Thanks for a great video. I recently acquired a used XL650 after having a LNL AP for 10+ years. IMO the XL650 is much easier to work with especially the priming and powder systems.
the beauty of the internet is your 2 1/2 year old video is still giving great advice. I've spent so much time looking at both of these I wondered if I was missing something. Now I'm 99% sure I'm just going to get the Dillion 550 - thanks again
Can't complain much about my Hornady LNL. I had an issue with primers getting stuck and locking the press. But after examining the problem, it was solved in 5 minutes with a Dremel tool by rounding an edge on the primer slides. Since then, it works like a charm. I love the priming system. When I ordered the press and compared prices to Dillon, the LNL was a no brainer. Changing calibers is also much easier and faster if you have to switch the primer size. On top of that, you only need a cheap powder measure drum insert for each caliber or you simply use just one and adjust it. Due to the LNL system you can leave the powder measure in place when switching calibers. I agree that the Dillon case feeder is far superior. But the Hornady one works fine for me most of the time. The key is setting it up correctly. But you still get the occasional dropped or jammed case here and then. I had used the Dillon XL650 before buying the LNL and liked it. But I still went for the Hornady and never regretted it. I love the simple mechanical function of it. Even I as a mechanical illiterate understand how it works and can fix most minor issues it may have. But aside from the primer feeder (which was an easy fix) and the suboptimal case feeder I hardly ever had any real issues. I would buy the LNL AP again at any time. But I would also not mind getting a Dillon XL650 should I find an occasional bargain. I would probably use it for 9mm Luger only as switching calibers (including primer size) isn't fun and gets pricy.
Thanks for posting this. I genuinely appreciate your time and perspective. That being said, with the current ammunition and component squeeze it bears saying: You can buy a Dillon today. It'll take a couple of weeks to ship. You can buy the Dillon dies today. They'll ship in 11 months. You can buy the Hornady today. It'll ship today. You can buy Hornady dies today. They'll ship today. I hope things change soon, but I don't anticipate that happening.
Just inherited one of these and found 20,000 primers and shell casings and bullets my dad had after he passed away 😞 so I must say I'm now emotionally attached to this dillion 1050. Thanks for the awesome video 😊
For real, this is an actual problem in our community lol.. Nothing like seeing some moron that speaks to fast slow down long enough to have fully enunciated "HornuhDAY".. its like saying toe-mah-toe. It's its like, its truly not spelled the way you say it fool.
This video is such a great comparison of these 2 machines. Like you I have both and absolutely concur with your opinion. I do feel once you tweak the Hornady LnL it’s a much easier press for the beginner reloader. Great video.
The Hornady is a great press if you know how to tune it up properly. Until I learned I had issues with the priming system but after learning more about how it works it is a finely tune machine. My final opinion is both are good but for the everyday loader, loading for recreation Hornady can not be beat. You get a lot of press for very little and I have not mentioned that Hornady parts are easy to fine if needed. I on rare occasion have had something break and Hornady replaced my part no questioned ask and shipped in few days. Again for the money it’s Hornady all day long. In fairness I do not own a Dillion but have several Hornady AP presses. I was looking at the Dillion as an additional press but after adding all the extra items to make it work the price was more than double for the Dillion.
All I've ever owned with regard to progressives is Dillon. It's interesting to see how the other manufacturers go about doing the same thing and hearing the pros and cons of each. Thank you for the upload.
Good video, I have had the Hornady I just started running into problems one after the other. But I have to say I used it a lot and the people at Hornady are great when you do have a problem. I eventually decided to spend the money to get a Dillon xl 750. It's a nice press and I like it. It really doesn't matter which one you have, you will eventually have a hickup and you will need to figure it out. I have to say I have never used a case feeder on either. If I had them both sitting side by side and was only going to keep one of them I would choose the Dillon. Don't shy away from the Hornady though because when it's running good it's pretty awesome.
Thanks for the video. I've been using a RL550B/C for ~25 years and love it. Caliber changes: I do go ahead and buy a tool head and powder measure for each caliber. A little pricy up front but makes changing calibers quick and easy.
I guess I got lucky with 2 Hornady LnL AP presses. I have one set up for large primers and one for small primers. Between both presses, I have loaded north of 30,000 rounds in 9mm, 357 mag, 40 S&W, 10MM, 44 Mag, 45 ACP, 223 Rem and 308 Win. I have caliber set ups for each of those, including the lower powder die. Takes less than 5 minutes to swap calibers and most of that is verifying the powder charge. I have had no,problems with either of the 2 presses except the one set up for small primers. It loads the most rounds and I occasionally have to adjust the pawls to re-time the press. I want to get case feeders for both now. These 2 presses replaced an RCBS Pro2000 press. The RCBS was okay, but I absolutely hated the strip priming system. Had nothing but problems with that system. Dillon presses may be great, but I will stick with what I have and am accustomed to. Both presses are great systems.
I have both also but do most of my rifle reloading is on my old single stage RCBS because of the brass growing on rifle rounds. My only real issue with the Dillon is the primer feeding system and on my 2 Hornadys it is an easy adjustment. There are good things about each press but I must admit I don’t have all the bullet feeding equipment on my presses because of primers not seating properly in my brass and I have found sometimes more equipment means more headaches and I reload for the enjoyment. For Prairie dogs I like to build specific loads for each gun. I shoot 204, 222, 223, 22-250 at dogs out too really long ranges if the wind is not blowing. That is what reloading is all about, shooting dimes at over 200 yards!!
Had an RL550b and it seemed that Dillon was forever causing me to spend money. I loaded a lot of ammo with it but in the end I sold it and went back to a single stage. I’m really looking at the Hornady LNL as a progressive after looking and listening for many years.
LNL AP has the ability to use as a single-stage or two-stage for rifle, as I can put in a universal de-priming die then neck die it to round the mouth for off press wet tumble, trimming, and swaging operation. Then back to press for sizing, priming, powder, bullet seat and crimp. For pistol, I still like to de-prime first then wet tumble gets the brass primer pocket like new. With Dillion, you would need 2 tool head or another single stage press. My LNL AP came adjusted and never fussed with the timing, powder drop or the primer feed. The only issue is the plate screw comes loose. I tried a split washer but it put uneven pressure on the plate and caused issues. So I just check the plate screw every 20 or 30 cases. I recently upgraded the powder tube to the Dram Worx as the powder was clouding and deforming the plastic tube. The upgraded handle is also way better than the ball handle.
Would a dab or blue loctite help hold the screw from backing out? Not a lot just a tiny bit . or is that a screw that needs to come out more often than not? (I don't own either of these yet just checking pros/cons of each system and looking further into questions of others)
Blue! And for caliber changes I reload for 6 different calibers and I have 1 powder measure. When I change it is two Allen bolts. The die stays with the tool head and that is what holds the setting for that caliber
Chad that and the powder bar. I’m doing it same way. One powder measure, dillon powder die on each toolhead and powder bar for different caliber. Cheapest solution and quick to change.
I had major issues with Hornady Lock N Load. I had constant problems with primer feeding system, had to buy after market plastic part for it and rig up the cam wire. Also have to constantly adjust the timing by using the Paws. I can't wait to get a Dillon. I should have paid the extra money, it would have saved me countless hours tinkering with the Hornady.
Great video... I thought I made a mistake starting with the Hornady LNL... For me the only major was the priming system.. Bought one of the Lee processing press's for production priming,
Good review showing the pluses and minuses of each system. I have both as well, and have reloaded thousands and thousands of rounds with each. I don't have any major issues with either one. Those fanboys who champion either one with no objective criteria as to why are a waste of time to read or view.
I had a number of problems initially with my Hornady LNL AP. By far, the thing that made me the most unhappy was the amount of final machining I had to do on the moving parts of the press. I had to spend hours with a file smoothing the sub plate and case feed slider to get them to slide properly against one another. After spending a substantial amount of money on the press, I was infuriated that I had to do the final fit and finish work. I had problems getting the case feeder to drop cases properly, and to this day I have periodic problems with the cases popping off of the press after being dropped in front of the slider. The primer feed mechanism is very well designed and works nicely. The bullet feeder is also well designed and works very well. I replaced the handle with an ergonomic one from Inline Fabrication. The original handle is nothing to write home about - just a straight rod with a ball on one end. After a whole lot of troubleshooting and aggravation, the press now works pretty well. But as with any device with moving parts, you are going to encounter problems from time to time. Cost was by far the largest deciding factor for me between Hornady and Dillon.
After reading tons of reviews on the Hornady LNL AP I've come to the conclusion that Hornady must have quality control issues. Glad to hear you got yours humming nicely!
Great video!! Thinking about getting back into reloading. I had the Hornady press back in the early 90's. Which one did you go with? Also, any thoughts on the Mark 7 Apex 10??
Had a Hornady for 10 years and had to modify it so much to make it work consistently. Primer feed problems, indexing, etc. Once I eliminated the primer system things were a bit better and it allowed me to arrange my dies in the order I like. Finally bit the bullet on a Dillon 650 and all those problems disappeared. It just works. And, it comes with a great lifetime warranty and customer service Yes, it is more money but like many say.."buy once, cry once". The priming system is the weak link in virtually all progressive presses, so pick your poison.
I never haven't any problem with primer system on my loadmaster. But i don't like rotation system on it, so I want something what works smoothly. I think hornady is what i need. Or not?
Great comparison, I’m a Hornady owner, very pleased but needed a ton of little hacks. Now runs easily 5 or 600 per hour. Best hack make a bracket to anchor the case feeder to the wall behind the press. All but eliminates the case jam at the funnel
can you elaborate on your solution or point me in the direction of said solution? I am contemplating getting the Hornady Ammo Plant kit but heard this is an issue especially with 9mm which I have about 3k brass for.
great video. im looking at getting into more bulk reloading and not just on a single stage press. watched a lot of reviews and really coming to this conclusion. Hornady for rifle .223, .308, and .243 but for pistol/revolver in 9mm and 257 mag the dillion square deal B seams the best option. i will definitely be reloading more pistol any how. so will start on the dillion. maybe change my mind on the hornady later but it looks more like the cost saving press from moving between calibers
Great review Brandon. I am torn between these 2. Which one would be better loading 9mm. Maybe in the future load 30.30. Thank you for making this video. Cheers
I have not had an issue with my Hornady priming system. I do not use a bullet or brass feeder. I’m convinced that if you are placing brass and bullets you simply can’t beat the Hornady at its price range. The only issues people have with the Hornady that I have seen is with the case feeder and bullet feeder systems.
Well done, Brandon! I've had a LNL AP for a few years and love it. Last year I got a XL650 and concur with your observations completely. The Dillon certainly has the appearance of quality. They both have their nuances but one thing for sure, the Hornady is by far more economical to load multiple calibers with. Thank you, for sharing.
Great video review! I think some of the things you say you didn’t like about the Dillon are actually a better design, however, I don’t like the primer feed on it either. Both are great reloaders, but Hornady is the better deal between the two. Dillon loves raising their prices every year. I do love having easy access to the round in each stage on the hornady too.
I haven't bought either of these yet, but one thing I like about the Dillon is that once you dial in your dies, you can swap to another caliber on another tool head and back without having to fine-tune you're dies to the proper depth again. Yes you have to buy the tool heads but that's the cost of convenience. For further reference I'm looking at the XL 750. Not the 650. Either way, thanks! Informative video
Well...…. it's been a month, I have some of the bugs worked out of the Hornaday L&L. I set it up for 38 special, I called and spoke with one of Hornaday's Techs who was very helpful and very generous with his time on the phone and I do thank Hornaday for that. By the way, I am NOT using the bullet or case feeders. I was able to get the machine running rather smoothly except for the powder dump, which I took apart , polished all the surfaces and tried the screw plug in every position as instructed to do by the Tech. It still sticks in the up position causing squib rounds if I don't watch it very very carefully. I feel that all that linkage on the powder dump is the culprit and yes, I made sure it was lined up nice and straight and it was clean and free of obstructions. I ultimately removed it from the machine and installed a Lee Auto Disk Powder Measure that seems to work well. I ordered a new hopper for an old Dillon powder dump I have under the bench, when it arrives, I will give it a whirl and report back, It's and older one without the pulldown rod so I will install two or three return springs on it and maybe a couple of strong rubber bands as well. I will figure out some way to cross that bridge when I come to it. Every now and then when I try to run the machine too fast, the loaded round will hang up on the ejector wire, but not often enough to complain about it. This press is still one of the older machines and Hornaday has remedied this on their newer machines. All and all, I have reached a much better opinion of the L&L than I had when I sent that other Machine back to Hornaday 20 years ago. I have a great deal more experience today than I did back then. My advise to the beginner reloaders out there is to wait until you have a couple of years of loading every day under your belt before buying a progressive machine , Progressive reloading is not for everyone, even well experienced reloaders can have a lot of difficulties with progressive machines. I also have two Dillon 550B, and one Dillon XL650 with the case feeder on the benches. At the end of the day, if I were going to purchase another progressive machine, I would opt for a Dillon XL750 or Dillon's Super 1050. Short of a Camdex or Ammoload , which are entry level commercial machines costing 50K and up, nothing out there compares to Dillon machines all three of my Dillon machines run pretty much flawlessly for me. If anyone has any input about the Hornaday's L&L (especially the powder dump and how to get it working reliably) I would really like to hear from you, there's always some trick I have not seen or heard about with every machine. I will certainly give any reasonable sounding idea a try and see if it works. Keep your powder dry and check out midsouthshooterssupply.com, they have Ficcohi small pistol and small rifle magnum primers priced at $284.00 for a 12,000 count case in a wooden crate. And the last time I looked they had free hazmat on them. I bought a case of the SRM's and a sleeve of 1500 and they work extremely well in my .223 and 5.56 loads and they seem to have a nice hard cup and run through my RCBS bench priming press with ease and no hiccups or problems of any kind, Just sharing the Love.
I was having the same powder drop issue sticking in the up position. I removed the drum, cleaned and ran some gun slick lube just on the o ring and have not had any issues since.
I’ve loaded thousands on my AP LNL and started having the automatic powder drop stick like you had. Required two things - cleaning the rotor etc AND not having the screws on the linkages too tight. You’re right there’s a lot of friction and it can add up. All in all I love my Hornady. Have had a Dillon 550 and found it annoyingly complicated. But the Hornady had its learning curve. Now that I’m aware of the issues and what needs to be checked now and then, and I love it. If someone loves their Dillon that’s great too. The only thing I will say negative is that the Dillon Fan Boys can get annoying.
Well..... It’s been another month or so, and I have this AP Lock and Load running pretty well. (No case or bullet feeders) It is running reliably and fairly fast now that I have my learning curve behind me. The only complaint I still have is the powder measure. I am using a $30.00 Lee Auto Disk powder measure and it works extremely well. I’ve loaded about 4000 38 spl with no problems. I mounted the Hornaday L&L powder measure on the bench and use it to hand charge rifle cases. Have a home made handle on it. Still need to order a factory handle. With all that linkage, the AP measure sticks and causes squib rounds , I tried it all, talked to the techs , and did everything they told me to do without success. Hornaday really needs to come up with a better powder system for the AP L&L. The AP L&L is a decent machine if you use a more reliable powder system rather than the one it comes with. This is my educated opinion, If anyone knows something I don’t, I am all ears , please chime in.
Not sure it will help but I used a very small amount of lube on the metal to metal contact points in my powder measure that don't come into contact with the powder. That seemed to help. I haven't used mine a ton but I haven't had any problems with it either.
I have both the Hornady LNL (10+/- years) and the Dillon 550C (for 2 years). The 550 does not automatically index but this is not a disadvantage in my opinion. I do not use a case feeder or a bullet feeder on either press. I do those steps by hand. Here is my take on both presses. The Hornady is a great press with 2 major problems. First, the Hornady uses a pawl system to advance the shell plate. The two pawls are very difficult to keep adjusted and the Hornady instructions do not well illustrate how they work. I am constantly having the adjust either or both pawls to keep it working. If the pawls are not correctly adjusted the machine will lock up and is inoperable. Words cannot my frustration with the Hornady pawl system. The second problem with the Hornady is in the priming system. Specifically, after priming a few thousand cases, there develops a worn area on the frame of the machine itself. This worn area is really a small hole or dimple. This hole is a major problem when trying to seat a large pistol primer. The primer just will not seat into the primer pocket of, or example, a .45acp. The primer gets seated partially into the cartridge case. When the machine advances the partially seated primer locks up the machine. Various internet sites have many comments about this problem. Hornady tech reps deny this problem exists on two of my calls. The Hornady LNL works fine with small pistol primers when loading, for example, 9mm, 38 or 357 magnum. In my opinion this dimple problem is a fatal flaw. Everything else with the Hornady is great. The powder measure is somewhat superior to the Dillon. The interchangeable powder measure devices are great when changing calibers. The Hornady lock and load bushing system is great and very inexpensive for quick caliber changes. The Dillon requires a much more expensive tool head change. I got so frustrated with the Hornady, because of the above 2 problems, I bought the Dillon 550 about 2 years ago. The priming system is much superior to the Hornady. Everything about the Dillon is much more expensive. Dillon really touts their no BS warranty and it is great. However, I found that Hornady readily supplied any needed parts without cost to me. If you have the money buy Dillon because of the fatal flaw of the dimple/hole that will likely develop under the primer seating area.
I had the 'dimple' issue in the frame as well. I placed a coin on the frame, under the primer push pin and let the coin take the beating rather than the frame. I will eventually put a hardened plate in place.
O man, we both had the same reasoning. It's like you read my mind! I ended up buying the Hornady, specifically for ease of caliber conversation. Primer seating never had problems, but the shell plate gets easily loose over time, had to put a spring washer, and it worked. What kind of grease do you use cause when I greased the ram it got really sticky. Ended up using oil.
I just bought the Hornady LNL AP..because of your video. THANK YOU...Just one question-I see a different handle. Was that a Hornady handle back when you got yours or is it an aftermarket item?
I had a LnL and no matter what I tried, it would not seat the primers fully. After much modifications, I finally got it to barely seat the primers flush; but not all of the way into the primer pockets of the brass cases. I called Hornady many times about it, but they were not very helpful. The case feeder never worked right either. It would jam up more than it would work. I spent more time trying to get the machine work, than making ammo. I sold it on e-bay and ordered a Dillon RL550b. After initial setup, I started loading ammo in .38 Special, 45 ACP, 30-06, 308, 10mm and 5.56mm. The 550 loads match grade ammo, and a lot of it: just taking my time and running the machine smoothly. I did wind-up buying toolheads and powder measures for each cartridge, which does run into money, but I paced it out over time so it did not hurt so much. I bought an XL650, about 3 months after the 550, to load the higher count cartridges i.e. 5.56mm, 9mm, 38 Spl (mostly for my wife), and 40 S&W. I leave the 650 set-up for small primer cartridges and the 550 is set-up for large primer cartridges. I do not have to sit at these machines for hours on end, to keep my ammo supply level topped-off. I just go into my shop and knock out a couple hundred rounds at a time. I am able to keep a good bit of ammo on hand for each cartridge, without having to run the machines fast and hard. I am able to load match quality ammunition, and practice/plinking ammo, without having to change anything but higher quality components for the match grade rounds. The Dillons are a bit expensive, but if you spread out buying equipment over time, it does not hurt so much. I truly believe that Dillon's progressive presses are worth the money. Like I have read on a lot of these comment sections: They just work. I do have equipment made by Hornady, and use it all of the time, i.e. The Hornady Case Prep Center (which is pricey, but works fine), the Hornady Concentricity Tool, and other small odds and ends made by Hornady; and they all work well. I have always had good luck with Hornady's bullets and loaded ammunition, I just didn't have any luck with their LnL AP, or their customer service. Everyone has to make their own decisions about what works for them. If you have a Hornady press that you have no problems with, then I think that is great. If you are looking into getting your first progressive press, don't let the "Blue Kool-Aid" comments turn you off. If you like to tinker with your press to keep it running, get whatever brand/model you want. If you need to make match quality ammo without the stress, you can't go wrong with Dillon.
Looking to get in to reloading, both pistol (9, 40, and 10) and rifle (5.56, 270, various .30s, and 350) cases. For rifle, I am thinking of doing two press set-up assembly. First would be a single stage to decap, then tumble, then back to the single stage to neck size, following with a trimmer. Changing neck sizing dies to match caliber. Second press would be a progressive set up to prime, charge, seat bullet, and crimp neck. Changing the turret with dedicated dies mounted for each particular caliber. Buying a new caliber components and turret set up each year until I have what I need to load for the rifles I have. Would Lee's loadmaster progressive be acceptable for a budget minded, able to grow set-up?
I have absolutely no experience in reloading I decided to buy the xl750. at first I was going to get the rl 550c but I decided to just go for it. The press hasn’t arrived yet so I’m watching videos on it I’m an hvac technician so I’m use to troubleshooting. I hope I made the right decision. Plus it gave me a great excuse to build an awesome workbench
I started on a progressive as well. The only problem was too many things going on at once and trying to troubleshoot them all at once. It was frustrating. What I should have done is use the progressive press as a single stage until I learned each die in and out -only use one die in one station at a time. Plus, it'll be easier to learn how to configure and adjust the dies without looking at the manual. 750 is an awesome press. You will love it.
Had a Normandy and had problems right out of the box. Got me a Dillon 550 and no problems. I later added a Dillon 650 to my stable. Both machines are flawless.
Has anyone tried to use two nuts on a die to see if you can keep it locked to its position on the tool head of the dillon? Basically a second lock ring to lock the die in place from the opposing pressure and then un-screwing with bottom lock ring and screwing it back in place with the top.
So you're saying is that you can't move the powder measure from 1 tool head to the other on the Dillon but you can on the Hornady and you don't need to buy lock'n'loaded die bushings for the Hornady press?
Very informative thanks for sharing After seeing this I’m leaning toward the hornady I still think for the money Neither press should have flaws but that’s just me 😂
Great video. I have the Dillon Square deal, bought it with from an estate, Dillon’s lifetime warranty is what impressed me. Send it in for $80 shipping one way, and they repaired everything, and it came back like brand new. I know Dillon does not do it on their professional models 1050. How is Hornaday about repairs?
Hornady is fairly hassle free for warranty stuff. You can report a broken part and they’ll send you a new one for no cost. With that said, hornady LNL is a headache. I’ve had one for about 10 years and nothing but problems. Powder dropper hates certain powders and will do dangerous loads, case feeder pretty much doesn’t work about 50% of the time where it will tip a case being pushed into the shell plate, random issues with priming system where debris will jam it up or the anvil eventually digs into the frame causing a dent and the primer feeder won’t slide at its default position. Hornady might be cheaper but trust me, spend the money and get a Dillon 750 or better. You will save lots of time and headaches dicking with the press by going for a dillon
The Dillon 650 priming system is silly. Spits primers on the floor if there's no case present. Puts primers in close proximity ready for chain detonation. The new 750 now has a priming system that closely resembles... the Hornady linear shuttle system.
It's actually the same as the priming system off the Dillon RL550, SDB, RL450, etc. which Hornady copied. What's funny is 25 years ago, people told me if I was going to buy a Dillon, to get the 650 because it had a better priming system than the 550. I think the linear system on the 750 (which I finally ordered last week) is probably better, but the 650 system still has its advantages and proponents.
XL650 here, first pressed I ever owned no issues. I agree it does get a little expensive on extra tool heads etc but then swapping calibers is pretty easy and the settings are all intact. But you don't have to buy tool heads if you don't mind setting up the dies again.
@@markkornytchuk7847 Yea have not had that experience. I think the worst thing that happened was crushing a 223 case and having to remove the stuck case. That was a pain. For cranking out 9mm and 223 its easy as pie and fast. Really easy. I've used a single press too but prefer the Dillion as is so much faster.
I have a garage gym / light work shop. So space is limited. If I want to get into reloading, but I don’t want to have a dedicated reloading bench, how easily do these systems break down / set up? (I plan on packing all my shooting and reloading gear into a vertical safe or knaack box bolted to the floor.) I’ll be shooting enough to justify the thing, but I’ll be doing large enough batches so I don’t need to have it out but once every couple of weeks or once a month. Thanks for the good video.
Look into the quick change press mounting system with the flush mount base plate from Inline Fabrication for use with either Dillon or Hornady systems. inlinefabrication.com/collections/quick-change-press-mounting-system Happy Independence Day!
I concur with Marshall Mimay's suggestion on the quick change system, however if you want a complete removal with no other bench mods/plates I'd say the Dillon is quickest to set up with the case feeder since there is no adjustment needed on the case feeder drop tube. If no case feeder then the LNL might be quicker since it only has two bolts that mount to the bench vs 4.
I have a Lee Loadmaster attached to a 2x6. When I want to use it, I just use C-clamps to attach to my bench/desk. Same thing with some single-stage presses. It is awkward to store them attached to a board, and I have had them fall but it allows mobility. I would NOT try my method with one of these full-blown systems with electronic case or bullet feeders though.
Have the Dillon 650. After you work the bugs out it's great. Dillon is the master of nickel and dimeing you to death. Also the 650 cannot load 338 Lapua. Wish I would have known that
Owned both and would choose the Dillon hands down. Only thing is it's easy to end up with $6k in the Dillon doing multiple calibers. The lnl would spit cases out of the top and kick them out of the bottom. It would also eat the metal spring things occasionally. I really wanted to make the lnl work better, just so I could be different but there isn't a comparison. The 650 is smoother, more reliable, better warranty, easier caliber change and better resale. The only lnl advantage is the price.
I have to say after reloading multiple calibers for more than 15 years on Dillon 650, changing calibers on the LNL is so much easier. Just pull the die put the new die in that's already set up and change powder measure. Boom your off and running.
no its absolutely not easier 8 pieces just in the caliber change from case feeder, case buttons etc, hornady pop 4 dies out pop 4 dies right back in in less then 15 seconds. unscrew case plate throw on another one tighten bolt hand tight and throw on spring walla a whopping 1 minute caliber change.
Looks like a Forster Co-Ax single stage press hiding behind the Hornady. Let me state that is one AWESOME press, and my recommendation for a sweet-to-use, precise machine. Die sets ups are ONCE, check 'em occasionaly and forgetaboutit! Takes Lee dies too.
I have 2 lnl app’s,2 550’s, and 2 650 dillons. The lnl is fine if you don’t add case feeder. Case feeder on lnl just does not work like the Dillons. I spent the money on lnl casefeeders,would sure make someone a good deal on the red casefeeders!
something like this clear "case feed cage" mentioned here www.sassybrass.com/sassybrass/product/casecage/ Ebay has some too or you can make one yourself
I have owned both, still have the Dillon after 1 year.It became evident the the Dillon was far superior to the Hornady. So I sold LAL AMMO PLANT and have been happy ever after!
Die Boxes ?? With the Lock and Load you can purchase extra Lock and Load Die holders they have the same threads on the inside.. You can leave your dies set up and adjusted .. You can change dies in seconds and they are already set they way there were the last time you used them .. There are some good videos on here to adjust and solve the Horady LnL press ... Also if you don't use the case feeder and bullet feeder you won't have any problems there and you will save a ton of money ..
I have the single stage Hornady Iron Press, but when I go for a progressive, it’ll be the Dillon 650 with the case feeder and bullet feeder (yes, I know - $$$). Thanks for the video.
I had the opposite reaction. Dillon seems like they botched the priming system (continuous primer feed, really!?), along with other things like the press geometry blocking the view of the shellplate, the shellplate locking tabs being hard to use, and spent primer ejection being poorly thought out. I think the perfect press would essentially be the Hornady design but with the build quality of a Dillon.
I prefer the Hornady. It has many great designs to it and is well constructed. The Dillon has flimsy mechanisms and many seem to be pot metal or something. I would only buy a Dillon if it were less expensive than the Hornady, because I'd have to give up the conveniences. Mine has had zero issues. It's simply a matter of setting it up. Any piece of machinery with adjustments needs to be set up if it maybe moved in shipping. Mine was tuned out of the box.
Brandon cool. Was just curious. I just bought the Hornady. Pretty much just for 9mm. I must of got lucky. Went right together and have not had a single issue YET. Other then my first 20 or so rounds. Took a few to get used to it. I forgot to prime a few and my primer slide stuck a time or two. But ever since then it’s working great. I think it was just user error at first. I think it will be sufficient for me. It’s not an ammo plant and doesn’t have a bullet or case feeder. But for me it’s plenty good enough I believe. I did buy a 223 plate as well but have not loaded any 223 on it yet. I hope it works well for 223 because I have a few thousand I need to load up. All in all I’m happy with it so far. What made me bite on it was it was on sale plus in get 500 bullets. I wish they gave you an allowance for any bullet instead of just certain bullets though. I’m going to have to get either 308 or 6.5 interloks just to maximize my rebate. I would love to get 223 or 9mm projectiles but of you do that you leave a lot of money on the table. The 223 projectiles are just 55 soft points that can be had for 10 cents or even less. The 9mm projectile is the XTP and it’s a nice projectile, but I don’t need it for plinking when I can shoot something that cost less than half that. But if I get the 6.5 or 308s that’s about 150 bucks worth of bullets back to me. So after both my shell plates and the press minus the projectiles I’ll be in the setup for 370. Much faster than loading my plinking ammo single stage.
@@halfdollar86 I actually think the hornady works pretty good without the case or bullet feeders. Its when you add either or both of those that issues start to grow exponentially.
What kinda grease do you need to use for those zerks? Is general purpose grease just fine? Or do you need full synthetic?😆 Real question though! Also I’ve seen that one that it’s called red n tacky! Which one would be ideal?
I use whatever grease that's in my garage grease guns that I use on the cars. I've used the generic black stuff and red synthetic looking stuff. I doubt it makes a difference for this purpose.
Just a comment because you're more unfamiliar with the Dillon. A Dillon hack is to buy multiple powder dies per tool head, leave them preset and just switch the hopper at the bracket. It's actually what it's designed for. Headspace once and done.
The Hornady was pretty smooth if you're manually feeding bullets and cases. The Dillon is not bad either though. Keep in mind that you'll have to insert cases with your right hand on the Dillon and bullets with your left. The hornady you'll insert bullets and cases with your left hand.
@@zerocool4256 And that is a feature that many reloaders overlook. It's easy to load both bullets and cases with the Hornady using your left hand assuming you don't have a bullet or case feeder. Also, the Hornady's frame is larger and it accommodates a larger diameter shell plate giving you more room to work especially if you have big hands. The front part of the Hornady frame is offset from the 6 o'clock position to the five o'clock position so you have a much better view of the process too, much better ergonomically.
Trimming the cases is part of brass prepping which is done before reloading. Besides, pistol brass does not need to be trimmed to length. You will lose the brass way before it needs to be trimmed.
Hornady products are sold everywhere and easier and cheaper to buy than the Dillion. Issues on my Hornady AP’s have all been cured with learning the press. Knowing how to adjust the press was key. I run 2 Hornady AP’s and they are easy to operate and once learned they run like a finely tuned machine which what mine is. I won’t even mention how much cheaper the Hornady is to get into. You get a bunch for little money and service from Hornady is outstanding. I am sure both presses are good but dollar for dollar Hornady hands down.
So I really didn’t get a good idea of which press you like best. It seems you like them both for their own strengths. So seriously, if you HAD to get rid of one(for some strange reason) which one would you keep? Honestly.
Yup. Dillon is the way to go. Started with a lee progressive and spend more time tinkering to get it to function. Sold it and purchased the 550. later I purchased a 650. Honestly, the 550 is all you need.
jawsmod I have quite a few of the Lee indexing turret presses and they are fantastic little presses for pistol and revolver cartridges. Lee’s cast iron single stage O frame press is ok I guess. I have one laying on the floor under one of the benches. I don’t need it because I have three Rock Chuckers on one bench. All other Lee presses a pretty much bargin basement junk as far as I’m concerned. I have two 550 B presses and one XL 650. Love my Dillon machines. I don’t know what the difference is between the Dillon 650 and the 750 I didn’t know the 750 existed until I got that last copy of the Blue Press they mailed out this month. The two presses look the same to me, if anybody knows what the difference is between the 650 and 750, please enlighten me ! I’m still waiting on the parts for the Hornaday AP Lock and Load from Midway, They’re supposed to be delivered Tuesday. I will likely be asking you guys for advice on that when I get jammed up with it. (And I Will, I’m Sure ). I will keep you all posted on that. Everybody have a good night. Pete
@@jawsmod Lee isn't the best thing to compare to a Dillon. That's like comparing a bicycle pulling a wagon to a modern mid sized pickup. It's a given and extremely unfair.
Pete Conlogue, hi Pete, the 750 changed the primer system over to the slider type that is used on the Super 1050, getting away from the revolver style feed. There may be some other small changes but it’s my understanding that was the major change. Hope that helps.
I wanted a progressive press cause they seem really nice. I'm just planning on loading 300 AAC... but I want to pay cash for my press. This limits me to the Hornady AP because I haven't seen the Dylan press sold anywhere.
@firebladeflow thank you for the response. Yea I've been seeing some comments bashing the lee saying it's cheap and probably won't get passed 10k without something breaking guaranteed. I have my eye on the lee six pack pro in .45 acp as someone who never reloaded yet. I thought about starting on a lee because overall I hear more positive things.
Good video, 2 things, first it isn't the thickness of the grease, I believe you pumped too much, also you do not have to buy a powder drop for each tool head you transfer the powder drop to the next tool head, also the Dillon has a lifetime warranty and produces match grade ammo.
I always read how great Dillon was, I wanted to “upgrade” from my RCBS Piggyback. Before I ordered a 550 I called as asked if I needed to use their dies, the person I spoke with said my current RCBS, Redding, and Hornady dies would work. I could never get a consistent powder drop. I called Dillon to ask about tips and/or tricks. All the guy did was read the manual to me. I tried a few more days before I returned it.
So does the dillion come in only 1 caliber i was looking at their website and it has to have a conversation kit to select? Brand new to reloading and wanna go with a dillion
Your typical dillon kit will come with one caliber conversion kit. That's basically all the little parts that pertain to that caliber you select except for the dies. If you want to add another caliber after that you'd need at least a caliber conversion kit, dies and case feeder plate I think. Check out double alpha academy if you're purchasing online. You can chat with them online to make sure you get everything you need.
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A matchup I've been waiting for, thanks.
Thanks for a great video. I recently acquired a used XL650 after having a LNL AP for 10+ years. IMO the XL650 is much easier to work with especially the priming and powder systems.
the beauty of the internet is your 2 1/2 year old video is still giving great advice. I've spent so much time looking at both of these I wondered if I was missing something. Now I'm 99% sure I'm just going to get the Dillion 550 - thanks again
Thanks for this! Been looking between the two! This helps!
Great video thanks for taking the time to make it.
Can't complain much about my Hornady LNL. I had an issue with primers getting stuck and locking the press. But after examining the problem, it was solved in 5 minutes with a Dremel tool by rounding an edge on the primer slides. Since then, it works like a charm. I love the priming system.
When I ordered the press and compared prices to Dillon, the LNL was a no brainer. Changing calibers is also much easier and faster if you have to switch the primer size. On top of that, you only need a cheap powder measure drum insert for each caliber or you simply use just one and adjust it. Due to the LNL system you can leave the powder measure in place when switching calibers.
I agree that the Dillon case feeder is far superior. But the Hornady one works fine for me most of the time. The key is setting it up correctly. But you still get the occasional dropped or jammed case here and then.
I had used the Dillon XL650 before buying the LNL and liked it. But I still went for the Hornady and never regretted it.
I love the simple mechanical function of it. Even I as a mechanical illiterate understand how it works and can fix most minor issues it may have. But aside from the primer feeder (which was an easy fix) and the suboptimal case feeder I hardly ever had any real issues.
I would buy the LNL AP again at any time. But I would also not mind getting a Dillon XL650 should I find an occasional bargain. I would probably use it for 9mm Luger only as switching calibers (including primer size) isn't fun and gets pricy.
I've had the Hornady for 13 years. It's a great press. Very good video.
Thanks for posting this. I genuinely appreciate your time and perspective.
That being said, with the current ammunition and component squeeze it bears saying:
You can buy a Dillon today. It'll take a couple of weeks to ship. You can buy the Dillon dies today. They'll ship in 11 months.
You can buy the Hornady today. It'll ship today. You can buy Hornady dies today. They'll ship today.
I hope things change soon, but I don't anticipate that happening.
Just inherited one of these and found 20,000 primers and shell casings and bullets my dad had after he passed away 😞 so I must say I'm now emotionally attached to this dillion 1050. Thanks for the awesome video 😊
You’re the only person I’ve ever seen correct themselves after mispronouncing hornady. Kudos
For real, this is an actual problem in our community lol.. Nothing like seeing some moron that speaks to fast slow down long enough to have fully enunciated "HornuhDAY".. its like saying toe-mah-toe. It's its like, its truly not spelled the way you say it fool.
This video is such a great comparison of these 2 machines. Like you I have both and absolutely concur with your opinion. I do feel once you tweak the Hornady LnL it’s a much easier press for the beginner reloader. Great video.
The Hornady is a great press if you know how to tune it up properly. Until I learned I had issues with the priming system but after learning more about how it works it is a finely tune machine. My final opinion is both are good but for the everyday loader, loading for recreation Hornady can not be beat. You get a lot of press for very little and I have not mentioned that Hornady parts are easy to fine if needed. I on rare occasion have had something break and Hornady replaced my part no questioned ask and shipped in few days. Again for the money it’s Hornady all day long. In fairness I do not own a Dillion but have several Hornady AP presses. I was looking at the Dillion as an additional press but after adding all the extra items to make it work the price was more than double for the Dillion.
All I've ever owned with regard to progressives is Dillon. It's interesting to see how the other manufacturers go about doing the same thing and hearing the pros and cons of each. Thank you for the upload.
Good video, I have had the Hornady I just started running into problems one after the other. But I have to say I used it a lot and the people at Hornady are great when you do have a problem. I eventually decided to spend the money to get a Dillon xl 750. It's a nice press and I like it. It really doesn't matter which one you have, you will eventually have a hickup and you will need to figure it out. I have to say I have never used a case feeder on either. If I had them both sitting side by side and was only going to keep one of them I would choose the Dillon. Don't shy away from the Hornady though because when it's running good it's pretty awesome.
Thank you for the review. It was very helpful
Thanks for the video. I've been using a RL550B/C for ~25 years and love it. Caliber changes: I do go ahead and buy a tool head and powder measure for each caliber. A little pricy up front but makes changing calibers quick and easy.
I guess I got lucky with 2 Hornady LnL AP presses. I have one set up for large primers and one for small primers. Between both presses, I have loaded north of 30,000 rounds in 9mm, 357 mag, 40 S&W, 10MM, 44 Mag, 45 ACP, 223 Rem and 308 Win. I have caliber set ups for each of those, including the lower powder die. Takes less than 5 minutes to swap calibers and most of that is verifying the powder charge. I have had no,problems with either of the 2 presses except the one set up for small primers. It loads the most rounds and I occasionally have to adjust the pawls to re-time the press. I want to get case feeders for both now. These 2 presses replaced an RCBS Pro2000 press. The RCBS was okay, but I absolutely hated the strip priming system. Had nothing but problems with that system. Dillon presses may be great, but I will stick with what I have and am accustomed to. Both presses are great systems.
great video.. thanks for posting it...
I only have the dillon xl 650 and an RCBS single for making test loads etc.
I adapted a Dillon powder measure to my Hornady LnL. Now it runs great.
I have both also but do most of my rifle reloading is on my old single stage RCBS because of the brass growing on rifle rounds. My only real issue with the Dillon is the primer feeding system and on my 2 Hornadys it is an easy adjustment. There are good things about each press but I must admit I don’t have all the bullet feeding equipment on my presses because of primers not seating properly in my brass and I have found sometimes more equipment means more headaches and I reload for the enjoyment. For Prairie dogs I like to build specific loads for each gun. I shoot 204, 222, 223, 22-250 at dogs out too really long ranges if the wind is not blowing. That is what reloading is all about, shooting dimes at over 200 yards!!
Had an RL550b and it seemed that Dillon was forever causing me to spend money. I loaded a lot of ammo with it but in the end I sold it and went back to a single stage. I’m really looking at the Hornady LNL as a progressive after looking and listening for many years.
LNL AP has the ability to use as a single-stage or two-stage for rifle, as I can put in a universal de-priming die then neck die it to round the mouth for off press wet tumble, trimming, and swaging operation. Then back to press for sizing, priming, powder, bullet seat and crimp. For pistol, I still like to de-prime first then wet tumble gets the brass primer pocket like new. With Dillion, you would need 2 tool head or another single stage press. My LNL AP came adjusted and never fussed with the timing, powder drop or the primer feed. The only issue is the plate screw comes loose. I tried a split washer but it put uneven pressure on the plate and caused issues. So I just check the plate screw every 20 or 30 cases. I recently upgraded the powder tube to the Dram Worx as the powder was clouding and deforming the plastic tube. The upgraded handle is also way better than the ball handle.
Would a dab or blue loctite help hold the screw from backing out? Not a lot just a tiny bit . or is that a screw that needs to come out more often than not? (I don't own either of these yet just checking pros/cons of each system and looking further into questions of others)
Thanks. But I solved the problem of the LNL shell plate screw. I placed the slit washer between 2 flat washer and that works. @@jasongalvan6357
Blue! And for caliber changes I reload for 6 different calibers and I have 1 powder measure. When I change it is two Allen bolts. The die stays with the tool head and that is what holds the setting for that caliber
Chad that and the powder bar. I’m doing it same way. One powder measure, dillon powder die on each toolhead and powder bar for different caliber. Cheapest solution and quick to change.
I’ve had 3 Hornaday lock and load presses. I’ve really liked them.
Why have you had 3 presses? Are they wearing out, or does the newer ones have different features?
I had major issues with Hornady Lock N Load. I had constant problems with primer feeding system, had to buy after market plastic part for it and rig up the cam wire. Also have to constantly adjust the timing by using the Paws. I can't wait to get a Dillon. I should have paid the extra money, it would have saved me countless hours tinkering with the Hornady.
u must not be to mechanically inclined 5 years and no adjustments have been made and over 15000 rounds u must be duing somehting wrong.
Great video... I thought I made a mistake starting with the Hornady LNL... For me the only major was the priming system.. Bought one of the Lee processing press's for production priming,
Good review showing the pluses and minuses of each system. I have both as well, and have reloaded thousands and thousands of rounds with each. I don't have any major issues with either one. Those fanboys who champion either one with no objective criteria as to why are a waste of time to read or view.
I had a number of problems initially with my Hornady LNL AP. By far, the thing that made me the most unhappy was the amount of final machining I had to do on the moving parts of the press. I had to spend hours with a file smoothing the sub plate and case feed slider to get them to slide properly against one another. After spending a substantial amount of money on the press, I was infuriated that I had to do the final fit and finish work.
I had problems getting the case feeder to drop cases properly, and to this day I have periodic problems with the cases popping off of the press after being dropped in front of the slider.
The primer feed mechanism is very well designed and works nicely. The bullet feeder is also well designed and works very well.
I replaced the handle with an ergonomic one from Inline Fabrication. The original handle is nothing to write home about - just a straight rod with a ball on one end.
After a whole lot of troubleshooting and aggravation, the press now works pretty well. But as with any device with moving parts, you are going to encounter problems from time to time.
Cost was by far the largest deciding factor for me between Hornady and Dillon.
After reading tons of reviews on the Hornady LNL AP I've come to the conclusion that Hornady must have quality control issues. Glad to hear you got yours humming nicely!
Man just look at this reloading room! Beautiful!
Good video. They both look better than my ol’ RCBS Piggyback II. My Dillon is on the way. 👍🏻
Great video!! Thinking about getting back into reloading. I had the Hornady press back in the early 90's. Which one did you go with? Also, any thoughts on the Mark 7 Apex 10??
Had a Hornady for 10 years and had to modify it so much to make it work consistently. Primer feed problems, indexing, etc. Once I eliminated the primer system things were a bit better and it allowed me to arrange my dies in the order I like. Finally bit the bullet on a Dillon 650 and all those problems disappeared. It just works. And, it comes with a great lifetime warranty and customer service Yes, it is more money but like many say.."buy once, cry once". The priming system is the weak link in virtually all progressive presses, so pick your poison.
I'm ready to cry 2 more times for dillon 750s. Love my first one.
I never haven't any problem with primer system on my loadmaster.
But i don't like rotation system on it, so I want something what works smoothly. I think hornady is what i need. Or not?
Great comparison, I’m a Hornady owner, very pleased but needed a ton of little hacks. Now runs easily 5 or 600 per hour. Best hack make a bracket to anchor the case feeder to the wall behind the press. All but eliminates the case jam at the funnel
can you elaborate on your solution or point me in the direction of said solution? I am contemplating getting the Hornady Ammo Plant kit but heard this is an issue especially with 9mm which I have about 3k brass for.
great video. im looking at getting into more bulk reloading and not just on a single stage press. watched a lot of reviews and really coming to this conclusion. Hornady for rifle .223, .308, and .243 but for pistol/revolver in 9mm and 257 mag the dillion square deal B seams the best option. i will definitely be reloading more pistol any how. so will start on the dillion. maybe change my mind on the hornady later but it looks more like the cost saving press from moving between calibers
Great review Brandon. I am torn between these 2. Which one would be better loading 9mm. Maybe in the future load 30.30. Thank you for making this video. Cheers
I have not had an issue with my Hornady priming system. I do not use a bullet or brass feeder. I’m convinced that if you are placing brass and bullets you simply can’t beat the Hornady at its price range. The only issues people have with the Hornady that I have seen is with the case feeder and bullet feeder systems.
Agreed
Well done, Brandon! I've had a LNL AP for a few years and love it. Last year I got a XL650 and concur with your observations completely. The Dillon certainly has the appearance of quality. They both have their nuances but one thing for sure, the Hornady is by far more economical to load multiple calibers with. Thank you, for sharing.
Great video review! I think some of the things you say you didn’t like about the Dillon are actually a better design, however, I don’t like the primer feed on it either. Both are great reloaders, but Hornady is the better deal between the two. Dillon loves raising their prices every year. I do love having easy access to the round in each stage on the hornady too.
I haven't bought either of these yet, but one thing I like about the Dillon is that once you dial in your dies, you can swap to another caliber on another tool head and back without having to fine-tune you're dies to the proper depth again. Yes you have to buy the tool heads but that's the cost of convenience. For further reference I'm looking at the XL 750. Not the 650.
Either way, thanks! Informative video
Once your dies are set up on the Hornady, no adjusting is needed. And, the bushings make swapping dies a snap.
Well...…. it's been a month, I have some of the bugs worked out of the Hornaday L&L.
I set it up for 38 special, I called and spoke with one of Hornaday's Techs who was very helpful and very generous with his time on the phone and I do thank Hornaday for that.
By the way, I am NOT using the bullet or case feeders.
I was able to get the machine running rather smoothly except for the powder dump, which I took apart , polished all the surfaces and tried the screw plug in every position as instructed
to do by the Tech. It still sticks in the up position causing squib rounds if I don't watch it very very carefully. I feel that all that linkage on the powder dump is the culprit and yes, I made sure it was lined up nice and straight and it was clean and free of obstructions. I ultimately removed it from the machine and installed a Lee Auto Disk Powder Measure that seems to work well.
I ordered a new hopper for an old Dillon powder dump I have under the bench, when it arrives, I will give it a whirl and report back, It's and older one without the pulldown rod so I will install two or three return springs on it and maybe a couple of strong rubber bands as well. I will figure out some way to cross that bridge when I come to it.
Every now and then when I try to run the machine too fast, the loaded round will hang up on the ejector wire, but not often enough to complain about it. This press is still one of the older machines and Hornaday has remedied this on their newer machines.
All and all, I have reached a much better opinion of the L&L than I had when I sent that other Machine back to Hornaday 20 years ago.
I have a great deal more experience today than I did back then. My advise to the beginner reloaders out there is to wait until you have a couple of years of loading every day under your belt before buying a progressive machine , Progressive reloading is not for everyone, even well experienced reloaders can have a lot of difficulties with progressive machines.
I also have two Dillon 550B, and one Dillon XL650 with the case feeder on the benches. At the end of the day, if I were going to purchase another progressive machine, I would opt for a Dillon XL750 or Dillon's Super 1050. Short of a Camdex or Ammoload , which are entry level commercial machines costing 50K and up, nothing out there compares to Dillon machines all three of my Dillon machines run pretty much flawlessly for me. If anyone has any input about the Hornaday's L&L (especially the powder dump and how to get it working reliably) I would really like to hear from you, there's always some trick I have not seen or heard about with every machine. I will certainly give any reasonable sounding idea a try and see if it works.
Keep your powder dry and check out midsouthshooterssupply.com, they have Ficcohi small pistol and small rifle magnum primers priced at $284.00 for a 12,000 count case in a wooden crate.
And the last time I looked they had free hazmat on them.
I bought a case of the SRM's and a sleeve of 1500 and they work extremely well in my .223 and 5.56 loads and they seem to have a nice hard cup and run through my RCBS bench priming press with ease and no hiccups or problems of any kind, Just sharing the Love.
I was having the same powder drop issue sticking in the up position. I removed the drum, cleaned and ran some gun slick lube just on the o ring and have not had any issues since.
I’ve loaded thousands on my AP LNL and started having the automatic powder drop stick like you had. Required two things - cleaning the rotor etc AND not having the screws on the linkages too tight. You’re right there’s a lot of friction and it can add up.
All in all I love my Hornady. Have had a Dillon 550 and found it annoyingly complicated. But the Hornady had its learning curve. Now that I’m aware of the issues and what needs to be checked now and then, and I love it.
If someone loves their Dillon that’s great too. The only thing I will say negative is that the Dillon Fan Boys can get annoying.
Well..... It’s been another month or so, and I have this AP Lock and Load running pretty well. (No case or bullet feeders)
It is running reliably and fairly fast now that I have my learning curve behind me.
The only complaint I still have is the powder measure. I am using a $30.00 Lee Auto Disk powder measure and it works extremely well. I’ve loaded about 4000 38 spl with no problems.
I mounted the Hornaday L&L powder measure on the bench and use it to hand charge rifle cases. Have a home made handle on it. Still need to order a factory handle.
With all that linkage, the AP measure sticks and causes squib rounds , I tried it all, talked to the techs , and did everything they told me to do without success.
Hornaday really needs to come up with a better powder system for the AP L&L.
The AP L&L is a decent machine if you use a more reliable powder system rather than the one it comes with.
This is my educated opinion, If anyone knows something I don’t, I am all ears , please chime in.
Not sure it will help but I used a very small amount of lube on the metal to metal contact points in my powder measure that don't come into contact with the powder. That seemed to help. I haven't used mine a ton but I haven't had any problems with it either.
Get a Dillon powder measure with the large and small metering bars and failsafe rod. No squibs ever with my XL650 I’ve had since 2014
I have both the Hornady LNL (10+/- years) and the Dillon 550C (for 2 years). The 550 does not automatically index but this is not a disadvantage in my opinion. I do not use a case feeder or a bullet feeder on either press. I do those steps by hand. Here is my take on both presses. The Hornady is a great press with 2 major problems. First, the Hornady uses a pawl system to advance the shell plate. The two pawls are very difficult to keep adjusted and the Hornady instructions do not well illustrate how they work. I am constantly having the adjust either or both pawls to keep it working. If the pawls are not correctly adjusted the machine will lock up and is inoperable. Words cannot my frustration with the Hornady pawl system. The second problem with the Hornady is in the priming system. Specifically, after priming a few thousand cases, there develops a worn area on the frame of the machine itself. This worn area is really a small hole or dimple. This hole is a major problem when trying to seat a large pistol primer. The primer just will not seat into the primer pocket of, or example, a .45acp. The primer gets seated partially into the cartridge case. When the machine advances the partially seated primer locks up the machine. Various internet sites have many comments about this problem. Hornady tech reps deny this problem exists on two of my calls. The Hornady LNL works fine with small pistol primers when loading, for example, 9mm, 38 or 357 magnum. In my opinion this dimple problem is a fatal flaw. Everything else with the Hornady is great. The powder measure is somewhat superior to the Dillon. The interchangeable powder measure devices are great when changing calibers. The Hornady lock and load bushing system is great and very inexpensive for quick caliber changes. The Dillon requires a much more expensive tool head change. I got so frustrated with the Hornady, because of the above 2 problems, I bought the Dillon 550 about 2 years ago. The priming system is much superior to the Hornady. Everything about the Dillon is much more expensive. Dillon really touts their no BS warranty and it is great. However, I found that Hornady readily supplied any needed parts without cost to me. If you have the money buy Dillon because of the fatal flaw of the dimple/hole that will likely develop under the primer seating area.
I had the 'dimple' issue in the frame as well. I placed a coin on the frame, under the primer push pin and let the coin take the beating rather than the frame. I will eventually put a hardened plate in place.
O man, we both had the same reasoning. It's like you read my mind! I ended up buying the Hornady, specifically for ease of caliber conversation. Primer seating never had problems, but the shell plate gets easily loose over time, had to put a spring washer, and it worked. What kind of grease do you use cause when I greased the ram it got really sticky. Ended up using oil.
Dillon for the win. Few quirks but the case feed is what made me go with them and their customers service
I just bought the Hornady LNL AP..because of your video. THANK YOU...Just one question-I see a different handle. Was that a Hornady handle back when you got yours or is it an aftermarket item?
I had a LnL and no matter what I tried, it would not seat the primers fully. After much modifications, I finally got it to barely seat the primers flush; but not all of the way into the primer pockets of the brass cases. I called Hornady many times about it, but they were not very helpful. The case feeder never worked right either. It would jam up more than it would work. I spent more time trying to get the machine work, than making ammo. I sold it on e-bay and ordered a Dillon RL550b. After initial setup, I started loading ammo in .38 Special, 45 ACP, 30-06, 308, 10mm and 5.56mm. The 550 loads match grade ammo, and a lot of it: just taking my time and running the machine smoothly. I did wind-up buying toolheads and powder measures for each cartridge, which does run into money, but I paced it out over time so it did not hurt so much. I bought an XL650, about 3 months after the 550, to load the higher count cartridges i.e. 5.56mm, 9mm, 38 Spl (mostly for my wife), and 40 S&W. I leave the 650 set-up for small primer cartridges and the 550 is set-up for large primer cartridges. I do not have to sit at these machines for hours on end, to keep my ammo supply level topped-off. I just go into my shop and knock out a couple hundred rounds at a time. I am able to keep a good bit of ammo on hand for each cartridge, without having to run the machines fast and hard. I am able to load match quality ammunition, and practice/plinking ammo, without having to change anything but higher quality components for the match grade rounds. The Dillons are a bit expensive, but if you spread out buying equipment over time, it does not hurt so much. I truly believe that Dillon's progressive presses are worth the money. Like I have read on a lot of these comment sections: They just work. I do have equipment made by Hornady, and use it all of the time, i.e. The Hornady Case Prep Center (which is pricey, but works fine), the Hornady Concentricity Tool, and other small odds and ends made by Hornady; and they all work well. I have always had good luck with Hornady's bullets and loaded ammunition, I just didn't have any luck with their LnL AP, or their customer service. Everyone has to make their own decisions about what works for them. If you have a Hornady press that you have no problems with, then I think that is great. If you are looking into getting your first progressive press, don't let the "Blue Kool-Aid" comments turn you off. If you like to tinker with your press to keep it running, get whatever brand/model you want. If you need to make match quality ammo without the stress, you can't go wrong with Dillon.
THANK YOU!
Looking to get in to reloading, both pistol (9, 40, and 10) and rifle (5.56, 270, various .30s, and 350) cases. For rifle, I am thinking of doing two press set-up assembly. First would be a single stage to decap, then tumble, then back to the single stage to neck size, following with a trimmer. Changing neck sizing dies to match caliber.
Second press would be a progressive set up to prime, charge, seat bullet, and crimp neck. Changing the turret with dedicated dies mounted for each particular caliber. Buying a new caliber components and turret set up each year until I have what I need to load for the rifles I have.
Would Lee's loadmaster progressive be acceptable for a budget minded, able to grow set-up?
I have absolutely no experience in reloading I decided to buy the xl750. at first I was going to get the rl 550c but I decided to just go for it. The press hasn’t arrived yet so I’m watching videos on it
I’m an hvac technician so I’m use to troubleshooting.
I hope I made the right decision.
Plus it gave me a great excuse to build an awesome workbench
I started on a progressive as well. The only problem was too many things going on at once and trying to troubleshoot them all at once. It was frustrating. What I should have done is use the progressive press as a single stage until I learned each die in and out -only use one die in one station at a time. Plus, it'll be easier to learn how to configure and adjust the dies without looking at the manual. 750 is an awesome press. You will love it.
Thanks very useful video
I own both presses Dillon is the best The hornady powder measure I have issues
Good rundown
Great video.
What about the Dillon 750 and 1050?
Iv’e owned a Dillon & a Hornady, and I’ll take the Hornady any day!
Good video, nice job.
Ive got a 550C and I really like it for high capacitry amo.Not too much for rifle precision ammo.
Had a Normandy and had problems right out of the box. Got me a Dillon 550 and no problems. I later added a Dillon 650 to my stable. Both machines are flawless.
which would you buy 550 vs 650 or now the 750
Very nice comparison. I do have a question, can you use the same powder measure on the dillon and not have to buy one for each caliber?
Thanks
Yes you can. No need to buy a new powder measure.
Has anyone tried to use two nuts on a die to see if you can keep it locked to its position on the tool head of the dillon? Basically a second lock ring to lock the die in place from the opposing pressure and then un-screwing with bottom lock ring and screwing it back in place with the top.
I used a Dillon for 5 years, but I plan on switching over to a Hornady
So you're saying is that you can't move the powder measure from 1 tool head to the other on the Dillon but you can on the Hornady and you don't need to buy lock'n'loaded die bushings for the Hornady press?
I like hornady, but a lot of the parts on the press started getting surface rust. Dont know if that happens on the Dillon.
good job! thank you
Very informative thanks for sharing
After seeing this I’m leaning toward the hornady I still think for the money Neither press should have flaws but that’s just me 😂
Great video. I have the Dillon Square deal, bought it with from an estate, Dillon’s lifetime warranty is what impressed me. Send it in for $80 shipping one way, and they repaired everything, and it came back like brand new. I know Dillon does not do it on their professional models 1050.
How is Hornaday about repairs?
Hornady is fairly hassle free for warranty stuff. You can report a broken part and they’ll send you a new one for no cost. With that said, hornady LNL is a headache. I’ve had one for about 10 years and nothing but problems. Powder dropper hates certain powders and will do dangerous loads, case feeder pretty much doesn’t work about 50% of the time where it will tip a case being pushed into the shell plate, random issues with priming system where debris will jam it up or the anvil eventually digs into the frame causing a dent and the primer feeder won’t slide at its default position. Hornady might be cheaper but trust me, spend the money and get a Dillon 750 or better. You will save lots of time and headaches dicking with the press by going for a dillon
The Dillon 650 priming system is silly. Spits primers on the floor if there's no case present. Puts primers in close proximity ready for chain detonation. The new 750 now has a priming system that closely resembles... the Hornady linear shuttle system.
It's actually the same as the priming system off the Dillon RL550, SDB, RL450, etc. which Hornady copied. What's funny is 25 years ago, people told me if I was going to buy a Dillon, to get the 650 because it had a better priming system than the 550. I think the linear system on the 750 (which I finally ordered last week) is probably better, but the 650 system still has its advantages and proponents.
XL650 here, first pressed I ever owned no issues. I agree it does get a little expensive on extra tool heads etc but then swapping calibers is pretty easy and the settings are all intact. But you don't have to buy tool heads if you don't mind setting up the dies again.
waste of money and when something goes bad your spending and hour or more to get things back on track
@@markkornytchuk7847 Yea have not had that experience. I think the worst thing that happened was crushing a 223 case and having to remove the stuck case. That was a pain. For cranking out 9mm and 223 its easy as pie and fast. Really easy. I've used a single press too but prefer the Dillion as is so much faster.
I have a garage gym / light work shop. So space is limited.
If I want to get into reloading, but I don’t want to have a dedicated reloading bench, how easily do these systems break down / set up?
(I plan on packing all my shooting and reloading gear into a vertical safe or knaack box bolted to the floor.)
I’ll be shooting enough to justify the thing, but I’ll be doing large enough batches so I don’t need to have it out but once every couple of weeks or once a month.
Thanks for the good video.
Look into the quick change press mounting system with the flush mount base plate from Inline Fabrication for use with either Dillon or Hornady systems.
inlinefabrication.com/collections/quick-change-press-mounting-system
Happy Independence Day!
I concur with Marshall Mimay's suggestion on the quick change system, however if you want a complete removal with no other bench mods/plates I'd say the Dillon is quickest to set up with the case feeder since there is no adjustment needed on the case feeder drop tube. If no case feeder then the LNL might be quicker since it only has two bolts that mount to the bench vs 4.
I have a Lee Loadmaster attached to a 2x6. When I want to use it, I just use C-clamps to attach to my bench/desk. Same thing with some single-stage presses. It is awkward to store them attached to a board, and I have had them fall but it allows mobility. I would NOT try my method with one of these full-blown systems with electronic case or bullet feeders though.
Have the Dillon 650. After you work the bugs out it's great. Dillon is the master of nickel and dimeing you to death. Also the 650 cannot load 338 Lapua. Wish I would have known that
Owned both and would choose the Dillon hands down. Only thing is it's easy to end up with $6k in the Dillon doing multiple calibers.
The lnl would spit cases out of the top and kick them out of the bottom. It would also eat the metal spring things occasionally. I really wanted to make the lnl work better, just so I could be different but there isn't a comparison. The 650 is smoother, more reliable, better warranty, easier caliber change and better resale. The only lnl advantage is the price.
I have to say after reloading multiple calibers for more than 15 years on Dillon 650, changing calibers on the LNL is so much easier. Just pull the die put the new die in that's already set up and change powder measure. Boom your off and running.
no its absolutely not easier 8 pieces just in the caliber change from case feeder, case buttons etc, hornady pop 4 dies out pop 4 dies right back in in less then 15 seconds. unscrew case plate throw on another one tighten bolt hand tight and throw on spring walla a whopping 1 minute caliber change.
Looks like a Forster Co-Ax single stage press hiding behind the Hornady. Let me state that is one AWESOME press, and my recommendation for a sweet-to-use, precise machine.
Die sets ups are ONCE, check 'em occasionaly and forgetaboutit!
Takes Lee dies too.
u got that right
I have 2 lnl app’s,2 550’s, and 2 650 dillons. The lnl is fine if you don’t add case feeder. Case feeder on lnl just does not work like the Dillons. I spent the money on lnl casefeeders,would sure make someone a good deal on the red casefeeders!
Very informative for a nube like me.
Power Pro 1200R is my favorite powder for .223
I have the Dillon 550 for 45acp and a LNL AP for 9mm & 38spl. What's the fix u mentioned on the shell casing drop extension?
something like this clear "case feed cage" mentioned here www.sassybrass.com/sassybrass/product/casecage/ Ebay has some too or you can make one yourself
I have owned both, still have the Dillon after 1 year.It became evident the the Dillon was far superior to the Hornady. So I sold LAL AMMO PLANT and have been happy ever after!
concise thanks
Die Boxes ?? With the Lock and Load you can purchase extra Lock and Load Die holders they have the same threads on the inside.. You can leave your dies set up and adjusted .. You can change dies in seconds and they are already set they way there were the last time you used them ..
There are some good videos on here to adjust and solve the Horady LnL press ...
Also if you don't use the case feeder and bullet feeder you won't have any problems there and you will save a ton of money ..
I have the single stage Hornady Iron Press, but when I go for a progressive, it’ll be the Dillon 650 with the case feeder and bullet feeder (yes, I know - $$$). Thanks for the video.
1600 buck from dillon. Bullet feeder takes a bit to get fully functional but so far like mine.
good information,hornady ammo plant look like afterthought ,dillon looks well planned
I had the opposite reaction. Dillon seems like they botched the priming system (continuous primer feed, really!?), along with other things like the press geometry blocking the view of the shellplate, the shellplate locking tabs being hard to use, and spent primer ejection being poorly thought out. I think the perfect press would essentially be the Hornady design but with the build quality of a Dillon.
I prefer the Hornady. It has many great designs to it and is well constructed. The Dillon has flimsy mechanisms and many seem to be pot metal or something. I would only buy a Dillon if it were less expensive than the Hornady, because I'd have to give up the conveniences. Mine has had zero issues. It's simply a matter of setting it up. Any piece of machinery with adjustments needs to be set up if it maybe moved in shipping. Mine was tuned out of the box.
I agree, other than setting up the dies and powder measure mine has been pretty flawless.
At the end you mentioned deciding on which press to keep. What did you decide?
I kept the Dillon and sold the Hornady
Brandon cool. Was just curious. I just bought the Hornady. Pretty much just for 9mm. I must of got lucky. Went right together and have not had a single issue YET. Other then my first 20 or so rounds. Took a few to get used to it. I forgot to prime a few and my primer slide stuck a time or two. But ever since then it’s working great. I think it was just user error at first. I think it will be sufficient for me. It’s not an ammo plant and doesn’t have a bullet or case feeder. But for me it’s plenty good enough I believe. I did buy a 223 plate as well but have not loaded any 223 on it yet. I hope it works well for 223 because I have a few thousand I need to load up. All in all I’m happy with it so far. What made me bite on it was it was on sale plus in get 500 bullets. I wish they gave you an allowance for any bullet instead of just certain bullets though. I’m going to have to get either 308 or 6.5 interloks just to maximize my rebate. I would love to get 223 or 9mm projectiles but of you do that you leave a lot of money on the table. The 223 projectiles are just 55 soft points that can be had for 10 cents or even less. The 9mm projectile is the XTP and it’s a nice projectile, but I don’t need it for plinking when I can shoot something that cost less than half that. But if I get the 6.5 or 308s that’s about 150 bucks worth of bullets back to me. So after both my shell plates and the press minus the projectiles I’ll be in the setup for 370. Much faster than loading my plinking ammo single stage.
@@halfdollar86 I actually think the hornady works pretty good without the case or bullet feeders. Its when you add either or both of those that issues start to grow exponentially.
Why are you running no brass in your press?
What kinda grease do you need to use for those zerks? Is general purpose grease just fine? Or do you need full synthetic?😆 Real question though! Also I’ve seen that one that it’s called red n tacky! Which one would be ideal?
I use whatever grease that's in my garage grease guns that I use on the cars. I've used the generic black stuff and red synthetic looking stuff. I doubt it makes a difference for this purpose.
@@zerocool4256 right on! Upon further inspection I noticed mine came with grease already in it, and the ram was oiled up.
Just a comment because you're more unfamiliar with the Dillon. A Dillon hack is to buy multiple powder dies per tool head, leave them preset and just switch the hopper at the bracket. It's actually what it's designed for. Headspace once and done.
How about if you don't want to use case or bullet feeders? Which one is easier to use if you're feeding bullets & cases by hand?
The Hornady was pretty smooth if you're manually feeding bullets and cases. The Dillon is not bad either though. Keep in mind that you'll have to insert cases with your right hand on the Dillon and bullets with your left. The hornady you'll insert bullets and cases with your left hand.
@@zerocool4256 , thanks.
@@zerocool4256 And that is a feature that many reloaders overlook. It's easy to load both bullets and cases with the Hornady using your left hand assuming you don't have a bullet or case feeder. Also, the Hornady's frame is larger and it accommodates a larger diameter shell plate giving you more room to work especially if you have big hands. The front part of the Hornady frame is offset from the 6 o'clock position to the five o'clock position so you have a much better view of the process too, much better ergonomically.
After it re sizes, how does it trim the cases?
Trimming the cases is part of brass prepping which is done before reloading. Besides, pistol brass does not need to be trimmed to length. You will lose the brass way before it needs to be trimmed.
hey love your video ! where can i buy hornady stuff as ?
Hornady products are sold everywhere and easier and cheaper to buy than the Dillion. Issues on my Hornady AP’s have all been cured with learning the press. Knowing how to adjust the press was key. I run 2 Hornady AP’s and they are easy to operate and once learned they run like a finely tuned machine which what mine is. I won’t even mention how much cheaper the Hornady is to get into. You get a bunch for little money and service from Hornady is outstanding. I am sure both presses are good but dollar for dollar Hornady hands down.
Brass Rain you have never reloaded until you have experienced this!
The answer is YES.
So I really didn’t get a good idea of which press you like best. It seems you like them both for their own strengths. So seriously, if you HAD to get rid of one(for some strange reason) which one would you keep? Honestly.
exactly what i was wondering
He sold the Hornady and kept the Dillon.
If you just want it to work, buy a Dillon.... I love my 650.
Yup. Dillon is the way to go. Started with a lee progressive and spend more time tinkering to get it to function. Sold it and purchased the 550. later I purchased a 650. Honestly, the 550 is all you need.
jawsmod
I have quite a few of the Lee indexing turret presses and they are fantastic little presses for pistol and revolver cartridges.
Lee’s cast iron single stage O frame press is ok I guess. I have one laying on the floor under one of the benches.
I don’t need it because I have three Rock Chuckers on one bench.
All other Lee presses a pretty much bargin basement junk as far as I’m concerned.
I have two 550 B presses and one XL 650.
Love my Dillon machines.
I don’t know what the difference is between the Dillon 650 and the 750
I didn’t know the 750 existed until I got that last copy of the Blue Press they mailed out this month.
The two presses look the same to me, if anybody knows what the difference is between the 650 and 750, please enlighten me !
I’m still waiting on the parts for the Hornaday AP Lock and Load from Midway,
They’re supposed to be delivered Tuesday.
I will likely be asking you guys for advice on that when I get jammed up with it.
(And I Will, I’m Sure ).
I will keep you all posted on that.
Everybody have a good night. Pete
Pete Conlogue the 750 uses the 550 priming system and they fixed the indexing so u don’t get the powder sprinkles.
@@jawsmod Lee isn't the best thing to compare to a Dillon. That's like comparing a bicycle pulling a wagon to a modern mid sized pickup. It's a given and extremely unfair.
Pete Conlogue, hi Pete, the 750 changed the primer system over to the slider type that is used on the Super 1050, getting away from the revolver style feed. There may be some other small changes but it’s my understanding that was the major change. Hope that helps.
I wanted a progressive press cause they seem really nice. I'm just planning on loading 300 AAC... but I want to pay cash for my press. This limits me to the Hornady AP because I haven't seen the Dylan press sold anywhere.
Seating primers are a pain in the ass on the LNL. It does not seat deep enough and locks up the entire press.
Is there an acoustic powder Warner for the Hornady? Because that for me would be an absolute counter argument
are u lookihng for a hornady low primer alarm i make one or low powder warning i make one
@@markkornytchuk7847 nah I bought a lee six pack and built a low primer warning myself.
@firebladeflow how's the lee working out for you? What calibers do you plan on making if you don't mind me asking?
@@MrShadow1995. Im loading 9mm and 45 on it. Already loaded around 15k. Press works like a charm.
@firebladeflow thank you for the response. Yea I've been seeing some comments bashing the lee saying it's cheap and probably won't get passed 10k without something breaking guaranteed. I have my eye on the lee six pack pro in .45 acp as someone who never reloaded yet. I thought about starting on a lee because overall I hear more positive things.
The Hornady is brutal. Have never gotten past 50 rounds without something going wrong, Spills powder with smaller cartridges. Go blue
Good video, 2 things, first it isn't the thickness of the grease, I believe you pumped too much, also you do not have to buy a powder drop for each tool head you transfer the powder drop to the next tool head, also the Dillon has a lifetime warranty and produces match grade ammo.
why is there a C clamp on the horandy bullet feeder?
He mentioned that in the video. It has to be attached to the bench and as it is quite new, he simply clamped it to the bench.
I always read how great Dillon was, I wanted to “upgrade” from my RCBS Piggyback. Before I ordered a 550 I called as asked if I needed to use their dies, the person I spoke with said my current RCBS, Redding, and Hornady dies would work. I could never get a consistent powder drop. I called Dillon to ask about tips and/or tricks. All the guy did was read the manual to me. I tried a few more days before I returned it.
So does the dillion come in only 1 caliber i was looking at their website and it has to have a conversation kit to select? Brand new to reloading and wanna go with a dillion
Your typical dillon kit will come with one caliber conversion kit. That's basically all the little parts that pertain to that caliber you select except for the dies. If you want to add another caliber after that you'd need at least a caliber conversion kit, dies and case feeder plate I think. Check out double alpha academy if you're purchasing online. You can chat with them online to make sure you get everything you need.
The 'conversation' kit is to talk back to you when you cuss it. It also tries to talk you into buying more stuff from them!