You see. It’s the mental game. You see a Ganondorf you think “easy” and just don’t try. Then you’re down 2 stocks and realize the person you’re fighting is actually good.
... or if your in a battle arena, they just blame it on lag they know isn’t there and just kick you. Most times they’ll just kick you before the match even starts for using a low tier/ “brain dead” character.
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead. If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
Ganon isn’t THAT bad. I mean, at least he has heavy hitting attacks and a supper addicting Doriyah. Plus, if your opponents mess up, and you mess up as well, you still win.
@@rageboy9803 I mean, in the highest level of competition where messups aren't very common, Ganon just straight up dies when faced against players who know what to do.
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead. If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
@@Doberbull dark samus has cool animations and feels different from samus.Sonic had just gallsmslapped to him depsite having much more. Though I agree dark samus really has alot of potential.
@@toneyaustin2386 Yeah but hitler didn't have sick schoomovement. It's not really the same as talking about ww2 without mentioning hitler because talking about nairo's smash achievement is very close to awarding unlike hitler who's always demonized when talked about what he's done.
People lose to Ganon because it takes less hits to win. Just because he has less speed doesn’t mean it isn’t impossible to lose against him. If you want an answer, watch Poppt1 video on Nairo vs Light. It breaks down what is essentially optimal Ganon against optimal Fox, and how the Ganon won.
The character who is the easiest to get in (sakurai said that Ganon has the highest amount of elite smash players, but loses the most once at the higher level)
Still waiting for the competitive history of Captain Falcon. The way you guys build and present all of this info has me hyped for Cap's history. Keep up the awesome videos!
@@goGothitaLOL I know. I've seen it like ten times. But I also like pro guides' take on it. Always like to see info presented from a different perspective.
@@redrebellion6028 You're spot on for most of them. For ultimate though, I think he's actually high tier. Before all of the buffs, mid tier no doubt. After the buffs, pretty good contender for mid high tier or upper high tier in my opinion.
Common proguides you can’t just completely Ignore a huge part of Ultimate Ganon’s early meta. 13:04 we understand the situation with Nairo but censoring history is not the way to go.
So you expect them to just casually mention someone who is possibly a pedophile and sex offender? I understand that Gabon’s early Meta was riding on Nairo but idk if they feel comfortable praising his skill
@@EllieMiller510 history is history. If we aren’t supposed to praise the positive traits of criminals or people who are morally questionable, what about Hillary Clinton, O.J. Simpson, David and Paul from the Bible, or Jesse James? They all unquestionably committed major crimes, but are often praised, and are an important part of history.
@@Ironwill3004 right, like the thing people talk about with OJ is his sports career rather than the axe murders, the thing that cost human lives. Nairo's pluses, he was really good at a videogame, his minuses, he groomed and potentially scarred minors for life. If Nairo's great accomplishment was causing a great change in the world that saved potentially hundreds of people, then yeah, maybe we'd let him have the praise along with the condemnation, "being good at a game" isn't worth preserving considering his terrible actions, no matter how hype he might have been.
Smash 4 Ganondorf? You love Smash 4 Ganondorf? I played Zelda, Jiggly puff and Little Mac and even a little DeeDee and Ganon was the only Low-Tier that I felt truly helpless with. Ganon fucking sucked in Smash 4.
@@spreadwuvokay it was a joke I mained random and I hated it when I got this princess with a knight as her down B I also hated it when I got this blue man who doesn't have a jab never knew how to play as that one
If they gave Ganon and decent speed he'd be a monster. Imagine if they severely reduced the end lag on his side-B or Down-B so that he could act out of them almost immediately as great burst options
mained ganon all the way trough smash 4 till today (Now I have a pocket mewtwo tho), and by god I love him also I've never seen anyone not liking ganon, either to play as or play against. I think he's the most fun character in the game
I still wish they would actually make ganondorf have his own moveset and just put in Black Shadow from f-zero to be the slow powerful clone of Captain Falcon. ganondorf being a clone of Captain Falcon doesn't make any sense because they're not even from the same series and Captain falcon's from the future and Ganondorf is from the past
At the very least, Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead. If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
Yes He has a short wavedash but why should you wavedash when you can Just perform a koopabackdashwaveslide hoverwalkmoonlanding and Slide Like with luigis wavedash
All ganondorf needs is a better recovery and projectile. We all know that heavy can be good because of bowser and bowser even also have an abyssimal recoveryZ
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead. If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
@@boonanaman7 I personally think seperate person from player, but I think they're justified in the fact that they want to not get in trouble with everyone and also to avoid hurting their brand.
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead. If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
Bro it even showed Nairo's name on the screen when he showed gameplay. The narrator could've at least blurred his name out if he didn't want to mention Nairo lol
@@gomezfreshh9897 yeah but they also just didn't acknowledge the match at all besides the gameplay they had in the background shortly. And this is arguably one of three best sets for ganon in all of smash history
Yeah I mean. I totally get he’s a terrible person mr REDACTED. But it’s about the Ganon meta. And what he did for the character at least competitively should be acknowledged. Like maybe don’t say he’s name, just light. The game play. We shouldn’t just bleach or have one single clip. History. Which this supposedly is to be, is important. Just phrase it as, and one of the biggest upsets. By ganondorf. Of an as of recent, the player doing so has been cut out of the scene. Reversed 3-0d light with the counter pick of ganondorf, hard punishing and capitalizing with small hits and reads. He did say Ganon is bad in all sense of the word, em I right
I was just wondering why Ganondorf is in the very middle of the tiers. Before I get into what I mean, allow me to first put out there that I have been playing for years, and I have watched MANY videos of the tournament masters. My brother and I found out, through years of play, literally EVERY advanced technique in the game, except the wavedash, which we stumbled upon, but wrote off as simply hilarious. I was surprised to find that all the wacky observations we have encountered and adapted are actually defined in the glossary in the sticky topic above! Three of the particularly surprising terms that I could not believe had been widely known and utilized were the Phantom Hit (I just thought I had a glitchy game) and that effect where recovering at the right time from attacks that sent you flying results in an upward boost if you jump out/air dodge/whatever early enough (I cannot remember what it was called in the sticky), and the waveland. Now, I have been using Ganondorf against my brother lately, and he cannot seem to beat me. We think we know why, and we think it puts Ganon at the top of the tiers. I will be brief. Ganondorf has his air forward. We call it 'The Punch.' It has that special hitbox like a sword, hence it goes right through anything except an attack with that same type of hitbox. It does 17% max, is relatively fast executing, has basically instant recovery on a barrier cancel, and is quite massive, killing at rather low percentages. If he misses, he can just do his A punch if the opponent tries to retaliate, or shield/roll. I am telling you, Ganondorf is a crazy meat mountain who crushes bones with many attacks doing 15+%, survives to insane damages thanks to his weight, and has ridiculous horizontal recovery (Double Jump, Ganondorf Kick Down B, ANOTHER Double Jump, ARE YOU SERIOUS, Up B). Next, check his roll. It goes like half screen. It makes him rather fast, nearly eliminating his speed problem on the ground, and a great character when it comes to the defensive game. It pretty much eliminates the need for his wavedash, which, with Ganondorf, who needs to do most of his attacking from hops, is pretty much useless already unless you are looking to smash attack. Wavesmashing, however, in my opinion, is also a bad idea, because, in the time and damage it takes you to actually land a smash, you could have just used The Punch and killed you opponent by then. Even though he has to fight mostly in the air, 3 of his 4 air attacks are pretty fast, and are quite massive. A major advantage he has is that nearly all his attacks move the opponent considerably, and can topple him from 0%, so his opponent gets little to no counterattack opportunity. The only explanation I can find for why he is low on the tiers is that no one has used him seriously. I think he really keeps up, if not tops, the top tier characters. I really do not like to simply shoot my mouth, and I am not one who thinks it right to shower a character in encomium, and never actually prove anything. Is there online for this somewhere, or is that simply wishful thinking? If not, please do not yell at me and stuff until you at least check out The Punch. Goes right through projectiles, goes right through attacks, goes right through faces. Please just give Ganondorf another shot and tell me what you thnk. Final Comment: People have a tendency to think that posts from newcomers to a board but veterans of its respective game are saying they are better than everyone else, regardles of what the post actually says. Please note that I did not say 'I am better than you' or 'Ganon is better than Fox.' I said, essentially: 'Ganon seems to be great. These are his strengths. He may top Fox. Check him out and see if you agree.' I will say, however, that I am a full master of Ganondorf. Please give Ganondorf a second look before responding so you know where I am coming from!
For anyone that’s good and knows his moves none of the things u listed really matter. Plus he literally cannot get back to stage if u hit him far enough. I see what u mean, he’s great defensively and offensively (sort of) but literal shit off stage. Also when I play online I haven’t lost to a Ganondorf once no lie.. the game is almost always close and I main fucking zero suit who’s mad squishy.. my gsp fluctuates from like 3,000,000 to 5,000,0000 so I’m not playing against complete trash. To sum things up he’s pretty bad .. decent at best
"It's arguable if the New smash attacks are better than smash 4's, but they're already iconic" *DORIY-* AD It's like it was intentional to sync up with the midroll like that
@@Lovehandleman he had an affair or sexually assaulted a minor depending on who you ask, I don't think pretending he doesn't exist makes sense but people aren't proud of having him in the community so that's why
Here's some extra--- in 2006 a guy wrote ~How to wield the Triforce of Power~. It was a 27 page guide that influenced many smashers including one Thomas Tipman who created his own guide named after it. The dude that wrote that guide competed in tournaments up and down the west coast from 2006-2008 showcasing a fast ganon' until he retired. ---the guys name was ~Shin_Ganondorf~ who also happends to be me.
My favourite memory of Smash 4 was when I went to a play to enter free to use the games arcade there was a Smash 4 setup and someone kept winning with Bayonetta, then I decided why not and asked if he minded a game and 2 stocked him with Ganondorf finishing with a side B suicide
It's better for their brand. They most likely don't want to associate with anyone who has... A problematic situation. Though I still believe seperate player from person.
@Mateo Lopez of course I know, it was irony meant to point out that, in the USA, if you are sexually assaulted by a teenager when you are drunk, not only your life is over but even your legacy is erased, unspeakable.
Early meta where people generally thought heavies (let alone Ganon) were considered good at one point Look where all (not named Bowser) are at on the tier-list now?
I like how Ganondorf in zelda is a King of Evil, but everyone in the smash community sees him this way, because that's how Ganon FEELS to play. His design subtly reinforces the idea, both in gameplay and in Ultimates design of him. Think about it, his cape is a carpet, literally a message of his peoples poverty, and his big hits can easily snowball into a surprising victory. When I tell people I main Ganon in smash, and people ask me why, I believe it's the feel of being an underdog, a historically bad charecter and still winning, is just so awesome. I just love smash ganondorf
@@FlackBackTV exactly. He is statistically bad but what he is good at makes it so he can always come back and it makes him the most volatile lowtier character. He can change any losing situation with a few good reads.
having an unbalanced character list is actually really fun, not in extreme cases like in brawl or meta knight but having low tiers and high tiers that are fun to play against is really good
Everyone salts so, SOOOOO much against Ganon... I love it. I don't even care if I get comboed, that's every game. What happens after is what really decides the match.
@@largin386 You are completely right but based on previous patches, a change in a character's base stats is something that will probably never happen. Instead, I tried to address fair as it is a move that is lackluster compared to his other aerials.
@@its_hokori no, he got involved got in drama It has to do with him and Zack behind the whole Nario drama do he ain't no rapist unlike Nario. Check out the video(s) on a channel named The Narrater for more info
As a Ganon I was getting frustrated with his matchups... I was considering dropping him cause I kept getting gimped. Thank you for this video, this was what I needed to keep on going with him.
I like to play and main Ganondorf because is so fun to play. In all my friends grupe no one can win to the ganon, i'm not the best but it's nice to me winning whit him, it's like a motivational message for me
the wavedash problem can be fixed by just Koopabackdashwaveslide Hoverwalkmoonlanding and ganondorfs Koopabackdashwaveslide Hoverwalkmoonland is one of the best in the game almost beating luigis wavedash
As a Meta Knight main one of my favorite things to do is touch of death characters, Ganon being one of the easiest to do that to. King Dedede gang for life
there's no way melee ganon is low tier. he has too many historic results, representation and good tools to be considered on the level of Zelda/Kirby/Pichu/Bowser. He's at a similar level as Doc/Samus.
I swear the moment I see Ganondorf pop up as my next opponent, I physiologically play worse because I know how strong he is in Ultimate and it makes me choke more times than in willing to admit
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead. If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
Ganondorf is my new main in ultimate i think. He's a funny man But i like that we didn't include nairo destroying light at frostbite 2019 i think it was with ganon
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead. If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
It could be, just buff his recovery. Having a bad recovery is not a major element of his gameplay design,, and his terrible recovery is the main thing keeping him low tier
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead. If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
Ganondorf: I am bad, and that's good! I will never be good, and that's not bad! There's no one I'd rather be... than me.
As a Ganon main, I approve this message. The buffs may never come, but Ganon would not be the same if he was a top tier.
Exactly...DORIYAH
Wreck-It Ralph reference. How nice.
I have successfully convinced my friend that he is high b tier.
Oml yes.
You see. It’s the mental game. You see a Ganondorf you think “easy” and just don’t try. Then you’re down 2 stocks and realize the person you’re fighting is actually good.
Lol literally
I couldn’t agree more
That’s how Gannon works. Even in pro games. It’s why he’s trash but can still do decent in tournaments
... or if your in a battle arena, they just blame it on lag they know isn’t there and just kick you. Most times they’ll just kick you before the match even starts for using a low tier/ “brain dead” character.
That's when you say "Ok, now I'll try!!"
Then he ganonside you and you die at 0%
The "competitive" history of ganondorf
Here's Ganon's comp history: Bizzaro Flame and all downhill from there
Bizzaro was stylish but nowhere near the best Ganon
None and Kage
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead.
If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
@@goGothitaLOL ganondorf still could use a burst movement option. You wouldn't need warlock punch when you already have his up tilt
my favorite dark humor
Oooh let’s see bowser next. He’s had quite the history
Melee: *Up-B*
Brawl: Footage not found
Sm4sh: Pivot grab > Up Throw > Up Air
Ultimate: *Up-B*
He embodies the stared from the bottom now we here
It’s only been improving for him really. He was a decent counterpick in 4 and is definitely viable this game
DavisH Mayo yeah a high tier threat in ultimate. Compare that to melee where he’s garbage tier.
It's sad that Ganon is trash, but at least we have Doriyah
tru dat!
It’s sad that the F-Zero hasn’t got a installment in OVER 15 YEARS
Ganon isn’t THAT bad. I mean, at least he has heavy hitting attacks and a supper addicting Doriyah. Plus, if your opponents mess up, and you mess up as well, you still win.
@@rageboy9803 I mean, in the highest level of competition where messups aren't very common, Ganon just straight up dies when faced against players who know what to do.
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead.
If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
"Are low tiers bad game design?"
No sonic is arguably the worst designed character and void puts him in A+
Disagree. Dark Samus is the worst designed lol
@@Doberbull dark samus has cool animations and feels different from samus.Sonic had just gallsmslapped to him depsite having much more.
Though I agree dark samus really has alot of potential.
Low tiers = Bad Game design
Bad Game design ≠ Low tier
Spin. Spin. Spin. Spin. Spin. Spin. Spin in a different way. Spin.
HugLife kirby is well designed though
I like how every Ganondorf video has to exclude ahem that one guy vs light.
@@boonanaman7 I am mean the edited out the Ganondorf players face
13:04 but they did block out the face cams.
I don’t like it. It’s like talking about the history of ww2 without mentioning Hitler.
@@toneyaustin2386 Yeah but hitler didn't have sick schoomovement. It's not really the same as talking about ww2 without mentioning hitler because talking about nairo's smash achievement is very close to awarding unlike hitler who's always demonized when talked about what he's done.
It's actually kinda sad seeing how he's been basically wiped from existence
"The Competitive History if Ganondorf in Smash" or lack there of.
Ah, my main, literally the only character I have in Elite Smash.
Ganni mains unite!
I’m too bad to get any one to elite smash 😔
People lose to Ganon because it takes less hits to win. Just because he has less speed doesn’t mean it isn’t impossible to lose against him. If you want an answer, watch Poppt1 video on Nairo vs Light. It breaks down what is essentially optimal Ganon against optimal Fox, and how the Ganon won.
@@hideokojima9090 you shouldn't if you actually play well against ganon
The character who is the easiest to get in (sakurai said that Ganon has the highest amount of elite smash players, but loses the most once at the higher level)
Still waiting for the competitive history of Captain Falcon. The way you guys build and present all of this info has me hyped for Cap's history. Keep up the awesome videos!
False Swipe Gaming done it
@@goGothitaLOL I know. I've seen it like ten times. But I also like pro guides' take on it. Always like to see info presented from a different perspective.
64:3rd best
Melee: pretty good
Brawl: one of the worst
4:decent
Ult: upper mid
@@redrebellion6028 You're spot on for most of them. For ultimate though, I think he's actually high tier. Before all of the buffs, mid tier no doubt. After the buffs, pretty good contender for mid high tier or upper high tier in my opinion.
I wouldn’t say melee Ganon is low tier, he’s pretty much mid tier, potentially viable even
Yeah, he's considered by many Melee pros as the best worst character
Pro guides: understandable, have a great day.
Common proguides you can’t just completely Ignore a huge part of Ultimate Ganon’s early meta. 13:04 we understand the situation with Nairo but censoring history is not the way to go.
So you expect them to just casually mention someone who is possibly a pedophile and sex offender? I understand that Gabon’s early Meta was riding on Nairo but idk if they feel comfortable praising his skill
@@EllieMiller510 history is history. If we aren’t supposed to praise the positive traits of criminals or people who are morally questionable, what about Hillary Clinton, O.J. Simpson, David and Paul from the Bible, or Jesse James? They all unquestionably committed major crimes, but are often praised, and are an important part of history.
they mentioned ZeRo in their "top 10 most slept on characters" video idk why nairos ganon isnt here
@@Ironwill3004 right, like the thing people talk about with OJ is his sports career rather than the axe murders, the thing that cost human lives. Nairo's pluses, he was really good at a videogame, his minuses, he groomed and potentially scarred minors for life. If Nairo's great accomplishment was causing a great change in the world that saved potentially hundreds of people, then yeah, maybe we'd let him have the praise along with the condemnation, "being good at a game" isn't worth preserving considering his terrible actions, no matter how hype he might have been.
@@Ironwill3004 there's a thing called context
This is going to be a sad, sad video
I love Smash 4 Ganondorf. He's one of the reasons I go back to that game.
Smash 4 Ganondorf? You love Smash 4 Ganondorf? I played Zelda, Jiggly puff and Little Mac and even a little DeeDee and Ganon was the only Low-Tier that I felt truly helpless with. Ganon fucking sucked in Smash 4.
@@spreadwuvokay it was a joke I mained random and I hated it when I got this princess with a knight as her down B I also hated it when I got this blue man who doesn't have a jab never knew how to play as that one
If they gave Ganon and decent speed he'd be a monster. Imagine if they severely reduced the end lag on his side-B or Down-B so that he could act out of them almost immediately as great burst options
mained ganon all the way trough smash 4 till today (Now I have a pocket mewtwo tho), and by god I love him
also I've never seen anyone not liking ganon, either to play as or play against. I think he's the most fun character in the game
I still wish they would actually make ganondorf have his own moveset and just put in Black Shadow from f-zero to be the slow powerful clone of Captain Falcon. ganondorf being a clone of Captain Falcon doesn't make any sense because they're not even from the same series and Captain falcon's from the future and Ganondorf is from the past
At the very least, Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead.
If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
Was wondering if they were gonna talk about the light vs nairo set. Seems like they kinda breezed past it with a small clip
Better than pretending he never existed.
Yes He has a short wavedash but why should you wavedash when you can Just perform a koopabackdashwaveslide hoverwalkmoonlanding and Slide Like with luigis wavedash
All ganondorf needs is a better recovery and projectile. We all know that heavy can be good because of bowser and bowser even also have an abyssimal recoveryZ
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead.
If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
13:03 that’s just rude
I thought i was the only who notice
Blocking out the cameras? Yeah I get why they did it tho
Yeah they did it since Nairo did some bad stuff but blocking the cameras is too far
boonanaman yeah I agree not light tho he’s a good boy :(
@@boonanaman7 I personally think seperate person from player, but I think they're justified in the fact that they want to not get in trouble with everyone and also to avoid hurting their brand.
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead.
If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
A single projectile would make a huge difference. I don't care how mediocre it is, I would practice and make it work. Just give it.
Bring back his untechable side b and grab through ledge up b
Man this is sad we can't even talk about REDACTED vs Light. Sad times man
Fr bro 😔
Bro it even showed Nairo's name on the screen when he showed gameplay. The narrator could've at least blurred his name out if he didn't want to mention Nairo lol
@@gomezfreshh9897 yeah but they also just didn't acknowledge the match at all besides the gameplay they had in the background shortly. And this is arguably one of three best sets for ganon in all of smash history
I noticed that they replaced the player cam with npcs rip.
Yeah I mean. I totally get he’s a terrible person mr REDACTED. But it’s about the Ganon meta. And what he did for the character at least competitively should be acknowledged. Like maybe don’t say he’s name, just light. The game play. We shouldn’t just bleach or have one single clip. History. Which this supposedly is to be, is important.
Just phrase it as, and one of the biggest upsets. By ganondorf. Of an as of recent, the player doing so has been cut out of the scene. Reversed 3-0d light with the counter pick of ganondorf, hard punishing and capitalizing with small hits and reads.
He did say Ganon is bad in all sense of the word, em I right
10:45 dude that punish was god like
A good way to tell if someone's a casual player or competitive player is by asking them if they want Ganondorf decloned.
I was just wondering why Ganondorf is in the very middle of the tiers. Before I get into what I mean, allow me to first put out there that I have been playing for years, and I have watched MANY videos of the tournament masters.
My brother and I found out, through years of play, literally EVERY advanced technique in the game, except the wavedash, which we stumbled upon, but wrote off as simply hilarious. I was surprised to find that all the wacky observations we have encountered and adapted are actually defined in the glossary in the sticky topic above! Three of the particularly surprising terms that I could not believe had been widely known and utilized were the Phantom Hit (I just thought I had a glitchy game) and that effect where recovering at the right time from attacks that sent you flying results in an upward boost if you jump out/air dodge/whatever early enough (I cannot remember what it was called in the sticky), and the waveland.
Now, I have been using Ganondorf against my brother lately, and he cannot seem to beat me. We think we know why, and we think it puts Ganon at the top of the tiers. I will be brief. Ganondorf has his air forward. We call it 'The Punch.' It has that special hitbox like a sword, hence it goes right through anything except an attack with that same type of hitbox. It does 17% max, is relatively fast executing, has basically instant recovery on a barrier cancel, and is quite massive, killing at rather low percentages.
If he misses, he can just do his A punch if the opponent tries to retaliate, or shield/roll. I am telling you, Ganondorf is a crazy meat mountain who crushes bones with many attacks doing 15+%, survives to insane damages thanks to his weight, and has ridiculous horizontal recovery (Double Jump, Ganondorf Kick Down B, ANOTHER Double Jump, ARE YOU SERIOUS, Up B).
Next, check his roll. It goes like half screen. It makes him rather fast, nearly eliminating his speed problem on the ground, and a great character when it comes to the defensive game. It pretty much eliminates the need for his wavedash, which, with Ganondorf, who needs to do most of his attacking from hops, is pretty much useless already unless you are looking to smash attack. Wavesmashing, however, in my opinion, is also a bad idea, because, in the time and damage it takes you to actually land a smash, you could have just used The Punch and killed you opponent by then.
Even though he has to fight mostly in the air, 3 of his 4 air attacks are pretty fast, and are quite massive. A major advantage he has is that nearly all his attacks move the opponent considerably, and can topple him from 0%, so his opponent gets little to no counterattack opportunity.
The only explanation I can find for why he is low on the tiers is that no one has used him seriously. I think he really keeps up, if not tops, the top tier characters.
I really do not like to simply shoot my mouth, and I am not one who thinks it right to shower a character in encomium, and never actually prove anything. Is there online for this somewhere, or is that simply wishful thinking? If not, please do not yell at me and stuff until you at least check out The Punch. Goes right through projectiles, goes right through attacks, goes right through faces. Please just give Ganondorf another shot and tell me what you thnk.
Final Comment: People have a tendency to think that posts from newcomers to a board but veterans of its respective game are saying they are better than everyone else, regardles of what the post actually says. Please note that I did not say 'I am better than you' or 'Ganon is better than Fox.' I said, essentially: 'Ganon seems to be great. These are his strengths. He may top Fox. Check him out and see if you agree.' I will say, however, that I am a full master of Ganondorf.
Please give Ganondorf a second look before responding so you know where I am coming from!
For anyone that’s good and knows his moves none of the things u listed really matter. Plus he literally cannot get back to stage if u hit him far enough. I see what u mean, he’s great defensively and offensively (sort of) but literal shit off stage. Also when I play online I haven’t lost to a Ganondorf once no lie.. the game is almost always close and I main fucking zero suit who’s mad squishy.. my gsp fluctuates from like 3,000,000 to 5,000,0000 so I’m not playing against complete trash. To sum things up he’s pretty bad .. decent at best
@@prod.trademoney8456 this is a copypasta from 2008 lol
"It's arguable if the New smash attacks are better than smash 4's, but they're already iconic"
*DORIY-* AD
It's like it was intentional to sync up with the midroll like that
The right read or your opponent makes a critical mistake in edgeguarding and ganon's victory feels all the more sweeter as he laughs.
Can't even mention Nairo's win on Light with Ganon.
Idk why people treat him like voldemort
@@Lovehandleman he had an affair or sexually assaulted a minor depending on who you ask, I don't think pretending he doesn't exist makes sense but people aren't proud of having him in the community so that's why
Proguides hasn't mentioned the name of any outted player I've noticed, they even cut the playercams and zoomed the footage in a few sets with them.
@@farmingsim9813 cause people get upset when they see them
What if you wanted to go to heaven but Ganondorf said:DORIYAH
Here's some extra---
in 2006 a guy wrote ~How to wield the Triforce of Power~. It was a 27 page guide that influenced many smashers including one Thomas Tipman who created his own guide named after it. The dude that wrote that guide competed in tournaments up and down the west coast from 2006-2008 showcasing a fast ganon' until he retired. ---the guys name was ~Shin_Ganondorf~ who also happends to be me.
We not gonna mention Nairo at 13:04?
Like Ally, etc. Nairo need be in jail. But why not say his name? This was the smash history, like or not.
You're really playing DMCA russian roulette with the acoustic gerudo valley at the end.
My favourite memory of Smash 4 was when I went to a play to enter free to use the games arcade there was a Smash 4 setup and someone kept winning with Bayonetta, then I decided why not and asked if he minded a game and 2 stocked him with Ganondorf finishing with a side B suicide
So Nairo literally erase from existence?
It's better for their brand. They most likely don't want to associate with anyone who has... A problematic situation. Though I still believe seperate player from person.
anyone knows the name of that guy who beat Light with Ganon? sounds strange he didn't even mention
@Mateo Lopez of course I know, it was irony meant to point out that, in the USA, if you are sexually assaulted by a teenager when you are drunk, not only your life is over but even your legacy is erased, unspeakable.
Man, anyone else notice how they censored Light vs Nairo?
At one point people thought Ganon was at the top of mid tier in Ultimate
Early meta where people generally thought heavies (let alone Ganon) were considered good at one point
Look where all (not named Bowser) are at on the tier-list now?
Almost 7 months into the game ZeRo put Ganon at the top of mid tier. That wasn't early meta.
Let’s see King Dedede’s history he has one of the most interesting character histories
@@largin386 bottom 5? nah you trippin
at 0:18 I literally thought that it was mang0 and Zero playing. They look so similar
Ganondorf is the underdog anime protagonist that changes destiny when he wins.
I like how Ganondorf in zelda is a King of Evil, but everyone in the smash community sees him this way, because that's how Ganon FEELS to play. His design subtly reinforces the idea, both in gameplay and in Ultimates design of him. Think about it, his cape is a carpet, literally a message of his peoples poverty, and his big hits can easily snowball into a surprising victory.
When I tell people I main Ganon in smash, and people ask me why, I believe it's the feel of being an underdog, a historically bad charecter and still winning, is just so awesome. I just love smash ganondorf
@@FlackBackTV exactly. He is statistically bad but what he is good at makes it so he can always come back and it makes him the most volatile lowtier character. He can change any losing situation with a few good reads.
It’s sad we couldn’t mention you know who’s set vs light
Competitive history of Adult Link next?
Mewtwo: "really low teir all villans?..."sure"
Wolf?
Pichu?
@@frienderoo meta knight and dark pit are not high teir but up mid
@@ABAgamer_ how is he a villain?
@@jameshutter8114 You'll never know.
having an unbalanced character list is actually really fun, not in extreme cases like in brawl or meta knight but having low tiers and high tiers that are fun to play against is really good
Everyone salts so, SOOOOO much against Ganon... I love it. I don't even care if I get comboed, that's every game. What happens after is what really decides the match.
When captain falcon
Funni drivey bird man go falcon kick!1!!1!11
I wish they finished the 64 characters before they moved on to melees
I miss getting destroyed by smash 4 Ganon's side B
He's one of my favorite match ups with my bro where he's Ganon and I'm Samus. I'd desperately try to time a missle as he wifs.
Ganon's fair should have 3 frames less startup, and 2 frames less landing lag.
@@largin386 You are completely right but based on previous patches, a change in a character's base stats is something that will probably never happen. Instead, I tried to address fair as it is a move that is lackluster compared to his other aerials.
Omg they censored light vs nairo
They'll censor Nario (again) for ZSS and Palutena and maybe the late Samsora for Peach
@@goGothitaLOL wym the laste samsora? did he pass?
@@its_hokori no, he got involved got in drama
It has to do with him and Zack behind the whole Nario drama do he ain't no rapist unlike Nario. Check out the video(s) on a channel named The Narrater for more info
As a Ganon I was getting frustrated with his matchups... I was considering dropping him cause I kept getting gimped. Thank you for this video, this was what I needed to keep on going with him.
I like to play and main Ganondorf because is so fun to play. In all my friends grupe no one can win to the ganon, i'm not the best but it's nice to me winning whit him, it's like a motivational message for me
Can you fix him now, please?
I love ganon favorite heavy in ultimate
Ganon got buffed so hard in ultimate if he charges f-smash it will magnetize the opponent toward it.
Ganondorf: Historically known for being a bad character for the past installments he was existing in
Little Mac: Are you challenging me?
YOSHI NEXT?!
When is competitive history of Captain Falcon
Maybe Ganon should get his super jump back in ultimate
"most fighting games have low tiers"
Laughs in Project M
Tell that to Olimar. The poor guy went from a top tier in Brawl to a consistent bottom tier in Project M’s many versions.
EVERY GAME including PM had low tiers. Whether it be because they're bad or other characters are just better.
@@MK-bi1hj true but u get what i mean
Nairo reverse 3-0 Light?
Maybe they don't want to mention that name.
I’d enjoy a competitive history of Donkey Kong
Next competitive history of sonic
Please do Link next!! He has an interesting story to tell.
the wavedash problem can be fixed by just Koopabackdashwaveslide Hoverwalkmoonlanding and ganondorfs Koopabackdashwaveslide Hoverwalkmoonland is one of the best in the game almost beating luigis wavedash
13:03 They blocked the face cams. Nice
Great vid do luigi next!! :D
8:35 ganon could fly? (jump very high?)
no one:
absolutely no one:
not a single soul:
quickplay noobs after seeing this video: *so you have chosen, DORIYAH*
Ganonforf is for noobs in general, even more in Ultimate
Stop the ":" memes they aren't funny
@@Krazykarlton Agree
As a Meta Knight main one of my favorite things to do is touch of death characters, Ganon being one of the easiest to do that to. King Dedede gang for life
there's no way melee ganon is low tier. he has too many historic results, representation and good tools to be considered on the level of Zelda/Kirby/Pichu/Bowser. He's at a similar level as Doc/Samus.
Ganon is the lord of darkness and smash bros is a fighting game. Fighting beats dark.
Has the triforce of power but not the triforce of getting back to the stage
I swear the moment I see Ganondorf pop up as my next opponent, I physiologically play worse because I know how strong he is in Ultimate and it makes me choke more times than in willing to admit
Competitive Ganon? Never heard of it🤔
Now you need to fix him
Make Ganondorfs UP B Spike Like Byleths and boom. Nobody Dares to edgeguard him
You’d still just kill him offstage
Ganon is prolly the only reason I enjoy playing Ultimate, his moves are just SOOOO ENTERTAINING. He's an absolute UNIT 😂
Poor poor ganondorf.
Never got his own moveset, and outclassed by other villains competitively.
At least he's fun to troll with
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead.
If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
@@goGothitaLOL absolutely.
Ganondorf and wario are the movesets I'm most disappointed with
@@kimaster5893 Why wario???????
@@lmao2302 aside from the dash attack, and down throw, wario lacks attacks from the land series.
Can't wait to hear how [Redacted] won a major with Ganon.
Who's the [redacted] person
Oh wait you're talking about Nairo, for some reason I thought you were talking about Melee
"Villains are made to lose so they're always bottom tier"
I really wish this logic applied to Sephiroth.
Make Ganon's side-b not put him into freefall (like little mac) and he'll jump into solid mid tier easy!
Ganondorf is my new main in ultimate i think. He's a funny man
But i like that we didn't include nairo destroying light at frostbite 2019 i think it was with ganon
13:03
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! THANKS FOR MAKING THIS, I WANTED THIS SO BADLY LOL
The King Of Evil is the Low Tier Hero we need.
No, the Low-Tier God we truly need
Ultimate ganon is quite good
13:30 smash 64 luigi: Am I a joke to you?
you gotta love a bit of doriyah!
Next you need to do a "competitive history of Pikadorf".
Great vid.
lifelong Ganon main, I appreciate this video
Favorite series
More Videos like this please!
"true to character" he's a clone of captain falcon
Right lol. You’d think by now they’d just change his whole move set
@@Diispaceyone I mean most of his attacks (not specials) changed lol like all his smash attacks but I get the joke though
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead.
If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
Ganondorf is good and hype but his design isn't suitable to high competitive level in smash ultimate.
Agreed
It could be, just buff his recovery. Having a bad recovery is not a major element of his gameplay design,, and his terrible recovery is the main thing keeping him low tier
Dead Man's Volley really should've been his one projectile. The cape would reflect other's projectiles as well as his own, think of it as a Counter/Reflect hybrid thing but replace the former with projectile instead.
If one of his specials his to go to make space, it would be either Warlock Punch or Wizard's Foot
@@marsupialmole3926 not just his recovery he lacks a lot in mobility, not great frame data, most of his attacks are slow..
exactly, he's designed for casual/free for all scenarios.
You guys should also talk about matchups in each game more
What competitive history?