“It’s a strange myth that atheists have nothing to live for. It’s the opposite. We have nothing to die for. We have everything to live for.” ― Ricky Gervais
@@jhamilton1007 ..that is very weird way to look at it... why something that has no proof of it would be more important than this life that you are living? Why live for dying? Wake up :)
Jay Hamilton it does matter because when we reach the day and are on our death you can be happy that we lived the best possible life and had the opportunity to experience what this life had to offer sadly many more didn’t get that chance, so we do have everything to live for because we want to be able to die happily and know it was worth this life.
@@supernaturalarch666 My point was, that we can't take anything we accomplished or gained physically into the afterlife. The only thing we'll take is the experience and wisdom.
Vin you missed the point entirely. It isn't that humankind has an inherent value, it's the monumental accomplishment of simply existing. It's the whole reason people believe in God to begin with. The very presence of life itself is unfathomably unbelievable when you consider the odds, by nearly every law of the universe, we shouldn't even exist, but due to an infinite number of random happenstance, we do, which is absolutely mind breaking to consider, the deeper you think into it, the more absurd the concept seems. This is how the concept of divine creation is formed, it's much easier to believe an omnipotent being is the architect to our grand design, than to conceive the miracle of life. It is the understanding of how impossible the odds were that you, the individual could be born, and the accomplishments of your life that awakens your mind to how easily you could not have been, which is supposed to inspire you to make the most of your life, and simply appreciate your life. It is such a complex and intricate concept that most people cannot grasp it, or choose not to.
beautifully put and so right. i happen to think there is some 'force' that is guiding this and its felt through everything like the gaia hypothesis, but oh so much more :)
The thing is the whole concept of randomness of human evolution and existence fights against his christian beliefs and values. It is no wonder he can't grasp the meaning of miracle of existense.
@Non Believer Its failings in human nature that you point out. Not "Religion". To error is human. Religion is like a star in the night sky. It is there. How we each see it is how we perceive it. Some will say "it's a red star". Others will say "it's a blue star". Yet in fact, from this distance nobody can actually see what color it actually is with the naked eye. The star hasn't changed enough to notice. How we see it has.
Right? Our species has literally existed on this planet within the blink of an eye. We're still newcomers compared to how long the dinosaurs roamed the earth.
Within this vast universe (multiverse?), life is the exception, not the rule. Hence, every living organism is exceptional. We are conscious of that, and this consciousness is, I think, our blessing or our curse.
Do the math: Factor the entire planets, asteroids, satellites, and all the galactic bodies that are ("places" for short), with the known "places" that actually have complex living organisms (as fas as we know).
"We were here" doesn't emphasize the "we", but the "here". It means we have been lucky to be here. In fact the songs isn't complete. In the studio version, eventually Humankind disappears and we only hear the seawaves and the sounds from some animals. Earth without people. It's like the second dawn.
OMG !!! Translated the whole song: lyrics are in " ": "Archaean horizon, The first sunrise" Earth's history is divided into four principal Eons: the Hadean, the Archean, Proterozoic, and the Phanerozoic. The Hadean is the Eon during which the Earth and Moon formed; in the Archaean, primordial life appeared. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Earth) "On a pristine gaea" Gaia is the primordial Greek goddess of the Earth. More recently, the Gaia hypothesis is a recognition of the living and nonliving Earth systems which form an interdependent whole. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia) "Opus perfectum, Somewhere there, us sleeping" Pristine perfection (of silence, of a blank page, of the very point from which the big bang itself sprung) implies a rich creative potential. Here Earth is painted in the same powerful way. Diversity awaits; unborn beings are sleeping the same sleep to which they will return at death. This interpretation is thematically linked with the album's opening track, "Shudder before the Beautiful," which includes the lyrics, "The music of this awe, Deep silence between the notes, Deafens me with endless love." Or as the furious hobbit screamed at the novice trumpeter, "An artist respects the silence, it serves as the foundation of creativity." (th-cam.com/video/9E62iA6KCIQ/w-d-xo.html) [Part 2: Life] "The cosmic law of gravity Pulled the newborns around a fire, A careless cold infinity in every vast direction. Lonely farer in the Goldilocks zone" Gravity pulls the Earth and its inhabitants around the energizing Sun in an otherwise inhospitable universe. Earth is the only planet in our solar system's circumstellar habitable zone, orbiting at the "just right, not too hot, not too cold" distance from the Sun. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstellar_habitable_zone) "She has a tale to tell, From the stellar nursery into a carbon feast, Enter LUCA" In astronomy, stellar nurseries are the birthplaces of stars: they nurse stars (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_formation#Stellar_nurseries). Poetically, our solar system is another "stellar nursery," in which a star is the nurse, caring for and warming a planet of 'newborns,' early carbon-based life. "Feast" evokes the incorporation of plentiful chemical building blocks into rudimentary life forms. "LUCA" stands for "Last universal common ancestor," the one single organism from which all other presently existing life on Earth descended. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_universal_ancestor) "The tapestry of chemistry is a writing in the garden, Leading us to the mother of all" The periodic table of elements does look like a sort of patchwork tapestry, but this can go further. The historical function of tapestries was as "nomadic murals," pictographical histories which moving people could pack up and revisit wherever they went. The "writing in the garden," in nature, is not only the stone murals left by dead animals in the form of fossils, but is also this chemical writing that encodes the relatively nomadic DNA molecule with the instructions for life. The scientific investigation of this information leads us back to LUCA, and further. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapestry#Function) "We are one, We are a universe," This is the natural conclusion to draw from the fact that life shares common origin, that all life is built with the same blocks, and that all life on Earth is interdependent (gaia hypothesis). The multiplicity of beings on Earth are one, just as the cells in a body are one. "Forebears of what will be Scions of the Devonian sea." The Devonian geologic time period marked the first significant, rapid diversification of life (and the more well-known Cambrian explosion is another of these 'adaptive radiation' events). It was during the Devonian that the 'higher plants' appeared and blanketed the continents with forests. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devonian). The word "scion" refers to a shoot of a plant cut for grafting, and is also used to denote a descendent of a notable family. Both meanings apply. "Aeons pass, Writing the tale of us all. A day-to-day new opening For the greatest show on Earth" Evolutionary adaptation is written in the DNA and as fossils in the rocks, and is ongoing. Species die, diversifiy and delineate. Every day is different, every day something changes. "Ion channels welcoming the outside world To the stuff of stars" Ion channels are found in the membranes of all cells, controlling the flow of energy through the cells. The stuff of stars is all the physical matter we're made of. So it's the ion channels, guiding enery, which allow living bodies to interact with the rest of the world by exchanging energy with it. "Stuff of stars" is surely a Sagan reference: "The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff." (For fun: th-cam.com/video/XGK84Poeynk/w-d-xo.html) "Bedding the tree of a biological holy, Enter life" The bed of a tree is the nutrient-rich soil from which it grows, a soil made of dead things. The "tree of a biological holy" is probably the tree of life (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life). This line refers to the "holy" legendary tree of everlasting life but also means the conceptual, branching family tree of all life, whose bed consists of all deceased beings (in a more literal sense), or all extinct ancestral species (in a more abstract sense). This is thematically linked with the song "Alpenglow." "We are here to care for the garden, The wonder of birth Of every form most beautiful" "We" could be human beings tasked with acting as nature's stewards, garden of eden style, but that's not chronological -- human beings haven't quite appeared in the song yet. "We" could instead be all of life itself, in a gaia-philosophy sense, which posits that life creates environments ever more hospitable to more life. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_philosophy) Or maybe it's a combination of these two thoughts: life eventually creates an environment suitable for the development of consiously acting, thinking human stewards. [Part 3: The Toolmaker] "After a billion years, The show is still here. Not a single one of your fathers died young." Every single one of a given person's ancestors, male and female, lived past puberty at least. But "fathers" evokes "forefathers," which has a nicer storytelling ring to it than "parents." "The handy travelers Out of Africa Little Lucy of the Afar" Handymen are good with tools; travelers posessing hands rather than forefeet walk upright. Hominids originated in Africa and spread to the rest of the world from there. Lucy is a particular specimen of the Australopithecus, one of many "missing links" between modern humans and nonhuman ancestors. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_(Australopithecus)) "Gave birth to fantasy, To idolatry, To self-destructive weaponry. Enter the God of gaps Deep within the past. Atavistic dread of the hunted!" The brain grows, consciousness and creativity along with it. Atavism is the tendency to revert to ancestral type, an evolutionary throwback. Fight-or-flight instincts that helped human ancestors survive have now been creatively projected onto the world to both explain it (origins, meaning, suffering) and gain security in it (bargaining through sacrifice). These are the roots of theism. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atavism) "Enter Ionia, the cradle of thought, The architecture of understanding. The human lust to feel so exceptional, To rule the Earth" Nomadic people develop agriculture and settle down into civilizations. The word "architecture" is at once both literal and figurative. The efficiency of civilization graces people with free time to do more than just feed themselves. They develop rich cultural traditions, arts and philosophies, much of which are deeply influenced by how different humans now are from all the rest of life. "Hunger for shiny rocks, For giant mushroom clouds, The will to do as you'd be done by." Shiny rocks are wealth: gold, precious stones, jewels, and later uranium which leads to the nuclear arms race. The golden rule -- "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" -- is a coin with a dark side: "an eye for an eye," revenge. This ensures the "MAD"ness of mutually assured destruction. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction) "Enter history, the grand finale. Enter ratkind." "Ratkind" comes from Richard Dawkins' book "The Ancestor's Tale." Dawkins imagines a post-apocalyptic world in which rodents feast on the remnants of humanity (and humanity's garbage). The rat population explodes, and then as they exhaust these resources they turn on one another for food. As a consequence of natural selection, the rats diverge into new carnivorous and herbivorous species, and perhaps, eventually, a specices of rodent whose intelligence rivals that of humans. This is "ratkind." (iberianature.com/wildworld/tag/ratkind/) "Man, he took his time in the sun, Had a dream to understand A single grain of sand." From William Blake: "To see a World in a Grain of Sand, And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour." ...And the story of the planet in 24 minutes. Not bad. "He gave birth to poetry, But one day'll cease to be. Greet the last light of the library" A bittersweet redundancy: poetry with library, the last light with ceasing to be. Reminiscent of Elan: "Be the first to greet the morn [...] Travel with great élan, dance a jig at the funeral." "We were here!" Who else is going to vote for this song's inclusion on the next Voyager golden record, if there'll ever be one? I want to beam this song into space forever.
Life itself is the greatest show on earth. Mankind just makes up a tiny portion of life's evolution and will one day cease to be. But earth and the universe were there before mankind and will still be there when mankind is gone. The greatest show will go on. 'We were here' refers to being proud of having been a part of something bigger even if it was just a small part. The part with the cars that you didn't like refers to mankind exploiting and polluting the world and in the end working towards the end of mankind as part of this world, see also the text lines "Hunger for shiny rocks, for giant mushroom clouds" or "Gave birth to fantasy, To idolatry, To self-destructive weaponry"
This song is a celebration of life, having the capability to experience this world we call home and the natural process of evolution we share with with our closest relative amongst the animal kingdom, with all animals actually. To be able to explore these facts and experience these things. There truly is grandeur in this view of life without needing extra baggage to either try to explain it away, or to add to it for fulfillment.
@@VanJR. In the big picture yes. Evolution is the most incredible thing i have ever read about, i find it much more inspiring than any fairytail anyone ever came up with, i feel sad for people who let their faith keep them from learning about it
@@Ana198 our faith doesn't keep us from learning anything. We put it in perspective of our faith. The Bible told us 90% of what science has proven. But as I have pointed out elsewhere, how could the people in the bible have possibly known that even just 2000 years ago not counting the 200,000 years of cave drawings showing a belief in a Higher Power...
I've been waiting for this since I first found your guys channel. This song is such an important song for me and every time I hear this song during the we were here my eyes always start tearing up. This song has changed my view on life and how to live. One of my all time favorite songs, thank you for finally doing it.
Oh man, first 5 min in the discussion a Vins favorite fallacy again. For atheist this life is the most valuable thing there is because there is NOTHING but now. Christians claim to dance on some cloud or whatever in the afterlife so this life is just one part. For non religious people it's the ONLY part. So saying human life is therefore not special because you don't believe in an invisible friend THAT is makes no sense whatsoever. If anything atheist treasure their existence more then anyone else because it''s all there is. Songs like this are celebrating this. Yes atheists can be thankful to be alive also they are not infected by some mystery nihilistic indifference. Thank you ;)
Yea exactly, tbh I'm not an atheist but I totally get how life would be more treasured when it's all there is and it's so finite. The concept of eternity and the afterlife, while I often feel it to be reality, does lead me to a lot of nihilism when applied to the life here. Why does anything matter if there's just something else that'll last forever afterwards? To me if death doesn't matter, it's hard to say life does. To say that atheism can only be nihilistic or that theism can't be seems ridiculous to me. I get understand they have their own beliefs but I don't get why they can't understand this particular subject from other perspectives, especially when they do great at doing that for so many other subjects.
Some Atheists do. I have spoken to many who will say "we are just one of many organisms"... This planet doesn't need primates of any kind. Other animals do much its basic needs better than primates do. Most animals are stronger, faster, better equipped for this earth. We do a handful of things no other animals do. 1- The belief and display of belief in a Higher Power. 2- Purposefully cook food, especially proteins. 3- Sexuality for purely entertainment purposes. 4- Create music for purely entertainment purposes. 5- The concept of Conservation.
Human beings have a vicious need to believe in something greater then themselves, its the only thing that keeps us going. Now whether that thing is a god, or the "wonders of the universe", the end result is the same.... except for that religion gives you cause to do things for people other then yourself for no more reason then its the right thing to do, a vindication an atheist lifestyle can't justify. By its own logic the atheist lifestyle should be "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we may die". If there is nothing for you but the life you have, why would you do anything else that could potentially waste your precious little time here?
Funny, by that logic, atheist are infected by the delusion of blindly believing in science as the ultimate truth. In other words, blind believers in a reality fabricated by the interests of others. You don't need religion to have faith, but the lack of faith leaves you empty and dependent of a reality created by speudoscience. Those who choose "modern science" as definitive truth, are easily deceived and manipulated by the people providing it.
Another thing, I don't understand how Dawkins's quote about pitiless universe undermines anything you pointed out. To me, conceiving the nihilistic nature of the universe and finding beauty and poetry in it, they go perfectly hand in hand. The wonder, beauty, poetry, understanding, awe etc, they are part of our human experience, the universe doesn't have to give a damn for it to have an impact on us.
Nightwish are a Finnish band. In May 2012 the Helsinki Times published a survey by the Church Research Institute revealing that fewer than 1 in 3 Finns believed in the Christian god and that 1 in 5 was an atheist. The UN produces a World Happiness Report that includes a list of the 10 happiest countries. Contributory factors to happiness are identified as: strong community support, a government that can be trusted and freedom for the population. The current number one, the happiest country in the world, is Finland. The USA does not make the list. Do you think Finland is plagued by nihilism? Newsflash! People do not reject moral principles or find themselves cast adrift on an ocean of pointlessness just because their minds do not allow them to accept supernatural claims as real world actuality. You seem disconcertingly unable to put yourself in their shoes. Your lack of ability of willingness to empathise does not make others nihilists.
You don’t need god, a god, or any god to feel special, unique, or important. We were here. Yes, so was other organisms and they too have their place in the greatest show on earth.
@@bomblade15 They absolutely do. Packs, Hives and other groupings have their own concepts of Rationality. Some things ONLY humans do are Purposefully cook food, purposely practice conservation and purposefully display belief in a Higher Power.
I am so glad you get the conceptualization of Nightwish. Tuomas's music and lyrics are amazing to me. I get such a spiritual feeling listening to some of Nightwish's songs. Their music has gotten me through so much. I am glad that I was alive to witness something so meaningful and beautiful.
@@fdsannie I'm well, thank you honey!! I was hoping to see you on the comments somewhere!!! Glad you enjoyed it 😘😍💜💜💜💜 I thought it was a great breakdown!! I love Vin and Sori for that. Hands down BEST channel imo 💜 I hope you can catch the livestream of the Vehicle of Spirit DVD if they do it!!!
Wow, you were criticizing Dawkins for using "poetic language" in his literature and then directly after started quoting the Bible, the highest form of "poetic language" in history...
Atheists can appreciate the rarity of life for its own sake. Natural processes brought us into existence and we will each never be here again. Our lives have meaning because we each make meaning for ourselves. No cosmic puppetmaster needed.
39:01 "There is grandeur in this view of life..." That part until the end is Charles Darwin's closing statement from his book "On the Origin of Species"
The text is from the greatest show on earth by Richard Dawkins, don't blame him, he just tell the truth. The point was that you should be happy that you got a life , is that not enough?
This entire album was a love letter to the universe, evolution, humanity, and the scientific process. They even made a song called "Sagan", as in the late, legendary Carl Sagan.
I'm so happy you took the time to review and analyze this song. It obviously is based on biology, chemistry, physics, and history. As such, it is predicted that the Earth will disappear some time in a million years. Thus, the fact that we, humans, feel so exceptional, is valid as long as we are here. We, humans, must understand our time is limited so fighting against each other is senseless at the end. We were here is a paradoxical statement because no one will be there to testify that we were here. As a partial conclusion I can say that existence is valuable because (i) all the physical laws of the universe make it so darn hard for life to exist, (ii) life is limited, and (iii) as far as we know, humans is the only species to be conscious about the former two points. Great work guys.
There are two spoken parts in this song, one at the beginning and one at the end, both by Richard Dawkins They are: Beginning- "After sleeping through a hundred million centuries We have finally opened our eyes on a sumptuous planet Sparkling with color, bountiful with life Within decades we must close our eyes again Isn't it a noble, an enlightened way of spending our brief Time in the sun, to work at understanding the universe And how we have come to wake up in it?" End (Two parts)- "We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Sahara. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here. We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?" "There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one. And that whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."
There's few things Richard Dawkins is good at in my opinion and that atheism stuff is not included. a) Apparently he is a damn good biologist and b) the guy "invented" the concept of a meme back in 1976.
Many people often do miss the point of this song. The Whole "We Were Here" part is basically a cry to those that would be the future, that at one point in time Humans existed. Its basically the Genetic Lottery. Over 90% of the species ever to walk the earth are gone, that's something we all have to think about. All Periods of time, Ages that have passed, Creatures that once roamed all gone. Leaving us to forge ahead, and one day we will be gone. As well the Lions, Bears, Snakes, Butterfly's, Ants and even Cockroaches. Until all that remains is frozen Fungi & Protists. So the part "We Were Here" is really an outcry to evolution that has pushed forward, leaving all those behind in its wake. I truly love Dawkins outlook on creation. There are more bodies that would never exist that out number the sands of the sahara. We all believe we were put here for a purpose, truth we could've easily been left on a napkin, or aborted, or been stillborn. And another truth is many of us were mistakes, some of us planned, many of us abandoned & unwanted. So the fact that we are here instead of the Woolly Mammoth shows us that evolution takes what can't survive or evolve. And one day we will fall short of evolution, and thus life continues on for the next stage of evolution. The Circle of Life is a bitch, but a beautiful one. Shudder Before the Beautiful
@@The_Pony )kneeslap laughing( Yeah, even tho Tarja only wrote fractions of a couple of songs, some lyrics in Finish that Tuomas and Marco turned into songs (with Finish titles I don't dare try to spell). But Tarjaholics insist there's "no NIGHTWISH without Tarja..." phishah! As important as she WAS, she would still be singing Folk music in Helsinki if Tuomas hadn't asked her to join his project, NIGHTWISH
The whole "We were here" point you were talking about. I think the point the song tries to make is that the fact we are here is already astonishing enough. We don't need to keep looking for reasons, or trying to feel exceptional. Animals don't know they are going to die, they just go along for the ride, never questioning purpose. Humans are unique in the fact that we are the only mortal animals. Every animal dies, but we are the ones smart enough to KNOW we are going to die. That knowledge often depresses us, makes us question the point of things etc. The "we were here" is a celebration of the fact you were even born to "care for the garden" and share in life. The fact that in an universal perspective we are not special does not diminish the experience to be here and comprehend that vastness. At least that's how I see it.
NorthernLights ofDemons Beside the point. Other animals are aware that their lives can be taken by other animals prematurely. They however aren’t aware of their limited lifespan and that avoiding every danger in the world will still lead to their death.
YAY finally I'm glad you guys reacted to this epic! I just wanted to comment on what Vin said about the "We were here" part and how it contradicts what came before since before it felt like we're not special in the great scheme of things, but now all of a sudden we are, to that I always say well that's exactly the point. That's what make us human, since we're conscious about all these things and the fact that we can create things like this and express our wonder is in itself part of the great journey of life on earth and evolution. I find it amusing how Vin can't take seriously people talking about life, evolution, creation, etc in pure scientific terms or simply not involving God or religion. So you are obligated to believe in a higher power in order to be amazed at the Universe and wonder about our place in it and even express ourselves?? Come oon :/ Anyway we may think were more important than cockroaches because of our point of view, but I'm sure many people and scientists will agree that after we're long gone, little insignificant roaches will still roam the earth.
I can take anything seriously if it remains consistent with itself. Dawkins says there’s no good or evil and that everything is random in the quote. That’s consistent with the idea there is no god. That I take very seriously. Nietzche and russel. I take them very seriously? What I don’t take seriously are folks who claim athiesm and have t thought through their worldview at all
I guess "not taking seriously" was a the wrong choice of words. What I meant is why can't people, specially in this case Dawkins, wonder and be amazed by existence and the Universe and ourselves without involving God even if he thinks is random or meaningless in the end. In my view, one thing doesn't contradict the other, on the contrary like other commenter said below, when you take God out of the equation in many of these questions is even more amazing to find ourselves in our place looking at the Universe and how amazingly absurd and mind blowing is that we exists at all and that can we even think and talk about it is even more amazing and worth celebrating like in the song, that's probably why the concept of God was created in the first place. I just had a problem with the idea of not being able to recognize that there can also be grand expressions and celebrations of life without involving divine forces.
@@VinAndSori I'm an atheist. And i could say i can't take folks seriously who believe in god and haven't thought about their world view at all. So... now we have a problem. I clearly thought about my world view and i assume you did too. So why shouldn't we take each other seriously? You can only evolve through a conversation if you are open to other opinions. If you're not, than you will stick to your current opinion, no matter how good the arguments of the other persons are. So... taking it not seriously should be the last thing to do. Ever.
hey guys, I just saw them live performing this song and then right nexto to it Ghost Love Score and it was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. Funny thing is that during Greatest Show On Earth i said to myself that Vin and Sori would love to be here. It was an awesome show. Greetings from argentina
Im very much an atheist and every one i know is an atheist. Where i live there is very little religion and most people are atheist, at school they teached us that religion is nonsense and that religion is only "fantasy stories". So, just as you dont get how atheists think or dont understand our way to think about life, I dont understand at all how anyone could believe in a god or something with a "higher power". To me it seems ridiculous and everyone i know just think of religion as a really ancient way to describe fenomenon that they could not wrap their head around back before science was a known thing. I do still accept your way of thinking though as your way of thinking do not, in any way, impact my life at all. As long as everyone is happy with their beliefs and doesnt call out or actively try to make the life worse for anyone that thinks differently everyone can have their believes in my book.
Its not so much the fact that its important to not make life harder for people as much as its the fact that everyone have the right to have their own beliefs. We can definitely argue with each other about religion, i have no problem with that. Im talking more about acting against someone with violence based on someones beliefs. Probably phrased if weird, sorry about that.
@@VinAndSori Rights come from people long ago that together came up with some "rights" that would keep the world a better place to as many people as possible. I dont see how it has anything to do with this.
Sori is correct. Lucy is one of the no longer missing links between humans and the distant ancestor we share with other modern apes. Lucy was not Homo sapien, she was Australopithecus afarensis. Also known as Dinkinesh in the Amharic language of Ethiopia where her remains were found. Dinkinesh means "you are marvellous.”
But Vin you decide to draw the line at our universe. Why? Let´s go further. What is the ultimate purpose of God? Is he a part of the universe? Is he outside the universe? Did he exist for a near infinite amount of time before creating the universe? Did he create it a millisecond after he came into existence? 10 minutes? 100 years? All of those questions can be boiled down to a single question: Does God have a God and ultimate purpose? Everything you say about our universe can be taken one step further and applied to God.
My biggest argument with Vin here is that he must have either one way or the other. There is a way that they can believe both things. Two opposite things can, and will be thought of by the nature of the mind. We need to stop dividing our minds and ourselves. Its like saying you cant be a collectivist in a individualist at the same time... which is false. We can 'think' the universe is pitiless and cold, but still feel awe at our vast luck of being here, and put it in proper perspective. Nuance. Nuance is the biggest missing concept in our society today, in my honest opinion.
PLEASEEE react to: Dark Tranquility - Lost to apathy or Misery's crown Avantasia - The scarecrow Sonata Arctica - Don't say a word or Black Oceans, White Pearl Sabaton - Primo Victoria And Bathory - enter the eternal fire and the lake (so you can see their both eras)
We are not Gods chosen ones. We are not gods gift. We were not created. We did not come from a god. We may be intelligent. We may seem like we are more important. We may think we matter. But, we are lucky to have survived this long. Life, is what this song celebrates.
Vin just believe a silly story that a creator or a man called god is True. No one is sitting in heaven and watching eart. When you die, thats that. Period
And before I forget, In 2000 years if the eart still exists then maybe the mankind Will go and believe the book of dawkins and think he is the creator or god because its In the book with hard top
Ok, I must admit Vin's views almost persuaded me to unsub at this one, until I considered the possibility I may have simply misunderstood. There is nothing special about the human race that places us above any living creature. We are all just as valued or just as insignificant depending on your perspective. Regardless of respective, however, the message is that we WERE here. However insignificant we've been given the gift of life which many have missed out on often due to nothing more than circumstance. We were here when many were not and we're still here and we should treasure that. One of my biggest issues with religion is the preaching of an unproven afterlife just to ease the fears of those passing on. It's ok to be afraid. We all fear the unknown. However, by focusing on our next life which might never come we undervalue that which we DO have. Our actual life! The gift of waking up in the morning and still being here. Even more so if we have somebody to share that experience with but even if not we still HAVE life. We still get to exist on this earth for one day more. I hold no delusions of what may or may not come. This helps me appreciate what I have right here and right now. The gift of life. How lucky that makes me and all of us. ...wow...I ran with that one for a while but I think I communicated what I got from it all.
There ARE things that set us above other beings on earth. 1- Belief and display of belief in a Higher Power. 2- Purposefully cooking our food, especially Proteins. 3- Sexuality for entertainment. 4- Music for entertainment. 5- Conservation. Other than these things, Primates in general are nearly useless to the earth. Anything Primates do, other animals (especially insects) do it better.
Actually, I'm pretty sure all 5 of those points are useless to the earth, which is an odd criteria to have as setting one lifeform over another IMO. We are unique in those things, sure (with numbers 3 and 5 being questionable depending on how strictly you define them), but ALL living beings are unique in some way or another, so again, we have no reason to point to our uniqueness, not matter how proud we may be of ourselves, and say we are intrinsically, objectively above or more important or more valuable than any other living beings on this planet. Truth be told, from a "useless/useful to the earth" perspective, humanity has done far more to damage the earth than any other living being, right? Also, I always love how the monotheists represent general theism to slant in their favor, e.g., defining "a Higher Power" instead of "Higher Powers." Polytheists do exist, too. (And I disagree with them, too.)
@@blackdragonburn470 If you do not "believe in something unproven", even more so we are the only beings that practice 3-5. Every sound animals and insects make has a purpose. Communication or Location of pray. If you put a wolf on an island with 20 goats, within 1 year the goats will be dead and the wolf will have starved to death. During the Age of Sail, the British, Dutch and Spanish put various animals (usually goats, pigs and chickens) on every island and strip of land. Not only as a source of future food but those animals would lead future sailors to water.
@@michaelvondrake7489 Sorry, but there are a ton of things other lifeforms can do that we can't so it's just your opinion that these are of greater value than what they have. Personally I'd love to be able to grow back limbs like a salamander. Definitely a lot more useful than believing in a higher power.
@@davemason4055 Something of value. Sure, many can fly or digest things we cannot. But the 5 things we can do, leads to Who and What we are. The things Humanity can do are unique to our species.
Just figured I'd throw this out there since on multiple instances you suggested that this song follows the structure of Avenged Sevenfold's song Exist. This song was released over a year prior to Avenged Sevenfold's so if anything they followed the structure of this song.
Eh. As time goes on and science matures, all of our currently held "theories" will be dismantled I believe. We are but infants in science, barely scratching the surface of all that actually exists in the cosmos, physically, and spiritually.
We're part of the cosmos and as humanity we make our own meaning, that's the message of the song, something that many theists can never understand or feel. We are important because we're not slaves of fear of an original sin or a fake God. "We were here" is something we will tell in the distant future when we'll finally leave our planet or when we'll be near our extinction. We were part of nature and the universe, we were here and witnessed evolution of our world and that's important by itself! I'm sure maybe Vin and certainly Sori understood this and for a moment they were captured by this feeling! They wanted to be part of the actual cosmos and not slaves to their fantasy fears. Oh well, we'll get them next time!
You all feel that you are a priori sinful and that you have to follow a certain dogma to get rid of that original sin. Then you feel fear when logic kicks in sometimes, but you're so caught up to that idea that you're afraid to escape from it. It's fear of being free of bonds. Original sin creates that fearful bond, it's the basis of christianity as I see it
Nah the doctrine of original sin is one of the most obvious doctrines to me in Christianity, and it carries a ton of utility in the world. I don’t know what you’re talking about honestly
Any Christian building their faith/life on The fear of Hell Will Have their faith/life broken. Because fear is not of Jesus as you can see from his life. You can't build on fear, The fear Will only become greater until it brakes you. No being born again and Been made a new creation is being free from fear according to The Bible and i can testify to that from My own Life. I was prayed for and was Set free instantly from over 10 years of depression, anxiety and panic attacks and now im completely free from literal fear that enslaved me. Now im free and totally healed from those diseases. If Jesus wanted us to Be in fear or to rule me/us through fear why would he heal me of it? And why would his word speak of being Set free from fears all The Time. I didn't become a Christian because of The fear of Hell, i became a Christian because of the immense love that i was overwhelmed by when Jesus Set me free and i became a new creation, and The truth of his word which his Power confirmed. As The Bible says God is Love and The goal of our instruction (that is The Bible) is Love, so that we become love like our Father. I used to in my teenage years Be Driven by The fear of Hell but that never made free nor did instill love in me. Never did it Make me want to know God more and never did it change me to become christlike, because it couldnt. Only made me More self focused which again goes against The teaching of Jesus. Which is "If any man wants to follow he must FIRST deny himself then pick up his Cross and follow me". It wasnt until i was wrecked by Christs love and understood that love that i was Set free from me and became a new creation. And now i want to become christlike, now i want to Be love as he IS Love. And now i can become love, so that i can love God and love people. This is what Jesus does to a believer If he surrenders and doesnt hold on to his former self, fear doesnt work nor belong in The Christian life. So whenever someone preaches The fear of Hell instead of Jesus he is in The wrong, for fear is not The fruit of God. For why would a God fear or Have need of fear he IS God. No he wants us to love for he IS Love that is what i Have come to understand.
*(Long af)* Edit: a7x's song came out after this one. I watched again (I couldn't sleep) And I just wanted to thank you guys once more for doing this for the Ocean Souls who relentlessly requested this song. You both hit on points that I think were in line to what Tuomas *wanted* to convey. His music is brilliant. He's often times heard every piece of the music (vocals in mind as well) in its entirety, written it out in some form and presented to the band and the Orchestra they record with (they typically work with him to fine tune things) and with Endless Forms Most Beautiful (album) is pretty much what I personally consider a concept album in some ways due to the fact that the last song on it is Greatest Show on Earth and the songs leading up to it also paint a story. Tuomas himself stated The album is written with the intent that one must sit down from start to finish. ( I took it as his way if saying you should, in order to really and truly give you a grand build up to his Magnum Opus ) Edit: it seems like since Troy joined Nightwish, Tuomas is thinking more on the plane of agnostic or athiest. The album itself Tuomas at one point felt was the last story Nightwish had left to tell, because after writing it he felt empty. (He's known for being dramatic of course- but he's got a good heart and means well, I think ) It was after he went and worked on his other band, Auri, with his wife Johanna and Uliean pipe player Troy, that his creativity came torrenting back and inspired more Nightwish which has said to have (last I heard) 80% already written and will be recorded in summer to be released in 2020ish with a massive tour to follow, so I feel like this is even bigger than E.F.M.B. Seeing this song live, in person, is beyond the most emotional and intense experience ever. Hearing all these voices singing along in unison, in anticipation... Its magical. There's nothing quite like a nightwish show. I stated before that tuomas often is running up to 5 background tracks on his keyboard. Marco, on bass who sang with Floor here, also plays guitar. He's in another band Tarot that's been around for as long or longer than nightwish. Emppu is the guitarist. He uses a LOT of downstroking in his chunky sounding guitar riffs, which as most know is hard to do well as fast as he does. He's such a little firecracker Kai is a fill in (Wintersun) for Jukka who has been ill. You know about Floor, the Flying Dutchwoman (aka Xena) I'm glad you enjoyed it as much as you did. I seriously think you should listen to the album its on or listen to the Decades disk I sent you. You might find it a lot more interesting the deeper you go into the history of the band. Its amazing to me that they all remain so humble still. They all radiated kindness when I met them and were very patient with more nervous fans. They're very special. You can't understand until you see them live for yourself, or dig deep into the back catalogue, I think. *shout out to the Village* All of you. 💜
Pony, you explained things alot better than I could. There are PLENTY of great bands out there. Quite a few that I like more than NIGHTWISH but in all of that, there really is Nothing like NIGHTWISH. Some bands play similar music. Sometimes faster. Never better that I have witnessed as of yet. And faster does not often translate into better.
I came back randomly because of course I think Vin misses the point . Yes, there's a part stating humans have a lust to feel exceptional, but I think the point is missed; Sori however caught it. You hear Dawkins reading from his book, stating how incredible the odds are that we are born, you also hear the story of humankind (which includes humankind and our desire to dominate) Basically you're on a journey through humankind, our desire for greatness and our desire to progress no matter the cost yet we need the reminder that we're special.
Vin is such an interesting guy. I feel like I would enjoy having a philosophical discussion with him over a bottle of wine. I mean I fundamentally disagree with him, but that's why he is interesting, he raises some interesting points sometimes. I always find it good to listening to someone with opposing views to your own, in that way you can either adjust your views or have them being more robust.
I, also, can't stand white wine. My favorite wine was always the Port wine they used at my Episcopal Church I grew up in. Everyone hated it, but I loved it.
This song is about the celebration of life on this planet. It has nothing to do with religion or atheism. I think religious people and atheist people can agree with one of the songs lyrics where it talks about a common ancestor. Atheists think its some organism we are descendent from and religious people think its some deity but the common ground is both groups believe we came from someone or something. Lets all celebrate this song for its brilliance in depicting life and how lucky we are to have it .
This song never denies God. Talking about Gods blueprints doesn't preclude God. There is plenty of spiritual metaphors hidden throughout the song. I'm still looking for what 'this view of the world' is Vin, as it seems to be very spiritual to me. I mean, they have the Golden Ratio shells lying across a guitar thread ( ie the direct correlation between the numbers and the vibrations in music ) They even use mythological language to describe the forming of the planet!
Dawkins himself does not deny the existence of God/gods. He simply states that they and EXTREMELY unlikely to exist. To add to this, the chances that one particular interpretation of who/what God is and what their intentions are, is all the more unlikely. So unlikely that it is not really worth his time until convincing evidence of God's existence presents itself. This is my interpretation of the statements in his book anyway, so I agree that the song does not deny the existence of God. And yes it uses language like: "we are here to care for the garden", but Vin&Sori don't seem to catch on to this.
@@pixieburicescu6295 I think it would be scientifically impossible to say for certain that god doesn't exist because we can't prove that he doesn't. But then again, we can't prove that Santa Claus doesn't exist either.
@@joshbeaton3239 proving non existence is illogical. To claim something exists places the burden of proof on that person. I can sit here and claim that anything exists, and that it must since you can't disprove it. However, the burden of proof is placed upon me to support my claim that it does. Scientific theories are rooted in fact, and many of them have been proven in many ways, but can't be law due to the inability to test certain aspects. We have proven many parts of Einstein's theory of relativity. Our communications wouldn't work without adjustments based on relative equations. However, there are extreme cases, such as a black hole, that we simply can not test. That leaves it open as a theory. Micro evolution has been proven many times over. Macro evolution can't be due to the times involved, but we can form a strong theory suggesting the patterns of micro evolution will continue over those periods of time leading to macro evolution. The fossil record also supports it.
I've seen Nightwish three times in much smaller venues and they were just as epic in those smaller venues. They're truly fantastic. Now for my request... My Dying Bride - Like a perpetual funeral
Vin, it's important to US that we were here. They're celebrating humanity, evolution and the universe and the accomplishment that we're here; which does not if you're an atheist have anything to do with a god necessarily. Of course one can not prove the non existance of a god, but whether or not you're an atheist or religious we're all still humans and can appreciate the universe and that we get to participate in it. As an atheist myself I am constantly amazed and by the beauty of life and the world around us. Doesn't mean that I have to believe in a god; to me it's even more likely that we're in a simulation, but that in itself would be an amazing revelation and absolutely astonishing and lovely in its own right. Nightwish are finnish, I'm from Sweden myself but while us from the nordics are generally atheist we're still just the same as you, we appreciate what we've been given and how lucky we were to get here, even if it wasn't a god ;). Personally I think it's a lot more exceptional to accept that we just don't know if there is a God or not (certainly isn't any proof of it) and still fight on with the belief in humanity and ourselves, accepting our lust for being exceptional and fighting to make it a reality every day, rather than just pretend we know there's some cosmological being watching over us and that his creating us makes us exceptional. Edit: I want to add to this that I can understand your view of atheism inevitably leading to nihilism. I think it's something that can be struggled with, but even religious people struggle with finding meaning sometimes. I think everyone needs to find their own meaning in life, for you god may fill that emptiness, but for me that never could fulfill it as I believe what I believe no matter what I WANT to believe. I find meaning in myself, in love and in humanity. What I want is for humanity to believe in each other, rather than a god. Merry christmas and happy new year to you guys!
I have seen some of your videos, and I couldn't help to subscribe to your channel after seeing this one. You two are amazing at this. Thank you! Keep em' coming!
Richard Dawkins book, "the greatest show on earth", best book ive ever read. Which you hear dawkins voice about 8min in, and periodically throught the performance and ending.
More Nightwish please! - 7 days to the wolf. Live at Wembley - Yours is empty hope. Live at Wembley - Shudder before the Beautiful. Live at Wembley - My walden. Live at Wembley - Storytime. Live at Wembley - I want my tears back. Live at Wembley
At the very least this reminds me why I don’t watch the entire react videos when Vin is involved. He doesn’t care to understand any viewpoint beyond his own perspective.
Hey, thanks for this reaction! I'm so glad you liked it AND it made you think and discuss about what it made you feel. Much appreciated. Keep up the good work!
Of course a song inspired by evolutionary biology aka scientifically proven fact was gonna trigger a Christian haha. Great reaction though. Love Floors quiet and classical parts. As for the indifference/beautiful reality thing I do agree with Dawkins. For example I love sitting at a fireside, the flames and warmth and life surrounding it is beautiful but it doesn't mean anything. It just is.
The song is about celebrating life itself, and trying to show that science can be beautiful in its explanations as well. Some things I'd like to point out: 1) They're saying all life is exceptional because it's... well, alive, thus celebrating that "we were here", but it doesn't mean humans are exceptional compared to all other life. But we do have the lust to be. Personally I feel humans generally think they're much more impressive in comparison to other life than they actually are. Doesn't mean I don't think we're still impressive along with all other life. 2) I think "biological holy" in this case means something grander and greater than us; something we have no control over and we would be in awe of, not holy as in the actual original, religious meaning of the word. Though they were probably also aware of the irony. 3) I don't think there can't be nobility if you think everything is objectively meaningless. Just because ultimately everything is meaningless, doesn't mean there aren't small things in life and your experience of it itself that are meaningful towards other life. Human beings can't comprehend living in the mindset of "ultimately" anyway, so there's no use, but that still doesn't mean we can't believe that's the case even if we can't understand and live according to it. In fact, there are religions out there that, in ways, are all about if you do manage to live as if nothing ultimately has meaning, then that *is* your true salvation. 4) Humans created idolatry, period. It's not saying every religion is idolatry compared to science, but that humans created religions so they also created idolatry. It's basically the same if they said humans invented talking and thus verbally debating each other. 5) The song isn't saying humans understand but a single grain of sand compared to everything that's out there. It's saying we DON'T even understand a single grain of sand ("had a *dream* to understand"), and what its meaning is, and we probably never will, but we would like to. It's saying humans don't understand the meaning of existence itself, but here we are anyway. I don't particularly believe the things discussed here one way or another. I personally lean towards thinking we'll probably never truly know the answer to these things, so I'd rather not pick sides. I just felt like pointing those few things out, cause for as much as Vin always points out gaps and mistakes in the messages of the songs, his arguments many times (especially when he hasn't gotten the core of the point) have just as many in return.
Vin, damn right you're triggering me! Look at you, laughing there about how stupid and OBVIOUSLY contradictory atheistic worldview is, but isn't that what you think (and I partially agree) atheist do? Maybe we should hold our high horses, and just have conversation.
What he is saying is Theists will usually be (or forever should be) open minded to believe something else is possible. Someone elses point of view probably fits in our befief system. Atheists have a an even more strict denial system than the most ardent Theists Belief System. Usually saying we are wrong just because we believe. Yet we are Evolutionally Created to be the Only beings Capable of a Belief System.
Building your worldview on ignorance is much more open for revision than a worldview built on dogmatic beliefs. Dogma comes about naturally to us, but it's hard to shake off in the face of new evidence, especially when you have built your whole identity on top of it, and are emotionally invested in it. On the other hand, ignorance is hard to accept initially, it's bleak and meaningless, but it makes learning new stuff much easier, even when you discover a deity. Nobody's free of dogma though, I'm not for sure.
@@niilaheikki I had actually walked away from Religion for a while. But after 5 years, I still felt empty. It wasn't until someone started falsely accusing the faith I was baptized in that I found myself defending it. Than another set of gross accusations came along and I found my Faith again. Without Faith I felt empty. In Faith I felt full.
No, to ignore is not the same as ignorance. It's not that I want to be in ignorance, but I'd rather be ignorant than believe in something without satisfying reason. I'm free to hear what you have to say, I'm free to try myself if I want to. I'm glad you your faith makes you happy and full, no doubt it would make me feel good as well in some ways, as it has in the past, but that's not the way I judge what is true. Sometimes truth can be disappointing and cold, and I don't want to overlook that because of how I feel about it. To me, it's entirely possible that there is no god, other than what we make it to be. It's really possible that there is no meaning for our existence other that what we make it to be. It's possible, and I don't wan't to rule that out because it doesn't feel good.
I can't believe someone did a rock odyssey based on Dawkin's "Greatest Show on Earth" I am a proud owner of a first edition hardback copy :) All 470 pages of it. It's a great book - but I'm still surprised that someone turned it into a terrific 20 minute prog rock song. In the Wembley concert, Dawkins himself came onto the stage at the end and recited the last words of "On the Origin of Species". And ... We Were Here! Cuddles for everybody! :)
Humanity created language. I don't understand your argument here. We have always created our own concepts and meanings. We are continuing to do so to this day. ~54 min mark
You should check out their live performance of Planet Hell with their original female vocalist Tarja. Another awesome live performance video you should check out is Lacuna Coil-Blood, Tears, Dust
Tarja is great. I love her. She was groundbreaking. But she became a one-trick pony. Her husband and manager only made things worse. How can he think to demand Tarja gets 50% of the income when she doesn't write the music and only wrote lyrics to 2 songs that Tuomas finished.
I've seen Nightwish 9 times, 8 of them with Tarja. Not one damn gig where she didn't sing off note. The first gig I enjoyed was with Anette and I didn't even like her. I haven't had the luxury to witness Floor's singing yet.
This was absolutely incredible, such passion for the craft. There were a lot of riffs clearly inspired by Megadeth and on 5 second Metallica bit..but omg, this was amazing INCREDIBLE!!! Those spoken, recited lines in the background are so fucking deep and have struck me deeply..
I see that "We were here" as something like... Of all the moments you could've been born, like a thousand years ago or maybe a thousand years from now, you are HERE and NOW. In this exact moment of the existence you are alive and all of your choices have led you to being here, now, with us, and that's freaking amazing!
This is the most intelligent response I have seen to this song. No one can feel the beauty of humanity shouting "we were here!" together and accept the idea that we will pass away forever, without meaning or purpose. No one feeling the emotions of this songs feels that we are finite. It is self-deception. The truth that this song shows our hearts is the same as the objective truth of reality: That we were here, and we are here, and we shall forever be here.
love this song lots of talent in this band you should do more nightwish like ROMANTICIDE live from wacken open air 2013 great time hanging out with you two!
Just discovered the channel. Thank you for all the reviews. The three epics of Nightwish make me very happy every time I hear them. (Ghost Love Score, Poet and the Pendulum and the above song.) Very glad to have found this.
This guy got so triggered. It's not science=atheism, the fact that we're not able to explain Space-Time to the core, or how it's theoretically possible to break physics in the macro and micro scheme and many other unexplainable phenomena is just so humbling that I might as well have a superior force creating the whole of this universe AND accept it. Sticking to a sacred book Is not universal as not all belief systems are universal.
What I found most absurd about the backlash against this song from some religious people is their constant adherance to rather outdated views. I don't get why it's so hard to accept this song and its message, which is, imho, positive and doesn't throw a punch against any - pardon my casual language - sensible religious belief. You know - we're here. We don't had any purpose or meaning being here. But we made one ourselves, we're still here and left our mark striving for a better life. Science - physics, astronomy nor biology - does not discuss the possibility or impossibility of a creator but is only concerned with explaining the world through observations, continuous self-testing and logical deduction. *These subjects are godless. Intentionally!* Anyone who infers to science to prove or disprove god is at least highly untrustworthy and most certainly wrong. But I also don't see any solace nor humanity, ethics or decency in the forementioned scientific method which is why ethics, philosophy and religion always had and will have their place in this world: to give meaning to our existance. One does not work without the other imo. Which is why I simply can't fathom how one could force anybody to nigh exclusively subscribe to one or the other. Afterall many scientists in human history were religious or had some sort of belief. The same way the overwhelming majority of religious people don't stay away from technology. Then again there's always been and will always be stupid people on either side; any world view. Well that went really off-topic. This all could be a cultural thing. I gotta say I really really don't get this whole orthodox shtick especially Americans proudly proclaim - maybe they're only the loudest or the ones I most often hear from here in europe. What I really wanted to say: It's interesting to hear your thoughts on it. Your reactions usually go a bit to far in terms of religion and philosophy for me personally; but it's certainly well received.
I happened to this reaction channel by chance. I noticed that there are to date 1500 comments, well done you two! I have read but a fraction of the comments. I have listened and watched this music over and over again. I enjoy it immensely, even though I believe in Creator and in creation. The more I watch it the more I rejoice in God and I am blown away by the talent on stage. Instead of confirming me of evolution it confirms me of the opposite.
![Nightwish - The Greatest Show on Earth [Live at Tampere 2015] ( REACTION | LYRICAL BREAKDOWN )](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rctBerC7rH8/mqdefault.jpg)
“It’s a strange myth that atheists have nothing to live for. It’s the opposite. We have nothing to die for. We have everything to live for.”
― Ricky Gervais
Man this had me thinking for a while
Ya, but none of that living matters when you're gone, if you don't believe in an afterlife
@@jhamilton1007 ..that is very weird way to look at it... why something that has no proof of it would be more important than this life that you are living? Why live for dying? Wake up :)
Jay Hamilton it does matter because when we reach the day and are on our death you can be happy that we lived the best possible life and had the opportunity to experience what this life had to offer sadly many more didn’t get that chance, so we do have everything to live for because we want to be able to die happily and know it was worth this life.
@@supernaturalarch666 My point was, that we can't take anything we accomplished or gained physically into the afterlife. The only thing we'll take is the experience and wisdom.
Vin you missed the point entirely. It isn't that humankind has an inherent value, it's the monumental accomplishment of simply existing. It's the whole reason people believe in God to begin with. The very presence of life itself is unfathomably unbelievable when you consider the odds, by nearly every law of the universe, we shouldn't even exist, but due to an infinite number of random happenstance, we do, which is absolutely mind breaking to consider, the deeper you think into it, the more absurd the concept seems. This is how the concept of divine creation is formed, it's much easier to believe an omnipotent being is the architect to our grand design, than to conceive the miracle of life. It is the understanding of how impossible the odds were that you, the individual could be born, and the accomplishments of your life that awakens your mind to how easily you could not have been, which is supposed to inspire you to make the most of your life, and simply appreciate your life. It is such a complex and intricate concept that most people cannot grasp it, or choose not to.
Absolutely nailed it!
beautifully put and so right. i happen to think there is some 'force' that is guiding this and its felt through everything like the gaia hypothesis, but oh so much more :)
The thing is the whole concept of randomness of human evolution and existence fights against his christian beliefs and values. It is no wonder he can't grasp the meaning of miracle of existense.
well. the presence of life is unfathomably unbelievable at our scale. but at the scale of the universe it is not that unbelievable.
Wow! Second person on this feed I'll say this to "if our paths ever cross I'll buy you a beer". Great comment 👍😁
I was an atheist but this video has convinced me that there is a God........And her name is Floor
Lol welp.... that’s closer I suppose Hahahaha !!
Tom Green I would say Tuomas, he wrote the song..
All of humanity was leading up to the birth of Floor. 😉. All hail the goddes😁
@@Piia2023 Tuomas is a man of faith. But he has an open mind. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that...
@Non Believer Its failings in human nature that you point out. Not "Religion". To error is human. Religion is like a star in the night sky. It is there. How we each see it is how we perceive it. Some will say "it's a red star". Others will say "it's a blue star". Yet in fact, from this distance nobody can actually see what color it actually is with the naked eye. The star hasn't changed enough to notice. How we see it has.
Vin, its not because we are exceptional, its because we are lucky.
Right? Our species has literally existed on this planet within the blink of an eye. We're still newcomers compared to how long the dinosaurs roamed the earth.
Within this vast universe (multiverse?), life is the exception, not the rule. Hence, every living organism is exceptional. We are conscious of that, and this consciousness is, I think, our blessing or our curse.
"Life is the exception" . how do you know that ?
We are Blessed.
Do the math: Factor the entire planets, asteroids, satellites, and all the galactic bodies that are ("places" for short), with the known "places" that actually have complex living organisms (as fas as we know).
"We were here" doesn't emphasize the "we", but the "here". It means we have been lucky to be here. In fact the songs isn't complete. In the studio version, eventually Humankind disappears and we only hear the seawaves and the sounds from some animals. Earth without people. It's like the second dawn.
OMG !!! Translated the whole song: lyrics are in " ":
"Archaean horizon, The first sunrise"
Earth's history is divided into four principal Eons: the Hadean, the Archean, Proterozoic, and the Phanerozoic. The Hadean is the Eon during which the Earth and Moon formed; in the Archaean, primordial life appeared. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Earth)
"On a pristine gaea"
Gaia is the primordial Greek goddess of the Earth. More recently, the Gaia hypothesis is a recognition of the living and nonliving Earth systems which form an interdependent whole. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia)
"Opus perfectum, Somewhere there, us sleeping" Pristine perfection (of silence, of a blank page, of the very point from which the big bang itself sprung) implies a rich creative potential. Here Earth is painted in the same powerful way. Diversity awaits; unborn beings are sleeping the same sleep to which they will return at death. This interpretation is thematically linked with the album's opening track, "Shudder before the Beautiful," which includes the lyrics, "The music of this awe, Deep silence between the notes, Deafens me with endless love." Or as the furious hobbit screamed at the novice trumpeter, "An artist respects the silence, it serves as the foundation of creativity." (th-cam.com/video/9E62iA6KCIQ/w-d-xo.html)
[Part 2: Life]
"The cosmic law of gravity Pulled the newborns around a fire, A careless cold infinity in every vast direction. Lonely farer in the Goldilocks zone"
Gravity pulls the Earth and its inhabitants around the energizing Sun in an otherwise inhospitable universe. Earth is the only planet in our solar system's circumstellar habitable zone, orbiting at the "just right, not too hot, not too cold" distance from the Sun. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstellar_habitable_zone)
"She has a tale to tell, From the stellar nursery into a carbon feast, Enter LUCA"
In astronomy, stellar nurseries are the birthplaces of stars: they nurse stars (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_formation#Stellar_nurseries). Poetically, our solar system is another "stellar nursery," in which a star is the nurse, caring for and warming a planet of 'newborns,' early carbon-based life. "Feast" evokes the incorporation of plentiful chemical building blocks into rudimentary life forms. "LUCA" stands for "Last universal common ancestor," the one single organism from which all other presently existing life on Earth descended. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_universal_ancestor)
"The tapestry of chemistry is a writing in the garden, Leading us to the mother of all"
The periodic table of elements does look like a sort of patchwork tapestry, but this can go further. The historical function of tapestries was as "nomadic murals," pictographical histories which moving people could pack up and revisit wherever they went. The "writing in the garden," in nature, is not only the stone murals left by dead animals in the form of fossils, but is also this chemical writing that encodes the relatively nomadic DNA molecule with the instructions for life. The scientific investigation of this information leads us back to LUCA, and further. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapestry#Function)
"We are one, We are a universe,"
This is the natural conclusion to draw from the fact that life shares common origin, that all life is built with the same blocks, and that all life on Earth is interdependent (gaia hypothesis). The multiplicity of beings on Earth are one, just as the cells in a body are one.
"Forebears of what will be Scions of the Devonian sea."
The Devonian geologic time period marked the first significant, rapid diversification of life (and the more well-known Cambrian explosion is another of these 'adaptive radiation' events). It was during the Devonian that the 'higher plants' appeared and blanketed the continents with forests. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devonian). The word "scion" refers to a shoot of a plant cut for grafting, and is also used to denote a descendent of a notable family. Both meanings apply.
"Aeons pass, Writing the tale of us all. A day-to-day new opening For the greatest show on Earth"
Evolutionary adaptation is written in the DNA and as fossils in the rocks, and is ongoing. Species die, diversifiy and delineate. Every day is different, every day something changes.
"Ion channels welcoming the outside world To the stuff of stars"
Ion channels are found in the membranes of all cells, controlling the flow of energy through the cells. The stuff of stars is all the physical matter we're made of. So it's the ion channels, guiding enery, which allow living bodies to interact with the rest of the world by exchanging energy with it. "Stuff of stars" is surely a Sagan reference: "The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff." (For fun: th-cam.com/video/XGK84Poeynk/w-d-xo.html)
"Bedding the tree of a biological holy, Enter life"
The bed of a tree is the nutrient-rich soil from which it grows, a soil made of dead things. The "tree of a biological holy" is probably the tree of life (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life). This line refers to the "holy" legendary tree of everlasting life but also means the conceptual, branching family tree of all life, whose bed consists of all deceased beings (in a more literal sense), or all extinct ancestral species (in a more abstract sense). This is thematically linked with the song "Alpenglow."
"We are here to care for the garden, The wonder of birth Of every form most beautiful"
"We" could be human beings tasked with acting as nature's stewards, garden of eden style, but that's not chronological -- human beings haven't quite appeared in the song yet. "We" could instead be all of life itself, in a gaia-philosophy sense, which posits that life creates environments ever more hospitable to more life. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_philosophy) Or maybe it's a combination of these two thoughts: life eventually creates an environment suitable for the development of consiously acting, thinking human stewards.
[Part 3: The Toolmaker]
"After a billion years, The show is still here. Not a single one of your fathers died young."
Every single one of a given person's ancestors, male and female, lived past puberty at least. But "fathers" evokes "forefathers," which has a nicer storytelling ring to it than "parents."
"The handy travelers Out of Africa Little Lucy of the Afar"
Handymen are good with tools; travelers posessing hands rather than forefeet walk upright. Hominids originated in Africa and spread to the rest of the world from there. Lucy is a particular specimen of the Australopithecus, one of many "missing links" between modern humans and nonhuman ancestors. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_(Australopithecus))
"Gave birth to fantasy, To idolatry, To self-destructive weaponry. Enter the God of gaps Deep within the past. Atavistic dread of the hunted!"
The brain grows, consciousness and creativity along with it. Atavism is the tendency to revert to ancestral type, an evolutionary throwback. Fight-or-flight instincts that helped human ancestors survive have now been creatively projected onto the world to both explain it (origins, meaning, suffering) and gain security in it (bargaining through sacrifice). These are the roots of theism. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atavism)
"Enter Ionia, the cradle of thought, The architecture of understanding. The human lust to feel so exceptional, To rule the Earth"
Nomadic people develop agriculture and settle down into civilizations. The word "architecture" is at once both literal and figurative. The efficiency of civilization graces people with free time to do more than just feed themselves. They develop rich cultural traditions, arts and philosophies, much of which are deeply influenced by how different humans now are from all the rest of life.
"Hunger for shiny rocks, For giant mushroom clouds, The will to do as you'd be done by."
Shiny rocks are wealth: gold, precious stones, jewels, and later uranium which leads to the nuclear arms race. The golden rule -- "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" -- is a coin with a dark side: "an eye for an eye," revenge. This ensures the "MAD"ness of mutually assured destruction. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction)
"Enter history, the grand finale. Enter ratkind."
"Ratkind" comes from Richard Dawkins' book "The Ancestor's Tale." Dawkins imagines a post-apocalyptic world in which rodents feast on the remnants of humanity (and humanity's garbage). The rat population explodes, and then as they exhaust these resources they turn on one another for food. As a consequence of natural selection, the rats diverge into new carnivorous and herbivorous species, and perhaps, eventually, a specices of rodent whose intelligence rivals that of humans. This is "ratkind." (iberianature.com/wildworld/tag/ratkind/)
"Man, he took his time in the sun, Had a dream to understand A single grain of sand."
From William Blake: "To see a World in a Grain of Sand, And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour." ...And the story of the planet in 24 minutes. Not bad.
"He gave birth to poetry, But one day'll cease to be. Greet the last light of the library"
A bittersweet redundancy: poetry with library, the last light with ceasing to be. Reminiscent of Elan: "Be the first to greet the morn [...] Travel with great élan, dance a jig at the funeral."
"We were here!"
Who else is going to vote for this song's inclusion on the next Voyager golden record, if there'll ever be one?
I want to beam this song into space forever.
Beast literal breakdown comment I've ever seen!
I must reward you somehow ... email us, VinAndSori@gmail.com
@@VinAndSori SERIOUSLY HE MUST HAVE GOT IT FROM TUOMAS' HEAD!
Kudos for knowing Elan reference!!! (Also a beautiful song)
@@VinAndSori Did it..
Well, this is really something! It's a present! Thank you! @liro Mäittälä
Life itself is the greatest show on earth. Mankind just makes up a tiny portion of life's evolution and will one day cease to be. But earth and the universe were there before mankind and will still be there when mankind is gone. The greatest show will go on. 'We were here' refers to being proud of having been a part of something bigger even if it was just a small part.
The part with the cars that you didn't like refers to mankind exploiting and polluting the world and in the end working towards the end of mankind as part of this world, see also the text lines "Hunger for shiny rocks, for giant mushroom clouds" or "Gave birth to fantasy, To idolatry, To self-destructive weaponry"
This song is a celebration of life, having the capability to experience this world we call home and the natural process of evolution we share with with our closest relative amongst the animal kingdom, with all animals actually. To be able to explore these facts and experience these things. There truly is grandeur in this view of life without needing extra baggage to either try to explain it away, or to add to it for fulfillment.
This!
Be Sure to appreciate the Collateral Beauty, I had to say that from that movie.
But...but...god!
I feel like i'm part of the universe, we are all made of the same stuff, i don't need to feel that a god made me in her image to feel special
absolutely
Ana198 so you mean nothing since you’re no different than a big or bacteria. That makes sense
@@VanJR. In the big picture yes. Evolution is the most incredible thing i have ever read about, i find it much more inspiring than any fairytail anyone ever came up with, i feel sad for people who let their faith keep them from learning about it
The Bible says "we are star Born in Eden created from ash, clay, ocean water and stardust. How would they have known that WAY back then?
@@Ana198 our faith doesn't keep us from learning anything. We put it in perspective of our faith. The Bible told us 90% of what science has proven. But as I have pointed out elsewhere, how could the people in the bible have possibly known that even just 2000 years ago not counting the 200,000 years of cave drawings showing a belief in a Higher Power...
I've been waiting for this since I first found your guys channel. This song is such an important song for me and every time I hear this song during the we were here my eyes always start tearing up. This song has changed my view on life and how to live. One of my all time favorite songs, thank you for finally doing it.
Oh man, first 5 min in the discussion a Vins favorite fallacy again. For atheist this life is the most valuable thing there is because there is NOTHING but now. Christians claim to dance on some cloud or whatever in the afterlife so this life is just one part. For non religious people it's the ONLY part. So saying human life is therefore not special because you don't believe in an invisible friend THAT is makes no sense whatsoever. If anything atheist treasure their existence more then anyone else because it''s all there is.
Songs like this are celebrating this. Yes atheists can be thankful to be alive also they are not infected by some mystery nihilistic indifference. Thank you ;)
Yea exactly, tbh I'm not an atheist but I totally get how life would be more treasured when it's all there is and it's so finite. The concept of eternity and the afterlife, while I often feel it to be reality, does lead me to a lot of nihilism when applied to the life here. Why does anything matter if there's just something else that'll last forever afterwards? To me if death doesn't matter, it's hard to say life does. To say that atheism can only be nihilistic or that theism can't be seems ridiculous to me. I get understand they have their own beliefs but I don't get why they can't understand this particular subject from other perspectives, especially when they do great at doing that for so many other subjects.
Some Atheists do. I have spoken to many who will say "we are just one of many organisms"... This planet doesn't need primates of any kind. Other animals do much its basic needs better than primates do. Most animals are stronger, faster, better equipped for this earth. We do a handful of things no other animals do.
1- The belief and display of belief in a Higher Power.
2- Purposefully cook food, especially proteins.
3- Sexuality for purely entertainment purposes.
4- Create music for purely entertainment purposes.
5- The concept of Conservation.
Human beings have a vicious need to believe in something greater then themselves, its the only thing that keeps us going. Now whether that thing is a god, or the "wonders of the universe", the end result is the same.... except for that religion gives you cause to do things for people other then yourself for no more reason then its the right thing to do, a vindication an atheist lifestyle can't justify. By its own logic the atheist lifestyle should be "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we may die". If there is nothing for you but the life you have, why would you do anything else that could potentially waste your precious little time here?
@@michaelvondrake7489 dolphines do have sex just for fun
Funny, by that logic, atheist are infected by the delusion of blindly believing in science as the ultimate truth. In other words, blind believers in a reality fabricated by the interests of others. You don't need religion to have faith, but the lack of faith leaves you empty and dependent of a reality created by speudoscience. Those who choose "modern science" as definitive truth, are easily deceived and manipulated by the people providing it.
Another thing, I don't understand how Dawkins's quote about pitiless universe undermines anything you pointed out. To me, conceiving the nihilistic nature of the universe and finding beauty and poetry in it, they go perfectly hand in hand. The wonder, beauty, poetry, understanding, awe etc, they are part of our human experience, the universe doesn't have to give a damn for it to have an impact on us.
Saw this band performing for 35 people in 90`s Very cool and humble guys. 🇫🇮
Low Bow where was this..
Pia Lindqvist Kiuruvesi , Finland
They were electronic music at that point and Marko had not yet joined the band, right?
Nightwish are a Finnish band. In May 2012 the Helsinki Times published a survey by the Church Research Institute revealing that fewer than 1 in 3 Finns believed in the Christian god and that 1 in 5 was an atheist. The UN produces a World Happiness Report that includes a list of the 10 happiest countries. Contributory factors to happiness are identified as: strong community support, a government that can be trusted and freedom for the population. The current number one, the happiest country in the world, is Finland. The USA does not make the list. Do you think Finland is plagued by nihilism? Newsflash! People do not reject moral principles or find themselves cast adrift on an ocean of pointlessness just because their minds do not allow them to accept supernatural claims as real world actuality. You seem disconcertingly unable to put yourself in their shoes. Your lack of ability of willingness to empathise does not make others nihilists.
Omg you guys are the greatest thank you so much nightwish forever!!!!
You don’t need god, a god, or any god to feel special, unique, or important. We were here. Yes, so was other organisms and they too have their place in the greatest show on earth.
Which of those organizm believes in a Higher Power? Only one.
Aaron A. Foster yes, the irrational organism
@@bomblade15 "Irrational" implies also "Rational". We are also the only being that purposely cooks food.
Aaron A. Foster my point was that animals don’t deal with rational and irrational concepts.
@@bomblade15 They absolutely do. Packs, Hives and other groupings have their own concepts of Rationality. Some things ONLY humans do are Purposefully cook food, purposely practice conservation and purposefully display belief in a Higher Power.
Yes, there is a history of music in it too: Bach, Mozart, disco and heavy rock (riff of Enter Sandman)
Something can be important to you personally, yet not important at all in the grand scheme of things.
Yay! A mention for The Flying Spaghetti Monster. He boiled for our sins. R'Amen ❤
R'Amen omg
Can I get a R'Amen!?!?!?
@@TheDarthSoldier R'Amen my brother 🍲
@@chrisknight8734 this shit had me wheezing
I am so glad you get the conceptualization of Nightwish. Tuomas's music and lyrics are amazing to me. I get such a spiritual feeling listening to some of Nightwish's songs. Their music has gotten me through so much. I am glad that I was alive to witness something so meaningful and beautiful.
😘💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜
Hi! my friend. You are the greatest. I really enjoyed this a lot. How are you? I am doing well.
@@fdsannie I'm well, thank you honey!! I was hoping to see you on the comments somewhere!!!
Glad you enjoyed it 😘😍💜💜💜💜 I thought it was a great breakdown!! I love Vin and Sori for that. Hands down BEST channel imo 💜 I hope you can catch the livestream of the Vehicle of Spirit DVD if they do it!!!
Me too!
Me Thr33 👍💀
Wow, you were criticizing Dawkins for using "poetic language" in his literature and then directly after started quoting the Bible, the highest form of "poetic language" in history...
The highest form? What? I like Baudelaire myself...
LoL. I was about to comment the same thing .
Atheists can appreciate the rarity of life for its own sake. Natural processes brought us into existence and we will each never be here again. Our lives have meaning because we each make meaning for ourselves. No cosmic puppetmaster needed.
My feelings exactly...
Believe me....they can understand this too
Vin's entire argument is a case of special pleading
39:01 "There is grandeur in this view of life..." That part until the end is Charles Darwin's closing statement from his book "On the Origin of Species"
Good call
The text is from the greatest show on earth by Richard Dawkins, don't blame him, he just tell the truth.
The point was that you should be happy that you got a life , is that not enough?
This entire album was a love letter to the universe, evolution, humanity, and the scientific process. They even made a song called "Sagan", as in the late, legendary Carl Sagan.
I'm so happy you took the time to review and analyze this song. It obviously is based on biology, chemistry, physics, and history. As such, it is predicted that the Earth will disappear some time in a million years. Thus, the fact that we, humans, feel so exceptional, is valid as long as we are here. We, humans, must understand our time is limited so fighting against each other is senseless at the end. We were here is a paradoxical statement because no one will be there to testify that we were here. As a partial conclusion I can say that existence is valuable because (i) all the physical laws of the universe make it so darn hard for life to exist, (ii) life is limited, and (iii) as far as we know, humans is the only species to be conscious about the former two points. Great work guys.
There are two spoken parts in this song, one at the beginning and one at the end, both by Richard Dawkins
They are:
Beginning-
"After sleeping through a hundred million centuries
We have finally opened our eyes on a sumptuous planet
Sparkling with color, bountiful with life
Within decades we must close our eyes again
Isn't it a noble, an enlightened way of spending our brief
Time in the sun, to work at understanding the universe
And how we have come to wake up in it?"
End (Two parts)-
"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Sahara. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here. We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?"
"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one. And that whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."
*Note* I posted before watching the whole video, so I don't know yet if it was touched upon, but I love Dawkins' contribution to this song.
The very last part is a Darwin quote.
@@ImberNoctis yep, indeed it is
There's few things Richard Dawkins is good at in my opinion and that atheism stuff is not included. a) Apparently he is a damn good biologist and b) the guy "invented" the concept of a meme back in 1976.
@@KaiMarcad that atheism stuff? 😅😅😅
Many people often do miss the point of this song. The Whole "We Were Here" part is basically a cry to those that would be the future, that at one point in time Humans existed.
Its basically the Genetic Lottery. Over 90% of the species ever to walk the earth are gone, that's something we all have to think about. All Periods of time, Ages that have passed, Creatures that once roamed all gone. Leaving us to forge ahead, and one day we will be gone. As well the Lions, Bears, Snakes, Butterfly's, Ants and even Cockroaches. Until all that remains is frozen Fungi & Protists.
So the part "We Were Here" is really an outcry to evolution that has pushed forward, leaving all those behind in its wake.
I truly love Dawkins outlook on creation. There are more bodies that would never exist that out number the sands of the sahara.
We all believe we were put here for a purpose, truth we could've easily been left on a napkin, or aborted, or been stillborn. And another truth is many of us were mistakes, some of us planned, many of us abandoned & unwanted.
So the fact that we are here instead of the Woolly Mammoth shows us that evolution takes what can't survive or evolve. And one day we will fall short of evolution, and thus life continues on for the next stage of evolution. The Circle of Life is a bitch, but a beautiful one.
Shudder Before the Beautiful
First Nightwish reaction where fans comments doesn't compare witch one is better singer Floor or Tarja :) now we have a real stuff to talk about :)
😂😂😂 truth bro
😁😅😂😅😁
but I think the dislikes are Tarjaholics 😌😬😬😬😬😬😬😬
@@The_Pony )kneeslap laughing( Yeah, even tho Tarja only wrote fractions of a couple of songs, some lyrics in Finish that Tuomas and Marco turned into songs (with Finish titles I don't dare try to spell). But Tarjaholics insist there's "no NIGHTWISH without Tarja..." phishah! As important as she WAS, she would still be singing Folk music in Helsinki if Tuomas hadn't asked her to join his project, NIGHTWISH
@@michaelvondrake7489 LOLLLLLLLLLL dammmmmnnnn apply ice to burn, Tarja 😌😂😂
The whole "We were here" point you were talking about. I think the point the song tries to make is that the fact we are here is already astonishing enough. We don't need to keep looking for reasons, or trying to feel exceptional. Animals don't know they are going to die, they just go along for the ride, never questioning purpose. Humans are unique in the fact that we are the only mortal animals. Every animal dies, but we are the ones smart enough to KNOW we are going to die. That knowledge often depresses us, makes us question the point of things etc. The "we were here" is a celebration of the fact you were even born to "care for the garden" and share in life. The fact that in an universal perspective we are not special does not diminish the experience to be here and comprehend that vastness.
At least that's how I see it.
NorthernLights ofDemons Beside the point. Other animals are aware that their lives can be taken by other animals prematurely. They however aren’t aware of their limited lifespan and that avoiding every danger in the world will still lead to their death.
Anyway.. THANK YOU for doing this!! Ive been waiting for you doing this so long.
Dang, that Richard Dawkins narration got Vin salty as hell
WE WERE HERE!
YAY finally I'm glad you guys reacted to this epic! I just wanted to comment on what Vin said about the "We were here" part and how it contradicts what came before since before it felt like we're not special in the great scheme of things, but now all of a sudden we are, to that I always say well that's exactly the point. That's what make us human, since we're conscious about all these things and the fact that we can create things like this and express our wonder is in itself part of the great journey of life on earth and evolution.
I find it amusing how Vin can't take seriously people talking about life, evolution, creation, etc in pure scientific terms or simply not involving God or religion. So you are obligated to believe in a higher power in order to be amazed at the Universe and wonder about our place in it and even express ourselves?? Come oon :/ Anyway we may think were more important than cockroaches because of our point of view, but I'm sure many people and scientists will agree that after we're long gone, little insignificant roaches will still roam the earth.
I can take anything seriously if it remains consistent with itself. Dawkins says there’s no good or evil and that everything is random in the quote. That’s consistent with the idea there is no god. That I take very seriously. Nietzche and russel. I take them very seriously? What I don’t take seriously are folks who claim athiesm and have t thought through their worldview at all
I guess "not taking seriously" was a the wrong choice of words. What I meant is why can't people, specially in this case Dawkins, wonder and be amazed by existence and the Universe and ourselves without involving God even if he thinks is random or meaningless in the end. In my view, one thing doesn't contradict the other, on the contrary like other commenter said below, when you take God out of the equation in many of these questions is even more amazing to find ourselves in our place looking at the Universe and how amazingly absurd and mind blowing is that we exists at all and that can we even think and talk about it is even more amazing and worth celebrating like in the song, that's probably why the concept of God was created in the first place. I just had a problem with the idea of not being able to recognize that there can also be grand expressions and celebrations of life without involving divine forces.
@@VinAndSori I'm an atheist. And i could say i can't take folks seriously who believe in god and haven't thought about their world view at all. So... now we have a problem. I clearly thought about my world view and i assume you did too. So why shouldn't we take each other seriously? You can only evolve through a conversation if you are open to other opinions. If you're not, than you will stick to your current opinion, no matter how good the arguments of the other persons are. So... taking it not seriously should be the last thing to do. Ever.
hey guys, I just saw them live performing this song and then right nexto to it Ghost Love Score and it was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. Funny thing is that during Greatest Show On Earth i said to myself that Vin and Sori would love to be here. It was an awesome show.
Greetings from argentina
Im very much an atheist and every one i know is an atheist. Where i live there is very little religion and most people are atheist, at school they teached us that religion is nonsense and that religion is only "fantasy stories". So, just as you dont get how atheists think or dont understand our way to think about life, I dont understand at all how anyone could believe in a god or something with a "higher power". To me it seems ridiculous and everyone i know just think of religion as a really ancient way to describe fenomenon that they could not wrap their head around back before science was a known thing.
I do still accept your way of thinking though as your way of thinking do not, in any way, impact my life at all. As long as everyone is happy with their beliefs and doesnt call out or actively try to make the life worse for anyone that thinks differently everyone can have their believes in my book.
Why is it important not to make life hard for people? There’s no right or wrong good or evil. Just blind pitiless indifference
Its not so much the fact that its important to not make life harder for people as much as its the fact that everyone have the right to have their own beliefs. We can definitely argue with each other about religion, i have no problem with that. Im talking more about acting against someone with violence based on someones beliefs. Probably phrased if weird, sorry about that.
We can still argue with eachother about religion but still accept and respect eachothers differences in beliefs
“Rights” ? Where do rights come from?
@@VinAndSori Rights come from people long ago that together came up with some "rights" that would keep the world a better place to as many people as possible. I dont see how it has anything to do with this.
Sori is correct. Lucy is one of the no longer missing links between humans and the distant ancestor we share with other modern apes. Lucy was not Homo sapien, she was Australopithecus afarensis. Also known as Dinkinesh in the Amharic language of Ethiopia where her remains were found. Dinkinesh means "you are marvellous.”
But Vin you decide to draw the line at our universe. Why? Let´s go further. What is the ultimate purpose of God? Is he a part of the universe? Is he outside the universe? Did he exist for a near infinite amount of time before creating the universe? Did he create it a millisecond after he came into existence? 10 minutes? 100 years? All of those questions can be boiled down to a single question: Does God have a God and ultimate purpose? Everything you say about our universe can be taken one step further and applied to God.
Nah. God is eternal and his purposes are self contained Bc he’s conscious. Both don’t apply to the universe
@@VinAndSori special pleading?
Vin at what point in his eternal existence did he decide to create the universe?
No idea
Time is a function of the physical properties of this universe.
For Those who wondering what genre Nightwish is: It is a vehicle of spirit that defines category.
💜💜 indeed! Lovely definition of the band. I was so happy to see the DVD title for the EFMB tour was called Vehicle if Spirit!
My biggest argument with Vin here is that he must have either one way or the other. There is a way that they can believe both things. Two opposite things can, and will be thought of by the nature of the mind. We need to stop dividing our minds and ourselves. Its like saying you cant be a collectivist in a individualist at the same time... which is false. We can 'think' the universe is pitiless and cold, but still feel awe at our vast luck of being here, and put it in proper perspective. Nuance. Nuance is the biggest missing concept in our society today, in my honest opinion.
Indeed, my friend, indeed.
PLEASEEE react to:
Dark Tranquility - Lost to apathy or Misery's crown
Avantasia - The scarecrow
Sonata Arctica - Don't say a word or Black Oceans, White Pearl
Sabaton - Primo Victoria
And Bathory - enter the eternal fire and the lake (so you can see their both eras)
yes, i second all of these!
We are not Gods chosen ones. We are not gods gift. We were not created. We did not come from a god.
We may be intelligent. We may seem like we are more important. We may think we matter.
But, we are lucky to have survived this long.
Life, is what this song celebrates.
Randomness and lies are not to be celebrated.
I knew this song would get Vin triggered. :D Thanks for the reaction.
Lol check the comments bruh. I’m not triggered
Vin liked the song (who wouldn't?) but tried to make the ideas of Dawkins sound ridiculous which didn't work.. :D
I didn’t think he was ridiculous. I just thought they were inconsistent
Vin just believe a silly story that a creator or a man called god is True. No one is sitting in heaven and watching eart. When you die, thats that. Period
And before I forget, In 2000 years if the eart still exists then maybe the mankind Will go and believe the book of dawkins and think he is the creator or god because its In the book with hard top
Ok, I must admit Vin's views almost persuaded me to unsub at this one, until I considered the possibility I may have simply misunderstood.
There is nothing special about the human race that places us above any living creature. We are all just as valued or just as insignificant depending on your perspective. Regardless of respective, however, the message is that we WERE here. However insignificant we've been given the gift of life which many have missed out on often due to nothing more than circumstance. We were here when many were not and we're still here and we should treasure that.
One of my biggest issues with religion is the preaching of an unproven afterlife just to ease the fears of those passing on. It's ok to be afraid. We all fear the unknown. However, by focusing on our next life which might never come we undervalue that which we DO have. Our actual life! The gift of waking up in the morning and still being here. Even more so if we have somebody to share that experience with but even if not we still HAVE life. We still get to exist on this earth for one day more. I hold no delusions of what may or may not come. This helps me appreciate what I have right here and right now. The gift of life. How lucky that makes me and all of us.
...wow...I ran with that one for a while but I think I communicated what I got from it all.
There ARE things that set us above other beings on earth.
1- Belief and display of belief in a Higher Power.
2- Purposefully cooking our food, especially Proteins.
3- Sexuality for entertainment.
4- Music for entertainment.
5- Conservation.
Other than these things, Primates in general are nearly useless to the earth. Anything Primates do, other animals (especially insects) do it better.
Actually, I'm pretty sure all 5 of those points are useless to the earth, which is an odd criteria to have as setting one lifeform over another IMO. We are unique in those things, sure (with numbers 3 and 5 being questionable depending on how strictly you define them), but ALL living beings are unique in some way or another, so again, we have no reason to point to our uniqueness, not matter how proud we may be of ourselves, and say we are intrinsically, objectively above or more important or more valuable than any other living beings on this planet. Truth be told, from a "useless/useful to the earth" perspective, humanity has done far more to damage the earth than any other living being, right?
Also, I always love how the monotheists represent general theism to slant in their favor, e.g., defining "a Higher Power" instead of "Higher Powers." Polytheists do exist, too. (And I disagree with them, too.)
@@blackdragonburn470 If you do not "believe in something unproven", even more so we are the only beings that practice 3-5. Every sound animals and insects make has a purpose. Communication or Location of pray.
If you put a wolf on an island with 20 goats, within 1 year the goats will be dead and the wolf will have starved to death. During the Age of Sail, the British, Dutch and Spanish put various animals (usually goats, pigs and chickens) on every island and strip of land. Not only as a source of future food but those animals would lead future sailors to water.
@@michaelvondrake7489 Sorry, but there are a ton of things other lifeforms can do that we can't so it's just your opinion that these are of greater value than what they have. Personally I'd love to be able to grow back limbs like a salamander. Definitely a lot more useful than believing in a higher power.
@@davemason4055 Something of value. Sure, many can fly or digest things we cannot. But the 5 things we can do, leads to Who and What we are. The things Humanity can do are unique to our species.
Omg!
166: Epica - Consign to Oblivion (live at the Zenith)
Just figured I'd throw this out there since on multiple instances you suggested that this song follows the structure of Avenged Sevenfold's song Exist. This song was released over a year prior to Avenged Sevenfold's so if anything they followed the structure of this song.
THANK YOU 👏👏👏👏
Exactly!!
Put your Avenged to you know where! 🤬😈
Thank You for that. I have seen them four times live. They get better every time I see them.
The Greatest Show On Earth is probably the Greatest song I ever heard.
Floor is just beautiful to watch and listen. Just look at her passion, her fun. She's constantly smiling. Can't stop watching these shows with her.
Yes!! Richard Dawkins!!! Evolution is real!!!
Eh. As time goes on and science matures, all of our currently held "theories" will be dismantled I believe. We are but infants in science, barely scratching the surface of all that actually exists in the cosmos, physically, and spiritually.
You dropped your fedora
We're part of the cosmos and as humanity we make our own meaning, that's the message of the song, something that many theists can never understand or feel. We are important because we're not slaves of fear of an original sin or a fake God. "We were here" is something we will tell in the distant future when we'll finally leave our planet or when we'll be near our extinction. We were part of nature and the universe, we were here and witnessed evolution of our world and that's important by itself! I'm sure maybe Vin and certainly Sori understood this and for a moment they were captured by this feeling! They wanted to be part of the actual cosmos and not slaves to their fantasy fears. Oh well, we'll get them next time!
None of that matters though. And I’m not afraid of original sin. That’s new I’ve never heard that one before
You all feel that you are a priori sinful and that you have to follow a certain dogma to get rid of that original sin. Then you feel fear when logic kicks in sometimes, but you're so caught up to that idea that you're afraid to escape from it. It's fear of being free of bonds. Original sin creates that fearful bond, it's the basis of christianity as I see it
Nah the doctrine of original sin is one of the most obvious doctrines to me in Christianity, and it carries a ton of utility in the world. I don’t know what you’re talking about honestly
I'm not sure if what I said is actually true, since I'm not theist. I just tried to use reason & explain it logically. Ok then fear of hell it is!!!
Any Christian building their faith/life on The fear of Hell Will Have their faith/life broken. Because fear is not of Jesus as you can see from his life. You can't build on fear, The fear Will only become greater until it brakes you. No being born again and Been made a new creation is being free from fear according to The Bible and i can testify to that from My own Life. I was prayed for and was Set free instantly from over 10 years of depression, anxiety and panic attacks and now im completely free from literal fear that enslaved me. Now im free and totally healed from those diseases. If Jesus wanted us to Be in fear or to rule me/us through fear why would he heal me of it? And why would his word speak of being Set free from fears all The Time. I didn't become a Christian because of The fear of Hell, i became a Christian because of the immense love that i was overwhelmed by when Jesus Set me free and i became a new creation, and The truth of his word which his Power confirmed. As The Bible says God is Love and The goal of our instruction (that is The Bible) is Love, so that we become love like our Father.
I used to in my teenage years Be Driven by The fear of Hell but that never made free nor did instill love in me. Never did it Make me want to know God more and never did it change me to become christlike, because it couldnt. Only made me More self focused which again goes against The teaching of Jesus. Which is "If any man wants to follow he must FIRST deny himself then pick up his Cross and follow me". It wasnt until i was wrecked by Christs love and understood that love that i was Set free from me and became a new creation. And now i want to become christlike, now i want to Be love as he IS Love. And now i can become love, so that i can love God and love people. This is what Jesus does to a believer If he surrenders and doesnt hold on to his former self, fear doesnt work nor belong in The Christian life. So whenever someone preaches The fear of Hell instead of Jesus he is in The wrong, for fear is not The fruit of God. For why would a God fear or Have need of fear he IS God. No he wants us to love for he IS Love that is what i Have come to understand.
There is nothing "special" in life itself, but the small chance that you are alive is miraculous. In the end we fade away but we were here
*(Long af)*
Edit: a7x's song came out after this one.
I watched again (I couldn't sleep)
And I just wanted to thank you guys once more for doing this for the Ocean Souls who relentlessly requested this song.
You both hit on points that I think were in line to what Tuomas *wanted* to convey.
His music is brilliant.
He's often times heard every piece of the music (vocals in mind as well) in its entirety, written it out in some form and presented to the band and the Orchestra they record with (they typically work with him to fine tune things) and with Endless Forms Most Beautiful (album) is pretty much what I personally consider a concept album in some ways due to the fact that the last song on it is Greatest Show on Earth and the songs leading up to it also paint a story.
Tuomas himself stated The album is written with the intent that one must sit down from start to finish.
( I took it as his way if saying you should, in order to really and truly give you a grand build up to his Magnum Opus )
Edit: it seems like since Troy joined Nightwish, Tuomas is thinking more on the plane of agnostic or athiest.
The album itself Tuomas at one point felt was the last story Nightwish had left to tell, because after writing it he felt empty. (He's known for being dramatic of course- but he's got a good heart and means well, I think )
It was after he went and worked on his other band, Auri, with his wife Johanna and Uliean pipe player Troy, that his creativity came torrenting back and inspired more Nightwish which has said to have (last I heard) 80% already written and will be recorded in summer to be released in 2020ish with a massive tour to follow, so I feel like this is even bigger than E.F.M.B.
Seeing this song live, in person, is beyond the most emotional and intense experience ever. Hearing all these voices singing along in unison, in anticipation... Its magical. There's nothing quite like a nightwish show.
I stated before that tuomas often is running up to 5 background tracks on his keyboard.
Marco, on bass who sang with Floor here, also plays guitar. He's in another band Tarot that's been around for as long or longer than nightwish.
Emppu is the guitarist. He uses a LOT of downstroking in his chunky sounding guitar riffs, which as most know is hard to do well as fast as he does. He's such a little firecracker
Kai is a fill in (Wintersun) for Jukka who has been ill.
You know about Floor, the Flying Dutchwoman (aka Xena)
I'm glad you enjoyed it as much as you did. I seriously think you should listen to the album its on or listen to the Decades disk I sent you. You might find it a lot more interesting the deeper you go into the history of the band.
Its amazing to me that they all remain so humble still. They all radiated kindness when I met them and were very patient with more nervous fans. They're very special. You can't understand until you see them live for yourself, or dig deep into the back catalogue, I think.
*shout out to the Village*
All of you. 💜
Pony, you explained things alot better than I could. There are PLENTY of great bands out there. Quite a few that I like more than NIGHTWISH but in all of that, there really is Nothing like NIGHTWISH. Some bands play similar music. Sometimes faster. Never better that I have witnessed as of yet. And faster does not often translate into better.
I came back randomly because of course I think Vin misses the point .
Yes, there's a part stating humans have a lust to feel exceptional, but I think the point is missed; Sori however caught it.
You hear Dawkins reading from his book, stating how incredible the odds are that we are born, you also hear the story of humankind (which includes humankind and our desire to dominate)
Basically you're on a journey through humankind, our desire for greatness and our desire to progress no matter the cost yet we need the reminder that we're special.
Vin is such an interesting guy. I feel like I would enjoy having a philosophical discussion with him over a bottle of wine. I mean I fundamentally disagree with him, but that's why he is interesting, he raises some interesting points sometimes. I always find it good to listening to someone with opposing views to your own, in that way you can either adjust your views or have them being more robust.
I completely agree. I've learn so much from him. I still have my positions, but they have become slightly more nuanced now. :)
As long as the wine is red
I, also, can't stand white wine. My favorite wine was always the Port wine they used at my Episcopal Church I grew up in. Everyone hated it, but I loved it.
Then I found out how expensive that wine was. :O Good night! :O Better be good.
White wine, red wine, as long as it makes you warm and happy it works for me :)
This song is basically a whole concert set in itself. Floor has the voice of an angel and I could listen to her all day long
Did you just make fun of my lord and savior the Flying Spaghetti Monster?!!
Lol!
No way. All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Certain she must be Italian.
This reaction is amazing. I love that you gave it so much attention and really looked into it! Brilliant! :-)
Now Vin and Sori are ready for the 24 - minute epic that is Symphony X - The Odyssey :)
Seems this side of metal is being a bit left out. I second this request
third.
but The Greatest Show on Earth is exactly 24 minute long too.
Злобный Телепузик 😁
Let's throw in the 35 minute epic from Swallow the Sun "Plague of Butterflies" lol
This song is about the celebration of life on this planet. It has nothing to do with religion or atheism. I think religious people and atheist people can agree with one of the songs lyrics where it talks about a common ancestor. Atheists think its some organism we are descendent from and religious people think its some deity but the common ground is both groups believe we came from someone or something. Lets all celebrate this song for its brilliance in depicting life and how lucky we are to have it .
This song never denies God. Talking about Gods blueprints doesn't preclude God. There is plenty of spiritual metaphors hidden throughout the song. I'm still looking for what 'this view of the world' is Vin, as it seems to be very spiritual to me. I mean, they have the Golden Ratio shells lying across a guitar thread ( ie the direct correlation between the numbers and the vibrations in music ) They even use mythological language to describe the forming of the planet!
Dawkins himself does not deny the existence of God/gods. He simply states that they and EXTREMELY unlikely to exist. To add to this, the chances that one particular interpretation of who/what God is and what their intentions are, is all the more unlikely. So unlikely that it is not really worth his time until convincing evidence of God's existence presents itself. This is my interpretation of the statements in his book anyway, so I agree that the song does not deny the existence of God. And yes it uses language like: "we are here to care for the garden", but Vin&Sori don't seem to catch on to this.
obviously
@@pixieburicescu6295 I think it would be scientifically impossible to say for certain that god doesn't exist because we can't prove that he doesn't. But then again, we can't prove that Santa Claus doesn't exist either.
@@joshbeaton3239 proving non existence is illogical. To claim something exists places the burden of proof on that person.
I can sit here and claim that anything exists, and that it must since you can't disprove it. However, the burden of proof is placed upon me to support my claim that it does.
Scientific theories are rooted in fact, and many of them have been proven in many ways, but can't be law due to the inability to test certain aspects.
We have proven many parts of Einstein's theory of relativity. Our communications wouldn't work without adjustments based on relative equations. However, there are extreme cases, such as a black hole, that we simply can not test. That leaves it open as a theory.
Micro evolution has been proven many times over. Macro evolution can't be due to the times involved, but we can form a strong theory suggesting the patterns of micro evolution will continue over those periods of time leading to macro evolution. The fossil record also supports it.
I've seen Nightwish three times in much smaller venues and they were just as epic in those smaller venues. They're truly fantastic.
Now for my request...
My Dying Bride - Like a perpetual funeral
Simply Awesome. Especially the end with Richard Dawkins speaking.
Vin, it's important to US that we were here. They're celebrating humanity, evolution and the universe and the accomplishment that we're here; which does not if you're an atheist have anything to do with a god necessarily. Of course one can not prove the non existance of a god, but whether or not you're an atheist or religious we're all still humans and can appreciate the universe and that we get to participate in it. As an atheist myself I am constantly amazed and by the beauty of life and the world around us. Doesn't mean that I have to believe in a god; to me it's even more likely that we're in a simulation, but that in itself would be an amazing revelation and absolutely astonishing and lovely in its own right. Nightwish are finnish, I'm from Sweden myself but while us from the nordics are generally atheist we're still just the same as you, we appreciate what we've been given and how lucky we were to get here, even if it wasn't a god ;). Personally I think it's a lot more exceptional to accept that we just don't know if there is a God or not (certainly isn't any proof of it) and still fight on with the belief in humanity and ourselves, accepting our lust for being exceptional and fighting to make it a reality every day, rather than just pretend we know there's some cosmological being watching over us and that his creating us makes us exceptional.
Edit: I want to add to this that I can understand your view of atheism inevitably leading to nihilism. I think it's something that can be struggled with, but even religious people struggle with finding meaning sometimes. I think everyone needs to find their own meaning in life, for you god may fill that emptiness, but for me that never could fulfill it as I believe what I believe no matter what I WANT to believe. I find meaning in myself, in love and in humanity. What I want is for humanity to believe in each other, rather than a god.
Merry christmas and happy new year to you guys!
Stop acting like you know everything and be open to other interpretations, lol.
I have seen some of your videos, and I couldn't help to subscribe to your channel after seeing this one. You two are amazing at this. Thank you! Keep em' coming!
Richard Dawkins book, "the greatest show on earth", best book ive ever read. Which you hear dawkins voice about 8min in, and periodically throught the performance and ending.
More Nightwish please!
- 7 days to the wolf. Live at Wembley
- Yours is empty hope. Live at Wembley
- Shudder before the Beautiful. Live at Wembley
- My walden. Live at Wembley
- Storytime. Live at Wembley
- I want my tears back. Live at Wembley
At the very least this reminds me why I don’t watch the entire react videos when Vin is involved. He doesn’t care to understand any viewpoint beyond his own perspective.
Hey, thanks for this reaction! I'm so glad you liked it AND it made you think and discuss about what it made you feel. Much appreciated. Keep up the good work!
Of course a song inspired by evolutionary biology aka scientifically proven fact was gonna trigger a Christian haha. Great reaction though. Love Floors quiet and classical parts. As for the indifference/beautiful reality thing I do agree with Dawkins. For example I love sitting at a fireside, the flames and warmth and life surrounding it is beautiful but it doesn't mean anything. It just is.
Greatest review of this song EVER!!! Vin, I love you man!! You broke it down perfectly!!!👍💪❤
The song is about celebrating life itself, and trying to show that science can be beautiful in its explanations as well. Some things I'd like to point out: 1) They're saying all life is exceptional because it's... well, alive, thus celebrating that "we were here", but it doesn't mean humans are exceptional compared to all other life. But we do have the lust to be. Personally I feel humans generally think they're much more impressive in comparison to other life than they actually are. Doesn't mean I don't think we're still impressive along with all other life. 2) I think "biological holy" in this case means something grander and greater than us; something we have no control over and we would be in awe of, not holy as in the actual original, religious meaning of the word. Though they were probably also aware of the irony. 3) I don't think there can't be nobility if you think everything is objectively meaningless. Just because ultimately everything is meaningless, doesn't mean there aren't small things in life and your experience of it itself that are meaningful towards other life. Human beings can't comprehend living in the mindset of "ultimately" anyway, so there's no use, but that still doesn't mean we can't believe that's the case even if we can't understand and live according to it. In fact, there are religions out there that, in ways, are all about if you do manage to live as if nothing ultimately has meaning, then that *is* your true salvation. 4) Humans created idolatry, period. It's not saying every religion is idolatry compared to science, but that humans created religions so they also created idolatry. It's basically the same if they said humans invented talking and thus verbally debating each other. 5) The song isn't saying humans understand but a single grain of sand compared to everything that's out there. It's saying we DON'T even understand a single grain of sand ("had a *dream* to understand"), and what its meaning is, and we probably never will, but we would like to. It's saying humans don't understand the meaning of existence itself, but here we are anyway.
I don't particularly believe the things discussed here one way or another. I personally lean towards thinking we'll probably never truly know the answer to these things, so I'd rather not pick sides. I just felt like pointing those few things out, cause for as much as Vin always points out gaps and mistakes in the messages of the songs, his arguments many times (especially when he hasn't gotten the core of the point) have just as many in return.
Dang! Everyone in that band delivered to the highest degree in this performance but that woman can sing the hell out of a song!
Oh this poor brain washed Christian 😂 can never really appreciate this master piece
Exactly. They're the only ones who only focus on lyrical theme of the song instead enjoying the music.
Finally! :) Glad you now did listen to this one! :) And, as always, it was fun to watch your reaction to it.
Vin, damn right you're triggering me! Look at you, laughing there about how stupid and OBVIOUSLY contradictory atheistic worldview is, but isn't that what you think (and I partially agree) atheist do? Maybe we should hold our high horses, and just have conversation.
What he is saying is Theists will usually be (or forever should be) open minded to believe something else is possible. Someone elses point of view probably fits in our befief system. Atheists have a an even more strict denial system than the most ardent Theists Belief System. Usually saying we are wrong just because we believe. Yet we are Evolutionally Created to be the Only beings Capable of a Belief System.
Building your worldview on ignorance is much more open for revision than a worldview built on dogmatic beliefs. Dogma comes about naturally to us, but it's hard to shake off in the face of new evidence, especially when you have built your whole identity on top of it, and are emotionally invested in it. On the other hand, ignorance is hard to accept initially, it's bleak and meaningless, but it makes learning new stuff much easier, even when you discover a deity. Nobody's free of dogma though, I'm not for sure.
@@niilaheikki Ignorance is "Ignoring" that another point of view has worth.
@@niilaheikki I had actually walked away from Religion for a while. But after 5 years, I still felt empty. It wasn't until someone started falsely accusing the faith I was baptized in that I found myself defending it. Than another set of gross accusations came along and I found my Faith again. Without Faith I felt empty. In Faith I felt full.
No, to ignore is not the same as ignorance. It's not that I want to be in ignorance, but I'd rather be ignorant than believe in something without satisfying reason. I'm free to hear what you have to say, I'm free to try myself if I want to. I'm glad you your faith makes you happy and full, no doubt it would make me feel good as well in some ways, as it has in the past, but that's not the way I judge what is true. Sometimes truth can be disappointing and cold, and I don't want to overlook that because of how I feel about it. To me, it's entirely possible that there is no god, other than what we make it to be. It's really possible that there is no meaning for our existence other that what we make it to be. It's possible, and I don't wan't to rule that out because it doesn't feel good.
Love this song and awesome analysis, Vin!
Their best live concert video quality. The whole show is awesome imho
I can't believe someone did a rock odyssey based on Dawkin's "Greatest Show on Earth"
I am a proud owner of a first edition hardback copy :) All 470 pages of it.
It's a great book - but I'm still surprised that someone turned it into a terrific 20 minute prog rock song.
In the Wembley concert, Dawkins himself came onto the stage at the end and recited the last words of "On the Origin of Species".
And ...
We Were Here!
Cuddles for everybody! :)
Humanity created language. I don't understand your argument here. We have always created our own concepts and meanings. We are continuing to do so to this day. ~54 min mark
Even God works in this world through man, as you briefly asserted Vin. I love the sort of 'feedback loop' this creates between God and 'man'.
You say nightwish, I'm in...insta favorite
You should check out their live performance of Planet Hell with their original female vocalist Tarja. Another awesome live performance video you should check out is Lacuna Coil-Blood, Tears, Dust
Here are the links fyi:
th-cam.com/video/MckQglkuK_k/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/rwibMSSN7ac/w-d-xo.html
Finally! :) Thank you!
Did u know that head of the band Tuomas studied biology in university before they break out?
Just sitting down for this 1+ hour video. I know I'm gonna love it :D
Floor = goddess. If you disagree I will fight you.
Colin Wilcox She's no Tarja.
Yes. She is better.
tarja ain't as dynamic as floor..
Tarja is great. I love her. She was groundbreaking. But she became a one-trick pony. Her husband and manager only made things worse. How can he think to demand Tarja gets 50% of the income when she doesn't write the music and only wrote lyrics to 2 songs that Tuomas finished.
I've seen Nightwish 9 times, 8 of them with Tarja. Not one damn gig where she didn't sing off note. The first gig I enjoyed was with Anette and I didn't even like her. I haven't had the luxury to witness Floor's singing yet.
This was absolutely incredible, such passion for the craft. There were a lot of riffs clearly inspired by Megadeth and on 5 second Metallica bit..but omg, this was amazing INCREDIBLE!!!
Those spoken, recited lines in the background are so fucking deep and have struck me deeply..
Metallica was Tuomas' first ever metal show I believe
Also: completely agree
There was also chamber music, banjo music, and electronica in there.
I see that "We were here" as something like... Of all the moments you could've been born, like a thousand years ago or maybe a thousand years from now, you are HERE and NOW. In this exact moment of the existence you are alive and all of your choices have led you to being here, now, with us, and that's freaking amazing!
Nightwish - Song Of Myself (live Wacken 2013)
You are way too kind for this!!! 😭😭😭😭😭💜💜💜💜💜 thank you
I AGREE. Hopefully soon.
This is the most intelligent response I have seen to this song. No one can feel the beauty of humanity shouting "we were here!" together and accept the idea that we will pass away forever, without meaning or purpose. No one feeling the emotions of this songs feels that we are finite. It is self-deception. The truth that this song shows our hearts is the same as the objective truth of reality: That we were here, and we are here, and we shall forever be here.
Richard Dawkins is just a delight to listen to.
oh and by the way "The most humans were never born".... is a reference to all the dead seamen.
Yo Nightwish killed it here.
“We were here” means we go extinct.
love this song lots of talent in this band you should do more nightwish like ROMANTICIDE live from wacken open air 2013 great time hanging out with you two!
Just discovered the channel. Thank you for all the reviews. The three epics of Nightwish make me very happy every time I hear them. (Ghost Love Score, Poet and the Pendulum and the above song.) Very glad to have found this.
This guy got so triggered. It's not science=atheism, the fact that we're not able to explain Space-Time to the core, or how it's theoretically possible to break physics in the macro and micro scheme and many other unexplainable phenomena is just so humbling that I might as well have a superior force creating the whole of this universe AND accept it. Sticking to a sacred book Is not universal as not all belief systems are universal.
great review guys! to an absolute masterpiece.
What I found most absurd about the backlash against this song from some religious people is their constant adherance to rather outdated views.
I don't get why it's so hard to accept this song and its message, which is, imho, positive and doesn't throw a punch against any - pardon my casual language - sensible religious belief.
You know - we're here. We don't had any purpose or meaning being here. But we made one ourselves, we're still here and left our mark striving for a better life.
Science - physics, astronomy nor biology - does not discuss the possibility or impossibility of a creator but is only concerned with explaining the world through observations, continuous self-testing and logical deduction. *These subjects are godless. Intentionally!* Anyone who infers to science to prove or disprove god is at least highly untrustworthy and most certainly wrong.
But I also don't see any solace nor humanity, ethics or decency in the forementioned scientific method which is why ethics, philosophy and religion always had and will have their place in this world: to give meaning to our existance. One does not work without the other imo.
Which is why I simply can't fathom how one could force anybody to nigh exclusively subscribe to one or the other. Afterall many scientists in human history were religious or had some sort of belief. The same way the overwhelming majority of religious people don't stay away from technology.
Then again there's always been and will always be stupid people on either side; any world view.
Well that went really off-topic.
This all could be a cultural thing. I gotta say I really really don't get this whole orthodox shtick especially Americans proudly proclaim - maybe they're only the loudest or the ones I most often hear from here in europe.
What I really wanted to say: It's interesting to hear your thoughts on it. Your reactions usually go a bit to far in terms of religion and philosophy for me personally; but it's certainly well received.
Gave the song a ten that’s not backlash is it
Was I talking broadly or specifically about you? *some religious people* ain't everyone. Nor did I say anything against your reaction.
Some of us believe that God created Evolution. I personally never doubt that.
I happened to this reaction channel by chance. I noticed that there are to date 1500 comments, well done you two! I have read but a fraction of the comments. I have listened and watched this music over and over again. I enjoy it immensely, even though I believe in Creator and in creation. The more I watch it the more I rejoice in God and I am blown away by the talent on stage. Instead of confirming me of evolution it confirms me of the opposite.