Force Recon Marines VS Recon Marines - What's the difference?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- KG Spradley joins the show, and as the first Force Recon guy we've ever had on, he gets into the difference between Force Recon Marines and Recon Marines.
Watch the full episode up now - • Force Recon Marine & c...
#usmc #specops #specialoperations
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For fuck's sake, it would be GREAT if Ian would let the other two FINISH THEIR SENTENCES and not try to guess what they were going to say. Let the guys TALK FFS please.
OMG I was literally thinking the same thing. Shut up and and let the guy talk.
Guys, I like the show. BUT you guys need to talk less and let the guest talk.
Facts a lot of these military podcasts don’t allow things to go with the guest’s narrative.
@@kAiZeN87xis there a reason behind this? Like to control the content?
@@Giedriukas3 no just this channel specifically “Shawn Ryan” does it perfectly allowing the guests to fully explain things.
100%
Having served in a Marine Recon Bn. The main difference was the range of the missions. Force was supposed to be long range beyond supporting arms. They also received more advanced schools than most guys at Battalion. That being said. Certain Recon Battalions had Deep Recon Platoons that did the Force Recon mission set. Battalion Recon also had direct missions that were called Stingray missions. A lot has changed over the years. ARS aka BRC is where they all go to become a Reconnaissance Marine. Doesn't matter if it's Force or Battalion.
In the mid 80's 2nd Force was getting Hostage recuse training from the LASO SEB guy's. There was a rivalry between them and the SEALS. They were growing their hair out and getting cool gear. I was jealous.
The Ranger vs Ranger school grad analogy isn't a good analogy to make, and I did go to Ranger school as a Recon Marine. oh yeah and I couldn't wear the tab.
I was in 1st RECON BN DRP in the early 80's.
Semper Fi. I made sure you got paid, eventually.... 0151 Combat Admin! 💻
Are the Force Recon guys routinely forward deployed to designated AOs like SEALs and Green Berets? Like is it where one Force Recon Company will have a focus on SOUTHCOM while another company might focus on CENTCOM or AFRICOM etc?
My biggest regret was getting out. Semper FI
I remember a simplistic explanation back in the early 90's...Battalion Recon can go 5 miles behind enemy lines without support, Force Recon 500.
I was a Recon Marine(battalion). The biggest difference between us and the SOF units is funding. Being part of SOCOM comes with having virtually an unlimited budget for training. I did DA missions in battalion. Not as much as Forecon but we did them....Stingray missions
Please shut up and let the guest talks.
Great interview, thanks! I am a former east coast Recon Marine from the 90s and did just want to point out that the 81mm mortar plt. was used to rescue O'Grady because they were the designated TRAP (tactical recovery of aircraft and personnel) plt., as was common for MEUSOCs back in the day.
My lord boys let the man talk
Let the man talk. Wow
I found out about Force Recon back in the 90's. I did not know if I could qual for it, as in the physical aspect of it, but I wanted to try. Unfortunately, I did not know that the body fat percentage test was only two measurements: The neck and abdomen. I failed and that ended any chance of a military career. Now, according to the recruiters (1990's) Force Recon got all the good missions and more secret and beyond classified stuff. Now those recruiters were Marines, the Navy recruiters said the SEALs, the Air Force said (are your ready, I do not even know if they still exist) Combat Control (Air Force). I have no idea whom is better if any? But I never heard of Recon B until a couple of days ago. I will listen to the guys below my comments. They sound like they know what they are talking about. I just wanted to comment that. I have no idea what the difference between the two. I think the Marine recruiters told me, but that was almost 30 years ago. Sorry.
Yep...BIG difference. I was in 1st and 2nd Recon Battalion just after Vietnam. Went thru the Recon pipeline in '76/'77 Indoc, BRC, Jump School, Rubber boat school and Pre Combat Divers School. Indoc and BRC both had sky high drop rates so Recon (Battalion) was no easy task and quite selective in itself but the Force Recon selection is at another level. I knew guys who made it and guys who didn't. Had I stayed in it would have been on my target list but I had been accepted to Engineering college based on my H.S. SAT scores and my Dad was a rocket Engineer at Cape Canaveral and I was also having stress fracture issues in my lower left leg that I just couldn't get to stay 100% healthy, so I guess in the end I probably wouldn't have made it thru the long heavy humps required in Force selection.
Let the Marine talk
Battalion Reconnaissance, the name says it all. They are a BN level asset that has a special operations capability but is not classified as a SOF.
Force Reconnaissance, is a Fleet Marine Force (basically MEU to Corp level… Marines you can correct me) asset that is highly trained as a special operations unit. But is also not classified as a SOF under USSOCOM.
MARSOC/Raiders is a SOF under USSOCOM.
Being part of USSOCOM is not here as a “level” elitness, but comes down to operational control and funding.
A very similar parallel was in the US Army before 2019 with Long-Range Surveillance (LRS) Units (LRSU). There was the Division level asset with LRS Detachments (LRSD), similar to BN Recon. And LRS Company (LRSC) which was a Corp asset similar to Force Recon. LRSD and LRSC were also special operations “capable” units that were not a SOF. 75th RRD/RRC is a SOF under USSOCOM.
This is in no way to say any unit is better or more elite. It is just to list how diluted military hierarchy can be to the uninitiated. LoL.
Good video by the way!
As a Radio Recon Marine who trained with Force Recon, and Marine Snipers… I was a Recon Marine, not Force or a Sniper… I was on training missions with them and I actually went through part of the Force Recon Indoctrination Program (it was more gentlemanly than the Recon Indoc, at least in the pool). The way the guy describes Force Recon in the video could have been the description of Radio Recon just as well, including demolition and all of it, except Radio obviously adds signals intel. The main difference, according to the highly coordinated joint training I was involved in was Recon Marines get closer to the objective initially, close enough to list targets and assets, weapons, etc and take photos, while listening in on the targets and surrounding noise. Force Recon and Snipers staged near but off target until we collected enough intel for command to determine how to follow up. If the intel target was high value or if a particular target needed sniped, Force or Snipers could be called in to capture the intel or prisoners or to snipe who needed sniping.
Radio Recon was a small very clandestine team of 6 or fewer operators. Force had many more men and way more firepower than Radio Recon, possibly including a big automatic gun or two on vehicles. Once Recon collected intel, Force may be sent in to capture material intel and/or prisoners. At that time Radio Recon would be part of the security perimeter or called in to assist Force. Keep in mind, this was only the training missions I was on and all missions could demand each unit perform various tasks with considerable overlap. My actual missions in Iraq and other Middle Eastern nations never operated in conjunction with Force or any other special operations units since we were all spread thin. We didn't even have 6 men sometimes. All these units should be highly respected.
You can spin it anyway you want. SOCCOM is absolutely more elite than any of other SOF capability unit. That is not up for debate. The level of training, funding, and mission set separates the elite title. FR marines simply do not get the same level of training and operational tempo that MARSOC does.
Honestly the training is very similar among many special operations units. In fact, I am a recon Marine and I went to both Army Airborne and Army Ranger schools. And we had Navy Seals train with us during one of the Recon Indoctrination Course that I planned. And there were Seals at that Ranger school as well. You are correct in that one major difference is funding. That is what hurts Marines spec ops in notoriety… Marines simply do not get any where near the funding that the other branches get. Marines decided not to lend their best to official Special Forces (we are Special Ops none-the-less) in order to not lose their best Marines to other commands, which makes sense.@@offspringfan1288
When Marsoc became a thing, the Marine Corps disbanded Force in 07. There was still a DRP/ Force platoon doing the Force mission in the Recon battalions. A lot of the old force company guys went to the new Marsoc battalions.
Recon Marines are the most capable, underutilized individuals in the Marine Corps. This is not the fault of anyone but the Marine Corps higher leadership not understanding how to employ Recon Marines. The old dinosaur logic of big Marine Corps is ‘no one is special’. Recon had the opportunity to be a Socom funded entity, but the Corps high command said no! It’s crazy how the agency is Recondo heavy. Probably because the pound for pound individual doesn’t suck! Guys get tired of the Marine Corps bullshit, then leave Recon and go SF, Seals, or straight agency if they didn’t get picked up by a tier 1 unit. Now days they aren’t even letting Marines go to JSOC under MCATSU. The Marine Corps needs to adapt to the modern reality of unconventional warfare and tactics. Recon Marines do the most with the least and proper employment education to the officer corps is a must! Recon should be apart of socom just like the Ranger, Seals, etc.
Underutilized for sure and high standards. Recon is practically a "Special Forces" unit. USMC needs to shuffle some things around. Be cool of Recon tags along with the Raiders like Rangers tag along with Delta.
Thank you gents. Just a reminder, we’re all on the same Team.
Only down range...
Here, swabbies are swabbies, Army is just dogs, mutts even, Air Force is usually not even in the room unless they are jtac or pj, I will help them.. and the good ol Coasties.... I love these dudes...especially the special ones who hunt cartel scum..... and the Space Men, how can you say that and keep a straight face, no matter how well they are trained......I would have gone with the Colonial Marines for the crazy stuff we will meet on Uranus ( 😂 haaaa ) and the Seals and Army for the moon battles with China and Mars People.... LingMAO 😂😂😂haaaaaaaaaaa
Send Jocko or Kennedy for the initial meet and greet to guarantee War.....😂😂
What a mess Obama has made of this country.
The operation that Marcus Latrell went on was actually supposed to be a Marine Corps operation, And they were gonna send in scouts snipers. There is a book on audible about. it. I wish I remember the name of the book.
It might be Victory Point by Ed Darack
“Victory Point” About Whalers Op
Would've been much more of a successful op if the navy seals didn't fuck everything up
Lol. An answer, that didn't answer the question.
Force Recon is , just as the name implies, for the larger "Force". Whatever those forces be. Marine, Navy, Army, Air Force , DOD, "Government" in general. Anyone wanting them for a special mission. A specialized unit to do specialized tasks, for the entire "force". A part of MARSOC etc. and/or a unit capable of interforce operations outside the "reconnaissance" aspect. Missions that require reconnaissance and/or action.
Recon, or Battalion Recon is, as named, for Battalion level operations. Reconnaissance for Marine Battalion and Company level operations. Capable and dedicated to intraforce operations, usually more "reconnaissance" based only, vs reconnaissance and action missions typical of Force Recon.
Neither did you answer the question. 'Force' is the Marine Expeditionary Force. It is the largest MAGFT. The MEF is a Marine Division,one Marine Air Wing and a Marine Logistics Group.
I see you updated you answer slick. In the future try not to post answers on a subject matter you don't know about.
1:39 I hope we see more books as more and more of the GWOT era Marines learn to read
So, when I was going through Dive School in the Army...who were the Marines there? Force Recon...I think?
Most likely Force or MARSOC.
I loved the interview, but jesus less talking. Let the gentlemen speak about Force Recon.
Marine Expeditionary Units (MEU). Have a 6 hour window to react.
Force Recon also go thru tier 3 SERE whereas Battalion Recon does not.
Gentlemen as a retired Marine, all Marines are studs. Unlike Seals, Rangers or other special operators, Recon Marines are proud to be called Marines.
Wow can listen to these guys
lines blur now. depends on their skill set. in the case of rudy, he was attached to a ship and was one of the first on the ground in afghanistan with his one recon platoon. the other thing is that he was also a marine scout sniper. as a result, it's not the same exact thing as a regular recon guy. he was working in joint small units as well.
Why does the guy on the left not have a chin?
Hey hey be nice….. but since you mentioned it, how do you suppose he folds towels?
One too many people yanking g in this.
You guys gotta work out your tempo/cadence with the interruptions and questions. Dude never gets to respond and you guys are going nonstop.
The interview would be better if the dude on the screen wasn't involved. He must be army
Never Above, Never Below….
Thinking about getting back in the military. Havent decided. Leaning Marine Corps because my time in the army was a pretty bad and im wanting to give another branch a chance. But the military altogether is becoming something even I can't get down with. Leadership on top is REALLY bad right now and id say it has been for years. Shit rolls down hill. Force Recon and MARSOC seem like attractive options as a former grunt. (11B 82nd ABN Div) But as a father... it doesn't pay so well and i have 3 kids i have to provide for. And of course that's assuming I'd even make the cut and get into one of those units. There's probably alot of former service members like me i imagine. It's more dog eat dog in the civilian sector, for sure. But there's way more incentive to stay out of the military right now. Especially with current world affairs the way they are. Not everyone condones the moves our government is making.
First of all, as a Marine, there is not a direct comparison between being an Army straight leg and a Marine. Marines are more on the level of Rangers. I'm not sure what makes you think you would make it in Recon or MARSOC. You have three kids, why would you want to be in a unit with an operational tempo of deploying every year?
@@no8865BULL $#!+... Marines are more comparable to Rangers... 😂 STOP it. As a former Soldier who served in LRS Unit as well as a Cav Scout beforehand, and have done a bit of training with an ANGLICO Unit , being Opfor for a Ranger Company and having former Marines including two former Recon Battalion Marines come to the Army . I stand by my words.
BS.
@@no8865 "Marines are more on the level of Rangers." No they're not. The difference between the 75th Ranger Regiment and any Marine infantry regiment is night and day. The Rangers are the best light infantry unit in the entire US military. It's simply an objective fact. 75RR has higher standards to get in, but here's the thing that not everyone knows... it's harder to stay in the Rangers than get your foot in the door. There is no "once a Ranger, always a Ranger" ethos it's a privileged assignment and you work your ass off to prove you belong there, otherwise they boot your ass out into the big Army (it's called RFS/Release For Standards). Passing RASP is just the beginning. Then you have complete sooner or later Ranger School before they even consider you a real human being. Fail... RFS'd.
Regular Marine grunt battalions have plenty of shitbags and coasters in them, you don't get that in Ranger Regiment because they don't have to put up with it. Also, not only does 75RR get to cherry-pick the best infantry NCOs and Officers in the Army, those NCOs/Officers have to pass RASP II every time they're promoted in order to compete for slots.
75RR is most comparable to the USMC Division Recon, actually the standards for the latter are higher (BRC > RASP). But that's only at entry level, in practice, because 75RR is a SOCOM unit, it gets all the funding, equipment, and MISSIONS that come with it (Recon is stuck as a USMC conventional asset), a Ranger who's 3 years into his service (deployed half a dozen times, etc etc) is head and shoulders above a Recon Marine who's probably never even deployed once.
Recon these days is just a farm league for the Raiders, let's be honest. Or they get out after their first enlistment and go USASOC.
No, don't do it. Whatever you hated about the Army is worse in the Marine Corps.
It doesn't sound like your heart is in it so you wouldn't make it anyway.
Make the mission happen.. I went thru the last two RIP courses on the east side...... Baby Recon. But Force vs Bat.... It's score cards and veterans.
I think it is a testament to the US Marines that they can use a conventional Weapons Co Plt to do some missions that are not exactly conventional. GO MEU SOC. The Marine Corps , in general, is very adaptable, flexible, massively capable. Also, I'm an old Marine from the 80's and back then Force was traditionally the long range recon element for the Marine Force Commander, a Lt. General that commanded the combined a full Marine Division and all that goes with it including a Marine AirWing. Think in terms of Vietnam, the Commander of the 3rd MarDiv in the northern part of I Corps along the DMZ would use his Force Recon Asset to go deep into Laos and North Vietnam to conduct Sting Ray Operations. Bn Recon's traditional mission is beach survey and short range recon to asses the viability of an amphibious landing. They do and did a lot more than that in every conflict though. Force and DRP from 3rd Recon also were the direct action choice. Semper Fi
The easy way to look at it is Force answers to the MEF Commander and Bn answers to Division. No MARSOC is not the new Force. Force is still alive within each Bn but they still answer to MEF like I said in the beginning.
My brother said he was there on a mission in Lybia. I respect them guys.
This is inaccurate, O’Grady mission was done by 81s (Heavy Mortars) , bc they are designated TRAP platoon,..not one motor made it on that mission,…to be honest only a handful of Marines trained for that mission went on it…SNCOs and Officers bumped dudes just to get in on it
I wrote a book at meps
Force Recon Guys are all dive and airborne qualified. In Battalion Recon, not all Recon Marines are airborne or dive qualified. Some are. Also you don't stay in Force Recon for the rest of your career.
How can you enter Force recon after finishing BRC?
Since when do marines wear ocp or multicam?
It's a relatively recent years change. The SOCOM commander implemented OCPs because he wanted everyone under his umbrella to be uniformed.
Recon marines , force recon , marsoc can be confusing …
Force recon = equal to army rangers
Marsoc = green berets
But force recon doesn’t fall under socom they should
I spent 7 years in the Marines, first enlistment on camp margarita stationed with Truck company HQBN, where 1st Recon was based and STILL don’t know what those fuckers did 😂
Are Battalion Recon Marines equivalent to U.S Army light infantry battalion scout platoon or Longe Range Surveillance?
More LRS
Not even close.
@@josephfolsom2870yeah as in recon is on another level. Not to mention the training pipeline and requirements start to finish
@@AnandroidWhat makes Recon or even FR different than the US LRSC/D units?
I'd like to hear this?
@@billyjacc training is more difficult. Many are jump and dive qualified. There is a massive water component as they have to infil via water as well.
Me no likie you talkie too much
🤷♂
I like the fact that the world knows more about DevGru and Delta these days than they know about the modern LAR units....
I get the social media thing.... But over the last 20 years or so, operational security has become a thing of the past.... Barack Hussein Obama is to thank for that....Joe was told by Obama...
Force today vs Force in the early 90s... can't compare...
Even when Det One was created to start the ball rolling, a step was lost....and still, look what they accomplished....
Richard Marcinko had the entire Navy, SOF community to hand pick his little band from..when he created Red Cell, 1 of those dudes was a Force Guy....Old School of course.
And then, there was the infamous long hair unit out of 41 area....
If you are going to compare the units, to others.
Bn would be a 3 right out of BRC.
Force a solid 2, all day once they get out of the traing unit...
MARSOC, CSOs, top end of 2 all day, and dont be surprised if they already have a 1 hidden somewhere that actually keep their mouth shut...
Unlike some dudes....on youtube....
A set of undated pre signed leave papers is good indicator of how good and valuable a unit is to the dudes in Washinton....
I would say there aren't too many of those in our arsenal.....
But this is fun AIN'T IT!!!!!😂
Army Rangers ain't on the same level as Seals, Recon, or SF... Rangers are about as good as a Marine infantryman. Almost as good because Rangers RASP is 8 weeks long and Marine Infantry's IMC/ITB is now 14 weeks long. Before, RASP and ITB were about the same level of difficulty, but the Marine Corps has stepped it up and added 6 extra weeks as well as a more intense screening selection. Amongst the SEALs, Recon, and SF, a Ranger is the little nerd that got invited to the birthday party because his mom asked the other mom's to let him come. The Marine Corps will always be an elite fighting force. The few and the proud.
Thank you for watching the video. The Rangers are outstanding and I was fortunate to work with and serve in combat with so many of them.
Except infantry Rangers also go through 12 weeks of 11B infantry AIT and 3 weeks of Airborne school before the 8 weeks of RASP and, after time in Regiment, 8 weeks of Ranger school. All Rangers are airborne qualified and most air assault qualified. Very few Marines outside of recon can say that.
You smokin crack!
You really have no idea what you're talking about.
I'll address your nonsense. First off, an 11B (Infantryman) in the 75th Ranger Regiment will have completed 22 weeks of Infantry OSUT before attempting RASP. Not counting Airborne School, which is mandatory for Rangers, that's 30 weeks.
But secondly and more importantly, you do realize that passing RASP is only your foot in the door into the 75th Ranger Regiment? Ranger is not an MOS and there is none of that "once a Ranger, always a Ranger" shit like there is the USMC... it's "once a Ranger, you prove it every day" because 75RR a privileged assignment and you work your ass to get the privilege of staying there, because they can kick your ass out into the big Army at any time if they think you're not up to their standards. Not many units can do that.
To get treated as a human being in the 75th, you then have to get your Ranger Tab at some point, and as a SOCOM unit, you're always on deployments and doing SOCOM level course (because you've got the funded)
Thirdly, 75RR has killed/captured more HVTs than any other unit in the military. They've actually been delegated missions and responsibilities that were once the preserve of SMUs like CAG and DEVGRU to free those units up. Look it up if you don't believe me. Those boys have an insane deployment temp. Tell me what Marine grunt or even Recon battalion can say the same?
75th Ranger Regiment = Workhorse of SOCOM.
I was a Scout Sniper and BLT 3rd Recon, If you can make it in BLT Recon, you have a good chance of going Force Recon.
@steverivera7270 When were you in 3rd RECON? I was in 3rd RECON, Brovo Co 2nd plt. 78-79.
@@XtrmTJ97 Aco 3rd Recon , 1983~85, Hawaii Marine.
Do not put Taylor Cav in the show. Kicked out of the seals, joined the foreign leg and recently deserted. Can't even make it without getting into trouble.
there's nothing wrong with Taylor Cav he's putting out a good message.
@@mikesmith7497 Lol, he's a deserter. Period. Did a lot of people wrong here in France. You have not a clue..
Really?
@@80s_baby yes really. I knew him unfortunately, in France. He's a real duet bag and vina artist and pathological liar
@@Cowards_die_twiceOk for sure man i didn't know could you please let us know what he did wrong in France please?
The title of the video is Force Recon Marines vs Recon Marines yet the thumbnail for the video has an Army Ranger on one side and a Recon Marine on the other side. Congratulations, you lost your credibility without even starting the video.
Rudy Reyes was in 1st Recon Battalion Bravo company. He was not a Force Recon Marine.
The left is Kirk from the video, a Force Recon Marine. Rudy was a Recon Marine.