Thanks, Steven. It seems like the UNECE have turned from being obstructive to actually working in a constructive way for once. Good to see. What you didn't mention is the wholly arbitrary limitation on speed through bends. For me, this would be the single best improvement they could make. Having to disable AP because the car is forced to take a bend ridiculously slowly is a major irritation. Now, if only Tesla could do something about the glacial speed the whole process is moving at...
It's all about lateral G-forces there and I've covered that topic many times already. It's also still with the same restrictions in DCAS. Maybe up to 4m/s2 if we get lucky. But Tesla should easily slow down before the bend. It does so in several occasions, but in many occasions it does not. That is on Tesla
@@StevenPeeters Yes, I appreciate that. I'd just like the car to be allowed to behave as if it was an average responsible driver at the wheel - neither inconsiderate racer nor the myopic granny the regulations currently stipulate.
Thanks again Steven for a really clear report. You have a great grasp of what's a fairly complicated topic and you explained everything so clearly here. Well done!
In the homologation industry we call DCAS Level 2.99, since the border between L2 and L3 seems awfully scary to cross to a lot of manufacturers due to the shift in responsibility :)
Thank you, at last i found someone that i can follow this in Europe (Norway in my case). BUT - can you explain something for me: i see that its going to require years before we have fsd on level 3 etc. Mich above mentions that this is desaster for us FSD buyers.. so, - what i am curious about: do we have the same problem for the beta version 11.3.2 wide release at level 2? Or to be clear, cant we get the new single stack FSD in europe not even with «driver responsible level 2 with the «nag on wheel»?? I mean, we allready have todays preview FSD version going like this, and i cannot see any reason why i cant have 11.3.2 preview on my car as long as i the driver is responsible.
@@datagurukaptein There are 2 parts to your question if I understand correctly. First is whether we will also be under L2 when FSD bete hits Europe. And that is a clear "yes". You will still be monitored, either through the steering wheel or through the interior camera. Second part is whether we can get the visualisations and I don't really see that happening until we are also put on the same single stack solution. Right now, there are 2 main code branches: FSD beta and the rest of us. And rewriting the non-FSD stack to include every FSD visualisation is probably too much effort for the limited added value.
Thank you, - good info. I still dont understand why we cannot get the single stack version - just for testing, like they have in us for a very long time. I mean, is it safer to «selfdrive» with my version??
@@datagurukaptein it’s legal on the one hand. And Tesla’s focus is dolely on FSD beta in the US now. I’m working with several owners clubs in Europe to get Tesla to improve on our version within the current regulatory framework.
Hi Seven! Nice summary, thank you. My impression is that my Tesla started to improve on speed sign recognition even including digital signs in DE and A. Is that right or am I just imagining? Also, the single stack fsd from v13 could be limited to highways and rolled out in Europe with limited functionality, right? I guess Tesla is not thrilled to maintain two code stacks with an overlap
It definitely got much better on digital signs on the German Autobahn which sometimes are changed and displayed above the road. My M3P then suggests that speed but as soon as there’s another speed set on the map, it switches back. Very bad behavior.
Great Video Steven, thank you. I have a question around R157. My understanding is that as well as the 130km/h single lane, they also approved automated lane changes too. Is that your understanding too? I missed it if you mentioned this. Quote from the new approval below "The amendment to UN Regulation No. 157 adopted today by the World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations extends the maximum speed for Automated Driving System (ADS) for passenger cars and light duty vehicles up to 130 km/h on motorways, and allows automated lane changes, among other dispositions. It will enter into force in January 2023 in those contracting parties which decide to apply it."
Yes, I mentioned this in the reporting of that decision last year. But again, only under L3 regulation, not for L2 AutoPilot or FSD yet. The auto lane change is, as explained, also taken into the DCAS regulations
Thank you as always, for doing this. Am wondering if the regs cover scenarios where the car finds its way blocked, either because of a road closure, an accident, fallen tree etc.
Hi Steven, Thanks for another informative update on where we stand! I'm currently waiting on a model Y LR delivery, and still debating whether I should add the EAP package yet. I'm mostly interested in the highway features like navigate on autopilot and auto lane change. Would you recommend adding that package as it is today (with the nerfing of the other features since the ultrasound sensors have been scrapped)? Thanks for your insights 🙂
Judging by your name, you're not living in the US or Canada. The main difference without ultrasonics is Navigate on AP, which will only do lane suggestions and requires a manual start of the lane change for auto lane change. The other features are not yet active. If you don't buy it, you will have to put up with constant pling-ploings when deactivating and reactivating AP each time you do a lane change. If that is worth the money for you, then do it. Otherwise, wait until the USS features are implemented again. Summon and smart summon are a party trick at best anyways, even with USS.
@@StevenPeetersI would confirm that. Bought the EAP for 3 things: more autonomous driving on the highway -> as you have to hit the right time to set the turn light and then have to pull a little on the steering wheel it’s nice but not worth extra money. Then autonomous parking: why in the world does this work so badly on Teslas? Even on my friends opel it works perfectly. And third: summon: not smart but regular: with 6m range and the GPS being not that precise it’s really crap. Would have needed it several times to don’t get my shoes dirty but didn’t work well at all. Save your money on that one I would say.
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Great video, but I miss a little gist at the end. If I understand correctly there is progress on real driver-not-responsible self-driving in about 2025 and supervised self-driving (What FSD Beta in the USA is) is dependent on good driver monitoring ? Of course real L3+ driving is interesting, but what exactly i holding back a FSD similar to USA rollout ?
In general terms, a car is not allowed to make any decidion on its own. No auto lane change. Not even manually initiated lane change on roads where pedestrians and cyclists are allowed. Very limited lateral acceleration in curves. Highway exit taking also forbidden. That has been taken away several months ago. This video explains in detail how AP is crippled here since 2019. th-cam.com/video/SxwrD0MMZxE/w-d-xo.html
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@@StevenPeeters That means even when supervised by a driver it cannot do anything other than lateral and lane-keeping ? So driver assistance will not improve until the companies take liability ? interesting approach
I think you're overly optimistic on the time lines and the scope, looking at the protocol from the February -23 session. The WG seems to be pretty divided at this point. Also, UNECE regulation doesn't equal allowed. R157 is still not put into EU law, except for Germany.
It depends on the type of regulation. Some are immediately active, such as R79, with basic AP, since it is still you thst is responsible. When talking about L3 hands-off driving, local laws need to ne adjusted as niwhere you are legally allowed to use your phone, let alone laptop, while driving. Each country thrn needs to adjust their laws before it is allowed
@@SailingFloh Absolutely! Might take one or 2 weeks before the report is made public though. But as soon as it is out, i'll report on it. Hopefully with good news
With 130 km/h allowed for level 3 on highway we seem to be waiting on manufactures now. The regulation and law is ahead in this regard. Especially for Tesla since they have promised self driving for ages and have been able to say it was the regulations that limits them. But now there are no excuses. I believe the single stack version FSD Beta version 11 is key for Tesla to deliver a level 3 highway system for Europe. They stopped real development of the stack we are currently on here and so it is good they are now again working on a stack for highway driving. I also think you need the improved awareness that FSD Beta has to deliver a safe level 3 system, even if it is limited to highway driving. The current system is simply not good enough. I have one question however. It seems that the fact that UNECE approved a level 3 system means you can import a car with such system in every EU country and probably also use it. If the country has no law like Germany, that just means it would not be legal to use the system without being alert to traffic at all times. You could still let go of the wheel to sit back and watch the traffic. But it would be illegal to write an email or use a handheld cellphone even though the car would not complain. I know that the Mercedes system only works in Germany but that might be a voluntary choice of Mercedes.
You are confusing capability with responsibility. While they are of course tied to each other, it leans that as soon as L3 hands-off is not allowed in a country, the system falls back to L2, which requires you to hold the steering wheel every 15s. It's all about responsibility when it comes to the regulations and how to keep the driver engaged as long as the car is not driving itself.
@@StevenPeeters possibly but Danish law says absolutely nothing about 15 seconds nor anything else about how a car should behave. All danish law says is that the car should follow the UNECE regulations. Therefore there is nothing that requires the car to fall back to level 2 when crossing the border from Germany to Denmark. However danish law does regulate how the driver should behave. So you better keep your eyes on the road after crossing that border.
@@BaldurNorddahl That is the whole R79 and R157 thing. it applies to all countries without need for local laws. If the driver needs to pay attention, it is L2 again. If driver attention is not enforced by hands on steering wheel, then it is not L2, but still L3 and then you could take out your phone again. The eyes-on system could replace the nag, but not for older Model S and X, as they don't have an interior camera.
@@BaldurNorddahl Also keep in mind that the end goal is to have a single regulation for L2 and not the split up between ADAS and DCAS. But in any case, bith will remain L2
@@StevenPeeters yes but my point is that we would be getting level 3 cars that you are legally obligated to use as a level 2. Which people of course will ignore. In any case it should mean no nags while in this mode.
If they are defining all these rules I think regulator solved self driving by themselves and they might aswell write the software code for the car... Unfortunately that is not how it works. If the car has to follow all those strict rules we will never get self driving cars in EU. The rules are already present and are called "Traffic Laws" the same human drivers use.
The relevant group right now is GRVA _groupe des rapporteurs véhicules automatisés_ (as a subgroup of WP.29, _the UNECE World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations): __GRVA deals with safety provisions related to the dynamics of vehicles (braking, steering), Advanced Driver Assistance Systems, Automated Driving Systems and well as Cyber Security provisions._ Presumably, the point is to create standards that manufacturers can comply with, and methods for testing for compliance. Then the manufacturer can say in their ads that they "comply with regulation X", and the customer can then assume the vehicle passed the tests. But before you can do that, you obviously need to figure out what the standards should be. And I'm assuming that all standards (except the steering-wheel-less, which don't look like they will be available in the near future) will have a way to say "I'm sorry, I can't do that, Dave", and have the driver take over. Presumably, as long as you do that when you can't conform to some part of the standard, you'll be fine.
The problem is that humans are really good at recognising and interpreting situations. For computers it’s just ones and zeroes. AI tries to mimic human thinking, but it’s not that at all. I like to compare it with the question of why is a car a car. For us, it is easy to spot a competely new car and see that it is a car. But why? 4 wheels? A quad bike has that too. A roof on top of wheels? Some motorcycles have that too. A computer needs clear definitions. For example, it can only do a lane change when it poses no dangervto other traffic. Define “no danger”. That is where the regulations and the formulas step in
@@StevenPeeters I disagree, if you are able to define how to drive we can just code the software without using any machine learning AI but it is basically impossible as an infinite number of "no danger" situations can exist. The only things that regular should do is monitor the system performance and give a score based on the self driving car accident rates and define different classes. Like class A (1/10 of human accidents), B (1/3 of human accidents), (1/2 of human accidents), etc.. And if some systems get worse results of human drivers they need to be improved to be allowed to use for all
@@StefanoFinocchiaro ADS is allowed in most EU countries on a trail permissions based system, just like in many US states. In the US there is no federal regulation for L3 on highways @ 130 km/h so I'd argue that UNECE is leading the way there. The driver-assist in a wider scope (which is DCAS) is a different beast, and many traffic safety researchers are not convinced it's the right way to go even.
Steven, your understanding is correct as a European user : please watch many more FSD BETA videos from the US. Many cover much of what you consider to be “missing” in FSD.
It's cool that Carmakers are allowed now to do all this, but no one can. Tesla cant even read speed signs on the highway properly let alone village signs.😁
Driving only 60 km/h per hour on a highway can even be illegal in Germany under some circumstances, because it is not allowed to drive so slow that you hinder the flow of the traffic. 60 km/h is the minimum speed that your car has to be capable of in order to use the highway. That does not mean though that 60 km/h is the minimum speed on highways, if the traffic allows it. If your car could drive more than 60 km/h, but you only drive 60 km/h, in theory that could mean that you slow down traffic without a valid reason. Not sure if "Self driving allows only 60 km/h" is a valid reason not to drive faster by disabling self driving. I am not sure if anybody was ever fined for driving only 60 km/h though and if 130 km/h are allowed for FSD now, that may be a problem of the past anyway. The future should be that electric self driving cars are allowed to drive much faster than humans, as they drive much safer. Sometimes speed limits are just a result of physics. For example the radius of a curve does not allow higher speeds. Very often speed limits are just a consequence of the limited driving skills of humans. Those speed limits should not apply to self driving cars. I can even imagine extra lanes of extra roads just for self driving cars to reduce the risk that a human crashes into them. 300 km/h should be the standard for self driving cars on most highways.
Thank you for the interesting update on regulations in Europe (EU?) I wonder if anybody knows whether Switzerland follows the EU like it does in other (not always reasonable) regulations…🥸?
Seems to be a very hard concept to grasp as I get questions like these all the time. These regulations are UN regulations, not EU regulations. They also apply to Switzerland, the UK, South-Africa and even Australia to name a few.
Thanks for this clear and concise update on the European ADAS regulations.
You are welcome
Thanks, Steven. It seems like the UNECE have turned from being obstructive to actually working in a constructive way for once. Good to see.
What you didn't mention is the wholly arbitrary limitation on speed through bends. For me, this would be the single best improvement they could make. Having to disable AP because the car is forced to take a bend ridiculously slowly is a major irritation.
Now, if only Tesla could do something about the glacial speed the whole process is moving at...
It's all about lateral G-forces there and I've covered that topic many times already. It's also still with the same restrictions in DCAS. Maybe up to 4m/s2 if we get lucky. But Tesla should easily slow down before the bend. It does so in several occasions, but in many occasions it does not. That is on Tesla
@@StevenPeeters Yes, I appreciate that. I'd just like the car to be allowed to behave as if it was an average responsible driver at the wheel - neither inconsiderate racer nor the myopic granny the regulations currently stipulate.
@@jayarbe60 We all want that, but that will require more regulations to be put in place before that can happen.
Thank you for the update! Let’s hope things start moving quickly and smooth
Thanks again Steven for a really clear report. You have a great grasp of what's a fairly complicated topic and you explained everything so clearly here. Well done!
You are welcome
In the homologation industry we call DCAS Level 2.99, since the border between L2 and L3 seems awfully scary to cross to a lot of manufacturers due to the shift in responsibility :)
Thanks for the update, more often please! Unfortunately it sounds like a disaster for anyone who has bought FSD in Europe
It has been a while since there was any real change worth mentioning. Will follow up…
Thank you, at last i found someone that i can follow this in Europe (Norway in my case). BUT - can you explain something for me: i see that its going to require years before we have fsd on level 3 etc. Mich above mentions that this is desaster for us FSD buyers.. so, - what i am curious about: do we have the same problem for the beta version 11.3.2 wide release at level 2? Or to be clear, cant we get the new single stack FSD in europe not even with «driver responsible level 2 with the «nag on wheel»?? I mean, we allready have todays preview FSD version going like this, and i cannot see any reason why i cant have 11.3.2 preview on my car as long as i the driver is responsible.
@@datagurukaptein There are 2 parts to your question if I understand correctly. First is whether we will also be under L2 when FSD bete hits Europe. And that is a clear "yes". You will still be monitored, either through the steering wheel or through the interior camera. Second part is whether we can get the visualisations and I don't really see that happening until we are also put on the same single stack solution. Right now, there are 2 main code branches: FSD beta and the rest of us. And rewriting the non-FSD stack to include every FSD visualisation is probably too much effort for the limited added value.
Thank you, - good info. I still dont understand why we cannot get the single stack version - just for testing, like they have in us for a very long time. I mean, is it safer to «selfdrive» with my version??
@@datagurukaptein it’s legal on the one hand. And Tesla’s focus is dolely on FSD beta in the US now.
I’m working with several owners clubs in Europe to get Tesla to improve on our version within the current regulatory framework.
Thank you again! Great update! And in Finland we also use the term "child desease" :D
Great test. Mostly all that matters in the current ev market
Hi Seven! Nice summary, thank you.
My impression is that my Tesla started to improve on speed sign recognition even including digital signs in DE and A. Is that right or am I just imagining?
Also, the single stack fsd from v13 could be limited to highways and rolled out in Europe with limited functionality, right? I guess Tesla is not thrilled to maintain two code stacks with an overlap
Yes, we are hoping that single stack will get a EU version soon. Haven't seen digital sign reading in Belgium though.
It definitely got much better on digital signs on the German Autobahn which sometimes are changed and displayed above the road. My M3P then suggests that speed but as soon as there’s another speed set on the map, it switches back. Very bad behavior.
Great Video Steven, thank you. I have a question around R157. My understanding is that as well as the 130km/h single lane, they also approved automated lane changes too.
Is that your understanding too? I missed it if you mentioned this.
Quote from the new approval below
"The amendment to UN Regulation No. 157 adopted today by the World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations extends the maximum speed for Automated Driving System (ADS) for passenger cars and light duty vehicles up to 130 km/h on motorways, and allows automated lane changes, among other dispositions. It will enter into force in January 2023 in those contracting parties which decide to apply it."
Yes, I mentioned this in the reporting of that decision last year. But again, only under L3 regulation, not for L2 AutoPilot or FSD yet. The auto lane change is, as explained, also taken into the DCAS regulations
Idk but I counted how long my indicator was on for and it was on for 10 seconds before the lane change began oddly enough
Thanks for the welcome update
Thank you as always, for doing this. Am wondering if the regs cover scenarios where the car finds its way blocked, either because of a road closure, an accident, fallen tree etc.
Thise would be scenarios where the driver has to take over. Hence the L2 on the system, even in the US
Hi Steven,
Thanks for another informative update on where we stand!
I'm currently waiting on a model Y LR delivery, and still debating whether I should add the EAP package yet. I'm mostly interested in the highway features like navigate on autopilot and auto lane change. Would you recommend adding that package as it is today (with the nerfing of the other features since the ultrasound sensors have been scrapped)? Thanks for your insights 🙂
Judging by your name, you're not living in the US or Canada. The main difference without ultrasonics is Navigate on AP, which will only do lane suggestions and requires a manual start of the lane change for auto lane change. The other features are not yet active. If you don't buy it, you will have to put up with constant pling-ploings when deactivating and reactivating AP each time you do a lane change. If that is worth the money for you, then do it. Otherwise, wait until the USS features are implemented again.
Summon and smart summon are a party trick at best anyways, even with USS.
@@StevenPeetersI would confirm that.
Bought the EAP for 3 things: more autonomous driving on the highway -> as you have to hit the right time to set the turn light and then have to pull a little on the steering wheel it’s nice but not worth extra money. Then autonomous parking: why in the world does this work so badly on Teslas? Even on my friends opel it works perfectly. And third: summon: not smart but regular: with 6m range and the GPS being not that precise it’s really crap. Would have needed it several times to don’t get my shoes dirty but didn’t work well at all.
Save your money on that one I would say.
Great video, but I miss a little gist at the end. If I understand correctly there is progress on real driver-not-responsible self-driving in about 2025 and supervised self-driving (What FSD Beta in the USA is) is dependent on good driver monitoring ?
Of course real L3+ driving is interesting, but what exactly i holding back a FSD similar to USA rollout ?
In general terms, a car is not allowed to make any decidion on its own. No auto lane change. Not even manually initiated lane change on roads where pedestrians and cyclists are allowed. Very limited lateral acceleration in curves. Highway exit taking also forbidden. That has been taken away several months ago.
This video explains in detail how AP is crippled here since 2019.
th-cam.com/video/SxwrD0MMZxE/w-d-xo.html
@@StevenPeeters That means even when supervised by a driver it cannot do anything other than lateral and lane-keeping ? So driver assistance will not improve until the companies take liability ? interesting approach
@ no, that is incorrect. The DCAS regulation is the L2 adjustment that allows for FSD beta and all its functionality
I think you're overly optimistic on the time lines and the scope, looking at the protocol from the February -23 session. The WG seems to be pretty divided at this point. Also, UNECE regulation doesn't equal allowed. R157 is still not put into EU law, except for Germany.
Thanks!
Great video Steven.
Thanks 👍
Great! Please can you add some depth to the legal impact that UNECE has on different EU countries . IS IT guidance/ advice or legislation.
It depends on the type of regulation. Some are immediately active, such as R79, with basic AP, since it is still you thst is responsible. When talking about L3 hands-off driving, local laws need to ne adjusted as niwhere you are legally allowed to use your phone, let alone laptop, while driving. Each country thrn needs to adjust their laws before it is allowed
Any news on that? now it is September are they finished? 😊
Next week is the meeting
@@StevenPeeters cool could you make an updaten video after that ?
@@SailingFloh Absolutely! Might take one or 2 weeks before the report is made public though. But as soon as it is out, i'll report on it. Hopefully with good news
Any new Updates or News on that topic?
I believe that the hands-on proposal is shifted to September. But haven't checked the latest yet. Just got back from holiday
@@StevenPeeters Cool where do you check that? Is there a official Site from the UNECE?
@@SailingFloh yes. Unece.org/info/events
With 130 km/h allowed for level 3 on highway we seem to be waiting on manufactures now. The regulation and law is ahead in this regard. Especially for Tesla since they have promised self driving for ages and have been able to say it was the regulations that limits them. But now there are no excuses.
I believe the single stack version FSD Beta version 11 is key for Tesla to deliver a level 3 highway system for Europe. They stopped real development of the stack we are currently on here and so it is good they are now again working on a stack for highway driving. I also think you need the improved awareness that FSD Beta has to deliver a safe level 3 system, even if it is limited to highway driving. The current system is simply not good enough.
I have one question however. It seems that the fact that UNECE approved a level 3 system means you can import a car with such system in every EU country and probably also use it. If the country has no law like Germany, that just means it would not be legal to use the system without being alert to traffic at all times. You could still let go of the wheel to sit back and watch the traffic. But it would be illegal to write an email or use a handheld cellphone even though the car would not complain. I know that the Mercedes system only works in Germany but that might be a voluntary choice of Mercedes.
You are confusing capability with responsibility. While they are of course tied to each other, it leans that as soon as L3 hands-off is not allowed in a country, the system falls back to L2, which requires you to hold the steering wheel every 15s. It's all about responsibility when it comes to the regulations and how to keep the driver engaged as long as the car is not driving itself.
@@StevenPeeters possibly but Danish law says absolutely nothing about 15 seconds nor anything else about how a car should behave. All danish law says is that the car should follow the UNECE regulations. Therefore there is nothing that requires the car to fall back to level 2 when crossing the border from Germany to Denmark.
However danish law does regulate how the driver should behave. So you better keep your eyes on the road after crossing that border.
@@BaldurNorddahl That is the whole R79 and R157 thing. it applies to all countries without need for local laws. If the driver needs to pay attention, it is L2 again. If driver attention is not enforced by hands on steering wheel, then it is not L2, but still L3 and then you could take out your phone again. The eyes-on system could replace the nag, but not for older Model S and X, as they don't have an interior camera.
@@BaldurNorddahl Also keep in mind that the end goal is to have a single regulation for L2 and not the split up between ADAS and DCAS. But in any case, bith will remain L2
@@StevenPeeters yes but my point is that we would be getting level 3 cars that you are legally obligated to use as a level 2. Which people of course will ignore. In any case it should mean no nags while in this mode.
any updates?
Not really. September meeting will be crucial to determine whether or not January is still feasiblevto allow fsdbeta
@@StevenPeeters thanks for your answer :)
@@blocbonbon I will provide an update as soon as the report is available
so when could this draft get final approval? Thanks for the update
It’s in the video. June 2024
If they are defining all these rules I think regulator solved self driving by themselves and they might aswell write the software code for the car... Unfortunately that is not how it works. If the car has to follow all those strict rules we will never get self driving cars in EU. The rules are already present and are called "Traffic Laws" the same human drivers use.
The relevant group right now is GRVA _groupe des rapporteurs véhicules automatisés_ (as a subgroup of WP.29, _the UNECE World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations): __GRVA deals with safety provisions related to the dynamics of vehicles (braking, steering), Advanced Driver Assistance Systems, Automated Driving Systems and well as Cyber Security provisions._
Presumably, the point is to create standards that manufacturers can comply with, and methods for testing for compliance. Then the manufacturer can say in their ads that they "comply with regulation X", and the customer can then assume the vehicle passed the tests. But before you can do that, you obviously need to figure out what the standards should be.
And I'm assuming that all standards (except the steering-wheel-less, which don't look like they will be available in the near future) will have a way to say "I'm sorry, I can't do that, Dave", and have the driver take over. Presumably, as long as you do that when you can't conform to some part of the standard, you'll be fine.
The problem is that humans are really good at recognising and interpreting situations. For computers it’s just ones and zeroes. AI tries to mimic human thinking, but it’s not that at all.
I like to compare it with the question of why is a car a car. For us, it is easy to spot a competely new car and see that it is a car. But why? 4 wheels? A quad bike has that too. A roof on top of wheels? Some motorcycles have that too. A computer needs clear definitions. For example, it can only do a lane change when it poses no dangervto other traffic. Define “no danger”. That is where the regulations and the formulas step in
@@StevenPeeters I disagree, if you are able to define how to drive we can just code the software without using any machine learning AI but it is basically impossible as an infinite number of "no danger" situations can exist. The only things that regular should do is monitor the system performance and give a score based on the self driving car accident rates and define different classes. Like class A (1/10 of human accidents), B (1/3 of human accidents), (1/2 of human accidents), etc.. And if some systems get worse results of human drivers they need to be improved to be allowed to use for all
With all theses regulations they are basically slowing down progress an we will probably never see any true self driving car in Europe
@@StefanoFinocchiaro ADS is allowed in most EU countries on a trail permissions based system, just like in many US states. In the US there is no federal regulation for L3 on highways @ 130 km/h so I'd argue that UNECE is leading the way there. The driver-assist in a wider scope (which is DCAS) is a different beast, and many traffic safety researchers are not convinced it's the right way to go even.
I understood that US FSD Beta drivers were now free of the “Nag” ?
As far as I know, not all of them. But again, the US is not bound by WP29 and thus not bound by the UNECE regulations on this subject.
US FSD Beta users still have the nag currently
🤙
Are you on Twitter? This video is pretty important to the Tesla Community
Yes, posted @Tesla and @elon. Handle is aikisteve. Feel free to re-share everywhere you can. Much appreciated
Steven, your understanding is correct as a European user : please watch many more FSD BETA videos from the US. Many cover much of what you consider to be “missing” in FSD.
Of course, I cover the European version. That is the point. The US is not affected by these regulations
It's cool that Carmakers are allowed now to do all this, but no one can. Tesla cant even read speed signs on the highway properly let alone village signs.😁
Getting the regulations in place before the technology is capable is the ideal scenario
In the US Tesla can read speed signs properly now
But in Europe don't work for a reason I don't know
@@tv-ld3wv completely different software branch. That is the problem
allez nog een jaar ! :p
2 eigenlijk 😉
"teething problems" is the English version of "child diseases".
Thanks. It just sounded odd when I said it but didn’t know the proper term. Learned something new 😀
@@StevenPeeters It can also be said as "teething trouble". Depends on the context a bit - as usual with English. 😁
Driving only 60 km/h per hour on a highway can even be illegal in Germany under some circumstances, because it is not allowed to drive so slow that you hinder the flow of the traffic. 60 km/h is the minimum speed that your car has to be capable of in order to use the highway. That does not mean though that 60 km/h is the minimum speed on highways, if the traffic allows it. If your car could drive more than 60 km/h, but you only drive 60 km/h, in theory that could mean that you slow down traffic without a valid reason. Not sure if "Self driving allows only 60 km/h" is a valid reason not to drive faster by disabling self driving.
I am not sure if anybody was ever fined for driving only 60 km/h though and if 130 km/h are allowed for FSD now, that may be a problem of the past anyway.
The future should be that electric self driving cars are allowed to drive much faster than humans, as they drive much safer. Sometimes speed limits are just a result of physics. For example the radius of a curve does not allow higher speeds. Very often speed limits are just a consequence of the limited driving skills of humans. Those speed limits should not apply to self driving cars. I can even imagine extra lanes of extra roads just for self driving cars to reduce the risk that a human crashes into them. 300 km/h should be the standard for self driving cars on most highways.
It’s a traffic jam assistant right now
Thank you for the interesting update on regulations in Europe (EU?)
I wonder if anybody knows whether Switzerland follows the EU like it does in other (not always reasonable) regulations…🥸?
Seems to be a very hard concept to grasp as I get questions like these all the time. These regulations are UN regulations, not EU regulations. They also apply to Switzerland, the UK, South-Africa and even Australia to name a few.
Thanks!