Today I found out that food I see as quintessentially American is actually German such as the pretzel and hamburger which upon retrospect should have been obvious. I apologize to the German delegation I wasn't aware of your game
@@Antwannnn most original American food comes from black folks from the south. A big part of that is they had to make do with the scraps they were given/able to get during slavery. The only American white food I can think of are those nasty ass casseroles and gross jello molds with random food from the 60's.
The Beastie Boys actually started out as a hardcore punk band. Punk and hip hop were tight friends in NYC into at least the mid 80s, and still are in certain circles. And they weren't a frat boy band, but that album was full of songs parodying frat boy culture. They rarely played those songs live because so many people misunderstood them. It wasn't until meeting Rubin that they kind of abandoned their hardcore background and focused purely on hip hop, by which point they were entirely different people than those who put the parody album together in their bedrooms. I'm just listening along, but everyone in my part of the country knew who they were from day one. It'll probably be the only thing I'll be able to contribute in these comments, so there it is.
Every time i hear about "gen z discovering eminem and cancelling him" it blows me... bro we are working adults now ive never met a single person my age who doesnt know who em is and what hes about. Maybe youre talking about those alpha kids
gen alpha is like, 12 and under. no gen z is trying to cancel eminem at this point, he's a little...i mean he's not at the top of his game anymore. he got more backlash back when he first started and he and his fans are just holding onto because what is eminem if not controversial.
It's crazy to me that, living in spain my whole life, I was taught in school about picasso, and not ONCE did anyone ever mention him being influenced by african art. This video is literally the place I learned that.
Because that's not how it went. Picasso had a short African phase where he painted some stuff based on some African masks he used to collect (one of them very famous, the ladies of avignon), but that's it, the rest of his career and the whole movement of cubism has nothing to do with it. Its like saying J.K Rowling owes her success to Agatha Christie because at some point she wrote crime novels.
@@hipiticlivi7400nope. You are very wrong about that. If you actually go through Picasso's discography you'll know that early on he was a pretty normal painter. The first few years he made romantic style oil painting with a little bit of post-impressionism also known as his blue period. And note that this was when post-impressionism was at its peak popularity so none of what he was doing until then was that special. But in 1907 he started experimenting a lot with African traditional mask-like paintings from which he started abstracting (while still retaining the mask-like appearance) for years and then all of a sudden "coincidentally" he started doing exercises in abstract art and what would you know he is suddenly famous. Like his cubist career can be seen separate from the rest of his career but the influence is very real. Even some of his later works like 'girl before a mirror' and 'portrait of Dora Maar' had clear influence from the aforementioned. Moreover he was shot into stardom because of his works around 1907 (which had clear African cultural influence). In short it wouldn't have hurt him to acknowledge that. Also Picasso is a misgynistic dick. So there's that.
No ones trying to cancel Eminem, I don't know where millenials and gen X got this idea that gen Z didn't grow up on Eminem also. People make fun of his recent stuff being trash but that's about it
I wish I wasn't surrounded by the folk that are trying to cancel Eminem. I haven't heard about it for a while but like 2-3 years ago it was a big thing in one of my more liberal friend groups because he was "homophobic and misogynistic"
@@keoniramo7099they’re not trying to take anything from Em. His whole thing is ‘I’m not a good person.’ Recognizing he’s a jackass isn’t the same as trying to cancel him.
I’m gonna ruin the joke by asking someone to explain this to me. Is this meant to say that FD is acting as an Eminem-like figure for hip hop cultural analysis? Like repackaging it for a specifically white audience- though this time without the white privilege factoring in. I can tell this joke has a point I just wanna be sure I understand it.
@@tikki2340 I mean even though Em is the most commercially successful rapper, you act like he's the only one who translated rap to a white audience. The likes 50 cent, Lil Wayne, Kendrick Lamar, DMX also played a role in delivering Rao to white people.
Eminem says it himself, plain as day: “Though I’m not the first king of controversy, I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley, to do black music so selfishly, and use it to get myself wealthy. (Hey!) There's a concept that works, twenty million other white rappers emerge.”
i became aware of the idea of the “white rapper” when i showed my very white, fox news watching dad the rap i was listening to, and he said that eminem is the only rapper he respects
I'm thinking about Em’s acceptance speech at the 2003 Grammys where he named people like Masta Ace and KRS One as his influences which is probably the first and only time those artists have been so much as mentioned at the Grammys.
Yes! As KRS said in MCs Act Like They Don't Know "if you don't know me by now I doubt you'll ever know me. I never won a grammy, I won't win a Tony". Great line! :)
@@df1phantom Not enough. This dude gets called, "The greatest rapper of all time". Eminem made rap FEEL safer for suburban audiences. That's his accomplishment, and nothing else. He certainly is not the greatest rapper ever. He isn't even in the top 50 for me... But I'm not from the right part of American culture so my opinions don't mean as much!😜
@KingKoopa1 I mean but his accomplishments are based on consumer. If our people from the og culture supported like they were supposed to it wouldn't be like that, because buying that album for 13 bucks wasn't a stretch. Even as a young teen I bought the albums of artists I supported
Bro… Gen Z is NOT cancelling Eminem! Thats a fake fight that Gen X/Millenials keep starting out of nowhere to be “antiwoke” and to call gen z snowflakes.. But we do NOT give a fuck 😭😭
it all started because some girl said she didnt vibe with the new eminem album, but for some reason a bunch of gen x/millenial took that as a personal attack, and they've been yapping about it for a while. To me it seems like a bunch of people having a midlife crisis.
The Vanilla Ice section made me think about Iggy Azalea’s career. She seemed poised to be this big thing and her career never really went anywhere after her initial success. I also remember there was a lot of discourse at the time about her whiteness and the level of attention she received.
She was pushed really hard to be a token as a white female rapper by the labels/industry in those early-mid 2010's. But the put on accent and the videos suggesting she lacked talent went viral. And when it came down to it, she really didn't have much of anything to say in her popular songs. Even though tons of other people didn't either, it felt worse with her because she was being pushed so hard on the media as like this great rapper when she was more realistically below average.
@@arkoarko9559 well, it’s not like it’s early 2000 when he was just saying controversial things so people would react, so he could get more attention on himself. At this point, he says offensive things, but he’s so famous so nobody cares.
@@Buis25 yeah that’s true. It’s hard to cancel someone who has been in the business for so long. And people are no longer intimidated by him. at least not to the extent, they were back in the early 2000s.
Mac was mentioned in the Control verse for a reason. He’s respected in hip hop cuz he kept true to it and put out quality music when the bullshit started taking over.
Yeah, I think FD just was out of the era and isn't aware of what Mac's overall influence is. Imo where FD falls short in this is that he's focused only on Mac Miller (and white artists in general) as a solo artist when his artistry encompasses more than his own discography. Mac put on TDE, Rhapsody, Odd Future, Vince Staples, (and probably more if you listen to interviews) etc in a way that no one else was. This isn't to credit him with their success, but he could have stayed in the G-Eazy/Lil Dicky lane and probably made more money, but chose to branch out and give back to hip hop in a way that many artists don't. That's why he's celebrated by rap fans the way he is unlike most others are. He used his whiteness as a platform to more successfully elevate black artists in a way that no white rapper has done before or since (again not to take away from their greatness, but listen to the TDE boys and Vince talk about Mac and it's clear as day that he saw their potential before most others did)
Mac was a different type of hip hop artist, I found his creation of beats (like Tyler) just cemented him as a true creator, along with how his later tracks. he didn't use the genre to act out but to present his internal struggles but in a respectful way. If that makes sense.
I think most Hip-Hop fans would agree Mac deserves a lot of respect but the quality of his music doesn't completely explain the amount of recognition he received. If it did, Smino, Earl, and Noname would be just as famous.
First book I read as a kid that really stuck with me was about Hampton and the Panthers. I was 13 maybe 14 and it lead me to reading the Autobiography of Malcom X. Which led me to more books about the civil rights, race in America, and the education there made me further understand that solidarity was the best thing I could offer my black friends. I can't understand what it is to be them. The same is true in reverse. But we can learn about one another, speak to one another with respect and understanding and love one another.
His critique of Mac Miller is spot on; the only point I think is missing is how well Mac describes and discusses his battle with depression and suicidal ideation. IMO that is the main reason so many people find him unique and exceptional.
Yo he couldn’t be any more wrong😂. One thing is that he’s wrong cuz most ppl would say that 4 Your Eyez Only is one of Cole’s best. Second Mac just makes rlly great music regardless of his skin color if he were black he would be known as a rlly good artist and if anything if he were black he would probably get more credit for being as diverse as he was. His point is disingenuous and FD has to admit he’s just out of touch talking about him😂
I totally had to pause this with Vanilla Ice being interviewed by Arsenio Hall. As a makeup person, Ice had some of the best contoured makeup I've seen.
I was so scared you were gonna go the whole video and not talk about Mac Miller. He was such a gem. He (like em) never had to try to push his way into black spaces/ rap cause he was genuinely authentic. Genuinely appreciated old school rap, and was always himself. Always. I miss him so much
His death hit Pittsburgh like a fucking meteor. His posthumous album was so beautifully done and it’s one of my favorite albums of all time to this day, but I have to be careful when I listen to it because it can make me tear up.
@@guyanomaly I don't feel like his death hit Pittsburgh nearly as much as it should've and he never got the level of love he should've. There's way too many people in pgh who define hip hop strictly as gangster rap & top 40 shit who have never paid attention to the type of music Mac made. And I've never in my life seen a city w so many white dudes running around listening to gangster shit and trying to portray their skewed stereotypes with no understanding at all of hip hop culture or the cultures of poc
I come from the Hardcore (punk) and Metal scene. It's really interesting to me that you're saying rap is starting to die and everything is becoming rock, because we been saying the exact opposite and say rap is where it's at while rock is dying and stuck in the early 2000s and before.
I personally feel like rap is still at the forefront of music but people are getting tired of it and returning to older music as well as applying rock and other influences to rap, I listen to a lot of rap and the genre feels like it’s innovating and growing towards other genres way more than it was just a few years ago
I think Ice Spice is the harbinger of doom for rap. All hype, no substance. She's one of the biggest names in Rap right now & doesn't even have her own album. Total industry plant
Sounds weird as hell but it just makes sense you're a dad- there's such a paternal energy from you. I really feel like I'm in the car with my dad listening to him talking about the good old days with this wise aura to it while I'm just in the passenger seat nodding along trying to soak it all in even when I don't understand it all the way
Lol thats how I felt with my dad when he played old jazz and mo town records in the Early 2000’s as a kid, made me do research and appreciate the art overall and I’m forever grateful for it.
@@Newbie_neilin a world full of people mumbling and mostly rapping about women drugs and sex only, be grateful for kendrick. not only does he write his songs he's a lyrical genius. and all his beats are out of the usual (for example Wesley's theory and untitled 03) you can't be shocked people like him, even if you don't like his songs 🤷
Eminem has been solid with the culture for decades, never spoke out against black people, stood for black causes, put on black artists exclusively, was put on by black artists honestly the fact that so many black people hate on him still annoys me, a lot of YT dudes are vultures no doubt but Em nah he stands on business
I REALLY enjoyed him calling every one of his influences out when he was inducted into the Rock Hall. It really showed where his allegiances are, and as someone who knew like, most of them... those were some heavy names.
He litearly made a diss track on black women. I'm not an anti Eminem gal, he's okay I generally like him. But he's not really this pillar of the community yall people think imo. Like he litearly gets points for doing the bare minimum because he's a white rapper, while black rappers have to go above and beyond or they face criticism
Yeah he spent a lot of effort trying to erase a racist song he wrote about black women He also profits from the culture without giving back to the vulnerable members of the community Like, he has great PR, but the evidence is damning
Preface: I'm latino. I think Eminem's popularity also comes from him rapping about things relatable to everyone. Poverty, broken home, addiction, clawing your way to the top, etc.
Thats a good point, but if those topics are relatable, then many black rappers would have reached Eminem levels of international popularity yearsssss before Eminem, but they weren’t. That’s been what black rappers have been rapping about since the beginning of the genre, no one had more to say about all of these exact topics than black rappers that came up in the crack epidemic. So, if they’re talking about the same things, the same pain, same suffering, the same dreams of clawing their way out into a better life, what’s the difference between Eminem and the hundreds of extremely skilled & talented black rappers that came before? I’ll save you some time, *he’s white* lol and we all know that historically in this country (although this seems to thankfully be slowly changing), black voices are treaded as so unimportant that we could be screaming “🗣️THERES A FIRE” in a crowded building and it won’t be until a white person confirms that they too have seen the fire that people stop looking at the us like we’re crazy & finally start to run out. Therein lies the paradox of Eminem cause that’s not his fault, and I personally am a big fan as well, but without a doubt his whiteness was what propelled him into a good 95% his popularity/status with only the 5% remaining accounting for actual talent. That’s not to say he wasn’t talented, any real hip hop head that listens to Eminem can very clearly hear that he’s a student of the game and is for sure skillful and great at what he does, BUT had his skin been a little (a lot, actually 😂) less pale, his message would have been ignored & paid dust just like the black great rappers of that time.
@@TheWorld-MyOyster Well, that's why the "also" was there. Being white definitely helped, but it was a combination of that, the relatable topics he rapped about, and his desire to make it big rather than stay underground. The perfect storm, so to speak. Honestly, I don't blame him for going after his dream. There are way worse white people out there who just use black culture because they can. At least Eminem is actually from the hood.
I’m an aspiring white musician who is looking more into the Latin music scene ranging from cumbia batchata guaracha dembow and reggaeton pop i fear the same paradox but it seems to have a natural gatekeeper of having to learn Spanish to participate in those genres and I’ve done that so I think it forces you to be extremely passionate about those genres and cultures and I hope it doesn’t attract racist leeches
@@TheWorld-MyOyster Maybe Eminem became that popular globally because he's that good, and race has nothing to do with anything? cuz he's also popular with Latinos and other countries.
I think he’s drastically underestimating country music. Hip hop is massive but country is just as big and about as white as it gets. I know you can trace it and blues back to Son House but country has evolved from that into white people rap now. All the main lyrical themes are identical too: women, where you’re from, money, cars/trucks, relationships etc.
I think the reason Mac Miller is so beloved by people (white especially) is because of the reflection of his growth and evolution in his music. Through high school hangouts, wild partying days, burnout, and rediscovering life a lot of us grew up with his music growing up at the perfect time but also we never would've had that if he wasn't white
Mac’s Larry Fisherman era saved him. Producing for Vince and hosting basically all of the L.A. music scene was very good for him. Blue Slide Park killed his momentum amongst serious rap fans and that’s when the Frat kids took to him in full. But he was smart enough to not go the way of Chris Webby and follow Asher’s path instead. Asher->Mac is pretty much a parallel to Lupe->Kendrick. The former is lyrically superior but the latter took it farther with more accessibility and playing nicer in the industry.
As a Caribbean person who grew up in the 90s in Toronto I have to disagree with your assessment of Snow. He had personal and very close ties to the Jamaican community in Scarborough. Snow grew up with many Jamaican friends in his apartment building and learned to speak patois authentically. I know people who grew up with him and can confirm this.
Snow grew up in housing in North York near Fairview Mall Toronto . He surrounded himself with the culture and imitated ( embraced )very well . The real reggae artist of the time was Whitey Don . Anybody of that time knows Whitey Don lived the life of a Jamaican in Toronto but Snow switched based on crowd . I’m somebody from the time and grew up around the scene . He’s right .
I agree, I grew up in Etobicoke, the man did a lot for the community here. Not many Americans know that the projects in Toronto are very mixed, racially.
My thoughts exactly It’s honestly disrespectful to not bother researching his life “Irish Canadian” is an disappointing, reductive way to describe Snow
What I loved about Mac was that he carved out his own space but never TOOK up space. He was always cognizant of his place in the culture & wanted to give back to it instead of eat off it. Most real hip hip lovers appreciate him most for that.
thats crazy bro you mean people might like a specific artist and his eccentric music over generic shitty rap songs that all have the same gimmick? you must be really smart
I'm a middle income black man from Jamaica. I grew up listening to Nirvana, Rage, Nails and Pearl Jam on one side, Wu Tang, The Firm, Outcast, Dirty South (No Limit, Trick Daddy, Cash Money, etc) Bad Boy and Death Row. As a third generation Cuban, I also vibed to a ton of Latin Music. I say all this to add that many people tell me that I am not "black" because of my middle income, multi-cultural upbringing. I liked "The Heist", I loved "I love College", I like Eminem.
I hate when ppl say things like "you're not black" because you like what you like. Don't want to be classed in a stereotype but still want to call others "not black" because you like something outside outside whatever. Bro keep being you and music and all art forms are to be enjoyed
I'm a middle aged working class white/latina woman and mother and I have to say I could have written your comment with the exception The Firm and Dirty South! Even the down to what I listened to while I worked my way through community college!🤣❤️
What did your comment add to this discourse? Like that sucks and all bro, I can relate, but that has nothing to do with this conversation. This is about white people in the African-American diaspora of hip-hop. Your comment did not add to that. It was more self-serving therapy. And honestly, I suggest you make a video about it. Not even me trying to talk shit. I think your perspective is something that should be added into the diaspora. And being 25 right now and black there’s a lot more black alternative music, rock ‘n’ roll rock grunge, and those people are making it black, even though it was already black by history. I think you should look into these artists because it would be therapeutic to see yourself as a rockstar all love, bro.
Something you might not know: Big L was a huge influence on Mac, he talked about him all the time while he was alive and how much he loved him. Back in 2009 he would regularly mention that j coles the warmup was an album he went to regularly for emotional support. He also gave a lot of people a push they really needed to break into the industry ( Vince staples, chance the rapper being the biggest names I can think of, but there’s many others)
Big L was an insperation to em aswell, on Ems earlier track infinite you can hear his punchlines sounding like L. Masta ace was also an inspiration for Em.
Big L and Mac's influence on Vince Staples is soooo real tho. He's my current favorite and Ramona Park was my top on Spotify Wrapped this year. Straight up couldn't stop listening to it.
@@MadMaximothat video of q and mac miller playing laser tag and baseball when mac was in a bad spot mentally is one of my fav ever hip hop related videos, it's so funny. love q, one of the most likeable rappers
I think ending the video with the message of showing love to the artists we respect rather then giving artists we dislike more negative attention is a great way to finish the topic. Btw, to anybody who wants another great rapper to listen to, Black Thought has a probably one of the most amazing discographies I’ve ever heard. If you like rappers with meaningful bars and a smooth sound then you’ll love Black Thought’s music.
"what is german food?" bro what? anything that looks like a german word... Bratwurst, Pretzel, Schnitzel, ....beers, sauerkraut, cream cheese, REAL potato salad... not that raisin shit, strudel.. and then don't even get me started on food influenced by Germany (hot dogs and hamburgers in general and german chocolate cake).
The point I feel like he's making is that there isn't a lot of non-Americanized German food in America. Sure you can get a hamburger, but probably wouldn't call McDonald's a German restaurant.
I think that's a silly point to make because almost every type of food we have here is Americanized. I can't think of any type of cultural food that's common here that isn't Americanized. By the way some of the most consumed food items in America are classic German food--BEER. The name Budweiser is incredibly German. I agree with lots of the points that he makes but it's frustrating to listen to people make condescending broad strokes about white people.
@@azrasdc696Do…do you just not know anything about German? Have you never seen the language before? Budweiser couldn’t be a more German name. It’s owned by the parent company Anheuser-Busch. An even more German named company lol
That dude really was your favorite rapper's favorite rapper. Literally any artist that raps that I've looked up beyond the music cites MF DOOM as an inspiration. We lost a real one to COVID.
I think that much of this would have happened regardless of eminem. I grew up in a white rural community and many kids were not into eminem at all but were into Lil Wayne. I think the acceptance of black music came with the beginning of increasing normalization of some aspects of black culture among even entirely white communities with no other black or urban influence aside from media.
It happens with all cultures of all things. If it becomes popular, ppl everywhere will want to do it too. Its cultural appreciation not appropriation. Gatekeeping is wrong
Beer isn't German though 😂 The tradition comes from ancient Sumerians and was then spread through Europe by Germanic and Celtic tribes.... but the early Germanic tribes are not the same thing as the modern German country 🤔
@@TheKatriinaThat's... not true? Beer predates civilization. There's evidence of very primitive brewing equipment going back 13,000 years. That's like saying the ancient Egyptians invented the concept of clothing. Germany does have specific types of beer that they invented.
@@Kharizmah Yeah these things are probably most common, but I would say that there isn't one real "national dish", but there are many different regional dishes, that vary a lot between the regions. I'm from a coal/steel region, so the dishes are mostly really cheap and rich, to be affordable and fill you up. They are often based on potatos, Bacon and Apples (because they're abundant) and a very special regional sausage.
So. White dude here. Talking about black culture. Asterisks abound. So many asterisks. I'm a work in progress, everyone is. I grew up inundated with punk culture. It was who I was, what I lived and breathed, along with Appalachian music like old time and bluegrass. Even these genres are genres that were co-opted from black people. Punk music in particular had a very explicit erasure of the originators of the genre who were black men in Detroit who didn't want the record industry to tell them they didn't belong in the rock and roll scene just because of the color of their skin. Taking it back further old time and bluegrass are both rooted in African roots music. It's been heartening watching black people step back into these genres and take the ownership of what those cultures should be the way they always should have been as the originators. For punk and ska, that's especially important given how white supremacists co-opted the musical origins almost immediately. Even the most iconic "white supremecist" symboligy (the skin-head) originates from factory owners demanding black workers shave their heads and other factory workers shaving their heads as an act of solidarity. I think the only truly "white" culture is flattening all culture into single homogeneous blobs of whiteness and nonwhiteness (even the term "white" itself is a form of erasure). Whiteness is ultimately a hatred of ANY culture, and then the flattening and erasure of that culture. We did it to ourselves first, and once we had no more, we came for everyone else. I don't even really know what we correctly do to stay in our lane, or stay off the road for genres we haven't already co-opted. I think the best advice I have is "make art at home", you know? Like instead of just consuming pre-packaged culture that was manufactured for you by industrial culture factories (be that record companies, streaming companies, movie studios, publishing companies), look around your neighborhoods for what's going on. Go out in your own streets and start doing unapproved, unauthorized, outsider art. You can start by writing messages with sidewalk chalk on your roads or on your sidewalks. You can go to the art supply store get some water colors, and just draw and paint things. Don't self edit. Don't think about if anyone else will accept your art. That's not what matters about art. That's not what any of the great artists your prepackaged culture manages to find and polish set out to do (though it is what some of the unscrupulous artists do). Go to soundcloud and bandcamp and try to find something weird. I probably don't recommend youtube or spotify so much since the algorithmic overlords ply so much pressure there about what does and doesn't get seen, and most importantly, whatever you do, when you run across a piece of art that isn't for you, unless it's promoting a harmful ideology, don't tear it down. Because like... Here's the thing. Capitalism fosters a culture of emptiness that is harming you. In a pre-industrial society your ancestors made music. They ate homemade meals. They danced. And you know? They weren't any better at dancing or singing than you were. They were just as clumsy and awkward and gangly and off key as you are now, but they didn't allow themselves to be bothered by any of these things because the point wasn't to establish themselves at the top of the hierarchical record industry, or be the best dancer. The point was just to... Vibe with it, ya know? Anyway. This comment was way ramblier than I meant it to be and went a much different place than I originally meant to start. But if nothing else, I want people to realize the drive to push people out of genres is ancient. Even if hiphop in its current form dies from frat rappers killing it, street culture will bring about a new form of art that represents an attempt to throw off the yoke of capitalism, again, just like it's been for at least 400 years. Just maybe this time, show some class solidarity and *DON'T* commercialize the shit out of it to make it safe for your own consumption and go straight to the source. Listen without encroaching, and if you do find yourself moved to lend your voice, have some sense, and put your voice at the backs of the people who are pushing the culture of shedding the opressers instead of trying to put yourself in the limelight, mmkay? Not every musical genre needs to be centered around the ruling classes and the ethnic groups who get their special treatment.
Damn, that was good. As a white dude who went to a majority black high school and rapped in cyphers, I definitely got a benefit from being the only white guy there. I was never that good and yet really good rappers would include me and not trash me half as hard as black people that were better than me when I would flop. Never really knew how to articulate what it was but that basketball analogy was spot on. This video was wildly cathartic for me lol
Bruh, the bball thing... I felt so much. I'm Black so I knew wtf it was , but held my tongue cuz the white boy gettin' props was my best friend and I didn't mind him gettin shine. ... to your point.
@@Merchantwun Felt it as well and felt it was fair. What I wanted F.D. to get into though was the other end of this paradox. When your Eminem, or say, JOKER, or Bird (cue Dennis Rodman racist rants), and peers won't acknowledge your quality and go from giving you a pass because your white to weaponizing it.
As a black Eminem appreciater, I appreciate your take on this. I think he legit loved the art but I can definitely understand the type of doors his success opened for people didnt deserve it.
I'm sure you'd say the same if it was the other way around. "Yeah Tiger Woods was good but a lot of black golfers now get attention that they don't deserve." I'm sure you wouldn't say that is racist, would you? Also funny how the amount of new white hip hop fans he brought is often skipped. As a white person who listens to hip hop exclusively now because I found Em relatable when I was young - there are 100s of black artists I wouldn't know if it weren't for Em. Ultimately, who 'deserves' success is not something you or me decide. Otherwise, I'd love to sit here and talk to you about all of the 'rappers' that can't even pronounce a sentence in English - plenty of them that are successful.
@@RandomNon-interestingguy I mean the less talented not because they're white. Easy. I'm not your enemy so stop trying to force beef where there isn't any.
@@RandomNon-interestingguy At a 'certain' point, 'you' have to 'reign' in your use of "quotation marks". Especially if 'you' are going to criticize 'other' people's inability to speak 'English'.
Can I share an anecdote? I have a linguistics degree from a university outside the US, in a country with a fairly small black population, and not a lot of huge black rappers or musicians in general. I was part of a seminar where we had to give presentations on similarity and rhyming in linguistics, and one student chose to present a thorough analysis of rhyming in what he called "black music" (that's what some people here refer to as rap, hip-hop and R&B). His entire presentation was (completely unironically) about Eminem. That's it. That's the anecdote.
Thank you! People never talk about Aesop Rock or Jedi Mind Tricks or Kno from Cunninlynguists because of the lack of commercial playtime. EL P gets some mention and maybe Beastie Boys. Not all rap is hip hop and not all rappers are MCs but I think almost all MC's are in the category of hip hop whatever the color. Always considered hip hop to be to music what skateboarding is to sports. I hope you are well and take care
Eminem inspired an entire generation to say what's on your mind, express yourself, and to take your chance when you get it, to stand up for yourself and to fight back against bullies, and that being the weird and small kid doesnt mean you cant amout to anything. All the while being extremely witty, funny, and skilful at the same time. He's made people realise that it's okay to have childhood trauma or have intrusive thoughts. He helped people process these things. You don't have to be white to be able to learn or grow from his music, just like you don't have to be black to learn or grow from kendricks music. He's fought against censorship in this art form, which paved the way for others to express themselves in the way they need. On top of all of this, he showed nothing but love and respect for everyone that came before him and inspired him. He constantly shouts out these people in award acceptances, interviews and lyrics This is true influence, and he gets very little credit for. Even in this video, he seems to think that nothing would be really different if em didn't come out or get big. Which is seriously ridiculous and honestly, disrespectful.
@@moist603 good morning, those are very valid points and I appreciate you making them. I thought about it quite a bit and I think I agree for the most part. Not entirely but for the most part I think you're right. And I'm not saying it's his fault the Jedi and Aesop don't get appreciated more. But as far as like rap skills go I think a certain amount of it is technique or style which is just basically people's opinion on which one's better but I do think on a skill level they are ignored but again that's not his fault that would be more of a critique of the industry or media in general. Radio stations Spotify that kind of thing. Anyway I really thank you for your perspective. I hadn't considered a number of the things you said and I'm glad you said them because I feel like it gave me a new way to look at it. Hope you are well and take care
This clarified literally everything for me. I grew up in a small town in the Balkans. In the USA I'd be definitely considered white. Allow me to share my perspective. Hip Hop for me was the gate to the rebellious phase of young adolescence. I was probably the only kid in the town that tried to pass completely as a devoted rap fan. I wore my pants down for 4 years before I reluctantly started to listen to other music genres. I tried to present and make myself perceived as rap geek. In all honesty, I became obsessed with Eminem and in the beginning I was listening to him but soon I moved to local artists (in my country everybody was underground in the early '00's). It was through these local artists who mentioned artists like Wu Tang Clan and Public Enemy in their tracks that I found out about them. Then, I had this realization that these artists were the real thing, so I decided to listen only to black rappers. I clearly remember my enthusiasm when I listened to Brother Ali for the first time and then the borderline disappointment that I had when I found out they were white. For me blackness proved the authenticity both of the music and the message in it. At the same time, my lived experience had nothing to do with the story-telling of my favorite artists. When eventually grew out of my self-imposed limits in music, I felt more relaxed and I decided to just enjoy the music based on its merit. This eventually led me to an overwhelmingly black playlist, but that's probably because their music is just better. What sealed the issue was a road trip I took with a friend in the Southern States ten years ago, my only visit in the USA. It was eye-opening. Within three days on the road I had realized that hip hop wasn't just an aesthetic product among others that I could pick up from a shelf. It was a genuine popular music, meaning a people's music. It was the equivalent of my country's popular music, that is the music that emerged out of the self-expression of the workers and the most oppressed people of the society. I realized that it's an actual living thing that speaks to the needs and desires of millions of a specific people that find in it something that I as a white-skinned, non-american, european, non-poor person would never feel it in that way. Beside my own psychological issues, I treated hip hop as a predominantly aesthetic product. I consumed the music and performed the culture as music collector. I didn't wait for my local rapper to drop his new EP; I scanned the 90's catalogue for the best tracks based on music reviews. I hadn't (and I couldn't have) any clue about the social and political context that produced this art, let alone the perspective of a black person that lived through that decade. Now I am 34 and every year my spotify wrapped is dominated by Hip Hop. I still discover some new artists but since I am old my interest in music has decreased enormously compared to my teenage years. But this is the just result of being obsessed a genre in your teen's. This genre will always be your favorite one. For me this is Rap. Incidentally, I turned out leftist and fully in support of BLM when it comes to US politics. But I know that this would have happened regardless of my fascination with a specific part of american black culture. After this video I can confidently say that understand a good part of how the consumption of Black culture served my own needs in the search of identity. This was done away and without my participation in any actual black social setting. So, if this post serves a purpose is maybe to give another way a non-black person can benefit from black culture in a self-centered way.
I don't remember how good kendrick is... but from memory, the 3 rappers, drake, jcole and kendrick... drake has clever lyrics but raps slow, kendrick raps fast bust his lyrics are not clever, and jcole is somewhere in between, faster than drake but not as fast as kendrick, and smarter than kendrick, but not as smart as drake... so it's reasonable that to the grammys, kendrick was too basic for them, whilst macklemore was more innovative
For sure in terms of rap getting mainstream appeal for white people, sure. But I do not think Beastie Boys were a musical influence for Eminem AT ALL. Emimen wanted to be like Nas, Rakim and K.R.S One. Just listen to Infinite.
Yeah I don't think this dude knows many white people, dude comes off a lil prejudice. Could just call people rappers instead of white rappers or black rappers.
Did you even watch the video? Rap is a traditionally black space and genre.. any person that is talking about the history of white musicians in a black dominated genre such as rap needs to say "white" or "black". And if words like that scare you in this video, I implore you to do some soul searching on why that is because you're just being sensitive for no reason. Lock in intellectually bro, it's 2024, too late to be making comments like this unironically.
@jawoncurry9022 lock in intellectually bro... lebron, jordan, and kobe can never be considered the best since basketball was created and played by white men. Black men came along and did it better. Just like Eminem came along and blew the rap world into outer space... not his fault he sells records... he was a respected battle rapper in racially divided Detroit. Grow up man, that white boy is lyrically superior to 99% of rappers regardless of skin color.
@@LMajorDegs bro i can tell you don’t read cause you just said a bunch of nothing. A better point would have been Luka being the best player in the NBA rn (which is a predominantly black league). No one said it’s not possible. When did I ever say Eminem wasn’t a good rapper, I’m a fan of some Eminem. You’re just projecting 💀💀 and btw I can name 5 rappers off the DOME that have received commercial success and universally rival Eminem. Please don’t try to talk music and sports with me you’re going to lose every time.
I think that jazz had a similar problem in the 1950s and '60s. People like Stan Getz, Bill Evans, Paul Desmond, Dave Brubeck, Chet Baker, and more, although great musicians with respect for the culture, were massive commercial successes not because of their musicianship, but because they were white and appealed to a white audience.
@@nomadnuka716 That’s true, but that’s because popular music is now black music. I mentioned jazz specifically because it’s an intrinsically black American art form that now has a reputation for being white and pretentious.
This video actually made me respect Fantanos opinion more. He manages to remove highly biased aspects of music and contextualizes it as objectively as he can. Aka he doesn’t compare Mac miller to other white rappers or even other hip hop artist but to the music as a whole. Getting an 8 is impressive considering he probably would’ve gave Beethoven a lower rating for not being as groundbreaking as Mozart was before him
I agree, mostly, I think that youtuber is quite biased, (he called the Eminem Show mid) and then proceeded to call every other white rapper after Eminem... white. and while I can't lie, a lot of them are corny, I do think that he should've kept his opinion a lot less biased. but for Fantano, he just only likes really weird, niche music, and calls almost everything mid/bad, like, he rated Ice Spice and Lil pump above Andre 3000's sixteen verse.
As a big Mac fan imma weigh in on why I believe he deserves his legacy. Mac's instrumentals are fantastic and his bars are underrated (Ex. Faces) but I agree that he didn't reinvent the wheel. There are other artists with less notoriety who surpass him on one or both fronts. But what Mac did better than almost any other MUSICIAN is packaging his whole self into his music. It's a seamless blend of humor, fun, love, depression, passion, apathy, guilt, and shame that unmistakably humanizes his catalog. Listening to his mountain of unreleased songs on youtube literally feels like hanging out with a friend. And yes, it's not really targeted towards older people, but as a younger consumer the honesty in his music validated some of my feelings, guilty pleasures, and fears literally for the first time in my life. I believe it's his honesty that caused the impact we still see today. Undoubtedly, his whiteness helped him immensely in the acquisition of an audience, but his humanity retained it. He cannot be swapped out interchangeably with any other artist because his shit's too potently distinct once you get to know it. It's not a lotta other artists who accurately encapsulate the intricacies of day-to-day life. His music's rarely on a big scale. that being said, I am white and this undoubtedly factors immensely in the way I relate to his art. So, if anyone else has other artists they feel the same way about, please share below! I'd love to befriend other artists the way I befriended Mac Miller.
Super well worded, and I’d like to add: Mac also GROWS so much over the course of his discography. FD mentions this a little when discussing how he moved out of his “frat boy era”, but going from KIDS, to Faces, to circles really is like watching Mac grow up. You see him become more introspective, sentimental, loving, and thoughtful while still being Mac. This is especially impactful for a large part of his fanbase who were growing alongside him while his music evolved.
@@Oliver_but_digital His journey is actually mirrored very well by Tyler the Creator. They both got their start in the same space and had similar growth and acclaim upon reaching a more matured and variable music. I think Mac Miller's production gives him a lot of credibility but I think looking at Tyler shows how fans reward growth, especially as they grow with the artist.
There is a reason this part of the video is getting a lot of comments pointing out the Mac Miller opinion being off while the rest seem to agree with everything else. This was just FD finding a way to be “factual” about not liking Mac. It’s just so when people say “oh you don’t like Mac Miller?” He can point and go “well because of whiteness blah blah blah” and not seem like an old head who just doesn’t like newer music because what he was saying NO ONE says. No one legit has Mac Miller as the best rapper of all time just their favorite and people in the community don’t like that people have favorites who differ from who is objectively better so they feel the need to “prove” your opinion wrong because you dare say you like an artist music more than what the general consensus of who the best is. It’s annoying.
The Beatles, Elvis and Eminem didn't just appeal to white audiences. They appealed to international audiences (arguably still as a consequence of their whiteness). Eminem had traction in Morrocco, Japan, India... that other artists didn't. Same for The Beatles and Elvis. I feel like there's a bit to unpack there. Making music palatable for "white" audiences also includes a markets very much not white.
They appealed to international audiences singing (or rapping) Black-influenced music. The Beatles spoke on their musical influences. Elvis was a culture vulture in the worst kind of way.
You were 100% right on the battlerap stuff. NEVER let Mook go first, and never let him battle you in new york. Bro literally controls the crowd and can just take rounds from you out of nowhere.
@@fnytnqsladcgqlefzcqxlzlcgj9220gotta check out Canibus getting gagged, choked, beaten to death and revive again and then hung out like Sunday laundry in HIS battle rap clips. Canibus vs Dizaster
@@fanrosefabrose9457 sure I'll check it out now lol Edit: Holy shit... That is just... Wow. Like when you watch a video of someone getting like industrially smashed, he's just flopping around after being dragged through a machine like "what just happened" still trying to bring a notebook to a rap battle afterwards like his organs hanging out and shit
Shout out to Rage Against The Machine. A rock, funk, hip-hop fusion with a very focused and important message. They spoke to things like the wealth divide, corrupt political and corporate structures, racial inequality, police brutality and so much more. Almost a protest movement. Extremely talented artists and band who at the time where embraced by the white rock community but ironically where more conscious level hip hop than they were rock music. For the life of me, I dunno why they didn't get play on hip hop stations. At least in my opinion. Their messaging for better or worse is still as relevant as ever.
damn i typed this out before i finished the vid and u mentioned kenny mason and i fucking love him , metal wings has such an amazing mix of rap and metal and its so good
The only thing I found a little lacking was no mention of MTV and its influence on white suburban music tastes. You mentioned radio, and that was truth when alternative music stations in my area absolutely bumped Eminem right from the word "Hi", but music videos played so much more of a role than radio, IMO. I have loving memories of Yo! MTV Raps!, the Fat Boys, Run DMC (literally "Run DET" shirts are still everywhere here in Detroit to this day), and watching Vanilla Ice dance didn't come from seeing him live, nor did watching Third Bass beat him down in effigy using pimp canes. Eminem's early videos showcased an irreverence that enhanced his lyrics, and the look of NWA's "Straight Outta Compton" was so instantly iconic Chris Rock could go "Straight Outta Locash" with instant recognition of the parody. Also, in the middle of the rap-rock era, the popularity of soundtracks like "Judgment Night" and "Last Action Hero" exposed a lot of kids that just wanted to see a movie with Denis Leary or Arnold to groups like Onyx and Fishbone and Cyprus Hill. Also, not one mention of Kid Rock in his earliest incarnation as a fake street rapper? He was vile from Day One and the only people pumping his music were cruising Gratiot looking for hookups, but he parlayed that and his whiteness into the only reason anyone even talks about him today. I rarely wish video essays were longer but I kinda do with this one, unless maybe a sequel talking specifically about video and its influence on that scene? Loved the essay, just want your take on those couple things. Kudos.
Man my first memory of Eminem was that he was in Total Request Live and he commented on an artist being presented along the lines of "I like them, they keep it real" and Carson Daly goes and ask him "can you explain what that means, keeping it real?" and man the look Eminem gave him was so annoyed.
I was expecting a kid rock mention too. He’s garbage and the way he screwed over all the people that took him in and helped him early on is so disgusting.
There’s a great quote used frequently in the podcast Binchtopia. “Bitches hate nuance” Basically it means that people don’t like the discomfort of nuanced topics. They want it cut and dry and it never is. You should feel comfortable making everyone a little uncomfortable by challenging their assumptions.
So long as you creating that discomfort are comfortable with people challenging your views in return and making you feel the same slight discomfort as well, i think that's an excellent rule to live by
Exactly the problem on the internet is that there is no nuance When it comes to race people only make blanket statements “White people are this way and black people are that way” as if all white people are the same and all black people are the same”
@@saratongel You can't expect all the nuance from one source, FD has his biases and angles and with them he adds a valuable perspective. It doesn't need to be perfect and any one individual cannot embody the entire cultural discourse.
Brother. When you got to Milkbone, I had to pause the video, walk to my office, and check my records. It has been DECADES since Milkbone has crossed my mind.
@@emmanuelmondesir sure, no argument there but they also tend to be like Luka fans. When their name is protected, they love to say things like “you are all just mad that the greatest rapper ever is white” which is untrue in both ways. Nobody’s mad about that and also he’s not the greatest rapper ever.
I almost went to bed, and left the last 30 minutes for the morning… but that last 20 minutes with the unraveling of Mac Millers legacy really hit me hard. I appreciate you and your work
For me, Eminem led me to finding old school rap (Naughty by Nature, Mob Deep, Wu-Tang Clan, Nas) and finding more artists and an appreciation of the art style.
😂Yeah, because his fan base was already well initiated by the classics hip hop like EPMD or Do or die or Nas or Run DMC . There was radio played real rap before Eminem 😂 and Eminem fans knew that already before Eminem came out. There's a way better gangster rapper that was white that came out strong with his first album,totally independent and self produced and he was better than Dr.Dre and Eminem combined, he was Eminem and Dr. Dre combined with the beats and results in his rap. His name was Woodie and his first album is call "Yoc influenced" and it kicked off the marriages of killer raps with even more killer beats ! Look up woodie, white as heck ! Best that ever did it !
em was not a gangster rapper andyou just mentioned bout every damn rapper on the east coast around the time of dre and nwa and the chronic. of course radio is gonna be playing nas in new york and do or die in chicago, the west coast was coming at the birthplace of rap during this time and em happened to be riding with the most famous or infam,ous of them after dre witnessed him killing the battlerap game in detroit. his fanbas (mostly)was not listening to the east coast artists you just named lol there was real animosity for east coast in the west in the 90s and the west was tryin to hear shit that was gangsta or just straight up wild/vile@@auntjenifer7774
I think thats great, but the bigger question should be, why didn't you hear about any of those guys first? They were all making music before Em. If you have to think about why you never heard of them first, than you understand the problem with the Industry and the inherent bias of mainstream media towards white people.
I mean, what did you expect him to say? This guy is very compelling and I really like his essays, but there’s no way in hell such a deeply entrenched Afrocentric thinker would admit that Eminem is one of the best to ever do it. And CONTINUES to be! Even if you have them at the very bottom of your top 10 list, that still makes him one of the best ever. Not having him there at all is mad, disrespectful to the genre and what constitutes quality within the genre.
I think Em is a probably top 5 rapper in terms of his lyrical and technical abilities, however I’m not into his discography that much either. Discography includes production, song arrangements etc. I’m not into a lot of his albums but I do love some of his songs. So, I see where he is coming from.
It’s weird to have someone really go at appropriation and talking about the struggle of having Art recognized because of skin, then dismiss Eminem’s discography because he’s white and feel that popularity isn’t deserved because he’s white. The line that Eminems music is a bunch of songs that “are about him murdering his girlfriend and mom or whatever” is wild, same energy as people who say “I don’t like rap because it’s just about violence and guns or whatever”. I don’t think the issue is that Eminem only connects with white people because they are white, Eminem makes his own style of rap music, Eminem music is “Eminem” he’s doing his own thing, and while there are certainly people who like him because he is white, I’d say the bigger issue is that a lot of people, of all races, might like what he’s doing, and not recognize that what he’s doing with it is very different, so when they branch out and it’s not that, they don’t like it.
Being German and Irish…you’re not wrong, lol. It was learning about my family’s background in school in the 2000’s that really changed my views. Learning about “no Irish need apply” signs, because we’re apparently lazy, drunken, untrustworthy. I would read this in my history book, then turn on the tv and hear a right wing politicians arguing how group xyz is bad because they are “lazy, addicted, untrustworthy”…hmmm.
Provide a specifc quote from the last 20 years where a right wing political explicitly calls any race "lazy, addicted, untrustworthy". Time to escape the mind virus
The book "How the Irish Became White" actually goes into this history in almost exhausting detail. The book "Paddywhacked" touches the same subject, just more through the lens of laws and legal punishments. It's wild and why I'm really tired of this sideshow. There nothing new under the sun, it's just the targets that keep getting shifted onto new backs for the same old reasons.
Finally someone who addressed Em and Mac with the nuance they deserve. You articulated the argument with the precision and tact I’ve come to know and love you for👌🏿
I’m white, and I 100% agree. Finally someone that can show both worlds without hate, and showing that they do have links, they have their own story, but sometimes they do toutch. And Em is just, one of a kind. And thank Dr Dre for giving him to the world and perfecting his art.
I don’t know if you knew or not but Eminem also challenged his white audience through “White America”, he spends a good amount of time on the track speaking about how he rose to prominence because of how he looked and how he was criticized of how he influenced white youth, whereas the white community would not care about this if he was black. Besides that minor thing, you’ve brought a good amount of stuff that I’ve been thinking about and brought them to a more articulate level, this was a nice video as always!
A bunch didn't know he was White at first, like Vanilla Ice. And who knows how well he'd do if he wasn't backed by Dr Dre. Dre had his beats, and gave him the clout.
am I the only one who doesn't care what race a musician is? I feel like this whole topic is way overblown. Nobody owns art, least of all a race... jesus. There's a lot of artists who I wasn't aware what their race was until after I liked them.
@moonasha But it always seems one-sided. Bcse it's easy to say that when ur not the creator. But everything I create is being cannibal ized and I'm never getting the credit. Also there are 2 sides to rap. The ugliest side is being marketed to BP. Although they have a big wyt audience. When the N word is being repeated by WP
@@moonasha I find it weird too but I've noticed that americans always tend to make things about race or sex so I believe this is more of a cultural thing that happens in the US, they put a lot of emphasis on these social constructs.
The problem with Jack Harlow is actually more about marketing than anything, he was marketed as this white rapper that looked cute enough for all the girls to be like oh I like that one I want that one and then they would listen to his music the same way they did with boy bands back in the '90s. I love backstreet boys and NSYNC, but some of their less known tracks are less known for a reason. They're just kind of mid, but the hits, they hit like a grand slam. I feel like the same thing on a lesser level happened with Jack Harlow. Like he's a good dude and all but the music is really only okay. I only have like three of his songs ever on my liked songs list and that's not a lot for me because if I like an artist I really like an artist. One of those artists that I really appreciate and love is Mac Miller, I got into him after I got into Tyler the Creator during his flower boy era. No I'm not going to say that I was definitely a day one fan, I got into Mac about a year before he passed and I've been slowly going through his back catalog. I still think the original version of the star room is fantastic, for me growing up in choir and jazz choirs, the kids singing at the beginning that he then samples for the rest of the song illustrates exactly what Mac was to the culture. He was the newest generations through line from whiteness to be able to explore the influences he had himself. Because of Mac Miller and Tyler I got into tribe called quest, I got into MF DOOM etc. and I'm better for having those guys as my narrative through line to help me look back at the culture of hip hop and the history of hip hop and be able to appreciate music that came out with my brother was a kid like Tupac and DMX and guys like that. Basically the reason why you don't understand the appeal of Mac Miller is because you did not need him, and you also didn't necessarily need Tyler.
He's an industry approved mix of Li'l Dicky and G-Eazy. Like both of them, he'll probably fall out of the general consciousness after his 18 months are over.
@@NoodleMcGee I think what bothered me about Jack Harlow wasn't even Harlow himself, but more of the conversation surrounding him. There was clearly a vocal minority that was trying to give him the keys to the rap kingdom despite the fact that his music is very, very mid. His first album is basically just warmed over Drake tracks that not even Drake would put on his album. His second album is "better," but it really does show that Harlow has nothing going on for him other than being a White rapper.
I'm glad you called out that 'missed opportunity' - i experienced that as a teenager, and as everything broke apart as I got older, I thought the same thing. Funk, Hip-Hop, Ska, punk, metal...there was a point there where everything was in a pot and stirring and then...it just...spilled. Sad when you think about it.
That period in the late 90s and arguably all the way through the 2000s was a missed opportunity that ended with the massive commercialization of many of the things we love. Then began the era of California Gurls, SMH.
@@That1J1 it's so sad. I remember a time when it was like, you could listen to public enemy, NWA, run DMC, the beastie boys, a bunch of grunge bands, some alternative bands, ska, and it was a 'if you get it, you get it' sorta thing. Right? Am I remembering that right?
@@packrat-y7jremember the Vans Warped Tour and shows like that? The most diverse crowds and acts I’ve ever seen. It was an amazing time that we didn’t fully appreciate while we were in it.
@@packrat-y7j bruh, that reminds me of a funny story. I went to one a few years before it fell off. My friend and I actually kicked it with the Blackeyed Peas! Do you remember when they started out as an underground hip-hop group before they sold all the way out? This day they were super humble and were so excited that we could quote their lyrics and shit. Will I. Am gave me a big ol’ hug and just kept dappin’ me up, like he was so happy to have fans, lol. We hung out for a good twenty minutes just chopping it up. They signed everything we had and gave us some free merch, still have some of it actually. They were really cool. It’s just crazy and surreal to think about when you consider where they ended up. Doing the halftime show at the Super Bowl, having their shit on every commercial that existed for a good five year stretch. Sold out so hard that it’s low-key impressive. I remember seeing an interview where Will said “I got tired of keeping it real and being broke” and you know what? That’s kinda fair. At their height, they probably wouldn’t even acknowledge me, or maybe have security throw me out if I tried to say hi and drop the “remember when” on them. Life is crazy. Anyway, sorry for the rambling story, our convo just reminded me of that surreal shit. Hope you have a good one homie.
When I was in high school Eminem appealed to me because of the way he delivered his messages and the things he talked about. When Dre was talking about blunts, 40oz’s and bitches, Eminem was rapping about homosexuals and Vicodin. It was something new. There’s no denying that. And it was a comfort and excitement to see a white person make it in the rap game. Of course it was speaking to white people. At that time we desperately needed a hero in the rap game to represent us, because the black rappers were not repping us. Dre already admitted that his circle was racist about Marshall from the beginning. They didn’t want Dre to give him a spot.
@@evelynstenberg You realize that eminem’s type of rap isn’t everyone’s jam right? I couldn’t stand when he started angry yelling his lyrics in his later years. The SS LP/MM LP will always be my favorite albums from him.
Seems more likely that Mack Miller had a young audience that he developed that liked him, and that propelled him forward, leading to his fame and wide reception. Music commentators tend to compare everything to the past, but are woefully unaware that most of the fans of new music are new people without even awareness of the past.
that's what I loved about Mac and Tyler growing up in retrospect. we were growing up and going thru phases simultaneously. Tyler once said he was uncancellable because by the time everyone was in outrage over what he did, he'd already grown and moved on
@@onyxgothicc The question is what do the older fans of older musicians not realize they are ignorant about regarding even older music and how it led to their music?
8:32 I wanna see a whole video on this so badly. I think there used to be some writing about how colonialism created a “cultural dialogue” that has fallen out of favor now for obvious reasons, but like, I think there’s some truth to it. Peoples can’t be locked in the in the intense struggle of oppression and resistance to oppression without being influenced by each other. There’s been a whole lot of important done illuminating the way oppressors steal and appropriate the culture of the oppressed (interesting but not widely know example: the banjo is descended from African instruments). But I really think there is more going on in the relationship than just appropriation, and it can be difficult to know how to explore cultural interaction between oppressor and oppressed, and dynamics beyond just appropriation, without giving ammunition to colonialist apologia.
If you haven't read it already, I recommend How to Hide an Empire: A History of the Greater United States, by Daniel Immerwahr. It discusses this dynamic a great deal.
Side note about The Dixie Chicks controversy: Even though country music audiences aren't entirely conservative, they are majority conservative, which is why they got fried for speaking out against Bush. There were other groups in the 90s explicitly calling out what would be considered "woke" causes today that similarly didn't have their careers erased - like Rage Against the Machine. Hell, Killing in the Name, a song explicitly condemning white supremacy in policing, got heavy radio play! Modern country audiences are, unfortunately, one of the worst audiences out there, to the point where they routinely erase black artists' contributions to the genre.
@@grantkerr8298 It does show, and that's why they're some of the best rappers of the last decade. Kendrick has gone on record to show Eminem was one of his biggest influences and you can see it in both his lyricism, his cultural commentary and his ability to quickly and easily switch flows.
In the defense of Mac and his “one of the goats of this generation” : Mac millers sound has developed incredibly over the course of his career. The way mac evolved as an artist is truly amazing and something we don’t see often in music in general, let alone hip hop. The differences and reimagining of hip hop while remaining relatively consistent with his flow/delivery. Mac millers transitioning from the frat boy rap, to watching movies, to good AM, to Divine feminine, to Circles (Ik there are multiple more albums, however these feel like reps for different eras) is incredible. Completely pushed the mold without feeling like he was appropriating from other artists.
Mac also every time he walked I. The studio didn’t have a guy like jay z on his side his whole career 😂😂. Every Mac album was put together like most of the childish gamibino project which are all only touched and produced by said artist. Mac’s lane was the generation of music makers that made everything themselves from the second you press play to the second it goes off. Which is why the attempts at fame didn’t work he was too concentrated on the music
@@yamean616 faces is an amazing album. I’m not really the type to promote unreleased music since I get its unreleased for a reason, but Macs project balloonerism was an incredible experience even after learning about it after circles. One of the more creative experimental projects in his catalog.
Not gonna lie I like Mac more than Eminem. May not be as good lyrically but macs flow and beats are quite a bit better imo. Em mommy issue songs got old fast
Great video. Being from Detroit and being apart of the underground scene in the 90’s Eminem earned his bonafides honestly. None of us trusted him but he kept showing up and proving himself over and over again. His ascent was unique in that respect alone. Overall your analysis of his impact is spot on.
@@Amazingprophet08 that is true , not from Detroit but the underground scene was something back in them days some of those guys use to come down to Cincinnati at the "pass the mic" shows and other Midwest underground scene.. overall enjoyed the content of this video .. stay safe and blessed 💯
I don't even listen to rap (I'm an autistic metalhead and I'm just delving in there, not for other reasons) but I watch your videos as soon as they come out, and I'd like to think I've learnt a lot and have improved on my politics and morale as a result. Thank you!
Woo autistic here too. I have listened to rap, since the early 90s, obsessively and lovingly, and it taught me TONS. You should give it a try. (Also metalhead, techno DJ, junglist, jazzhead, etc etc)
That's a great thing about Signifier's videos. He finds these forgotten connections between American cultures. Full on metalhead/punk here that loves a surprise hip hop track that grabs me.
@@tomchamberlain4329 I've tried. I don't dislike it. I just don't have the same compulsion to research and listen to it daily, and follow up with new releases.
@@septembergirl1993I’d recommend checking out UnityTX if you haven’t already. They’re a Rap/Metal band local to my city and as a fan of both genres I can’t get enough of their sound. Bang Shit and Cross Me are two to look into
@@septembergirl1993man u probably heard this before, i aint even gonna pretend like its niche. But seriously listen to to pimp a butterfly by kendrick. It took me some time to get into, i just started with the first 3 songs and listened until i liked them and went from there. Listen to them once a day and I promise if youre patient, it could genuinely get you into a whole new genre of music, and you will not regret that
As an aging millennial, I am so happy that I knew exactly who FD was talking about at 1:00. Marlon is the only white boy from this generation of fellow kids that has caught my ear. Edit: just realized Eminem addresses the rock station issue specifically in the Way I Am. "Pigeonholed into some poppy sensation, they got me rotating at rock and roll stations and I just do not got the patience to deal with these cocky Caucasians who think I'm some wigger who just tries to be black cause I talk with an accent and grab on my balls so they always keep asking the same fucking questions. What school did I go to what hood I grew up in" and goes on to say it was driving him crazy. FD is right, he really didn't want the role, but see, white supremacist capitalism wasn't asking.
It’s the industry machine. It just needs a direction, then the gears churn and it connects money to potential money. It’s part of the system, and it’s one of the parts that perpetuate racist actions. The white performer gets the glory while the machine churns to make more sales, and the black consumers stand by as someone’s taken their art and made money off it for themselves
As a mexican, I can definetely see the white-whashing of culture, and I can't help but think it happens on every level (music, food, art, even arquitecture), every time money can be involved, a white version of anything popular will emerge to be validated within all society. Nonetheless I think that this paradox is very linked with capitalism and I don't know that THAT philosophy is the best way to appreciate and consume art in general, I really feel that this paradox starts with the ability to profit from it once it becomes popular, because then it stops being about the music, it's about who sells it better.
It’s alright. I’m black, native and German who gets confused as being Latin and Dominican (okay so Latin is about 2 generations back but I digress). You know who you are…and you’re loved and can walk right into the cook out right? Sometimes you just side step it. You know when it’s meant to be mean and she it’s just uncle makin a joke, but he still loves you.
Logic is white passing. That's what makes him spicy white, not just being biracial. I'm not here to belittle your feeling, but your response of "as a biracial person," as if Logic reflects all or even most biracial experiences, is a little telling; J. Cole was praised later in the video and he has a white parent. Let's not make FD's joke something it's not, i.e. slighting all biracial people. Edit: It was directed toward people who hold a certain amount of privilege because they're white passing
As an older white millennial who loves hip-hop and considers myself somewhat of a hip-hop nerd. This video is pretty much perfection. I personally don’t think you could have more thoughtfully put together, or laid it out any better than this. So huge kudos to you. I have a feeling this video is going to offend a lot of people, and good - It’s a slap of reality that’s needed for a lot of people. I’m really glad this video (although briefly) touched on how this is rooted in white supremacy, specifically through the exploitation of capitalism. I wish more creators touched on how capitalism basically ruins everything. So props for touching on that as well. Side note: I low key kind of hate that I said “Marlon Craft” to myself, about 5 seconds into your explanation before you said his name lol. He is one of, if not the first white hip hop artist I’ve actually seen tackle subjects like you talked about in this video with any type of grace of nuance tho. Which leads me to believe he won’t actually be allowed to become a mega star for specifically bringing awareness, and addressing those systemic issues. Although, who knows. He is dope tho, and I am a fan. So I guess the paradox continues..
I can't speak to whether he'll become a megastar, I know past a certain point that's the industry club's call, but as rap and hiphop fans if we feel he deserves the recognition we can do our part to shout Marlon out constantly and try to get his work on people's minds by pointing them to him and hoping they'll in turn spread the word. Maybe he'll have a slice he may well deserve yet.
The thing is even of he does keep spreading the awareness and talking about these topics, unless he puts it into action it will feel like “white allyship” all over again.
@@roscomcfarland204 Capitalism as a function does not create art, it actually hinders art in multiple ways. So no, capitalism did not bring me a single artist I loved. In fact, the very act of capitalism denied me access to more artists I would have likely loved due to the financial limitations of purchasing more music.
@@xTobsecretx Doesn't that just circle back to the issue inherent with being a white rapper then? What exactly is he alone supposed to do to single handedly buck white supremacist capitalism and fully 100% clear the good ally vibe check? Just rap in a hole in the shire and never try to find success with his art? And besides, is not speaking truth to power in his verses to his audience, many of whom may well be white boys, especially as the privileged class where he has no obligation or benefit to do so, not direct action in and of itself? Or should he personally throw molotovs at 3k hangouts? We don't even know this guy, I can't speak one way or the other what action or lackthereof he takes as an ally. I'm not saying you have to like or accept the guy but I am genuinely curious what you would want him to do to pass your vibe check.
There are entirely too many stories of ppl within the industry speaking to Mac's character as well as his respect for the genre/musical talent. He went out of his way to avoid the white rapper box ppl are so quick to place him in, while regularly making space for those who either needed a hand or someone to guide them along the way in an industry where it's hard to trust someone (especially when they don't look/sound like you). Everyone just usually has their own agenda, but it has been made abundantly clear that he had love for the game and his peers, and it was always about the music for him. He was taken far too young and it left a hole in a lot of fan's hearts bc it is genuinely rare to have someone like that gain as much notoriety without fizzling out or switching up when they got the bag.
I'm from Detroit and was ready to get salty about this post. It's a very slippery slope and you handled it well. I do a Jazz blog and have long ago become "colorblind" and use the quality of the music as the only cover charge. Thank you for an interesting, well-crafted video.
As someone deep in the punk/pop-punk/emo scene, I'd be interested to hear your analysis on something you touched on for a second that young black artists are taking more and more to rock inspired stuff than before and where that definitely still small but noticeable transition is coming from.
Being a white dude that for most of his life heard only punk and metal, and knows very little about north american hip-hop (although I do know a good amount more about brazillian hip-hop, being born and raised here), it's always a treat to watch your hip-hop and rap videos. It's like discovering a whole new world I had no idea existed. Like, I honestly knew more black rappers that you mentioned in this video than the white ones - I only knew eminem and vanilla ice, never heard of mac miller or milkbone or whatever. It's hella entertaining watching you explain the whole history behind the topic you want to tackle, because for people like me, I can get the idea now that I have the context. And trust me, only boring dudes think the Anthrax + Public Enemy collab sucks or is dated. That shit rocks.
to be fair there arent many successfully mainstream white rappers, the only major staple names id expect someone not tapped in to recognise would be eminem, mac miller and the beastie boys
It sounds like the root cause of your "problem" with white rappers is actually a rant against capitalism, and that record sales/income/mainstream awards is supposed to be an objective measure of talent or value of an art form that has been around long enough to evolve into more than its narrow beginnings. As a black person that is not from the hood, I have listened to hip hop since Run DMC, Whodini, NWA, until now. When Eminem's Slim Shady LP dropped, I happened to relate more to his album than ANY album I had heard before it, including 2pac. That's not something that people can control, how art makes them feel. Even if I can recognize that 2pac had a more positive message (before death row), and Timbaland has objectively better beats than Dr. Dre and almost all the west coast gangsta shit of the time, Eminem's first album just struck a chord (pun intended). After listening to enough types of music, and trying to categorize them all, I realized one day that it's kinda futile, because the idea of a genre is not black and white, there's no lines. It's continuous multidimensional gradients. To say that "this is real hip hop" is just as subjective as asking whether the song is good. What category do you put Rage Against the Machine? Is Sublime cultural appropriation, or is it appreciation? Is death metal as a whole what Mozart and Beethoven would have done today, since death metal is basically classical music played on a guitar and amplified to 11? As for the money aspect, how is it bad that Michael Jackson, Drake (i dont like ANYTHING from drake) and Eminem found a way to appeal to more people than any other artists in history? Sure, it's not fair that the total purchasing power of Caucasians in America is at least 5x higher than the creators of this art form if going just by population. What could we do about that? Don't make music that appeals to white people? Don't sell music to white people? None of this makes sense to me. For example, Everytime Drake and Kendrick drop an album around the same time, all hip hop fans are only paying attention to K dot because his music has infinitely more substance. But drake has all the pop panties wet, so he gets sales. Are they even the same kind of music? It sounds like you want all hip hop to sound the same, and only come from people who look a certain way and come from a certain background, but just as rock turned to grunge, thrash, death, black, numetal and whatever the hell else, hip hop has turned into a multitude of subgenres, and yours is no longer the most popular. This is just as bad as the gatekeeping that happened when lil nas x went #1 on the country charts, and they took him down because he didn't have the "country background" they wanted their music to come from. If you like the song, just like the song.
Hip hop is worldwide now.. transcends ethnicity, language, and class… thank you to the black community for this gift, but the world has grabbed a hold of it and is running with it
There's 25,000,000 white people living below the poverty line in this country. I grew up in the projects and hip hop was the music I related too.I don't think it's ĵust about the black experience, I think hip hop is about the experience of the forgotten that are at the bottom.
bro, the way this guy veils his feelings of racial superiority behind being "fair" put me off to this video and i had to just leave around the 9-10 minute mark. he says black art is superior and "clears the rest" almost always. or that white people owe everything to black people from throughout history. its like he learned every opinion he has through weird ass internet threads. this shit is so outdated. then again, he's old
@@lazardox8769he literally explains his views on black art as a result of white American art being rooted in a history of Puritanism and a lack of artistic expression while black/african art is often rooted in a culture that encourages it and fosters it more, so no shit it would be better. I feel like to stop at 10 minutes through the video and cite a sense of “racial superiority” from signifier is kinda weird especially cause he was just in the middle of building his argument
@@iy2147 i would say, instead of blanketly saying black art is better than white art we instead just appreciate art for what it is and not attribute superiority of anything by basing it on race. not to mention that what you just said is an opinion, and having opinions that are based on racial superiority is something i dont agree with. whether its the apparently acceptable form of expressing racial superiority or not, i guess. im not going to listen to someone i think is building an argument for superiority based on race because most people wouldnt want to continue to hear the opinions of stereotypical racial supremacists like skinheads or neo-nazis. it all stems from similar shit, and idc what your argument is if it begins with laying foundations that excuse expressing racial superiorty
@@lazardox8769he doesn’t say black art is better than white art nimrod he literally says right before the 10 minute mark that all cultures have their unique arts that are valuable
People want to see passion, but most people can't recognize that, they assume it's the sounds, the audio, the colors or style. Not realizing what makes it so good is the passion people bring to it
People really like Mac Miller because he seamed very genuine. In time if he didn't pass away, he would have surprised us all. I look at him like Capital Steez, to say that it was a terrible loss of life. Could you imagine what both those guys would have been if they got the chance to mature in the rap game Please take mental health seriously because a lot of geniuses struggle with it in a world that's not kind to sensitive thinkers
I came from a broken home (white, upper middle class, domestic violence). the way violence related trauma was being processed in hip hop was very soothing to me. i felt seen in a way. so there was always a disconnect between relating to the violence, but not the violence specific to poc living in american ghettos (from whom the music originated). i strongly associated with the culture regardless and eminem was a kind of bridge for me.
I think one thing being overlooked when it comes to Mac Miller is that most who love his music love it because they loved him as a person. Sure he was nice for a white dude but Mac came up in the blogging era so he was on camera a lot. He was a positive light, he respected the culture, and he seemed like a generally fun loving guy. He had his public struggles and he was super vulnerable in his music. He grew as an artist and we all grew as people together. So yes he was a white rapper and he definitely benefited from that, but Mac mainly achieved his adoration, love, and respect through who he was as a person. Simply listening to the art without having that connection creates an expected level of dissonance.
Facts mac Miller is one of the white rappers the makes you forget he’s white and that’s he’s just a dude, someone that’s like someone you know in your life
interesting point, makes me wonder about internet presence/cross disiplinary exposure in general. id wager donald glover wouldnt have been nearly as successful with his music if he wasnt known through tv and comedy
As a black man these are facts, also he collaborated with dozens of old heads from previous generations of hip hop. Like he said on Faces “If I ain’t in your top ten then you a racist”😅
@@screwyouguysimgoinghooome8479 did you not watch the video? “Nice for a white dude” is basically what F. D. said. It is true because he’s nice regardless of his skin color. Please don’t nitpick and try twisting the intent of my comment. I love Mac.
I would love to see a video on a subject you alluded to in this video. That being Nu Metal. These were bands like Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park. This wave of music blended hip hop and metal and we began to see a melding of 2 groups of people that were traditionally kept separate. Linkin Park did an album with Jay Z. Ice Cube did a song with KoRn. Method Man did a song with Limp Bizkit. It was a wonderful time where rap and metal sat at the same table, and I am sad that it didn’t amount to more than what it became. I doubt you’ll even see this comment, but if you do, please do a video on this subject. I would love to hear your take.
tbf it was kinda cringe in hindsight, altho not quite in the 'white boy rapper claiming the streets' way. Not gonna lie, my little hormone-fueled teenage-ass felt Linkin Park but imo it's only KoRn and RatM that actually stands the test of time
As an Indian who grew up on Eminem before realising the problematic aspects of his existence this video is such a great watch and I can see this happen to Indian hip hop at the moment which initially gained fame from Mumbai (Slum, Poverty) and Tamil (Caste/Colour Politics) hip hop slowly shift entirely to North Indian hip hop which is mostly just bragging on beat very well.
I think another aspect is the way that rap and hip hop are appropriated by different Indian regions/artists. A lot of the Tamil rap I'm familiar with (not cinema music, but independent artists) definitely add their own artistry with kuthu beats, flows and interludes that are very... Indian sounding? It's more than adding meaningful lyrics. I don't know enough about regional artists up north, but definitely the mainstream ones don't do anything more than change the language and brag. I think Sidhu Moosewaala was pretty good though, depth of lyrics-wise.
I also have a bit of... Dislike (?) for Desi rappers in the diaspora who try to use the artform to partially speak on their experience of racism and class discrimination, partially try to appropriate Blackness and profit off it, and partially try to 'feel oppressed' (specifically people like Raja Kumari try to talk about slums like they've been there, but are caste and class privileged).
@@janhaviverma5180 making the rap sound Indian is such a good point! Exactly why Tamil hip hop even some mainstream film ones sound so close to home. The same goes with Marathi hip hop, although the beats mostly sound western, the adlibs are quintessentially Maharashtrian in nature and one's that people from here can relate to. There's obviously great artists up North too but the mainstream is just trap beats and lyrical miracle flows but in Hindi. Punjabi rap falls victim to that as well but there's certainly great songs since they come from a tragedy that many of these artists were born into (Sikh Pogroms 1984) and the increasing alienation they feel since then.
I would love to hear your take on how hip-hop penetrated cultures internationally as well. Growing up in Tbilisi, Georgia Tupac, for example, had a huge influence on the street gang culture in early to mid 2000s. His songs really took on a different punch for boys growing up in an impoverished post-soviet country. Had a strong love-hate relationship with the genre as a whole growing up because of all these different connotations and cultural relativism.
Yeah my mom and dad in Somalia during the civil war listened to Tupac and 50 cent sometimes on the radio and enjoyed listening to their music even despite what they were going through
Snow was legit in reggae. My family knows him personally and I met him many times growing up. He got his reggae influences from people in his neighbourhood like my Jamaican dad who he was close childhood friends with. And many other Jamaican immigrants living in his community. He was pretty much immersed in Jamaican culture. Enough to legitimately know patois. The community he comes from and the one I also grew up in was low-income and mostly black immigrants. It was the closest Canadian equivalent to the hood, considering our supposed social security nets up here. His music was and is still loved by Jamaicans because he was just that good at reggae. He gave back a lot to his community when he got semi-famous and still hung around that same community years after the fact hosting block parties and stuff for the kids and adults. I feel like that Jim Carrey skit single-handedly made him a laughing stock when it wasn't at all deserved.
I don't think it would've been that different if that skit didn't happen. I'm sure he was respected in his community and that a lot of people who understand where he comes from fw him, but broadly speaking, he was on mtv as a goofy nerdy white guy singing in a patois. I don't think he had any chance of getting respect from a larger audience
@@keenanmitchell3913 England has a huge Caribbean population, especially in London and the Midlands. If you hear British rap or “Grime” or the EDM scene it has huge Caribbean influence and it’s common to have someone rapping or emceeing in Patois.
Also, didn't Snow see his music video for Informer for the first time in prison? For assaulting a guy with a crowbar or something like that? He was legit in more ways than one.
Today I found out that food I see as quintessentially American is actually German such as the pretzel and hamburger which upon retrospect should have been obvious. I apologize to the German delegation I wasn't aware of your game
And who goes out for beers anymore, right?.. Oh wait. 😅Great video man, thank you.
I was gonna say. Ain't no American food original man 🥴
I was going to comment after the video a few foods 😂😂
@@Antwannnnwell... You know those fake highly processed cheese squares which probably isn't even cheese?
That's American 😅
@@Antwannnn most original American food comes from black folks from the south. A big part of that is they had to make do with the scraps they were given/able to get during slavery. The only American white food I can think of are those nasty ass casseroles and gross jello molds with random food from the 60's.
The Beastie Boys actually started out as a hardcore punk band. Punk and hip hop were tight friends in NYC into at least the mid 80s, and still are in certain circles. And they weren't a frat boy band, but that album was full of songs parodying frat boy culture. They rarely played those songs live because so many people misunderstood them. It wasn't until meeting Rubin that they kind of abandoned their hardcore background and focused purely on hip hop, by which point they were entirely different people than those who put the parody album together in their bedrooms.
I'm just listening along, but everyone in my part of the country knew who they were from day one. It'll probably be the only thing I'll be able to contribute in these comments, so there it is.
yep they started out as a bad brains cover band too.
The beastie boys actually did another rock album after they became rapper
There's footage of them playing a TV show with the best punk band the Butthole Surfers
Yea my dad only ever played the earlier era so when I first heard some of their later songs i just straight up did not know who they were
I don't know if you've seen it but Lil Bill here on TH-cam has a video explaining how Punk has always been black if you'd like to know more about it
I started this weekend wanting to learn about Kendrick & Drake. Here I am 10 hours of video essays later learning the roots about rap.
Legit exact same path here 😅 I’ve learned so much over the last few days lol
I second this, lol. That's exactly how I ended up here.
Me too now. His videos on Kanye are fantastic.
Every time i hear about "gen z discovering eminem and cancelling him" it blows me... bro we are working adults now ive never met a single person my age who doesnt know who em is and what hes about. Maybe youre talking about those alpha kids
That news is prolly for people that already believe it
Young gen Z is still in high school. Gen alpha has barely reached puberty
Generational discourse is bullshit anywho.
I literally dont know anyone our gen who has tried to cancel eminem
gen alpha is like, 12 and under. no gen z is trying to cancel eminem at this point, he's a little...i mean he's not at the top of his game anymore. he got more backlash back when he first started and he and his fans are just holding onto because what is eminem if not controversial.
It's crazy to me that, living in spain my whole life, I was taught in school about picasso, and not ONCE did anyone ever mention him being influenced by african art. This video is literally the place I learned that.
Because that's not how it went. Picasso had a short African phase where he painted some stuff based on some African masks he used to collect (one of them very famous, the ladies of avignon), but that's it, the rest of his career and the whole movement of cubism has nothing to do with it.
Its like saying J.K Rowling owes her success to Agatha Christie because at some point she wrote crime novels.
@@hipiticlivi7400having a phase where you make art based on an African American art. That is being influenced by African American art.
@@Starlight-ue8jy not African American. Just African
@@CaptianTwug oh. Sorry.
@@hipiticlivi7400nope. You are very wrong about that. If you actually go through Picasso's discography you'll know that early on he was a pretty normal painter. The first few years he made romantic style oil painting with a little bit of post-impressionism also known as his blue period. And note that this was when post-impressionism was at its peak popularity so none of what he was doing until then was that special. But in 1907 he started experimenting a lot with African traditional mask-like paintings from which he started abstracting (while still retaining the mask-like appearance) for years and then all of a sudden "coincidentally" he started doing exercises in abstract art and what would you know he is suddenly famous. Like his cubist career can be seen separate from the rest of his career but the influence is very real. Even some of his later works like 'girl before a mirror' and 'portrait of Dora Maar' had clear influence from the aforementioned. Moreover he was shot into stardom because of his works around 1907 (which had clear African cultural influence). In short it wouldn't have hurt him to acknowledge that. Also Picasso is a misgynistic dick. So there's that.
No ones trying to cancel Eminem, I don't know where millenials and gen X got this idea that gen Z didn't grow up on Eminem also. People make fun of his recent stuff being trash but that's about it
Seriously im so tired of it theyre fighting ghosts
I wish I wasn't surrounded by the folk that are trying to cancel Eminem. I haven't heard about it for a while but like 2-3 years ago it was a big thing in one of my more liberal friend groups because he was "homophobic and misogynistic"
@@annalivingtv hell yeah friend I also think things I haven't directly observed aren't real
I tried to camcel eminem once😧
@@keoniramo7099they’re not trying to take anything from Em. His whole thing is ‘I’m not a good person.’ Recognizing he’s a jackass isn’t the same as trying to cancel him.
"I don't listen to hip hop cultural analysis much, but I really like F.D. Signifier"
nice one lmfao
FACTS
@@STARK0181oof OP was not trying to relate lmfao
I’m gonna ruin the joke by asking someone to explain this to me. Is this meant to say that FD is acting as an Eminem-like figure for hip hop cultural analysis? Like repackaging it for a specifically white audience- though this time without the white privilege factoring in. I can tell this joke has a point I just wanna be sure I understand it.
@@tikki2340 I mean even though Em is the most commercially successful rapper, you act like he's the only one who translated rap to a white audience.
The likes 50 cent, Lil Wayne, Kendrick Lamar, DMX also played a role in delivering Rao to white people.
As a "white white", I have to ask- Who the hell is putting raisins in potato salad? I know the joke, but have luckily never seen it in the wild
Chile there are white folks doing that out here. Hell I know white people who put actual corn kernels in cornbread. I pray for them both 😔🤣
It’s yummy 😢
@@osimiri7111 aw man don't hate on "can of creamed corn in the Jiffy mix" thats a low blow
Oh I've seen it, it's a real thing. These people are not southern, it's almost always mid-western white folks or northern white folks.
oh my god thank you when he mentioned it I was like "...am I living in a different reality from everyone else?"
Eminem says it himself, plain as day: “Though I’m not the first king of controversy, I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley, to do black music so selfishly, and use it to get myself wealthy. (Hey!) There's a concept that works, twenty million other white rappers emerge.”
Legendary line
Well said! Always rt in ya face isn't it? ( or the lyrics we 4get to really listen 2) 😒🤔?
He also has the whole song white America which is my favorite Eminem song and that's the song's main theme
Kenny Mason goes crazy I do confirm
@@bruhmomentmaker4979a lot ems fans are conservative but it drives them crazy that he’s full on democrat.
i became aware of the idea of the “white rapper” when i showed my very white, fox news watching dad the rap i was listening to, and he said that eminem is the only rapper he respects
😂
Unsuprisngly
I don't blame him. Eminem broke all his generational curses. All of them for Hailey.
Why are you styled like how we grew up as children ?
Your dad is just a casual who doesn’t know there are MANY amazing emcees of every race.
I'm thinking about Em’s acceptance speech at the 2003 Grammys where he named people like Masta Ace and KRS One as his influences which is probably the first and only time those artists have been so much as mentioned at the Grammys.
Yes! As KRS said in MCs Act Like They Don't Know "if you don't know me by now I doubt you'll ever know me. I never won a grammy, I won't win a Tony". Great line! :)
Yeah... And it's a damn shame too!!!
He always pays homage
@@df1phantom Not enough. This dude gets called, "The greatest rapper of all time". Eminem made rap FEEL safer for suburban audiences. That's his accomplishment, and nothing else. He certainly is not the greatest rapper ever. He isn't even in the top 50 for me... But I'm not from the right part of American culture so my opinions don't mean as much!😜
@KingKoopa1 I mean but his accomplishments are based on consumer. If our people from the og culture supported like they were supposed to it wouldn't be like that, because buying that album for 13 bucks wasn't a stretch. Even as a young teen I bought the albums of artists I supported
Bro… Gen Z is NOT cancelling Eminem! Thats a fake fight that Gen X/Millenials keep starting out of nowhere to be “antiwoke” and to call gen z snowflakes.. But we do NOT give a fuck 😭😭
Exactlyyy idk where tf this “cancelling” is coming from
@@cowboy44… Eminem
I’m a millennial and I don’t see what the big deal is about Eminem… I don’t see how he’s even included in the top 5 🤷🏾♀️
it all started because some girl said she didnt vibe with the new eminem album, but for some reason a bunch of gen x/millenial took that as a personal attack, and they've been yapping about it for a while. To me it seems like a bunch of people having a midlife crisis.
It’s not us it’s the X folks. We’re too busy throwing up over housing interest rates.
The Vanilla Ice section made me think about Iggy Azalea’s career. She seemed poised to be this big thing and her career never really went anywhere after her initial success. I also remember there was a lot of discourse at the time about her whiteness and the level of attention she received.
Will never forgive T.I for that one lol
She was pushed really hard to be a token as a white female rapper by the labels/industry in those early-mid 2010's. But the put on accent and the videos suggesting she lacked talent went viral. And when it came down to it, she really didn't have much of anything to say in her popular songs. Even though tons of other people didn't either, it felt worse with her because she was being pushed so hard on the media as like this great rapper when she was more realistically below average.
Facts . Thanks for reminding me.@@joelman1989
I still can't believe she had Playboi Cartis baby. Lol
She was awful. Not sure how she got popular to begin with
Nobody is trying to cancel Eminem. Just because people make fun of him doesn’t mean they’re trying to cancel him.
Nobody's making fun of him mate, and nobody's cancelling him..... because nobody can do either of those things
@@arkoarko9559well, you can always make fun of everyone. However, being cancelled doesn't exist.
@@arkoarko9559 well, it’s not like it’s early 2000 when he was just saying controversial things so people would react, so he could get more attention on himself. At this point, he says offensive things, but he’s so famous so nobody cares.
@@Buis25 yeah that’s true. It’s hard to cancel someone who has been in the business for so long. And people are no longer intimidated by him. at least not to the extent, they were back in the early 2000s.
fr its so funny to be suddenly reminded this dude is old as hell idk why they all think everyone's "trying to cancel eminem"
Mac was mentioned in the Control verse for a reason. He’s respected in hip hop cuz he kept true to it and put out quality music when the bullshit started taking over.
Yeah, I think FD just was out of the era and isn't aware of what Mac's overall influence is. Imo where FD falls short in this is that he's focused only on Mac Miller (and white artists in general) as a solo artist when his artistry encompasses more than his own discography.
Mac put on TDE, Rhapsody, Odd Future, Vince Staples, (and probably more if you listen to interviews) etc in a way that no one else was. This isn't to credit him with their success, but he could have stayed in the G-Eazy/Lil Dicky lane and probably made more money, but chose to branch out and give back to hip hop in a way that many artists don't. That's why he's celebrated by rap fans the way he is unlike most others are. He used his whiteness as a platform to more successfully elevate black artists in a way that no white rapper has done before or since (again not to take away from their greatness, but listen to the TDE boys and Vince talk about Mac and it's clear as day that he saw their potential before most others did)
Mac was a different type of hip hop artist, I found his creation of beats (like Tyler) just cemented him as a true creator, along with how his later tracks. he didn't use the genre to act out but to present his internal struggles but in a respectful way. If that makes sense.
@@TheMakaveli31don what do you mean by mac put on tde, vince staples and rapsody?
@@tokuyou3811 Specifically for Vince, Mac produced one of his first mixtapes and took him on tour as a supporting act in 2013.
I think most Hip-Hop fans would agree Mac deserves a lot of respect but the quality of his music doesn't completely explain the amount of recognition he received. If it did, Smino, Earl, and Noname would be just as famous.
"You fight fire with water, not fire - we don't fight racism with racism, but with solidarity." Fred Hampton
First book I read as a kid that really stuck with me was about Hampton and the Panthers. I was 13 maybe 14 and it lead me to reading the Autobiography of Malcom X. Which led me to more books about the civil rights, race in America, and the education there made me further understand that solidarity was the best thing I could offer my black friends. I can't understand what it is to be them. The same is true in reverse. But we can learn about one another, speak to one another with respect and understanding and love one another.
His critique of Mac Miller is spot on; the only point I think is missing is how well Mac describes and discusses his battle with depression and suicidal ideation. IMO that is the main reason so many people find him unique and exceptional.
Agreed but defo doesn't take away from his initial point. Geto Boys - Mind Playing Tricks On Me explores those very topics and came out in 1991
@@jordyjohnathan5123but when they did it it's primitive and level one
@@NogGonnaMakeIt i hope your joking
Yo he couldn’t be any more wrong😂. One thing is that he’s wrong cuz most ppl would say that 4 Your Eyez Only is one of Cole’s best. Second Mac just makes rlly great music regardless of his skin color if he were black he would be known as a rlly good artist and if anything if he were black he would probably get more credit for being as diverse as he was. His point is disingenuous and FD has to admit he’s just out of touch talking about him😂
@@NogGonnaMakeIt "primitive" do you hear yourself
I totally had to pause this with Vanilla Ice being interviewed by Arsenio Hall. As a makeup person, Ice had some of the best contoured makeup I've seen.
Check out "arsheerio paul" (sp?) Comedian paul scheer does that interview and a bunch of others almost shot for shot. It is strange and amusing.
hahah I thought the same. I was like, damn, who did that makeup pre-interview dayum.
Someone ask vanilla ice for his makeup artist
Same page w/everything being said here.
(as of ~5pm 25 April NYC/~9am 26April NZ LOL)
That contour was BEAT! 😂
I was so scared you were gonna go the whole video and not talk about Mac Miller. He was such a gem. He (like em) never had to try to push his way into black spaces/ rap cause he was genuinely authentic. Genuinely appreciated old school rap, and was always himself. Always. I miss him so much
He paid Lord Finesse 2 mil for the Nikes on my Feet sample and never made a big deal out of it.
Him and Kendrick Lamar would be a great duo
His death hit Pittsburgh like a fucking meteor. His posthumous album was so beautifully done and it’s one of my favorite albums of all time to this day, but I have to be careful when I listen to it because it can make me tear up.
He sucked
@@guyanomaly I don't feel like his death hit Pittsburgh nearly as much as it should've and he never got the level of love he should've. There's way too many people in pgh who define hip hop strictly as gangster rap & top 40 shit who have never paid attention to the type of music Mac made.
And I've never in my life seen a city w so many white dudes running around listening to gangster shit and trying to portray their skewed stereotypes with no understanding at all of hip hop culture or the cultures of poc
the message at the end about shouting out what you love about hiphop rather than feeding into the algorithm about what you hate really hit me hard
I come from the Hardcore (punk) and Metal scene. It's really interesting to me that you're saying rap is starting to die and everything is becoming rock, because we been saying the exact opposite and say rap is where it's at while rock is dying and stuck in the early 2000s and before.
Bro, fr. All I ever hear is how rock is dead metal is asleep and hardcore is stuck. We are all going to be taken over by mix tracks and hip hop.
I personally feel like rap is still at the forefront of music but people are getting tired of it and returning to older music as well as applying rock and other influences to rap, I listen to a lot of rap and the genre feels like it’s innovating and growing towards other genres way more than it was just a few years ago
I think Ice Spice is the harbinger of doom for rap. All hype, no substance. She's one of the biggest names in Rap right now & doesn't even have her own album. Total industry plant
soul glo?
@@Kapricorn.Musick nah your buggin
Sounds weird as hell but it just makes sense you're a dad- there's such a paternal energy from you. I really feel like I'm in the car with my dad listening to him talking about the good old days with this wise aura to it while I'm just in the passenger seat nodding along trying to soak it all in even when I don't understand it all the way
Lol thats how I felt with my dad when he played old jazz and mo town records in the Early 2000’s as a kid, made me do research and appreciate the art overall and I’m forever grateful for it.
This
This is intentionally divisive
Eminem booted the door open for shit-hop now we think Kendrick is the best😂
@@Newbie_neilin a world full of people mumbling and mostly rapping about women drugs and sex only, be grateful for kendrick. not only does he write his songs he's a lyrical genius. and all his beats are out of the usual (for example Wesley's theory and untitled 03)
you can't be shocked people like him, even if you don't like his songs 🤷
Eminem has been solid with the culture for decades, never spoke out against black people, stood for black causes, put on black artists exclusively, was put on by black artists honestly the fact that so many black people hate on him still annoys me, a lot of YT dudes are vultures no doubt but Em nah he stands on business
I REALLY enjoyed him calling every one of his influences out when he was inducted into the Rock Hall. It really showed where his allegiances are, and as someone who knew like, most of them... those were some heavy names.
@@QKingPhilly "druski voice"
He litearly made a diss track on black women. I'm not an anti Eminem gal, he's okay I generally like him. But he's not really this pillar of the community yall people think imo. Like he litearly gets points for doing the bare minimum because he's a white rapper, while black rappers have to go above and beyond or they face criticism
Lol he hate on many black ppl. What black cause has he fought for.? Also he embodied alot of the wrong problems with hip hop
Yeah he spent a lot of effort trying to erase a racist song he wrote about black women
He also profits from the culture without giving back to the vulnerable members of the community
Like, he has great PR, but the evidence is damning
Preface: I'm latino. I think Eminem's popularity also comes from him rapping about things relatable to everyone. Poverty, broken home, addiction, clawing your way to the top, etc.
Thats a good point, but if those topics are relatable, then many black rappers would have reached Eminem levels of international popularity yearsssss before Eminem, but they weren’t.
That’s been what black rappers have been rapping about since the beginning of the genre, no one had more to say about all of these exact topics than black rappers that came up in the crack epidemic. So, if they’re talking about the same things, the same pain, same suffering, the same dreams of clawing their way out into a better life, what’s the difference between Eminem and the hundreds of extremely skilled & talented black rappers that came before? I’ll save you some time, *he’s white* lol and we all know that historically in this country (although this seems to thankfully be slowly changing), black voices are treaded as so unimportant that we could be screaming “🗣️THERES A FIRE” in a crowded building and it won’t be until a white person confirms that they too have seen the fire that people stop looking at the us like we’re crazy & finally start to run out.
Therein lies the paradox of Eminem cause that’s not his fault, and I personally am a big fan as well, but without a doubt his whiteness was what propelled him into a good 95% his popularity/status with only the 5% remaining accounting for actual talent. That’s not to say he wasn’t talented, any real hip hop head that listens to Eminem can very clearly hear that he’s a student of the game and is for sure skillful and great at what he does, BUT had his skin been a little (a lot, actually 😂) less pale, his message would have been ignored & paid dust just like the black great rappers of that time.
@@TheWorld-MyOyster Well, that's why the "also" was there. Being white definitely helped, but it was a combination of that, the relatable topics he rapped about, and his desire to make it big rather than stay underground. The perfect storm, so to speak. Honestly, I don't blame him for going after his dream. There are way worse white people out there who just use black culture because they can. At least Eminem is actually from the hood.
I’m an aspiring white musician who is looking more into the Latin music scene ranging from cumbia batchata guaracha dembow and reggaeton pop i fear the same paradox but it seems to have a natural gatekeeper of having to learn Spanish to participate in those genres and I’ve done that so I think it forces you to be extremely passionate about those genres and cultures and I hope it doesn’t attract racist leeches
@@TheWorld-MyOyster It could also be the fact that you wouldn't get the shit beat out of you or ostracized for singing his lyrics word for word.
@@TheWorld-MyOyster Maybe Eminem became that popular globally because he's that good, and race has nothing to do with anything? cuz he's also popular with Latinos and other countries.
I think he’s drastically underestimating country music. Hip hop is massive but country is just as big and about as white as it gets. I know you can trace it and blues back to Son House but country has evolved from that into white people rap now. All the main lyrical themes are identical too: women, where you’re from, money, cars/trucks, relationships etc.
I think the reason Mac Miller is so beloved by people (white especially) is because of the reflection of his growth and evolution in his music. Through high school hangouts, wild partying days, burnout, and rediscovering life a lot of us grew up with his music growing up at the perfect time
but also we never would've had that if he wasn't white
I think Mac has never seemed like a culture vulture. He's grown into a rappers rapper who puts meticulous effort into his songs
Mac’s Larry Fisherman era saved him. Producing for Vince and hosting basically all of the L.A. music scene was very good for him. Blue Slide Park killed his momentum amongst serious rap fans and that’s when the Frat kids took to him in full. But he was smart enough to not go the way of Chris Webby and follow Asher’s path instead. Asher->Mac is pretty much a parallel to Lupe->Kendrick. The former is lyrically superior but the latter took it farther with more accessibility and playing nicer in the industry.
Mac Miller is a massive trend follower, and terrible at what he does.
@@Dead_Goatbait
@@otterdonnelly9959I am unsure what Asher Roth song would lead you to think he had better lyrics than Mac
As a Caribbean person who grew up in the 90s in Toronto I have to disagree with your assessment of Snow. He had personal and very close ties to the Jamaican community in Scarborough. Snow grew up with many Jamaican friends in his apartment building and learned to speak patois authentically. I know people who grew up with him and can confirm this.
That's exactly what MdotR is going thru now
Snow grew up in housing in North York near Fairview Mall Toronto . He surrounded himself with the culture and imitated ( embraced )very well . The real reggae artist of the time was Whitey Don . Anybody of that time knows Whitey Don lived the life of a Jamaican in Toronto but Snow switched based on crowd . I’m somebody from the time and grew up around the scene . He’s right .
Absolutely not 😂
I agree, I grew up in Etobicoke, the man did a lot for the community here. Not many Americans know that the projects in Toronto are very mixed, racially.
My thoughts exactly
It’s honestly disrespectful to not bother researching his life
“Irish Canadian” is an disappointing, reductive way to describe Snow
What I loved about Mac was that he carved out his own space but never TOOK up space. He was always cognizant of his place in the culture & wanted to give back to it instead of eat off it. Most real hip hip lovers appreciate him most for that.
I feel like you’re missing the point of the video. Max Miller wasn’t TRYING to take up space, and yet he still did because he’s white
Real
What I respect about him is he managed to hit Ariana Grande. And that's it, to me his music was average at best..
@@MAtRiXAgEnTFoXMuLDeRwhat a thoughtful opinion lmao
People keep saying this basically missing many points made in the video, this world is cursed.
Working at a record shop, I heard "I don't like rap, but Eminem is good" a billion times!
em is still good, doesn't matter if you like rap or not
"the new ice cube, motherfuckers hate to like you"
i know what you mean, i want to see more about why though specifically
Yeah and they're all either wearing Carhartt or nightmare before Christmas hoodie. I moved from Minneapolis to rural michigan. It's f*****
thats crazy bro you mean people might like a specific artist and his eccentric music over generic shitty rap songs that all have the same gimmick? you must be really smart
The samething was said about Elvis and Rock n roll. The names change but the game is the same
I'm a middle income black man from Jamaica. I grew up listening to Nirvana, Rage, Nails and Pearl Jam on one side, Wu Tang, The Firm, Outcast, Dirty South (No Limit, Trick Daddy, Cash Money, etc) Bad Boy and Death Row. As a third generation Cuban, I also vibed to a ton of Latin Music.
I say all this to add that many people tell me that I am not "black" because of my middle income, multi-cultural upbringing. I liked "The Heist", I loved "I love College", I like Eminem.
I hate when ppl say things like "you're not black" because you like what you like. Don't want to be classed in a stereotype but still want to call others "not black" because you like something outside outside whatever. Bro keep being you and music and all art forms are to be enjoyed
Someone else understands the struggle. You just described my upbringing exactly! Too white for black people, to black for white people.
Come on!!!! this narrative is so drained 😑
I'm a middle aged working class white/latina woman and mother and I have to say I could have written your comment with the exception The Firm and Dirty South! Even the down to what I listened to while I worked my way through community college!🤣❤️
What did your comment add to this discourse? Like that sucks and all bro, I can relate, but that has nothing to do with this conversation. This is about white people in the African-American diaspora of hip-hop. Your comment did not add to that. It was more self-serving therapy. And honestly, I suggest you make a video about it. Not even me trying to talk shit. I think your perspective is something that should be added into the diaspora. And being 25 right now and black there’s a lot more black alternative music, rock ‘n’ roll rock grunge, and those people are making it black, even though it was already black by history. I think you should look into these artists because it would be therapeutic to see yourself as a rockstar all love, bro.
We heavily disagree on the quality of some Eminem albums !!
Something you might not know: Big L was a huge influence on Mac, he talked about him all the time while he was alive and how much he loved him.
Back in 2009 he would regularly mention that j coles the warmup was an album he went to regularly for emotional support. He also gave a lot of people a push they really needed to break into the industry ( Vince staples, chance the rapper being the biggest names I can think of, but there’s many others)
Big L was an insperation to em aswell, on Ems earlier track infinite you can hear his punchlines sounding like L.
Masta ace was also an inspiration for Em.
Schoolboy Q
Big L and Mac's influence on Vince Staples is soooo real tho. He's my current favorite and Ramona Park was my top on Spotify Wrapped this year. Straight up couldn't stop listening to it.
@@MadMaximothat video of q and mac miller playing laser tag and baseball when mac was in a bad spot mentally is one of my fav ever hip hop related videos, it's so funny. love q, one of the most likeable rappers
Rapsody too
I think ending the video with the message of showing love to the artists we respect rather then giving artists we dislike more negative attention is a great way to finish the topic.
Btw, to anybody who wants another great rapper to listen to, Black Thought has a probably one of the most amazing discographies I’ve ever heard. If you like rappers with meaningful bars and a smooth sound then you’ll love Black Thought’s music.
Black Thoughts freestyle on funk flex is genuinely unbelievable, such an incredible talent.
@@mackieincsouthseafr!! He spit a whole college education worth of knowledge in that 10 minutes
@@spencerhinds2803 actually mind blowing stuff huh, truly a master of the craft!
@@mackieincsouthsea do you prefer his work with the roots or his new solo material?
Black Thought has been in my forever 5 MCs FOR YEARS! His freestyles are next level and unmatched!
"what is german food?"
bro what? anything that looks like a german word... Bratwurst, Pretzel, Schnitzel, ....beers, sauerkraut, cream cheese, REAL potato salad... not that raisin shit, strudel..
and then don't even get me started on food influenced by Germany (hot dogs and hamburgers in general and german chocolate cake).
The point I feel like he's making is that there isn't a lot of non-Americanized German food in America. Sure you can get a hamburger, but probably wouldn't call McDonald's a German restaurant.
I think that's a silly point to make because almost every type of food we have here is Americanized. I can't think of any type of cultural food that's common here that isn't Americanized. By the way some of the most consumed food items in America are classic German food--BEER. The name Budweiser is incredibly German. I agree with lots of the points that he makes but it's frustrating to listen to people make condescending broad strokes about white people.
@@mattd.8775wait how is budweiser german?
@@azrasdc696You can guess by how it’s spelled if you know some German. Google it.
@@azrasdc696Do…do you just not know anything about German? Have you never seen the language before? Budweiser couldn’t be a more German name. It’s owned by the parent company Anheuser-Busch. An even more German named company lol
nah the MF DOOM first appearance got me lol, that brother was really everywhere 😂
Gen X Rapper
That dude really was your favorite rapper's favorite rapper. Literally any artist that raps that I've looked up beyond the music cites MF DOOM as an inspiration. We lost a real one to COVID.
I think that much of this would have happened regardless of eminem. I grew up in a white rural community and many kids were not into eminem at all but were into Lil Wayne. I think the acceptance of black music came with the beginning of increasing normalization of some aspects of black culture among even entirely white communities with no other black or urban influence aside from media.
It happens with all cultures of all things. If it becomes popular, ppl everywhere will want to do it too. Its cultural appreciation not appropriation. Gatekeeping is wrong
@@Pyramanager idk that gatekeeping is inherently wrong, but you’re right about the appreciation thing for sure
@@PyramanagerExactly
People criticize Em for that when he gives credit to all the founders of rap more than everyone else.
@@PyramanagerThey own the industry so no one can "gatekeep" anyways
"What's German food?"
Me (a German): Beer?
Beer isn't German though 😂 The tradition comes from ancient Sumerians and was then spread through Europe by Germanic and Celtic tribes.... but the early Germanic tribes are not the same thing as the modern German country 🤔
@@TheKatriinaThat's... not true? Beer predates civilization. There's evidence of very primitive brewing equipment going back 13,000 years. That's like saying the ancient Egyptians invented the concept of clothing.
Germany does have specific types of beer that they invented.
Hamburger, Germany based on the sandwich. Bratwurst
@@Kharizmah Yeah these things are probably most common, but I would say that there isn't one real "national dish", but there are many different regional dishes, that vary a lot between the regions. I'm from a coal/steel region, so the dishes are mostly really cheap and rich, to be affordable and fill you up. They are often based on potatos, Bacon and Apples (because they're abundant) and a very special regional sausage.
Quiche
So. White dude here. Talking about black culture. Asterisks abound. So many asterisks. I'm a work in progress, everyone is.
I grew up inundated with punk culture. It was who I was, what I lived and breathed, along with Appalachian music like old time and bluegrass. Even these genres are genres that were co-opted from black people. Punk music in particular had a very explicit erasure of the originators of the genre who were black men in Detroit who didn't want the record industry to tell them they didn't belong in the rock and roll scene just because of the color of their skin. Taking it back further old time and bluegrass are both rooted in African roots music. It's been heartening watching black people step back into these genres and take the ownership of what those cultures should be the way they always should have been as the originators. For punk and ska, that's especially important given how white supremacists co-opted the musical origins almost immediately. Even the most iconic "white supremecist" symboligy (the skin-head) originates from factory owners demanding black workers shave their heads and other factory workers shaving their heads as an act of solidarity. I think the only truly "white" culture is flattening all culture into single homogeneous blobs of whiteness and nonwhiteness (even the term "white" itself is a form of erasure). Whiteness is ultimately a hatred of ANY culture, and then the flattening and erasure of that culture. We did it to ourselves first, and once we had no more, we came for everyone else.
I don't even really know what we correctly do to stay in our lane, or stay off the road for genres we haven't already co-opted. I think the best advice I have is "make art at home", you know? Like instead of just consuming pre-packaged culture that was manufactured for you by industrial culture factories (be that record companies, streaming companies, movie studios, publishing companies), look around your neighborhoods for what's going on. Go out in your own streets and start doing unapproved, unauthorized, outsider art. You can start by writing messages with sidewalk chalk on your roads or on your sidewalks. You can go to the art supply store get some water colors, and just draw and paint things. Don't self edit. Don't think about if anyone else will accept your art. That's not what matters about art. That's not what any of the great artists your prepackaged culture manages to find and polish set out to do (though it is what some of the unscrupulous artists do). Go to soundcloud and bandcamp and try to find something weird. I probably don't recommend youtube or spotify so much since the algorithmic overlords ply so much pressure there about what does and doesn't get seen, and most importantly, whatever you do, when you run across a piece of art that isn't for you, unless it's promoting a harmful ideology, don't tear it down.
Because like... Here's the thing. Capitalism fosters a culture of emptiness that is harming you. In a pre-industrial society your ancestors made music. They ate homemade meals. They danced. And you know? They weren't any better at dancing or singing than you were. They were just as clumsy and awkward and gangly and off key as you are now, but they didn't allow themselves to be bothered by any of these things because the point wasn't to establish themselves at the top of the hierarchical record industry, or be the best dancer. The point was just to... Vibe with it, ya know?
Anyway. This comment was way ramblier than I meant it to be and went a much different place than I originally meant to start. But if nothing else, I want people to realize the drive to push people out of genres is ancient. Even if hiphop in its current form dies from frat rappers killing it, street culture will bring about a new form of art that represents an attempt to throw off the yoke of capitalism, again, just like it's been for at least 400 years. Just maybe this time, show some class solidarity and *DON'T* commercialize the shit out of it to make it safe for your own consumption and go straight to the source. Listen without encroaching, and if you do find yourself moved to lend your voice, have some sense, and put your voice at the backs of the people who are pushing the culture of shedding the opressers instead of trying to put yourself in the limelight, mmkay? Not every musical genre needs to be centered around the ruling classes and the ethnic groups who get their special treatment.
Damn, that was good. As a white dude who went to a majority black high school and rapped in cyphers, I definitely got a benefit from being the only white guy there. I was never that good and yet really good rappers would include me and not trash me half as hard as black people that were better than me when I would flop. Never really knew how to articulate what it was but that basketball analogy was spot on. This video was wildly cathartic for me lol
Bruh, the bball thing... I felt so much. I'm Black so I knew wtf it was , but held my tongue cuz the white boy gettin' props was my best friend and I didn't mind him gettin shine. ... to your point.
@@Merchantwun Felt it as well and felt it was fair.
What I wanted F.D. to get into though was the other end of this paradox.
When your Eminem, or say, JOKER, or Bird (cue Dennis Rodman racist rants), and peers won't acknowledge your quality and go from giving you a pass because your white to weaponizing it.
@@MerchantwunI make sure to let them know. Idc if they’re my best friend. 😂
from being in countless cyphers.. i can vouch for the Original Post
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 😆😆😆
As a black Eminem appreciater, I appreciate your take on this. I think he legit loved the art but I can definitely understand the type of doors his success opened for people didnt deserve it.
I'm sure you'd say the same if it was the other way around. "Yeah Tiger Woods was good but a lot of black golfers now get attention that they don't deserve." I'm sure you wouldn't say that is racist, would you? Also funny how the amount of new white hip hop fans he brought is often skipped. As a white person who listens to hip hop exclusively now because I found Em relatable when I was young - there are 100s of black artists I wouldn't know if it weren't for Em.
Ultimately, who 'deserves' success is not something you or me decide. Otherwise, I'd love to sit here and talk to you about all of the 'rappers' that can't even pronounce a sentence in English - plenty of them that are successful.
@@RandomNon-interestingguy Who are these black golfers though?
@user-er1fs3je4x where are all these black golfers taking over the game and exporting it to a majority culture that's changing that space?
@@RandomNon-interestingguy I mean the less talented not because they're white. Easy. I'm not your enemy so stop trying to force beef where there isn't any.
@@RandomNon-interestingguy At a 'certain' point, 'you' have to 'reign' in your use of "quotation marks". Especially if 'you' are going to criticize 'other' people's inability to speak 'English'.
Can I share an anecdote? I have a linguistics degree from a university outside the US, in a country with a fairly small black population, and not a lot of huge black rappers or musicians in general. I was part of a seminar where we had to give presentations on similarity and rhyming in linguistics, and one student chose to present a thorough analysis of rhyming in what he called "black music" (that's what some people here refer to as rap, hip-hop and R&B).
His entire presentation was (completely unironically) about Eminem.
That's it. That's the anecdote.
Makes sense, as he just pulled from the greatest example of the culture.
Lie to yourself, not us @@psychopompous3207
@@psychopompous3207 Rakim? MF Doom?
@@brinnd330 YOU know the answer. Are you high right now? The others you've named aren't even in OP's comment. Please stay on topic.
🤣
I still think Aesop and Jedi Mind Tricks need to be appreciated far more than Eminem does.
Thank you! People never talk about Aesop Rock or Jedi Mind Tricks or Kno from Cunninlynguists because of the lack of commercial playtime. EL P gets some mention and maybe Beastie Boys. Not all rap is hip hop and not all rappers are MCs but I think almost all MC's are in the category of hip hop whatever the color. Always considered hip hop to be to music what skateboarding is to sports. I hope you are well and take care
Eminem inspired an entire generation to say what's on your mind, express yourself, and to take your chance when you get it, to stand up for yourself and to fight back against bullies, and that being the weird and small kid doesnt mean you cant amout to anything. All the while being extremely witty, funny, and skilful at the same time. He's made people realise that it's okay to have childhood trauma or have intrusive thoughts. He helped people process these things. You don't have to be white to be able to learn or grow from his music, just like you don't have to be black to learn or grow from kendricks music. He's fought against censorship in this art form, which paved the way for others to express themselves in the way they need. On top of all of this, he showed nothing but love and respect for everyone that came before him and inspired him. He constantly shouts out these people in award acceptances, interviews and lyrics
This is true influence, and he gets very little credit for. Even in this video, he seems to think that nothing would be really different if em didn't come out or get big. Which is seriously ridiculous and honestly, disrespectful.
@@moist603 good morning, those are very valid points and I appreciate you making them. I thought about it quite a bit and I think I agree for the most part. Not entirely but for the most part I think you're right. And I'm not saying it's his fault the Jedi and Aesop don't get appreciated more. But as far as like rap skills go I think a certain amount of it is technique or style which is just basically people's opinion on which one's better but I do think on a skill level they are ignored but again that's not his fault that would be more of a critique of the industry or media in general. Radio stations Spotify that kind of thing.
Anyway I really thank you for your perspective. I hadn't considered a number of the things you said and I'm glad you said them because I feel like it gave me a new way to look at it.
Hope you are well and take care
This clarified literally everything for me. I grew up in a small town in the Balkans. In the USA I'd be definitely considered white. Allow me to share my perspective.
Hip Hop for me was the gate to the rebellious phase of young adolescence. I was probably the only kid in the town that tried to pass completely as a devoted rap fan. I wore my pants down for 4 years before I reluctantly started to listen to other music genres. I tried to present and make myself perceived as rap geek. In all honesty, I became obsessed with Eminem and in the beginning I was listening to him but soon I moved to local artists (in my country everybody was underground in the early '00's). It was through these local artists who mentioned artists like Wu Tang Clan and Public Enemy in their tracks that I found out about them.
Then, I had this realization that these artists were the real thing, so I decided to listen only to black rappers. I clearly remember my enthusiasm when I listened to Brother Ali for the first time and then the borderline disappointment that I had when I found out they were white. For me blackness proved the authenticity both of the music and the message in it. At the same time, my lived experience had nothing to do with the story-telling of my favorite artists.
When eventually grew out of my self-imposed limits in music, I felt more relaxed and I decided to just enjoy the music based on its merit. This eventually led me to an overwhelmingly black playlist, but that's probably because their music is just better.
What sealed the issue was a road trip I took with a friend in the Southern States ten years ago, my only visit in the USA. It was eye-opening. Within three days on the road I had realized that hip hop wasn't just an aesthetic product among others that I could pick up from a shelf. It was a genuine popular music, meaning a people's music. It was the equivalent of my country's popular music, that is the music that emerged out of the self-expression of the workers and the most oppressed people of the society. I realized that it's an actual living thing that speaks to the needs and desires of millions of a specific people that find in it something that I as a white-skinned, non-american, european, non-poor person would never feel it in that way.
Beside my own psychological issues, I treated hip hop as a predominantly aesthetic product. I consumed the music and performed the culture as music collector. I didn't wait for my local rapper to drop his new EP; I scanned the 90's catalogue for the best tracks based on music reviews. I hadn't (and I couldn't have) any clue about the social and political context that produced this art, let alone the perspective of a black person that lived through that decade.
Now I am 34 and every year my spotify wrapped is dominated by Hip Hop. I still discover some new artists but since I am old my interest in music has decreased enormously compared to my teenage years. But this is the just result of being obsessed a genre in your teen's. This genre will always be your favorite one. For me this is Rap.
Incidentally, I turned out leftist and fully in support of BLM when it comes to US politics. But I know that this would have happened regardless of my fascination with a specific part of american black culture.
After this video I can confidently say that understand a good part of how the consumption of Black culture served my own needs in the search of identity. This was done away and without my participation in any actual black social setting. So, if this post serves a purpose is maybe to give another way a non-black person can benefit from black culture in a self-centered way.
This is an interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for your perspective my friend
I really enjoyed this comment and as a fellow Balkan person can understand the perspective. Great read!
where are you from?
Brother Ali isn't white, he's an albino
Came for El-P, stayed for the Jack Harlow slander
El-P is the fucking man!
God Macklemore winning that award over Kendrick still boils my blood
I don't remember how good kendrick is... but from memory, the 3 rappers, drake, jcole and kendrick... drake has clever lyrics but raps slow, kendrick raps fast bust his lyrics are not clever, and jcole is somewhere in between, faster than drake but not as fast as kendrick, and smarter than kendrick, but not as smart as drake... so it's reasonable that to the grammys, kendrick was too basic for them, whilst macklemore was more innovative
@ItsameAlex Kendrick has some of the most clever rhyme schemes I've ever heard. he won a pulitzer prize for DAMN.
@@ItsameAlex😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 delete
you dont know rap @@ItsameAlex
@@chuck569469 i just remember listening to kendrick and thinking he's not as clever as drake
people really out here acting like the beastie boys didn't pave the way for em.
For sure in terms of rap getting mainstream appeal for white people, sure. But I do not think Beastie Boys were a musical influence for Eminem AT ALL. Emimen wanted to be like Nas, Rakim and K.R.S One. Just listen to Infinite.
As a 35+yo white man from the US Midwest, I can tell you that I've never heard of raisins in potato salad.
he made that shit up fr
Yeah I don't think this dude knows many white people, dude comes off a lil prejudice. Could just call people rappers instead of white rappers or black rappers.
Did you even watch the video? Rap is a traditionally black space and genre.. any person that is talking about the history of white musicians in a black dominated genre such as rap needs to say "white" or "black". And if words like that scare you in this video, I implore you to do some soul searching on why that is because you're just being sensitive for no reason. Lock in intellectually bro, it's 2024, too late to be making comments like this unironically.
@jawoncurry9022 lock in intellectually bro... lebron, jordan, and kobe can never be considered the best since basketball was created and played by white men. Black men came along and did it better. Just like Eminem came along and blew the rap world into outer space... not his fault he sells records... he was a respected battle rapper in racially divided Detroit. Grow up man, that white boy is lyrically superior to 99% of rappers regardless of skin color.
@@LMajorDegs bro i can tell you don’t read cause you just said a bunch of nothing. A better point would have been Luka being the best player in the NBA rn (which is a predominantly black league). No one said it’s not possible. When did I ever say Eminem wasn’t a good rapper, I’m a fan of some Eminem. You’re just projecting 💀💀 and btw I can name 5 rappers off the DOME that have received commercial success and universally rival Eminem. Please don’t try to talk music and sports with me you’re going to lose every time.
I think that jazz had a similar problem in the 1950s and '60s. People like Stan Getz, Bill Evans, Paul Desmond, Dave Brubeck, Chet Baker, and more, although great musicians with respect for the culture, were massive commercial successes not because of their musicianship, but because they were white and appealed to a white audience.
It's kinda just music in general that has this issue
Makes me think of Shakatak
@@nomadnuka716 That’s true, but that’s because popular music is now black music. I mentioned jazz specifically because it’s an intrinsically black American art form that now has a reputation for being white and pretentious.
It’s more white people in America so of course there gonna be more support for a white artists it’s simple math lol
@@krissv3ctor512 does it tho?
This video actually made me respect Fantanos opinion more. He manages to remove highly biased aspects of music and contextualizes it as objectively as he can. Aka he doesn’t compare Mac miller to other white rappers or even other hip hop artist but to the music as a whole. Getting an 8 is impressive considering he probably would’ve gave Beethoven a lower rating for not being as groundbreaking as Mozart was before him
I agree, mostly, I think that youtuber is quite biased, (he called the Eminem Show mid) and then proceeded to call every other white rapper after Eminem... white. and while I can't lie, a lot of them are corny, I do think that he should've kept his opinion a lot less biased. but for Fantano, he just only likes really weird, niche music, and calls almost everything mid/bad, like, he rated Ice Spice and Lil pump above Andre 3000's sixteen verse.
As a big Mac fan imma weigh in on why I believe he deserves his legacy. Mac's instrumentals are fantastic and his bars are underrated (Ex. Faces) but I agree that he didn't reinvent the wheel. There are other artists with less notoriety who surpass him on one or both fronts. But what Mac did better than almost any other MUSICIAN is packaging his whole self into his music. It's a seamless blend of humor, fun, love, depression, passion, apathy, guilt, and shame that unmistakably humanizes his catalog. Listening to his mountain of unreleased songs on youtube literally feels like hanging out with a friend. And yes, it's not really targeted towards older people, but as a younger consumer the honesty in his music validated some of my feelings, guilty pleasures, and fears literally for the first time in my life. I believe it's his honesty that caused the impact we still see today. Undoubtedly, his whiteness helped him immensely in the acquisition of an audience, but his humanity retained it. He cannot be swapped out interchangeably with any other artist because his shit's too potently distinct once you get to know it. It's not a lotta other artists who accurately encapsulate the intricacies of day-to-day life. His music's rarely on a big scale.
that being said, I am white and this undoubtedly factors immensely in the way I relate to his art. So, if anyone else has other artists they feel the same way about, please share below! I'd love to befriend other artists the way I befriended Mac Miller.
Super well worded, and I’d like to add: Mac also GROWS so much over the course of his discography. FD mentions this a little when discussing how he moved out of his “frat boy era”, but going from KIDS, to Faces, to circles really is like watching Mac grow up. You see him become more introspective, sentimental, loving, and thoughtful while still being Mac. This is especially impactful for a large part of his fanbase who were growing alongside him while his music evolved.
@@Oliver_but_digital His journey is actually mirrored very well by Tyler the Creator. They both got their start in the same space and had similar growth and acclaim upon reaching a more matured and variable music. I think Mac Miller's production gives him a lot of credibility but I think looking at Tyler shows how fans reward growth, especially as they grow with the artist.
I’m also a Big Mac fan, I love me some burgers
@@Purriah😑😂
There is a reason this part of the video is getting a lot of comments pointing out the Mac Miller opinion being off while the rest seem to agree with everything else. This was just FD finding a way to be “factual” about not liking Mac. It’s just so when people say “oh you don’t like Mac Miller?” He can point and go “well because of whiteness blah blah blah” and not seem like an old head who just doesn’t like newer music because what he was saying NO ONE says. No one legit has Mac Miller as the best rapper of all time just their favorite and people in the community don’t like that people have favorites who differ from who is objectively better so they feel the need to “prove” your opinion wrong because you dare say you like an artist music more than what the general consensus of who the best is. It’s annoying.
The Beatles, Elvis and Eminem didn't just appeal to white audiences. They appealed to international audiences (arguably still as a consequence of their whiteness).
Eminem had traction in Morrocco, Japan, India... that other artists didn't. Same for The Beatles and Elvis. I feel like there's a bit to unpack there. Making music palatable for "white" audiences also includes a markets very much not white.
Honestly, from what i know,black people in general are not that much into the Beatles.
They appealed to international audiences singing (or rapping) Black-influenced music. The Beatles spoke on their musical influences. Elvis was a culture vulture in the worst kind of way.
You were 100% right on the battlerap stuff. NEVER let Mook go first, and never let him battle you in new york. Bro literally controls the crowd and can just take rounds from you out of nowhere.
That was an uphill fight for Solomon that night. Plus it was 5 rounds.
Yeah I've never seen someone get eaten alive so viciously, it was like a whale swallowing krill
@@fnytnqsladcgqlefzcqxlzlcgj9220gotta check out Canibus getting gagged, choked, beaten to death and revive again and then hung out like Sunday laundry in HIS battle rap clips. Canibus vs Dizaster
@@fanrosefabrose9457 sure I'll check it out now lol
Edit: Holy shit... That is just... Wow. Like when you watch a video of someone getting like industrially smashed, he's just flopping around after being dragged through a machine like "what just happened" still trying to bring a notebook to a rap battle afterwards like his organs hanging out and shit
Shout out to Rage Against The Machine. A rock, funk, hip-hop fusion with a very focused and important message. They spoke to things like the wealth divide, corrupt political and corporate structures, racial inequality, police brutality and so much more. Almost a protest movement. Extremely talented artists and band who at the time where embraced by the white rock community but ironically where more conscious level hip hop than they were rock music. For the life of me, I dunno why they didn't get play on hip hop stations. At least in my opinion. Their messaging for better or worse is still as relevant as ever.
the BE (before eminem) killed me LMAO
damn i typed this out before i finished the vid and u mentioned kenny mason and i fucking love him , metal wings has such an amazing mix of rap and metal and its so good
Time stamp?
The only thing I found a little lacking was no mention of MTV and its influence on white suburban music tastes. You mentioned radio, and that was truth when alternative music stations in my area absolutely bumped Eminem right from the word "Hi", but music videos played so much more of a role than radio, IMO.
I have loving memories of Yo! MTV Raps!, the Fat Boys, Run DMC (literally "Run DET" shirts are still everywhere here in Detroit to this day), and watching Vanilla Ice dance didn't come from seeing him live, nor did watching Third Bass beat him down in effigy using pimp canes. Eminem's early videos showcased an irreverence that enhanced his lyrics, and the look of NWA's "Straight Outta Compton" was so instantly iconic Chris Rock could go "Straight Outta Locash" with instant recognition of the parody.
Also, in the middle of the rap-rock era, the popularity of soundtracks like "Judgment Night" and "Last Action Hero" exposed a lot of kids that just wanted to see a movie with Denis Leary or Arnold to groups like Onyx and Fishbone and Cyprus Hill.
Also, not one mention of Kid Rock in his earliest incarnation as a fake street rapper? He was vile from Day One and the only people pumping his music were cruising Gratiot looking for hookups, but he parlayed that and his whiteness into the only reason anyone even talks about him today.
I rarely wish video essays were longer but I kinda do with this one, unless maybe a sequel talking specifically about video and its influence on that scene?
Loved the essay, just want your take on those couple things. Kudos.
Man my first memory of Eminem was that he was in Total Request Live and he commented on an artist being presented along the lines of "I like them, they keep it real" and Carson Daly goes and ask him "can you explain what that means, keeping it real?" and man the look Eminem gave him was so annoyed.
I was expecting a kid rock mention too. He’s garbage and the way he screwed over all the people that took him in and helped him early on is so disgusting.
@@HotStrangeKid Rock rascist p.o.s. 💩 ✊🏻 🇩🇪 🇨🇿 Looked for a confedrate flag emoji but, surprisingly, couldn't find one ?! Lol... 🙏🏻🙂👍🏻
Videos are not more important than RADIO. 😅😅😅😅 Wtf do you think it all started??!
CB4!
There’s a great quote used frequently in the podcast Binchtopia. “Bitches hate nuance” Basically it means that people don’t like the discomfort of nuanced topics. They want it cut and dry and it never is. You should feel comfortable making everyone a little uncomfortable by challenging their assumptions.
So long as you creating that discomfort are comfortable with people challenging your views in return and making you feel the same slight discomfort as well, i think that's an excellent rule to live by
Exactly the problem on the internet is that there is no nuance
When it comes to race people only make blanket statements
“White people are this way and black people are that way” as if all white people are the same and all black people are the same”
He's missing tons of nuanced here, to the point I'm getting irritated enough to comment
@@saratongel You can't expect all the nuance from one source, FD has his biases and angles and with them he adds a valuable perspective. It doesn't need to be perfect and any one individual cannot embody the entire cultural discourse.
I honestly don't get it. I find nuance comforting. Removes the pressure to always be perfect without removing the drive to do better.
Brother. When you got to Milkbone, I had to pause the video, walk to my office, and check my records. It has been DECADES since Milkbone has crossed my mind.
Eminem is a great example of great artist with terrible fan base
i don't like ememin he's always felt fake and forced by the media and i'm white
I agree with this as an Eminem fan.
Agreed. But Eminem still made some very bad songs
Eminem to me is like kobe: very skilled but his fans tends to ignore his shortcomings
@@emmanuelmondesir sure, no argument there but they also tend to be like Luka fans. When their name is protected, they love to say things like “you are all just mad that the greatest rapper ever is white” which is untrue in both ways. Nobody’s mad about that and also he’s not the greatest rapper ever.
I almost went to bed, and left the last 30 minutes for the morning… but that last 20 minutes with the unraveling of Mac Millers legacy really hit me hard.
I appreciate you and your work
For me, Eminem led me to finding old school rap (Naughty by Nature, Mob Deep, Wu-Tang Clan, Nas) and finding more artists and an appreciation of the art style.
You can see immediately how heavily his music video style is inspired by the surreal, vivid antics of any classic Busta Rhymes video
That's great! Unfortunately, that didn't happen with a huge section of his fanbase.
😂Yeah, because his fan base was already well initiated by the classics hip hop like EPMD or Do or die or Nas or Run DMC . There was radio played real rap before Eminem 😂 and Eminem fans knew that already before Eminem came out.
There's a way better gangster rapper that was white that came out strong with his first album,totally independent and self produced and he was better than Dr.Dre and Eminem combined, he was Eminem and Dr. Dre combined with the beats and results in his rap.
His name was Woodie and his first album is call "Yoc influenced" and it kicked off the marriages of killer raps with even more killer beats !
Look up woodie, white as heck ! Best that ever did it !
em was not a gangster rapper andyou just mentioned bout every damn rapper on the east coast around the time of dre and nwa and the chronic. of course radio is gonna be playing nas in new york and do or die in chicago, the west coast was coming at the birthplace of rap during this time and em happened to be riding with the most famous or infam,ous of them after dre witnessed him killing the battlerap game in detroit. his fanbas (mostly)was not listening to the east coast artists you just named lol there was real animosity for east coast in the west in the 90s and the west was tryin to hear shit that was gangsta or just straight up wild/vile@@auntjenifer7774
I think thats great, but the bigger question should be, why didn't you hear about any of those guys first? They were all making music before Em.
If you have to think about why you never heard of them first, than you understand the problem with the Industry and the inherent bias of mainstream media towards white people.
Calling em discography mid is crazy disrespectful 🤦🏾♂️
I mean, what did you expect him to say? This guy is very compelling and I really like his essays, but there’s no way in hell such a deeply entrenched Afrocentric thinker would admit that Eminem is one of the best to ever do it. And CONTINUES to be!
Even if you have them at the very bottom of your top 10 list, that still makes him one of the best ever. Not having him there at all is mad, disrespectful to the genre and what constitutes quality within the genre.
I think Em is a probably top 5 rapper in terms of his lyrical and technical abilities, however I’m not into his discography that much either.
Discography includes production, song arrangements etc. I’m not into a lot of his albums but I do love some of his songs. So, I see where he is coming from.
@@Chessbox09 interesting pov
It’s weird to have someone really go at appropriation and talking about the struggle of having Art recognized because of skin, then dismiss Eminem’s discography because he’s white and feel that popularity isn’t deserved because he’s white. The line that Eminems music is a bunch of songs that “are about him murdering his girlfriend and mom or whatever” is wild, same energy as people who say “I don’t like rap because it’s just about violence and guns or whatever”. I don’t think the issue is that Eminem only connects with white people because they are white, Eminem makes his own style of rap music, Eminem music is “Eminem” he’s doing his own thing, and while there are certainly people who like him because he is white, I’d say the bigger issue is that a lot of people, of all races, might like what he’s doing, and not recognize that what he’s doing with it is very different, so when they branch out and it’s not that, they don’t like it.
@@nobb1980 well said
Being German and Irish…you’re not wrong, lol. It was learning about my family’s background in school in the 2000’s that really changed my views. Learning about “no Irish need apply” signs, because we’re apparently lazy, drunken, untrustworthy. I would read this in my history book, then turn on the tv and hear a right wing politicians arguing how group xyz is bad because they are “lazy, addicted, untrustworthy”…hmmm.
Provide a specifc quote from the last 20 years where a right wing political explicitly calls any race "lazy, addicted, untrustworthy". Time to escape the mind virus
They're right about Irish tho
@@taxevasion4870go back thru the racist time machine you just came out of
@@taxevasion4870 Ok bigot 😂
The book "How the Irish Became White" actually goes into this history in almost exhausting detail. The book "Paddywhacked" touches the same subject, just more through the lens of laws and legal punishments.
It's wild and why I'm really tired of this sideshow. There nothing new under the sun, it's just the targets that keep getting shifted onto new backs for the same old reasons.
Finally someone who addressed Em and Mac with the nuance they deserve. You articulated the argument with the precision and tact I’ve come to know and love you for👌🏿
I’m white, and I 100% agree. Finally someone that can show both worlds without hate, and showing that they do have links, they have their own story, but sometimes they do toutch. And Em is just, one of a kind. And thank Dr Dre for giving him to the world and perfecting his art.
@@alexam6959 or you can all focus on real problems and real issues without dissecting the minutiae of non-existent issues. There's a thought.
@@KyarrixIf you dont think it's important, why are you here? Lol
@@KyarrixWhat are real problems to you, and what are you doing right now to solve them?
@@Kyarrix”can we talk about the political and economic state of the world, right now?”
I don’t know if you knew or not but Eminem also challenged his white audience through “White America”, he spends a good amount of time on the track speaking about how he rose to prominence because of how he looked and how he was criticized of how he influenced white youth, whereas the white community would not care about this if he was black.
Besides that minor thing, you’ve brought a good amount of stuff that I’ve been thinking about and brought them to a more articulate level, this was a nice video as always!
A bunch didn't know he was White at first, like Vanilla Ice.
And who knows how well he'd do if he wasn't backed by Dr Dre. Dre had his beats, and gave him the clout.
am I the only one who doesn't care what race a musician is? I feel like this whole topic is way overblown. Nobody owns art, least of all a race... jesus. There's a lot of artists who I wasn't aware what their race was until after I liked them.
@moonasha But it always seems one-sided. Bcse it's easy to say that when ur not the creator. But everything I create is being cannibal ized and I'm never getting the credit. Also there are 2 sides to rap. The ugliest side is being marketed to BP. Although they have a big wyt audience. When the N word is being repeated by WP
@@moonasha I find it weird too but I've noticed that americans always tend to make things about race or sex so I believe this is more of a cultural thing that happens in the US, they put a lot of emphasis on these social constructs.
The problem with Jack Harlow is actually more about marketing than anything, he was marketed as this white rapper that looked cute enough for all the girls to be like oh I like that one I want that one and then they would listen to his music the same way they did with boy bands back in the '90s. I love backstreet boys and NSYNC, but some of their less known tracks are less known for a reason. They're just kind of mid, but the hits, they hit like a grand slam. I feel like the same thing on a lesser level happened with Jack Harlow. Like he's a good dude and all but the music is really only okay. I only have like three of his songs ever on my liked songs list and that's not a lot for me because if I like an artist I really like an artist. One of those artists that I really appreciate and love is Mac Miller, I got into him after I got into Tyler the Creator during his flower boy era. No I'm not going to say that I was definitely a day one fan, I got into Mac about a year before he passed and I've been slowly going through his back catalog. I still think the original version of the star room is fantastic, for me growing up in choir and jazz choirs, the kids singing at the beginning that he then samples for the rest of the song illustrates exactly what Mac was to the culture. He was the newest generations through line from whiteness to be able to explore the influences he had himself. Because of Mac Miller and Tyler I got into tribe called quest, I got into MF DOOM etc. and I'm better for having those guys as my narrative through line to help me look back at the culture of hip hop and the history of hip hop and be able to appreciate music that came out with my brother was a kid like Tupac and DMX and guys like that. Basically the reason why you don't understand the appeal of Mac Miller is because you did not need him, and you also didn't necessarily need Tyler.
He's an industry approved mix of Li'l Dicky and G-Eazy.
Like both of them, he'll probably fall out of the general consciousness after his 18 months are over.
Literally all I know about Jack Harlow is that he had some meal with KFC. If that isn't the definition of marketing, I don't know what is.
@@NoodleMcGeeWell he’s been up since 2020 goin on 4 years now. He’s mid, but he sells.
@@NoodleMcGee I think what bothered me about Jack Harlow wasn't even Harlow himself, but more of the conversation surrounding him. There was clearly a vocal minority that was trying to give him the keys to the rap kingdom despite the fact that his music is very, very mid. His first album is basically just warmed over Drake tracks that not even Drake would put on his album. His second album is "better," but it really does show that Harlow has nothing going on for him other than being a White rapper.
Which is funny because boys band are just white washed RnB singers
I'm glad you called out that 'missed opportunity' - i experienced that as a teenager, and as everything broke apart as I got older, I thought the same thing. Funk, Hip-Hop, Ska, punk, metal...there was a point there where everything was in a pot and stirring and then...it just...spilled. Sad when you think about it.
That period in the late 90s and arguably all the way through the 2000s was a missed opportunity that ended with the massive commercialization of many of the things we love. Then began the era of California Gurls, SMH.
@@That1J1 it's so sad. I remember a time when it was like, you could listen to public enemy, NWA, run DMC, the beastie boys, a bunch of grunge bands, some alternative bands, ska, and it was a 'if you get it, you get it' sorta thing. Right? Am I remembering that right?
@@packrat-y7jremember the Vans Warped Tour and shows like that? The most diverse crowds and acts I’ve ever seen. It was an amazing time that we didn’t fully appreciate while we were in it.
@@faustopancake234 bingo. I remember going to one in the mid 00s and it just felt lame in comparison
@@packrat-y7j bruh, that reminds me of a funny story. I went to one a few years before it fell off. My friend and I actually kicked it with the Blackeyed Peas!
Do you remember when they started out as an underground hip-hop group before they sold all the way out? This day they were super humble and were so excited that we could quote their lyrics and shit. Will I. Am gave me a big ol’ hug and just kept dappin’ me up, like he was so happy to have fans, lol. We hung out for a good twenty minutes just chopping it up. They signed everything we had and gave us some free merch, still have some of it actually. They were really cool.
It’s just crazy and surreal to think about when you consider where they ended up. Doing the halftime show at the Super Bowl, having their shit on every commercial that existed for a good five year stretch. Sold out so hard that it’s low-key impressive. I remember seeing an interview where Will said “I got tired of keeping it real and being broke” and you know what? That’s kinda fair. At their height, they probably wouldn’t even acknowledge me, or maybe have security throw me out if I tried to say hi and drop the “remember when” on them.
Life is crazy.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling story, our convo just reminded me of that surreal shit. Hope you have a good one homie.
When I was in high school Eminem appealed to me because of the way he delivered his messages and the things he talked about. When Dre was talking about blunts, 40oz’s and bitches, Eminem was rapping about homosexuals and Vicodin. It was something new. There’s no denying that. And it was a comfort and excitement to see a white person make it in the rap game. Of course it was speaking to white people. At that time we desperately needed a hero in the rap game to represent us, because the black rappers were not repping us. Dre already admitted that his circle was racist about Marshall from the beginning. They didn’t want Dre to give him a spot.
Saying that Eminem only had one album that wasn’t just mid is a ridiculous take.
Yeah. Particularly when that album isn't even his best (The Eminem Show is a classic).
Meh eminem is pretty overrated to be fair
@@killtrump_666 Listen to Ems verse on Psychopath KIller and you'll realize he's not overrated.
@@evelynstenberg You realize that eminem’s type of rap isn’t everyone’s jam right? I couldn’t stand when he started angry yelling his lyrics in his later years. The SS LP/MM LP will always be my favorite albums from him.
Eminem is the rap equivalent of "loud is funny".
Videos like these are why I love finding culture on TH-cam. Thanks again for feeding the mind toward real conversations.
Seems more likely that Mack Miller had a young audience that he developed that liked him, and that propelled him forward, leading to his fame and wide reception. Music commentators tend to compare everything to the past, but are woefully unaware that most of the fans of new music are new people without even awareness of the past.
that's what I loved about Mac and Tyler growing up in retrospect. we were growing up and going thru phases simultaneously. Tyler once said he was uncancellable because by the time everyone was in outrage over what he did, he'd already grown and moved on
but that is those younger fans ignorance to propelthese artists to G.O.A.T status without knowing the background
@@onyxgothicc The question is what do the older fans of older musicians not realize they are ignorant about regarding even older music and how it led to their music?
8:32 I wanna see a whole video on this so badly. I think there used to be some writing about how colonialism created a “cultural dialogue” that has fallen out of favor now for obvious reasons, but like, I think there’s some truth to it. Peoples can’t be locked in the in the intense struggle of oppression and resistance to oppression without being influenced by each other.
There’s been a whole lot of important done illuminating the way oppressors steal and appropriate the culture of the oppressed (interesting but not widely know example: the banjo is descended from African instruments). But I really think there is more going on in the relationship than just appropriation, and it can be difficult to know how to explore cultural interaction between oppressor and oppressed, and dynamics beyond just appropriation, without giving ammunition to colonialist apologia.
I second this.
Look up kilts Khalfan
10:40 So I guess Serbians arent white then
If you haven't read it already, I recommend How to Hide an Empire: A History of the Greater United States, by Daniel Immerwahr. It discusses this dynamic a great deal.
Side note about The Dixie Chicks controversy: Even though country music audiences aren't entirely conservative, they are majority conservative, which is why they got fried for speaking out against Bush. There were other groups in the 90s explicitly calling out what would be considered "woke" causes today that similarly didn't have their careers erased - like Rage Against the Machine. Hell, Killing in the Name, a song explicitly condemning white supremacy in policing, got heavy radio play! Modern country audiences are, unfortunately, one of the worst audiences out there, to the point where they routinely erase black artists' contributions to the genre.
“They’re favorite rappers growing up we’re Eminem or maybe Drake and it shows”😭😭
I died
Kendrick Lamar's favourite rapper is Eminem. At least, he is top five for him. J Cole said the same. Danny Brown, etc. Does it show, aye?
@@grantkerr8298 It does show, and that's why they're some of the best rappers of the last decade. Kendrick has gone on record to show Eminem was one of his biggest influences and you can see it in both his lyricism, his cultural commentary and his ability to quickly and easily switch flows.
In the defense of Mac and his “one of the goats of this generation” :
Mac millers sound has developed incredibly over the course of his career. The way mac evolved as an artist is truly amazing and something we don’t see often in music in general, let alone hip hop. The differences and reimagining of hip hop while remaining relatively consistent with his flow/delivery. Mac millers transitioning from the frat boy rap, to watching movies, to good AM, to Divine feminine, to Circles (Ik there are multiple more albums, however these feel like reps for different eras) is incredible. Completely pushed the mold without feeling like he was appropriating from other artists.
Mac also every time he walked I. The studio didn’t have a guy like jay z on his side his whole career 😂😂. Every Mac album was put together like most of the childish gamibino project which are all only touched and produced by said artist. Mac’s lane was the generation of music makers that made everything themselves from the second you press play to the second it goes off. Which is why the attempts at fame didn’t work he was too concentrated on the music
Faces is one of my favorite albums of all time and the most underrated Mac album
@@yamean616 faces is an amazing album. I’m not really the type to promote unreleased music since I get its unreleased for a reason, but Macs project balloonerism was an incredible experience even after learning about it after circles. One of the more creative experimental projects in his catalog.
Also he played instruments lika a boss
Not gonna lie I like Mac more than Eminem. May not be as good lyrically but macs flow and beats are quite a bit better imo. Em mommy issue songs got old fast
Great video. Being from Detroit and being apart of the underground scene in the 90’s Eminem earned his bonafides honestly. None of us trusted him but he kept showing up and proving himself over and over again. His ascent was unique in that respect alone. Overall your analysis of his impact is spot on.
Did you ever get to see dilla back in those days?
@@BossDrSample absolutely. That underground scene was small and everyone came through the Shelter or the Hip Hop Shop.
@@Amazingprophet08 that is true , not from Detroit but the underground scene was something back in them days some of those guys use to come down to Cincinnati at the "pass the mic" shows and other Midwest underground scene.. overall enjoyed the content of this video .. stay safe and blessed 💯
"Ice, better known as Robert van Winkle" is such a subtle dig and I love it.
I don't even listen to rap (I'm an autistic metalhead and I'm just delving in there, not for other reasons) but I watch your videos as soon as they come out, and I'd like to think I've learnt a lot and have improved on my politics and morale as a result. Thank you!
Woo autistic here too. I have listened to rap, since the early 90s, obsessively and lovingly, and it taught me TONS. You should give it a try. (Also metalhead, techno DJ, junglist, jazzhead, etc etc)
That's a great thing about Signifier's videos. He finds these forgotten connections between American cultures.
Full on metalhead/punk here that loves a surprise hip hop track that grabs me.
@@tomchamberlain4329 I've tried. I don't dislike it. I just don't have the same compulsion to research and listen to it daily, and follow up with new releases.
@@septembergirl1993I’d recommend checking out UnityTX if you haven’t already. They’re a Rap/Metal band local to my city and as a fan of both genres I can’t get enough of their sound. Bang Shit and Cross Me are two to look into
@@septembergirl1993man u probably heard this before, i aint even gonna pretend like its niche. But seriously listen to to pimp a butterfly by kendrick. It took me some time to get into, i just started with the first 3 songs and listened until i liked them and went from there. Listen to them once a day and I promise if youre patient, it could genuinely get you into a whole new genre of music, and you will not regret that
As an aging millennial, I am so happy that I knew exactly who FD was talking about at 1:00. Marlon is the only white boy from this generation of fellow kids that has caught my ear.
Edit: just realized Eminem addresses the rock station issue specifically in the Way I Am.
"Pigeonholed into some poppy sensation, they got me rotating at rock and roll stations and I just do not got the patience to deal with these cocky Caucasians who think I'm some wigger who just tries to be black cause I talk with an accent and grab on my balls so they always keep asking the same fucking questions. What school did I go to what hood I grew up in" and goes on to say it was driving him crazy.
FD is right, he really didn't want the role, but see, white supremacist capitalism wasn't asking.
Yea the more he talked the more I thought “damn please tell me it’s Marlon, he has to know”
It’s the industry machine. It just needs a direction, then the gears churn and it connects money to potential money.
It’s part of the system, and it’s one of the parts that perpetuate racist actions. The white performer gets the glory while the machine churns to make more sales, and the black consumers stand by as someone’s taken their art and made money off it for themselves
As a mexican, I can definetely see the white-whashing of culture, and I can't help but think it happens on every level (music, food, art, even arquitecture), every time money can be involved, a white version of anything popular will emerge to be validated within all society. Nonetheless I think that this paradox is very linked with capitalism and I don't know that THAT philosophy is the best way to appreciate and consume art in general, I really feel that this paradox starts with the ability to profit from it once it becomes popular, because then it stops being about the music, it's about who sells it better.
As a biracial person hearing Logic get called "Spicy White" hurt me in a way I didn't think was possible.
It’s alright. I’m black, native and German who gets confused as being Latin and Dominican (okay so Latin is about 2 generations back but I digress). You know who you are…and you’re loved and can walk right into the cook out right? Sometimes you just side step it. You know when it’s meant to be mean and she it’s just uncle makin a joke, but he still loves you.
It’s possible he’s not aware that he’s biracial
@@jhar8975it’s not like logic ever talks about it
@@jhar8975That would be funny, since being biracial is something Logic brings up any chance he gets lol.
Logic is white passing. That's what makes him spicy white, not just being biracial.
I'm not here to belittle your feeling, but your response of "as a biracial person," as if Logic reflects all or even most biracial experiences, is a little telling; J. Cole was praised later in the video and he has a white parent. Let's not make FD's joke something it's not, i.e. slighting all biracial people. Edit: It was directed toward people who hold a certain amount of privilege because they're white passing
As an older white millennial who loves hip-hop and considers myself somewhat of a hip-hop nerd. This video is pretty much perfection. I personally don’t think you could have more thoughtfully put together, or laid it out any better than this. So huge kudos to you. I have a feeling this video is going to offend a lot of people, and good - It’s a slap of reality that’s needed for a lot of people. I’m really glad this video (although briefly) touched on how this is rooted in white supremacy, specifically through the exploitation of capitalism. I wish more creators touched on how capitalism basically ruins everything. So props for touching on that as well.
Side note: I low key kind of hate that I said “Marlon Craft” to myself, about 5 seconds into your explanation before you said his name lol. He is one of, if not the first white hip hop artist I’ve actually seen tackle subjects like you talked about in this video with any type of grace of nuance tho. Which leads me to believe he won’t actually be allowed to become a mega star for specifically bringing awareness, and addressing those systemic issues. Although, who knows. He is dope tho, and I am a fan. So I guess the paradox continues..
I can't speak to whether he'll become a megastar, I know past a certain point that's the industry club's call, but as rap and hiphop fans if we feel he deserves the recognition we can do our part to shout Marlon out constantly and try to get his work on people's minds by pointing them to him and hoping they'll in turn spread the word. Maybe he'll have a slice he may well deserve yet.
The thing is even of he does keep spreading the awareness and talking about these topics, unless he puts it into action it will feel like “white allyship” all over again.
Capitalism brought you every single artist you’ve ever loved.
@@roscomcfarland204 Capitalism as a function does not create art, it actually hinders art in multiple ways. So no, capitalism did not bring me a single artist I loved. In fact, the very act of capitalism denied me access to more artists I would have likely loved due to the financial limitations of purchasing more music.
@@xTobsecretx Doesn't that just circle back to the issue inherent with being a white rapper then? What exactly is he alone supposed to do to single handedly buck white supremacist capitalism and fully 100% clear the good ally vibe check? Just rap in a hole in the shire and never try to find success with his art? And besides, is not speaking truth to power in his verses to his audience, many of whom may well be white boys, especially as the privileged class where he has no obligation or benefit to do so, not direct action in and of itself? Or should he personally throw molotovs at 3k hangouts? We don't even know this guy, I can't speak one way or the other what action or lackthereof he takes as an ally. I'm not saying you have to like or accept the guy but I am genuinely curious what you would want him to do to pass your vibe check.
There are entirely too many stories of ppl within the industry speaking to Mac's character as well as his respect for the genre/musical talent. He went out of his way to avoid the white rapper box ppl are so quick to place him in, while regularly making space for those who either needed a hand or someone to guide them along the way in an industry where it's hard to trust someone (especially when they don't look/sound like you). Everyone just usually has their own agenda, but it has been made abundantly clear that he had love for the game and his peers, and it was always about the music for him. He was taken far too young and it left a hole in a lot of fan's hearts bc it is genuinely rare to have someone like that gain as much notoriety without fizzling out or switching up when they got the bag.
Watching my favorite rapper cry about the death of Mac Miller changed my whole perspective on Mac Miller.
forever swimming on
rest in peace 🕊
you know we’ve hit a cultural low when Ed Sheeran starts rapping 💀
I'm from Detroit and was ready to get salty about this post. It's a very slippery slope and you handled it well. I do a Jazz blog and have long ago become "colorblind" and use the quality of the music as the only cover charge. Thank you for an interesting, well-crafted video.
As someone deep in the punk/pop-punk/emo scene, I'd be interested to hear your analysis on something you touched on for a second that young black artists are taking more and more to rock inspired stuff than before and where that definitely still small but noticeable transition is coming from.
Yeah, I definitely thought about bands like Meet Me @ The Altar and Pinkshift when he said that.
I didn’t even know this was a thing, but I’d love to see the change!
Y’all have any idea who those artists are that he showed as examples? They looked cool asf
Well black artist created rock and punk rock and even metal
Seems relevant now that Soul Glo are taking the scene by storm
Being a white dude that for most of his life heard only punk and metal, and knows very little about north american hip-hop (although I do know a good amount more about brazillian hip-hop, being born and raised here), it's always a treat to watch your hip-hop and rap videos. It's like discovering a whole new world I had no idea existed. Like, I honestly knew more black rappers that you mentioned in this video than the white ones - I only knew eminem and vanilla ice, never heard of mac miller or milkbone or whatever. It's hella entertaining watching you explain the whole history behind the topic you want to tackle, because for people like me, I can get the idea now that I have the context.
And trust me, only boring dudes think the Anthrax + Public Enemy collab sucks or is dated. That shit rocks.
You had never heard the name Beastie Boys before?!
BRASIL MENTIONED 🎉
You definitely have to go listen to some Mac Miller. Check out his Tiny Desk concert
@@cactaceous bro literally never said that.
to be fair there arent many successfully mainstream white rappers, the only major staple names id expect someone not tapped in to recognise would be eminem, mac miller and the beastie boys
It sounds like the root cause of your "problem" with white rappers is actually a rant against capitalism, and that record sales/income/mainstream awards is supposed to be an objective measure of talent or value of an art form that has been around long enough to evolve into more than its narrow beginnings. As a black person that is not from the hood, I have listened to hip hop since Run DMC, Whodini, NWA, until now. When Eminem's Slim Shady LP dropped, I happened to relate more to his album than ANY album I had heard before it, including 2pac. That's not something that people can control, how art makes them feel. Even if I can recognize that 2pac had a more positive message (before death row), and Timbaland has objectively better beats than Dr. Dre and almost all the west coast gangsta shit of the time, Eminem's first album just struck a chord (pun intended).
After listening to enough types of music, and trying to categorize them all, I realized one day that it's kinda futile, because the idea of a genre is not black and white, there's no lines. It's continuous multidimensional gradients. To say that "this is real hip hop" is just as subjective as asking whether the song is good. What category do you put Rage Against the Machine? Is Sublime cultural appropriation, or is it appreciation? Is death metal as a whole what Mozart and Beethoven would have done today, since death metal is basically classical music played on a guitar and amplified to 11?
As for the money aspect, how is it bad that Michael Jackson, Drake (i dont like ANYTHING from drake) and Eminem found a way to appeal to more people than any other artists in history? Sure, it's not fair that the total purchasing power of Caucasians in America is at least 5x higher than the creators of this art form if going just by population. What could we do about that? Don't make music that appeals to white people? Don't sell music to white people? None of this makes sense to me. For example, Everytime Drake and Kendrick drop an album around the same time, all hip hop fans are only paying attention to K dot because his music has infinitely more substance. But drake has all the pop panties wet, so he gets sales. Are they even the same kind of music?
It sounds like you want all hip hop to sound the same, and only come from people who look a certain way and come from a certain background, but just as rock turned to grunge, thrash, death, black, numetal and whatever the hell else, hip hop has turned into a multitude of subgenres, and yours is no longer the most popular. This is just as bad as the gatekeeping that happened when lil nas x went #1 on the country charts, and they took him down because he didn't have the "country background" they wanted their music to come from. If you like the song, just like the song.
Cool story bro
Pretty much facts only in this comment
This exactly bro, music is subjective. I just left a comment touching on basically the exact same point lol
Hip hop is worldwide now.. transcends ethnicity, language, and class… thank you to the black community for this gift, but the world has grabbed a hold of it and is running with it
@@CryptotoneRecord labels picked it up and made it a psyop, and now this...
There's 25,000,000 white people living below the poverty line in this country. I grew up in the projects and hip hop was the music I related too.I don't think it's ĵust about the black experience, I think hip hop is about the experience of the forgotten that are at the bottom.
You should listen to King 810 it's far from hip-hop but as a poor kid it was definitely relatable.
bro, the way this guy veils his feelings of racial superiority behind being "fair" put me off to this video and i had to just leave around the 9-10 minute mark. he says black art is superior and "clears the rest" almost always. or that white people owe everything to black people from throughout history. its like he learned every opinion he has through weird ass internet threads. this shit is so outdated. then again, he's old
@@lazardox8769he literally explains his views on black art as a result of white American art being rooted in a history of Puritanism and a lack of artistic expression while black/african art is often rooted in a culture that encourages it and fosters it more, so no shit it would be better. I feel like to stop at 10 minutes through the video and cite a sense of “racial superiority” from signifier is kinda weird especially cause he was just in the middle of building his argument
@@iy2147 i would say, instead of blanketly saying black art is better than white art we instead just appreciate art for what it is and not attribute superiority of anything by basing it on race. not to mention that what you just said is an opinion, and having opinions that are based on racial superiority is something i dont agree with. whether its the apparently acceptable form of expressing racial superiority or not, i guess. im not going to listen to someone i think is building an argument for superiority based on race because most people wouldnt want to continue to hear the opinions of stereotypical racial supremacists like skinheads or neo-nazis. it all stems from similar shit, and idc what your argument is if it begins with laying foundations that excuse expressing racial superiorty
@@lazardox8769he doesn’t say black art is better than white art nimrod he literally says right before the 10 minute mark that all cultures have their unique arts that are valuable
why does everyone think gen z is cancelling eminem ?? i promise you they either don’t think about him or are indifferent
People want to see passion, but most people can't recognize that, they assume it's the sounds, the audio, the colors or style. Not realizing what makes it so good is the passion people bring to it
People really like Mac Miller because he seamed very genuine.
In time if he didn't pass away, he would have surprised us all.
I look at him like Capital Steez, to say that it was a terrible loss of life.
Could you imagine what both those guys would have been if they got the chance to mature in the rap game
Please take mental health seriously because a lot of geniuses struggle with it in a world that's not kind to sensitive thinkers
I came from a broken home (white, upper middle class, domestic violence). the way violence related trauma was being processed in hip hop was very soothing to me. i felt seen in a way. so there was always a disconnect between relating to the violence, but not the violence specific to poc living in american ghettos (from whom the music originated). i strongly associated with the culture regardless and eminem was a kind of bridge for me.
I think one thing being overlooked when it comes to Mac Miller is that most who love his music love it because they loved him as a person. Sure he was nice for a white dude but Mac came up in the blogging era so he was on camera a lot. He was a positive light, he respected the culture, and he seemed like a generally fun loving guy. He had his public struggles and he was super vulnerable in his music. He grew as an artist and we all grew as people together. So yes he was a white rapper and he definitely benefited from that, but Mac mainly achieved his adoration, love, and respect through who he was as a person. Simply listening to the art without having that connection creates an expected level of dissonance.
Facts mac Miller is one of the white rappers the makes you forget he’s white and that’s he’s just a dude, someone that’s like someone you know in your life
interesting point, makes me wonder about internet presence/cross disiplinary exposure in general. id wager donald glover wouldnt have been nearly as successful with his music if he wasnt known through tv and comedy
As a black man these are facts, also he collaborated with dozens of old heads from previous generations of hip hop. Like he said on Faces “If I ain’t in your top ten then you a racist”😅
@@screwyouguysimgoinghooome8479 did you not watch the video? “Nice for a white dude” is basically what F. D. said. It is true because he’s nice regardless of his skin color. Please don’t nitpick and try twisting the intent of my comment. I love Mac.
mac miller IS pittsburgh though. a goddamn SHAME he’s gone.
I would love to see a video on a subject you alluded to in this video. That being Nu Metal. These were bands like Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park. This wave of music blended hip hop and metal and we began to see a melding of 2 groups of people that were traditionally kept separate. Linkin Park did an album with Jay Z. Ice Cube did a song with KoRn. Method Man did a song with Limp Bizkit. It was a wonderful time where rap and metal sat at the same table, and I am sad that it didn’t amount to more than what it became. I doubt you’ll even see this comment, but if you do, please do a video on this subject. I would love to hear your take.
It’s making a comeback actually
Nu metal is primed for a resurgence fr fr
tbf it was kinda cringe in hindsight, altho not quite in the 'white boy rapper claiming the streets' way. Not gonna lie, my little hormone-fueled teenage-ass felt Linkin Park but imo it's only KoRn and RatM that actually stands the test of time
Trap metal has been a pretty popular genre in the last 8 years or so
@spaceboy.digital dunno if it fits into nu-metal exactly, but there's this hip hop folk metal band called bloodywood
As an Indian who grew up on Eminem before realising the problematic aspects of his existence this video is such a great watch and I can see this happen to Indian hip hop at the moment which initially gained fame from Mumbai (Slum, Poverty) and Tamil (Caste/Colour Politics) hip hop slowly shift entirely to North Indian hip hop which is mostly just bragging on beat very well.
Glad to see you! Didn't think there were many Indians watching
This is a very good point of analysis. Also, I am glad there are Indians watching FD's videos.
I think another aspect is the way that rap and hip hop are appropriated by different Indian regions/artists. A lot of the Tamil rap I'm familiar with (not cinema music, but independent artists) definitely add their own artistry with kuthu beats, flows and interludes that are very... Indian sounding? It's more than adding meaningful lyrics.
I don't know enough about regional artists up north, but definitely the mainstream ones don't do anything more than change the language and brag. I think Sidhu Moosewaala was pretty good though, depth of lyrics-wise.
I also have a bit of... Dislike (?) for Desi rappers in the diaspora who try to use the artform to partially speak on their experience of racism and class discrimination, partially try to appropriate Blackness and profit off it, and partially try to 'feel oppressed' (specifically people like Raja Kumari try to talk about slums like they've been there, but are caste and class privileged).
@@janhaviverma5180 making the rap sound Indian is such a good point! Exactly why Tamil hip hop even some mainstream film ones sound so close to home. The same goes with Marathi hip hop, although the beats mostly sound western, the adlibs are quintessentially Maharashtrian in nature and one's that people from here can relate to. There's obviously great artists up North too but the mainstream is just trap beats and lyrical miracle flows but in Hindi. Punjabi rap falls victim to that as well but there's certainly great songs since they come from a tragedy that many of these artists were born into (Sikh Pogroms 1984) and the increasing alienation they feel since then.
"I dont like rap but i listen to Eminem" says it all
I would love to hear your take on how hip-hop penetrated cultures internationally as well. Growing up in Tbilisi, Georgia Tupac, for example, had a huge influence on the street gang culture in early to mid 2000s. His songs really took on a different punch for boys growing up in an impoverished post-soviet country. Had a strong love-hate relationship with the genre as a whole growing up because of all these different connotations and cultural relativism.
Oh, man, same shit in Yerevan. Tupac and 50 cent are like two biggest artists of all time here
yup my mom who grew up in 90s russia also immediately thinks of tupac and 50 cent when rap comes up
Yeah my mom and dad in Somalia during the civil war listened to Tupac and 50 cent sometimes on the radio and enjoyed listening to their music even despite what they were going through
Snow was legit in reggae. My family knows him personally and I met him many times growing up. He got his reggae influences from people in his neighbourhood like my Jamaican dad who he was close childhood friends with. And many other Jamaican immigrants living in his community. He was pretty much immersed in Jamaican culture. Enough to legitimately know patois. The community he comes from and the one I also grew up in was low-income and mostly black immigrants. It was the closest Canadian equivalent to the hood, considering our supposed social security nets up here. His music was and is still loved by Jamaicans because he was just that good at reggae. He gave back a lot to his community when he got semi-famous and still hung around that same community years after the fact hosting block parties and stuff for the kids and adults.
I feel like that Jim Carrey skit single-handedly made him a laughing stock when it wasn't at all deserved.
Don’t forget Dominic also who was from England and was popular in late 80s early 90s dancehall
I don't think it would've been that different if that skit didn't happen. I'm sure he was respected in his community and that a lot of people who understand where he comes from fw him, but broadly speaking, he was on mtv as a goofy nerdy white guy singing in a patois. I don't think he had any chance of getting respect from a larger audience
Hell, I loves me some Snow. What surprised me the most is the fact that he is Canadian. 🇺🇸❤🇨🇦👍🏾👍🏾
@@keenanmitchell3913 England has a huge Caribbean population, especially in London and the Midlands. If you hear British rap or “Grime” or the EDM scene it has huge Caribbean influence and it’s common to have someone rapping or emceeing in Patois.
Also, didn't Snow see his music video for Informer for the first time in prison? For assaulting a guy with a crowbar or something like that? He was legit in more ways than one.
real paradox is how you attribute success to a companies and not their talent.