Thank you, i just laid mine on sand in my garden, has dropped a dash over a few years but still overall pleased. Might try this way if i do again in future.
They can last some time on sand, it's just not as permanent as on mortar as the bed can be moved about by water and burrowed by ants etc. But still effective in the right situation!
@@AllOutMedia-x3w I used builders sand, sand quality can differ depending on where you are though. Yea type one sub base will be all you’ll need for a base, just whack down well
Great video. I'd love to do a proper job like this in my garden but might struggle with mixing the mortar, due to access issues to get a mixer in the garden, and my physical inability to mix that much mortar by hand. Do you rate any of the dry ready mixed products, such as Blue Circle's Slab Layer product, where you put the mix down dry and sprinkle with water, then lay the slab on? They look easier to use for someone like me, but I'm just worried the slabs won't stick properly. (I'll be using 450x450mm concrete slabs to make a small shed base.)
Thanks! I don’t have experience of dry ready mixed products sorry. Blue Circle make very good products so the slab layer bags must be pretty good, may be an expensive way of doing it though. If you’re concerned for them sticking you could use a cement based primer on the underside of the slab. If it is a dry product though it might not be that easy to level a slab on. If it’s for a shed base you could lay them on compacted sand although they won’t be as solid on mortar and won’t last the test of time. Another option is gravel grids filled with gravel to put the shed on
@@SamDaviesBuilder Thanks for your reply. I'll definitely look into your suggestions before I make a final decision on how to proceed. Was unaware of the gravel grids, that might be a good option for me.
Brilliant video sam - thanks. I'm a complete beginner and this has given me enough confidence to have a go. I only have to lay 4 slabs so is it ok to use the flat side of a sledge hammer to tamp down my hardcore that I will lay as the base? I'm following you as you very professional and don't waste time.
Hi, yes you can use the sledge hammer to compact the hardcore, another way is to use the flat surface of the shovel to give it a good whack down. Thanks for the view too 😃
Thanks. I do have a few videos on mixing on my channel, if you want to take a look. For a mixer full (electric mixer) I’d put couple of small glugs from a 5L bottle. how much plasticiser you need can depend on the quality of sand and the quality of cement. I try and use as little as possible as if you put too much in it can add too much air to the mix
If you’ve been advised to use slurry you need to lay them like I do with mortar here but then use a cement based slurry on pasted on the back of the slab just before you lay it to aid adhesion
@SamDaviesBuilder great video and very easy to follow thanks 👍 i have the old concrete in my garden which is easily over a foot below my house when i step out. Would you recommend using a breaker and stripping the whole lot out or building a sublayer on top using the MOT material? Would this move as the MOT would be sitting on concrete? Least to say there will be a lot of levelling as the concrete to side of the house takes a dip away from the house for water drainage. Sorry for the essay and appreciate your advice!
Hi, thanks for the compliment! How much do you think you’re building up with mot? As long as it’s 100mm+ you’ll be fine putting mot on the concrete. Any less and it might move about
@@SamDaviesBuilder swift response thanks! The dip from the house to the garden is easily 300mm+ i don't plan on having it flush anyways as I'm planning to build a step. Can you also confirm how often mot should be compacted every 25mm?
@@SamDaviesBuilderonce compacted, is it built up by sand? When is the weed membrane installed? Sorry for all the questions, new to this all and never had a go at landscaping before. But with your video it's given me confidence to give it a go! Thanks
@@Physocrusher if you’re going over old concrete there is no need for weed membrane. But normally if we put stone on top of dug out ground the weed membrane would go down first then all the hardcore. Ideally you’d leave your hardcore a little higher to allow for it reducing in height once compacted, but it’s never an exact science. You can just top up with more hardcore and compact that in again
Is this on top of a mot bed? Sorry I am just interested as I want mine done and I am thinking about DIY as not confident with the people I spoke to. This gent seems really good.
Thanks for the tips. I will be doing crazy paving with irregular shape slabs soon. I have a question: will 25mm bed do the trick when passenger car is parked on top? The slabs have different thickness as well (between 25mm and 45mm) so I will try to use thicker ones to cover the area where car is to be parked.
Hi, I’d definitely do a thicker bed than 25mm if you’re driving over them. I’d say 50mm beds personally - although I’ve never done paving like that for a car to park on
Hope you can help out with this. For context to the questions let’s say I use a 40oz container for each part of my sand and cement. In other words, I’ll put 40oz of sand 5 times and 40oz of cement once per mix. 1. Why is plasticiser necessary for the 5:1 ratio? 2. Could I go without it and have a strong base for the pavers? 3. What do I lose without it even if I’ve got the 5 parts sand and 1 part cement? Is it worth tripping about? 4. If I’ve got to use it, any alternatives to plasticiser for the 5:1 ratio because from my brief research it seems like it isn’t common to find in the US in 5L? 5. Given the context above, how much plasticiser should I pour into the 40oz container per 5:1 sand/cement mix? 6. Would I still need to use a weed barrier underneath the 4-6 inch gravel base since a full layer of mortar is being used under each paver. 7. Do you still brush in polymeric sand between the joints when using this method (i.e. the 5:1 mortar mix) as the base for paver? Would appreciate any links to good plasticisers in the US and also any alternatives.
Hi, I may struggle to answer these correctly as you are in the US and things will be different to the UK. 1: Plasticiser adds air to the mix and increases its workability, we wouldn't be able to make a mix without plasticiser here. 2: I wouldn't recommend going without it but you can try 3: You lose the workability of the mix (if you are laying with a dry mix then you don't need plasticiser) 4: You may have another name for plasticiser in the US? 5: Each brand of plasticiser will have different amounts you need to put in a mix, it will explain on the bottle what you should put in for amounts of sand/cement. 6: I've done jobs without a weed barrier before the stone and they have been fine but it can help to stop the stone mixing with the soil underneath. 7: You can brush in the sand like you say but over here we point between the gaps with sand and cement as we do 12mm gaps between this style of slabs. Hope this helps you
I only need to do a small area. I had some bagged leftover Cotswold stones can this be used as the hardcore ? And instead of hiring a compactor can I just use a whacker plate?
No, you can’t use Cotswold stones, you need hard-core that is small and big stones in it so it all packs together tight. I would call a compactor and a whacker plate the same thing. What do you mean by a whacker plate?
Hi Sam, that's brilliant. Please can you help with these 3 questions. What quantities of Sub base, cement and sharp sand was used in this project (I have exactly same area to cover with same slabs) ? How long did it take you for entire process? Do we really need to leave space between the slabs or can they be laid next to each other?
Hi, thanks for watching. I use a website www.pavingexpert.com which has calculators to work out all the quantities needed. For me and a labourer, this would probably take two days. You can lay the slabs next to each other but you will probably get weeds coming up through the joints at some point. Hope this helps!
@@SamDaviesBuilder Thanks Sam, this is so helpful. Also I found out today that there is a concrete base at 3.5 inch from the proposed top of Patio, can we do without laying a sub base. How much would it cost roughly if I have get it done by a professional. Thanks again.
@@chanderhooda389 honestly I couldn’t give you a figure on price as it’s varies so much throughout the country. A concrete base would be fine to lay on. If you need to build up the height though you would still need hard-core (sub base) as you don’t want to stupidly deep mortar bed
What sand do you use in the mortar, soft or sharp? How much plasticiser do you need to use? Also I don't see you using spacers like you would in tiling to get the gaps spot on each time? Also in laying this patio have you factored in a drop so water drains off? Thanks for making and sharing.
Hi Alex, Thanks for watching. I use a building sand (we don’t get much choice of sand here in West Wales, we just have a choice of building or plastering sand). Plasticiser will depend on the brand, I use the concentrated stuff and it would be 5ml per mixer full. For joint widths I go 12mm with these style slabs, if you are a first timer I’d use 12mm ply cut down as spacers but I have been doing it long enough to not use spacers. Fall for allowing water run off will depend on the type of slab, I always factor in a fall. You want it level one way and fall the other way, a fall in both directions can be very tricky. I’ll do a more detailed video with digging out, base, fall etc one day I just waited to show the process for laying a slab in this one
We use to use 2 plastering sand 2 sharp sand 1 cement mixer up with a little splash of SPR or UniBond mix up same you have done 👍 with Sharp sand give the more sturdier on bed all way lick the back of the slabs with a bucket 1 shovel of cement a mix-up like a creamy paste then put a little bit spr or UniBond then get a 4 inch paint brush paint on the back of slab be down solid you'll find hard to get up again try it see what you think Alex 👍
Can't you just lay these slabs onto the limestone screening or crushed stone etc., without mortar adhering it ? When would you choose to use a bonding agent opposed to just an install that is floating on top of a stable base?
I’d never lay these slabs on just a stone base without mortar - it wouldn’t take long for them to move. The only slabs I’d say you can lay on a stone base without mortar is the 900x600x50mm council slabs as they’re so heavy they won’t move. This is in the UK though so if you are in a different country then things might be done differently….
Don’t need to be MOT type one, that just refers to the certification for it to be used on roads. ( and usually more expensive ) Depending on how much you want to pay,and what’s available to you in your area, 50 crusher run Limestone or 40mm crushed hardcore are probably most common, if you only got a small area, Concrete Fines can be a good choice. As long as all compacted well.
@@stevebrown5145 good points but most DIY’ers will get tonne bags delivered from say Jewsons and MOT type 1 will be what they sell or sub base. If you get it tipped loose then it’s easier to get hold of recycled aggregate or something like that but you’ll only see the savings with a lorry full
I’ve done a few on slopes and they can be tricky as you either have to dig into the slope a lot or build the back up to get it more level. When it’s sloping both ways it’s even worse!
I recently got my patio extended. The guy was happy the bed was already solid (quite chalky clay ground) so didn't lay a sub base. He did 4:1 mix. A few slabs were wobbly days later. The guy came back and put some more mix under the wobbly slabs, they seem ok, but some more are now wobbly. Then I noticed some of the original slabs laid 18 months ago are wobbly, so not just the new ones he laid. I'm in a new build. I've seen the blueprints for the patio, the original sub base is .75 type 1, but some of those slabs are wobbly too. Any advice besides ripping up an entire patio and starting again?
@@SamDaviesBuilder I think it was dry. 4:1 sharp sand to cement. He said let it settle for a day and then water the patio which till wet it so it sets.
@@daniel-j-harris I’d only ever lay on a wet mix like in this video. Laying dry mix never seems to work so I’d personally say your base is fine but what he laid it on is poor. What country are you in?
Daniel...use a wet mix ..lift them up one by one and simply drop a mix under them... But I would have put a sub base of stone down, chalky clay ground is fine when it's dry, when it's wet it turns to mush and will move.. My advice, pull them up, put down a layer of stone, get it compact, and then lay your first flag down with wet mortar and a spirit level, and work from that... It's not rocket science and you can do it yourself...there's no real skill in it...just patience.
Hi Sam About to start laying pavers for my shed base which will be 8' x 6'. how many bags of sand and cement do you think I'll need please. First timer here but desperate to DIY.
Hi, assuming a 50mm deep bed and for a 6:1 mix you’d need roughly 0.3 tonne sand and 3 bags of cement. I used the calculator on www.pavingexpert.com to work it out
@@SamDaviesBuilder thanks for the prompt reply. Much appreciated. I listened to your commentary about the depth of mortar that you use “no more than 35mm” so the recommendation using the calculator of 50mm seems a little overkill to me. What are your thoughts?
@@SamDaviesBuilder hi Sam me again. Sorry to bug you but I used the calculator and I got a different result. It’s probably me being thick but the result I got was 1tonne sand and 9 bags of cement. That’s for 8’ x 6’ area = 13.44sq mtrs. Is it me !?!?!
@@Eileen0656 I used the 50mm example as that’s what their calculator was set to. I’d go off the quantities for 50mm as it’s always better to have a bit too much material than not enough. I always do 30/35mm beds, as long as the base you are going on is good then those depth beds are fine
Thanks Steve. On these types of slab I don’t - I’ve always had them stick tidy when using a mix like I use. If it’s porcelain I’m laying I definitely would use a primer. Make sure you enter my competition to win £50! It’s on one of my recent videos…
Hi, thanks. No when laying on a wet mix like this then you wouldn’t put water over the top afterwards. You’d be able to walk on it the next day (if the middle of winter then you’d probably have to leave it an extra day before walking on it.
Folks..this is the best way to lay flags, mortar..they will not move one inch.. The lazy way of simply dropping them on sand which sits on top of stone is a waste of time...
Thanks Colin, those who understand this method know how they should be laid. People leave them on sand and think it’s amazing as it’s so quick but it doesn’t take long for them to move and then it’s the expense of having to start again!
@@SamDaviesBuilder Correct, taking the easy route can be longer, to be honest rocking them and resetting them, to walk over them in a day or two and feel another rocking, or even cracked flag is a pian.. they will move, and move again...take the time to mix up mortor like you have done and set them, they go off very quick and there's no messing after that...
Spot bed is a no no, it creates voids which can trap water and then freeze/thaw in the winter. You can also get the spots showing through onto the face of the slab
@@BradJamie-zz3pf just ensure you dig out so you can get minimum 100mm of sub base (mot type 1) in and compacted and then lay your slabs on a 30-40mm mortar bed (5 parts sand 1 part cement with plasticiser). Make sure you get the mix right, there’s a few videos on how to mix on my channel. Any more advice just ask
I don’t need to use spacers with these…I can get them perfect with a 12mm joint. You don’t need to primer this type of slab if you have a decent wet mix like this. However, if you’re laying porcelain then use spacers and use cement based primer on the back of the slab :)
I don’t slurry man-made ones like these, as long as you’re using a decent mix, it will stick (I would slurry steps and copings though even with man-made). However, I do slurry porcelain and natural stone slabs.
@@SamDaviesBuilder I’ve never paved before, but going to lift my patio and try and re lay. They are the old council flags that are huge lol, is it worth slurrying them down you think?
@@sprre3899 make sure you hire the tool in the video below if you have another person to help, it makes the job very easy th-cam.com/video/yqkO54x4MBw/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Cowboy installation. No primer used on the underside of the slabs, these will just delaminate and come loose in short while. He wasted his time and effort. Customer was mugged.
If you know your stuff you’d realise that concrete slabs like these will adhere fine to a good wet mix. I’ve never had one come loose. You’re welcome to come and visit this job with me. You need primer on porcelain and natural stone, however you can use primer on concrete slabs too if you wish.
@@johnhill1421 I would dig out you can get at least 100 mm of sub base in and compact. And then lay the slabs on 30 ish mm of a 5:1 sand and cement wet mix. I’ve attached a link for making a good mix th-cam.com/video/TZFU3mDgccg/w-d-xo.html
This man knows his stuff.
Thanks John
Just brilliant
He explained and shows it without any nonsense great job
Thankyou, I really appreciate your comment!
That looks like a perfect mix. Very nicework.
Thank you very much! 👍🙏
Thank you, i just laid mine on sand in my garden, has dropped a dash over a few years but still overall pleased. Might try this way if i do again in future.
They can last some time on sand, it's just not as permanent as on mortar as the bed can be moved about by water and burrowed by ants etc. But still effective in the right situation!
Guarantee you'll be re-laying those mate. Complete bed of mortar every time.
@@stephenoverthrow2463 me personally laying I wouldn’t put it on anything but mortar
Thanks mate. Very helpful. Going to lay some this weekend!
No problem 👍 let me know how it goes
@@SamDaviesBuilder what sand you using ? Sharp or builders sand? if I want to do this do I just need Mot Type one sub base that’s all ?
@@AllOutMedia-x3w I used builders sand, sand quality can differ depending on where you are though.
Yea type one sub base will be all you’ll need for a base, just whack down well
@@SamDaviesBuilder thank you for that much appreciated. if I want to grout the joints on a dry mix , what sand should I be using please
Great video. I'd love to do a proper job like this in my garden but might struggle with mixing the mortar, due to access issues to get a mixer in the garden, and my physical inability to mix that much mortar by hand. Do you rate any of the dry ready mixed products, such as Blue Circle's Slab Layer product, where you put the mix down dry and sprinkle with water, then lay the slab on? They look easier to use for someone like me, but I'm just worried the slabs won't stick properly. (I'll be using 450x450mm concrete slabs to make a small shed base.)
Thanks! I don’t have experience of dry ready mixed products sorry. Blue Circle make very good products so the slab layer bags must be pretty good, may be an expensive way of doing it though. If you’re concerned for them sticking you could use a cement based primer on the underside of the slab. If it is a dry product though it might not be that easy to level a slab on.
If it’s for a shed base you could lay them on compacted sand although they won’t be as solid on mortar and won’t last the test of time. Another option is gravel grids filled with gravel to put the shed on
@@SamDaviesBuilder Thanks for your reply. I'll definitely look into your suggestions before I make a final decision on how to proceed. Was unaware of the gravel grids, that might be a good option for me.
Great video, good work 👍. Thank you for sharing.
No problem, glad you liked it 😄
I used around 1-2 inches of concrete with mesh as base for the slabs that I put in my whole backyard and I have drainage as well. Is it good or bad?
What part of the world are you in?
@SamDaviesBuilder Dublin, Ireland
@ usually you need more concrete around mesh to stop it rusting but I’m sure it will still be strong
@@SamDaviesBuilder ok thanks a lot 👍👍
@ no problem 😃
Brilliant video sam - thanks. I'm a complete beginner and this has given me enough confidence to have a go. I only have to lay 4 slabs so is it ok to use the flat side of a sledge hammer to tamp down my hardcore that I will lay as the base? I'm following you as you very professional and don't waste time.
Hi, yes you can use the sledge hammer to compact the hardcore, another way is to use the flat surface of the shovel to give it a good whack down. Thanks for the view too 😃
Many thanks
One tip for you mate , you can sprinkle cement before layong pave for it to settle firmly
Thanks but I’m laying on mortar so it goes hard anyway
Great video, quick question what cement did you use pleased?
I used Blue Circle cement. 5:1 mix (5 sand 1 cement) with plasticiser. Please see my channel for how to mix videos
@@SamDaviesBuilder Thank you
Great video, how much plasteriser do you add?
Thanks. I do have a few videos on mixing on my channel, if you want to take a look.
For a mixer full (electric mixer) I’d put couple of small glugs from a 5L bottle. how much plasticiser you need can depend on the quality of sand and the quality of cement. I try and use as little as possible as if you put too much in it can add too much air to the mix
I have some loose slabs and advised to use a slurry mix. Can I just use a mortar mix or should I include sbr?
If you’ve been advised to use slurry you need to lay them like I do with mortar here but then use a cement based slurry on pasted on the back of the slab just before you lay it to aid adhesion
@SamDaviesBuilder great video and very easy to follow thanks 👍
i have the old concrete in my garden which is easily over a foot below my house when i step out.
Would you recommend using a breaker and stripping the whole lot out or building a sublayer on top using the MOT material?
Would this move as the MOT would be sitting on concrete? Least to say there will be a lot of levelling as the concrete to side of the house takes a dip away from the house for water drainage.
Sorry for the essay and appreciate your advice!
Hi, thanks for the compliment! How much do you think you’re building up with mot? As long as it’s 100mm+ you’ll be fine putting mot on the concrete. Any less and it might move about
@@SamDaviesBuilder swift response thanks! The dip from the house to the garden is easily 300mm+ i don't plan on having it flush anyways as I'm planning to build a step.
Can you also confirm how often mot should be compacted every 25mm?
@@Physocrusher I’d compact every 75-100mm, make sure you have a good sized whacker too
@@SamDaviesBuilderonce compacted, is it built up by sand? When is the weed membrane installed?
Sorry for all the questions, new to this all and never had a go at landscaping before.
But with your video it's given me confidence to give it a go! Thanks
@@Physocrusher if you’re going over old concrete there is no need for weed membrane. But normally if we put stone on top of dug out ground the weed membrane would go down first then all the hardcore.
Ideally you’d leave your hardcore a little higher to allow for it reducing in height once compacted, but it’s never an exact science. You can just top up with more hardcore and compact that in again
Is this on top of a mot bed? Sorry I am just interested as I want mine done and I am thinking about DIY as not confident with the people I spoke to. This gent seems really good.
Yea this is on top of around 100mm of mot type 1 or sub base. 100-150mm is the usual depth for it
Is it best to avoid using a spirit level with slabs like this that have a ribboned pattern on top?
You should still use your spirit level to set the fall but then you can use string lines. (You can still use a level easy enough on the riven pattern)
@@SamDaviesBuilder thank you 👍.
Thanks for the tips. I will be doing crazy paving with irregular shape slabs soon.
I have a question: will 25mm bed do the trick when passenger car is parked on top? The slabs have different thickness as well (between 25mm and 45mm) so I will try to use thicker ones to cover the area where car is to be parked.
Hi, I’d definitely do a thicker bed than 25mm if you’re driving over them. I’d say 50mm beds personally - although I’ve never done paving like that for a car to park on
good video, please show how to start the 1st slab and distance from edge, also how to fill the gaps between the slabs, what material to use. thanks
Hi, there is videos on how to point a patio on my channel :)
Just broke two with a lump hammer handle, lesson learned 😅
🤣🤣 we’ve all done something similar before
What thickness of subbase are you using?
Minimum of 100mm on this one. Always aim for at least that, ideally closer to 150mm.
Thanks for the tips. No BS and very clear, thanks.
Thanks, glad it was helpful!
Hi great video would yoou leave a space for beveled edge flag or butt them together
I’d have to see a picture of the bevelled edge flag. Have you got a link to which one it is?
@SamDaviesBuilder thankyou for reply the for for out back door I only need to put 12 down
@@hindleymanb6626 I’d always point between but ideally would have to see the slab first to make a proper decision
@SamDaviesBuilder ok thankyou and what's smallest joint I could use
@@hindleymanb6626 10mm I’d say. You can do 5mm if it’s porcelain
what do you use to fill the Gap between the slabs?
Hi, if you’d like to browse my channel I have a few videos on how I point a patio
Hope you can help out with this. For context to the questions let’s say I use a 40oz container for each part of my sand and cement. In other words, I’ll put 40oz of sand 5 times and 40oz of cement once per mix.
1. Why is plasticiser necessary for the 5:1 ratio?
2. Could I go without it and have a strong base for the pavers?
3. What do I lose without it even if I’ve got the 5 parts sand and 1 part cement? Is it worth tripping about?
4. If I’ve got to use it, any alternatives to plasticiser for the 5:1 ratio because from my brief research it seems like it isn’t common to find in the US in 5L?
5. Given the context above, how much plasticiser should I pour into the 40oz container per 5:1 sand/cement mix?
6. Would I still need to use a weed barrier underneath the 4-6 inch gravel base since a full layer of mortar is being used under each paver.
7. Do you still brush in polymeric sand between the joints when using this method (i.e. the 5:1 mortar mix) as the base for paver?
Would appreciate any links to good plasticisers in the US and also any alternatives.
Hi,
I may struggle to answer these correctly as you are in the US and things will be different to the UK.
1: Plasticiser adds air to the mix and increases its workability, we wouldn't be able to make a mix without plasticiser here.
2: I wouldn't recommend going without it but you can try
3: You lose the workability of the mix (if you are laying with a dry mix then you don't need plasticiser)
4: You may have another name for plasticiser in the US?
5: Each brand of plasticiser will have different amounts you need to put in a mix, it will explain on the bottle what you should put in for amounts of sand/cement.
6: I've done jobs without a weed barrier before the stone and they have been fine but it can help to stop the stone mixing with the soil underneath.
7: You can brush in the sand like you say but over here we point between the gaps with sand and cement as we do 12mm gaps between this style of slabs.
Hope this helps you
I only need to do a small area. I had some bagged leftover Cotswold stones can this be used as the hardcore ? And instead of hiring a compactor can I just use a whacker plate?
Good video by the way
No, you can’t use Cotswold stones, you need hard-core that is small and big stones in it so it all packs together tight.
I would call a compactor and a whacker plate the same thing. What do you mean by a whacker plate?
@@SamDaviesBuilder maybe he meant a hand tamp?
@@hashmo101 possibly!
Hi Sam, that's brilliant. Please can you help with these 3 questions. What quantities of Sub base, cement and sharp sand was used in this project (I have exactly same area to cover with same slabs) ? How long did it take you for entire process? Do we really need to leave space between the slabs or can they be laid next to each other?
Hi, thanks for watching.
I use a website www.pavingexpert.com which has calculators to work out all the quantities needed.
For me and a labourer, this would probably take two days. You can lay the slabs next to each other but you will probably get weeds coming up through the joints at some point.
Hope this helps!
@@SamDaviesBuilder Thanks Sam, this is so helpful. Also I found out today that there is a concrete base at 3.5 inch from the proposed top of Patio, can we do without laying a sub base. How much would it cost roughly if I have get it done by a professional. Thanks again.
@@chanderhooda389 honestly I couldn’t give you a figure on price as it’s varies so much throughout the country.
A concrete base would be fine to lay on. If you need to build up the height though you would still need hard-core (sub base) as you don’t want to stupidly deep mortar bed
Thanks Sam. Noted.
Can these be painted successfully?
I suppose you could but I imagine it would wear off over time
What sand do you use in the mortar, soft or sharp?
How much plasticiser do you need to use?
Also I don't see you using spacers like you would in tiling to get the gaps spot on each time?
Also in laying this patio have you factored in a drop so water drains off?
Thanks for making and sharing.
Hi Alex,
Thanks for watching.
I use a building sand (we don’t get much choice of sand here in West Wales, we just have a choice of building or plastering sand). Plasticiser will depend on the brand, I use the concentrated stuff and it would be 5ml per mixer full. For joint widths I go 12mm with these style slabs, if you are a first timer I’d use 12mm ply cut down as spacers but I have been doing it long enough to not use spacers. Fall for allowing water run off will depend on the type of slab, I always factor in a fall. You want it level one way and fall the other way, a fall in both directions can be very tricky.
I’ll do a more detailed video with digging out, base, fall etc one day I just waited to show the process for laying a slab in this one
We use to use 2 plastering sand 2 sharp sand 1 cement mixer up with a little splash of SPR or UniBond mix up same you have done 👍 with Sharp sand give the more sturdier on bed all way lick the back of the slabs with a bucket 1 shovel of cement a mix-up like a creamy paste then put a little bit spr or UniBond then get a 4 inch paint brush paint on the back of slab be down solid you'll find hard to get up again try it see what you think Alex 👍
Do you need to put a primer coat on the slab or is that just for porcelain ?
On this type with a wet mix there is no need - I have never had any issues.
With porcelain and natural stone you need to use a cement based primer
Can't you just lay these slabs onto the limestone screening or crushed stone etc., without mortar adhering it ? When would you choose to use a bonding agent opposed to just an install that is floating on top of a stable base?
I’d never lay these slabs on just a stone base without mortar - it wouldn’t take long for them to move.
The only slabs I’d say you can lay on a stone base without mortar is the 900x600x50mm council slabs as they’re so heavy they won’t move.
This is in the UK though so if you are in a different country then things might be done differently….
What sort of stone do I need to use please?
I’d use sub base (can also be known as MOT type 1). If you want something for a final 25/50mm layer to fine tune levels then 20mm/dust can be used
Don’t need to be MOT type one, that just refers to the certification for it to be used on roads. ( and usually more expensive )
Depending on how much you want to pay,and what’s available to you in your area, 50 crusher run Limestone or 40mm crushed hardcore are probably most common, if you only got a small area, Concrete Fines can be a good choice.
As long as all compacted well.
@@stevebrown5145 good points but most DIY’ers will get tonne bags delivered from say Jewsons and MOT type 1 will be what they sell or sub base. If you get it tipped loose then it’s easier to get hold of recycled aggregate or something like that but you’ll only see the savings with a lorry full
Me and my mate did a 22 metre squared patio in my garden over the last 3 weekends… layed it on mortar, much better way and much longer lasting
Yes always the best way laid on mortar 😃
Nice work. I need you at my van. It's on a slope and I'm dreading digging out and laying a patio 😭
I’ve done a few on slopes and they can be tricky as you either have to dig into the slope a lot or build the back up to get it more level. When it’s sloping both ways it’s even worse!
I recently got my patio extended. The guy was happy the bed was already solid (quite chalky clay ground) so didn't lay a sub base. He did 4:1 mix. A few slabs were wobbly days later. The guy came back and put some more mix under the wobbly slabs, they seem ok, but some more are now wobbly. Then I noticed some of the original slabs laid 18 months ago are wobbly, so not just the new ones he laid. I'm in a new build. I've seen the blueprints for the patio, the original sub base is .75 type 1, but some of those slabs are wobbly too.
Any advice besides ripping up an entire patio and starting again?
Hi Dan, do you know if he laid the slabs in a wet mix like I did or a dry mix?
@@SamDaviesBuilder I think it was dry. 4:1 sharp sand to cement. He said let it settle for a day and then water the patio which till wet it so it sets.
@@daniel-j-harris I’d only ever lay on a wet mix like in this video. Laying dry mix never seems to work so I’d personally say your base is fine but what he laid it on is poor. What country are you in?
Daniel...use a wet mix ..lift them up one by one and simply drop a mix under them... But I would have put a sub base of stone down, chalky clay ground is fine when it's dry, when it's wet it turns to mush and will move.. My advice, pull them up, put down a layer of stone, get it compact, and then lay your first flag down with wet mortar and a spirit level, and work from that... It's not rocket science and you can do it yourself...there's no real skill in it...just patience.
@@colinstewart6367 I did in the end, worked fine, all sitting nice a still now.
Can you I cement mix as well or do you think mortal is better?
Mortar is what you lay it on - sand and cement…
I see you have used rocks underlay... Can I dig the grass out and lay the cement straight on the ground?
No I’d always lay a stone base and compact
Looks easy enough although ive not got a clue on how to make up mortar as DIYer
There’s a few videos of how to mix on my channel
Hiya mate are these riven buff?
Cheers
Hi, yes they are. From Jewson I think they were
@@SamDaviesBuilder cheers mate just double checking I’m ordering the right ones. Thank you
@@JayE1996_ they used to be cheap as chips but since Covid they’ve gone up so much
@@SamDaviesBuilder yeah It’s crazy mate I thought that I’m a plasterer and multi went from a fiver to a tenner!
@@JayE1996_ and it’ll never come down again sadly
Dont have to be primed?
I don’t prime these type of slabs. I would prime Porcelain/sandstone/slate slabs though
Nice video. May I know what type of patio slab you used.?
Hi, I used a basic 450x450mm patio slab. Jewsons own brand ‘Ultipro Farndon’
Hi Sam
About to start laying pavers for my shed base which will be 8' x 6'. how many bags of sand and cement do you think I'll need please. First timer here but desperate to DIY.
Hi, assuming a 50mm deep bed and for a 6:1 mix you’d need roughly 0.3 tonne sand and 3 bags of cement. I used the calculator on www.pavingexpert.com to work it out
@@SamDaviesBuilder thanks for the prompt reply. Much appreciated. I listened to your commentary about the depth of mortar that you use “no more than 35mm” so the recommendation using the calculator of 50mm seems a little overkill to me. What are your thoughts?
@@SamDaviesBuilder hi Sam me again. Sorry to bug you but I used the calculator and I got a different result. It’s probably me being thick but the result I got was 1tonne sand and 9 bags of cement. That’s for 8’ x 6’ area = 13.44sq mtrs. Is it me !?!?!
@@Eileen0656 I used the 50mm example as that’s what their calculator was set to. I’d go off the quantities for 50mm as it’s always better to have a bit too much material than not enough. I always do 30/35mm beds, as long as the base you are going on is good then those depth beds are fine
@@Eileen0656 that shouldn’t be 13 square metres? I had it more like 4 square metres. What are the measurements you are doing in metres?
Thank you, that's brilliant stuff 👍
No problem 😃😃
Hi sam
Great video mate. Do you prime the underside of the slabs before laying?
Cheers
Thanks Steve. On these types of slab I don’t - I’ve always had them stick tidy when using a mix like I use. If it’s porcelain I’m laying I definitely would use a primer.
Make sure you enter my competition to win £50! It’s on one of my recent videos…
What primer would you use ?
Excellent video. Clear explanation. 🇮🇪 👍🏻
Glad it was helpful! 🙏
thanks very much for uploading
No problem at all 😃
Do you need slurry ? you did not use it But i have been told its a must... any comment of not using it please.
I don’t use slurry on these type of slabs but I would definitely use slurry on porcelain slabs and natural stone slabs
@@SamDaviesBuilder Thanks for the reply, I'm just glad i don't have to redo my back patio. because i did not use slurry....
@@tonycat721 you should be fine…I’ve never used slurry on these slabs and never had any come loose
Thanks for your advise. Very helpful.
No problem, glad it was a help!
Brilliant video thank you
Thankyou!
Hi. Great video, I was just wondering wether you add water all over it once completed? And how long does it take to set. Thanks.
Hi, thanks. No when laying on a wet mix like this then you wouldn’t put water over the top afterwards. You’d be able to walk on it the next day (if the middle of winter then you’d probably have to leave it an extra day before walking on it.
I needed to talk about the base!
Hi Paul, I will try and do one in future about the base for a patio
Nice work - how long did that area take you lay overall (i.e. including digging out the base)?
Why can't you spot lay those slabs as they are not porous?
Spot laying has nothing to do with whether a slab is porous or not. It’s just bad practice to do it
@@SamDaviesBuilder people have spot layed flags especially of that size for a long time without many issues, I dont agree it's always best practice .
@@robertwilkinson8198 I know there may very well be some without issues but a solid bed can eliminate any future problems (if done correctly)
Folks..this is the best way to lay flags, mortar..they will not move one inch.. The lazy way of simply dropping them on sand which sits on top of stone is a waste of time...
Thanks Colin, those who understand this method know how they should be laid. People leave them on sand and think it’s amazing as it’s so quick but it doesn’t take long for them to move and then it’s the expense of having to start again!
@@SamDaviesBuilder Correct, taking the easy route can be longer, to be honest rocking them and resetting them, to walk over them in a day or two and feel another rocking, or even cracked flag is a pian.. they will move, and move again...take the time to mix up mortor like you have done and set them, they go off very quick and there's no messing after that...
@@colinstewart6367 yea and a properly mortared slab will never need redoing!
@@SamDaviesBuilder Gonna get that done over me grave when I kick it...just in case I rise with bad weather😛😛😛
@@colinstewart6367 🤣🤣🤣
Why not spot bed?
Spot bed is a no no, it creates voids which can trap water and then freeze/thaw in the winter. You can also get the spots showing through onto the face of the slab
Plus it leaves space for vermin, insect nests etc.
@@CurtisLodge1991 very good reasons not to spot bed
This the same with normal garden slabs
Yea these are just your standard garden slabs
@@SamDaviesBuilder just got my first house never done something like this and wanted to test myself any tips
@@BradJamie-zz3pf just ensure you dig out so you can get minimum 100mm of sub base (mot type 1) in and compacted and then lay your slabs on a 30-40mm mortar bed (5 parts sand 1 part cement with plasticiser). Make sure you get the mix right, there’s a few videos on how to mix on my channel. Any more advice just ask
no spacers or buttering the back of the slab with slurry
I don’t need to use spacers with these…I can get them perfect with a 12mm joint. You don’t need to primer this type of slab if you have a decent wet mix like this.
However, if you’re laying porcelain then use spacers and use cement based primer on the back of the slab :)
You should do a 4/1 mixed with sharp sand with little drop spr in mixed it nice solid bed 👍
Our sand is pretty sharp so minus the sbr I’m not far off what you do
Don’t you slurry the underside of the flags?
I don’t slurry man-made ones like these, as long as you’re using a decent mix, it will stick (I would slurry steps and copings though even with man-made).
However, I do slurry porcelain and natural stone slabs.
@@SamDaviesBuilder I’ve never paved before, but going to lift my patio and try and re lay. They are the old council flags that are huge lol, is it worth slurrying them down you think?
@@sprre3899 I personally wouldn’t bother on those type of slabs as they are so heavy they’ll never move on a mortar base. Are they the 600 x 900 ones?
@@SamDaviesBuilder Yes 600x900, they are huge and heavy
@@sprre3899 make sure you hire the tool in the video below if you have another person to help, it makes the job very easy
th-cam.com/video/yqkO54x4MBw/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
The grain the wrong way mate
🤣🤣
Cowboy installation. No primer used on the underside of the slabs, these will just delaminate and come loose in short while. He wasted his time and effort. Customer was mugged.
If you know your stuff you’d realise that concrete slabs like these will adhere fine to a good wet mix. I’ve never had one come loose. You’re welcome to come and visit this job with me.
You need primer on porcelain and natural stone, however you can use primer on concrete slabs too if you wish.
Should of primed the back of those slabs
I don't prime the back of these type slabs and never had an issue when using wet mix.
Porcelain and natural stone slabs should be primed though
Hi Sam what am I laying the slabs on thx
Hi John, do you mean the mortar or the stone base?
@@SamDaviesBuilder both I’m thinking of just extending our little patio which has slabs and block bricks cheers
@@johnhill1421 I would dig out you can get at least 100 mm of sub base in and compact. And then lay the slabs on 30 ish mm of a 5:1 sand and cement wet mix. I’ve attached a link for making a good mix
th-cam.com/video/TZFU3mDgccg/w-d-xo.html
Not being funny but…. Solid bed mortar… good…. But bonded would look better…
Just my opinion.
I never bond 450x450mm slabs but it does come down to personal preference
What do you use to space them out soe evenly?
I use my eye but 12mm ply you could cut into strips for these type of slabs