BUY THE STRAP-KIT that goes with this frame... plain and simple THAT is how this system works... Used one of these pretty extensively now here in the PNW (I got a prototype of the original Pack-Rabbit through an industry connection I was doing some other professional field testing for before they were made by "Sandpiper of California" and bought a "new one" shortly after when they were basically just transitioning) for everything from SAR/Wilderness EMS work to just plain fun back-packing trips to my Rafting bail-out rig, and when it's stuck with me in the city it's in the truck with an AdvFAK strapped up for emergencies and the lovely seat it provides when needed... I really love these systems, I think they're great even with a few little issues they're truly unique and just plain awesome for people who have a lot of gear and need flexibility when deciding on a specific load-out from a professional call-out to a vacation trek anywhere on the globe. HOWEVER.... I have NEVER actually used the "attached" packs own straps over the frame like is demonstrated here (maybe attached TO the frame yes, if they're removable from the base-pack, but over the top...I TRIED IT just to see and it's beyond me how you come to the conclusion that that's how it's done), and I would suggest anybody interested in this system buy the strap/load panel kit with the frame and run this as a "convertible" pack to make a lighter, internal frame pack of medium to maybe a bit larger sizes into an external frame pack/system capable of carrying more weight. That way you actually let the frame stabilize the load and your shoulders carry the weight without having the frame pressed into the back of your neck etc. That's also why the Strap kit has the excellent "yoke" style shoulder harness/straps that help distribute weight better and allow you to carry all the weight this frame is capable of... Just liek ALL the other types of systems of this sort out there (the Candain, ALLICE packs, Mystery Ranch stuff {A+ Gear MR makes and they're brother WIld-land FF guys so... } and others that use the "lightweight frame/configurable pack style system). The MULE, IMO just makes it easier having it's own lower shelf (and of course the clever seat) that allows you to more easily mount stuff up without having to have a TON of straps to get everything just right.... Throw the sleeping kit under the ruck all on top of the rope/harness/hardware-bag, strap it all down like a load of fire-wood and be GONE... plus you can stow your E-tarp/shell right there on top under the load-net... Yet another reason to buy the strap kit and DO IT RIGHT. For me I love the system because I can take a bug-out kit, add rope/tech/high-angle rescue gear/kit, a swift-water-system (I take mine rafting with me and have it set up as my "I go out this bag goes out" survival rig) etc. and add it to my system without having to swap packs. I can take a 3-4 day set-up and make it into a week-long hauler by just adding gear onto the frame that can take the weight like no "expandable" internal frame pack can despite the advertising... Plus in the steep and tight terrain we have here in the PNW US the size of this "frame" is a LOT better to deal with then traditional ext. framed packs and it's light so I don't even mind taking the weight penalty hit when I don't NEED the frame capabilities. For shooters, the frame has also made a good impromptu bench-rest and a great seat with a set of shooting sticks I could happily spend all day behind the glass sitting in with a bit of stretching here and there. I've even mounted the 10mm G20 to the frame between the pack and the frame in a Kydex holster/on a MOLLE panel for quick access in a way no internal-frame pack could be set-up because the stiffness/connection between the MOLLE, the frame and the Kydex meant the pistol was simply "right there" at my lumbar but I'd never feel it because the frame prevented it, "bridged" the holster as it were. Yeah, it limited the "suspension" part of the frame a bit and I had to tie-down the other side to limit it to the same amount of travel but... pretty sweet set-up if, like me your chest-rig space doesn't include a spot for a FS Semi-Auto Bush pistol. AGAIN: BUY THE STRAP KIT, that's how the system works... IF this is how Sandpiper is actually now telling buyers how to do it then they need to work-out the re-designs on their literature along with the last few little things on the frame still not QUITE perfect...
I don't have the frame, but do have one of their backpack's which I purchased at a Army National Guard base exchange here in my state. The backpack is nice and I love it because it carries all the items I have when going camping.
NewHampshire Bound Sorry man, I got a lot more coming. Gotta show them options LOL. I honestly feel I show stuff that anyone would be happy with though.
Living Survival You do an awesome job. You obviously script out what you need to say, speak clearly, no bs. Proper editing, etc. Some reviews are hard to watch. Yours really keeps a nice flow.
NewHampshire Bound I honestly don't script it, just have a little notebook of bullet points. Other than that it's just freestyle. If I screw up I just go again and it's mostly in the editing. Thank you for your comment, it's comments like that which keep me going. Have a great day man.
Great video on a sweet frame. The ALICE frame being slightly over 2 lbs does not commonly include the shelf. I don't have the shelf but I would guess it would be close to 8+ ounces more. So your estimate of 1lb more for this pack is likely pretty close. This pack gives you a larger shelf in back and a very useful seat. Very important to me is.. with the ALICE frame lowback belt pad.. the weight pushes into the kidney area of the back, especially if you have a longer torso. This Mule Frame eliminates that concentrated pressure with a ergo lumbar curve and the weight is shared over the larger area where the frame is in contact with much of the back.. I'm very excited about this frame. Thank you Ben.
@wolfy I couldnt reply to you on your comment but never trying the canadian one it would appear that they are similar. The pack mule does however have padding and a seat. It can accommodate larger packs I'd say up to 40-50 liter.
If you are using the shoulder straps for the regular backpack, then those shoulder straps would need to carry all the weight of the frame, in addition to the regular content, LOL! You definitely want that "accessory kit" with separate shoulder straps mounted on the actual frame... Or am i missing something here??? That seat looks nice though. Even though it is really low, i believe that angled/laid back position will make it a very comfortable chair. EDIT... Just found out it is plastic... Im sure it is strong enough for my needs, but i still prefer metal...
I recently got a look at one of these backpacks and store and compared it side-by-side by the original Alice frame pack alice fram pack was lighter Better Built as not as comfortable as that but I went with the Alice frame
You mentioned the A.L.I.C.E. pack several times (you never showed it with the ALICE PACK). The frame seems like a great concept, HOWEVER, it appears too rounded on the top, I would buy them for my A.L.I.C.E. packs if it were more squared on the top like the ALICE Frame for a correct fit. I would also need to see that it is the correct width for the ALICE pack to slide over it.
Would this frame work with a FILBE USMC system?? I'm a woman with a fairly short torso, and the current frame on my bag does not work for me. Any help you can provide would be great!
Hi, I just watched the video, but there is one thing you forgot to add. According to the instructions on the frame, the packs original straps and lumbar belts are not used, they are folded back between the pack and the frame. The straps you showed are used to connect the frame to your body, along with a lumbar belt system that they sell. The tie down straps on the frame are used to connect the pack to the frame, or you can use their connecting kit which contains various tie down clips, straps and buckles.....
Thanks for a great review. After watching your review a while ago I went ahead and bought one. Great product and your review hit it head on. Now I'm trying to figure out all that I can haul with this.
Great review mate thank you. I'm looking at buying that Frost River Jnr pack and thought this frame system would be a good idea. I like the idea of a frame and waist belt for the FR pack. Did you attached the Frost River pack? Does it fit well? Is it easily fitted etc? And thanks again for your consistently good reviews.
Wow, only $99 ! I'm loving this item. I would like to see a torture test on it though. I'm not too worried about the frame material, but the mechanisms need a long test to their breaking point.
Looks good I have the larger frost river royal pack and I love it but sometimes I wish it had a frame and I hate their basket option do you think it would fit that pack. I see that it looks perfect of the Jr
+Living Survival Thanks for the info I will have to look into it. As I said I love the frost river pack but when you fill it for a longer trip it can be a little uncomfortable and a removable frame would give me the best of both words
***** Yep, with 140lbs weight limit to work with it would work just fine. My hunting bag is a chest rig anyway so this will work swell. Thanks for checking in and the comment.
clever innovation, did you trying this on real wild area?.. cuz i wanna buy one, but still got confuse about its comfort. cuz i've been using internal frame for a years.
David Mm It is fairly comfortable for being just a frame. Certainly not as comfortable with a pack that has thicker padding. I wonder if you could add some strips of foam to make it better if it wasn't comfortable. For me it is comfortable enough and much more so than I initially expected.
This is a near and dear topic to me, since my camping backpack is god for only thing - hiking camping, and my china-made assault packs started failing on me as of about a month ago (latest get out). I have to say that the frame is pretty tempting to get. My alternative is the Canadian Army Rucksack system: webbingbabel.blogspot.com/2014/04/canadian-army-rucksack-cargo-pack-pack.html The one problem I have with the item in review is that its "too small" for my purposes. I am a mule, when it comes to hauling gear. been doing it for years and gotten decent at it. I can haul 60+ pounds uphill in a sprint. That being said, I do like the option of the chair system for smaller getouts. What are your thoughts on comparison between the modular systems? I still remain unconvinced and do like my idea with CAR, but its great to know there are alternatives.
Looks like one of the most versatile pack systems I've seen in a while.
Survival On Purpose if you need or want a frame system, this one is the cat's meow.
I wish they never discontinued this frame system! Rare as hens teeth to find nowadays! Bring it back Sand piper! GEN 3??
Pack Rabbit sells these frames, and they're the original manufacturer.
BUY THE STRAP-KIT that goes with this frame... plain and simple THAT is how this system works...
Used one of these pretty extensively now here in the PNW (I got a prototype of the original Pack-Rabbit through an industry connection I was doing some other professional field testing for before they were made by "Sandpiper of California" and bought a "new one" shortly after when they were basically just transitioning) for everything from SAR/Wilderness EMS work to just plain fun back-packing trips to my Rafting bail-out rig, and when it's stuck with me in the city it's in the truck with an AdvFAK strapped up for emergencies and the lovely seat it provides when needed... I really love these systems, I think they're great even with a few little issues they're truly unique and just plain awesome for people who have a lot of gear and need flexibility when deciding on a specific load-out from a professional call-out to a vacation trek anywhere on the globe.
HOWEVER.... I have NEVER actually used the "attached" packs own straps over the frame like is demonstrated here (maybe attached TO the frame yes, if they're removable from the base-pack, but over the top...I TRIED IT just to see and it's beyond me how you come to the conclusion that that's how it's done), and I would suggest anybody interested in this system buy the strap/load panel kit with the frame and run this as a "convertible" pack to make a lighter, internal frame pack of medium to maybe a bit larger sizes into an external frame pack/system capable of carrying more weight. That way you actually let the frame stabilize the load and your shoulders carry the weight without having the frame pressed into the back of your neck etc. That's also why the Strap kit has the excellent "yoke" style shoulder harness/straps that help distribute weight better and allow you to carry all the weight this frame is capable of... Just liek ALL the other types of systems of this sort out there (the Candain, ALLICE packs, Mystery Ranch stuff {A+ Gear MR makes and they're brother WIld-land FF guys so... } and others that use the "lightweight frame/configurable pack style system). The MULE, IMO just makes it easier having it's own lower shelf (and of course the clever seat) that allows you to more easily mount stuff up without having to have a TON of straps to get everything just right.... Throw the sleeping kit under the ruck all on top of the rope/harness/hardware-bag, strap it all down like a load of fire-wood and be GONE... plus you can stow your E-tarp/shell right there on top under the load-net... Yet another reason to buy the strap kit and DO IT RIGHT.
For me I love the system because I can take a bug-out kit, add rope/tech/high-angle rescue gear/kit, a swift-water-system (I take mine rafting with me and have it set up as my "I go out this bag goes out" survival rig) etc. and add it to my system without having to swap packs. I can take a 3-4 day set-up and make it into a week-long hauler by just adding gear onto the frame that can take the weight like no "expandable" internal frame pack can despite the advertising... Plus in the steep and tight terrain we have here in the PNW US the size of this "frame" is a LOT better to deal with then traditional ext. framed packs and it's light so I don't even mind taking the weight penalty hit when I don't NEED the frame capabilities. For shooters, the frame has also made a good impromptu bench-rest and a great seat with a set of shooting sticks I could happily spend all day behind the glass sitting in with a bit of stretching here and there. I've even mounted the 10mm G20 to the frame between the pack and the frame in a Kydex holster/on a MOLLE panel for quick access in a way no internal-frame pack could be set-up because the stiffness/connection between the MOLLE, the frame and the Kydex meant the pistol was simply "right there" at my lumbar but I'd never feel it because the frame prevented it, "bridged" the holster as it were. Yeah, it limited the "suspension" part of the frame a bit and I had to tie-down the other side to limit it to the same amount of travel but... pretty sweet set-up if, like me your chest-rig space doesn't include a spot for a FS Semi-Auto Bush pistol.
AGAIN: BUY THE STRAP KIT, that's how the system works... IF this is how Sandpiper is actually now telling buyers how to do it then they need to work-out the re-designs on their literature along with the last few little things on the frame still not QUITE perfect...
Take a seat in the woods with you!
I don't have the frame, but do have one of their backpack's which I purchased at a Army National Guard base exchange here in my state. The backpack is nice and I love it because it carries all the items I have when going camping.
Really versatile frame! Nice to have a seat that lifts you off the ground! Also it looks kinda comfy as well! So there's a bonus!
Jason McDaniel Right on.
I have one. Love it!
Looks like a good product, Ben. Thanks for spotlighting it.
Lellobeetle thanks for checking it out.
Dude, you have to stop doing reviews before I go broke! This item is better than sliced bread! Right up my alley.
NewHampshire Bound Sorry man, I got a lot more coming. Gotta show them options LOL. I honestly feel I show stuff that anyone would be happy with though.
Living Survival
You do an awesome job. You obviously script out what you need to say, speak clearly, no bs. Proper editing, etc. Some reviews are hard to watch. Yours really keeps a nice flow.
NewHampshire Bound I honestly don't script it, just have a little notebook of bullet points. Other than that it's just freestyle. If I screw up I just go again and it's mostly in the editing. Thank you for your comment, it's comments like that which keep me going. Have a great day man.
I've been looking for something like that. Thanks for the video.
Quickhatch Knives thanks for checking it out.
Great video on a sweet frame. The ALICE frame being slightly over 2 lbs does not commonly include the shelf. I don't have the shelf but I would guess it would be close to 8+ ounces more. So your estimate of 1lb more for this pack is likely pretty close. This pack gives you a larger shelf in back and a very useful seat. Very important to me is.. with the ALICE frame lowback belt pad.. the weight pushes into the kidney area of the back, especially if you have a longer torso. This Mule Frame eliminates that concentrated pressure with a ergo lumbar curve and the weight is shared over the larger area where the frame is in contact with much of the back.. I'm very excited about this frame. Thank you Ben.
Dr. Rod Smith that's what I figured :) thanks for the help and comment.
@wolfy I couldnt reply to you on your comment but never trying the canadian one it would appear that they are similar. The pack mule does however have padding and a seat. It can accommodate larger packs I'd say up to 40-50 liter.
TJack add me on FB so I can message you regarding an upcoming video.
Sent!
This pack/frame looks so amazing. Why is it that it is not more popular? What am I missing?
Price, maybe?
If you are using the shoulder straps for the regular backpack, then those shoulder straps would need to carry all the weight of the frame, in addition to the regular content, LOL! You definitely want that "accessory kit" with separate shoulder straps mounted on the actual frame... Or am i missing something here??? That seat looks nice though. Even though it is really low, i believe that angled/laid back position will make it a very comfortable chair.
EDIT... Just found out it is plastic... Im sure it is strong enough for my needs, but i still prefer metal...
Interesting System bro!
Jarhead6 thanks for taking a look brother.
I recently got a look at one of these backpacks and store and compared it side-by-side by the original Alice frame pack alice fram pack was lighter Better Built as not as comfortable as that but I went with the Alice frame
You mentioned the A.L.I.C.E. pack several times (you never showed it with the ALICE PACK). The frame seems like a great concept, HOWEVER, it appears too rounded on the top, I would buy them for my A.L.I.C.E. packs if it were more squared on the top like the ALICE Frame for a correct fit. I would also need to see that it is the correct width for the ALICE pack to slide over it.
did you ever attach the spec ops alice pack to this frame and how did it fair if you did?
Definately one cool pack frame.
MI Timberwookie for sure, thanks.
Wish it was still available.
Very cool... I might have to get one of those.
Skills2Survive thanks for watching.
How do you keep the straps from slipping and sliding?
Would this frame work with a FILBE USMC system?? I'm a woman with a fairly short torso, and the current frame on my bag does not work for me. Any help you can provide would be great!
Know where I can get one? I don't think they're available anymore.
I really like it
Over the years are you still using this frame? Do you recommend it still?
Hi, I just watched the video, but there is one thing you forgot to add. According to the instructions on the frame, the packs original straps and lumbar belts are not used, they are folded back between the pack and the frame. The straps you showed are used to connect the frame to your body, along with a lumbar belt system that they sell. The tie down straps on the frame are used to connect the pack to the frame, or you can use their connecting kit which contains various tie down clips, straps and buckles.....
you can do it either way.
So cool! Would be great for turkey hunting.
Deep South Experience yes it would.
Hey Ben do you know why this has been discontinued?
Would this fit the MOLLE2 Multicam large or medium ruck?
Thanks for a great review. After watching your review a while ago I went ahead and bought one. Great product and your review hit it head on. Now I'm trying to figure out all that I can haul with this.
+Gerald Daniels awesome, thanks for the comment!
5:03 What is that "any other brand" pack? Lol it looks interesting. Love the reverse/low profile MOLLE/PALS webbing slots.
kpw528 dragon egg pack, did a review a few videos ago on it.
Thanks! I'll look up the video.
kpw528 i'ts my all time favorite out of all the packs I have reviewed in that size range.
Great review mate thank you. I'm looking at buying that Frost River Jnr pack and thought this frame system would be a good idea. I like the idea of a frame and waist belt for the FR pack. Did you attached the Frost River pack? Does it fit well? Is it easily fitted etc?
And thanks again for your consistently good reviews.
+g ride yes you can mod it to work with the frost river.
Wow, only $99 ! I'm loving this item. I would like to see a torture test on it though. I'm not too worried about the frame material, but the mechanisms need a long test to their breaking point.
NewHampshire Bound Hmm, might just have to do that. Is really solid though.
What is the mule frame made out off ?
Good video. :)
Thanks Julia.
Looks good I have the larger frost river royal pack and I love it but sometimes I wish it had a frame and I hate their basket option do you think it would fit that pack. I see that it looks perfect of the Jr
+Rick Foley i have the jr. and it works good for that. would probably be ok for the regular. have you seen the alice frame modded for it?
+Living Survival Thanks for the info I will have to look into it. As I said I love the frost river pack but when you fill it for a longer trip it can be a little uncomfortable and a removable frame would give me the best of both words
Rick Foley Mine is the same way.
What happened to this product, SanPiper doesnt sell these any longer?
Does the pack mule work on the dragon egg pack ? What do you suggest adding to that setup. Great reviews
+Matthew Turgeon it will work but the pack mule can take on a larger pack better.
That would be nice for deer hunting with the strap kit they sell!
Could tie a deer right to the back and carry him out!
***** Yep, with 140lbs weight limit to work with it would work just fine. My hunting bag is a chest rig anyway so this will work swell. Thanks for checking in and the comment.
Do you think the USMC pack might be able to fit on this frame or would it be too big in your opinion?
the assault pack would but the full ILBE is better with stock frame. an alice pack would.
Did they go out of business??
You didn't say what size frame...??
Integral seat, Dat added value.
Jaysun Duran Dat true.
clever innovation, did you trying this on real wild area?.. cuz i wanna buy one, but still got confuse about its comfort. cuz i've been using internal frame for a years.
dungokunyet it's comfortable for a large frame but I would only recommend if you use a frame.
Living Survival ok. thank you for replying.
хорошо )))))))))))))))
One of my buddy's carries a tripod stool in a molle shotgun scabbard
Franklin Pengelly that would work!
When sitting on a rock or log just wont cut it 😅
I think its a really cool idea but it doesnt look very comfortable. The padding could be thicker and more ergonomic.
David Mm It is fairly comfortable for being just a frame. Certainly not as comfortable with a pack that has thicker padding. I wonder if you could add some strips of foam to make it better if it wasn't comfortable. For me it is comfortable enough and much more so than I initially expected.
This is a near and dear topic to me, since my camping backpack is god for only thing - hiking camping, and my china-made assault packs started failing on me as of about a month ago (latest get out).
I have to say that the frame is pretty tempting to get.
My alternative is the Canadian Army Rucksack system: webbingbabel.blogspot.com/2014/04/canadian-army-rucksack-cargo-pack-pack.html
The one problem I have with the item in review is that its "too small" for my purposes. I am a mule, when it comes to hauling gear. been doing it for years and gotten decent at it. I can haul 60+ pounds uphill in a sprint.
That being said, I do like the option of the chair system for smaller getouts.
What are your thoughts on comparison between the modular systems? I still remain unconvinced and do like my idea with CAR, but its great to know there are alternatives.
Would be perfect for Fishing when you want to sit down for a while.. & To prevent swamp-butt !
PREPFORIT would be great for that yes.
Can you say turkey season!!
SUFFICIENT SURVIVAL i saw two on the way out of the woods LOL.
SUFFICIENT SURVIVAL exactly what I was thinking!
The best thing soc could do is ditch California from the name.
Of course why sell a whole pack when you can sell it in two piece it’s not a pack without straps and hip belt
Too bad it has been discontinued
Don’t understand why it was discontinued. Vary disappointing
It’s now sold under Pack Rabbit. Pricey, but I can now sit comfortably with no back issues while yote hunting.
Calm down
it looks like a gimmick
GreenJanuary thanks for your input.
I wouldn't buy anything from California, so no, I'm not waiting to get my hands on one.