How to Set Pinion Angle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Dave has set up around 1,000 ( yes we know that's not 5k :) rear suspensions for drag racers. Here he is going to share a little bit of his knowledge and experience with you.
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The absolute best videos explaining this process in a simple and professional manner. Thank you keep them coming, please!!!
I've built a lot of street and race vehicles over the last 55 years and I have seen a lot of home built suspension that made me absolutely cringe. This is a very clear and understandable instructional. Good stuff!
I am no expert but u-joints do not like 0 degrees. My limited knowledge says 0.5 to 3 degrees for the u-joints and that should match at both ends. The diff and transmissions ends should be parallell. But hey, what do I know...
I am so grateful that I followed Dave 10 years ago and now I have built my own chassis and everything because that man simplifying everything for us.
Thanks dave
0 would be the worst thing you could do to those u joints.
So Dana drive shaft disagrees with you. The say the front drive shaft angle should be the same, but opposite as the pinion angle...now, who's right?
Always great videos providing help for the uninitiated Team Z great job
Great informative video. On that car your magic number was 2.5* pinion angle. What would you recommend for a stock style suspension with coil overs, 275 drag radials and alot of separation ? Thanks for you time and videos
Whats happening here, ‘in theory’, is ‘ok’, if the vehicle has never been bent, twisted, in an accident etc etc. If it has been, ALL BETS ARE OFF!!!! First to say about the six point nut or bolt that the point is facing forward is ludicrous!! Nuts & bolts when made do not have the threads start in exactly the same place in every piece when threaded in manufacturing!! And to look at something and say the rear end is centered side to side or even front to back is ludicrous. Just air pressure in a tire could make tire wider and be off. If off a 1/16 of an inch MOST people can’t see that plus using angles and degrees if you not standing in EXACTLY, in the same position behind the vehicle moving side to side looking at the back it could be off by a 1/4 inch or more and NEVER see it! Just moving your head side to side can make it look equal to both sides. All four ‘tires’ (but we should say rims because you want to align the rims, not tires), could be set to the right side of the car one inch but if the rims are square with each other, in alignment with each other, all set to run ‘perfectly’ straight, that is truly what the goal is. Granted this is racing, but even exotic high performance cars are never EVER aligned with the body by ‘just’ looking at it. Sorry I call it the way I see it! And to say “look down the drive tran to see if it’s straight” is ludicrous also! Your ‘eyes’ can’t see a 1, 2, or even 3 degree or more side to side difference alignment of the engine drive shaft and rear end. Yes up & down you’re using a degree level, but how do you check side to side?? Sorry, again I call it the way I see it, in other words never trust your eyes, it’s all set up with some type of measuring device, from simple tape measure to racks and everything in between!!!
I have the street beast kit in my Foxbody, street/strip car with a drag radial. Sounds like a -2.5 is a good starting point. I measured the stock arms and adjusted the Team z arms to the same length (uppers & lowers) without checking the pinion angle, the rear-end was centered up about perfect, I have driven the car a couple times and it seems to hook up really well.. If anyone would like to reply with further instructions or tips, that would be great. The only question I have is: Will it be ok to do this with the front of the car on the ground and the rear on jack stands..? I don't have access to a drive-on lift or a pit.
th-cam.com/video/jaaTyL099RA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=tk1gYbBQmeQRabcK. Driveshaft angle does not come in to the equation until you have a two piece shaft with 3 joints and a center bearing. Otherwise all that matters is the CL of the output shaft (trans) and the CL of the pinion. The proper starting angle is 2.5 to 3 degrees down on your pinion in relation to your output shaft. Not all vehicles like this "magic number".
Please help me understand!! @7:30 you clearly state you add two negatives, and then say the pinion is physically pointed down. That would make the pinion a positive and the driveline a negative and those you do add together. Correct outcome but incorrect explanation of the math. Two positives or two negatives are always minus each other, One of each you add them together
th-cam.com/video/m2Oxi6PL0XU/w-d-xo.html
That video explains it well.
So you set the car up correct, but worded it incorrectly best I can tell with my limited understanding
If you showed the angle finder reading on camera, it would read negative on the driveline and positive on the pinion itself. Correct?
Every site I've watched have been big on having front and back pinion angles should be parallel to each other unless I missed something there your front pinion was inline with the driveshaft and your back was at an angle
Pinion angle confuses most people. Go find spicers video of driveshaft velocity. That’s what you really need to know
I been looking for a video on this that doesn’t confuse me and this one thus far is thee best one!!!!! He covered every aspect step by step, amazing
Wat to do if there is a 2.5- on the engine and transmission, or should I just focus on the pinion
Just wondering when you doing this, are you putting weight on driver's seat for the weight of the driver ? And does driver weight make much difference for setting pinion angle or not ?
I was taking to my friend that races an 8sec 69 GTO and he said no need for driver weight setting pinion angle, but is necessary setting up an anti roll bar
@@sslavik03 Thanks, yes I've Tried setting up my Anti-Roll Bar with someone in driver's seat, and without someone in seat, Makes quite a difference.
I found this very helpful thanks for sharing your knowledge! I will be setting mine up using your method!
Thank you 🙏 I was having some issues after putting some adjustable control arms on. Now I think I know to solve my issues
What is your angle finder reference? Do you lay it fate on the for post and zero it out?
I can't wait to get my car in there to get a good base setup done.
We love getting new builds in the shop.
Love the vids keep up the good work . What shop light is that . And I wish you guys lived in texas
Thank you!
So why did you mention the 123 block?
I sent you a message on FB Dave, having troubles with my car
You are the only expert I've viewed that says a zero degree angle between trans yoke and driveshaft is perfect. Everyone else says this causes rapid u-joint wear and tear. Most say you want at least .1/2 degree but no more than 3 degrees angles between yoke u-joint and tailshaft and the same between the pinion and driveshaft u-joint. and zero to a max of 1 degree difference between the two u-joint angles. And most preach that the trans yoke and pinion should be as close to parallel as possible. So if the trans is 3 degrees down at the tailshaft, the pinion should be tilted up 3 degrees to be parallel with the yoke. This is vastly different than what you are saying in this video. Which is most desireable for a muscle car for street use?
I wish he would answer this question
@@707tmac that would be nice...
Imagine the Trans - Driveshaft and pinion are all at 0deg. In a 300hp 4 link car your going to push that rear axle up about 3deg positive on launch. So you would need to set your pinion to -3 deg. Now that will give you the best angle for launch. For me I have my foxbody pinion angle set at -2deg from crank/trans angle.
Yeah, you ask 10 people you will get 10 different answers. I agree with James. IMO many people confuse u-joint operating angles with pinion angles. We shoot for the crank and the pinion to be parallel under power, with 1-2* of operating angle on the u-joints.
Believing that the transmission yoke and the drive shaft should be inline is incorrect.
That will cause rapid wear on the UJ bearings.
There should be at least a half a degree difference.
2 degees is better but no more than three.
The trans yoke and the differential pinion should be parallel.
The pinion needs to be negative right? Like you don’t want it facing upward creating positive degree right?
Secondly if I have the rear weight entirely on suspension (jacks under axle housing) do I need to jack up front to ride height or will it all measure appropriately
I should probably go back and square my rear using this method. I just made sure the steering wheel was straight and then measured from the front of the front wheel rim lip to the front of the rear wheel rim lip on both sides or course.😁 it'd be nice to have a lift to do this.
I don't know. I was told that trans and rear end needed to be parallel. And what you did here is make them non parallel. In fact you should raise the rear end not lower it to match the opposite parallel line for the trans. Now I'm more confused than ever. Perhaps I was listening to the wrong people tell me the trans and rear end need to be parallel? Thanks.
Hello, I'd like to know, can I just tighten the uppers arms, then it should be centered then lengthen them to final pinion angle
It depends on what reading you have. If your trying to put positive you lengthen. If your trying to put put negative you shorten
Great video, is this relevant to 4x4 vehicles too?
I have a 2-piece driveshaft in my ‘60 Cadillac .. it’s been bagged and has a vibration 45-55 otherwise smooth as glass . Do you have any videos that will help me setup a corrected pinion angle after installing adjustable control arms and stationary upper stabilizer ? Thanks , Chuck in Illinois
Excellent info, thanks.
Excellent video! When checking the pinion/yoke angle you can grab a the biggest socket you can fit that will butt against the u joint cap then check it to make sure both ends are square to each other and set it on the cap and put your angle finder on the socket. No need to pull the shaft.
2011 Mustang GT has Hi speed vibration, checked driveshaft balance, Trans mounts, bolts and rebuilt rear end, all new bearings and new gear set. Had Vibration before that and still has it. So what should the pinion angle is best? And drive shaft angle? Thanks hope I hear back. Ron
Thanks all good info here
You are calling for 0 drive-line angle on the front u joint??? I thought there should always be at least .5 degree?
78 Zephyr. Ajustable uppers with solid spherical at both ends. Tubular lowers with rubber bushings ( same length as factory) Will use your vid to ajust my pinion angle for sure because I have wheel hop and that might be one cause.. Also....you mentionned looking at the tires to make sure they are centered in the wheel wells. Well mine are totally forward....at least 2 inches if not more !! It looks really dumb. I have no idea how I could fix that. If use the uppers to center the wheels, the pinion angle will change....correct ?
There a video for leaf springs? Without the ability of upper control arms, short driveshaft, and short wheelbase. I'm struggling to find the right pinion angle to relieve some u-joint bind. It's a 64 econoline with a 347 stroker, 4r70w, 9" rear. 1310 u-joint on trans yoke side, 1330 conversion joint on the rear end side. Tried dropping the motor 2", no shims up to 6 degrees of shim on the rear. Bind is ever so slight when releasing gas pedal around 50mph+. Otherwise everything is so smooth.
Not being a full-time mechanic I have some questions. This is for a high-performance street car with leaf springs with Cal tracks installed. What is an acceptable engine angle to start with and what should the pinion angle be or acceptable ranges?
I do not agree with this. The drive line folks all recommend that engine centerline and pinion be parallel under load. You do NOT necessarily want the driveshaft inline (0 degrees) with engine centerline. Likely in the minimal miles on a 1/4 mi that does not matter.
Just one question, you you put your angle finder and put on driveshaft or diff, do zero’d it every time?
The only thing I'm confused about is I always thought you wanted the pinion always pointing downward slightly in the negative?
Ok so my passenger rear tire is around 1/4" closer to the fender lip than the driver's side. Which upper control arm do I shorten or lengthen to try and get perfectly centered?? Thanks for the videos!!
Great video and it makes perfect sense, the way you explain it. Could you elaborate on how you determined perfect center for the reference point. I have a S197 and that is where I'm coming up short. I don't see a good way to find a good point of reference.
Can you please explain more how you got the center mark of the car.
Can you explain more how you found the center of the car with a laser
You absolutely schooled me on this subject and it will be great knowledge for the fox I'm building. 👍👍👍💯💯🇺🇸
Nice
Gets folks in the right range
Way to be man
Chassis tuning basics
Nobody has the writings from Fred puhn anymore
Well explained well done buddy cheers Larrysullivan in London
Thank you!
How would one figure this out in the front end of a new edge? My driver side wheel sticks out way more then passenger side, it’s not the camber something seems off wanted to see how to check, factory k member
Ok so if I have a -2.2 DS angle and a +0.4 pinion then my pinion angle is -1.8?
This is how i've been doing pinion angle since i started racing Foxbodys 20+ years ago.
Wow, this was brilliant! Anyone know of a shop this good in San Antonio, TX?
Great video as usual.
I wish you guys were closer! id lover for you guys to setup my car!!
Where do you take angle reading on 8.8 rear end?
Might have to remove the driveshaft and use the flange, think that's how I did one of my cars.
Following because I just installed an 8.8 in my 78 Zephyr today
I used to build exhabition drag cars. 10 liter and 8.3 liter Arais Motors. And we had a 3 inch thick titanium rod that we put between the rear end and the crankshaft and that's how we would align everything. The cars were faster then the ones you would watch on tv since there were only a handful of guys in the whole country then that could afford to do this without sponsorship.
So the pinion face on the rear end was parrelel to the crank as close as possible for the most power. No power loss to mis aligned parts.
Why not straight aligned with the drive shaft?
Thank you
But what is a good working angle for a street car ?
I don’t agree with this at all.
Please explain why???
Hi, I know this is old but, I have an 89 fox GT and I watched your video and I’m trying to set my pinion angle but, I can’t get my engine at 0°. Its sitting at 4.50° downward but, due to my transmission which is a TKO600 and it’s hitting the tunnel, and I can’t get it no higher than 4.10°. What do I do? Does my engine need to be at 0°?
The answer to your last question is no. He is referring to the difference between the angle of the engine and the driveshaft. It should be between -0 and -0.5..............Allot of people replying to this video misunderstood what he was trying to say.
@@42BravoFoxtrot This is an old post! The job has long been taken care of.
Great! How do you know where it supposed to be if you’re experiencing driveline vibrations?
You have a starting point. You know up it’s not happy where it’s at,and a measurement should point you in the correct direction.
This helped a lot thank you sir.
Poor vidioneed more light to see what's going on
Thank you I have looked for a video that simple on set pinion angle for years
going to do this today! Thanks for the info!
I learned something.
Very well explained, quite helpful
At what points would good to plumb bomb off of in a new edge?
Awesome simple and easy explanation. Thank you
Do you guys have these parts for a 8.8 on a foxbody looking to coyote swap and want that adjustability
Give us a call or send an email to tech@teamzmotorsports.net
Thank you
🔥🔥🔥
Not a t 5 transmission
Good tip on the flats for the hex tube.
Thanks guys!!!
Good tutorial👍
THANKS!
Great information as always. Cant wait to someday build my fox. Got to love the military life. Keep the content rolling on the new channel! Good luck guys
Thanks Nathan we will!
😎 👍 🇺🇸
wish you covered leaf spring setups. nobody seems to wanna share anything on leaf setups.
Call Caltracs, they can help you
th-cam.com/video/Hbu4yQa2kXo/w-d-xo.html
Thanks!
Badass
Is my is my mother goose club out.