Creation Today - Risen (Without) A Doubt
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 เม.ย. 2017
- Is Jesus still dead, or is he Risen Without a Doubt? In a massive presentation, Eric Hovind and Tim Chaffey go deep on what they call the most attested event in ancient history... but is it? A former Christian takes a look at the entire presentation series to find the actual evidence for the claims, or to see if the entire belief comes down to "the Bible says so!"
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Dagnabbit! It's a 6 disc set, not a 9 disc set. I had the thumb drive version. Ugh. Apologies.
haha! Paulogia apologizes. I don't know where to go with that but I think it has potential. xD
So it's only around 5 discs longer than necessary to say almost nothing, instead of 8?
Don't worry, Paul. It's a forgivable sin. :)
Before Jesus died, he ate a WHOLE LOT of yeast. And that is how he ROSE again! That is why you eat Jesus's flesh because its mostly bread. The wine that is his blood - see, yeast making the grapes Jesus ate into wine! Checkmate!
also damn good work on that research!
If the little pigs didn't really build houses, then why would the big bad wolf try so hard to blow them down?
perfect!
Prophet of Zod well said! A great example of the silly cognative disodence n bias behind the faith n belief that is behind the following of a holy book over any other book or story.
It stuns me so much, that most christians don't know or understand the history of the bible, and specifically the king James version that most modern prodasent( american) christianity is based upon. Similarly the quaran . The Jewish faith is somewhat different from this in regards to Torah, that its a tool instead followed blindly n literally.
But the bias of literal followimg of some parts, yet ignoring other sections is incredulous.
Most people use the NIV version or the NASB Version of the bible which is, in no way, connected with the KJV of the bible. I'm not sure if you mean to imply that, at the time of martain luthor and the time of the protestant reformation, the KJV was likely the most common version, but really it has very little bearing on anything, and is a very weak criticism, even if one were to assert that the KJV was an absolutely horrible translation, which isn't true. Except for the parts he changed for political reasons, it's comparable to most other versions in terms of quality. There have since been several findings (like the dead sea scrolls) that are older than the Textus Receptus, but even they are simmilar enough that one can say "version doesn't matter." IMO there are 2 things that are important to note about version. First, the actual assembly of the bible from an assortment of hundreds of documents that were ultimately rejected for ultimately political reasons during the councils of nicea (they used criteria like "does this story make jesus appear TOO mortal or TOO divine?" and "what are people quoting alot in modern (325AD) church services" .) and 2 that it was done by Emperor Constantine for political reasons as a means of control.
My main objection to people using the KJB is that people don't speak Early modern English anymore, and so the use of the KJV uses an exploitable ambiguity that allows people to say something blindingly stupid with a straight face because they haven't bothered to work out the specifics of what they are reading. The ritualistic nature of religion already exploits similar psychological loopholes by using repetition, Pavlovian responses, singing, and cost fallacies, among others. Confusing, overly-flowery language that is percieved as being "higher" than modern english is simply another bone on the heap.
Quidquid Latine Dictum, Sid altum viditeur
_If the little pigs didn't really build houses, then why would the big bad wolf try so hard to blow them down?_
A comment worthy of one of my followers. Now kneel before me.
I have my catholic bible, IT has MORE books in it. One- of which covers the Maccabees. Which is a shame. The Maccabees were real people. Pre-Jewish. They still worshiped god's girlfriend, Asherah. They had poles. You remember in the bible how pissed off god was about seeing poles. It must have been a messy divorce.
Some historian went through there not long after Alexander the Great's death. And he asked the guide why didn't the emperor appoint one of his sons as ruler in Jerusalem. The guide laughed & said, the son would take it as an insult.
"Best attested event in human history."
Pompeii buried by Vesuvius eruption: Tickets to Naples from Montreal: ~830$. Tickets to Pompeii: ~30 Euros for a guided visit.
Empty tomb: ............................................?
@Marilyn Newman I'm familiar with the multiple One(tm) True(tm) Tomb(tm) problem, yes. Tourist traps. Might as well go visit Jesus Adventure Land in the USA (or whatever it's called, Bill Maher talks to the idiot actor who plays Jesus there in _Religulous)_ and take pictures of the Holy World's Biggest Ball Of Elastic Bands.
Knowing myself I intentionally left that part open for some theist to object to in order to spring the trap of multiple empty tombs on them. Even if I didn't think that far ahead this time, it's hardly well-attested. Or attested at all.
+Paul Thank you so much for the hours of work you spent on this. I have a small inkling of how much work this is. I especially like the graphics and following the sources starting at min 2:48.
more hours than is sane to count. thanks, Doug. your exceptional hangouts this week were the soundtrack.
"Man, we just used confirmation bias to prove what we already believed! This is awesome!" Kudos to you, Paul, for sitting through those videos.
"It's been called by some people..." Sounds amazingly like "Ancient Alien Theorist say yes..." hahaha Well, that's good enough for me.
reptile alien or little grey dudes?
Paulogia Bigfoot. He's actually part of an interdimensional race that no longer ages. I believe he is the last of his kind and he created Earth as his Eden and seeded life so that he could roam this world and enjoy the beauty as his world died ages ago. At least it sounds good.
@@Paulogia yes
Reminds me to Donald Trump: "Many people say that I am the greatest leader ever. Some even say, I am better than Jesus!"
7:50 My mother passed away last October (2016) and JUST LAST NIGHT I saw her and spoke with her. Seeing and speaking to my mother is not proof she is alive, because things like hallucinations, delusions and DREAMS happen.
Spoke to my deceased grandfather on several occasions when I was little -- interesting how people cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality.
@Marilyn Newman Some people are horrible. It's just that much harder when they are someone who means something to us, or at least once meant something.
Thing is, you have to let that anger go. Holding anger in your heart is like drinking poison hoping it will hurt your enemy.
Forgiveness is not drinking the poison.
One thing I hate about religion is their twisting of what forgiveness is. It is not making things between you and the one who harmed you okay. It's deciding not to be angry any more.
Forgiveness isn't for the other person, it is for you.
It's just too bad that letting go of your anger is much easier said than done.
I wish you the greatest luck, Marilyn. I'd say "God bless" but I'm atheist, and I don't know what the secular equivalent to "God bless" is. Whatever it is, I wish it for you.
@Eric Taylor I thought this was well-written and insightful. Sometimes words creep into our collective vocabulary, and over time there comes this illusion that since the word exists the _concept_ must exist in some objective way (at least in the case of abstracts). We forget there was a time when the abstract either didn’t have a name, or perhaps it went by some other name....either way, it “was what it was.” If we call _deciding not to be angry_ forgiveness, then sounds good to me; good advice regardless what it is called.
Paul, as many people have already said, this was so well done. You deserve to have more subscribers. Watching Eric and Tim interact reminded me of Sesame Street in the sense that their show seemed geared towards children without critical thinking skills.
Bert and Ernie, minus the critical thinking skills that made their interactions so entertaining.
This is a very nice claim-by-claim refutation. It is calm and decent enough to entice people to discuss ideas rather than get into the name calling pissing contest we see sometimes. Great job Sir!
"jesus lives in his heart" - its probably just a heart worm.
better than an ear worm?
Simplistic Logic 911 maybe it's a goa'uld
Simplistic Logic 911
Oh Jesus! I hate that I know those exist now. Eeeeeeeeeeee.
The babelfish lives in your ear...
6 6, I am going to use a variation of that.
This may be weird, but add to this that they seem to be unaware of the plural of “evidence”, a word used often enough on scientific literature.
Just discovered your channel, can't get enough!!! Keep up the great work my friend!
Welcome, Akephalos!
This is simple. If Jesus is still alive send him over to my house so I can meet him. I'll leave the light on. And I'll expect a few scientifically verified miracles too. Like my daughter cleaning up after herself.
Christian: Jesus is alive!
Me: Okay, so where is he?
Christian: He is in HEAVEN!
Me: Isn't that where you go after you die?
Oh now you're just being silly. "Leave the light on" haha. Jesus is God and can see in the dark better than a cat.
The whole "crucifixion/resurrection" episode is one of those glaring holes in the story that christians never seem to notice! (And I'm not even touching upon the disgustingly-*immoral* concept of *anyone* having to "pay for" the sins of their ancestors!)
...So Jesus supposedly had spent all eternity beforehand in "heaven", right? And he knew he was going back to spend the REST of eternity in "heaven" again after his crucifixion/resurrection trick, right?
So basically, the christian message amounts to: "Repent and be saved! For Jesus had one reeeeeally bad *WEEKEND* , for your sins!" Big deal...
@Enjoy and Travel The World! -- IKR -- original sin? Murder? Nope. Rape, incest, adultery? Nope. Lying, thieving, cheating, or stealing? Nope. Eating a GD piece of fruit that you were told to leave alone. Sure, let's put a chocolate cake in front of a toddler and set him on fire if he eats it!
"they wont? they cant?" i think we can.
LOL gold!
glad someone liked it!
Ok, done. Still great. This is why we need Street epistemology. People don't understand why they believe. Great job Paul.
Thanks, Lucas. Spread the word.
Thanks again for all the work you put into these video Paul!
My pleasure... your support is always appreciated.
Great job providing evidence for the refutation. I love the accuracy of your videos.
Damn you're good Paul. Love listening to you. You definitely do your research.
“Go look for colored eggs” I literally spit my water out when i heard that. 🤣🤣
I am Catholic of origin and in Catholic houses there is always a cross over the doorway. (At least in my knack of the world)
So now this question: Why was Jesus not drowned instead of crucified?
Answer: An aquarium over the doorway looks silly.
I miss the modern "for the bible tells me so" sound
Great video. ..but imagine my rather pleasant surprise, living as I do in a small town in South Africa, to see the rather beautiful 1880's church which is a focal point in our little community in Piketberg, used as a representative of a church building (at 15:40). Somehow brings it home!
The timing of "I think we can" in the intro was perfect. Lol.
Tim and Eric Awful Show, Bad Job
Dammit, I was just about to post a comment about how Tim Heidecher and Eric Wareheim act more intelligent than these two, then I saw that you already made the connection and beat me to it.
David Liebe Hart dragged them into this.
NICE
Haha! Knew it would be in here somewhere
Aw beat me to it 2 years earlier....so much for anything ever being original :(
Thorough as usual, Paul.
Thanks, Paul.
The suspension of disbelief is simply too great for me to believe.
When you have to use arguments you would never accept in any other sphere of life in order to try to justify your faith, you should know you have a problem.
My favorite apologetic lately is this one: god reveals his spirit to those who believe -- so god only exists to those who already think he exists?!?!?!
Paul, your a real jewel man. I just subscribed to your channel. Almost makes me want to become Canadian....again!
"I think we can..." Go, Paul!!
this is a genius video. thanks for making it!
I wish this was a podcast. I listen to these videos OVER and OVER on my laptop, day and night...which I guess is good for the algorithm...but I'd like to listen to this on road trips too. I guess I should try listening to something else sometime. I don't wanna though.
Masterly done.
I hope you got paid from the ads/commercials TH-cam plays before Your uploads. Because PureFlix ( sic 0, Just paid you something, I hope.
Carry on my wayward son, You make me ( smarter ) and Proud. ( bows deeply and most respectfully to You).
I find it weird that a crucified body would end up in a tomb, for crucifixion was used on enemies of the state and they hanged on the "cross" until the birds had eaten the body clean as a warning example. and then they fall apart and was laying around the place and prob eaten by scavengers. Burial was prob very unlikely and put in a tomb even less likely.
Thank you, Paul.
6 discs.. of Hovind.. How on Earth can you stay sane after that?!
Your sacrifice is noted and appreciated.
4 minutes in and it's great already
How would you disprove the Sword in the Stone to someone who had faith in Arthurian legend?
The oldest accounts of arthurian legend we have don't even mention the sword in the stone or much of anything, suggesting most of the story is embellishment as we have accounts of how the story changed throughout history. While it is possible arthur is based on a real figure we have seen the record of the story's embellishment showing it certainly is not accurate
@@jamesmasse5794 Granted, but my question is, how do you make a convincing argument for or against a widely quoted legend for which there isn't any independent evidence? I picked the sword in the stone as a less contentious example than the empty tomb.
You watched all of it? Oh, that must have been excruciating. Thanks for doing that so we don't have to. Way to take one for the team. ;-)
Your almost to 1,000 subs good job!
Almost... spread the word.
Paulogia I probably will but I'm lazy so There is no guarantee of me getting anything done
The law on bodies sounds more like a law against grave robbing.
This dude is a laser beam of logic and reason
But there actually *is* an anonymous girl in Asia obsessed with your hair. 😉👍
0:47 why would God need to tell a story in 4 different ways(some of which contradict one another) barely even started and Eric already has holes in his story
If we saw "Jesus" that would mean nothing. Any bearded guy in a robe without deodorant would do. We have no idea what Jesus looked like. We do know he did not look anything like the Nordic blue-eyed Jesus on Christmas cards.
I saw Jesus on a street corner once. He was bearded, clearly undeodorized, and preaching at the top of his lungs. Starangely, I had absolutely no urge to kiss his feet.
there have been a lot of religious ads showing up under your vids for me lately. treated to a Mormon one this time. woohoo prince of peace! lol
I wonder if it's cause I said "Mormon" and "Joseph Smith" a few times. I'll take their money.
I do wonder what Jesus is like when he appears to people... is he like super chill and casual, or is he like the ghost of Mufasa, with a booming voice telling you to claim your destiny and stuff?
1:55, BINGO, Christian apologetics is not about convincing the sceptic nor any other rational being (although, one could argue that it used to be), it is designed to keep the sheep from straying from the flock and loss of revenue.
Paul, thanks mate, good one. I would like these guys to do a basic logic course. But I "know" they're doing it for money, not for good works. ;)
Once again Paul pure greatness. We all do our parts to counter the apologetics of Christians but you have gone a long way in very little time. There's a bright future ahead of you for yourself and your channel. I'm not accepting this on faith but on evidence. I don't say it because I'm nice I'm saying it because it's true... damn true!
I'm humbled. Thank you, sir. Just trying to add to the chorus.
you don't need to "Sir" me Paul. We know each other from Twitter (@ILikeTarsiers) but I truly mean it. I say these things not because I'm nice but because it's true.
I get more formal, the better I know someone.
That's your thing I guess. Keep up the awesome work though. The next KC maybe.
AMD needs to run an ad campaign with the tagline "Ryzen Without a Doubt".
One thing you may have forgotten to note regarding legendary development - the longer time goes on, the less eyewitnesses (and people who spoke to them) are around to contradict things like the appearance of angels.
This convinced me of the resurrection. I am going to preach it to everyone. Just kidding.
The reason they use the existence of the church as proof of the resurrection is that the Bible says if Jesus wasn’t raised from the dead then everything we believe is in vain. At least that’s what I’m assuming they mean.
9:50 The conversion of Saul of Tarsus in Acts is clearly inspired by the conversion story of Paul (probably of Damascus) recorded in Galatians because of the many similarities. Yet, while Paul's conversion to preaching is rather mundane and years slow, Saul's is days fast and extraordinary, even miraculous. Compare them side by side.
Have you ever done a video on the Apostle or Saint Stephen? This is the one I remember the most from my childhood in Church.
I respect you for watching all of that. I’m a former Christians too and I want to actually watch it but then again Idk if I could sit down for and watch all of it I might need drugs or alcohol or something. Idk
"A Fish tale" - That's a very good simile
The evidence for the Bible is overwhelming. It's all there, in the Bible!
It's interesting to watch these two because the methodology seems so familiar. I was a true believing Mormon missionary back in the day and employed the same strategy they do here. A little bit (but not too much) critical analysis here and then jump back to my personal witness straight from the Holy Ghost.
Anonymous asian girl here.
Love your hair.
Tim and Eric awesome show, great job!
I hope one of them see this comment and thinks I am complementing them rofl
You deserve the Job Prize for Longsuffering Patience (ou intelectual masochism)!
Love your humor :)
Thanks, Amelia!
@@Paulogia been a fan of your channel for over a year.. had a question. I was watching Blackwitchescoven and Savannah meantioned if Jesus is dead.. doesn't that make everyone who claims to speak him are consulting the dead? Basically putting themselves on the mediums and witches standard without knowing it. Just a thought.. another conderdition. Keep up great content ;)
I don't know how old the video is (it popped up from the autoplay algorithm) or if anybody covered it already, but the reference to critics means scholars in the field of biblical criticism.
I don't know if the consensus is that Jesus never rose from the grave (being that most biblical critics are Christian suggests they do believe the underlying messages), but have heard it said that the consensus, even amongst Christian scholars, is that the stories as written are not meant to be viewed as an accurate historical record.
Tim and Eric Awesome Show Nice Job
3:04 that's a good point
👋👋👋
At around 17:30 I went into Christianity from Hinduism, spent almost twenty years searching for God APART FROM THE BIBLE, an indication that those words might have meaning to REAL life.
Then, in Dec 2014, our lives were ripped apart. One pastor told us to go look for God and come back when we found Him, then his church will be able to help us. That was the beginning of the end of it for me. I tried, searching, in vain, to find this So-called God for another two years, while I watched my family break!
Then, finally, on October 29 2016, it wasy hubby's birthday and our lives were in the drain, and we needed something to give desperately. It should have been us because we felt we needed most, but although God could have intervened and helped, I thought this was God's moment to give us a "here and now reason" to give him the glory and honour, etc. But it didn't come. And it never came!
So Eric is wrong on many assertions he make. My experience alone shows that.
I can't believe that he will be so bold in the face of his "God".
Also, you missed the Hindu temple, which those gods aren't real either. Been there, done that.
👌👍great videos. Thanks for the effort, I really appreciate that you are "a former Christian". I hope we can chat one day.
Just found this vid. Liked what I Saw. Cheers.
Welcome, Chazz! Thanks.
We are told that the Bible was written by "God" and that he made this planet in six days, but he took sixty to seventy years to write the Bible.
Don't tell me that "God" is dyslexic.
tactus100 maybe God is and when he first inspired work for genesis he wrote down God instead of Dog.
God may not be dyslexic, but Tim thoundthh as though he'th thpent loth...a lot of money on dental treatmenthh, let'th thay that, becauthh calling the guy a thpathtic would be nasty.
Resurrected un-dead vampire known as Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick...come on, kids, it's a good idea for a splatter-flick, but it got done in the '80s, so, er....that's it, and that's all, folks! Dee dee deedle deedle deedle, dee dee dee, deedle dee dee dit deeyyyyuuppp!!!
yes
& he actually barks
You spelt god incorrectly. ;)
tactus100 He had to have Moses alone for 40 days to write the 10 commandments. Hmmm. I think you stirred an excellent point.
"assertions all the way down" i think i got my time's worth watching this video lol
Well over 500 people have seen Elvis alive, so clearly Elvis conquered death and is therefore the son of God.
BOOM
Kaboom
You watched all 6 videos? you poor ****** !
multiple times... to edit this thing. all for you guys.
and we appreciate it greatly
Paulogia I very much appreciate it. Thanks buddy. I'm 25, and grew up very indoctrinated. I'm finally thinking for myself and finding my own beliefs so your videos have helped me on my spiritual journey. Thanks.
LucasMidkiff
Check out The Atheist Experience (If u haven't already!)
I once watched Kent Hovind's "seminars", some 7 DVDs or something. That was painful!
At 5:54 Tim puts up a slide from Acts 1 verse 3 using the word "infallible", which is from the KJV. The New English bible uses the word "ample" and the NIV uses the word "convincing". No wonder Eric, following his daddy Kent, loves the KJV.
excellent point. I did notice the translations Eric will use can stray from KJV selectively to get the right word in specific context. (e.g. "faith is the evidence")
another side note on the tomb shit, as a stonemason that actually can turn a rock into a square brick with a square and a chisel, stone theft was a big thing back in the day, stonemasons weren't cheap and worked stone was expensive. so yer quite explains the warnings to people about taking grave stones
What did it say on that poster in Fox Mulder's office? Oh yeah,...."I Want To Believe."
The Romans only allowed the remains of crucifixion victims to be claimed after one year had passed since the event.
I find it remarkable that they can claim all their stuff is true because they exist.
Great dissection as always... a terrific Easter egg, thanks.
Given the 'facts' in Matthew 27 open tombs, raised dead and many witnesses wasn't a unique situation.
I find the claim that 'ἔγερσιν' in verse 53 is an interpolation convincing in the sequence of reported events. Which could mean that Jesus' rising was more of a storyline afterthought, amplification, or bad editing.
I found a colored egg on my lawn last Easter. The Easter Bunny confirmed! lol ;)
_Is_ there an anonymous girl in Asia who is obsessed with your hair?
If so, I'd be grateful to know how you went about setting that up.
Cheers ;)
Paukogia,
Just a follow-up with a some tidbit information. Of the four (4) Gospel written that contained 89 chapters only 4 chapters have anything about the resurrection and what Jesu did after he had was risen and meet with the disciples.
Writer Chapter(s)
Matthew 28:1-20
Mark None (story ends at 16:8)
Luke 24:1-53
John 20-21 (go figure the most embellished)
A "talking cross" in the Gospel of Peter?? "That's the stuff of legends...."
But, Jesus claiming "the rocks themselves would cry out" ... that makes perfect sense.
So according to Christian logic, rocks can talk, but not wood.
Paul why didn't you mention Richard Carrier and his work on the mystic position
“It has been repeated gullibly by some people that.... “
"What was happening in the empire for there to be a law against removing a body from a tomb?"
If I were to guess, necrophilia or the desecration of bodies from personal enemies.
23:26 it sounds like you say (and the closed captions say) "tress pounding." I Googled that and came up with nothing. What did you actually say there? "Chest pounding?" I first interpreted it as one word "trespounding" ... I figured something like "trespassing" but different. Lol. I guess I'll go with "Chest pounding."
Thomas Arnold (1795-1642)? He lived for negative 153 years? It's a miracle!
You might reconsider the evidence for mythicism, the question of mundane Jesus's existence can be purely academic, but studying the case reveals more legendary development. We can see how Christians borrowed and edited whatever they wanted to tell whatever story would serve their own purposes.
I'm still fascinated by the mythicist position, but for my purposes it seems to be an unnecessary additional burden (of proof) to bear... and a distraction to those I'd wish to help.
the study itself will reveal how deep the legendary development goes. That could give you more ammunition if some Christian says that Jesus' resurrection is the best attested fact in all the ancient world, or some such nonsense.
Luke also does not end with the Resurrection--Acts was originally part of the same book.
For the “minimal facts” bit, add according to the Bible in the beginning
Actually, with the Gospel of Peter, and the reference to the cross following Jesus, it is thought by some to be figurative, and referring to the followers of Jesus as a crowd in the shape of a cross.
10:55 I've got one better for you, Paul.
Not only do I not believe in alien abductions, I have actually been abducted by aliens!
This might seem to be a contradiction at first glance, but it isn't.
For as long as I can remember (and this might have happened even when I was a baby) 8 or 9 times a year I wake up in my bed. I can see someone (or some THING) standing over me. I can't move or speak or cry out. I can't even move my eyes to look directly at the intruder. I can hear the intruder moving and sometimes even "speaking" but the sounds are nothing like I've ever heard humans sound like. I can even SMELL the intruder. I can feel the covers being pulled off my body and I can feel the bed tipping or maybe I'm being lifted out of bed, but I can still feel what I think is my mattress sporting my body.
At this point I usually lose consciousness, then wake up in morning light shining through my bedroom window.
These experiences have none of the "dream like" feelings you have when dreaming. They feel ABSOLUTELY real. In fact it took me a long time to be convinced they are NOT real. And that is the key.
A great many people suffer with this type of experience, but it is all 100% without a doubt NOT REAL.
I can completely understand why people think this might be alien abductions. Even now, know it's not real, it still takes a great deal of effort to tamp down the terror. So when I say that I have been abducted by aliens, I'm simply saying I have these same experiences others claim are alien abductions.
Frankly I think this places me in an even stronger position to say there are no aliens sneaking people out of bed. I have experienced these events and understand what they really are.
no different than any other religious experience. Social bias and environment dictate whether it is a religious experience or some other paranormal event.
this is a version of sleep Hypnagogic hallucinations, my brother had it, he also had audio halucinations when waking up unable to open his eyes, he could only snap out of it if some one touched him, i was often the one to wake to his groans in the night, the only sign he was having an episode, i hope you can see a doctor and get medication, its treatable.
She is obsessed with my hair! Heathen!
Which of the four contradictory accounts is the historical one? Or maybe it was one of the other gospels that didn't make the cut?
Mark was written first. None are historical.
I like the order (and reasoning) presented by Richard Carrier on the gospel writing, but not the dates. Mark probably does use Josephus _War_ for some aspects of the life of Jesus - placing it c.80. But I place Matthew c.130 to counter another claim to the title "messiah" in the person of Simon bar Kokhba (which matches the pro-Torah aspects of his writing). Long enough after the original Mark that people wouldn't care (and the reason for the need to have a birth narrative and lineage to David, lots of extra miracles that can't be checked now, and much instruction - "the five great discourses" on how the church should be run - as Peter, James, and John (and Paul) didn't leave enough instructions, and all those little corrections to Mark on the laws, customs, and geography of the area, as Mark was undoubtedly written elsewhere). Rambling, sorry.
Luke addresses his stories to Theophilus, probably the one from Antioch - who might have been the one to fund it. These all come before John's "special revelation" (through his new character Nicodemus) - which seems to use all three of these earlier ones. All four gospels are first mentioned by Irenaeus c.182.
And Justin (in the 150s) didn't know about Luke's or John's writings, but seems to know of and use a different gospel which included a birth cave instead of a stable.
Of course, nobody but me thinks this way. No scholar would dare place them this late, as that would upset a lot of Christians.
@@rchuso -- also a small epiphany I had is that both Jesus and Josephus had the same birth name of Yeshua. Yes a common name, but taking some scripture that mentions "jesus" and replacing it with "josephus" it still makes contextual sense!
@@timq6224 - Another clue: there's no other "Jesus" in the NT. The authors chose names for a reason (see, for example, the name of Jesus' dad and mom). The closest is Barabbas (in earlier texts he's called "Jesus Barabbas" or "Yeshua Bar Abba" - you'll undoubtedly recognize the "Yeshua" as it's translated "Jesus" - see the Wikipedia article on Barabbas).
@@rchuso -- the point being, the reason those names were chosen had nothing to do with real people who were actually named that. Interesting point also about Jesus father (who was also named Yeshua) quite possibly he was the original messiah character (being forced to flee and then returning triumphantly from Egypt) but history in the area (namely the First Jewish War) required a character with a stronger identity to sway the Jews (hence the later creation of all the gospels.)
Great and very informative response as usual.
By the way, its valid of course to skip mythicist because it doesn't interest you, but it is interesting that the hypothesis seems to be being no-platformed by the main atthheist TH-cam channels. History Valley has now blacklisted Drs Carrier and Price, Gnosticc Informant rants and raves regularly about his opinion on how ridiculous the hypothesis is, Paulogia always dismisses it as uninteresting, and Mythvision aat least gives a platform to Dr Carrier but openly states that Jesus existed.
Godless Engineer seems to be the only one taking the hypothesis seriously, and that's a pity. I think the general perception is that if Jesus didn't exist then we have nothing to talk about, or possibly people who haven't looked into it just assume it's a crazy conspiracy theory.
But it isn't.
And it would be nice to see it explored in as much detail as other aspects of the new testament, such as all the videos about the Q hypothesis, the geography of the gospels, or externally verifiable evidence for gospel claims.
By "infallible" I think they mean "un-falsifiable."
16.53 before Eric hits the empty tomb, my personal all time pet-peeve. Gah. The tomb was empty, it was empty, riddle me that!! Tide goes in! Tide goes out! Never. A. Miscommunication. How do you explain that, eh?
Oh, there was a law against moving bodies from graves, huh? Well, I'm sure that settles it.
And yes, doesn't this law, if anything, hint at the fact that robbing bodies from tombs was actually not all that rare? Hence the fact that there is a law regarding it?
I can't even follow the point that they are trying to make. Maybe my brain is turning into mush.
11:18 tye biggest issue with this "they died for a lie" for me is the implied assertion that the reason they were killed was the believing. In the record provided by Pliny around 110, Christians are being killed not because of their beliefs but because they are being disruptive.
There are good reasons to write off prophecy as proof, but one of them is not “because it is in the same book”, because it wasn’t the same book until hundreds of years after JC supposedly lived