Michael Malice gets emotional discussing the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union | Lex Fridman
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- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Michael Malice: Totali...
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GUEST BIO:
Michael Malice is a political thinker, podcaster, and author.
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The most haunting statistic is that 80% of Russian men born 1920-1925 died fighting in WWII.
@@olekkuvppl they have both often spoken on the evils of the soviet union though....
@@olekkuvppl I had no knowledge of this. I'm not making a point with my original comment, just a stat I remembered reading in high school. Thanks for the info though.
@@olekkuvppl They were talking about civilians , they didn't start anything.
Holy shit, 80%! Jesus fuckin Christ. ...........,............80%. Fuck
@@olekkuvppl you are right, but USSR was the last one after USA, UK and others to get with Hitler. Look up the fascist parades in USA, Henry Ford supporting fascism, etc. The West turned on Hitler only after the war unleashed and Germany really threatening US-UK dominance in the world
The robot gets me to cry . . . I think I know why. Lex seems like the perfect person to open up to like that. He shows no discomfort whatsoever at Michael's display of emotion, he gives him plenty of space and gives his full attention. Offers some tissues with a simple gesture. It shows great sensitivity and speaks to lex's character in my opinion.
Most people today want to be herd but don’t want to listen unfortunately
@@hitmankiller123 I'm not sure if you mistakenly used "herd" instead of "heard" but honestly I think you chose the more fitting word
@@forhealdan yeah I worded it wrong but you’re right 🤙
Lex is a stoic dude.
Russians are built different 😉
@@forhealdan unintentional poetry
No black suit immediately caught my attention. Interview reinforced how blessed my life has been. Your channel continues to impress. Thank you
Bill Whittle in a recent conversation, called Operation Barbarossa THE WORST EVENT in human history. He went on to give the statistics. And now to hear this conversation I am endeavoring to educate myself in what happened the decade before I was born. And I am convinced that just as mediocre men can be monsters in small acts of cruelty, it is apparent that common men can be uncommon heroes in a life filled with small acts of kindness.
My family were Jews from Iraq. I started crying when Michael said that our mere existence shows us that there are happy endings to these stories. God bless my ancestors who suffered for me to have the freedoms I possess today. Let us smile and celebrate. May peace and freedom prevail✌️❤️
I've never seen Michael Malice like this, and it has given me a whole new level of respect for him.
A man whom is capable of empathy, incapable of understanding how war and anarchy are inextricably bound together.
@@Yochillitsthatserious My thoughts exactly.
@@Yochillitsthatserious Governments have been responsible for most of the war deaths. Most of what we call anarchy is competing governments.
@M R dam how can you be such a POS? I dont get it
@@philipvecchio3292 cause anarchy is a myth. Humans will always group together and compete for resources with other groups. Peace is simply rest between fights. War is constant.
Such a genuine and touching reflection on life and hardship. Thank you both immensely.
What a beautiful human moment. You mean a lot to me Malice.
Your mom means a lot to me 😂
Slavic people in world war II had to fight for their lives from the Nazis so they could return to living in a prison, truly a depressing situation
What prison?
Soviet prison
@@Nikodemis slavs were free in soviet union..and they willingly fought for their lives, homeland, and country..
@@bratbrat4473No Slav was free in the Soviet Union. You had no habeus corpus and secret police could arrest you without cause. You could not own private property, open a private business, or travel West. Your political opinions were heavily censored. When the Czechs rebeled, the Soviets squashed their revolution in a bloody manner. Freedom didn't come until the late 1980's with the fall of the Berlin wall.
@@Nikodemis habeus corpus is protection against unlawfull arest. Americans since they introduced espionage act basically suspended the habeus corpus. Furthermore, soviet people had constitutional rights like freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of assembly, right to religious belief and worship. In addition, the Constitution provided for freedom of artistic work, protection of the family, inviolability of the person and home, and the right to privacy. Soviet ideology placed a premium on economic and social rights, such as acess to adequate healthcare, affordable food supplies, housing, education, guaranteed employment etc. Finnaly, I disagree that ownership and private enterprise should be a right..
Very deep. WW2, especially in the East, must have been hell on earth. Thank you for this reminder to be thankful for this moment we live in and to care about others even if we don’t know them
The east was hell on earth well before and after ww2. Germany should have never gone west and the world should have stayed out of it.
"Our quarters were wrecked, and there were corpses littered about everywhere. We covered the German dead with tarpaulins; with the Cossacks we took off their felt boots and caps, as well as their pants and underpants, and put them on. We now moved closer together in the few houses still standing. One soldier had been unable to find any felt boots, which were an excellent protection against the cold. The next day he found a Red Army corpse frozen stiff. He tugged at his legs, but in vain. He grabbed an axe and took the man off at the thighs. Fragments of flesh flew everywhere. He bundled the two stumps together under his arm and set them down in the oven, next to our lunch. By the time the potatoes were done, the legs were thawed out, and he pulled on the bloody felt boots. Having the dead meat next to our food bothered us as little as if someone had wrapped his frostbite between meals or cracked lice" -- Willy Peter Reese, A Stranger to Myself.
Malice gave a great interview
Great line at the end the robot gets me to cry
He's not a robot, it's just most of the time he's happy (satisfied?) to be talking to interesting people, at least when he's recording.
@@jimluebke3869 He is a robot. It's been proven by the Turing test.
"All of the sudden, in my tears of sadness, I feel a luckiness I've never come to realize...."
-Me, Now
What is this song called?
As a finn with great grand parents who took up arms against the soviet union i can relate so hard with Michael.
"We" thought the red army was gonna come in and end our way of life, replace it with some soviet utopia - more like dystopia - and round up those who weren't about to submit to their totalitarianism and ship them to gulags or outright slaughter them.
Then The Winter War happened.
Yep - baltic here, deportations to siberian death/labor camps of all who didn't submit to the totalitarian soviet machine were rampant. Sadly, a lot of this goes forgotten, since for example only the generation of my grandparents truly remembers these events or lived through them directly. The rest remember it as it was told to them in stories or via history.
@@SnakeHelah Ukrainians can more than vouch for this, as in their case, these slaughters/deportations date back *centuries* (literally)
Much respect to the Finns! You fought to save your way of life and won!
@@SnakeHelah That's exactly it, the soviets tortured my great grandfather to death beyond recognition, and threw him in a mass grave.
My grandparents from Latvia and Lithuania sought refuge in nazi Germany of all places, because the soviets put 25% of the population in Gulags.
Great point
Wonderful talk. Incredible editing choices, too.
This interview was great.. especially this moment.. my heart goes out to you both 💞
unimaginable human suffering, the equivalent in the USA would be 80 million dead.
crazy
Did you ever study and try to examine how close to hell your mind can reach?
That ratio for the Khmer Rouge would be 100 million killed but nobody care to intervene just like North Korea now. When your tears dried up you just let it be and let God sort it out. Yeonmi Park seem to be done with tears. Strong lady.
Equivalent would be if US allied with 3rd Reich 2 years prior just like USSR did something that both Friedman and Malice forget for some reason
It was more than 80 million dead on the eastern front. The suffering was unimaginable, you can't relate it to America, we don't know the true numbers now and we never will. The eastern front of the second world war was the deadliest conflict in all of human history.
I am German and was deeply moved by the emotional reaction of Mr. Malice. It reminded me of the emotions that a friend of mine, a Jewish-French girl born in the 80s, showed during a talk about the Holocaust. Her grandparents died in Ausschwitz and although she didn't experience their suffering herself, you could clearly see that such traumas are multi-generational. Also, nobody could tell better jokes about nazis and jews like her, LOL. Seeing the Russian uniforms as a slapstick element in this serious interview, I guess comedy and tragedy really share some roots.
A great friend you got there man
Propaganda is a powerful thing.
9 out of 10 fatalities in WWII were not Jewish.
@@BST-lm4po no crap, that would be Russians.
The roots you speak of between a comedy and tragedy is the the fact that a character was given the same set of bad cards but depending on how they choose to interpret it is the difference. If you choose to let the world effect who you are then it’s a tragedy but if you if you do your best to stick your heart on the line despite the fact that you can get hurt and feel more suffering is more inspiring and changes the world in a positive way even if you don’t succeed. If a hero dies his death wasn’t worthless it has meaning…
I already liked these two guys, but this exchange gives me tremendous respect for them. I didn't even know Michael Malice wasn't born in the US. Thank you guys for keeping these stories in the forefront. I'm extremely grateful for my life and family despite challenges. This allows me to see the bigger picture. We're so undeserving of this life. Why do some of us get things so easy while others suffer their entire lives?
I love learning about warfare. I'm not a veteran, I'm need in the private sector, but it is utterly fascinating. There is no greater drama of humanity than war. Of all the battles I've learned about, all of them pale in comparison to Operation Barbarossa and the preceding Nazi invasion. The death, stakes and pure evil is incomparable to any other event in history in my opinion. It is arguably more important than the American Revolution
There's only one way to "learn", and believe me, you don't want to.
More men died at Stalingrad than the entire Western Front and Africa combined.
Preceding invasion? My man Barbarossa WAS the invasion.
Unfortunately the west always undermines suffering of the Russians during ww2
What is the name of the song?
June 22
m.th-cam.com/video/i6r1S_JXVO8/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUL0LjRjtC90YwgMjI%3D
Lmaoo “the robot gets me to cry what the fuck is going on” 😂 that’s pretty funny
Makes u realize how frivolous most of our problems are.
I know there's a lot wrong with Russia as there is with all countries to different degrees. But my heart goes out to the people for the historic hardships they've endured for centuries. They're tough people who some might say need tough leaders.
This happened what year?
Does anybody knows name of song
The whole eastern block lost tremendous amount of men fighting for the allies. Serbia lost 1/3 of its population in ww1. When the nazis and croation ustase nazis came to villages in serbia and bosnia in ww2 peopke felt the same thing that michael is explaining. My grandmother And people in bosnia explained to me the horror. On the hunger part i remember my grandfathers cousins saying to me that he never feared any man. The only thing he feared was being hungry.
Romania was always with the Nazi's
Serbia and Bosnia were never eastern block. You're correct, though about the numbers. The Germans were killing everything in sight in Central Serbia in retaliation for any killed german soldier. Also the Serbs and Romas were victims of holocaust in Croatia. About 400,000 Serbs died in Jasenovac concentration camp. To put things in perspective there were about 6 million of them in Yugoslavia at the time, so about 7% of the entire Serbian population.
@@JelenaVM eastern europe is what a meant. And it was 750000.
Chetniks in east Bosnia were worst. Belgrade was the first "judenfrei" city in Europe.
@@MatkoBrane-oq3jk yeah sure bud sure
Pretty wild seeing Malice like this. Love ya Mike and Lex you're both amazing in your own ways, keep doing what you're doing.
In some weird way I can correlate that to the people in Japan/Nagasaki that were walking the streets and going on about their lives when all of a sudden in a flash,the city is gone and majority of the people were too... there are a lot of sombering moments like that throughout the war
The bombs weren't a surprise attack. Neither was Pearl Harbor. Or so I've heard.
@@mrkatmandroog america had some knowledge that japan was planning something,they just didnt believe the japanese were smart enough or had skilled enough pilots to plan and execute a bombing on a us naval base..let alone multiple us bases all within 24 hours... idk if japan had any knowledge of what was coming their way,and even then it took 2 bombs for them to begrudgingly surrender
@@mrkatmandroog It was definitely a surprise attack. The leaflets that are often talked about were always dropped in multiple cities so nobody could predict which city would get attacked next and set up defenses.
Whats song name
That's why it's so hard to teach kids to avoid your mistakes because some things cannot be known without experience. You can't make someone know what it feels like. It's not that they don't try to know what you are going through they just can't.
I know this comment is old, but well said!
Wow. What a powerful interview. Love you guys !
Thank you! Great content. Maybe add some personal general info about the guest for our quick knowledge. It helps to put the words in context 🙏🏽
can someone name the song?
22 Июня Ровно в четыре часа.... Here is a good performance: th-cam.com/video/6w5SjDLD_5Y/w-d-xo.html
Edit: the name in English translates something like "On the 22nd of June at exactly 4 o clock"
Lex's emotions are more Russian than the Kremlin. P.S I get the same emotional response as Michael when talking about German occupation in Greece, more than 300.000 people died from Starvation. In total 806,922 Greeks died during a 4 year period. 806,922 out of 7 milion that lived in the country. Just imagine 1 out of 7 Greeks died.
This chat was very humbling. I'd love to see Lex talk with Russell Brand.
Yess big big yes to Russell Brand!!
yess
Just curious how does this relate to Russel Brand at all?
Agreed. Russell has been killing it lately.
Hell yeah love Russell
It would be very interesting to hear a conversation with you and someone with similar exposure to the slavery events..
The war also offered a chance of escape for the Baltic Swedes which was a large historical minority in the Baltic countries.
In 1944 when the front turned again they where given the option to escape to Sweden and resettle there and almost the entire minority did so.
I’m a proud American, but my respect goes out to those folks that had to fight for their literal lives. Russians are a very resilient people.
I traveled to Kiev in February 2020 before the lockdowns. That country has been through so many undeserved hardships and pain. It wasn’t just the Nazis invading that country, the Soviets caused unimaginable pain to that country as well.
Perhaps not the best time of the year to be visiting Kyiv but hope you still enjoyed it. Cheers from Kyiv
Turks also tried to push in that region.
Britain and France did in the Crimean war.
The Khazars and the Tatars were menaces when they were based round that area.
The pale of settlement ensured domestic antagonisms would plague Ukraine/Russia.
Hunns and Mongols terrorised the region.
The region is just brimming with drama.
I'm doing a 72 hour fast n this perspective makes the hunger easier to handle. I can have whatever I want when this fast is over. Some people didn't/don't. I feel a sense of gratitude n empathy (for now at least) from hearing this clip
@@bigpicturethinking5620 it wasn't terrible but I was definitely glad I got to eat... Are to much 😅
This interview is a good example of how we use snapshots and anecdotes of history to build a story about ‘us’ and ‘them’. All of written and handed down history is ONLY a tiny bit of what actually happened.
The Robot made me cry. I could write paragraphs how much this podcast was/is cool.
“I don’t chose whether I should go into battle based on the force presented before. But based on what I am defending and what I hold sacred to me”
-Knez Lazar of Serbia 1389
The hell is this? Ah yes, that peaceful and bucolic time being in the Soviet Union between 1917-1939.
Communists are total morons.
This Was Extremely Touching.
This is very important talks. Thank you for sharing your families testimony Mr. Malice...(obviously not the entirety of).
Powerfully painful...but still needs a voice, your loved ones need to be heard...and even more so, ears to hear these truly sad stories!
Please write a book about your families...both of you...I guarantee you, I won't be the only one who purchases...this is why history is important, not because it happened, but because its deeply personal...and people need real today...so tired of people denying any kind of history, for whatever delusion or one-dimensional brain wave lame-o excuses they succeed in limiting themselves to.
Anyways, these testimonies and tragedies should be told, no matter how difficult or painful they are to tell.
((Its difficult for me to understand how some people deny the Holocaust ever happened...no matter how many of these painful stories are told))
Again thank you for sharing your pain and difficulties regarding traumas clearly felt well into 2nd and 3rd generations.. I mean well from my comment.
Tears...although they are mostly from pain, should be shed more...because it's ok to. Thank you for showing your heart...sometimes the brain, being seen all the time, we forget what makes us powerful and beautiful...the heart speaking about its truth.
Thank you for this clip, deeply appreciated.✌🏼❤
Not defending North Korea regime at all here but lets point that the 90s hunger was not caused by US sanctions , but US sanctions prevented Korea to access to internationnal markets to buy food and whatever needed goods to avoid deaths.
North Korea had no resources to exchange for food in the 90s. Sanctions or not they had no capacity to “buy food” from international markets.
@@JT-bc5cd The point is not did they had the money or not to by food , but because of the US sanctions they could not borrow the money from international markets to supply their needs .
@@Daclaem You think the North Korea would have been credit worthy after the fall of the Soviet Union?
Made me be a little more thankful
I’m 40+ and this is the best way I’ve been exposed to the hardships that other humans have been threw and his right we put other people in groups like dog eaters so we can look down on them and not see how they can be us tomorrow or a year from now or ten years from now or 50 years from now
Also what a great segment hope it opened up a lot of eyes in all countries
What's the purpose of that uniform?
I may not be able to understand what it's truly like Michael, but I'd bet my bottom dollar it's terrifying.
about the czech camp getting killed off, that happened sometimes when the germans were retreating and didnt want to leave evidence
Michael Malice is honestly one of the best people I’ve listened to
Truly enlightening
18:10 Stalin was so lame they didn't draft him during WW1 even when they were drafting anything that moves and can hold a rifle. He was actually disabled.
iditot
Stories like this need to be told, and retold, so that future generations know and understand the dangers of totalitarianism.
Theyll know. Its a cycle.
They’ve already forgotten
Wow awesome discussion
Suddenness of 1941 for soviet citizens is REALLY overstated by much later created content.
= In 1940 it was introduced de-facto wartime regime on factories with unauthorized firing punished as defection
= in 1941 they did x4 draft
= In the previous 4 years USSR had 3 military campaigns(against Japan, Poland and Finland) and 4 military-pressured annexations(Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Bessarabia)
= Soviet propaganda was extremely militarized, centering on the future invasion of capitalists
Like...the only surprising thing could be on how did that war went not in USSR favor
Yes, quite surprising that Red Army did so poorly in 1941 overall given their sheer mass of everything and the fact they were defending.
Lex Fridman is the James Lipton of podcasts.
Beautiful moment of something real
This is very moving. Thank you, Lex.
A lot of veterans know the feeling he's talking about. I've definitely been in places where thousands of people wanted me to die.
Like Iraq? You deserved it.
@@chriscarlone527 nope but thank you very much, you're quite right. I absolutely deserve it. No actually, I earned it. I'm glad you're enjoying your freedom of speech as provided by folks like me.
@@beeb6809 lmao like we're the only country on Earth that guarantees freedom of speech as a right? Most countries do. You protect nothing different from most of the rest of the world. Get off your high horse. You're a paid mercenary. Nothing more. We invaded Iraq, Vietnam, the list goes on, on lies. Absolutely baseless lies and out of fear. Maybe if you had the moral courage to fight the people doing the harm instead of working for them I could respect you, but you're not much better than they are. It's only when your family is on the line, and your children have weapons pointed at them, that you would finally understand the pain and suffering the United States has caused so many people the past six decades.
@@chriscarlone527 First, who is we? I'm assuming you mean the US but i never said what country I was talking about. No, the US is not the only country with freedom of speech but do you think those other countries don't have militaries and police as well? How exactly do those other countries guarantee safety and freedom if not by presentation of force? No, our government is not perfect but the many many many people who have put their lives on the line have done so for other people's kids, for other people's families, for other people's safety. Until you've had bullets flying past your head or held people's lives in your hands, you can talk all you want about "courage" and it's nothing but talk. It's ok to just admit it's not the thing for you and to still respect those who have done it literally for your benefit. Look at you on your moral mile-high horse thinking you know everything about everything. Well, you forgot to list Korea and that's where I got sent. You probably couldn't even point it out on a map without labels, I doubt you know a single thing about it.
@@beeb6809 I know where it is. I've been to South Korea. You're still not a hero for serving the state.
I watched this episode on 4/1/24. I was so confused…
20:18 "The robot gets me to cry"
“There is only so much I can do as an individual” Oh the irony
There is a little bit of mystery about Stalin's reasoning for preparations and weaknesses in preparations in the 2 weeks before the 1941 invasion. This is in part because it's well known that at least in purely short term strategic defensive terms, the Soviet forces were caught under-ready for the invasion when it happened.
One issue is how certain was Hitler to invade. The closer that the June 22 date came, the more solidly Hitler enshrined his invasion plans. The farther that the invasion date went past June 22, the more likely the Wehrmacht would come up against the Russian Winter. Additionally, Hitler still about a day before the invasion could have rescinded his invasion decision.
Stalin must have considered both Hitler's likely reactions and the reactions of Western potential Soviet Allies (US and UK), as well as the Soviet public, depending on how strongly Stalin raised his defensive forces in the weeks before the invasion.
Suppose that Stalin raised his forces strongly, sent them into the trenches and manned AA guns in the frontal regions of the country in mid-June 1941. In that case, Hitler could potentially have called off the invasion, which would be a bad outcome for Stalin if Stalin rightly knew that he was likely to win the war. Alternatively and more likely however, Stalin wanted to at least delay the war with Germany, so getting Hitler to call off the attack would have been a good outcome.
On the other hand, sending his forces into the trenches, handing out full ammo, fueling the tanks, etc. had the downside that Hitler would likely try to use that as a pretext for justifying the German invasion. And indeed Hitler did try to claim that the USSR was about the invade Germany, in Hitler's June 1941 public war announcement. But both the Soviet public and Western Allies didn't buy Hitler's "Preemptive War" argument.
"the robot gets me to cry" *cries*
Germans lacked food on the 20's but who wants to talk about that? Strong people are not persuaded by emotional reactions.
shhhhhhhhh, its "one day, for no reason at all"
oh yea humans are known for thinking very rational when they are starving
This is going to age like wine.
Thanks for this interview we need to know how lucky we are!!!
2 brilliant gentleman.
We are undeniably lucky with our circumstances. I really needed to hear this gentleman thank you so much for just speaking.
19:36 Please meme this
Did he say “the robot gets me to cry”? Hilarious!
Most of us are here today because our ancestors paid the price and made enormous sacrifices to make it happen.
The level of both of these guys content lately is amazing. The world needs the both of you.
When I your opinion Mr. Malice is the time to step in to help people out of these horrid environments
And this is extremely dangerous to our democracy ;)
I go through the same feelings being a Plains Native.
Stalin and Mao reminiscing about their peaks I see
It was the Red Army not the Russian Army don't be politically correct Michael
Malice’s comments and pain hit deep. I don’t agree with his political hermeneutic, but damn our way of life if we are so heartless if we don’t heed the pain his family suffered. Respect Mr. Malice.
what can we do about north korea?
It’s good when you speak and understand Russian.
We fought the wrong enemy in WW2.
The fact is that when Soviets took Lviv from Poland in 1939 it was the same like nazis taking it in 1941 they were both murdering a lot of people so making Soviets like they were the savior is a bit too much. Also, when soviets were retreating from Lviv in 1941 they were killing anyone they saw on the streets of Lviv and all the political prisoners (which were mainly educated Ukrainian people) were berried alive.
You're defending literal n*zis with your 'soviets were bad too'. Sheesh. No, no, it wasn't 'the same'.
Lmfao "the robot gets me to cry on a podcast" this was one of the best interviews.
Mediocre person with a little bit of power is the key takeaway from this. So on point.
I believe in Bob lazar
@@damien1065 cheers brother thanks for the reply
Just an added thought.. such a crazy world we live in when basically half the population thinks that the "Bad Orange Man" is Hitler reincarnated.
the robot gets me to cry... lol so funny
As someone who also has had family living in Russia Ukraine during ww2 this was also quite a emotional video
Sorry. I could not finish the video. The pain of that war is still very alive in my family after all these years. My family never encountered the Nazis. We were on the pacific front, and faced the Japanese. If I'm still around in 50 years, perhaps then I can watch this video without the repressed pain welling up in my spirit.
One of my favorite exchanges.
Any clip of them talking about palestine in their interviews? Or anywhere else?
It just confuses me a little that when talking about “testimony” and “even more important” Michael is not talking about the testimony to those who fought, gave their lives and defeated Nazism - that is, the Russian people.
The Americans didn't think the Vietnamese were going to come and kill them, but the Vietnamese children knew that the Americans were going to come and napalm them. That's the parallel maybe should have been used.
I still get emotional when I watch the "passion of christ" and millions killed in all world wars and operations where elite used our differences to turn people against each other to fulfill their greed and agendas
@Jed Kaczyinski lol I get tired of all these people claiming victim when Christians are probably the most persecuted of any religion and for years American Christians have been manipulated to go fight and die for wars of special interest. The last war America fought that actually benefitted Americans was in 1776 every war since has been for special interest. In America it seems we have a 2 party system one who serves China and one who serves Isreal NONE That serve Americans especially Christians. You ever notice how everyone can talk down on every religion but one. If adl can go around censoring everyone they disagree with and call them anti sem why can't Christians start censoring them Hollywood and everyone else and call them "Anti-christ" if you're not America first you're anti American and if you're not Christian your Anti-christ. If we are all going to play victims let's even the playing field and call out all B.S. not just one sided B.S. ya know? 🙏🇺🇲🌎
The soviet union was an aggressive power that showed no mercy to eastern poland, Bessarabia, Finland and the baltic states. All before the German attack......remember that