that yamaha crossplane makes me wish someone like dodge would try it out in larger displacements for cars. The way things are going, V8's might be legislated out of existence soon so a turbo inline crossplane 4 might be the only way to carry forward the majestic noise of the most correct automobile powerplant format.
Visio, your videos are getting better and better, no question about it. Again I say, I am blown away how you find time to research and put together so many quality productions for our enjoyment and entertainment. Thank you for all you do.
I like VisiorRacer choices of 270 inline twin and crossplane four as well.The 180 degree triple Laverda's they were awesome. The original Triumph Tridents 360-degree crank,with pins at every 120-degrees was also awesome. Retro character is coming back.
The W800 also has a 360° crank, and I'd say it's an excellent choice. I personallty love the 360° crank, because even though it's outdated, its simplicity and primitiveness still give it an awesome vintage feel. Put on a 2-into-1 exhaust and it gets even more cool than it already is.
RJs favorite bike haha. The 315 degree crank apparently gives it the same firing interval as a Harley V-twin haha. Albiet with a LOT more power than a Harley. Fun bit is BMW went with the 360 degree twingle firing order on the F800 simply because it produces an identical exhaust note to the boxer twin haha.
Loved my Yamaha TRX850 which was a 270 degree inline twin. The characteristics of a V-twin whilst retaining the compactness of a parallel twin ...the best of both worlds
Zentäi 289 I know what your saying, it looks like it would be smoother, but a 180 degree inline would only fire evenly if it were a 2 stroke. A 4 stroke at 180 off actually alternates between 180 and 540 degrees between cylinder firing.
The 180 degree twin is considered the easiest to balance and can rev the highest, it is basically a traditional flat plane 4 cylinder cut in half. I'm surprised he didn't have a Ninja 650 in the video as an example, the Kawasaki 650 twin that is used in the Ninja, ER-6 and Versys is the 180 degree design. The twingle is the traditional layout for British bikes ala Triumph, Norton, BSA, etc. BMW still uses the twingle design on the F800 as it produces a sound nearly identical to the boxer twin. The 270 is a newcomer that mostly aims to replicate the sound and powerband of a 90 degree V-twin but with the simplicity and smaller package of a parallel twin.
The French PRV V6 is infamously known from being and odd firing, 90° block engine (it's a chopped V8 design). It became even-firing when fitted with a split pin crankshaft, but can be found odd-firing in early versions, like the one powering the DeLorean.
The same was done with the 225 cubic inch Buick 'Odd Fire' V6 of the early 1960s which was sold to Kaiser Jeep 225 Dauntless), then back to GM who split the crankshaft pins for an 'even fire which eventually became the 231, 3.8 liter. I run a hopped up 225 Odd Fire (Kenne Bell equipped, MSD, lots of carb., fat headers...) in a 'flatfender' Willys Jeep.
The european PRV (Peugeot Renault Volvo) engine from 60's was also 90* odd firing V6. About 80's they started using split crankshafts and it was no more odd firing.
It's not that simple. I heard that the first PRV have some "issues", but they can't be that bad, when they were building them for over 30 years ;) I have one of the last PRV with even firing timing in Peugeot 605 94'.
Tay Tay - I don't know about Volvo maybe you're right, but "the worst V6 ever made" was more probably the 90° 3-litre Maserati V6 in the Merak (also Citroen SM). The Merak installation needs a mechanic in constant attendance if the car isn't to fall prey to the occasional ambitiously driven Capri V6 (same displacement, but solid).
I was about to post the same: a crossplane V8 with a shared crank pin fires evenly, but each cycle has back-to-back firing on each bank. That means at some point the left bank fires twice in a row as does the right bank, raising pressure in the left or right exhaust manifold and causing the burble. A four cycle engine with shared crank pins can only fire evenly if the angle between the banks is a multiple of 720 divided by the number of cylinders, such as 90 degrees for a V8 (720 / 8), 120 degrees for a V6 (720 / 6), or 180 degrees (opposed) or 360 degrees (inline) for a 4 cylinder (720 / 4).
@@martyscholes119 very very interesting. So the common 60° V-6 layout is just a packaging compromise then? Not perfect, but the best possible within reason
@@nthgth Packaging is one thing, but the other reason most V6's are 60° is that a 60° V6 with -60° crankpin offsets actually has perfect primary balance (the force vectors for each pair of pistons sum to a perfect circle instead of an ellipse).
I love all of them, but the Yamaha crossplane may be in a bike, BUT I LOVE THAT ENGINE ALOT!!!!! Now they need to make crossplane 4 cylinders for trucks and cars.
The Yamaha CP4 motor is something special. You won't ever see them in cars, there is no benefit in a car. The smoother torque curve has no benefit in a heavy vehicle with a larger low revving motor and it is heavier and more complex to produce than a traditional flat plane inline 4.
thx visoracer for including the fireball v6, my uncle put one in a willys cj2a jeep we have in the garage and i just got it running again after 30 years of sitting last week. its a glorious engine!
I run a hopped up 225 Odd Fire (Kenne Bell equipped, MSD, lots of carb., fat headers...) in a 'flatfender' Willys Jeep as well. Give it air (high rise manifold, ported heads, fat headers), feed it (lots of carb, hot spark), and it will run like a striped ape (they were once the darling of sprint racers).
@@X-11 Yes, it does. Through headers and low restriction mufflers it sounds like three Harleys strapped together at idle, like tearing paper when rapping up the RPMs. Lots of low end torque, does not stall, rapidly accelerates, runs cool. Windshield down, goggles and a grin. _Keep the rubber side down._
@@X-11 If you don't have one, find a Warn / Saturn overdrive unit, make sure it matches your T-case output spline count. It provides 25% reduction for each gear range and is the best single upgrade for an early Jeep. I run a 4 speed with stock T90 transfer case. Four speed + underdrive (low range of T-case) = 8 speeds forward, 2 reverse. Add OD for 12 speeds forward, three reverse. You'll have 'longer legs' for road use, a gear range for every task in 4WD. Radiator for 1965 Mustang is a good fit. Inlet / outlet are in right place, better flow than original. I also use a Flex A Lite 30 electric fan with shroud.
Jarryn Smith hey mate yeah I reckon you're right. The VN up to the VS I think is the Buick, then they went to the Ecotec which I have in my VY Commodore. Im no expert so I'm not exactly sure what changes they made on the Ecotec but obviously it's based on the Buick block still.
Dean Herde yea bro your right, the ecotech came through with series 2 VR and goes alloytec at the VZ. The ecotech has like 5 more KWs and is a bit better on fuel from the different manifold and ecotechs are coilpacked, i think(know) buicks still run setup like the 5lts with the dizzy. Ecotechs are not as strong as a buick we had one in a hilux for 2 years before it blew and the thing was a monster i didnt belive it, under water(just make sure you hammed it so the dizzy works), 3rd gear on the spot skids, could drag anything through anything and last but not least BEAT ecotechs as the lights it was amazing
Another odd firing engine is the LS12 V12, basically two inline 6s sharing the same crank pin. Much like having two Buick odd fire v6 joined end to end as well.
... it's 2am and I feel an urge to ramble... You cite the Jota triple, and the two different versions of it. Laverda wanted to go endurance racing, so they asked around the Italian Auto industry, (bit of a family business), and a man from Ferrari offered to help. He had designed a V12 Formula 1 engine, and Ferrari took half that engine to make the Dino. So they sketched up a slightly scaled down version of that Dino engine to go length-ways in a motorbike. That's the famous V-6 Laverda race bike. So then Laverda asked him (conversation, small-talk) about how to design and balance an inline triple. He laughed, and told them he had wondered why they made an inline triple at 180 degrees. Then he told them to take the 120 degree design crank from the Dino V6 and make the crankpins a bit shorter, and use the same balance factors and dimensions as one half of the Dino motor, except with a lot more stroke. That's where the later Jotas with the 120 degree interval came from. It not only sounded different, it completely changed the character of the engine. It went from being a rough and tumble bruiser, to being a howling high-power sewing machine. The engine and the head and the cam covers and everything, it all looks much the same, but it's a radically different engine to use. It's a lot like going from a Triumph Bonneville twin to a Honda 4... You sorta can't believe they're both motorcycles, they're so different.
I am all about the cross-plane V-8, I just think it's one of the most fantastic sounds in the universe. I'd rather have a 190-hp V-8 than the 200-hp 4 in my FR-S, even with the extra weight. But I also really like the 180° I3 and the cross-plane I4. Why don't cars use these?? Love the burble!
When will people understand that a crossplane v8 is not uneven firing? The engine fires every 90 degrees of rotation. It may not fire left right left right left right left right, but it's still even firing. The banks firing unevenly, but all together it fires evenly
Correct. Left Right Left Left Right Left Right Right. You could say that each bank in odd, but they're definitely even when combined. Unbalanced, but even.
04:35 - The 225 cubic inch 'Odd Fire' Buick V6 was, indeed, essentially a 'cut off V8'. It used the same pistons, rods, geometry as had the 215 inch aluminum V8 that had been used in Buick and Oldsmobile offerings before being sold to Rover. The 'Odd Fire' V6 was originally 198 cubic inches, then 225 before being sold to Kaiser Jeep who dubbed it 'Dauntless' (that is a Jeep frame with V6 mounted at 04:58 ). Odd Fire Buick / Kaiser Jeep engines fire at 90 and 150 degrees of rotation. They are rather torquey, run cool, accelerate rapidly, and were once favorites of 'Sprint Car' racers. I run a hopped up 225 Odd Fire in my 1946 Willys. When AMC bought Jeep the V6 was sold back to GM who eventually split the crank pins to make it an 'even fire' 231, 3.8 liter, '3800'.
A good way of differentiating between a crossplane crank engine and a flatplane crank engine is to listen to how the engines sound when they are idling/at tick over. The crossplane crank engines make a woofilling sound like a V8 TVR and the flatplane crank makes a constant drone like a V8 Ferrari. The woofle sound is heard because you can hear some of the 4th strokes of the cycle as exhaust valves are open. The flatplane crank engine cancels out any sound of the 4th strokes of the engine exhaust valves.
It depends really. On a low reving bike it gives a nice brap but I much prefer the singing high revolutions of a worked inline 4 like an R6 over the crossplane R1which sounds like a V4. The reason they changed the R1 to crossplane is because Valentino Rossi. He couldntfeel the tire grip coming out of corners in the regular inline because the torque is so smooth, the crossplane makes a spurt of torque and he can feel that coming out of a corner ans it makes him more confident and more controllable over the rear tires traction
The 180* twin is pretty smooth. I have a TX500 with a 2-1 exhaust and it sounds pretty good and it's smooth all the way up past 11,000. I think the 270 degree engine sounds better, but I own both so...
I like the rapid exhaust note of the classic 2-stroke Detroit Diesel 6V53, but it's a 90 degree configuration, leading to an uneven distribution of power strokes. A 60 degree configuration would smooth out the uneven distribution.
The Maserati Biturbo also uses an oddfire V6, which I believe was based on a Ferarri engine (don't quote me on this) and those were made up into the early 90's. sounds beautiful with open headers.
Nope... It was the 90 degree V6 engine created for the Citroen SM, and was derived originally from the Maserati Indy V8 engine, with 2 cylinders removed to reduce the volume to just under 3 liters, dictated by French taxing schemes.
Originally 198, then 225 cubic inches. Buick sold the 'Fireball' to Kaiser Jeep, who dubbed it 'Dauntless'. I run a hopped up 225 Odd Fire (Kenne Bell equipped, MSD, lots of carb., fat headers...) in a 'flatfender' Willys Jeep.
Hey Visio, nice vids greetings from the states! Should do a video on slanted engines one example i could think of was a slanted four found in a international that i believe was a cut away of a v-8
i love these videos. keep making well produced content like this it's so nice to see. PS you should totally look at some steam powered cars and other machines. (totally not a nerd)
Great video, but all of the v8 cars mentioned have an even order with a cylinder firing every 90. Unlike other engine configurations, they don't alternate banks, giving them the sound.
In tractors and cars, 180 is actually most common. I fail to see why 270 was smoother with less vibrations. John Deere used 270 and they would constantly shear the shear pin on non-JD balers. Another indication of the 270 degree crank engine being unsmooth is a JD tractor with on will "hop" or "bounce" under load.
You forgot the most sold odd firing engine, the John Deere 2 cylinder horizontal piston tractor and power units. Fires both cylinders on the same revolution and then flywheel coasts the next revolution.
V8s are even fire, regardless of whether it is a flat plane or cross plane crank. They fire every 90 degrees. Uneven firiing means the engine doesn't fire at equal intervals of crank rotation (i.e. the 180 and 270 degree parallel twins, which are a 180/540 and 270/450 degree firing order respectively).
Visco the 180° inline twin has been used in John Deere two cylinder tractors since the early to mid 1900s although the displacement is much larger say 425 cui
Interesting. Polite suggestion: Look at horizontally opposed engines. Compare and contrast the BMW Boxer twin motorcycle engine, and the very early (1919) versions of that engine, and the mid '30s VW (pinched pretty much from a production 750cc BMW) and then the addition of 2 more cylinders, making a Porsche flat 6. Then look at the Porsche flat 12, in the 917. (And please please, do include a good quality recording, from the early '70s, of a LeMans Porsche 917 on full song, because that really is the sweetest sounding engine ever made!) Then show a traditional American V8, with shared crankpins. Then show a Ferrari V12, with shared crankpins. Then show a Ferrari "boxer" 12 with shared crankpins. Compare the sound of a 512 BB Boxer to the sound of a 917. On paper, they look like almost the same engine, but in the real world they sound completely different and have completely different personalities and characters. Some of that is down to cam timing and port shape and stuff, but the fundamental bottom end design is radically different, even if it looks the same from across the room. Hint - one is named "Boxer" but it isn't. The other makes no mention of that, but it is.
That 180 degree Laverda triple sounds like a miss-firing 4 cylinder to me, which is basically what it is, the same firing spacings as a 4 but with a cylinder lopped off.
if you are the real petrolhead viewing this video at 4:06 you should recognize something with 4 times more pistons and almost the same volumetric size ! AND i can't forget that Lancia Thema V8 and what i call : uneven V8 sound !
I do not understand the obsession with this "potato-potato" sound. A Ducati and other 180 degree motors sound way more sexy. Stable as mentioned above /\ no problem with routing intake & exhaust
I think both of u have never ever driven a H-D, simply because of your considerations... So go on like this, and I apologize for my silly question, I thought I was talking with engine fans
sounds like little bitches that cant take vibration, and dont know how to work on stuff. i dont understand the obsession with this fart can angry bee exhaust.
The Buick V6 Odd Fire did not have one "offset" cylinder. Firing order is 1-6-5-4-3-2 so they simply fire across like three V twins sharing a common crank. The 'Odd Fire' bit is the timing. Cylinders fire at 90-150-90-150-90-150 on an odd fire, 120-120... on an even fire. I run a hopped up 225 Odd Fire (Kenne Bell equipped, MSD, lots of carb., fat headers...) in a 'flatfender' Willys Jeep.
If ya do a little RESEARCH, you'll find out that 180 deg twins came out WAY before the 60s, most notably, AJS, Norton, BSA & Triumph in "Merry Old England."
![ละลาย (LALALYE) - DAOU PITTAYA ต้าห์อู๋ พิทยา [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wo6r9TgausI/mqdefault.jpg)
The crossplane four-cylinder wins for me, the 270° inline-twin is close, too! I just love the burble sound more tbh :)
It is basically a crossplane V8 cut in half longitudinal.
VisioRacer I like your content I wish you would hire soon that can speak clearer for an American/Canadian
VisioRacer fz-09 / mt-09 ??? Crossplane cranks?
You should have included the lambo v10 and compared and contrasted the 2001-2005 5.0L split pin even Fire to the 2006-present 5.2L odd fire.
that yamaha crossplane makes me wish someone like dodge would try it out in larger displacements for cars. The way things are going, V8's might be legislated out of existence soon so a turbo inline crossplane 4 might be the only way to carry forward the majestic noise of the most correct automobile powerplant format.
That cross-plane Yamaha inline 4 sounds like a baby V8 lol
and some crossplane V8s sound like an inline 4 but more agressive
Because it's half a v8.
Thats what I thought
I heard about defect crank stuff
@@schkann1384 yeah. There's a McLaren V8 that sounds like an inline 4 :)
Visio, your videos are getting better and better, no question about it. Again I say, I am blown away how you find time to research and put together so many quality productions for our enjoyment and entertainment. Thank you for all you do.
I like VisiorRacer choices of 270 inline twin and crossplane four as well.The 180 degree triple Laverda's they were awesome. The original Triumph Tridents 360-degree crank,with pins at every 120-degrees was also awesome. Retro character is coming back.
The W800 also has a 360° crank, and I'd say it's an excellent choice. I personallty love the 360° crank, because even though it's outdated, its simplicity and primitiveness still give it an awesome vintage feel. Put on a 2-into-1 exhaust and it gets even more cool than it already is.
You forgot the Husqvarna Nuda, a paralel twin with a 315 degrees crankshaft and an amazing sound
Thanks for mentioning, will remember that!
eframos I didn't realise that it was 315° for the Nuda I always thought that it was 360° the same as the BMW F800R on which it is based.
yes its 315º for the Nuda, one of the changes that Husqvarna made to transform the "peaceful" BMW engine into a beast
eframos thanks for the update.
RJs favorite bike haha. The 315 degree crank apparently gives it the same firing interval as a Harley V-twin haha. Albiet with a LOT more power than a Harley. Fun bit is BMW went with the 360 degree twingle firing order on the F800 simply because it produces an identical exhaust note to the boxer twin haha.
Loved my Yamaha TRX850 which was a 270 degree inline twin. The characteristics of a V-twin whilst retaining the compactness of a parallel twin ...the best of both worlds
I've never thought the 180 degree inline twin were considered "odd". I thought i was the most common one.
I would have considered the 0 degree inline twins (norton commando) as the odd ones. Not the 180 degrees.
MustangnfsQc Me too, I mean, they look really unbalanced. My opinion
MustangnfsQc Yes Twingles.
Zentäi 289 I know what your saying, it looks like it would be smoother, but a 180 degree inline would only fire evenly if it were a 2 stroke. A 4 stroke at 180 off actually alternates between 180 and 540 degrees between cylinder firing.
The 180 degree twin is considered the easiest to balance and can rev the highest, it is basically a traditional flat plane 4 cylinder cut in half. I'm surprised he didn't have a Ninja 650 in the video as an example, the Kawasaki 650 twin that is used in the Ninja, ER-6 and Versys is the 180 degree design. The twingle is the traditional layout for British bikes ala Triumph, Norton, BSA, etc. BMW still uses the twingle design on the F800 as it produces a sound nearly identical to the boxer twin. The 270 is a newcomer that mostly aims to replicate the sound and powerband of a 90 degree V-twin but with the simplicity and smaller package of a parallel twin.
Very good video , as always. BMW V10 engines... F1 sound...What a music!!!!!
The French PRV V6 is infamously known from being and odd firing, 90° block engine (it's a chopped V8 design). It became even-firing when fitted with a split pin crankshaft, but can be found odd-firing in early versions, like the one powering the DeLorean.
The same was done with the 225 cubic inch Buick 'Odd Fire' V6 of the early 1960s which was sold to Kaiser Jeep 225 Dauntless), then back to GM who split the crankshaft pins for an 'even fire which eventually became the 231, 3.8 liter.
I run a hopped up 225 Odd Fire (Kenne Bell equipped, MSD, lots of carb., fat headers...) in a 'flatfender' Willys Jeep.
The european PRV (Peugeot Renault Volvo) engine from 60's was also 90* odd firing V6. About 80's they started using split crankshafts and it was no more odd firing.
BTW interesting fact is that the PRV engine was used for example in... DeLorean ;)
It was from the 70's actually (built at Douvrin) and had firing intervals of 150°/90° instead of the 60°V's even 120° intervals.
and it was arguably worst engine ever put in a Volvo, one of the worst if not the worst V6 ever made
It's not that simple. I heard that the first PRV have some "issues", but they can't be that bad, when they were building them for over 30 years ;) I have one of the last PRV with even firing timing in Peugeot 605 94'.
Tay Tay - I don't know about Volvo maybe you're right, but "the worst V6 ever made" was more probably the 90° 3-litre Maserati V6 in the Merak (also Citroen SM). The Merak installation needs a mechanic in constant attendance if the car isn't to fall prey to the occasional ambitiously driven Capri V6 (same displacement, but solid).
A crossplane V8 is only odd-firing between each cylinder bank, the engine itself is even-firing.
I was about to post the same: a crossplane V8 with a shared crank pin fires evenly, but each cycle has back-to-back firing on each bank. That means at some point the left bank fires twice in a row as does the right bank, raising pressure in the left or right exhaust manifold and causing the burble. A four cycle engine with shared crank pins can only fire evenly if the angle between the banks is a multiple of 720 divided by the number of cylinders, such as 90 degrees for a V8 (720 / 8), 120 degrees for a V6 (720 / 6), or 180 degrees (opposed) or 360 degrees (inline) for a 4 cylinder (720 / 4).
Marty Scholes Exactly
@@martyscholes119 very very interesting.
So the common 60° V-6 layout is just a packaging compromise then? Not perfect, but the best possible within reason
@@nthgth Packaging is one thing, but the other reason most V6's are 60° is that a 60° V6 with -60° crankpin offsets actually has perfect primary balance (the force vectors for each pair of pistons sum to a perfect circle instead of an ellipse).
@@electric7487 so what about that 120 degrees stuff from the other guy?
Seeing a new clip from VisioRacer on my feed is like getting an early christmas present
I have to say, your English is getting better and better!! Keep it up man!!
I love all of them, but the Yamaha crossplane may be in a bike, BUT I LOVE THAT ENGINE ALOT!!!!!
Now they need to make crossplane 4 cylinders for trucks and cars.
Definitely!
real Tylun Porter you sound like a motorcycle hater lmao
TheMadnessSkull75 LMAO No, dude. I like Harleys.
The Yamaha CP4 motor is something special. You won't ever see them in cars, there is no benefit in a car. The smoother torque curve has no benefit in a heavy vehicle with a larger low revving motor and it is heavier and more complex to produce than a traditional flat plane inline 4.
mrvwbug44 What about a V4?
thx visoracer for including the fireball v6, my uncle put one in a willys cj2a jeep we have in the garage and i just got it running again after 30 years of sitting last week. its a glorious engine!
I run a hopped up 225 Odd Fire (Kenne Bell equipped, MSD, lots of carb., fat headers...) in a 'flatfender' Willys Jeep as well.
Give it air (high rise manifold, ported heads, fat headers), feed it (lots of carb, hot spark), and it will run like a striped ape (they were once the darling of sprint racers).
@@-oiiio-3993 sounds good
@@X-11 Yes, it does.
Through headers and low restriction mufflers it sounds like three Harleys strapped together at idle, like tearing paper when rapping up the RPMs.
Lots of low end torque, does not stall, rapidly accelerates, runs cool.
Windshield down, goggles and a grin.
_Keep the rubber side down._
@@-oiiio-3993 ill be renovating the cj hopefully soon.
@@X-11 If you don't have one, find a Warn / Saturn overdrive unit, make sure it matches your T-case output spline count. It provides 25% reduction for each gear range and is the best single upgrade for an early Jeep.
I run a 4 speed with stock T90 transfer case. Four speed + underdrive (low range of T-case) = 8 speeds forward, 2 reverse. Add OD for 12 speeds forward, three reverse.
You'll have 'longer legs' for road use, a gear range for every task in 4WD.
Radiator for 1965 Mustang is a good fit. Inlet / outlet are in right place, better flow than original. I also use a Flex A Lite 30 electric fan with shroud.
That first clip in the mountains was fab. Another great video Visi, thanks.
Hi from Australia. Your videos are so interesting mate. Really enjoying them a lot. Thanks.
Dean Herde im pretty sure we have the same odd firing buick in the commodores since it sounds the same as my V8 on idle
Jarryn Smith hey mate yeah I reckon you're right. The VN up to the VS I think is the Buick, then they went to the Ecotec which I have in my VY Commodore. Im no expert so I'm not exactly sure what changes they made on the Ecotec but obviously it's based on the Buick block still.
Dean Herde yea bro your right, the ecotech came through with series 2 VR and goes alloytec at the VZ. The ecotech has like 5 more KWs and is a bit better on fuel from the different manifold and ecotechs are coilpacked, i think(know) buicks still run setup like the 5lts with the dizzy.
Ecotechs are not as strong as a buick we had one in a hilux for 2 years before it blew and the thing was a monster i didnt belive it, under water(just make sure you hammed it so the dizzy works), 3rd gear on the spot skids, could drag anything through anything and last but not least BEAT ecotechs as the lights it was amazing
Jarryn Smith oh yeah they're a tough engine alright. Used to have a manual VN and I loved that car.
OH WOOOOOW, that Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione, WHAT A LEGENDARY SOUND!!!!
Another odd firing engine is the LS12 V12, basically two inline 6s sharing the same crank pin. Much like having two Buick odd fire v6 joined end to end as well.
I see MT07, i press like. ^.^
this engines wins everything in terms of power and torque and also sounds good But as always good video ;-)
Another odd firing V6 is the PRV
Used in the DeLorean and some volvos
French engine, should have been a V8 but they removed 2 cyl cuz emission
It doesn't get any better than a crossplaned carbureted American V8. Sounds agressive all the time, the idle sound is heaven.
... it's 2am and I feel an urge to ramble...
You cite the Jota triple, and the two different versions of it. Laverda wanted to go endurance racing, so they asked around the Italian Auto industry, (bit of a family business), and a man from Ferrari offered to help. He had designed a V12 Formula 1 engine, and Ferrari took half that engine to make the Dino. So they sketched up a slightly scaled down version of that Dino engine to go length-ways in a motorbike. That's the famous V-6 Laverda race bike. So then Laverda asked him (conversation, small-talk) about how to design and balance an inline triple. He laughed, and told them he had wondered why they made an inline triple at 180 degrees. Then he told them to take the 120 degree design crank from the Dino V6 and make the crankpins a bit shorter, and use the same balance factors and dimensions as one half of the Dino motor, except with a lot more stroke.
That's where the later Jotas with the 120 degree interval came from. It not only sounded different, it completely changed the character of the engine. It went from being a rough and tumble bruiser, to being a howling high-power sewing machine. The engine and the head and the cam covers and everything, it all looks much the same, but it's a radically different engine to use. It's a lot like going from a Triumph Bonneville twin to a Honda 4... You sorta can't believe they're both motorcycles, they're so different.
the cross plane R4 sounds so dope! like a tiny crossplane v8
I am all about the cross-plane V-8, I just think it's one of the most fantastic sounds in the universe. I'd rather have a 190-hp V-8 than the 200-hp 4 in my FR-S, even with the extra weight.
But I also really like the 180° I3 and the cross-plane I4. Why don't cars use these?? Love the burble!
I think this channel is underrated
I mean this guy has so much talent
He should get like at least 800K subs
Lol the guy in 1:05 and the next clip brought a motorcycle to a bicycle race XD
Thank for your videos. They are fun to watch and very enlightening to a gear or petrol head.
Yay finally my stupid slow Camaro 3.8 Fireball Was In A Car Channel!!!! Slow but does sound good
And a like from you! nice haha. Now just needa make a video with my Mr2 Turbo "SW20" haha. Affordable mid engine cars maybe?
Your camaro is even fire.
the 3.8s in the 90s camaros are even fire, on bore spacing engines. buick changed to even fire in like 1983 i think.
+Frigglebiscuit what about the Vortec 4.3 V6? That one is odd firing right?
TH3C001 no idea, but I doubt the vortecs are.
my dad's boat has a inline 6 diesel which makes a rumble pauze rumble pause noise is a 8.5 litre daf engine love the sound
Better than Top Gear.
Major Fatty you couldn't be more wrong
Livingston rc I'm not always right just my opinion.
+Livingston rc probably talking about the new top gear
Ryan Padgham Yes indeed.
Not in english
the crossplane v8 looks like a perfect vibrator.
I love the sound of the Yamaha cross plane 4.
Now I know why it sounds like that.
When will people understand that a crossplane v8 is not uneven firing? The engine fires every 90 degrees of rotation. It may not fire left right left right left right left right, but it's still even firing. The banks firing unevenly, but all together it fires evenly
Correct. Left Right Left Left Right Left Right Right. You could say that each bank in odd, but they're definitely even when combined. Unbalanced, but even.
depending on the V angle it could still be odd fire, but I get your point.
I was about to mention it :D
@@petrsulc1168 me to
04:35 - The 225 cubic inch 'Odd Fire' Buick V6 was, indeed, essentially a 'cut off V8'. It used the same pistons, rods, geometry as had the 215 inch aluminum V8 that had been used in Buick and Oldsmobile offerings before being sold to Rover. The 'Odd Fire' V6 was originally 198 cubic inches, then 225 before being sold to Kaiser Jeep who dubbed it 'Dauntless' (that is a Jeep frame with V6 mounted at 04:58 ).
Odd Fire Buick / Kaiser Jeep engines fire at 90 and 150 degrees of rotation. They are rather torquey, run cool, accelerate rapidly, and were once favorites of 'Sprint Car' racers. I run a hopped up 225 Odd Fire in my 1946 Willys.
When AMC bought Jeep the V6 was sold back to GM who eventually split the crank pins to make it an 'even fire' 231, 3.8 liter, '3800'.
Visio racer i like ur videos...... Than other channel
A good way of differentiating between a crossplane crank engine and a flatplane crank engine is to listen to how the engines sound when they are idling/at tick over. The crossplane crank engines make a woofilling sound like a V8 TVR and the flatplane crank makes a constant drone like a V8 Ferrari. The woofle sound is heard because you can hear some of the 4th strokes of the cycle as exhaust valves are open. The flatplane crank engine cancels out any sound of the 4th strokes of the engine exhaust valves.
Impressive, interesting and informative thank you for a great video once again.
Those v10s at the end sound sweet
Great content! Good job
They had some ford f250s maybe 150s that came with a triton v10 but i believe it had issues twisting the frames. Pretty rare truck
Nice! i miss my Norton Dominator 600cc Twin!
i love listening to this guy his voice reminds me of BMO from adventure time :D
An engines who fires unevenly sounds a lot better.
It depends really. On a low reving bike it gives a nice brap but I much prefer the singing high revolutions of a worked inline 4 like an R6 over the crossplane R1which sounds like a V4.
The reason they changed the R1 to crossplane is because Valentino Rossi. He couldntfeel the tire grip coming out of corners in the regular inline because the torque is so smooth, the crossplane makes a spurt of torque and he can feel that coming out of a corner ans it makes him more confident and more controllable over the rear tires traction
The 180* twin is pretty smooth. I have a TX500 with a 2-1 exhaust and it sounds pretty good and it's smooth all the way up past 11,000. I think the 270 degree engine sounds better, but I own both so...
Crossplane I4 sounds like a baby V8 lol, I want one of these in a hatchback!
It does!
It sounds awesome
FZ-10 owner here. The crossplane 4 is pretty sick
Congratulations, I love its sound!
I like the rapid exhaust note of the classic 2-stroke Detroit Diesel 6V53, but it's a 90 degree configuration, leading to an uneven distribution of power strokes. A 60 degree configuration would smooth out the uneven distribution.
God bless that quickshifter on that FZ-10..
Another great video, thanks for making and sharing your videos😊😊...
Keep them comming 😊
Best chanel👍....from indonesia😊
The Maserati Biturbo also uses an oddfire V6, which I believe was based on a Ferarri engine (don't quote me on this) and those were made up into the early 90's. sounds beautiful with open headers.
Nope... It was the 90 degree V6 engine created for the Citroen SM, and was derived originally from the Maserati Indy V8 engine, with 2 cylinders removed to reduce the volume to just under 3 liters, dictated by French taxing schemes.
MASTERS OF TORQUE
VERY GOOD promotion
That beemer sounds awsome af.
That S85 is a gift from heaven
the yammer x-plane four.....
anybody hear the sound of a v-8 besides me when the rider is cranking on it?
an extremely nice sound. good vid ;-)
Love how they sound
M5 E90. Best sounding car EVER. ATLEAST IN THE TOP 10.
5:35 that's a lego engine, mate...
my fav channel
That BMW S85 sounds great for me!
The FZ-09 sounds so good.
{ [ ( Top classic Estate Wagons ) ] }
the guy at 1:04 has some balls.
The next three seconds after the cut were probably pretty butt clenching...
TheSpeedTrap yeah :D
Go watch a channel called Schaaf, that guy is nuts.
balls small enough to ride like a moron.
thanks man :D
Man your channel is awsome!!! I always watch your videos but i had not subscribed for some reason 🤔
Glad you like to watch my videos any how :)
the 231 fireball v6 was the predecessor of the later 3800 used all the way up until 2008 when it was finally discontinued.
Originally 198, then 225 cubic inches.
Buick sold the 'Fireball' to Kaiser Jeep, who dubbed it 'Dauntless'.
I run a hopped up 225 Odd Fire (Kenne Bell equipped, MSD, lots of carb., fat headers...) in a 'flatfender' Willys Jeep.
This video makes me wanna completely rebuild my engine as a CP4
Hey Visio, nice vids greetings from the states! Should do a video on slanted engines one example i could think of was a slanted four found in a international that i believe was a cut away of a v-8
i love these videos.
keep making well produced content like this it's so nice to see.
PS you should totally look at some steam powered cars and other machines. (totally not a nerd)
YEAH INTRO!
Great video, but all of the v8 cars mentioned have an even order with a cylinder firing every 90. Unlike other engine configurations, they don't alternate banks, giving them the sound.
1:51 if I remember right, the owner of an old John Deere 2-cyl tractor said its engine was like that
Love your vids. Keep it up.
In tractors and cars, 180 is actually most common. I fail to see why 270 was smoother with less vibrations. John Deere used 270 and they would constantly shear the shear pin on non-JD balers. Another indication of the 270 degree crank engine being unsmooth is a JD tractor with on will "hop" or "bounce" under load.
You forgot the most sold odd firing engine, the John Deere 2 cylinder horizontal piston tractor and power units. Fires both cylinders on the same revolution and then flywheel coasts the next revolution.
Imagine a Flat-8 that did that. Boom! Wait for it... Boom! Wait for it...
V8s are even fire, regardless of whether it is a flat plane or cross plane crank. They fire every 90 degrees. Uneven firiing means the engine doesn't fire at equal intervals of crank rotation (i.e. the 180 and 270 degree parallel twins, which are a 180/540 and 270/450 degree firing order respectively).
right, crossplane V8s are even firing, resulting from the two odd firing 4-cylinder benches working together in one engine.
Visco the 180° inline twin has been used in John Deere two cylinder tractors since the early to mid 1900s although the displacement is much larger say 425 cui
Interesting.
Polite suggestion: Look at horizontally opposed engines. Compare and contrast the BMW Boxer twin motorcycle engine, and the very early (1919) versions of that engine, and the mid '30s VW (pinched pretty much from a production 750cc BMW) and then the addition of 2 more cylinders, making a Porsche flat 6. Then look at the Porsche flat 12, in the 917. (And please please, do include a good quality recording, from the early '70s, of a LeMans Porsche 917 on full song, because that really is the sweetest sounding engine ever made!)
Then show a traditional American V8, with shared crankpins. Then show a Ferrari V12, with shared crankpins. Then show a Ferrari "boxer" 12 with shared crankpins. Compare the sound of a 512 BB Boxer to the sound of a 917. On paper, they look like almost the same engine, but in the real world they sound completely different and have completely different personalities and characters. Some of that is down to cam timing and port shape and stuff, but the fundamental bottom end design is radically different, even if it looks the same from across the room.
Hint - one is named "Boxer" but it isn't. The other makes no mention of that, but it is.
A. I'm glad he mentioned the Buick v6, and I think the crossplane 4 cylinder sounds more like a v8
I run a hopped up 225 Odd Fire (Kenne Bell equipped, MSD, lots of carb., fat headers...) in a 'flatfender' Willys Jeep.
Love Yamaha Crossplane sound.
Thnak you so much for this video
That 180 degree Laverda triple sounds like a miss-firing 4 cylinder to me, which is basically what it is, the same firing spacings as a 4 but with a cylinder lopped off.
This was quite informative what about audi n lambos why the sound so crackley
1:18 he really has balls.
if you are the real petrolhead viewing this video at 4:06 you should recognize something with 4 times more pistons and almost the same volumetric size !
AND
i can't forget that Lancia Thema V8 and what i call : uneven V8 sound !
crazy idea, what about a v twin, but one cylinder runs on a 2 stroke cycle but the other funs on a 4?
Sorry but about the perhaps most famous of all, the Harley-Davidson 45° V-2?
And way shittier than the rest presented here. Uneven firing, and unbalanceable
immikeurnot ahahahahahahahah
I do not understand the obsession with this "potato-potato" sound. A Ducati and other 180 degree motors sound way more sexy. Stable as mentioned above /\ no problem with routing intake & exhaust
I think both of u have never ever driven a H-D, simply because of your considerations... So go on like this, and I apologize for my silly question, I thought I was talking with engine fans
sounds like little bitches that cant take vibration, and dont know how to work on stuff. i dont understand the obsession with this fart can angry bee exhaust.
Your videos are nice 😍😍🔥🔥💕💕
Incredible 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Hey Visio, is mt09 three cylinder yamaha cross plane like a tiger 900? They sound different
I like my 180 degree two stroke twin (RD 400). Also have a Honda Hawk 647. Also 180 degree
3:33 is that a Subaru on two wheels 😂 haha yes I know it’s not but hey id do a boxer 4 just to fool people
I always wondered if that was the reason for the subie sound. Now I know!
Basically you can do it on a Honda as well, but won't be very beneficial for your engine output
VisioRacer especially newer engines with o2 sensors. They can male the car read rich and cause the engine to actually lean out.
what's up with the gears next to the con rods in the MT-07?
1:58 nice white Celica!
At first I thought it was a C110 Skyline 😅
I had a buick v6 it had an that cylinder that fired oddly. It was labeled called odd fire I think. If I remember right cylinder 5 was the offset one.
The Buick V6 Odd Fire did not have one "offset" cylinder. Firing order is 1-6-5-4-3-2 so they simply fire across like three V twins sharing a common crank.
The 'Odd Fire' bit is the timing. Cylinders fire at 90-150-90-150-90-150 on an odd fire, 120-120... on an even fire.
I run a hopped up 225 Odd Fire (Kenne Bell equipped, MSD, lots of carb., fat headers...) in a 'flatfender' Willys Jeep.
If ya do a little RESEARCH, you'll find out that 180 deg twins came out WAY before the 60s, most notably, AJS, Norton, BSA & Triumph in "Merry Old England."
Now what about best sounding even firing apart from the obvious ones
Visio, what book about engine do yo recommend?