Ron Williams on Punishing Children (Independent Fundamental Baptist Sermon)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2024
- TRIGGER WARNING | CHILD ABUSE
Ron Williams is the founder of Hephzibah House, a “troubled teen home” that permanently closed in 2020 after decades of allegations of abuse.
These snippets come from a message preached around 2003 in Northeast Ohio at a supporting church of Hephzibah House.
(Edits have been made for time.)
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This man and his wife were beyond frightening. I live in this town and have worked with him for print projects and their rev and worked with one of his sons. It’s unbelievable that the State of Indiana couldn’t stop this place that terrorized multitudes of children. Thank you for exposing this true example of evil.
These people are actually laughing at this... that's the most disturbing part for me. 😡😡😡
It's fun to laugh about tormenting children. And this isn't even exclusive to the IFB.
Sadists
Couldn’t listen to the whole thing but totally thrilled to learn that Hephzibah House has been closed.
This was being preached by a “Christian?” What a sicko!
Someday that kid will grow up and be stronger then the parent. Remember this. And also they will decide where you will spend your years in a nursing home.....
I was raised with this kind of violence, and audio like this is not unfamiliar to me. I remember one of the ministers at our church relating a story about an infant who was crying in church. The minister stopped the service, and said to the infant's mother, "You take that child outside, and you MAKE him stop crying." And everyone laughed. I don't know what they enjoyed more, the thought of this tiny baby being beaten for crying, or the public humiliation of his exhausted mother. Perhaps they were just relieved that they were not the target of this minister's wrath.
The church we went to did a lot of scare-mongering about child rearing. They told parents that if they didn't enforce strict, authoritarian discipline through violence, their children would become criminals, or worse, apostates. To the contrary, the violence they encouraged in our homes tore families apart, and pushed the younger generation out of the church. The trauma drove a lot of my peers into really dark places.
But on a happier note, my sister is a wonderful mother, and once said to me, "You know, I love raising children. It's a lot like growing a garden. You just give them what they need, and they become what they are." Instead of setting unreasonable expectations, and enforcing them through violence, she supports, guides, and nurtures her children. She delights in who her children are, and so she can enjoy their childhood.
Funny she says raising children is like growing a garden. I think it was scientifically proven that speaking kindly to plants is in fact good for their health. If gentleness is good for vegetables, which aren't even sapient, how much better is it for children?
Violence huh Holly. Its people like you who cannot discern between discipline and abuse that is really the reason the world is so messed up.
@@JohnnyCashOriginal If you believe that my church encouraging people to beat their infants was merely good discipline, I urge you never to have children.
This is sick. He gets way too much enjoyment of hitting kids. So wrong.
IFB culture provides a safe environment for sexual predators and sadists.
Your kids will probably end up unsaved and remain lost.
@@Emper0rH0rde use discernment. Pedos are everywhere Ruben. Anyone who sends their kids to school to neglect the responsibility to teach them sends them to a place filled with pedophiles and atheists. Good job, mentioning the obvious
I never hit my boys... They had a currency at every age and they got less or none if they misbehaved and extra when they excelled. We stuck by it 100% and they knew exactly what would happen. Both did well in school, zero behavioral issues and successful. Discipline they need not being hit. In the real world your teacher, boss, coworkers do not slap you if you mess up. We are raising them for the real world.
I'm not saying a child never needs to be spanked. But it is definitely abuse if that is the only punishment they get. You should really if ever need to hit your child. And not like this guy who seems to really love beating children. I think no discipline should be done out of anger, and the child should always know what he did wrong and why he's being punished. This guy is totally sick.
I've grown up in this cult and only recently realised how corrupt they are. I am disgusted. I am ashamed to even have been affiliated. This is the 'doctrine' my parents listened to? This explains the 17 years of physical abuse. "The rod of correction..." Has broken me more than just my physical body. Thank you for exposing the reality of this cult.
I think he needs to be disciplined according to his emotional age. I am not against discipline, but ??? Rainbow bottom? Uhhh- no. Spare the rod, spoil the MOG.(Man of god.) Maybe it will drive the foolishness from him. Hope springs eternal...
Thank you for posting this. It is so important for people to know these things are being preached
This is demonic sadism 🤢🤮😭
This guy is a freak. He laughs through out this tantrum. He should be in jail.
Like so many "disciplinarian" IFB pastors, he's just a sadist who uses his position as an outlet to torture children. People like Ron Williams and Bill Reeves? Torturing children is literally what they do for *fun,* and they get away with it by labeling it "discipline." And in Bill Reeves' case, threatening to literally hunt down and murder his victims if they ever dare to tell anyone.
My grandpa (IFB pastor) believes babies are sinning when they cry if it’s not for hunger because that’s their “sin nature”
Yeah it’s definitely not because it’s their only form of communication and they are trying to get their needs met.
If babies are sinning then how do they get "saved"? Ask you IFB grandpa that.
@@michaelgriswold1809 if I didn’t avoid any type of spiritual conversation with him, I would 😂
@@ashleyk8805 I hate to say it but it's hard to win a debate with them since they usually won't let the other side speak and then they will talk about you in some sermon on how they won.
What a hate filled heart that man has. I would never follow the teachings of anyone connected to him.
Listening to this makes me sick to my stomach. This was how I was raised....but in the 70s and 80s you could do all this right in front of people and no one would report it. I often wonder today how many years my parents would have spent in jail for how much they hit is with....the belt, with 2×4s, with tree branches, with wooden spoons and ping pong paddles.....and with their bare hands. Growing up in this Baptist cult-ure was so abusive, and not just physically.
I once read a particularly harrowing story from a woman who was raised in this manner. She suffered severe PTSD, which often manifested in night terrors, numerous physical health problems such as IBS, as well as sexual dysfunction, because the hindquarters are an erogenous zone. The poor woman had repaired what was left of her relationship with her parents, but some of the damage was irreparable; she still couldn't bear to be touched in any way by either one of them.
Oh the spoon the spoon.. what nostalgia.. childhood was so great. Because I said so. You're ungrateful. Rebellious sinner. Whore. Can't cry don't show that it's a sin to be depressed there's no such thing as mental illness and medication is against God's will and you'd be fine if you were right with God. Just get right with God.
Fucking hell at least you opened your eyes. So many don't. And the trauma just continues generation after generation.. just a cesspool of shame brainwashing developing minds . I feel worse for the ones still stuck. For the pain those that abused us must have gone through in order to become that disjointed and self loathing. I am lucky I had a rebellious sinful spirit. I get to live my life with autonomy and love. I get to be inside my body in mindful moments with sporadic episodes instead of contently falling into dissociation and psychosis.
well, there were plenty of times where like texas (this was in the 70s and 80s) tried to get Roloff's Rebekah home for girls and the other one for boys, shut down because of abuse and because of licensing that the Lester Roloff wouldn't permit to happen because of "religion"... There have been reports of abuse about Camp Tracey too and this was in the 80s and people went to check up on them to see if the kids there were abused...as they heard from people who left. The law hasn't changed in regards to abuse.
Is this really from 2003? The recording quality and overall message sound like 1940
IFB is probably really behind in technology.
Interesting. I have good kids and never had to hit them. They get in trouble, but we just fix the problem through understanding.
I find that “the rod of correction” is a spiritual tool, and it’s one of many, not the only.
Hitting people is just authoritarian, and no one follows an authoritarian out of their own will.
The imagery of "the rod" in the Bible is a reference to a shepherd's staff. A good shepherd does not hit his flock with his rod. He uses it for the purpose of keeping wayward sheep out of danger, and defending the flock from harm.
Their website is still active. In 1989, Fairhaven Baptist College, Chesterton, Indiana, presented the “Fighting Fundamentalist of the Year” award to Pastor Williams. And his son (which the website doesn't specifically state), Don Williams, graduated from Hyles-Anderson, is pastor of the church that oversaw Hephzibah House. Keeping it in the family is one way to mitigate honest scrutiny.
Hyles SIL, Schaap, who replaced him at FBC Hammond, went to jail for sexual abuse.
All I can say is, this man has major problems.
Maybe they say "no" and "mine," as a TOTALLY NORMAL part of learning INDEPENDENCE. They have been unable to communicate for nearly two years, and you expect them to be a passive, predictible animal. As someone who was raised in a home with this form of abuse, it destroyed my joy and trust in my parents, every time they would hit me. I am now a mom to a 14 month old son, and I hardly ever need to discipline him, even though he's strong-willed. Baby sign language, a TON of patience (guess Williams has NONE of that, eh??) and a willingness for ME to be wrong. Gasp! A parent could misunderstand their child's needs??!! Absolutely. How often do we say NO and MINE?? Hypocrite. We are not God, and children are not OWNED, they are GIVEN. One day, they will take care of us. How do we forget they will one day be just as we now are????
A monstrous man
This is absolutely repulsive. He’s publicly advocating child abuse, and his cronies are chuckling in agreement. Newsflash: if you have to resort to assaulting your children to correct their behavior out of fear, you are failing as a parent! Why is it that if you strike another adult, you can go to jail for 5 to 20 years for abuse, but if you strike a helpless child that is much smaller than you, you get a free pass because it’s a “parenting choice”??? My parents beat me with belts, ping pong paddles, a pancake spatula, switches, and an open hand. My mom used to slap me across the face whenever she didn’t like my attitude, even for something as simple as not saying “ma’am.” Then, they’d make me thank them for beating me. I’m in my mid 30’s with children of my own who I’ve never raised a hand to, and I still find myself getting upset that my parents abused me.
My dad whipped me with a belt but he was Catholic so does that make him or good bad.
Spare the rod, spoil the child.... Always the go-to for excusing abuse. But what about "Thy rod & thy staff, they comfort me "
A shephard used his rod & staff to direct, protect and to lean on. They didn't use it to beat their sheep.
Technically, the rod of a shepherd was used for physical direction… I’m not saying I agree with the speaker…
What an evil man he is. The people 😆 in the background are just as sick and evil. Nothing he said was funny to me.
Closing down the teen home was a long overdue blessing.
Lori i hope you dont have children. What a vile reprobate you are
Isn't it a bit peculiar that people often do to children things that would land land them in jail if they did them to adults?
This sort of teaching is little more than an outlet for sadists.
My mother turned the air conditioner way up so neighbors could not hear my screaming
Gross and twisted.
I remember hearing Ron Williams preach this exact message at my church growing up… not sure if this recording is from my church but man I remember this message like it was yesterday!
This literally made me sick…
This guy just spoke at the church we were going too! It is my husband’s cousin’s IFB church. We needed a new place to go and thought they were pretty old fashioned, being in our 70’s ourselves, thought it might be a good change to sing hymns for a while. After 2 years we are OUT. We left over the fact that even in expository preaching there was no grace. So much condemnation if you are not constantly working!!! We got tired of false lawgivers and the pietists who were trying to convince you they were sanctified by their works. I’ll take the grace of God and His help in my life any day over that!! We should have known better.,But now that we’re out I have been looking into some of the abuses.
Dude sounds like a lunatic.
We were at a church about 6 weeks ago and Ron had been there preaching the month before. He makes me sick!!
What he described was the start of a defensive shooting situation.
Triggering…grew up under this teaching, belief system, and household 😢
I went to a so called Christian school that had a teacher who was like this. She would bully me. I was severly bullied there. But she was gonna use me for a example one day and i finally had enough i told her that if struck me for no reasom i would strike her back. She chuckled and walked out. She later quit. I even had a knife held to my throat there later on by a jock. They might get away with this in this world. But God will severly punish them for giving him and his true ministry a horrble name.
hmmm...might need to get measured for a millstone...
Disgusting!!
Disgusting.and sadistic
Sick
I was in an IFB home when i was 14.....I'd fix this guy.
I go to prisons and deal with men that their parents didn't train their children like Dr. Williams is teaching, and the number is far more than those that Bro.Ron worked with, and by the way he helped some. I am sure that the greater number didn't listen and were bitter at him. They were those that listen to Jesus and they are ruined, I know that Godly training will work!!!!!!!!!!!!
This guy, if he hasnt already, will get the same chastening from my Father for his disobedience as he judged the least of these. I pray he repents.
This is why gun rights should be permitted
This man is not of God, children don't even have memories up until the age of 4? Why do you think that is? Could it be God's way of protecting them from things like the pain of teething? Falling from trying to walk...anything traumotising to the soul of a little helpless baby, but crucial to their development?
There are moments when the tone of his voice sounds incredibly sinister. Chilling.
So sad to hear this lame interpretation of scripture is still going on in 2021.
Thankfully most have moved on to more enlightened approach to child rearing.
My dad kicked me in the butt because I did not butter toast to his satisfaction. He use to get frustrated with me when he tried to help me my homework he would pull me out of my seat and toss my across the room back at the desk. When he tried to teach me to drive his big Ford at age 9,10, 11 etc he would scream at me, insult me and slap me for not picking it up as quickly as he felt I should. He also liked to wet his belt before spanking me with it. He was Catholic though not IFB.
This is absolutely disgusting
Why are people laughing at what this man is saying ?! He is calling crying babies selfish little things , that’s disgusting . It’s important that people see what was preached in this church .
Of course the child will obey - out of literal fear and terror
Sadist
Awful hearing this. I grew up getting skelpit backsides from my mother she knew no other way but this is way more sinister
My parents loved me, wanted me, and raised me accordingly to Dr. Spock. No hitting, talking about life is what we had, one on one time, eye contact. My brother and I both grew up to have master's degrees and good lives. Not a SINGLE person I know hits their kids, and they have wonderful productive children. But... I'm a therapist. And a large majority of my clients are in the legal system, and guess what?? ALL of them were hit and subjected to physical punishment. It's LAZY parenting. My parents worked so hard and they still took all the time to be good parents to us and didn't hurt us as a short cut.
I LITERALLY had this convo the other day . I never hit my child either . I was at a table of old women telling me that I need the “whoop” my grandsons behind (he’s two!😳) I was trying to explain to them how do you discipline behavior if you don’t know the root of the behavior . It’s much more productive to sit a child down and figure out the “why” . Spanking just leads to trauma and fear . Not good behavior and respect …
Are you saved? Are you going to heaven when you die? Do you love God? You can be a successful according to the world but if you miss God then you're going to spend eternity in hell and nothing on Earth matters.
@@steavey301 people just have that belief, I think they had to embrace it or they'd have felt rage about how they were raised. Because of trauma. Fortunately I think this is getting less and less. Hopefully in a generation or two, hitting children will be considered unimaginable. I agree with how you're raising your son 100%. I work with people who have been to jail and almost all if them received a lot of physical punishment. So the argument that you have to frighten and hurt children to keep them out of jail is totally not supported by any evidence at all.
The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame - proverbs 29:15
Wow. 🙁
Listen to this guy's grown son describe him . .. he's a monster.
@@Emper0rH0rde it sounds like the son didn't become his father, at least not completely. I guess it didn't " work*
Wouldn't be surprised if this guy doesn't show up in heaven LOL
"On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’" - Matthew 7:22-23
This man is a real sicko 😠😡
This video always puts me back in a fetal position because I grew up with this
This is another thing that turn's me off the IFB. Psychology mixed with the bible. I've never hear this in the SBC. Yes, Proverbs 22:6 does say "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." That's for the parents not the pastor telling them what to do on a Sunday or Wednesday church service.
If hitting children is training up a child in the way he should go, and he will not depart from it when he is old, then why do so many people leave the IFB and become atheists because of this kind of "discipline"?
@@Emper0rH0rde 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
@@michaelgriswold1809 Sooooo... Calvinism? There was never any hope for them anyway, because they were born destined for hell, and no amount of hitting them as defenseless children was ever going to do them any good regardless? Because it sounds an awful lot like what your prooftexting is implying.
You never hear the gospel in sbc either
@@JohnnyCashOriginal "Hello, I'm Johnny Cash"😆😅🤣😂
Hard to believe. This is still going on😡
It doesnt happen that much anymore, which is why most kids and likely yours too, are on their way to get abortions at 10yrs old and in and out of juvenile detention during their teen years. Its likely why there are so many trannys and pedophiles running rampant and getting treated with tolerance and compassion while they abuse the young innocent children who come from good homes.
It’s part of the adult training on how to break the will of your children 😢
What's wrong with breaking the will of your children, as long as you don't break their spirit?
Violence against children is never ok. Period.
Turn to Yeshua=Jesus and Only Him. He Loves You so much. Trust Him that We He did for you is Real and you are indeed Redeemed. Speak with Him as you would with a Friend. He is all you will ever need, not a Instution, Re Lie gion or fellow Human Sinners. He-Yeshua gives Peace and Joy which superseeds All Things. All You must do is accept His Gift and trust Him to lead You, for He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. And He will give You His Spirit of Truth which will help You to steer Clear of false Shepherds, bc you do NOT need any of them. Not for nothing HE said, its by their Works ye will recognise them and He also said noone comes to the Father-God only through Me. So turn to Him, if you want that is. Much Love.
This is disgusting. You don't spank a baby. Thry cry because they are communicating and can't talk. Terrible preaching. Spank them once they understand what no means and they deliberately disobey.
How about we just not hit our children at all? It's not worth the risk of causing them psychological, physiological, and emotional damage they may never recover from. My parents did it purely from a place of love. Neither my mother nor my father have, or have ever had, a sadistic cell in their bodies. Yet I suffered emotional, psychological, and sexual trauma as a direct result of corporal punishment. I am 33 years old, and I still have not fully healed. The marks it leaves are invisible, and therefore far deeper and more damaging.
@@Emper0rH0rde
He who spareth the rod hateth his son, but he that loveth him chaseneth him betimes.
Im not sure who has a baby that is 30lbs.. use your discernment and common sense
Those discusting atheist don't do that?
Shameful 😥😡
Literally a sadist
I'm against abuse, but the Bible says not to spare the rod. Under the law, kids who were rebellious were stoned. Are you going to say that God doesn't know what he's doing? Are you going to say that God's mean and abusive?
No….you don’t know what you are doing. So your entire child raising view is shaped from these 5 words, which paraphrased. Nice.
Just based on the terrible argument you provided….
Proverbs is filled with…yep you guessed it…Proverbs. A collection of poetry and wisdom used as a guide and help.
So you read “spare not the rod” in Proverbs and compare that to 4 verses about stoning in Deuteronomy?
I guess I’m going to go buy a steel rod and some thick work gloves. The gloves to protect my hands from calluses while wielding the rod. The Bible doesn’t say if it should be wood or steel so I’m going with what will last longer. Does 100 swings sound like a good starting point??
Hurry and please answer. The school bus will be here any minute with my daughter and I want to get a pic of her face when she sees…”what the Bible says”.
ASXHOLE
I hate him
Wow! I've not read one comment that didn't say how horrible and disgusting this teaching is. Yet his entire point was biblical truth. First of all, I'm not for abuse of any kind, especially to children. But proper discipline and spanking is not violence. Also, I don't agree with the use of words and bad humor. He was wrong to do so. He took this to the extreme. But there's no denying what the Bible says. Infants are sinners - Job 5:7, Job 14:1. I don't agree with striking an infant but there are other ways of discipline. Especially when kids get older parents should implement spanking, not injuring or abuse, which he did explain and distinguish clearly - Proverbs 23:13-14. The problem with much of this is that spanking and discipline was not done properly by parents, and therefore concluded that it doesn't work. But it does.
So for all those that say this teaching is horrible, what does the Bible teach about child rearing? Unless you don't think that God gave instructions for it.
Do you think bruising your child and hiding it from medical professionals is okay?
@@PreacherBoys No I don't but do you really think that's what he said? I think you need to listen to it again. Many times he said injury was not the goal. Bruising is not the goal, it's just the effect of proper discipline. I don't think the bruising should be much at all but sometimes it might be. That's why God said for parents to beat (spank) their children and don't spare for their crying because they won't die. A little bruising is not bad and can be a reminder that sin hurts. Also he said parents should be wise in our day with how the world, our society, views Bible discipline of children. They view it as child abuse so they have no problem turning in a Christian parent to authorities. He didn't advocate for purposely hiding bruising. Do you think spanking is child abuse?
Regardless this devil is wicked! I knew and heard him personally.
Out of almost 11 minutes this guy preached about 20 seconds of Bible and the rest was his own twisted nonsense.
Well, the Bible teaches that you should have disobedient children executed.