just stop playing into the meta trash, you think its required until you develop your own pool and if the game isnt trash it will allow for players to find their own workable if not better than meta char/play/comps
There's no such thing as a 'latest meta' because it constantly changes. You either adapt, or you lose. That's literally life, which is not a 'meta game'.
The mentality shift of "I want to have fun and relax" to "I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was!" It's the biggest reason I shifted from multiplayer to singleplayer.
@@dn9156 even on the off chance that they're genuinely skilled, they only feel good if there's someone who loses against them. Singleplayer try-hards at least have a sense of accomplishment for a bit, but the fact that neither single or multiplayer try-hards can just enjoy a game for what it is is the most telling thing
my buddies got me to buy helldivers 2 and they were like 4 hours in and i was like 2 hours in. He's already sending me endgame meta youtube videos like bruh i've only played 2 hours ffs.
Yeah 4-5 years ago, I'd pretty much all but given up on MP gaming, on the rare opportunity I was able to get "the boys" all coordinated for a few hours that no one is working, taking care of their kids or doing chores, we'd try to play something like CSGO and just get dominated by 12 year olds that have infinitely more freetime, to the point it's just not fun. So I switched almost exclusively to SP games for years. The only recent exception has been Helldivers 2, because I'm not competing "against" the other players, and my friends and family seem way more encouraged to make time when the stakes are low and getting dunked on by teenagers isn't a virtual certainty.
“People are so focused on finishing the game that they don’t play it.” - Fantastic quote man. I think this cut through to the core shift we’ve seen in people’s enjoyment of games.
Man i really badly struggle with exact that... i start grinding a game an unhealthy amount until i achieved whatever i set myself out to. During the time i start to not enjoy it very quickly, and after i finish the task, i don't touch the game anymore and move on to the next game..
@@coldfries8976 I do this with games in a similar way. I start playing and love it and my brain goes into lets do it all!!!!. I have stopped this by playing then. Switching games every couple of weeks then going back again, it's helped me finish games and enjoy the whole playthrough
This is why i play single player RPG's. I love just losing myself in the world and getting lost in exploration, without having to worry about anything or anyone.
I get that. For me I rather just read a good book. Nothing against RPGs but I can finish a good book in a couple days and RPGs can be a complete life sink for weeks/months single player or not and that's a lot of time missed on other things. Then again I also played Chrono Trigger back in the mid 90's and RPGs never came close haha
@@jacobryanjosephmorrison Yeah. I saw friends play that game. End of the day gaming gets you nowhere in life but it's a hobby and for me I rather play some old school arcade style games as the hobby or puzzle games like Tetris in short bursts over dedicating chunks of life to it.
@@jacobryanjosephmorrison Gaming went full corporate after the 6th generation of gaming and once the smaller Japanese teams that worked on games died out. Also and it's not sexist but I'll be called a sexist once women got more involved with gaming they found ways to get Simps to bow to them more. I knew gamer girls back in the 90's but at the arcades in NYC no one gave a fuck who you were. It was about winning. Now I see guys simping for women in games almost like it's only fans. I tried WoW classic for a bit and every guild had a purple hair comic/tattoo geek that would use her cat anime style tone in discord and simps came running. I ain't got time for that shit.
It wasn't just streamers. It's online gaming in general. It's all about meta, optimizing, builds, elo, leaderboards, competition, etc. The internet ruined the concept of just having fun and enjoying a gaming experience.
just eased the accsess to information. If you choose to play a competitive game instead of a coop or pve oriented one there will always be people who wanna win more than you . They will research the shit out of it . Same goes for chess. If you choose a game with a leaderbord, dont be suprised someone is tryharding . You can always just accept being casual in a competitive game , thats where most of the playerbase is anyway.
Old COD lobbies were so good, I could play for 5 hours straight with the same 10 people. It made for great social experiences. Now being forced to quit from a lobby and potentially never see those people again, or weeks from then when you forgot who they are.
What was the point of such a change in all online games? Now it makes it pointless to play them, I feel more lonely than when I play a single-player game.
@@stanislavkimov2779 you can make your own lobbies and invite people to game , happens all the time. Every game has an invite feature and if it doesnt your steam does You sure youre playing games ? Sounds like youre just busy listening to your own voice Yes old lobbies were sooooooo good always playing with the same 10 ppl because everyone else is better than you so there is no point looking for other lobby especially in games like cs , quake and so on...good luck finding a lobby you dont need 2yrs of practice to be able to hang with. Talk about bs nostalgia trips
@@Jaime_Protein_Cannister thing is, you must find these people outside the game and bring them there. In game you only find randoms that are different every time.
@@stanislavkimov2779 you can invite both friends and randoms , almost every game that is online has an online id system and it has been ther for the past 10 yrs or so yrs. In fact you steam shows your what your friends are playing , just message them... jesus I get invited by randoms all the time and invited to discords and so on , ive gone trough 10 or so groups of online only friends in the past 5yrs ... why do you blame the tools if you dont use them
@@Jaime_Protein_Cannister They're talking about making friends, not sticking to friends they already have. Also back then many people didn't play video games, let alone competitive ones, so there was a good chance that none of a gamer's friends played the same games. I can't tell if you're trolling or actually low-iq, but on average most people have a similar level of skill, so no, he probably didn't choose to play w/ the same people due to a lack of skill. You can deny all you want but matchmaking did kill the old "choose-your-server/lobby/room" experience, at least in the AAA world.
This is exactly why PvE coop games like Palworld and Helldivers 2 are popping off. They break the gap between the casual and competitive players and give room to everyone
yeaaaaah...it has always been abt being the best and ppl will do anything to get there...not sure how ppl dont get it and cry abt it lol...sweats have always been around lol
@@CommentThink So then tell the sweats to stop bitching about having to be sweaty in games, could you? The fact is, that while yes, it's always been about competition, it has recently reached a boiling point. 10 years ago you didn't have people saying skill based matchmaking literally made their ping worse or some other bullshit. 10 years ago people were ok with a competitive game being sweaty. Now if someone plays a round of CoD and only comes out with a 1 k/d they act like it's the end of the world and clearly the game is doing something to prevent them from being as good as they think they are. This bitching bout having to try is most definitely a recent development in the last 5 or so years
What makes things worse is the toxic mentality the sweats have. It's no longer about winning, but how bad you can insult or humiliate your opponent or how mad you can make someone. Just look at the number of videos that pop up with they keywords Rage quit. Making other people not want to play is 100% bad for whatever the game is.
game design made sweats become more toxic. Back in the day you'd run it straight with no plan but a direction. Nowadays everyone has a role and when you dont fulfil it, you bring the whole team down.
I know people that burned themselves out in Helldivers and found the game boring after a couple hours because instead of just playing the game and having fun with friends... they had to look up the "most optimal exp farms", "fastest resource farms" etc. You gain nothing from rushing to the end as fast as possible and they ruined the game for themselves by doing so.
meanwhile, farming in games like EDF or Borderlands is fun because it's set into the core game loop. I need to collect all the armor crates, because the Hectors kick my ass and even 10 more armor can help me survive another hit.
those kind of people say the same thing about genshin. as soon as a new update drops, theylle be looking up farm routes, chest locations, etc, and beat it all in 2 or 3 days then precede to complain that the game has no content. like no shit dude
@@TheWhiteDragonEmperor because the game has no content… it’s the same fucking boring end game loop that amounts to nothing because spiral abyss is east and boring as shit to do.
"If you have fun and are enjoying it, you've already won." That is a GOLDEN take right there. That's the whole point of playing video games. Thank you for putting it so succinctly, my dude.
Lol as someone who works about 70 hours a week. I don't enjoy multiplayer games anymore because I don't have time to try and get decent at any game. So I just stick to single player games
So true. Season passes need you to play minimum 10 hours per week. Plus skill gap, yes. I play Left 4 dead sometimes - 4 players against AI, no season pass, no no-life-nerds. And I play some single player games, of course. But multiplayer is dead for me.
Honestly? Yeah. Not just streamers but social media in general, feels like everyone is sweaty nowadays because doing well or having a cracked account is a status symbol. Back in the day you could only show off to a handful of nerds in your friend group, but now you can show off to hundreds or potentially thousands of people depending on the platform.
Yup, when I got back to LOL for a two years period, I was amazed by the level of toxicity players had on playing the game as if their lives depended on it. I tried my best to talk about enjoyment in game (as the name suggest: game) but yeah, for many of these people, it was either hardcore escapism, a way of proving themselves they're worth something or hardcore gridding in hope of getting a job in the field which would be way better than any bs job this world has to offer.
Social media also exposes people to a constant stream of the top players showing off to them. It's hard to just be happy with your own meager results while being showered in reminders of what those at the top can achieve.
I think the most fun part of a multi-player game is like the first tens of hours between friends when you all have started at the same time. It's what I missed about local multi-player games that don't exsits anymore.
Ye, and I don't think this experience is exclusive to videogames. Any sport or activity irl you play with friends feels good and casual.....but, you start playing against people outside of your friends and suddenly it's a real competition. Same as going to an arcade, whether it's videogames, bowling, air hockey etc.
this is exactly what i absolutely loved about Destiny when it first launched. it was such an amazing time to be at the very beginning of what would be an amazing franchise for the next 5yrs.. my best friend and i that met on mw2 reunited after not playing together for a year and damn.. it was so fun grinding strikes and playing crucible back then
An overarching point that I think can be taken from this is that this situation isn’t just happening in gaming. It’s happening in life. Everything is becoming hyper competitive, and people are willing to forgo playing life for the fun and connection between one another for the egoic pursuit of being the best and winning at the expense of others. I do wonder if this is a direct consequence of all our online social platforms and its effect on society.
Yep, it's like social online platforms have amplified competition for place in social hierarchy. And being better than others at something gives you more points.
u all wrong. its cause most people are ugly and can therefore not get a girlfriend so they think i just have to reach this or that and i can get it. but they dont realize they ugly anyway lmao.
Streamers ruin gaming when the majority of people just copy a streamer's gamestyle so you face 80% of the same builds or playstyles. That is my only major gripe with streaming popularity. Otherwise, the skill gap is about the same in my experience.
Yeah and this happened like years before Fortnite. I remember seeing the change in league when it first came out. And it became more and more toxic because of it.
Gaming has definitely gotten a lot more competitive or "tryhard" over time, though. I think Twitch and Esports popularity has pushed that along since a lot of people want to be pro or "famous" gamers/streamers and I feel that games definitely used to be a lot more about just playing them when I was a lot younger. You always had that competitive community there, but it feels like that is the majority of players these days. There's also a lot more information online about games that is easy to find, especially with TH-cam being what it is and tons of websites dedicated to theorycrafting, builds, or whatever else and that easy access to information will only bring the average skill level up. When I started playing WoW as a kid, I pretty much remember thottbot and that was about it. If you've played WoW since the start, I think you can see a clear evolution of how people used to play games and the direction it headed in afterwards, because it didn't just apply to WoW, but to games as a whole. I might seem like some old boomer ranting, but I've also been through that phase when I was sweating WoW PvP every day with no job back in Cata until BFA so I understand it.
Uh you do know the majority of people don't watch streamers right? Also, strategy guides were a thing way before streaming was really that popular. The reason why you see the same builds, is usually because that's the most powerful. What, you think the majority of people are going to intentionally handicap themselves just so you have a different opponent to fight? No. Obviously streamers might have an impact in making a certain build more popular, but that's not really because of the streamers, it's because players use that build and then other players get rekt by it, so then those players use that build and so on. Same goes with strategies, let's say a streamer finds a super op spot to camp in tarkov. Well players will copy that, and then other players are going to copy them. If you take streamers completely out of the occasion it will still happen because of strategy guides, and if you take strategy guides out of the occasion it will still happen just a bit slower because players can only find it out from other players or their friends. And this is all assuming the person doesn't find out about it themselves, because almost every person who played elden ring instantly realized how powerful bleed, dex, faith, and magic are, it didn't take streamers or strategy guides it's just obvious, unless the player didn't interact with those builds at all.
people meta copy pasting isn't the problem. even meta builds have their weak points, and can be exploited. especially if enough people adopt an anti-meta build/style/etc. the problem is when the gap between all possible meta potentials is so great that anti-meta builds cannot balance the scale. that^ is when competitive integrity is diminished. i've lived through enough games/genres over years and been part of meta shifts (caused like 2...which is nothing), to know copying meta builds isn't the problem at the core. because if meta builds have the potential to be checked, players can hold the potential to balance the "meta". there's a huge responsibility on the rule makers (devs/studios) to be careful when balancing mechanics/data and/or introducing new variables into a game (assuming its competitive).
The reason games like WoW Classic wasn't as fun as it was when it released is the fact there are all kinds of step by step guides, addons, and videos all over the internet about it before it was even re-released. What's the fun in it when there is a few meta builds and you're trash if you don't follow one of those builds.
That and if you don’t follow the meta, you’re trash and consider uninstalling and good luck getting into guilds that are gate kept by try hards going for dps meters and congratulations player base, you played yourself
Wow was always this way since 2005 if you wanted to push mc and beyond. Eg. If you wanted to Seal of wisdom 1h as paladin, or literally anything besides cleansebot from the back it meant insta-ban. Pure balls.
Just dont use it and it will be fun for you. This is simple. I didnt use any guid and i was so bad but i had a very good time. I use guides in retail (sometimes) if im trying t olearn something faster but thats all.
@@troybilkoI'm one of the players who goes for min-maxing dps and such, but never supported trying to impose it on anyone else. I enjoy playing min-max in games like WoW, but only for myself, because I like to learn classes/weapon classes/whatever it is in games to their fullest. Only ever looked for fun guilds that were competent enough to kill bosses and willing to learn how to. Ran into that elitism in SoD and it was frustrating/sad to see how crazy people were about nonfunctional gearscore addons, having BiS, etc. when the last several weeks was just everyone summoning Yetis to clear the raids for themselves in P1. xD
@@Sunless1337 ruined my wow classic experience. It just snowballed out of control with all the bots farming the materials you would need to keep up with the parses and from there, the toxic player base was too much. Classic became a 4/10 experience because the majority of the player base bought into the meta. I had guild mates telling me how good bots were for the market
This is what happened with Street Fighter 2 in the arcades in the early 90s. Lots of people wanted to try it at first, but the top 5% or 10% of players played it so much and got so good at it, new players stopped even trying to play because they'd hate to wait in line to play just to lose in 10 seconds to the pro that just knew all the combos and could end you in 3 moves without you getting a hit in.
Also while Asmongold is right about meta being meta? No. In order to break the mold you have to break the meta. It's why guys like Daigo Umihara is just a monster in Street Fighter. Perfect Meta Player who knows how to break the Meta just to win the match. One mistake is all that's needed in Street Fighter. Well for competitive.
Yeah, I used to be an arcade rat back in the day playing SF2, Samurai Showdown and Soul Calibur and it was sad to see top players just sit on a machine destroying anyone and everyone that tried to play against them for literally hours on end and often even being toxic about it. I used to as a rule of thumb, throw the first game and give the new player tips if it was obvious they weren't already a master at the game. The worst was when it was a little kid. It costs money so you can't keep throwing the match but it always felt kinda wrong basically taking that kids quarter. It meant if you weren't already good at the popular fight games you would never get a chance to learn and get good because there was always a top player sitting on his throne destroying any newcomers in seconds. Also, even though I was one of the best players at the local arcade, it still sucked playing that other top kid because he always played freakin' Ken or Ryu since they were the meta back then. Where as I liked to rotate through most of the roster, he always picked Ken or Ryu every single time. (They had essentially the same move set back then.) So in the end it would inevitably be me fighting that same guy and having to pick Guile or another top meta character just so I didn't get wrecked. Even when you are one of the best players in your little pond you still get stuck playing the freakin' meta. Even back in the day.
The main issue with ranked mode games is that they want to incentivise grinding and just playing the game more. This is a way they can sell more skins afterall... The result is that smurfs can hang out forever in low ranks just by throwing occasionally.
what kind of games do you play where you think thats the case? and even if, most games have performance based rating so literally just play better and it doesnt matter if you have smurfs in a lot of your games
@@Alex-h3c4j It's not the smurfs smurfing. It's the smurfs actively throwing to maintain that low rank. At the absolute worst of the worst bottom barrel newest of the new player level of matchmaking... most games actively try to push people out of that rank. It's supposed to just be there for a few games so people can figure out basic mechanics of what's going on. "Let's just play a game and see if we can pick this up.". The bottom rank is supposed to be for that. People have to actively throw to stay there, they have to tank their account hard. They do it to offset the video clipshow of them getting 100kills in a single match when they are playing against people at that level. For that one performance and stay at that rank they have to throw multiple games ruining things for everyone. But that's the worst lowest rank. In general ranking ladders are shaped like bell curves. If a game has 5 then ranks 3 is going to have the largest population of people. Games that report population ranks show this. The rank right in the middle is always the biggest. So if a rank 5 player wants to smurf on rank 3s hard they're going to have the same problem I just explained. To win that hard every now and again to show how awesome they are for the content they have to throw a couple games too. It's not as bad for the number they have to throw for the bottom rank 1. But they still have to actively play badly in 2-3 games for that performance and not get promoted out of rank 3. And if you play a game enough you can tell. Oddly, something similar happens at the absolute top end of competitive games. An example of that is LoL. Which I haven't played in years but it was in the gaming news. If someone wants rank 1 in Challenger... which is the highest level of play... the only way to get there is Win Trading. Players conspire to be on opposite teams for a match and then one of them actively plays badly on purpose to boost the win rate of the other player. How bad is it? Last year the top spot on every single server was a known Win Trader... which is why it was in the news. Anyone in the top 10 for a region got there because someone else actively sandbagged. Games are more likely to be ruined by sandbaggers actively trying to lose than smurfs. At the low or the high end.
Thats human nature , accept the fact that most players are willing to put in more effort and even more so kids specifically are obsessed with games and have the time to do so. Without ranked you will never find a fair game , because almost everyone else is interested in gaming more than you If youre playing for fun result of the game shouldnt matter Loosing is fun , take rimworld as an example
This is exactly why Halo 2 & 3 ranking system of 1 - 50 is Goated. It separated the casual players/noobs and the competitive/experienced players. It was perfect.
Still think it wasn't incredibly difficult to get 50 in Halo. The skill ceiling has definitely increased to unthinkable levels. With Onxy ratings in Infinite really coming down to ping difference. It's unbearable and caused me to stop playing ranked in Halo (The only game I've ever enjoyed rank on)
@DPH_Psychosis those bloody halo 2 cheaters it was disgusting loading into a game stuck in some object and getting killed and losing my 40 rank over and over **** those guys
@DPH_Psychosis I managed to get comet rank for a fleeting moment, then quickly deranked back down lol. Win 20 games in a row, lose one and rank down, but it was a perfect ranking system. Back in my gaming prime haha. I feel like I'm worse at video games in my older age as well. I was 16-17 for halo 2 I'm 36 now, feels bad haha.
I’m 43, I’m a Dad, and I totally understand your ego point. I loved Dave the Diver last year. Pick it up, play, walk away. Any survivors games. Gold to me.
Yea except in destiny 2 you have to kill them to get heavy ammo just to use a rocket launcher… and you get 1 single rocket. If you’re lucky you’ll hit someone before you die… I love the game, but cannot play PvP.. it’s just stupid. The PvE is incredible though
On the topic of sbmm, I hate when games force your entire friend group to play at the highest player's level. You end up accidentally bringing your 3 bronze buddies into matches against 6 platinums, so your group always gets curb stomped....
I mean, this has been part of the online gaming space for ages. Are we purposely forgetting how games have been this whole time or are people really just getting dumber?
The exact reason I stopped the competitive games, and got into Souls-like games. Both the sectors provide challenges. But beating the challenge in those offline games feels way better than in PvP.
Exactly, for me beating a boss in a soulslike actually feels rewarding and I know I got better, beating a sweaty player in an online game just feels exhausting.
@@TheMachine3165 beating a boss that was designed to be beaten < beating a player Stop pretending and lying to yourselves. The reason you guys choose SP games over MP pvp is purely skill issue.
While they're a lot of fun in the short term, the multiplayer stuff is a bit soulless, you, mostly, either win 30 matches in a row or you lose and get annoyed. Wining just becomes meaningless and there's only a reaction when you lose.
It's not just online. TH-camrs have had a massive impact on some games. They are playing a game for a living 12 to 16 hrs a day and are obviously far better than the rest of the people playing that game. They then complain that the game is too easy and needs to be made more difficult, which affects the average gamer who ironically had paid for the game unlike the stranger or upriver who had probably been gifted the code/game from the publisher.
Prime example: Destiny 2. Streamers have destroyed that game and now Bungie is circling the drain all the while the streamers who rely on said game for their financial livelihood are trying to deflect blame, even going as far as blaming the casual players. Which is why they really dislike games like Palworld, and Helldivers 2.
I've also seen the reverse. Terrible players complaining about games being too hard and then the game is made to be baby difficulty. The solution is have a party mode and a serious mode.
@@cordovalark5295Been saying this for years, kept saying it after I came back for lightfall and then left right after. The amount of times I have seen videos/stream from aztec and the like blaming the majority player base is ridiculous.
I have pretty much given up on PvP games. I dont have a lot of time to play and i dont want to spend that time being destroyed by people with a lot more time
@@TheMeanArenaSouls games are fun sweaty. Not easy but it's not like multiplayer sweat, because the game doesn't get harder if you're not playing. Take a month off you're not years behind.
@@sethiddings7293I feel like that isn’t a great argument. Most games don’t have a massive dedicated player base solely playing that game. At most it might be like 1/4th of the player base is dedicated to the game. Most of the other players are like you and me. Dropping out for a while and revisiting, playing in limited time, playing multiple games at once, etc. I would be curious if you are a console player playing cross platform games? I feel like this was one big realization once I swapped to PC was how much better the floor of my gameplay became. It didn’t feel like I was constantly competing with people who held a significant advantage over me. Keyboard and mouse at least made it feel like the playing field was more level.
I dont understand the idea behind that thinking. If you play ranked or even normal games in e.g. Valorant, League, Dota and so on you will always get matched against other players of similar skill level. Sure sometimes an annoying smurf will be in there, but honestly they existed way before twitch became really big and generally speaking the matchmaking does work decently well, so if you get destroyed you should be deranking into some area where you win/lose around 50% of your games. Of course these things dont apply to all games equally well like for Battle Arenas and so on its hard to have good matchmaking, but generally speaking for most big PvP games they work decent. So yeah I feel like you should likely be matched against the majority of humans who are just relatively casual players as well, thus you shouldnt really get destroyed, again broadly speaking about big popular games.
It's just not that fun playing with people I don't know. I might as well be playing against bots. I don't get anything out of it except it raises the competition, but it's not really all that fun.
I love touching on the fact that most players of games arent even aware of actually how good the best are. As someone who enjoys fighting games and playing to get better, regardless of winning or losing, its tryly humbling to watch a top player do something you didnt know was possible, and you cant even begin to comprehend how one learns it, let alone pulls it off in a match against another top player
From the perspective of me: Diablo 2 player. People, generally, are hyperfocused on 'result' of the game, instead of enjoying the experience. People rush through 99% of the content to 'farm' stuff to ... i don't know - to rush through again?
oh yeah..that's so true! I have often had this discussion too. For me it's still (after 30 years of gaming) about the experience IN THE games, not about achieving any goal. My goal is to experience not to achieve anything!
Yup single player games are not exempt. When D3 launched players requested/demanded that inferno get nerfed, bc I guess they were losing sleep over not 100% it and moving on with their lives. Killing Diablo 3 times wasn't enough. It's never enough.
Lol yeah, back in 04 I was 14 and D2LOD was my first experience with that. People rushing the game then running Baal constantly, after that repeatedly running the countess or Mephisto or the necromancer. But that was nothing, because like half a year after getting into D2 online, I went to high school and became friends with competitive gamers with SS Brawl. I didn't realize people where that good at games. So right when online gaming blew up, I was all about single player games, mainly Morrowind att.
One friend, true Diablo fan quit Diablo 3 on the spot when he saw the auction house's effects. Moved to other similar games, but in general wrote Blizzard off. The other friend made money off the auction house to buy a new pc.
I'm going to show my age here, but this isn't new at all. I used to play cs 1.3-1.6 with friends and the guys we ran into were all league players who were sweaty. If we ran into people who couldn't bhop all over the map and quickscope accurately and if they didn't know all the proper smokes and pop flashes etc. they stood no chance. If anyone is old like me you'll remember cal, the ranks in cal for teams were open/intermediate/main/premier/invite. Even the decent cal-o teams would have mandatory practice 5+ days a week. This was nearly 20 years ago at this point. Players have been sweaty forever, thinking fortnite started it is because you were at the right age at that time and you think everyone was bad before then, and you are wrong.
Very true. People that play games based on how an over exaggerated streamer and then wonder why they aren't having fun or aren't as good... It's like copying someone's homework. Learn nothing and doesn't prep you.
I remember giving up on competitive cs after loosing a local tournament to a clan that had custom keyboards/shirts/cap and mouses 😂 Our strat was crappy and all but i remember me and guys going "yeah f this lol i prefer enjoying the game than doing tournaments and becoming like those guys" 😂😂 its been a while maybe 20yrs but it was such an eye opener
yeah bro, cs was a sweatfest as well back then, first time i heard about clans and going pro in an e-sport. Also don't forget Warcraft 3 and Starcraft. There's a reason LoL came from a Warcraft Mod.
Hah this is accurate. I was a hardcore sweat in Quake 2 back in the day, still play GTA and love hunting griefers. There's just more people online nowadays and it's more accessible, used be that you couldn't even play MP games competitively unless you had access to a T1 line, which I had at work back in '98
This is why I’m excited for single player games. I’ll play war zone here and their but with all the cheating and try hards I never want to play an online multiplayer game
The problem with warzone is that they sell the bullshit multiplayer every year and they made it in a way that you need to grind the multi for weapon attachments because there is soo big gap between the ground loot and the loadout weapons.
@@jaquesesmiley5465Yes you are the problem. People who complain about tryhards are man children or losers irl. They treat gaming as a form of escapism and want to at least be a winner in a virtual world, since they aren’t a winner in the real world. So when they’re getting sh*t on by someone better than them, they don’t get their dopamine hit and they get angry and frustrated. Calling the better person a cheater whether or not they’re cheating, or a tryhard
@@Beanskiiii oh I guess your right then. Sorry we don’t agree what perceive as fun. Atleast I don’t waste my time on a game that isn’t fun to me. So again I’m not the problem you might be.
People who are good at games get angry at skill based matchmaking because what they do to casuals starts happening to them. They make content all day about sh**ing on people because they are so competitive, but the moment the game actually becomes a real competition they don't like it anymore.
Bro, I lived this exact thing recently. My brother plays cod with some streamers, finally convinced them to try hell let loose. The first match we were all in a squad, took a couple checkpoints, everything going well, streamers were enjoying themselves. Then the cod mindset kicked in and they started charging choke points alone, ignoring squad orders, trying to snipe while running around, blind as bats because they can't function without a minimap or player markers then promptly started talking unending crap about the game. It was all good and awesome when things went well but the second it got hard and they couldn't see around corners without actually leaning around them or snipe and run like Rambo it got ugly really fast. It's crazy how reliant modern gamers are to things like enemy markers and minimaps to he point they literally can't function without them. Not all of us obviously but a staggering amount.
Oh yes. This is what happened to a lot of OW comp. OW is fundamentally a Moba where spaces is the king. Create space, take space, defend space. KDA, damage, doesn't really matter. The better team will win. That is why OW becomes big in the first places, because casual can have fun. Now in OW2, they want to make OW more of a death match where kills is the one that matters. Not teamwork, not good team coordination. Kills. If they want a game where skill and kills trumps everything, why not play Quake Champions? Oh yes, because they're not good enough.
Sorry but thats not the Point with SBMM. Either you play public or you play competetive - but not both. Public should not include SBMM. Thats what ranked is for. End.
@@princeofgreece9054 yea thats the reason i stopped playing r6 i think there is sbmm but there are still sweats that run out and spawn peak so i havent played it since it isnt fun that way. I legit try to get out of spawn and just fucking die. now i have to wait 3 min to play another round.
I was playing Sea of Thieves and ran into a ship that had a younger kid on it. He kept asking if we were doing some 24-hour challenge, or some other challenge and we kept trying to tell him we're just...playing the game? I'm definitely one of those busy adults that just likes to enjoy a fun game. I love a select few pvp games but I also find it really intimidating. When I run into friendly people it's great, but I'm not a fan of that 'gotta beat everyone' guy energy.
@@iiPotatoes Maybe get some social skills fam. That's awkward as fuck. Really unsure how you got THAT out of that post. It was pretty mundane mentioning how some people are confused that other people like to just play the game and dink around. It's really not rocket science. Guess that's a difficult concept for some people, so much it makes their teenage-college kid brain go full angst.
@@davidmoak1219 the kid was looking for an excuse to connect , being in on the same challange makes you alike/relatable. 24h challange in itself is irrelevant Unironically the "Them kids and them 4rtnite dances" take Stop being old and out of touch
@@DrPlonk I took it as the kid was doing a challenge and was asking if this dude was doing so as well. However it is still implied that the kid asking that is doing something wrong.
@@JimmyPoopsock no. Battle pass is pay to grind. I quite RDR2 online because of missing out on something. Technically it's was a reason for me to stay.
Personally i like youtube lets plays more than streaming because it allows me to see a game i cant at the moment afford. And then ill buy it on sale 2 years later (average) when i forget most of the lets play so its at least somewhat fresh. However what ive noticed is streamers will all jump on the game of the day, then its a flash in the pan moment, there is barely a variety in content or other games , and then Corpos see that. And make 50 other garbage games that are emulating that flash in the pan moment of prior games . Then more and more crap gets made .
Oh, man. I fully agree with you. I've noticed that lately, I try not to watch any streams, guides, etc., at all, especially reviews. That's just another evil. I just understood that no one can suggest to me what I should play. After I finally understood it, oh boy... There are actually SO MANY different games that I really like. Now, all that I watch are let's plays. That's it. Nothing more. I play a game myself, and then I watch a let's play, to see what I missed, or how another person solves different problems I encounter through the walkthrough. The last game that I discovered for myself in that way is 7 Days to Die. The game was released 10 years ago. And everyone who I knew said that this game is garbage, even recently. But I tried it myself and hoooolyyy. I'm obsessed with it right now.
About 20:00: Absolutely THIS is the reason why "The Elder Scrolls Online" is SO extremely loved by the people. That game is easy (from the beginning till the end, from normal to vet) and you don' t have to get the best armor or so because ALL works good. There are SO many young AND old people because they want to play a good game. They want to have great dialogs, a great story and lot of fun!
to be fair, thats in large parts because of sbmm and the nonsensical matchmaking rules. Like one win every 10 games or the first game every day has to be good to keep you playing
@@Pr0fila ohh so that's the secret, I never even get to 10 games per session cuz I get tired of dying at the last 3 teams and then immediately get in a lobby of sweats who kill me within the first 5 minutes
This was my experience playing with my brother and his friend. They won't even get in fights they just wanted to win the Battle Royale... And then if we did get in fights I had zero experience so of course we lose. I'd get so bored I just run into the enemy on purpose. They'd get so mad 😂😂😂
When i was a kid i played this game called Gotham City Impostars a lot over one summer. I got very good at it to the point i reached 3rd place on the leaderboards for overall score. One day i stumbled upon the top 2, and they would sit under a map hazard that caused damage, and heal eachother for score. Thats when i realized some people arent in this for the fun, they are in it to be at the top, at any cost.
@@theultimatedisciple7974You can hate both. Nobody likes sweaty tryhards especially ones who are at the point of abusing such a cheap tactic like OP mentioned
@@theultimatedisciple7974 I hate the dumb players for funding the stupid game. Whales are just as bad as streamers and esports. The hate is 100% deserved at this point.
I play Fortnite with my friends from time to time and I hop in a ranked builds game and the person was better than everyone in the lobby pretty much combined the Smurfs being mad they lost in their higher ranked lobby’s is happening more often than it needs to and yet the companies do just about nothing to smurfs.
Haha yeah, every Challenger players I can watch says Master/Gransmaster Elo is the most toxic place you can think off. But when they are Challenger, all of the sudden everyone is polite and chill. It's the grinding system, and society is no different.
In my Diamond games most of the time when there is a Smurf that is 15-0 we just FR or the team just starts running it down so it can end if other people won’t do 😂
low ranked matches are hell because of those smurfs. You get a smurf on the enemy team like 6 games in a row and suddenly you’re fighting to not get demoted.
What ruined gaming for me mostly fps games are try hards,they think they're sooo good(yes they usually are)but it's not fun when they just trying so hard to just win the game in 2 mins.This video is pretty accurate
So a couple of years ago Darts was something losers and drunks played in the pub. Suddenly it started blowing up to such degrees that it has full tv coverage in several European countries. Pubs saw their laddercompetitions grow and flourish. And we saw the same there. I play in a league, lowest of the lowest lvl. I go in there just to have fun, meet new people and throw a dart or 2 while doing so. Then you have the sweats who think they have a shot at becoming world champion. Ladder went from 40 people to 70, back to 45. No casual player remains. The pub team that existed was free to join. You did have to commit to a certain schedule but other than that it was just a night out with the boys drinking and playing darts. Now you have to go through trials, hit a certain lvl and even then you are not sure of your place. The team existed for years, it's dead now. Fights between teammembers, differences in ambitions,... It's dead. It's not something exclusive to gaming. When there is something to win, a small chance that what you like doing as a hobby could become your job many start thinking they actually could.
Removing dedicated servers ruined gaming. The max you’ll play with a stranger is 20 minutes in a lobby compared to daily on dedicated servers. Having admin privileges was the best.
Facts. Dedicated servers were the best thing to happen to gaming. Want skins? Make them. Bored with the maps? Make your own. Gamemodes getting stale? Community made mods take 10mins to install. Gamespy shut down? Community made anticheat incoming. EA no longer supporting the game? Doesn't matter it runs on dedicated servers. Medal of Honor Allied Assault is still playable to this day. Why? Dedicated servers.
Streaming has also ruined some games, as developers now only listen to the 0.1% of gamers who are streamers. And then try to balance the game around them. This ruins the game for casual players. They leave the game. Streamers have no one to play with. And after they also leave the game, it is practically dead.
I think the solution is make games meant to be played Casually. For example, old multiplayer games didnt have ranked in the slightest and people made their own competitive. The main issue is not the match making is that games need to focus on weather they yinna be a sweat game or be a casual party game.
Warning: ESSAY incoming. problem what we have here is two-fold; by not using meta or a close approximation to it you either A: Can't carry your own weight (which is valid if the build you had was really trash which I doubt) or B: People value their time, just because you've done it "100 times" doesn't mean anything when you are about to join a group that wants to get it done now before the missus starts complaining or the kids needs help with homework. Something that would take 10-15 minutes shouldn't take close to an hour, that's inexcusable. Now you'd think those numbers are an exaggeration but I play a lot of division 2 and I see horrible builds every single day doing legendary missions that SHOULD take 15 minutes tops. 3 dps, 1 healer or CC (CC being prefered here since rooted enemies don't shoot back and doesn't take cover so they are easier and quicker to kill). We could argue what "reasonable extra time" to clear a legendary mission would be acceptible... half an hour instead of 15 minutes? sure... but when we're closing in on 45 minutes - 3 times the "normal" time (not even a speed run time mind you).... then you start to hear some muttering. Then after a while people just invite and instant kick or invite, ask if you have a dps or a cc build and then if not kick. But that takes time and finally people stop inviting randoms or matchmake totally because what's the point in filtering out trash for an hour when you could just carry some sorry sob through the mission during that time. Then people start doing them in duos or solo in less than 30 minutes, regulary so no need to even group up any more. Now it's one thing to not have everything super duper maxed out and another thing to have something equipped that says "I sneezed and clicked at the same time and now this is what I wear", if you show signs of actually trying to follow a cookie cutter meta build (which to be honest isn't a dergatory but rather a baseline to follow) people tend to be more friendly and let you in a group even if it takes longer time. But then we have to consider C When asked if you had build X, did you get defensive or were you apologetic or even worse dead silent/afk? Because what we see here is only your side of the argument. So TL:DR I think it's a mix between B and C that got you rejected.
@@AMolinaLamatta yeah call it "haters" for not wanting to waste an inappropriate time doing some mission/dungeon/raid you already have on farm status because someone wants to be an unique and beautiful snowflake that drags the team down. Try your builds on your own time and with friends, when joining randoms it's usually a crap show, when joining a group "LF1M" try to atleast put some effort into your build because no matter what you're going to be judged and if you get argumentative or snarky you will get the boot. not because the other people didn't respect your build, but that you didn't respect their time -AND your own build. META isn't a BAD thing, it is striving for perfection, that smooth quick run, adding people to friends lists, playing with them regularly breezing through easy content and working as a team in harder.... If you don't want to be a cog in that group dynamic you can be a circle, square or whatever on your own or with likeminded. NOONE is forcing you apart from you yourself and your inability to make friends in online games. But yeah, it's much easier to call it "haters" ...
@@AMolinaLamatta then when you're with friends and meta morons try to join or start their trash boot m.....do to tham what they do to you but at least say why as you do it, "we're booting you cus we respect individual loadouts and you don't!"
To add onto this conversation: Zero Sum is a concept in which one person has to gain just as much as the other person has to lose. I forget where I heard it but when you do the math, the sum total is zero. "Zero Sum is Zero Fun." To get people to not care about the outcome. . . is to remove the concept of games being Zero Sum. Titan Fall 2. When you lost in that game, you didn't lose, it just triggered an event where the winners were on one side of the event, and the losers were on the other. The people on the losing side had to escape, and the winners had to kill them. Winning and losing didn't matter, it was just about escaping. And if you lost there, who cares? Most of the match didn't matter anyways, and that was the fun part.
@@randypeterson6938 SBMM is a stupid concept ON PRINCIBLE. It assumes games are more fun when you are facing players of your own skill level. . . which isn't fun. Games are more fun when you are qued with fun opponents/teammates. Doesn't matter if they are better or worse than you. What matters is "how" they play the game. One of the bigger changes nintendo made to Mario Maker 2 is the ability to downvote levels. When you downvote levels, it makes it less likely for other players to deal with it. Now imagine that system implemented around random ques. "Do you want to que up with more players like this", a simple yes or no question. This gives the player a "Enjoyment based rating score". Downvote or upvote. The system keeps track of if you downvote more or upvote more and prioritizes the one you do less. If a guy who only downvotes players, their downvote rating is worth like less than 1% of what the downvote is worth of a person who only upvotes. The point of the system is to rate a player on how many people find them enjoyable or how many find them annoying, while also disregarding those that only vote one way. From there, it assigns a "score" or a "rating" to that player. . . not based on skill, but on how enjoyable they are. This "Enjoyment Based Match Making" system prioritizes people of similar enjoyment ratings. Meaning the people who are annoying get put in annoying lobbies and people are fun to play against get put in lobbies with other fun people to play against. So the sweats and the cheaters get the bad lobbies and the casuals who are just here to have fun get the good lobbies. How you treat your fellow players will get you karma that gets you worse or better lobbies. "+rep", THIS is how you make a good match making system: By making it via player recommendations and NOT based off of skill. Annoying players hurt the playerbase. If they quit cause they get bad lobbies, good.
@@Hadeks_Marow This system assumes that whatever game you are playing has a player base large enough that you can actually find a game with these "fun players" without the search times being way too long. I don't really understand people having an issue with sbmm on principle. In most situations people dont want to get gutterstomped even when they are playing casual instead of ranked. I could be the most friendly player in the world who doesnt chase metas on dota, but if i get matched against someone with less than 2k hours I will probably crush them and they will hate the experience. I think the main issue with sbmm is just when it detects rise in skill over too small a period of time. If a game is checking your skill over like 20 games then it should be able to make an informed decision on whether you are in the right skill bracket or not.
@@marklebury SBMM works for fighting games that are 1v1. But that's the ONLY time the systems works. As soon as there's a 3rd person, the system breaks down and fails to accurately depict each players capabilities. SBMM is based on the Elo Rating System designed by Arpad Elo. . . who made it. . . FOR CHESS TOURNAMENTS. It was NEVER designed for videogames NOR any form of system outside of a 1v1 and DEFINITELY not for a casual/enjoyable setting. That is one of the core components of the issue. It was not made for the medium it's used in and the problems because of such are self apparent. And even in the fighting game example, it does nothing in regards to "good players not trying". A user review would account for such a notion. SBMM and EBMM work on the same system, assigning a number to a player and finds players who are online within a similar number range to the player for the player to play against. The only difference is what that number represents and how that number was achieved. If no one likes getting curbstomped, then the curbstompper would naturally get downvoted and pushed to the bottom (so that curbstompers get put in matches with other curbstompers) and the people who joke around, meme, not take the game seriously and just have fun with it get pushed to the top with similar playstyles. The goal of such a system is to aim to emulate the type of experience of playing in private lobbies with your friends. You are NOT going to be as good as your friend. That's not what makes such a match enjoyable. What makes it enjoyable is playstyle and how seriously you take the game in relation to the other player. A casual does not want to play with/against a sweat. The social aspect with friends creates a "social game balance" which is the alternative to "developer implemented game balance" where, when you are with friends, the better player is naturally going to not try as hard as the worse player where both players choose to balance out the scales on their own instinctually. Once again, the goal of an EBMM system would be to try and promote and endorse that social game balance aspect as a means to emulate the experience of playing with friends. It achieves this by users naturally rewarding and punishing those who actively make the game a better or worse experience for them. And this much. . . can be attributed. . . with NO correlation to skill what-so-ever. That's because, unlike SBMM/ERS, an EBMM system is actually DESIGNED for videogames with multiple people in a match. It is not designed for rank-play though. That's where SBMM/ERS would have to stay unfortunately. When it comes to unranked ques on the other hand, the only people who don't get to have fun are the players making the game unfun.
One of the saddest moments in gaming was WoW HC. I was in a guild with a guy who was a 47 warrior and he had ton of viewers and he was so happy. His toon died and everything goes away. No one wanted to watch him go again, in his own guild people were discussing which streamer to jump to and he was left with basically nothing after thinking he had finally made it as a streamer.
So because he made it to lvl 47, he deserves lifetime viewership? Not how it works. Go back to the chalkboard and find another reason for people to click on your stream
@@alexv6213 oh I agree with you, if WoW HC was your entire platform then you were bound to lose. I simply just said it was sad to witness the extreme change in this person.
28:48 Yeah, I started playing fighting games at that age because I didn't have to rely on a sports team. It was all me, win or lose. I learned a lot about competition mindset and carried that forward into adulthood.
I remember being a kid with my dad at the game store to pick up Ocarina of Time for the Nintendo 64. I saw the official guide book on a shelf and wanted it because it looked cool. My dad said no because "what is the point of getting a book that spoils the entire game". And as he said it I agreed because ofcourse it was true. I just wanted it for the looks but I knew that it would be so stupid to have a guide for a game when the point is to explore it and find all the things. Now, fast forward to now and I was enjoying Season of Discovery with some people at work. We were two weeks from the release of season 2. They were all reading up on which class and spec will be the best. Some of them had re-rolled new characters since the one they picked for phase 1 was no longer the meta. They already knew what talents to pick. They had stocked up on any item that can be handed in for xp and their plan for enjoying the new content was to get online quickly at launch and then permagrind the same dungeon until they hit max. So that they could do Gnomeregan on the second day. Before they did Gnomeregan they obviously would watch a stream of other people doing it and reading up on all the bosses. So that they could one shot it. I feel like I am living in an insane asylum observing this. People are not just buying the official guide book with every game they play. They read it from cover to cover before they start the game up, so that they can get through it as fast as possible and with as little enjoyment as possible. So that they can then feel superior to the people who didn't.
Right? Literally defeats everything about the game in my opinion… What happened to just enjoying a game for what it is… a “game”. They need to change the definition of “game” these days, cause ppl aren’t “gaming” they’re literally just “grinding”
Honestly, coming from experiencing both sides of this coin between casually enjoying a game and playing it almost as if its a competition (soft speedrun) (cause I do both depending on the game), just let them? You may not enjoy that style but they can. It's one thing when they hate doing it but they keep doing it cause they're addicted to the game, and it's another to actively diminish others by complaining about them when they're seeking their own form of enjoyment without affecting you.
@@plankbroI am a speedrunner. I have been placed relatively high on the world leaderboards in three NES games. I also played for one of my countries top two clans in Starcraft 2 and practiced 8 hours a day. This isn't about playing the game casually vs "competitively". This is the illusion of competitive gaming, often at the expense of the entire experience of the game.
@@Ymirheim That is how you feel about it, but to others there is no expense. I can sit through a 50+ hour Dark Souls playthrough no guides no wiki just using the coolest weapon I find without any desire for what is OP, and I can also spend 4 hours on a team builder website for a Pokemon game without any intention to PvP. This is solely so I can one shot gyms and random pokemon, which I find to be fun. My experience isn't ruined in either, and if I'm playing an MMORPG, I'm gonna be crunching numbers, looking up the meta cause I want to see those numbers skyrocket. It isn't off some shallow desire to be 'better than you', I just want to see my toon be at the best I can make it. There are extremes granted, like how some do it to show off to others and detest casuals and hate it when ppl dont play meta, and there is the other extreme side, where you find their style of gaming to be offensive to you.
@@plankbroThis is not about everyone sitting down and figuring out which way they will enjoy the game the most and then doing that though. The problem with the always competitive metagaming culture is the opposite. It prevents people from being able to even conceive how they might enjoy the game the most. It's one thing to meticulously figure out which class and spec will do slightly more dps than all the others and play that because you get a genuine thrill out of having higher numbers than the rest. It is another to google the best class/spec and then pick that one because you're afraid that if you don't you won't find groups and raids. Or because you will feel like you are a worse player when everyone link the logs after raids. Most people who do this still convince themselves that they're doing it because they just love playing games competitively.
The one game I watched this happen in real time was Escape from Tarkov. Once it blew up on twitch the devs catered solely to streamers and their followers requests.
Yeah, it's really just min-maxing by the devs. If all you knew about basketball or football came from sportscenter highlight montages and top tens, you'd have a very distorted view on what those games actually are and how they should be played.
Collect money quickly after the wipe and run gunblaze everyone in top armor. Streamers have an advantage because the ones I followed played almost all day. Not surprised that sptarkov, where you can play single player, has become very popular now. Where you can calmly explore locations, and the main thing is use weapons you want, not the ones that effective in PvP
@@cocainym SPTarkov has been fun and it's free with great customization options thanks to mods. It was the most fun I've had on Tarkov since my first few wipes in the long long ago
Gaming isn’t ruined there’s like so many other games that are good. Just because Diablo an old franchise went down hill or Activision hates you. That’s not games in general.
I got into building gaming PCs back in 2019 when I was 29 and im still doing it and still playing games. But I have definitely found that I went from 4-6 hours a night down to 2-4 hours, maybe 3 nights a week if im lucky. And im almost 34 and can still keep up with younger kids. It can get annoying sometimes but it’s all good.
I think the problem with gaming is multifaceted: 1. Battle royales is a self canabilzing style of game. Before it was team vs team in shooter games, now it’s your team vs 20 others. How can you ever do SBMM with over 100 players at the same time versus the past with 4 v 4. I had multiple 50s back in Halo 3 and I can say without a doubt that Platinum and above in Apex is 100x more sweatier. 2. How games make money now with live service: live service games incentivize people to win more or less and it’s all about player retention now. The levers these companies can pull depending on how much someone purchases can change the experience. Would you want to give a whale spender easier games to keep them hooked? 3. First person shooters have been out for 20+ years. Think about how some of us have been playing games longer than these kids have been on this planet. Hell we’re playing the same game as these kids on older generation consoles that are older than them. 4. Information and content for these games are everywhere now compared to back in the day. 5. Ability to make money in gaming has made it even sweatier. I find this minor but people do mimic the play styles of top players. Overall all of these things combined have turned FPS games and others into a cluster of difficulty spike and why everything is so damn sweaty.
your number 4 is often underrated I think. Back in the day there were no YT tutorials. I too catch myself looking up a guide when I fail multiple times. Only recently I try to be aware of that and withstand that behavior. Back in the day optins were much more limited. Try again an again over multiple days (Driver 1 - Garage). Visit a friend who is better or has better knowledge. Or buy a gaming magazine with tips and tricks ^^
Great point skill based matchmaking how does it work in battle royales. The idea of normal skill based matchmaking team vs team or 1v1 is to get you go a 50 percent win rate. With apex your accounting for 100 people of different levels is it a average rating but then surely it cant ever be a fair chance. Then you have the even more complex questions apex and other battle royales need to answer rating. Survial in battle royales simply should never be as effective as either killing or winning., Points need to be Last standing > Kills> time survived. So in apex you can have a problem because the gsme promotes ratting so much you have 0 reasons to learn positioning movement or gunplay
Your number 4 is really on point. I played baldurs gate 3 from release and unknowingly kept googling stuff like "how to complete a quest" or "best built for...". Because it was a new game there was no content for the stuff I was doing. Because of that my first playthrough was the most memorable. I didn't know what was ahead of me, I just tried something out and after some time I arrived at the right conclusion. I know its not the same comparing online gaming and single player but the concept still applies. People nowadays just copy the "meta" shit and everyone just becomes Buzz Lightyear from the toy shop scene thinking they are doing something unique while literally just copying experience of someone else. Sadly gaming is not about fun anymore, but rather achieving something that someone else has achieved.
As an old school gamer who started with NES in the late 80s, I have never enjoyed online games because it the full time gamers or sweaty players who sink insane hours into mastering the game. I prefer co-op /PVE to competitive play as the goal is beat the game together rather than against each other /PVP.
15:40 | On the topic of skill based matchmaking, Overwatch is probably the best example of the worst SBMM. It doesn't try to measure your overall skill and rather sets you into only two categories, either you lost your previous match or you won. Depending on your win:loss ratio it will try to put you in matches of people where if you win, you will be put with teammates who have been losing a lot recently, and again opponents who are set to win. It tries to even out the win:loss ratio rather than let you just be good at the game. In Overwatch 1 I was in Diamond with a 4:1 win:loss ratio, and I am still paying the price for being good to this day with weeks where I lose 20 games in a row over the course of multiple weeks. After I got a 10 game winning streak in Overwatch 2, I then proceeded to be matched with Top 500s and lost 50 games and won 10 in the same month.
Overwatch is the reason why it gets noisy in my place with my raging Bro but he just keeps playing it. Same with Tekken. 😕 Talking about some "Fun" games - more like mental. Makes me moody hearing it, too.
This seems more like CBMM (Connection-based) with a lower population pool. It can even be lag at play, depending on the game's server architecture. Alternatively it could be VERY loose SBMM and you are stuck between categories (ie game cant decide which rank you are). Again this is happening of low population. Before you ask for SBMM, i will say that it is preferable if you win some and lose some. With SBMM every game will be a slugfest, even if it doesnt appear the case. Because of Overwatch has control/capture points and the defending team can hold those points, you may die attacking it (thus having close to 1 kill/death ratio) but in reality that system will lead to more blowouts, because the attackers wont risk deaths and just let the defenders win (or even mass quit if they are clans). So you will definitely feel frustrated in that case and you might even wish for CBMM to reappear.
Why play ranked over quick play in Overwatch at all? I tried a few times back in the OW1 days, and it was the same as in quick play. Since then, I have never moved from quick play, and I play for fun without overpowered comps, etc. And I don't care if your hero counters mine. I will play my big boy Cassidy anyway lol
The solution to sbmm is adding ranked play. Then leaving sbmm out of casual play. Then when you wanna sweat. You can go get sweaty. You just got off work after a long week. You can go play casually.
Back when i enjoyed Overwatch 1, i had to first suffer trough losing around 100 ranked matches in a row before the system recognized my skill level. It was torture to constantly get wrecked and have the team complaining and reporting me after each match for beeing bad. It should not be like that to get to have fun in a game.
@@metallboy25That's one third. One third is people mad at the sweats. One third is people fucking around and having fun (seen most commonly in games like Dark Souls, where you can do some really goofy shit with cheats). The final third is people who are already good but want to reach the top for free. This phenomenon is just exclusive to competitive games either; cheaters in speedrunning always fall into this category.
Single player solves every problem mentioned here. I never understood the need to chase something that mean nothing. Play for yourself and just to have fun and every problem mentioned in this video goes away.
Makes me think of the original Warzone. Everyone was playing due to COVID and were just having fun. Within a few months it became all about “meta” weapons. Suddenly, everyone is running the Grau and then next Season everyone is using the all black Roze skin. When it first came out, you saw people using all the guns. People were just having fun and exploring the sandbox. It felt so different in such a small time frame.
I think the thing that kept games pretty level back in the day was that the skill gap was essentially limited to how good your aim was and your left, right and jump movement. (Think Halo 2/3) Now there are all these fancy mechanics like slide, sprint, clamber, lean, etc. Games should have casual playlists that limit all the extra stuff you can do and bring it back to the basics then add all the extra to ranked.
@@Killjoy.Z I see your point and the original commentor's point. We wanna play games to relax, and a non-competitive playlist would be the perfect place to do so. But restricting movement mechanics (which you do the entire time you play) would entirely taint that game. We just want less sweaty bullshit, and perhaps a less complex game!
Well in general youre right. As far as button pressing modern games have way more options, and they take time to get good at. And until you put in that time youre gonna be slaughtered by those who already have, and these days thats many people. Comes down to the time to proficiency. The more buttons or options available to utilize, the longer it takes to get good. And if the options are vast, then those who spend their lives on a game will have a huge advantage over those who play casually. Which is fine, except when theyre lumped together because in that scenario, avg joe, or anyone not a high level button pusher, has no chance. Lower the options, then hey it won't take as much time to reach a competitive level in that particular mode.
Yeah, everything is about that grind, this is why I love PvE and Singleplayer games. Playing alone or with friends, just having fun. PvE games like Left 4 Dead 1 and 2, Deep Rock Galactic, etc., and now Helldivers 2. One of the multiplayers that I still play to this day (not regularly tho) is Team Fortress 2, because it is the last bastion of the old ways of multiplayer shooters (you can join and leave when you want, there are ppl memeing, there are ppl trying hard, there are ppl just having fun, etc).
@@a-animal1206 It's definitely becoming more a niche, that's for sure. Like you are either a PVP tryhard sweating over every match, or you're into PVE.
What ruins online gaming for me is losing my skill I used to have. Life drained my skills as I stepped away from games and it genuinely makes me frustrated.
Bro just to let you know, you are probably not any worse than what you used to be bruddah I promise. Its just that the generations that inhabit video games are much more prone to cheating and don't care if its them actually doing things. I promise you bro the statistic is literally like 1 in 3 people are cheating.
I used to feel the same way cause when i was younger some of my selfworth was tied up to how good i was at games. Left that behind me and now i'm okay having a good life and mediocre gaming skills.
What ruined gaming is instant gratification. Ppl are satisfied/happy to see streamers win and it’s exponentially more satisfying when there are ppl who intentionally try to stop them and they’re happy whether or not you win or lose. Smurfing fundamentally cannot be taken away or punishable bc every aspect of it is part of the game. Ppl need to climb, ppl need alt accounts, ppl have to play, ppl want to play other roles, etc… games combat smurfing by moving them multiple ranks at once but they still need to play to move up.
I really relate to this. I’m watching this at 2am, on a night shift. I’ve got a wife and kids, working rotating shift work. I really only have time to play on my days off after the kids have gone to sleep. Like, a handful of times a month. I literally don’t have time to even learn how to be a sweat. I’ve thought for a while now that streaming ruined gaming.
Can't say when it happened. And I was pretty competitive myself. I'm a big Apex legends fan. Made it up to masters and I barely scratched predator. No streaming of the kind. Just wanted the rank for me. But after some time. The time I grinded, the mismatched teams, the losses, and frustrations. I out my controller down and asked what I was doing getting all worked up for. Then I saw sales on different games. Xcom, metro 2033, star wars jedi, doom just to name a few. Something outside the same multiplier games. Dude, the shift from being the best to just having fun was eye opening. Now, I'm happy to get on the console after a long day and get through a mission I started before I left to work and I was looking forward to get back home to play. Felt like a highschooler beack in the COD BO2 days. Damn, what happened? This video really does explain a lot. Sad to see how it all turned out
2 days ago I played ranked Apex. I literally had to get off and take a break because in a game where I carried the whole game, a guy mic'd up and yelled at me because he died to ring because "I didn't ping where I was going", "I was using Mirage to run away from fights and just picking off their kills.", and "I didn't wait on the edge of the next circle so he can use his Newcastle ult to move over to me." Like...He had 1 kill and 300 damage. I carried him to top 2, and literally couldn't focus on killing the last squad because he was more interested in screaming about how him dying 3 times during the match was my fault. And before that I had two guys kill themselves and refuse to play with me because the first game I was AFK, had something important to do, and the second guy was off killing people, doing very well. But as soon as he died, he mic'd up and said "Why can't I get help over here?" Dude. You were killing everyone, you were doing just fine. But now once you get downed now you're wondering why we didn't help? Plus, we weren't ready. He started fighting off drop. I revived them, and instead of continuing to play they killed themselves. These were two different games. I also had one similar game to these earlier in the day. I don't understand. I seriously don't understand why a random game of Apex gets people so angry they are willing to ruin their own play time just to spite another person for something that was their fault. But then I ran into a guy who was great and we ended up going on a 7 game win streak, so it was worth it but man.
I used to play Apex as well before I got a PC. I feel like over the last 5-6 years, or maybe even more recently, the integration of cross play ruined online console gaming for me. Apex and fortnite were my two most played games and then when cross platform became the standard it was noticeable how much more difficult it became to compete in these lobbies. It seemed like 70% of the players were keyboard and mouse and held a significant advantage over the controller players. Ever since switching to PC a couple years ago I’ve noticed a significant difference in the floor of my play on games like Fortnite. I’m not amazing but I no longer feel like a JV high schooler playing against NBA players.
Bro we are same, i once a sweaty shooter player especially in apex and consider myself is avaerage to good reaching diamond, after taking toll on my mental with enemy or teammate. I choose pve game and just thinking to have fun, fk meta or anything i just want to play , have fun, and helping new player if there is co op. Now i playing Helldiver and Granblue relink most time
@dandyshark6094 It really sucks because I don't even consider myself sweaty. I just happen to be really good at shooting and fighting games. For whatever reason, they've always just clicked for me. But I don't take none of this seriously, lol. I be laughing and joking, doing stupid stuff, screaming, all kinds of random stuff, just having a good time. Win or lose. It doesn't really matter. Then you'll get everyone out of the woodwork, angry and cursing. "You should've done this and that!", "Play for placement! Just sit there!", "It's a team game. You should be everywhere where I am!" Like bruh. Are we really having fun? You just told me to sit and do nothing for 20+ minutes. So we can earn some digital points? No way. This is a sickness 🤣
yeah sadly almost every game now like that, even pve game have their own sweaty, imagine the competitive one. the thing is we need something like for casual and something for hardcore. but it is hard to do because the nature of people sometime hardcore want smack casual while some casual want to get into ranked. not to say toxic one.@@fudge3458
"Joining a lobby that continuosly rolls through matches/maps/gamr modes and being able to join/leave when you want to." Thats a blast from the past. It was so good.
I genuinely don't get why this stopped being a thing in multiplayer games. When I played COD on the Xbox 360 in high school, I'd stay in the same lobbies for hours, forming friendships and rivalries and just generally having a good time. Now, lobbies automatically disband after the match is over, so unless you friend request all those people, you'll never see them again.
The real challenge for a lot of individuals in todays climate, being able to see things from another individuals perspective. Sadly, it is not because they are not capable. It's because they are just too self absorbed to take the time.
you can see this with people attacking super popular single player games for falling off in population after a while. Its like.. dude this isnt some mtx laden multiplayer or whatever flavor of the season live service. Single player games get completed and people move on, they have a wonderful time and remember it fondly. Thats how it always used to be before these constant crossovers, pay for everything, MTX laden manipulative turn players into payers garbage. They've completely lost perspective on what a great gaming experience is outside of grinding currency, doing the same mindless gameplay repeatedly and taking out their wallets every update.
I think it’s the chain effect of all of it. Streamers, their effect on culture, studios response to it, incomplete products, instant gratification. It all compounds and has the effect we see now.
Or, just hear me out. Some people are just not competitive in nature, but they choose to play a competitive game anyway. And are now complaining that they have to play against competitive players. 😂
If you get good at a job you'll rent and live frugally your whole life, one medical disaster away from poverty. If you're good at a video game apparently you get buy a house, nice watches, millions of admirers and a big group of friends. This is what kids see.
Online streaming is so hyped focused on winning, progressing the fastest way and finding the best weapon / most abusive weapon to use to gain advantage that it directly and indirectly influenced game designs but also the players themselves. Everything got a lot more serious for better and worse.
This is why I’ve come to love DayZ. Even on console it’s just such a serene experience. One day I’m out for PVP. The next I’m building fires and hunting. Throw a few friends in there and every adventure is different. The people make the game and when the experience becomes depersonalized and reduced down to a rank, it’s empty from there on out.
mp games will never be as good again as they were in the 00s when people just chilled and had fun on custom modded servers in cs, garrys mod, hl2dm etc. Playing css zombie mod on my clan server with all the regulars every day was the most fun I ever had playing mutliplayer games. It was all about funmaxxing
This reminds me of what I love about dedicated servers like they had in Counter Strike 1.6 and Source. If you joined a server with someone dominating you just went to a different server until you found something that matched your level. I know matchmaking has its benefits but it just has never been as good to me. Plus you end up finding great communities that you can easily come back to by adding the server as a favorite. If I remember correctly, COD 4 on PC also had dedicated servers and I loved it.
@@rogersmith3094 Yes, but I had the same power too, try doing that in League where you get put in a timer if you quit the game because the enemy team has 1 or more smurfs... the CS 1.6 system was way better
Yeah it was great with the original MW/CoD4. That's the last true triple A game I can remember that had dedicated or player-hosted servers. I'm sure there were others, but it definitely died out very soon after that.
As a 25 year old now, I can say that playing video games back in the day in like felt more like a social thing. I don’t think I ever played games without either someone else at my house with a second controller, or online lobbies. Today, it feels almost like a hassle to set up games with your friends
im 31 , and dude games back in the day was so much more fun , try hards were a thing or "campers" were a thing , now its all set up for campers and playing in a cheesy ass way ,
The best matchmaking approach I heard of, in a team game: In 5v5 PvP game, matchmaker has 20% chance to match you as a carry (significantly above matchmaking rating of your teammates). There's always exactly one carry in each team. So quite regularly you experience that feeling of being dominant, while other players in your team aren't too upset cause they are all matched closely, and they get to experience same thing too in different matches sometimes. So it's like 20% of time you carry, and 80% you can learn from your carry.
People should just play what they enjoy. A lot of times you cultivate a skill through experience. Talent is rare and not an excuse. I played super smash bros casually and eventually began hosting and attending SSBU tournaments in my area for fun. I ended up beating a guy who placed in EVO (he stopped showing up to my local after that lol). I played falcon and beat his meta. Find something that works for you and have fun, don't try to be what you arent or what people tell you to be.
I played marth, peach, yoshi and ice climbers in melee and I beat this dude who was a super tryhard zelda tournament player over and over with every character. I always lost to this guy who only played Luigi and he would just do the side missile thing very well timed and that was his only move.
the problem is people don't know what they are or what they want to be. So most of the time they are gonna emulate what calls out to them, which is the tryhard streamers they watch. Critical thinking ain't common place in the youth, much less when it comes to trying to understand one self.
13:02 having worked as a personal trainer at a large gym franchise, the pickup basketball games happening are littered with guys who played in college and believe they would have made the NBA if “they wanted to” or if “they didn’t get hurt” or if “their coach didn’t hate them”, etc. People get in fights, scream at each other and all that even in low level pickup games.
To add to controller settings, so many "streamers" spam videos of "use this setup to get 99.9% accuracy" and "destroy your opponents with this loadout build" which is so annoying.
They leave out the part where gameplay is rigged on most of these "triple a" fps games and they are getting boosted connections because they influence more people/money.
@@gazb2740 or lobbies full of bots/low skill players, special undetectable cheats, the backing of major corporations and power players within the government. MOST major streamers have familial connections to very high up positions of power.. "influencer" is a powerful role and those who hold all the power understand this, its why someone like masongold.. i mean asmongold cant say whatever he wants
I don't think streaming ruined it, I think competition ruined gaming. Companies ruined gaming by making anything and everything without caring whether it was good or not and than on top of that everyone and even companies promoting the first person to do something or adding trophies and achievements. Back in the day I was an achievement whore which means I had to get every achievement in the game and if it was 1000 hours or some crazy number for 1 game I wouldn't even play it.
Arcades where cool back then because the local group of people you compete against where not the best in the world. Whenever I saw Korean esports I though it was neat to see gaming go more mainstream but I never thought it looked fun to be in.
Streaming/esports might have propelled it further in that direction, but as a former 12 year old playing shooters before streaming got popular; there were always sweaty gamers gaming in online games
When ubisoft made rainbow six siege and then just continuously milked the fans to this day and not even released a new rainbow six irks me, I want the fun I had playing rainbox six vegas 1 & 2, and all those ranks and customization options were completely free to earn in-game too :( ...I miss those days.
Used to play tournaments in halo 2. Last halo game came out. Played it for a bit, got a little better and thought. "I'm going to start playing ranked." Worked my way up to top of diamond and then all the sudden I couldn't win. I lost 50+ games in a row, literally went days without a win and it wasn't like I was just loosing. We were getting beat 20-50/15-50 every game. Had teammates that couldn't even get a kill and it dropped me all the way to bronze. Quit playing the game and haven't picked it up since.
@@matthewmullins4046 i have no idea. I couldn't believe it. It was like it was impossible to kill anyone. Not in a way that they where good and I couldn't beat them, but that it seemed to take way more hit markers for me to kill them. Heroes of the storm and overwatch had a very similar ranking system. If you got to far above what they originally ranked you at the beginning of the season the game would start making it more difficult for you to win. In my case that ment matching you with teammates that didn't know which end of the gym the bullets came out of. Again, seemed to be more than that. Other players all the sudden became much harder to take down
@@tylerandiemichael159 I play Valorant ranked for fun (I'm just Silver, nothing special cause I'm not good at FPS games)... when I was trying to get out of Bronze (I'm better than almost any Bronze player) I would get to 1 win away from ranking up... that rank up game would magically be on my worst map (Breeze) almost every time (8 out of 10 tries) at which I have only a 20% win rate and would ALWAYS have at least one guy on the other team that would end the game with 35+ kills which is an insane kill count for ranked valorant against players "of your level"... games want to keep you running on a wheel like a hamster... if you rank up and are satisfied you might stop playing you see... Better example... back in 2013-2014 I used to be a pro-level player at FIFA (not a professional, just division 1 and winning a ton of games even at the top)... back then the game was fair, the skill gap was huge if you knew how to play and the game didn't assist you or cover your mistakes... but then they started to cater to the bad players to assist them at "not getting beat that bad"... so what did they do? Assume you're doing a wrong pass and aim right at your opponents defender... the game would do everything in it's power to make the pass go through and the ball would go way off from where you aimed to avoid the defender... you're pretty much not playing anymore, the AI is correcting your mistakes left and right and all you do is button mash... so now people now literally button mash in a sports game... which made me quit cause I didn't care about getting to the top if it wasn't due to skill... the game literally has scripted instances where the input doesn't match the output within the game to make you lose more games if you're good to "keep you playing" since you take waaaaay longer to get to your deserved rank... back in 2013 since in FIFA you have to start from Division 10 at the bottom every year, it took me literally 2 weeks to get to Division 1 and had a win% of 90-95% and up to Division 3 I pretty much was at 100%, can't remember losing a game in those divisions cause I was simply too good for them... but after getting to Division 1 these low rank players would never see me again... And by the way, this should be lawsuit worthy since it's really messing with people's mental health... gaming companies are causing kids mental breakdowns just to make money... nothing shittier than that...
@@sportschool3537 I also play valorant ranked, 1,000+ hours,peak platinum 3, and what you said is 100% accurate. Valorant is the most addicting video game I’ve ever played. Riot knows what they are doing and it’s intentional. Lawsuit worthy 100%.
I remember the first time urf was released in League of Legends. That was so much fun. Everyone was just trying out builds and having fun. Nobody was sweaty, everyone just wanted to have a good time. The second time was an entirely different story. Everyone prioritised overpowered builds and if you didn't pick meta builds, you would just lose. Players literally optimised the fun out of it.
You didn't play after the first day or your memory is bad. Most of the lobby was just playing sona, zed, ezreal, jayce, kassadin, hecarim, garen, morgana, lux, and maokai by the second day.
@@redridingcape Not true at all, I played URF mode for the whole time it was up the first time, and while it's true that someone wanted to play one of those every game, 4 of the others wanted something else, and so most of the time the team got to play something else. Also, I honestly never remember playing against Kass, Jayce or Maokai. Of those you listed only Lux, Ez and Zed were actually really popular to the point I played them/against them multiple times, sometimes even in a row. Edit: nvm I was thinking OFA URF. Normal URF I don't remember anymore, except that Heca was busted.
@@Jack_Rakan I hate everything one for all so I have no clue about that. I do remember the first urf though lol. Arena is the GOAT gamemode imo, there's a meta but after the balance changes there's also anti-meta and dark horse comps that are plenty fine to win with. The lower number of players in each fight makes skill, counter matchups, and aug picks more important than the meta typically. Though aug highrolls are sometimes necessary to get first with certain comps.
Honestly as a former gamer since i couldn't play for fun because of sweats, me and my buddies decided to get good at games and then chill so if we ran into these sweaty ass players, we have experience to beat them.
@@RealBadGaming52 It only takes you 3 hours because you are used to modern spoonfed era. We'd have to figure out things for ourselves or git gud. It was a good time for gaming back then. If you grew up with those games, it wouldn't take you 3 hours
I play games for 3 reasons 1. To Relax 2. Experience a different world (Like Skyrim, Space games and Historical RPG) 3. to immerse myslf in a good story like Guardian’s of the Galaxy, Uncharted and Tomb Raider and COD campaighn) other than DOOM93 i NEVER play a game doe the challenge or to own players online or for a stream, fuck that. Online games…fine with close and thats it.
@@mateigabriel3442not rlly, I mean there are tons of people who play old games myself included. If it was good enough for the people back then it is for me and is even preferable to the trash heap that is modern gaming
This also applies to card games as well like magic your gathering. Before the cards are even available the top decks and meta are fairly well defined . You can play 10 rounds and only play against 1-2 decks. It may not be as bad as esport gaming but it has ruined card games a bit.
I've noticed that I literally haven't played multiplayer games for years. Currently the only MP game I play is Helldivers. I simply got tired of not being able to choose my own difficulty. It was so incredibly frustrating to always be playing against people knowing the meta simply because I played better than majority of players.
I would never understand this take. Don't you think that player worst than you get punish when they get match against you ? that's the same logic that you use by saying that you are punish when match against better player.
@@perignontheo9498 Yes they don’t get punished by the game but they will become frustrated which is not a better alternative. Imagine being absolutely obliterated by some sweat just because he used a build that’s give him an advantage. I’d rather be beaten to a pulp by a guy who is actually good at a game rather than some sweaty dude who always uses that same meta build. Side note: If you wanna argue with somebody online, please atleast learn basic grammar and spelling, and don’t you dare pull the ESL card on me cuz English is my 3rd language so that excuse doesn’t work on me and I’m tired of hearing that shit.
@@perignontheo9498 No? I never felt bad doing bad at a video game because I was bad. Like asmon said it is when it feels artificial that is the problem. If I am playing a game I have never played before, I expect to suck at it, I want to suck at it, because I should suck at it. If I don't suck it is obvious the game is holding my hand and treating me like a child and I have zero interest in being coddled. Slowly working your way up the lobby leaderboards overtime is a very satisfying and natural feeling progression system that serves as a motivator to keep playing. But when my score feels like a random dice roll because the difficulty is constantly being secretly adjusted on me behind the scenes, that is when I check out. Then again, dude says he hasn't played multiplayer games in years, so if I was in his shoes I would probably expect to suck.
@@LeHarmacist You seemed to understand perfectly fine what i wanted to express. So i don't see the problem about my shitty grammar / spelling. Im really proud of you being able to speak 3 languages..... ? ( By the way if you come from a Multi cultural background in a non english speaking country it's absolutely the norm. And complaining about "Sweat" ruining the fun while being a grammar nazi is a bit of a conundrum ) I still don't understand the point that losing to a "sweat" is a problem. I played competitive game most of my life. SF6 is my game of choice ATM and i'm am top 0.3% and top 2 finisher in local/online tournament. Playing a sub optimal character. If i lose to someone playing "meta" it's mostly because he his a better player and made better choices. You absolutely can play non meta and perform absolutely fine in most game. I never played a game were the meta was so strong that sub-optimal meta choice were a huge problem. Also if you like to play sub-optimal stuff like i do, any good ranking system will place you at your current level of play with your sub-optimal choices. All i see is people wanting to have fun winning against lower level opponent without facing any adversity.
I'm trash now because I played casually my whole life and now 20-40% of the people playing now were kids that have been playing competitively since they were 5 and are effectively trained professionals compared to me because I had a job at 16 and they've had the same job since they were 6, gamer. "This game isn't for you" becomes "no games are for you" when EVERYONE is becoming the top 1% of SOMETHING.
@@anonimowelwiatko4455 sweats love to smurf casual game modes to blow off steam, most casuals I know don't play ranked they play modes named things like "unrated" and "casual" and still get roflstomped, now all us old people play games like Ghost of Tsushima and Persona 5. A lot of my friends beg me to play games like Valorant and CS sometimes and when I cave I just feel like I'm donating my time and burning an evening for no reason other to placate them, but they play every night so I feel it's the only way I can spend time with them. I recognize the talent in the game though, it's just not what I would call fun from my side. After a few minutes of getting killed and not knowing why I alt tab to read an article or something while they finish out the round.
PvE games is the only healing agent. When helldivers came out i swear it was so cool to call up homies and play. Then you knew anybody u meet kinda was hyped to about . Im 31 im sure thats the last ill see of great community in gaming. Now its over lol helldivers kinda screwed it up with the gameplay overtime
What ruined online gaming for me is that it is not about having fun anymore. It is all revolving around chasing the lastest meta.
Mean while Team Fortress 2: Potiss Potiss
just stop playing into the meta trash, you think its required until you develop your own pool and if the game isnt trash it will allow for players to find their own workable if not better than meta char/play/comps
There's no such thing as a 'latest meta' because it constantly changes. You either adapt, or you lose. That's literally life, which is not a 'meta game'.
Meta and an influx of hacking. People advertise hacks/spoofers on tiktok a lot for profit.
That and the fact that companys stealth boost people who pay for microtransactions. Hearthstone. COD, and a few others.
The mentality shift of "I want to have fun and relax" to "I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was!"
It's the biggest reason I shifted from multiplayer to singleplayer.
And they usually aren't, they're just using some exploit or op meta to compensate
Strange it happened only after the Pokemon era children grew up.
@@dn9156 even on the off chance that they're genuinely skilled, they only feel good if there's someone who loses against them. Singleplayer try-hards at least have a sense of accomplishment for a bit, but the fact that neither single or multiplayer try-hards can just enjoy a game for what it is is the most telling thing
my buddies got me to buy helldivers 2 and they were like 4 hours in and i was like 2 hours in. He's already sending me endgame meta youtube videos like bruh i've only played 2 hours ffs.
Yeah 4-5 years ago, I'd pretty much all but given up on MP gaming, on the rare opportunity I was able to get "the boys" all coordinated for a few hours that no one is working, taking care of their kids or doing chores, we'd try to play something like CSGO and just get dominated by 12 year olds that have infinitely more freetime, to the point it's just not fun. So I switched almost exclusively to SP games for years.
The only recent exception has been Helldivers 2, because I'm not competing "against" the other players, and my friends and family seem way more encouraged to make time when the stakes are low and getting dunked on by teenagers isn't a virtual certainty.
“People are so focused on finishing the game that they don’t play it.” - Fantastic quote man. I think this cut through to the core shift we’ve seen in people’s enjoyment of games.
Eft
Man i really badly struggle with exact that... i start grinding a game an unhealthy amount until i achieved whatever i set myself out to. During the time i start to not enjoy it very quickly, and after i finish the task, i don't touch the game anymore and move on to the next game..
@@coldfries8976you are not alone, I’ve experienced the same thing. Haven’t had it put into words as clearly as asmongold put it here before
@@coldfries8976 I do this with games in a similar way. I start playing and love it and my brain goes into lets do it all!!!!. I have stopped this by playing then. Switching games every couple of weeks then going back again, it's helped me finish games and enjoy the whole playthrough
@@coldfries8976games like Elden ring make unhealthy amounts of grinding worth it
This is why i play single player RPG's. I love just losing myself in the world and getting lost in exploration, without having to worry about anything or anyone.
That might be why Baldurs Gate 3 hot the way it did.
I get that. For me I rather just read a good book. Nothing against RPGs but I can finish a good book in a couple days and RPGs can be a complete life sink for weeks/months single player or not and that's a lot of time missed on other things. Then again I also played Chrono Trigger back in the mid 90's and RPGs never came close haha
@@DannyP-dm1pw no shit, it did take a few months
@@jacobryanjosephmorrison Yeah. I saw friends play that game. End of the day gaming gets you nowhere in life but it's a hobby and for me I rather play some old school arcade style games as the hobby or puzzle games like Tetris in short bursts over dedicating chunks of life to it.
@@jacobryanjosephmorrison Gaming went full corporate after the 6th generation of gaming and once the smaller Japanese teams that worked on games died out. Also and it's not sexist but I'll be called a sexist once women got more involved with gaming they found ways to get Simps to bow to them more. I knew gamer girls back in the 90's but at the arcades in NYC no one gave a fuck who you were. It was about winning. Now I see guys simping for women in games almost like it's only fans.
I tried WoW classic for a bit and every guild had a purple hair comic/tattoo geek that would use her cat anime style tone in discord and simps came running. I ain't got time for that shit.
It wasn't just streamers. It's online gaming in general. It's all about meta, optimizing, builds, elo, leaderboards, competition, etc. The internet ruined the concept of just having fun and enjoying a gaming experience.
U never need to use any of those, enjoy the game how you want. The moment you use these you are part of the problem
Online gaming was fine before so not rly tbh it is more about streamers and the way game implementations changed for online games
just eased the accsess to information. If you choose to play a competitive game instead of a coop or pve oriented one there will always be people who wanna win more than you . They will research the shit out of it . Same goes for chess. If you choose a game with a leaderbord, dont be suprised someone is tryharding . You can always just accept being casual in a competitive game , thats where most of the playerbase is anyway.
most people dont care about leaderboards, but everything else yeah people meta the fun out of games.
Agree, optimizing income in mmo game are crazy, you play game not work a job
Old COD lobbies were so good, I could play for 5 hours straight with the same 10 people. It made for great social experiences. Now being forced to quit from a lobby and potentially never see those people again, or weeks from then when you forgot who they are.
What was the point of such a change in all online games? Now it makes it pointless to play them, I feel more lonely than when I play a single-player game.
@@stanislavkimov2779 you can make your own lobbies and invite people to game , happens all the time.
Every game has an invite feature and if it doesnt your steam does
You sure youre playing games ? Sounds like youre just busy listening to your own voice
Yes old lobbies were sooooooo good always playing with the same 10 ppl because everyone else is better than you so there is no point looking for other lobby especially in games like cs , quake and so on...good luck finding a lobby you dont need 2yrs of practice to be able to hang with.
Talk about bs nostalgia trips
@@Jaime_Protein_Cannister thing is, you must find these people outside the game and bring them there. In game you only find randoms that are different every time.
@@stanislavkimov2779 you can invite both friends and randoms , almost every game that is online has an online id system and it has been ther for the past 10 yrs or so yrs. In fact you steam shows your what your friends are playing , just message them... jesus
I get invited by randoms all the time and invited to discords and so on , ive gone trough 10 or so groups of online only friends in the past 5yrs ... why do you blame the tools if you dont use them
@@Jaime_Protein_Cannister They're talking about making friends, not sticking to friends they already have. Also back then many people didn't play video games, let alone competitive ones, so there was a good chance that none of a gamer's friends played the same games.
I can't tell if you're trolling or actually low-iq, but on average most people have a similar level of skill, so no, he probably didn't choose to play w/ the same people due to a lack of skill.
You can deny all you want but matchmaking did kill the old "choose-your-server/lobby/room" experience, at least in the AAA world.
This is exactly why PvE coop games like Palworld and Helldivers 2 are popping off. They break the gap between the casual and competitive players and give room to everyone
even beyond that, something like Among Us became huge because it was a casual game you could play with friends. Need more good games like that
@@varietypaulAll Battlefront Classic Collection needed to do was exactly this and it would’ve been great 😂
People will come to treat these like PvP if given even a little bit of challenge. See MMO raiding nowadays
@@stoneodin2288 not really an apt comparison, that's a pvp game
Even hellsiver has their won sweaty/toxic player that angry if u didnt bring loadout they want or kick u ingame even u didnt do anythinf wrong
And this is why single player games and PVE games are so important. The PVP space is overrun with sweats.
yeaaaaah...it has always been abt being the best and ppl will do anything to get there...not sure how ppl dont get it and cry abt it lol...sweats have always been around lol
@@CommentThink not as bad though its gotten worse
@@CommentThink So then tell the sweats to stop bitching about having to be sweaty in games, could you?
The fact is, that while yes, it's always been about competition, it has recently reached a boiling point. 10 years ago you didn't have people saying skill based matchmaking literally made their ping worse or some other bullshit. 10 years ago people were ok with a competitive game being sweaty. Now if someone plays a round of CoD and only comes out with a 1 k/d they act like it's the end of the world and clearly the game is doing something to prevent them from being as good as they think they are. This bitching bout having to try is most definitely a recent development in the last 5 or so years
What makes things worse is the toxic mentality the sweats have. It's no longer about winning, but how bad you can insult or humiliate your opponent or how mad you can make someone. Just look at the number of videos that pop up with they keywords Rage quit. Making other people not want to play is 100% bad for whatever the game is.
game design made sweats become more toxic. Back in the day you'd run it straight with no plan but a direction. Nowadays everyone has a role and when you dont fulfil it, you bring the whole team down.
I know people that burned themselves out in Helldivers and found the game boring after a couple hours because instead of just playing the game and having fun with friends... they had to look up the "most optimal exp farms", "fastest resource farms" etc. You gain nothing from rushing to the end as fast as possible and they ruined the game for themselves by doing so.
meanwhile, farming in games like EDF or Borderlands is fun because it's set into the core game loop. I need to collect all the armor crates, because the Hectors kick my ass and even 10 more armor can help me survive another hit.
100% .. never understood looking build guides on a PvE game
those kind of people say the same thing about genshin. as soon as a new update drops, theylle be looking up farm routes, chest locations, etc, and beat it all in 2 or 3 days then precede to complain that the game has no content. like no shit dude
Yeah and the devs thought of it so: automation defence FAILED.
@@TheWhiteDragonEmperor because the game has no content… it’s the same fucking boring end game loop that amounts to nothing because spiral abyss is east and boring as shit to do.
As Syndrome said "When everyone is super, no one will be"
You sly dog, you got me monologuing!
i stared at the sun for five minute's
Grammar, where is the capital at the start of your sentence?
@@creatorsfreedom6734 Did you go to school? A sentence starts with a capital.
@@Satansclawps3 there you happy?
"If you have fun and are enjoying it, you've already won." That is a GOLDEN take right there. That's the whole point of playing video games. Thank you for putting it so succinctly, my dude.
Real gamers could always have fun gaming no matter how bad they were. Having fun had nothing to do with prowess.
Agreed! Video games are meant to be enjoyed & we're meant to have fun playing them.💯
Lol as someone who works about 70 hours a week. I don't enjoy multiplayer games anymore because I don't have time to try and get decent at any game. So I just stick to single player games
So true. Season passes need you to play minimum 10 hours per week. Plus skill gap, yes. I play Left 4 dead sometimes - 4 players against AI, no season pass, no no-life-nerds. And I play some single player games, of course. But multiplayer is dead for me.
Wait till this phases out, we are gonna be left with a generation of morons who have no clue of the real world.
Honestly? Yeah. Not just streamers but social media in general, feels like everyone is sweaty nowadays because doing well or having a cracked account is a status symbol. Back in the day you could only show off to a handful of nerds in your friend group, but now you can show off to hundreds or potentially thousands of people depending on the platform.
Yup, when I got back to LOL for a two years period, I was amazed by the level of toxicity players had on playing the game as if their lives depended on it. I tried my best to talk about enjoyment in game (as the name suggest: game) but yeah, for many of these people, it was either hardcore escapism, a way of proving themselves they're worth something or hardcore gridding in hope of getting a job in the field which would be way better than any bs job this world has to offer.
Social media has tainted everything.
I would so love to go back to the world we used to live in before Social media.
Social media also exposes people to a constant stream of the top players showing off to them. It's hard to just be happy with your own meager results while being showered in reminders of what those at the top can achieve.
What does sweating mean aside from the perspiration?
I think the most fun part of a multi-player game is like the first tens of hours between friends when you all have started at the same time. It's what I missed about local multi-player games that don't exsits anymore.
Ye, and I don't think this experience is exclusive to videogames. Any sport or activity irl you play with friends feels good and casual.....but, you start playing against people outside of your friends and suddenly it's a real competition. Same as going to an arcade, whether it's videogames, bowling, air hockey etc.
Which was the reason why I like Helldivers 1. It was a non-party PS4 game that I could play with my friends locally.
So true that's y I hv been trying to find PPL to play terraria modded with who haven't played it before but no luck
this is exactly what i absolutely loved about Destiny when it first launched. it was such an amazing time to be at the very beginning of what would be an amazing franchise for the next 5yrs.. my best friend and i that met on mw2 reunited after not playing together for a year and damn.. it was so fun grinding strikes and playing crucible back then
@@vulcanz1327I'd be down. Haven't played much Terraria since I played on Xbox with my brother years ago, never touched mods for it.
An overarching point that I think can be taken from this is that this situation isn’t just happening in gaming. It’s happening in life. Everything is becoming hyper competitive, and people are willing to forgo playing life for the fun and connection between one another for the egoic pursuit of being the best and winning at the expense of others. I do wonder if this is a direct consequence of all our online social platforms and its effect on society.
exactly my thought
Yep, it's like social online platforms have amplified competition for place in social hierarchy. And being better than others at something gives you more points.
My thoughts exactly. It's just a reflection. We want the most likes, the most dps, the most money...it's never ending.
That's late stage capitalism for ya my dude
u all wrong. its cause most people are ugly and can therefore not get a girlfriend so they think i just have to reach this or that and i can get it. but they dont realize they ugly anyway lmao.
That backflip to the lay down pose was actually pretty sick lol ngl
Streamers ruin gaming when the majority of people just copy a streamer's gamestyle so you face 80% of the same builds or playstyles. That is my only major gripe with streaming popularity. Otherwise, the skill gap is about the same in my experience.
Yeah and this happened like years before Fortnite. I remember seeing the change in league when it first came out. And it became more and more toxic because of it.
Gaming has definitely gotten a lot more competitive or "tryhard" over time, though. I think Twitch and Esports popularity has pushed that along since a lot of people want to be pro or "famous" gamers/streamers and I feel that games definitely used to be a lot more about just playing them when I was a lot younger. You always had that competitive community there, but it feels like that is the majority of players these days. There's also a lot more information online about games that is easy to find, especially with TH-cam being what it is and tons of websites dedicated to theorycrafting, builds, or whatever else and that easy access to information will only bring the average skill level up. When I started playing WoW as a kid, I pretty much remember thottbot and that was about it. If you've played WoW since the start, I think you can see a clear evolution of how people used to play games and the direction it headed in afterwards, because it didn't just apply to WoW, but to games as a whole. I might seem like some old boomer ranting, but I've also been through that phase when I was sweating WoW PvP every day with no job back in Cata until BFA so I understand it.
Uh you do know the majority of people don't watch streamers right? Also, strategy guides were a thing way before streaming was really that popular. The reason why you see the same builds, is usually because that's the most powerful. What, you think the majority of people are going to intentionally handicap themselves just so you have a different opponent to fight? No. Obviously streamers might have an impact in making a certain build more popular, but that's not really because of the streamers, it's because players use that build and then other players get rekt by it, so then those players use that build and so on. Same goes with strategies, let's say a streamer finds a super op spot to camp in tarkov. Well players will copy that, and then other players are going to copy them. If you take streamers completely out of the occasion it will still happen because of strategy guides, and if you take strategy guides out of the occasion it will still happen just a bit slower because players can only find it out from other players or their friends. And this is all assuming the person doesn't find out about it themselves, because almost every person who played elden ring instantly realized how powerful bleed, dex, faith, and magic are, it didn't take streamers or strategy guides it's just obvious, unless the player didn't interact with those builds at all.
people meta copy pasting isn't the problem. even meta builds have their weak points, and can be exploited. especially if enough people adopt an anti-meta build/style/etc. the problem is when the gap between all possible meta potentials is so great that anti-meta builds cannot balance the scale.
that^ is when competitive integrity is diminished.
i've lived through enough games/genres over years and been part of meta shifts (caused like 2...which is nothing), to know copying meta builds isn't the problem at the core. because if meta builds have the potential to be checked, players can hold the potential to balance the "meta". there's a huge responsibility on the rule makers (devs/studios) to be careful when balancing mechanics/data and/or introducing new variables into a game (assuming its competitive).
It's just human nature to follow like sheep, safer as a group as the outsiders died.
That kid doing the backflip into that pose was amazing. The second flip even looked fake because of how perfect it was.
Was just about to say this. That emote is impressive irl
Hopefully, he doesn't break a hip or something doing it.
The reason games like WoW Classic wasn't as fun as it was when it released is the fact there are all kinds of step by step guides, addons, and videos all over the internet about it before it was even re-released. What's the fun in it when there is a few meta builds and you're trash if you don't follow one of those builds.
That and if you don’t follow the meta, you’re trash and consider uninstalling and good luck getting into guilds that are gate kept by try hards going for dps meters and congratulations player base, you played yourself
Wow was always this way since 2005 if you wanted to push mc and beyond. Eg. If you wanted to Seal of wisdom 1h as paladin, or literally anything besides cleansebot from the back it meant insta-ban. Pure balls.
Just dont use it and it will be fun for you. This is simple. I didnt use any guid and i was so bad but i had a very good time. I use guides in retail (sometimes) if im trying t olearn something faster but thats all.
@@troybilkoI'm one of the players who goes for min-maxing dps and such, but never supported trying to impose it on anyone else. I enjoy playing min-max in games like WoW, but only for myself, because I like to learn classes/weapon classes/whatever it is in games to their fullest.
Only ever looked for fun guilds that were competent enough to kill bosses and willing to learn how to. Ran into that elitism in SoD and it was frustrating/sad to see how crazy people were about nonfunctional gearscore addons, having BiS, etc. when the last several weeks was just everyone summoning Yetis to clear the raids for themselves in P1. xD
@@Sunless1337 ruined my wow classic experience. It just snowballed out of control with all the bots farming the materials you would need to keep up with the parses and from there, the toxic player base was too much. Classic became a 4/10 experience because the majority of the player base bought into the meta. I had guild mates telling me how good bots were for the market
I'm in my thirties with two kids and a corporate job. When I play apex legends I feel like the NPC guard in someone elses main story.
I used to play COD 4. Now I don't touch PVP as I'm in a similar situation to you.
@@deanoc1530same. I do some sim racing, but that's about it
I swear I’m one of 12 people who have never hit pred at some point. 75% of my games I’m dying multi time Preds. And the other 25% is 4k 20bomb masters
sounds like a skill issue 😂😂😂😂 get better kiddo @@bravetitangrizzly
Ha. You get farmed both in the game and irl!
This is what happened with Street Fighter 2 in the arcades in the early 90s. Lots of people wanted to try it at first, but the top 5% or 10% of players played it so much and got so good at it, new players stopped even trying to play because they'd hate to wait in line to play just to lose in 10 seconds to the pro that just knew all the combos and could end you in 3 moves without you getting a hit in.
Also while Asmongold is right about meta being meta? No. In order to break the mold you have to break the meta. It's why guys like Daigo Umihara is just a monster in Street Fighter. Perfect Meta Player who knows how to break the Meta just to win the match. One mistake is all that's needed in Street Fighter. Well for competitive.
@@thegreatbeavers lol break the meta
@@calib5518 Breaking the meta would be a niche counter pick or strategy opposing the meta strategy
iono man i do just fine picking low tier characters vs top tier..
Yeah, I used to be an arcade rat back in the day playing SF2, Samurai Showdown and Soul Calibur and it was sad to see top players just sit on a machine destroying anyone and everyone that tried to play against them for literally hours on end and often even being toxic about it. I used to as a rule of thumb, throw the first game and give the new player tips if it was obvious they weren't already a master at the game. The worst was when it was a little kid. It costs money so you can't keep throwing the match but it always felt kinda wrong basically taking that kids quarter.
It meant if you weren't already good at the popular fight games you would never get a chance to learn and get good because there was always a top player sitting on his throne destroying any newcomers in seconds. Also, even though I was one of the best players at the local arcade, it still sucked playing that other top kid because he always played freakin' Ken or Ryu since they were the meta back then. Where as I liked to rotate through most of the roster, he always picked Ken or Ryu every single time. (They had essentially the same move set back then.)
So in the end it would inevitably be me fighting that same guy and having to pick Guile or another top meta character just so I didn't get wrecked. Even when you are one of the best players in your little pond you still get stuck playing the freakin' meta. Even back in the day.
The main issue with ranked mode games is that they want to incentivise grinding and just playing the game more. This is a way they can sell more skins afterall... The result is that smurfs can hang out forever in low ranks just by throwing occasionally.
Dude... the hardest rank in every game is the bottom rank. Just riddddddled with rank tanking smurfs.
what kind of games do you play where you think thats the case? and even if, most games have performance based rating so literally just play better and it doesnt matter if you have smurfs in a lot of your games
you're being dishonest and that's pretty shitty of you. you have to throw 50% of games to stay in the same rank. how is that "occasionally" throwing?
@@Alex-h3c4j It's not the smurfs smurfing. It's the smurfs actively throwing to maintain that low rank. At the absolute worst of the worst bottom barrel newest of the new player level of matchmaking... most games actively try to push people out of that rank. It's supposed to just be there for a few games so people can figure out basic mechanics of what's going on. "Let's just play a game and see if we can pick this up.". The bottom rank is supposed to be for that. People have to actively throw to stay there, they have to tank their account hard. They do it to offset the video clipshow of them getting 100kills in a single match when they are playing against people at that level. For that one performance and stay at that rank they have to throw multiple games ruining things for everyone.
But that's the worst lowest rank. In general ranking ladders are shaped like bell curves. If a game has 5 then ranks 3 is going to have the largest population of people. Games that report population ranks show this. The rank right in the middle is always the biggest. So if a rank 5 player wants to smurf on rank 3s hard they're going to have the same problem I just explained. To win that hard every now and again to show how awesome they are for the content they have to throw a couple games too. It's not as bad for the number they have to throw for the bottom rank 1. But they still have to actively play badly in 2-3 games for that performance and not get promoted out of rank 3. And if you play a game enough you can tell.
Oddly, something similar happens at the absolute top end of competitive games. An example of that is LoL. Which I haven't played in years but it was in the gaming news. If someone wants rank 1 in Challenger... which is the highest level of play... the only way to get there is Win Trading. Players conspire to be on opposite teams for a match and then one of them actively plays badly on purpose to boost the win rate of the other player. How bad is it? Last year the top spot on every single server was a known Win Trader... which is why it was in the news. Anyone in the top 10 for a region got there because someone else actively sandbagged.
Games are more likely to be ruined by sandbaggers actively trying to lose than smurfs. At the low or the high end.
Thats human nature , accept the fact that most players are willing to put in more effort and even more so kids specifically are obsessed with games and have the time to do so.
Without ranked you will never find a fair game , because almost everyone else is interested in gaming more than you
If youre playing for fun result of the game shouldnt matter
Loosing is fun , take rimworld as an example
This is exactly why Halo 2 & 3 ranking system of 1 - 50 is Goated. It separated the casual players/noobs and the competitive/experienced players. It was perfect.
Still think it wasn't incredibly difficult to get 50 in Halo. The skill ceiling has definitely increased to unthinkable levels. With Onxy ratings in Infinite really coming down to ping difference. It's unbearable and caused me to stop playing ranked in Halo (The only game I've ever enjoyed rank on)
Rank 50 halo 3 was easy. Equivalent rank in halo 2 was about 30-35. Rank 40+ in halo 2 was godly or cheater
@DPH_Psychosis those bloody halo 2 cheaters it was disgusting loading into a game stuck in some object and getting killed and losing my 40 rank over and over **** those guys
@DPH_Psychosis I managed to get comet rank for a fleeting moment, then quickly deranked back down lol. Win 20 games in a row, lose one and rank down, but it was a perfect ranking system. Back in my gaming prime haha. I feel like I'm worse at video games in my older age as well. I was 16-17 for halo 2 I'm 36 now, feels bad haha.
@DPH_PsychosisSo true, over 40 everyone bridged for host so they had host advantage and could kick cheaters by blocking their ip on zonealarm lol
Online games arent games anymore.
They're competitions.
Singleplayer 😎
I’m 43, I’m a Dad, and I totally understand your ego point. I loved Dave the Diver last year. Pick it up, play, walk away. Any survivors games. Gold to me.
I played Valheim on a solo world recently. It was a nice chill experience.
Using grenades/grenade launchers/rocket launchers/explosives and shotguns of any kind against sweats in fps games is incredibly hilarious
Sweats when you start using a loadout for fun: 🤬🤬🤬
What are sweats?
It’s the best. COD mw fast swapping to RPGs was the best
Tonfas and riot shield ftw 😂
Yea except in destiny 2 you have to kill them to get heavy ammo just to use a rocket launcher… and you get 1 single rocket. If you’re lucky you’ll hit someone before you die…
I love the game, but cannot play PvP.. it’s just stupid.
The PvE is incredible though
Sweaty players are one of the reasons I stopped playing most online competitive games. I stick to mostly co-op shooters, RPGs, some survival games now
Competitive game are meant to sweat tho, thats in the name.
@@Keiser-h4zhe prob means the casual modes of those kinda games.
@@Keiser-h4z competitive games are played like they're on rails. There is close to no off meta plays or variation.
@@GoalOrientedLifting yeah its just sheep trying to fit in their favorite streamers builds and see if they look cool doing the same thing
@@GoalOrientedLifting not in my games, its full of crackheads on redbull yes but you dont need to play meta to win
On the topic of sbmm, I hate when games force your entire friend group to play at the highest player's level. You end up accidentally bringing your 3 bronze buddies into matches against 6 platinums, so your group always gets curb stomped....
I mean, this has been part of the online gaming space for ages.
Are we purposely forgetting how games have been this whole time or are people really just getting dumber?
The exact reason I stopped the competitive games, and got into Souls-like games. Both the sectors provide challenges. But beating the challenge in those offline games feels way better than in PvP.
Exactly, for me beating a boss in a soulslike actually feels rewarding and I know I got better, beating a sweaty player in an online game just feels exhausting.
easy solution = Smurf
Oh absolutely. I pretty much gave up on pvp gaming and more or less only play FFXIV and Monster Hunter now lmao
@@TheMachine3165 beating a boss that was designed to be beaten < beating a player
Stop pretending and lying to yourselves. The reason you guys choose SP games over MP pvp is purely skill issue.
While they're a lot of fun in the short term, the multiplayer stuff is a bit soulless, you, mostly, either win 30 matches in a row or you lose and get annoyed. Wining just becomes meaningless and there's only a reaction when you lose.
It's not just online. TH-camrs have had a massive impact on some games. They are playing a game for a living 12 to 16 hrs a day and are obviously far better than the rest of the people playing that game. They then complain that the game is too easy and needs to be made more difficult, which affects the average gamer who ironically had paid for the game unlike the stranger or upriver who had probably been gifted the code/game from the publisher.
Precisely, I've seen trashy games be hyped for no good reason, and good games die pretty much because of streamers.
Prime example: Destiny 2. Streamers have destroyed that game and now Bungie is circling the drain all the while the streamers who rely on said game for their financial livelihood are trying to deflect blame, even going as far as blaming the casual players. Which is why they really dislike games like Palworld, and Helldivers 2.
I've also seen the reverse. Terrible players complaining about games being too hard and then the game is made to be baby difficulty. The solution is have a party mode and a serious mode.
@@cordovalark5295Been saying this for years, kept saying it after I came back for lightfall and then left right after. The amount of times I have seen videos/stream from aztec and the like blaming the majority player base is ridiculous.
@@cordovalark5295to be a casual player in Destiny 2. I just like the bow
I have pretty much given up on PvP games. I dont have a lot of time to play and i dont want to spend that time being destroyed by people with a lot more time
Which brings me to the Souls games. My favorite games of all time but I cannot stand the PVP aspect. Never been a fan of MP games in general.
@@TheMeanArenaSouls games are fun sweaty. Not easy but it's not like multiplayer sweat, because the game doesn't get harder if you're not playing. Take a month off you're not years behind.
@@sethiddings7293I feel like that isn’t a great argument. Most games don’t have a massive dedicated player base solely playing that game. At most it might be like 1/4th of the player base is dedicated to the game. Most of the other players are like you and me. Dropping out for a while and revisiting, playing in limited time, playing multiple games at once, etc. I would be curious if you are a console player playing cross platform games? I feel like this was one big realization once I swapped to PC was how much better the floor of my gameplay became. It didn’t feel like I was constantly competing with people who held a significant advantage over me. Keyboard and mouse at least made it feel like the playing field was more level.
I dont understand the idea behind that thinking. If you play ranked or even normal games in e.g. Valorant, League, Dota and so on you will always get matched against other players of similar skill level. Sure sometimes an annoying smurf will be in there, but honestly they existed way before twitch became really big and generally speaking the matchmaking does work decently well, so if you get destroyed you should be deranking into some area where you win/lose around 50% of your games. Of course these things dont apply to all games equally well like for Battle Arenas and so on its hard to have good matchmaking, but generally speaking for most big PvP games they work decent.
So yeah I feel like you should likely be matched against the majority of humans who are just relatively casual players as well, thus you shouldnt really get destroyed, again broadly speaking about big popular games.
It's just not that fun playing with people I don't know. I might as well be playing against bots. I don't get anything out of it except it raises the competition, but it's not really all that fun.
I love touching on the fact that most players of games arent even aware of actually how good the best are. As someone who enjoys fighting games and playing to get better, regardless of winning or losing, its tryly humbling to watch a top player do something you didnt know was possible, and you cant even begin to comprehend how one learns it, let alone pulls it off in a match against another top player
From the perspective of me: Diablo 2 player. People, generally, are hyperfocused on 'result' of the game, instead of enjoying the experience. People rush through 99% of the content to 'farm' stuff to ... i don't know - to rush through again?
oh yeah..that's so true!
I have often had this discussion too. For me it's still (after 30 years of gaming) about the experience IN THE games, not about achieving any goal.
My goal is to experience not to achieve anything!
some (most) people just wanna be better than others (or better than most average) quickly.
Yup single player games are not exempt. When D3 launched players requested/demanded that inferno get nerfed, bc I guess they were losing sleep over not 100% it and moving on with their lives. Killing Diablo 3 times wasn't enough. It's never enough.
Lol yeah, back in 04 I was 14 and D2LOD was my first experience with that. People rushing the game then running Baal constantly, after that repeatedly running the countess or Mephisto or the necromancer. But that was nothing, because like half a year after getting into D2 online, I went to high school and became friends with competitive gamers with SS Brawl. I didn't realize people where that good at games. So right when online gaming blew up, I was all about single player games, mainly Morrowind att.
One friend, true Diablo fan quit Diablo 3 on the spot when he saw the auction house's effects. Moved to other similar games, but in general wrote Blizzard off.
The other friend made money off the auction house to buy a new pc.
I'm going to show my age here, but this isn't new at all. I used to play cs 1.3-1.6 with friends and the guys we ran into were all league players who were sweaty. If we ran into people who couldn't bhop all over the map and quickscope accurately and if they didn't know all the proper smokes and pop flashes etc. they stood no chance. If anyone is old like me you'll remember cal, the ranks in cal for teams were open/intermediate/main/premier/invite. Even the decent cal-o teams would have mandatory practice 5+ days a week.
This was nearly 20 years ago at this point. Players have been sweaty forever, thinking fortnite started it is because you were at the right age at that time and you think everyone was bad before then, and you are wrong.
Very true. People that play games based on how an over exaggerated streamer and then wonder why they aren't having fun or aren't as good...
It's like copying someone's homework. Learn nothing and doesn't prep you.
I remember giving up on competitive cs after loosing a local tournament to a clan that had custom keyboards/shirts/cap and mouses 😂 Our strat was crappy and all but i remember me and guys going "yeah f this lol i prefer enjoying the game than doing tournaments and becoming like those guys" 😂😂 its been a while maybe 20yrs but it was such an eye opener
also a lot of people cope by saying anyone that beat them is a tryhard w no life
yeah bro, cs was a sweatfest as well back then, first time i heard about clans and going pro in an e-sport. Also don't forget Warcraft 3 and Starcraft. There's a reason LoL came from a Warcraft Mod.
Hah this is accurate. I was a hardcore sweat in Quake 2 back in the day, still play GTA and love hunting griefers. There's just more people online nowadays and it's more accessible, used be that you couldn't even play MP games competitively unless you had access to a T1 line, which I had at work back in '98
This is why I’m excited for single player games. I’ll play war zone here and their but with all the cheating and try hards I never want to play an online multiplayer game
The problem with warzone is that they sell the bullshit multiplayer every year and they made it in a way that you need to grind the multi for weapon attachments because there is soo big gap between the ground loot and the loadout weapons.
The problem is you, you will believe anyone is a tryhard thats better than you.
Wow so mad. I see the real problem. And it’s not me 😌
@@jaquesesmiley5465Yes you are the problem. People who complain about tryhards are man children or losers irl. They treat gaming as a form of escapism and want to at least be a winner in a virtual world, since they aren’t a winner in the real world. So when they’re getting sh*t on by someone better than them, they don’t get their dopamine hit and they get angry and frustrated. Calling the better person a cheater whether or not they’re cheating, or a tryhard
@@Beanskiiii oh I guess your right then. Sorry we don’t agree what perceive as fun. Atleast I don’t waste my time on a game that isn’t fun to me. So again I’m not the problem you might be.
People who are good at games get angry at skill based matchmaking because what they do to casuals starts happening to them. They make content all day about sh**ing on people because they are so competitive, but the moment the game actually becomes a real competition they don't like it anymore.
Bro, I lived this exact thing recently. My brother plays cod with some streamers, finally convinced them to try hell let loose. The first match we were all in a squad, took a couple checkpoints, everything going well, streamers were enjoying themselves. Then the cod mindset kicked in and they started charging choke points alone, ignoring squad orders, trying to snipe while running around, blind as bats because they can't function without a minimap or player markers then promptly started talking unending crap about the game. It was all good and awesome when things went well but the second it got hard and they couldn't see around corners without actually leaning around them or snipe and run like Rambo it got ugly really fast. It's crazy how reliant modern gamers are to things like enemy markers and minimaps to he point they literally can't function without them. Not all of us obviously but a staggering amount.
Oh yes. This is what happened to a lot of OW comp. OW is fundamentally a Moba where spaces is the king. Create space, take space, defend space. KDA, damage, doesn't really matter. The better team will win. That is why OW becomes big in the first places, because casual can have fun.
Now in OW2, they want to make OW more of a death match where kills is the one that matters. Not teamwork, not good team coordination. Kills. If they want a game where skill and kills trumps everything, why not play Quake Champions? Oh yes, because they're not good enough.
Sorry but thats not the Point with SBMM. Either you play public or you play competetive - but not both. Public should not include SBMM. Thats what ranked is for. End.
@@Robdiesdas No, because that’s another part of the problem. Complete sweat lords in public lobby’s isn’t fun for any player besides the sweatlord
@@princeofgreece9054 yea thats the reason i stopped playing r6 i think there is sbmm but there are still sweats that run out and spawn peak so i havent played it since it isnt fun that way. I legit try to get out of spawn and just fucking die. now i have to wait 3 min to play another round.
I was playing Sea of Thieves and ran into a ship that had a younger kid on it. He kept asking if we were doing some 24-hour challenge, or some other challenge and we kept trying to tell him we're just...playing the game? I'm definitely one of those busy adults that just likes to enjoy a fun game. I love a select few pvp games but I also find it really intimidating. When I run into friendly people it's great, but I'm not a fan of that 'gotta beat everyone' guy energy.
What's wrong with that kid doing a challenge? Just because you were doing something different doesn't make what they were doing bad.
@@iiPotatoes Maybe get some social skills fam. That's awkward as fuck. Really unsure how you got THAT out of that post. It was pretty mundane mentioning how some people are confused that other people like to just play the game and dink around. It's really not rocket science. Guess that's a difficult concept for some people, so much it makes their teenage-college kid brain go full angst.
@iiPotatoes mate.. you need to work on your reading comprehension
@@davidmoak1219 the kid was looking for an excuse to connect , being in on the same challange makes you alike/relatable.
24h challange in itself is irrelevant
Unironically the "Them kids and them 4rtnite dances" take
Stop being old and out of touch
@@DrPlonk I took it as the kid was doing a challenge and was asking if this dude was doing so as well. However it is still implied that the kid asking that is doing something wrong.
Monetization and Grinding has also killed off casual gaming.
the amount of daily weekly month grinds for a game these days cant invest time playing something else for fun
what bro? you tellin me you dont like BATTLE PASSES? they add so much fun though
@@JimmyPoopsock no.
Battle pass is pay to grind. I quite RDR2 online because of missing out on something. Technically it's was a reason for me to stay.
Grinding is not as bad if you have satisfying rewards for your efforts.
nope, u dont need grind if theres no meta force u to
Personally i like youtube lets plays more than streaming because it allows me to see a game i cant at the moment afford. And then ill buy it on sale 2 years later (average) when i forget most of the lets play so its at least somewhat fresh. However what ive noticed is streamers will all jump on the game of the day, then its a flash in the pan moment, there is barely a variety in content or other games , and then Corpos see that. And make 50 other garbage games that are emulating that flash in the pan moment of prior games .
Then more and more crap gets made .
I also liked information letsplays that can give you background information about something that happen in the game or a development story.
Oh, man. I fully agree with you. I've noticed that lately, I try not to watch any streams, guides, etc., at all, especially reviews. That's just another evil. I just understood that no one can suggest to me what I should play. After I finally understood it, oh boy... There are actually SO MANY different games that I really like. Now, all that I watch are let's plays. That's it. Nothing more. I play a game myself, and then I watch a let's play, to see what I missed, or how another person solves different problems I encounter through the walkthrough. The last game that I discovered for myself in that way is 7 Days to Die. The game was released 10 years ago. And everyone who I knew said that this game is garbage, even recently. But I tried it myself and hoooolyyy. I'm obsessed with it right now.
About 20:00: Absolutely THIS is the reason why "The Elder Scrolls Online" is SO extremely loved by the people. That game is easy (from the beginning till the end, from normal to vet) and you don' t have to get the best armor or so because ALL works good. There are SO many young AND old people because they want to play a good game. They want to have great dialogs, a great story and lot of fun!
If it's so loved why does no one talk about it
Can't even play Apex Legends casually.
Without taking a course on movement/momentum.
to be fair, thats in large parts because of sbmm and the nonsensical matchmaking rules. Like one win every 10 games or the first game every day has to be good to keep you playing
I like the fact apex has a high skill ceiling for movement. Problem is the top strict sbmm for non ranked games.
@@Pr0fila ohh so that's the secret, I never even get to 10 games per session cuz I get tired of dying at the last 3 teams and then immediately get in a lobby of sweats who kill me within the first 5 minutes
This was my experience playing with my brother and his friend. They won't even get in fights they just wanted to win the Battle Royale... And then if we did get in fights I had zero experience so of course we lose. I'd get so bored I just run into the enemy on purpose.
They'd get so mad 😂😂😂
@@butitwasmedioyeah I never win
When i was a kid i played this game called Gotham City Impostars a lot over one summer. I got very good at it to the point i reached 3rd place on the leaderboards for overall score. One day i stumbled upon the top 2, and they would sit under a map hazard that caused damage, and heal eachother for score. Thats when i realized some people arent in this for the fun, they are in it to be at the top, at any cost.
Yeah that’s not playing for fun that’s playing for reputation and titles. Don’t hate the player though or why they’re playing, hate the game.
@@theultimatedisciple7974You can hate both. Nobody likes sweaty tryhards especially ones who are at the point of abusing such a cheap tactic like OP mentioned
dude that game is dead on the xbox :(
@@theultimatedisciple7974 I hate the dumb players for funding the stupid game. Whales are just as bad as streamers and esports.
The hate is 100% deserved at this point.
@@theultimatedisciple7974 ironically thats not how that phrase is meant to be used lol
I've seen a lot of Iron/bronce ranked players in LoL getting grilled by smurfs ''venting the stress'' after they lose in their own rank.
I play Fortnite with my friends from time to time and I hop in a ranked builds game and the person was better than everyone in the lobby pretty much combined the Smurfs being mad they lost in their higher ranked lobby’s is happening more often than it needs to and yet the companies do just about nothing to smurfs.
Haha yeah, every Challenger players I can watch says Master/Gransmaster Elo is the most toxic place you can think off. But when they are Challenger, all of the sudden everyone is polite and chill. It's the grinding system, and society is no different.
In my Diamond games most of the time when there is a Smurf that is 15-0 we just FR or the team just starts running it down so it can end if other people won’t do 😂
low ranked matches are hell because of those smurfs. You get a smurf on the enemy team like 6 games in a row and suddenly you’re fighting to not get demoted.
You even see type stuff in ESO below level 50 bgs. I've seen players go 40-0 the highest I've seen was 62-0. Insane
What ruined gaming for me mostly fps games are try hards,they think they're sooo good(yes they usually are)but it's not fun when they just trying so hard to just win the game in 2 mins.This video is pretty accurate
Now if you're gonna say in just a noob,No.i play games casually like for fun and don't mind losing.But if losing to these try hard,yeah it's not fun
So a couple of years ago Darts was something losers and drunks played in the pub. Suddenly it started blowing up to such degrees that it has full tv coverage in several European countries. Pubs saw their laddercompetitions grow and flourish. And we saw the same there. I play in a league, lowest of the lowest lvl. I go in there just to have fun, meet new people and throw a dart or 2 while doing so. Then you have the sweats who think they have a shot at becoming world champion. Ladder went from 40 people to 70, back to 45. No casual player remains.
The pub team that existed was free to join. You did have to commit to a certain schedule but other than that it was just a night out with the boys drinking and playing darts. Now you have to go through trials, hit a certain lvl and even then you are not sure of your place. The team existed for years, it's dead now. Fights between teammembers, differences in ambitions,... It's dead.
It's not something exclusive to gaming. When there is something to win, a small chance that what you like doing as a hobby could become your job many start thinking they actually could.
It's like bowling, as a kid it was a common activity with friends, now any bowling alley has mostly "league only" nights
Sweaty tryhards can take any fun recreational activity and make it annoying.
Removing dedicated servers ruined gaming. The max you’ll play with a stranger is 20 minutes in a lobby compared to daily on dedicated servers. Having admin privileges was the best.
switch switch boom
Facts. Dedicated servers were the best thing to happen to gaming. Want skins? Make them. Bored with the maps? Make your own. Gamemodes getting stale? Community made mods take 10mins to install. Gamespy shut down? Community made anticheat incoming. EA no longer supporting the game? Doesn't matter it runs on dedicated servers. Medal of Honor Allied Assault is still playable to this day. Why? Dedicated servers.
Dedicated servers really made it. Playing with friends and enemies is much more fun than playing strangers.
@@lemonsquidsec i agree. Nothing like hopping in your favorite server and seeing all the regulars.
Still have that in Ark, and some of them have incredible things happening. Not an FPS though
Streaming has also ruined some games, as developers now only listen to the 0.1% of gamers who are streamers. And then try to balance the game around them. This ruins the game for casual players. They leave the game. Streamers have no one to play with. And after they also leave the game, it is practically dead.
That one is not a streamer thing. It has always been the case that game/tournaments design the rules so that the top players/teams have an advantage.
Curious what a 0.1% player could add to a game that would ruin a casual gamers experience, genuinely what are you on about?
@@Temperans you cant design rules so top players have an advantage lol
Looking at you Destiny 2.
@@notscullytv Simple, systems that can only be barely cleared by the top 0.1% of players
I think the solution is make games meant to be played Casually. For example, old multiplayer games didnt have ranked in the slightest and people made their own competitive.
The main issue is not the match making is that games need to focus on weather they yinna be a sweat game or be a casual party game.
what ruined it for me was, me trying to get into a new world dungeon ive done 100 times, and i get rejected bc im not using meta.
Warning: ESSAY incoming.
problem what we have here is two-fold;
by not using meta or a close approximation to it you either
A: Can't carry your own weight (which is valid if the build you had was really trash which I doubt)
or B: People value their time, just because you've done it "100 times" doesn't mean anything when you are about to join a group that wants to get it done now before the missus starts complaining or the kids needs help with homework. Something that would take 10-15 minutes shouldn't take close to an hour, that's inexcusable.
Now you'd think those numbers are an exaggeration but I play a lot of division 2 and I see horrible builds every single day doing legendary missions that SHOULD take 15 minutes tops. 3 dps, 1 healer or CC (CC being prefered here since rooted enemies don't shoot back and doesn't take cover so they are easier and quicker to kill). We could argue what "reasonable extra time" to clear a legendary mission would be acceptible... half an hour instead of 15 minutes? sure... but when we're closing in on 45 minutes - 3 times the "normal" time (not even a speed run time mind you).... then you start to hear some muttering.
Then after a while people just invite and instant kick or invite, ask if you have a dps or a cc build and then if not kick. But that takes time and finally people stop inviting randoms or matchmake totally because what's the point in filtering out trash for an hour when you could just carry some sorry sob through the mission during that time. Then people start doing them in duos or solo in less than 30 minutes, regulary so no need to even group up any more.
Now it's one thing to not have everything super duper maxed out and another thing to have something equipped that says "I sneezed and clicked at the same time and now this is what I wear", if you show signs of actually trying to follow a cookie cutter meta build (which to be honest isn't a dergatory but rather a baseline to follow) people tend to be more friendly and let you in a group even if it takes longer time.
But then we have to consider C
When asked if you had build X, did you get defensive or were you apologetic or even worse dead silent/afk? Because what we see here is only your side of the argument.
So TL:DR I think it's a mix between B and C that got you rejected.
I mean you don't deserve to play with them.
There is no reason for them to take a chance XD.
yeah haters gonna hate, they don't respect other people's builds anymore because meta is all they can think of
@@AMolinaLamatta yeah call it "haters" for not wanting to waste an inappropriate time doing some mission/dungeon/raid you already have on farm status because someone wants to be an unique and beautiful snowflake that drags the team down.
Try your builds on your own time and with friends, when joining randoms it's usually a crap show, when joining a group "LF1M" try to atleast put some effort into your build because no matter what you're going to be judged and if you get argumentative or snarky you will get the boot. not because the other people didn't respect your build, but that you didn't respect their time -AND your own build.
META isn't a BAD thing, it is striving for perfection, that smooth quick run, adding people to friends lists, playing with them regularly breezing through easy content and working as a team in harder....
If you don't want to be a cog in that group dynamic you can be a circle, square or whatever on your own or with likeminded. NOONE is forcing you apart from you yourself and your inability to make friends in online games.
But yeah, it's much easier to call it "haters" ...
@@AMolinaLamatta then when you're with friends and meta morons try to join or start their trash boot m.....do to tham what they do to you but at least say why as you do it, "we're booting you cus we respect individual loadouts and you don't!"
To add onto this conversation:
Zero Sum is a concept in which one person has to gain just as much as the other person has to lose. I forget where I heard it but when you do the math, the sum total is zero. "Zero Sum is Zero Fun." To get people to not care about the outcome. . . is to remove the concept of games being Zero Sum.
Titan Fall 2. When you lost in that game, you didn't lose, it just triggered an event where the winners were on one side of the event, and the losers were on the other. The people on the losing side had to escape, and the winners had to kill them. Winning and losing didn't matter, it was just about escaping. And if you lost there, who cares? Most of the match didn't matter anyways, and that was the fun part.
I want to say I heard something similar when reading about SBMM. And I think it was from one of the Apex devs.
@@randypeterson6938 SBMM is a stupid concept ON PRINCIBLE. It assumes games are more fun when you are facing players of your own skill level. . . which isn't fun.
Games are more fun when you are qued with fun opponents/teammates. Doesn't matter if they are better or worse than you. What matters is "how" they play the game.
One of the bigger changes nintendo made to Mario Maker 2 is the ability to downvote levels. When you downvote levels, it makes it less likely for other players to deal with it.
Now imagine that system implemented around random ques. "Do you want to que up with more players like this", a simple yes or no question. This gives the player a "Enjoyment based rating score". Downvote or upvote. The system keeps track of if you downvote more or upvote more and prioritizes the one you do less. If a guy who only downvotes players, their downvote rating is worth like less than 1% of what the downvote is worth of a person who only upvotes. The point of the system is to rate a player on how many people find them enjoyable or how many find them annoying, while also disregarding those that only vote one way. From there, it assigns a "score" or a "rating" to that player. . . not based on skill, but on how enjoyable they are.
This "Enjoyment Based Match Making" system prioritizes people of similar enjoyment ratings. Meaning the people who are annoying get put in annoying lobbies and people are fun to play against get put in lobbies with other fun people to play against. So the sweats and the cheaters get the bad lobbies and the casuals who are just here to have fun get the good lobbies. How you treat your fellow players will get you karma that gets you worse or better lobbies.
"+rep", THIS is how you make a good match making system: By making it via player recommendations and NOT based off of skill. Annoying players hurt the playerbase. If they quit cause they get bad lobbies, good.
@@Hadeks_Marow This system assumes that whatever game you are playing has a player base large enough that you can actually find a game with these "fun players" without the search times being way too long.
I don't really understand people having an issue with sbmm on principle. In most situations people dont want to get gutterstomped even when they are playing casual instead of ranked. I could be the most friendly player in the world who doesnt chase metas on dota, but if i get matched against someone with less than 2k hours I will probably crush them and they will hate the experience.
I think the main issue with sbmm is just when it detects rise in skill over too small a period of time. If a game is checking your skill over like 20 games then it should be able to make an informed decision on whether you are in the right skill bracket or not.
@@marklebury SBMM works for fighting games that are 1v1. But that's the ONLY time the systems works. As soon as there's a 3rd person, the system breaks down and fails to accurately depict each players capabilities. SBMM is based on the Elo Rating System designed by Arpad Elo. . . who made it. . . FOR CHESS TOURNAMENTS. It was NEVER designed for videogames NOR any form of system outside of a 1v1 and DEFINITELY not for a casual/enjoyable setting. That is one of the core components of the issue. It was not made for the medium it's used in and the problems because of such are self apparent.
And even in the fighting game example, it does nothing in regards to "good players not trying". A user review would account for such a notion. SBMM and EBMM work on the same system, assigning a number to a player and finds players who are online within a similar number range to the player for the player to play against. The only difference is what that number represents and how that number was achieved.
If no one likes getting curbstomped, then the curbstompper would naturally get downvoted and pushed to the bottom (so that curbstompers get put in matches with other curbstompers) and the people who joke around, meme, not take the game seriously and just have fun with it get pushed to the top with similar playstyles.
The goal of such a system is to aim to emulate the type of experience of playing in private lobbies with your friends. You are NOT going to be as good as your friend. That's not what makes such a match enjoyable. What makes it enjoyable is playstyle and how seriously you take the game in relation to the other player. A casual does not want to play with/against a sweat. The social aspect with friends creates a "social game balance" which is the alternative to "developer implemented game balance" where, when you are with friends, the better player is naturally going to not try as hard as the worse player where both players choose to balance out the scales on their own instinctually. Once again, the goal of an EBMM system would be to try and promote and endorse that social game balance aspect as a means to emulate the experience of playing with friends. It achieves this by users naturally rewarding and punishing those who actively make the game a better or worse experience for them. And this much. . . can be attributed. . . with NO correlation to skill what-so-ever. That's because, unlike SBMM/ERS, an EBMM system is actually DESIGNED for videogames with multiple people in a match. It is not designed for rank-play though. That's where SBMM/ERS would have to stay unfortunately.
When it comes to unranked ques on the other hand, the only people who don't get to have fun are the players making the game unfun.
One of the saddest moments in gaming was WoW HC. I was in a guild with a guy who was a 47 warrior and he had ton of viewers and he was so happy. His toon died and everything goes away. No one wanted to watch him go again, in his own guild people were discussing which streamer to jump to and he was left with basically nothing after thinking he had finally made it as a streamer.
Well yea… cause they were only there to watch him die…
Oooof
😢
So because he made it to lvl 47, he deserves lifetime viewership? Not how it works. Go back to the chalkboard and find another reason for people to click on your stream
@@alexv6213 oh I agree with you, if WoW HC was your entire platform then you were bound to lose. I simply just said it was sad to witness the extreme change in this person.
28:48 Yeah, I started playing fighting games at that age because I didn't have to rely on a sports team. It was all me, win or lose. I learned a lot about competition mindset and carried that forward into adulthood.
I remember being a kid with my dad at the game store to pick up Ocarina of Time for the Nintendo 64. I saw the official guide book on a shelf and wanted it because it looked cool. My dad said no because "what is the point of getting a book that spoils the entire game". And as he said it I agreed because ofcourse it was true. I just wanted it for the looks but I knew that it would be so stupid to have a guide for a game when the point is to explore it and find all the things.
Now, fast forward to now and I was enjoying Season of Discovery with some people at work. We were two weeks from the release of season 2. They were all reading up on which class and spec will be the best. Some of them had re-rolled new characters since the one they picked for phase 1 was no longer the meta. They already knew what talents to pick. They had stocked up on any item that can be handed in for xp and their plan for enjoying the new content was to get online quickly at launch and then permagrind the same dungeon until they hit max. So that they could do Gnomeregan on the second day. Before they did Gnomeregan they obviously would watch a stream of other people doing it and reading up on all the bosses. So that they could one shot it.
I feel like I am living in an insane asylum observing this. People are not just buying the official guide book with every game they play. They read it from cover to cover before they start the game up, so that they can get through it as fast as possible and with as little enjoyment as possible. So that they can then feel superior to the people who didn't.
Right?
Literally defeats everything about the game in my opinion…
What happened to just enjoying a game for what it is… a “game”.
They need to change the definition of “game” these days, cause ppl aren’t “gaming” they’re literally just “grinding”
Honestly, coming from experiencing both sides of this coin between casually enjoying a game and playing it almost as if its a competition (soft speedrun) (cause I do both depending on the game), just let them? You may not enjoy that style but they can. It's one thing when they hate doing it but they keep doing it cause they're addicted to the game, and it's another to actively diminish others by complaining about them when they're seeking their own form of enjoyment without affecting you.
@@plankbroI am a speedrunner. I have been placed relatively high on the world leaderboards in three NES games. I also played for one of my countries top two clans in Starcraft 2 and practiced 8 hours a day.
This isn't about playing the game casually vs "competitively". This is the illusion of competitive gaming, often at the expense of the entire experience of the game.
@@Ymirheim That is how you feel about it, but to others there is no expense. I can sit through a 50+ hour Dark Souls playthrough no guides no wiki just using the coolest weapon I find without any desire for what is OP, and I can also spend 4 hours on a team builder website for a Pokemon game without any intention to PvP. This is solely so I can one shot gyms and random pokemon, which I find to be fun. My experience isn't ruined in either, and if I'm playing an MMORPG, I'm gonna be crunching numbers, looking up the meta cause I want to see those numbers skyrocket. It isn't off some shallow desire to be 'better than you', I just want to see my toon be at the best I can make it. There are extremes granted, like how some do it to show off to others and detest casuals and hate it when ppl dont play meta, and there is the other extreme side, where you find their style of gaming to be offensive to you.
@@plankbroThis is not about everyone sitting down and figuring out which way they will enjoy the game the most and then doing that though. The problem with the always competitive metagaming culture is the opposite. It prevents people from being able to even conceive how they might enjoy the game the most.
It's one thing to meticulously figure out which class and spec will do slightly more dps than all the others and play that because you get a genuine thrill out of having higher numbers than the rest.
It is another to google the best class/spec and then pick that one because you're afraid that if you don't you won't find groups and raids. Or because you will feel like you are a worse player when everyone link the logs after raids. Most people who do this still convince themselves that they're doing it because they just love playing games competitively.
The one game I watched this happen in real time was Escape from Tarkov. Once it blew up on twitch the devs catered solely to streamers and their followers requests.
Yeah, it's really just min-maxing by the devs. If all you knew about basketball or football came from sportscenter highlight montages and top tens, you'd have a very distorted view on what those games actually are and how they should be played.
Collect money quickly after the wipe and run gunblaze everyone in top armor. Streamers have an advantage because the ones I followed played almost all day.
Not surprised that sptarkov, where you can play single player, has become very popular now. Where you can calmly explore locations, and the main thing is use weapons you want, not the ones that effective in PvP
Dayz is another great example. But not on the dev side, but on server owners placating the streamers.
@@cocainym SPTarkov has been fun and it's free with great customization options thanks to mods. It was the most fun I've had on Tarkov since my first few wipes in the long long ago
@@Czar59
Thought I'd go back and try the official PvE, as it seems even the developers have realized that PvE can be liked by the players.
Corporate greed ruined gaming
*everything
It can be both
Capitalism
As well
Gaming isn’t ruined there’s like so many other games that are good. Just because Diablo an old franchise went down hill or Activision hates you. That’s not games in general.
I got into building gaming PCs back in 2019 when I was 29 and im still doing it and still playing games. But I have definitely found that I went from 4-6 hours a night down to 2-4 hours, maybe 3 nights a week if im lucky. And im almost 34 and can still keep up with younger kids. It can get annoying sometimes but it’s all good.
I think the problem with gaming is multifaceted:
1. Battle royales is a self canabilzing style of game. Before it was team vs team in shooter games, now it’s your team vs 20 others. How can you ever do SBMM with over 100 players at the same time versus the past with 4 v 4. I had multiple 50s back in Halo 3 and I can say without a doubt that Platinum and above in Apex is 100x more sweatier.
2. How games make money now with live service: live service games incentivize people to win more or less and it’s all about player retention now. The levers these companies can pull depending on how much someone purchases can change the experience. Would you want to give a whale spender easier games to keep them hooked?
3. First person shooters have been out for 20+ years. Think about how some of us have been playing games longer than these kids have been on this planet. Hell we’re playing the same game as these kids on older generation consoles that are older than them.
4. Information and content for these games are everywhere now compared to back in the day.
5. Ability to make money in gaming has made it even sweatier. I find this minor but people do mimic the play styles of top players.
Overall all of these things combined have turned FPS games and others into a cluster of difficulty spike and why everything is so damn sweaty.
your number 4 is often underrated I think. Back in the day there were no YT tutorials. I too catch myself looking up a guide when I fail multiple times. Only recently I try to be aware of that and withstand that behavior. Back in the day optins were much more limited. Try again an again over multiple days (Driver 1 - Garage). Visit a friend who is better or has better knowledge. Or buy a gaming magazine with tips and tricks ^^
Great point skill based matchmaking how does it work in battle royales.
The idea of normal skill based matchmaking team vs team or 1v1 is to get you go a 50 percent win rate.
With apex your accounting for 100 people of different levels is it a average rating but then surely it cant ever be a fair chance.
Then you have the even more complex questions apex and other battle royales need to answer rating. Survial in battle royales simply should never be as effective as either killing or winning.,
Points need to be Last standing > Kills> time survived.
So in apex you can have a problem because the gsme promotes ratting so much you have 0 reasons to learn positioning movement or gunplay
Your number 4 is really on point. I played baldurs gate 3 from release and unknowingly kept googling stuff like "how to complete a quest" or "best built for...". Because it was a new game there was no content for the stuff I was doing. Because of that my first playthrough was the most memorable. I didn't know what was ahead of me, I just tried something out and after some time I arrived at the right conclusion. I know its not the same comparing online gaming and single player but the concept still applies.
People nowadays just copy the "meta" shit and everyone just becomes Buzz Lightyear from the toy shop scene thinking they are doing something unique while literally just copying experience of someone else.
Sadly gaming is not about fun anymore, but rather achieving something that someone else has achieved.
1 + 3 will be a big issue when the players of today get to my age and their reaction time starts increasing.
As an old school gamer who started with NES in the late 80s, I have never enjoyed online games because it the full time gamers or sweaty players who sink insane hours into mastering the game. I prefer co-op /PVE to competitive play as the goal is beat the game together rather than against each other /PVP.
15:40 | On the topic of skill based matchmaking, Overwatch is probably the best example of the worst SBMM. It doesn't try to measure your overall skill and rather sets you into only two categories, either you lost your previous match or you won. Depending on your win:loss ratio it will try to put you in matches of people where if you win, you will be put with teammates who have been losing a lot recently, and again opponents who are set to win. It tries to even out the win:loss ratio rather than let you just be good at the game. In Overwatch 1 I was in Diamond with a 4:1 win:loss ratio, and I am still paying the price for being good to this day with weeks where I lose 20 games in a row over the course of multiple weeks. After I got a 10 game winning streak in Overwatch 2, I then proceeded to be matched with Top 500s and lost 50 games and won 10 in the same month.
Overwatch is the reason why it gets noisy in my place with my raging Bro but he just keeps playing it.
Same with Tekken.
😕 Talking about some "Fun" games - more like mental.
Makes me moody hearing it, too.
This seems more like CBMM (Connection-based) with a lower population pool. It can even be lag at play, depending on the game's server architecture.
Alternatively it could be VERY loose SBMM and you are stuck between categories (ie game cant decide which rank you are). Again this is happening of low population.
Before you ask for SBMM, i will say that it is preferable if you win some and lose some. With SBMM every game will be a slugfest, even if it doesnt appear the case.
Because of Overwatch has control/capture points and the defending team can hold those points, you may die attacking it (thus having close to 1 kill/death ratio) but in reality that system will lead to more blowouts, because the attackers wont risk deaths and just let the defenders win (or even mass quit if they are clans). So you will definitely feel frustrated in that case and you might even wish for CBMM to reappear.
Why play ranked over quick play in Overwatch at all? I tried a few times back in the OW1 days, and it was the same as in quick play. Since then, I have never moved from quick play, and I play for fun without overpowered comps, etc. And I don't care if your hero counters mine. I will play my big boy Cassidy anyway lol
The solution to sbmm is adding ranked play. Then leaving sbmm out of casual play. Then when you wanna sweat. You can go get sweaty. You just got off work after a long week. You can go play casually.
Back when i enjoyed Overwatch 1, i had to first suffer trough losing around 100 ranked matches in a row before the system recognized my skill level. It was torture to constantly get wrecked and have the team complaining and reporting me after each match for beeing bad. It should not be like that to get to have fun in a game.
The tryharding is also making the cheating problem worse if you think about who actually ends up downloading cheats.
Exactly
"Who actually ends up downloading cheats."
The people who are upset that others are better at the game than them. 😂
How many mods are you running in Fallout? Sounds kind of meta to me. Mods just work better in PvE where it's supported
@@metallboy25some ppl make money off of selling them
@@metallboy25That's one third. One third is people mad at the sweats.
One third is people fucking around and having fun (seen most commonly in games like Dark Souls, where you can do some really goofy shit with cheats).
The final third is people who are already good but want to reach the top for free. This phenomenon is just exclusive to competitive games either; cheaters in speedrunning always fall into this category.
Play offline games and all problems are gone.
And stay off your phone
@@justinb8297 you better calm down. If you are too salty about this, trying to be better at a game is actually a good thing.
I love slapjack
Single player solves every problem mentioned here. I never understood the need to chase something that mean nothing. Play for yourself and just to have fun and every problem mentioned in this video goes away.
@@nushia7192why you trying to try hard the comments
Makes me think of the original Warzone. Everyone was playing due to COVID and were just having fun. Within a few months it became all about “meta” weapons. Suddenly, everyone is running the Grau and then next Season everyone is using the all black Roze skin.
When it first came out, you saw people using all the guns. People were just having fun and exploring the sandbox. It felt so different in such a small time frame.
I think the thing that kept games pretty level back in the day was that the skill gap was essentially limited to how good your aim was and your left, right and jump movement. (Think Halo 2/3) Now there are all these fancy mechanics like slide, sprint, clamber, lean, etc. Games should have casual playlists that limit all the extra stuff you can do and bring it back to the basics then add all the extra to ranked.
Bad idea
@@Killjoy.Z I see your point and the original commentor's point.
We wanna play games to relax, and a non-competitive playlist would be the perfect place to do so. But restricting movement mechanics (which you do the entire time you play) would entirely taint that game.
We just want less sweaty bullshit, and perhaps a less complex game!
Well in general youre right. As far as button pressing modern games have way more options, and they take time to get good at. And until you put in that time youre gonna be slaughtered by those who already have, and these days thats many people. Comes down to the time to proficiency. The more buttons or options available to utilize, the longer it takes to get good. And if the options are vast, then those who spend their lives on a game will have a huge advantage over those who play casually. Which is fine, except when theyre lumped together because in that scenario, avg joe, or anyone not a high level button pusher, has no chance. Lower the options, then hey it won't take as much time to reach a competitive level in that particular mode.
Yeah, everything is about that grind, this is why I love PvE and Singleplayer games. Playing alone or with friends, just having fun. PvE games like Left 4 Dead 1 and 2, Deep Rock Galactic, etc., and now Helldivers 2.
One of the multiplayers that I still play to this day (not regularly tho) is Team Fortress 2, because it is the last bastion of the old ways of multiplayer shooters (you can join and leave when you want, there are ppl memeing, there are ppl trying hard, there are ppl just having fun, etc).
Pvp is slowly dieing I know it is
@@a-animal1206 It's definitely becoming more a niche, that's for sure. Like you are either a PVP tryhard sweating over every match, or you're into PVE.
What ruins online gaming for me is losing my skill I used to have. Life drained my skills as I stepped away from games and it genuinely makes me frustrated.
Bro just to let you know, you are probably not any worse than what you used to be bruddah I promise. Its just that the generations that inhabit video games are much more prone to cheating and don't care if its them actually doing things. I promise you bro the statistic is literally like 1 in 3 people are cheating.
Not as many hours to dedicate to something BUT you can still be extremely good if you put the work in if limited.
I can relate lol. Hey at least you can say you’re living your life. To me that’s what matters
I used to feel the same way cause when i was younger some of my selfworth was tied up to how good i was at games.
Left that behind me and now i'm okay having a good life and mediocre gaming skills.
I just moved on to making art mostly. Not because of *online* gaming, but just naturally wantin' to do somethin' else.
What ruined gaming is instant gratification. Ppl are satisfied/happy to see streamers win and it’s exponentially more satisfying when there are ppl who intentionally try to stop them and they’re happy whether or not you win or lose.
Smurfing fundamentally cannot be taken away or punishable bc every aspect of it is part of the game. Ppl need to climb, ppl need alt accounts, ppl have to play, ppl want to play other roles, etc… games combat smurfing by moving them multiple ranks at once but they still need to play to move up.
I really relate to this. I’m watching this at 2am, on a night shift. I’ve got a wife and kids, working rotating shift work. I really only have time to play on my days off after the kids have gone to sleep. Like, a handful of times a month. I literally don’t have time to even learn how to be a sweat. I’ve thought for a while now that streaming ruined gaming.
Can't say when it happened. And I was pretty competitive myself. I'm a big Apex legends fan. Made it up to masters and I barely scratched predator. No streaming of the kind. Just wanted the rank for me. But after some time. The time I grinded, the mismatched teams, the losses, and frustrations. I out my controller down and asked what I was doing getting all worked up for. Then I saw sales on different games. Xcom, metro 2033, star wars jedi, doom just to name a few. Something outside the same multiplier games. Dude, the shift from being the best to just having fun was eye opening. Now, I'm happy to get on the console after a long day and get through a mission I started before I left to work and I was looking forward to get back home to play. Felt like a highschooler beack in the COD BO2 days. Damn, what happened? This video really does explain a lot. Sad to see how it all turned out
2 days ago I played ranked Apex. I literally had to get off and take a break because in a game where I carried the whole game, a guy mic'd up and yelled at me because he died to ring because "I didn't ping where I was going", "I was using Mirage to run away from fights and just picking off their kills.", and "I didn't wait on the edge of the next circle so he can use his Newcastle ult to move over to me." Like...He had 1 kill and 300 damage. I carried him to top 2, and literally couldn't focus on killing the last squad because he was more interested in screaming about how him dying 3 times during the match was my fault.
And before that I had two guys kill themselves and refuse to play with me because the first game I was AFK, had something important to do, and the second guy was off killing people, doing very well. But as soon as he died, he mic'd up and said "Why can't I get help over here?" Dude. You were killing everyone, you were doing just fine. But now once you get downed now you're wondering why we didn't help? Plus, we weren't ready. He started fighting off drop. I revived them, and instead of continuing to play they killed themselves. These were two different games. I also had one similar game to these earlier in the day.
I don't understand. I seriously don't understand why a random game of Apex gets people so angry they are willing to ruin their own play time just to spite another person for something that was their fault. But then I ran into a guy who was great and we ended up going on a 7 game win streak, so it was worth it but man.
I used to play Apex as well before I got a PC. I feel like over the last 5-6 years, or maybe even more recently, the integration of cross play ruined online console gaming for me. Apex and fortnite were my two most played games and then when cross platform became the standard it was noticeable how much more difficult it became to compete in these lobbies. It seemed like 70% of the players were keyboard and mouse and held a significant advantage over the controller players. Ever since switching to PC a couple years ago I’ve noticed a significant difference in the floor of my play on games like Fortnite. I’m not amazing but I no longer feel like a JV high schooler playing against NBA players.
Bro we are same, i once a sweaty shooter player especially in apex and consider myself is avaerage to good reaching diamond, after taking toll on my mental with enemy or teammate.
I choose pve game and just thinking to have fun, fk meta or anything i just want to play , have fun, and helping new player if there is co op. Now i playing Helldiver and Granblue relink most time
@dandyshark6094 It really sucks because I don't even consider myself sweaty. I just happen to be really good at shooting and fighting games. For whatever reason, they've always just clicked for me. But I don't take none of this seriously, lol. I be laughing and joking, doing stupid stuff, screaming, all kinds of random stuff, just having a good time. Win or lose. It doesn't really matter.
Then you'll get everyone out of the woodwork, angry and cursing. "You should've done this and that!", "Play for placement! Just sit there!", "It's a team game. You should be everywhere where I am!" Like bruh. Are we really having fun? You just told me to sit and do nothing for 20+ minutes. So we can earn some digital points? No way. This is a sickness 🤣
yeah sadly almost every game now like that, even pve game have their own sweaty, imagine the competitive one. the thing is we need something like for casual and something for hardcore. but it is hard to do because the nature of people sometime hardcore want smack casual while some casual want to get into ranked. not to say toxic one.@@fudge3458
"Joining a lobby that continuosly rolls through matches/maps/gamr modes and being able to join/leave when you want to."
Thats a blast from the past. It was so good.
I genuinely don't get why this stopped being a thing in multiplayer games. When I played COD on the Xbox 360 in high school, I'd stay in the same lobbies for hours, forming friendships and rivalries and just generally having a good time. Now, lobbies automatically disband after the match is over, so unless you friend request all those people, you'll never see them again.
The real challenge for a lot of individuals in todays climate, being able to see things from another individuals perspective. Sadly, it is not because they are not capable. It's because they are just too self absorbed to take the time.
you can see this with people attacking super popular single player games for falling off in population after a while. Its like.. dude this isnt some mtx laden multiplayer or whatever flavor of the season live service. Single player games get completed and people move on, they have a wonderful time and remember it fondly. Thats how it always used to be before these constant crossovers, pay for everything, MTX laden manipulative turn players into payers garbage. They've completely lost perspective on what a great gaming experience is outside of grinding currency, doing the same mindless gameplay repeatedly and taking out their wallets every update.
I think it’s the chain effect of all of it. Streamers, their effect on culture, studios response to it, incomplete products, instant gratification. It all compounds and has the effect we see now.
Or, just hear me out. Some people are just not competitive in nature, but they choose to play a competitive game anyway. And are now complaining that they have to play against competitive players.
😂
If you get good at a job you'll rent and live frugally your whole life, one medical disaster away from poverty. If you're good at a video game apparently you get buy a house, nice watches, millions of admirers and a big group of friends. This is what kids see.
True, same with all the kids trying to copy whatever popular streamers they see.
Online streaming is so hyped focused on winning, progressing the fastest way and finding the best weapon / most abusive weapon to use to gain advantage that it directly and indirectly influenced game designs but also the players themselves. Everything got a lot more serious for better and worse.
This is why I’ve come to love DayZ. Even on console it’s just such a serene experience. One day I’m out for PVP. The next I’m building fires and hunting. Throw a few friends in there and every adventure is different. The people make the game and when the experience becomes depersonalized and reduced down to a rank, it’s empty from there on out.
mp games will never be as good again as they were in the 00s when people just chilled and had fun on custom modded servers in cs, garrys mod, hl2dm etc. Playing css zombie mod on my clan server with all the regulars every day was the most fun I ever had playing mutliplayer games. It was all about funmaxxing
Halo CE was peak
the prime css days were my favorit days of multiplayer in my life.
Ur 27 rn arent you LOL
This reminds me of what I love about dedicated servers like they had in Counter Strike 1.6 and Source. If you joined a server with someone dominating you just went to a different server until you found something that matched your level. I know matchmaking has its benefits but it just has never been as good to me. Plus you end up finding great communities that you can easily come back to by adding the server as a favorite. If I remember correctly, COD 4 on PC also had dedicated servers and I loved it.
This is why unreal tournament was great. You grew communities from irc channels centred around a public server you had saved to your list
@@rogersmith3094 Yes, but I had the same power too, try doing that in League where you get put in a timer if you quit the game because the enemy team has 1 or more smurfs... the CS 1.6 system was way better
Yeah it was great with the original MW/CoD4. That's the last true triple A game I can remember that had dedicated or player-hosted servers. I'm sure there were others, but it definitely died out very soon after that.
Yeah dedicated servers were the best, I could always find a good group of people who played at my level back when that was a thing.
As a 25 year old now, I can say that playing video games back in the day in like felt more like a social thing. I don’t think I ever played games without either someone else at my house with a second controller, or online lobbies. Today, it feels almost like a hassle to set up games with your friends
im 31 , and dude games back in the day was so much more fun , try hards were a thing or "campers" were a thing , now its all set up for campers and playing in a cheesy ass way ,
@@jbjoker18it's these new generation kids it's really bad and getting worse ... Hired a kid the other day couldn't run a shovel
I’m 19, grew up playing gears, dragon age, halo and some final fantasy games, best times in my life
The best matchmaking approach I heard of, in a team game: In 5v5 PvP game, matchmaker has 20% chance to match you as a carry (significantly above matchmaking rating of your teammates). There's always exactly one carry in each team. So quite regularly you experience that feeling of being dominant, while other players in your team aren't too upset cause they are all matched closely, and they get to experience same thing too in different matches sometimes. So it's like 20% of time you carry, and 80% you can learn from your carry.
People should just play what they enjoy. A lot of times you cultivate a skill through experience. Talent is rare and not an excuse. I played super smash bros casually and eventually began hosting and attending SSBU tournaments in my area for fun. I ended up beating a guy who placed in EVO (he stopped showing up to my local after that lol). I played falcon and beat his meta. Find something that works for you and have fun, don't try to be what you arent or what people tell you to be.
I played marth, peach, yoshi and ice climbers in melee and I beat this dude who was a super tryhard zelda tournament player over and over with every character. I always lost to this guy who only played Luigi and he would just do the side missile thing very well timed and that was his only move.
the problem is people don't know what they are or what they want to be. So most of the time they are gonna emulate what calls out to them, which is the tryhard streamers they watch. Critical thinking ain't common place in the youth, much less when it comes to trying to understand one self.
yup thats why i play most of my ps4 games on ps5 with ps5 versions
13:02 having worked as a personal trainer at a large gym franchise, the pickup basketball games happening are littered with guys who played in college and believe they would have made the NBA if “they wanted to” or if “they didn’t get hurt” or if “their coach didn’t hate them”, etc. People get in fights, scream at each other and all that even in low level pickup games.
To add to controller settings, so many "streamers" spam videos of "use this setup to get 99.9% accuracy" and "destroy your opponents with this loadout build" which is so annoying.
They leave out the part where gameplay is rigged on most of these "triple a" fps games and they are getting boosted connections because they influence more people/money.
The worst part is a lot of them flat out suck and give wrong advice
I mean they get a lot of views and it's their job so just cause you find it annoying a lot of ppl watch it and it makes the creator good money
@@gazb2740take your meds
@@gazb2740 or lobbies full of bots/low skill players, special undetectable cheats, the backing of major corporations and power players within the government. MOST major streamers have familial connections to very high up positions of power.. "influencer" is a powerful role and those who hold all the power understand this, its why someone like masongold.. i mean asmongold cant say whatever he wants
I don't think streaming ruined it, I think competition ruined gaming. Companies ruined gaming by making anything and everything without caring whether it was good or not and than on top of that everyone and even companies promoting the first person to do something or adding trophies and achievements. Back in the day I was an achievement whore which means I had to get every achievement in the game and if it was 1000 hours or some crazy number for 1 game I wouldn't even play it.
this is why I like final fantasy games. I can take my time, and just enjoy without worrying about sweaty players
Absolutely
I remember seeing StarCraft eSports in south Korea as a kid and wishing America would have that same kinda attention to video games
Arcades where cool back then because the local group of people you compete against where not the best in the world. Whenever I saw Korean esports I though it was neat to see gaming go more mainstream but I never thought it looked fun to be in.
And at that moment, the monkey paw curled one of its fingers.
Streaming/esports might have propelled it further in that direction, but as a former 12 year old playing shooters before streaming got popular; there were always sweaty gamers gaming in online games
But streaming is what made this sweaty disease spread.
@@ceu160193TH-cam "spread" it well before live streaming was a thing.
True there was always that one guy in the lobby kicking ass. Now its like every other guy is on the same level. its nuts
People were bitching and only looking at DPS/numbers in wow way before streaming became popular tbh
@@AlanRedrew Because of how raids were made. Lack of numbers would result in party wipe and wasted time for many players.
When ubisoft made rainbow six siege and then just continuously milked the fans to this day and not even released a new rainbow six irks me, I want the fun I had playing rainbox six vegas 1 & 2, and all those ranks and customization options were completely free to earn in-game too :( ...I miss those days.
Used to play tournaments in halo 2. Last halo game came out. Played it for a bit, got a little better and thought. "I'm going to start playing ranked." Worked my way up to top of diamond and then all the sudden I couldn't win. I lost 50+ games in a row, literally went days without a win and it wasn't like I was just loosing. We were getting beat 20-50/15-50 every game. Had teammates that couldn't even get a kill and it dropped me all the way to bronze. Quit playing the game and haven't picked it up since.
What? How is that even possible?
I really don't understand. Do you have anymore insight into your experience?
@@matthewmullins4046 i have no idea. I couldn't believe it. It was like it was impossible to kill anyone. Not in a way that they where good and I couldn't beat them, but that it seemed to take way more hit markers for me to kill them. Heroes of the storm and overwatch had a very similar ranking system. If you got to far above what they originally ranked you at the beginning of the season the game would start making it more difficult for you to win. In my case that ment matching you with teammates that didn't know which end of the gym the bullets came out of. Again, seemed to be more than that. Other players all the sudden became much harder to take down
@@tylerandiemichael159 I play Valorant ranked for fun (I'm just Silver, nothing special cause I'm not good at FPS games)... when I was trying to get out of Bronze (I'm better than almost any Bronze player) I would get to 1 win away from ranking up... that rank up game would magically be on my worst map (Breeze) almost every time (8 out of 10 tries) at which I have only a 20% win rate and would ALWAYS have at least one guy on the other team that would end the game with 35+ kills which is an insane kill count for ranked valorant against players "of your level"... games want to keep you running on a wheel like a hamster... if you rank up and are satisfied you might stop playing you see...
Better example... back in 2013-2014 I used to be a pro-level player at FIFA (not a professional, just division 1 and winning a ton of games even at the top)... back then the game was fair, the skill gap was huge if you knew how to play and the game didn't assist you or cover your mistakes... but then they started to cater to the bad players to assist them at "not getting beat that bad"... so what did they do? Assume you're doing a wrong pass and aim right at your opponents defender... the game would do everything in it's power to make the pass go through and the ball would go way off from where you aimed to avoid the defender... you're pretty much not playing anymore, the AI is correcting your mistakes left and right and all you do is button mash... so now people now literally button mash in a sports game... which made me quit cause I didn't care about getting to the top if it wasn't due to skill... the game literally has scripted instances where the input doesn't match the output within the game to make you lose more games if you're good to "keep you playing" since you take waaaaay longer to get to your deserved rank... back in 2013 since in FIFA you have to start from Division 10 at the bottom every year, it took me literally 2 weeks to get to Division 1 and had a win% of 90-95% and up to Division 3 I pretty much was at 100%, can't remember losing a game in those divisions cause I was simply too good for them... but after getting to Division 1 these low rank players would never see me again...
And by the way, this should be lawsuit worthy since it's really messing with people's mental health... gaming companies are causing kids mental breakdowns just to make money... nothing shittier than that...
@@sportschool3537 I also play valorant ranked, 1,000+ hours,peak platinum 3, and what you said is 100% accurate. Valorant is the most addicting video game I’ve ever played. Riot knows what they are doing and it’s intentional. Lawsuit worthy 100%.
I remember the first time urf was released in League of Legends. That was so much fun. Everyone was just trying out builds and having fun. Nobody was sweaty, everyone just wanted to have a good time. The second time was an entirely different story. Everyone prioritised overpowered builds and if you didn't pick meta builds, you would just lose. Players literally optimised the fun out of it.
You didn't play after the first day or your memory is bad. Most of the lobby was just playing sona, zed, ezreal, jayce, kassadin, hecarim, garen, morgana, lux, and maokai by the second day.
@@redridingcape Not true at all, I played URF mode for the whole time it was up the first time, and while it's true that someone wanted to play one of those every game, 4 of the others wanted something else, and so most of the time the team got to play something else. Also, I honestly never remember playing against Kass, Jayce or Maokai. Of those you listed only Lux, Ez and Zed were actually really popular to the point I played them/against them multiple times, sometimes even in a row.
Edit: nvm I was thinking OFA URF. Normal URF I don't remember anymore, except that Heca was busted.
What's up with people nowadays using the word "loose" when implying defeat? It's "lose".
@@Jack_Rakan I hate everything one for all so I have no clue about that. I do remember the first urf though lol.
Arena is the GOAT gamemode imo, there's a meta but after the balance changes there's also anti-meta and dark horse comps that are plenty fine to win with. The lower number of players in each fight makes skill, counter matchups, and aug picks more important than the meta typically. Though aug highrolls are sometimes necessary to get first with certain comps.
@@Desolas_same situation as "their/they're" and "would've/would of"
The problem with ranked modes is not only is having a rank a form of sbmm but then they add MORE sbmm on top of that and thats just way too much.
Honestly as a former gamer since i couldn't play for fun because of sweats, me and my buddies decided to get good at games and then chill so if we ran into these sweaty ass players, we have experience to beat them.
Gaming got destroyed ever since u have a guideline for everything on the internet you have nothing to figure and discover.
But thats why i find it hard to get into Retro gaming , its not fun playing the same level for 3 hours
@@RealBadGaming52
It only takes you 3 hours because you are used to modern spoonfed era.
We'd have to figure out things for ourselves or git gud. It was a good time for gaming back then.
If you grew up with those games, it wouldn't take you 3 hours
That is why I love Skyrim. There is no hurry and I can just run around and explore the open world 100x and every session is a new discovery
I play games for 3 reasons
1. To Relax
2. Experience a different world (Like Skyrim, Space games and Historical RPG)
3. to immerse myslf in a good story like Guardian’s of the Galaxy, Uncharted and Tomb Raider and COD campaighn)
other than DOOM93 i NEVER play a game doe the challenge or to own players online or for a stream, fuck that. Online games…fine with close and thats it.
yeah but skyrim in 2024 is a bit expired sh-t
@@mateigabriel3442mods are there for a reason
@@mateigabriel3442 ?.... Have you seen the modding community for Skyrim? It's insane.
@@mateigabriel3442not rlly, I mean there are tons of people who play old games myself included. If it was good enough for the people back then it is for me and is even preferable to the trash heap that is modern gaming
Shoutout to Asmon on Classic release.... rushing through content as quickly as possible to reach endgame gear, most gold via donations, etc.
Asmon always says one thing and does another.
This video made me laugh with asmon commenting on it. He ruined classic for himself, Diablo for himself and the list goes on
Sounds about right
Who wants to level for the 50th time - Gimme gold gimmeeee!!! Oh Im out of content now whoops.
I remember once during a halo3 tournament, 5th place was 10 bitcoins and 1st place was $100
This also applies to card games as well like magic your gathering. Before the cards are even available the top decks and meta are fairly well defined . You can play 10 rounds and only play against 1-2 decks. It may not be as bad as esport gaming but it has ruined card games a bit.
I've noticed that I literally haven't played multiplayer games for years. Currently the only MP game I play is Helldivers. I simply got tired of not being able to choose my own difficulty. It was so incredibly frustrating to always be playing against people knowing the meta simply because I played better than majority of players.
I would never understand this take. Don't you think that player worst than you get punish when they get match against you ? that's the same logic that you use by saying that you are punish when match against better player.
@@perignontheo9498 Yes they don’t get punished by the game but they will become frustrated which is not a better alternative. Imagine being absolutely obliterated by some sweat just because he used a build that’s give him an advantage. I’d rather be beaten to a pulp by a guy who is actually good at a game rather than some sweaty dude who always uses that same meta build.
Side note: If you wanna argue with somebody online, please atleast learn basic grammar and spelling, and don’t you dare pull the ESL card on me cuz English is my 3rd language so that excuse doesn’t work on me and I’m tired of hearing that shit.
@@LeHarmacist "he used a build that's give him an advantage" Maybe you should work on grammar too lol.
@@perignontheo9498 No? I never felt bad doing bad at a video game because I was bad. Like asmon said it is when it feels artificial that is the problem. If I am playing a game I have never played before, I expect to suck at it, I want to suck at it, because I should suck at it. If I don't suck it is obvious the game is holding my hand and treating me like a child and I have zero interest in being coddled. Slowly working your way up the lobby leaderboards overtime is a very satisfying and natural feeling progression system that serves as a motivator to keep playing.
But when my score feels like a random dice roll because the difficulty is constantly being secretly adjusted on me behind the scenes, that is when I check out. Then again, dude says he hasn't played multiplayer games in years, so if I was in his shoes I would probably expect to suck.
@@LeHarmacist You seemed to understand perfectly fine what i wanted to express. So i don't see the problem about my shitty grammar / spelling. Im really proud of you being able to speak 3 languages..... ? ( By the way if you come from a Multi cultural background in a non english speaking country it's absolutely the norm. And complaining about "Sweat" ruining the fun while being a grammar nazi is a bit of a conundrum )
I still don't understand the point that losing to a "sweat" is a problem. I played competitive game most of my life.
SF6 is my game of choice ATM and i'm am top 0.3% and top 2 finisher in local/online tournament.
Playing a sub optimal character.
If i lose to someone playing "meta" it's mostly because he his a better player and made better choices. You absolutely can play non meta and perform absolutely fine in most game.
I never played a game were the meta was so strong that sub-optimal meta choice were a huge problem.
Also if you like to play sub-optimal stuff like i do, any good ranking system will place you at your current level of play with your sub-optimal choices.
All i see is people wanting to have fun winning against lower level opponent without facing any adversity.
I'm trash now because I played casually my whole life and now 20-40% of the people playing now were kids that have been playing competitively since they were 5 and are effectively trained professionals compared to me because I had a job at 16 and they've had the same job since they were 6, gamer.
"This game isn't for you" becomes "no games are for you" when EVERYONE is becoming the top 1% of SOMETHING.
There are not competitive games/modes in games. If you play online game and you join MYTHIC raid, RANKED game... you better fucking play to win.
@@anonimowelwiatko4455 sweats love to smurf casual game modes to blow off steam, most casuals I know don't play ranked they play modes named things like "unrated" and "casual" and still get roflstomped, now all us old people play games like Ghost of Tsushima and Persona 5. A lot of my friends beg me to play games like Valorant and CS sometimes and when I cave I just feel like I'm donating my time and burning an evening for no reason other to placate them, but they play every night so I feel it's the only way I can spend time with them. I recognize the talent in the game though, it's just not what I would call fun from my side. After a few minutes of getting killed and not knowing why I alt tab to read an article or something while they finish out the round.
I lost a mw3 match bad to a lvl.455 six year old nit long ago.
I generally avoid anything that makes me play with tryhards.
No it doesnt. It becomes "No competitive multiplayer games are for you." You still have co-ops and single player games you can enjoy.
PvE games is the only healing agent. When helldivers came out i swear it was so cool to call up homies and play. Then you knew anybody u meet kinda was hyped to about . Im 31 im sure thats the last ill see of great community in gaming. Now its over lol helldivers kinda screwed it up with the gameplay overtime