fits both systems:
"Everything Within the State, Nothing Against the State, Nothing Outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
This is considered a key fascist formulation.. but it is really just a distillation of the idea behind Totalitarian style governing. The government controls EVERYTHING.
To educated observers: I'm being intentionally narrow here. KGB is the secret police associated with the USSR.. but other arms similar to them existed in a lot of the satellite states.. and totalitarian governments outside the USSR, 1930s-1940s Germany and all other totalitarian governments in the world have essentially the same types of structures, just with different names.
Good point
Please read all you can find regarding Richard Kalergi’s “Pan” European Union Plan 1923. It was supported and funded by the same groups that
That funded and supported Nazi ideology. Both Kalergi and Hitler were Austrian and Kalergi’s Plan created the Nazi reaction... Read Kalergi’s “Practical Idealism” and what the last 100 year implementation is leading to. There happens to be an acolyte of Kalergi who will explain via TH-cam the current status of the plan. Do you have the courage to follow the truth? Why have we never heard of Kalergi, one of the most important men of the 20th century?
TH-cam Barbara Lerner Spectre an acolyte of Richard Kalergi. She will explain her support and active efforts to accomplish the plan.
"I don't know what Stalinism is and I don't care" is not something a critical thinker should say.
1. Dictatorship 2. Question mark 3. Utopia.
The perfect cultural reference, Mr. Malice :-)
Cracked me up
"But you Yada Yada Yada'd the best part."
"I mentioned the bisque."
I got it
Man lex really hit it out of the park with this podcast.
in soviet russia,park hit you.
Yes he did.
Here here !
@@brrruhdon__718 0
Lex, your interview skills are on form on this one! Well done, dare I say better than JR?
“There’s no big difference between fascism and communism.” = I have no idea what I’m talking about.
There are differences to people who are autistic and live in their heads, to people who live in the real world and measure consequences/things that matter, the two are alike in all the ways that matter; causing widespread misery and suffering. I don't need to read piles of Marxist literature like you to "understand" it. Get out of your mind and examine the real world outcomes. And to say they have no idea when fascism has roots in marxism shows that you actually have no idea. But you'll never change and i have no idea why I waste my time anymore. Habit, I guess.
In terms of the end product, not much. In terms of its flavour and modalities, lots of differences.
@@gs7828truth.
It’s interesting how they define mass murder, as if denying people healthcare in the name of capitalism doesn’t count because it’s not overtly violent
Very good point.
If capitalism denied health csre why does 92% of Americans have access to health care? Also many countries that have universal health care also practice capitalism...
@@timdeleon827 How many go bankrupt due to healthcare costs?
"Ideology always leads to atrocity."
-Terrence McKenna
There is a more evil political ideology than fascism or communism, it's Islamism.
eat a bunch of lsd and get manipulated endlessly by all ideologies, because everything *could be true*. It's not idea's that lead to atrocity, it's human nature- base level stuff.
@@colinburroughs9871 But to get people to act em masse on those awful parts of their nature requires a unifying idea.
@@VindexAnimae by what metric?
Yet you're steeped in ideology by liberal friend
Malice seems far more interesting and mentally flexible than Brook, Brook also gets a few things wrong, the Idea that people have certain rights predates the founding fathers.
The part of the US Declaration Of Independence that mentions "inalienable rights..." was very heavily influenced by the writings of John Locke, who had been dead for more than 70 years at that point.
Yeah at times Yaron speaks authoritatively on stuff he barely has read. Natural rights theory predates the constitution for some time, and can be seen in common law concepts which were adopted into the American legal system, along with Locke, etc.
Brooks did mention the Romans and Greeks before he mentioned the founding fathers though.
It’s actually “unalienable Rights”, defined in Blackstone’s Law as “without law or border”. It seems a quirk, but words matter and there is a reason they carefully chose what they wrote.
Look up Jefferson’s first draft of the Declaration of Independence, the “long train of abuses and usurpations”. Why did they choose those words?
Our Founders were very learned men, despite their faults and shortcomings.
Look up on YT, particularly for now of 03 July 2021, Paul Harvey’s wonderful orations of “Our Lives... Our Fortunes... Our Sacred Honor” and “From Freedom To Chains”. Think about the time in which Mr. Harvey’s presentations of these. Magna Carta. Luther’s Thesis’
Not one of those 56 men reneged on their Blood 🩸 Oath. Our Nation was built on that Pledge, that Oath. Not one. Genesis, Abram’s struggle with God, Jacob’s struggle with God. That’s where that Blood 🩸 Oath came from. And too much has been shed for it. Far too much.
“I __________do solemnly swear, or affirm( I say swear and affirm, look up why both are in there) So help me, God!”
Happy 4th of July America 🇺🇸, a crap ton of people have sacrificed, bled and died trying to build it. We must bleed to keep it. “What makes the grass grow....”
@@ronaldlollis8895 Careful how you apply that last phrase. A training mantra for soldiers to (temporarily?) shed a little of their humanity so they can kill when needed on the battlefield being applied to domestic politics is a historically proven recipe for atrocities.
He also skipped from the Greeks right past the Roman republic…to the US founding.
More is articulately covered in this 30 min clip than most children will learn throughout all of K-12. Shame on these schools, and bravo to you three gentlemen! 👏🏽
if you paid attention theres much more you would learn in school lmao
Yeah it's almost like these guys went through K-12 and are able to communicate effectively
Did you actually go to school?
Sorry about the quality of the comments to your post thus far. Yeesh.
There was almost nothing of value to learn here and if you don't learn at least 10x more in school, there is a problem with that teacher (or you paying attention)
Can someone tell me the names of all the books please
It is interesting at the end he mentions Richard Wolff and democratic work places, immediately disregards it, then goes on to talk about how remarkable the development of political democracy was. Is his point that we are so lucky to have political democracy that pushing for economic democracy would be pushing our luck?
This man is ridiculous alongside the rest of them you can't say something is evil when evil forces were working against said states nonstop
yep exactly. It is sad that the west has not moved one inch forward since McCarthy.
@@janinemarcuse6406 that's exaggerating
@@benjaminjoeBF3 it’s a side effect of reading too much Rand and philosophy.
Your pods are getting dangerously addictive. You're starting to steal my time on other chores, keep up ,loving it
Probably the single most interesting discussion I've ever listened to! I wish i could've been a fly on the wall, but was able to chime in once in awhile
What's Malice's book called?
This entire conversation was eye opening and highly entertaining. Love seeing Malice return and I really enjoyed the intelligent discussions between him and Yaron.
It takes a very special kind of talent to be able to extract anything intelligent from Yaron Brook. I've come to really like, respect & admire Michael Malice, but being able to make Yaron Brook worth listening to at all puts him in a different league. If he was able to do that for almost 5 hours (I'm skeptical to say the least), that's God-tier interlocuter material.
@@lachlanbell8390 Yaron seems reasonable, not sure why you have to say this stuff.
@@michaeljackson8002 Yaron's a blind ideologue, so detached from reality he borders on lunatic. If this is your only exposure to him then perhaps he may seem reasonable - my comment was specifically noting how unusual it is for anyone to extract something reasonable from him, meaning this was a significant anomaly.
@@lachlanbell8390 is yaron the white haired dude? because this is my first exposure to him and he seemed like a blind ideologue, like a religious zelot.
Yea it's like talking to Joseph McCarthy
Another great podcast! But I still think Lex is a Robot.
@@werdmaster hhhhh is loomi in I’m knbr I junk. Do on
I I my knn N hi hi h h he fjvc
T@@werdmaster jhu
@@keymold4405 Mathematicians lack common sense. Lol.
#syntheticLivesMatter
#transMachina
#transRobotica
Yes
This is the kind of discussion that happens when you have one person in the room with views based upon a very superficial knowledge of something, and won't learn enough about the topic to warrant changing them.
Equating Communism and Fascism with each other is reductive, and so is basing views of abstract concepts on real events which are basically determined by other factors. You can't really judge political ideologies using historical events because historical events are determined by factors far more powerful then ideologies. Ideologies are literally just ideas, and often powerless in the face of reality. I don't think there has been a single form of government in the whole of human history which has been inspired by an ideology which has ever stuck to that ideology in the face of real world circumstances. When you criticize historical figures like Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, etc. you are criticizing their actions, and not abstract philosophies which they are linked to because those ideologies almost always evaporate when faced with having to make decisions which in the end benefit the decision maker over the ideology they aspire to.
The problem is when the struggle between the communist/fascist ideologies and reality begin they both leave similar results which is death in the millions compared to any other ideological/philosophical clash with reality. That’s what they meant. No matter how you twist communism or facism. There’s only one thing awaiting everyone and that’s a genocide nothing less!
Point taken. However even tho I consider myself somewhat erudite I still had to read your comments more then once.
This is great. Thanks for taking the time to write it. This whole comment section is riddled with gems.
Your 2 comments add much to this loathsome conversation.
You should have Adam Curtis come on to talk about individualism
it's good to watch Lex handling a more challenging and confronting type of interview. Great work Lex!
He didn't say much though, the value is from the guests.
@@daerenlalad5656 I felt the same at first, but this was two guests instead of one. He acted more as a moderator in a debate, allowing them to feed off each other as ideas were spawned and argued, yet he interjected at the right moments. I’d be very interested to see him do a similar set up now, as his skills have progressed.
Are you saying Kanye and future Tate are not confronting and deep thinkers of our time?
@@shikeridoo lol the ops comment was from a year ago. How would he know about Ye being interviewed? Tate is being detained for human trafficking so who knows what will happen with him and who cares.
@@scottf5791 oh yea, I wasn't paying attention to any timeline here. Was making a joke.
So in summary Yaron is saying "there are two kinds of ideas in life, my ideas and evil ideas"
Exactly! It’s amazing to watch a grown man argue like an adolescent, preening and waving his index finger around; and anyway his premise is ridiculous. You could make the same weak argument about every religious icon. Oh-look-at-all-the-bad-things-that-happened-so-they-must-have-been-evil. Or maybe we condemn Adam Smith because there were no labor protections for children in industrial England! It could go on and on.
Communism was perhaps a flawed idea because of human nature, while Naziism was explicitly nihilistic and hateful. Apples and oranges.
@@sophiesdad1200 Absolutely, his conflation of such distinct idea's really undermines his credibility on the subject. If he really wanted to make a case for Libertarian Capitalism, he should apply for an Amazon Warehouse position and film a documentary to explore the utopian future we could all enjoy under Ayn Rand's Libertarianism.
@@sophiesdad1200 Communism has killed far more people than the Nazi's did. Nazi's did a lot of horrible things, but apples and oranges, right? Communism is purely evil.
Also, Hitler was a socialist.
@@Whance_Chilkins Apples and oranges is right. Christianity, the Crusades, Islam, laissez faire capitalism, etc. You can make that argument about any big idea. Even deism had atrocities under Robespierre! Maybe we should condemn that ideology as well, huh? Also, no offense, pal, but believing in Ayn Rand is sillier than waiting up for Santa Claus.
And referring to Hitler as a socialist removes the spurious credibility of anything you said earlier. Anyone with a brain knows that the Nazis only referred to themselves as national “socialists” because they were trying to triangulate the Left in post-war Germany. Communists and Nazis were competing for the same demographic, so it’s simple marketing. Duh. Kind of like the way you call yourself “Communism Kills,” only more sophisticated and effective (though evil). Anyway, I prefer arguing with honest people. You go your way; I’ll go mine.I wish you well.
@@Whance_Chilkins wrong. The dictators killed those people. They weren't communist countries at all.
Power corrups and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Communism has always been victim to this, except in Vietnam (that I have seen). Where the communist party rule the one party state and people are happy, patriotic and far more support a free market system than in the US.
It is a successful democracy and should be a model to other countries. But clowns like to go bananas every time the C word comes up.
This "debate" needs to be condemned, because it is full of academic dishonesty. This video needs to questioned more than listened to.
elaborate
Sure dispute one fact
I love this. It was (and still is) always hard to wrap my mind around what fascism and communism actually mean and how they grow, outside of wikipedia definitions. Great content, subscribed!
The guy on the right using communism, leftism , and socialism interchangeably shows how unbiased he is.
@@PS987654321PS I admit I don't know how to interpret your comment. Anyway, in case it wasn't clear, my previous one was missing the (I thought plainly obvious) /s at the end.
@@vladmitrache6373 😂
@@vladmitrache6373 These reduce to the same flawed institutional design and will repeat the same history. Each call for misappropriation of democracy as an authoritarian state device. The extent and nuance of such a flaw is besides the point. Human rights abrogation is readily predictable from these groups and not avoidable by these groups.
Leftist reject a blanket judgment of their common flaws for lack of applying orthodox philosophy concerning social science and political science. This presents another and dynamic flaw in socialist ideation - it has been outside of the mainstream for 200 years and crucially during the scientific revolution in acadamia.
McDonalds vs KFC, who will clog my arteries first.
Neither. You will.
Genetics decide that
Kfc because everything is fried
@@xenophon5159 only to a certain point. You can have the best genetics in the world, but if chow down on that shit everyday eventually your arteries will clog up.
KFC that's shits disgusting
It doesn't really matter. The end result is the same, they just used different methods to get there.
well said
@Chris Jones not really
Fine: as long as you understand the difference between stalinism leninism maoism socialism Marxism anarchism I’m all ok with that. Problem is people just call anything they don’t like is communism/leftism/badbadevil - seemingly without having any understanding of history or political theory.
@Chris Jones oh.. you’re just not aware of countries outside the US. Gotcha..
Orwell fought with the anarchists in Spain btw. The lines are not blurry or unclear for anyone interested to learn.
@@ptv-live You're either free or you're not. You either have rights or you do not. Anything that isn't Democratic and pro individualism is unacceptable. You can talk all day about how your mud from China is different from your mud from Russia, but I refuse to eat it.
Thank you Lex for inviting me to get more information. Don't know if I love you, but I sure do appreciate your content.
Lex, 1942, the occupied city of Eysk. Nazis gased to death 214 mentally or physically disabled children aged between 4 and 17 years who lived in the local orphanage. That orphanage was evacuated by the Soviets from the city of Simferopol which had been lost previously. Could you feel the difference between Nazies and communists?
“History doesn’t care about your feelings.”
This is like....actually inaccurate... a big part of studying history is interpretation.
Was this event good or bad, why? What should we take from that event? That why is often feelings and identifying what part is valuable is often feelings. Many of the moral aspects of history are about feelings and the person studying the history's feelings.
@@rickmoranis7556 I think history doesn't care about your feeling, but your feelings towards history dictate what you learn (or not) from it
Remember, History was written by the victors. So it kinda indeed care for the feeling, especially the winning side. If Nazi is the one who wins the ww2, or German Empire is the one who win the ww1 the history that is written will be totally different that the current one we own
@@Angelo-nd4lg oh yeah, because the rest of the world doesn't have dictators and/or communists. /s
“Okay, nerd”
Brilliant! Three sharp minds not necessarilly agreeing every point, showing us the importance of understanding history.
I like this format of 2 guests.
Yaron? Sharp? Lol. He sounds no different than a crooked pastor. All dogma and fear, no basis in reality (as is often the case with the “facts don’t care about your feelings” types).
@@morkallearns781 Indeed, he is awful!
@@morkallearns781 ur sad he shit on the ideologies? 😅
Old dude sounds like he doesn't know what communism is. He only knows what governments that called themselves socialist have done.
@@sirairili1570 all libertarians are morons
Lex, having two guests and an experience of "live socratic method" works very well. Fun podcast and lively debate here. 👍
@Kostas Kapasakis The Socratic method is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presuppositions.
@@jims6274 I commented elsewhere that it’s so rare to see today. The magic of TH-cam allows us access to such enlightening and lively discussions in these formats from the 60’s and 70’s, and I feel lex proved himself a worthy moderator, I hope he considers more pods in this style.
@@jims6274 :: Thank you for that explanation for modern ears. I would have lost brain cells listening to Socrates' convolutions, especially translated from Greek !
The fact that they compare these to each other shows that McCarty did his job.
Stalin did a lot of the legwork
@@JimmytheDoctor I don't see the same energy for Jacobins or the USA empire which is the worst thing in human history.Fascism is the corporate state that protect the bourgeoisie .Guys like Stalin and Jacobins are the analogy of ancient tyranny.Aristocracy and tyranny wasn't the same.Tyranny was more "people-friendly".One embargo from China to USA and will become a nightmare with civil war,fascist state,etc.Imagine a poor Soviet Union to has all the planet against them(not only embargo but also the threat of war) it's easy a situation like this to born a phenomeno like Stalinism or Jacobinism.Trotsky has explain it in his work.There are not all in the intellectual and moral level of Lenin or Trotsky to handle a situation like this.Cuba has make a good job under so much pressure, but the revolution must be global there is no other way.
The Red Scare never ended
Lex, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this is easily one of your best interviews ever. And that's bold of me to say, because you've had a LOT of great interviews.
Lex, we need more people like you in this world. Keep doing what you're doing bro!
How about challenging the numbers of these 100 million the two sources are the black book of communism which includes nazi soldiers killed and russian soldiers that died fighting said nazis.
Do you think that's the "evils of communism", not to mention the unsubstantiated claims in the book with no historic or evidentiary backing such as skull pits, death records, etc etc.
Also the gulag archipelago which is a complete fabrication by the author.
"Fascists don't know what fascism is." Gold sir.
@@Gaming-Shed Yeesh.
@@Gaming-Shed Less intrusive government, support of individual constitutional rights, live and let live attitude (just want to raise their family and be left alone). How are these MAGA values 'fascists'?
Also, event the alt right, led primarily by people like Richard Spencer, are for a peaceful separation so they can live in a 'pure society'. Nothing for enslaving anyone. They have literally the same views on race that some on the far left have pushing for segregation by race and viewing people by their appearance.
@@Gaming-Shed if you think the Republican Party is fascist you’re a dam idiot
communists don't know what communism is- the 'holohoax is fake -communism killed far more than fascism
Antifas don’t know what fascisme is you mean
I would like to know his thoughts about Fromm's book on Marx as a humanist. Like a point by point argument.
...there is nothing to learn from Yaron Brook other than 'how being opinionated to this extent makes one wrong about just about everything ' ...and even when Brook is right he is right for the wrong reasons.
COMUNISM IS ON THE LEFT... SOCIALISM IS ON THE RIGHT. ACCORDING TO KARL MARX BACK IN THE 1900s. THESE ARE ONLY THE TWO CHOICES.... AND THEY ARE ONLY THE IDEAS of the LEFT in the USA. BOTH ARE BIG Government like PLANTATION STYLE GOVERMENTS Where PEOPLE ARE LIKE COWS... THE MORE YOU HAVE THE MORE MONEY YOU AS A GOVERNMENT CAN AQUIRE AND TAX. like prostitution of children and women... you can make lots more money when you have lots more of your undocumented workers. BUT... there are more forms of government then just COMMUNISM and SOCIALISM and DEMOCRACIES... WHO USUALLY END UP EITHER SOCIALIST OR COMMUNIST.
FACISM is a tool that a government uses... it is not a form of government. FASCISM is undercuting all of the news and media and tv channels to only allow your scripted media like cnn msnbc abc fox tyt and vox do. only they control what is allowed on tv and its only ideas about how great socialist are and big government democract ideas who own the ideas and hearts of people by putting them in welfare and slave buckets. FASCISt ideas and people who support fascism dont see they are the fascist because they are to big and or control all of the media and quiet the religoius people and freedom to choose a god. IN most cases Fascism is found in comunist democrats or socialist governments... because they use their power to ensure no one else has a voice.
DEMOCRATS are the FASCISt of today who are trying to inch the usa into SOCIALIST ideas and Grandure of owning mexico and canada and their people. they use the usas good will and manipulate their generosity and cause wars with russia to own the people of Ukraine. they practice making killer viruses like covid 19 to make billions of dollors off of the dying people who subit to their medicine thourgh phizer and moderna.
You can learn that people hope for redeeming philosophy to come from Marx even though Marx has been dead a long time and he's not coming up with anything more than the zero contributions recorded in orthodox sociology and economics.
More people need to hear this ☝🏼
I would say all people need to hear this
Why? Because the world of the guy in the blue shirt is black and white and his brain is full of propaganda. This guy is absolutely brainwashed.
@@foshizzlfizzl If you are correct about him being brainwashed that then that is exactly why people need to hear it. So they can recognize the brainwash as you see it, assuming he is brainwashed. Censoring people is a bad road to travel down
@@jaydee5447 I'll give it to you, that's at least an argument.
@@foshizzlfizzl 🙏🏻 appreciate the fact you’re honest enough to recognize that
Imagine if every time someone said fascism is bad and people go “no you are talking about hitlerism” fascism is not bad….. stop making excuses
Literally never seen anyone attempt to deny that Hitler's regime was fascist, and the only people I've ever seen opposing the idea that fascism is bad are the same crowd who claim Hitler was unfairly villainised.
According to your definition, what is "fascism", exactly? Are you advocating for "Mussolinism"? Or something else? A mythical "real fascism" that's never been tried before?
this was very clearly a joke! on how it’s always the people that say that real communism has never been tried. Always Lazily justify the argument by saying it was the clowns accomplished it that made it toxic! (Ex: no that’s Stalinism! Not real communism) as if the first 3 letters make a difference, Clearly Refusing to accept it was the foundation of communism that made it possible for clowns like stain, mao,pol pot! To justify the murder millions of their own innocent people! No one ever tries makes the same argument about hitler. Because clowns who still follow hitler aren’t oblivious to the fact that was in fact fascism for hitler/Himmler to get away with what they did, the third reich was very obviously fascism! Not fucking hitlerism! Just pure malicious fascism! This is mainly because communism isn’t as direct and blatant as fascism! Communism is based on fantasy and Lies.
@@lachlanbell8390 I hear it everyday. The common argument emerging is that Hitler was a Socialist, and that, bizarley, Fascism has never been tried. Same arguement for Communism frankly.
@@AshFarlow Only difference is: Hitler *was* a socialist, but had ethnically targeted values, and on the other hand, Fascism *was* tried and performed - but you know the rest...
Zionists are the root of all misery through communism, Marxism and both world wars
Yaron Brook equivocating Nazism to Communism is the wildest take I've ever heard.
Just regular right wing stuff though
They're both absolutely terrible. But nothing compares to the twisted, backwards double speak of Communism. The Nazis were ruthless genocidal maniacs that were cold and calculated, but to me communism was worse. The amount of mental contortionism required to kill and starve tens of millions in the name of being a more moral society puts it at the Pinnacle of psychopathy.
I have listened few self-help / self-directing lectures and books (Earl Nightingale, Bob Proctor, Master key society, etc.) on youtube which all state pretty much the same thing: "A man is what he thinks" and how the mind/thoughts and will are actually extremely powerful forces that manifest themselves in our "physical" world.
This concept rising in this conversation coupled with fascism and it originating from Kant's phenomenal world (will(power)) was eye-opening and extremely fascinating.
Malice does not let you get away with unfinished thinking haha
When Michael realized Yaron was just going to interrupt he stopped trying to make points (for a few minutes) to make jokes and its such a better way than butting heads.
Yet they still have a conversation not an argument. Lex seems to be a master Craftsman when it comes to crafting these conversations. Anyone ever seen him get bent out of shape with a guest yet? Not that hes immune to it but I bet he meditates lol
not a fan of "Michael" … the truth was spoken by Yaron … interrupting or not interrupting
@@drstrangelove09 LMAO you made it clear thats just cause you werent taking him serious cause his points clashed with your world view
@@grafvonvorneundeinskometen7893 I think that Yaron spoke the truth
@@drstrangelove09 Yaron wouldn't even have come to Israel if his parents weren't Socialists. He probably wouldn't even be alive if the Soviets didn't crush the Nazis.
@@mybirthday1986 I honestly don’t understand your point? Communists have had more deaths and has more widespread terror then Nazism.
Mussolini was a brilliant writer. He translated Nietzsche from German to Italian himself.
That would make him a good translator, not a brilliant writer. He just copied someone else's writing into a different language.
@@cshartley101 I mean, he also wrote himself as well. This is well-known.
@@cshartley101 He was a journalist, director and theorist too. The man also used extremist gang violence to portray himself as mild and the only possible person able to hold the radical fringes of the party (while controlling them). The Italian (theory of tension) was also used in the Cold War, with dubious funding going to both far left and far right terrorrism and Italy remaining solidly at the US's side with a centrist, pro-Church government for decades.
@@gs7828:: Italy didn't have much of a choice as the United States destroyed all Progressive/Communist/Socialist Movements in Italy. They supported "former" Fascists in the Italian government ; just as they supported "former" NZIS in positions of power in Germany after the War. The United States has been "advising" Italy for many, many decades.
"Pro-Church" ?
_YIKES ❗️_
Everytime someone brings up musolini I burst into laughter. That man, his leadership and Italy during fascism were so terrible in every field possible: the military was so bad, unsuccessful and incompetent (trash navy, they made trashiest tanks that the world has ever seen, italian military failed at every task possible...), the idea of restoring the Roman empire could only be done in a dream, the country was in a stagnation...
While it's interesting to hear a different point of view, it's impressive what objectivism can do to a person. Yaron Brooks' simplistic view of history and equivocation between nazism and communism is astounding.
Sometimes, things are simple
And this isnt lol @@Max-kr2nl
There is a saying that an expert does not deal in extremes. Especially in topics where the answer is not definit or depend on opinion and world view.
As someone who is from Russia former Soviet Union I wish The west would teach Stalinism and Communism to the kids in history class and talk about what actually happens to people during those times.
Mass murder thats what happend
I think you and others with your experience must band together and send that message. Otherwise you have trust fund babies delivering empty platitudes. Your experience is fundamental to its impact. Much love and respect to you.
@@Goldie_Hawn_Solo I think his point was contrary to yours if he's advocating teaching stalinism
@@karlmarx7511 Its not contrary. Key part of that is found in the West teaching it. Do you think the West is going to teach pro communism? Yeah...no. Thats not going to happen. The West needs to educate about the Hell on Earth that is Communism and Socialism.
@@Goldie_Hawn_Solo why would they correlate wanting for a actual form of marxist analysis (that is a functioning theory in itself expanded upon lenin and marxs understanding of class relations and in itself the functional capacity of proletarian statehood) with what the west would choose to focus on in education in their own education systems. Do you not understand what stalinism is or how dialectical materialism functions? Like you critique a theory as being "bad" but lack the context to directly address the function of material reality of said theory in practice. You don't understand communism because you haven't spent the time to understand its function. That is text book reactionary thinking.
The Borg is Stalinism, but Star Trek's Earth is Space Communism.
Whether its a Left Boot, or a Right Boot,
It matters not when its on your neck
Until men with power are willing to humble their egos and cease worshiping at the shrine of the self by dropping the powers they wield over large groups of others, powerful men will continue to degrade the others and ultimately themselves through persistent historical violence. Human beings are not an isolated phenomenon from the world around us. Our existence is systemic.
@@shanetoumey2835 or women not women
Excellent conversation! I wish more people would hear this
should have been called "What was worse for Jews" lol But obviously being an accepted citizen in a Socialist Nationalist nation is beneficial to the citizens. Communism is bad for the neighbors and the citizens. Parasitic pressure will let us see these nightmares again I'm sure. The Spanish flu gave us Nazi Germany, Even Mussolini found hand shaking disgusting... I wonder what corona or something worse will bring.
Wow, I can wait to see this debate.... I'm thrilled... We'll need a magnifying lens to spot the differences between these 2.....
Can anyone finish Rand's quote at 1:00.
Here’s the thing with this debate: it’s about investigating totalitarianism. Communism has run far longer in power for a start. Fascism gave us the Holocaust but how many high schoolers know about the Holodamor? Fascism is a type of socialism anyway that differs only in their economic organization and myth preference. .
Economic organisation is the defining characteristic of socialism
Well said.
Fascism didnt give us the Holocaust, Mousollini succumbed to the race theory just prior to WW2, while he himself had a Jewish lover - Margarita Zarfati...
Other than that, i agree that both systems are collectivist, centralized and totalitarian regimes...
@@ShawarMoni Mousollini's definition of fascism is not as widely accepted as palingenetic fascism.
How many people know Churchill caused the Bengal famine which was comparable to Holodamor?
A super important conversation about something that is rarely talked about.
No drama or exploding emotions just matter of fact.
That was really really good !
Thank you so much !
It reminded me of the lively debates of the 60’s and 70’s that we’re now lucky enough to have access to on TH-cam. Where sparks may fly, but the focus remains on topic, allowing for a healthy, lively discourse and exchange of ideas. Would love to see more eps where Lex acts as the moderator of two debating guests, it’s certainly a rare skill set he’s proven he possesses in this video.
Edit: clarification
Rarely talked about? Anti communism is literally part of the curriculum in public school.
@@ZUGZUGGERING maybe where you live, but not here.
@@Peekingduck and where is that?
@Peekingduck it's pathetic how often anti communists play the victim when the holocaust was at its core an anti communist program
How many times did this guy plug his book?
I love the way these two guys argue in such a civil and respectful manner.
African American slavery was infinitely worse than the Holocaust and Stalin was magnitudes worse than Hitler.
Polish people would pray to be captured by Nazis instead of Soviets. Being a Nazi POW meant food and somewhere to sleep being a Soviet POW meant sleeping in the elements and fighting other POWs to death for scraps of bread
@chen661 lost for words... Genuinely.
The gas chambers were odourless and painless... Was the Holocaust even that bad? Such an efficient and humane way to deal with such a problem right?
That's how you sound.
@@skp8748 African slavery was not worse than the Holocaust as people during the Holocaust were systematically murdered compared to slavery where the idea was to keep the slave alive so they would work. Both are horrible crimes against humanity but one is clearly worse than the other
@@skp8748 Hitler killed 50 million people compared to Stalin who killed 12 million. Now tell me how Stalin is worse than Hitler?
@@maxsportsman2416 loool more people died at sea in the transatlantic slave trade...
Yeah sure dying is worse than watching your arm amputated, your wife raped or your child the property of another....
Stupid beyond reason. Holocaust wasn't even four years transatlantic slavery was 400
"I don't know what Stalinism is, and I don't want to know."
Well there you go.
Well if you don’t know. How are you going to avoid it?
@@lucasrackley250 Exactly.
What? If you dont know it then how dare you to oppose it. Basically that's what the entire conversation bases on, both of them dont know anything about communism yet they still talk about it as if they have read every scientific book about communism that have been written
@@du42bz Both of them know very well what communism is, he said he doesn't care for how specifcially stalinism is different from communism.
@@Failzz8 if he doesn't know what stalinism is then he doesn't know what communism is.
Have you ever heard the phrase "throw the baby out with the bathwater"
Yaron Brook vs Slavoj Zizek Will be a blast
Here's a video of basically the same thing (lol):
th-cam.com/video/JJ8I0W9f0LY/w-d-xo.html
@@Experimentaccount1 hahahaha this was great, Slavoj Zizek had to be restrained lol
🤣🤣🤣
FREE ASSANGE!!!!!!
Maybe but zizek is insufferable to listen to because of all the noises he's constantly making
Lex: You are equating COmmunism with Stalinism
Yaron Brooks: I dont know what Stalinism is and I dont care
Oof
I really want a Yaron Brook v Richard Wolff debate.
Your wish has been granted:
th-cam.com/video/VbQ8wL-4HPc/w-d-xo.html
The underpants gnomes is a framework for decision making that has broad utility.
You can put any color sticker you want to on a pile of skulls
Congrats for lex's questions and for pointing out the difference between stalinism and communism
Stalinism was communism. That was some ignorant shit.
If the road to hell is paved with good intentions, I think it's safe to say that no matter how well intentioned you feel that you are, you could be entirely evil. I don't believe, as many do, that good or evil have much of anything to do with intentions.
Thinking, intentional and actions make the man. Good or evil + or - black or white up or down.
How is this a question? This is what decades of cold war propaganda looks like
@Las Vegas Free Press Which corner do you feel safer on when you say something negative about the ruling party, especially when police are closer or farther away?
What killed more, communism or facism ?
From a pure utilitarian standpoint, communism and communists have killed far more people than the fascists.
@@starrattmaster I believe it's a trick question. Both have cost countless lives and are at heart violent ideologies. For some reason one group (idiot democrats) love the idea of communism and call the other group fascist when they are both.
Roman Shumko if you think democrats are actually communist and not just corporatist liberals then you’re truly delusional
"Life and Fate" by Vasily Grossman also deals with this topic. Grossman also elaborates the 'thesis'/statement that these two systems are the same.
So communism is based on a racial worldview that promotes separation of the worlds different peoples to allow them to improve their particular qualities? Please elaborate.
@@agreat8745 You should read the book to understand the full context. But below I'll leave some quotes from the book. The quotes are from a 'conversation' between Nazi Obersturmbannführer Liss and the Bolshevik Mikhail Sidorovich Mostovskoy. Liss shows Mostovskoy the uncomfortable similarities of their respective regimes. All the quotes are from Liss. In sum the thesis goes that in reality/fact both systems were/became totalitarian. Both had the idea of a specific good/Good. Pursuing that good/Good then justifies violence against all people who do not fit to this idea of the good/Good. So, there's nothing more dangerous than a systematic/organized good/Good. Maybe important to note is that Grossman himself was in the beginning also attracted to Socialism/Communism. I'm aware that 'on paper' it's a very 'bold' claim to state that Communism and Nationalsocialism are the same. But again, the problem is that in reality both systems went berserk for a self-proclaimed good/Good (utilitarianism at its worst?).
“‘When we look one another in the face, we’re neither of us just looking at a face we hate - no, we’re gazing into a mirror. That’s the tragedy of our age. Do you really not recognize yourselves in us - yourselves and the strength of your will? Isn’t it true that for you too the world is your will? Is there anything that can make you waver?’
…
‘But you do have something to worry about. You should share my sleeplessness. What is the reason for our enmity? I can’t understand . . . Is it that the Führer is a mere lackey of Stinnes and Krupp? That there’s no private property in your country? That your banks and factories belong to the people? That you’re internationalists and we’re preachers of racial hatred? That we set things on fire and you extinguish the flames? That the world hates us - and that its hopes are centred on Stalingrad? Is that what you people say . . . ? Nonsense! There is no divide. It’s just been dreamed up. In essence we are the same - both one-party States. Our capitalists are not the masters. The State gives them their plan. The State takes their profit and all they produce. As their salary they keep six per cent of the profit. Your State also outlines a plan and takes what is produced for itself. And the people you call masters - the workers - also receive a salary from your one-party State.’
…
‘A red workers’ flag flies over our People’s State too. We too call people to National Achievement, to Unity and Labour. We say, “The Party expresses the dream of the German worker”; you say, “Nationalism! Labour!” You know as well as we do that nationalism is the most powerful force of our century. Nationalism is the soul of our epoch. And “Socialism in One Country” is the supreme expression of nationalism. ‘I don’t see any reason for our enmity. But the teacher of genius, the leader of the German people, our father, the best friend of all German mothers, the brilliant and wise strategist, began this war. And I believe in Hitler. And I know that Stalin’s mind is in no way clouded by pain or anger. Through all the fire and smoke of war he can see the truth. He knows his true enemy. Yes - even now when he discusses joint military strategy with him and drinks to his health. There are two great revolutionaries in the world - Stalin and our leader. It is their will that gave birth to State National Socialism.
…
‘Brotherhood with you is more important to me than territory in the East. We are two houses that should stand side by side . . . Now, teacher, I want you to live for a while in quiet solitude. I want you to think, think, think before our next conversation.’
…
‘There’s nothing idiotic about it,’ replied Liss. ‘You and I both know that it’s not on battlefields that the future is decided. You knew Lenin personally. He created a new type of party. He was the first to understand that only the Party and its Leader can express the spirit of the nation. He did away with the Constituent Assembly. But just as Maxwell destroyed Newton’s system of mechanics while thinking he had confirmed it, so Lenin considered himself a builder of internationalism while in actual fact he was creating the great nationalism of the twentieth century . . . And we learnt many things from Stalin. To build Socialism in One Country, one must destroy the peasants’ freedom to sow what they like and sell what they like. Stalin didn’t shilly-shally - he liquidated millions of peasants. Our Hitler saw that the Jews were the enemy hindering the German National Socialist movement. And he liquidated millions of Jews. But Hitler’s no mere student; he’s a genius in his own right. And he’s not one to be squeamish either. It was the Roehm purge that gave Stalin the idea for the purge of the Party in 1937 . . . You must believe me. You’ve kept silent while I’ve been talking, but I know that I’m like a mirror for you - a surgical mirror.’”
I don’t think anyone who reads that book could possibly defend communism. The scary thing about Vasili though is you can sense in his writing that despite it all - despite what he writes and the undertone. He’s still a communist at heart. He still believes in the doctrines. Reading it changed my life. Before I was left leaning. Tolerant of the theses of equality and social justice that were espoused by my more radical fellows on the left. I now know that as Yoone said it is a fundamentally dangerous and horrifying project which attempts to dehumanise the human individual. And that murderous totalitarianism is a necessary part of it. Life and Fate helped me break away from my intellectual slumber and passive tolerance of radical left-wing thought and activism.
@@Acinavas:: Very, very fascinating to read ! No matter the length ... but you Effed-up with one vital point :: Hitler was not a National Socialist ! Hitler was not a Socialist anything ! Krupp and the industrial class would have purged him with Ernst Rohm.
Your reading Mein Kampf but which translation? Read the Stalag edition if you want to read what he actually said.
Saying evil rly dismisses compelxsity of it all
Great discussion. Very educative...thank you!
zero education... just talk talk talk
what about the elephant in the room? corona fascism that is spreading throughout the world
The subtitle is failed
How to explain scandinavian social democracy? I am norwegian and it works very well. If we say that scandinavian system is a compromise between capitalism and leftist politics, then it would be unprecise to be so categorical about a view of society that's to the left.
No because capitalism is an idea associated with the right-wing of politics. If what you are saying is that because of the success of the Scandinavian model, that somehow leftism is morally, ethically, and empirecally better than the right, it doesn't make sense by your own statement, as you said left and right are balanced in Norway. One cannot claim that the left has a monopoly over ethics - If anything Norway's success is the result of the inherent compromise that arose in Europe between the left and the right over decades following the Second World War and the Cold War.
@@marcomagrin7611:: In order to achieve what they have, a certain maturity AND extreme Northern isolation definitely helps ... to say nothing of the basic homogeneity.
Nice perspectives. I enjoyed this.
Aladdin says capitalism screwed him as he was forced to live in poverty from the day he was born. But under communism he would've had job programs available to teach him how to be 'job ready' when he is mature enough to apply.
Some more gaps filled in my model of the world! 30 minutes well spent.
What I got from this was that Fascism is "positive thinking" as a governing ideology. That makes some motivational posters much more sinister than I remember them.
@@jamiedelorenzo5220 Communism is based on a perceived power imbalance between workers and employers and is attempting to address it. Fascism is based on the will to power philosophy, which is more or less "if you can imagine it, it will bend to your will", which encourages positive delusional thinking and behavior.
@@jamiedelorenzo5220 I was never defending Communism, it's just as dumb.
@@jamiedelorenzo5220 The road to evil is paved with good intentions, that doesn't make it less evil, it just has better excuses.
@@jamiedelorenzo5220I think your issue is me only making fun of Fascism. So here's this:
Communism is tall-poppy syndrome, if someone grows too tall, they chop their head off in the name of equality, but when nobody's tall enough to get the food out of the pantry, everyone starves.
I hold no loyalty to any ideology other than "funny", everything is a target of ridicule for me.
@@jamiedelorenzo5220 It'd be redundant because we already have a name for modern Communists, SJWs. They're known for doing the same things and even using terms from the Soviet Union like the term "politically incorrect", and they embrace it. Like if I poke fun of them for being a commie, they'd just say "yes, and what's your point?".
I love how south parks underpants gnomes are brought up in a serious conversation about communism lol
Shows how little they know
I hate that they avoided the question. Who is more Evil? Thanos or Apocalypse?
Brook brings up Borg as an example of communism in Star Trek, while forgetting to mention the other communist fraction - the Federation.
except the federation isn’t communist. i will not accept this slander lol
CHE6yp :: The Borg is some kind of Collective AI, I think. Straps you of your humanity ! Survives only if all think as one unit ! Yes ! The Borg is the end-game of Capitalism.
The Federation is Futuristic, United States' White Nationalists.
The Federation is “communist” in the loosest of senses, and material basically becoming infinite in Trek would radically shift everything realistically speaking.
The reason socialism never works is because my wife told me , I don't want much but I do want more.
Careful there, her boyfriend might tell her to leave you.
@@AlexsaurusRex 😂
"Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff."
-Frank Zappa
@@malcolmnicoll1165 and think stuff, and see stuff, and enjoy stuff...
@@malcolmnicoll1165 and to eat
"X is a bourgeois extravagance" is my new phrase to everything
Jews are
A bunch of people talking about subjects they don't like, but argue they shouldn't learn about to prevent it.
Yaron’s driving me crazy, but I’m glad to hear him talk.
How you can find Yaron more annoying that Malice I really don't get. He's the kind of guy who's always looking to make a 'smart' comment and have a 'gotcha' moment in a discussion. Complete insecure little weasel. And not that smart at all.
@@zootsoot2006 Right? I kept wanting to hear what Yaron was saying and he kept getting cut off before he could get his point across lo.
@@zootsoot2006 Yes
Yoran made a great point about these collective systems. They all speak in abstracts about the 'workers' doing this, the 'proletariat' doing that. When everyone is in charge no one is in charge, these masses of people will inevitably form some sort of hierarchy or have a spokesman person who will make decisions on behalf of everyone. This is when the authoritarian regime emerges. It's an awful book but I highly recommend people look up the dialogue between Dagny Taggart and the bum in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged because it's a fantastic example of how this collective idea get corrupted instantly and turns people against each other.
What power did the workers gain in the Soviet Union or in China or in North Korea? At what point did they seize the means of production? We don’t pretend every weird little dictatorship is a democracy because they call themselves that. How is it not just out of convenience that we do the same for communism? There has never been communism on a national level. This entire conversation is deeply absurd and stupid
Congratulations, you have discovered the Iron Law of oligarchy, by far one of the most unknown and consistently true concepts in political science, economics and sociology.
Anyone that wants to deal in collective action alone is ultimately defending tyranny. Ignoring the individual paves the path towards misery and violence.
TrophyGuide101 :: Everything Rand thought should always be questioned and debated until a consensus is reached that her brain was full of the shit of bitterness.
We have seen a variety of political/economic and social constructions ... all demonstrating their potential to lead to authoritarianism.
What we have not seen, on a massive scale, is a collective cooperative structure :: full participation ; full debate ; a full and clear understanding of the human values that makes us all human. Once a constitution is written to express our common needs (a Bill of Humanity), articles/chapters and amendments will be easy to establish a constitution based on ::
_I Don't Want That Done To Me and My Family ; Therefore, It Will Not Be Done To You And Yours !_
Fuckin' Exclamation Point.
It's not going to be easy, but a cooperative society, based on similar values of humanity, is worth a try considering our dangerous history.
First ::
Cut the Pentagon's Budget !!
This list can go on for a long time until all topics are discussed -- no matter how much time.
Actually - they are equally evil. What you mean to ask is, which evil system was more effective and devastating in its impact.
I lived in Russia for a year from 2003 to 2004.. I went to Buryat. A woman I met was member of the Komsomol. Communism is "From each according to his ability. To each according to his need" There were times during the Brezhnev era when it kind of worked. This woman was in charge of distributing the small amounts of foreign goods would arrive. There would be a long queue. Some got, some didn't. The problem was the downfall of the whole system. Those left out would often snitch on the ones who got. I hear this happening right now from INSIDE RUSSIA!
Outstanding conversation. Solid riffing by Malice. Very well read.
Excellent chat! Thank you gentlemen!!
26:09 I would like to hear more on this. I feel like he simply just skipped past the answer and also didn't give a solution. Today it seems like companies are set up in an authoritarian way as well. I would like to learn more about this
Do you think Michael Malice is writing an upcoming book?
It's like discussion about difference's between apple pie and peach pie.
Or apple and peach pies (Fascism) vs 💩 (Communism)
20 years ago wish i herd these conversations. Back in the day id sit around a radio in a hobo camp taking Libertarian ideas
i like to hear podcasts when i am going to sleep under my tarp, and ask my self if something like an objectiv truth exist
I think Michael has a book upcoming
one thing: is his book coming up?
I once went there on a date in NYC with a young woman who told me "I know about this really cool bar!" It was called "The KGB Bar."
The walls were adorned with images of Communist propaganda, hammer & sickle images, as well portraits and photos of Stalin and Lenin. Even if it was meant to be ironic (which it obviously wasn't), it was still outrageous and disgusting! I was not impressed, and told my date as much. I asked her if she would go to a bar called the "SS Bar" or the "Gestapo Bar" complete with images of swastikas and Hitler. She said, "Of course not!" and was visibly indignant at the suggestion that there was an equivalence. By the time I got to tallying up the Communist death count, the date was obviously already over. I'd like to think that she learned something from the uncomfortable experience, but I doubt it. She was just another typical 20-something New Yorker. As far as I know, the KGB Bar is still there, glorifying a murderous regime.
Whoa! New Yorker here and I never heard of this KGB Bar!
Now I want to visit, even if out of morbid curiosity.
Wow! That speaks volumes about American culture, education, media, and entertainment.
Do they have ... coupons?
Ugh glad you dropped this deluded youth.
@@overclucker Everyone pays the same
The difference is that fascists work together with capitalists and communism nationalises the means of production
17:00 A. James Gregor has done some great and extensive research about the Marxist origins of Fascism and the exact points in which both ideologies vastly differ.
But fascism isn't a economic system. I don't understand the question