Safe to say that Kizaru is stronger than Ray at this point but not by much. If Prime Rayleigh's the standard of overall battle power at 100%, Old Rayleigh is 50% of his prime the Kizaru's surely around 60-70%. I'm also assuming that Prime Ray is also around current Shanks, Mihawk and Kaido's level. With Roger and Primebeard around 110-120% Prime Ray? I trust Rayleigh's comparison of himself vs Blackbeard, which I'm also guessing is around Kizaru's level. While Big Meme's loss was a joke, it was clear she never went out vs Kidd/Law and had to be thrown off the island while she still has plenty of fight left in her. My guess is 70-80%.
Nah I think everyone is forgetting something. Kizaru said himself that the government aka him, wasn’t ready to fight Dark King Ray-that he’d need back up and this and that. Also when proven that Rayleigh wasn’t going all out, the rebuttal can’t be the anime didn’t show haki coating--he 100% clearly wasn’t going all out. And how’d he get away if Kizaru could just pack em up.
@@Eden0211 , if Kizaru truly is faster than instant teleportation itself like Luffy then he'd be able to finish off the Strawhat Pirates during their timeskip, which he didn't do so, so he's a fraud, and the admiral agenda is fraudulent behavior.
The real question here is if Kizaru was smokin sum of dat ZAZA before the sabaody 1v1. Aint no way bro rode onto the scene on a cannonball in his frame of mind 💀💀
Ray had a lesser level of do not engage then Kaido, but he did seem to have some. The marines were content to just let him stay there as long as he didn't cause too much trouble, but him being there wasn't enough to make them halt operations in an area.
They sent all of their troops to kill a Whitebeard that wasn't in his prime though, so I agree with Larence would they send all of their troops to go kill Whitebeard on an international news broadcast despite Whitebeard being as chill as Rayleigh, but they don't want to send all of their troops on Rayleigh because either the Marines are frauds, or they just don't have the biggest powerhouses pirates do.
I think they actually did send troops on Sabaody to look for Rayleigh after Marineford but they didn’t find him because Rayleigh was absent for 6 months to train Luffy
It's because they know a WB is stronger than garp and sengoku they know both are needed to stop WB just like shiki regardless of the cope people have WB is the only man to stand toe to toe with PK roger garp didn't make it
So something I noticed wasn’t mentioned for Rayleigh is from his perspective kuma spilt the beans to him about the plan otherwise he might have packed up kizaru. Dark king used conquerors haki and made black beard shake from thinking about his past, that alone confirms he even in that state would be a high diff for any in the top of the verse. I think Rayleigh could win here and the fact you believe what Zoro is suppose to become is gonna look so pessimistic against admirals in old age is crazy.
The thing I gotta say, is you don’t have to be as strong as a yonko to be a yonko. I think the old guys are still admiral and yonko level they just got weaker over time but still in the same tier as the new yonko and admiral but at the bottom not every admiral and yonko are on the same fighting style or strength. They all fight differently
Garp said himself that the « Marines » couldn’t handle two legends like Whitebeard and Rayleigh at the same time. Why would he say that if Kizaru or any other admiral could beat him ? Just like the Marines needed 3/4 of their forces to handle WB and his crew, it would've required at least 2 admirals to defeat Rayleigh (or at least Garp himself or Akainu)
Lmao y’all can’t be serious? Rayleigh would be a problem if they had to deal with him they needed all hands on deck. Kizaru could beat him but he’d have to sink the island or do serious damage
@@LaceKing7 i’m just pointing out canon elements that are actually in the manga 🤷🏽♂️ Kizaru said he couldn’t capture Rayleigh without a plan and Garp confirmed that Rayleigh was a legend that the Marines couldn’t handle at the same time as WB. Those are facts. Kizaru can’t beat Rayleigh
I’m sorry but everytime Kizaru has a vs, he handicapped or not serious. Him throwing his hands up at Ben Beckmen, Luffy: can fight luffy, can have no collateral damage, and Rayleigh: clearly not trying. Only one I can give is Marco
@@luffylength thinking the guy who started panting moments into "fighting" kizaru who was just dicking around and admitted to being lesser to Blackbeard, wins against AKAINU or Kuzan is crazy. Especially seeing what Kizaru can do. Rayleigh is pretty clearly a cut underneath those kind of characters
What did Kizaru do. Shooting laser beam that even sentomaru could dodge, run away during his fight with luffy, and when luffy finally hit him with just one attack (same attack that Kaido took multiple times) he got knocked out. 😂
@@luffylength oh yes. The ONLY way to scale is if someone says they're weaker than someone. If you can't see the importance of actual on screen feats and showings then I don't know what to tell you
You all need to remember how Oda introduced Haki so late in OP. The Marines had the ability to access Wano, obvious with Drake "Sword" feeding information as well as CP able to hang in Kaido's fortress. Black Beard still seems intimidated by Rayleigh as well.
The net positive for taking the bounty off rayleigh's head is that his name would inspire people, if pirates knew of his whereabouts they'd flock around him
Pirates would still continue being with or without Rayleigh having a bounty placed on his head, but Rayleigh is neither a major threat to the general public world of One Piece like Luffy and Zoro are nor he is a major threat to the World Government like Buggy is unless he can solo the Admirals at his old and peaceful life.
The One Piece community has really made terms like "one-shot" and "two-shot" completely meaningless. Applying them to situations where it took like 1,000,000 punches to land the "one-shot", and applying them to situations where the victim is actually still conscious and able to fight afterwards.
I'm on Larry and Seb's side. Kizaru is packing up Rayleigh, but I wish Seb wouldn't lie abou "Rayleigh got a clean hit on Kizaru." No he did not. There is a massive difference from full on connecting quake punches VS barely touching the tip of my blade against you cheek. Not once did Ray full on get his sword across Kizaru to actually do damage.
Old Rayliegh is the most overscaled character in op. Ive seen guys argue he beats Gear 5 luffy and extreme diffs Kaido. Weve seen the drop off age causes in OP. If old Ray is taking out yonkos and packing up admirals then he shoulda been the captain not roger lmao.
Kuzan was sandbagging against Garp, that was a son fighting against his father. He ALLOWED Garp to go off, complete his mission, as soon as that was done, he put Garp to bed. Won’t even talk about Garp’s performance against the Titanic commanders 😅
You mean the same Titanic Commanders that couldn’t land a hit on Garp without using Koby as a decoy to stab him ? You do realize Kuzan didn’t touch Garp once before he was stabbed right. The first blow he gave him was after he was weakened by his wound
@@nobody42071 Decoy? Come come Nobody, that naivety is for Koby. Shiryu meant to kill Koby that was the whole deal, Garp sensed it and went to intercept Shiryu BUT was too slow/weak to use haki to block the attack. My dude, did you not see a bruised up Garp? If Kuzan hadn’t done that to him then who did? Vasco? He was screwing around spiting fire balls from long range, Shiryu? Nah he was invincible the entire fight, Garp didn’t even know he was there. Pazzaro? He WAS the island the entire time. So it had to be Kuzan….unless….you believe random fodder did that to him…🤭 I would accept Kuzan unless you want to embarrass Garp further
Kuzan sandbagging? what cope. Garp only told Kuzan to live in the now because Kuzan asked Garp if he could kill his old student to protect his new one. Garp replied with I taught you to live in the now because Garp was letting Kuzan know the answer was obvious. And when fresh Garp one shotted Kuzan. Kuzan was out of commission long enough for them to get the boat back in the ocean, have Sanjuan thrown in the ocean, and have the prisoner loaded in the ship before Kuzan was able to approach Garp again after he finally got up. Named attacks are stronger than unnamed attacks. It took a named attack in “ice glove” to match up evenly with an unnamed punch of Garp’s. If you need a named attack to match up evenly with an unnamed attack you’re weaker than that person. Further evidence Kuzan was sandbagging is that Kuzan opened on Garp using the same move he opened on wb with. Old Garp > Kuzan. It’s why Kuzan needed help to defeat Garp in the end.
I really wanna say rayleigh would win based on what we’ve seen from him against bounce man and blackbeard but he was shown sweating in the manga during the kizaru fight while kizaru wasnt. Rayleigh said he wasnt fast enough to deal with kizaru and kuma and kizaru said not to say that because it makes him look bad. But at that age Rayleigh probably doesnt have the stamina to keep up with kizaru in a long fight and escaping wouldve been unlikely so Rayleigh wouldve had to essentially burst him down or one shot him and it possible he could with his conquerers haki but we just havent seen Rayleigh go all out especially his current age. It just hard to judge rayleighs true power and how durable kizaru is. We havent seen enough to know who wins but kizaru definitely has the stamina advantage so ill give him the edge.
If people believe Roger would Still be Yonko level just sitting on an island drinking. I think there’s a good case for Rayleigh being close to roger still
I know Garp is Roger rival but he ain’t show enough on BB island for me to see it fr. Say what you want bout WB but his display at MarineFord was wayy more than what Garp did.
The problems with arguments like these is that Oda himself doesn’t know, or at the time vastly overscaled some of these characters. If we go by what we actually saw then an old, almost dead Whitebeard was stronger than any current Yonko, since it needed all three admirals, garp, sengoku, Mihawk etc to stop him, which is obviously ridiculous as (if we go by narrative) mihawk himself should be able to easily beat an old whitebeard and skink shouldn’t have been packed up as he was.
This hole reyleigh vs kizaru depends on if reyleigh was using the same power he did when he stop Blackbeard from hurting boa handcock, which we don't know cuz they wasn't showing haki of that level yet. And there's the thing of reyleigh being old and not picking up his sword. Low stamina.
Ngl Not suprised that Seb and Larry are in unison like this and honestly even if Ray could pack Kizaru up he was too worried about Luffy, Luffy's crew, and what Kuma said to him. its also crazy how Larry and Seb who are hyping up akainu when Kizaru should be stronger because technically Kizaru was a higher rank than him and the oldest admiral that alone should show that Rayleigh vs Kizaru is debatable, I'm not saying Akainu is weaker I'm just saying Kizaru is overrated and honestly dissapointing.
@@ryanpanda7563 don't get me wrong I know I hope he's not overrated but to me right now it's just Rayleigh vs Kizaru is very debatable bc at the end of the day they both wanted to avoid conflict it's implied and said specifically by both Kizaru and Rayleigh. Also I think tbh he's a very complicated marine like Garp but so insecure and indecisive character. Which I don't but I want more context from Oda ofh8s backstory.
There would Be no reason for raylighe to be holding back if he was so worried about the sh he should pack up kizaru for the sh to escape not hold back on kizaru so he can take out the sh
@@alex._5406 so let me give you another scenario from bleach shunsui kyoraku and ukitake coyote stark and his arranger buddy. Are we to say in that scenario Coyote Stark doesn't stand in the same sight as Kizaru?
@@mohammedlire2045 what😭 ur comparing bleach to op which are very different in aspects if Rayligeh was so worried he would hold back on kizaru so then kizaru could go attack them?
Whiteboard was a Yonko,just the bare minimum,but he was far from the World strongest Man. His devil fruit was so disgusting that it bridged the gap between his physical deficiencies. Much like how Big mom’s devil fruit is so powerful she didn’t have to utilize ACoC.
Honestly i think Big Mom gets more milage out of her monsterous physical strength and her indestructible skin then her devil Fruit. But her fruit is top tier for sure and i'd have liked to see her go even more crazy with it.
@@Brian0033 for defensive abilities sure, but without her fruit she's to big and slow to be fighting anyone lol she wouldn't be able to keep up, i don't see her landing regular haki punches on kid, luffy or law, they're too fast
@@Brian0033 Before Wano I’d agree,but I just think her monstrous strength prevents her from dying EVERY SINGLE TIME she falls from ridiculous heights. Her devil fruit was putting pressure on not only Law & Kidd but everyone in the area. I still say Law & Kidd got a TKO via ringout,but even their devil fruits seemed minuscule comparatively. She could’ve healed herself again,thanks to the bystanders,if not for Law.
Garp absolutely was not beating everyone at Hajinosu. Even before he got stabbed he literally only beat Sanjuan Wolf. He was also already in an endurance fight with Aokiji since they both return with bruises and less clothes so the idea Garp was clean until Shiryu stab is just false. Aokiji also was barely using his fruit so all around, Garp was not ever going to win that fight stab or not. He probably would have gotten off the island though.
1. Garp could’ve beat everyone on Hachinosu. He didn’t because they were keeping their distances. Vasco Shot shooted a fire ball and ran away. Shilliew also ran away after stabbing Garp and Pizarro wasn’t even in real danger since his real body doesn’t get the same damage as the Island. 4/5 of the Commanders were avoiding direct confrontation with Garp and the 5th was getting beat up until Garp got weakened. 2. Garp got rid of Kuzan in chapter 1081 with his blue hole (he had no bruises at the time. In chapter 1087, Garp has knocked out Sanjuan Wolf and has bruises on him (Kuzan only came back on the 3rd page). Just after Kuzan came back, Shilliew stabed Garp. That’s when Kuzan attacks him for the second time (since Blue Hole). Garp was already weakened when Kuzan landed his first punch. In chapter 1088, Garp outspeeds Kuzan and uses Galaxy Divide on Pizarro. Just after that, we see he’s not feeling good. On the last panel, he is frozen on the floor with the BB Pirates surrounding him. So, no it’s the stab that sealed his fate 3. Aokiji wasn’t using his fruit because it was useless on Garp until he had a big opened wound in the stomach.
@@nobody42071 1. You are contradicting yourself massively. You say Aokiji was out and that Garp was getting damaged by the other pirates but then started your argument saying that Garp could have beat the other pirates easily and they just stayed away from him. 2. Blue Hole never knocked Kuzan out. We literally have proof of this since more people than just Hibari got freezed by Aokiji within the time we didn’t see Hajinosu and its return. 3. Aokiji literally says you guys can’t do anything to him so it’s quite obvious he was doing the work not the other pirates until Shiryu stabbed Garp. 4. Kuzan’s fruit would have worked fine vs Garp. There is literally nothing but head canon that says it wouldn’t have worked against him since Aokiji was spamming it against Akainu enough to change the weather and Akainu is literally a lava man with confirmed advanced haki. We even have literal evidence that Kuzan’s ice dealt damage to Akainu since Akainu has scars from their battle and we know that bare hands don’t cause scars since not a single fighter in the entire show has caused scars by brawling. Hence an ice attack had to have cut Akainu’s skin and so there is no excuse why Kuzan’s ice would not have worked vs Garp.
@@triple466 Raleigh was running out of stamina against just Kizaru. How is he going to be nearly as dangerous as White Beard who could use a devil fruit that allowed him to be so much more dangerous than Raleigh.
Just cause he has the title doesn't mean he was at the same level as the others, it is not that hard to figure that Whitebeard would lose to any Yonko at that point. Buggy also has the title of Yonko, does that mean he is Yonko level? No.
You guys are forgetting that Grap even spoke that the Marines been knew of his location but they couldn’t afford to send the men after Reyleigh. All the characters you guys have mentioned know how strong Reyleigh is known to be as the right hand to the PK. It doesn’t matter of his age at first glance if you know what kind of knowledge this man has when it comes to Haki and fighting itself. Even in his old age, he was able to defend off an admiral without breaking a sweat. Mind you he’s not trying to defeat the admiral he’s only trying to defend him off, so the straw hats can escape. That’s a big difference. Sebastian if he does take out the admiral, the marines will send more and that’s a bigger headache when you’re trying to allow someone to escape, and you will be the only person fighting off in Armada of Marines. Use common sense think like a criminal because that’s what Pirates are. Yes, he stated he couldn’t beat Blackbeard, but I think that’s mostly due to the fact of fighting a person with two devil fruits, which has never been heard of and a person using a devil fruit which you have never faced before on top of the fact old age doesn’t allow one to hold longevity in a fight against someone keep in mind Blackbeard was a kid when the Roger Pirates and the Whitebeard Pirate meet on that island. Reyleigh was above Yonko level due to his knowledge and skills. Kiado said it best “ONLY the STRONGEST HAKI will rule the SEAS”. Haki matters especially Conquers Haki. NONE of the Admirals have shown they can do anything against a flex of Conquers Haki Technically Snake man is Luffy’s strongest gear 4th form Great video you guys had some good points tho 😂. Also Whitebread took 4 shoots 3 from Akainu 1 in the face, 2 in the abdominal section and a stab from his own subordinate.
Rayleigh would not go all out against kizaru bc he doesn't want to influence the new era too much, the only reason he interefered with blackbeard as example is because ''he really does not like him'', rayleigh wants to give the new era, the new pirates a chance to write there own story, and influence it as little as possible.
Not on anysides me personally I think it can go either way buttt I will say this, "no.1 rule of anime never slack on the old guy" i will never forget tat rule
He was just chilling na he was in hiding and the marines knew he was there saw no point in wasting marines on someone who's doing nothing more than drinking and gambling
I'm going to say that if both Kizaru and Rayleigh were to duke it out to the death, that it would probably end with ether both of them dining or Rayleigh winning by the skin of his teeth.
On a power scale of 100, I believe Rayleigh to be atleast 93 if Roger was 95, so even if Whitebeard would have edge he’d take Rayleigh v sincerely. Then the fact that WB would cause more damage than Rayleigh’s would, ofc yes, cuz he has more brute strength, but that is only one component of a persons combat skill and Rayleigh is an exceptionally skilled fighter, a very balanced one indeed, and this true about WB even in comparison to Roger, but Roger and Rayleigh might not be as huge or brutish like WB, but their Haki prowess allowed them deal with monstrous foes. Third Rayleigh is shown to be very rational, he wasn’t going for the kill, the admiral knew who he was dealing with, and Rayleigh also knows his limits, when he says he is at his limit he is being humble, thats not his full strength, Kizaru knew that and he didn’t act too cocky…had it escalated, Kizaru might have won maybe, but that’d be a fight you’d not want to fight…Kizaru as of today might be an even match to Prime Rayleigh,
Rayleigh is yonko level rn he may can't beat bb but I for sure know he can beat big mom only reason he held back kizaru and not stomp him is for the story and he didn't have the intense amounts of all 3 adv forms of haki just like wb in pre timeskip
Theres a reason the marines dont go after rayleigh... The losses would be too much. Garp clearly said the marines cant take 2 legends like whitebeard and rayleigh at the same time. Rayleigh would 💯 body at least 1 admiral maybe 2.
I think that Kizaru would've beaten him if he was going serious all the time. But if Kizaru kept his unseriousness, Rayleigh would've beaten him I think, at least that's what narrativey implied imo.
Kizaru was serious, CDs were attacked. Kizaru's face got cut from the clash. Rayleigh couldn't defeat him because he won't have his peaceful life anymore (that's why he asked him first, if he can let them just walk away, then asked him if they can remove his bounty). Rayleigh is defeating Kizaru.
@@shadoow411 relax fanboy.. Rayleigh only cut Kizaru when Kizaru was going after Zoro..in a straight face off Rayleigh couldn't even do a single scratch on him and was out of breath...Pretty sure Oda implied Kizaru stronger than Rayleigh..
@@villain8522it’s the other way around Lmao, Kizaru himself stated that he can’t defeat Rayleigh without Help! And even kizaru got so angry that he captured 500 pirates! But why didn’t he capture Rayleigh if he could beat him! Because he can’t lmao
You are probably talking about Newgate, right? I am sorry bro but Kaidou is washing marineford Whitebeard and so is Shanks. Linlin is debatable, but I think she would win too.
“Strongest bounty hunter technically BlackBeard” 😭😭😭😭 The Show just basically says Rayleigh is a legend, he has clout and can hang but he can’t finish against Yonkos or Admirals. Mfs downplay Law, Kidd and Marco but wank off old Rayleigh and old Garp based off prestige. Prime may be a tad different but old currently he is packing up YC1s at best but nothing further and I’m a bigger Rayleigh fan than kizaru so 🤷
The show said WB the only man to stand toe to toe with PK roger but u say garp that lvl the show said the WG had to make the warlords to ballance the power of them and a yonko crew how this possible is garp and sengoku equal to the strongest pirate's and the WG has 2 of them clearly they wasn't prime roger and WB lvl
How people miss it confuses me. The WG isn't equal to the yonkou. They GREATLY over power them. There's a reason they're the ones in charge of the world and the yonkou only have territories within that. It's only when the other territories group up that they're actually a bigger total threat. The WG need to keep control. They can't just be more powerful. They need to be OVERWHELMINGLY more powerful. So that when (like whitebeard) yonkou approach, even with all his allies+revolutionaries+impel down escapees AND the warlords either doing, nothing, almost nothing or literally going against them. The WG still killed Ace as they planned, AND killed Whitebeard AND Akainu was literally fighting the entire whitebeard pirates on his own. 3 admirals +Garp+sengoku+the warlords at the time. The WG was the clear winner of that war (untill Blackbeard by he's a dark horse)
@@yaseennechat4090 this why they shook when 2 joined forces and u missed my point if garp was equal to prime WB why he say all the forces are needed and it not possible to deal with Rayleigh couldn't he got himself? Or him sengoku and 2 admiral's plus warlords deal with the war? No because he not prime WB lvl this why it's needed and not possible to spare anyone
@@yaseennechat4090 and skipping the fact WB got betrayed and stabbed in the chest had a heart attack mid fight and was weaker just from being sick in general may help u but all it shows is why garp wasn't his lvl he looked way worse vs weaker people not betrayed and no HA plus not sick
Roger said himself that him and Garp almost killed themselves in their fights, if that is not being on par with Roger, I don't know what is. Yes, Roger was probably slightly stronger but mind you, Roger was stronger than Newgate too.
Facts somone that use brain ,thank god i'm not the only one ,prime wb and prime roger are above any soldier the navy has prime garp and sengoku are not equal to those guys shiki himself couldn't believe the navy capture roger it's clear as crystal
@@michaelwright8896 So ur tiny brain is basically saying old sick whitebeard is equal to prime shanks in combat you think they would tie. Try harder lil brat
@@samuelthe13why Sabo? and I mean this fight could go either way, some people say kizaru was holding back when rayleigh didn’t use advanced armament or conquerors, plus kizaru admitted he needs to prepare if he wanted to stop him, at the end he could and he was so angry that he stopped hundreds of pirates to calm down. On the other side rayleigh couldn’t help more the straw hats. It clearly shows that they’re relatives
Kizaru can beat Rayleigh extreme diff, cuz first Kizaru is freaking strong, second Rayleigh is old and not as strong as he used to be…. Why he needed back up, cuz your hands are full, and there are other fishes to catch, the one you’re dealing with won’t let you multi-task.. Kizaru as he was on Sabaody would be max mid~hard diff challenge for young Rayleigh…. As he is today, it’d be an equal matchup….
Crazy take had to think about it but na Rayleigh is the old dude that can still hold his own but he not offing any body he’s old now and he hasn’t been in action just chilln he’s a gohan he can go ssj 2 but he still gone need help to finish some offf you should have met in the middle with there evenly matched cause they are ray gonna give you a few rounds but he def gonna tire out eventually
Rayleigh wasn't ever gonna win that fight. Past his prime, fighting an opponent that should have knowledge/experience fighting advanced haki users and quite literally bumming it out in Sabaody. But Rayleigh also didn't want this fight. He wants to be left alone, killing an admiral is the opposite of being left alone. So it would have been a great fight but not one that favored Rayleigh in any way.
Rayleigh was and never will be on Whitebeards status both in prime or as old men . Rayleigh was Yonko level but he was never top of the verse in power like Roger or Whitebeard, could he fight them yes forsure but would he lose yes 10/10 times 😭🤷🏼♂️ . Rayleigh in his prime is smacking Kizaru btw lmao
Kizaru said he needed a plan to stop Ray. How someone stronger than another one needs a plan. Typical admirals tactic, kizaru handcuffs Marco so that he could take him. And got one shot by Luffy?
Oh yes *looks at notes* "having a plan" is now something that makes you weaker. You guys have been blinded by anime. Even if you're strong, plans are smart
Luffy doesn't do any legal chess planning, yet he's still surviving in the New World, so clearly Kizaru isn't a major badass like you claim him to be@@yaseennechat4090.
1:45 nah green bull says when he pulls up the only reason why the marines ain’t invade wano was cause of kiado and the beast pirates. He says it after/while he’s wrapping up the two beast pirate commanders.
Green Bull was afraid to fight Shanks one v one unlike Kid and Luffy, so Green Bull is unreliable whenever it comes to the geopolitics of the world of One Piece.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr shanks stopped kiado from joking the war. Kid couldn’t have even faced kiado alone. Kid pulled up on shanks and got bodied twice. First time he didn’t even see shanks. Shanks is top tier in the verse. Luffy is the main character he gon fight anybody even tho that is a flaw most of the time like the many times he got bodied by kiado before the final jumping on the roof. If shanks could beat kiado alone, and it took everybody to beat kiado, and green bull said himself the only reason why the gov didn’t go to wano and take it over was cause of kiado then the person stronger than the person who they were scared to invade wano over is very much clear and obvious scaling
Rayleigh is a swords men so a kick isn’t going to have the same effect as maybe a divine departure also taking out a admiral is only going to cause more trouble for the straw hats getting the attention of The gorosei and they would pack everyone up also haki wasn’t displayed in pre time skip so the fight intentions wasn’t for power scaling but for the plot so I would say that Rayleigh full capability isnt on display and that making black beard run like a little girl is more showing of his actual abilities idc if he said he would of lost cuz he is old that’s just him being humble after all this guy was living humbly with his girl while he had celestial dragons around him constantly acting like assholes
Him saying he would loose means very little because akanu the only marine that can fight BB with the chance of winning anyway and garp and sengoku both loosing to BB aswell
@@BDDterror bb isn’t that strong to beat garp and sengoku cuz both of them are stronger than akainu from what we know rn so 🤣🤣 but I do agree that him saying he would lose doesn’t really mean much considering how scared black beard was
@@stephonheredia9129 the admiral's are the strongest force the marines have we been told this by Robin and we just seen garp not beating akoji so he not beating akanu
The old 3 all similar in power prime and atm they got abit more power than admiral's but they can't last long enough to win vs them nowadays akanu and akoji atleast
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Love that you guys are uploading the longform debates here!
Safe to say that Kizaru is stronger than Ray at this point but not by much. If Prime Rayleigh's the standard of overall battle power at 100%, Old Rayleigh is 50% of his prime the Kizaru's surely around 60-70%. I'm also assuming that Prime Ray is also around current Shanks, Mihawk and Kaido's level. With Roger and Primebeard around 110-120% Prime Ray? I trust Rayleigh's comparison of himself vs Blackbeard, which I'm also guessing is around Kizaru's level. While Big Meme's loss was a joke, it was clear she never went out vs Kidd/Law and had to be thrown off the island while she still has plenty of fight left in her. My guess is 70-80%.
Nah I think everyone is forgetting something. Kizaru said himself that the government aka him, wasn’t ready to fight Dark King Ray-that he’d need back up and this and that.
Also when proven that Rayleigh wasn’t going all out, the rebuttal can’t be the anime didn’t show haki coating--he 100% clearly wasn’t going all out. And how’d he get away if Kizaru could just pack em up.
Kizaru was so frustrated after the events that he had to arrest 500 pirates.
I am pretty sure it wasn't cause of Rayleigh, it was because he couldn't capture the Straw Hats since Kuma slapped them away.
@@Eden0211 , if Kizaru truly is faster than instant teleportation itself like Luffy then he'd be able to finish off the Strawhat Pirates during their timeskip, which he didn't do so, so he's a fraud, and the admiral agenda is fraudulent behavior.
The real question here is if Kizaru was smokin sum of dat ZAZA before the sabaody 1v1. Aint no way bro rode onto the scene on a cannonball in his frame of mind 💀💀
Ray had a lesser level of do not engage then Kaido, but he did seem to have some. The marines were content to just let him stay there as long as he didn't cause too much trouble, but him being there wasn't enough to make them halt operations in an area.
They sent all of their troops to kill a Whitebeard that wasn't in his prime though, so I agree with Larence would they send all of their troops to go kill Whitebeard on an international news broadcast despite Whitebeard being as chill as Rayleigh, but they don't want to send all of their troops on Rayleigh because either the Marines are frauds, or they just don't have the biggest powerhouses pirates do.
I think they actually did send troops on Sabaody to look for Rayleigh after Marineford but they didn’t find him because Rayleigh was absent for 6 months to train Luffy
It's because they know a WB is stronger than garp and sengoku they know both are needed to stop WB just like shiki regardless of the cope people have WB is the only man to stand toe to toe with PK roger garp didn't make it
The technically Blackbeard being a bounty hunter was funny asf
"Whats the most effective way to protect the strawhats in that moment!?!?
Got me dying bro
these videos are bangers fr don’t stop uploading
So something I noticed wasn’t mentioned for Rayleigh is from his perspective kuma spilt the beans to him about the plan otherwise he might have packed up kizaru. Dark king used conquerors haki and made black beard shake from thinking about his past, that alone confirms he even in that state would be a high diff for any in the top of the verse. I think Rayleigh could win here and the fact you believe what Zoro is suppose to become is gonna look so pessimistic against admirals in old age is crazy.
The thing I gotta say, is you don’t have to be as strong as a yonko to be a yonko. I think the old guys are still admiral and yonko level they just got weaker over time but still in the same tier as the new yonko and admiral but at the bottom not every admiral and yonko are on the same fighting style or strength. They all fight differently
Garp said himself that the « Marines » couldn’t handle two legends like Whitebeard and Rayleigh at the same time. Why would he say that if Kizaru or any other admiral could beat him ?
Just like the Marines needed 3/4 of their forces to handle WB and his crew, it would've required at least 2 admirals to defeat Rayleigh (or at least Garp himself or Akainu)
Exactly bro ppl love adimirals too much , Rayleigh had everybody shook
Kizaru said he needed backup like come on 😂
Lmao y’all can’t be serious?
Rayleigh would be a problem if they had to deal with him they needed all hands on deck. Kizaru could beat him but he’d have to sink the island or do serious damage
@@LaceKing7 i’m just pointing out canon elements that are actually in the manga 🤷🏽♂️ Kizaru said he couldn’t capture Rayleigh without a plan and Garp confirmed that Rayleigh was a legend that the Marines couldn’t handle at the same time as WB. Those are facts. Kizaru can’t beat Rayleigh
So you think garp and sengoku can’t handle wb and rayleigh? Lol. Garp said that for the hype nothing else.
Y'all should really keep uploading these.
You guys are entertaining as hell I was smiling the whole time watching this video
Love the editing
It really comes down to endurance Rayleigh isn’t lasting long enough to beat Kizaru in his prime sure
"whitebeard was not yonko lvevl at marineford"
*The four Emperors of the sea has left the chat*
keep these vids coming 🔥🔥
I’m sorry but everytime Kizaru has a vs, he handicapped or not serious. Him throwing his hands up at Ben Beckmen, Luffy: can fight luffy, can have no collateral damage, and Rayleigh: clearly not trying. Only one I can give is Marco
Reighly has consistently said he's not up to the level of admirals and Yonko.
When? He said he hadn't touched a sword in years and admitted he couldn't beat black beard.
When has he said he's under the admirals?
@@luffylength thinking the guy who started panting moments into "fighting" kizaru who was just dicking around and admitted to being lesser to Blackbeard, wins against AKAINU or Kuzan is crazy. Especially seeing what Kizaru can do. Rayleigh is pretty clearly a cut underneath those kind of characters
@@yaseennechat4090 You typed all that and didn't answer my question
What did Kizaru do. Shooting laser beam that even sentomaru could dodge, run away during his fight with luffy, and when luffy finally hit him with just one attack (same attack that Kaido took multiple times) he got knocked out. 😂
@@luffylength oh yes. The ONLY way to scale is if someone says they're weaker than someone. If you can't see the importance of actual on screen feats and showings then I don't know what to tell you
Reyleigh wasn't Sweating One BIT. Yall Tripping.
You all need to remember how Oda introduced Haki so late in OP. The Marines had the ability to access Wano, obvious with Drake "Sword" feeding information as well as CP able to hang in Kaido's fortress. Black Beard still seems intimidated by Rayleigh as well.
I think they should introduce a new branch of people that are actually bounty hunters and they go after bounty’s obviously I think it would be cool
Too late in the story for that. It should've been way earlier.
Well that's what Baroque Works is
The net positive for taking the bounty off rayleigh's head is that his name would inspire people, if pirates knew of his whereabouts they'd flock around him
Pirates would still continue being with or without Rayleigh having a bounty placed on his head, but Rayleigh is neither a major threat to the general public world of One Piece like Luffy and Zoro are nor he is a major threat to the World Government like Buggy is unless he can solo the Admirals at his old and peaceful life.
The One Piece community has really made terms like "one-shot" and "two-shot" completely meaningless. Applying them to situations where it took like 1,000,000 punches to land the "one-shot", and applying them to situations where the victim is actually still conscious and able to fight afterwards.
Black beard ran when he had in hand what he wanted Hancock's DF after seeing Rayleigh
I'm on Larry and Seb's side. Kizaru is packing up Rayleigh, but I wish Seb wouldn't lie abou "Rayleigh got a clean hit on Kizaru." No he did not. There is a massive difference from full on connecting quake punches VS barely touching the tip of my blade against you cheek. Not once did Ray full on get his sword across Kizaru to actually do damage.
Old Rayliegh is the most overscaled character in op. Ive seen guys argue he beats Gear 5 luffy and extreme diffs Kaido. Weve seen the drop off age causes in OP. If old Ray is taking out yonkos and packing up admirals then he shoulda been the captain not roger lmao.
Kuzan was sandbagging against Garp, that was a son fighting against his father. He ALLOWED Garp to go off, complete his mission, as soon as that was done, he put Garp to bed. Won’t even talk about Garp’s performance against the Titanic commanders 😅
Lol
You mean the same Titanic Commanders that couldn’t land a hit on Garp without using Koby as a decoy to stab him ? You do realize Kuzan didn’t touch Garp once before he was stabbed right. The first blow he gave him was after he was weakened by his wound
@@nobody42071 Decoy? Come come Nobody, that naivety is for Koby. Shiryu meant to kill Koby that was the whole deal, Garp sensed it and went to intercept Shiryu BUT was too slow/weak to use haki to block the attack.
My dude, did you not see a bruised up Garp? If Kuzan hadn’t done that to him then who did? Vasco? He was screwing around spiting fire balls from long range, Shiryu? Nah he was invincible the entire fight, Garp didn’t even know he was there. Pazzaro? He WAS the island the entire time. So it had to be Kuzan….unless….you believe random fodder did that to him…🤭
I would accept Kuzan unless you want to embarrass Garp further
Kuzan sandbagging? what cope. Garp only told Kuzan to live in the now because Kuzan asked Garp if he could kill his old student to protect his new one. Garp replied with I taught you to live in the now because Garp was letting Kuzan know the answer was obvious. And when fresh Garp one shotted Kuzan. Kuzan was out of commission long enough for them to get the boat back in the ocean, have Sanjuan thrown in the ocean, and have the prisoner loaded in the ship before Kuzan was able to approach Garp again after he finally got up.
Named attacks are stronger than unnamed attacks. It took a named attack in “ice glove” to match up evenly with an unnamed punch of Garp’s. If you need a named attack to match up evenly with an unnamed attack you’re weaker than that person. Further evidence Kuzan was sandbagging is that Kuzan opened on Garp using the same move he opened on wb with.
Old Garp > Kuzan. It’s why Kuzan needed help to defeat Garp in the end.
Lmao if Kizaru REALLY went to wano that dude would’ve been a shattered lightbulb
I really wanna say rayleigh would win based on what we’ve seen from him against bounce man and blackbeard but he was shown sweating in the manga during the kizaru fight while kizaru wasnt. Rayleigh said he wasnt fast enough to deal with kizaru and kuma and kizaru said not to say that because it makes him look bad. But at that age Rayleigh probably doesnt have the stamina to keep up with kizaru in a long fight and escaping wouldve been unlikely so Rayleigh wouldve had to essentially burst him down or one shot him and it possible he could with his conquerers haki but we just havent seen Rayleigh go all out especially his current age. It just hard to judge rayleighs true power and how durable kizaru is. We havent seen enough to know who wins but kizaru definitely has the stamina advantage so ill give him the edge.
Kizaru fought a stronger Snake Man Luffy and was still winning, Rayleigh did that to a still training Luffy Gear 4.
We got Derrick white talking about one piece before gta 6
One fact you all forgot is that Rayleigh could swim through the calm belt ( The most visious stretch of the sea ) whilst using minimum effort
If people believe Roger would
Still be Yonko level just sitting on an island drinking. I think there’s a good case for Rayleigh being close to roger still
Kizaru is light, every hit from Luffy makes him stunned. A strong atk from a top tier with a weapon wud be over
“Name one strong bounty hunter, Sebastian.” Bruh, Zoro 💀
I know Garp is Roger rival but he ain’t show enough on BB island for me to see it fr. Say what you want bout WB but his display at MarineFord was wayy more than what Garp did.
The problems with arguments like these is that Oda himself doesn’t know, or at the time vastly overscaled some of these characters. If we go by what we actually saw then an old, almost dead Whitebeard was stronger than any current Yonko, since it needed all three admirals, garp, sengoku, Mihawk etc to stop him, which is obviously ridiculous as (if we go by narrative) mihawk himself should be able to easily beat an old whitebeard and skink shouldn’t have been packed up as he was.
This hole reyleigh vs kizaru depends on if reyleigh was using the same power he did when he stop Blackbeard from hurting boa handcock, which we don't know cuz they wasn't showing haki of that level yet. And there's the thing of reyleigh being old and not picking up his sword. Low stamina.
Ngl Not suprised that Seb and Larry are in unison like this and honestly even if Ray could pack Kizaru up he was too worried about Luffy, Luffy's crew, and what Kuma said to him. its also crazy how Larry and Seb who are hyping up akainu when Kizaru should be stronger because technically Kizaru was a higher rank than him and the oldest admiral that alone should show that Rayleigh vs Kizaru is debatable, I'm not saying Akainu is weaker I'm just saying Kizaru is overrated and honestly dissapointing.
He ain't overrated...he just fighting luffy and we know how it goes with the mc
@@ryanpanda7563 don't get me wrong I know I hope he's not overrated but to me right now it's just Rayleigh vs Kizaru is very debatable bc at the end of the day they both wanted to avoid conflict it's implied and said specifically by both Kizaru and Rayleigh. Also I think tbh he's a very complicated marine like Garp but so insecure and indecisive character. Which I don't but I want more context from Oda ofh8s backstory.
There would Be no reason for raylighe to be holding back if he was so worried about the sh he should pack up kizaru for the sh to escape not hold back on kizaru so he can take out the sh
@@alex._5406 so let me give you another scenario from bleach shunsui kyoraku and ukitake coyote stark and his arranger buddy. Are we to say in that scenario Coyote Stark doesn't stand in the same sight as Kizaru?
@@mohammedlire2045 what😭 ur comparing bleach to op which are very different in aspects if Rayligeh was so worried he would hold back on kizaru so then kizaru could go attack them?
to larry's point, i think wano was supposed to be like japan and japan was notoriously hard to infiltrate during ww2
The United States dropped two nukes on Japan even before they dropped nukes on us, so it really isn't that hard to invade Japan.
I'd say Kizaru wins high-extreme diff due to Rayleigh being weaker than he was during his prime.
In order for Rayleigh to be even a challenge at that time..he would have had to be triggered ...a battle crazed Dark King is a problem for anyone.
I guess old men that are done can just swim from sabaody to boas Island.
Oda confirmed kaido did not awaken his fruit.
Whiteboard was a Yonko,just the bare minimum,but he was far from the World strongest Man. His devil fruit was so disgusting that it bridged the gap between his physical deficiencies. Much like how Big mom’s devil fruit is so powerful she didn’t have to utilize ACoC.
Honestly i think Big Mom gets more milage out of her monsterous physical strength and her indestructible skin then her devil Fruit. But her fruit is top tier for sure and i'd have liked to see her go even more crazy with it.
@@Brian0033 for defensive abilities sure, but without her fruit she's to big and slow to be fighting anyone lol she wouldn't be able to keep up, i don't see her landing regular haki punches on kid, luffy or law, they're too fast
@@Brian0033 She was just about to go full tilt before Law silenced her! Law always ruining the fun...
@@Brian0033 Before Wano I’d agree,but I just think her monstrous strength prevents her from dying EVERY SINGLE TIME she falls from ridiculous heights. Her devil fruit was putting pressure on not only Law & Kidd but everyone in the area. I still say Law & Kidd got a TKO via ringout,but even their devil fruits seemed minuscule comparatively. She could’ve healed herself again,thanks to the bystanders,if not for Law.
But shanks does that all the time and white beard wasn’t just fighting he was sittin down sick
Ray could win but it would cost him
Garp absolutely was not beating everyone at Hajinosu.
Even before he got stabbed he literally only beat Sanjuan Wolf. He was also already in an endurance fight with Aokiji since they both return with bruises and less clothes so the idea Garp was clean until Shiryu stab is just false. Aokiji also was barely using his fruit so all around, Garp was not ever going to win that fight stab or not. He probably would have gotten off the island though.
1. Garp could’ve beat everyone on Hachinosu. He didn’t because they were keeping their distances. Vasco Shot shooted a fire ball and ran away. Shilliew also ran away after stabbing Garp and Pizarro wasn’t even in real danger since his real body doesn’t get the same damage as the Island. 4/5 of the Commanders were avoiding direct confrontation with Garp and the 5th was getting beat up until Garp got weakened.
2. Garp got rid of Kuzan in chapter 1081 with his blue hole (he had no bruises at the time. In chapter 1087, Garp has knocked out Sanjuan Wolf and has bruises on him (Kuzan only came back on the 3rd page). Just after Kuzan came back, Shilliew stabed Garp. That’s when Kuzan attacks him for the second time (since Blue Hole). Garp was already weakened when Kuzan landed his first punch. In chapter 1088, Garp outspeeds Kuzan and uses Galaxy Divide on Pizarro. Just after that, we see he’s not feeling good. On the last panel, he is frozen on the floor with the BB Pirates surrounding him. So, no it’s the stab that sealed his fate
3. Aokiji wasn’t using his fruit because it was useless on Garp until he had a big opened wound in the stomach.
@@nobody42071 1. You are contradicting yourself massively. You say Aokiji was out and that Garp was getting damaged by the other pirates but then started your argument saying that Garp could have beat the other pirates easily and they just stayed away from him.
2. Blue Hole never knocked Kuzan out. We literally have proof of this since more people than just Hibari got freezed by Aokiji within the time we didn’t see Hajinosu and its return.
3. Aokiji literally says you guys can’t do anything to him so it’s quite obvious he was doing the work not the other pirates until Shiryu stabbed Garp.
4. Kuzan’s fruit would have worked fine vs Garp. There is literally nothing but head canon that says it wouldn’t have worked against him since Aokiji was spamming it against Akainu enough to change the weather and Akainu is literally a lava man with confirmed advanced haki. We even have literal evidence that Kuzan’s ice dealt damage to Akainu since Akainu has scars from their battle and we know that bare hands don’t cause scars since not a single fighter in the entire show has caused scars by brawling. Hence an ice attack had to have cut Akainu’s skin and so there is no excuse why Kuzan’s ice would not have worked vs Garp.
There is no way we are pretending like Raleigh could have stepped to Marineford and been as big a danger as White Beard.
Easily he can use advanced conquerors and whitebeard had a heart attack when he tried using it
@@triple466 Raleigh was running out of stamina against just Kizaru. How is he going to be nearly as dangerous as White Beard who could use a devil fruit that allowed him to be so much more dangerous than Raleigh.
To be fair to Raleigh we know he’s a swords man and we have never seen a named attack from him yet
It’s crazy to say Whitebeard wasn’t Yonko level at Marineford when he was a literal Yonko
Just cause he has the title doesn't mean he was at the same level as the others, it is not that hard to figure that Whitebeard would lose to any Yonko at that point.
Buggy also has the title of Yonko, does that mean he is Yonko level? No.
You guys are forgetting that Grap even spoke that the Marines been knew of his location but they couldn’t afford to send the men after Reyleigh. All the characters you guys have mentioned know how strong Reyleigh is known to be as the right hand to the PK. It doesn’t matter of his age at first glance if you know what kind of knowledge this man has when it comes to Haki and fighting itself. Even in his old age, he was able to defend off an admiral without breaking a sweat. Mind you he’s not trying to defeat the admiral he’s only trying to defend him off, so the straw hats can escape. That’s a big difference. Sebastian if he does take out the admiral, the marines will send more and that’s a bigger headache when you’re trying to allow someone to escape, and you will be the only person fighting off in Armada of Marines. Use common sense think like a criminal because that’s what Pirates are.
Yes, he stated he couldn’t beat Blackbeard, but I think that’s mostly due to the fact of fighting a person with two devil fruits, which has never been heard of and a person using a devil fruit which you have never faced before on top of the fact old age doesn’t allow one to hold longevity in a fight against someone keep in mind Blackbeard was a kid when the Roger Pirates and the Whitebeard Pirate meet on that island.
Reyleigh was above Yonko level due to his knowledge and skills. Kiado said it best “ONLY the STRONGEST HAKI will rule the SEAS”. Haki matters especially Conquers Haki. NONE of the Admirals have shown they can do anything against a flex of Conquers Haki
Technically Snake man is Luffy’s strongest gear 4th form
Great video you guys had some good points tho 😂.
Also Whitebread took 4 shoots 3 from Akainu 1 in the face, 2 in the abdominal section and a stab from his own subordinate.
So....now that we know that Rayleigh and whitebeard were the same status in their golden years...
Rayleigh would not go all out against kizaru bc he doesn't want to influence the new era too much, the only reason he interefered with blackbeard as example is because ''he really does not like him'', rayleigh wants to give the new era, the new pirates a chance to write there own story, and influence it as little as possible.
No one went for Zeff when he was chilling and cooking I see the same thing with Rayleigh
Not on anysides me personally I think it can go either way buttt I will say this, "no.1 rule of anime never slack on the old guy" i will never forget tat rule
He was just chilling na he was in hiding and the marines knew he was there saw no point in wasting marines on someone who's doing nothing more than drinking and gambling
I'm going to say that if both Kizaru and Rayleigh were to duke it out to the death, that it would probably end with ether both of them dining or Rayleigh winning by the skin of his teeth.
On a power scale of 100, I believe Rayleigh to be atleast 93 if Roger was 95, so even if Whitebeard would have edge he’d take Rayleigh v sincerely.
Then the fact that WB would cause more damage than Rayleigh’s would, ofc yes, cuz he has more brute strength, but that is only one component of a persons combat skill and Rayleigh is an exceptionally skilled fighter, a very balanced one indeed, and this true about WB even in comparison to Roger, but Roger and Rayleigh might not be as huge or brutish like WB, but their Haki prowess allowed them deal with monstrous foes.
Third Rayleigh is shown to be very rational, he wasn’t going for the kill, the admiral knew who he was dealing with, and Rayleigh also knows his limits, when he says he is at his limit he is being humble, thats not his full strength, Kizaru knew that and he didn’t act too cocky…had it escalated, Kizaru might have won maybe, but that’d be a fight you’d not want to fight…Kizaru as of today might be an even match to Prime Rayleigh,
WB was 72 when he died, Roger was 2yrs older than WB, Rayleigh currently 78
marco or king?
Stupidest thing I ever heard is whitebeard wasn't at yonko level in the war of the best, look what it takes to kill a half dead man
13:13 wait before you bring up that whitebeard would do more dmg to kizaru as rayleigh, think about whitebeard stabing aokijii
The Dark King would've defeated Borsalino. Y'all forget what Garp said about Rayleigh?
Wasn’t whitebeard a yonko at marineford that means he yonko level lmao
Rayleigh is yonko level rn he may can't beat bb but I for sure know he can beat big mom only reason he held back kizaru and not stomp him is for the story and he didn't have the intense amounts of all 3 adv forms of haki just like wb in pre timeskip
Garp said they knew rayliegh was there but it would take to much to capture him so they were gonna leave him alone. However kizaru high difs him sorry
Theres a reason the marines dont go after rayleigh... The losses would be too much. Garp clearly said the marines cant take 2 legends like whitebeard and rayleigh at the same time. Rayleigh would 💯 body at least 1 admiral maybe 2.
Absolute insanity. He stressed about backbeard but bodying 2 admirals??
I think that Kizaru would've beaten him if he was going serious all the time. But if Kizaru kept his unseriousness, Rayleigh would've beaten him I think, at least that's what narrativey implied imo.
I disagree, I think He would have beaten Rayleigh high to extreme diff
Kizaru was serious, CDs were attacked. Kizaru's face got cut from the clash. Rayleigh couldn't defeat him because he won't have his peaceful life anymore (that's why he asked him first, if he can let them just walk away, then asked him if they can remove his bounty). Rayleigh is defeating Kizaru.
@@shadoow411 relax fanboy.. Rayleigh only cut Kizaru when Kizaru was going after Zoro..in a straight face off Rayleigh couldn't even do a single scratch on him and was out of breath...Pretty sure Oda implied Kizaru stronger than Rayleigh..
@@villain8522 si why kizaru didn’t make any damage to rayleigh ?
@@villain8522it’s the other way around Lmao, Kizaru himself stated that he can’t defeat Rayleigh without Help! And even kizaru got so angry that he captured 500 pirates! But why didn’t he capture Rayleigh if he could beat him! Because he can’t lmao
Just because he's not prime does absolutely not mean he wasn't yonko neither big mom or Kaido would have messed with bro alone
You are probably talking about Newgate, right? I am sorry bro but Kaidou is washing marineford Whitebeard and so is Shanks.
Linlin is debatable, but I think she would win too.
@@Eden0211reighly prime is yonko level he’s close to pirate king level
3:31 Garp was never whooping Aokiji lmao, the community can't read fr
“Strongest bounty hunter technically BlackBeard” 😭😭😭😭 The Show just basically says Rayleigh is a legend, he has clout and can hang but he can’t finish against Yonkos or Admirals. Mfs downplay Law, Kidd and Marco but wank off old Rayleigh and old Garp based off prestige. Prime may be a tad different but old currently he is packing up YC1s at best but nothing further and I’m a bigger Rayleigh fan than kizaru so 🤷
2:42 Zoro
The show said WB the only man to stand toe to toe with PK roger but u say garp that lvl the show said the WG had to make the warlords to ballance the power of them and a yonko crew how this possible is garp and sengoku equal to the strongest pirate's and the WG has 2 of them clearly they wasn't prime roger and WB lvl
How people miss it confuses me. The WG isn't equal to the yonkou. They GREATLY over power them. There's a reason they're the ones in charge of the world and the yonkou only have territories within that. It's only when the other territories group up that they're actually a bigger total threat. The WG need to keep control. They can't just be more powerful. They need to be OVERWHELMINGLY more powerful. So that when (like whitebeard) yonkou approach, even with all his allies+revolutionaries+impel down escapees AND the warlords either doing, nothing, almost nothing or literally going against them. The WG still killed Ace as they planned, AND killed Whitebeard AND Akainu was literally fighting the entire whitebeard pirates on his own. 3 admirals +Garp+sengoku+the warlords at the time. The WG was the clear winner of that war (untill Blackbeard by he's a dark horse)
@@yaseennechat4090 this why they shook when 2 joined forces and u missed my point if garp was equal to prime WB why he say all the forces are needed and it not possible to deal with Rayleigh couldn't he got himself? Or him sengoku and 2 admiral's plus warlords deal with the war? No because he not prime WB lvl this why it's needed and not possible to spare anyone
@@yaseennechat4090 and skipping the fact WB got betrayed and stabbed in the chest had a heart attack mid fight and was weaker just from being sick in general may help u but all it shows is why garp wasn't his lvl he looked way worse vs weaker people not betrayed and no HA plus not sick
Roger said himself that him and Garp almost killed themselves in their fights, if that is not being on par with Roger, I don't know what is.
Yes, Roger was probably slightly stronger but mind you, Roger was stronger than Newgate too.
Facts somone that use brain ,thank god i'm not the only one ,prime wb and prime roger are above any soldier the navy has prime garp and sengoku are not equal to those guys shiki himself couldn't believe the navy capture roger it's clear as crystal
I would say that Rayleigh and Kizaru are roughly equals. Either could win extreme diff
"Was a Yonko Yonko level at marineford"?
He wasn't.
@@Eden0211 he was a yonko therefore he was yonko level.
@@michaelwright8896no he was old and sick stop being ignorant a true prime yonko like shanks is what a yonko is
@@triple466 No. A yonko is a yonko stop doing mental gymnastics.
@@michaelwright8896 So ur tiny brain is basically saying old sick whitebeard is equal to prime shanks in combat you think they would tie. Try harder lil brat
2:42 2:43
Kizaru wins mid diff
so why kizaru didn’t beat rayleigh? mid diff he could easily beat him and destroy the straw hats in the same time
@okita07 Because he was not ordered to engage with Ray and also the damage they would've done on Sabo would've been problematic
@@samuelthe13why Sabo? and I mean this fight could go either way, some people say kizaru was holding back when rayleigh didn’t use advanced armament or conquerors, plus kizaru admitted he needs to prepare if he wanted to stop him, at the end he could and he was so angry that he stopped hundreds of pirates to calm down. On the other side rayleigh couldn’t help more the straw hats. It clearly shows that they’re relatives
@@okita07 I think he meant sabaody.
Not mid
whitebeard wasnt yonkou level is tbh fair.
Kizaru can beat Rayleigh extreme diff, cuz first Kizaru is freaking strong, second Rayleigh is old and not as strong as he used to be…. Why he needed back up, cuz your hands are full, and there are other fishes to catch, the one you’re dealing with won’t let you multi-task.. Kizaru as he was on Sabaody would be max mid~hard diff challenge for young Rayleigh…. As he is today, it’d be an equal matchup….
Crazy take had to think about it but na Rayleigh is the old dude that can still hold his own but he not offing any body he’s old now and he hasn’t been in action just chilln he’s a gohan he can go ssj 2 but he still gone need help to finish some offf you should have met in the middle with there evenly matched cause they are ray gonna give you a few rounds but he def gonna tire out eventually
bruh whats in these guys water 😂
Rayleigh wasn't ever gonna win that fight. Past his prime, fighting an opponent that should have knowledge/experience fighting advanced haki users and quite literally bumming it out in Sabaody.
But Rayleigh also didn't want this fight. He wants to be left alone, killing an admiral is the opposite of being left alone. So it would have been a great fight but not one that favored Rayleigh in any way.
Man’s forgetting all the giant creatures on the island he was training with
Exactly!!! 👊👊✊✊👏👏👏
Kizaru wins extreme diff and it is the same garp said the WG can't deal with Rayleigh
Rayleigh has shown the best haki in the series but thats all its been haki
Kizaru high diffs Old Ray, extreme diffs Prime Ray
Rayleigh was and never will be on Whitebeards status both in prime or as old men . Rayleigh was Yonko level but he was never top of the verse in power like Roger or Whitebeard, could he fight them yes forsure but would he lose yes 10/10 times 😭🤷🏼♂️ . Rayleigh in his prime is smacking Kizaru btw lmao
1v1 no bars hold , pre timeskip , kizaru wins mid diff
Garp told u he can't stop Rayleigh and garp didn't beat anyone he loosing to admiral's aswell garp was Rayleighs equal not Roger's
Kizaru said he needed a plan to stop Ray. How someone stronger than another one needs a plan. Typical admirals tactic, kizaru handcuffs Marco so that he could take him. And got one shot by Luffy?
I hope you’re not serious
satire
@@ioffendedyoudidnti4784is he wrong though? He’s speaking facts from the manga Lmao
Oh yes *looks at notes* "having a plan" is now something that makes you weaker. You guys have been blinded by anime. Even if you're strong, plans are smart
Luffy doesn't do any legal chess planning, yet he's still surviving in the New World, so clearly Kizaru isn't a major badass like you claim him to be@@yaseennechat4090.
Lawrence bugging as always love you guys though.
this is one of the few times I agree with Lawrence instead of Larry and Seb, so you must think I'm bugging too.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr in this case yes
Old Rayleigh wins extreme diff prime Ray dog walks kizaru
1:45 nah green bull says when he pulls up the only reason why the marines ain’t invade wano was cause of kiado and the beast pirates. He says it after/while he’s wrapping up the two beast pirate commanders.
Green Bull was afraid to fight Shanks one v one unlike Kid and Luffy, so Green Bull is unreliable whenever it comes to the geopolitics of the world of One Piece.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr shanks stopped kiado from joking the war. Kid couldn’t have even faced kiado alone. Kid pulled up on shanks and got bodied twice. First time he didn’t even see shanks. Shanks is top tier in the verse. Luffy is the main character he gon fight anybody even tho that is a flaw most of the time like the many times he got bodied by kiado before the final jumping on the roof. If shanks could beat kiado alone, and it took everybody to beat kiado, and green bull said himself the only reason why the gov didn’t go to wano and take it over was cause of kiado then the person stronger than the person who they were scared to invade wano over is very much clear and obvious scaling
Plot armour simple. No need to compare 😂🎉😅😅😂
I would want rayleigh to win but kizaru would win
I swear seb screams entirely too much. Can’t we just have a good debate without screaming over each other
bro how on earth was whitebeard not yonko level in marineford 💀 who else besides the three other yonko in a 1v1 is taking old man whitebeard?
Garp, Mihawk, Dragon, Sakazuki, Kuzan, possibly Sengoku and Garling.
At j Garcia Saturn and imu
@@triple466 Jay Garcia wouldn't beat Whitebeard.
@@Eden0211 we will see what garcia does to g5 luffy first
Rayleigh take the W.
Rayleigh is a swords men so a kick isn’t going to have the same effect as maybe a divine departure also taking out a admiral is only going to cause more trouble for the straw hats getting the attention of The gorosei and they would pack everyone up also haki wasn’t displayed in pre time skip so the fight intentions wasn’t for power scaling but for the plot so I would say that Rayleigh full capability isnt on display and that making black beard run like a little girl is more showing of his actual abilities idc if he said he would of lost cuz he is old that’s just him being humble after all this guy was living humbly with his girl while he had celestial dragons around him constantly acting like assholes
Him saying he would loose means very little because akanu the only marine that can fight BB with the chance of winning anyway and garp and sengoku both loosing to BB aswell
@@BDDterror bb isn’t that strong to beat garp and sengoku cuz both of them are stronger than akainu from what we know rn so 🤣🤣 but I do agree that him saying he would lose doesn’t really mean much considering how scared black beard was
@@stephonheredia9129 not true at all they not over akanu at all
@@stephonheredia9129 the admiral's are the strongest force the marines have we been told this by Robin and we just seen garp not beating akoji so he not beating akanu
The old 3 all similar in power prime and atm they got abit more power than admiral's but they can't last long enough to win vs them nowadays akanu and akoji atleast
Nah Ray still got the sauce bruh.