One of things I like about the BT setting is that there are no "good guys." If I had to pick one faction, Id probably take Ares Convention Era Taurian Concordat, for the shear fact that amount of FAFO has its own nobility. No one in the setting is perfect and this make it all the more compellingly. Great video, BD
Oh, I agree completely. I enjoy the idea that BT has shades of grey and no true designated hero (another reason I don't like the ilClan era since Alaric is pretty clearly set up as the current designated hero and I hate that dude so much).
@@realbloodydoves Is he??? I havent read any of the new books... But he comes across in all the things I've read about him, as a TERRIBLE leader and even WORSE ally, being setup as the new BIG BAD of the setting. Like Napoleon, a good warrior and general... but a TRULY AWFUL human and NOT to be trusted by ANYONE. (I suspect thats the Katherine in him)
The one thing I would note that by the ilClan era, the IS Clans have been around for a _century_. Yes, we've mostly simply ignored that for the Wolves and Falcons for stupid reasons, but the Dominion and the Raven Alliance at the very least have shown that it's completely ludicrous to assume that it's possible for such an alien society to exist on foreign worlds, in a massive minority, without adapting in some way or another, as those two Clans have, so they can be a bit less "bad guys" in places.
Honestly, by 3150, I don't really consider them "Clan" anymore. They're just IS factions with funny traditions and are called Clan XYZ. The only real Clans left are the Homeworlders (maybe? Depends on what they're doing out there) and Goliath Scorpion, who is also changing heavily but is at least holding onto some of their Clan traditions (though the Scorps were always a little weird to start with so who knows).
As someone whose first exposure to Battletech was Mechwarrior 2, and first book was the audiobook of Lethal Heritage, yes my favorite faction is Clan Wolf (I liked wolves as a kid :P). But learning more about the origin of the Clans, where Kerensky took the SLDF from the Inner Sphere to avoid the wars he saw coming when his soldiers had fought enough, I think there is honor and nobility in what they do, although it has been tragically twisted through the hundreds of years. Why do they bid to reduce their forces to the minimum needed? To reduce the number of possible casualties, when formerly they had been indiscriminately thrown into battle by politicians. Now the soldiers are in charge of their own lives, not the corporate interests for resources or politicians for personal power. If victory is the only honor, then why bid down forces rather than using everything you have to win? They had seen wars without rules and honor, which resulted in nuclear apocalypses (pre conventions) and devastation of whole populations. I think the story you mentioned (about the Mechwarrior wanting to kill the guy about the joke) is an outlier, not an example: in my mind, a normal Clan response would have been "I would challenge you in the Circle of Equals, but you are not my equal." Yes, the ideal has been lost, just like in most every faction (Comstar, Davion, etc.), but there's something admirable there behind it.
also gonna add to the love of Space AT&T. they're a twisted and terrible faction but with a noble goal at heart, and at least until the wobbies come out, a delightful number of left hand right hand gambits at different goals and schemes working against eachother.... and there's something wonderfully sinister about pristine white battlemechs and dropships coming down that says "ok, someone just screwed up reaalllly bad."
My current favorite, at least in the ilClan era, is Liao since they haven't drank the Clan Coolant-Aid yet. Once Catalyst finally jumps to the 3250's that they've been alluding to in the newer TROs for the past few years now, I'm still hoping it'll be the case. Interstellar Expeditions / Explorer Corps are great for storytelling and introducing people to the setting at the same time. Start stranded on a backwater with introtech and work your way towards the inner sphere, adding the newer tech and rules along the way.
I actually like the retcon, or the clarification. I think it was fantastic, and one of my favourite things covered in my Origins of Comstar video. Jerome didn't do it out of malice either, he was just desperate to "save" humanity, even though he knew the religion would be bullshit. The best part to me, was Toyama fucked it up, immediately, out the gate, by bypassing the warnings Blake gave him immediately. But, all the same, I love Comstar, XD
I'll gently disagree with you here, Big Red. While I see that perspective, I find that it gives a deep poignancy to ComStar's holy mission that it was functionally perverted at the very inception by a man's lust for power, the very thing ComStar was meant to be a bulwark against all along. That ComStar's mission kind of generally succeeded *anyways* despite Toyama's twisting of Blake's goals speaks to the durability and power of Blake's original design. That things were changed so deeply after Blake's death and done so without his intent I think really deepens and complicates ComStar as an organization throughout history. I do think there's definitely room for both perspectives here, you can make solid arguments in both directions of course. I love this aspect of BT, it really shows that there's some depth to be explored here and a lot of nuance in the writing. Love it so much. Oh, and I too am sad that CGL officially confirmed C* is perma-dead. I saw your video about that awhile ago and agreed that it's a loss for the setting.
Although pre-schism ComStar reminds me of "a canticle for Leibowitz" (not to mention the glorious ass-kicking on Tukayyid 😁), and thus I can't but hold that ComStar dear, my cultural and political beliefs make me stand with Davion and St Ives. Completely with you on the clans, and I'd have further considerations to add, starting from how Orwellian they are, arriving to their blind stupidity in letting madman Kerensky junior manipulate them, and all that's in between. Star League heirs my ass! (I always laugh like hell when super-naive Farah in "of unknown origin" dreams of "what peaceful and wonderful ways could Kerensky 's heirs teach us", LOL!!!)
I've always like House Davion; brutal, smart, and unapologetic about trying to bring the IS under their rule. They are willing to go to far to create a IS that they control. Though, that is my take up to Tukyuid. I'm still catching up on what has happened in the 30 years since I stopped reading the fiction.
ComStar is a great faction, but I confess that post-Schism secular ComStar is my favorite era for them. They had so much potential as THE anti-Clan faction, leading the charge and wrangling the Great Houses, doing their best to point their endless warmongering at the Clans instead of each other. I'd rather like to see a revival of that concept in the ilClan era given the breakdown of central authority in most of the Great Houses and the rise in both chaos and Clan violence in the wake of the fall of Terra. The Clans are clearly designed as a nightmare amalgamation of Sparta and the Mongols, combining the social structure of the former with its abomination of a caste system, it's systematized child abuse, and its shockingly small capacity for actual warfare, with the high-level political order, organizational structure, and general philosophy of the latter. I've never understood how anyone could like or sympathize with any of the Clans aside from Wolverine (who were purged with extreme prejudice for pointing out just how evil and inefficient Clan society was becoming). Appreciate, sure, in the same way that one can appreciate any extreme culture, but like? Sadly, there are all too many people who actively support the implementation of obviously evil social and government structures, including Sparta, the Mongols, Communists, Fascist, and any number of failed civilizations (if you can even use that term for such vile structures). Interestingly, the Clans borrow most heavily from exactly those places. Aside from ComStar (especially Secular ComStar) and Clan Wolverine, my preferred faction is House Davion. Their government structure is reminiscent of the medieval Roman state, with a central authority that relies on its military success for its legitimacy, a general sense of both religious and social superiority, a division of the military into a central "guards" and regional "militia" units (the tagmata and themata, respectively) with overly powerful regional commanders who occasionally lead rebellions or cause problems for the central authority, and everyone on their borders being violent and culturally anathema (the Capellans are a near-peer adversary similar perhaps to the steppe peoples who constantly plagued the empire, the Combine are the peer-adversary equivalent to the Caliphate, and the Taurians are the minor power that is a constant thorn in the side and which occasionally causes huge problems, akin to Serbs or Bulgars). They even have a crazy guy who got the army destroyed and who effectively lost the capital to the enemy and then died, only to have the situation recovered by a highly skilled personal combatant who led from the front and managed to rescue the capital (though the parallels of Caleb and Julian to Phocas and Heraclius aren't perfect, they are striking nonetheless).
Forget favourite Battletech factions, we need to know about your favourite Trek factions! Joking aside I couldn't agree with you more about the Clans. When I was much younger I thought the Clans were the absolute coolest, as I'm sure many younger folks did. As I grew up I still think the Clans are the coolest faction, but as a anthropological study lol. They're a beautifully fleshed out alien society. Favourite faction overall? Raselhague I suppose? Maybe one of the Periphery nations. Canopus is neat. Nobody is good, but I appreciate Periphery states wanting to be left more or less alone.
Favorite Star Trek faction? Honestly, the Federation (at least as depicted in the older shows). While the Admiralty has a lot of goofs in it, I love the idea of a cooperative utopia where things are free and everyone is not only free to pursue their best selves but is actively encouraged to do so. While it's obviously not something that is realistic, it presents a very positive view of the future and believes in people's ability to be good to one another, things I think we need in great abundance in the current social climate. If we all collectively sat down and said "hey, what if we tried to live up to the example of the Federation from Star Trek" and then actually did try, i think this would be a much nicer world for everyone. I try to live up to that example every day (I don't always make it), maybe others should give it a shot too.
Periphery forever! We have bad guys, good guys and all in between! Honestly, i love the Brotherhood of Randis, and i love more how the ISP book gave them a kind of "Da Vinci Code" angle.
@@realbloodydoves i love the whole series. Honestly, would love to see more, but with the current CGL writting style, i seriously doubt they can do sometjing similar.
I think anyone who wants to understand the clans needs to read way of the clans Also in terms of Star Trek, the clans are more akin to the Jem'Hadar then the Kinglons
They're honestly a bit of a mesh between the two. They have the fanatical nature of the Jem'Hadar but they also have the deeply fundamentally hypocritical "honor for me and not for thee" nature of TNG/DS9-era Klingons. It's not a perfect analogy.
@@realbloodydoves I picked the Jem’Hadar as closer to the clans because they both have gene modification stated out right in their creation. I do feel that some clans have hope of become more like human in nature but not all clans. The ghost bears as pointed out are better then most. But what about the Wolf Dragoons, and while yes most were free births, they were still clansmen
Free rasalhague republic has always been my faction of choice. Strong underdog energy was my draw and then I stayed for the repeated heroic last stands and unilateral opposition to the clans. I also liked their relationship with post schism comstar. Sure is a good thing they always retain their independent streak and never yield to clan rule under any circumstances, man it sure would have been shitty writing if they peacefully merged with a clan and became subordinate again after spending the last few centuries trying to exist. That would have been awful, sure is a good thing CGL didn't do that.
Man, that'd just be terrible. It'd be almost as terrible if the peace-loving isolationist Outworlds Alliance decided to willingly submit to Clanner rule. Sure am happy that never happens, what a nightmare that'd be!
I think a thing that really stands out about the clans being just an awful place to live is that wolf dragoons, snoods irregualrs the clan infiltration agents basically went yea no lets not go back to how things were actually and basically "betrayed" their cause even after they saw how much the IS could fuck up they unequivocally went its still less bad than those guys. Now for my favorite waifu factions I still think the magistracy is my favorite even if they merge with cappella it would be to me almost as bad as the snow raven-outworlds in that the two factions are so absurdly culturally different that the only tie is blood and have nothing but cultural animosity towards each other literally a society of extreme social oppression in cappelllans versus As Social free and lose as is reasonable rulable. Im getting off track, what i like about them is their dedication to civic welfare their end goal is that they want their people to have good enjoyable free lives. I do like old outworlds, FRR, and the taurians for a similar reason.
I absolutely agree on the realities of living in the Clans, at best we'd be Technician or Merchant caste but more likely labour caste ; in any case it would suck. And this is coming from someone who loves the Scorpion Empire because I've enjoyed the narrative of watching them being forced to change their society slowly over 100-ish years. Though let's be fair, that anecdote about the Ostcout IIC, while hilarious, would be the same if a mechanic had sassed a Draconis or Capellan noble like that. Heck in that case I don't think anyone would have restrained the noble pilot heh. But I raise an eyebrow at ComStar. Either they are religious zealots who see no problem destroying cities or using WMDs to get their way, or they're defending mass starving of planets and murder and by their own admission "horrible things" for some nebulous "plan". Frankly I see ComStar as either war criminals, or the bad guy cult in Hot Fuzz always going on about the "Greater Good" Then again my favorite factions are some merc companies soooo.... I'll just kill you under contract
As I said to someone else, BT is really a matter of "pick the bad that appeals to you". No one's hands are clean, no one's a real hero, everyone's kind of a monster in some way, just roll with the one you like the most and own it. I like the techno-religious zealots who assassinate scientists in the name of knowledge, that doesn't mean I endorse their behavior. :D
@@realbloodydoves It's absolutely true. I do think it's partially why I have been liking the ilKhan Era stuff so far, a lot of it is about how the factions are being forced to change, not just politically but socially. But in the end they're just as prone to fighting and killing each other for the vaguest pretense of power. I do miss the Republic of the Sphere though.
I'm hoping that the IlClan era is a long "pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall" moment for the clans. I somewhat agree with the 'no good guys' in BattleTech school of thought, and I understand that the existence of BattleTech requires perpetual conflict. Surely, the authors have a plan for the Wolf Clan and company, and I am hopeful that they will get theirs in the coming novels. The only thing that somewhat bothers me is the number of Clan Wolf supporters among new fans. Perhaps it is simply youth and/or naivety, but I don't like to see military victory over moral victory, and I don't like to see when individuals root for the equivalent of the Yankees or Real Madrid simply because they have the most victories.
I think the Clan Wolf fans among the new players are just folks who don't know better or know the Wolves history. It's our job as older players to help the new players learn the history and see the bigger picture, something I try to do here on RFBH. If someone wants to like the Clans, they better damn well know the truth of the Clans so they can make an informed choice.
@@realbloodydoves I agree, and I accept your path as my own. Context is essential, and we can't complain about outcomes if we aren't willing to share information. Also - another great video! I hate i wasn't able to meet in person at Origins. Please keep the thought-provoking content coming, and I appreciate your perspective!
Still Episode 4 eh?? Kidding :) Seriously: Totally agree about the clans... they are MEANT to be the antagonists. Trying to make them relatable... is a mistake IMO. Started with Phelan Kell's story and not really recovered from. Fav for me is Kurita... Not because I would want to live there... But because of the depth of intrigue and faux nobility inherent in "lets take Sengoku Era politics and classes and THROW THEM into 30th millennia space empires" and seeing the effects (mostly bad) that would have on a society. The characters created from that system are often fascinating and deep (if somewhat horrifying to modern sensibility) and I love the sense that, it COULD be so great... but Humanity is a thing... and thus the militant backstabbing and intrigue will continue.
Canopus forever! Relatively progressive, high tech in certain senses (medicine etc), decent tech in others in the ilClan era, decent military, in a place to make moves or hold their own, isn't really an asshole to anyone
Worth noting: the Magistracy of Canopus also has deep ties to the Capellans and have supported them militarily numerous times. Even married into House Liao and the current ruling Magistrix is the sister (or cousin but I think sister) of the current Chancellor. Interesting nation, has a lot going on.
@@realbloodydoves For sure, which I feel mixed about, even as much as I'm tired of the kneejerk "Capellans=bad" jokes. I think they're more complex than they get credit for, and applaud them for having signature tech that they use a lot like stealth and plasma.
@@frankharris4876 The Capellans are *interesting* and they're also kind of monstrous. The servitor system is just functionally state-sponsored slavery pretending it isn't (at least the Marians are honest about it). They've engaged in war crimes against their enemies and their own people quite a lot, more than probably anyone else other than the Dracs. That said, the Cappies also have a lot of security and stability and are incredibly resilient even when they were absolutely at their lowest state during the 4th Succession War. They make some interesting tech and unique designs as well. I don't think they're good people but I don't think basically anyone in BT actually is so it's sort of "what flavor of bad people do you prefer". For me, it's religious zealots who do tech rituals. For others, it's bio-engineered alien Mongols. Pick yer flavor and go nuts with it!
One of things I like about the BT setting is that there are no "good guys."
If I had to pick one faction, Id probably take Ares Convention Era Taurian Concordat, for the shear fact that amount of FAFO has its own nobility. No one in the setting is perfect and this make it all the more compellingly. Great video, BD
Oh, I agree completely. I enjoy the idea that BT has shades of grey and no true designated hero (another reason I don't like the ilClan era since Alaric is pretty clearly set up as the current designated hero and I hate that dude so much).
@@realbloodydoves Is he??? I havent read any of the new books... But he comes across in all the things I've read about him, as a TERRIBLE leader and even WORSE ally, being setup as the new BIG BAD of the setting. Like Napoleon, a good warrior and general... but a TRULY AWFUL human and NOT to be trusted by ANYONE. (I suspect thats the Katherine in him)
The Free Worlds League. Dead to Marik and Glory to Marik
Thomas Halas was the best Captain-General, I'll die on that hill!
The one thing I would note that by the ilClan era, the IS Clans have been around for a _century_. Yes, we've mostly simply ignored that for the Wolves and Falcons for stupid reasons, but the Dominion and the Raven Alliance at the very least have shown that it's completely ludicrous to assume that it's possible for such an alien society to exist on foreign worlds, in a massive minority, without adapting in some way or another, as those two Clans have, so they can be a bit less "bad guys" in places.
Honestly, by 3150, I don't really consider them "Clan" anymore. They're just IS factions with funny traditions and are called Clan XYZ. The only real Clans left are the Homeworlders (maybe? Depends on what they're doing out there) and Goliath Scorpion, who is also changing heavily but is at least holding onto some of their Clan traditions (though the Scorps were always a little weird to start with so who knows).
I do think my favorite story about the Pre-schism Comstar is the Kurita Affair a really neat little story .
As someone whose first exposure to Battletech was Mechwarrior 2, and first book was the audiobook of Lethal Heritage, yes my favorite faction is Clan Wolf (I liked wolves as a kid :P). But learning more about the origin of the Clans, where Kerensky took the SLDF from the Inner Sphere to avoid the wars he saw coming when his soldiers had fought enough, I think there is honor and nobility in what they do, although it has been tragically twisted through the hundreds of years.
Why do they bid to reduce their forces to the minimum needed? To reduce the number of possible casualties, when formerly they had been indiscriminately thrown into battle by politicians. Now the soldiers are in charge of their own lives, not the corporate interests for resources or politicians for personal power. If victory is the only honor, then why bid down forces rather than using everything you have to win? They had seen wars without rules and honor, which resulted in nuclear apocalypses (pre conventions) and devastation of whole populations. I think the story you mentioned (about the Mechwarrior wanting to kill the guy about the joke) is an outlier, not an example: in my mind, a normal Clan response would have been "I would challenge you in the Circle of Equals, but you are not my equal." Yes, the ideal has been lost, just like in most every faction (Comstar, Davion, etc.), but there's something admirable there behind it.
also gonna add to the love of Space AT&T. they're a twisted and terrible faction but with a noble goal at heart, and at least until the wobbies come out, a delightful number of left hand right hand gambits at different goals and schemes working against eachother.... and there's something wonderfully sinister about pristine white battlemechs and dropships coming down that says "ok, someone just screwed up reaalllly bad."
My current favorite, at least in the ilClan era, is Liao since they haven't drank the Clan Coolant-Aid yet. Once Catalyst finally jumps to the 3250's that they've been alluding to in the newer TROs for the past few years now, I'm still hoping it'll be the case.
Interstellar Expeditions / Explorer Corps are great for storytelling and introducing people to the setting at the same time. Start stranded on a backwater with introtech and work your way towards the inner sphere, adding the newer tech and rules along the way.
I guess I look at it as being a fan of a faction isn't supporting them, just finding them interesting
That's a fair way to look at it for sure! Can't say I disagree.
I actually like the retcon, or the clarification. I think it was fantastic, and one of my favourite things covered in my Origins of Comstar video. Jerome didn't do it out of malice either, he was just desperate to "save" humanity, even though he knew the religion would be bullshit.
The best part to me, was Toyama fucked it up, immediately, out the gate, by bypassing the warnings Blake gave him immediately. But, all the same, I love Comstar, XD
I'll gently disagree with you here, Big Red. While I see that perspective, I find that it gives a deep poignancy to ComStar's holy mission that it was functionally perverted at the very inception by a man's lust for power, the very thing ComStar was meant to be a bulwark against all along. That ComStar's mission kind of generally succeeded *anyways* despite Toyama's twisting of Blake's goals speaks to the durability and power of Blake's original design. That things were changed so deeply after Blake's death and done so without his intent I think really deepens and complicates ComStar as an organization throughout history.
I do think there's definitely room for both perspectives here, you can make solid arguments in both directions of course. I love this aspect of BT, it really shows that there's some depth to be explored here and a lot of nuance in the writing. Love it so much.
Oh, and I too am sad that CGL officially confirmed C* is perma-dead. I saw your video about that awhile ago and agreed that it's a loss for the setting.
@@realbloodydoves It's a tragic loss for the setting, but I think it's just bad for business as a whole. :\
@@BigRed40TECH Yeah, I'm agreed with you on that.
Although pre-schism ComStar reminds me of "a canticle for Leibowitz" (not to mention the glorious ass-kicking on Tukayyid 😁), and thus I can't but hold that ComStar dear, my cultural and political beliefs make me stand with Davion and St Ives.
Completely with you on the clans, and I'd have further considerations to add, starting from how Orwellian they are, arriving to their blind stupidity in letting madman Kerensky junior manipulate them, and all that's in between.
Star League heirs my ass!
(I always laugh like hell when super-naive Farah in "of unknown origin" dreams of "what peaceful and wonderful ways could Kerensky 's heirs teach us", LOL!!!)
New to the channel but.....Clan life, agreed, however, what about Aidan and Horse? ConStar? LOL! Wish I’d found the channel sooner!
Clans: Star-faring Mongols crossed with Spartans turned up to 11.
Blake be praised.
Blake be praised indeed, brother.
I've always like House Davion; brutal, smart, and unapologetic about trying to bring the IS under their rule. They are willing to go to far to create a IS that they control. Though, that is my take up to Tukyuid. I'm still catching up on what has happened in the 30 years since I stopped reading the fiction.
ComStar is a great faction, but I confess that post-Schism secular ComStar is my favorite era for them. They had so much potential as THE anti-Clan faction, leading the charge and wrangling the Great Houses, doing their best to point their endless warmongering at the Clans instead of each other. I'd rather like to see a revival of that concept in the ilClan era given the breakdown of central authority in most of the Great Houses and the rise in both chaos and Clan violence in the wake of the fall of Terra.
The Clans are clearly designed as a nightmare amalgamation of Sparta and the Mongols, combining the social structure of the former with its abomination of a caste system, it's systematized child abuse, and its shockingly small capacity for actual warfare, with the high-level political order, organizational structure, and general philosophy of the latter. I've never understood how anyone could like or sympathize with any of the Clans aside from Wolverine (who were purged with extreme prejudice for pointing out just how evil and inefficient Clan society was becoming). Appreciate, sure, in the same way that one can appreciate any extreme culture, but like? Sadly, there are all too many people who actively support the implementation of obviously evil social and government structures, including Sparta, the Mongols, Communists, Fascist, and any number of failed civilizations (if you can even use that term for such vile structures). Interestingly, the Clans borrow most heavily from exactly those places.
Aside from ComStar (especially Secular ComStar) and Clan Wolverine, my preferred faction is House Davion. Their government structure is reminiscent of the medieval Roman state, with a central authority that relies on its military success for its legitimacy, a general sense of both religious and social superiority, a division of the military into a central "guards" and regional "militia" units (the tagmata and themata, respectively) with overly powerful regional commanders who occasionally lead rebellions or cause problems for the central authority, and everyone on their borders being violent and culturally anathema (the Capellans are a near-peer adversary similar perhaps to the steppe peoples who constantly plagued the empire, the Combine are the peer-adversary equivalent to the Caliphate, and the Taurians are the minor power that is a constant thorn in the side and which occasionally causes huge problems, akin to Serbs or Bulgars). They even have a crazy guy who got the army destroyed and who effectively lost the capital to the enemy and then died, only to have the situation recovered by a highly skilled personal combatant who led from the front and managed to rescue the capital (though the parallels of Caleb and Julian to Phocas and Heraclius aren't perfect, they are striking nonetheless).
I couldn't have said it better.
Kudos!
Forget favourite Battletech factions, we need to know about your favourite Trek factions!
Joking aside I couldn't agree with you more about the Clans. When I was much younger I thought the Clans were the absolute coolest, as I'm sure many younger folks did. As I grew up I still think the Clans are the coolest faction, but as a anthropological study lol. They're a beautifully fleshed out alien society.
Favourite faction overall? Raselhague I suppose? Maybe one of the Periphery nations. Canopus is neat. Nobody is good, but I appreciate Periphery states wanting to be left more or less alone.
Favorite Star Trek faction? Honestly, the Federation (at least as depicted in the older shows). While the Admiralty has a lot of goofs in it, I love the idea of a cooperative utopia where things are free and everyone is not only free to pursue their best selves but is actively encouraged to do so. While it's obviously not something that is realistic, it presents a very positive view of the future and believes in people's ability to be good to one another, things I think we need in great abundance in the current social climate.
If we all collectively sat down and said "hey, what if we tried to live up to the example of the Federation from Star Trek" and then actually did try, i think this would be a much nicer world for everyone. I try to live up to that example every day (I don't always make it), maybe others should give it a shot too.
Periphery forever! We have bad guys, good guys and all in between! Honestly, i love the Brotherhood of Randis, and i love more how the ISP book gave them a kind of "Da Vinci Code" angle.
Hah. ISP3 is my favorite BT book of all time. I'm a big fan of Deep Periphery jank. Won't someone think of Frobisher??
@@realbloodydoves i love the whole series. Honestly, would love to see more, but with the current CGL writting style, i seriously doubt they can do sometjing similar.
@@samcalderon7939 Yeah, not sure if we'll ever see ISP4. Maybe one day?
@@realbloodydoves there is always hope.
I think anyone who wants to understand the clans needs to read way of the clans
Also in terms of Star Trek, the clans are more akin to the Jem'Hadar then the Kinglons
They're honestly a bit of a mesh between the two. They have the fanatical nature of the Jem'Hadar but they also have the deeply fundamentally hypocritical "honor for me and not for thee" nature of TNG/DS9-era Klingons. It's not a perfect analogy.
@@realbloodydoves I picked the Jem’Hadar as closer to the clans because they both have gene modification stated out right in their creation.
I do feel that some clans have hope of become more like human in nature but not all clans.
The ghost bears as pointed out are better then most. But what about the Wolf Dragoons, and while yes most were free births, they were still clansmen
Free rasalhague republic has always been my faction of choice. Strong underdog energy was my draw and then I stayed for the repeated heroic last stands and unilateral opposition to the clans. I also liked their relationship with post schism comstar. Sure is a good thing they always retain their independent streak and never yield to clan rule under any circumstances, man it sure would have been shitty writing if they peacefully merged with a clan and became subordinate again after spending the last few centuries trying to exist. That would have been awful, sure is a good thing CGL didn't do that.
Man, that'd just be terrible. It'd be almost as terrible if the peace-loving isolationist Outworlds Alliance decided to willingly submit to Clanner rule. Sure am happy that never happens, what a nightmare that'd be!
I think a thing that really stands out about the clans being just an awful place to live is that wolf dragoons, snoods irregualrs the clan infiltration agents basically went yea no lets not go back to how things were actually and basically "betrayed" their cause even after they saw how much the IS could fuck up they unequivocally went its still less bad than those guys.
Now for my favorite waifu factions I still think the magistracy is my favorite even if they merge with cappella it would be to me almost as bad as the snow raven-outworlds in that the two factions are so absurdly culturally different that the only tie is blood and have nothing but cultural animosity towards each other literally a society of extreme social oppression in cappelllans versus As Social free and lose as is reasonable rulable. Im getting off track, what i like about them is their dedication to civic welfare their end goal is that they want their people to have good enjoyable free lives. I do like old outworlds, FRR, and the taurians for a similar reason.
The dislike of the clans I understand. Though personally i like the canopians
I absolutely agree on the realities of living in the Clans, at best we'd be Technician or Merchant caste but more likely labour caste ; in any case it would suck. And this is coming from someone who loves the Scorpion Empire because I've enjoyed the narrative of watching them being forced to change their society slowly over 100-ish years. Though let's be fair, that anecdote about the Ostcout IIC, while hilarious, would be the same if a mechanic had sassed a Draconis or Capellan noble like that. Heck in that case I don't think anyone would have restrained the noble pilot heh.
But I raise an eyebrow at ComStar. Either they are religious zealots who see no problem destroying cities or using WMDs to get their way, or they're defending mass starving of planets and murder and by their own admission "horrible things" for some nebulous "plan". Frankly I see ComStar as either war criminals, or the bad guy cult in Hot Fuzz always going on about the "Greater Good"
Then again my favorite factions are some merc companies soooo.... I'll just kill you under contract
As I said to someone else, BT is really a matter of "pick the bad that appeals to you". No one's hands are clean, no one's a real hero, everyone's kind of a monster in some way, just roll with the one you like the most and own it. I like the techno-religious zealots who assassinate scientists in the name of knowledge, that doesn't mean I endorse their behavior. :D
@@realbloodydoves It's absolutely true. I do think it's partially why I have been liking the ilKhan Era stuff so far, a lot of it is about how the factions are being forced to change, not just politically but socially. But in the end they're just as prone to fighting and killing each other for the vaguest pretense of power. I do miss the Republic of the Sphere though.
I'm hoping that the IlClan era is a long "pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall" moment for the clans. I somewhat agree with the 'no good guys' in BattleTech school of thought, and I understand that the existence of BattleTech requires perpetual conflict. Surely, the authors have a plan for the Wolf Clan and company, and I am hopeful that they will get theirs in the coming novels. The only thing that somewhat bothers me is the number of Clan Wolf supporters among new fans. Perhaps it is simply youth and/or naivety, but I don't like to see military victory over moral victory, and I don't like to see when individuals root for the equivalent of the Yankees or Real Madrid simply because they have the most victories.
I think the Clan Wolf fans among the new players are just folks who don't know better or know the Wolves history. It's our job as older players to help the new players learn the history and see the bigger picture, something I try to do here on RFBH. If someone wants to like the Clans, they better damn well know the truth of the Clans so they can make an informed choice.
@@realbloodydoves I agree, and I accept your path as my own. Context is essential, and we can't complain about outcomes if we aren't willing to share information.
Also - another great video! I hate i wasn't able to meet in person at Origins. Please keep the thought-provoking content coming, and I appreciate your perspective!
@@grendel42ful No problem, sad to miss you! We'll try and connect next year! :)
You got so mad about the clans you forgot to put a 5 on the card
I literally only noticed like 20 minutes ago and am unhappy about it. :D
Ha ha butte hold
Haha butte hold
haha butte hold
Still Episode 4 eh??
Kidding :)
Seriously: Totally agree about the clans... they are MEANT to be the antagonists. Trying to make them relatable... is a mistake IMO. Started with Phelan Kell's story and not really recovered from.
Fav for me is Kurita... Not because I would want to live there... But because of the depth of intrigue and faux nobility inherent in "lets take Sengoku Era politics and classes and THROW THEM into 30th millennia space empires" and seeing the effects (mostly bad) that would have on a society. The characters created from that system are often fascinating and deep (if somewhat horrifying to modern sensibility) and I love the sense that, it COULD be so great... but Humanity is a thing... and thus the militant backstabbing and intrigue will continue.
Canopus forever! Relatively progressive, high tech in certain senses (medicine etc), decent tech in others in the ilClan era, decent military, in a place to make moves or hold their own, isn't really an asshole to anyone
Worth noting: the Magistracy of Canopus also has deep ties to the Capellans and have supported them militarily numerous times. Even married into House Liao and the current ruling Magistrix is the sister (or cousin but I think sister) of the current Chancellor. Interesting nation, has a lot going on.
@@realbloodydoves For sure, which I feel mixed about, even as much as I'm tired of the kneejerk "Capellans=bad" jokes. I think they're more complex than they get credit for, and applaud them for having signature tech that they use a lot like stealth and plasma.
@@frankharris4876 The Capellans are *interesting* and they're also kind of monstrous. The servitor system is just functionally state-sponsored slavery pretending it isn't (at least the Marians are honest about it). They've engaged in war crimes against their enemies and their own people quite a lot, more than probably anyone else other than the Dracs.
That said, the Cappies also have a lot of security and stability and are incredibly resilient even when they were absolutely at their lowest state during the 4th Succession War. They make some interesting tech and unique designs as well. I don't think they're good people but I don't think basically anyone in BT actually is so it's sort of "what flavor of bad people do you prefer". For me, it's religious zealots who do tech rituals. For others, it's bio-engineered alien Mongols. Pick yer flavor and go nuts with it!
clab ghost bear and clan wof are the best
I’ll agree with ghost bear. Clan wolf on the other hand is ehhh for me.