I absolutely love the way they did this scene. There’s no heroic, epic or even intense score. It’s somber and quite and frames it in way that shows the true gravity of the situation. I think the argument of whether Joel did “the right thing” is so stupid and overplayed. The whole point is that It’s all ambiguous. Maybe the cure would have worked and maybe not. Maybe the fireflies would have made a more stable society and maybe not, maybe Ellie really is the only immune person and maybe not. We don’t empathize with Joel here because he “was right”, we empathize with him because we would have done the same thing. Did Joel doom humanity? Probably, but we’ll never know. If he did then I can tell you obviously he was 100% wrong. But that’s not the point. I have 3 amazing children and I can say with a certainty that if it’s a choice between the world and any one of my kids, I’ll choose my kids every single time, even at the expense of my soul and doing evil. All that to say if you are still stuck on Joel was right nonsense, you’ve completely missed the point. Like Joel we will do anything for those we love and I think this scene hit all the right notes to display that in a way the game never could.
He didn't do the right thing for humanity but who cares about humanity? Humanity is the one who shot and killed his daughter and now are making him relive that moment. Its one of those "if you could go back in time and do things differently". Now hes given a chance to do things differently. Fuck humanity, hes going to save this girl.
Hey, you did a great job wording this, it’s so eloquently put. Ever since the first game’s release, we have asked the moral question, but the point here (which we will see the exact consequences of in season 2) is exactly as you mentioned. I appreciate your input, have a wonderful day !
Bad take. Putting your children over everyone else's doesn't make you a relatable antihero, it makes you a selfish villain. Your children are no more special than everyone else's, and if you're gonna make everyone else suffer just because you don't wanna lose what's yours, then it's pretty clearly an evil thing to do.
@@mattc6979 hey man thanks for the comment. Although it’s a loaded one indeed. So maybe you misunderstood or didn’t read my comment. I literately never said Joel or anyone else would be an “antihero” for what he did. In fact i explicitly said that in possibly dooming humanity, Joel would have been wrong. Not sure how you missed that. Also, I never said anything about protecting my children over others as the right thing to do. I simply said I would have done the same thing and in fact, I stated that I would be willing to do and be evil if necessary, to protect my kids. I never mentioned anything about it being ethical. In fact I even said it was all ambiguous because we don’t even know if the cure would have worked. Joel is relatable, that’s all. I figured I’d lay it out again for you. Hopefully you read it this time lol.
I have my gripes with the show but everything about the way firefly hospital was adapted was fantastic. I love that this montage makes Joel look like The Terminator. No emotion on his face, just mowin them down.
That's one good thing about TLOU2 is that you see Joel was right. When you play as Abby you see humans killing each other left, right and center. Not to mention how real life is full of sociopaths to the point humans have and are making animals go extinct. Earth is a very evil place. Honestly its sad how there are such few nice people even in reality. On another note TLOU2 was otherwise shit. Sure, gameplay like the killing etc was fun but storyline is terrible. Spoilers ahead: No one felt satisfied with letting Abby live, and this is coming from someone who liked Abby. Honestly they should just never have killed Joel off. Terrible decision. When I found out he died I didn't even want to play the game anymore.
@@315katty Highly agree, I just beat the remake of TLOU today (beat the remastered version like three times already) and gotta say humanity is way too far gone. Especially groups like the hunters and David's group. Sure the infected would get wiped out for the most part but the world would probably turn mad max like but more modern if that makes sense. Humans would just keep increasing and keep in mind they already have food issues. That being said, the way the fireflies handled that whole thing was just terrible. Especially Marlene of all people. Till this day it upsets me that Joel got killed especially the way they did it. The worst part, I gotta watch it all again in season 2 😪.
Wasn't even guaranteed to be a cure. And being immune doesn't mean the current infected can't just rip you apart anyways. Plus they didn't even give Ellie the choice, sure she's said she'd have consented, but it was wrong to not give her the chance to do so.
If I had a nickel for every time Pedro Pascal was a gruff loner that became a father figure to his escort quest and shot up a place to save his kid from life ending surgery, I'll have 2 nickels. I know it isn't much but it's strange that it happen twice. Joel actions are justified because he's protecting a child more precious than Grogu, Hilda.
I don’t like how people in the comments are saying that this scene makes him a badass. It clearly doesn’t. This scene is intended to make Joel look like a ruthless monster. They humanized the shit out of those guards when they showed close ups of their bodies.
Yeah it shows that Joel is capable of doing what Ellie does in Part 2, but has no emotional association with the murder (hence, he shows basically no PTSD in the sequel)
@ishanstuff well I’m the end I the second game dives into fallout of Joel’s decision to save Ellie. I don’t disagree with Joel’s actions. It’s not right. However it’s the same almost any father would make. The second game dives into the perspective of being a victim of Joel’s actions. But hell yeah Joel is badass in this scene.
I feel like the whole last of us tv series could have been a little bit longer. The end was depicted pretty well, but the journey of him leading up to meeting the fireflies was pretty abrupt. The whole meaning of this scene wasn't to capture Joel's murder spree or badassery as some people have commented, nor did it capture the good of the fireflies. It simply captured his humanity from what he experienced. Joel lost her daughter to PEOPLE, he couldnt lose another.
I would do this for my little sister. I would never trust the Fireflies to do the right thing with a cure even if they were competent to make it to begin with.
Fuck that dumb girl i hate that game with a burning passion. Not even the fact that she killed joel but at the end of the game i dont even get to kill that mf is so bullshit
All this scene showed us is what a father is willing to do for his daughter. No she was not his actual daughter but he was taking care of her and a man’s instinct is to protect!!!!!!!
The Fireflies are actually even more evil in the show version; Ellie is conscious when she meets the Fireflies and she chats with Marlene. So they lied to her, drugged her (somehow) then went about murdering her without offering her a choice. Unlike in the game, with her being out from the start, there is at least a vague pretence of there being some reasoning for Marlene to agree to the emergency surgery. If anything, I find it easier to support Joel in the show's events than in the game. The Fireflies come across like a murderous, brainwashed, inhumane, unethical cult here. Who'd even want these guys controlling the cure? Even if there was more than a 0.1% chance of it even being possible.
It really was. I know lots of people hate on the Bill and Riley episodes but in my opinion they were both utterly superb. However... They did take up 2 episodes out of 9. We had to get from the start to end in 7 episodes.... It was doomed to failure from the inception. Not to say it wasn't a good adaptation, it was decent but they never would have got past decent with only 7 episodes to work with.
Game still is superior. I mean nowadays (and it'll be even more that with Part 2) games can be so realistic (especially this TLOU) you don't really need a TV show to begin with. TV can't reproduce the feelings you have as the camera is following Joel closely throughout these corridors to go save Ellie. The close frames are here to add up to tension in the game ; you don't see how many foes are coming, everything feels blurry, you see flashes of light and dark, and when you finally get Ellie, it's one straight emotional run and more tense than if you had clickers on your tail. You can't see anything else but Joel, and Ellie. It's a very claustrophobic framing and it adds so much tension compared to the TV show. Part II in game is untouchable. Chapters like Hillcrest, The Descent, Ground Zero... No medium other than game can bring that level of tension when a player is both active and spectator, and Naughty Dog are masters at weaving the two seamlessly. Every little detail means something and I felt the series was just too... light compared to the weight of the games.
I feel like that’s mostly subjective, and counterpoint: no medium adaptation is rarely perfect. But in cases like this, it comes damn near close. I think there’s merit in that, where so many fail
The whole premise of the second game is based on Joel doing this in the first. Kneecapping. Yeah, sorry, it's a thing. In fact, that's the first thing that happens to Joel in the second game. They put a tourniquet on his leg. Because the writer behind the massive multi-million dollar production sucks, it means a ton of talent goes into a flawed story.
sry is a fact...we man are born with a protecting instinct. for our mothers we would do alot awful things. BUT I KNOW MY MOTHER WOULD NOT LIKE THAT SCENE LIKE MOST LADIES DONT....just accetp as man the guilt to live with doing nothing is maybe like a mother to loose her child ...and live with the guilt not to protect the kid
Abby's dad would have likely lived if he didn't pull a scalpel on Joel. The people who side with Aby just don't get it. First, even with modern medical science and high tech facilities, creating an approved fungal vaccine has proven to be elusive. Ellie would have died. No good would have come from it. Anything other than this outcome is highly unlikely. Aby sealed her dad's fate when you told him to kill Ellie. Yes, that is essentially what she conveyed. Even one of those who knew her best, Mel, said she was a piece of sh!t and has always been a piece of sh!t". Now, I get her feeling the need for revenge, but her thoughts and actions caused the deaths of countless others, even those who claimed to be her friends. I actually didn't feel too sorry for all her WLF friends dying since they were homicidal assho|es. Isaac in particular had to be put down. The fact that they didn't even divulge the actual risk to Ellie says a lot about the Firefly's ethics. Ellie was young and stupid, so she probably would have agreed to it. Less likely if they would have been honest and told her that the results were 1 in a million that any thing like a cure could result from her sacrifice. BTW... why not start with biopsies and bloodwork? Idiots.
So... he killed all the people who were trying to save the human race to save one annoying little girl? I'll confess I haven't watched the show, but what I've seen of Ellie doesn't pull my heartstrings any.
He loved Ellie more than he loved the idea of saving a world that he honestly believed was already unsavable. It's designed to be divisive. There's other underlying things too like the fact he had a daughter who died during the outbreak and he blames himself for not being able to save her. Ellie is for all intents and purposes his adopted daughter.
@@CoffeeFiend1 I guess. I suppose I'm just more of a Big Picture person than a "save one at everyone else's expense" type. Not actually taking sides - I just know which one I'm on.
I guess you stopped playing once Abby's story kicsk in, otherwise you could not write it............lets say without much spoilers...........many things are vice versa to what you think in the beginning
Forcing the player to advocate for Abby by playing as her was the whole point. I ran Abby into clickers 20 times before I moved on with the story. It was audience/player subversion at it's finest.
@@shikamarunara295 prevented a surgery that involves tampering with her brain, with the sacrce tools of a little revolutionary group. She wasnt living that surgery mate.
In my opinion I think this show was a waste of money to make, I've seen so many clips from the show and so many are pretty much the same thing what happens in the game, I don't even see a point watching the show it's the same script as the game. Am I wrong, who enjoyed the show and did you think it was worth it. Also who'd played TLOU2 and how is it compared to the 1st
That's exactly what every show or film should do. Be like the game. I hate it when movies do some invented stories nothing like the game. Uncharted as an example was garbage. From story to actors. It's an OK adventure film but it's not Uncharted...
Jesus fucking Christ. I see people complaining that it changed too much from the game and now there's people complaining that it's too similar ? You gamers are never happy. Also, if you watched the show, you'd know that it makes a lot of major changes.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I absolutely love the way they did this scene. There’s no heroic, epic or even intense score. It’s somber and quite and frames it in way that shows the true gravity of the situation. I think the argument of whether Joel did “the right thing” is so stupid and overplayed. The whole point is that It’s all ambiguous. Maybe the cure would have worked and maybe not. Maybe the fireflies would have made a more stable society and maybe not, maybe Ellie really is the only immune person and maybe not. We don’t empathize with Joel here because he “was right”, we empathize with him because we would have done the same thing. Did Joel doom humanity? Probably, but we’ll never know. If he did then I can tell you obviously he was 100% wrong. But that’s not the point. I have 3 amazing children and I can say with a certainty that if it’s a choice between the world and any one of my kids, I’ll choose my kids every single time, even at the expense of my soul and doing evil. All that to say if you are still stuck on Joel was right nonsense, you’ve completely missed the point. Like Joel we will do anything for those we love and I think this scene hit all the right notes to display that in a way the game never could.
He didn't do the right thing for humanity but who cares about humanity? Humanity is the one who shot and killed his daughter and now are making him relive that moment. Its one of those "if you could go back in time and do things differently". Now hes given a chance to do things differently. Fuck humanity, hes going to save this girl.
Hey, you did a great job wording this, it’s so eloquently put. Ever since the first game’s release, we have asked the moral question, but the point here (which we will see the exact consequences of in season 2) is exactly as you mentioned. I appreciate your input, have a wonderful day !
@@n.kittleson hey thanks brother you too!
Bad take. Putting your children over everyone else's doesn't make you a relatable antihero, it makes you a selfish villain. Your children are no more special than everyone else's, and if you're gonna make everyone else suffer just because you don't wanna lose what's yours, then it's pretty clearly an evil thing to do.
@@mattc6979 hey man thanks for the comment. Although it’s a loaded one indeed. So maybe you misunderstood or didn’t read my comment. I literately never said Joel or anyone else would be an “antihero” for what he did. In fact i explicitly said that in possibly dooming humanity, Joel would have been wrong. Not sure how you missed that. Also, I never said anything about protecting my children over others as the right thing to do. I simply said I would have done the same thing and in fact, I stated that I would be willing to do and be evil if necessary, to protect my kids. I never mentioned anything about it being ethical. In fact I even said it was all ambiguous because we don’t even know if the cure would have worked. Joel is relatable, that’s all. I figured I’d lay it out again for you. Hopefully you read it this time lol.
I have my gripes with the show but everything about the way firefly hospital was adapted was fantastic. I love that this montage makes Joel look like The Terminator. No emotion on his face, just mowin them down.
I'm with Joel.
At this point humanity is beyond saving, even with a cure.
Its called emotions and thats why you will lost us all if you would be ever in position of power.
That's one good thing about TLOU2 is that you see Joel was right. When you play as Abby you see humans killing each other left, right and center. Not to mention how real life is full of sociopaths to the point humans have and are making animals go extinct. Earth is a very evil place. Honestly its sad how there are such few nice people even in reality.
On another note TLOU2 was otherwise shit. Sure, gameplay like the killing etc was fun but storyline is terrible. Spoilers ahead:
No one felt satisfied with letting Abby live, and this is coming from someone who liked Abby. Honestly they should just never have killed Joel off. Terrible decision. When I found out he died I didn't even want to play the game anymore.
@@315katty Highly agree, I just beat the remake of TLOU today (beat the remastered version like three times already) and gotta say humanity is way too far gone. Especially groups like the hunters and David's group. Sure the infected would get wiped out for the most part but the world would probably turn mad max like but more modern if that makes sense. Humans would just keep increasing and keep in mind they already have food issues. That being said, the way the fireflies handled that whole thing was just terrible. Especially Marlene of all people. Till this day it upsets me that Joel got killed especially the way they did it. The worst part, I gotta watch it all again in season 2 😪.
Wasn't even guaranteed to be a cure. And being immune doesn't mean the current infected can't just rip you apart anyways. Plus they didn't even give Ellie the choice, sure she's said she'd have consented, but it was wrong to not give her the chance to do so.
@@315kattyawful take
If I had a nickel for every time Pedro Pascal was a gruff loner that became a father figure to his escort quest and shot up a place to save his kid from life ending surgery, I'll have 2 nickels. I know it isn't much but it's strange that it happen twice. Joel actions are justified because he's protecting a child more precious than Grogu, Hilda.
I don’t like how people in the comments are saying that this scene makes him a badass. It clearly doesn’t. This scene is intended to make Joel look like a ruthless monster. They humanized the shit out of those guards when they showed close ups of their bodies.
Yeah it shows that Joel is capable of doing what Ellie does in Part 2, but has no emotional association with the murder (hence, he shows basically no PTSD in the sequel)
Not to mention the choice to have him shoot a guy who was surrendering without hesitation
@@harrdeeharr in absence of "prisoners management" personnel.. unfortunately a surrendering prisoner is a "liability" .
idiot
@ishanstuff well I’m the end I the second game dives into fallout of Joel’s decision to save Ellie. I don’t disagree with Joel’s actions. It’s not right. However it’s the same almost any father would make. The second game dives into the perspective of being a victim of Joel’s actions. But hell yeah Joel is badass in this scene.
This is not how i remember it from the game.. i clearly remember Abby's dad being torched alive by Joel's flamethrower, followed by the nurses.
I feel like the whole last of us tv series could have been a little bit longer. The end was depicted pretty well, but the journey of him leading up to meeting the fireflies was pretty abrupt. The whole meaning of this scene wasn't to capture Joel's murder spree or badassery as some people have commented, nor did it capture the good of the fireflies. It simply captured his humanity from what he experienced. Joel lost her daughter to PEOPLE, he couldnt lose another.
Amazing scene
This whole show is amazing
It’s too short but yea this scene somehow is cool to me
I don't blame joel.
I would do this for my little sister. I would never trust the Fireflies to do the right thing with a cure even if they were competent to make it to begin with.
Can we agree that season that one of this show is better than multiple seasons of the walking dead
when Joel's badassery kicks in
Joel’s biggest mistake is not killing those 2 other people in the surgery room…
Actually in the game you can do so but it won't make a difference.
i did it in the game it was pretty satisfying🤣
I would have done the same.
3:27 Joel just signed his death own warrant and doesn't know it yet
Doctor reached for a weapon like a moron.
Fuck that dumb girl i hate that game with a burning passion. Not even the fact that she killed joel but at the end of the game i dont even get to kill that mf is so bullshit
Screw him and Hulk Hogan too
This scene is the equivalent to soccer mom adrenaline
This scene was way better in the game, he literally turns into john wick for 5 minutes in the show.
That’s bcuz it’s a scene in a show not a game
Joel turning into John Wick was the best part of this show.
All this scene showed us is what a father is willing to do for his daughter. No she was not his actual daughter but he was taking care of her and a man’s instinct is to protect!!!!!!!
save a girl, abandon humanity to its fate.. bravo joel!
Even with a cure, there would be no going back living in that world..
Welp oh well
@@jakubjanda798says who lmao these are all theory’s. You’d be surprised how many conflicts in history have been put aside for a greater good.
The Fireflies are actually even more evil in the show version; Ellie is conscious when she meets the Fireflies and she chats with Marlene. So they lied to her, drugged her (somehow) then went about murdering her without offering her a choice. Unlike in the game, with her being out from the start, there is at least a vague pretence of there being some reasoning for Marlene to agree to the emergency surgery.
If anything, I find it easier to support Joel in the show's events than in the game. The Fireflies come across like a murderous, brainwashed, inhumane, unethical cult here. Who'd even want these guys controlling the cure? Even if there was more than a 0.1% chance of it even being possible.
0.37, hunter face initiated.
this was a hard level in the game
When the Doom soundtrack kicks in.
Then what happened
that moment sealed Joels fate
Joel: Im old, blind and deaf Tommy i cant do this im really useful
Also Joel fucking butcher the fireflies like nothing xd
the whole season was way too rushed
It really was. I know lots of people hate on the Bill and Riley episodes but in my opinion they were both utterly superb. However... They did take up 2 episodes out of 9. We had to get from the start to end in 7 episodes.... It was doomed to failure from the inception. Not to say it wasn't a good adaptation, it was decent but they never would have got past decent with only 7 episodes to work with.
yeah i'm with him on this one
The Fireflies got what they deserved. Save the world so slavers and cannibals have more meat?
Clueless take
Game still is superior. I mean nowadays (and it'll be even more that with Part 2) games can be so realistic (especially this TLOU) you don't really need a TV show to begin with. TV can't reproduce the feelings you have as the camera is following Joel closely throughout these corridors to go save Ellie. The close frames are here to add up to tension in the game ; you don't see how many foes are coming, everything feels blurry, you see flashes of light and dark, and when you finally get Ellie, it's one straight emotional run and more tense than if you had clickers on your tail. You can't see anything else but Joel, and Ellie. It's a very claustrophobic framing and it adds so much tension compared to the TV show.
Part II in game is untouchable. Chapters like Hillcrest, The Descent, Ground Zero... No medium other than game can bring that level of tension when a player is both active and spectator, and Naughty Dog are masters at weaving the two seamlessly. Every little detail means something and I felt the series was just too... light compared to the weight of the games.
I feel like that’s mostly subjective, and counterpoint: no medium adaptation is rarely perfect. But in cases like this, it comes damn near close. I think there’s merit in that, where so many fail
The whole premise of the second game is based on Joel doing this in the first.
Kneecapping. Yeah, sorry, it's a thing.
In fact, that's the first thing that happens to Joel in the second game. They put a tourniquet on his leg.
Because the writer behind the massive multi-million dollar production sucks, it means a ton of talent goes into a flawed story.
sry is a fact...we man are born with a protecting instinct. for our mothers we would do alot awful things. BUT I KNOW MY MOTHER WOULD NOT LIKE THAT SCENE LIKE MOST LADIES DONT....just accetp as man the guilt to live with doing nothing is maybe like a mother to loose her child ...and live with the guilt not to protect the kid
The game was 10x more cooler
Also 10x more unrealistic, you can’t make a TV adaptation of Joel killing 300 men bro 😂
Abby's dad would have likely lived if he didn't pull a scalpel on Joel. The people who side with Aby just don't get it. First, even with modern medical science and high tech facilities, creating an approved fungal vaccine has proven to be elusive. Ellie would have died. No good would have come from it. Anything other than this outcome is highly unlikely. Aby sealed her dad's fate when you told him to kill Ellie. Yes, that is essentially what she conveyed. Even one of those who knew her best, Mel, said she was a piece of sh!t and has always been a piece of sh!t". Now, I get her feeling the need for revenge, but her thoughts and actions caused the deaths of countless others, even those who claimed to be her friends. I actually didn't feel too sorry for all her WLF friends dying since they were homicidal assho|es. Isaac in particular had to be put down. The fact that they didn't even divulge the actual risk to Ellie says a lot about the Firefly's ethics. Ellie was young and stupid, so she probably would have agreed to it. Less likely if they would have been honest and told her that the results were 1 in a million that any thing like a cure could result from her sacrifice. BTW... why not start with biopsies and bloodwork? Idiots.
Man this make it so much less graceful than in the game, you really feel like he’s a horrible dirt bag 😂
@@butcher6041 They're making sure you can digest season 2. Justifying Abby's role
@@butcher6041 I'm fully with Joel btw.
So... he killed all the people who were trying to save the human race to save one annoying little girl? I'll confess I haven't watched the show, but what I've seen of Ellie doesn't pull my heartstrings any.
He loved Ellie more than he loved the idea of saving a world that he honestly believed was already unsavable. It's designed to be divisive. There's other underlying things too like the fact he had a daughter who died during the outbreak and he blames himself for not being able to save her. Ellie is for all intents and purposes his adopted daughter.
@@CoffeeFiend1 I guess. I suppose I'm just more of a Big Picture person than a "save one at everyone else's expense" type. Not actually taking sides - I just know which one I'm on.
So hot the first line 😈😈
The 2nd game just made no sense for them to try and force us to see Abby POV. She means nothing to us. 🤦🏽♂️
Abby's reason for revenge is justified. You've clearly missed that important point.
I guess you stopped playing once Abby's story kicsk in, otherwise you could not write it............lets say without much spoilers...........many things are vice versa to what you think in the beginning
If she was introduced and followed throughly in the first game, she would certainly mean A LOT to the audience.
You just don’t understand the point then.
Forcing the player to advocate for Abby by playing as her was the whole point. I ran Abby into clickers 20 times before I moved on with the story. It was audience/player subversion at it's finest.
I feel that “Saves” is a subjective term.
no he does save her
@@shikamarunara295 prevented a surgery that involves tampering with her brain, with the sacrce tools of a little revolutionary group. She wasnt living that surgery mate.
In my opinion I think this show was a waste of money to make, I've seen so many clips from the show and so many are pretty much the same thing what happens in the game, I don't even see a point watching the show it's the same script as the game. Am I wrong, who enjoyed the show and did you think it was worth it. Also who'd played TLOU2 and how is it compared to the 1st
That's exactly what every show or film should do. Be like the game.
I hate it when movies do some invented stories nothing like the game.
Uncharted as an example was garbage. From story to actors. It's an OK adventure film but it's not Uncharted...
It’s a pretty good show. There’s plenty of similarities, but plenty of differences too. I enjoyed it.
I’ve never actually played the games I would rather watch the shows but I’ve always been interested in the games I just cba to go through the story.
Not everyone plays video games. Such a closed minded opinion.
Jesus fucking Christ. I see people complaining that it changed too much from the game and now there's people complaining that it's too similar ? You gamers are never happy. Also, if you watched the show, you'd know that it makes a lot of major changes.
Stupid show
Then don't watch it? Or do you have nothing better to do?
the death man moves the rifle