Best of American and Europe: the Webley No5 Express New Army
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Webley introduced their No5 Express New Army model revolver in 1878. This was essentially a ruggedized and scaled up variation on the No5 RIC revolvers that was very popular with police forces. The RIC was chambered for just the .450 Adams cartridge, and its ejection system in particular was not suitable to serious military campaigning. Hoping for a military contract, Webley took that No5 double-action clockwork and put it into a much bigger frame, capable of handling all patterns of British service cartridge as well as the American .45 Colt powerhouse. It then proceeded to lose the military adoption to the Enfield MkI, a frankly not very good design.
However, British officers had their own choice of sidearms, and many opted for the No5 Army Express, as evidenced by significant sales through the Army & Navy CSL catalog. The model was well liked and popular, but only for a fairly brief span. In 1887 the British adopted the top-break Webley MkI, and the development of new technology like smokeless powder and tip-out cylinders quickly rendered the No5 obsolete. But for about a decade, this was a very compelling choice, offering a reliably double action system with a powerful cartridge.
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This looks just how a revolver should. Elegant, powerful and reassuring.
agreed , my take on it too..
Yeah, couldn't agree more. Dammit, now I really want one
Ian is a treasure. One of the few youtubers that my interest in isn't just a fad. And his old videos are almost as good as his new ones, a rare feat. He started with a professional attitude and has stayed that way.
As a kid, I lived in a bungalow in Africa, where the building itself, the furniture and the entire contents had originally come as a package deal from the Army & Navy. We even had some of their old catalogues (1920s-50s) in a cupboard, each the size of a telephone directory and fascinating reading for a kid - particularly the firearms and expedition sections.
Interesting. In the USA about 100 years or so ago one could mail order a house using the Sears and/or JC Penny catalog.
@@kirbyculp3449 There are a lot of Sears&Roebuck houses throughout the mid-west. I've watched several videos depicting quite a number of them in Indiana and into Detroit. They look like rather nice mid-century US designs.
My brother lived in one, it was his wife's great grandfather's house. Built about 1911 if I remember right!
Do you Stihl have the catalogs?
Great video. I love Webley No. 5s. I recently covered this gun (though far less thoroughly) in my “Guns of Silverado” video. This gun was the reason I wanted to make that video. Thanks for making it!
Watched that. Excellent video!
I’ll have to check that video out
This must be Dr. Watson's "old Army pistol" that he carried on his adventures with Holmes.
He had a five shot 'bulldog' as well. He'd often just put two or three cartridges in it
Deductive reasoning…😝
Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce are my favourite Holmes and Watson.
@@grateberk6435good old Rathbone!
A new test of classic revolvers. How well do they drop into an overcoat pocket?
I have owned and fired Webleys and Enfields in 455 and 38-200, never knew that 476 was a variant of the 455. Thank you for a new lesson in firearms history.
If you really want more info on british calibers, and pistols, do check out C&Rsenal. The plethora of info and such they provide is no where else to be had, I promise !!
It's not just a deadly firearm but looks to be a pretty potent mace as well
“Heavy is good, heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work you can always hit them with it.” - Boris the Blade - "Snatch" 2000
I've never seen this revolver before, but I already love it.
Same here, never came across this one before! But man, it does cut a sexy silhouette.
Primer 178
Sniper Elite 4 was the first time I ever heard of it. Very loud (in the game)
@@2112splunge That was the Webley Mark VI, top-break, WW1 era.
Me too!!
I read a book called 'The First Hundred Thousand' about early volunteers for the British Army in WW1 and there's an amusing passage where the new young officers all turn up with a selection of unlikely sidearms including Colt 45s, Mauser Broomhandles and even a Luger. The colonel's response was 'take these all back where you got them and get a proper Webley!'
😂 It's cool that even as late as WW1 British officers where expected to buy their own sidearm, a practice dating back to the sword.
Winston Churchill was a big semi-auto man.
Apparently he carried a C96 in Sudan and the Boer War then got himself a 1911 when he went to the Western Front.
They didn't use revolvers much in action anyway, even at close quarters. One of my grandads was an infantry captain in WW1, he got a cheap double barrel 12 bore shotgun sent over that he sawed off for trench fighting. His men used improvised clubs or hatchets & everyone carried as many grenades as they could. In WW2 my dad & uncles were all officers in various services, all got issued some kind of pistol, again none were used in action & all were considered useless dead weight. Pistols are not viable front line weapons, they're for use against unarmed opposition. Like by police or whatever.
@@JoeyMills-y3v They used any pistols they could get ahold of in WW1 and you often see pictures of trench raiders with an assortment of pistols. Maybe your grandpa wasn't using his, but plenty of other men were. A pistol was one of the better options in a trench.
@@JoeyMills-y3v Yeah totally, I always remember reading a quote from a Vietnam veteran,
"If you find yourself in a combat situation and all you got is a pistol, you are in a *world* of sh*t"
I've heard of some pretty funky weapons in the trenches, apparently soilders were writing home requesting meat clevers, billhooks and alsorts.
Never head of a sawn off though, would have been the ideal weapon for the job of course.
In a narrow trench, hold it tight in at the hip, pull both triggers and hope for the best.
@@JoeyMills-y3v
Thanks, that follows with things that I understand from my experience in Iraq and Middle Eastern countries that were under "The Crown" influence many times having a pistol got more responsive action than a rifle. FYI there is a few "red haired" families in in Iraq and Iran areas. One guy I ran across would blend in in Scotland or England more than where he lived.
This is a gun that I had no idea existed and I think it is great and I would really like to have one someday.
If I were forced to carry a British made revolver, pre MK1, this would be it. Love the caliber, in fact I carried a Smith 25-5 in 45 colt for some time, then one of the city workers asked me about it, and saw that it was a Smith and Wesson with COLT on the barrel and just had to have it. This was around the time that Guns and Ammo did a story on folks screwing colt barrels on their Smiths to come up with Smolts. So he traded me a beautiful Honda Dream motorcycle in great condition for the pistol. I loved the little motor cycle, he loved the revolver and I went back to the City Issue Model 66 Smith for a side arm till I got my M1911A1. God I miss the bike and the revolver.
I remember the Army & Navy Store on my local high street, this video has made me feel very very old.
Likewise, I remember going to the one in Guildford as a kid (and by going i mean dragged by my parents 'cause shopping is boring)
@@treles 60 years on I'm still being dragged around boring clothes shops, this time by the Wife.
I'm not sure why she needs so many clothes, it's not like I take her anywhere.
And this has sadly reminded me that my nearest surplus store is in another city.
I think the last one in Peterborough closed down nearly 10 years ago. I'd have to check, but I think the closest one (last time I checked, which was several years ago - so this information is most likely wrong) is/was in Grantham.
I'll happily buy online, but I miss that smell. You know the one, the smell that every surplus store has.
Army and Navy had a great store by Covent Garden in the 1960s. I shouldn't think they sold weapons by that time. Lots of khaki in their windows.
Private Godfrey from "Dad's Army" had worked at an Army & Navy Store.
An interesting factoid about the Army & Navy Co-operative Society Ltd, it reformed/renamed to Army and Navy Stores Ltd. in 1934, and then in 1973, the entire company was bought by House of Fraser. So technically, still going today, but in a much much more different form than at the time of this revolver.
That _Saw Handle_ grip looks handsome, and was surely comfortable.
Just a stylish and strong pistol. An amazing design, and capable of shooting my favorite centerfire pistol caliber.
Great video, thanks Ian.
I was lucky enough to fire one of these once and it had great combat sights and pointed naturally where I wanted to shoot. At the time I owned an Uberti SAA copy - but the Webley was definitely the gun I'd have preferred to take to war,
Lots of people used to shop at the Army and Navy Sores for things other than guns. Their catalogue is like a Sears Roebuck level of stock. Many many years ago my uncle bought me a teddy bear from the Army and Navy (they had a huge store in London).
Thank you. Nice to have a bit of clarity.
I think the webley No5 express new army is a pretty cool antique revolver.
My grandad and great-granddad were the first father and son pair to serve in the RIC. Many of the records from that time were lost in the 1921 Customs House fire, but I was able to find their service numbers in the Public Records Office in Kew. They seem to have resigned around 1916 or so.
Respect from Ireland
Lucky for them. 1919-1922 was not a good time for RIC officers.
@@JR9979 unfortunately yes, they were hunted down after the war by fanatical terrorists. There’s accounts of them murdering the sons of officers and burning their wives
@ unfortunately yes
@@JR9979 Some left because of death threats, some because they didn’t want to be part of the repression, some were ostracised and hated. Many thousands of those family stories were lost. It’s taken us a hundred years to get over the events of the Rising and Civil War.
Lol, Ian, you are really channeling Yosemite 0:56 Sam when explaining the American model of revolver design. Great video!
It seems like one of those things where Webley was all "Hey Colt, can I copy your homework?" and Colt went "Yeah, just change a few things so we don't get caught by the teacher", and a Webley styled double action "Peacemaker" was born.
I hope someday you come across the unique chromed S&W Model 15 pistols with faux horn grips used by the USAF SP elite unit. General Curtis LeMay personally designed them for units guarding Strategic Air Command headquarters and providing personal protection for him and the vice-commanders. Put them in a cool cross draw holster. Bonus; they appeared in a TOS Star Trek episode - accurately!
This really is a *nice* looking gun, and I agree with you on the wear of the blueing - the gun carries its age and history very well.
I've seen examples of this revolver with the older style, non-spring loaded ejector rod that stowed in the cylinder axis pin. In fact, in the 1985 Western "Silverado" Kevin Kline gets his hands on a beat up, old, worn out example of one of those early in the film, which he has to use until he manages to take his ivory-gripped Colt SAA back from the man who stole it.
But if I'd been around back in the frontier era, and could have had my pick of revolver, I think that this is the one I'd have chosen, and the version seen here, with the Colt-style ejector rod. I'll never understand why American gun makers were so late to the party with double action revolvers. I'd love to have one of these today if I messed around with black powder (I'm sure it's a bad idea to shoot modern smokeless loads in it).
One of those "i wish i bought it when i could" revolvers. Working on the african coast in late '90's, we were equiped with more-or-less whatever they wanted to give us. In a semi-gouvernment gunshop i saw this revolver and liked it. But , as it was not of any practical use i was not allowed to get it. I really should have bought it in private later. I was given a brandnew ( still in box and oiled paper.. ) Webley Mk IV 38/200 build in my year of birth and a Mossberg 590 Mariner. I can testify that the Webley, as old as the design is is indeed a sufficient manstopper and a rather nice club too. Sadly i had to leave them onboard for the relieve-crew, as flying back to europe with them would rise some questions with the Customs.. 😒
When I first signed on my local PD after I got back from Vietnam in 73 there was a Webley .38 in our gun lockup. I dug it out and looked it over several times, I thought it was an interesting revolver. One day the Chief came in when I was playing around with it, he asked me if I knew what it was, and I replied I did, it was a Webley, he said yes, it was the Webley they took off the dude who tried to kill my sister a few years earlier and missed by a few inches. I neve really looked at that revolver the same after that. A month or so later it was cut in half along with several other guns when the ATF came to look at an illegal cut down rifle that was confiscated from the same guy. Small town history, when I was 14 I bought that cut down rife from a combiner who was in town and used it on the farm where dad hired me out to drive tractor for a fellow over the school break, I made 5 bucks a day making hay for the old fart who was my uncle through marriage. Never liked the old fart but I didn't have a lot of choice back then, dad said go and I went. It was the early 60's and I had no idea it was illegal to own a short barrel rifle with a pistol grip, it was a Stevens single shot lever action and looked a lot like a pirate pistol. No sights but I could still scare the shit out of snakes and such on the farm.
Makes you proud to be British for once. cheers Ian 👌
The High Street Navy and Army Stores are now defunct, but Army and Navy CSL still exists as gunsmiths and can be found on the web.
I came in here not really expecting much, but Ian delivers yet another interesting presentation
I'm a huge fan of, and owner of, a Single-Action Army, so seeing a revolver that looks like one that's been tastefully customized is really making me want one.
Looks like a cut hammer and a custom grip, and I love a fluted barrel. Webley, ya done great!
(EDIT: Really stupid spelling mistake.)
I am constantly astounded at the breadth of Ians knowledge. Great research. Thanks
Thanks lan for another history lesson. I have never seen this firearm before. It is very cool.
Truly a pity this marvel of a revolver was never adopted for military service because to me it's one of the best revolvers of all time because it had everything that would have made it a fantastic service pistol.
Another gem, thank you.
The Army Navy CSL also sold campaign furniture, a fascinating type of folding compact gear for on deployment.
GunJesus, at the range with this, wearing a Pith Helmet and monocle.
This ^
He does have the mustache for it.
Or a deerstalker hat😄
10:51 Interestingly, Army & Navy shops were common in most English towns until 2005, when they were re-branded as House of Fraser. They're still around, but don't sell guns.
This really is a nice looking revolver. Many nice features and appears durable and well made.
I've gotta' admit, that's a pretty slick looking revolver.
I love the Harrell reveal with the pistols. A very nice tribute.
Fun & informative little video, as always.I suppose this gun does embody some cliches (friendly or otherwise) about Europe & the USA:
Europe: A bit effete, but elegant & sophisticated.
America: Inelegant, unsubtle, but with an in-yer-aface and get-it-done attitude!
That's a damn good looking gun
This is the first DA revolver *prior* to the classic Webley break top Mk1 that I'd seriously consider, did I live in the era.
And, it chambers one of the *really good* and reasonably common cartridges of the period, as well as being able to chamber and fire British service ammo. Neat.
.455 Webly is the only revolver I've ever fired.
What a beast.
my dad was issued one in the raf in ww2. it had been replaced by then by the fairly anaemic webley rip off the enfield mk1 in a very mild proprietry .38 cartridge. however the old webley .455 was still in use .in his case not issued for general duties but as a sargeant he had been detailed with another to go to london to pick up a deserter! a job highly sought after as he got a night in london to visit his family! theyd just give us the pistol in holster with webbing and wed sign for it! it was never used as they pulled it off the shelf in the holster .it wasnt loaded i discovered my dad said when looking at it in the latrine.i had 6 bullets in a pouch they were all green from age! i never knew if we were supposed to load it before picking the guy up or try to load it if he ran away! my mate looking at the awesome chunk of metal said why worry hit him on the head with it that will kill him! my dad an air gunner in lancasters reflected that although they fired huge .303 vickers guns in the air over germany the raf rarely in his time had much to do with small arms on the ground. we had enfields in france before we got out pre battle of britain.no ammo though ! we guarded manston throughout the battle and invasion scare with empty rifles which was common across the country.we were issued a thompson .45 which was demonstrated to us by a warrant officer firing it across the field.think what that will do to the germans he said! at that point the germans attacked manston sadly causing a great loss of life! as we sat trembling in the slit trenches whilst they bombed and strafed us someone answered his question fuck all! i later found out that obviously we had a lot of .303 ammo for the planes weapons.the real reason it wasnt issued was basically with a vast amount of conscripts with limited weapons training the chances of them killing themselves or someone else was greater than killing an enemy.despite serving from 1945 to 1946 being issued the webley was about the limit of my dads small arms expertise .he saw a lot of combat in europe and the desert in bombers but never really had occasion to use any weapon not fitted on an aircraft.
To show different attitudes, .45 Colt, even in its black powder military load, is rather more powerful than .455 Webley. So is .45 APC, the smokeless 1911 load.
@@mikekemp9877my school bus driver picked it up at a auction in '82.
I cleaned it up and was allowed to fire it. The one thing that sticks with me about it was hearing the lead smack the tree the target was pinned to.
The other guns didn't make THAT sound.
@@daveizms01 in ireland where i grew up in cork farmers found a lot of .455 webleys rusted to bits when ploughing fields etc. cork was famously an anti treaty county.when the civil war started in 1922 the pro treaty faction won.many of the people theyd been fighting against were old ira comrades from the war of independence.the early treaty government were very draconian and harsh.anyone in possession of a firearm was swntenced to death .many former ira men buried their guns for a future generation to discover.
That hammer spur looks like it's wearing armor. Very cool!
Fun fact: the designer took his inspiration for the shape, from the spurs on Henry VIII's jousting armour - as displayed in the Tower of London*
*Okay, I made this up - but see how many people believe you! 😊
It looks so slick
Honestly one of my favourite gate loading revolvers and I do concur, one of (if not) the best solid-frame and gate loading designs (apart from the Abadies, I suppose). I'm quite certain I would take it over any Colt or Remington gate loaders any time of the day.
A beautiful go between and very modern looking pistol, that barrel looks like some on pistols made today, again kudos to Webley for a bit of forward thinking!
Beautiful Firearm.
Does he just like have an office at Morphy's?
He’s got an army cot out back😂
Man, I don't know, but there is just something about Webley Revolvers that really speaks to me. I absolutely love the desing of these guns for some reason.
Excellent post.
A British gun with great looking lines and I am pleased you show cased it. 😁
absolutely gorgeous
Great looking piece of History!👍🏽😊❤️🇺🇸
Before watching I was thinking why would that be an improvement over the top break but I had my eras confused. This would definitely be a more solid choice than the Enfield revolver, with the ability to chamber the more powerful .45 LC which they could have bought with their own money if they wanted to.
Very interesting review, thank you, I wish I could own one
There was an “ Army and Navy “ department store in the Victoria area of London (U K)
Closed not too sure , late 60s early 70s
It was in the 80s, as I still remember TV adverts for Army & Navy shops, as well as Dickens and Jones. They were bought up by House of Frazer, who basically ditched all the military benefits and turned it into a high street market hall where all the designer fashion brands had a 'stall' in their own little corners. I've never forgiven HoF for destroying that institution...
beautiful revolver. surprised it was not popular here during that time since Colt's double actions at the time were fragile. I could have even envisioned a shorter barrel version being popular.
The No.5 Army Express was imported by Winchester. As a counter to Colt entering the repeating rifle market with the Burgess and Lightning rifles.
When Colt stopped making the rifles, Winchester stopped importing and promoting the Webleys.
Cool! Thank you very much.
What you would pick in different time periods would be a really cool series in my opinion.
Many of Ian's older Q&A sessions cover questions like that. Of course, you'd have to watch a lot of videos to pull out the content you're looking for.
I think that this is the gun Paden bought and used in the beginning of “Silverado.” They took out the arbor pin so the cylinder would fall out.
John Cleese carries that god awful Enfield in Silverado too
👍Great content, thanks.
Another great vid, thanks for sharing.
I love your video’s, please continue making them
“New Model Army” you say? I’ve heard that before somewhere…
Ollie's army - something to do with Elvis Costello I believe?
The Webley Cromwell. 😂
The real 'New Model Army' worked wonders by removing a tyrant and opening the door ever so slightly to a modern form of government.
Cromwell fans should sue any firm that takes the name in vain.
I have a reprint of one of their catalogues. It covers every object under the sun, and is a time capsule.
If webley made a good revolver, and Gun Jesus says so than I want a 45. Cal webley! Thank you and love this content!🍻
Great gun, great review! But is anyone else disappointed that the Webley wasn’t a break top?
I am a big fan of top break revolvers. Maybe not the smartest thing around, but they're very cool.
I think my godfather had one of those revolver in his weapons collection - thought it been a while since I saw the collection - but if he did, then I've handled and fired this weapon - it's probably the weapon that influenced me in revolvers and why I've always bought and used revolvers - my last weapon was a S&W model 65-4 .357 mag. with a 4" barrel is satine finished stainless steel and I loved it
Hey Ian. Could I make a suggestion for the future? When sitting with the gun in front of you, could you position the gun so that it's slightly higher in the frame? Where it's sitting for the first 4.5 minutes of this video is exactly where subtitles go. It's not a huge deal since I know you'll eventually do close up for most of the video, but angling the camera down slightly in the wide shots would be neat.
I would love to see that thing with the original bluing intact. It was probably beautiful.
Worthy of ow ership by any revolver aficionado!
Great design...still like the nagant revolver!!
Could you do a video on British revolver cartridges? I've never been clear what the Webley MkI revolvers were fed with from their adoption in 1887 to the standardisation of the 455 Webley Mk I cartridge in 1891, and the tale of the .38/200 cartridge is worth telling.
The problem with double action was, as the black powder residue built up, the sluggish cylinder could make the trigger pull DOUBLE. Even pistols capable it double action (Thunderer and Lightning, for example) were in practice basically used single action.
Thanks for another good video
I doubt there is a more knowledgeable firearms expert in the world than Ian. He could teach a post graduate course in firearms history at any university in the world
I tried to get one of these in forever, but whenever one shows up here on the European Market they sell usually for around 2000 Euros (so like 2100 USD).
What do they go for in North America?
Either way i love these!
Prost & Cheers from Berchtesgaden in the Bavarian Alps
My uncle had one in the early 80's, have no idea where it ended up. Probably melted down 😞
A beautiful revolver.
Oh, when ya said it was used in the more "frontier" parts of the empire, I immediately pictured in my head a sequel to the Red Dead games. Maybe it'd be called Red Dead Royal Flush or something.
Fabulous video.
Newly made in India in. 455
Recent announcement. The Sandila unit of Sial say
For the first time since it ceased production in 1924, ... the model is set to make a comeback from Uttar Pradesh.
License is awaited from the Uttar Pradesh government. There's talk of likely export sales to suit the demand anticipated from the US collectors market.
In general, how is the quality of the handguns made in India?
@@kirbyculp3449 I would expect some hiccups early on, like any start-up factory. But Indian manufacturers can put out very high quality goods when they want to, for example Royal Enfield motorcycles, which have an excellent reputation.
I am not a big fan of the english firearms, but this one is realy sexy. As you, if i had to choose a firearm at this time, certainly i will choose this model... Thank's for the video. 👍
This may be the most beautiful revolver I have ever seen, and this is coming from a Colt Single action fanboy.
It really does look good!
Don't spit on the guns!
I saw that too 🤣
say it don't spray it
I'm very surprised that one of these Webleys wasn't written into Richard Harris's character in the movie The Unforgiven. It could have been another aspect of England that English Bob could have touted over America.
wow that's beautiful
Zulu was definitely missing a scene where Michael Caine's character is fanning his Webley No 5
Looks like the Manurhin or Python of the 1880s.
I would be curious to see a quintessential service gun of 1875 or so, combining all the technical developments preferred nowadays, that had been realized in one gun or another by that time.
(e.g. tip-out cylinders, rebounding hammers, safety notches, solid frame, extractor, sights, grips, 45lc or 44 WCF, ...)
In the movie The Maltese Falcon they say he partner was kilked by a Webley 45 automatic 8 shot but the 8 shot was a 38 and some people say it's a mistake calling a revolver an auto was wrong but double action was called automatic in the 1930's
I love how Ian keeps pulling pistols out of his pants. The auction house better frisk him before he walks out the door 😂
Fascinating
I have shopped in the Army & Navy store in Westminster in London, and never gave a thought to why it was called that....every days a School Day.....
Whenever I see 1 of your videos 1st I click on it then I click on like, then I take my time to watch the video. But 1st things 1st your videos are good.
I think this would be GREAT for SASS ! Maybe PIETTA could reproduce in modern calibers.
When I was a kid I wanted a 455 top break Webley so bad it hurt. This would do as well. 😁
I actually had a shaved cylinder MKVI in the early 80's. I sold it to a friend and have wanted another ever since. I just love those things.
theyre great, hell of a DA pull but you cant have everything
...Kind of want a video where Ian pulls out something like ten different handguns from underneath the table the gun he's talking about is sitting on. :P
I like how Ian couldn't stop smiling when talking about this gun :) I wonder if he bought it?!
That definitely looks like THE revolver!
General Custer is said to have used a RIC Webley revolver most of the time, including at the battle of little bighorn.
Custer could have used several M-60's set up on top of Custer Hill, it would have made all the difference. To bad they were still 50 years in the future. Folks still talk about Custer a lot up here, you can go South of town about 14 miles and still see the place where Custer's troops carved their logo in the sandstone cliffs near the banks of the Grand River where they set up camp on their earlier mission from Fort Lincoln near present day Bismarck/Mandan enroute to the Black Hills. They must have come right past my house here in South Dakota, or near by anyhow. The old Deadwood trail went through the pasture of dad's farm; you could still see the ruts from the wagons as they made their way back and forth along the way.