I've shot a lot of Winchester white box 115 fmj 9 mm . Last time 2 rounds hit the ground 20 feet in front of me. The round after split the case and blew the primer out. I trust my reloads far more than any factory rounds. Years ago I don't remember hearing about all these problems so often. Good video. I thought I was buying all the garbage. And people make fun of thunder bolt.
I agree with you,it ain't safe to put to much trust in any ammo that you don't load yourself .I tried some of that steel case Toula ammo ,it was 223 Remington 55 grain FMJ ,after 3 rounds through my old savage model 24 ,I stopped useing it .I walked back home with a stuck case in my gun,which I removed with a cleaning rod ,I had fired the rifle barrel 3 times at a wild turkey and none of the rounds hit any place near a turkey .the rifle is dead on with my hand loads and I have never experienced a stuck case from any hand load or any factory load .I have fired federal bulk box 55 gr FMJ and winchester white box 45 gr.jacketed hp in it no problems.a co worker begged me ,to sell her all my unfired steel case ammo ,I explained to her that I thought it was dangerous ,but she wanted it anyhow.I know lots of folks like steel cased Russian ammo ,but I wouldn't trust it in a outhouse ,with a muzzel on it.
I shot a couple "red rattler" boxes this past weekend and had no noticable issues. I used a Rossi R22 rifle and a GSG 1911 as well as two different 22 revolvers. I did have a bulk 800 rd box of Federal that was horrible, so much so I filled out the message box at the federal website and they reached out to give me a return. I got a full refund with my receipt and they sent me a check after I returned the box in a prepaid UPS label which they even scheduled the UPS to pick it up to return to them.
When I first started shooting at the first summer of the pandemic I never had a problem with federal bulk auto match, but my last two or three boxes have been awful with failure to fires and extract.
@Nate W nate...i will agree that the defense stuff isnt the worst ammo....even better than some....but not a company i choose to support....check out there record for yourselves
I stopped buying SuperX back in the 90's. I picked up a box of the 555's and a box of the 333's during the pandemic. The 555's were so bad I left the rest of the box out at the range because it produced wild velocities and splitting cases. I later braved the 333's and they had inconsistent velocities but there were no split cases. After finishing up the box of 333's I swore off all 22 ammo that is made by Winchester. They are by far the worst of the worst 22Lr ammo.
A couple years ago my dad died. Nothing tragic, went at 81 with a clear mind and a body weakened by 8 decades of hard living. We can only be so lucky. Anyway, going through his stuff I found a box of these that was at least 40 years old. But the box was yellow, not sure if through a change at the factory or time. They were consistently good rounds, and accurate, green patina and all. I have shot new ones since too. Heads always loose, and the box sprinkled with spilled powder. What happened, Winchester? PS.- the white box bulk is way worse. The bottoms of the boxes almost always have spare parts- empty cases, loosed bullets, powder everywhere.
@@ToolsandTargets Their quality control was pushed beyond its limits with this high demand market.They do not want to tear down the hardware to look for problems when it will lower output.
Yeah back when I was a kid in the ‘80s we shot a lot of these when they were in a yellow box and they were decent then. We’d take them rabbit hunting and liked them because they were easy to load out of the box and then close it back up. Federals were the worst back then in my experience and had more duds than all other loads we shot put together. Not the case anymore though. Nowadays I prefer Federal over other brands in most calibers.
The worst 22 I've ever come across has been the bulk Winchester White Box CPHP's in the 333s & 555s boxes. Not only are they crazy inconsistent but they won't feed properly in any semi autos. They're alright in revolvers & single shots obviously but I can't get through a single magazine in any semi with them things (rifle or pistol). Most folks I talk to have had similar problems with those things for years. These Super Xs in the red box 100cts have given me the same kinda probs as well but the RNs will feed a little better. Something awful fishy about Winchester 22s... 🤔
I haven't purchased the 333's in a long time, because last time I got them they were so weak they wouldn't cycle 90% of the time. Got 2 really bad batches in a row (months apart from each other), so I just never bought them again. I've had bad luck here and there with the thunderbolts... but have never had any problems even remotely as bad as the Winchester white box. I don't think I ever tried the Super X red box though.
@@megatrends Just because you have had good luck with it doesn't mean someone else didn't. I shoot core lockt 130 grns in an old 700 270 . And I've got friends that hate them. I guess it varies from lot to lot numbers. Hopefully you continue to have good luck.
@@rkow8508 I didn't say they didn't have a bad batch, I disagreed with a blanket statement that Winchester white box bulk was garbage because if you read replies here some, including myself, have had great success with it. It's the blanket statement I dont like as with all blanket statements they are usually wrong in saying it. You just echoed my sentiment by your statement about the ammo you like and others dont. It's wrong for them to say that ammo sucks isn't it? You just said the same thiung I did about winchester white box bulk .... no?
As a retired instructor, regretfully I can tell you through many years and many rounds fired, Winchester is at the VERY bottom of my purchase list across the board in ALL of its ammunition production. Something is seriously wrong over there.
I used to love Winchester white box but lately I’ve been experiencing exactly what your saying. Poor quality in everything they make. The only Winchester ammo I’ve been having any luck with being decent is over run from lake city. M855, m193, and m1152
I've never had any problems with the Winchester extreme point and power point 308 ammo in my S&W AR10. Runs consistently on power (I don't have a Cronos), rounds don't wander, and no cycling issues during the 8 yrs that I have been using them. That is the only Winchester ammo I use, so I can't tell you about any of the other calibers I have. Thank you for commenting on this. I will pay more attention to the Winchester ammo in the future.
I had a long run of using WWB in the 2000s until about 2014 for almost everything, and I always thought they were great back then. But my experience with it the last few years has been terrible-except for some 9mm NATO overrun which worked flawlessly. There doesn’t appear to be any quality control whatsoever anymore.
Sounds and looks like those could be really dangerous. I mean if some people don't pay attention and get a squib load and and fire the second round and it gets a high round it can really cause injuries to a lot of people. Winchester better start looking into to these. Like I told you my .300 wm . Just had one do it to me. And out of the same box 4 more you could pull the projectile out of the brass with ease. And hardly any powder in the brass.
@@ToolsandTargets They will not know about it if consumers and testers say nothing to their faces. If you notify them and someone gets hurt, they may easily be sued. Bad ammo almost killed one of us. We need to "Put a thumb in it."
Thanks for the information. With ammo prices being so high it's great to have these results to help make the right purchases. I really do appreciate it.
Had a brick of Remington "Golden" .22 long rifle ammo that was total junk. About a 10 % failure to fire rate. I pulled the bullets on the duds, and found that there was absolutely no primer compound in the duds. The primer compound is a green colored substance that is inside the rim of the .22 case. Remington quality control was nonexistent on these cartridges. Pitiful.
Interesting and very informative. I've shot quite few winchester loads and the super x rounds are the only ones I've had issues with. Although, now I'm curious to see how other winchester loads perform.
In March of this year, my wife took her SR22 to a pistol class, shooting the Winchester Super X. The ammo was very inconsistent with several under and over charged rounds. One hot round expanded the casing to the point it had to be hammered out of the chamber. These failures ruined the training session for her and correcting the malfunctions slowed the class for all of the participants.
What's even worse in my opinion is these rounds aren't considered "bulk pack" ,they're one hundred round packs which is the same as cci (my go to) for sure.
I thought for sure you had a squib in your barrel with that one shot. Those are so inconsistent overall, I wouldn’t trust them except on tin cans! Thanks Tools🤠
Glad to see you checked the barrel for an obstruction on that really weak load. Scarry stuff, espically with revolvers, it's so easy just to crank another round off. i generally shoot Federal 525 packs that I bought a bunch of in 2012. I've never noticed any week ones.
Recently (since the scamdemic) I've had issues with the white box 333's. I just stick to the federal bulk 22. Another great video, really enjoy the standard deviation along with everything else
Now before I even watch this I want to say, I don’t care how bad these do, they will always have a place in everyone’s childhood shooting memories ❤️ thanks for the classics tools
@@DisgustedGenXr hell I’m only 20 yrs old, but I’m sure they gave the same memories❤️ and I hope they are bad rounds teach the children to clear a jam or two Lol
Haven’t tried any of the newer Winchester bulk packs or any red rattlers. Finished my last Winchester 555 bulk up a few weeks ago. It was from 5 plus years ago and my 22/45 ruger shot them great . Thanks for the video.
Another great test! Talk about inconsistent. I have a pellet gun that runs higher velocities than those. I have a few boxes of those, I’m kind of glad I didn’t stock up on a bunch. Keep the great videos coming
Damn shame seeing how poorly Winchester ammo seems to have come, I just got my hands on my great grandfathers model 74 chambered in 22lr and its an awesome old gun, still shoots great. They made some amazing guns back in the day! Thanks for the video, subbed! 🔫
These are more expensive than mini mags at Walmart. I was always taught to stay away from them. I don't even like Winchester ammo to begin with. Thanks for showing us!!
Don’t believe I’ve ever seen an es that big. I can understand some inconsistencies in cheep bulk ammo but not that large. To bad the chrono didn’t pick up the real weak round. Thanks for the video!
After watching this splendid video; I decided to drag out some of my old stash Winchester 22lrs from the 80s to see if it is only the current ammo or past tense also. We set up the chronograph at the range and fired away from multiple Taurus 22Tx pistols and the Taurus TX Competition models. Averages were about 115-150 fps faster in the longer barrel competition model, but still Huge in fps variations. 5 shot groups were as low as 835 up to 1035. SO---this means; Winchester 22lr red box has Sucked since way back when! Now wonder it was super cheap! You get what you pay for. The Federal HPs and Spitfires were within 45 fps in 5 shot groups.
Thanks, good test. I'll avoid the red rattlers. I've had sketchy results with most bulk .22 stuff, though I think the Federal was a bit better. Remington can be good but when they are bad, it's the whole box that's goofy. It seems to be CCI that rules for consistency.
This is exactly the very reason for why I quit buying and using pretty much all Winchester ammo except shotgun ammo and I definitely no matter under any circumstances buy or will use any Winchester 22 ammo I've had nothing but the worst performance and reliability from them no matter if it's bulk or a small box of specialty ammo from them I've had issues with them all and refuse to buy that garbage and I honestly tend to stick to Federal and Hornady for pretty much all my 22 and center-fire needs they're good priced and reliable and accurate and also CCI for 22 as well are hard to beat. I gave up on Winchester yrs ago this is no new problem with them in my longtime plinking and competition shooting experience they get 2 big thumbs down for me.
Thanks for the video. I knew that something was wrong with the Winchester ammo, but I thought it was the speed (1300 fps) that my rifle didn't like. I quit buying it because the accuracy was so bad in my 10/22, which is a tack driver with most other brands, including Remington Thunderbolt bulk.
I've always had great luck with the Remington Thunderbolts. I've got several bricks of it stashed away. I bought it back when the prices were not crazy.
I snagged 6 boxes of this stuff for cheap as it was the only 22lr I could find for less than $10 at the time. They were very inconsistent. I only shoot them out of a revolver or level action. Truth be told I'd still buy some if I could find it cheap enough lol
Great Vid buddy. I have a case of the 333 Winchester I got 4-5 years ago for $118 and I wonder if the stories about this ammo being bad. Since this is old stock ammo I wonder if it's just the newer white box that is bad. I have shot the 333 box along time ago and had no issues so that is why I wonder if it is just this new stuff out.
Another good video. I just watched the thunderbolt bulk ammo one you posted awhile back. Looked really good bulk ammo. I just converted my Glock 19 9mm to accept 22lr. I might grab a thousand rounds of that thunderbolt. I Do appreciate the info videos. 👍👍
@@megatrends That's really good to know. Out here in California. The 500 round box of thunderbolt goes for $40. I've been blowing through a lot of 9mm ammo at the range so I figured the conversion kit for 22 LR will save a good amount of money for the time being. 👍
@@ToolsandTargets that's good to know. Like you said in the video. Not the best round for a defense round. But for target shooting. It's quality for the price. Looking forward to the Ammo haul video this coming week! 👌
W😢W, what a load of crap those Winchester RR's have turned out to be. Thanks for thanking the time to go back and give them another chance. Way to inconsistant for me, 400 some feet difference in terrible. Then add in that super weak round. I'll stay away from these things. Keep the faith and thanks again my friend.
Ah ,weak load could be dangerous. I'm not a fan , too inconsistent. Glad that gust didn't kill any equipment. The weakest round sounded like my old .22 Crossman pellet rifle. I've never seen this ammo. Thanks Tools
I used to use the Federal Lightning 500 round ammo in the old blue boxes back in the 80's, and in my Marlin 60 it always ran excellent. It was also a great bargin at $5.99/box. Those days are gone. I got great accuracy with the micro grooves in the Marlin. It seemed to just excel with that ammo. I had used a few boxes of the Super X in it too, but never noticed any bad rounds, though it wasn't as accurate as the Lightnings were. It's pretty sad that their quality control has slipped this bad. Hopefully they take corrective action in this.
Before the shortage hit wal mart had them 1000 rounds for $35-$40, my m&p 22 liked them. The wax coating on them is kind of annoying but, they ran good and priced well enough to run a lot of rounds every weekend.
@Tools&Targets keep these greatb tests coming. With the price of ammo I've been shooting a lot of 22 so it's great to see what's worth buying. Thanks again.
@@leegreene3059 I've got a 1000 round box of these rounds. Got them at Walmart for $35 I believe. I've only fired a very few of them. I was testing a Taurus P22 I picked up real cheap from a friend. The Winchester ammo wouldn't work in the small Taurus. Jammed up on every shot with it. But that seemed to be the norm with that Taurus with most of the ammo I tried in it
Great reaction time saving the equipment with a firearm in your hand. That low one was very scary and good job catching a potential disaster. I need to check my inventory to see if I have any of these and put them to the side/away. Are these cheaper than other non CCI bulk packs?
I seem to have more issues with the federal auto match than with the Winchester. Interesting to see how much inconsistency is in those though. Great information
Is this batch something you have bought lately? I have some that I’ve had for quite sometime and have never had that problem. Just curious with all of the demand on ammo these days i have noticed poorer quality in several other components lately. Thanks for another good video review.
I bought my two boxes about a month ago because I hadn’t seen them since they were about $8 a box at Walmart and I paid I think $13 and some change I was just getting them because I didn’t have any of those particular ones and was going to save them but now I’m kinda curious to see if they are any better I don’t have a chrono but I can listen and watch for inferior discharges
I’m sorry but I was laughing my ass off when you went falling over with the chronograph. I have been there way to many times, ammo falling, chronograph falling, seems like I always take the chronograph out in the crappiest weather
Good on you for stopping when you felt/heard/saw an anomaly. I always stress to anyone who I shoot with that if you knock off 5 rounds and the 6th sounds of feels funny STOP shooting! I have been on the wrong end of a squib load and it was painful. Blew the rifle apart and the barrel looked like a tree branch. The force drove the magazine out of the bottom and into the ground. And I knew it was coming, no recoil and the noise level dropped in half. My first thought was "huh...that was odd. Wonder what that meant?..." and never stopped to check.
No matter the manufacture all 22 rf ammo is mass produced, by automatic machines. I was frustrated with the "fliers". What I found by weighing 100 rds of F A M , was a 1.1 grain difference from lightest to heavy. The light loads will hit low and to the right, the heavy ones would high and to the left. The rounds that were in the middle, the ones that weighed exactly the same. At 50 yards, from the bench, 5 shot one hole groups, the size of a thumb nail. A way to get "Target" ammo out of inexpensive bulk 22rf ammo.
I’ve tried a newer batch of these in a Savage 64f and a Heritage Rough Rider. Worked fine to be honest. Lately I’ve only had problems with ANYTHING Remington (subsonic, golden bullet, game loads). I’ll have one that sounds like a squib or ftf in pretty much every magazine/cylinder.
The red rattlers should be called the red stragglers. Your famous last words was Hilarious, i was super scared you were gonna lose your trademark hat lol. it almost seems to me you had to sensor yourself naming the jelly time so i will come up with one for ya, you can call it the "Weakly Freakly" jelly time. great testing there tools, love the hard work you put into these videos and risking yourself and your hat for us lol.
About 7 years ago I bought some "Browning" .22 lr that was made by Winchester. It would not chamber in any of my semi autos and with the camming power of a few of my bolt guns they would go into battery with a lot of difficulty. The culprit was the bullets were just too large in diameter. No match chambers, just everyday run of the mill semi autos.
I truthfully don't think of that as typical bulk ammo. when I think of bulk it is generally boxes of 250 or above of loose packed ammo. Winchester taking the time and effort to pack these in a plastic case with the rounds separated with an insert would make most think they are getting above bulk performance not below. my Ruger SR22 is ammo picky so I never buy bulk 22 ammo and if I got a box of those my SR22 would turn into a signal shot for sure.
I personally dont like the rattlers I use them at the range when they run out Im done with themThe Sportsmans Warehouse today has Aquila's high velocity hollow points for $4.99 a box of 50 no limit whatsoever I bought plenty Be Safe and God Bless 🙏🙏
🇦🇺😎👍Hey big fella it’s a public holiday down here today so Tools is here once again to the rescue.....RRs Junk , lol ! Those Red rattlers down here are $299 / 2000. One lot 37 grain and the other lot 40 grain and they claim 1330 & 1435 fps which is nothing like your results. They must be using 24” barrels to get them results .....nah I don’t think so 🤔. I can’t stand the weak ones....too much variation mate......😮Jelly time ! Cheap junk that costs too much 😐.... The true results of the test is Tools and Targets saves us all a lot of $$s.....thankyou fine Sir✌
I get a lot of split cases with the Winchester 17 HMR ammo 17 and 20 gr. It doesn't happen with Hornady, CCI, or Federal ammunition but two or three out of 50 will split the neck of the case with Winchester rounds.
TOOL..!! I STOVE PIPE MY 10-22 WITH THE WHITE BOX 222 , I HAVE A MACHINIST THAT DRILLED OUT THE LEAD...!!!!! I TRY TO STICK TO FEDERAL BULK AND REMINGTON ..!!!! THANK YOU AGAIN FOR A GREAT VIDEO ..!! I GOT TO GO TO THE RANGE TODAY ,, GREAT TIME ..!! 22, 40, 45 ...!!!! DOUBLE G. HERE..!!!
I had a Winchester White box 22LR split its case in my clean [less than 50 rounds since a thorough cleaning] and fairly new [less than 300 rounds through it] Beretta M9 22LR. 15% failure rate too.
Thanks Tools, I think I have a sleeve of these, but not sure. I know it is Winchester, but it may be some subsonic rounds. I know that I have had some issues with the bulk 333 boxes before so if you check consistency on them you may find the same. I think my biggest issue was failure to fire with the bulk Winchester .22LR. Thanks again.
Well now this was a interesting video and I think I will avoid buying any of those bulk red Rattlers. I do shoot a lot of bulk 22 ammo of various types just because they are cheaper and I have had my share of defective ones Plus I even had a squib load once.
I imagine I'd get some canned corporate response and an offer for a replacement box of ammo. Not worth my time. If they actually cared, this ammo wouldn't have left the factory.
I just found this video and found it very interesting. As an old shotgun shooter I always preferred Winchester shotgun shells over the Federal and Remington brand. I had quite a bit of experience with Federal 9mm and .45 pistol ammunition and was not overly impressed. I occasionally plinked with a .22. I had purchased all the .22 ammunition I could find when there was a consumer shortage several years ago. When did the Winchester ammo quality go south? I was coerced into some rimfire competition starting last year so I decided to use the least expensive .22 ammunition I had purchased several years prior, Remington Thunderbolt. I used the Remington ammunition in a Browning Buckmark and a Ruger 10/22. While the ammunition was very "dirty" and had considerable lead build up, it never failed to fire or eject. I was not going to use my "good" ammunition for this competition. That "good" ammunition was all the Winchester .22's. I have the bulk white boxes in the 333's and the 555's along with the black boxes. In addition, I have the Remington Golden's and some CCI's in both the Mini-mag and Stingers. Since the competition involves speed as well as accuracy, and after this video, I am wondering about the Winchester ammunition failure creating a dangerous situation on the range. And to me, the vast FPS variation is a failure.
I've noticed several differences in ammo perception vs firearm. Some ammo don't like some guns, I don't fully understand if its a tolerance issue, or if its a brand issue. Example is a marlin 60, vs a ar 22 conversion. The red box will run all day fine in my ar, but I can't get 5 rounds out of my marlin. I've done this comparison with 14 different 22 brands now, and it seems to me to be picky ammo vs picky guns. Idk maybe its not a real test because I didn't use metrics other then fail to fire but hey, its my experience, take it with a grain of salt.
I never cared much for winchester ammo in their rimfire brand or shotgun ammo ,I always went for federal or remington ammo .the automatch is a very good round ,that my ruger Mark III Hunter loves.I have a few box's or them red rattlers,but I havnt shot any of them yet .ill be keeping a close eye on them when I do use them now,after seeing them weak loads .thanks for all you do,and stay safe.
I tried Winchester SuperX’s in my GSG firefly and Savage 64... both of them had issues with it. I stick to CCI mini mags, CCI Blazer and Federal auto match; those seem reliable for me.
I stopped buying Winchester.22 ammo around 1997/8. It used to be worse. I’m done with Winchester.22 ammo. Aguilla, Golden Bullets & Federal AutoMatch work just fine for me & mine. Good tests
I shoot a minimum of 400 rounds of 22LR every week out of various 22 LR Platforms. I have had so many issues with Winchester 22LR that I would not buy them if they were free. I have had similar issues with the 800 round bulk boxes of Federal and I steer away from Federal in general with the exception of the 325 round boxes of Federal Auto Match. They seem to perform well. I should note here that I shoot seven different 22LR weapons.
Recently found out that Winchester ammo is way out of specs in regards to case size, and much of it won't chamber well in a Ruger revolver that easily loads every other brand. The rounds stop before they will drop into the chamber, so it seems that the cases on the Winchester are too large or are oval in cross-section. Other brands tried were Remington (Yellowjackets), CCI Standard Velocity, Aguila Super Extra, Armscor HPs, and some Sellier and Bellot solids from Czech Republic.
From what I seen of the Red Rattler's performance in the video I would not use it for any shooting applications I have. With a high of 1085 fps and a low of 612 fps along with dozens of rounds fired with readings in between the spread is too erratic and inconsistent for my liking. However, there were some good velocities recorded for a .22 LR, (high 900's to mid 1000's), but this particular box of ammo was like that proverbial "box of chocolates", you never knew what you were going to get! 😵💫So I'm out...I figured you'd be doing this test pretty quick after the problems you had with this ammo in the "Punch Video". Enjoyed the video! Take care and stay safe my friend! 😉
Took my Saiga 12's out for a feeding. Had a bulk pack of Winchester bulk target loads (3 dram), a box of Federal pink pussycat target loads (2 3/4 dram), and Federal bulk pack target loads (3 dram). The Federal hulls landed 6' away, the pink pussycats about 5, and the Whinchester at my feet with a lot of stovepipes. I got to shoot 4 bricks of military standard velocity back in the 80's. The ammo was made by Olin/Winchester. Shooting a 10/22 with 30rnd Bingham mags, I had the weapon gunk up to the point that the firing pin froze in the forward position. RUN AWAY FULL AUTO TIME! The mag well was completely filled with unburnt powder by the time we were done. Also had a Super X blow out the chamber at the extractor in my High Standard pistol. Not fond of Winchester ammo. Too bad they have the current military contract for Lake City AAP.
Winchester used to make the super x 50 round box they were great shooting 22 LR bullets now I mostly buy the cci mini mags and federal auto match they seem to work a lot more consistent in my 10-22 and my Ruger mark three pistol.
This is exactly why I have used only CCI for 40 years when it comes to .22LR. I have had problems with every other brand. Only a handful of weak rounds over the years and 1 fail to fire from CCI. I lost count on the other brands.
The only ammo I have problems with is Winchester. Used to get it when Walmart sold real ammo. For me the white box centrrfire handgun ammo since 2012 has had offset primers, split brass out of the box, inconsistent groups...the red box 22lr has had HOT loads in the past. Now you are showing low powder. Gesh... Try the Aguila 22lr 40gr. Great stuff so far. It has become my favorite...even over CCI
Cci mini mags, or standard velocity. No issues. I tried some browning ammo high velocity hollow points. Shot well and very hot. You can feel them. They almost recoil.
My brother worked at Olin till he retired last year. He said do NOT buy,22 ammo after the move to Mississippi because None of the people was properly trained on the machines or the loading of all the ammo including .22 ammo. All of my .22 ammo i have is the Alton Illinois made ammo.
I hear a lot of complaints on this series of ammo from Winchester. My question would be, are the materials now inferior, machinery obsolete/not maintained, or workers inept. They had a successful product before - what changed.
Back in the 80s my primary was CCI Mini Mag. My secondary was Winchester Super X. They were almost equal to me then. My third string plinking load was Federal lightning. it was cheap and dirty. I rarely shot anything else. Thunderbolt and Remington Golden bullet was way down the list unless K-Mart had a real sale.
Just used it for the first time yesterday.. compared it with cci. Grouping was terrible. CCI I was getting dime size groups at 50 yards. Winchester was all flyers.
Not very consistent ammo, that one sounded like a bb gun shot. I Would only buy these if they were a lot cheaper than anything else and I just wanted to do some plinking. Appreciate the test 👍👍
That's enough info to keep me from spending my money on these. JUNK!!! I'll stick with the CCI 's. At least they seem to be consistent. Quick question, have you tested the Winchester Silver Tip in 380 yet?
I've tried Winchester .22lr white box in handguns and rifles. Terrible. Also used their 9mm which performed fine. I've tried Federal automatch and have been pleasantly surprised. Very good for bulk.
The 22 wmr version of that round is awesome but those boxes vary from case to case in reliability and accuracy but these and browning have been the most common rounds I've found the last year.
As I reload 99 percent of my ammunition I rarely buy center fire but mostly buy shotgun and 22 ammo. I have several brands of 22 in including Winchester wildcat and no problems , I bought two boxes of Winchester white box 44 mag two years ago at Walmart to have brass to reload the 44 mag with.about every round flattened the primers. powder burning rate to fast.my 240 gr xtp has some light flattening at at least 250 fps faster same weight bullet and shoots good as this old fart can do it.31/2-4 inch groups off hand at 20 yards .not bad for a compact 5 shot 44 mag and a 3 in barrel. my reloaded 180 xtp 1265 and 1350 fps average 2-3 inch 20 yards.this is my carry defense/ hunting load. a few Winchester 12 gauge mag turkey loads failed to fire. I think it tried the shells in the shotguns and wouldn't fire .I put no trust in them and I won't tolerate it. the federal turkey loads no problems except beating the spit out of me. I love your tests there fare and honest I sing your praises. papa wishing you well
I bought a bunch of Winchester 222, 333, 555, and Super X .22lr in the red boxes like these,, but they are older lots from 2018, 2019. I haven't had any problems with them, however, the recently produced Anniversary 300 rd boxes of Winchester were all over the place in power, and some of the primers were duds... I wonder what's up with Winchester, I won't but anymore of their. 22lr ammo until quality comes back... Glad I bought a bunch way back when...
@@ToolsandTargets They are overpriced junk ammo in a pretty box. Two of my friends bought that ammo, all of us from different locations, and we all got the same results. Try it... You'll probably not like it, but it would make for another test video... Have fun!!
My local gun store sold me about 4 boxes of those a year ago. I've not shot them yet because I've been shooting the Norma. Norma shoots well through my Walther P22. I'll probably shoot up those Winchester Super X now that I know they're not that great. The 1300 FPS on the box is false advertising.
I bought some .22lr years ago that wouldn't even go all the way through an empty milk jug. They were thunderbolts, I don't recall who made them as it was back in the 1970's
My dad used to always buy winchester so i shot a lot of it growing up. For a long time as an adult i bought it but no more. I started having a lot of failures to fire in the 50 round gray boxes in long rifles as well as magnums not to mention the stove pipes in semi autos. They load 4-5 kinds that are put into the red plastic boxes so it pays to read them closely. I always liked the expansion of the power points but now i usually only buy cci/Federal or Aguila. It's a shame their quality control has gotten so bad. I haven't been brave enough to try Remington yet but i'm curious if they have gotten better after Vista bought them and is loading now. I would think it has had to get better. I have used a good bit of their centerfires for years but never did like their rimfires.
I've shot a lot of Winchester white box 115 fmj 9 mm . Last time 2 rounds hit the ground 20 feet in front of me. The round after split the case and blew the primer out. I trust my reloads far more than any factory rounds. Years ago I don't remember hearing about all these problems so often. Good video. I thought I was buying all the garbage. And people make fun of thunder bolt.
Wow.😣
I agree with you,it ain't safe to put to much trust in any ammo that you don't load yourself .I tried some of that steel case Toula ammo ,it was 223 Remington 55 grain FMJ ,after 3 rounds through my old savage model 24 ,I stopped useing it .I walked back home with a stuck case in my gun,which I removed with a cleaning rod ,I had fired the rifle barrel 3 times at a wild turkey and none of the rounds hit any place near a turkey .the rifle is dead on with my hand loads and I have never experienced a stuck case from any hand load or any factory load .I have fired federal bulk box 55 gr FMJ and winchester white box 45 gr.jacketed hp in it no problems.a co worker begged me ,to sell her all my unfired steel case ammo ,I explained to her that I thought it was dangerous ,but she wanted it anyhow.I know lots of folks like steel cased Russian ammo ,but I wouldn't trust it in a outhouse ,with a muzzel on it.
This test proves that WW 22's quality has taken a huge nosedive in recent years. Thanks T&T for your detailed test/report.
Appreciate ya, brother!
I shot a couple "red rattler" boxes this past weekend and had no noticable issues. I used a Rossi R22 rifle and a GSG 1911 as well as two different 22 revolvers. I did have a bulk 800 rd box of Federal that was horrible, so much so I filled out the message box at the federal website and they reached out to give me a return. I got a full refund with my receipt and they sent me a check after I returned the box in a prepaid UPS label which they even scheduled the UPS to pick it up to return to them.
😎👍
Federal replaced my 800 bulk pack with 3 boxes of Auto Match, delivered to my house at no charge. They know those rounds suck.
Federal makes horrible ammo
When I first started shooting at the first summer of the pandemic I never had a problem with federal bulk auto match, but my last two or three boxes have been awful with failure to fires and extract.
@Nate W nate...i will agree that the defense stuff isnt the worst ammo....even better than some....but not a company i choose to support....check out there record for yourselves
I stopped buying SuperX back in the 90's. I picked up a box of the 555's and a box of the 333's during the pandemic. The 555's were so bad I left the rest of the box out at the range because it produced wild velocities and splitting cases. I later braved the 333's and they had inconsistent velocities but there were no split cases. After finishing up the box of 333's I swore off all 22 ammo that is made by Winchester. They are by far the worst of the worst 22Lr ammo.
Have to agree. 333's have been a very mixed bag for me too.
A couple years ago my dad died. Nothing tragic, went at 81 with a clear mind and a body weakened by 8 decades of hard living. We can only be so lucky. Anyway, going through his stuff I found a box of these that was at least 40 years old. But the box was yellow, not sure if through a change at the factory or time. They were consistently good rounds, and accurate, green patina and all. I have shot new ones since too. Heads always loose, and the box sprinkled with spilled powder. What happened, Winchester?
PS.- the white box bulk is way worse. The bottoms of the boxes almost always have spare parts- empty cases, loosed bullets, powder everywhere.
Yeah, it's a real shame how quality has gone down with so many companies.😣
@@ToolsandTargets Their quality control was pushed beyond its limits with this high demand market.They do not want to tear down the hardware to look for problems when it will lower output.
Yeah back when I was a kid in the ‘80s we shot a lot of these when they were in a yellow box and they were decent then. We’d take them rabbit hunting and liked them because they were easy to load out of the box and then close it back up. Federals were the worst back then in my experience and had more duds than all other loads we shot put together. Not the case anymore though. Nowadays I prefer Federal over other brands in most calibers.
@@bryangrote8781 Federal has been good for me as well.
The worst 22 I've ever come across has been the bulk Winchester White Box CPHP's in the 333s & 555s boxes. Not only are they crazy inconsistent but they won't feed properly in any semi autos. They're alright in revolvers & single shots obviously but I can't get through a single magazine in any semi with them things (rifle or pistol). Most folks I talk to have had similar problems with those things for years.
These Super Xs in the red box 100cts have given me the same kinda probs as well but the RNs will feed a little better. Something awful fishy about Winchester 22s... 🤔
I have had a lot of duds with the white box stuff too. Definitely gonna put those through this test soon.
I'll disagree heavily with that .... not sure why you had issues but I shoot them often in handguns and rifles. Haven't had issues.
I haven't purchased the 333's in a long time, because last time I got them they were so weak they wouldn't cycle 90% of the time. Got 2 really bad batches in a row (months apart from each other), so I just never bought them again. I've had bad luck here and there with the thunderbolts... but have never had any problems even remotely as bad as the Winchester white box. I don't think I ever tried the Super X red box though.
@@megatrends Just because you have had good luck with it doesn't mean someone else didn't. I shoot core lockt 130 grns in an old 700 270 . And I've got friends that hate them. I guess it varies from lot to lot numbers. Hopefully you continue to have good luck.
@@rkow8508 I didn't say they didn't have a bad batch, I disagreed with a blanket statement that Winchester white box bulk was garbage because if you read replies here some, including myself, have had great success with it. It's the blanket statement I dont like as with all blanket statements they are usually wrong in saying it. You just echoed my sentiment by your statement about the ammo you like and others dont. It's wrong for them to say that ammo sucks isn't it? You just said the same thiung I did about winchester white box bulk .... no?
As a retired instructor, regretfully I can tell you through many years and many rounds fired, Winchester is at the VERY bottom of my purchase list across the board in ALL of its ammunition production.
Something is seriously wrong over there.
That is sad to hear. Seems like it's more about quantity and profit, then quality.
I used to love Winchester white box but lately I’ve been experiencing exactly what your saying. Poor quality in everything they make. The only Winchester ammo I’ve been having any luck with being decent is over run from lake city. M855, m193, and m1152
I've never had any problems with the Winchester extreme point and power point 308 ammo in my S&W AR10. Runs consistently on power (I don't have a Cronos), rounds don't wander, and no cycling issues during the 8 yrs that I have been using them. That is the only Winchester ammo I use, so I can't tell you about any of the other calibers I have. Thank you for commenting on this. I will pay more attention to the Winchester ammo in the future.
I had a long run of using WWB in the 2000s until about 2014 for almost everything, and I always thought they were great back then. But my experience with it the last few years has been terrible-except for some 9mm NATO overrun which worked flawlessly. There doesn’t appear to be any quality control whatsoever anymore.
Especially if it comes in a WHITE BOX.
I really appreciate these performance/reliability reviews. Guess I won't be spending my money on Winchester Red Rattlers.....
I sure wont be anymore.
@@ToolsandTargets I have 400 rounds in four boxes of
Winchester Super-X .22LR 40GR Plated Round Nose 100rds X22LRSS1
UPC 020892102002 MPN X22LRSS1
I've got a few dozen packs I might just take to the range and blow off to get rid of.
I have a box that I picked up quite a few years back. I am hoping because I bought them long ago that they will be ok.
Sounds and looks like those could be really dangerous. I mean if some people don't pay attention and get a squib load and and fire the second round and it gets a high round it can really cause injuries to a lot of people. Winchester better start looking into to these. Like I told you my .300 wm . Just had one do it to me. And out of the same box 4 more you could pull the projectile out of the brass with ease. And hardly any powder in the brass.
Yeah, definitely could be a dangerous situation it someone was fast firing through a rifle especially and didn't stop in time to catch a squib round.
@@ToolsandTargets They will not know about it if consumers and testers say nothing to their faces. If you notify them and someone gets hurt, they may easily be sued. Bad ammo almost killed one of us. We need to "Put a thumb in it."
That wasn't wind that knocked everything over. It was the spirit of Federal Punch warning ⚠️ you to stay away from the Rattlers 🤣🤪 Good video Tools
I can't believe nobody else commented on that disaster yet. I was cussin up a storm.😂😂😂
🤣😂🤣😂
Thanks for the information. With ammo prices being so high it's great to have these results to help make the right purchases. I really do appreciate it.
Appreciate that my friend! I'll definitely pass on these next time.
Had a brick of Remington "Golden" .22 long rifle ammo that was total junk. About a 10 % failure to fire rate. I pulled the bullets on the duds, and found that there was absolutely no primer compound in the duds. The primer compound is a green colored substance that is inside the rim of the .22 case.
Remington quality control was nonexistent on these cartridges. Pitiful.
Seems like too many companies have fallen downhill with their quality.
Interesting and very informative. I've shot quite few winchester loads and the super x rounds are the only ones I've had issues with. Although, now I'm curious to see how other winchester loads perform.
Thank you sir. I definitely plan to do this with the white box rounds.👍
In March of this year, my wife took her SR22 to a pistol class, shooting the Winchester Super X. The ammo was very inconsistent with several under and over charged rounds. One hot round expanded the casing to the point it had to be hammered out of the chamber. These failures ruined the training session for her and correcting the malfunctions slowed the class for all of the participants.
That sucks. It's bad enough to have it happen out on the range on your own time, but something like that would really be a bummer.
What's even worse in my opinion is these rounds aren't considered "bulk pack" ,they're one hundred round packs which is the same as cci (my go to) for sure.
Yeah, pretty sad. Wallyworld actually has these priced higher per round than Standard CCI.😆😆😆
@@ToolsandTargets what's sad is I bought cci seconds that haven't been that inconsistent
@@chrisstrefling6193 I think you could fill the case with floor sweepings and get more consistency than this.😆😆😆
@@ToolsandTargets LMAO !
I thought for sure you had a squib in your barrel with that one shot. Those are so inconsistent overall, I wouldn’t trust them except on tin cans! Thanks Tools🤠
Same here. I was very surprised it made it out.
Glad to see you checked the barrel for an obstruction on that really weak load. Scarry stuff, espically with revolvers, it's so easy just to crank another round off. i generally shoot Federal 525 packs that I bought a bunch of in 2012. I've never noticed any week ones.
These have been the most inconsistent I've tested by far.
Recently (since the scamdemic) I've had issues with the white box 333's. I just stick to the federal bulk 22. Another great video, really enjoy the standard deviation along with everything else
Thank you sir.😎👊
Now before I even watch this I want to say, I don’t care how bad these do, they will always have a place in everyone’s childhood shooting memories ❤️ thanks for the classics tools
Those were differ times
I remember an amber box? Or amber tray? I wonder if those were the same ?
😎👍
@@DisgustedGenXr hell I’m only 20 yrs old, but I’m sure they gave the same memories❤️ and I hope they are bad rounds teach the children to clear a jam or two Lol
There was a recall on those not to long ago if I remember right. Some lots were not loaded with enough powder.
I think they loaded some of these with dust off the flloor of the factory.😆
Haven’t tried any of the newer Winchester bulk packs or any red rattlers. Finished my last Winchester 555 bulk up a few weeks ago. It was from 5 plus years ago and my 22/45 ruger shot them great . Thanks for the video.
Quality goes down while price goes up. Aint that a treat.
Another great test! Talk about inconsistent. I have a pellet gun that runs higher velocities than those. I have a few boxes of those, I’m kind of glad I didn’t stock up on a bunch. Keep the great videos coming
Thank you sir. I have four or five boxes of em still.😣
@@ToolsandTargets Good for more tests. 😄 ...or you can donate them to a needy person... Need my address? lol.
I've never had any issue out of them through my 10/22 model 60 and model 25 sears maybe it's the batches that different areas get
Damn shame seeing how poorly Winchester ammo seems to have come, I just got my hands on my great grandfathers model 74 chambered in 22lr and its an awesome old gun, still shoots great. They made some amazing guns back in the day! Thanks for the video, subbed! 🔫
Thank you sir. Appreciate that.😎👊
These are more expensive than mini mags at Walmart. I was always taught to stay away from them. I don't even like Winchester ammo to begin with. Thanks for showing us!!
Yeah, I noticed that at Wallyworld too. Pretty crazy.
Don’t believe I’ve ever seen an es that big. I can understand some inconsistencies in cheep bulk ammo but not that large. To bad the chrono didn’t pick up the real weak round. Thanks for the video!
Yeah, I would have loved to see what the really weak one was running.
After watching this splendid video; I decided to drag out some of my old stash Winchester 22lrs from the 80s to see if it is only the current ammo or past tense also. We set up the chronograph at the range and fired away from multiple Taurus 22Tx pistols and the Taurus TX Competition models. Averages were about 115-150 fps faster in the longer barrel competition model, but still Huge in fps variations. 5 shot groups were as low as 835 up to 1035. SO---this means; Winchester 22lr red box has Sucked since way back when! Now wonder it was super cheap! You get what you pay for. The Federal HPs and Spitfires were within 45 fps in 5 shot groups.
Main problem with the red rattlers is they package and price above the cost of better performing bulk pack from other manufacturers.
Agreed.👍
Nice save brother......when that tornado blew through. Lol! The wind's been crazy here too. (Southeast Mo)
You should have heard the choice words I had for that wind.😂😂😂
The velocity on those is all over the place. Never would of thunk it. Thanks for doing this test!
It was pretty crazy.
Thanks, good test. I'll avoid the red rattlers. I've had sketchy results with most bulk .22 stuff, though I think the Federal was a bit better. Remington can be good but when they are bad, it's the whole box that's goofy. It seems to be CCI that rules for consistency.
Yessir. I'm gonna do some CCI stuff too. I suspect they will be good stuff.
I never expected a lot out of bulk ammo compared to higher end ammo. Having said that, no surprises here. Another great video! Thanks tools!
Thank you sir.😎👊
This is exactly the very reason for why I quit buying and using pretty much all Winchester ammo except shotgun ammo and I definitely no matter under any circumstances buy or will use any Winchester 22 ammo I've had nothing but the worst performance and reliability from them no matter if it's bulk or a small box of specialty ammo from them I've had issues with them all and refuse to buy that garbage and I honestly tend to stick to Federal and Hornady for pretty much all my 22 and center-fire needs they're good priced and reliable and accurate and also CCI for 22 as well are hard to beat. I gave up on Winchester yrs ago this is no new problem with them in my longtime plinking and competition shooting experience they get 2 big thumbs down for me.
Yeah, I've had pretty poor performance out of their white box .22lr compared to other bulk stuff over the years.
Thanks for the video. I knew that something was wrong with the Winchester ammo, but I thought it was the speed (1300 fps) that my rifle didn't like. I quit buying it because the accuracy was so bad in my 10/22, which is a tack driver with most other brands, including Remington Thunderbolt bulk.
Yeah,
Yeah with this inconsistency, groups would be all over the place.
I've always had great luck with the Remington Thunderbolts. I've got several bricks of it stashed away. I bought it back when the prices were not crazy.
I snagged 6 boxes of this stuff for cheap as it was the only 22lr I could find for less than $10 at the time. They were very inconsistent. I only shoot them out of a revolver or level action. Truth be told I'd still buy some if I could find it cheap enough lol
It's definitely some inconsistent stuff.
Great Vid buddy. I have a case of the 333 Winchester I got 4-5 years ago for $118 and I wonder if the stories about this ammo being bad. Since this is old stock ammo I wonder if it's just the newer white box that is bad. I have shot the 333 box along time ago and had no issues so that is why I wonder if it is just this new stuff out.
Thank you sir. Very possible. Seems like a lot of manufacturers are rushing stuff out with little to no QC.
@@ToolsandTargets That's what I am thinking too.
Another good video. I just watched the thunderbolt bulk ammo one you posted awhile back. Looked really good bulk ammo. I just converted my Glock 19 9mm to accept 22lr. I might grab a thousand rounds of that thunderbolt. I Do appreciate the info videos. 👍👍
I've liked the Thunderbolts also .... seemed better than many others.
Thank you sir. I've always had good luck with Thunderbolts in the past.👍
@@megatrends That's really good to know. Out here in California. The 500 round box of thunderbolt goes for $40. I've been blowing through a lot of 9mm ammo at the range so I figured the conversion kit for 22 LR will save a good amount of money for the time being. 👍
@@ToolsandTargets that's good to know. Like you said in the video. Not the best round for a defense round. But for target shooting. It's quality for the price. Looking forward to the Ammo haul video this coming week! 👌
W😢W, what a load of crap those Winchester RR's have turned out to be. Thanks for thanking the time to go back and give them another chance. Way to inconsistant for me, 400 some feet difference in terrible. Then add in that super weak round. I'll stay away from these things. Keep the faith and thanks again my friend.
Thank you sir. Definitely way too inconsistent.
Geez!!!!!!I I have some old super X that have been good, individual gray boxes.
I say old, back in the 2.00 a box days
You aint kidding!
It rather looks like these Winchester cartridges must be the McDonald's of the ammunition world!
😆😆😆
Ah ,weak load could be dangerous. I'm not a fan , too inconsistent. Glad that gust didn't kill any equipment. The weakest round sounded like my old .22 Crossman pellet rifle. I've never seen this ammo. Thanks Tools
Appreciate ya, brother. That wind gust was stronger than the weak red Rattler shot.😂😂😂
I used to use the Federal Lightning 500 round ammo in the old blue boxes back in the 80's, and in my Marlin 60 it always ran excellent. It was also a great bargin at $5.99/box. Those days are gone. I got great accuracy with the micro grooves in the Marlin. It seemed to just excel with that ammo. I had used a few boxes of the Super X in it too, but never noticed any bad rounds, though it wasn't as accurate as the Lightnings were. It's pretty sad that their quality control has slipped this bad. Hopefully they take corrective action in this.
😎👍
Would love to see a test on the Winchester M22. Have heard a lot of mixed opinions on them. Nice test on the red rats.
Those are definitely on my list. I honestly don't think I have ever shot a single round of em.
Before the shortage hit wal mart had them 1000 rounds for $35-$40, my m&p 22 liked them. The wax coating on them is kind of annoying but, they ran good and priced well enough to run a lot of rounds every weekend.
@Tools&Targets keep these greatb tests coming. With the price of ammo I've been shooting a lot of 22 so it's great to see what's worth buying. Thanks again.
@@leegreene3059 I've got a 1000 round box of these rounds. Got them at Walmart for $35 I believe. I've only fired a very few of them. I was testing a Taurus P22 I picked up real cheap from a friend. The Winchester ammo wouldn't work in the small Taurus. Jammed up on every shot with it. But that seemed to be the norm with that Taurus with most of the ammo I tried in it
Great reaction time saving the equipment with a firearm in your hand. That low one was very scary and good job catching a potential disaster. I need to check my inventory to see if I have any of these and put them to the side/away. Are these cheaper than other non CCI bulk packs?
Usually these are actually more expensive than most bulk stuff. Wallyworld even had em priced higher per round than CCI standard.😆
@@ToolsandTargets That's horrible!!!
Just shoot them, if they are bad, then contact Winchester and get them replaced.
Thanks for supplying us good info on this ammo ! It is appreciated!
Thank you sir.😎👊
I seem to have more issues with the federal auto match than with the Winchester. Interesting to see how much inconsistency is in those though. Great information
Thank you sir. I thought I was shooting my Red Ryder with that one weak round.😆
Is this batch something you have bought lately? I have some that I’ve had for quite sometime and have never had that problem. Just curious with all of the demand on ammo these days i have noticed poorer quality in several other components lately. Thanks for another good video review.
These particular ones were bought about a year ago.
Oh know that is about the time I bought some of mine I’ll make sure I check them when we shoot. Again thanks for the video.
I bought my two boxes about a month ago because I hadn’t seen them since they were about $8 a box at Walmart and I paid I think $13 and some change I was just getting them because I didn’t have any of those particular ones and was going to save them but now I’m kinda curious to see if they are any better I don’t have a chrono but I can listen and watch for inferior discharges
I’m sorry but I was laughing my ass off when you went falling over with the chronograph. I have been there way to many times, ammo falling, chronograph falling, seems like I always take the chronograph out in the crappiest weather
😂😂😂 I had to cut that part pretty fast because there was definitely some rated R language very quickly after.😂😂😂
Good on you for stopping when you felt/heard/saw an anomaly. I always stress to anyone who I shoot with that if you knock off 5 rounds and the 6th sounds of feels funny STOP shooting! I have been on the wrong end of a squib load and it was painful. Blew the rifle apart and the barrel looked like a tree branch. The force drove the magazine out of the bottom and into the ground. And I knew it was coming, no recoil and the noise level dropped in half. My first thought was "huh...that was odd. Wonder what that meant?..." and never stopped to check.
Yeah, I definitely don't need any extra "excitement."😆
No matter the manufacture all 22 rf ammo is mass produced, by automatic machines.
I was frustrated with the "fliers".
What I found by weighing 100 rds of F A M , was a 1.1 grain difference from lightest to heavy.
The light loads will hit low and to the right, the heavy ones would high and to the left.
The rounds that were in the middle, the ones that weighed exactly the same.
At 50 yards, from the bench, 5 shot one hole groups, the size of a thumb nail.
A way to get "Target" ammo out of inexpensive bulk 22rf ammo.
😎👍
I’ve tried a newer batch of these in a Savage 64f and a Heritage Rough Rider. Worked fine to be honest. Lately I’ve only had problems with ANYTHING Remington (subsonic, golden bullet, game loads). I’ll have one that sounds like a squib or ftf in pretty much every magazine/cylinder.
same results, and the same guns as well
The red rattlers should be called the red stragglers.
Your famous last words was Hilarious, i was super scared you were gonna lose your trademark hat lol.
it almost seems to me you had to sensor yourself naming the jelly time so i will come up with one for ya, you can call it the "Weakly Freakly" jelly time.
great testing there tools, love the hard work you put into these videos and risking yourself and your hat for us lol.
LOL, I definitely had to censor myself after that wind disaster.😂😂😂
We can rest easy at night knowing that Winchester has won the last two major army ammo contracts.
😂😂😂
About 7 years ago I bought some "Browning" .22 lr that was made by Winchester. It would not chamber in any of my semi autos and with the camming power of a few of my bolt guns they would go into battery with a lot of difficulty. The culprit was the bullets were just too large in diameter. No match chambers, just everyday run of the mill semi autos.
Hate to get bad ammo.😣
I truthfully don't think of that as typical bulk ammo. when I think of bulk it is generally boxes of 250 or above of loose packed ammo. Winchester taking the time and effort to pack these in a plastic case with the rounds separated with an insert would make most think they are getting above bulk performance not below. my Ruger SR22 is ammo picky so I never buy bulk 22 ammo and if I got a box of those my SR22 would turn into a signal shot for sure.
Agreed. You would think these are better quality than "bulk" instead of worse.
My semi auto long tool just hates those Red Rattlers. Thanks for the video.
I bet so. Appreciate ya sir!
I personally dont like the rattlers I use them at the range when they run out Im done with themThe Sportsmans Warehouse today has Aquila's high velocity hollow points for $4.99 a box of 50 no limit whatsoever I bought plenty Be Safe and God Bless 🙏🙏
Nice! I've always liked Aguila stuff.
@@ToolsandTargets me to so for that price right now I stocked up👍
🇦🇺😎👍Hey big fella it’s a public holiday down here today so Tools is here once again to the rescue.....RRs Junk , lol ! Those Red rattlers down here are $299 / 2000. One lot 37 grain and the other lot 40 grain and they claim 1330 & 1435 fps which is nothing like your results. They must be using 24” barrels to get them results .....nah I don’t think so 🤔. I can’t stand the weak ones....too much variation mate......😮Jelly time ! Cheap junk that costs too much 😐.... The true results of the test is Tools and Targets saves us all a lot of $$s.....thankyou fine Sir✌
Nice! Appreciate ya brother. I definitely wont be stocking up on anymore of these.
@@ToolsandTargets 😎✌
I get a lot of split cases with the Winchester 17 HMR ammo 17 and 20 gr. It doesn't happen with Hornady, CCI, or Federal ammunition but two or three out of 50 will split the neck of the case with Winchester rounds.
😣
TOOL..!! I STOVE PIPE MY 10-22 WITH THE WHITE BOX 222 , I HAVE A MACHINIST THAT DRILLED OUT THE LEAD...!!!!! I TRY TO STICK TO FEDERAL BULK AND REMINGTON ..!!!! THANK YOU AGAIN FOR A GREAT VIDEO ..!! I GOT TO GO TO THE RANGE TODAY ,, GREAT TIME ..!! 22, 40, 45 ...!!!! DOUBLE G. HERE..!!!
Nice! I had to cut grass and blow leaves today and then rained this afternoon.😣
I had a Winchester White box 22LR split its case in my clean [less than 50 rounds since a thorough cleaning] and fairly new [less than 300 rounds through it] Beretta M9 22LR.
15% failure rate too.
That aint cool.😣
Thanks Tools, I think I have a sleeve of these, but not sure. I know it is Winchester, but it may be some subsonic rounds. I know that I have had some issues with the bulk 333 boxes before so if you check consistency on them you may find the same. I think my biggest issue was failure to fire with the bulk Winchester .22LR. Thanks again.
Same here on the white box stuff.
Well now this was a interesting video and I think I will avoid buying any of those bulk red Rattlers. I do shoot a lot of bulk 22 ammo of various types just because they are cheaper and I have had my share of defective ones Plus I even had a squib load once.
Appreciate you checkin it out. I have 4 or 5 more boxes of these but I don't think I'll be adding anymore to the pile.
I think you should email them with the lot number and the site of this video to see the results. They will not get better if you do not let them know.
I imagine I'd get some canned corporate response and an offer for a replacement box of ammo. Not worth my time. If they actually cared, this ammo wouldn't have left the factory.
After watching you shoot these it’ll be a long time before I get my couple boxes out and I expend them
I sure wont be buying anymore. I have about 4 or 5 boxes still.😣
I've shot about 500 of them the 22mags out of my Heritage Rough Rider no problems yet..
😎👍
I just found this video and found it very interesting. As an old shotgun shooter I always preferred Winchester shotgun shells over the Federal and Remington brand. I had quite a bit of experience with Federal 9mm and .45 pistol ammunition and was not overly impressed. I occasionally plinked with a .22. I had purchased all the .22 ammunition I could find when there was a consumer shortage several years ago. When did the Winchester ammo quality go south? I was coerced into some rimfire competition starting last year so I decided to use the least expensive .22 ammunition I had purchased several years prior, Remington Thunderbolt. I used the Remington ammunition in a Browning Buckmark and a Ruger 10/22. While the ammunition was very "dirty" and had considerable lead build up, it never failed to fire or eject. I was not going to use my "good" ammunition for this competition. That "good" ammunition was all the Winchester .22's. I have the bulk white boxes in the 333's and the 555's along with the black boxes. In addition, I have the Remington Golden's and some CCI's in both the Mini-mag and Stingers. Since the competition involves speed as well as accuracy, and after this video, I am wondering about the Winchester ammunition failure creating a dangerous situation on the range. And to me, the vast FPS variation is a failure.
It definitely seems like quality on a lot of things has gone way down. Pretty much lock of the draw from batch to batch now.😣
I've noticed several differences in ammo perception vs firearm.
Some ammo don't like some guns, I don't fully understand if its a tolerance issue, or if its a brand issue.
Example is a marlin 60, vs a ar 22 conversion. The red box will run all day fine in my ar, but I can't get 5 rounds out of my marlin.
I've done this comparison with 14 different 22 brands now, and it seems to me to be picky ammo vs picky guns.
Idk maybe its not a real test because I didn't use metrics other then fail to fire but hey, its my experience, take it with a grain of salt.
😎👍
I never cared much for winchester ammo in their rimfire brand or shotgun ammo ,I always went for federal or remington ammo .the automatch is a very good round ,that my ruger Mark III Hunter loves.I have a few box's or them red rattlers,but I havnt shot any of them yet .ill be keeping a close eye on them when I do use them now,after seeing them weak loads .thanks for all you do,and stay safe.
Thank you sir. I'm pretty happy with the Automatch too.
Buy CCI whenever available
👍
I tried Winchester SuperX’s in my GSG firefly and Savage 64... both of them had issues with it. I stick to CCI mini mags, CCI Blazer and Federal auto match; those seem reliable for me.
This stuff is definitely a poor performer.
I remember when Winchester super X was a great choice. It was my go to. This was like 25 years ago.
Yessir.👍
I stopped buying Winchester.22 ammo around 1997/8. It used to be worse. I’m done with Winchester.22 ammo. Aguilla, Golden Bullets & Federal AutoMatch work just fine for me & mine. Good tests
I shoot a minimum of 400 rounds of 22LR every week out of various 22 LR Platforms. I have had so many issues with Winchester 22LR that I would not buy them if they were free. I have had similar issues with the 800 round bulk boxes of Federal and I steer away from Federal in general with the exception of the 325 round boxes of Federal Auto Match. They seem to perform well. I should note here that I shoot seven different 22LR weapons.
Sounds about right.👍
Recently found out that Winchester ammo is way out of specs in regards to case size, and much of it won't chamber well in a Ruger revolver that easily loads every other brand. The rounds stop before they will drop into the chamber, so it seems that the cases on the Winchester are too large or are oval in cross-section. Other brands tried were Remington (Yellowjackets), CCI Standard Velocity, Aguila Super Extra, Armscor HPs, and some Sellier and Bellot solids from Czech Republic.
Interesting 🤔
From what I seen of the Red Rattler's performance in the video I would not use it for any shooting applications I have. With a high of 1085 fps and a low of 612 fps along with dozens of rounds fired with readings in between the spread is too erratic and inconsistent for my liking. However, there were some good velocities recorded for a .22 LR, (high 900's to mid 1000's), but this particular box of ammo was like that proverbial "box of chocolates", you never knew what you were going to get! 😵💫So I'm out...I figured you'd be doing this test pretty quick after the problems you had with this ammo in the "Punch Video". Enjoyed the video! Take care and stay safe my friend! 😉
Thank you sir. Absolutely agree.
Took my Saiga 12's out for a feeding. Had a bulk pack of Winchester bulk target loads (3 dram), a box of Federal pink pussycat target loads (2 3/4 dram), and Federal bulk pack target loads (3 dram). The Federal hulls landed 6' away, the pink pussycats about 5, and the Whinchester at my feet with a lot of stovepipes.
I got to shoot 4 bricks of military standard velocity back in the 80's. The ammo was made by Olin/Winchester. Shooting a 10/22 with 30rnd Bingham mags, I had the weapon gunk up to the point that the firing pin froze in the forward position. RUN AWAY FULL AUTO TIME! The mag well was completely filled with unburnt powder by the time we were done.
Also had a Super X blow out the chamber at the extractor in my High Standard pistol. Not fond of Winchester ammo. Too bad they have the current military contract for Lake City AAP.
That's a shame.😣
Winchester used to make the super x 50 round box they were great shooting 22 LR bullets now I mostly buy the cci mini mags and federal auto match they seem to work a lot more consistent in my 10-22 and my Ruger mark three pistol.
Shame how quality has gone down.
This is exactly why I have used only CCI for 40 years when it comes to .22LR. I have had problems with every other brand. Only a handful of weak rounds over the years and 1 fail to fire from CCI. I lost count on the other brands.
😎👍
Once again, Another awesome test bro. Now you got me wonderin too about the white box and those crazy expensive yellow boxes. I appreciate the data
I'm definitely gonna test the white box like this, and I'm actually considering buying one of those overpriced yellow boxes to test.
I used to use those. Not any more. Keep testing that ammo. Thanks
The only ammo I have problems with is Winchester. Used to get it when Walmart sold real ammo. For me the white box centrrfire handgun ammo since 2012 has had offset primers, split brass out of the box, inconsistent groups...the red box 22lr has had HOT loads in the past. Now you are showing low powder. Gesh...
Try the Aguila 22lr 40gr. Great stuff so far. It has become my favorite...even over CCI
Yessir. I've had great luck with Aguila.
Cci mini mags, or standard velocity. No issues. I tried some browning ammo high velocity hollow points. Shot well and very hot. You can feel them. They almost recoil.
I definitely wanna do some CCI tests like this.
My brother worked at Olin till he retired last year. He said do NOT buy,22 ammo after the move to Mississippi because None of the people was properly trained on the machines or the loading of all the ammo including .22 ammo. All of my .22 ammo i have is the Alton Illinois made ammo.
I definitely believe it from what I've seen.👍
My experience with Winchester 22LR has been awful. I get more misfires with this brand than any other I have tried. Thanks for the video.
They sure seem like some inconsistent stuff.
I hear a lot of complaints on this series of ammo from Winchester. My question would be, are the materials now inferior, machinery obsolete/not maintained, or workers inept.
They had a successful product before - what changed.
Back in the 80s my primary was CCI Mini Mag. My secondary was Winchester Super X. They were almost equal to me then. My third string plinking load was Federal lightning. it was cheap and dirty. I rarely shot anything else. Thunderbolt and Remington Golden bullet was way down the list unless K-Mart had a real sale.
The good ol days.😣
Just used it for the first time yesterday.. compared it with cci. Grouping was terrible. CCI I was getting dime size groups at 50 yards. Winchester was all flyers.
Doesn't surprise me at all.😆
Not very consistent ammo, that one sounded like a bb gun shot. I Would only buy these if they were a lot cheaper than anything else and I just wanted to do some plinking. Appreciate the test 👍👍
Yeah, that one was crazy.
That's enough info to keep me from spending my money on these. JUNK!!! I'll stick with the CCI 's. At least they seem to be consistent. Quick question, have you tested the Winchester Silver Tip in 380 yet?
I haven't yet buy I just picked some up last week so definitely gonna be testing them soon.😎👍
I've tried Winchester .22lr white box in handguns and rifles. Terrible. Also used their 9mm which performed fine. I've tried Federal automatch and have been pleasantly surprised. Very good for bulk.
Same as I've seen from my experience.👍
The 22 wmr version of that round is awesome but those boxes vary from case to case in reliability and accuracy but these and browning have been the most common rounds I've found the last year.
Yeah, I haven't noticed any problem with the wmr versions.
As I reload 99 percent of my ammunition I rarely buy center fire but mostly buy shotgun and 22 ammo. I have several brands of 22 in including Winchester wildcat and no problems , I bought two boxes of Winchester white box 44 mag two years ago at Walmart to have brass to reload the 44 mag with.about every round flattened the primers. powder burning rate to fast.my 240 gr xtp has some light flattening at at least 250 fps faster same weight bullet and shoots good as this old fart can do it.31/2-4 inch groups off hand at 20 yards .not bad for a compact 5 shot 44 mag and a 3 in barrel. my reloaded 180 xtp 1265 and 1350 fps average 2-3 inch 20 yards.this is my carry defense/ hunting load. a few Winchester 12 gauge mag turkey loads failed to fire. I think it tried the shells in the shotguns and wouldn't fire .I put no trust in them and I won't tolerate it. the federal turkey loads no problems except beating the spit out of me. I love your tests there fare and honest I sing your praises. papa wishing you well
Thank you sir. Appreciate the comment!
I bought a bunch of Winchester 222, 333, 555, and Super X .22lr in the red boxes like these,, but they are older lots from 2018, 2019. I haven't had any problems with them, however, the recently produced Anniversary 300 rd boxes of Winchester were all over the place in power, and some of the primers were duds... I wonder what's up with Winchester, I won't but anymore of their. 22lr ammo until quality comes back... Glad I bought a bunch way back when...
I've actually considered picking up one of those overpriced Anniversary boxes just to test out.
@@ToolsandTargets They are overpriced junk ammo in a pretty box. Two of my friends bought that ammo, all of us from different locations, and we all got the same results. Try it... You'll probably not like it, but it would make for another test video... Have fun!!
I bought some of these a few years ago. I will be keeping an eye on them for sure.
Definitely some of the most inconsistent so far.
My local gun store sold me about 4 boxes of those a year ago. I've not shot them yet because I've been shooting the Norma. Norma shoots well through my Walther P22. I'll probably shoot up those Winchester Super X now that I know they're not that great. The 1300 FPS on the box is false advertising.
I guess maybe if you ran it through a 28 inch barrel under perfect conditions and didn't run into one of the weak ones, you might see 1300.😆
I bought some .22lr years ago that wouldn't even go all the way through an empty milk jug. They were thunderbolts, I don't recall who made them as it was back in the 1970's
😣😣😣
I would like to see this same test with the federal punch.
Coming very soon.😎👍
My dad used to always buy winchester so i shot a lot of it growing up. For a long time as an adult i bought it but no more. I started having a lot of failures to fire in the 50 round gray boxes in long rifles as well as magnums not to mention the stove pipes in semi autos. They load 4-5 kinds that are put into the red plastic boxes so it pays to read them closely. I always liked the expansion of the power points but now i usually only buy cci/Federal or Aguila. It's a shame their quality control has gotten so bad. I haven't been brave enough to try Remington yet but i'm curious if they have gotten better after Vista bought them and is loading now. I would think it has had to get better. I have used a good bit of their centerfires for years but never did like their rimfires.
Sounds about right. Seems like quality on a lot of things has gone downhill.😣
I couldn't get these red rattlers to work in my TX22. I had some blazer .22 with at the time and that cycled just fine.
These things were a mess!