Dune Part 2 Was BAD and Here's Why (Nerd Review)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.พ. 2024
- We're both huge fans of Dune (books and other media) and Denis Villeneuve. But this was BAD. If you liked it? Great. But consider our arguments.
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#DUNE
#PART2
#SUCKED - เกม
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There were some bad edits that confused me.
Stillgar sends Paul out into the desert for a solo camping trip. How did that solo trip end? Did Stillgar find out that Chani helped Paul? Nope. Suddenly the movie jumps to some fremen attacking a spice harvester. Is this attack happening while Paul is on his solo camping trip? Who are these masked fremen? Oh! It's a Paul and Chani! Whaaa? I guess the solo camping trip is done and everthing went great...?? No problems with spiders or centipedes, I guess. And Stillgar was OK with Chani going with Paul on his solo trip?
Another bad edit is the scene where Paul drinks the blue gatorade. The build-up to that scene was way too short. Paul is suddenly at the temple where he goes straight for the beaker of juice. No hesitation. No fear. Just give me the juice so we can get to the next scene. No explanation. No big deal. How did Paul get to the temple ahead of his entourage? It felt like that scene was over edited, too much was cut out. I initially thought it might be a pre-cog dream where Paul dies...but Nope! He drank the juice and that scene is done. Wasn't that scene supposed to be the most important turning point of Paul's life?
THANK YOU SO MUCH! I haven’t heard a single other person call attention to this until now and it drove me NUTS. The waters of life scene is absolutely one of the biggest moments of either of the movies and it was botched hard. Everything you just said I was literally questioning in the theater while watching it. Ruined the rest of the movie for me once I noticed the poor editing.
Yeah wtf was the point of that solo trip like it was set up as if we were going to get a montage of him surviving several days in the desert trying to combat against desert stroms the freezing nights giant worms centipedes and scary ghost spirits haunting him but nah let's have him dancing in the desert with fucking zendaya wtf was that!?
Exactly, very confusing at first. The time wasted on the solo desert crossing could have been better used elsewhere in the movie.
@@Royal_FortuneI'm also ONE OFYOU GUYs..
I've been losin g my MIND with all the reviews and people A S S kissing this movie..
Also....GENERIC BAD GUYS....are generically BAD and evil.....
Why are they "bad and evil"..?..
Cause...
Just cause...
Completely 1 dimensional
@@RammingSpeed-lk8kk I also have to mention how they hyped up the takeover of the planet the entire movie and it lasted maybe 5 minutes up to the point where he fought Feyd-Rautha. The galactic army was defeated anticlimactically, it was incredibly tiny for a force that dominates space. We didn’t even really get to see them fight. Paul literally walks in and seizes the throne with no ceremony in the very next scene following the worms. There was more action during the Harkonnen takeover in the first movie than there was in the takeover of the galactic army, Harkonnens, and planet combined in the second part by the end.
Speaking of the feyd-rautha part, while the fight was visually great I couldn’t care less for feyd because they just turned him into a murderous psycho in the movie and left the extent of his depth as a character at that. They talk about the harkonnens being bloodthirsty killers in the movies but that’s not all they are. They’re are supposed to be cunning and crafty not JUST psychotically violent even though they are bad. So, I totally understand what you mean by the enemies falling flat.
The editing erased all tension. I couldn't put my finger on it at first but a bunch of stuff gets touched on and then it moves on without elaborating
"we have to convince these people because we're in danger. We'll start with the weakest".
Next scene:
All the Fremen follow the Reverend Mother wholeheartedly.
Yup loved the first movie saw this last night very disappointed
Possibly. The characters' development was so shallow that i couldn't believe how Villeneuve went from the masterpiece that was part 1 to this bad "Sauvage" spot. Zendayas "love" for Paul... Don't... Just... 😖. I'm pretty sure the studio demanded a lot to be cut. Look at "Kingdom of heaven". From one of the shallowest movies possible for Scott to make in - cinemas, to possibly the best historical movie of the last 50 years once they released the director's cut.
I just saw this in the movies, and the editing in the first hour and a half had me shaking my head at the abrupt unconnected scenes in the story. This movie was the perfect example of an old video of Trey Parker & Matt Stone giving a scriptwriting seminar where in writing the beats, avoid 'and then'. "This happens, and then this happens, and then this happens, this is not a movie, that's not a story" That is exactly what the first half of the movie was...maybe more, idk, I was pretty dialed out by then.
Disagree completely. Nice to have a film respect my intelligence and ability to fill in the gaps without non-stop exposition dumps.
They did Alia so dirty and they completely skimmed over the Baron’s death by having Paul do the job instead of Alia.
What? The Baron died like the animal he was. Alia does it. Or Paul. Same result. Different is different. But let's not be so dramatic. The same purpose was served.
@@donny1960 because there is a bloody reason Herbert wrote it that way, and because Villeneuve just flushed Alia's entire storyline from "Messiah" and "Children of Dune" down the drain for the sATisFyInG moment.
@@OverLorD768 You are delusional. Alia is intact. Her role in Messiah can be exactly as written. She will be born. And then ..take it from there. I have no idea what you are talking about. Do you?
@@donny1960 I do, actually. I also love the rage of DV fanboys. It's... invigorating.
Her role in Messiah cannot be "exactly as written", since Villeneuve already gutted the original Dune ending so badly that I have no idea how they are going to bring the story back. No, I do actually, Villeneuve would simply go full fanfiction mode, and write his own version of "Dune Messiah", just as D&D did with Seasons 7 and 8 of Game of Thrones. Also while turning Alia into the saviour, I imagine.
There was a reason why it was Alia who killed the Baron. There was a reason why Reverened saw her and was terrified by her. The whole journey of Alia to become the "Abomination" and being posessed by her victim, the Baron, started in the ending of the original Dune. Herbert wrote it that way. Lynch got it. John Harrison in his miniseries got it. Only Villeneuve thought that he is smarted than Frank Herbert (which is kinda weird for a person who claim that he dreamed about making a Dune movie since he was 12, if you ask me), and got it wrong. But then again, his adaptation of Dune is perfect for an audience like you. All spectacle, no substance.
You do remember in the movie that Alia is in Jessica's body right? This is ridiculous. Just because something doesn't match the book or the movie from the 80s doesn't mean it was somehow cheapened. The way this film enacts the Baron's death was so much more appropriate for the villian that he was. Paul just walked right up to him and stabbed him in the neck.....HELL YEAH! I always thought the portrayal in the old movie was weird and I just never understood it.
I just want to say thank you for affirming that I'm not completely insane by being completely dismayed by the critical reception of this film...or at the very least that I'm not alone in my insanity. Also, when you mentioned the power range scene...THANK YOU! I literally said the EXACT same thing to my brother when I watched the first movie! I burst out laughing all of the sudden and I had to explain to him afterward. Holy crap. I'm so unbelievably comforted right now.
Most "critics" and "movie reviewers" don't even watch movies these days
Didnt read the books...but found Chani extremely annoying. She makes fun of the prophecy but sleeps with the chosen one (after he gets the biggest worm in town). She loves him in one scene, then accuses him of wanting to enslave them, then she wants to kill him in the temple, but then she gets jealous of him marrying the princess, so she leaves angry at him etc etc...at the final battle they are all over the place. They start planning the attack at the west side of the valley (from where the nukes are shot), then magically Chani is teletransported and appears under the sand with hundreds of wariors. Paul is in the west, then magically appears in the north with thousands of warriors. The nukes destroy a mountain creating a tsunami of massive boulders and dust that its about to destroy the "palace", but then nothing happens and only some soldiers are killed, but then Stilgar attacks from the opening and nothing is there from the nuke's rubble. The emperors army is supposed to be the best in the universe but they get killed so easily, even in one to one combat. In the first movie they were unbeatable. So many more plotholes and contradictions.
bahahaha it's funny that someone who hasn't read the book could even point the hypocrisy of her character. You nailed the discrepancy between her movie Chani and book Chani perfectly without even reading the book. She is not like some know-it-all, morally superior college student in the book at all. She absolutely knows what the fuck is up, and in actuality, the so called 'exploitation' is mutual. The Fremen are using Paul and Paul is using the Fremen. But Paul doesn't frickin want to, but it's the only way. Chani is literally there to support him as best as she can because it's her people's only chance to make their dreams of turning Arrakis into a paradise.. She literally kills his challengers right outside their tent while Paul is sleeping. They fall deeply deeply in love and it's so sad to see how much Villeneuve butchered this shit, all for the sake of morphing it to the current trends "Omg girl don't you dare bow to that awful man Paul! After he just married that woman gurrrrll cmon!". I actually question whether Villeneuve even read the book since he was 14 years old because it seems like what a 14 year old would only remember when reading the book.
Well to be fair he also literally saves her life, killed a man, and just other stuff that would have made her wet. And I don't think she's jealous at the end, she's mad that her people will now be doing jihad. But yeah the fight scene could have been done better. It's meant to be a "blink and it's over" "battle" scene. And yeah they do get rolled super easy. Happens in the book as well iirc. It's supposed to be a surprise attack right as they're getting there. Like, you get off the transport from the guild highliner and then you get rolled immediately in a surprise attack. The missing rubble was odd tho, I think it's supposed to be that the rubble is "in the storm" in the other shots. Because the worms are coming in during a super-storm with the storm "at their backs" as in the book. I will note that they were not unbeatable in the first movie, we only saw them fight soldiers one time (from behind with harks on the other side of them flanking them). And duncan takes out several and then takes out near a whole squad single handed. Not unbeatable at all. In the books of course it's supposed to be emps guys are better than the guys of the great houses, but the fremen are as good or better than emps men on dune itself.
@@grantwithers 😂 yep. Also true about the power of Fremen warriors vs the rest. I always saw the Fremen as like fatherless children of the universe, or a headless body in need of a head or a leader.
she isn't like that at all in the books.
Being a non-book reader and being able to also deduce that all as well, is amazing
Chani’s character was so dry and impossible to believe, 4/10 acting all around, cinematically amazing
It seems Dune 3 is going to revolve around her.
@@teko363 ugh. I really love the concept of her character, but the way chani’s relationship w Paul evolved was so sudden, and seemingly hollow, unearned, so unfortunate, most overrated movies ever
@@brycebrown6596 i fully agree. Maybe shes a great actress in other projects, but in this movie she and her character were incredibly bad. Could be that it was the fault of the director or the screenwriters or who knows. But yeah, fully agree, and thanks for sharing
@@gabrielrodriguez463Her only reaction was FROWNY FACE. I think twice she laughed or smiled. I didn't understand how she loved Paul when Chani just glared at him. Hopefully the wrinkled forehead and down turned mouth is not result of acting coach?
@@teko363 idk about that, maybe, but I had heard irulan gets much more time
I never read the books but even I think its not a good movie. At least not as good as the hype make it seem..
It just never felt like the fremen were fighting a superior force. They were never in any danger.
The villains were built up to die patheticly.
The romance gave me a headache. There is no chemistry.
The villains keep randomly killing their own goons to show how crazy bad they are which really amounted to nothing, felt cheap.
I mean the Harkonnens are the only interesting parts, the actors at least can act unlike the protagonists.
I feel like they didn't really want to show how sadistic the harconans were because it would destroy the ratings and be too much to put on screen.
In the David Lynch version you really understood why Paul and Chani fell in love but there is no chemistry at all in Dune2
@@77Avadon77Lol what?!
They meet. Instant time jump. Boom, passionately in love with clunky ass hell exposition telling the audience they fell in love apparently.
So so bad.
@@travisspazz1624 It's so rushed in the Lynch version for sure, but I think the chemistry was so much stronger with the way Paul gazes longingly at Chani and realizes she's so beautiful while she smiles at him and fondly says, "Tell me of your homeworld, Usul," ending the scene with Paul reaching out his hand towards her. It's very subtle and quick but seems to hit all the right emotional notes combined with the music which does a lot of work.
I think the more surreal quality of the Lynch film also helps with that blazing-fast pace in the latter half, like the shot of the water fading into Paul and Chani kissing passionately which seems almost dream-like. Lynch also visually ties their love to water symbolically, as the first scene of Paul and Chanti falling for each other is after seeing one of the Fremen's water caches, and their love-making scene is then followed by almost the same shot of the water cache. It's very poetic and efficient with the way it all comes together. Even with the rush and fast-forwarding through so many events, there was enough set up there for me to easily imagine how and why they could have fallen so deeply for each other soon after their first encounter.
Also because Paul and Chani almost immediately show signs of attraction to each other on first meeting in the Lynch version (love at first sight), I think it adds more weight to all of Paul's visions of her earlier in the same film. It's like he was already falling for Chani before he even met her through his visions. So those visions themselves function more like a build up for the developing romance in Lynch's version; Chani becomes the woman of Paul's dreams in the romantic sense and not just the literal one.
With this version, we get much more time spent between Paul and Chani including them fighting together in a dire circumstance, and they ultimately fall for each other over the sunset scene where they exchange a bit about their backgrounds. Paul: "Well, I'd very much like to be equal to you." Chani: "[...] maybe you could be Fremen." [They kiss each other, fade out]. Yet it doesn't really seem to have that same chemistry to me. I'm not perfectly sure why. I think it's more in the body language and acting, since if I read the screenplay, I would have thought everything was there to build up a very interesting and compelling romance. Yet it fell even flatter than Lynch's version (for me at least) despite devoting much more screen time to the interaction of these two characters.
Oddly enough, I felt the movie was rushed. After reading the book the movie felt like the cliff notes (and not the good ones). If I didn’t read them, I would have been totally lost. And, they reinvented the story all the while getting it totally wrong. So they screwed it all up and it’s going to take 40 years on before anyone else will attempt to make a movie (or tv series) again.
@jroar123 I am 100% with you. I saw the first movie and that got me into the book. Wanted to finish it before I saw new movie. I finished the part of the book the movie is based on and was flabbergasted by how everything felt "we need to get through x so we can get to y" and would have been confused without reading it. Water of death becomes nukes, Stilgar is fanatical from the beginning, chani is a pseudo-antagonist when she was ride or die in the book, paul agrees to marry irulan so the landsraad will accept his rule yet go to war at the end because they don't (then why marry irulan? if you are doing a clean sweep of your society and ruling by the sword you make the rules). Visually great but storywise I think lynch's is better
@@nathanjames6454 not to mention the Great Houses come to Arrakis not with Emperor but because Baron sent a message to them that sardaukar are trying to wipe them (even tho they stated multiple times that there are no sattelites above Arrakis, and because of the Moons no signal comes through, which is exactly why Arteides weren't able to call for help, and why their destruction remained a mistery to the rest of the Known Universe), Emperor himself coming to Arrakis not because the Guild forced him to fix the spice production, but because Paul sent him and invitation, Paul being reduced from the most powerful player in the room to a bloodthirsty screaming maniac who Irulan barely saves her father from, bedouins who lived in the desert for their entire life suddenly know how to operate the space ships and go on the conquest, Paul deciding to dring water of life because he had a chat with Jamis Force Ghost. Oh, and Baron's grand plan to seize the throne for Feyd being boiled down to "Imma gonna tell everyone that Emperor helped to destroy Atreides, big bo-bo)))))".
But sure, the masterpiece of a sci-fi.
They filled it up with wasted scenes IMO. Lotta scenes that didn't add much and I was just waiting for something interesting to happen. Could have lost 75% of Chani would have been a good start....
@@OverLorD768 This movie was total trash. The first one had unforgivable mistakes like making Chani’s father into a woman. I guess they thought if it was okay to make that big of a mistake that the fans wouldn’t notice. And, so they multiplied changes to the story so far to the left that it turned into a complete dumpster fire. All they had to do was stick to the book but no, they had to make it more inline with the Biden administration. The movie reeks of leftist Hollywood edits. Oddly enough, all Biden had to do was to continue on the path that Trump had us on and he (Biden) would have gone down as a good (perhaps not great) President. Instead the leftist agenda ruined our Afghanistan withdraw leaving billions of hard earned taxpayer dollars in the hands of our enemies in the form of weapons. The cost in lives from people we promised freedom was in the thousands. You are probably wondering why I mentioned the left and their ideology? It’s because it was injected into this movie and it shows exactly their failures.
@@jroar123I hated both parts, so understand this comes from the heart...
All offense, no due respect, you sound like the silliest most obtuse and unhinged person possible.
If you are resentful of that judgement my offer to you is... To live.
Live another 30, 40, 50 years.
Squeeze all the juice out of the lemon of life and on the day you are called home by God, surrounded by friends and family I hope you take your final dirt nap STILL being resentful.
Rushed, shallow, non sensical, soulless....talking about the movie.
In the end, the Harkonens were reduced to a non threat. They all died quite easily and anti-climatically. Feyd Ruhta was presented as this super insane, super threatening challenge and after he arrives on the planet he's just another generic villain. The Baron was presented as such a threat and is simply stabbed as he lays on the ground saying nothing! After everything the Beast had done, Gurney kills him in a second. Their deaths were just so disappointing to me. For all the build up to Paul taking revenge on them for the destruction of his house, there was barely any emotion to their defeat. Also, the big reveal that Paul and Jessica were Harkonens by blood led to nothing!
The ending also just felt really rushed and felt like a setup for a Part 3. By the time the final battle started I was expecting a HUGE epic battle but it felt like it was over as it was just getting started.
I didn't hate the movie, but the last hour was super disappointing to me.
THATS EXACTLY HOW I FELT, most of the movie he’s just winning and winning, with barely any struggle,
At least we saw him fight a little. The 1984 movie we never say Fayd fight at all till the end.
The Barron is still a threat.
@@Fiorwestcoast Those who know, know
I felt the same way originally but think about it like this. The purpose of dragging sequences on is to create tension, and create parts where you think the fremen/Paul might lose but then they triumph. There’s no reason for that bc it’s well established how dominant the fremen fighters are, and in combination with Paul’s visions of the future the harkonnens/sardaukar are really no match. The tension in the movie instead comes from Paul trying to resist his destiny that’s been engineered for him and that he knows will cause destruction but is necessary. I certainly felt conflicted about his rise to power. I highly recommend watching it again now that you’re not holding it up to expectations set by other movies
Are the Harkonnens also comically stupid in the books? Cause in this movie they were fucking pathetic. All the fights were so one sided it felt like there was no conflict at all.
No, they're cunning and very dangerous in the books.
I also didn't like how they were all just randomly killing each other. It was a very lazy way to emphasize how cruel and psychotic they were. It was so predictable and weak.
Right?! The "good guys" just seem to have infinite resources and are just better at everything. There's the one scene where the Harkonnen destroy the Freman city by just bombing it... as if that had never occurred to anyone before? And after that they just go back to being really bad at war.
The fight is one-sided because Paul is basically Space Jesus/Genghis Khan... Its not about whether he wins a fight but whether he should be fighting. If that's boring then you can always watch the generic action flicks that come out every few months
@@archmaester6594 This was supposed to be the Emperors army the most powerful army in the universe and this ragtag band of sand insurgents crushed them in like 5 mins. Such a stupid movie..
So much missing... No spacing guild, the importance of spice is undermined, The Emperor looks like he ran away from an old folks home, what is even a Mentat, what is the Kwitatz Haderach, Harkonen cruelty is minimized into random and senseless murder of their own, why is Shai Hulud so important to these people??? Paul now owns the galaxy because nukes??? Chani hates Paul or what??? Theres just so much NOT going on that I left the theater disappointed. Spectacle over substance is a perfect way to put it. I think people are just desperate for movies that arent just a vehicle for "representation and inclusion". Which, I get it, but this isn't it. 5 out of 10. I said what I said.
Kwitatz Haderach is basically what the Bene Gesserit have tested guys like Paul and Feyd for. Which would you have preferred? A sex scene between Vladimir and the young boys he has like in the book? The Shai Hulud are important because it’s like a right of passage for a Fremen to learn how to ride them, No Paul is now emperor because he has the power to destroy spice production on Arrakis which y’know this world needs to run on?, Chani is angry because she watched someone she loves slip away from their humanity and become the prophet. Someone who in the books will cause the deaths of billions. Denis basically gave most of Paul’s inner monologue about his doubts of being the messiah to Chani. Which fair I don’t want any of that clunky exposition like in the Lynch film. There’s a hell of a lot of substance here like about the dangers of hero worship and a character who slowly loses their humanity to become a religious messiah at the cost of lives and becomes a dangerous warlord.
yeah, I got the feeling Chani hates EVERYTHING
Thanks, I can rest now
“Spectacle over substance” EXACTLY
The spacing guild was in the movie. Mentats are shown. The importance of the spice is maintained.
People just like to complain.
This is a comment I wrote on Penguinz0s moist meter glowing review of dune part 2 as I could not believe why this film was recieving so much praise. I did really enjoy part one however, differing from your perspective in that way.
:I am incapable of understanding how anyone can think of part two as anything other than an absolute mess, the tropes, the underdevelopment of the love story, the unexplained plot point of the family atomics, the sillyness of the raids on the spice harvesters and feyd rautha's brief appearance.
The extent of the love story in the film was basically Paul and Chani fighting mini bosses and chani goin "great job for an idiot foreigner" Paul pretty much just looks at her and they are 'in love'.
On the topic of the spice harvesting machine mini bosses, these fight scenes are absurd, the fedeyken being in the exact place the ships will land seeming entirely coincidental or not explained. Then, they effortlessly dispatch the Harkonen soldiers and gunships. However this seems entirely pointless when, after all of that effort, they just annihilate them with an all powerful laser gun.
Paul's scenes of becoming fedeyken were also lacklustre, with him basically speedrunning improving his sand walk, and then immediately transitioning to riding the biggest wurm ever seen. (Also, the ease with which the fremen harness and ride the sandworms really detracts from their position as the apex predators of the desert which was disappointing.)
Feyd rautha also seemed to me like a poorly developed character, he just pops up all psychopathic and then utilises the gunships to destroy the seeches. (which I guess had just been floating around doing fuck all previously?) Also in the final fight between Paul and Feyd, we see the old trope of taking a serious wound to land the final blow on an enemy (pretty much Thorin vs Azog.) I would also have preferred to see the characters depravity and cruelty rather than him simply beating up on some dudes in an arena, similar to Ramsay Snow/Bolton from GoT.
I think the plot was simply too boring and predictable even as someone who has not read the original novel, everything being explained in a way that was painfully patronising and ultimately boring. The characters seemed to face really very little adversity and development with every scene just revealing new information or seeing the characters develop new skills at an extremely surface level and at face value. For example, the 'water of life' pretty much just turning Paul into an omniscient super being and entirely changing his character. I simply think there was not enough mystery and organic character development through dialogue and interactions to create compelling, endearing characters. I would compare many of the scenes to pantomimes with Stilgar, Paul and Chani taking turns to pronounce their opinions at each other with the rest of the fedeyken cheering like canned applause when one of the main characters said something important.
The visuals and music were great granted, but they entirely dismantled the emerging ambiance and mystery of arrakis in exchange for repetitive action scenes and clunky dialogue and character development.
I was either bored or cringing for almost the entire film and was massively disappointed in what could have been a tense, thrilling culmination of the political, religious and romantic storylines at play yet the film fell apart on everything besides the visuals.
"Paul pretty much just looks at her and they are 'in love'." nah they're not in lurg, they're just two soldiers banging after he saved her life and she took a shine to him a bit. Tho paul lurgs her. She obviously does not lurg him. Would bang tho, as she ends up doing.
Not a book reader nor have I seen the Lynch version but I actually loved Part One. However I was super disappoInted with Part Two. The Harkonens seemed lame and weak in this one. The Fade and Rabban duels were anticlImactic AF. I still don't really understand the value and power of Spice. I don't connect with or like any of the characters, especially Chani. Also is the Emperor supposed to seem like the weakest man in the Universe?
Read the book
@@ErenThorne watch a good movie
@@gabrielrodriguez463 Hey ret****. Did I say the movie was good?
The emperor isn’t weak, he just isn’t the main focus.
Yeah exactly the same. I really liked part 1.
Dune is complex, dumbing it down for the lowest common denominator is why these movies suck so badly for me.
Monopoly is absolutely key to the entire plot.
The spacing guild, The emperor, the Great Houses and CHOAM control spice production. That control represents that monopoly in the Dune Universe, which is the primary plot of the book. Everything else that happens in the progression towards the God Emperor does so because of totalitarian control and monopoly over space travel and spice.
To leave it out is an outrage actually.
Dv has given us a formless unintelligent cadaver of a movie. The major themes
of which have been completely lanced from the story like a boil from an unwashed arse.
Imagine the lord of the rings without the 20 minute prologue.
It would drop the audience into one of the most complex stories ever attempted in cinematic history, and they wouldn’t have a clue what was going on. It would ruin the movies.
More than that, the prologues of LOTR are epic in their own right.
From a practical movie making perspective, taking 20mins at the start of the first movie to explain the world you are about to drop the viewer into, means that you dont have to explain it all later in the story when the weight of it would seriously impact the narrative flow.
Both the lynch Movie and the mini series had prologues because dune NEEDS that for world building. I have more than a few issues with DVs “dune”. (purposefully lower case).
The complete lack of world building is a major factor.
He should never have been allowed to make these movies if his intent was to strip the intelligence out so that a dumbed down zombie public can understand it.
The books are quite clear that the force driving the Jihad is biology - that mankind is becoming genetically isolated on each planet and that there is an inescapable biological drive to have an event that mixes up humans across the occupied planets. This is the source of Paul's bitterness - that even though the spice gives him the power to trace forward different futures, even though he can do this, there is never a way to avoid the Jihad and the death of Chani. So yes religious manipulation, monopoly control are all themes, but the engine driving the plot is biological necessity.
Well, that is your problem. Your focus is off. All you mentioned. The Houses. The emperor. The Guild. They are all bit players. Even Spice is just "fuel". The real story of Dune is what the Bene Gesserit were up to. Creating the "Ultimate Control" device in "The One"...... is the story of Dune. And the lesson. Taking chance and change out of the equation, leads to a dead end for the Human Race. The "Golden Path" had nothing to do with Spice.
You do understand that you have to dumb it down somewhat for the audience
So many people are on this very comment section complaining how boring it was because they didn’t understand what all the pieces were all about and why
Imagine if they included all the stuff about the CHOAM and how the emperor wanted to control everything and that meant getting rid of House Atreides
That being said- I thought DV did bring all of that into these films
It was all right there- from the Bene Gesserit wanting political power to the emperor using his Sardaukar army to maintain control- even teaming up with the Harkonnens to maintain control of his monopoly
I mean what were you watching?!
Dune is complex in the same way as a solid color jigsaw puzzle with only 4 pieces. It's always been that way.
At least now it's somewhat entertaining.
@@DoremiFasolatido1979 Your description goes against 60 years of intelligent analysis of the novel. Thanks for pointing out your inefficiencies and inability to comprehend. Somewhat brave of you. But more likely you are one of "those" that think being a contrarian is somewhat "Cool". But you have failed to come close to pulling that one off.
What I disliked most about this movie is that it tries very hard to depict the most nuanced parts of Herbert's books by simply having the characters repeat words. It was actually annoying to hear Lisan Al gaib repeated to the point it's become a meme. The same could be said about the character constantly muttering Muad dib and kwizats haderach and mahdi. All those ideas had substance in the books but were reduced to buzzwords in the film.
I think FH would detest the thought of trying to turn his magnum opus into Hollywood intellectual property to be exploited through a trilogy.
Agree. All crowds felt very stupid. Raising arms, one or two things are being said, and then they all shout Lisan Al Gaib, this sequence repeated like 3 times in the movie. Really sad.
There are several points which massively could improve this waste-of-a-time-movie:
Take the last 20 minutes of the last movie and take that as a setup for the beginning of part 2.
The Harkonnens are almost non-existant and that means a lot when they are the antagonists in a 167 min movie. In the book the Baron is one of the main characters and also VERY verbal, explaining a lot about the world of Dune. Without reading the books first, a viewer is completely lost during some scenes.
The Emperor looked like a guy ready to die. Sure he was 79 in the books, but he was said to look like 40. Christopher Walken was severely miscast. He sticks out as a sore thumb.
Irulan was a wasted character as well- going from a key political figure to a mere bystander, who has a plot going with the Bene-Gesserit until she suddenly stops to be relevant.
Paul and his messiah-like position was played for laughs, especially the scene that was basically a copy from "Life of Brian". His problem of not-wanting to become a prophet due to the resulting millions of lives lost is simply gone after mentioning it once.
Channi was again a non-character except for antagonizing Paul for most of the time. The movie basically skips 2 years and we should just imagine why Paul fell in love with her. This never works in a movie. Just because characters are male and female and close in proximity doesnt explain a relationship.
The biggest joke to me however was when the Emperor came to Arrakis and "he brought all his ships and entire military power", just so they could defeat him in like 5 minutes.
I basically thought the nukes missed the Emperor's ship, but the movie treated it as if the idea of nuking the mountains and then riding the worms through the resulting opening to fight the Emperors army was better than simply nuking his army directly.... like what?
For being more than 2 and a half hours long this movie wastes so much time on nothing.
Your comment is longer than the movie
@@danculbert6349If reading my comment takes longer for you than watching a two and a half hour movie then your education system clearly has failed you. Sorry to hear that.
But he needed the emperor alive to make his play for ascension by marrying the daughter... what are you talking about?
@@wookianer what would stop Paul from marrying the emperor's daughter even if the emperor would die? 🤔 Plus, I never said the emperor should die, so I dont know who you are answering to...
@@christophschutz4470that’s why they didn’t bomb the center it was more of a distraction they wanted the important people alive. Paul wanted revenge.
Zendaya can't act which shows you it was style over content. She is as bland as a concrete wall. A robot would create more emotion.
Exactly this, this Chani ended up being more infantalized than ever; 80% kiddy tantrums. Honestly, the writing was as bland as her acting.
So glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Feel like the world's gone mad.
I watched it today it was super lame it oveephyped I'll just stick to the original film and books tv series
Right on
Amen 😂
I watched something, I didn't like it, most people do
Most people must be mad
I alone am sane
I am so confused... how was this f'ed up so badly? I have to drop this here real quick(SPOILER):
In the book, there's a 2 year time jump just like the 2 years between movie releases conveniently. End part 1 with paul taking the water of life and Alia being born aswell as Paul's son leto. Then, after the real life 2 years between the movies part 2 opens after the time jump. Alia, fully grown after 2 years played by Anya taylor joy. Don't even need a real explanation. Then proceed the story just like the book. And Chani... so much time wasted on her unnecessarily changed character..
I'm in a rare camp in that I loved the first Dune movie. I'll preface that I had very little knowledge of Dune other than growing up in 80s. It made me want to dive into this world. Dune Part 2, I walked out of there empty. All the visual and sound praise it's gotten....sure. But story wise, character wise, and world building, completely empty.
Yup, I took my gummies... sat in the imax... cried... felt everything... and then the last act started seriously changing the story up... I felt my core twisting, and instead of enjoying the changes, my mind started comparing P1 w/ P2... I left the theater cold and disgusted.
6 hours if Villeneuve has nothing on 2.5 hours of Lynch.
I also watched Lynch first and then wanted to read the books. The performances and story-telling are so much more convincing. Lynch’s actors are all warm and vibrant, even the villains. Villeneuve is all visual aesthetic and very little real human connection.
same. the first dune made its world seem very big and mysterious. the second made it seem small and straight-forward. pretty disappointing.
I actually liked Dune 1. It gives the story details the time it needs.
Same exqct experience with both movies
So many important parts of the story left out. If you haven't read the books, half the crap in the movie make little sense as to why anything is happening.
that's how I feel
Where is Thufir?
Bro died in the assault (should have given him a death scene in P. 1) or will show up captured by harks/emp in next one I would guess. Probably similar to gurney he will show up in p. 3.
Christopher Walken was in his pajamas channeling Joe Biden.
Then he was channeling someone good, President Joe Biden. Unlike Dangerous Dumb Donald Treasonous Trump.
Christopher Walken actually spoke clearly though and he was kissing rings not sniffing kids.
@@Brydigan94You guys need to get out more.
@@jbibro Bro, I just got back from Mexico I was outside all day today. What more do you want?
@@Brydigan94 Connecting politics to everything is a downer. That’s all I’m saying. 😎
"Spectacle over substance"... 100% describes V's D1. So dull and drawn out, undewhelming. Lynch's Dune is frenetic and dreamy with strange depth.
Quality over Quantity.
Lol sure. Lynch hates that movie and I agree. It just looks like a porn parody by comparison!
What? You didn't like the single bagpipe guy leading the coronation in D1? I think his name was Ned. I think Lynch's Dune carried more weight, and did the heavy lifting this version lacked.
Lynch's Dune was way more dull and drawn out, trying to pack everything into one movie while managing to hit every lame sci-fi trope of the 80's.
@@kennykenevil57 😆 wrong
Was anyone else irritated/pissed off that Otheym was not even in this film?! Otheym has always been one of my favorite characters from Dune, even my PSN ID is Otheym. Was SO super excited to see him only to find out that his character was absent. 😢
Pros:
* Cinematography
* Costumes
* Sets/Locations
* Some Strong supporting roles
* Sandworm Riding Sequence
* Giedi Prime Sequence
* Fight Choreography
Cons:
* Surface level story snd themes compared to the novel and previous Sci-Fi Mini Series (despite having a longer run time than the entire miniseries)
* Poor characterisation of many characters
* Chani's radical character changes
* Zendaya's performance is lackluster
* The Emperor's changes and Chris Walken's performance
* Pacing issues in the last 3rd of the film
* Some shots are gratuitous and take more runtime than they deserve to
* Lackluster finale
If u made a piechart and weigh these pros and cons in them, you'd probably end up with Pros filling 95% of the chart. maybe u ll get away with 85, but nothing less just by how much the pros encompase.
@MsDsfreak Perhaps, though it largely depends on the viewer and what they value. My film-making critic side of my brain weighs things different than my Dune novel fan side, so it's ultimately mixed. I'd re-watch for a great cinematic experience, but for a story and something to think about in any depth afterwards I'll pass as it wasn't very deep at all compared to other comparable films and especially the book it is based loosely on. Glad others enjoy it fully though!
@@JCDenton3 I do think that story can be told by cinematography and it does hell fo a good job to give you the feeling of something mystical, as well as the fundamental themes of time and how these will affect Paul in part 2.
But I guess it will come down to a purist hard fanbase discussion, as it was with Lord of the rings. Where one side will point out any deviations from canon and not regard that devisations are necessary in other medias (especially that film can never encompase all messages, if you dont want to produe a 17h movie or a series, and directors will have to decide on what to focus on), while the other will disregard the canon for the experience.
@@JCDenton3
You say "many characters" were poorly characterized but your only examples were Chani and Shaddam. Chani was changed a bit, fair enough, but so long as she ends up with Paul, that's what matters. As for Shaddam, the Emperor barely appears in the book, so Walken had little to work with. He only appears on the last two or three chapters (out of 48 total), plus a handful of chapter opening quotes. And he fit the role exactly as in the books. The role of a frail, extremely old man, who's desperately clinging to his power and authority.
The finale, apart from the shot of Chani leaving (which ties into the previous complaint), was pretty accurate to the book. Paul defeats Feyd-Rautha in a duel, he threatens the Guild, and gets the Emperor to agree for Irulan to marry Paul. In other words, exactly like in the book.
Pacing issues and gratuitous shots seem like subjective complaints, so too bad for you, but I never felt any pacing issues, and appreciated every "gratuitous" shot.
This (Dune, parts 1&2) is the best and most faithful movie adaptation of DUNE we've ever had, and both me and my two pals I saw it with would give it a 8/10 minimum.
Part 2 had a lot less to work with (Part 1 adapted 33 out of 48 chapters, leaving only 15 for Part 2), so Denis added a few scenes. At first I was gonna use this as a complaint, but they still make sense within the overall story so it's all good.
Turning Jessica, Stilgar and Chani into vehicles for the film's message cheapened their characters and a whole host of stuff just gets mentioned without much of any explanation.
If it was its own generic scifi movie it'd be decent, bit a whole fuck load gets lost in adaptation from the books.
What I find disappointing is how the Scifi Miniseries (Director's Cut) managed to cover more of the plot with a better & more consistent sense of progression than these 2 movies did and in less time too. That miniseries & it's sequel (Children of Dune) had it's drawbacks, especially in budget fx but I think it did the best job of telling the story so far despite a few changes & condensing of plot & characters. As for Lynch's Dune, that will always be the one visually etched into my brain, especially as the cinematics in the Dune games followed it.... That leaves nothing really that I found the new films did better than the old material.
Dune part 2 felt rushed, neglected. And all we got in return is an infantalized Chani who throws tantrums whenever people do the things she suggests they should do. What a shame, as part 1 was quite alright.
Well, to be frank I have trouble concentrating on any Villeneuve movie because, whatever the story, the visual semantics always belong more to a luxury lifestyle magazine than to the story itself. It creates interferences.
So in this case the story was epic/mystical/political, but the images said "go spend your holidays in that luxury resort in Morocco where you will meet beautiful people".
Whoa! You are absolutely correct, sir! I just call his Dune films "Vignettes of Dune" cause they're not actual movies, but I gotta say, you make a good case for "Denis Villeneuve - Travel Agency Photographer"
Omg! You just described what I couldn't put into words 😱
I don’t get this take at all the set design in these movies are incredible are we even looking at the same thing. Pretentious take
All of his movies are pretentious. His best movie is probably Prisoners. But even that movie has some plot holes and inconsistencies.
Arrival was his best film, not only because it had a clever twist in the 3rd act, but because the conversations between the characters felt like actual plot progression taking place; intelligent professionals in consistent character discussing ideas in conversations that flowed naturally. Scenes actually felt like scenes and not as you put it, vignettes.
The movie is boring and slow, with poor storytelling. Part 1 and Part 2 could easily be combined into one movie. Zendaya is miscast; it's funny when she tries to act like a bad-ass and makes that stupid mean face.
This whole comment section is full of wrong opinions lmaooo
Combining them into one movie would literally be the worst possible way to approach Dune.
@@kennykenevil57yeah My opinion is it should have been three movies as that would have allowed for them to fit the things in that would have made the pacing right
@@techterror1282 This would have been great since the book is actually seperated into 3 sections.
Never seen a united comment section be so wrong lmao this is incredible
There was soooo much from the book that was left out of the movie. The spacing guild, Alia, the real death of the baron, Chani being the daughter of Kynes, the conversation between chani and Jessica about Paul marrying Irulan, Count Fenring being ordered to kill Paul after he defeated Feyd, and the list just goes on.....
So, it had to be condensed. The main story and the themes were intact. Go read the book. It gives all you want. Gives all you are willing to accept. Why even bother with the rest of this?
@donny1960 to give trolls like you something to bitch about. Literally all I did was talk about what got left out of the movie and you have to get offended like all the rest of the snowflakes on here. Good bye 👋
Because some people rather complain that find the good in things. Herbert had to endure the '80 movie. And he did with class. I think he would have loved the new movies. It was made by a fan of his books and it shows. The Spacing Guild was covered. Alia was in part 2 way more than the physical Alia was in the '80 version. The "real" death of the Baron?. He was killed by an Atreides as revenge for their Father. Done in the way of the Gom Jabbar. Mentioned the Baron was his Grandfather and then killed him like an "Animal". Was perfectly done. Shocking and satisfying. Again this movie covered all the bases of the book. And improved on some of the methods. It is being called one of the best movies ever made by a lot of people. It succeeded. Did not ruin anything.
@@donny1960 did you even read the book?? Literally NONE of what you just said was in the movie. Nothing I said in my op was incorrect. If you have a problem with that, then I suggest you go elsewhere, thank you.
@@donny1960 to piss off trolls like you with too much time on your hands. My point was that there was too much either left out or changed. Nothing I said was incorrect.
Super disappointed by part 2.
Same
What the actual f*ck is this movie?
Why do they call it Dune? It's missing ALL the key moments, turns, background, motivation and characters of the book. I just finished watching it and I'm furious. This was not Dune, it's a stupid dumpsterfire whitout any driving motif (they forgot to mention WHY IS SPICE SO IMPORTANT) or coherence with the source material.
Not even mentioning the bad acting, shit editing, timing, pace.
And FFS Jessica was pregnant for how many years again? Paul and Chani's firstborn? Paul's sister killing the Baron? Chani and Paul being truly in love, never doubling each other?
What the actual f*ck?
And people love it???
Dude the books are not as great as you portray them to be. Yes the movies took a lot of creative Executive decisions to shorten the run time, but the source material is trivial, it rambles, it is filled with plot holes and plot armors, so it's not like the movie bastardizes it
What are you talking about? The characters in the book never knew why spice is so important, we know because its in 3rd person. Only after talking the Water of Life did Paul realise that the Guild Navigators are all deathly addicted to spice.
@@archmaester6594 not exactly. it was revealed to paul and the readers why the spice was so important to the guild and why in the first book the guild is the main force they had to intimidate towards the end by threatening to destroy the spice. the navigators prescients was blocked by a universal "prescient wall" and paul even mentions how they've become helplessly addicted that they couldn't do the simplest things without it, including the BG. in the movie they just threaten the spice without explaining why it is so important or how its used. It is portrayed like "space gasoline", which it isnt.
It's great cinema, and a good adaptation. Yes there's missing parts, but you need a 10 hr miniseries to high all the high points.
They make the entire second half happen in a few months, which is so unrealistic and annoying.
Chani and Paul's relationship development felt rushed and at times very jarring.
one scene she's laughing at Paul, next scene she's helping him cheat his survival challenge.
One scene she's angry at the prophecy, next scene they're kissing in the tent.
Like wtf is going on? And y'all thought Anakin and Padme's love story was weird haha.
Ppl much more prefer absurd and sporadic love stories lol
95% of ppl seem to LOVE Chani and Zendaya’s acting
I don’t get it AT ALL, but it is what it is
@thecarter8700 99%? No. Sorry that's bs. No chemistry
@@el34glo59 Ppl loved her as Chani lmaoo .. I swear
Well, you see, couples are made of two people. Over the course of multiple months, they may agree or disagree on things. So when the film covers that vast amount of time, it also covers the start, ups, downs, and end of their relationship.
Thank you, I get it! And I feel the same. Then she slaps him in the face when he does
the most amazing thing and wakes up from drinking the water of life. This was so jarring
at such a perfect moment in the film.
Well, they turned Chani and Jessica into entirely different people, as they did Stilgar actually. Timothee Chalamet is a terrible actor and had a vacant expression the entire time. Zendaya was just scowling or looking slightly puzzled. The chemistry between her and Paul doesn't exist. He also ruined Alia already. I just hated it. I didn't like the first one either.
You just laid out every thing I felt towards the movies.
Zendaya with the angry toddler vibes...
There were a couple more issues for me:
1) The role of the spice in the universe of Dune is not remarked enough...people are fighting over it but, since they forgot to mention the Spacing Guild, its importance is never brought to centre stage
2) I hated that they used the word "fundamentalist" to describe the Fremen that lived South...it's a term that is used too often inappropriately in the current political discourse and in a discriminatory manner...what do they mean exactly? That they are believers? That they live their life differently? Never clarified, but there is a dangerous overlap between being religious and a "fundamentalist" I disliked
3) The Harkonnen planet was artsy but hollow...didn't communicate anything. It was obviously not a place fit for human life, even human life of psychos...the throat slashing was excessive and lost its punch after a while (yes they are all psychos, we get it). The cultist vibe I've got from the Harkonnen wasn't imho in the spirit of the books
4) Not even a little was explained of the mysteries of Arrakis, the nature of worms, the sand trout et.
5) The transformation of Paul was too rapid...they spent a lot of time repeating actions scenes of raids vs harvesters and then, all of a sudden, Paul drinks the Slush Puppie and becomes a badass....
6) Stilgar, poor Stilgar...
I'm sure that given a billion dollars and 20 hours of run time, Villeneuve would have done better. Just saying. The biggest problem is that kids just dont read anymore. I'm sure he had to contend with that thought. I read it first at 15, then again and Messiah at 22. But that was almost 40 years ago before social media became the Monster it is. Personally waiting for that Butlerian Jihad, lol.
@@charlessomerset9754 The biggest problem with fans nowadays is that they expect everyone to know everything before they go to enjoy a movie. The purpose of a motion picture is to let the people know what the thing it's made on or the source material really is through its writing, directing, editing and photography. If Dune has to depend on the reading of the source material beforehand to communicate, it fails miserably as a film. Compare this with The Lord of the Rings trilogy of films. They set up the premise and engross and captivate the audience through both storytelling and cinematography. I and a lot of people have never read the books but we absolute are LotR fans.
@@charlessomerset9754money rules all. This had to sell to pg13s and the entire international community. We will never get quotes like "Try looking into that place where you dare not look! You'll find me there, staring out at you!" on screen again.
@@AshrafAnam This trash bag of a movie "Dune" doesn't even come close to being as great as LotR. With ya on that. 👍🏻.. Hell , I liked David Lynch's movie better. At least it was interesting, weird and memorable. Dune is just a completely dead watch.
I am not an hardcore fan of the books though. And still I think that part 2 is an empty shell, more than 1. Little effort in world building which is why comparing this to LotR is madness.
2 movies and 5 hours later, and we’re still waiting for the story to start 😀
These films are beautiful, but hollow. I was impressed and bored at the same time.
Have you read the books?
Yes. All 6 Frank Herbert books. Admittedly that’s likely why I found the films lacking, because I thought they glossed over or left out so much important stuff.
@@elenaphisher244 But you do understand that it's impossible to fully and faithfully adapt Dune to the silver screen, right? A book is capable of telling a story in a way a film will never. You'd need to have a 10 hour + movie in order to include everything from the books. Hell, maybe even more time. Therefore, considering the time constraints of cinema, don't you think they did a decent job?
@@joaosantos5503it's not at all impossible. The miniseries had ONE HOUR LESS to work with than both movies, and they managed to nail 90% of the book. It didn't have an overly quick pace, either, so you can't claim it all happened too fast.
It IS possible. It's just not possible by half your runtime covering overly long self indulgent shots of spaceships landing, people walking through hallways and staring at each other intensely.
You gotta pick up the pace!
@@humbleopulence So you recommend it, then? And this would be the early 2000s mini series? I'd like to watch it. Would you say it adapts the books the best.
I loved part 1 and hated part 2 except for the visuals and sound. I didn't care about the characters the way I did in part 1
Totally what I felt. Looks like they were directed by two different persons
I kind of felt the same way. I was much more invested in the story of part 1.
Same I loved part 1. Part 2 was just a Paul victory lap with 0 adversity.
Bro, I absolutely hated Part 1. One of the most boring and monotonous movies I’ve ever watched.
I thought the Lynch Dune was better at giving more details and Paul seemed more powerful and charismatic.
And that's in one movie!
They changed many things (sound modules...) in the Lynch movie and touched stuff with one sentence which was only useful for people who read the book.
@@reinhard8053DV made far more egregious changes in his abominations
@@immortal5812 Egregious? Wow look at this book worm
@@kwzatsand worm
@@kwzat god forbid people have a vocabulary, simpleton.
The movies not being true to the book wouldn't have to be such a big deal, but you had the director himself explicitly claiming this would be the adaptation that is most faithful to the book.
Maybe it's the book that's the problem. It's supposed to be akin to Game of Thrones, everyone cynically jostling for power. In GoT, everyone acts rationally in their own best interests. In Dune, you haven't got a clue what the characters want or what they're aiming for. Absolute turd of a story.
@zootsoot2006 Mmmmm. Not really, man. It's pretty clear when you read the book.
the source material is the problem? What kind of mental gymnastics is this? @@zootsoot2006
I remember the director said this too. Can you find a source on the quote?
If youve seen the other adaptations you understand he is telling the truth. But at any rate, its not about the book as it is STILL an adaptation and a sensory buffet...
I had massive issues with the factionalization of the Fremen/Chani. Theoretically I like the idea of adding complexity to Fremen belief/culture, I just don't think this was done well, and DV might have made it worse. Herbert's inspiration for the Fremen came from Ibn Khaldun - his idea of 'Asabiyyah (group feeling/solidarity) is key here - but DV's (shallow) factionalization cuts against the themes/inspiration of the Fremen's longer arc: 'asabiyyah/unity being forged in a harsh environment, which allows them to usurp, but which is then lost as they achieve power/cosmopolitanism.
The very simplistic/binary split of North vs. South = Enlightened Skeptics vs 'Fundamentalists' felt extremely shallow and surface level of how splits in belief and culture actually manifest in such a tightly-knit community/culture, and totally misses what's interesting in the middle/margins. The split's artificiality also divorces the Fremen culture from FH's themes of how ideology/'assabiyah is rooted in ecological-sociological reality.
I also just didn't like the use of the term ‘fundamentalist’. Using/applying it to label all southerners just seems out of place in Fremen culture, and making out Stilgar/Southern ‘fundamentalists’ to be these gullible irrational fools completely negates the complexity of how deep culture/belief shapes your faculties and actions, influences eventualities, and misses the ways it can be wrestled with within the cultural context. It also trivializes the ecological/survival impetus of Fremen belief collapsing it into something purely ideological. In a way DV's approach is worse than just leaving all the Fremen as 'believers'.
I see what DV was trying to do, but adding the skeptic Northerners (an obvious modern/American insert) v Southerners ends up reinforcing/flattening the stereotype of the gullible native religious fool rather than nuancing it. DV seems to have brought a very modern/christian sensibility to belief, as opposed to what I imagine the Fremen (muslim/bedouin/Ibn Khaldun-inspired) belief/culture to be like and how FH understood it.
Making Chani a perfectly enlightened skeptic, without seeing how that would impact her perception by/of the Fremen society and relationship to Paul, didn't seem to be thought through properly and misses what makes her interesting as a character and her senses of duty (to the planet, culture, people, paul etc.). Chani storming off at the end also seemed to gloss over this, and Chani/a whole faction knowing about the Bene Gesserit plan of religious manipulation seems like a massive change with unexplored implications.
Regarding the film as a whole, while very beautiful/successful most of the time, there were also a lot of times where the movie began to feel a bit hollow/stifled by DV's style/editing and his stated aversion to dialogue. I also felt the architecture could have been a lot more ornate in Kaitan/the throne, and scenes like the armies outside with the flags seemed overly minimalistic/stylized to me, and despite the length a lot of the bigger moments felt very rushed. I also wish there was more of Irulan/Shaddam/Kaitan/Guild/CHOAM.
Overall though I enjoyed it for what it was and I'm glad it exists, but the changes to the religious/political themes and simplifications of the political machinations (and lack of Guild/CHOAM) were disappointing. I understand the need for the adaptation to streamline, but I'm worried that DV is missing some of the ways in which the themes/arcs are changed, and if he has the ability/had the foresight to account for this to redo Messiah. But I'll suspend my final judgment for when Part 3 comes out
The crazily overhyped response to this is also totally wild. It feels like internet culture knows/is told that Dune is considered to be very influential/smart/deep (which it is), and DV is hypercool, so people are tripping over themselves to explain why it's the best movie ever without actually engaging with it.
Spot on
@@pabloenriquetorresmorales1141 thanks!
@@pabloenriquetorresmorales1141 thanks!
I tought exactally like that about the treatment of Freemens religious belifes. In Children of Dune as an contrast, the freemens Who rejects Paul were the MOST religious radicals of the interior desert, from Jakurutu's Sietch.
"Enlighted secular freemen" just sound lame and cringe to me. Chani Zendaya was MCU MJ teleported to Dune...
"despite its length the bigger moments felt rushed" I felt the EXACT same way!!!!
You guys are spot on. Walked away from the film bored and disappointed. Dudes comments about Chaney turning into a girl boss is so true. Basically ruined the story in the movie.
Glad I found your review, helped validate what I was thinking.
I'd rather see a "girl boss" character as you put it, that actually is conflicted and more accurately portrays how almost anyone would react to the situation before them, than a subservient fangirl.
@@kennykenevil57strife changes a person. It's a reality that many do not understand these days. Terrible demonstration of who Cheney was as a character in the world that she was in. Fine yoo-hoo goes to Starbucks on the weekends. Would probably react like she did in the movie but that's not how you would act if you grew up in Cheney's shoes.
@@techterror1282 How about you learn to articulate your points better before saying anything, I don't even know what you're trying to say. And her name is Chani not Cheney.
This movie is so incredibly rushed. Paul goes from not knowing anything about the fremen ways to being one of their best warriors to riding a sandworm, and none of the training is shown. Him and Chani fall in love after 3 scenes and Paul's mindset and character completely changes after a vision that supposedly "changed everything" yet we weren't shown any of it. Being able to see many futures and possibilities sounds so cool but instead of showing that we spend 5 minutes learning about a windmill. He legit woke up a different person and we weren't shown why. I wish Paul got an actual arc instead of Denis speedrunning his character development because he spent the entire first movie on the prologue.
as someone who hasn't read the books, I'm glad you agree that there wasn't a buildup to paul's 'breaking point' and his decision to go south and take the water of life (which didn't even feel like a breaking point to me). it felt like that should've had much more weight than the harkonnen carrying out one attack
Fortnite slurp juice, hand it over
I’m so happy that there is someone out there who agrees with me.
100%.
Also difficult to be invested in the idea Paul is CONFLICTED about his conquest when all the "enemies" are generic bad guys(who have been dehumanised).
Yes, enjoy your little echo chambers lmfao. You people are pathetic.
"He who controls the toejam controls the universe"
Ok what kind of contrarian nonsense is this
What kind of nonsensical comment is this?
lol Dune isn’t your thing. That’s okay.
This is literally a quote from the book
@@Elden_Cock_Ringthe actual quote is, he who controls the totally real manuscripts Frank left, controls the franchise :)
Who controls the meth production rules the market
As a book reader myself, this felt very nitpicky and ignorant to the language of cinema. As much as I love all the in depth lore dumps of Dune and do totally get being upset at not getting a ton of that, I also think Denis is able to visuallly communicate the small things really well. Unfortunately, you can't just have characters explain the world and lore all the time without it feeling completely contrived, that's why I think a lot of Denis' changes make perfect sense for a film.
Some stuff I agree on, removing some of the Chani backstory is a weird choice, but I get it and the further changes to her character to give the story a little more drama and to give a pretty big change for book readers at the end, not sure how Messiah will look with Chani potentially not being around. The Alia change is unfortunate but again, I get it, it's either have a super smart two year old, go forward further than the books but risk mucking up the whole timeline more than need be, or do the visually interesting unborn thing. Sad about the implications for a potentially CoD film however, Denis has stated he only intends to do up to Messiah and honestly, as much as I love all the Dune books by Frank Herbert, they do get into unfilmable territory at Children of Dune anyways.
Children of Dune is my favourite and as much as I would love to see it filmed, it's deffo near impossible. Dune part one got me into the books, I wasn't a huge fan of part two but I hope it gets people into the books like part one did for me :)
It's been filmed already...sucky SciFi channel version@@RJay_Mac
@@RJay_Mac Children of Dune miniseries was good
If Villeneuve does something similar as in break up CoD into couple films it might work
Whatever DV accomplished through his visual representation was torn down for his complete lack of adhering to the narrative of the story. Few of the characters were true to their book counterparts to the point that key events are now completely different, as well as pacing of the overall story. Nothing is the same by the end of Dune part 2. 70% of the events in the movie just don't take place, and the events that do are not true to the book.
Yeah, like... for at least the part I could be arsed to sit through, all I really was thinking was "it's okay guys, you're allowed to just say you don't like movies."
But then they wouldn't have anything to ragebait about.
Chani looking Paul in the eyes saying "i'm not doing this gor you, i'm doing this because i'm Fedyken" perfectly exemplifies my frustration with this movie.
"It's been a big day"
Not to mention great lines such as "We are in deep Fremen sh*t"
@@isaacxcii4289 "I would very much like to be equal with you"
@@eddiedead2702I don’t find anything wrong with this line, though. It’s unusual, but it’s fine for him.
@@isaacxcii4289 they are tho
I'm confused about why in some scenes they have machine guns and attack helicopters and rpg like laser beams but then in the final battle scene or even in the first movie they're all fighting hand to hand with sword's??
Like what???😂😂
Film doesn't explain it, but its because a lasgun hitting a shield can cause a nuclear explosion.
They were just boring movies because they lacked good storytelling.
😂😂😂 wow, this made me gag lol
@@keanenfulton4696 it was a boring movie bro.
😭
The scene that irritates me the most was where Stilgar tells Paul he has to cross the erg and come back. He hands him a stilltent and asks him if he knows how to use a paracompass. Paul then starts on what is supposed to be a solo journey to show that he has learned enough to survive in the desert. Then Chani shows up and basically tells Paul that he is too weak to make this simple journey himself so she is going to help him cheat his way to success.
Both characters ruined in one scene just to inject the 'love story'. Crap, crap, crap.
Wow. Way to miss the point ey.
@@joshuahendricks9558what point?
@@techterror1282 Paul is not the Messiah. He was not capable of completing the feat of survival in the desert alone. He is an imposter. That is why Chani is so upset throughout the movie as people bow down to him. She knows the truth but nobody will listen to her.
@@ABC-sc2ip But Paul is the Messiah - as in he is the one that the Bene Gesserats created the prophecy about. This movie destroys everything that Paul is. He is mentat-trained, trained in the Bene Gesserat ways - he is actually more than the Ultimate being - he is something different. His son, Leto, is the one who actually does what he fought against doing.
@@ABC-sc2ip "He shall know your ways as though born to them" We just completely ignoring this part, huh? He knew how to fasten a stillsuit correctly, he knew how to sand walk enough to make a long crossing in the open desert, he knew how to use a sand tent, sand compactor, etc etc. He knew all of these things in the first movie, and he just suddenly is incapable of making a shorter trip than the trip he made after the ornithopter went down?
Go back to reason, ABC 123
I wanted to like it everybody says it’s great, I thought the dialogue kinda sucked, the love story was cringy asl, there was super cool themes and lil nuggets of the dopest most creative shit but the battles except for the beginning, was pretty cool but the visuals were sick I didn’t like Paul I thought the harkenens were done rlly well but everything felt kinda flat, I don’t understand why stuff happens it likes glosses over stuff. Idk it was just underwhelming.
How I’m feeling
My feelings exactly
The dialogue was just bad. Too much time spent on 'Look at Paul, he is stupid, I hate him. Yeah, me too, haha'
All the villains went from terrifying to comicbook stupid and the protagonist achieved victory with little to no adversity.
i was shocked how easily they won and shocked at seeing the barren killed so easily
In his rush to Paul into a cult leader, Denis ended up turning him into a Mary Sue girl boss. Which ironically had the opposite effect on young men who added him to the "literally me" character pantheon.
...That's how it happened in the book though. They caught them off guard with their pants down for a quick and brutal victory. The entire battle of Arrakeen was a single chapter that my have also included the Feyd dual and ending.
I just finished watching it and I literally cannot remember if there was any type of conflict in this movie. Like... Genuinely. Maybe if anything there was manufactured tension between zendaya and timothee's characters toward the end? But they didn't really have a relationship established anyway
Did you forget that he could see the future? He chose the easiest route.
Also, worst casting decision was Zendaya and Walken. Worse than Chalamet.
100% These so-called actors sure don't seem to be able to act. Florence Pugh isn't that great either. Neither is Anna Taylor-Joy for that matter, this new generation of "actors" need some lessons. Caleb Landry is great.
By an order of magnitude, I'd say. Zendaya's team is very powerful, and uses current times as their advantage. Zendaya is ethnically ambiguous, child star from Disney (thus has followers), fashion icon, her celebrity prowess is not little. There is nothing to be said about her acting chops. Even in Euphoria she gives mildly good part, but is praised to high heavens.
Chalamet actually comes off as a better actor next to her, and quite frankly is, just probably miscast and Villeneuve is not famous for being able to utilize the talent he has had.
I think walken was ok, pugh did a good job in this one but I still think irulan is miscast. Should have been Lea as irulan instead of margot. Maybe even austin butler as paul would have been better. Then the girl that played alia in the vision as chani. If we had to use already existing actors in the movie for the big roles.
Factions within the Fremen is fine. The problem with the movie was that it made factions within factions. The tribe was divided amongst themselves rather than between tribes which goes against the books because a divided tribe does not survive.
In my opinion this movie is triumph of form over content. And very poor selection of actors. Through whole movie i'v got a feeling, that characters portraited are just dumb, stoned crackheads with rationality deficit.
It was respectable but to call this a masterpiece just proves how much people are starving for “good” movies again.
I mean just look at lineup of movies since the year started. Weak af. This year we are getting blockbusters like a quiet place 2...Road House remake... Nosferatu... like the year could not look more boring
They are calling it a masterpiece because that's what they believe, and I believe it too. It seems this is the den of Dune haters lol. I don't get why many here hate it but that's fine, to each their own.
"Starving for good movies again" Dune 2 was originally scheduled to be released fall of 2023 and 2023 had good share of excellent movies: Oppenheimer, Killers of the Flower Moon, The Zone of Interest, Anatomy of a Fall, The Boy and the Heron. Are you not aware of these movies?
If this was masterpiece then what was terminator 2 ?? Askk the kids😂
This. I love the book but I knew they weren’t going to be able to capture all the story and lore. I went for the sound and visuals and was very pleased
Good to find a review that goes against consensus. I'm probably even weirder because I thought the first movie was great and did not like the second one. I did read the first book, but like 20 years ago. For me the first one was a much better planned out movie in terms of scenes and plot, though understandably it was a simpler plot and easier to do. There are too many scenes in this that got boring and didn't add anything, and then so many missed opportunities.
-The Chani relationship just seemed odd and took up too much time. Didn't like her as a character and she was annoying.
-Harkonnens seemed far less ominous than part 1, and acting more like NPC villians. Why did they give Feyd 'honor' in the final fight, should have kept him as a psycho, and given him the poisoned needle or w/e was in the books. I didn't get it.
-Emperor was poorly cast, seemed like a frail old man that should have retired long ago.
- Alot of it felt 'rushed', even though it was a long time. I think many scenes could be cut (nuke scenes seemed odd, too many Paul desert scenes), and others should have been added.
Excellent review mate 👏 I felt the same watching this farce of a movie
Same thing for me.
The first had really strong, consistent worldbuilding and interesting ideas to set up part 2.
The characters were (at least somewhat) relatable and the villains felt menacing.
All of it was subverted in the second part, there were inconsistencies with the first film all over the place.
To name a few:
Spitting is a sign of respect but crying for the dead is a waste of water?
The Fremen are introduced as endogamous and religious people yet Chani can have a romantic relationship with Paul before he even becomes a full member of them?
The Harkonnen are supposed to be cunning and tough yet they almost always fight were the enemy has the advantage and drop like flies as a result of it.
There are many more but those alone undermine central aspects that were set up in the first film and broke my immersion.
People praise it as the new Empire Strikes Back but for me personally it's more like The Last Jedi (grossly exaggerated).
I agree that the first film is much much better, especially as an adaptation. They actually took time to develop things, even though it was still sort of fast. But part 2 was hyper speed through some events that would take years to develop organically. What ever happened to a good ole montage? Haha
They did Stilgar so dirty 😑
Same thing here. I thought the first one was great and I wanted more. It was well-paced, it introduced to this whole new world and gave you enough to go even if you didn't read the books (which I have not), the dialogue flowed, the action scenes were tight, etc. This second instalment... the complete opposite.
First, I felt it was confusing if you did not know the lore. What exactly are the powers of the Bene Gesserit? How does this telepathy/prophecy thing work? It just seems that some kind of magic appears when convenient. Why are these "houses" rivals? It just seems like the Harkonnens are evil for the sake of being evil, which is boring. The Baron is Paul's gradfather... ok, so what? It felt like a bad take on the Darth Vader reveal (and more like the bad Rey-Palpatine reveal!). What is the emperor's political role? All the political intrigue was just so badly done. Even the logistics of it. Where are the Fremen getting all this equipment from? They barely have any water, but seem to have a massive arms manufacturing capacity!! Compare this to Andor, where we delve into how the Rebellion gets its funding.
Second, the dialogue was cheesy. To make yet another Star Wars comparison (yeah, sue me), the Paul/Chadi relationship was more like Anakin/Padme than Han/Leia.
Third, the action scenes were a bore. In two ways. On the one hand, they were badly shot. It was unclear who was shooting at whom and where everything was. Compare this to, say, Mad Max Fury Road. On the other hand - and more importantly - there was never any tension. You never felt the characters were in any danger. The good guys shoot slash or punch better than the bad guys, end of story. The only exception was the first action scene where they actually had a challenge (getting through the shield) and had to resolve it and you felt some tension. After that, those dragon-fly helicopter things were just falling out of the sky like it was the easiest thing to achieve. Then Feyd-Rauhta shows up and the Harkonnens start winning. Why? Because of the power of his will? If they knew where the Fremen lived, did it seriously not occur to anyone to just bomb the whole mountain before Feyd arrived? Seriously?! The tide of the war changed for no particular reason, other than that the screenwriters decided so. Even the final one-on-one duel was a bore. He just pulls out a secret blade he had stashed away somewhere. How convenient! A deus-ex machina of hand-to-hand combat, and I knew it was coming. So predictable, so boring.
@@georgeskanoute3814I think the blade came from his abdomen where Feyd put it a few moments before.
As a movie for the portion of the audience not familiar with the books, the movie was ok. Unfortunately for the rest of us, a big mess. I have probably an unpopular opinion but I believe the Sci-fi miniseries was the most faithful adaptation to date.
Matt here, I am 100% in agreement with you. The sci-fi series is my favorite adaptation!
Whole structure of the both movies is: X has to happen… (X happens just 30 seconds later). No build up, no tension. Just things… happening😂
Or... Paul has to do this. Okay, now it's 3 months later, but also only 3 days later. Paul did the thing or something. Who cares this is happening right now. You love this. Next on the checklist...
Agree about the spacing Guild Navigators, one of the most important things in Dune universe, the guild that has monopoly over space travel and the main reason why spice is mined in large quantities, is cut completely from both movies... now it is just another Star Wars.
The guild gets a voiceover explanation and you're shown their representatives. Actual navigators weren't shown in the book either until the very end.
@@Falcrist thats the thing, it is only shown/mentioned in a couple of seconds in the beginning of the first film... I wouldnt be surprised if the majority of the audience who do not know the lore of dune completely forgot about the guilds existence.
@@loz9324 if you forget about the spacing guild after it's explained and then shown to you, that's not the movie's fault. It's your fault.
Same with the miniseries, which spends a similar amount of time explaining and then showing you a navigator that wasn't in the book.
Maybe adult movies aren't for you. Go back to Disney.
@@Falcrist first of, I HATE disney films but I love Dune. Part one was fantastic and I love all the other adaptations and enjoyed what I got through in the book. The fact you kicked off your reply with that shows you are arguing in bad faith and are unable to have a real discussion on the matter beyond namecalling because your upset someone pointed out flaws in the media you like. That said, I did not forget about the guild, quite the opposite in fact - they said very little about them and through the whole second film I was expecting at least a little bit more of them. It was on my mind the whole time as I was looking forward to it.
The extend of their mention was only in the beginning of the first and roughly along the lines of "The spacing guild uses the spice to fold space, which is how people travel. Thats it - nothing else about how big of a player they are in EITHER FILM. That does not convey that they are important - it's like "hey these guys use the spice"
Also, it's not on the audience if they forget about an important piece of information, it's on the filmmaker for not conveying its important properly. All this leads me to think that in this adaptation, they literally aren't important. And this is only a single issue I have with pt 1 and 2 as a whole. Pt 1 had great pacing and I felt like it was setting up so much intrigue, drama, and struggle in pt 2... but when I finally watched part 2 I was seriously disappointed that these details were completely absent. I badly wanted more depth and less surface level spoon feeding and action... but ya go off about how "adult movies aren't for me" when I'm literally asking for more than surface level spectacle lmao
@@loz9324 You don't love Dune if you want it dumbed down or if you forget that the guild isn't present until the very end when we see the two navigators. This is just like the people complaining about the emperor not being in the first film.
If you forget about something that's literally explained to you and then shown immediately after, then this isn't the story for you. Go back to disney.
I'm not sorry that this is triggering for you. I sincerely hope nobody listens to your requests to disnefy these films.
A 3 hour movie that felt like 6 hours with enough content to fill 90 minutes.
Felt like they should had put Dune part 1 and part 2 into a full movie, barely anything happend.
having finally seen this film I have to say that I found it deeply irritating and unsatisfactory. maybe if I was not so familiar with the book I might have enjoyed it more.
no, if you had read the book, you would be WAY more pissed off.
@@usagikitti3062 I read the books and it almost made me feel physical pain when I was watching the movie. And then I went to read the reviews....
@@user-baev same. Dune part 2 pissed me off
Yup. Glad Im not the only one. Villeneuve interpretation is beautiful from outside but empty from inside.
well put!
Sadly I agree. Just got back from seeing it. And I loved part one! I just think the story is kinda mid. I was hoping for more.
I feel heretical for not enjoying or liking the film (obligatory sentence to say that I enjoyed the first Dune and I'm not opposed to sci-fi whatsoever).
Yet, this film felt flat. A montage of set-pieces. No central narrative, no direction, comically bad acting (frown/grimace/scowl). The Emperor was pathetic, and his daughter - why was she against him? Nothing was explained. Why did Paul want to marry her? He'd only just met her.
So many bizarre things - why the focus on the weird, baldy bloke? What was the point?
I can't believe this is from the same director who did Bladerunner 2049, which I consider a modern classic.
Honestly, I think Herbert's story is weak - it was more about the world-building, and less about character development and motivations.
A confusing film. The only good thing was the occasional levity.
The book is amazing, this director is not. Try looking at previous Dune movies & miniseries - they were done so much better as far as story telling goes.
Paul’s character is diminished and his character’s decisions are give to other characters in the book. Paul alone decides to take the water of life - why did they take this major decision from him. The emperor is a weak character in the movie. His daughter steals his lines and has to explain to him why he should go to dune.
And so much more is wrong.
If you read the books don’t put yourself through this nonsense.
In the book, Paul took the Water of Life after he failed to foresee that Gurney would try to kill Jessica. In the movie, it's after failing to foresee the attack on Sietch Tabr. That's a positive change.
The Emperor is weak in the book, that's why he was threatened by Leto and had him killed. Also what line did Irulan steal? The Emperor had more to do in the movie than the books.
@@archmaester6594 -
@@archmaester6594 The Emperor in the book still came from a position of power. In the film he was crying that Leto had heart and wobbling around in silence like Joe Biden after 24 hours without handlers. The reason he attacked Leto in the movie isn't really given. In the book it was because he feared Leto's popularity in the Landsraad council as well as between Gurney and Duncan the Atreides army was arguably as good as his Sardaukar. Much of this having to also do with the fact that Duncan is one of 3 sword masters that exist in the universe. So you have a political and military threat. It just made sense.
@@archmaester6594 it was also because during the attack on Sietch Harkonnens killed his and Chani's firstborn son.
The book: Paul's son is killed, he fails to forsee the threat from the person he trust, and understands, that taking the water of life is necessary for them to win.
The movie: Harkonnen attack Sietch (oh no, the enemy has retaliated), his son is replaced with Chani's girlfriend that nobody, including the movie itself, gives a shit about, Paul talks to Jamis Force Ghost (what?), and then decides to go and take the water of life.
How is that nonsense a "positive change"?
Because of "muh strong female characters", that's why. Feminazism. As if the Bene Gesserit wasn't powerful already in the book, lmao. For leftists, there is no such thing as enough power.
To be completely fair there is no way to do the books justice unless it is long form multi episodic season. Jamming it all into 5 or 6 hours is tough. You must also remember that the director is known for and speaks openly of visual over dialogue / story. I realize it’s not going to please hard core book fans (of which I’m one of Dune, Messiah, Children of, God Emperor, etc.) but be thankful it’s getting attention and breathing life back into Dune. We may yet get some adaptations down the road that are more narratively driven. Time will tell but I don’t hate the movies I guess the way you guys do - to each his own I just tend to set my expectations down a notch when it comes to movie adaptations. I learned to do this after reading To Kill a Mockingbird and then seeing the movie which absolutely did not do the book justice but was decent at capturing the spirit of the book.
His visuals are dull af. Once you've seen one of his films, you've seen them all.
Dune is a bad movie because if the movie not the books. The fight scenes are not choreographed that well. The big battles do t have enough actions. The sand worms are rarely ever shown and his sister was reduced in part. All of these things simple needed a better director to make possible. The overall story could stay mostly the same and about 15 minute of slow shots could have been cut and 15 minutes of action shot had been added in and you’d have a better movie. Also zendaya cant act. So everytime she had to convey any emotion other than anger if brought the film down.
@@iamrysheemno
@@DundG clearly i disagree.
@@iamrysheem Jep, obviously. So why this unnecessary reply?
It looks good but it ain’t good. Just a 3 hour perfume commercial that smelt bad
I like sci-fi movies and really tried with this movie watch the first one twice and couldn’t get into it
@@rafaelmarquez8886then you don’t like science-fiction.
Mary Sue becomes emperor of the universe in less than 8 months.
@@ManSeekingMeaningStfu lol Just coz you like it, doesn’t mean the movie is good
@@ManSeekingMeaningdune is not sci-fi. It’s trash.
No Space Guild and No Spice in a Dune movie is like No Jedi and No Force in Star Wars.
in all fairness, the Spacing Guild is only present in the ending of the book - and even then, we don't get an actual fish-person Navigator in the book.
I didn’t read the books, and I walked out bewildered and disappointed. I feel the need to read the books to redeem the story for me. Thank you for making me feel sane for not liking either of these films.
Zendaya can't act. She always brings any project down with her bad acting.
nah she was pretty good in euphoria. there’s only so much one can do with a shitty script like this one though
Exactly this. Maddening. Same for Bautista. Why do they keep casting this baboon.
The last 20 minutes is 80% close up of Zendaya scowling....which what she did the whole movie. Biggest wet blanket character.
@@Coolsville77 it’s not her fault man, there’s only so much an actor can do when the director is a self indulgent prick with bad taste. poor woman had to mysteriously slow-mo walk around a desert, saying nothing, doing nothing, yet somehow keeping it entertaining for hours, idk how she did it. i would have bursted out laughing by the 5th dramatic seductive head turn into the camera
Bro this tells me you’ve literally not seen her in anything else 😂
Loud fart noises and "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" mystical sining, every fucking 5 minutes really takes the epicness away. Same goes for, when EVERY SINGLE FUCKING SCENE is grand, slowmotion riddled and full of intense closeups, it just loses its wind... REALLY FAST. total garbage movie, for real. Actual legit garbage movie. First one was great, so what gives
lol literally! Every fucking scene with Paul whenever he does anything whether it's walking or sitting down looking dramatically at the horizon the music is full blown EARRAPE 😂
And how some scenes make TOTAL sense, like when he randomly asks for another woman’s hand, while being in love with Chani. And the love story with Chani where nothing’s explained, no chemistry just a boring kiss in the middle of the desert.
A boring kiss, what did you want to see her do in the middle of the desert.
LOL. Paul's marriage to Irulan is NOT "random". She's the eldest daughter of the Emperor, which means she's the most eligible woman in the Imperium. She's also Bene Gesserit-trained, and under orders to bear the Imperial heir - orders she's unable to carry out, due to Paul's love for Chani and insistence that only Chani will bear his children in spite of her status as concubine.
Paul married Irulan as the easiest, quickest way to become Emperor. Absolutely nothing about that was random. It was a power move, and love has nothing to do with it. That's how royalty has done things for tens of millennia, and there are ample precedents in real history.
I disagree, Zendaya as Chani is the best part of the movie. I loved it.
Zendaya was miscast as Chani in this movie, and the Chani character itself was butchered by Villanueve.
Just say you don't know shit about Dune rather than saying marrying Irulan was random 💀
I honestly want to watch the lynch version now just to understand the story
Read the book
@@archmaester6594 i read the book but i want to see if its even adaptable to the screen
@@winwinmilieudefensie7757 Watch the 2000/2003 miniseries. They cover the first 3 novels (Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune). The costumes are goofy, William Hurt and Susan Sarandon are miscast, and the rest is pretty damn good.
That movie is great!
Better watch the mini series. Much nearer to the books.
The movie doesn't capture the tension in the books, the main thread in the book is that Paul is trying to win without causing jihad. That is what the tension is about once his powers are awakened he basically cannot lose, but it's about how he can win in a way that isn't a giant loss for the galaxy.
Some how... and till the day I die this will never cease to shock me.... but some how, the best part about Dune 2 ended up being that popcorn bucket.
critical damage review jon
😂
True true
I am just confused on why this movie is rated so high
I feel like it's a vacuum right now as far as good blockbuster movies. That and the dying theater industry needing people to go. The whole "Barbenheimer" thing last year. Now this tripe. People are just desperate for things to be normal again, for movies to be "incredible", they're inflating the value of anything not overtly woke.
your IQ needs to be above 100 to understand it
@malcador or maybe people really like it?
@@tuff_trooper755 I can understand liking it. Masterpiece? Cultural phenomenon? Movie of the decade? Give me a break.
Bots, shills
Did anyone else also notice how incredibly miscast this movie is as well? Timothy and Zendaya do not fit their characters at all.
Agree with Zendaya, but Timothy is Paul to a T as described in the book
Timothy was not miscast. His flat affect is definitely a directors choice, its consistent throughout both films. Blame the director
What’s a movie he is good in?? 😂😂
@@710moose8All of them.
Paul sister is not born and does not kill the baron SO essentially THEY cannot make the other parts because the baron taking possesion of pauls sister is a large part of the story!!!! 😮
While I dislike her exclusion from the movie too, her killing the Baron isn't completely necessary for him to possess her down the line. He isn't able to possess her because she killed him, but because he is her grandfather. Technically anybody in her ancestry could have done it, too. In book three, for example, the memory of Chani almost possesses Ghanima. So technically they could adapt Children of Dune and still have the Baron take her body, and with the same motivation - revenge against the Atreides for defeating him.
If this film really is Timothy Chalamet and Zendaya mooning about for 90% of the movie, then I would rather not bother watching it.
Agree they should've included Leto II and Alia. But there's an error in the analysis (14:15m-) in saying Leto's death motivates Paul's drinking the Water of Life. The Battle of Sietch Tabr and Leto's death happen later, just before the Battle of Arakeen. Paul hears the news in a radio message interrupted by static caused by the storm hitting the Shield Wall. Alia allows herself to be taken prisoner by Sardaukar because she doesn't want to tell Paul of his son's death. Paul accepts the news as a terrible fact but has to suppress grief to lead battle, fight a kanly duel, and maneuver enemies politically to become emperor.
What motivates him to drink the Water of Life earlier is another incident omitted from the film: after reuniting with Paul, Gurney attempts to kill Jessica in the belief she was the traitor who betrayed Leto and the Atreides. Paul convinces him that he was misled by explaining Yueh's note, Leto's confiding he'd play along with the trick, his parents' love, and Jessica's mourning after. But he decides to drink the Water of Life because he'd had no vision of that threat from Gurney and needed to overcome such blindness if he could.
I found the film mediocre in the most important elements of plot, character development, dialogue, themes, casting, acting, and rich realization of the story world (with too many details missing). Incredibly the central role of the Spacing Guild was even absent as the organization that monopolized interstellar travel and used the emperor to safeguard Spice production, which Navigators depend on to see ahead in time and chart safe courses for ships--not to "fold space," the navigator power of teleportation weirdly invented for Lynch's 1984 film. The Guild's role is also important for the allegorical parallels with the oil industry in the Middle East. The importance of the Spice is far better presented in Lynch's film but completely lost in Villeneuve's, which only excels as visual spectacle (with a better soundtrack also).
Good articles have been written about how Villeneuve erased Arab culture from the film. There's much to criticize, but enough for now.
Definitely the most overrated and overhyped movie of 2024.
And also a complete disrespect of the source material.
I feel like I'm insane... I thought this movie was an absolute train wreck. I kept checking my phone to see if the reviews were a joke and fake, because I couldn't believe that I just wasn't getting absorbed by the story.... I had trouble following literally everything. I had watched the 1st movie but realized it was so unmemorable that I had forgotten about it, and then was thinking I would be reminded about the 1st movie by them explaining it away, and they did an awful job if that. I felt lost... I felt like I didn't know what the whole point was. I was creeped out by the Harkonens... and the dialogue just seemed nonsensical. The visuals were amazing but also seemed like action just there just for the sake of action. Where tf was the plot?! SO disappointed.
Chanis character was so annoying and made no sense. She kept contradicting herself in each scene.
In all reality, everything she said in that movie was objectively true. Despite the changes to her character from the book, she's right in the movie.
@@stephengrant4841 no way. She changes motivations after every single scene
@@RisitasKEKW I mean, not really. She loves Paul when he refuses to follow the false prophecy, after he himself says it isn’t real, and the second he starts to manipulate her people by pretending it’s real she loses respect for him.
Villeneuve fixing Dune... Geez, that must be probably the most clueless ego in the whole Hollywood. Somebody stop these people, please....
The problem is that for some unexplained reason at the end of the movie, Chani is the online remaining person fully opposed to Paul and the position he is in. Why? What makes her so special. She should actually trust him more not less. If she is a rebel, than at least make it believable. Give her backstory or reason to be opposed to Paul. But she simply is because of it.
It's pretty stupid...like wtf she gonna do? Paul is Nietzsche's fucking overman.
It is evident through the movie that Chani distrust Paul from the get go but also something to him that intrigues her that eventually turns in to love, however it is made clear that she hates the fanatic religion types of the Freman, but despite this they pursue the relationship. The message of the Dune is of thinking critical and not following blindly prophets and messianic figure. Paul is not a Hero but a cautionary tale of a false messiahs. Chani in the movie is being used as an opposing view to highlight that what Paul is doing is wrong and the Jihad to follow will kill billions of people including her people and destroy her people for who she has been fighting so hard. In the end Chani gets betrayed and decides, even though she loves Paul she knows that she needs to follow her convictions and be true to herself. Which is depicted in her calling the Sandworm. She is going her own way
@@lukeovermind First, why does she distrusts him more than everyone else in the beginning. The movie never explains what special background makes her think like that but pulls it out of thin air. What motivates her belief? Because its not in the book, it is not a problem there but in the movie, it requires an explanation. Additionally, Paul has not done anything non beneficial to the Freemen yet (and he actually won't do so at all). From the Freemens perspective, he literally is their saviour. If he was cruel or would misuse his powers, the criticism towards him as a ruler would be understandable but that is simply not the case. The books do a much better job and showing his fallacy (especially in the second) book. The ending of the second movie completely subverts this message because out of thin air, Paul decides to start a holy war against the entire universe without any motiviation to do so (except the nonsensical one they made up). In the books, he simply looses control over the Freemen because he cannot control what they want to believe and how they interpret his teachings, which he thought he could manage after drinking the water of life. That is the entire point of the first 2 books of Dune and its completely lost in the movies.
I like the director but he really dropped the ball on Dune. I'll take David Lynch's version any day over this new version.
U both explained my issues with this movie perfectly. As some1 who didn’t read the books but wishes 2 upon seeing this movie I felt the same that it was lacking in some areas but I couldn’t understand Y. I did say that Paul and chanis relationship in the movie was very underdeveloped and shoulda been expanded upon more. It just felt off having Chani just like Paul so fast without much context as 2 Y, another thing is the sandworms like u both said I kept asking so many questions abt them and thought this movie would deliver but it didn’t. It just felt like 2 me that so much was cut out that shoulda been explored more such as the great houses, spice, the guild, The HOLY WAR. I did enjoy the movie however I gave it a solid 8 and nothing more but I feel once I read the books that might change, maybe not who knows I definitely respect both of ur opinions keep growing and remain strong.
Completly agree, even without reading it fells deeply uncomplet and thus the chracters actions just come off as random. I therefore felt very curious as to what the book says cause sure it had to have some depth to it compared to the movie which was just boring
So great that there are still people, who say truth about this movie.
Hate the movie, hate how everyone praises it.
Disgrace to the books.
I have mixed feelings, i feel like either the film could have been shorter (both) or there should have been more lore dumps like explaining how the fremens knives are from the sandworm or more about the mentats but just more explanation as to why the world is the way it is
Ive read the books so i understand why they arent using shields on dune or my the mentats are super smart... but to the layman it must come across like random stuff happening on screen
So why don’t they use shields? And why don’t they use guns?
I was just taken so many times out of the movie by this constant knife attacking. Just why. Why not guns why not guns for defense tactics? Almost freudian with this insisting on knives.
So in the books normally people have shields that can repel weapons fire due to the velocity of the projectile. They use knives because it can penetrate the shield without "setting it off" due to the slower speed. They don't use shields on dune because they piss off the worms. It's been a while since I read the book so if I'm wrong someone please correct me. Hope this helps.@@andreyzhuchkov1882
Indeed, as a non-reader it all comes across as random. The plot feels uncomplet is what I mean. and thus the characters action make little to no sense
ah it'll cause smth akin to mini atomic blast that's what i gather them not using shields and guns.
@@andreyzhuchkov1882 because activated shield in the desert would piss off every worm in the couple of miles around you. Also, because yeah, they have a nasty habit of exploding like a small nuke when shot by lasers. But the thing is that the shields are not that common, so really, the only reason why everybody was going into a knife fight and didn't brought a gun to it was because Villeneuve wanted some cool hand-to-hand combat sequences.
His changes to the Fremen culture disrupt the overall themes of the book. The Fremen are supposed to be like Islamic jihadis. The whole point is that Paul, who is a moral person, Is backed into a corner by his visions of the future and the terrible choices he is forced to make. Imagine you are on present day earth, You have visions of what absolutely must be done to save humanity, And the only group of people you have at your disposal to accomplish this are the Taliban. Yes the Fremen are supposed to be admirable in their strength and ferocity, but they are supposed to be depicted as the ultimate example of honor culture and crazy dangerous, but DV is in a bind. If he depicts them as Caucasians, he will get yelled at for that So he hast to make them all varying shades of brown. But then, He can't depict them all as being dangerous fanatics or he'll get yelled at for being an Islamic and a bigot for perpetuating negative brown people stereotypes. And since, all the other female characters, although formidable, are morally questionable, he needed to do something to get female audiences to show up, he decided to make Chani this relatable 21st century character. It's pandering. It's annoying. But if you want a studio to give you a $190 million budget, there is probably no way to avoid diluting the story. Getting an adequate ROI means you need the female vote. And women these days, on average, are way more touchy than they used to be about stuff they see on the screen. But there were also some unnecessary changes that were just plain stupid. No Guild acquiescence to Paul's ascendency and so the heretofore non space-faring Fremen immediately commandeer all the Saudarkar ships to go fight a space battle. What the hell? Why?
Agreed...
Also another problem is the HARKONENS are completely dehumanised to the point they might as well be ORCS..
It's difficult to be invested in Paul's moral conflicts when his "enemies" are generic dehumanised BADDIES.
Yeah the part where all the Freeman who have never been into outer space we're gonna go and fight in outer space was just laughable. But the total removal of three guild navigators destroyed the story. Without the spacing guild you have no idea why the spice matters.
You talk about women being touchy about what they see on screen and you are ranting about Chani actually being a character and having conflict with Paul...
@@PeachesandCream225 I suppose you think I don't want there to be any strong and interesting female characters at all just because I disagree with DVs decision regarding one female character. Is that where we are going? That I must not like independent and dynamic women with strong personalities because it threatens me or something? I know you want to believe that. Whatever.
@@PeachesandCream225 there is no character...and no conflict
I understand cutting things for time. I just can't get why you would get a beloved book and then decide "oh, this is wrong, this is wrong, this character needs to change, this is not that relevant". The book was carefully written and edited and it was successful like that, so why start "fixing" things that are not broken? I find that this betrays such an arrogant attitude that I don't even care if overall the changes are "good" o "bad", I dislike it out of principle.
There were cinematic genius scenes throughout Dune 2. But, I had trouble with the minimal character development, which seemed relegated to Dune 1. In this way, it had the same failings as Rogue One.
A critical feature from the books was the importance of the baby sandworms (sandtrout) in walling off vast underground sea(s). You could drill for water all over Arrakis, water would well up, then almost immediately stop because the sandtrout sealed off the breach. With 90 or so nukes in Paul's control and seeing the potential of three of those against the shield wall, it seems absurd to think that these nukes could wipe out spice across the planet. In the books, the internal conversion of the "Water of Life" into its antidote created "Water of Death" to the baby sandworms, which would have ended spice creation. In the books, these baby sandworms were critical to creating the God Emperor. Maybe nukes were an easier explanation (deus ex machina), but it also constrained future plot twists.
And then there's the chamber where the nukes were secretly stored. After the Harkonnens departed, there didn't seem to be enough time to build a secret underground storage and launch platform, then move the nukes inside. As the Harkonnens moved off Arrakis, there seemed to be only a week or two before the surprise attack. Also, we know that the Harkonnens left spies around the city of Arrakeen. Any secret nuke facility so near Arrakeen would have been seen. After the Harkonnens took over, securing these nukes would have been a priority. In short, this secret nuke facility doesn't make sense the way it's told. An extended timeline would have been needed along with some way to automatically transport and secure the nukes.
Yeah, it was absurd
I assume that the films are supposed to take place over months or years
But yeah; they feel like the story develops in a matter of days or weeks
I think God I’m not the only one who feels this way. I literally walked out of the movie theater and I was not impressed.
i came out of the cinema yesterday after watching dune 2 and was like "wtf was that" everything was so rushed and tried to take after the anakin episode 3 star wars vibe when he turns dark and paul was just doing random stuff for no reason
Interesting review. As a book fan, I'm so split on this movie. It definitely does not emphasise the parts of Dune that make it unique as a sci fi universe. But it also has things which as a movie on its own terms I can see it being decent. I'm very schizophrenic on my opinion, from the perspective of comparing to the book, this review is spot on. From just taking it as the movie it is, well I enjoyed it, but it's hard to rate it.
So it's a good movie but not a good adaptation? Something I say about Chris Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy. They are great movies but bad Batman movies.
I have not read the books. I can only judge the movie as a movie. And I thought it was bad. I liked the first one. It gave me enough to go on despite not having read the books and was very entertaining. This second one just did not stand up. I felt lost without knowing the lore, the action scenes were confusing and lacked any tension, the dialogue was bad, and the character motivations were either trite (evil for the sake of being evil) or a mess (I have no idea what's going on with Paul nor his mum).
@@AshrafAnamI suppose it's hard to say. I'd say it's not an accurate adaptation, but it works as a good Dune blockbuster.
@@georgeskanoute3814part 2 was very bad in explaining the effects prescience and ancestral memory has in Paul. They made it so that once you drank the Water of Life you automatically turn into a religious psychopath
@@MamulengoBRabsolutely correct. It’s a big part of the book and is built up from the beginning.
Thank you for this. My theory goes like this:
1. Villeneuve didn't read the book or only read a summary one of his mid-20s lackies wrote
2. Villeneuve didn't UNDERSTAND the themes of the book like politics, religion, intrigue, ecology, history...
3. Villeneuve read and understood them, but decided to make a Star Wars film to make it appeal to a wider audience
Perhaps a bit of all 3?
i thought both part 1 and 2 was a pretentious pile of shit, take away the visuals and there is nothing much left ( I did enjoy the David Lynch version though, though it was a decent movie)
The movie sucked on its on merit but had the first and second movies plots been part of one long movie I feel it would've been slightly more enjoyable but then the movie would've been 5 hours long. Otherwise it's just boring and spends way too much time on shots of shaking sand and Zendaya doing her typical stern non emotive stare every 10 seconds
They ruined Chani's character, awful casting and writing all around.
Nah they made her better.
@@Astronautadelvoid smooth brain take doubt you’ve read the books