There were some bad edits that confused me. Stillgar sends Paul out into the desert for a solo camping trip. How did that solo trip end? Did Stillgar find out that Chani helped Paul? Nope. Suddenly the movie jumps to some fremen attacking a spice harvester. Is this attack happening while Paul is on his solo camping trip? Who are these masked fremen? Oh! It's a Paul and Chani! Whaaa? I guess the solo camping trip is done and everthing went great...?? No problems with spiders or centipedes, I guess. And Stillgar was OK with Chani going with Paul on his solo trip? Another bad edit is the scene where Paul drinks the blue gatorade. The build-up to that scene was way too short. Paul is suddenly at the temple where he goes straight for the beaker of juice. No hesitation. No fear. Just give me the juice so we can get to the next scene. No explanation. No big deal. How did Paul get to the temple ahead of his entourage? It felt like that scene was over edited, too much was cut out. I initially thought it might be a pre-cog dream where Paul dies...but Nope! He drank the juice and that scene is done. Wasn't that scene supposed to be the most important turning point of Paul's life?
THANK YOU SO MUCH! I haven’t heard a single other person call attention to this until now and it drove me NUTS. The waters of life scene is absolutely one of the biggest moments of either of the movies and it was botched hard. Everything you just said I was literally questioning in the theater while watching it. Ruined the rest of the movie for me once I noticed the poor editing.
Yeah wtf was the point of that solo trip like it was set up as if we were going to get a montage of him surviving several days in the desert trying to combat against desert stroms the freezing nights giant worms centipedes and scary ghost spirits haunting him but nah let's have him dancing in the desert with fucking zendaya wtf was that!?
@@Royal_FortuneI'm also ONE OFYOU GUYs.. I've been losin g my MIND with all the reviews and people A S S kissing this movie.. Also....GENERIC BAD GUYS....are generically BAD and evil..... Why are they "bad and evil"..?.. Cause... Just cause... Completely 1 dimensional
@@RammingSpeed-lk8kk I also have to mention how they hyped up the takeover of the planet the entire movie and it lasted maybe 5 minutes up to the point where he fought Feyd-Rautha. The galactic army was defeated anticlimactically, it was incredibly tiny for a force that dominates space. We didn’t even really get to see them fight. Paul literally walks in and seizes the throne with no ceremony in the very next scene following the worms. There was more action during the Harkonnen takeover in the first movie than there was in the takeover of the galactic army, Harkonnens, and planet combined in the second part by the end. Speaking of the feyd-rautha part, while the fight was visually great I couldn’t care less for feyd because they just turned him into a murderous psycho in the movie and left the extent of his depth as a character at that. They talk about the harkonnens being bloodthirsty killers in the movies but that’s not all they are. They’re are supposed to be cunning and crafty not JUST psychotically violent even though they are bad. So, I totally understand what you mean by the enemies falling flat.
"we have to convince these people because we're in danger. We'll start with the weakest". Next scene: All the Fremen follow the Reverend Mother wholeheartedly.
Possibly. The characters' development was so shallow that i couldn't believe how Villeneuve went from the masterpiece that was part 1 to this bad "Sauvage" spot. Zendayas "love" for Paul... Don't... Just... 😖. I'm pretty sure the studio demanded a lot to be cut. Look at "Kingdom of heaven". From one of the shallowest movies possible for Scott to make in - cinemas, to possibly the best historical movie of the last 50 years once they released the director's cut.
I just saw this in the movies, and the editing in the first hour and a half had me shaking my head at the abrupt unconnected scenes in the story. This movie was the perfect example of an old video of Trey Parker & Matt Stone giving a scriptwriting seminar where in writing the beats, avoid 'and then'. "This happens, and then this happens, and then this happens, this is not a movie, that's not a story" That is exactly what the first half of the movie was...maybe more, idk, I was pretty dialed out by then.
I just want to say thank you for affirming that I'm not completely insane by being completely dismayed by the critical reception of this film...or at the very least that I'm not alone in my insanity. Also, when you mentioned the power range scene...THANK YOU! I literally said the EXACT same thing to my brother when I watched the first movie! I burst out laughing all of the sudden and I had to explain to him afterward. Holy crap. I'm so unbelievably comforted right now.
Didnt read the books...but found Chani extremely annoying. She makes fun of the prophecy but sleeps with the chosen one (after he gets the biggest worm in town). She loves him in one scene, then accuses him of wanting to enslave them, then she wants to kill him in the temple, but then she gets jealous of him marrying the princess, so she leaves angry at him etc etc...at the final battle they are all over the place. They start planning the attack at the west side of the valley (from where the nukes are shot), then magically Chani is teletransported and appears under the sand with hundreds of wariors. Paul is in the west, then magically appears in the north with thousands of warriors. The nukes destroy a mountain creating a tsunami of massive boulders and dust that its about to destroy the "palace", but then nothing happens and only some soldiers are killed, but then Stilgar attacks from the opening and nothing is there from the nuke's rubble. The emperors army is supposed to be the best in the universe but they get killed so easily, even in one to one combat. In the first movie they were unbeatable. So many more plotholes and contradictions.
bahahaha it's funny that someone who hasn't read the book could even point the hypocrisy of her character. You nailed the discrepancy between her movie Chani and book Chani perfectly without even reading the book. She is not like some know-it-all, morally superior college student in the book at all. She absolutely knows what the fuck is up, and in actuality, the so called 'exploitation' is mutual. The Fremen are using Paul and Paul is using the Fremen. But Paul doesn't frickin want to, but it's the only way. Chani is literally there to support him as best as she can because it's her people's only chance to make their dreams of turning Arrakis into a paradise.. She literally kills his challengers right outside their tent while Paul is sleeping. They fall deeply deeply in love and it's so sad to see how much Villeneuve butchered this shit, all for the sake of morphing it to the current trends "Omg girl don't you dare bow to that awful man Paul! After he just married that woman gurrrrll cmon!". I actually question whether Villeneuve even read the book since he was 14 years old because it seems like what a 14 year old would only remember when reading the book.
Well to be fair he also literally saves her life, killed a man, and just other stuff that would have made her wet. And I don't think she's jealous at the end, she's mad that her people will now be doing jihad. But yeah the fight scene could have been done better. It's meant to be a "blink and it's over" "battle" scene. And yeah they do get rolled super easy. Happens in the book as well iirc. It's supposed to be a surprise attack right as they're getting there. Like, you get off the transport from the guild highliner and then you get rolled immediately in a surprise attack. The missing rubble was odd tho, I think it's supposed to be that the rubble is "in the storm" in the other shots. Because the worms are coming in during a super-storm with the storm "at their backs" as in the book. I will note that they were not unbeatable in the first movie, we only saw them fight soldiers one time (from behind with harks on the other side of them flanking them). And duncan takes out several and then takes out near a whole squad single handed. Not unbeatable at all. In the books of course it's supposed to be emps guys are better than the guys of the great houses, but the fremen are as good or better than emps men on dune itself.
@@grantwithers 😂 yep. Also true about the power of Fremen warriors vs the rest. I always saw the Fremen as like fatherless children of the universe, or a headless body in need of a head or a leader.
Oddly enough, I felt the movie was rushed. After reading the book the movie felt like the cliff notes (and not the good ones). If I didn’t read them, I would have been totally lost. And, they reinvented the story all the while getting it totally wrong. So they screwed it all up and it’s going to take 40 years on before anyone else will attempt to make a movie (or tv series) again.
@jroar123 I am 100% with you. I saw the first movie and that got me into the book. Wanted to finish it before I saw new movie. I finished the part of the book the movie is based on and was flabbergasted by how everything felt "we need to get through x so we can get to y" and would have been confused without reading it. Water of death becomes nukes, Stilgar is fanatical from the beginning, chani is a pseudo-antagonist when she was ride or die in the book, paul agrees to marry irulan so the landsraad will accept his rule yet go to war at the end because they don't (then why marry irulan? if you are doing a clean sweep of your society and ruling by the sword you make the rules). Visually great but storywise I think lynch's is better
@@nathanjames6454 not to mention the Great Houses come to Arrakis not with Emperor but because Baron sent a message to them that sardaukar are trying to wipe them (even tho they stated multiple times that there are no sattelites above Arrakis, and because of the Moons no signal comes through, which is exactly why Arteides weren't able to call for help, and why their destruction remained a mistery to the rest of the Known Universe), Emperor himself coming to Arrakis not because the Guild forced him to fix the spice production, but because Paul sent him and invitation, Paul being reduced from the most powerful player in the room to a bloodthirsty screaming maniac who Irulan barely saves her father from, bedouins who lived in the desert for their entire life suddenly know how to operate the space ships and go on the conquest, Paul deciding to dring water of life because he had a chat with Jamis Force Ghost. Oh, and Baron's grand plan to seize the throne for Feyd being boiled down to "Imma gonna tell everyone that Emperor helped to destroy Atreides, big bo-bo)))))". But sure, the masterpiece of a sci-fi.
They filled it up with wasted scenes IMO. Lotta scenes that didn't add much and I was just waiting for something interesting to happen. Could have lost 75% of Chani would have been a good start....
@@OverLorD768 This movie was total trash. The first one had unforgivable mistakes like making Chani’s father into a woman. I guess they thought if it was okay to make that big of a mistake that the fans wouldn’t notice. And, so they multiplied changes to the story so far to the left that it turned into a complete dumpster fire. All they had to do was stick to the book but no, they had to make it more inline with the Biden administration. The movie reeks of leftist Hollywood edits. Oddly enough, all Biden had to do was to continue on the path that Trump had us on and he (Biden) would have gone down as a good (perhaps not great) President. Instead the leftist agenda ruined our Afghanistan withdraw leaving billions of hard earned taxpayer dollars in the hands of our enemies in the form of weapons. The cost in lives from people we promised freedom was in the thousands. You are probably wondering why I mentioned the left and their ideology? It’s because it was injected into this movie and it shows exactly their failures.
@@jroar123I hated both parts, so understand this comes from the heart... All offense, no due respect, you sound like the silliest most obtuse and unhinged person possible. If you are resentful of that judgement my offer to you is... To live. Live another 30, 40, 50 years. Squeeze all the juice out of the lemon of life and on the day you are called home by God, surrounded by friends and family I hope you take your final dirt nap STILL being resentful.
My main issue with part two is that it cut out / retconned literally everything that made dune great and replaced it with weird alternate timeline non-sense. It was clear Villeneuve had no intentions of being faithful to the source material what so ever. To make it worse he's talking about doing Messiah next, like how is that gonna even work hes already trashed most of the plot that leads into it.
In the end, the Harkonens were reduced to a non threat. They all died quite easily and anti-climatically. Feyd Ruhta was presented as this super insane, super threatening challenge and after he arrives on the planet he's just another generic villain. The Baron was presented as such a threat and is simply stabbed as he lays on the ground saying nothing! After everything the Beast had done, Gurney kills him in a second. Their deaths were just so disappointing to me. For all the build up to Paul taking revenge on them for the destruction of his house, there was barely any emotion to their defeat. Also, the big reveal that Paul and Jessica were Harkonens by blood led to nothing! The ending also just felt really rushed and felt like a setup for a Part 3. By the time the final battle started I was expecting a HUGE epic battle but it felt like it was over as it was just getting started. I didn't hate the movie, but the last hour was super disappointing to me.
I felt the same way originally but think about it like this. The purpose of dragging sequences on is to create tension, and create parts where you think the fremen/Paul might lose but then they triumph. There’s no reason for that bc it’s well established how dominant the fremen fighters are, and in combination with Paul’s visions of the future the harkonnens/sardaukar are really no match. The tension in the movie instead comes from Paul trying to resist his destiny that’s been engineered for him and that he knows will cause destruction but is necessary. I certainly felt conflicted about his rise to power. I highly recommend watching it again now that you’re not holding it up to expectations set by other movies
I am so confused... how was this f'ed up so badly? I have to drop this here real quick(SPOILER): In the book, there's a 2 year time jump just like the 2 years between movie releases conveniently. End part 1 with paul taking the water of life and Alia being born aswell as Paul's son leto. Then, after the real life 2 years between the movies part 2 opens after the time jump. Alia, fully grown after 2 years played by Anya taylor joy. Don't even need a real explanation. Then proceed the story just like the book. And Chani... so much time wasted on her unnecessarily changed character..
So much missing... No spacing guild, the importance of spice is undermined, The Emperor looks like he ran away from an old folks home, what is even a Mentat, what is the Kwitatz Haderach, Harkonen cruelty is minimized into random and senseless murder of their own, why is Shai Hulud so important to these people??? Paul now owns the galaxy because nukes??? Chani hates Paul or what??? Theres just so much NOT going on that I left the theater disappointed. Spectacle over substance is a perfect way to put it. I think people are just desperate for movies that arent just a vehicle for "representation and inclusion". Which, I get it, but this isn't it. 5 out of 10. I said what I said.
Kwitatz Haderach is basically what the Bene Gesserit have tested guys like Paul and Feyd for. Which would you have preferred? A sex scene between Vladimir and the young boys he has like in the book? The Shai Hulud are important because it’s like a right of passage for a Fremen to learn how to ride them, No Paul is now emperor because he has the power to destroy spice production on Arrakis which y’know this world needs to run on?, Chani is angry because she watched someone she loves slip away from their humanity and become the prophet. Someone who in the books will cause the deaths of billions. Denis basically gave most of Paul’s inner monologue about his doubts of being the messiah to Chani. Which fair I don’t want any of that clunky exposition like in the Lynch film. There’s a hell of a lot of substance here like about the dangers of hero worship and a character who slowly loses their humanity to become a religious messiah at the cost of lives and becomes a dangerous warlord.
What? The Baron died like the animal he was. Alia does it. Or Paul. Same result. Different is different. But let's not be so dramatic. The same purpose was served.
@@donny1960 because there is a bloody reason Herbert wrote it that way, and because Villeneuve just flushed Alia's entire storyline from "Messiah" and "Children of Dune" down the drain for the sATisFyInG moment.
@@OverLorD768 You are delusional. Alia is intact. Her role in Messiah can be exactly as written. She will be born. And then ..take it from there. I have no idea what you are talking about. Do you?
@@donny1960 I do, actually. I also love the rage of DV fanboys. It's... invigorating. Her role in Messiah cannot be "exactly as written", since Villeneuve already gutted the original Dune ending so badly that I have no idea how they are going to bring the story back. No, I do actually, Villeneuve would simply go full fanfiction mode, and write his own version of "Dune Messiah", just as D&D did with Seasons 7 and 8 of Game of Thrones. Also while turning Alia into the saviour, I imagine. There was a reason why it was Alia who killed the Baron. There was a reason why Reverened saw her and was terrified by her. The whole journey of Alia to become the "Abomination" and being posessed by her victim, the Baron, started in the ending of the original Dune. Herbert wrote it that way. Lynch got it. John Harrison in his miniseries got it. Only Villeneuve thought that he is smarter than Frank Herbert (which is kinda weird for a person who claim that he dreamed about making a Dune movie since he was 12, if you ask me), and got it wrong. But then again, his adaptation of Dune is perfect for an audience like you. All spectacle, no substance.
You do remember in the movie that Alia is in Jessica's body right? This is ridiculous. Just because something doesn't match the book or the movie from the 80s doesn't mean it was somehow cheapened. The way this film enacts the Baron's death was so much more appropriate for the villian that he was. Paul just walked right up to him and stabbed him in the neck.....HELL YEAH! I always thought the portrayal in the old movie was weird and I just never understood it.
Pros: * Cinematography * Costumes * Sets/Locations * Some Strong supporting roles * Sandworm Riding Sequence * Giedi Prime Sequence * Fight Choreography Cons: * Surface level story snd themes compared to the novel and previous Sci-Fi Mini Series (despite having a longer run time than the entire miniseries) * Poor characterisation of many characters * Chani's radical character changes * Zendaya's performance is lackluster * The Emperor's changes and Chris Walken's performance * Pacing issues in the last 3rd of the film * Some shots are gratuitous and take more runtime than they deserve to * Lackluster finale
If u made a piechart and weigh these pros and cons in them, you'd probably end up with Pros filling 95% of the chart. maybe u ll get away with 85, but nothing less just by how much the pros encompase.
@MsDsfreak Perhaps, though it largely depends on the viewer and what they value. My film-making critic side of my brain weighs things different than my Dune novel fan side, so it's ultimately mixed. I'd re-watch for a great cinematic experience, but for a story and something to think about in any depth afterwards I'll pass as it wasn't very deep at all compared to other comparable films and especially the book it is based loosely on. Glad others enjoy it fully though!
@@JCDenton3 I do think that story can be told by cinematography and it does hell fo a good job to give you the feeling of something mystical, as well as the fundamental themes of time and how these will affect Paul in part 2. But I guess it will come down to a purist hard fanbase discussion, as it was with Lord of the rings. Where one side will point out any deviations from canon and not regard that devisations are necessary in other medias (especially that film can never encompase all messages, if you dont want to produe a 17h movie or a series, and directors will have to decide on what to focus on), while the other will disregard the canon for the experience.
@@JCDenton3 You say "many characters" were poorly characterized but your only examples were Chani and Shaddam. Chani was changed a bit, fair enough, but so long as she ends up with Paul, that's what matters. As for Shaddam, the Emperor barely appears in the book, so Walken had little to work with. He only appears on the last two or three chapters (out of 48 total), plus a handful of chapter opening quotes. And he fit the role exactly as in the books. The role of a frail, extremely old man, who's desperately clinging to his power and authority. The finale, apart from the shot of Chani leaving (which ties into the previous complaint), was pretty accurate to the book. Paul defeats Feyd-Rautha in a duel, he threatens the Guild, and gets the Emperor to agree for Irulan to marry Paul. In other words, exactly like in the book. Pacing issues and gratuitous shots seem like subjective complaints, so too bad for you, but I never felt any pacing issues, and appreciated every "gratuitous" shot. This (Dune, parts 1&2) is the best and most faithful movie adaptation of DUNE we've ever had, and both me and my two pals I saw it with would give it a 8/10 minimum. Part 2 had a lot less to work with (Part 1 adapted 33 out of 48 chapters, leaving only 15 for Part 2), so Denis added a few scenes. At first I was gonna use this as a complaint, but they still make sense within the overall story so it's all good.
Turning Jessica, Stilgar and Chani into vehicles for the film's message cheapened their characters and a whole host of stuff just gets mentioned without much of any explanation. If it was its own generic scifi movie it'd be decent, bit a whole fuck load gets lost in adaptation from the books.
Dune is complex, dumbing it down for the lowest common denominator is why these movies suck so badly for me. Monopoly is absolutely key to the entire plot. The spacing guild, The emperor, the Great Houses and CHOAM control spice production. That control represents that monopoly in the Dune Universe, which is the primary plot of the book. Everything else that happens in the progression towards the God Emperor does so because of totalitarian control and monopoly over space travel and spice. To leave it out is an outrage actually. Dv has given us a formless unintelligent cadaver of a movie. The major themes of which have been completely lanced from the story like a boil from an unwashed arse. Imagine the lord of the rings without the 20 minute prologue. It would drop the audience into one of the most complex stories ever attempted in cinematic history, and they wouldn’t have a clue what was going on. It would ruin the movies. More than that, the prologues of LOTR are epic in their own right. From a practical movie making perspective, taking 20mins at the start of the first movie to explain the world you are about to drop the viewer into, means that you dont have to explain it all later in the story when the weight of it would seriously impact the narrative flow. Both the lynch Movie and the mini series had prologues because dune NEEDS that for world building. I have more than a few issues with DVs “dune”. (purposefully lower case). The complete lack of world building is a major factor. He should never have been allowed to make these movies if his intent was to strip the intelligence out so that a dumbed down zombie public can understand it.
The books are quite clear that the force driving the Jihad is biology - that mankind is becoming genetically isolated on each planet and that there is an inescapable biological drive to have an event that mixes up humans across the occupied planets. This is the source of Paul's bitterness - that even though the spice gives him the power to trace forward different futures, even though he can do this, there is never a way to avoid the Jihad and the death of Chani. So yes religious manipulation, monopoly control are all themes, but the engine driving the plot is biological necessity.
Well, that is your problem. Your focus is off. All you mentioned. The Houses. The emperor. The Guild. They are all bit players. Even Spice is just "fuel". The real story of Dune is what the Bene Gesserit were up to. Creating the "Ultimate Control" device in "The One"...... is the story of Dune. And the lesson. Taking chance and change out of the equation, leads to a dead end for the Human Race. The "Golden Path" had nothing to do with Spice.
You do understand that you have to dumb it down somewhat for the audience So many people are on this very comment section complaining how boring it was because they didn’t understand what all the pieces were all about and why Imagine if they included all the stuff about the CHOAM and how the emperor wanted to control everything and that meant getting rid of House Atreides That being said- I thought DV did bring all of that into these films It was all right there- from the Bene Gesserit wanting political power to the emperor using his Sardaukar army to maintain control- even teaming up with the Harkonnens to maintain control of his monopoly I mean what were you watching?!
@@DoremiFasolatido1979 Your description goes against 60 years of intelligent analysis of the novel. Thanks for pointing out your inefficiencies and inability to comprehend. Somewhat brave of you. But more likely you are one of "those" that think being a contrarian is somewhat "Cool". But you have failed to come close to pulling that one off.
This is a comment I wrote on Penguinz0s moist meter glowing review of dune part 2 as I could not believe why this film was recieving so much praise. I did really enjoy part one however, differing from your perspective in that way. :I am incapable of understanding how anyone can think of part two as anything other than an absolute mess, the tropes, the underdevelopment of the love story, the unexplained plot point of the family atomics, the sillyness of the raids on the spice harvesters and feyd rautha's brief appearance. The extent of the love story in the film was basically Paul and Chani fighting mini bosses and chani goin "great job for an idiot foreigner" Paul pretty much just looks at her and they are 'in love'. On the topic of the spice harvesting machine mini bosses, these fight scenes are absurd, the fedeyken being in the exact place the ships will land seeming entirely coincidental or not explained. Then, they effortlessly dispatch the Harkonen soldiers and gunships. However this seems entirely pointless when, after all of that effort, they just annihilate them with an all powerful laser gun. Paul's scenes of becoming fedeyken were also lacklustre, with him basically speedrunning improving his sand walk, and then immediately transitioning to riding the biggest wurm ever seen. (Also, the ease with which the fremen harness and ride the sandworms really detracts from their position as the apex predators of the desert which was disappointing.) Feyd rautha also seemed to me like a poorly developed character, he just pops up all psychopathic and then utilises the gunships to destroy the seeches. (which I guess had just been floating around doing fuck all previously?) Also in the final fight between Paul and Feyd, we see the old trope of taking a serious wound to land the final blow on an enemy (pretty much Thorin vs Azog.) I would also have preferred to see the characters depravity and cruelty rather than him simply beating up on some dudes in an arena, similar to Ramsay Snow/Bolton from GoT. I think the plot was simply too boring and predictable even as someone who has not read the original novel, everything being explained in a way that was painfully patronising and ultimately boring. The characters seemed to face really very little adversity and development with every scene just revealing new information or seeing the characters develop new skills at an extremely surface level and at face value. For example, the 'water of life' pretty much just turning Paul into an omniscient super being and entirely changing his character. I simply think there was not enough mystery and organic character development through dialogue and interactions to create compelling, endearing characters. I would compare many of the scenes to pantomimes with Stilgar, Paul and Chani taking turns to pronounce their opinions at each other with the rest of the fedeyken cheering like canned applause when one of the main characters said something important. The visuals and music were great granted, but they entirely dismantled the emerging ambiance and mystery of arrakis in exchange for repetitive action scenes and clunky dialogue and character development. I was either bored or cringing for almost the entire film and was massively disappointed in what could have been a tense, thrilling culmination of the political, religious and romantic storylines at play yet the film fell apart on everything besides the visuals.
"Paul pretty much just looks at her and they are 'in love'." nah they're not in lurg, they're just two soldiers banging after he saved her life and she took a shine to him a bit. Tho paul lurgs her. She obviously does not lurg him. Would bang tho, as she ends up doing.
I think it's fair to say that anyone that have a rational mind wouldn't like this movie, like there's literally no attraction, nothing feels good or move you
What I disliked most about this movie is that it tries very hard to depict the most nuanced parts of Herbert's books by simply having the characters repeat words. It was actually annoying to hear Lisan Al gaib repeated to the point it's become a meme. The same could be said about the character constantly muttering Muad dib and kwizats haderach and mahdi. All those ideas had substance in the books but were reduced to buzzwords in the film. I think FH would detest the thought of trying to turn his magnum opus into Hollywood intellectual property to be exploited through a trilogy.
Agree. All crowds felt very stupid. Raising arms, one or two things are being said, and then they all shout Lisan Al Gaib, this sequence repeated like 3 times in the movie. Really sad.
Are the Harkonnens also comically stupid in the books? Cause in this movie they were fucking pathetic. All the fights were so one sided it felt like there was no conflict at all.
I also didn't like how they were all just randomly killing each other. It was a very lazy way to emphasize how cruel and psychotic they were. It was so predictable and weak.
Right?! The "good guys" just seem to have infinite resources and are just better at everything. There's the one scene where the Harkonnen destroy the Freman city by just bombing it... as if that had never occurred to anyone before? And after that they just go back to being really bad at war.
The fight is one-sided because Paul is basically Space Jesus/Genghis Khan... Its not about whether he wins a fight but whether he should be fighting. If that's boring then you can always watch the generic action flicks that come out every few months
@@archmaester6594 This was supposed to be the Emperors army the most powerful army in the universe and this ragtag band of sand insurgents crushed them in like 5 mins. Such a stupid movie..
2 movies and 5 hours later, and we’re still waiting for the story to start 😀 These films are beautiful, but hollow. I was impressed and bored at the same time.
Yes. All 6 Frank Herbert books. Admittedly that’s likely why I found the films lacking, because I thought they glossed over or left out so much important stuff.
@@elenaphisher244 But you do understand that it's impossible to fully and faithfully adapt Dune to the silver screen, right? A book is capable of telling a story in a way a film will never. You'd need to have a 10 hour + movie in order to include everything from the books. Hell, maybe even more time. Therefore, considering the time constraints of cinema, don't you think they did a decent job?
@@joaosantos5503it's not at all impossible. The miniseries had ONE HOUR LESS to work with than both movies, and they managed to nail 90% of the book. It didn't have an overly quick pace, either, so you can't claim it all happened too fast. It IS possible. It's just not possible by half your runtime covering overly long self indulgent shots of spaceships landing, people walking through hallways and staring at each other intensely. You gotta pick up the pace!
@@humbleopulence So you recommend it, then? And this would be the early 2000s mini series? I'd like to watch it. Would you say it adapts the books the best.
Not a book reader nor have I seen the Lynch version but I actually loved Part One. However I was super disappoInted with Part Two. The Harkonens seemed lame and weak in this one. The Fade and Rabban duels were anticlImactic AF. I still don't really understand the value and power of Spice. I don't connect with or like any of the characters, especially Chani. Also is the Emperor supposed to seem like the weakest man in the Universe?
I'm confused about why in some scenes they have machine guns and attack helicopters and rpg like laser beams but then in the final battle scene or even in the first movie they're all fighting hand to hand with sword's?? Like what???😂😂
99% of the movie is just actor mewing like wtf is that especially when the director keeps zooming on the face for several minutes like it's significant at any level
There are several points which massively could improve this waste-of-a-time-movie: Take the last 20 minutes of the last movie and take that as a setup for the beginning of part 2. The Harkonnens are almost non-existant and that means a lot when they are the antagonists in a 167 min movie. In the book the Baron is one of the main characters and also VERY verbal, explaining a lot about the world of Dune. Without reading the books first, a viewer is completely lost during some scenes. The Emperor looked like a guy ready to die. Sure he was 79 in the books, but he was said to look like 40. Christopher Walken was severely miscast. He sticks out as a sore thumb. Irulan was a wasted character as well- going from a key political figure to a mere bystander, who has a plot going with the Bene-Gesserit until she suddenly stops to be relevant. Paul and his messiah-like position was played for laughs, especially the scene that was basically a copy from "Life of Brian". His problem of not-wanting to become a prophet due to the resulting millions of lives lost is simply gone after mentioning it once. Channi was again a non-character except for antagonizing Paul for most of the time. The movie basically skips 2 years and we should just imagine why Paul fell in love with her. This never works in a movie. Just because characters are male and female and close in proximity doesnt explain a relationship. The biggest joke to me however was when the Emperor came to Arrakis and "he brought all his ships and entire military power", just so they could defeat him in like 5 minutes. I basically thought the nukes missed the Emperor's ship, but the movie treated it as if the idea of nuking the mountains and then riding the worms through the resulting opening to fight the Emperors army was better than simply nuking his army directly.... like what? For being more than 2 and a half hours long this movie wastes so much time on nothing.
@@danculbert6349If reading my comment takes longer for you than watching a two and a half hour movie then your education system clearly has failed you. Sorry to hear that.
@@wookianer what would stop Paul from marrying the emperor's daughter even if the emperor would die? 🤔 Plus, I never said the emperor should die, so I dont know who you are answering to...
@@teko363 ugh. I really love the concept of her character, but the way chani’s relationship w Paul evolved was so sudden, and seemingly hollow, unearned, so unfortunate, most overrated movies ever
@@brycebrown6596 i fully agree. Maybe shes a great actress in other projects, but in this movie she and her character were incredibly bad. Could be that it was the fault of the director or the screenwriters or who knows. But yeah, fully agree, and thanks for sharing
@@gabrielrodriguez463Her only reaction was FROWNY FACE. I think twice she laughed or smiled. I didn't understand how she loved Paul when Chani just glared at him. Hopefully the wrinkled forehead and down turned mouth is not result of acting coach?
Dune part 2 felt rushed, neglected. And all we got in return is an infantalized Chani who throws tantrums whenever people do the things she suggests they should do. What a shame, as part 1 was quite alright.
Or... Paul has to do this. Okay, now it's 3 months later, but also only 3 days later. Paul did the thing or something. Who cares this is happening right now. You love this. Next on the checklist...
Chani and Paul's relationship development felt rushed and at times very jarring. one scene she's laughing at Paul, next scene she's helping him cheat his survival challenge. One scene she's angry at the prophecy, next scene they're kissing in the tent. Like wtf is going on? And y'all thought Anakin and Padme's love story was weird haha.
Ppl much more prefer absurd and sporadic love stories lol 95% of ppl seem to LOVE Chani and Zendaya’s acting I don’t get it AT ALL, but it is what it is
Well, you see, couples are made of two people. Over the course of multiple months, they may agree or disagree on things. So when the film covers that vast amount of time, it also covers the start, ups, downs, and end of their relationship.
Thank you, I get it! And I feel the same. Then she slaps him in the face when he does the most amazing thing and wakes up from drinking the water of life. This was so jarring at such a perfect moment in the film.
As a book reader myself, this felt very nitpicky and ignorant to the language of cinema. As much as I love all the in depth lore dumps of Dune and do totally get being upset at not getting a ton of that, I also think Denis is able to visuallly communicate the small things really well. Unfortunately, you can't just have characters explain the world and lore all the time without it feeling completely contrived, that's why I think a lot of Denis' changes make perfect sense for a film. Some stuff I agree on, removing some of the Chani backstory is a weird choice, but I get it and the further changes to her character to give the story a little more drama and to give a pretty big change for book readers at the end, not sure how Messiah will look with Chani potentially not being around. The Alia change is unfortunate but again, I get it, it's either have a super smart two year old, go forward further than the books but risk mucking up the whole timeline more than need be, or do the visually interesting unborn thing. Sad about the implications for a potentially CoD film however, Denis has stated he only intends to do up to Messiah and honestly, as much as I love all the Dune books by Frank Herbert, they do get into unfilmable territory at Children of Dune anyways.
Children of Dune is my favourite and as much as I would love to see it filmed, it's deffo near impossible. Dune part one got me into the books, I wasn't a huge fan of part two but I hope it gets people into the books like part one did for me :)
Whatever DV accomplished through his visual representation was torn down for his complete lack of adhering to the narrative of the story. Few of the characters were true to their book counterparts to the point that key events are now completely different, as well as pacing of the overall story. Nothing is the same by the end of Dune part 2. 70% of the events in the movie just don't take place, and the events that do are not true to the book.
Yeah, like... for at least the part I could be arsed to sit through, all I really was thinking was "it's okay guys, you're allowed to just say you don't like movies." But then they wouldn't have anything to ragebait about.
So many important parts of the story left out. If you haven't read the books, half the crap in the movie make little sense as to why anything is happening.
I'm in a rare camp in that I loved the first Dune movie. I'll preface that I had very little knowledge of Dune other than growing up in 80s. It made me want to dive into this world. Dune Part 2, I walked out of there empty. All the visual and sound praise it's gotten....sure. But story wise, character wise, and world building, completely empty.
Yup, I took my gummies... sat in the imax... cried... felt everything... and then the last act started seriously changing the story up... I felt my core twisting, and instead of enjoying the changes, my mind started comparing P1 w/ P2... I left the theater cold and disgusted.
6 hours if Villeneuve has nothing on 2.5 hours of Lynch. I also watched Lynch first and then wanted to read the books. The performances and story-telling are so much more convincing. Lynch’s actors are all warm and vibrant, even the villains. Villeneuve is all visual aesthetic and very little real human connection.
You guys are spot on. Walked away from the film bored and disappointed. Dudes comments about Chaney turning into a girl boss is so true. Basically ruined the story in the movie. Glad I found your review, helped validate what I was thinking.
I'd rather see a "girl boss" character as you put it, that actually is conflicted and more accurately portrays how almost anyone would react to the situation before them, than a subservient fangirl.
@@kennykenevil57strife changes a person. It's a reality that many do not understand these days. Terrible demonstration of who Cheney was as a character in the world that she was in. Fine yoo-hoo goes to Starbucks on the weekends. Would probably react like she did in the movie but that's not how you would act if you grew up in Cheney's shoes.
@@techterror1282 How about you learn to articulate your points better before saying anything, I don't even know what you're trying to say. And her name is Chani not Cheney.
After finally watching it (part 1 and 2) I must say that the main personage is a Mary Sue on steroids, the entire concept is too boring when the protagonist can't be hurt and I never felt really worried for him. His love interest is unlikable, the personage I was interested in was the daughter of the emperor but she has like 5 minutes of screentime.
There were a couple more issues for me: 1) The role of the spice in the universe of Dune is not remarked enough...people are fighting over it but, since they forgot to mention the Spacing Guild, its importance is never brought to centre stage 2) I hated that they used the word "fundamentalist" to describe the Fremen that lived South...it's a term that is used too often inappropriately in the current political discourse and in a discriminatory manner...what do they mean exactly? That they are believers? That they live their life differently? Never clarified, but there is a dangerous overlap between being religious and a "fundamentalist" I disliked 3) The Harkonnen planet was artsy but hollow...didn't communicate anything. It was obviously not a place fit for human life, even human life of psychos...the throat slashing was excessive and lost its punch after a while (yes they are all psychos, we get it). The cultist vibe I've got from the Harkonnen wasn't imho in the spirit of the books 4) Not even a little was explained of the mysteries of Arrakis, the nature of worms, the sand trout et. 5) The transformation of Paul was too rapid...they spent a lot of time repeating actions scenes of raids vs harvesters and then, all of a sudden, Paul drinks the Slush Puppie and becomes a badass.... 6) Stilgar, poor Stilgar...
I'm sure that given a billion dollars and 20 hours of run time, Villeneuve would have done better. Just saying. The biggest problem is that kids just dont read anymore. I'm sure he had to contend with that thought. I read it first at 15, then again and Messiah at 22. But that was almost 40 years ago before social media became the Monster it is. Personally waiting for that Butlerian Jihad, lol.
@@charlessomerset9754 The biggest problem with fans nowadays is that they expect everyone to know everything before they go to enjoy a movie. The purpose of a motion picture is to let the people know what the thing it's made on or the source material really is through its writing, directing, editing and photography. If Dune has to depend on the reading of the source material beforehand to communicate, it fails miserably as a film. Compare this with The Lord of the Rings trilogy of films. They set up the premise and engross and captivate the audience through both storytelling and cinematography. I and a lot of people have never read the books but we absolute are LotR fans.
@@charlessomerset9754money rules all. This had to sell to pg13s and the entire international community. We will never get quotes like "Try looking into that place where you dare not look! You'll find me there, staring out at you!" on screen again.
@@AshrafAnam This trash bag of a movie "Dune" doesn't even come close to being as great as LotR. With ya on that. 👍🏻.. Hell , I liked David Lynch's movie better. At least it was interesting, weird and memorable. Dune is just a completely dead watch.
I am not an hardcore fan of the books though. And still I think that part 2 is an empty shell, more than 1. Little effort in world building which is why comparing this to LotR is madness.
I never read the books but even I think its not a good movie. At least not as good as the hype make it seem.. It just never felt like the fremen were fighting a superior force. They were never in any danger. The villains were built up to die patheticly. The romance gave me a headache. There is no chemistry. The villains keep randomly killing their own goons to show how crazy bad they are which really amounted to nothing, felt cheap.
@@77Avadon77Lol what?! They meet. Instant time jump. Boom, passionately in love with clunky ass hell exposition telling the audience they fell in love apparently. So so bad.
@@travisspazz1624 It's so rushed in the Lynch version for sure, but I think the chemistry was so much stronger with the way Paul gazes longingly at Chani and realizes she's so beautiful while she smiles at him and fondly says, "Tell me of your homeworld, Usul," ending the scene with Paul reaching out his hand towards her. It's very subtle and quick but seems to hit all the right emotional notes combined with the music which does a lot of work. I think the more surreal quality of the Lynch film also helps with that blazing-fast pace in the latter half, like the shot of the water fading into Paul and Chani kissing passionately which seems almost dream-like. Lynch also visually ties their love to water symbolically, as the first scene of Paul and Chanti falling for each other is after seeing one of the Fremen's water caches, and their love-making scene is then followed by almost the same shot of the water cache. It's very poetic and efficient with the way it all comes together. Even with the rush and fast-forwarding through so many events, there was enough set up there for me to easily imagine how and why they could have fallen so deeply for each other soon after their first encounter. Also because Paul and Chani almost immediately show signs of attraction to each other on first meeting in the Lynch version (love at first sight), I think it adds more weight to all of Paul's visions of her earlier in the same film. It's like he was already falling for Chani before he even met her through his visions. So those visions themselves function more like a build up for the developing romance in Lynch's version; Chani becomes the woman of Paul's dreams in the romantic sense and not just the literal one. With this version, we get much more time spent between Paul and Chani including them fighting together in a dire circumstance, and they ultimately fall for each other over the sunset scene where they exchange a bit about their backgrounds. Paul: "Well, I'd very much like to be equal to you." Chani: "[...] maybe you could be Fremen." [They kiss each other, fade out]. Yet it doesn't really seem to have that same chemistry to me. I'm not perfectly sure why. I think it's more in the body language and acting, since if I read the screenplay, I would have thought everything was there to build up a very interesting and compelling romance. Yet it fell even flatter than Lynch's version (for me at least) despite devoting much more screen time to the interaction of these two characters.
Well, to be frank I have trouble concentrating on any Villeneuve movie because, whatever the story, the visual semantics always belong more to a luxury lifestyle magazine than to the story itself. It creates interferences. So in this case the story was epic/mystical/political, but the images said "go spend your holidays in that luxury resort in Morocco where you will meet beautiful people".
Whoa! You are absolutely correct, sir! I just call his Dune films "Vignettes of Dune" cause they're not actual movies, but I gotta say, you make a good case for "Denis Villeneuve - Travel Agency Photographer"
Arrival was his best film, not only because it had a clever twist in the 3rd act, but because the conversations between the characters felt like actual plot progression taking place; intelligent professionals in consistent character discussing ideas in conversations that flowed naturally. Scenes actually felt like scenes and not as you put it, vignettes.
In his rush to Paul into a cult leader, Denis ended up turning him into a Mary Sue girl boss. Which ironically had the opposite effect on young men who added him to the "literally me" character pantheon.
...That's how it happened in the book though. They caught them off guard with their pants down for a quick and brutal victory. The entire battle of Arrakeen was a single chapter that my have also included the Feyd dual and ending.
I just finished watching it and I literally cannot remember if there was any type of conflict in this movie. Like... Genuinely. Maybe if anything there was manufactured tension between zendaya and timothee's characters toward the end? But they didn't really have a relationship established anyway
@@Coolsville77 it’s not her fault man, there’s only so much an actor can do when the director is a self indulgent prick with bad taste. poor woman had to mysteriously slow-mo walk around a desert, saying nothing, doing nothing, yet somehow keeping it entertaining for hours, idk how she did it. i would have bursted out laughing by the 5th dramatic seductive head turn into the camera
I saw the movie last night while I was very tired. I should've stayed home and slept, as that would've been a better use of my time. It was painfully slow, lacked meaningful character development, felt very repetitive, had annoying characters, and very little actually happened. Some cool action and fights here and there, but otherwise I was massively underwhelmed. Very poor follow-up to the first part, which was setting up some cool stuff. I didn't love the first part as it was mostly set up for future movies, but I still wanted to see where it would go. And well, here we are. At least the popcorn was good. That was my favorite part, actually.
What I find disappointing is how the Scifi Miniseries (Director's Cut) managed to cover more of the plot with a better & more consistent sense of progression than these 2 movies did and in less time too. That miniseries & it's sequel (Children of Dune) had it's drawbacks, especially in budget fx but I think it did the best job of telling the story so far despite a few changes & condensing of plot & characters. As for Lynch's Dune, that will always be the one visually etched into my brain, especially as the cinematics in the Dune games followed it.... That leaves nothing really that I found the new films did better than the old material.
What? You didn't like the single bagpipe guy leading the coronation in D1? I think his name was Ned. I think Lynch's Dune carried more weight, and did the heavy lifting this version lacked.
100%. Also difficult to be invested in the idea Paul is CONFLICTED about his conquest when all the "enemies" are generic bad guys(who have been dehumanised).
I wanted to like it everybody says it’s great, I thought the dialogue kinda sucked, the love story was cringy asl, there was super cool themes and lil nuggets of the dopest most creative shit but the battles except for the beginning, was pretty cool but the visuals were sick I didn’t like Paul I thought the harkenens were done rlly well but everything felt kinda flat, I don’t understand why stuff happens it likes glosses over stuff. Idk it was just underwhelming.
I had massive issues with the factionalization of the Fremen/Chani. Theoretically I like the idea of adding complexity to Fremen belief/culture, I just don't think this was done well, and DV might have made it worse. Herbert's inspiration for the Fremen came from Ibn Khaldun - his idea of 'Asabiyyah (group feeling/solidarity) is key here - but DV's (shallow) factionalization cuts against the themes/inspiration of the Fremen's longer arc: 'asabiyyah/unity being forged in a harsh environment, which allows them to usurp, but which is then lost as they achieve power/cosmopolitanism. The very simplistic/binary split of North vs. South = Enlightened Skeptics vs 'Fundamentalists' felt extremely shallow and surface level of how splits in belief and culture actually manifest in such a tightly-knit community/culture, and totally misses what's interesting in the middle/margins. The split's artificiality also divorces the Fremen culture from FH's themes of how ideology/'assabiyah is rooted in ecological-sociological reality. I also just didn't like the use of the term ‘fundamentalist’. Using/applying it to label all southerners just seems out of place in Fremen culture, and making out Stilgar/Southern ‘fundamentalists’ to be these gullible irrational fools completely negates the complexity of how deep culture/belief shapes your faculties and actions, influences eventualities, and misses the ways it can be wrestled with within the cultural context. It also trivializes the ecological/survival impetus of Fremen belief collapsing it into something purely ideological. In a way DV's approach is worse than just leaving all the Fremen as 'believers'. I see what DV was trying to do, but adding the skeptic Northerners (an obvious modern/American insert) v Southerners ends up reinforcing/flattening the stereotype of the gullible native religious fool rather than nuancing it. DV seems to have brought a very modern/christian sensibility to belief, as opposed to what I imagine the Fremen (muslim/bedouin/Ibn Khaldun-inspired) belief/culture to be like and how FH understood it. Making Chani a perfectly enlightened skeptic, without seeing how that would impact her perception by/of the Fremen society and relationship to Paul, didn't seem to be thought through properly and misses what makes her interesting as a character and her senses of duty (to the planet, culture, people, paul etc.). Chani storming off at the end also seemed to gloss over this, and Chani/a whole faction knowing about the Bene Gesserit plan of religious manipulation seems like a massive change with unexplored implications. Regarding the film as a whole, while very beautiful/successful most of the time, there were also a lot of times where the movie began to feel a bit hollow/stifled by DV's style/editing and his stated aversion to dialogue. I also felt the architecture could have been a lot more ornate in Kaitan/the throne, and scenes like the armies outside with the flags seemed overly minimalistic/stylized to me, and despite the length a lot of the bigger moments felt very rushed. I also wish there was more of Irulan/Shaddam/Kaitan/Guild/CHOAM. Overall though I enjoyed it for what it was and I'm glad it exists, but the changes to the religious/political themes and simplifications of the political machinations (and lack of Guild/CHOAM) were disappointing. I understand the need for the adaptation to streamline, but I'm worried that DV is missing some of the ways in which the themes/arcs are changed, and if he has the ability/had the foresight to account for this to redo Messiah. But I'll suspend my final judgment for when Part 3 comes out The crazily overhyped response to this is also totally wild. It feels like internet culture knows/is told that Dune is considered to be very influential/smart/deep (which it is), and DV is hypercool, so people are tripping over themselves to explain why it's the best movie ever without actually engaging with it.
I tought exactally like that about the treatment of Freemens religious belifes. In Children of Dune as an contrast, the freemens Who rejects Paul were the MOST religious radicals of the interior desert, from Jakurutu's Sietch. "Enlighted secular freemen" just sound lame and cringe to me. Chani Zendaya was MCU MJ teleported to Dune...
The movie is boring and slow, with poor storytelling. Part 1 and Part 2 could easily be combined into one movie. Zendaya is miscast; it's funny when she tries to act like a bad-ass and makes that stupid mean face.
@@kennykenevil57yeah My opinion is it should have been three movies as that would have allowed for them to fit the things in that would have made the pacing right
I mean just look at lineup of movies since the year started. Weak af. This year we are getting blockbusters like a quiet place 2...Road House remake... Nosferatu... like the year could not look more boring
They are calling it a masterpiece because that's what they believe, and I believe it too. It seems this is the den of Dune haters lol. I don't get why many here hate it but that's fine, to each their own.
"Starving for good movies again" Dune 2 was originally scheduled to be released fall of 2023 and 2023 had good share of excellent movies: Oppenheimer, Killers of the Flower Moon, The Zone of Interest, Anatomy of a Fall, The Boy and the Heron. Are you not aware of these movies?
This. I love the book but I knew they weren’t going to be able to capture all the story and lore. I went for the sound and visuals and was very pleased
Well, they turned Chani and Jessica into entirely different people, as they did Stilgar actually. Timothee Chalamet is a terrible actor and had a vacant expression the entire time. Zendaya was just scowling or looking slightly puzzled. The chemistry between her and Paul doesn't exist. He also ruined Alia already. I just hated it. I didn't like the first one either.
as someone who hasn't read the books, I'm glad you agree that there wasn't a buildup to paul's 'breaking point' and his decision to go south and take the water of life (which didn't even feel like a breaking point to me). it felt like that should've had much more weight than the harkonnen carrying out one attack
The scene that irritates me the most was where Stilgar tells Paul he has to cross the erg and come back. He hands him a stilltent and asks him if he knows how to use a paracompass. Paul then starts on what is supposed to be a solo journey to show that he has learned enough to survive in the desert. Then Chani shows up and basically tells Paul that he is too weak to make this simple journey himself so she is going to help him cheat his way to success. Both characters ruined in one scene just to inject the 'love story'. Crap, crap, crap.
@@techterror1282 Paul is not the Messiah. He was not capable of completing the feat of survival in the desert alone. He is an imposter. That is why Chani is so upset throughout the movie as people bow down to him. She knows the truth but nobody will listen to her.
@@ABC-sc2ip But Paul is the Messiah - as in he is the one that the Bene Gesserats created the prophecy about. This movie destroys everything that Paul is. He is mentat-trained, trained in the Bene Gesserat ways - he is actually more than the Ultimate being - he is something different. His son, Leto, is the one who actually does what he fought against doing.
@@ABC-sc2ip "He shall know your ways as though born to them" We just completely ignoring this part, huh? He knew how to fasten a stillsuit correctly, he knew how to sand walk enough to make a long crossing in the open desert, he knew how to use a sand tent, sand compactor, etc etc. He knew all of these things in the first movie, and he just suddenly is incapable of making a shorter trip than the trip he made after the ornithopter went down? Go back to reason, ABC 123
Thank you for this. My theory goes like this: 1. Villeneuve didn't read the book or only read a summary one of his mid-20s lackies wrote 2. Villeneuve didn't UNDERSTAND the themes of the book like politics, religion, intrigue, ecology, history... 3. Villeneuve read and understood them, but decided to make a Star Wars film to make it appeal to a wider audience
I never read the books. I did not like the films. It looked like a long fashion video with pounding sound. It was not cinematic and engaging enough for three hours.
In my opinion this movie is triumph of form over content. And very poor selection of actors. Through whole movie i'v got a feeling, that characters portraited are just dumb, stoned crackheads with rationality deficit.
Read it's transcript. It makes absolutely no sense!!!! It's same with the directors other mother, Bladerunner 2049, nonsensical dialogue filled with massive words, but no meaning or personality. I feel like why people say they like it, is because they want to appear as smart... "yeah,like I totally understand it" (ergo they must be smart). First Dune was rubbish. Won't bother with the second.
@@magicbuns4868 Honestly I couldn't get into bladerunner 2049 and Dune 2 was a walk away, come back, walk away, background noise. I have no clue what the 1st one was about, but I will never attempt to watch another. Just utter trash and yet people praise it. Got me.
I didn’t read the books, and I walked out bewildered and disappointed. I feel the need to read the books to redeem the story for me. Thank you for making me feel sane for not liking either of these films.
And how some scenes make TOTAL sense, like when he randomly asks for another woman’s hand, while being in love with Chani. And the love story with Chani where nothing’s explained, no chemistry just a boring kiss in the middle of the desert.
LOL. Paul's marriage to Irulan is NOT "random". She's the eldest daughter of the Emperor, which means she's the most eligible woman in the Imperium. She's also Bene Gesserit-trained, and under orders to bear the Imperial heir - orders she's unable to carry out, due to Paul's love for Chani and insistence that only Chani will bear his children in spite of her status as concubine. Paul married Irulan as the easiest, quickest way to become Emperor. Absolutely nothing about that was random. It was a power move, and love has nothing to do with it. That's how royalty has done things for tens of millennia, and there are ample precedents in real history.
Loud fart noises and "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" mystical sining, every fucking 5 minutes really takes the epicness away. Same goes for, when EVERY SINGLE FUCKING SCENE is grand, slowmotion riddled and full of intense closeups, it just loses its wind... REALLY FAST. total garbage movie, for real. Actual legit garbage movie. First one was great, so what gives
lol literally! Every fucking scene with Paul whenever he does anything whether it's walking or sitting down looking dramatically at the horizon the music is full blown EARRAPE 😂
100% These so-called actors sure don't seem to be able to act. Florence Pugh isn't that great either. Neither is Anna Taylor-Joy for that matter, this new generation of "actors" need some lessons. Caleb Landry is great.
By an order of magnitude, I'd say. Zendaya's team is very powerful, and uses current times as their advantage. Zendaya is ethnically ambiguous, child star from Disney (thus has followers), fashion icon, her celebrity prowess is not little. There is nothing to be said about her acting chops. Even in Euphoria she gives mildly good part, but is praised to high heavens. Chalamet actually comes off as a better actor next to her, and quite frankly is, just probably miscast and Villeneuve is not famous for being able to utilize the talent he has had.
I think walken was ok, pugh did a good job in this one but I still think irulan is miscast. Should have been Lea as irulan instead of margot. Maybe even austin butler as paul would have been better. Then the girl that played alia in the vision as chani. If we had to use already existing actors in the movie for the big roles.
What the actual f*ck is this movie? Why do they call it Dune? It's missing ALL the key moments, turns, background, motivation and characters of the book. I just finished watching it and I'm furious. This was not Dune, it's a stupid dumpsterfire whitout any driving motif (they forgot to mention WHY IS SPICE SO IMPORTANT) or coherence with the source material. Not even mentioning the bad acting, shit editing, timing, pace. And FFS Jessica was pregnant for how many years again? Paul and Chani's firstborn? Paul's sister killing the Baron? Chani and Paul being truly in love, never doubling each other? What the actual f*ck? And people love it???
Dude the books are not as great as you portray them to be. Yes the movies took a lot of creative Executive decisions to shorten the run time, but the source material is trivial, it rambles, it is filled with plot holes and plot armors, so it's not like the movie bastardizes it
What are you talking about? The characters in the book never knew why spice is so important, we know because its in 3rd person. Only after talking the Water of Life did Paul realise that the Guild Navigators are all deathly addicted to spice.
@@archmaester6594 not exactly. it was revealed to paul and the readers why the spice was so important to the guild and why in the first book the guild is the main force they had to intimidate towards the end by threatening to destroy the spice. the navigators prescients was blocked by a universal "prescient wall" and paul even mentions how they've become helplessly addicted that they couldn't do the simplest things without it, including the BG. in the movie they just threaten the spice without explaining why it is so important or how its used. It is portrayed like "space gasoline", which it isnt.
Sweeping but DULL. Give me the Lynch version with it's awesome score. Maybe there has been such a lack of good movies lately, that audiences are more easily impressed....
Bruh I also enjoyed the vibe of the Lynch movie but thats nostalgia talking not u. Problems with pacing, totally butchered characters and source material, he literally didnt get Herberts vision and thought Paul is the real messiah 😂😂😂
Those are the rose-colored glasses talking. The Lynch version was a mess. Miserable effects, rushed, and a terrible ending. It featured more from the book; but more good ingredients doesn’t change the fact it’s a sh-t sandwich.
The problem is that for some unexplained reason at the end of the movie, Chani is the online remaining person fully opposed to Paul and the position he is in. Why? What makes her so special. She should actually trust him more not less. If she is a rebel, than at least make it believable. Give her backstory or reason to be opposed to Paul. But she simply is because of it.
It is evident through the movie that Chani distrust Paul from the get go but also something to him that intrigues her that eventually turns in to love, however it is made clear that she hates the fanatic religion types of the Freman, but despite this they pursue the relationship. The message of the Dune is of thinking critical and not following blindly prophets and messianic figure. Paul is not a Hero but a cautionary tale of a false messiahs. Chani in the movie is being used as an opposing view to highlight that what Paul is doing is wrong and the Jihad to follow will kill billions of people including her people and destroy her people for who she has been fighting so hard. In the end Chani gets betrayed and decides, even though she loves Paul she knows that she needs to follow her convictions and be true to herself. Which is depicted in her calling the Sandworm. She is going her own way
@@lukeovermind First, why does she distrusts him more than everyone else in the beginning. The movie never explains what special background makes her think like that but pulls it out of thin air. What motivates her belief? Because its not in the book, it is not a problem there but in the movie, it requires an explanation. Additionally, Paul has not done anything non beneficial to the Freemen yet (and he actually won't do so at all). From the Freemens perspective, he literally is their saviour. If he was cruel or would misuse his powers, the criticism towards him as a ruler would be understandable but that is simply not the case. The books do a much better job and showing his fallacy (especially in the second) book. The ending of the second movie completely subverts this message because out of thin air, Paul decides to start a holy war against the entire universe without any motiviation to do so (except the nonsensical one they made up). In the books, he simply looses control over the Freemen because he cannot control what they want to believe and how they interpret his teachings, which he thought he could manage after drinking the water of life. That is the entire point of the first 2 books of Dune and its completely lost in the movies.
I wanted to love this movie(s) so bad. I've read the first 3 books a few times. I would still love the whole GoT treatment for Dune. Dune is more deserving than GoT in my opinion, and I'm a fan of both worlds, read books from both series. I want my 6 hours back. I have been ill for a while, and this will sound melodramatic, but I came pretty close to dying, and one thing I tried to put my mind to was, I don't want to die till I watch Dune. Sounds really dumb to me now, but sometimes you just grasp what you can and focus on anything that gets you through one miserable hour and then the next. Frank Herbert made me hope for a great Dune. Peter Jackson made me believe a brilliant director who's a devoted fan can work magic. I heard it was 6 hours so I really let myself think that this was going to be amazing. Undeniably beautifully shot. We knew it would be. Denis Villeneuve , great, I'm in. But. There's no there, there. Empty calories. Just. What the actual fuck?? I'd have been lost without my long devotion to the books, to fan groups with their encyclopedic devotion. How did anyone who hasn't read the books know what the hell was going on? And why would they sit through this? The actors were just wasted. I expected brilliant acting, and a story line. A plot. What was the point of having all the big name actors in all of these roles for the five minutes we get them? Skarsgard was WASTED. Why did we bother with Christopher Walken? If you cast Christopher freaking Walken, why would you make him narcoleptic? What was the point? I sat down to an 8 course 🍽️ thinking it was going to be the meal of my life, only to find there were Twinkies and Ho Hos under my silver domes. Paul as emo boy is SOOOOOO perfect. Chalamet is an elegant looking young man, but I couldn't connect. Chani. Chani 😢 I have no idea if Zendaya is a good actress, because there was ZERO range. Chani = Angry girl. 😒 From the trailer, I was prepared for an indifferent Chani -- which I wasn't thrilled for, BTW. Paul had to have Chani to be an anchor to keep some semblance of humanity. I guess that Emo-Paul was kind of wooden, so humanity, 😕. I'm always excited for Rebecca Furgesson, and I'm die hard for Florence Pugh. I suffered through "Don't Worry Darling," for Florence, which is dedication. How the hell did we make so many great actors so incredibly dull? There's no there, there. It was empty and with nothing of the Dune storytelling, so what did I spend five hours watching? We got two families, no mysticism, no. . . I got nothing. 6 hours of nothing. Not even interesting fight scenes. Nothing. Javier Bardem, Jason Momoa, Charlotte Rampling, 🤔 . . . Thinking back these were the three I most connected with. This is basically 6 hours of Denis Villenueve jerking off. Just so disappointed. I was surprised at how many people are saying they loved this, more shocked they plan another movie. I need to register my complete and utter DISAPPOINTMENT with the universe. It's unlikely another living soul will read this, but I've just spent my entire night with nothing to show for it, so here it is. Dear universe, I hated Dune. 😤 🤬 💣
Unfortunately, I think your absolutely correct. There is so much from the book that should have been included. So much substance that we missed out on.
@@JoeJD10 Uhm, what? Not sure what logical basis you have for that erroneous conclusion. I would have been much happier had it been true to the books, not changed the story so fundamentally, and included some of the layers of nuance and richness that are inherent in the novel.
@@JoeJD10 I never said they should have put 100% of the book's contents in the films. And there were two films of around 5 hours total. It should have been 3 films in my opinion. Regardless, there is much more they could have included without adding to the time. Show the lifescycle of the spice and worm, few more examples of prescient vision, show some Guild Navigators, and not change the ending completely. That's all. It would have been simple to do these things.
There was soooo much from the book that was left out of the movie. The spacing guild, Alia, the real death of the baron, Chani being the daughter of Kynes, the conversation between chani and Jessica about Paul marrying Irulan, Count Fenring being ordered to kill Paul after he defeated Feyd, and the list just goes on.....
So, it had to be condensed. The main story and the themes were intact. Go read the book. It gives all you want. Gives all you are willing to accept. Why even bother with the rest of this?
@donny1960 to give trolls like you something to bitch about. Literally all I did was talk about what got left out of the movie and you have to get offended like all the rest of the snowflakes on here. Good bye 👋
Because some people rather complain that find the good in things. Herbert had to endure the '80 movie. And he did with class. I think he would have loved the new movies. It was made by a fan of his books and it shows. The Spacing Guild was covered. Alia was in part 2 way more than the physical Alia was in the '80 version. The "real" death of the Baron?. He was killed by an Atreides as revenge for their Father. Done in the way of the Gom Jabbar. Mentioned the Baron was his Grandfather and then killed him like an "Animal". Was perfectly done. Shocking and satisfying. Again this movie covered all the bases of the book. And improved on some of the methods. It is being called one of the best movies ever made by a lot of people. It succeeded. Did not ruin anything.
@@donny1960 did you even read the book?? Literally NONE of what you just said was in the movie. Nothing I said in my op was incorrect. If you have a problem with that, then I suggest you go elsewhere, thank you.
@@donny1960 to piss off trolls like you with too much time on your hands. My point was that there was too much either left out or changed. Nothing I said was incorrect.
Factions within the Fremen is fine. The problem with the movie was that it made factions within factions. The tribe was divided amongst themselves rather than between tribes which goes against the books because a divided tribe does not survive.
The movies not being true to the book wouldn't have to be such a big deal, but you had the director himself explicitly claiming this would be the adaptation that is most faithful to the book.
Maybe it's the book that's the problem. It's supposed to be akin to Game of Thrones, everyone cynically jostling for power. In GoT, everyone acts rationally in their own best interests. In Dune, you haven't got a clue what the characters want or what they're aiming for. Absolute turd of a story.
If youve seen the other adaptations you understand he is telling the truth. But at any rate, its not about the book as it is STILL an adaptation and a sensory buffet...
Well, Not having the skills to receive a message. Does not mean the message was not sent. This movie is a huge success. People are loving every part of it. The Book is one of the most famous and successful in history. And you can't "feel" it..... Sad. For you. Not the material.
What we all have to realize is the truth… That Dune is being heavily pushed and influenced by the Warner Bros. PR and Marketing team. Nearly every reviewer and influencer on social media is saying the same thing verbatim and that right there makes all the so called praise it’s receiving seem awfully suspicious. This movie is not even on the same steps as The Empire Strikes Back or The Two Towers by any means. Is it visually stunning in terms of technical aspects and cinematography - absolutely! But everything else (like the acting and script) were simply serviceable. You know how you’re hungry, and you grab a combo from a nice fast food establishment to satisfy your hunger? That’s how I would describe Dune: Part 2. It gets the job done nicely, but it’s by no means the best meal of your life. Warner Bros. needs a new IP they can market the living daylights out of and Dune fits the bill. Harry Potter is about to be reduced to a streaming series, and James Gunn’s Superman (and DCU as a whole) is still a big gamble. But Dune has become the little engine that could in their eyes. This is why we got Austin Butler, Lea Seydoux, and Florence Pugh in the sequel (and Timothy Chalamet and Zendaya in the first) as they are the “hot” younger generation stars. Speaking of Austin Butler, his performance wasn’t anything to write home about nor was it original. He played the same silent, smiling but deadly, stereotypical villain that we’ve seen in the last nearly 30+ years in cinema - from the T-1000, to Anton Chigurh, and Heath Ledger’s Joker, to everyone in between. They made his performance out to be this great menacing presence, but he was a carbon copy of everything we’ve seen before. This movie was a 6.5 - 7 out of 10 for me (and the 7 is me being generous).
Dune was a real borefest...it's the first time in a theater I literally dozed off couple of times. I went in excited and determined but alas. It did absolutely nothing for me...neither emotionally nor in a way that the "plot" would engross me 'cause I didn't get a lot of things (do I have to read the books to understand it?) and the ending felt like WTH?! Why did just cut off? What was the point?
I feel like I'm insane... I thought this movie was an absolute train wreck. I kept checking my phone to see if the reviews were a joke and fake, because I couldn't believe that I just wasn't getting absorbed by the story.... I had trouble following literally everything. I had watched the 1st movie but realized it was so unmemorable that I had forgotten about it, and then was thinking I would be reminded about the 1st movie by them explaining it away, and they did an awful job if that. I felt lost... I felt like I didn't know what the whole point was. I was creeped out by the Harkonens... and the dialogue just seemed nonsensical. The visuals were amazing but also seemed like action just there just for the sake of action. Where tf was the plot?! SO disappointed.
As a movie for the portion of the audience not familiar with the books, the movie was ok. Unfortunately for the rest of us, a big mess. I have probably an unpopular opinion but I believe the Sci-fi miniseries was the most faithful adaptation to date.
Dune Part Two: A woke story about Zendaya My biggest issue is the depiction of the Fremen being divided in two groups (fundamentalists and not). Without doubt, this has been done due to to the time we live in. First I was confused, then I realized this was a (major) jab at religion and at the people who are believers. That was them saying 'Look at those fools, who believe in a prophecy and are praying, how stupid is that'. Not only they made the Fremen look stupid - they turned one of the most respected characters Stilgar into a fool - but they went further and turned them into religious fanatics. That is basically the modern, heavily influenced by mass media, woke perception of (any) religion. From this they made Jessica into a crazy religious fascist. Instead of accepting being the chosen one, they made Paul reject the idea of being the Messiah over and over again until the very end. And Zendaya, I mean Chani... they butchered her character completely. She does not believe in the prophecy, she does not believe in Paul, she slaps the new leader and Messiah of the Fremen in front of everyone (WTF)... And it all ends with Chani storming out of the audience chamber after she learns that Paul takes the hand of Princess Irulan... into.. yeah, whereto exactly? Great visuals, great actors, no substance, recycled soundtrack, major disappointment. Worse than part one. P.S. It is fair to say, the movie was not made for us, ie for those who are fans of dune. this movie has been made for the wide audience, who never touched the books. That should have been clear from the start. But yeah, it still sucks.
dune was woke when it first came out precisely because its a deconstruction of colonization, religion and centralized power. stilgar is a fool and he realizes that in the third book. the fremen went on to murder billions of people in the name of a holy war, im fine with them being portrayed more fanatic.
Cool I'm not the only one, the pacing was TERRIBLE it took too long to get some real action & then many times the action was super underwhelming I expected WAYY more action (that's why I love the 1st Dune movie so much)
I feel like it's a vacuum right now as far as good blockbuster movies. That and the dying theater industry needing people to go. The whole "Barbenheimer" thing last year. Now this tripe. People are just desperate for things to be normal again, for movies to be "incredible", they're inflating the value of anything not overtly woke.
I have not read the books but did not love this movie. You guys bring up great points but to me it missed on the emotional level. I didn't feel anything when Paul goes God tier. I don't know how else to explain it but in movies like Inception when they get to the final room and the father says "I was disappointed you tried to be me" it was this awesome cathartic pay off that made the movie. Here I got none of that. It feels like things happen just because they are supposed to. Best I've heard it put is this is like Braveheart without the scene where his family is killed.
His changes to the Fremen culture disrupt the overall themes of the book. The Fremen are supposed to be like Islamic jihadis. The whole point is that Paul, who is a moral person, Is backed into a corner by his visions of the future and the terrible choices he is forced to make. Imagine you are on present day earth, You have visions of what absolutely must be done to save humanity, And the only group of people you have at your disposal to accomplish this are the Taliban. Yes the Fremen are supposed to be admirable in their strength and ferocity, but they are supposed to be depicted as the ultimate example of honor culture and crazy dangerous, but DV is in a bind. If he depicts them as Caucasians, he will get yelled at for that So he hast to make them all varying shades of brown. But then, He can't depict them all as being dangerous fanatics or he'll get yelled at for being an Islamic and a bigot for perpetuating negative brown people stereotypes. And since, all the other female characters, although formidable, are morally questionable, he needed to do something to get female audiences to show up, he decided to make Chani this relatable 21st century character. It's pandering. It's annoying. But if you want a studio to give you a $190 million budget, there is probably no way to avoid diluting the story. Getting an adequate ROI means you need the female vote. And women these days, on average, are way more touchy than they used to be about stuff they see on the screen. But there were also some unnecessary changes that were just plain stupid. No Guild acquiescence to Paul's ascendency and so the heretofore non space-faring Fremen immediately commandeer all the Saudarkar ships to go fight a space battle. What the hell? Why?
Agreed... Also another problem is the HARKONENS are completely dehumanised to the point they might as well be ORCS.. It's difficult to be invested in Paul's moral conflicts when his "enemies" are generic dehumanised BADDIES.
Yeah the part where all the Freeman who have never been into outer space we're gonna go and fight in outer space was just laughable. But the total removal of three guild navigators destroyed the story. Without the spacing guild you have no idea why the spice matters.
You talk about women being touchy about what they see on screen and you are ranting about Chani actually being a character and having conflict with Paul...
@@PeachesandCream225 I suppose you think I don't want there to be any strong and interesting female characters at all just because I disagree with DVs decision regarding one female character. Is that where we are going? That I must not like independent and dynamic women with strong personalities because it threatens me or something? I know you want to believe that. Whatever.
Good to find a review that goes against consensus. I'm probably even weirder because I thought the first movie was great and did not like the second one. I did read the first book, but like 20 years ago. For me the first one was a much better planned out movie in terms of scenes and plot, though understandably it was a simpler plot and easier to do. There are too many scenes in this that got boring and didn't add anything, and then so many missed opportunities. -The Chani relationship just seemed odd and took up too much time. Didn't like her as a character and she was annoying. -Harkonnens seemed far less ominous than part 1, and acting more like NPC villians. Why did they give Feyd 'honor' in the final fight, should have kept him as a psycho, and given him the poisoned needle or w/e was in the books. I didn't get it. -Emperor was poorly cast, seemed like a frail old man that should have retired long ago. - Alot of it felt 'rushed', even though it was a long time. I think many scenes could be cut (nuke scenes seemed odd, too many Paul desert scenes), and others should have been added.
Same thing for me. The first had really strong, consistent worldbuilding and interesting ideas to set up part 2. The characters were (at least somewhat) relatable and the villains felt menacing. All of it was subverted in the second part, there were inconsistencies with the first film all over the place. To name a few: Spitting is a sign of respect but crying for the dead is a waste of water? The Fremen are introduced as endogamous and religious people yet Chani can have a romantic relationship with Paul before he even becomes a full member of them? The Harkonnen are supposed to be cunning and tough yet they almost always fight were the enemy has the advantage and drop like flies as a result of it. There are many more but those alone undermine central aspects that were set up in the first film and broke my immersion. People praise it as the new Empire Strikes Back but for me personally it's more like The Last Jedi (grossly exaggerated).
I agree that the first film is much much better, especially as an adaptation. They actually took time to develop things, even though it was still sort of fast. But part 2 was hyper speed through some events that would take years to develop organically. What ever happened to a good ole montage? Haha They did Stilgar so dirty 😑
Same thing here. I thought the first one was great and I wanted more. It was well-paced, it introduced to this whole new world and gave you enough to go even if you didn't read the books (which I have not), the dialogue flowed, the action scenes were tight, etc. This second instalment... the complete opposite. First, I felt it was confusing if you did not know the lore. What exactly are the powers of the Bene Gesserit? How does this telepathy/prophecy thing work? It just seems that some kind of magic appears when convenient. Why are these "houses" rivals? It just seems like the Harkonnens are evil for the sake of being evil, which is boring. The Baron is Paul's gradfather... ok, so what? It felt like a bad take on the Darth Vader reveal (and more like the bad Rey-Palpatine reveal!). What is the emperor's political role? All the political intrigue was just so badly done. Even the logistics of it. Where are the Fremen getting all this equipment from? They barely have any water, but seem to have a massive arms manufacturing capacity!! Compare this to Andor, where we delve into how the Rebellion gets its funding. Second, the dialogue was cheesy. To make yet another Star Wars comparison (yeah, sue me), the Paul/Chadi relationship was more like Anakin/Padme than Han/Leia. Third, the action scenes were a bore. In two ways. On the one hand, they were badly shot. It was unclear who was shooting at whom and where everything was. Compare this to, say, Mad Max Fury Road. On the other hand - and more importantly - there was never any tension. You never felt the characters were in any danger. The good guys shoot slash or punch better than the bad guys, end of story. The only exception was the first action scene where they actually had a challenge (getting through the shield) and had to resolve it and you felt some tension. After that, those dragon-fly helicopter things were just falling out of the sky like it was the easiest thing to achieve. Then Feyd-Rauhta shows up and the Harkonnens start winning. Why? Because of the power of his will? If they knew where the Fremen lived, did it seriously not occur to anyone to just bomb the whole mountain before Feyd arrived? Seriously?! The tide of the war changed for no particular reason, other than that the screenwriters decided so. Even the final one-on-one duel was a bore. He just pulls out a secret blade he had stashed away somewhere. How convenient! A deus-ex machina of hand-to-hand combat, and I knew it was coming. So predictable, so boring.
I’ve never checked the time during a movie at the theatre and I did probably 3 dozen times watching dune 2. It was 3 hours that could be trimmed down to 1 and the plot wouldn’t change. The Zzzzzzm sound effect was used instead of building any actual tension and was used 30 times minimum.
Think about all the subliminals they probably hid inside that Zsssssm sound effect. 😁 "You will like this boring ass movie.. You will proclaim it as a cinematic masterpiece... You will believe it to be the best movie you've ever seen... Even better than Empire Strikes Back." Maybe you're immune ?.. I know I am.
I’d heard this was one of the highest rated films ever made, i went in with huge expectations. But left disappointed. I felt that the majority of this film was spectacle for the sake of it, at the expense of character and world building. It felt that decisions characters made came out of nowhere and had no rhyme or reason as to why they were doing what they were doing. I like the world of it, but it feels like the cliche Hollywood blockbuster moments have been given precedence over story telling. I also think some of the performances were bland. I don’t think it’s terrible by any means but I wanted so much more from it. And I’ve never even read the books.
I didn't think anyone could get on my nerves more than the cult of Christopher Nolan, but these Denis Villeneuve fanboys are some of the most pretentious kids I've ever had to suffer. They're so disgustingly full of their opinions about 'CINEMA' .. ugh .. I can't stand them and their 'Cinematic Masterpieces' ... The same goofballs who think 'The Batman' was comparable to Kubrick or something. Pure idiocy .. I don't think it's just a generational thing either.. my being too old to 'get it'. I think these kids have just been so completely dumbed down they can't see how hollow these movies actually are. It's like flipping through some high end fashion magazine .. It's all very artsy, very minimal, very large, open and sterile. But really it's just a fashion magazine.. A big beautiful giant house filled with a lot of fancy trinkets and furniture you can't touch.
So true, man. I have the same issue. These Nolan, Villenueve and Reeves fanboys are absolutely the worst. These Gen Z kids are so toxic and pretentious!
@@AshrafAnam Yeah .. I don't know what happened with Matt Reeves because I really liked those Planet of the Apes movies. Hopefully it was just a misstep on his part with that boring ass Batman movie, but I'm pretty sure the next one will be the same crap considering how audiences seemed to freak out over it.
@@brendanmohareful Pretty much ... sterile beauty. Like one of those new sex dolls .. A good visual until you look into their cold, dead eyes. Probably would be best to just cover the face with a pillow before enjoying her.
@@AshrafAnam"So toxic and pretentious" you say as you simultaneously invalidate the views of people YOU disagree with because YOU think generational changes in taste and preference are bad. Just be thankful that there are still young people who want to hear Frank's message and take it to heart. I'll defiantly agree that any claim comparing "The Batman" to a Kubrick classic is beyond ridiculous, but I cant help pointing out the obvious irony in your sentiment.
Chani looking Paul in the eyes saying "i'm not doing this gor you, i'm doing this because i'm Fedyken" perfectly exemplifies my frustration with this movie.
I can't think of a single sci fi movie worse than this one. Everyone saying it's the best Sci fi movie ever and I'm like.... Galaxy Quest was cooler than this dull slop.
Paul’s character is diminished and his character’s decisions are give to other characters in the book. Paul alone decides to take the water of life - why did they take this major decision from him. The emperor is a weak character in the movie. His daughter steals his lines and has to explain to him why he should go to dune. And so much more is wrong. If you read the books don’t put yourself through this nonsense.
In the book, Paul took the Water of Life after he failed to foresee that Gurney would try to kill Jessica. In the movie, it's after failing to foresee the attack on Sietch Tabr. That's a positive change. The Emperor is weak in the book, that's why he was threatened by Leto and had him killed. Also what line did Irulan steal? The Emperor had more to do in the movie than the books.
@@archmaester6594 The Emperor in the book still came from a position of power. In the film he was crying that Leto had heart and wobbling around in silence like Joe Biden after 24 hours without handlers. The reason he attacked Leto in the movie isn't really given. In the book it was because he feared Leto's popularity in the Landsraad council as well as between Gurney and Duncan the Atreides army was arguably as good as his Sardaukar. Much of this having to also do with the fact that Duncan is one of 3 sword masters that exist in the universe. So you have a political and military threat. It just made sense.
@@archmaester6594 it was also because during the attack on Sietch Harkonnens killed his and Chani's firstborn son. The book: Paul's son is killed, he fails to forsee the threat from the person he trust, and understands, that taking the water of life is necessary for them to win. The movie: Harkonnen attack Sietch (oh no, the enemy has retaliated), his son is replaced with Chani's girlfriend that nobody, including the movie itself, gives a shit about, Paul talks to Jamis Force Ghost (what?), and then decides to go and take the water of life. How is that nonsense a "positive change"?
Because of "muh strong female characters", that's why. Feminazism. As if the Bene Gesserit wasn't powerful already in the book, lmao. For leftists, there is no such thing as enough power.
Chani brings a lot. she is the voice of reason in midst of infallible faith. Thus why the Fremen are just complacent in fighting Harkonnens (and many other things) waiting for their messiah to come... She cannot sway the masses as social cohesion is strong with faith and reason is not as stabilising and more under scrutiny than faith Stilgar shows this when Paul says he is not their Messiah- he states 'the Messiah is so humble he wouldnt even say he is the Messiah.' faith is the true desert power
3:45 It was worse than part 1. I still cared for Leto more than anyone in part 2. I liked the atmosphere much better- there was a sense of intrigue. Overall Part 1 had more care put to it than this one. The dialogues in Part 2 just sounded like cookie cutter Hollywood lines. Boring characters. No tension. No climax. No emotion. Just things happening without reason. Really bad editing. They were skipping months in between scenes. The Harkonens and Fremans got reduced to jokes. They were all essentially clowns and Paul and his mother were the sole voices of reason. 1 was meh. 2 just straight up sucked.
i came out of the cinema yesterday after watching dune 2 and was like "wtf was that" everything was so rushed and tried to take after the anakin episode 3 star wars vibe when he turns dark and paul was just doing random stuff for no reason
To be completely fair there is no way to do the books justice unless it is long form multi episodic season. Jamming it all into 5 or 6 hours is tough. You must also remember that the director is known for and speaks openly of visual over dialogue / story. I realize it’s not going to please hard core book fans (of which I’m one of Dune, Messiah, Children of, God Emperor, etc.) but be thankful it’s getting attention and breathing life back into Dune. We may yet get some adaptations down the road that are more narratively driven. Time will tell but I don’t hate the movies I guess the way you guys do - to each his own I just tend to set my expectations down a notch when it comes to movie adaptations. I learned to do this after reading To Kill a Mockingbird and then seeing the movie which absolutely did not do the book justice but was decent at capturing the spirit of the book.
Dune is a bad movie because if the movie not the books. The fight scenes are not choreographed that well. The big battles do t have enough actions. The sand worms are rarely ever shown and his sister was reduced in part. All of these things simple needed a better director to make possible. The overall story could stay mostly the same and about 15 minute of slow shots could have been cut and 15 minutes of action shot had been added in and you’d have a better movie. Also zendaya cant act. So everytime she had to convey any emotion other than anger if brought the film down.
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There were some bad edits that confused me.
Stillgar sends Paul out into the desert for a solo camping trip. How did that solo trip end? Did Stillgar find out that Chani helped Paul? Nope. Suddenly the movie jumps to some fremen attacking a spice harvester. Is this attack happening while Paul is on his solo camping trip? Who are these masked fremen? Oh! It's a Paul and Chani! Whaaa? I guess the solo camping trip is done and everthing went great...?? No problems with spiders or centipedes, I guess. And Stillgar was OK with Chani going with Paul on his solo trip?
Another bad edit is the scene where Paul drinks the blue gatorade. The build-up to that scene was way too short. Paul is suddenly at the temple where he goes straight for the beaker of juice. No hesitation. No fear. Just give me the juice so we can get to the next scene. No explanation. No big deal. How did Paul get to the temple ahead of his entourage? It felt like that scene was over edited, too much was cut out. I initially thought it might be a pre-cog dream where Paul dies...but Nope! He drank the juice and that scene is done. Wasn't that scene supposed to be the most important turning point of Paul's life?
THANK YOU SO MUCH! I haven’t heard a single other person call attention to this until now and it drove me NUTS. The waters of life scene is absolutely one of the biggest moments of either of the movies and it was botched hard. Everything you just said I was literally questioning in the theater while watching it. Ruined the rest of the movie for me once I noticed the poor editing.
Yeah wtf was the point of that solo trip like it was set up as if we were going to get a montage of him surviving several days in the desert trying to combat against desert stroms the freezing nights giant worms centipedes and scary ghost spirits haunting him but nah let's have him dancing in the desert with fucking zendaya wtf was that!?
Exactly, very confusing at first. The time wasted on the solo desert crossing could have been better used elsewhere in the movie.
@@Royal_FortuneI'm also ONE OFYOU GUYs..
I've been losin g my MIND with all the reviews and people A S S kissing this movie..
Also....GENERIC BAD GUYS....are generically BAD and evil.....
Why are they "bad and evil"..?..
Cause...
Just cause...
Completely 1 dimensional
@@RammingSpeed-lk8kk I also have to mention how they hyped up the takeover of the planet the entire movie and it lasted maybe 5 minutes up to the point where he fought Feyd-Rautha. The galactic army was defeated anticlimactically, it was incredibly tiny for a force that dominates space. We didn’t even really get to see them fight. Paul literally walks in and seizes the throne with no ceremony in the very next scene following the worms. There was more action during the Harkonnen takeover in the first movie than there was in the takeover of the galactic army, Harkonnens, and planet combined in the second part by the end.
Speaking of the feyd-rautha part, while the fight was visually great I couldn’t care less for feyd because they just turned him into a murderous psycho in the movie and left the extent of his depth as a character at that. They talk about the harkonnens being bloodthirsty killers in the movies but that’s not all they are. They’re are supposed to be cunning and crafty not JUST psychotically violent even though they are bad. So, I totally understand what you mean by the enemies falling flat.
The editing erased all tension. I couldn't put my finger on it at first but a bunch of stuff gets touched on and then it moves on without elaborating
"we have to convince these people because we're in danger. We'll start with the weakest".
Next scene:
All the Fremen follow the Reverend Mother wholeheartedly.
Yup loved the first movie saw this last night very disappointed
Possibly. The characters' development was so shallow that i couldn't believe how Villeneuve went from the masterpiece that was part 1 to this bad "Sauvage" spot. Zendayas "love" for Paul... Don't... Just... 😖. I'm pretty sure the studio demanded a lot to be cut. Look at "Kingdom of heaven". From one of the shallowest movies possible for Scott to make in - cinemas, to possibly the best historical movie of the last 50 years once they released the director's cut.
I just saw this in the movies, and the editing in the first hour and a half had me shaking my head at the abrupt unconnected scenes in the story. This movie was the perfect example of an old video of Trey Parker & Matt Stone giving a scriptwriting seminar where in writing the beats, avoid 'and then'. "This happens, and then this happens, and then this happens, this is not a movie, that's not a story" That is exactly what the first half of the movie was...maybe more, idk, I was pretty dialed out by then.
Disagree completely. Nice to have a film respect my intelligence and ability to fill in the gaps without non-stop exposition dumps.
I just want to say thank you for affirming that I'm not completely insane by being completely dismayed by the critical reception of this film...or at the very least that I'm not alone in my insanity. Also, when you mentioned the power range scene...THANK YOU! I literally said the EXACT same thing to my brother when I watched the first movie! I burst out laughing all of the sudden and I had to explain to him afterward. Holy crap. I'm so unbelievably comforted right now.
Most "critics" and "movie reviewers" don't even watch movies these days
Didnt read the books...but found Chani extremely annoying. She makes fun of the prophecy but sleeps with the chosen one (after he gets the biggest worm in town). She loves him in one scene, then accuses him of wanting to enslave them, then she wants to kill him in the temple, but then she gets jealous of him marrying the princess, so she leaves angry at him etc etc...at the final battle they are all over the place. They start planning the attack at the west side of the valley (from where the nukes are shot), then magically Chani is teletransported and appears under the sand with hundreds of wariors. Paul is in the west, then magically appears in the north with thousands of warriors. The nukes destroy a mountain creating a tsunami of massive boulders and dust that its about to destroy the "palace", but then nothing happens and only some soldiers are killed, but then Stilgar attacks from the opening and nothing is there from the nuke's rubble. The emperors army is supposed to be the best in the universe but they get killed so easily, even in one to one combat. In the first movie they were unbeatable. So many more plotholes and contradictions.
bahahaha it's funny that someone who hasn't read the book could even point the hypocrisy of her character. You nailed the discrepancy between her movie Chani and book Chani perfectly without even reading the book. She is not like some know-it-all, morally superior college student in the book at all. She absolutely knows what the fuck is up, and in actuality, the so called 'exploitation' is mutual. The Fremen are using Paul and Paul is using the Fremen. But Paul doesn't frickin want to, but it's the only way. Chani is literally there to support him as best as she can because it's her people's only chance to make their dreams of turning Arrakis into a paradise.. She literally kills his challengers right outside their tent while Paul is sleeping. They fall deeply deeply in love and it's so sad to see how much Villeneuve butchered this shit, all for the sake of morphing it to the current trends "Omg girl don't you dare bow to that awful man Paul! After he just married that woman gurrrrll cmon!". I actually question whether Villeneuve even read the book since he was 14 years old because it seems like what a 14 year old would only remember when reading the book.
Well to be fair he also literally saves her life, killed a man, and just other stuff that would have made her wet. And I don't think she's jealous at the end, she's mad that her people will now be doing jihad. But yeah the fight scene could have been done better. It's meant to be a "blink and it's over" "battle" scene. And yeah they do get rolled super easy. Happens in the book as well iirc. It's supposed to be a surprise attack right as they're getting there. Like, you get off the transport from the guild highliner and then you get rolled immediately in a surprise attack. The missing rubble was odd tho, I think it's supposed to be that the rubble is "in the storm" in the other shots. Because the worms are coming in during a super-storm with the storm "at their backs" as in the book. I will note that they were not unbeatable in the first movie, we only saw them fight soldiers one time (from behind with harks on the other side of them flanking them). And duncan takes out several and then takes out near a whole squad single handed. Not unbeatable at all. In the books of course it's supposed to be emps guys are better than the guys of the great houses, but the fremen are as good or better than emps men on dune itself.
@@grantwithers 😂 yep. Also true about the power of Fremen warriors vs the rest. I always saw the Fremen as like fatherless children of the universe, or a headless body in need of a head or a leader.
she isn't like that at all in the books.
Being a non-book reader and being able to also deduce that all as well, is amazing
Oddly enough, I felt the movie was rushed. After reading the book the movie felt like the cliff notes (and not the good ones). If I didn’t read them, I would have been totally lost. And, they reinvented the story all the while getting it totally wrong. So they screwed it all up and it’s going to take 40 years on before anyone else will attempt to make a movie (or tv series) again.
@jroar123 I am 100% with you. I saw the first movie and that got me into the book. Wanted to finish it before I saw new movie. I finished the part of the book the movie is based on and was flabbergasted by how everything felt "we need to get through x so we can get to y" and would have been confused without reading it. Water of death becomes nukes, Stilgar is fanatical from the beginning, chani is a pseudo-antagonist when she was ride or die in the book, paul agrees to marry irulan so the landsraad will accept his rule yet go to war at the end because they don't (then why marry irulan? if you are doing a clean sweep of your society and ruling by the sword you make the rules). Visually great but storywise I think lynch's is better
@@nathanjames6454 not to mention the Great Houses come to Arrakis not with Emperor but because Baron sent a message to them that sardaukar are trying to wipe them (even tho they stated multiple times that there are no sattelites above Arrakis, and because of the Moons no signal comes through, which is exactly why Arteides weren't able to call for help, and why their destruction remained a mistery to the rest of the Known Universe), Emperor himself coming to Arrakis not because the Guild forced him to fix the spice production, but because Paul sent him and invitation, Paul being reduced from the most powerful player in the room to a bloodthirsty screaming maniac who Irulan barely saves her father from, bedouins who lived in the desert for their entire life suddenly know how to operate the space ships and go on the conquest, Paul deciding to dring water of life because he had a chat with Jamis Force Ghost. Oh, and Baron's grand plan to seize the throne for Feyd being boiled down to "Imma gonna tell everyone that Emperor helped to destroy Atreides, big bo-bo)))))".
But sure, the masterpiece of a sci-fi.
They filled it up with wasted scenes IMO. Lotta scenes that didn't add much and I was just waiting for something interesting to happen. Could have lost 75% of Chani would have been a good start....
@@OverLorD768 This movie was total trash. The first one had unforgivable mistakes like making Chani’s father into a woman. I guess they thought if it was okay to make that big of a mistake that the fans wouldn’t notice. And, so they multiplied changes to the story so far to the left that it turned into a complete dumpster fire. All they had to do was stick to the book but no, they had to make it more inline with the Biden administration. The movie reeks of leftist Hollywood edits. Oddly enough, all Biden had to do was to continue on the path that Trump had us on and he (Biden) would have gone down as a good (perhaps not great) President. Instead the leftist agenda ruined our Afghanistan withdraw leaving billions of hard earned taxpayer dollars in the hands of our enemies in the form of weapons. The cost in lives from people we promised freedom was in the thousands. You are probably wondering why I mentioned the left and their ideology? It’s because it was injected into this movie and it shows exactly their failures.
@@jroar123I hated both parts, so understand this comes from the heart...
All offense, no due respect, you sound like the silliest most obtuse and unhinged person possible.
If you are resentful of that judgement my offer to you is... To live.
Live another 30, 40, 50 years.
Squeeze all the juice out of the lemon of life and on the day you are called home by God, surrounded by friends and family I hope you take your final dirt nap STILL being resentful.
My main issue with part two is that it cut out / retconned literally everything that made dune great and replaced it with weird alternate timeline non-sense. It was clear Villeneuve had no intentions of being faithful to the source material what so ever. To make it worse he's talking about doing Messiah next, like how is that gonna even work hes already trashed most of the plot that leads into it.
In the end, the Harkonens were reduced to a non threat. They all died quite easily and anti-climatically. Feyd Ruhta was presented as this super insane, super threatening challenge and after he arrives on the planet he's just another generic villain. The Baron was presented as such a threat and is simply stabbed as he lays on the ground saying nothing! After everything the Beast had done, Gurney kills him in a second. Their deaths were just so disappointing to me. For all the build up to Paul taking revenge on them for the destruction of his house, there was barely any emotion to their defeat. Also, the big reveal that Paul and Jessica were Harkonens by blood led to nothing!
The ending also just felt really rushed and felt like a setup for a Part 3. By the time the final battle started I was expecting a HUGE epic battle but it felt like it was over as it was just getting started.
I didn't hate the movie, but the last hour was super disappointing to me.
THATS EXACTLY HOW I FELT, most of the movie he’s just winning and winning, with barely any struggle,
At least we saw him fight a little. The 1984 movie we never say Fayd fight at all till the end.
The Barron is still a threat.
@@Fiorwestcoast Those who know, know
I felt the same way originally but think about it like this. The purpose of dragging sequences on is to create tension, and create parts where you think the fremen/Paul might lose but then they triumph. There’s no reason for that bc it’s well established how dominant the fremen fighters are, and in combination with Paul’s visions of the future the harkonnens/sardaukar are really no match. The tension in the movie instead comes from Paul trying to resist his destiny that’s been engineered for him and that he knows will cause destruction but is necessary. I certainly felt conflicted about his rise to power. I highly recommend watching it again now that you’re not holding it up to expectations set by other movies
So glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Feel like the world's gone mad.
I watched it today it was super lame it oveephyped I'll just stick to the original film and books tv series
Right on
Amen 😂
I watched something, I didn't like it, most people do
Most people must be mad
I alone am sane
I am so confused... how was this f'ed up so badly? I have to drop this here real quick(SPOILER):
In the book, there's a 2 year time jump just like the 2 years between movie releases conveniently. End part 1 with paul taking the water of life and Alia being born aswell as Paul's son leto. Then, after the real life 2 years between the movies part 2 opens after the time jump. Alia, fully grown after 2 years played by Anya taylor joy. Don't even need a real explanation. Then proceed the story just like the book. And Chani... so much time wasted on her unnecessarily changed character..
So much missing... No spacing guild, the importance of spice is undermined, The Emperor looks like he ran away from an old folks home, what is even a Mentat, what is the Kwitatz Haderach, Harkonen cruelty is minimized into random and senseless murder of their own, why is Shai Hulud so important to these people??? Paul now owns the galaxy because nukes??? Chani hates Paul or what??? Theres just so much NOT going on that I left the theater disappointed. Spectacle over substance is a perfect way to put it. I think people are just desperate for movies that arent just a vehicle for "representation and inclusion". Which, I get it, but this isn't it. 5 out of 10. I said what I said.
Kwitatz Haderach is basically what the Bene Gesserit have tested guys like Paul and Feyd for. Which would you have preferred? A sex scene between Vladimir and the young boys he has like in the book? The Shai Hulud are important because it’s like a right of passage for a Fremen to learn how to ride them, No Paul is now emperor because he has the power to destroy spice production on Arrakis which y’know this world needs to run on?, Chani is angry because she watched someone she loves slip away from their humanity and become the prophet. Someone who in the books will cause the deaths of billions. Denis basically gave most of Paul’s inner monologue about his doubts of being the messiah to Chani. Which fair I don’t want any of that clunky exposition like in the Lynch film. There’s a hell of a lot of substance here like about the dangers of hero worship and a character who slowly loses their humanity to become a religious messiah at the cost of lives and becomes a dangerous warlord.
yeah, I got the feeling Chani hates EVERYTHING
Thanks, I can rest now
“Spectacle over substance” EXACTLY
The spacing guild was in the movie. Mentats are shown. The importance of the spice is maintained.
People just like to complain.
They did Alia so dirty and they completely skimmed over the Baron’s death by having Paul do the job instead of Alia.
What? The Baron died like the animal he was. Alia does it. Or Paul. Same result. Different is different. But let's not be so dramatic. The same purpose was served.
@@donny1960 because there is a bloody reason Herbert wrote it that way, and because Villeneuve just flushed Alia's entire storyline from "Messiah" and "Children of Dune" down the drain for the sATisFyInG moment.
@@OverLorD768 You are delusional. Alia is intact. Her role in Messiah can be exactly as written. She will be born. And then ..take it from there. I have no idea what you are talking about. Do you?
@@donny1960 I do, actually. I also love the rage of DV fanboys. It's... invigorating.
Her role in Messiah cannot be "exactly as written", since Villeneuve already gutted the original Dune ending so badly that I have no idea how they are going to bring the story back. No, I do actually, Villeneuve would simply go full fanfiction mode, and write his own version of "Dune Messiah", just as D&D did with Seasons 7 and 8 of Game of Thrones. Also while turning Alia into the saviour, I imagine.
There was a reason why it was Alia who killed the Baron. There was a reason why Reverened saw her and was terrified by her. The whole journey of Alia to become the "Abomination" and being posessed by her victim, the Baron, started in the ending of the original Dune. Herbert wrote it that way. Lynch got it. John Harrison in his miniseries got it. Only Villeneuve thought that he is smarter than Frank Herbert (which is kinda weird for a person who claim that he dreamed about making a Dune movie since he was 12, if you ask me), and got it wrong. But then again, his adaptation of Dune is perfect for an audience like you. All spectacle, no substance.
You do remember in the movie that Alia is in Jessica's body right? This is ridiculous. Just because something doesn't match the book or the movie from the 80s doesn't mean it was somehow cheapened. The way this film enacts the Baron's death was so much more appropriate for the villian that he was. Paul just walked right up to him and stabbed him in the neck.....HELL YEAH! I always thought the portrayal in the old movie was weird and I just never understood it.
Pros:
* Cinematography
* Costumes
* Sets/Locations
* Some Strong supporting roles
* Sandworm Riding Sequence
* Giedi Prime Sequence
* Fight Choreography
Cons:
* Surface level story snd themes compared to the novel and previous Sci-Fi Mini Series (despite having a longer run time than the entire miniseries)
* Poor characterisation of many characters
* Chani's radical character changes
* Zendaya's performance is lackluster
* The Emperor's changes and Chris Walken's performance
* Pacing issues in the last 3rd of the film
* Some shots are gratuitous and take more runtime than they deserve to
* Lackluster finale
If u made a piechart and weigh these pros and cons in them, you'd probably end up with Pros filling 95% of the chart. maybe u ll get away with 85, but nothing less just by how much the pros encompase.
@MsDsfreak Perhaps, though it largely depends on the viewer and what they value. My film-making critic side of my brain weighs things different than my Dune novel fan side, so it's ultimately mixed. I'd re-watch for a great cinematic experience, but for a story and something to think about in any depth afterwards I'll pass as it wasn't very deep at all compared to other comparable films and especially the book it is based loosely on. Glad others enjoy it fully though!
@@JCDenton3 I do think that story can be told by cinematography and it does hell fo a good job to give you the feeling of something mystical, as well as the fundamental themes of time and how these will affect Paul in part 2.
But I guess it will come down to a purist hard fanbase discussion, as it was with Lord of the rings. Where one side will point out any deviations from canon and not regard that devisations are necessary in other medias (especially that film can never encompase all messages, if you dont want to produe a 17h movie or a series, and directors will have to decide on what to focus on), while the other will disregard the canon for the experience.
@@JCDenton3
You say "many characters" were poorly characterized but your only examples were Chani and Shaddam. Chani was changed a bit, fair enough, but so long as she ends up with Paul, that's what matters. As for Shaddam, the Emperor barely appears in the book, so Walken had little to work with. He only appears on the last two or three chapters (out of 48 total), plus a handful of chapter opening quotes. And he fit the role exactly as in the books. The role of a frail, extremely old man, who's desperately clinging to his power and authority.
The finale, apart from the shot of Chani leaving (which ties into the previous complaint), was pretty accurate to the book. Paul defeats Feyd-Rautha in a duel, he threatens the Guild, and gets the Emperor to agree for Irulan to marry Paul. In other words, exactly like in the book.
Pacing issues and gratuitous shots seem like subjective complaints, so too bad for you, but I never felt any pacing issues, and appreciated every "gratuitous" shot.
This (Dune, parts 1&2) is the best and most faithful movie adaptation of DUNE we've ever had, and both me and my two pals I saw it with would give it a 8/10 minimum.
Part 2 had a lot less to work with (Part 1 adapted 33 out of 48 chapters, leaving only 15 for Part 2), so Denis added a few scenes. At first I was gonna use this as a complaint, but they still make sense within the overall story so it's all good.
Turning Jessica, Stilgar and Chani into vehicles for the film's message cheapened their characters and a whole host of stuff just gets mentioned without much of any explanation.
If it was its own generic scifi movie it'd be decent, bit a whole fuck load gets lost in adaptation from the books.
Dune is complex, dumbing it down for the lowest common denominator is why these movies suck so badly for me.
Monopoly is absolutely key to the entire plot.
The spacing guild, The emperor, the Great Houses and CHOAM control spice production. That control represents that monopoly in the Dune Universe, which is the primary plot of the book. Everything else that happens in the progression towards the God Emperor does so because of totalitarian control and monopoly over space travel and spice.
To leave it out is an outrage actually.
Dv has given us a formless unintelligent cadaver of a movie. The major themes
of which have been completely lanced from the story like a boil from an unwashed arse.
Imagine the lord of the rings without the 20 minute prologue.
It would drop the audience into one of the most complex stories ever attempted in cinematic history, and they wouldn’t have a clue what was going on. It would ruin the movies.
More than that, the prologues of LOTR are epic in their own right.
From a practical movie making perspective, taking 20mins at the start of the first movie to explain the world you are about to drop the viewer into, means that you dont have to explain it all later in the story when the weight of it would seriously impact the narrative flow.
Both the lynch Movie and the mini series had prologues because dune NEEDS that for world building. I have more than a few issues with DVs “dune”. (purposefully lower case).
The complete lack of world building is a major factor.
He should never have been allowed to make these movies if his intent was to strip the intelligence out so that a dumbed down zombie public can understand it.
The books are quite clear that the force driving the Jihad is biology - that mankind is becoming genetically isolated on each planet and that there is an inescapable biological drive to have an event that mixes up humans across the occupied planets. This is the source of Paul's bitterness - that even though the spice gives him the power to trace forward different futures, even though he can do this, there is never a way to avoid the Jihad and the death of Chani. So yes religious manipulation, monopoly control are all themes, but the engine driving the plot is biological necessity.
Well, that is your problem. Your focus is off. All you mentioned. The Houses. The emperor. The Guild. They are all bit players. Even Spice is just "fuel". The real story of Dune is what the Bene Gesserit were up to. Creating the "Ultimate Control" device in "The One"...... is the story of Dune. And the lesson. Taking chance and change out of the equation, leads to a dead end for the Human Race. The "Golden Path" had nothing to do with Spice.
You do understand that you have to dumb it down somewhat for the audience
So many people are on this very comment section complaining how boring it was because they didn’t understand what all the pieces were all about and why
Imagine if they included all the stuff about the CHOAM and how the emperor wanted to control everything and that meant getting rid of House Atreides
That being said- I thought DV did bring all of that into these films
It was all right there- from the Bene Gesserit wanting political power to the emperor using his Sardaukar army to maintain control- even teaming up with the Harkonnens to maintain control of his monopoly
I mean what were you watching?!
Dune is complex in the same way as a solid color jigsaw puzzle with only 4 pieces. It's always been that way.
At least now it's somewhat entertaining.
@@DoremiFasolatido1979 Your description goes against 60 years of intelligent analysis of the novel. Thanks for pointing out your inefficiencies and inability to comprehend. Somewhat brave of you. But more likely you are one of "those" that think being a contrarian is somewhat "Cool". But you have failed to come close to pulling that one off.
This is a comment I wrote on Penguinz0s moist meter glowing review of dune part 2 as I could not believe why this film was recieving so much praise. I did really enjoy part one however, differing from your perspective in that way.
:I am incapable of understanding how anyone can think of part two as anything other than an absolute mess, the tropes, the underdevelopment of the love story, the unexplained plot point of the family atomics, the sillyness of the raids on the spice harvesters and feyd rautha's brief appearance.
The extent of the love story in the film was basically Paul and Chani fighting mini bosses and chani goin "great job for an idiot foreigner" Paul pretty much just looks at her and they are 'in love'.
On the topic of the spice harvesting machine mini bosses, these fight scenes are absurd, the fedeyken being in the exact place the ships will land seeming entirely coincidental or not explained. Then, they effortlessly dispatch the Harkonen soldiers and gunships. However this seems entirely pointless when, after all of that effort, they just annihilate them with an all powerful laser gun.
Paul's scenes of becoming fedeyken were also lacklustre, with him basically speedrunning improving his sand walk, and then immediately transitioning to riding the biggest wurm ever seen. (Also, the ease with which the fremen harness and ride the sandworms really detracts from their position as the apex predators of the desert which was disappointing.)
Feyd rautha also seemed to me like a poorly developed character, he just pops up all psychopathic and then utilises the gunships to destroy the seeches. (which I guess had just been floating around doing fuck all previously?) Also in the final fight between Paul and Feyd, we see the old trope of taking a serious wound to land the final blow on an enemy (pretty much Thorin vs Azog.) I would also have preferred to see the characters depravity and cruelty rather than him simply beating up on some dudes in an arena, similar to Ramsay Snow/Bolton from GoT.
I think the plot was simply too boring and predictable even as someone who has not read the original novel, everything being explained in a way that was painfully patronising and ultimately boring. The characters seemed to face really very little adversity and development with every scene just revealing new information or seeing the characters develop new skills at an extremely surface level and at face value. For example, the 'water of life' pretty much just turning Paul into an omniscient super being and entirely changing his character. I simply think there was not enough mystery and organic character development through dialogue and interactions to create compelling, endearing characters. I would compare many of the scenes to pantomimes with Stilgar, Paul and Chani taking turns to pronounce their opinions at each other with the rest of the fedeyken cheering like canned applause when one of the main characters said something important.
The visuals and music were great granted, but they entirely dismantled the emerging ambiance and mystery of arrakis in exchange for repetitive action scenes and clunky dialogue and character development.
I was either bored or cringing for almost the entire film and was massively disappointed in what could have been a tense, thrilling culmination of the political, religious and romantic storylines at play yet the film fell apart on everything besides the visuals.
"Paul pretty much just looks at her and they are 'in love'." nah they're not in lurg, they're just two soldiers banging after he saved her life and she took a shine to him a bit. Tho paul lurgs her. She obviously does not lurg him. Would bang tho, as she ends up doing.
I think it's fair to say that anyone that have a rational mind wouldn't like this movie, like there's literally no attraction, nothing feels good or move you
What I disliked most about this movie is that it tries very hard to depict the most nuanced parts of Herbert's books by simply having the characters repeat words. It was actually annoying to hear Lisan Al gaib repeated to the point it's become a meme. The same could be said about the character constantly muttering Muad dib and kwizats haderach and mahdi. All those ideas had substance in the books but were reduced to buzzwords in the film.
I think FH would detest the thought of trying to turn his magnum opus into Hollywood intellectual property to be exploited through a trilogy.
Agree. All crowds felt very stupid. Raising arms, one or two things are being said, and then they all shout Lisan Al Gaib, this sequence repeated like 3 times in the movie. Really sad.
Are the Harkonnens also comically stupid in the books? Cause in this movie they were fucking pathetic. All the fights were so one sided it felt like there was no conflict at all.
No, they're cunning and very dangerous in the books.
I also didn't like how they were all just randomly killing each other. It was a very lazy way to emphasize how cruel and psychotic they were. It was so predictable and weak.
Right?! The "good guys" just seem to have infinite resources and are just better at everything. There's the one scene where the Harkonnen destroy the Freman city by just bombing it... as if that had never occurred to anyone before? And after that they just go back to being really bad at war.
The fight is one-sided because Paul is basically Space Jesus/Genghis Khan... Its not about whether he wins a fight but whether he should be fighting. If that's boring then you can always watch the generic action flicks that come out every few months
@@archmaester6594 This was supposed to be the Emperors army the most powerful army in the universe and this ragtag band of sand insurgents crushed them in like 5 mins. Such a stupid movie..
2 movies and 5 hours later, and we’re still waiting for the story to start 😀
These films are beautiful, but hollow. I was impressed and bored at the same time.
Have you read the books?
Yes. All 6 Frank Herbert books. Admittedly that’s likely why I found the films lacking, because I thought they glossed over or left out so much important stuff.
@@elenaphisher244 But you do understand that it's impossible to fully and faithfully adapt Dune to the silver screen, right? A book is capable of telling a story in a way a film will never. You'd need to have a 10 hour + movie in order to include everything from the books. Hell, maybe even more time. Therefore, considering the time constraints of cinema, don't you think they did a decent job?
@@joaosantos5503it's not at all impossible. The miniseries had ONE HOUR LESS to work with than both movies, and they managed to nail 90% of the book. It didn't have an overly quick pace, either, so you can't claim it all happened too fast.
It IS possible. It's just not possible by half your runtime covering overly long self indulgent shots of spaceships landing, people walking through hallways and staring at each other intensely.
You gotta pick up the pace!
@@humbleopulence So you recommend it, then? And this would be the early 2000s mini series? I'd like to watch it. Would you say it adapts the books the best.
Not a book reader nor have I seen the Lynch version but I actually loved Part One. However I was super disappoInted with Part Two. The Harkonens seemed lame and weak in this one. The Fade and Rabban duels were anticlImactic AF. I still don't really understand the value and power of Spice. I don't connect with or like any of the characters, especially Chani. Also is the Emperor supposed to seem like the weakest man in the Universe?
Read the book
@@ErenThorne watch a good movie
@@gabrielrodriguez463 Hey ret****. Did I say the movie was good?
The emperor isn’t weak, he just isn’t the main focus.
Yeah exactly the same. I really liked part 1.
They were just boring movies because they lacked good storytelling.
😂😂😂 wow, this made me gag lol
@@GreyEagle_35 it was a boring movie bro.
😭
I'm confused about why in some scenes they have machine guns and attack helicopters and rpg like laser beams but then in the final battle scene or even in the first movie they're all fighting hand to hand with sword's??
Like what???😂😂
Film doesn't explain it, but its because a lasgun hitting a shield can cause a nuclear explosion.
Zendaya can't act which shows you it was style over content. She is as bland as a concrete wall. A robot would create more emotion.
Exactly this, this Chani ended up being more infantalized than ever; 80% kiddy tantrums. Honestly, the writing was as bland as her acting.
99% of the movie is just actor mewing like wtf is that especially when the director keeps zooming on the face for several minutes like it's significant at any level
Rushed, shallow, non sensical, soulless....talking about the movie.
absolutely!
There are several points which massively could improve this waste-of-a-time-movie:
Take the last 20 minutes of the last movie and take that as a setup for the beginning of part 2.
The Harkonnens are almost non-existant and that means a lot when they are the antagonists in a 167 min movie. In the book the Baron is one of the main characters and also VERY verbal, explaining a lot about the world of Dune. Without reading the books first, a viewer is completely lost during some scenes.
The Emperor looked like a guy ready to die. Sure he was 79 in the books, but he was said to look like 40. Christopher Walken was severely miscast. He sticks out as a sore thumb.
Irulan was a wasted character as well- going from a key political figure to a mere bystander, who has a plot going with the Bene-Gesserit until she suddenly stops to be relevant.
Paul and his messiah-like position was played for laughs, especially the scene that was basically a copy from "Life of Brian". His problem of not-wanting to become a prophet due to the resulting millions of lives lost is simply gone after mentioning it once.
Channi was again a non-character except for antagonizing Paul for most of the time. The movie basically skips 2 years and we should just imagine why Paul fell in love with her. This never works in a movie. Just because characters are male and female and close in proximity doesnt explain a relationship.
The biggest joke to me however was when the Emperor came to Arrakis and "he brought all his ships and entire military power", just so they could defeat him in like 5 minutes.
I basically thought the nukes missed the Emperor's ship, but the movie treated it as if the idea of nuking the mountains and then riding the worms through the resulting opening to fight the Emperors army was better than simply nuking his army directly.... like what?
For being more than 2 and a half hours long this movie wastes so much time on nothing.
Your comment is longer than the movie
@@danculbert6349If reading my comment takes longer for you than watching a two and a half hour movie then your education system clearly has failed you. Sorry to hear that.
But he needed the emperor alive to make his play for ascension by marrying the daughter... what are you talking about?
@@wookianer what would stop Paul from marrying the emperor's daughter even if the emperor would die? 🤔 Plus, I never said the emperor should die, so I dont know who you are answering to...
@@christophschutz4470that’s why they didn’t bomb the center it was more of a distraction they wanted the important people alive. Paul wanted revenge.
Chani’s character was so dry and impossible to believe, 4/10 acting all around, cinematically amazing
@@teko363 ugh. I really love the concept of her character, but the way chani’s relationship w Paul evolved was so sudden, and seemingly hollow, unearned, so unfortunate, most overrated movies ever
@@brycebrown6596 i fully agree. Maybe shes a great actress in other projects, but in this movie she and her character were incredibly bad. Could be that it was the fault of the director or the screenwriters or who knows. But yeah, fully agree, and thanks for sharing
@@gabrielrodriguez463Her only reaction was FROWNY FACE. I think twice she laughed or smiled. I didn't understand how she loved Paul when Chani just glared at him. Hopefully the wrinkled forehead and down turned mouth is not result of acting coach?
@@teko363 idk about that, maybe, but I had heard irulan gets much more time
Nothing memorable! Cinematics were MEH...
Dune part 2 felt rushed, neglected. And all we got in return is an infantalized Chani who throws tantrums whenever people do the things she suggests they should do. What a shame, as part 1 was quite alright.
Whole structure of the both movies is: X has to happen… (X happens just 30 seconds later). No build up, no tension. Just things… happening😂
Or... Paul has to do this. Okay, now it's 3 months later, but also only 3 days later. Paul did the thing or something. Who cares this is happening right now. You love this. Next on the checklist...
Chani and Paul's relationship development felt rushed and at times very jarring.
one scene she's laughing at Paul, next scene she's helping him cheat his survival challenge.
One scene she's angry at the prophecy, next scene they're kissing in the tent.
Like wtf is going on? And y'all thought Anakin and Padme's love story was weird haha.
Ppl much more prefer absurd and sporadic love stories lol
95% of ppl seem to LOVE Chani and Zendaya’s acting
I don’t get it AT ALL, but it is what it is
@thecarter8700 99%? No. Sorry that's bs. No chemistry
@@el34glo59 Ppl loved her as Chani lmaoo .. I swear
Well, you see, couples are made of two people. Over the course of multiple months, they may agree or disagree on things. So when the film covers that vast amount of time, it also covers the start, ups, downs, and end of their relationship.
Thank you, I get it! And I feel the same. Then she slaps him in the face when he does
the most amazing thing and wakes up from drinking the water of life. This was so jarring
at such a perfect moment in the film.
As a book reader myself, this felt very nitpicky and ignorant to the language of cinema. As much as I love all the in depth lore dumps of Dune and do totally get being upset at not getting a ton of that, I also think Denis is able to visuallly communicate the small things really well. Unfortunately, you can't just have characters explain the world and lore all the time without it feeling completely contrived, that's why I think a lot of Denis' changes make perfect sense for a film.
Some stuff I agree on, removing some of the Chani backstory is a weird choice, but I get it and the further changes to her character to give the story a little more drama and to give a pretty big change for book readers at the end, not sure how Messiah will look with Chani potentially not being around. The Alia change is unfortunate but again, I get it, it's either have a super smart two year old, go forward further than the books but risk mucking up the whole timeline more than need be, or do the visually interesting unborn thing. Sad about the implications for a potentially CoD film however, Denis has stated he only intends to do up to Messiah and honestly, as much as I love all the Dune books by Frank Herbert, they do get into unfilmable territory at Children of Dune anyways.
Children of Dune is my favourite and as much as I would love to see it filmed, it's deffo near impossible. Dune part one got me into the books, I wasn't a huge fan of part two but I hope it gets people into the books like part one did for me :)
It's been filmed already...sucky SciFi channel version@@RJay_Mac
@@RJay_Mac Children of Dune miniseries was good
If Villeneuve does something similar as in break up CoD into couple films it might work
Whatever DV accomplished through his visual representation was torn down for his complete lack of adhering to the narrative of the story. Few of the characters were true to their book counterparts to the point that key events are now completely different, as well as pacing of the overall story. Nothing is the same by the end of Dune part 2. 70% of the events in the movie just don't take place, and the events that do are not true to the book.
Yeah, like... for at least the part I could be arsed to sit through, all I really was thinking was "it's okay guys, you're allowed to just say you don't like movies."
But then they wouldn't have anything to ragebait about.
So many important parts of the story left out. If you haven't read the books, half the crap in the movie make little sense as to why anything is happening.
that's how I feel
I'm in a rare camp in that I loved the first Dune movie. I'll preface that I had very little knowledge of Dune other than growing up in 80s. It made me want to dive into this world. Dune Part 2, I walked out of there empty. All the visual and sound praise it's gotten....sure. But story wise, character wise, and world building, completely empty.
Yup, I took my gummies... sat in the imax... cried... felt everything... and then the last act started seriously changing the story up... I felt my core twisting, and instead of enjoying the changes, my mind started comparing P1 w/ P2... I left the theater cold and disgusted.
6 hours if Villeneuve has nothing on 2.5 hours of Lynch.
I also watched Lynch first and then wanted to read the books. The performances and story-telling are so much more convincing. Lynch’s actors are all warm and vibrant, even the villains. Villeneuve is all visual aesthetic and very little real human connection.
same. the first dune made its world seem very big and mysterious. the second made it seem small and straight-forward. pretty disappointing.
I actually liked Dune 1. It gives the story details the time it needs.
Same exqct experience with both movies
You guys are spot on. Walked away from the film bored and disappointed. Dudes comments about Chaney turning into a girl boss is so true. Basically ruined the story in the movie.
Glad I found your review, helped validate what I was thinking.
I'd rather see a "girl boss" character as you put it, that actually is conflicted and more accurately portrays how almost anyone would react to the situation before them, than a subservient fangirl.
@@kennykenevil57strife changes a person. It's a reality that many do not understand these days. Terrible demonstration of who Cheney was as a character in the world that she was in. Fine yoo-hoo goes to Starbucks on the weekends. Would probably react like she did in the movie but that's not how you would act if you grew up in Cheney's shoes.
@@techterror1282 How about you learn to articulate your points better before saying anything, I don't even know what you're trying to say. And her name is Chani not Cheney.
Super disappointed by part 2.
Same
When a 20 mil. budget TV Miniseries from two decades ago is much better than a 315 m. double movie Hollywood blockbuster.
After finally watching it (part 1 and 2) I must say that the main personage is a Mary Sue on steroids, the entire concept is too boring when the protagonist can't be hurt and I never felt really worried for him. His love interest is unlikable, the personage I was interested in was the daughter of the emperor but she has like 5 minutes of screentime.
There were a couple more issues for me:
1) The role of the spice in the universe of Dune is not remarked enough...people are fighting over it but, since they forgot to mention the Spacing Guild, its importance is never brought to centre stage
2) I hated that they used the word "fundamentalist" to describe the Fremen that lived South...it's a term that is used too often inappropriately in the current political discourse and in a discriminatory manner...what do they mean exactly? That they are believers? That they live their life differently? Never clarified, but there is a dangerous overlap between being religious and a "fundamentalist" I disliked
3) The Harkonnen planet was artsy but hollow...didn't communicate anything. It was obviously not a place fit for human life, even human life of psychos...the throat slashing was excessive and lost its punch after a while (yes they are all psychos, we get it). The cultist vibe I've got from the Harkonnen wasn't imho in the spirit of the books
4) Not even a little was explained of the mysteries of Arrakis, the nature of worms, the sand trout et.
5) The transformation of Paul was too rapid...they spent a lot of time repeating actions scenes of raids vs harvesters and then, all of a sudden, Paul drinks the Slush Puppie and becomes a badass....
6) Stilgar, poor Stilgar...
I'm sure that given a billion dollars and 20 hours of run time, Villeneuve would have done better. Just saying. The biggest problem is that kids just dont read anymore. I'm sure he had to contend with that thought. I read it first at 15, then again and Messiah at 22. But that was almost 40 years ago before social media became the Monster it is. Personally waiting for that Butlerian Jihad, lol.
@@charlessomerset9754 The biggest problem with fans nowadays is that they expect everyone to know everything before they go to enjoy a movie. The purpose of a motion picture is to let the people know what the thing it's made on or the source material really is through its writing, directing, editing and photography. If Dune has to depend on the reading of the source material beforehand to communicate, it fails miserably as a film. Compare this with The Lord of the Rings trilogy of films. They set up the premise and engross and captivate the audience through both storytelling and cinematography. I and a lot of people have never read the books but we absolute are LotR fans.
@@charlessomerset9754money rules all. This had to sell to pg13s and the entire international community. We will never get quotes like "Try looking into that place where you dare not look! You'll find me there, staring out at you!" on screen again.
@@AshrafAnam This trash bag of a movie "Dune" doesn't even come close to being as great as LotR. With ya on that. 👍🏻.. Hell , I liked David Lynch's movie better. At least it was interesting, weird and memorable. Dune is just a completely dead watch.
I am not an hardcore fan of the books though. And still I think that part 2 is an empty shell, more than 1. Little effort in world building which is why comparing this to LotR is madness.
I never read the books but even I think its not a good movie. At least not as good as the hype make it seem..
It just never felt like the fremen were fighting a superior force. They were never in any danger.
The villains were built up to die patheticly.
The romance gave me a headache. There is no chemistry.
The villains keep randomly killing their own goons to show how crazy bad they are which really amounted to nothing, felt cheap.
I mean the Harkonnens are the only interesting parts, the actors at least can act unlike the protagonists.
I feel like they didn't really want to show how sadistic the harconans were because it would destroy the ratings and be too much to put on screen.
In the David Lynch version you really understood why Paul and Chani fell in love but there is no chemistry at all in Dune2
@@77Avadon77Lol what?!
They meet. Instant time jump. Boom, passionately in love with clunky ass hell exposition telling the audience they fell in love apparently.
So so bad.
@@travisspazz1624 It's so rushed in the Lynch version for sure, but I think the chemistry was so much stronger with the way Paul gazes longingly at Chani and realizes she's so beautiful while she smiles at him and fondly says, "Tell me of your homeworld, Usul," ending the scene with Paul reaching out his hand towards her. It's very subtle and quick but seems to hit all the right emotional notes combined with the music which does a lot of work.
I think the more surreal quality of the Lynch film also helps with that blazing-fast pace in the latter half, like the shot of the water fading into Paul and Chani kissing passionately which seems almost dream-like. Lynch also visually ties their love to water symbolically, as the first scene of Paul and Chanti falling for each other is after seeing one of the Fremen's water caches, and their love-making scene is then followed by almost the same shot of the water cache. It's very poetic and efficient with the way it all comes together. Even with the rush and fast-forwarding through so many events, there was enough set up there for me to easily imagine how and why they could have fallen so deeply for each other soon after their first encounter.
Also because Paul and Chani almost immediately show signs of attraction to each other on first meeting in the Lynch version (love at first sight), I think it adds more weight to all of Paul's visions of her earlier in the same film. It's like he was already falling for Chani before he even met her through his visions. So those visions themselves function more like a build up for the developing romance in Lynch's version; Chani becomes the woman of Paul's dreams in the romantic sense and not just the literal one.
With this version, we get much more time spent between Paul and Chani including them fighting together in a dire circumstance, and they ultimately fall for each other over the sunset scene where they exchange a bit about their backgrounds. Paul: "Well, I'd very much like to be equal to you." Chani: "[...] maybe you could be Fremen." [They kiss each other, fade out]. Yet it doesn't really seem to have that same chemistry to me. I'm not perfectly sure why. I think it's more in the body language and acting, since if I read the screenplay, I would have thought everything was there to build up a very interesting and compelling romance. Yet it fell even flatter than Lynch's version (for me at least) despite devoting much more screen time to the interaction of these two characters.
Well, to be frank I have trouble concentrating on any Villeneuve movie because, whatever the story, the visual semantics always belong more to a luxury lifestyle magazine than to the story itself. It creates interferences.
So in this case the story was epic/mystical/political, but the images said "go spend your holidays in that luxury resort in Morocco where you will meet beautiful people".
Whoa! You are absolutely correct, sir! I just call his Dune films "Vignettes of Dune" cause they're not actual movies, but I gotta say, you make a good case for "Denis Villeneuve - Travel Agency Photographer"
Omg! You just described what I couldn't put into words 😱
I don’t get this take at all the set design in these movies are incredible are we even looking at the same thing. Pretentious take
All of his movies are pretentious. His best movie is probably Prisoners. But even that movie has some plot holes and inconsistencies.
Arrival was his best film, not only because it had a clever twist in the 3rd act, but because the conversations between the characters felt like actual plot progression taking place; intelligent professionals in consistent character discussing ideas in conversations that flowed naturally. Scenes actually felt like scenes and not as you put it, vignettes.
All the villains went from terrifying to comicbook stupid and the protagonist achieved victory with little to no adversity.
i was shocked how easily they won and shocked at seeing the barren killed so easily
In his rush to Paul into a cult leader, Denis ended up turning him into a Mary Sue girl boss. Which ironically had the opposite effect on young men who added him to the "literally me" character pantheon.
...That's how it happened in the book though. They caught them off guard with their pants down for a quick and brutal victory. The entire battle of Arrakeen was a single chapter that my have also included the Feyd dual and ending.
I just finished watching it and I literally cannot remember if there was any type of conflict in this movie. Like... Genuinely. Maybe if anything there was manufactured tension between zendaya and timothee's characters toward the end? But they didn't really have a relationship established anyway
@@teko363 then that's just bad writing
Zendaya can't act. She always brings any project down with her bad acting.
nah she was pretty good in euphoria. there’s only so much one can do with a shitty script like this one though
Exactly this. Maddening. Same for Bautista. Why do they keep casting this baboon.
The last 20 minutes is 80% close up of Zendaya scowling....which what she did the whole movie. Biggest wet blanket character.
@@Coolsville77 it’s not her fault man, there’s only so much an actor can do when the director is a self indulgent prick with bad taste. poor woman had to mysteriously slow-mo walk around a desert, saying nothing, doing nothing, yet somehow keeping it entertaining for hours, idk how she did it. i would have bursted out laughing by the 5th dramatic seductive head turn into the camera
Bro this tells me you’ve literally not seen her in anything else 😂
I saw the movie last night while I was very tired. I should've stayed home and slept, as that would've been a better use of my time. It was painfully slow, lacked meaningful character development, felt very repetitive, had annoying characters, and very little actually happened. Some cool action and fights here and there, but otherwise I was massively underwhelmed.
Very poor follow-up to the first part, which was setting up some cool stuff. I didn't love the first part as it was mostly set up for future movies, but I still wanted to see where it would go. And well, here we are.
At least the popcorn was good. That was my favorite part, actually.
What I find disappointing is how the Scifi Miniseries (Director's Cut) managed to cover more of the plot with a better & more consistent sense of progression than these 2 movies did and in less time too. That miniseries & it's sequel (Children of Dune) had it's drawbacks, especially in budget fx but I think it did the best job of telling the story so far despite a few changes & condensing of plot & characters. As for Lynch's Dune, that will always be the one visually etched into my brain, especially as the cinematics in the Dune games followed it.... That leaves nothing really that I found the new films did better than the old material.
Christopher Walken was in his pajamas channeling Joe Biden.
Then he was channeling someone good, President Joe Biden. Unlike Dangerous Dumb Donald Treasonous Trump.
Christopher Walken actually spoke clearly though and he was kissing rings not sniffing kids.
@@Brydigan94You guys need to get out more.
@@jbibro Bro, I just got back from Mexico I was outside all day today. What more do you want?
@@Brydigan94 Connecting politics to everything is a downer. That’s all I’m saying. 😎
"Spectacle over substance"... 100% describes V's D1. So dull and drawn out, undewhelming. Lynch's Dune is frenetic and dreamy with strange depth.
Quality over Quantity.
Lol sure. Lynch hates that movie and I agree. It just looks like a porn parody by comparison!
What? You didn't like the single bagpipe guy leading the coronation in D1? I think his name was Ned. I think Lynch's Dune carried more weight, and did the heavy lifting this version lacked.
Lynch's Dune was way more dull and drawn out, trying to pack everything into one movie while managing to hit every lame sci-fi trope of the 80's.
@@kennykenevil57 😆 wrong
I thought the Lynch Dune was better at giving more details and Paul seemed more powerful and charismatic.
And that's in one movie!
They changed many things (sound modules...) in the Lynch movie and touched stuff with one sentence which was only useful for people who read the book.
@@reinhard8053DV made far more egregious changes in his abominations
@@immortal5812 Egregious? Wow look at this book worm
@@kwzatsand worm
@@kwzat god forbid people have a vocabulary, simpleton.
I’m so happy that there is someone out there who agrees with me.
100%.
Also difficult to be invested in the idea Paul is CONFLICTED about his conquest when all the "enemies" are generic bad guys(who have been dehumanised).
Yes, enjoy your little echo chambers lmfao. You people are pathetic.
This movie was awful, and had the most awful fight scenes. The acting and story sucked too.
I wanted to like it everybody says it’s great, I thought the dialogue kinda sucked, the love story was cringy asl, there was super cool themes and lil nuggets of the dopest most creative shit but the battles except for the beginning, was pretty cool but the visuals were sick I didn’t like Paul I thought the harkenens were done rlly well but everything felt kinda flat, I don’t understand why stuff happens it likes glosses over stuff. Idk it was just underwhelming.
How I’m feeling
My feelings exactly
The dialogue was just bad. Too much time spent on 'Look at Paul, he is stupid, I hate him. Yeah, me too, haha'
Yup. Glad Im not the only one. Villeneuve interpretation is beautiful from outside but empty from inside.
well put!
Sadly I agree. Just got back from seeing it. And I loved part one! I just think the story is kinda mid. I was hoping for more.
I had massive issues with the factionalization of the Fremen/Chani. Theoretically I like the idea of adding complexity to Fremen belief/culture, I just don't think this was done well, and DV might have made it worse. Herbert's inspiration for the Fremen came from Ibn Khaldun - his idea of 'Asabiyyah (group feeling/solidarity) is key here - but DV's (shallow) factionalization cuts against the themes/inspiration of the Fremen's longer arc: 'asabiyyah/unity being forged in a harsh environment, which allows them to usurp, but which is then lost as they achieve power/cosmopolitanism.
The very simplistic/binary split of North vs. South = Enlightened Skeptics vs 'Fundamentalists' felt extremely shallow and surface level of how splits in belief and culture actually manifest in such a tightly-knit community/culture, and totally misses what's interesting in the middle/margins. The split's artificiality also divorces the Fremen culture from FH's themes of how ideology/'assabiyah is rooted in ecological-sociological reality.
I also just didn't like the use of the term ‘fundamentalist’. Using/applying it to label all southerners just seems out of place in Fremen culture, and making out Stilgar/Southern ‘fundamentalists’ to be these gullible irrational fools completely negates the complexity of how deep culture/belief shapes your faculties and actions, influences eventualities, and misses the ways it can be wrestled with within the cultural context. It also trivializes the ecological/survival impetus of Fremen belief collapsing it into something purely ideological. In a way DV's approach is worse than just leaving all the Fremen as 'believers'.
I see what DV was trying to do, but adding the skeptic Northerners (an obvious modern/American insert) v Southerners ends up reinforcing/flattening the stereotype of the gullible native religious fool rather than nuancing it. DV seems to have brought a very modern/christian sensibility to belief, as opposed to what I imagine the Fremen (muslim/bedouin/Ibn Khaldun-inspired) belief/culture to be like and how FH understood it.
Making Chani a perfectly enlightened skeptic, without seeing how that would impact her perception by/of the Fremen society and relationship to Paul, didn't seem to be thought through properly and misses what makes her interesting as a character and her senses of duty (to the planet, culture, people, paul etc.). Chani storming off at the end also seemed to gloss over this, and Chani/a whole faction knowing about the Bene Gesserit plan of religious manipulation seems like a massive change with unexplored implications.
Regarding the film as a whole, while very beautiful/successful most of the time, there were also a lot of times where the movie began to feel a bit hollow/stifled by DV's style/editing and his stated aversion to dialogue. I also felt the architecture could have been a lot more ornate in Kaitan/the throne, and scenes like the armies outside with the flags seemed overly minimalistic/stylized to me, and despite the length a lot of the bigger moments felt very rushed. I also wish there was more of Irulan/Shaddam/Kaitan/Guild/CHOAM.
Overall though I enjoyed it for what it was and I'm glad it exists, but the changes to the religious/political themes and simplifications of the political machinations (and lack of Guild/CHOAM) were disappointing. I understand the need for the adaptation to streamline, but I'm worried that DV is missing some of the ways in which the themes/arcs are changed, and if he has the ability/had the foresight to account for this to redo Messiah. But I'll suspend my final judgment for when Part 3 comes out
The crazily overhyped response to this is also totally wild. It feels like internet culture knows/is told that Dune is considered to be very influential/smart/deep (which it is), and DV is hypercool, so people are tripping over themselves to explain why it's the best movie ever without actually engaging with it.
Spot on
@@pabloenriquetorresmorales1141 thanks!
@@pabloenriquetorresmorales1141 thanks!
I tought exactally like that about the treatment of Freemens religious belifes. In Children of Dune as an contrast, the freemens Who rejects Paul were the MOST religious radicals of the interior desert, from Jakurutu's Sietch.
"Enlighted secular freemen" just sound lame and cringe to me. Chani Zendaya was MCU MJ teleported to Dune...
"despite its length the bigger moments felt rushed" I felt the EXACT same way!!!!
A 3 hour movie that felt like 6 hours with enough content to fill 90 minutes.
Felt like they should had put Dune part 1 and part 2 into a full movie, barely anything happend.
@@danielmedjedovic7068it could've just be a 30 min anime shorts and it'd be way better
The movie is boring and slow, with poor storytelling. Part 1 and Part 2 could easily be combined into one movie. Zendaya is miscast; it's funny when she tries to act like a bad-ass and makes that stupid mean face.
This whole comment section is full of wrong opinions lmaooo
Combining them into one movie would literally be the worst possible way to approach Dune.
@@kennykenevil57yeah My opinion is it should have been three movies as that would have allowed for them to fit the things in that would have made the pacing right
@@techterror1282 This would have been great since the book is actually seperated into 3 sections.
Never seen a united comment section be so wrong lmao this is incredible
It was respectable but to call this a masterpiece just proves how much people are starving for “good” movies again.
I mean just look at lineup of movies since the year started. Weak af. This year we are getting blockbusters like a quiet place 2...Road House remake... Nosferatu... like the year could not look more boring
They are calling it a masterpiece because that's what they believe, and I believe it too. It seems this is the den of Dune haters lol. I don't get why many here hate it but that's fine, to each their own.
"Starving for good movies again" Dune 2 was originally scheduled to be released fall of 2023 and 2023 had good share of excellent movies: Oppenheimer, Killers of the Flower Moon, The Zone of Interest, Anatomy of a Fall, The Boy and the Heron. Are you not aware of these movies?
If this was masterpiece then what was terminator 2 ?? Askk the kids😂
This. I love the book but I knew they weren’t going to be able to capture all the story and lore. I went for the sound and visuals and was very pleased
Well, they turned Chani and Jessica into entirely different people, as they did Stilgar actually. Timothee Chalamet is a terrible actor and had a vacant expression the entire time. Zendaya was just scowling or looking slightly puzzled. The chemistry between her and Paul doesn't exist. He also ruined Alia already. I just hated it. I didn't like the first one either.
You just laid out every thing I felt towards the movies.
Zendaya with the angry toddler vibes...
as someone who hasn't read the books, I'm glad you agree that there wasn't a buildup to paul's 'breaking point' and his decision to go south and take the water of life (which didn't even feel like a breaking point to me). it felt like that should've had much more weight than the harkonnen carrying out one attack
Fortnite slurp juice, hand it over
I loved part 1 and hated part 2 except for the visuals and sound. I didn't care about the characters the way I did in part 1
Totally what I felt. Looks like they were directed by two different persons
I kind of felt the same way. I was much more invested in the story of part 1.
Same I loved part 1. Part 2 was just a Paul victory lap with 0 adversity.
Bro, I absolutely hated Part 1. One of the most boring and monotonous movies I’ve ever watched.
The scene that irritates me the most was where Stilgar tells Paul he has to cross the erg and come back. He hands him a stilltent and asks him if he knows how to use a paracompass. Paul then starts on what is supposed to be a solo journey to show that he has learned enough to survive in the desert. Then Chani shows up and basically tells Paul that he is too weak to make this simple journey himself so she is going to help him cheat his way to success.
Both characters ruined in one scene just to inject the 'love story'. Crap, crap, crap.
Wow. Way to miss the point ey.
@@joshuahendricks9558what point?
@@techterror1282 Paul is not the Messiah. He was not capable of completing the feat of survival in the desert alone. He is an imposter. That is why Chani is so upset throughout the movie as people bow down to him. She knows the truth but nobody will listen to her.
@@ABC-sc2ip But Paul is the Messiah - as in he is the one that the Bene Gesserats created the prophecy about. This movie destroys everything that Paul is. He is mentat-trained, trained in the Bene Gesserat ways - he is actually more than the Ultimate being - he is something different. His son, Leto, is the one who actually does what he fought against doing.
@@ABC-sc2ip "He shall know your ways as though born to them" We just completely ignoring this part, huh? He knew how to fasten a stillsuit correctly, he knew how to sand walk enough to make a long crossing in the open desert, he knew how to use a sand tent, sand compactor, etc etc. He knew all of these things in the first movie, and he just suddenly is incapable of making a shorter trip than the trip he made after the ornithopter went down?
Go back to reason, ABC 123
Thank you for this. My theory goes like this:
1. Villeneuve didn't read the book or only read a summary one of his mid-20s lackies wrote
2. Villeneuve didn't UNDERSTAND the themes of the book like politics, religion, intrigue, ecology, history...
3. Villeneuve read and understood them, but decided to make a Star Wars film to make it appeal to a wider audience
Perhaps a bit of all 3?
I never read the books. I did not like the films. It looked like a long fashion video with pounding sound. It was not cinematic and engaging enough for three hours.
In my opinion this movie is triumph of form over content. And very poor selection of actors. Through whole movie i'v got a feeling, that characters portraited are just dumb, stoned crackheads with rationality deficit.
The movie was boring and horrible. Dragged out with no substance. Like you said, I could literally walk away for a while and miss nothing.
Read it's transcript. It makes absolutely no sense!!!! It's same with the directors other mother, Bladerunner 2049, nonsensical dialogue filled with massive words, but no meaning or personality.
I feel like why people say they like it, is because they want to appear as smart... "yeah,like I totally understand it" (ergo they must be smart).
First Dune was rubbish. Won't bother with the second.
@@magicbuns4868 Honestly I couldn't get into bladerunner 2049 and Dune 2 was a walk away, come back, walk away, background noise. I have no clue what the 1st one was about, but I will never attempt to watch another. Just utter trash and yet people praise it. Got me.
It looks good but it ain’t good. Just a 3 hour perfume commercial that smelt bad
I like sci-fi movies and really tried with this movie watch the first one twice and couldn’t get into it
@@rafaelmarquez8886then you don’t like science-fiction.
Mary Sue becomes emperor of the universe in less than 8 months.
@@ManSeekingMeaningStfu lol Just coz you like it, doesn’t mean the movie is good
@@ManSeekingMeaningdune is not sci-fi. It’s trash.
I didn’t read the books, and I walked out bewildered and disappointed. I feel the need to read the books to redeem the story for me. Thank you for making me feel sane for not liking either of these films.
And how some scenes make TOTAL sense, like when he randomly asks for another woman’s hand, while being in love with Chani. And the love story with Chani where nothing’s explained, no chemistry just a boring kiss in the middle of the desert.
A boring kiss, what did you want to see her do in the middle of the desert.
LOL. Paul's marriage to Irulan is NOT "random". She's the eldest daughter of the Emperor, which means she's the most eligible woman in the Imperium. She's also Bene Gesserit-trained, and under orders to bear the Imperial heir - orders she's unable to carry out, due to Paul's love for Chani and insistence that only Chani will bear his children in spite of her status as concubine.
Paul married Irulan as the easiest, quickest way to become Emperor. Absolutely nothing about that was random. It was a power move, and love has nothing to do with it. That's how royalty has done things for tens of millennia, and there are ample precedents in real history.
I disagree, Zendaya as Chani is the best part of the movie. I loved it.
Zendaya was miscast as Chani in this movie, and the Chani character itself was butchered by Villanueve.
Just say you don't know shit about Dune rather than saying marrying Irulan was random 💀
Loud fart noises and "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" mystical sining, every fucking 5 minutes really takes the epicness away. Same goes for, when EVERY SINGLE FUCKING SCENE is grand, slowmotion riddled and full of intense closeups, it just loses its wind... REALLY FAST. total garbage movie, for real. Actual legit garbage movie. First one was great, so what gives
lol literally! Every fucking scene with Paul whenever he does anything whether it's walking or sitting down looking dramatically at the horizon the music is full blown EARRAPE 😂
They ruined Chani's character, awful casting and writing all around.
Nah they made her better.
@@Astronautadelvoid smooth brain take doubt you’ve read the books
Also, worst casting decision was Zendaya and Walken. Worse than Chalamet.
100% These so-called actors sure don't seem to be able to act. Florence Pugh isn't that great either. Neither is Anna Taylor-Joy for that matter, this new generation of "actors" need some lessons. Caleb Landry is great.
By an order of magnitude, I'd say. Zendaya's team is very powerful, and uses current times as their advantage. Zendaya is ethnically ambiguous, child star from Disney (thus has followers), fashion icon, her celebrity prowess is not little. There is nothing to be said about her acting chops. Even in Euphoria she gives mildly good part, but is praised to high heavens.
Chalamet actually comes off as a better actor next to her, and quite frankly is, just probably miscast and Villeneuve is not famous for being able to utilize the talent he has had.
I think walken was ok, pugh did a good job in this one but I still think irulan is miscast. Should have been Lea as irulan instead of margot. Maybe even austin butler as paul would have been better. Then the girl that played alia in the vision as chani. If we had to use already existing actors in the movie for the big roles.
What the actual f*ck is this movie?
Why do they call it Dune? It's missing ALL the key moments, turns, background, motivation and characters of the book. I just finished watching it and I'm furious. This was not Dune, it's a stupid dumpsterfire whitout any driving motif (they forgot to mention WHY IS SPICE SO IMPORTANT) or coherence with the source material.
Not even mentioning the bad acting, shit editing, timing, pace.
And FFS Jessica was pregnant for how many years again? Paul and Chani's firstborn? Paul's sister killing the Baron? Chani and Paul being truly in love, never doubling each other?
What the actual f*ck?
And people love it???
Dude the books are not as great as you portray them to be. Yes the movies took a lot of creative Executive decisions to shorten the run time, but the source material is trivial, it rambles, it is filled with plot holes and plot armors, so it's not like the movie bastardizes it
What are you talking about? The characters in the book never knew why spice is so important, we know because its in 3rd person. Only after talking the Water of Life did Paul realise that the Guild Navigators are all deathly addicted to spice.
@@archmaester6594 not exactly. it was revealed to paul and the readers why the spice was so important to the guild and why in the first book the guild is the main force they had to intimidate towards the end by threatening to destroy the spice. the navigators prescients was blocked by a universal "prescient wall" and paul even mentions how they've become helplessly addicted that they couldn't do the simplest things without it, including the BG. in the movie they just threaten the spice without explaining why it is so important or how its used. It is portrayed like "space gasoline", which it isnt.
It's great cinema, and a good adaptation. Yes there's missing parts, but you need a 10 hr miniseries to high all the high points.
They make the entire second half happen in a few months, which is so unrealistic and annoying.
Sweeping but DULL. Give me the Lynch version with it's awesome score. Maybe there has been such a lack of good movies lately, that audiences are more easily impressed....
Bruh I also enjoyed the vibe of the Lynch movie but thats nostalgia talking not u. Problems with pacing, totally butchered characters and source material, he literally didnt get Herberts vision and thought Paul is the real messiah 😂😂😂
Those are the rose-colored glasses talking. The Lynch version was a mess. Miserable effects, rushed, and a terrible ending. It featured more from the book; but more good ingredients doesn’t change the fact it’s a sh-t sandwich.
@@matyasspevacek286 He just wanted Austin Butler in a speedo like Sting because it turns him on.
@@theworld6710
The studio changed the Lynch version. I still like it.
It tells much more than these new movies. Better characters cast, as well.
Definitely the most overrated and overhyped movie of 2024.
And also a complete disrespect of the source material.
The problem is that for some unexplained reason at the end of the movie, Chani is the online remaining person fully opposed to Paul and the position he is in. Why? What makes her so special. She should actually trust him more not less. If she is a rebel, than at least make it believable. Give her backstory or reason to be opposed to Paul. But she simply is because of it.
It's pretty stupid...like wtf she gonna do? Paul is Nietzsche's fucking overman.
It is evident through the movie that Chani distrust Paul from the get go but also something to him that intrigues her that eventually turns in to love, however it is made clear that she hates the fanatic religion types of the Freman, but despite this they pursue the relationship. The message of the Dune is of thinking critical and not following blindly prophets and messianic figure. Paul is not a Hero but a cautionary tale of a false messiahs. Chani in the movie is being used as an opposing view to highlight that what Paul is doing is wrong and the Jihad to follow will kill billions of people including her people and destroy her people for who she has been fighting so hard. In the end Chani gets betrayed and decides, even though she loves Paul she knows that she needs to follow her convictions and be true to herself. Which is depicted in her calling the Sandworm. She is going her own way
@@lukeovermind First, why does she distrusts him more than everyone else in the beginning. The movie never explains what special background makes her think like that but pulls it out of thin air. What motivates her belief? Because its not in the book, it is not a problem there but in the movie, it requires an explanation. Additionally, Paul has not done anything non beneficial to the Freemen yet (and he actually won't do so at all). From the Freemens perspective, he literally is their saviour. If he was cruel or would misuse his powers, the criticism towards him as a ruler would be understandable but that is simply not the case. The books do a much better job and showing his fallacy (especially in the second) book. The ending of the second movie completely subverts this message because out of thin air, Paul decides to start a holy war against the entire universe without any motiviation to do so (except the nonsensical one they made up). In the books, he simply looses control over the Freemen because he cannot control what they want to believe and how they interpret his teachings, which he thought he could manage after drinking the water of life. That is the entire point of the first 2 books of Dune and its completely lost in the movies.
I wanted to love this movie(s) so bad. I've read the first 3 books a few times. I would still love the whole GoT treatment for Dune. Dune is more deserving than GoT in my opinion, and I'm a fan of both worlds, read books from both series.
I want my 6 hours back. I have been ill for a while, and this will sound melodramatic, but I came pretty close to dying, and one thing I tried to put my mind to was, I don't want to die till I watch Dune.
Sounds really dumb to me now, but sometimes you just grasp what you can and focus on anything that gets you through one miserable hour and then the next.
Frank Herbert made me hope for a great Dune. Peter Jackson made me believe a brilliant director who's a devoted fan can work magic. I heard it was 6 hours so I really let myself think that this was going to be amazing.
Undeniably beautifully shot. We knew it would be. Denis Villeneuve , great, I'm in. But. There's no there, there. Empty calories. Just. What the actual fuck?? I'd have been lost without my long devotion to the books, to fan groups with their encyclopedic devotion. How did anyone who hasn't read the books know what the hell was going on? And why would they sit through this?
The actors were just wasted. I expected brilliant acting, and a story line. A plot. What was the point of having all the big name actors in all of these roles for the five minutes we get them? Skarsgard was WASTED. Why did we bother with Christopher Walken? If you cast Christopher freaking Walken, why would you make him narcoleptic? What was the point?
I sat down to an 8 course 🍽️ thinking it was going to be the meal of my life, only to find there were Twinkies and Ho Hos under my silver domes.
Paul as emo boy is SOOOOOO perfect. Chalamet is an elegant looking young man, but I couldn't connect. Chani. Chani 😢 I have no idea if Zendaya is a good actress, because there was ZERO range. Chani = Angry girl. 😒 From the trailer, I was prepared for an indifferent Chani -- which I wasn't thrilled for, BTW. Paul had to have Chani to be an anchor to keep some semblance of humanity. I guess that Emo-Paul was kind of wooden, so humanity, 😕.
I'm always excited for Rebecca Furgesson, and I'm die hard for Florence Pugh. I suffered through "Don't Worry Darling," for Florence, which is dedication. How the hell did we make so many great actors so incredibly dull?
There's no there, there. It was empty and with nothing of the Dune storytelling, so what did I spend five hours watching? We got two families, no mysticism, no. . . I got nothing. 6 hours of nothing. Not even interesting fight scenes. Nothing.
Javier Bardem, Jason Momoa, Charlotte Rampling, 🤔 . . . Thinking back these were the three I most connected with. This is basically 6 hours of Denis Villenueve jerking off. Just so disappointed.
I was surprised at how many people are saying they loved this, more shocked they plan another movie. I need to register my complete and utter DISAPPOINTMENT with the universe. It's unlikely another living soul will read this, but I've just spent my entire night with nothing to show for it, so here it is. Dear universe, I hated Dune. 😤 🤬 💣
I felt like the movie cared about visuals more than the actual plot..
Unfortunately, I think your absolutely correct. There is so much from the book that should have been included. So much substance that we missed out on.
@@joshmcneil1086Then you would’ve called it a boring ass 4 hour film
@@JoeJD10 Uhm, what?
Not sure what logical basis you have for that erroneous conclusion. I would have been much happier had it been true to the books, not changed the story so fundamentally, and included some of the layers of nuance and richness that are inherent in the novel.
@@joshmcneil1086 You can’t fit all of that into a 3 hour film, it’s simply too much.
@@JoeJD10 I never said they should have put 100% of the book's contents in the films.
And there were two films of around 5 hours total. It should have been 3 films in my opinion.
Regardless, there is much more they could have included without adding to the time. Show the lifescycle of the spice and worm, few more examples of prescient vision, show some Guild Navigators, and not change the ending completely.
That's all. It would have been simple to do these things.
"He who controls the toejam controls the universe"
Ok what kind of contrarian nonsense is this
What kind of nonsensical comment is this?
lol Dune isn’t your thing. That’s okay.
This is literally a quote from the book
@@Elden_Cock_Ringthe actual quote is, he who controls the totally real manuscripts Frank left, controls the franchise :)
Who controls the meth production rules the market
There was soooo much from the book that was left out of the movie. The spacing guild, Alia, the real death of the baron, Chani being the daughter of Kynes, the conversation between chani and Jessica about Paul marrying Irulan, Count Fenring being ordered to kill Paul after he defeated Feyd, and the list just goes on.....
So, it had to be condensed. The main story and the themes were intact. Go read the book. It gives all you want. Gives all you are willing to accept. Why even bother with the rest of this?
@donny1960 to give trolls like you something to bitch about. Literally all I did was talk about what got left out of the movie and you have to get offended like all the rest of the snowflakes on here. Good bye 👋
Because some people rather complain that find the good in things. Herbert had to endure the '80 movie. And he did with class. I think he would have loved the new movies. It was made by a fan of his books and it shows. The Spacing Guild was covered. Alia was in part 2 way more than the physical Alia was in the '80 version. The "real" death of the Baron?. He was killed by an Atreides as revenge for their Father. Done in the way of the Gom Jabbar. Mentioned the Baron was his Grandfather and then killed him like an "Animal". Was perfectly done. Shocking and satisfying. Again this movie covered all the bases of the book. And improved on some of the methods. It is being called one of the best movies ever made by a lot of people. It succeeded. Did not ruin anything.
@@donny1960 did you even read the book?? Literally NONE of what you just said was in the movie. Nothing I said in my op was incorrect. If you have a problem with that, then I suggest you go elsewhere, thank you.
@@donny1960 to piss off trolls like you with too much time on your hands. My point was that there was too much either left out or changed. Nothing I said was incorrect.
Factions within the Fremen is fine. The problem with the movie was that it made factions within factions. The tribe was divided amongst themselves rather than between tribes which goes against the books because a divided tribe does not survive.
The movies not being true to the book wouldn't have to be such a big deal, but you had the director himself explicitly claiming this would be the adaptation that is most faithful to the book.
Maybe it's the book that's the problem. It's supposed to be akin to Game of Thrones, everyone cynically jostling for power. In GoT, everyone acts rationally in their own best interests. In Dune, you haven't got a clue what the characters want or what they're aiming for. Absolute turd of a story.
@zootsoot2006 Mmmmm. Not really, man. It's pretty clear when you read the book.
the source material is the problem? What kind of mental gymnastics is this? @@zootsoot2006
I remember the director said this too. Can you find a source on the quote?
If youve seen the other adaptations you understand he is telling the truth. But at any rate, its not about the book as it is STILL an adaptation and a sensory buffet...
Yeah, this movie was visually amazing, but everything else was mediocre at best. I felt no character-based emotion whatsoever.
Well, Not having the skills to receive a message. Does not mean the message was not sent. This movie is a huge success. People are loving every part of it. The Book is one of the most famous and successful in history. And you can't "feel" it..... Sad. For you. Not the material.
What we all have to realize is the truth… That Dune is being heavily pushed and influenced by the Warner Bros. PR and Marketing team. Nearly every reviewer and influencer on social media is saying the same thing verbatim and that right there makes all the so called praise it’s receiving seem awfully suspicious.
This movie is not even on the same steps as The Empire Strikes Back or The Two Towers by any means. Is it visually stunning in terms of technical aspects and cinematography - absolutely! But everything else (like the acting and script) were simply serviceable.
You know how you’re hungry, and you grab a combo from a nice fast food establishment to satisfy your hunger? That’s how I would describe Dune: Part 2. It gets the job done nicely, but it’s by no means the best meal of your life.
Warner Bros. needs a new IP they can market the living daylights out of and Dune fits the bill. Harry Potter is about to be reduced to a streaming series, and James Gunn’s Superman (and DCU as a whole) is still a big gamble. But Dune has become the little engine that could in their eyes.
This is why we got Austin Butler, Lea Seydoux, and Florence Pugh in the sequel (and Timothy Chalamet and Zendaya in the first) as they are the “hot” younger generation stars.
Speaking of Austin Butler, his performance wasn’t anything to write home about nor was it original. He played the same silent, smiling but deadly, stereotypical villain that we’ve seen in the last nearly 30+ years in cinema - from the T-1000, to Anton Chigurh, and Heath Ledger’s Joker, to everyone in between. They made his performance out to be this great menacing presence, but he was a carbon copy of everything we’ve seen before.
This movie was a 6.5 - 7 out of 10 for me (and the 7 is me being generous).
I'd give it a 7. And agree with you.
Dune was a real borefest...it's the first time in a theater I literally dozed off couple of times. I went in excited and determined but alas. It did absolutely nothing for me...neither emotionally nor in a way that the "plot" would engross me 'cause I didn't get a lot of things (do I have to read the books to understand it?) and the ending felt like WTH?! Why did just cut off? What was the point?
Yeah, you need to read the books to understand what happens and the motivations of characters in both these movies
I feel like I'm insane... I thought this movie was an absolute train wreck. I kept checking my phone to see if the reviews were a joke and fake, because I couldn't believe that I just wasn't getting absorbed by the story.... I had trouble following literally everything. I had watched the 1st movie but realized it was so unmemorable that I had forgotten about it, and then was thinking I would be reminded about the 1st movie by them explaining it away, and they did an awful job if that. I felt lost... I felt like I didn't know what the whole point was. I was creeped out by the Harkonens... and the dialogue just seemed nonsensical. The visuals were amazing but also seemed like action just there just for the sake of action. Where tf was the plot?! SO disappointed.
As a movie for the portion of the audience not familiar with the books, the movie was ok. Unfortunately for the rest of us, a big mess. I have probably an unpopular opinion but I believe the Sci-fi miniseries was the most faithful adaptation to date.
Matt here, I am 100% in agreement with you. The sci-fi series is my favorite adaptation!
The reason why people are overreacting to modern Dune is because the last 5 years of Hollywood and entertainment has SUCKED
basically
Dune Part Two: A woke story about Zendaya
My biggest issue is the depiction of the Fremen being divided in two groups (fundamentalists and not). Without doubt, this has been done due to to the time we live in. First I was confused, then I realized this was a (major) jab at religion and at the people who are believers. That was them saying 'Look at those fools, who believe in a prophecy and are praying, how stupid is that'. Not only they made the Fremen look stupid - they turned one of the most respected characters Stilgar into a fool - but they went further and turned them into religious fanatics. That is basically the modern, heavily influenced by mass media, woke perception of (any) religion.
From this they made Jessica into a crazy religious fascist. Instead of accepting being the chosen one, they made Paul reject the idea of being the Messiah over and over again until the very end. And Zendaya, I mean Chani... they butchered her character completely. She does not believe in the prophecy, she does not believe in Paul, she slaps the new leader and Messiah of the Fremen in front of everyone (WTF)...
And it all ends with Chani storming out of the audience chamber after she learns that Paul takes the hand of Princess Irulan... into.. yeah, whereto exactly?
Great visuals, great actors, no substance, recycled soundtrack, major disappointment. Worse than part one.
P.S. It is fair to say, the movie was not made for us, ie for those who are fans of dune. this movie has been made for the wide audience, who never touched the books. That should have been clear from the start. But yeah, it still sucks.
dune was woke when it first came out precisely because its a deconstruction of colonization, religion and centralized power. stilgar is a fool and he realizes that in the third book. the fremen went on to murder billions of people in the name of a holy war, im fine with them being portrayed more fanatic.
Right! I was quite surprised that nobody took notice or cared about how heavily and openly it critized religion, especially Islam
@@o.s.h.i8197 ye but it was like that in the book too
@@921Ether no? No at all
@@Saintmadman ah so i must have dreamed up the fact that the fremen go on to kill billions of people in the name of a holy war
Cool I'm not the only one, the pacing was TERRIBLE it took too long to get some real action & then many times the action was super underwhelming I expected WAYY more action (that's why I love the 1st Dune movie so much)
I am just confused on why this movie is rated so high
I feel like it's a vacuum right now as far as good blockbuster movies. That and the dying theater industry needing people to go. The whole "Barbenheimer" thing last year. Now this tripe. People are just desperate for things to be normal again, for movies to be "incredible", they're inflating the value of anything not overtly woke.
your IQ needs to be above 100 to understand it
@malcador or maybe people really like it?
@@tuff_trooper755 I can understand liking it. Masterpiece? Cultural phenomenon? Movie of the decade? Give me a break.
Bots, shills
I have not read the books but did not love this movie. You guys bring up great points but to me it missed on the emotional level. I didn't feel anything when Paul goes God tier. I don't know how else to explain it but in movies like Inception when they get to the final room and the father says "I was disappointed you tried to be me" it was this awesome cathartic pay off that made the movie. Here I got none of that. It feels like things happen just because they are supposed to. Best I've heard it put is this is like Braveheart without the scene where his family is killed.
His changes to the Fremen culture disrupt the overall themes of the book. The Fremen are supposed to be like Islamic jihadis. The whole point is that Paul, who is a moral person, Is backed into a corner by his visions of the future and the terrible choices he is forced to make. Imagine you are on present day earth, You have visions of what absolutely must be done to save humanity, And the only group of people you have at your disposal to accomplish this are the Taliban. Yes the Fremen are supposed to be admirable in their strength and ferocity, but they are supposed to be depicted as the ultimate example of honor culture and crazy dangerous, but DV is in a bind. If he depicts them as Caucasians, he will get yelled at for that So he hast to make them all varying shades of brown. But then, He can't depict them all as being dangerous fanatics or he'll get yelled at for being an Islamic and a bigot for perpetuating negative brown people stereotypes. And since, all the other female characters, although formidable, are morally questionable, he needed to do something to get female audiences to show up, he decided to make Chani this relatable 21st century character. It's pandering. It's annoying. But if you want a studio to give you a $190 million budget, there is probably no way to avoid diluting the story. Getting an adequate ROI means you need the female vote. And women these days, on average, are way more touchy than they used to be about stuff they see on the screen. But there were also some unnecessary changes that were just plain stupid. No Guild acquiescence to Paul's ascendency and so the heretofore non space-faring Fremen immediately commandeer all the Saudarkar ships to go fight a space battle. What the hell? Why?
Agreed...
Also another problem is the HARKONENS are completely dehumanised to the point they might as well be ORCS..
It's difficult to be invested in Paul's moral conflicts when his "enemies" are generic dehumanised BADDIES.
Yeah the part where all the Freeman who have never been into outer space we're gonna go and fight in outer space was just laughable. But the total removal of three guild navigators destroyed the story. Without the spacing guild you have no idea why the spice matters.
You talk about women being touchy about what they see on screen and you are ranting about Chani actually being a character and having conflict with Paul...
@@PeachesandCream225 I suppose you think I don't want there to be any strong and interesting female characters at all just because I disagree with DVs decision regarding one female character. Is that where we are going? That I must not like independent and dynamic women with strong personalities because it threatens me or something? I know you want to believe that. Whatever.
@@PeachesandCream225 there is no character...and no conflict
Good to find a review that goes against consensus. I'm probably even weirder because I thought the first movie was great and did not like the second one. I did read the first book, but like 20 years ago. For me the first one was a much better planned out movie in terms of scenes and plot, though understandably it was a simpler plot and easier to do. There are too many scenes in this that got boring and didn't add anything, and then so many missed opportunities.
-The Chani relationship just seemed odd and took up too much time. Didn't like her as a character and she was annoying.
-Harkonnens seemed far less ominous than part 1, and acting more like NPC villians. Why did they give Feyd 'honor' in the final fight, should have kept him as a psycho, and given him the poisoned needle or w/e was in the books. I didn't get it.
-Emperor was poorly cast, seemed like a frail old man that should have retired long ago.
- Alot of it felt 'rushed', even though it was a long time. I think many scenes could be cut (nuke scenes seemed odd, too many Paul desert scenes), and others should have been added.
Excellent review mate 👏 I felt the same watching this farce of a movie
Same thing for me.
The first had really strong, consistent worldbuilding and interesting ideas to set up part 2.
The characters were (at least somewhat) relatable and the villains felt menacing.
All of it was subverted in the second part, there were inconsistencies with the first film all over the place.
To name a few:
Spitting is a sign of respect but crying for the dead is a waste of water?
The Fremen are introduced as endogamous and religious people yet Chani can have a romantic relationship with Paul before he even becomes a full member of them?
The Harkonnen are supposed to be cunning and tough yet they almost always fight were the enemy has the advantage and drop like flies as a result of it.
There are many more but those alone undermine central aspects that were set up in the first film and broke my immersion.
People praise it as the new Empire Strikes Back but for me personally it's more like The Last Jedi (grossly exaggerated).
I agree that the first film is much much better, especially as an adaptation. They actually took time to develop things, even though it was still sort of fast. But part 2 was hyper speed through some events that would take years to develop organically. What ever happened to a good ole montage? Haha
They did Stilgar so dirty 😑
Same thing here. I thought the first one was great and I wanted more. It was well-paced, it introduced to this whole new world and gave you enough to go even if you didn't read the books (which I have not), the dialogue flowed, the action scenes were tight, etc. This second instalment... the complete opposite.
First, I felt it was confusing if you did not know the lore. What exactly are the powers of the Bene Gesserit? How does this telepathy/prophecy thing work? It just seems that some kind of magic appears when convenient. Why are these "houses" rivals? It just seems like the Harkonnens are evil for the sake of being evil, which is boring. The Baron is Paul's gradfather... ok, so what? It felt like a bad take on the Darth Vader reveal (and more like the bad Rey-Palpatine reveal!). What is the emperor's political role? All the political intrigue was just so badly done. Even the logistics of it. Where are the Fremen getting all this equipment from? They barely have any water, but seem to have a massive arms manufacturing capacity!! Compare this to Andor, where we delve into how the Rebellion gets its funding.
Second, the dialogue was cheesy. To make yet another Star Wars comparison (yeah, sue me), the Paul/Chadi relationship was more like Anakin/Padme than Han/Leia.
Third, the action scenes were a bore. In two ways. On the one hand, they were badly shot. It was unclear who was shooting at whom and where everything was. Compare this to, say, Mad Max Fury Road. On the other hand - and more importantly - there was never any tension. You never felt the characters were in any danger. The good guys shoot slash or punch better than the bad guys, end of story. The only exception was the first action scene where they actually had a challenge (getting through the shield) and had to resolve it and you felt some tension. After that, those dragon-fly helicopter things were just falling out of the sky like it was the easiest thing to achieve. Then Feyd-Rauhta shows up and the Harkonnens start winning. Why? Because of the power of his will? If they knew where the Fremen lived, did it seriously not occur to anyone to just bomb the whole mountain before Feyd arrived? Seriously?! The tide of the war changed for no particular reason, other than that the screenwriters decided so. Even the final one-on-one duel was a bore. He just pulls out a secret blade he had stashed away somewhere. How convenient! A deus-ex machina of hand-to-hand combat, and I knew it was coming. So predictable, so boring.
@@georgeskanoute3814I think the blade came from his abdomen where Feyd put it a few moments before.
When the only time your channel gets attention is when you hate Dune...
You're here, aren't you?
yeah, i think thats his point@@WorldofHoliday
@@TobyH24564bad takes on purpose lmao
Well they're telling the truth. Second one was horrible
@@el34glo59 beside being different from the books what makes it bad
I’ve never checked the time during a movie at the theatre and I did probably 3 dozen times watching dune 2. It was 3 hours that could be trimmed down to 1 and the plot wouldn’t change. The Zzzzzzm sound effect was used instead of building any actual tension and was used 30 times minimum.
Think about all the subliminals they probably hid inside that Zsssssm sound effect. 😁 "You will like this boring ass movie.. You will proclaim it as a cinematic masterpiece... You will believe it to be the best movie you've ever seen... Even better than Empire Strikes Back." Maybe you're immune ?.. I know I am.
Is something wrong with you? Lol that sound effect kept me glued to my seat
@@Fiveash-Art wow, you sound so contrarian and edgy. Too bad the rest of the world isn't as smart as you.
@@Fiveash-Art lol! Possibly
I’d heard this was one of the highest rated films ever made, i went in with huge expectations. But left disappointed.
I felt that the majority of this film was spectacle for the sake of it, at the expense of character and world building. It felt that decisions characters made came out of nowhere and had no rhyme or reason as to why they were doing what they were doing.
I like the world of it, but it feels like the cliche Hollywood blockbuster moments have been given precedence over story telling. I also think some of the performances were bland.
I don’t think it’s terrible by any means but I wanted so much more from it. And I’ve never even read the books.
Some how... and till the day I die this will never cease to shock me.... but some how, the best part about Dune 2 ended up being that popcorn bucket.
critical damage review jon
😂
True true
I didn't think anyone could get on my nerves more than the cult of Christopher Nolan, but these Denis Villeneuve fanboys are some of the most pretentious kids I've ever had to suffer. They're so disgustingly full of their opinions about 'CINEMA' .. ugh .. I can't stand them and their 'Cinematic Masterpieces' ... The same goofballs who think 'The Batman' was comparable to Kubrick or something. Pure idiocy .. I don't think it's just a generational thing either.. my being too old to 'get it'. I think these kids have just been so completely dumbed down they can't see how hollow these movies actually are. It's like flipping through some high end fashion magazine .. It's all very artsy, very minimal, very large, open and sterile. But really it's just a fashion magazine.. A big beautiful giant house filled with a lot of fancy trinkets and furniture you can't touch.
So true, man. I have the same issue. These Nolan, Villenueve and Reeves fanboys are absolutely the worst. These Gen Z kids are so toxic and pretentious!
@@AshrafAnam Yeah .. I don't know what happened with Matt Reeves because I really liked those Planet of the Apes movies. Hopefully it was just a misstep on his part with that boring ass Batman movie, but I'm pretty sure the next one will be the same crap considering how audiences seemed to freak out over it.
Architectural Digest
@@brendanmohareful Pretty much ... sterile beauty. Like one of those new sex dolls .. A good visual until you look into their cold, dead eyes. Probably would be best to just cover the face with a pillow before enjoying her.
@@AshrafAnam"So toxic and pretentious" you say as you simultaneously invalidate the views of people YOU disagree with because YOU think generational changes in taste and preference are bad. Just be thankful that there are still young people who want to hear Frank's message and take it to heart. I'll defiantly agree that any claim comparing "The Batman" to a Kubrick classic is beyond ridiculous, but I cant help pointing out the obvious irony in your sentiment.
Chani looking Paul in the eyes saying "i'm not doing this gor you, i'm doing this because i'm Fedyken" perfectly exemplifies my frustration with this movie.
"It's been a big day"
Not to mention great lines such as "We are in deep Fremen sh*t"
@@isaacxcii4289 "I would very much like to be equal with you"
@@eddiedead2702I don’t find anything wrong with this line, though. It’s unusual, but it’s fine for him.
@@isaacxcii4289 they are tho
I think this is the worst overrated movie of our Century.
Something a child would say
Learn to write with an actual point
I can't think of a single sci fi movie worse than this one. Everyone saying it's the best Sci fi movie ever and I'm like.... Galaxy Quest was cooler than this dull slop.
@@JohnSmith-wd1oqI dunno, jupiter ascending was definitely worse.
Amen. Terrible piece of trash. I hate how they practically destroyed all the good parts about the books.
Paul’s character is diminished and his character’s decisions are give to other characters in the book. Paul alone decides to take the water of life - why did they take this major decision from him. The emperor is a weak character in the movie. His daughter steals his lines and has to explain to him why he should go to dune.
And so much more is wrong.
If you read the books don’t put yourself through this nonsense.
In the book, Paul took the Water of Life after he failed to foresee that Gurney would try to kill Jessica. In the movie, it's after failing to foresee the attack on Sietch Tabr. That's a positive change.
The Emperor is weak in the book, that's why he was threatened by Leto and had him killed. Also what line did Irulan steal? The Emperor had more to do in the movie than the books.
@@archmaester6594 -
@@archmaester6594 The Emperor in the book still came from a position of power. In the film he was crying that Leto had heart and wobbling around in silence like Joe Biden after 24 hours without handlers. The reason he attacked Leto in the movie isn't really given. In the book it was because he feared Leto's popularity in the Landsraad council as well as between Gurney and Duncan the Atreides army was arguably as good as his Sardaukar. Much of this having to also do with the fact that Duncan is one of 3 sword masters that exist in the universe. So you have a political and military threat. It just made sense.
@@archmaester6594 it was also because during the attack on Sietch Harkonnens killed his and Chani's firstborn son.
The book: Paul's son is killed, he fails to forsee the threat from the person he trust, and understands, that taking the water of life is necessary for them to win.
The movie: Harkonnen attack Sietch (oh no, the enemy has retaliated), his son is replaced with Chani's girlfriend that nobody, including the movie itself, gives a shit about, Paul talks to Jamis Force Ghost (what?), and then decides to go and take the water of life.
How is that nonsense a "positive change"?
Because of "muh strong female characters", that's why. Feminazism. As if the Bene Gesserit wasn't powerful already in the book, lmao. For leftists, there is no such thing as enough power.
too much time wasted on zendaya
And despite hers and Tims screen-time, their relationship managed to feel underdeveloped.
@@ElusivePandaMan I get the impression that they don't get along in real life and it came through on screen.
No dis on her as an actor, but her pseudo rough girl face was grating
Chani brings a lot. she is the voice of reason in midst of infallible faith. Thus why the Fremen are just complacent in fighting Harkonnens (and many other things) waiting for their messiah to come...
She cannot sway the masses as social cohesion is strong with faith and reason is not as stabilising and more under scrutiny than faith
Stilgar shows this when Paul says he is not their Messiah- he states 'the Messiah is so humble he wouldnt even say he is the Messiah.'
faith is the true desert power
Got to meet the DEI quota and make sure everybody knows that you cast a "person of color" as one of the lead roles!
I like the director but he really dropped the ball on Dune. I'll take David Lynch's version any day over this new version.
3:45 It was worse than part 1. I still cared for Leto more than anyone in part 2. I liked the atmosphere much better- there was a sense of intrigue. Overall Part 1 had more care put to it than this one.
The dialogues in Part 2 just sounded like cookie cutter Hollywood lines. Boring characters. No tension. No climax. No emotion. Just things happening without reason. Really bad editing. They were skipping months in between scenes. The Harkonens and Fremans got reduced to jokes. They were all essentially clowns and Paul and his mother were the sole voices of reason.
1 was meh. 2 just straight up sucked.
I think God I’m not the only one who feels this way. I literally walked out of the movie theater and I was not impressed.
i came out of the cinema yesterday after watching dune 2 and was like "wtf was that" everything was so rushed and tried to take after the anakin episode 3 star wars vibe when he turns dark and paul was just doing random stuff for no reason
To be completely fair there is no way to do the books justice unless it is long form multi episodic season. Jamming it all into 5 or 6 hours is tough. You must also remember that the director is known for and speaks openly of visual over dialogue / story. I realize it’s not going to please hard core book fans (of which I’m one of Dune, Messiah, Children of, God Emperor, etc.) but be thankful it’s getting attention and breathing life back into Dune. We may yet get some adaptations down the road that are more narratively driven. Time will tell but I don’t hate the movies I guess the way you guys do - to each his own I just tend to set my expectations down a notch when it comes to movie adaptations. I learned to do this after reading To Kill a Mockingbird and then seeing the movie which absolutely did not do the book justice but was decent at capturing the spirit of the book.
His visuals are dull af. Once you've seen one of his films, you've seen them all.
Dune is a bad movie because if the movie not the books. The fight scenes are not choreographed that well. The big battles do t have enough actions. The sand worms are rarely ever shown and his sister was reduced in part. All of these things simple needed a better director to make possible. The overall story could stay mostly the same and about 15 minute of slow shots could have been cut and 15 minutes of action shot had been added in and you’d have a better movie. Also zendaya cant act. So everytime she had to convey any emotion other than anger if brought the film down.
@@iamrysheemno
@@DundG clearly i disagree.
@@iamrysheem Jep, obviously. So why this unnecessary reply?