Hi I did my masters on schizophrenia research. Its not really one gene and then stress triggers it. The current understanding is a "hit model" were there are many hits needed hits can include multiple genetic markers, illness during pregnancy, stress, child abuse, weed smoking as a young adult, alcohol, food and water you eat as a child, hormonal markers and changes, and much much more!!!! Noone knows how many "hits" it takes and it could drastically change from person to person. I hate how boiled down Schizophrenia keeps getting! It is so complicated and it is so important that the right info gets out to help understand this illness that is really disruptive to people's lives.
Hi, something I’ve always wondered is whether our understanding of mental illnesses suffers greatly from the impulse to see these things in a rigidly black and white perspective instead of on a spectrum or even, as seems to be the case with neurodivergence, as an array of trait clusters that are often grouped together as diagnoses but which in reality have far to much in common to be entirely separate afflictions (autism/OCD/CPTSD/ADHD) I also wonder with many mental illnesses and also neurodivergence how much of our current model is pathologizing what could be seen as traits that are actually “normal” human behavior variations that are incompatible with the way we live in society today. There is a theory that some of what is wrong with us is similar to a behavioral breakdown that animals in zoos can experience called zoochosis (zoo psychosis). I have little formal education on the topic but I’ve always been interested out of curiosity and for, er, personal reasons lol.
They used to blame everything on the mom. Autism used to be thought to be caused by "bad mothers". Even if a man is around they will blame the woman every time. Still do most times even today.
Refrigerator parenting, not bad mothers… A psych noted that the mothers of children on the spectrum lacked warmth & affection, and the fathers were uninvolved and distant…. There was no biomedical model in those days. We first had a neurological theory proposed by a psych named Rimland who had a child on the spectrum himself….
I remember family telling my mom it was her fault that I was “different”. I hope she didn’t believe that. But she passed before knowing my autism diagnosis. So, I’ll never know.
@@TheBreechiePsychiatrist Kanner who coined the term "refrigerator mothering" described it as mothers traumatizing their children to retreat into autism with cold parenting. So yes, he did mean that mothers of autistic children were "bad mothers." There is no positivity associated with the description of cold, uncaring, and lacking maternal warmth.
@@noorashiraz9046 It All starts with Child Ab’use - children from loving, healthy homes don’t usually grow up to become cri’minals, Ra’pists or Traffi’ckers….
Oddly, they are now seeing a connection with schizophrenia and cat ownership. Apparently this family raised falcons. Birds and cats have the same parasites and bacteria often. It’s kind of an interesting theory that perhaps that’s what happened here.
My sibling did get schizophrenia gene from my mother who got it from her father who was in concentration camp. All tree triggered by immense stress. I was kinda lucky cause i left, but i may get the trigger too in the future. Which is scary. So generational gene is a thing.
I am so glad someone else brought this up. I worked in a field loosely related to mental health and I can tell you, this is a huge problem. The mothers get blamed for a lot, even in the evidence of genetics. I've seen this with healthcare providers but also with society views in general. Heck once I got the beat down of my life and they tried to blame me for what happened before the family told them that level of aggression was being observed everywhere. It scared me so much I switched jobs.
this is also from an era where schizophrenia was WIDELY and WILDLY misdiagnosed. a wife who didn’t want to do her wifely duties for example could receive a schizophrenia diagnosis…
It's interesting you say this because in the documentary, one of the sons was given a diagnosis immediately after he was violent towards his brother. No other symptoms. It made me wonder if his diagnosis was given for fear that he was like his brothers, not because he was actually schizophrenic.
@@heartstartspoundingwhich brother are you referring to? I doubt the doctor who diagnosed him didn’t have a differential diagnostic list to go through before writing up the medical report. All doctors have to document what they see and what is reported. Even if the doctor was lazy i doubt the parents brought the son in to a doctor after only one incident of being violent.
@@heartstartspoundingalso….it was repeatedly emphasized in the documentary that the mother tried to keep her sons home for treatment and tried to prevent them from being institutionalized therefore i doubt she would have so easily brought the son in to be diagnosed with a disease that would have led to permanent hospitalization which was a common occurrance/treatment back then.
The Galvins agreed to have their children genetically tested by Dr. DeLisi who found the DNA link between schizophrenia and genetics in their family DNA. Therefore, in this case no…they were not misdiagnosed. And in the case of women who didn’t want to do their wifely duties…i have no idea. We don’t know the details of each of thoses cases to make a definitive statement that those women didn’t have a mental illness. One of the symptoms of depression is lack of sex drive so it could be true that a wife who didn’t want to do her “wifely duties” might have actually had schizophrenia or depression. The two diagnosis usually are comorbid (occur together. One can trigger the other or both can arise in the same person.)
I watched it and saw a lot of things that mirrored my brother. He has Schizo- Affective Disorder. His delusions and hallucinations actually started in childhood which is rare. It was scary growing up because most of his delusions were to kill me. His voices constantly told him that if I was dead they would go away
@@samiballew4609I'm so sorry for all that happened to you. If you don't mind me asking (if you do, don't feel obligated in any way to answer these questions) do you have any feelings for him? Especially any positive ones? I imagine it's very hard if not impossible to separate the person from the disease in such circumstances. Were you able to heal from this? And what did your parents do to keep you safe? You must have been so stressed you're entire childhood, this shouldn't have happened to you or anyone for that matter.
@alexmagney5326 not anymore and my mother did her best to protect me and to help my brother with his issues. He was so violent that he ended up in a few facilities. She had him in therapy and on meds. She was a single mother and tried her absolute best. I no longer have any feelings toward him except anger. I found out he threatened and tried to hurt my children. That was it. He has been dead to me from that point on.
My father was a police officer in Milwaukee Wisconsin about 30 years ago he told me a story about how a lady had called the police and he came to take the report.The report was saying how a priest at their Church had molested her son she was of course frantic my dad took the report and immediately called his staff sergeant telling him the horrific seriousness of the details of the case.. the sergeant said not to leave and that he'd be there shortly when he arrived he was with a higher priest of the Catholic Church and told my dad to go wait in the kitchen. The higher priest, the sergeant and the mother all went in another room to talk after talking for about 20 minutes the staff sergeant came out and told my dad not to file a report my dad said okay and left and did the exact opposite he said I figured the report will probably get thrown out even if I filed it but damned if I wasn't going to try. These molestations of the Catholic Church have gone on for far too long
Woooooooow. That’s wild. I’ve heard conspiracies of pedophile cases where people like your dad/ his rank (at that time) are told to step off the case and it goes unsolved. Makes you think of the friends in high places some of these sickos have
My cousin was rpd by a priest in illinois. The family kept it hush, hush. None of the cousins, aunts, uncles etc knew. My cousin turned to drugs and alcohol. It really messed him up for about 25 years.
That family went through it for sure...not only schizophrenia but tack on priest sexual abuse, incest abuse, torture of siblings, lack of knowledge from doctors, I mean dang!
@@thedeviouspanda apparently the mother really tried to keep them home to prevent that. Which I understand, being institutionalized at these points in time sounds like signing a loved one up for torture and mistreatment.
My mother is a paranoid schizophrenic. It was triggered later in her life by remembering repressed memories of sexual abuse in elementary school by the schools janitor. My mother and her two sisters started reminiscing on a visit together and all started to remember horrific experiences and two of them (my mother being one) started exhibiting schizophrenia. It took 8 years of hell to get her properly diagnosed and her meds correct, she’s gotten off her meds a few times in the past 35 years and the mental health system is a nightmare. Evil people hurt children and the havoc they cause in its wake is beyond words. My mother is a sweetheart and she has so much shame around what happened to her and her illness. I wish I could make her understand that we don’t think about it that way, it’s just like having any other illnesses and you treat them, this is no different. It’s unfortunate, but it’s treatable.
Same, one brother tho. He molested me and would hit me a lot. As I got older I started fighting back but in the back of my mind I was terrified. He now lives in the country we are from, goes from living in the street to mental rehab places, still does drugs and yeah.
I went through this I have a brother who has schizophrenia and bipolarism my childhood was a living h e l l he tried to kill me multiple times among other things I don't speak to him now that I'm an adult I'm absolutely terrified of him
That’s so scary! Why did your parents allow them to be around you? I’m sorry but if I had a kid that wanted hurt my other children, that kid has got to go to a mental ward or something. I am not having someone dangerous in my house.
@@dawnyofthelighthow did your parents not protect you? Why did they let him around you? If he had actually killed your would be their fault for not doing anything about his attempts. I’m so sorry you had to go through that and have such fear and stress growing up.
Automatically blaming a priest is no better than automatically blaming a mother. There is no reason to even assume that a person was responsible for this disease.
@@actuallyAtlas1989 - yes, this was chiefly the fault of the documentarian. I did recognize your joke and even chuckled a little. But the underlying problem remains.
@@ThatOneAlligator - sure. And I can also blame _you_ for being a horrible person and abusing children. I mean, it may not be reasonable to do so, it probably isn't true - but I could just make a rule to blame anyone with a TH-cam name starting with "ThatOne" for being a horrible person and abusing children. And how would that be different from automatically blaming mothers or priests?
My great grandma's was triggered by her husband leaving her for a younger woman, leaving her and their 4 children to freeze and starve. A relative took the youngest, a boy, the two older girls (15&16) got married to the first boys who offered and their little sister lived between the houses. Their mom went to Eloise asylum until it closed down. My uncle's was triggered by a bad drug trip. There was no where to send him for help, and he didn't trust anyone, so he lived on the streets. Eventually he went to prison for the mental insane on terrorism charges. He called a police department and said he was going to shoot up a post office. Even the cops said he was harmless and was calling on himself, but we've got strict terrorism laws in Michigan. He finally got the help he needed in there, until he passed from skin cancer. I'm in my masters program to become a clinical mental health counselor.
The parents seemed pretty awful too. The mom was rigid and controlling, yet refused to safeguard her children when the were beating on each other relentlessly. When her daughter reported that the older brother was raping her, she gaslit her daughter. The mom was more interested in keeping up appearances than her children's well being. And the dad was totally checked out from family life.
Apparently the documentary did not actually reflect how the family was in real life. One of the sister came out and said that the stuff they gave her to see was not the end result and it makes her family and parents look awful when it didn’t happen like they tell it in the show
Ngl I thought the same thing when it was mentioned that the doctors blamed the mother. She might not have been directly responsible but she wasn't protective of her kids which in effect might have triggered their issues
@@sarahwenger4479 I've read what she had to write. She is in deep deep denial. The brothers talk about the abuse the mother ignored and enabled. And that sister even told her story of SA that her mother gaslit. It's pretty obvious from multiple sources that my previous statement is accurate. She cannot control the narrative even if she wants to.
Schizophrenia is a multifactorial disorder caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors. Reducing schizophrenia to one gene negates the nuance of the disorder. In the case of the Galvin brothers, a mutation in the SHANK2 gene was present in 7 of the brothers, but only six of the brothers developed schizophrenia. Thus, researchers can't definitively say that a mutation in SHANK2 will lead to the development of schizophrenia. Other genes have been implicated in schizophrenia, such as DISC1 and SHANK3. These genes play important roles in post-synaptic functions. Moreover, individuals with schizophrenia are more likely to be born in winter or early spring, possibly due to a seasonal varying factor that impacts the development of the central nervous system. Maternal infection during pregnancy (influenza) has also been implicated in the development of schizophrenia. 14%-21% cases of schizophrenia are linked to maternal infections during pregnancy, potentially due to the elevated presence of cytokines in the maternal circulation. Cancer is similar to multifactorial disorders because one mutation in one gene is not enough to cause it. Cancer is caused by the accumulation of mutations in various types of genes, such as proto-oncogenes and tumor suppressor genes. Reducing environmental stressors and harmful agents can help you reduce the risk of developing cancers and multifactorial disorders. However, we can only try our best because we can't control who we are born to or where we live in certain circumstances. I have a background in Molecular Biology, so I enjoy studying these topics.
Very true. I learned this after consulting and being tested by a geneticist. I have a gene for "genetic schizophrenia." Not surprising, as I have close relatives with schizophrenia over several generations. Dr warned me that if I have biological children, there was a a higher likelihood of them having schizophrenia. I have the gene, but it isn't active in me. Why? It's complicated, as you wrote. There's a lot to it.
@@delia_watercolors NOT to get too deep in your business, but has this impacted your decision on whether to have kids or not? Why isn't this form of testing free and widely available to prevent passing issues on to future generations?
Yes, very true. A very close friend of my only starting having problems after getting into drugs in her mid-20s. She was diagnosed with schizophrenic bipolar disorder. She really struggled for a long time afterwards, but now she's got the right medication combo, gets a good amount of sleep, and that seems to have really helped.
@@bwabwa8810 it's tough bc bipolar and schizophrenia typically present between the ages of 18 and mid-20's which is when most ppl experiment with drugs. There's no conclusive evidence that drugs can trigger a disorder that wouldn't have presented itself anyway. But we do know that drugs (prescription and street drugs) can trigger episodes in mania, hypomania, depression, psychosis, paranoia, etc. (Even in ppl who have never had setious mental health issues, and may never again after one experience induced by drugs). I hope your friend is doing much better now!
I wish people would understand that more and stop getting offended for being the person that is not trusted! Its not personal but damn you never know who a child predator is EVER they dont make it obvious or come right out and say it so how would you know!
@@alysiav173 deadass, I get so scared for my nieces and nephews and I never let them with any relative in a room alone, people as close as uncles, because there are literally no guarantees and id rather be hyper vigilant than ever let them experience the horrors of molestation and sexual harassment. People forget that statistics indicate that children are most likely to be harassed and assaulted by relatives and family friends because these are the people who have access to them..
I'm somebody with schizophrenia and Unfortunately was abused growing up and so remember that when it started, my symptoms got way worse. As a child i wasn't heard and i was constantly scared so I've withheld A LOT of my issues, I'm now what you'd consider a high functioning schizophrenic person. The struggle is real and scary, i still have very uncontrollably low times with not so many high but everything is going still so that's alright i guess.
Maybe I don't know you irl, but that doesn't stop me from feeling proud of you for coming this far. That won't stop me from wishing you the best and praying for you ❤
My grandpa (not by blood, but he'd raised my mum and her siblings since she was 10 when her real dad went out for smokes and never came home) was a paranoid schizophrenic. His mom used to lock him in a linen closet for days and weeks at a time. When he was on medication he was the sweetest, most docile older gentleman you'd ever meet. When he was taken off his meds (still not sure why his docs did this) he drank every chemical he could find in the house, chased my grandma with a knife, tried to attack the cops and almost succeeded in jumping off a cliff before he was wrestled to the ground and taken away in an ambulance. I witnessed most of these episodes between the ages of 6 and 15. They kept changing his meds and had him go with nothing in between new meds to purge the old meds from his system. He lunged over a check out line and tried to attack a young cashier for spying on him to the CIA. He would ask me if i saw the pink elephants in the hospital room. All kinds of things. They FINALLY got his meds straightened out and he never had another episode again. He went about 20 years without one until he passed away from cancer around 2005
Abuse like that is like a light switch for some genes. This can include not only genes for mental illness but we see auto immune disorders pop out too. It’s so sad how these sick people ruin lives and just carry on with their own. I’ve unfortunately got to see the bad genes bust out like the kool-Aid man in my sisters and me. My older sister lost the mental illness genetic roulette. She unfortunately carries the gene for schizophrenia. It breaks my heart and I wish I could hold the people accountable that did this to her.
People often don't realise even nowadays how much serious mental illnesses depend on trauma. It is very rare for things like schizophrenia or bipolar to manifest without trauma. Yes, there can be a genetic predisposition, but it almost always needs to be triggered by a life altering trauma. Mine was having two abusive relationships back to back, the latter of which was with a woman I really saw a future with until the abuse started. I've now dealt with bipolar for two years and only recently started treatment. And as someone with delusions, I can say first hand that sometimes those delusions of grandeur are the only time you feel whole after that kind of abuse.
Trauma can simply be growing up or living in a household with a crazy person for an extended period of time. It doesn’t have to be something that directly happens to you. My siblings all have some pretty serious personality disorders. Most people in my family are predisposed to certain types of insanity, myself included, but I managed to avoid the worst of it simply because I’m the oldest. By the time the dominos started to fall I had the most developed brain. I was never abused, but I watched people I love slowly lose their sanity in front of me and in front of each-other …..and I am crazier for it. I was always gonna deal with depression and anxiety, but I am toeing the line of certain paranoia based disorders that I wouldn’t be if it weren’t for trauma.
Schizophrenia is not a death sentence and people who have it are not evil. I have friends and family who have it, and there are definitely a lot of different variations of it. Some people have an extremely mild form. But sure others who have it can be more paranoid. But they are not bad people. Many of them are truly great people.
Yup. And what a lot of people don’t realize is that Schizophrenia is a mental illness that can be passed down genetically. My grandmother, mom, older brother, little sister, another older brother, uncles, all had it. It’s like Russian roulette, you don’t know who’s gonna actually get it. But when it’s senior year in high school that’s when you start seeing signs and in University age range is when it’s full blown. Unfortunately, my bloodline has paranoia schizophrenia. Which in turn I lost some family Members very violently due to this mental illness. My other older brother who is alive has violent and I mean violent narcissistic disorder (don’t know where that came from) and I cannot be around him as he will try to unalive me. Don’t ask me how the gene skipped me but if I have children then most likely I will pass it down to them. And why I refuse to have children, I cannot bear to watch my own child go through what I have and am currently going through. Please everyone keep your mental health first.🙏🏿
I’ve seen so many examples of smart young people going off to college and then having to come back home after a mental breakdown. It often seems to start in the late teens and early twenties.
@@misstriciaskitchen8640 exactly. Same thing happened to my little sister, RIP. She went to University @ 16. A year later she was clinically diagnosed. At 36 she’s gone. Along with my father. Both were highly intelligent people. It’s crazy that your mind can be your best friend or your worse enemy.
My grandpa was schizo, my grandparents had 4 kids, one drowned when he was 16 but the other three, including my mom were and are all schizophrenic. I asked my brother why none of us siblings are and he said it's a male dominant gene, so if the father has it it's more likely to get passed down. Just talked to my schizo mom today, she's still crazy, but I love her
I’m definitely going to check this out. I have a sister who is bipolar and schizophrenic, we was not raised together so when she came to stay with me, I seen the signs, I couldn’t imagine it being 6 out of 12 having this disorder. But she definitely gave me a different perspective on it because I knew that this is a real thing but seeing it first hand was kinda scary. She definitely would seem like a different person on many different occasions. She is a beautiful and extremely smart individual but she chooses to live on the streets then to get the help she needs so my only hope and prayers is that she is safe wherever she’s at. Please keep my sisters safety in your prayers.🙏🏽
@@anti_sse basically denial but she knows it’s a issue because she gets SSI for it. Worst part is she is so freaking smart kind and loving but she lives in a world that’s in her head and unfortunately it makes it hard for her to maintain what you need to do to live. Example instead of getting and keeping a job she literally set up my desk and old keyboard with no screen saying she’s in school and has an office desk. Meanwhile these are things I had stored away but to her downstairs was her office/school room. I do hope where ever she is she is safe. And hopefully I will get to meet her ex husband and his wife so I can meet my niece for the first time whom is a teen now. Mental illness is such a huge problem so I hope she is getting help wherever she is.
My nana always tells me about how her brother George was so bright and sharp and then all the sudden at the age like 12 after going to some camp to teach boys to become preists or something he came back completely insane and got diagnosed schizophrenic and was never able to function alone as an adult his whole life. She thinks the preists did something to him. He smoked a literal carton of cigarettes a day till he died and had the mind of like a weirdly mature 8 yr old in an old man adult body but was very nice. Her other brother almost went completely insane too and tried off himself multiple times in his youth but after an insanely high prescription of lithium for a while, then becoming Christian instead of Catholic, he came off the meds and lives beautiful quiet peaceful life with his wife and many kids.
There is only speculation that a priest did something to him, whereas we know there are genetic and pathogenic causes of schizophrenia, and that schizophrenia usually strikes at about that age. We should be careful about looking for scapegoats because we can _always_ find one.
@@alanlight7740 it's remarkable how these things occur at the same time. And priests have a bad reputation now. Deservedly so. So no need for you to stick up for them. They should get rid of that cursed celibacy that caused so many of them to sa children. Let's work on that. Let's make that a cause to save the children worldwide still in danger from these people.
One advancement of medicine is that Schizophrenia can be shown on an FMRI. I live with bipolar disorder and got diagnosed as a child. About 4 years ago my psychiatrist got an FMRI approved to check for some damage due to meds and also asked for it to be checked to see if there were any brain markers for schizophrenia (I had no other symptoms). It was negative. One of my friends got her diagnosis confirmed with an FMRI and has gotten better treatment. For it to run in a family is rough but it’s also wild that only the boys were diagnosed. However even now, schizophrenic women are diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder or Bipolar when it’s actually schizophrenia
Ugh that is so sad. My grandma had schizophrenia and was resistant to treatment right until the end of her life. Cause how can you convince somebody to take medicine or go to the hospital when they are 100% certain that the doctors are evil and trying to poison them? It’s so hard to see somebody you love so terrified and have no way to comfort or help them.
I was diagnosed with schizophrenia when I was 41 but before that bipolar major depression social anxiety multiple personality disorder. I stopped going to the doctor as it got too much the more the said my diagnosis. I was abused by around 10 man and woman but I never understood I thought everybody brains were like motel rooms with secret rooms and we didn’t open them. Each room has brought me unbelievably content is how I have to face it sometimes. Iv notice some of my kids are just like me but have had really good life with 1 bad experience so it’s mind blowing. I hope this makes sense
I have some questions did you ever doubt you had schizophrenia when you were experiencing symptoms? did you ever doubt your delusions or try to suppress them? Did you ever give yourself some space to decide if you believe your delusions? Because I’m not sure if I experienced schizophrenia or if it’s ocd
This reminds me of my dad who had CPTSD and possibly dissociative identity disorder (same thing as multiple personality disorder) and it’s not at all like people think or how it’s portrayed. It’s not obvious and I didn’t really “see” the dissociation part until my 30’s. I just thought he had a lot of different moods and different interests. He was abused in early childhood and later in childhood by multiple people in multiple ways as well. One of them was a Big Brother at the United Way. Then, when he was 12 and his mother died (single mom self-medicating with opiates) and left him an orphan he started hearing a voice. He only heard one, but it often taunted him or told him to hurt himself. He even gave it a name. He didn’t always believe the voice, it was more of an internal battle for him. He was a great dad though and he never hurt me. He was sometimes a little overprotective, but he was very loving father. My parents divorced when I was 3 and i spent summers and some holiday vacations with him. We sometimes argued, but just like any kid and parent. I always knew he heard a voice because my mom told me, but he told me himself when I was in my 30’s. Before that, I had found things he had written to, or because of, the voice, but didn’t tell him. I have ptsd, but not because of him ( it was from emotional abuse and neglect from a narcissistic mother) and not nearly to his degree, but I had been to a lot of years of therapy before he told me about his own experience himself and how he felt “crazy”. I was able to explain PTSD to him and how trauma can cause these things and he was very relieved and was later diagnosed with it. He died when I was 40, and he was 60. He had rheumatic heart disease from untreated strep as a kid too. I miss him and I feel like he was the only person that really understood me. I’m 50 now and I’ve never had delusions or psychosis, but I do have adhd that was diagnosed at 40 with the ptsd I already had. To be honest, the parts of me that are like him are the parts I’m most happy to have. The creativity, the curiosity, the empathy, the love of learning and nature and animals. I would not have changed anything about my dad except for him to suffer less. I’m telling you this because your story sounded so familiar and I also want you to know that your kids can be just fine and even grateful 💜
@@punkroxgirl I’m curious to why you would say he might have dissociative disorder. getting diagnosed with PTSD later on in life means he went to a doctor so wouldn’t be be diagnosed with DID if he had it? Maybe the voice was just part of his PTSD experience especially since it was more of an internal battle and he felt crazy meaning he was aware of it. Obviously I don’t know everything and I am just basing this on what you wrote.
It's important to note that when we talk about stress triggering genes for mental illnesses, that model for illness describes stressors more broadly than we do in general everyday speech. Good things in life can be stressors in the stress diathesis model too. Being a straight A student, moving to a new house, getting married were examples of high stress but good things that can happen to you that can activate those genes. Like having siblings. Or living in the 80s.
My aunt was diagnosed with Schizophrenia when she was 19 in the early 60’s. She unfortunately walked into the woods one day and died from exposure. She was missing for 2 decades by the time they identified her remains. I struggle with major depressive disorder with intense moments of delusion from how depressed or anxious I get and I hope that the help I’m getting now can make sure I don’t get swallowed by it unlike my aunt.
My mother was abusive and am pretty certain combined with my dad, multiple mental illnesses and personality disorders. All 3 of my siblings got stuff like bipolar. I have depression and Autism. For my health and sanity, I left after being basically imprisoned for years for speaking up. They think nothing is wrong with them.
My father was abusive Narcissist and my mother had Autism and extreme anxiety. Years later turns out I was the lucky one of the four who developed Borderline Personality Disorder, Autism, and numerous other mental illnesses. Yay me!
@@blueroses226 Its a hell scape of a disorder. The worst thing to ever happen to me was developing BPD. Its horrible. I feel for your brother, but glad you got away safe!
It sounds like they have only speculation that the priest did something unseemly. The danger of looking for scapegoats is that you can always find one if you look hard enough. It makes little difference whether they find a mother or a priest.
@@alanlight7740given how many priests abuse kids and how the Church helped them do it and get away with it, it's more like it's a feature and not an exception. It's a more than likely reason. If you dont want your church to be known for being child abusers dont defend them online. Presure them into not accepting it and shame them into being somewhat human and not morally bankrupt.
@@carpediem4091 - there are several problems with your analysis: (1) In so much as the RCC (and other churches) have abused children, instilling shame about their sexuality was probably their greatest fault. And that appears to be a fault which you share. (2) As far as Catholic priests abusing children in the sense that you were speaking of, the best evidence not only points to this being rare, but less common than among the leadership in most other denominations. (3) From other evidence it is quite clear that the government and media focus on the RCC was primarily in retaliation for the Pope objecting to the U.S. invasion of Iraq. No one in authority really cares - they are just using and reinforcing the moral failings of people like yourself to attack an independent source of influence which might restrict their ability to kill anyone they want around the globe. (4) If you are primarily interested in preventing abuse of children, sexual or otherwise, we should consider that the organizations where this is most prolific are most governmental. Most notably public schools and various "child protection" agencies. Foster children within the government system, for example, are more likely to be abused within that system than not - and we live in such a sick society that I saw just the other day that 37% of children have been reported to such agencies by the public for intervention. I'm no fan of the RCC, but they operated in accordance with their age old principles which include understanding all sex outside of marriage as sinful but not insurmountable or unforgivable. The RCC also has a hierarchy of sins in which this is far from the highest, and for all its faults the RCC has been one of the few organizations that has attempted to curtail the worst excesses of what might be called an American empire (though I hesitate to call it that because though its center is in the United States it is fundamentally anti-American in character). You may wish to pause and consider whose side you are really on, and why.
I read Hidden Valley Road by Robert Kolker about this family and it’s so good. Highly recommend. Not only discussed the family but also the history of our understanding of schizophrenia and efforts to treat it. Such an interesting case study into the genetic basis of schizophrenia.
Rotten mango did a good video regarding about the life of this family, she also mentioned the controversy about the documentary and how the family disliked how they portrayed the situation.
My grandmother never really had a relationship with her father because he developed schizophrenia when she was young. This was around 1938-1940 and they truly had no idea how to help people. He would die quickly after being admitted to a mental hospital from a UTI that eventually poisoned him.
This is a little knowm corner of the disgnosis. It's about 80% genetic, and symptoms start at some point on their own in the 20s. If there's a large traumatic trigger, symptoms can start as alarmingly early as 13 or 14. It's a hard thing to pinpoint if your older loved ones are too ashamed to tell you it's in the family history
Worst part was that the second eldest brother, Jim, raped his own sister the eldest daughter. Then dying a few years later after denying it ever happened. And the mother telling her daughter it was normal.
Tragic. My aunt had it before she passed it is a terrible, terrible disease. She got it in her early 20s after my mothers family lost there mother and then there father. She actually was an identical twin and her sister didn’t get it. It truly terrifying. To lose yourself like that is incomprehensible. She was fine for a long time on medication but as she got older she stopped taking it which is a symptom in itself. She wasted away to skin and bones. She looked like a person in the holocaust.
I have a nephew who is the absolute worst case scenario when it comes to schizophrenia! The desperately wanting to help him but not being able to do shit about it is really rough!
(1) We don't know that the priest did anything. There is speculation based on the fact that a priest was present at times, but that is not evidence. (2) What _is_ evident is that the most likely cause was either a gene or a pathogen, not a person. (3) The problem with looking for a scapegoat is that you can always find one. (4) If we are talking about SA, priests are no more likely to commit it than other professionals doing similar work. In fact, they appear to be significantly less likely to do so than teachers.
I love your TH-cam Shorts and your podcast, have you ever thought of making storytelling videos like Bayley Sarian from Dark History? I feel it could be even more awesome with the pictures and stuff, maybe its me that I'm more of a visual person but anyway, I love your content.
Similar thing happened in my family with mental illnesses and psychical illnesses. I also have a big family. But one by one we all ended up with something. Doctors were confused. But it call came down to my mother's poor genes and her abuse.
Bipolar has a huge genetic component. As an example: my maternal grandmother’s has seven grandchildren, but five of us have Bipolar disorder (and one of the other two is suspected to have it as well).
I read the book and desperately want to watch this documentary as well. The book is great for anyone that wants to read it. It's called hidden valley road.
I watched it too and it was so incredibly sad. Very interesting though. Donald and Matthew are still alive and theres a trust you can donate to online to help them get out and do activities ❤ their sister Margaret is an angel
It’s unsurprising that multiple siblings got the same disorder, since a lot of mental illnesses are genetic or have genetic predispositions , most likely both parents were carrying it in some way probably from their ancestors. I personally share all but 1 of my mother’s mental illnesses and we have quite a few , depression, anxiety, PTSD (that ones not genetic but it weird that it happened 3 generations in a row) and ADHD. She has bipolar which i don’t have and I have autism which she doesn’t have.
It is rather interesting, how some person has something; but maybe no one else in the family has the exact thing the first person does. In my family, my mom has ADHD; it has an 80% chance of being passed on to offspring. If my brother has ADHD, it wasn't obvious; he's severely autistic and behaves like a toddler. I have ADHD, and later was diagnosed with autism, depression and anxiety. My sister was not diagnosed with anything, but acknowledges her behavior has neurodivergent traits, similar to being on the spectrum. My dad was told by one of the doctors who diagnosed my brother that his (Dad) behavior was somewhat on the spectrum, obvious only to a trained professional. On my mom's side, one of my cousins has autism; the other has ADHD. My dad's brother has characteristics of ADHD; his daughter behaves as if she's a bit on the spectrum and was diagnosed with ADHD. My sister has observed that dad's mother has characteristics of anxiety; something she got from her mother, but she is quick to overanalyze a situation -- perhaps a bit on the spectrum, my sister thinks. What behaviors and conditions are we born with? Which ones are products of our upbringing? Do children accept the behavior of a neurodiverse parent as normality and imitate? I'm so curious about neurodiverse behavior in families
It's likely that they had all the precursors then as more and more siblings were affected the environment became more stressful and chaotic and started triggering it in the younger siblings. I saw a comment on here that mentioned that schizophrenia is more complicated than 1 gene and its more that there are a series of things including multiple genes that create a vulnerability that can then be triggered by stress. Because they were all siblings they all had similar vulnerabilities which were then triggered by the stress of the chaos of the household (which was no one's fault. If they had gone to an asylum they would have been badly abused. It was best for them to be at home with their family. It's just a very unfourtunate and sad situation)
You have been well propagandized. There is no reason to assume that this was caused by a person. The problem with looking for a scapegoat is that one can always find one.
Back then anything that went wrong was the Mom's fault. I was told that it was believed my son's autism was my fault...but in the 90's they started questioning that theory.
The problem with looking for scapegoats is that one can always find one. They used to blame the mother, now they blame a random man - preferably a priest.
I read the book, which is really a case history of the Galvin family and it's fascinating. I felt sorry for the mother and some of the children. Anyone who decides to have 12 children really ought to think carefully before doing so as the medical consequences may be overwhelming, as they were in this case.
It's crazy how many conditions have been blamed on moms. Not attentive enough, too attentive, didn't give enough consequences, too many consequences.... it's not even history this still happens. I recently had a school counselor try to blame my son's adhd on me, she wasn't sure what was going wrong but surely something was wrong at home to cause these behaviors that are very specifically linked to his already diagnosed (and confirmed by additional professionals) ADHD, and that meant it had to be on my parenting because my spouse had been stationed elsewhere for 4 years and couldn't be the one at fault. My spouse also happens to have ADHD but wasn't diagnosed until a couple of years before our child was. Thankfully the other school counselor has more experience with kids with ADHD and has been kind and helpful and doesn't blame unexpected medical conditions on the moms. I've also seen a group of people irl blaming a mother for her child having autism. Like what do you think she's doing feeding her child autism for breakfast? Ridiculous. You've got to take full responsibility for your child's negative behaviors, getting them therapies and services they need, helping them make and keep friends, helping them learn make better "expected" decisions... it takes up so much of your life to help this child you love and want the best for but oh, this condition you didn't expect is now also your fault.
Wanna know the worst part. Quite literally unless she got harmed or took drugs/alcohol while pregnant, it’s usually dad’s fault 70% of the time. Older men makes shlt sperm and can lead to kids having issues. And their stuff usually chose what’s what when an undeveloped human is being made. And last reason is that they’re (not all, just some) so egotistical that they can’t accept that they might be the problem or that their girl is better than them
Mom's are an emotional centre point. And maybe rather than putting the blame on mothers the responsibility falls on the men. That they provide an environment of thriving for their family part of which is to ensure that the mom is provided enough, secure enough, and given resources of support for her to be able to be nurturing for a growing family.
Adhd kids are extremely sensitive and pick up even the unspoken stresses of both parents and the family dynamics. I'm glad you found a skilled professional who is professional and not judgementaland will be able to teach you how to help your Neuro gifted child to thrive in a way unique to him or her ❤
I saw it not long ago, and it's so upsetting that help.was not gotten sooner. There was far too much suffering and problems. So devastating! I felt especially bad for the girls!
My grandparents on my Dad's side had 4 kids. 3 of them were schizophrenic, including my father and one had substance abuse trouble likely from undiagnosed mental health issues. So far none of their kids exhibit schizophrenic traits, although other mental health issues are present. It is a terrifying illness and hard to grow up thinking you may lose your mind one day.
i read a book about this family for a school psych project. it was really good. it was called hidden valley roads. the subject matter was hard to get through and i don’t remember much of it. i can’t wait to see what happened to the family through a visual format, since that’s how i learn best.
My firstborn son had developed symptoms of schizophrenia in the years leading up to his death when he was just 26 years old, so I pay attention whenever i come across things about schizophrenia. The most surprising thing I've learned is that not one blind person has ever been diagnosed with schizophrenia.
Y’all haven’t watched this show, it’s really in depth and explains so much. It was interesting to watch and I recommend it. I feel so bad for this family and especially the youngest child, she didn’t deserve that treatment growing up.
Yes, there are multiple genes that may increase the risk of developing schizophrenia, but no single gene is thought to be responsible: C4: Located on chromosome 6, this gene is known to play a role in immunity and is the strongest known genetic risk for schizophrenia. SRRM2: A previously unknown gene linked to schizophrenia. AKAP11: A risk gene for both schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. PCLO: A gene that carries risk for both schizophrenia and autism. GRIN2A: Also important in epilepsy and neurodevelopmental disorders. 3q29 deletion: Cuts 21 specific genes and raises your risk by 40 times. 22q11 deletion: Raises your risk by about 30 times.
People in authority love to blame the mothers for EVERYTHING!! I’ve had teachers stare me down while my husband sat right next to me! Apparently it was MY fault our youngest son was having trouble learning in 2nd grade!! Every time he had an asthma attack… that was MY fault as well!! How many want to bet it was the priest in this case??
When there is overwhelming evidence that genetics or a pathogen is the cause of most cases of schizophrenia, why do you presume a _person_ caused it? The problem with looking for a scapegoat is that one can always find one. After having been the scapegoat I would hope that you would understand this principle better than most.
@@alanlight7740 I’m not saying schizophrenia isn’t genetic. But, it could have come from the father’s side. It may have laid dormant until they were “touched” by the priest… and then made itself known. My issue is… everyone LOVES to blame the mother for everything that goes wrong with their children!! Decades ago when they couldn’t check for a low sperm count… the wife was blamed for not getting pregnant. Etc etc etc. . Just like in this story, the mother is automatically responsible. That was my point.
@@alanlight7740 It was brought up that the family believed the priest did something to the boys. My point was, that abuse most likely set off their psychosis. Of course we don’t know for sure. I’m just tired of the mother always being blamed first and foremost.
@@KimSearch865 - With SIX boys presumably affected, one would think that at least one of them would have SAID something. They became schizophrenic, not mute. Which means I severely discount "the family believed". Either they had evidence which they refused to present, or they have no evidence. I do appreciate that you are tired of mothers being blamed for things beyond their control, but the issue is much larger than that. You can try to cut off the branches of this poisonous human tendency to seek scapegoats, or you can strike at the root.
There is unfortunately a human tendency to look for scapegoats, and the problem with looking for scapegoats is that you can always find one. Just look at this video and the comments section: many people reject the idea that the mother was the cause only to blame the priest despite a lack of evidence that he did anything wrong - and despite the strong evidence for a genetic or pathogenic cause.
They do not seem to have any evidence that a creep was involved, only speculation. It is a circular argument: this condition occurred, and although there is firm evidence of genetic and pathogenic causes for this condition we assume a creep must have been the cause. We further assume that priests are likely to be creeps although the best evidence we have is that they are less likely than average, and a priest was present at times; ergo the priest must have been a creep and caused this condition that is usually the result of genetics or a pathogen. The problem with looking for a scapegoat is that one can always find one.
@@alanlight7740I hope this helped you feel better about the speculation somehow? But it’s pretty factual that child abuse of this nature has been and is currently an absolute epidemic and triggers massive states of mental and emotional decline in the victims - it makes sense.
@@alanlight7740 additionally, the creep wasn’t the cause of the condition but as is common in many cases where a major mental illness is present, abuse and trauma certainly can and often will trigger the illness in those already predisposed. It’s not a problem and it’s noncontroversial to make that connection and to want creeps and abusers to be held accountable for their part in irreparably damaging another person in this way.
@@NierielHoneybee - I've seen some of the "evidence" you speak of, and it is underwhelming. It all starts with the presumption that "child abuse of this nature" causes irreparable life long harm, and works backwards from there. There has been a little solid research on the subject that avoids this obvious trap, and it has consistently gotten very different results. I fear that by focusing on the wrong target we are delaying solutions and even making things worse via the nocebo effect.
@@alanlight7740you are honestly incredibly sus or in denial to be pushing against the very obvious and clear cause and effect that abuse will cause irreparable damage and can very much lead to triggering major mental and/or physical illness in victims. Putting effort into getting rid of one trigger of those predisposed to these problems is not an issue. The problem may start as something genetic and pathogenic, but if it could just stay dormant without the body being forced into horrible states of fight or flight or a singular horrible enough instance due to abusive, dangerous people, it would be worth making sure the abuse doesn’t fucking happen and making the connection that it would make things a million times worse.
I also want to mention here - not only was Schizophrenia often a misdiagnosis, the term “childhood schizophrenia” was actually what was used prior to us realizing that Autism is a thing. True schizophrenia in childhood is exceedingly rare. So, there’s a good chance some of the younger boys were actually autistic, not schizophrenic. On that note - schizophrenia and autism could have some relation to each other genetically, in addition to Bipolar disorder. The jury’s still out if this is in fact the case or not, though.
The most tragic thing was that one of the brothers was graping the daughter when she went to visit him when he was older. She'd eventually decide that it was better than being home with the other schizophrenic brothers raging every day. She told the Mom and she did nothing. Yeah, that was tragic. I swear it's always the super religious families.
Max is not available where I am. Could you do an episode. Looks really interesting. I am a healer. There is a demonic component to this illness @heartstartspounding
Blame the struggling mother when its actually a deranged trusted man in town? Tale as old as time.
😂😂
True as it can be.
@gaintturnip then somebody bends, unexpectedly...
Im sorry, it's a serious subject. The line was just - right there lol
yh
Hi I did my masters on schizophrenia research. Its not really one gene and then stress triggers it. The current understanding is a "hit model" were there are many hits needed hits can include multiple genetic markers, illness during pregnancy, stress, child abuse, weed smoking as a young adult, alcohol, food and water you eat as a child, hormonal markers and changes, and much much more!!!! Noone knows how many "hits" it takes and it could drastically change from person to person. I hate how boiled down Schizophrenia keeps getting! It is so complicated and it is so important that the right info gets out to help understand this illness that is really disruptive to people's lives.
Hiya, thank you.
Thanks for this explanation! Really informative
How would water and food a contributing factor? Just curious. Thank you so much for posting this information.
@@koichan7457my best guess would be if someone doesn’t have enough nutrients it could affect things, but I’m not entirely sure
Hi, something I’ve always wondered is whether our understanding of mental illnesses suffers greatly from the impulse to see these things in a rigidly black and white perspective instead of on a spectrum or even, as seems to be the case with neurodivergence, as an array of trait clusters that are often grouped together as diagnoses but which in reality have far to much in common to be entirely separate afflictions (autism/OCD/CPTSD/ADHD)
I also wonder with many mental illnesses and also neurodivergence how much of our current model is pathologizing what could be seen as traits that are actually “normal” human behavior variations that are incompatible with the way we live in society today. There is a theory that some of what is wrong with us is similar to a behavioral breakdown that animals in zoos can experience called zoochosis (zoo psychosis).
I have little formal education on the topic but I’ve always been interested out of curiosity and for, er, personal reasons lol.
They used to blame everything on the mom. Autism used to be thought to be caused by "bad mothers". Even if a man is around they will blame the woman every time. Still do most times even today.
Refrigerator parenting, not bad mothers… A psych noted that the mothers of children on the spectrum lacked warmth & affection, and the fathers were uninvolved and distant…. There was no biomedical model in those days. We first had a neurological theory proposed by a psych named Rimland who had a child on the spectrum himself….
@TheBreechie Well my autistic son had a ton of love and affection and a father that was around and available
I remember family telling my mom it was her fault that I was “different”. I hope she didn’t believe that. But she passed before knowing my autism diagnosis. So, I’ll never know.
My eyes rolled so hard when the mother was blamed.
@@TheBreechiePsychiatrist Kanner who coined the term "refrigerator mothering" described it as mothers traumatizing their children to retreat into autism with cold parenting. So yes, he did mean that mothers of autistic children were "bad mothers." There is no positivity associated with the description of cold, uncaring, and lacking maternal warmth.
Child Ab’use is a very Evil Crime against Humanity.
And the ultimate child abuse is abortion.
Same with ra'pe, trafficking, anything that completely disregards human worth
@@noorashiraz9046 It All starts with Child Ab’use - children from loving, healthy homes don’t usually grow up to become cri’minals, Ra’pists or Traffi’ckers….
ty for saying this.
Facts! We as a society want to down play this but the trauma this produces shows we must do more!!!!
Typical for doctors to claim it’s the mother’s fault. And this definitely seems like the era where sa isn’t talked about or addressed
Oddly, they are now seeing a connection with schizophrenia and cat ownership. Apparently this family raised falcons. Birds and cats have the same parasites and bacteria often. It’s kind of an interesting theory that perhaps that’s what happened here.
My sibling did get schizophrenia gene from my mother who got it from her father who was in concentration camp. All tree triggered by immense stress. I was kinda lucky cause i left, but i may get the trigger too in the future. Which is scary. So generational gene is a thing.
I am so glad someone else brought this up. I worked in a field loosely related to mental health and I can tell you, this is a huge problem. The mothers get blamed for a lot, even in the evidence of genetics. I've seen this with healthcare providers but also with society views in general. Heck once I got the beat down of my life and they tried to blame me for what happened before the family told them that level of aggression was being observed everywhere. It scared me so much I switched jobs.
Thanks Freud.
@@agricolaregsThat's interesting. I thought it was largely genetic.
this is also from an era where schizophrenia was WIDELY and WILDLY misdiagnosed. a wife who didn’t want to do her wifely duties for example could receive a schizophrenia diagnosis…
It's interesting you say this because in the documentary, one of the sons was given a diagnosis immediately after he was violent towards his brother. No other symptoms. It made me wonder if his diagnosis was given for fear that he was like his brothers, not because he was actually schizophrenic.
@@heartstartspoundingwhich brother are you referring to? I doubt the doctor who diagnosed him didn’t have a differential diagnostic list to go through before writing up the medical report. All doctors have to document what they see and what is reported. Even if the doctor was lazy i doubt the parents brought the son in to a doctor after only one incident of being violent.
@@heartstartspoundingalso….it was repeatedly emphasized in the documentary that the mother tried to keep her sons home for treatment and tried to prevent them from being institutionalized therefore i doubt she would have so easily brought the son in to be diagnosed with a disease that would have led to permanent hospitalization which was a common occurrance/treatment back then.
The Galvins agreed to have their children genetically tested by Dr. DeLisi who found the DNA link between schizophrenia and genetics in their family DNA. Therefore, in this case no…they were not misdiagnosed.
And in the case of women who didn’t want to do their wifely duties…i have no idea. We don’t know the details of each of thoses cases to make a definitive statement that those women didn’t have a mental illness. One of the symptoms of depression is lack of sex drive so it could be true that a wife who didn’t want to do her “wifely duties” might have actually had schizophrenia or depression. The two diagnosis usually are comorbid (occur together. One can trigger the other or both can arise in the same person.)
(Sidenote: I studied psychology for 4 years and medicine and psychiatry for 6 years.)
I watched it and saw a lot of things that mirrored my brother. He has Schizo- Affective Disorder. His delusions and hallucinations actually started in childhood which is rare. It was scary growing up because most of his delusions were to kill me. His voices constantly told him that if I was dead they would go away
that is so terrifying, I hope you're okay ❤
@stardufs i am now he is completely cut out of my life. As an adult he decided he didn't need meds just meth.
@@samiballew4609I'm so sorry for all that happened to you. If you don't mind me asking (if you do, don't feel obligated in any way to answer these questions) do you have any feelings for him? Especially any positive ones? I imagine it's very hard if not impossible to separate the person from the disease in such circumstances. Were you able to heal from this? And what did your parents do to keep you safe? You must have been so stressed you're entire childhood, this shouldn't have happened to you or anyone for that matter.
@alexmagney5326 not anymore and my mother did her best to protect me and to help my brother with his issues. He was so violent that he ended up in a few facilities. She had him in therapy and on meds. She was a single mother and tried her absolute best. I no longer have any feelings toward him except anger. I found out he threatened and tried to hurt my children. That was it. He has been dead to me from that point on.
I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night oml 😭
My father was a police officer in Milwaukee Wisconsin about 30 years ago he told me a story about how a lady had called the police and he came to take the report.The report was saying how a priest at their Church had molested her son she was of course frantic my dad took the report and immediately called his staff sergeant telling him the horrific seriousness of the details of the case.. the sergeant said not to leave and that he'd be there shortly when he arrived he was with a higher priest of the Catholic Church and told my dad to go wait in the kitchen. The higher priest, the sergeant and the mother all went in another room to talk after talking for about 20 minutes the staff sergeant came out and told my dad not to file a report my dad said okay and left and did the exact opposite he said I figured the report will probably get thrown out even if I filed it but damned if I wasn't going to try. These molestations of the Catholic Church have gone on for far too long
Woooooooow. That’s wild. I’ve heard conspiracies of pedophile cases where people like your dad/ his rank (at that time) are told to step off the case and it goes unsolved. Makes you think of the friends in high places some of these sickos have
That is infuriating!!! Adults and supposed “godly” people covering for a monster. I can’t wrap my mind around it!! 😡
Fuck that. I would have turned over my badge that day.
Wow. Just wow.
My cousin was rpd by a priest in illinois. The family kept it hush, hush. None of the cousins, aunts, uncles etc knew. My cousin turned to drugs and alcohol. It really messed him up for about 25 years.
That family went through it for sure...not only schizophrenia but tack on priest sexual abuse, incest abuse, torture of siblings, lack of knowledge from doctors, I mean dang!
Yeah I read the book and the sisters who didn't have schizophrenia, lived in fear a lot of the time.
@@cniknik9863I believe it. Why didn't the sick ones get institutionalized so the rest of the family could live in peace?
@@thedeviouspanda apparently the mother really tried to keep them home to prevent that. Which I understand, being institutionalized at these points in time sounds like signing a loved one up for torture and mistreatment.
@@ayoayo1044wards and institutions are already considered bad nowadays so im assuning they probably were torture-like back then
I learned real quick that the history of psychiatry is a deeply disturbing hell hole.
Still is
My mother is a paranoid schizophrenic. It was triggered later in her life by remembering repressed memories of sexual abuse in elementary school by the schools janitor. My mother and her two sisters started reminiscing on a visit together and all started to remember horrific experiences and two of them (my mother being one) started exhibiting schizophrenia. It took 8 years of hell to get her properly diagnosed and her meds correct, she’s gotten off her meds a few times in the past 35 years and the mental health system is a nightmare.
Evil people hurt children and the havoc they cause in its wake is beyond words. My mother is a sweetheart and she has so much shame around what happened to her and her illness. I wish I could make her understand that we don’t think about it that way, it’s just like having any other illnesses and you treat them, this is no different. It’s unfortunate, but it’s treatable.
I’m so sorry this happened to your mum 😢 I know two people who suffer from schizophrenia and both of them were sexually abused as children.
My heart hurts for your mom, hopefully one day the healthcare system will be forced to be better
@@rainfromabove999 thank you, that is very kind of you.
🙏🏾❤️
Devastating series. I grew up with brothers who had undiagnosed bipolar disorders and rage. I feared for my life daily.
Sucks
Same, one brother tho. He molested me and would hit me a lot. As I got older I started fighting back but in the back of my mind I was terrified. He now lives in the country we are from, goes from living in the street to mental rehab places, still does drugs and yeah.
I went through this I have a brother who has schizophrenia and bipolarism my childhood was a living h e l l he tried to kill me multiple times among other things I don't speak to him now that I'm an adult I'm absolutely terrified of him
That’s so scary! Why did your parents allow them to be around you? I’m sorry but if I had a kid that wanted hurt my other children, that kid has got to go to a mental ward or something. I am not having someone dangerous in my house.
@@dawnyofthelighthow did your parents not protect you? Why did they let him around you? If he had actually killed your would be their fault for not doing anything about his attempts. I’m so sorry you had to go through that and have such fear and stress growing up.
70's Psychologists: Let's blame the mother!
The Priest: Yeah... Yeah!
Automatically blaming a priest is no better than automatically blaming a mother.
There is no reason to even assume that a person was responsible for this disease.
@alanlight7740 idk, man. I just made the comment based on _the domumentary's_ suggestion. I'm not personally blaming a random priest, dude.
@@actuallyAtlas1989 - yes, this was chiefly the fault of the documentarian.
I did recognize your joke and even chuckled a little. But the underlying problem remains.
@@alanlight7740 i mean...regardless of the disease cause, you can still blame the priest for being a horrible person and abusing children
@@ThatOneAlligator - sure. And I can also blame _you_ for being a horrible person and abusing children.
I mean, it may not be reasonable to do so, it probably isn't true - but I could just make a rule to blame anyone with a TH-cam name starting with "ThatOne" for being a horrible person and abusing children.
And how would that be different from automatically blaming mothers or priests?
Imagine stressing someone out so bad that you curse them with a potentially avoidable illness.
That's so scary for those boys
My great grandma's was triggered by her husband leaving her for a younger woman, leaving her and their 4 children to freeze and starve. A relative took the youngest, a boy, the two older girls (15&16) got married to the first boys who offered and their little sister lived between the houses. Their mom went to Eloise asylum until it closed down.
My uncle's was triggered by a bad drug trip. There was no where to send him for help, and he didn't trust anyone, so he lived on the streets. Eventually he went to prison for the mental insane on terrorism charges. He called a police department and said he was going to shoot up a post office. Even the cops said he was harmless and was calling on himself, but we've got strict terrorism laws in Michigan. He finally got the help he needed in there, until he passed from skin cancer.
I'm in my masters program to become a clinical mental health counselor.
The parents seemed pretty awful too. The mom was rigid and controlling, yet refused to safeguard her children when the were beating on each other relentlessly. When her daughter reported that the older brother was raping her, she gaslit her daughter. The mom was more interested in keeping up appearances than her children's well being. And the dad was totally checked out from family life.
Apparently the documentary did not actually reflect how the family was in real life. One of the sister came out and said that the stuff they gave her to see was not the end result and it makes her family and parents look awful when it didn’t happen like they tell it in the show
12 kids.. how would you keep any order in that ._.
Yeah it doesn't sound like a safe household at all.
Ngl I thought the same thing when it was mentioned that the doctors blamed the mother. She might not have been directly responsible but she wasn't protective of her kids which in effect might have triggered their issues
@@sarahwenger4479 I've read what she had to write. She is in deep deep denial. The brothers talk about the abuse the mother ignored and enabled. And that sister even told her story of SA that her mother gaslit. It's pretty obvious from multiple sources that my previous statement is accurate. She cannot control the narrative even if she wants to.
Schizophrenia is a multifactorial disorder caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors. Reducing schizophrenia to one gene negates the nuance of the disorder. In the case of the Galvin brothers, a mutation in the SHANK2 gene was present in 7 of the brothers, but only six of the brothers developed schizophrenia. Thus, researchers can't definitively say that a mutation in SHANK2 will lead to the development of schizophrenia. Other genes have been implicated in schizophrenia, such as DISC1 and SHANK3. These genes play important roles in post-synaptic functions. Moreover, individuals with schizophrenia are more likely to be born in winter or early spring, possibly due to a seasonal varying factor that impacts the development of the central nervous system. Maternal infection during pregnancy (influenza) has also been implicated in the development of schizophrenia. 14%-21% cases of schizophrenia are linked to maternal infections during pregnancy, potentially due to the elevated presence of cytokines in the maternal circulation. Cancer is similar to multifactorial disorders because one mutation in one gene is not enough to cause it. Cancer is caused by the accumulation of mutations in various types of genes, such as proto-oncogenes and tumor suppressor genes. Reducing environmental stressors and harmful agents can help you reduce the risk of developing cancers and multifactorial disorders. However, we can only try our best because we can't control who we are born to or where we live in certain circumstances. I have a background in Molecular Biology, so I enjoy studying these topics.
Very true. I learned this after consulting and being tested by a geneticist. I have a gene for "genetic schizophrenia." Not surprising, as I have close relatives with schizophrenia over several generations. Dr warned me that if I have biological children, there was a a higher likelihood of them having schizophrenia. I have the gene, but it isn't active in me. Why? It's complicated, as you wrote. There's a lot to it.
thank you, that was very informative. could you recommend some books on the subject?
@@delia_watercolors NOT to get too deep in your business, but has this impacted your decision on whether to have kids or not?
Why isn't this form of testing free and widely available to prevent passing issues on to future generations?
Damn my brother has schizophrenia and was born in February 😢
Plus abusing drugs can bring some mental illness to be active when it was dormant previously 😢😕
Yes, very true. A very close friend of my only starting having problems after getting into drugs in her mid-20s. She was diagnosed with schizophrenic bipolar disorder. She really struggled for a long time afterwards, but now she's got the right medication combo, gets a good amount of sleep, and that seems to have really helped.
@@bwabwa8810 it's tough bc bipolar and schizophrenia typically present between the ages of 18 and mid-20's which is when most ppl experiment with drugs.
There's no conclusive evidence that drugs can trigger a disorder that wouldn't have presented itself anyway. But we do know that drugs (prescription and street drugs) can trigger episodes in mania, hypomania, depression, psychosis, paranoia, etc. (Even in ppl who have never had setious mental health issues, and may never again after one experience induced by drugs).
I hope your friend is doing much better now!
Drug abuse can also trigger schizophrenia in certain people. It's really sad to watch.
I have read and heard that drug abuse as well as people being drugged can cause schizophrenia like systems plus other mental illnesses.
@@INTJ_PJ scary, huh!?!
Don’t ever trust anyone with your children. Man, woman, priest, teacher, etc. Not even family is safe, especially for several days!!
I wish people would understand that more and stop getting offended for being the person that is not trusted! Its not personal but damn you never know who a child predator is EVER they dont make it obvious or come right out and say it so how would you know!
@@alysiav173 deadass, I get so scared for my nieces and nephews and I never let them with any relative in a room alone, people as close as uncles, because there are literally no guarantees and id rather be hyper vigilant than ever let them experience the horrors of molestation and sexual harassment. People forget that statistics indicate that children are most likely to be harassed and assaulted by relatives and family friends because these are the people who have access to them..
@@ilafnasreldin2637EXACTLY you are doing a good job
How about learn to trust others instead of being Marlin the clown fish and being afraid of everyone and everything around you?
Sadly you can't keep kids in a bubble forever.
I'm somebody with schizophrenia and Unfortunately was abused growing up and so remember that when it started, my symptoms got way worse. As a child i wasn't heard and i was constantly scared so I've withheld A LOT of my issues, I'm now what you'd consider a high functioning schizophrenic person. The struggle is real and scary, i still have very uncontrollably low times with not so many high but everything is going still so that's alright i guess.
I hope you are doing well ❤
Maybe I don't know you irl, but that doesn't stop me from feeling proud of you for coming this far. That won't stop me from wishing you the best and praying for you ❤
It was so hard and confusing growing up with a schizophrenic father, but I loved him so much and I miss him every day❤❤❤
What happened to him? 😢
What was that like? What was your day to day life like?
My grandpa (not by blood, but he'd raised my mum and her siblings since she was 10 when her real dad went out for smokes and never came home) was a paranoid schizophrenic. His mom used to lock him in a linen closet for days and weeks at a time. When he was on medication he was the sweetest, most docile older gentleman you'd ever meet. When he was taken off his meds (still not sure why his docs did this) he drank every chemical he could find in the house, chased my grandma with a knife, tried to attack the cops and almost succeeded in jumping off a cliff before he was wrestled to the ground and taken away in an ambulance. I witnessed most of these episodes between the ages of 6 and 15. They kept changing his meds and had him go with nothing in between new meds to purge the old meds from his system. He lunged over a check out line and tried to attack a young cashier for spying on him to the CIA. He would ask me if i saw the pink elephants in the hospital room. All kinds of things. They FINALLY got his meds straightened out and he never had another episode again. He went about 20 years without one until he passed away from cancer around 2005
Abuse like that is like a light switch for some genes. This can include not only genes for mental illness but we see auto immune disorders pop out too. It’s so sad how these sick people ruin lives and just carry on with their own. I’ve unfortunately got to see the bad genes bust out like the kool-Aid man in my sisters and me. My older sister lost the mental illness genetic roulette. She unfortunately carries the gene for schizophrenia. It breaks my heart and I wish I could hold the people accountable that did this to her.
Lol we don’t know what’s causing it sooooooo BLAME THE WOMAN! 🤦🏻♀️
People often don't realise even nowadays how much serious mental illnesses depend on trauma. It is very rare for things like schizophrenia or bipolar to manifest without trauma. Yes, there can be a genetic predisposition, but it almost always needs to be triggered by a life altering trauma. Mine was having two abusive relationships back to back, the latter of which was with a woman I really saw a future with until the abuse started. I've now dealt with bipolar for two years and only recently started treatment. And as someone with delusions, I can say first hand that sometimes those delusions of grandeur are the only time you feel whole after that kind of abuse.
I think schizophrenia people born in happy homes are just much less likely to have their schizophrenia noticed.
Trauma can simply be growing up or living in a household with a crazy person for an extended period of time. It doesn’t have to be something that directly happens to you.
My siblings all have some pretty serious personality disorders. Most people in my family are predisposed to certain types of insanity, myself included, but I managed to avoid the worst of it simply because I’m the oldest. By the time the dominos started to fall I had the most developed brain.
I was never abused, but I watched people I love slowly lose their sanity in front of me and in front of each-other …..and I am crazier for it. I was always gonna deal with depression and anxiety, but I am toeing the line of certain paranoia based disorders that I wouldn’t be if it weren’t for trauma.
Schizophrenia is not a death sentence and people who have it are not evil. I have friends and family who have it, and there are definitely a lot of different variations of it. Some people have an extremely mild form. But sure others who have it can be more paranoid. But they are not bad people. Many of them are truly great people.
Also, the severity of the schizophrenia does not imply the severity of the harm it causes.
Yup. And what a lot of people don’t realize is that Schizophrenia is a mental illness that can be passed down genetically. My grandmother, mom, older brother, little sister, another older brother, uncles, all had it. It’s like Russian roulette, you don’t know who’s gonna actually get it. But when it’s senior year in high school that’s when you start seeing signs and in University age range is when it’s full blown. Unfortunately, my bloodline has paranoia schizophrenia. Which in turn I lost some family
Members very violently due to this mental illness. My other older brother who is alive has violent and I mean violent narcissistic disorder (don’t know where that came from) and I cannot be around him as he will try to unalive me. Don’t ask me how the gene skipped me but if I have children then most likely I will pass it down to them. And why I refuse to have children, I cannot bear to watch my own child go through what I have and am currently going through. Please everyone keep your mental health first.🙏🏿
I’ve seen so many examples of smart young people going off to college and then having to come back home after a mental breakdown. It often seems to start in the late teens and early twenties.
@@misstriciaskitchen8640 exactly. Same thing happened to my little sister, RIP. She went to University @ 16. A year later she was clinically diagnosed. At 36 she’s gone. Along with my father. Both were highly intelligent people. It’s crazy that your mind can be your best friend or your worse enemy.
My grandpa was schizo, my grandparents had 4 kids, one drowned when he was 16 but the other three, including my mom were and are all schizophrenic. I asked my brother why none of us siblings are and he said it's a male dominant gene, so if the father has it it's more likely to get passed down. Just talked to my schizo mom today, she's still crazy, but I love her
I’m definitely going to check this out. I have a sister who is bipolar and schizophrenic, we was not raised together so when she came to stay with me, I seen the signs, I couldn’t imagine it being 6 out of 12 having this disorder. But she definitely gave me a different perspective on it because I knew that this is a real thing but seeing it first hand was kinda scary. She definitely would seem like a different person on many different occasions. She is a beautiful and extremely smart individual but she chooses to live on the streets then to get the help she needs so my only hope and prayers is that she is safe wherever she’s at. Please keep my sisters safety in your prayers.🙏🏽
She is in denial or something else happen on her brain?
@@anti_sse basically denial but she knows it’s a issue because she gets SSI for it. Worst part is she is so freaking smart kind and loving but she lives in a world that’s in her head and unfortunately it makes it hard for her to maintain what you need to do to live. Example instead of getting and keeping a job she literally set up my desk and old keyboard with no screen saying she’s in school and has an office desk. Meanwhile these are things I had stored away but to her downstairs was her office/school room. I do hope where ever she is she is safe. And hopefully I will get to meet her ex husband and his wife so I can meet my niece for the first time whom is a teen now. Mental illness is such a huge problem so I hope she is getting help wherever she is.
All of my mothers family had mental health issues. Their father was SA and abusing them.
My nana always tells me about how her brother George was so bright and sharp and then all the sudden at the age like 12 after going to some camp to teach boys to become preists or something he came back completely insane and got diagnosed schizophrenic and was never able to function alone as an adult his whole life. She thinks the preists did something to him. He smoked a literal carton of cigarettes a day till he died and had the mind of like a weirdly mature 8 yr old in an old man adult body but was very nice. Her other brother almost went completely insane too and tried off himself multiple times in his youth but after an insanely high prescription of lithium for a while, then becoming Christian instead of Catholic, he came off the meds and lives beautiful quiet peaceful life with his wife and many kids.
Catholics are christians🤨
Infuriating. How can people abuse kids like that.
There is only speculation that a priest did something to him, whereas we know there are genetic and pathogenic causes of schizophrenia, and that schizophrenia usually strikes at about that age.
We should be careful about looking for scapegoats because we can _always_ find one.
@@alanlight7740 it's remarkable how these things occur at the same time. And priests have a bad reputation now. Deservedly so. So no need for you to stick up for them. They should get rid of that cursed celibacy that caused so many of them to sa children. Let's work on that. Let's make that a cause to save the children worldwide still in danger from these people.
One advancement of medicine is that Schizophrenia can be shown on an FMRI. I live with bipolar disorder and got diagnosed as a child. About 4 years ago my psychiatrist got an FMRI approved to check for some damage due to meds and also asked for it to be checked to see if there were any brain markers for schizophrenia (I had no other symptoms). It was negative. One of my friends got her diagnosis confirmed with an FMRI and has gotten better treatment.
For it to run in a family is rough but it’s also wild that only the boys were diagnosed. However even now, schizophrenic women are diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder or Bipolar when it’s actually schizophrenia
Before BPD, it was hysteria for women
Ugh that is so sad. My grandma had schizophrenia and was resistant to treatment right until the end of her life. Cause how can you convince somebody to take medicine or go to the hospital when they are 100% certain that the doctors are evil and trying to poison them? It’s so hard to see somebody you love so terrified and have no way to comfort or help them.
I was diagnosed with schizophrenia when I was 41 but before that bipolar major depression social anxiety multiple personality disorder. I stopped going to the doctor as it got too much the more the said my diagnosis. I was abused by around 10 man and woman but I never understood I thought everybody brains were like motel rooms with secret rooms and we didn’t open them. Each room has brought me unbelievably content is how I have to face it sometimes. Iv notice some of my kids are just like me but have had really good life with 1 bad experience so it’s mind blowing. I hope this makes sense
I have some questions did you ever doubt you had schizophrenia when you were experiencing symptoms? did you ever doubt your delusions or try to suppress them? Did you ever give yourself some space to decide if you believe your delusions? Because I’m not sure if I experienced schizophrenia or if it’s ocd
@@FatimaMalla
For a long time I feared I had schizophrenia, turns out that it was OCD. The range of symptoms is baffling.
This reminds me of my dad who had CPTSD and possibly dissociative identity disorder (same thing as multiple personality disorder) and it’s not at all like people think or how it’s portrayed. It’s not obvious and I didn’t really “see” the dissociation part until my 30’s. I just thought he had a lot of different moods and different interests.
He was abused in early childhood and later in childhood by multiple people in multiple ways as well. One of them was a Big Brother at the United Way.
Then, when he was 12 and his mother died (single mom self-medicating with opiates) and left him an orphan he started hearing a voice. He only heard one, but it often taunted him or told him to hurt himself. He even gave it a name. He didn’t always believe the voice, it was more of an internal battle for him.
He was a great dad though and he never hurt me. He was sometimes a little overprotective, but he was very loving father. My parents divorced when I was 3 and i spent summers and some holiday vacations with him. We sometimes argued, but just like any kid and parent.
I always knew he heard a voice because my mom told me, but he told me himself when I was in my 30’s. Before that, I had found things he had written to, or because of, the voice, but didn’t tell him.
I have ptsd, but not because of him ( it was from emotional abuse and neglect from a narcissistic mother) and not nearly to his degree, but I had been to a lot of years of therapy before he told me about his own experience himself and how he felt “crazy”.
I was able to explain PTSD to him and how trauma can cause these things and he was very relieved and was later diagnosed with it.
He died when I was 40, and he was 60. He had rheumatic heart disease from untreated strep as a kid too.
I miss him and I feel like he was the only person that really understood me. I’m 50 now and I’ve never had delusions or psychosis, but I do have adhd that was diagnosed at 40 with the ptsd I already had.
To be honest, the parts of me that are like him are the parts I’m most happy to have. The creativity, the curiosity, the empathy, the love of learning and nature and animals.
I would not have changed anything about my dad except for him to suffer less.
I’m telling you this because your story sounded so familiar and I also want you to know that your kids can be just fine and even grateful 💜
@@punkroxgirl I’m curious to why you would say he might have dissociative disorder. getting diagnosed with PTSD later on in life means he went to a doctor so wouldn’t be be diagnosed with DID if he had it? Maybe the voice was just part of his PTSD experience especially since it was more of an internal battle and he felt crazy meaning he was aware of it. Obviously I don’t know everything and I am just basing this on what you wrote.
It's important to note that when we talk about stress triggering genes for mental illnesses, that model for illness describes stressors more broadly than we do in general everyday speech. Good things in life can be stressors in the stress diathesis model too. Being a straight A student, moving to a new house, getting married were examples of high stress but good things that can happen to you that can activate those genes. Like having siblings. Or living in the 80s.
This was such a sad story. It does show how some mental health disorders can be passed down.
My aunt was diagnosed with Schizophrenia when she was 19 in the early 60’s. She unfortunately walked into the woods one day and died from exposure. She was missing for 2 decades by the time they identified her remains. I struggle with major depressive disorder with intense moments of delusion from how depressed or anxious I get and I hope that the help I’m getting now can make sure I don’t get swallowed by it unlike my aunt.
My mother was abusive and am pretty certain combined with my dad, multiple mental illnesses and personality disorders. All 3 of my siblings got stuff like bipolar. I have depression and Autism. For my health and sanity, I left after being basically imprisoned for years for speaking up. They think nothing is wrong with them.
My father was abusive Narcissist and my mother had Autism and extreme anxiety. Years later turns out I was the lucky one of the four who developed Borderline Personality Disorder, Autism, and numerous other mental illnesses. Yay me!
@@AislingMogus For sure, at least my elder brother has BPD. It's nice to know other people went through that.
@@blueroses226 Its a hell scape of a disorder. The worst thing to ever happen to me was developing BPD. Its horrible. I feel for your brother, but glad you got away safe!
Same
@@gotcha9983 OMG, you too?! With being basically imprisoned I mean.
Of course the first person they blame is the mother, and of course it was the priest.
"Poor boys must be delusional, they all keep accusing the pastor of diddling them."
It sounds like they have only speculation that the priest did something unseemly.
The danger of looking for scapegoats is that you can always find one if you look hard enough. It makes little difference whether they find a mother or a priest.
@@alanlight7740given how many priests abuse kids and how the Church helped them do it and get away with it, it's more like it's a feature and not an exception.
It's a more than likely reason.
If you dont want your church to be known for being child abusers dont defend them online. Presure them into not accepting it and shame them into being somewhat human and not morally bankrupt.
@@carpediem4091 - there are several problems with your analysis:
(1) In so much as the RCC (and other churches) have abused children, instilling shame about their sexuality was probably their greatest fault. And that appears to be a fault which you share.
(2) As far as Catholic priests abusing children in the sense that you were speaking of, the best evidence not only points to this being rare, but less common than among the leadership in most other denominations.
(3) From other evidence it is quite clear that the government and media focus on the RCC was primarily in retaliation for the Pope objecting to the U.S. invasion of Iraq. No one in authority really cares - they are just using and reinforcing the moral failings of people like yourself to attack an independent source of influence which might restrict their ability to kill anyone they want around the globe.
(4) If you are primarily interested in preventing abuse of children, sexual or otherwise, we should consider that the organizations where this is most prolific are most governmental. Most notably public schools and various "child protection" agencies. Foster children within the government system, for example, are more likely to be abused within that system than not - and we live in such a sick society that I saw just the other day that 37% of children have been reported to such agencies by the public for intervention.
I'm no fan of the RCC, but they operated in accordance with their age old principles which include understanding all sex outside of marriage as sinful but not insurmountable or unforgivable. The RCC also has a hierarchy of sins in which this is far from the highest, and for all its faults the RCC has been one of the few organizations that has attempted to curtail the worst excesses of what might be called an American empire (though I hesitate to call it that because though its center is in the United States it is fundamentally anti-American in character).
You may wish to pause and consider whose side you are really on, and why.
I read Hidden Valley Road by Robert Kolker about this family and it’s so good. Highly recommend. Not only discussed the family but also the history of our understanding of schizophrenia and efforts to treat it. Such an interesting case study into the genetic basis of schizophrenia.
Rotten mango did a good video regarding about the life of this family, she also mentioned the controversy about the documentary and how the family disliked how they portrayed the situation.
Trauma induced schizophrenia
My grandmother never really had a relationship with her father because he developed schizophrenia when she was young. This was around 1938-1940 and they truly had no idea how to help people. He would die quickly after being admitted to a mental hospital from a UTI that eventually poisoned him.
This is a little knowm corner of the disgnosis. It's about 80% genetic, and symptoms start at some point on their own in the 20s. If there's a large traumatic trigger, symptoms can start as alarmingly early as 13 or 14. It's a hard thing to pinpoint if your older loved ones are too ashamed to tell you it's in the family history
Worst part was that the second eldest brother, Jim, raped his own sister the eldest daughter. Then dying a few years later after denying it ever happened. And the mother telling her daughter it was normal.
Tragic. My aunt had it before she passed it is a terrible, terrible disease. She got it in her early 20s after my mothers family lost there mother and then there father. She actually was an identical twin and her sister didn’t get it. It truly terrifying. To lose yourself like that is incomprehensible. She was fine for a long time on medication but as she got older she stopped taking it which is a symptom in itself. She wasted away to skin and bones. She looked like a person in the holocaust.
I have a nephew who is the absolute worst case scenario when it comes to schizophrenia! The desperately wanting to help him but not being able to do shit about it is really rough!
I’m scared to watch since schizophrenia is in my family but I might need to
that’s actually so heartbreaking
I know not all priests are like this, but it's always a goddamn priest.
(1) We don't know that the priest did anything. There is speculation based on the fact that a priest was present at times, but that is not evidence.
(2) What _is_ evident is that the most likely cause was either a gene or a pathogen, not a person.
(3) The problem with looking for a scapegoat is that you can always find one.
(4) If we are talking about SA, priests are no more likely to commit it than other professionals doing similar work. In fact, they appear to be significantly less likely to do so than teachers.
This documentary was sooooo heartbreaking!!!!
I love your TH-cam Shorts and your podcast, have you ever thought of making storytelling videos like Bayley Sarian from Dark History? I feel it could be even more awesome with the pictures and stuff, maybe its me that I'm more of a visual person but anyway, I love your content.
Similar thing happened in my family with mental illnesses and psychical illnesses. I also have a big family. But one by one we all ended up with something. Doctors were confused. But it call came down to my mother's poor genes and her abuse.
Bipolar has a huge genetic component. As an example: my maternal grandmother’s has seven grandchildren, but five of us have Bipolar disorder (and one of the other two is suspected to have it as well).
I read the book and desperately want to watch this documentary as well. The book is great for anyone that wants to read it. It's called hidden valley road.
It was really sad. I watched it too. That poor Mom. She tried living as long as she could to take care of them.
Autism is often misdiagnosed as schizophrenia. They also co-occur a lot.
People can have schizophrenia and inside the spectrum
@@ANANG408Yes, they said it co-occurs a lot.
@@gray9606 thanks I didnt read that part😅
Thank you for mentioning gifted kids burnout syndrome. It seems to fit Sara perfectly and explains (but not excuses) a lot!
I watched it too and it was so incredibly sad. Very interesting though. Donald and Matthew are still alive and theres a trust you can donate to online to help them get out and do activities ❤ their sister Margaret is an angel
as a schizophrenic, this is fascinating, but hits home. God Bless!
It’s unsurprising that multiple siblings got the same disorder, since a lot of mental illnesses are genetic or have genetic predispositions , most likely both parents were carrying it in some way probably from their ancestors. I personally share all but 1 of my mother’s mental illnesses and we have quite a few , depression, anxiety, PTSD (that ones not genetic but it weird that it happened 3 generations in a row) and ADHD. She has bipolar which i don’t have and I have autism which she doesn’t have.
It is rather interesting, how some person has something; but maybe no one else in the family has the exact thing the first person does. In my family, my mom has ADHD; it has an 80% chance of being passed on to offspring. If my brother has ADHD, it wasn't obvious; he's severely autistic and behaves like a toddler. I have ADHD, and later was diagnosed with autism, depression and anxiety. My sister was not diagnosed with anything, but acknowledges her behavior has neurodivergent traits, similar to being on the spectrum. My dad was told by one of the doctors who diagnosed my brother that his (Dad) behavior was somewhat on the spectrum, obvious only to a trained professional. On my mom's side, one of my cousins has autism; the other has ADHD. My dad's brother has characteristics of ADHD; his daughter behaves as if she's a bit on the spectrum and was diagnosed with ADHD. My sister has observed that dad's mother has characteristics of anxiety; something she got from her mother, but she is quick to overanalyze a situation -- perhaps a bit on the spectrum, my sister thinks. What behaviors and conditions are we born with? Which ones are products of our upbringing? Do children accept the behavior of a neurodiverse parent as normality and imitate? I'm so curious about neurodiverse behavior in families
It's likely that they had all the precursors then as more and more siblings were affected the environment became more stressful and chaotic and started triggering it in the younger siblings. I saw a comment on here that mentioned that schizophrenia is more complicated than 1 gene and its more that there are a series of things including multiple genes that create a vulnerability that can then be triggered by stress. Because they were all siblings they all had similar vulnerabilities which were then triggered by the stress of the chaos of the household (which was no one's fault. If they had gone to an asylum they would have been badly abused. It was best for them to be at home with their family. It's just a very unfourtunate and sad situation)
It seems like their mind and body’s were so desperate to disconnect from the abuse, that their brains went haywire trying to erase or escape reality.
The minute you said “went on trips with the priest” my heart dropped
You have been well propagandized.
There is no reason to assume that this was caused by a person.
The problem with looking for a scapegoat is that one can always find one.
@@alanlight7740how are you doing today, you good?
I watched this. It was amazing, thought-provoking, amazingly uplifting, while tragic.
Back then anything that went wrong was the Mom's fault. I was told that it was believed my son's autism was my fault...but in the 90's they started questioning that theory.
The problem with looking for scapegoats is that one can always find one.
They used to blame the mother, now they blame a random man - preferably a priest.
I read the book, which is really a case history of the Galvin family and it's fascinating. I felt sorry for the mother and some of the children. Anyone who decides to have 12 children really ought to think carefully before doing so as the medical consequences may be overwhelming, as they were in this case.
It's crazy how many conditions have been blamed on moms. Not attentive enough, too attentive, didn't give enough consequences, too many consequences.... it's not even history this still happens. I recently had a school counselor try to blame my son's adhd on me, she wasn't sure what was going wrong but surely something was wrong at home to cause these behaviors that are very specifically linked to his already diagnosed (and confirmed by additional professionals) ADHD, and that meant it had to be on my parenting because my spouse had been stationed elsewhere for 4 years and couldn't be the one at fault. My spouse also happens to have ADHD but wasn't diagnosed until a couple of years before our child was. Thankfully the other school counselor has more experience with kids with ADHD and has been kind and helpful and doesn't blame unexpected medical conditions on the moms. I've also seen a group of people irl blaming a mother for her child having autism. Like what do you think she's doing feeding her child autism for breakfast? Ridiculous. You've got to take full responsibility for your child's negative behaviors, getting them therapies and services they need, helping them make and keep friends, helping them learn make better "expected" decisions... it takes up so much of your life to help this child you love and want the best for but oh, this condition you didn't expect is now also your fault.
Wanna know the worst part. Quite literally unless she got harmed or took drugs/alcohol while pregnant, it’s usually dad’s fault 70% of the time. Older men makes shlt sperm and can lead to kids having issues. And their stuff usually chose what’s what when an undeveloped human is being made. And last reason is that they’re (not all, just some) so egotistical that they can’t accept that they might be the problem or that their girl is better than them
Mom's are an emotional centre point. And maybe rather than putting the blame on mothers the responsibility falls on the men. That they provide an environment of thriving for their family part of which is to ensure that the mom is provided enough, secure enough, and given resources of support for her to be able to be nurturing for a growing family.
Adhd kids are extremely sensitive and pick up even the unspoken stresses of both parents and the family dynamics. I'm glad you found a skilled professional who is professional and not judgementaland will be able to teach you how to help your Neuro gifted child to thrive in a way unique to him or her ❤
The problem with looking for a scapegoat is that you can always find one.
It's a heart wrenching documentary for sure. My husband and I were just stunned.
Sounds like learned behavior as each sibling coming into the family starts exhibiting signs younger & younger.
I mean it could easily be that the stress of having older siblings with schizophrenia could be the trigger for younger kids
I saw it not long ago, and it's so upsetting that help.was not gotten sooner. There was far too much suffering and problems. So devastating! I felt especially bad for the girls!
My grandparents on my Dad's side had 4 kids. 3 of them were schizophrenic, including my father and one had substance abuse trouble likely from undiagnosed mental health issues. So far none of their kids exhibit schizophrenic traits, although other mental health issues are present. It is a terrifying illness and hard to grow up thinking you may lose your mind one day.
Thank you so much for recommending this documentary, went straight to watch it and it doesn't disappoint.
This is sooo tragic and scary, gotta protect the kids
Horrible situation for these children and then to be misunderstood… ugh.
My family member got it after a car accident as a teen. It's an awful terrible disease
Once you mentioned the church trip, i already knew what was going to be said. Poor boys💔
i read a book about this family for a school psych project. it was really good. it was called hidden valley roads. the subject matter was hard to get through and i don’t remember much of it. i can’t wait to see what happened to the family through a visual format, since that’s how i learn best.
I felt bad most of all for Mary. I wanna give her the biggest hug for being such a dope sister through and through.
I feel so sorry it breaks my heart. My dad was a schizophrenia. I am a schizo defective disorder. There’s a slight difference, but it is hereditary.😢
My firstborn son had developed symptoms of schizophrenia in the years leading up to his death when he was just 26 years old, so I pay attention whenever i come across things about schizophrenia. The most surprising thing I've learned is that not one blind person has ever been diagnosed with schizophrenia.
Y’all haven’t watched this show, it’s really in depth and explains so much. It was interesting to watch and I recommend it. I feel so bad for this family and especially the youngest child, she didn’t deserve that treatment growing up.
This made me feel sad and unwell. These poor boys 😢
The book written about this family is so good.
What's the book called
The one by Robert kolker?
@@adenzewdu3564 Hidden Valley Road
@@hy.a.cinthh yes, that one
Yes, there are multiple genes that may increase the risk of developing schizophrenia, but no single gene is thought to be responsible:
C4: Located on chromosome 6, this gene is known to play a role in immunity and is the strongest known genetic risk for schizophrenia.
SRRM2: A previously unknown gene linked to schizophrenia.
AKAP11: A risk gene for both schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.
PCLO: A gene that carries risk for both schizophrenia and autism.
GRIN2A: Also important in epilepsy and neurodevelopmental disorders.
3q29 deletion: Cuts 21 specific genes and raises your risk by 40 times.
22q11 deletion: Raises your risk by about 30 times.
One of them didn't even show any symptoms. They just didn't like he was a hippie 😂
This story is sooooo good!
People in authority love to blame the mothers for EVERYTHING!! I’ve had teachers stare me down while my husband sat right next to me! Apparently it was MY fault our youngest son was having trouble learning in 2nd grade!! Every time he had an asthma attack… that was MY fault as well!!
How many want to bet it was the priest in this case??
When there is overwhelming evidence that genetics or a pathogen is the cause of most cases of schizophrenia, why do you presume a _person_ caused it?
The problem with looking for a scapegoat is that one can always find one. After having been the scapegoat I would hope that you would understand this principle better than most.
@@alanlight7740 I’m not saying schizophrenia isn’t genetic. But, it could have come from the father’s side. It may have laid dormant until they were “touched” by the priest… and then made itself known. My issue is… everyone LOVES to blame the mother for everything that goes wrong with their children!! Decades ago when they couldn’t check for a low sperm count… the wife was blamed for not getting pregnant. Etc etc etc. . Just like in this story, the mother is automatically responsible. That was my point.
@@KimSearch865 - I agree. My point was simply that automatically blaming a man is not any improvement.
@@alanlight7740 It was brought up that the family believed the priest did something to the boys. My point was, that abuse most likely set off their psychosis. Of course we don’t know for sure. I’m just tired of the mother always being blamed first and foremost.
@@KimSearch865 - With SIX boys presumably affected, one would think that at least one of them would have SAID something. They became schizophrenic, not mute.
Which means I severely discount "the family believed". Either they had evidence which they refused to present, or they have no evidence.
I do appreciate that you are tired of mothers being blamed for things beyond their control, but the issue is much larger than that. You can try to cut off the branches of this poisonous human tendency to seek scapegoats, or you can strike at the root.
Incredible documentary! It explains the genetic predisposition for schizophrenia wonderfully as well as the nurture/environmental part of it.
I felt so empty after finishing this. So truly sad.
Of course of all things possible... they blame the mom????
There is unfortunately a human tendency to look for scapegoats, and the problem with looking for scapegoats is that you can always find one.
Just look at this video and the comments section: many people reject the idea that the mother was the cause only to blame the priest despite a lack of evidence that he did anything wrong - and despite the strong evidence for a genetic or pathogenic cause.
@@alanlight7740 Stop spamming everyone you're so annoying
Immediately called that it was some horrible creep probably involved. Child abuse is an epidemic and it wrecks so many lives. 😢
They do not seem to have any evidence that a creep was involved, only speculation.
It is a circular argument: this condition occurred, and although there is firm evidence of genetic and pathogenic causes for this condition we assume a creep must have been the cause. We further assume that priests are likely to be creeps although the best evidence we have is that they are less likely than average, and a priest was present at times; ergo the priest must have been a creep and caused this condition that is usually the result of genetics or a pathogen.
The problem with looking for a scapegoat is that one can always find one.
@@alanlight7740I hope this helped you feel better about the speculation somehow? But it’s pretty factual that child abuse of this nature has been and is currently an absolute epidemic and triggers massive states of mental and emotional decline in the victims - it makes sense.
@@alanlight7740 additionally, the creep wasn’t the cause of the condition but as is common in many cases where a major mental illness is present, abuse and trauma certainly can and often will trigger the illness in those already predisposed. It’s not a problem and it’s noncontroversial to make that connection and to want creeps and abusers to be held accountable for their part in irreparably damaging another person in this way.
@@NierielHoneybee - I've seen some of the "evidence" you speak of, and it is underwhelming.
It all starts with the presumption that "child abuse of this nature" causes irreparable life long harm, and works backwards from there.
There has been a little solid research on the subject that avoids this obvious trap, and it has consistently gotten very different results.
I fear that by focusing on the wrong target we are delaying solutions and even making things worse via the nocebo effect.
@@alanlight7740you are honestly incredibly sus or in denial to be pushing against the very obvious and clear cause and effect that abuse will cause irreparable damage and can very much lead to triggering major mental and/or physical illness in victims. Putting effort into getting rid of one trigger of those predisposed to these problems is not an issue. The problem may start as something genetic and pathogenic, but if it could just stay dormant without the body being forced into horrible states of fight or flight or a singular horrible enough instance due to abusive, dangerous people, it would be worth making sure the abuse doesn’t fucking happen and making the connection that it would make things a million times worse.
I also want to mention here - not only was Schizophrenia often a misdiagnosis, the term “childhood schizophrenia” was actually what was used prior to us realizing that Autism is a thing. True schizophrenia in childhood is exceedingly rare. So, there’s a good chance some of the younger boys were actually autistic, not schizophrenic. On that note - schizophrenia and autism could have some relation to each other genetically, in addition to Bipolar disorder. The jury’s still out if this is in fact the case or not, though.
The most tragic thing was that one of the brothers was graping the daughter when she went to visit him when he was older. She'd eventually decide that it was better than being home with the other schizophrenic brothers raging every day. She told the Mom and she did nothing. Yeah, that was tragic. I swear it's always the super religious families.
Of course the doctors thought a woman was to blame
I watched the whole documentary and wow!!!! Wow, wow, WOW!!!!! It's deep AF!!!
What can i watch this on???? And do you have an episode of this on your podcast?!?!!?
It’s on Max! And I don’t yet!
@@heartstartspounding oooooh okay thank you!! I can't wait for more episodes!
Max is not available where I am. Could you do an episode. Looks really interesting. I am a healer. There is a demonic component to this illness @heartstartspounding
This documentary was SO WELL DONE
And so interesting. 5 stars. ⭐️
Of course they thought it was the woman’s fault cuz when men can’t figure shit out it’s her fault.
That priest destroyed the entier family...