Durable Outdoor Finish?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 เม.ย. 2017
- Watch our latest video! "Refinishing a Retro Heywood Wakefield Desk With A Stunning New Look!"
• Transforming A Retro H... -~-
*2019 Update*
Unfortunately, this attempt at a “bulletproof” finish didn’t hold up. After two years, the finish is cracking and peeling. While it might be tempting to put 100% of the blame on the finish itself, there were other factors at play here. First, this table received full sun exposure in Denver. At our high elevation, the UV rays are particularly potent and there aren’t many film finishes that can survive that kind of torture. Second, the wood itself is incredibly soft. That means the table dented and scratched easily. Wherever a scratch occurred, there was a point of infiltration for the elements and the finish simply lifted from there. And third, the breadboard end design is problematic for a film finish. As the table expands and contracts, the finish will split and create another point of infiltration.
As a point of reference, I have this same finish on two Adirondack Chairs (mahogany) and a garden gate (white oak), all of which are mostly shaded during the day but still exposed to weather, and those are holding up great. To see how this finish held up and what I ultimately did about it, check out this video: • Repurposed Outdoor Cof...
For an extensive article on this process, check this out: www.thewoodwhisperer.com/video...
Looking for a durable outdoor finish? You’ve come to the right place! Looking for an inexpensive solution that will never require any maintenance? This is not the finish for you. Good quality marine finishes are not cheap. In fact, I am pretty sure the finishing materials cost as much as the wood! And while they can produce one of the most durable and long-lasting finishes available to woodworkers, they will eventually require maintenance thanks to the unrelenting power of Mother Nature. My goal is to put off that maintenance for as long as possible.
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Epifanes High Gloss - amzn.to/2pLxzYM
Epifanes Matte - amzn.to/2oZc1YK
Total Boat Epoxy Sealer - amzn.to/2p3opc7
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This finish didn't hold up as expected, due to a number of factors. So before you try it, be sure to read the update in the description above.
Do you think that a high gloss coat would have held up better??
Thank you for posting the update!
Thanks for the update as I was highly suspecting that it wouldn't hold up long in outdoor setting being a resin type product. I've found an organic outdoor furniture oil easier and still matt finish and I just have to rub some more on 6monthly or yearly (which takes 5mins) and if it needs cleaning first a acid deck cleaner works well. I can't help but wonder if a bees wax oil mix may also be as easy and durable in the weather with 6monthly reapplication?.. One day I'll try it.
The Wood Whisperer- Couple quick questions... I am looking to finish a bottle cap table for exterior use. I wanted to do an epoxy clear fill on the top, there is a lip for it. Or should I polyurethane multiple times to ensure a longer stay with UV and harsh weather exposure? Can I do a layer of epoxy (1/16-1/8 inch) and then polyurethane on top to help the cure? I would love recommendations if you have any. Thank you
Thanks for giving the update!!
I subscribed for the sole reason that you provided an update to say you were unsatisfied with the results. 95% of youtube posters claim to be experts by showing how to do something and then never providing an update months or years later. You're the man!
I second this. Many thanks for the followup.
I've had the chance to use this table a couple of times now. It's fun to whip out in front of people:) I can see what people are talking about when they say the legs are delicate, but they're design to support a "mostly" vertical load, not be torqued from the side or pushed back into place. If you just let the table open or close on it's own and don't force anything, it works great th-cam.com/users/postUgkxyFZUPFEey-PuqsPMxqaykBhgA1LWxFHh Once it's set up, it's pretty solid. My only gripe would probably be related to the clamps provided. They're not the highest quality. They do the job, so no big deal, but they could be better. All in all, pretty cool gadget.
the author does like to from scratch, shaping and trimming wood from large blocks into fine finished products. th-cam.com/users/postUgkxD-QRFQz730FJEh4f9BYSf-nkIMIC9hL_ as another reviewer mentioned, most projects require a lot of high-dollar equipment that most of us dont have the room or budget for. But, knowing how to do these things, even if we wont be able to practice the full stack project, is still great.
Thank you SO much for posting this and your 2019 update. I feel your pain. That's a lot of work, money and effort to go through for it to not wait at least 5 years before falling apart!!
That table turned out amazing. I mostly do home repairs but I'm getting into more wood working.
Reducing epoxy always extends the cure. You can offset this by adding additional hardener. When you reduce you are adding additional base components which is why the reaction is significantly slowed. For instance, polyester resins harden because of a molecular chain reaction. You need enough resin and hardener to complete the reaction for a period of time. When reducing polyester additional hardener is needed to offset the additional volume of ketones added to thin.. Or even filler to thicken. Epoxy works differently as the hardener reacts with with acetone and two phenol molecules. By adding additional acetone to epoxy you actually added base to the mix. Epoxy works on cross linked hydrogen atoms. The additional acetone present prevents the cross link until evaporation or it is absorbed. Next time add more hardener... Play with a small amount of the specific resin to learn how it cuts with acetone. Hope this helps in the future. Thanks for your videos.
Additionally, thinning with either acetone or lacquer thinner usually will reduce the hardness of the cured epoxy.
Great video, Marc. It's especially timely with the coming of spring. I'm using this finishing schedule right now on some chairs for my deck. Thanks mate!
if that a been me...when I sloshed that epoxy all over the top and tried to sand that rock hard mess it would made a me fall off the wagon and enter a booze infused weekend of poorly lit bars and gray haired barflys speckled with skintags all mishmashed into loud music and vague attempts at dancing ending in a cheap motel sunday morning with an aching head with no recollections of how the sheets wound up ont on the floor..your a better man then me..I'm glad you held it all together
LMAO !!!
Sounds like a fun weekend to me.
This might be an old comment, but it's hilarious (and that's coming from a woman).
Thanks for the instructional. I’m completing a breadboard oak table for outdoors and my thoughts were to do the exact same finish. You took it a level up. Thanks for showing how it’s done
Let me share with you what I learned back in the mid 70's as far as finishes that withstand weather and in particular the dreaded ultra violet rays that cause finishes to break down and also wood to discolor and break down.
This started with a job that I got from a man who started his own company on the side from his regular job working at the Chrysler Auto trim plant. For the finish on the speaker cabinets he contracted me to build he specified Tung Oil to be used as the finish. He also gave me a education about Tung Oil, it being a natural product from the nut from the Tung tree that is native to China. Tung Oil is sold under many different kinds of finish and you have to read the can to find the right finish. Seems that most of the finish companies mix Tung Oil with other types of finish then market it as Tung Oil, which it is not anymore.
This was critical to my client as he wanted a durable finish that would last for years without the common problem of being exposed to ultraviolet rays and temperature changes. Because of his regular job at the Chrysler auto trim plant he used all the finishes applied to wood and exposed them to weather in the climate chamber they used there to test interior and exterior trim materials to determine what holds up to different weather conditions from all over the surface of the Earth. He brought in a wide variety of samples he had tested and only Tung Oil was unaffected by all conditions in the climate chamber. The key here is to make sure you are using "pure" Tung Oil and not a mixture of several other finishing materials mixed in with Tung Oil.
Tung Oil is very easy to apply and will build up to a very nice finish and really will hold up to weather conditions. I have used it on entry doors in Las Vegas where I live with a southwest exposure to direct sun with no deterioration to the finish, that is saying something for wood with brutal sunlight on the outside and cool air conditioned air on the interior side.
It made a believer out of me and it is my go to finish for any exterior project.
James, typically how many coats do you find yourself putting on your exterior projects, and do you thin the first few coats with mineral spirits to improve absorption?
cajunfid I apply 3 to 4 coats of Tung oil full strength, wiping it on with a lint free cloth. light sanding between coats. this in my opinion is one of the easiest finishes to apply.
Everything I learned in the 70s was............... never mind I can't remember the 70s
FDA approved it as a food safe surface. Should be ok, just make sure it's pure tung oil not some mixture marketed as tung oil.
@James Stanlake - I finished a new cedar mailbox last year with Formby's tung oil (which is a mix), and over a matter of a few months it started to discolor from black mold. I sprayed it with an an antifungal solution and the mold rinsed away. After some googling, I read other reports of tung oil being a favorite of black mold. My plan is to sand and refinish with Minwax® Helmsman® Spar Urethane, designed for outdoor use.
Holy smokes! That's a lot of work. No denying it looks nice though. I really like that matte look for outdoors.
After all that work I would have to move it into the dining room out of the weather.
I was only looking for a video about outdoor finish that I can use on a wooden bench I plan to make for my balcony. Instead, I get this super informative and very pleasant video about applying a finish that will make any outdoor project last for centuries! That's just freakin awesome!
That's a dedicated refinishing process! Beautiful table. Love the breadboard ends
I think it turned out looking 10 times more beautiful than it already was. Awesome video
This is definitely one of the best projects I`ve seen for about last 2 years! Matte finish looks so great that I want to finish every wooden thing matte from now :D
great video! new woodworkers need to know that a good finish sometimes takes longer than the build, but is just as important. nice to see how products I haven't used work in real life.
Marc, Friday streams are all good but I have to tell you that it's videos like this that motivate me to go build something! Thanks for the upload.
Glad you liked it! Thanks JD.
Thank you much! Finally there is something what makes me feel better. Even if Master of Finishing (you) ran into tons of work with outdoors furniture it makes all my own labor less difficult. Once again, thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge.
I'm so blown away with the finished work. SUPER NICE!
Thanks for this video!! I didn't know very much about how wood interacted with different types of protective coatings. It was a huge help, to realize the process a lot better with the way you explained things. Hope you got to enjoy that table on the 4th of July weekend, with your family and friends!
I am IN LOVE with that finish! I'd be interested to see it on some more exotic looking woods.
Ahh, loved that table when you built it and still love it now. Great stuff. Steve Ramsey always talks about how the most durable finish is paint, and there's a lot of sense to that, but boy, sometimes it just breaks my heart to paint wood furniture.
+Dave Starr yeah if I want paint, I'll use a more durable material than wood.
Dave Starr oh good ol paint...gotta love it! Being in the field I am (decorative painter..aka faux finisher) id love to know if this is really true. I know a lot about paint chemistry n solids ratio, but very little about epoxy makeup and finial hardness since I’ve only been woodworking for a year. Honestly, I’d imagine epoxy would beat paint every time for solids & film coverage abilities. Maybe someday I’ll meet someone who knows as much about it as I do paint & we can answer that question together 🤓
Looks amazing! IDK how I haven't seen the build on this table, I feel like I've gone through most of the videos!
Love the matte look.
I loved your commentary. It was entertaining and I chuckled a few times. I watched the entire video out of pure curiosity. Good job on the table. It's quite beautiful!
That's, by far, the most beautiful outdoor table I've ever seen! Love it!
Wow...I love the mini tip with the blue tape to prevent dripping!
Gorgeous work, great tips, and funny! :D Thank you for sharing your project. You aught to be proud.
Can we get an update please? I'd love to see how it held up after a year.
Good to see another project from you after quite some time. cheers.
Nice on man..I do a lot outdoor dining sets.
Here we have quit the climate and for me the best way to protect wood is 2 part polyurethane with poly primer 2-3 coats and last polyurethane finish with 30% hardner.
I apply it always with air gun.
Nice video keep up the good work
good luck
Slovenian Woodworker: Please provide brand/supplier info in these products. I have a chair design I want to execute, but want an outdoor finish my customers can trust.
Fantastic finish Marc! Would be good to get a follow-up/update of what it looks like a year later and if you would still use the same epoxy, etc. Thanks!
Doing exactly as you show on BIG oak tree cookies (45 to 50 inch diameter) my coworker had taken down. I am making tables using this finishing technique that is leaving me speechless. Its one thing seeing it on video/photo BUT to stand in presence of this finish once done with high gloss, which Im a fan of, is a whole different ballgame ! My neighbors are totally amazed and just like you outdoors is the only place I can work on these giants. .
That matte finish looks incredible. Great choice!
LOOKS GREAT, The weathering gave it really good character
That looks goddamn amazing! Well done, Marc.
What I like best about this, the child was inserted and you let him help. I see tons of parents tell their kids no, it's too hard or your too young, so the kids lose interest. Who knows, your son may end up growing up to be a contractor because he was inspired as a kid to learn how to handle wood. Good for you.
Superb efforts salvaging the beautiful rustic outdoor furniture
this was great timing Mark, I have some old cable reel tables to finish for outside use and I was wondering about a suitable finish for them. question answered!
I like the way you taped all around the end-grain, and let the wood absorb all it could.
I love how that came out.
Mark is a very talented guy and seems to be a great father too. I've been following the channel for years now with an encore two years ago cause I got sort of annoyed cause back then I was trying to learn woodworking and it felt too comercial. I mean, it felt like everything was sponsored and to be honest most of the stuff he uses is out of reality for most of the people. I also moved from a house to one apartment which limited my access to tools but then I started watching the videos again not as instructional videos but just for fun. For the entertainment and God, it's so much better. I can sit and watch and just apreciate it.
Very nice patio and great table
this is a great video man keep it up
another great video. it looks like a LOT of work but it also looks amazing in the end. so well worth it. Also wanted to mention how satisfying it was to see the air bubble out of the wood and through the epoxy at 1:48 :-))))
I love the matte look. I wonder if the table feels like plastic with that many coats of finish?
beautiful and functional piece. Kudos!
Marc, great stuff, as alwasy! Now that this new and improved finish is coming on two years old, how has it held up?
I vacillate between sealing up outdoor wood with a varnish and using an oil type finish .
Over the years i have used more and more oil type finishes that break down in the elements into a thin powdery substance .
These type of finishes are incredibly easy to recoat as they only need to be brushed off and re applied with a huge bristle brush that require zero skill.
Using a varnish with a lot of solids can involve a lot of preparation .
Both are excellent and it just comes down to personal preference .
You've got a new subscriber man... great work!
Nice work. I've been thinking about taking on a similar project. This video, and learning about the matte finish Epifane, will help. Thanks.
Hi Marc thank you for making this video. It was very informative and helpful as I'm planning on getting married this October and idea we're hoping to do is to have our guest sign a picnic table instead of a wedding book. Watching this video helped me understand in approaching a picnic table and things I should consider prior before presenting it to our guest. If you have any recommendations I would very much appreciate your input. I just subscribed to your channel and will be reviewing other videos for reference.
Hello, this video helps me out greatly as I am starting to learn. So thank you! One question I had was why the epoxy sealer was done prior to varnish or does that step not matter too much?
looks great, would love to see a year progress update on how the marine products are holding up
Great timing. I need to refinish a slab bench and I was looking into. marine finish. Thanks.
I sort of knew you were merely human, and even though this project proves it, I still have a vision of you in the back of my mind wearing a cape ;-)
I hear capes are coming back in fashion!
Thanks for sharing! Nice to see that even the pros don't get everything right :)
I’m not going to lie, throughout the video I was thinking, “Man this is a pain in the ass,” but the end product looks great
Ughhhhhhhhhh just watching this I was dreading replicating but the results speak for themselves. Very good and informative video. Table looks amazing
For the small outside stuff (armrests, small stools etc) I use Danish oil. I do have to add a light coat once or twice a year, but it's just a light sanding and wiping it on. I can do all the furniture in well under an hour and it dries within a day, so I just leave them all in place and do it on a day we don't use them.
Wow!! The finish is simply amazing!!!!!
Great video, thank you. I'm making small table out or wormy chestnut - interior only. Can suggest a good coating option that's clear but at the same time offers some protection?
Wow, that's gorgeous.
foam brushes are the way to go.
and yeah, epifanes is priced like liquid platinum.
looks better than ever before. awesome garden btw. you should make a tour.
You’re very talented. Great job. Really.
That is absolutely the most beautiful table I've ever seen! LIked and Sub'd, amazing job!
That high altitude sun is no joke. I lived outside of Denver for a number of years, quite a bit higher in elevation, and everything left outside weathered way way faster than expected. For outdoor tables and benches we just used a deck sealer every year in the spring. Every single year in the spring everything made of wood , outside, that we cared about would get a good coat of water based wood sealer. These things would grey and check but would not warp or rot at all. you have to have different expectations for outdoor wood furniture
This table is gorgeous! Good job.
That's such a beautiful finish!
I had no idea any of that was possible. wow what an awesome video!
I found that it was helpful to lightly scuff up the varnish undercoats before using the epiphanes...It is possible for bubbling up to occur if this is not done...This was also advised by the folks at the Epiphanes site...A really lovely way to do an outdoor finish...People really like it on the outdoor chairs I have put together...Not sure how long it will last?
All that fantastic work you put in to make this great video, and my take-away was I have the exact same scissors as yours!
I'd love to know how this table is looking after a year.
Great job... I wish I had the same amount of patience.
Wow what a great finish.
I bought and used the wrong stuff on mine. Was more of a waxy liquid. Now after two years it's all flaking off and he rain is warping the planks.
Gonna be a pain in the proverbial to remove, refinish the wood and then apply the proper stuff.
Love the matte look!
I'll have to see how much the stuff he used will cost me.
Table is 2m x 1.2m then there are 2 two seater benches and 2 single chairs all with backs and arm rests.
I'd like to see annual updates on this...
I have a reclaimed redwood table that I want to re-finish, but I actually love the rustic look of the big nail holes and cracks in it - I want them to be able to show through. Do I still need to do the first round of West Systems epoxy fill, or can I simply do the second Total Boat layer?
A couple of comments from someone who has maintained natural wood surfaces on boats: 1) even with the sealing, filling and 5-7 coats of spar varnish, if the table stays outside, it should be cleaned, sanded and recoated every one to three years with the Epiphaned, depending on conditions, if not, you will find it gradually descending to an unacceptable place again, but now with cracks partially filled with epoxy. 2) when applying a crack-filling coat of epoxy, you can save substantial material and substantial sanding time by applying with a flexible squeegee and a little pressure, the more leveling you want to do, the stiffer the squeegee.
Thanks for this video - very timely for me as I am planning on building some outdoor furniture over the next few months. Anything Marine = 10X the "normal" price.
That does look great! Its nice to see how you fill the voids and how bad it looks until you start sanding, because if I tried that I would have been freaking out before hitting the project with a sander! Question: You mention you originally finished with teak oil. If you had been diligent and re-applied teak oil yearly, do you think it would have held up? How much of a pain to re-finish will this be? A simple sand then a few more coats down the road (assuming it doesn't go too far past the lifespan of the finish)?
Well I can't say how well it would have held up but I think it would have been MUCH better off! What you see in this video is just pure neglect. So I'm guessing Teak Oil would have gone a long way in preventing all of those cracks and checks. As for future maintenance, I only anticipate having to give it a light sanding when the top layer starts to show wear, and then reapply a new thinned coat.
can we get an update on how this finish has held up and if the wood color changed at all? id love to know
How's that finish held up? Would you still recommend that combination?
Great Video Colorado is tough in outdoor furniture for sure.. I have to clean and polish all my outdoor wood furniture to keep up on the UV damage.
I agree MARC, The added contrast from the cured epoxy in the natural cracks looks amazing. Many people would have little idea that epoxy was utilized to fill the cracks. Ya may have begun a Cracked Craze, lol. Well done Marc.
And it only takes three years in the AZ sun to achieve. This is likely to catch on! ;)
How many cans of 1000mL of Epifanes did you use? I've got a cedar porch rail and columns that I'm going to apply the Epifanes to and just trying to gauge how much to buy.
Do you have plans for that table and bench. I really like the look! I love your videos even though I am really a beginner. It gives me something to strive for!
First time seeing one of your videos. Liked and subscribed after one video for the first time as well.
restoring antique chris crafts its nice to see a guy like you use epifane and cpes-or something like it. I have found cpes is the secret to many perfect finishes and glued joints. Bravo
Nice job. You've got waaaaay more patience than I do.
A lovely rustic result. ....well done.
Same finish as the cedar strip canoe I made. I thought after the fiber glass and epoxy I was done. NOPE It still needed a few coats of this same varnish. Cut it a little too close to vacation time and had to put the varnish on after we used it for 10 days. Seems to be none the worse???? I also made this table and bench set after watching your video last year and its actually our indoor dining set in the winter. Thanks Marc and Nicole
I have three cedar gates, with some pine framing, and a cedar plank facing on my facia. I have used Penofin once a year for the past eight years and the wood looks like I just built and/or installed them.
that turned out awesome! What are your thoughts on using a product like Thompson's Water Seal for a table like that?
Fantastic video as always.
Very helpful info!
How about a follow up on that finish now?
Wow. This looks amazing! I wonder if this finish would work well in a small wooden deck so I don’t have to restrain it every year.
Looks sick. Seems like you have a great backyard/patio.
Learned a lot from your video! Project looks great!
Beautiful finish. Very nice work. Quick question for you: Do you think this would be food-safe for a surface where meals are prepared?