Not commenting on whether he's "allowed" to claim "culturally queer" - but just for context, as a long time gleek and fan of Darren, he's not just basing that on watching or even playing queer characters, he grew up as a theatre kid in San Francisco in the 90s, he's talked about the gay men who were his role models, and watching waay too many of them die of AIDS. He's also joked that he was as surprised as everyone else when he wound up actually being straight. And John Cameron Mitchell (writer of Hedwig and the Angry Inch) once referred to him as "the queerest straight man I've ever met". He's also just extremely comfortable with being perceived as stereotypically queer. Whether that's a worthy claim, i can't say, just as someone who follows him, just thought I'd pass along thats its not just based on rolls taken or media consumed..
Yeah, I was a fan of him back in the Starkid days and haven't been following him since (for no particular reason, I just didn't enjoy Glee), and I was thinking the same thing
@@KuueenKumi a queer disabled women "taking the piss" at a straight white famous guy on whether or not he's "culturally queer" is fine. Punching up, but more like a tap than a full punch 😅
Yes, it's clear queer culture has defined Darren's personality and experience and I'd even say it shows in how he plays his characters. Again, I'm not the queer police to say he is or isn't culturally queer, but he's definitely not a stereotypical cishet man that wants to claim culturally queer because his closest coworker is gay either
My friend group calls people who have deeply explored their gender and sexuality and still ended up straight/heterosexual, cis+ and straight but not narrow :)
I used to call those people “super straight” but then… the transphobes started calling themselves that … Idk, maybe I can call them “extra straight” or sth
That would describe 2 of my teenage children. Actually I don't think they've completely settled on a sexuality , though one says straight and the other says ace, that changes regularly. Both have considered themselves trans at some point but now cis, and both have dated same sex partners (though not same gender).
@@Anonyomus_commenterOne of my partners knows _way_ more about maths than I, and it kinda turns me on when she gets excited about it. Neither of us is straight nor really ace, but I nevertheless approve of your notion very strongly. 🙂
I've met two cis het men that I labeled "culturally gay" in my own head back in the 1990s and 2000s. One had a gay older brother and spent his teen years surrounded by his brother's friends. The other had been a theater major and had similarly socialized mostly with gay men. Both had unconsciously taken on some physical behaviors that are queer coded--enough that they were sometimes read as gay men by gay men.
Love this! And honestly love the brief mention she made of the OPPOSITE, of queer folks who *aren't* culturally queer. They can be sooo frustrating imo, they're often the queers who like deny other queers?? And will like, argue against queer rights, and they'll be sooo pick me about it like oh I'm not like those annoying queers I'm a cool queer and they can be just as toxic as a straight up homophobe. Like it can be so jarring to talk to a fellow queer and realize they're like. Not on your side so to speak? Like, sometimes they're not even on their own side adjft.
It's hard to define because most queer people weren't raised with a queer culture either. Especially people who came out later can be very obviously queer but really not understand a lot of culture they're supposedly part of. There can be a lot of imposter syndrome in that situation.
We weren’t raised with a queer culture, but many of us still grew up with decent amounts of time in one. I was in theater and in a social context among friends in high school where being queer-particularly bi, but queer in general-was so the norm that one of our friends genuinely had to come out as straight That particular circumstance is unusual but a lot of kids who did theater and girls who played softball and stuff, let alone joined a GSA or something, will grow up with a certain amount of that from the other kids they grew up with, even if it’s not facilitated by adults
Very true. I think people whose identities face scrutiny over whether they’re “queer enough” (ie bisexuals, asexuals, trans people who don’t medically transition, etc) can experience something similar too. Ultimately it’s important to remember that you are still queer regardless of how you relate to the larger community. The culture doesn’t get to define your identity, that’s up to you and only you.
@@canislupus4655 In my case I've only been out as a trans woman for a couple years so while I am probably the most unavoidably visibly queer person I know even among trans people, I often feel like I know the culture the least. How I look is an honest expression of who I am but when I hear language I don't understand or don't know what people are talking about I feel like I'm faking.
@@SanityVideo I definitely feel the same way sometimes. I’ve never been great at keeping up with the latest trends and haven’t really lived in very queer areas. I’ve also been pushed out of queer spaces before for people not thinking I’m “queer enough.” I kind of had to decide for myself, and with the support from people close to me, that I knew I was queer and that was enough. It’s hard, of course, and I still doubt myself, but I think I can live with that.
“I’m not the queer police but I’m still gonna have an opinion” 10/10 I wish more discourse was like this. Like, I’m not gonna stop someone from living their life but I do have thoughts about its implications that I wanna yap about.
I agree, but I also think having an opinion isn’t always necessary. The video she implies that her opinion is that Darren Criss may not be culturally queer because watching RuPaul’s drag race doesn’t make someone culturally queer. That only makes sense if that’s the reason he considers himself culturally queer - and it isn’t.
@@lindsayswarthout9227 "isnt necessary" doesnt make sense to me. opinions arent controlled, they just happen as you move through life and react to the world around you. they just sort of happen, its the sharing and action (aka "queer police") that matters.
@@MediecreGoddess if you want to share it and sharing it is part of being the queer police then you are being the queer police. If you consider it to be both saring and action then you aren't queer police unless you phisically restrain someone, which is weird. Idk lol those boundaries seem kind of weird. This just feels like a mental barrier such as "no offense". It may soften it a bit, but it's still an opinion she is divulging knowingly. Of course most creators don't want to generate a cult following and expect their viewers to consider their words critically anyway. Saying that outright doesn't make it not a standard she is setting. Same thing happens with you or anybody. All "standards" you set are a display of your judgements or opinions that then form the structure of your morality. saying your judgements don't set a standard is not gonna make that true. It just makes you feel better about it. Not going after people is the minimum for an adult. That would make you like a cop. We each are allowed our judgements but they're still judgements and they do not come and go like whispers without any relationship to anything else in our mind. The approach of "I'm not gonna judge but yes I will actually" will always be less genuine than variations such as "I am judging but you can live your life anyway cause we all judge things and sometimes it's ok to be alive". Like, objectively speaking opinions are articulated judgements and judgements set out morals or adjust to them. If you want people to not feel attacked just say that you are not attacking them. Don't overdo it by saying you are not doing the whole activity you are doing. That's how you avoid being "the queer police". By not lying like the police do.
As others have mentioned, Darren grew up in the San Francisco theatre community. He attended University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, a very liberal, diverse, and international city. His breakout role was a high profile gay teenager in Glee and his first major acting award was for a gay role in The Assassination of Gianni Versace. He owns an LA piano bar called Tramp Stamp Granny's modeled after Marie's Crisis in NYC. He's been on Broadway for a decade including the trans lead in Hedwig and hosts an annual Broadway concert called Elsie Fest. He & his wife married in New Orleans in a big three day music party. His mother is Filipina, and he's proud of his Asian heritage. He uses fashion intentionally. He's been a loyal and outspoken LGBTQ+ ally. Yes, Darren is culturally queer.
I was at the panel where he said that and this quote has been taken out of context over and over again. He was responding to a kind of rude question about whether it was difficult for him to play a gay character in Glee and he said that he’d been raised around and basically by queer people and watched many of them die during the AIDS crisis. He said for him it wasn’t abnormal and it felt easy to play a queer character because he’s always been surrounded by queer culture. He wasn’t trying to claim anything that wasn’t his.
In the 80s/90s there were straight guys that hung out in gay circles, I don't think anyone questioned it. There was an older gay guy, he was an architect/furniture designer, and he had a straight guy that was constant company, perhaps because he was a wealth of knowledge, i really don't know, non-issue then, I think people would be very gossip-y now. i really don't understand why people are so up in everyone else's business, seems like it would be tiring.
I honestly did not question it very much when Darren Criss said that he was culturally queer because it makes sense, not even just because of his roles in glee and other projects where he played a gay man. He actively spoke on queer identity and what it meant for the public to see and accept on their screens and lives. He is very loving and supporting of the queer community and I think it is something to be said to the fact that everyone was completely flabbergasted when they found out that he was in fact a straight man. He moved through the theatre world, a historically very queer space and was around queerness often, seeing many of his own friends go through their identity journey and some even passing from AIDs in that time. He himself even questioned whether or not he was queer and was shocked that he was straight in his sexuality because he exhibited many of the stereotypical identifiers that are signed to being queer. He has been said by many queer people that he use the queerest straight person they’ve ever ever met. He is an advert advocate for the community and is a long time supporter of the Trevor Project. He has gone out to be a performer at multiple charity events for the LGBTQ community. So everyone being up in arms about him, saying that he identifies as culturally queer doesn’t make sense, when in reality it suits him very well because that is the space that he has moved in and spoken up for for most of his life.
A recent issue is lesbian content creators have been using the terms culturally queer/culturally straight as a way of othering bisexual women who they've decided aren't culturally queer enough.
I'm not deaf, but (as I understand it) some will talk about being culturally deaf; people who are immersed in deaf culture, speak in sign, move in deaf circles, etc. versus people who merely happen to be deaf; like if my grandfather loses his hearing, and has no knowledge or interest in sign, no connection to deaf culture, etc. There are also CODAs, or Children Of Deaf Adults, who can hear, but are also immersed in deaf culture from a young age. I can certainly see someone being a COQA, or maybe COGA, as being a signifier of being a part of queer culture.
I've been severely hearing impaired since 1.5 years old but not at all culturally deaf. I did do a summer camp at a deaf school as a kid & did meet some great people, but just didn't feel like that was where I belonged. Being immersed in the "regular hearing world" turned out to be the best thing for me, but wouldn't necessarily be the best for everyone.
Deaf with a capital D refers to Deaf culture. I'm personally hoh and identify as Deaf, though for me it's less because I've had a lot of access to Deaf spaces and sign language---I haven't---and more because of how my identity separates me from hearing norms, and I want to seek out more Deaf spaces.
Eh you gotta be careful with this one. I'm an ASL interpreter so I'm pretty immersed in Deaf culture but I wouldn't call myself culturally Deaf, just well versed in it. CODAs are often culturally Deaf if their parents are, but for any other hearing person I'd be aware the Deaf community is pretty protective over its culture and identity (at least in America, idk about other countries)
@@kaitlynmarie5545THAT, though I'd say that's similar to queer culture. You're welcome at parties/meet ups, maybe even participate, as long as you play by our rules. But you're never one of us ie culturally queer/Deaf. Similarily there are experiences cis straight/hearing can never know, but are core experiences.
I feel like this is an incredibly online conversation- and I don't mean that to play the discussion down. (SORRY FOR THE LENGTH I HAVE THOUGHTS) At every queer space or event or even obviously queer group of people I have been to, nobody is asked for the details of their specific identity. People assume, by your looks and your pronouns obviously, and they can be right or wrong, but that rarely plays into conversation of any kind. That immensely helps people who feel adjacent to the space but can't really pinpoint how or why (and they might never do and nobody cares) as well as people who just feel comfortable in this culture. If you are a safe person to be around you are largely included in queer spaces. I can however understand the conversation happening on a very deeply personal level. I have had friends perplexed because they felt somehow queer even if they were straight. And there is obviously not a clear cut answer to this, and everyone knows themselves better. But imo, if you feel in some way welcomed and helped and you fit in queer spaces and you wanna call yourself queer- you are queer. The biggots walking down the street don't care about how you Identify. They are going to harass you for the way you are dressed and behave, and the way the people around you do so too.
This! And hell! A lot of folks I know eventually realized they are bi or trans this way! Including myself lol. Why can I relate to men while still being super attached to being a woman? Maybe because I land in the middle somewhere
My husband is not only married to me (a no binary person) and surrounded by queer friends that I've brought to the table; he also had lots of queer friends before meeting me and is constantly having to come out as "straight" because he reads as queer. I would say that counts!
If you date a non-binary person doesn't that make you at least bi? Like oopsi bi. I would find it hurtful if my husband said he was straight because that feels like erasing my gender. I also know a lesbian whose partner came out as a trans man and they stayed together, so it's kinda an 'oopsy bi'. Like they are bi for you. 🤷 Idk.
@@nicomoist5336 Shayne cuffing his jeans with his she/they wife and watching other women propose to her for bits cheering her on. We love supportive straight husbands to queer wives and straight wives supportive of queer husbands and every mix of identity
I think his helps me explain my own situation - I’m aroace, but I don’t feel connected to the queer community in general, so I guess I can now explain it as “queer but not culturally queer”.
I had to look up 'aroace'-thanks for enlightening me. I see you, my friend, and would welcome you to the queer circles I mix in, and hope you'd enjoy the culture. But if not, no drama, and I'll still think about you whenever I wave a Pride flag… even though at least one of the aroace colours turns out still to be missing…
I mean, I see queer people (mostly on the internet) tell us that we don't count as queer pretty regularly, so. 🤷🏻♀️ While I'm aroace and I *do* feel connected, it's mostly with other folks whose queerness is gatekept (bi and pan people, non-binary folks) or who are otherwise *also* rejected by the queer police. Which turns out to be most of the rest of the acronym... funny that.
Same, I’ve had mostly queer friends so I’m very familiar with the culture, but as an aroace who’s also not into clubbing or bars, there’s really not much for me. Most events include alcohol, lewd jokes or performances and are just generally really loud with no chill. Which is fine and fun once a year, but gosh I’d really love an ace-club. ’Cos I do like to dance every once in a while, just the presence of alcohol, assumed sexual interest and bad music means there’s no club to go to. Lgbtqia+ parties at least often have better music and more welcoming atmosphere. And no, where I live there’s no alcohol-free clubs, if there were I’d try them out for sure.
honestly the fact that most people get surprised when they find out he’s straight (and the fact he embodies this, respects this, and uses this as a way to be an ally) is enough for me to accept him being culturally queer, but maybe i’m not as concerned w gatekeeping random labels like this
I agree . I grew up in Berkeley , and then I went to a very progressive art school for college , I knew it wasn’t the status quo experience, just always thought it was a better way to move through life , surrounded by creative and interesting people. It’s sad that people are so bigoted and biased they can’t evolve their understanding of gender expression.
I want to point out that queer culture was formed out of our shared history in a heteronormative society. The pressure queer people face to be "just normal" reads as an attempt to deny our unique experiences as queer people and undermine our solidarity.
But that's kind of exactly what she's saying, there's a difference between experiencing queerness through things like dragrace or just casual experiences like that and actually being intertwined with the culture itself
I don’t know how I feel about the label “culturally queer” other than I probably wouldn’t openly define myself as such if I wasn’t actually queer, but as a Darren fan who is queer I completely understand what he meant by it. He grew up as a theatre kid in a fairly diverse city, idolising queer adults he saw around him, many of whom he later watched die of AIDS. He also if I remember correctly, faced oodles of homophobia when he played Blaine in Glee, because people saw him as gay then. His diverse upbringing shaped a lot of his identity and most likely influenced how comfortable he is with having a more femme or fluid gender expression.
Wasn’t expecting lowkey Darren Criss dig here today lol. I love the way you usually do your research on topics, so I’d recommend taking another look into this one.
It's not really a dig though? She literally explains why it makes sense, just that it's important to make sure we understand it's proper use so it doesn't get thrown around willy nilly
Same! I’m bi and it took so long to “figure out” that I was bi (even though I’m very obviously bi), partially because of stuff like this that made me feel unwelcome in the lgbt community. Despite attending GSA for 2 years of high school and the majority of my friends being lgbt, I haven’t felt fully welcome in the lgbt community until this year (I’m 21). If I was a creator I definitely wouldn’t use my platform like this.
I'm not fully aware of Darren Criss's history but I know he was quite the theater kid long before Glee. I'd argue being immersed in theater would make someone at least a bit culturally queer
Yeah, I assumed he was either a gay man or theater kid. Sometimes theater kids end up seeming "queer coded" for lack of a better word, though I don't think that term can actually be applied to real life people lol
@shirleymarie2288 Only reason I knew he wasn't gay was because during the Glee craze I had a bit of a crush on him and looked it up. I was very disappointed when I learned the truth lol
Iirc the main reason he said that in that interview was because he grew up in San Francisco which is very connected to queer culture. I'm not sure how I feel about this but I do sorta get where he's coming from if queer culture was very normalized around him since that is really not the norm for most people but I guess I wonder where the line is.
@@SilvanaLTD I think that's the issue a lot of people would have. "You can't call yourself culturally queer because XYZ". There's always going to be people who gatekeep. This is just my personal view, but the way I see it, if you have spent a large portion of your life in queer spaces, and you feel safe and more at home in those spaces rather than heterosexual spaces, then I would say your culturally queer
I think that’s what I don’t understand about the video. It sounds like she assumed Darren Criss just slapped that label on himself because he watched a tv show. If her opinion is that watching RuPaul’s Drag Race does not make someone culturally queer, that makes sense - but what does that have to do with Darren Criss? That wouldn’t be the reason he considers himself culturally queer.
I’m Bi but it would have taken me A LOT longer to figure that out if my (straight/cis) mom hadn’t introduced me to all kinds of people and ways of life. The first “wedding” I ever went to was between two women (saying wedding in quotes because it wasn’t legally binding back then but still a beautiful ceremony). When I asked about one of my mom’s friends, she just told me the truth, “X is a women who was born as a man so she has to fix it” and that was all the explanation I needed. Even though my mom is straight and has never questioned it she never strayed away from people different from her and for that I will always love/admire her.
I just worry a little that people are going to use this to gatekeep and be separatists rather than working to queerify culture (which, to be clear, is not "mandatory viewing of Drag Race" but "forms say parent or guardian instead of mother/father"). Make queerness part of the norm, y'know?
Bonus, saying parent or guardian also normalizes nontraditional (but not necessarily queer) family relationships like fostering, non-parent family members raising children, etc. Multiple inclusion gains with one simple change!
parent/guardian has been used in most of the schools i've gone to in france, england, and ireland. is it something that's debated now in american schools, to use that? and yes absolutely a sprinkling of gay should be the norm, like we were all made to watch heteronormative kak on tv, all the dramas and soaps and advertisements that depicted straight relationships being the norm, when v obviously, it's not and never has been, aside from in the mentally myopic mindset of some.
forms always said parents/guardians when i was in school through the 2000s/2010s in nz/aus. is that not the norm in america? they did also say ‘his/her’ when talking about ‘your child’ though, maybe they’ve moved to the much less clunky ‘they’ now. they taught us about neutral pronouns when teaching us writing enough that baby me wondered why they weren’t writing ‘they’ on the paper, so i really hope so lol.
'Queer' as a term is a rallying cry for all of us that are notably different. It'd be stripping it's meaning to have 'queer' be normal. It'd be giving up something us misfits find deeply comforting: and I'm not so optimistic to think we could ever live in a culture that truly had no misfits. Gay can be normalised, trans can be normalised; but as a deeply queer person it feels antithetical to queerness to want it to become so.
I have a friend who like a token cis straight, and the rest of us are lesbian/ace/gay/enby. He too sweet for this world, I wouldn’t say he’s culturally queer, but he’s at least queerly socialized
This is very interesting! Strangely enough, as someone who grew up in a very conservative environment and only realized I was queer when I was 30, I am queer but often DON’T feel culturally queer! Is this also a thing?? I have so much to learn heh
Me too. I learned I am a Bambi lesbian in my late late 20(like 28) and I consumed some cultural queer products like Heart stopper,I follow queer singers and some allies. But I am not...culturally queer. People also tend to identify me as straight and they pair me with male friends/frenemies. ಠ∀ಠ
I grew up in a very open house hold and lve known Im queer (in some way) for over half my life but I dont feel culturally queer because there wasnt anyone openly queer I could be cultural with😅
@@aaflesje me too. My household reacted well to my coming out they are very open minded 🙏🏻. I am blessed by this, but I miss having queer friends especially of my own age.
I would say so, yeah. I would say there's a significant gap between like queer culture that came about in the 90s and before, and after. Like being queer was no longer a threat to your life, but it wasn't really accepted either
It's not only me who feels this? I have two dads and even though I may not be LGBTQIA+ I still feel really connected to the group and I'm happy to see someone finally talk about it! Thank you❤🧡💛💚💙💜
I’m queer and have known that since like. 14 or so (I’m 22 now) and idk if I’d consider myself culturally queer. I grew up in the suburbs of rural Indiana with no community, closest I ever got was being a tumblr user like, in general. My point is from what I know, Darren is significantly more involved in queer culture as a theater kid from Cali than I could ever be. Man’s earned his place
I think its worth mentioning that someone could still technically be cis and straight and part of the LBGTQ+ if they are intersex. And there has been some discussion about polyamory being added to the mix. I would argue that gender non-conforming cis straight people could be considered culturally queer. It doesn't necessarily mean they are non-binary (which falls under the trans umbrella) or trans for that matter but is more about expression and loving things despite society telling you you shouldn't because of your gender. But i digress. Its a short, you can't fit all that nuance in there.
I'm one of those bisexual women that has dated mostly men, and haven't ever been very immersed in queer culture, so I'm culturally straight. But I'm still queer and I definitely didn't appreciate that one time when a lesbian told me she didn't believe in bisexuality because "that's just vice".😂🤬
I think you are still culturally queer by virtue of being queer. As a bi who has only so far dated men, I usually find myself in circles with a lot of other queers. I'm also demisexual, part of the Ace umbrella, so my dating pool is very small. It's not about who you date but about what you are surrounded by. Also culturally queer, I would argue is a mostly on the internet thing. There is queer culture but at the end of the day, does it matter that we get hyper specific? All that matters is taking the time to understand and learn about your fellow man
honestly thats real, also bi (after having dealt with years of comphet overcorrection, that was something) but ive only ever _in my ENTIRE life_ dated one woman and one man because im fully ace and demiromantic i know thats probably such a stereotypical bi experience, probably doesnt help that my gf was a goth lesbian and my bf a gamer blond im being so frl dawg its over for me but since i just dont form longterm feelings very often it makes me feel like my experiences dont really amount to what most queer people have to go through since i cant say ive never been in love but i cant say im constantly ostracized for who i love either, and i live in the north american bible belt so i feel like we know what kind of expectations there are down here inconveniently im also agender so i have neither the experience of being born in the exact wrong body since there really isnt an ideal body for me to have been born in, nor am i cis, so no matter how you angle it i end up being an outsider it sucks that theres still so many circles where if you arent a binary and allosexual gay or lesbian then you arent considered "queer enough" but im definitely not cishet enough to pass there either :/ tldr i so feel yall, obviously i dont wish typical queer hardships on anyone but it does kinda suck being an outsider in most of my own community
@@Technilogica2019how did you fumble a goth lesbian then had some dude? is that a typical bisexual experience? like y’all casually stumble upon treasure of a lady and then get some dude who happens to be decent?
@@Marlyjade I disagree, being queer doesn't magically provide you a culture you share with all the other hundreds of queer identities. Not to mention this whole thing is centered about what could be ungracefully boiled down to hobbies.
not that she doesn’t always look absolutely fabulous, but oh my gods the hair in this one is so stunning!! very interesting topic that i didn’t know existed and will read about for the next six hours, thanks!!
Feels weird to me though… I feel like a lot of the cishet “culturally queer” people I’ve known get their “queerness” from media or tik tok and rely heavily on stereotypes.. people who are “culturally queer” have told me, a lesbian, that they are in fact more gay than me because they “act the part” I suppose I’ve experienced the same thing from other queer people but it just rubs me even worse when someone who ISN’T queer does it
Anyone who’s tried to undercut your identity definitely isn’t culturally queer, in my book. Yes, there’s some “chronically online” folks that might be insecure about not feeling apart of a community, but there are also a number of cis het people in community with queer people.
I get that. I understand the concept of cultural queerness but it often relies on very common associations and ignores other ways to be engaged in queer culture
THANK YOU, I was trying to form a cohesive thought on the matter but you summed up my thoughts exactly! It's a slippery slope with cishets and queer culture, because let's remind y'all the A in LGBTQIA does NOT stand for "ally," cishets are adjacent to us, they are not us.
@@ssnowstarr4985 At this point it as a concept is almost exclusively used to center identity over hobbies and etc. and just pushes actually queer ppl away if they didn't grow up in the right space and time.
As an Asexual I feel weirdly out of the queer community because I don't have to face my sexuality as much (I'm married to the opposite sex so I never really had to "come out), but I also don't think I am culturally queer because unfortunately I don't know many people from the queer community. It's a bit of a weird place to be, I guess I just see myself as an ally because, while I'm technically a part of the community, I feel like I've been very fortunate and didn't really have too many struggles compared to other members of the community (which I think need a voice a lot more than me).
When ppl definite the queer culture as gay bars, Broadway and drag it's easy to not feel part of it, esp if you live in a rural place outside of English Speaking places.
I think at the end of the day, the people mad about gay trans people (who could also be asexual but you get my point) would also probably find asexual people as an other group just like gay and trans people if they weren't so pissed at the gay and trans people. You're welcome in this community lmao
I don't like the idea of "culturally queer" as a way for people in the straight cisgender community to describe themselves, because if having queer friends and interests that are stereotypically associated with queer people makes you "culturally queer," then by the same argument couldn't the nerdy white guys I knew in college who loved anime and green tea claim to be "culturally Japanese?" While I'm open to other perspectives on this, to me this all feels really appropriative.
I think it would be more accurate to compare it to ethnically Japanese vs. culturally Japanese, and how those two things don't necessarily coincide. Being an appreciator/appropriator of a culture as an outsider isn't the same as being immersed in that culture.
but straight people who have real connections with real queer people, esp if they interact w mostly queer people, i would say are more culturally aligned with queer culture than a white geek who's into anime yiddies lmao
@@auronirahman2837 But how do you define what having a "real connection" with another community that you are not a part of even means? If you are arguing that people are allowed to self identify as "culturally queer" then how exactly is that different from all the nerdy white guys I knew in college who would insist that they only dated Asian women "because they had so many cultural interests in common" and not that they have a racial fetish based on problematic stereotypes? This whole idea of "culturally queer" is part of a long tradition of people from privileged groups insisting that they were a part of, and could thus speak for, marginalized communities. I just saw a youtube video earlier this week about a woman who heard a family story about having a Native American ancestor, and decided based solely on that unverified information that she would dedicate her entire writing career to depicting the plight of white passing indigenous women. Right now culturally queer is used to dubiously explain why Darren Chris can take queer acting roles away from openly gay actors, but it won't take long till it's straight women saying that they can throw around the f-slur because they enjoy watching drag race so much.
@@colinneagle4495I am unsure if you’ve looked into Darren Criss’s upbringing, involvement in theatre and activism, and how his queer peers refer to him, but I do wonder if you haven’t and do look into a bit, would you still see him as being comparable to the white nerd who enjoys green tea example you provided.
@@girlypopgeek I'm sure that Darren Criss is a wonderful person, but there's a big difference between being an ally and having shared interests with a community and claiming to be a part of that community. My favorite food may be French Toast, but that doesn’t make me Joan of Arc. Waltzing in to claim all the fun parts of belonging to a group of people without ever having to deal with the discrimination or feel the weight of a tragic history is a slap in the face to every person who has no choice but to stay for the bad parts because they can't disappear into cisgender or straight privilege the way Darren Criss can.
I just finished writting an essay on Jonathan Larson and man, if there ever was a culturally queer straight cis man, it was him. Like - most people know Rent and that it was one of the first shows that showed gay and trans people, but not enough people know that to support his friends he attended support grups for HIV patients (in the middle of AIDS epidemics) and that one of the songs in Rent is literally based on a quote from a member of this group ("Will I loose my dignity?"). I wish he could see what he did for LGBTQ+ community
Possibly a hot take but I dislike the term "culturally queer". I understand why the term may bring comfrot and security to some people, but it really just feels like a possible dangerous slide into gatekeeping queer identities, history, celebrations, and (of course) culture. I think its best to recognise that queerness often surpasses definitions and labels, and it can be embraced differently by people depending other their race, environment, experiences, and religion. The obsession with trying to simplify can be very damaging, as there are many varities of "Queer". Especially since a lot of what Ive seen from "Culturally Queer" discourse tends to be Westernised.
Very good points. I feel as though a lot of cultural queerness can focus on things that, while being connected to the queer community, are certainly not broadly representative of it
This!! I lowkey hate that term. And I hate how it's tied to hobbies that can be very class and area based. It's stupid how a bunch of straight people are more involved in "queer culture" than queer people who don't do theatre 😂 In the end it just ends up going to prescriptivism because it implies some sort of ubiquitous singular culture and is just another tool to bully queer people with different upbringings and hobbies.
@@crazydragy4233yeah i agree. I didnt Even know it was something. I understand that queer culture exists, historically and sociologically, but i dont understand why « identifying » to queer culture or being culturally queer would be such a debate outside of just helping you understand your life. Also many homosexual friends are very much random people acting like the average cis men i know and dont always feel represented by queer. So what do we do when people feel culturally queer but arent especially queer or have there own kitsh understanding of queer and act like they know better because they know the flags, the terms. Idk it sometimes feels over conceptualised to me. Shouldnt we just stay focus on psycological, physical and material security ?
“Nobody can determine your sense of identity but you!” PER-I-OD!!!! One time one of my friends tried to convince me that I was “technically straight” because I’m aroace (which makes literally no sense like what the freak 😭) and I was so taken aback 😭
Watching a show certainly doesn't count, no 😂 But it is an interesting concept that I expect will be fully embraced. Especially with lgbtqia+ couples having more options for having kids, more people may start feeling this way as this progress continues 😊
The word "ally" is right there if there's any question whether the term "culturally queer" applies for a particular person. The latter is _rather_ more specific and straight cis people should probably be cautious with it.
You can't self-identify as an ally though, and other people id'ing you as one is contentious, so the existence of the word doesn't actually help anyone.
@@PrincessNinja007you absolutely can self identify as an ally. Other people can contest that label if you show yourself to be bigoted, but you’re absolutely allowed to just say “I’m an ally.”
It's yet another case of cishets wanting to feel special in spaces that weren't made to cater to them ngl, it's annoying, like just take being an ally and leave us be
Many queer theory scholars have been embracing broader applicability of the word “queer.” I study ancient literature/history and find this approach to be really helpful in discussing individuals with non-normative relationships to gender and/or sexuality that might not align with a specific identity as it’s understood in the modern era. Even in the modern era, I think a broader understanding of queer can be helpful, especially if it speaks to some aspect of someone’s identity we just don’t have the vocabulary to describe.
While their experiences will still be different, people who spend most of their time in queer spaces and with queer people often have a much deeper understanding of queerness than the average non-LGBTQ+ person. It’s not uncommon for these people to have others assume they’re queer because they are so immersed in queer culture, and that can absolutely come with experiencing homophobia as well. Darren Criss is almost certainly one of these people. He’s been in queer spaces for decades (it’s not just Glee!) and he’s been actively involved in queer culture and media for most of that time. I was definitely surprised when I learned he’s straight lol
Something important to remember is that can also be a term people use while in the closet or beginning to explore things. Trust someone on their own identity, because it can be a messy process and you aren't actually owed the intimate details that might bring someone to that decision. This goes double for queer identity that is done in good faith. Some people have seemingly contradictory labels, because every label we make is going to be an imperfect category. Respecting the identity of the living breathing human claiming it is more important than if that identity fits neatly into a box.
I didn't see it mentioned by you, but aspecs are also queer! Doesn't matter if they're a cis heteroromantic asexual, or a cis heterosexual aromantic - they can still safely say they're queer because they fall outside the allosexual/alloromantic norm in society.
This is weird to me because I'm ace and I've never thought of myself or identified myself as queer. Really I just kind of think of myself as straight, though I have very little interest in anyone unless it's a deep admiration, male or female Idk if that's just me, but I don't feel I should call myself queer
I'm aroace and i don't really feel like part of the straight or queer community. Other aroace people are *my* community. But i still prefer being around queer people, they tend to be more understanding in general lol.
I honestly have always had more gay, bi, and trans friends than straight friends. I think this has been because I lived most of my life being undiagnosed autistic until mid 30s. I still experience constant bullying (always in the workplace). I relate to those who experienced bullying and discrimination for things they cannot (and don’t want to) change. Also, most of us neurodivergent people are into kink and BDSM, which isn’t “queer” per say, but is another sexuality that had to fight to be allowed to exist and have rights by so called “polite” society
What about neurodivergent folks? I mean, we tend to have similiar experiences, such as being in a closet/masking, having to experiment eith self expression and tend to form friendship with queer people and tend to gravitate towards the same political and cultural circles. Not to mention being straight up called gay very often, because other kids couldn’t wrap their head around why I act different.
I’ve been using the term “politically queer” to describe people in my life. For example: a friend of mine is a cis straight man dating a trans woman. He has to involve himself in the narrative in many ways that cis/het men often don’t. And I’m not saying his partner isn’t a woman. I’m saying that, especially now in America, he is intrinsically part of a queer narrative.
to be fair there are cishet queer people (like some a-spec people and intersex individuals) ...but culturely queer is an interesting concept, definetly something to think about
Im technically cis and straight but I'm also on the aro-ace spectrum and often feel like straight allosexual and romantic discourse usually doesn't represent my experience... it's like I'm too straight-passing to be "queer" but I'm not alloromantic or amatonormative enough for the straights 😅
It’s interesting, I just read an essay for one of my classes where this topic was brought up regarding Marcel Duchamp. The critic, Paul B. Franklin, looked at Duchamp’s oeuvre (with a focus on ‘Fountain’) in a queer context. Despite Duchamp being a proclaimed heterosexual, he had a drag persona, used coded language, made art with queer undertones (such as Fountain with the homosexual association of urinals at the time), and when Frank Lloyd Wright confronted him about whether he considered homosexuality to be ‘degenerate’, Duchamp went as far to say, “I believe that the homosexual public has shown far more interest or curiosity for modern art than the heterosexual public… the receptive public is often a homosexual public.” The general consensus was that while Duchamp was not LGBT+, he certainly would have fit the context of ‘culturally queer’. I believe this certainly is the case for many who participate within spaces that push boundaries of what is ‘culturally acceptable’.
“I love queer culture and have embraced aspects of it in my own life!” Is a fine statement. So is “many/most of the important people in my life are queer and so I feel really immersed into the culture!”
I mean yes, but culturally queer describes those things very well. I feel like the only reason people have an issue with it is because people will probably use it wrong
I am very confused about my gender identity. I was born a girl, and I love my feminine body, and I'm not exactly uncomfortable with female pronouns, but something about male pronouns just feels right. When I'm on the internet and someone assumes I'm male and uses male pronouns with me, it feels weird, but a really good weird. Sorry, I know it doesn't relate to the video at all, but this was the only place I felt comfortable to share this, and I kinda needed to talk about this with someone.
Culturally queer as a concept makes sense. Like CODAs with deaf culture. Are they queer? No. But do they have experiences that link them to the queer community, and separate them from the norm of the dominant culture? Absolutely. There’s also dancing the line of queer… like gender nonconformity is often considered a queer behavior, but gender nonconformists might not identify as queer. I think a very queer-informed GNC person would totally be culturally queer, could even just call themself “queer”, even if they’re cishet. I think there’s a lot more to being queer, specifically, than being gay or trans. Being gay or trans makes someone lgbt, it doesn’t make them *queer*. That’s a whole other level of complexity. Also some people are just like… honorary? Hardcore allies and Cis+ people, like… One Topic. He’s totally Cis+ and I’d feel completely comfortable with him in an otherwise trans space. Like, he literally *became* a trans and queer space. Because he was just so anti-transphobe and supportive that a trans safe space grew around him. (I wouldn’t call him culturally queer, he’s just cis+ and a very cool dude)
Trust me, I’ve met some gay people that I feel ashamed to share a queer status with so yeah being lgbt does NOT make you automatically culturally queer
Imo I understand Cross saying that BC he experienced homophobia and being treated like/assumed that he's gay during glee BC audiences blurred the line between actor and character. And Glee was at the centre of attention outside of its viewers since it had big strides of gay rep on tv.
As soon as I heard the firt frase, Will Wood imideately comes to mind. He is very famous as a "gay" or "non-binary" icon because off the way he dresses and his behavior, even though he is straight and cis. He even made a song about it, its "I/Me/Myself" (literaly his most famous music right now); the music talks about the way society limits gender expression acording to gender, and that is realy fucked up. He's my favorite music artist since I discovered him back in november 2024, and I always loved the way he expresses his gender. It gives me an inspiration to embrace my indenty in a way I never felt before. And, honestly, I could talk about how this mans music changed my life for better, but that would take more than one TH-cam comment to write. I think this is a great topic of discussion and it should be brought out more to more people.
I am cis & straight, and married to a Trans Woman. I, for ease, ID as Queer but I'm still growing into that term. I've been welcomed in queer spaces cuz I'm in a Lesbian Marriage and I deal with... a lot of the Trans experience. So, I am cis & straight but def becoming culturally queer. Darren I think is an interesting case. I don't (obviously) know him IRL. I do know he's played a gay man on GLEE and Hedwig and the Angry Inch on Broadway (he was amazing) and his friend circle tends to run extremely queer. He reads as Token Straight of a Queer circle.
I always felt the best part of about being in the queer community is that you can just be *you* - That you exist in this space without judgment. I'd hate to see any gatekeeping around that.
Hard disagree. As a queer person, I feel that the whole point of being LGBTQ+ is being able to define yourself and your own gender, exual and personal identity. Once you put your foot down and start deciding who is or isn't allowed to define who they are, you get into very murky waters. Gate keeping is a terrible look. I don't have to agree with someone to let them still self-determine.
Wow thank you, this is incredible to learn about and really captures my experience. all my closest friends and the creators I most enjoy following are lgbtqia+ 😊 and what has made me feel the most connected to the community, despite being cis het as far as I know, is the underlying shared commitment to being true to ourselves rather than prioritizing others’ expectations or comfort. Thank you!
I hadn’t heard this term but my personal metric for whether I truly belong to a culture is if I can use the words that people in that culture are retaking ownership of (usually slurs) without people suddenly and emphatically telling me that those words are not for me to use. I get where this video is coming from, though, because my family is similar except my spouse and I are cishet allo and our kiddo (12 yo) is queer. So we try very much to expose her to queer culture, which of course puts us right alongside her in queer spaces and learning about queer culture. People are welcoming and inclusive of us in those spaces, but I wouldn’t say my spouse and I feel like we belong to that culture, per se, just that we’re welcome guests.
I have tons of cishet ally friends who absolutely belong in the queer community, even if they don't necessarily have queer identities. Gender non-conforming folk, people with queer family members and loved ones, enthusiastic straight ally boyfriends. I think cishet people are more than allowed to consider themselves part of the queer community as long as they actively participate in and advocate for the community they're claiming.
It feels a bit odd having the opposite experience too. Idk if it's just imposter syndrome or what, but even though I'm bi and trans, I feel largely "culturally straight" sometimes. Maybe I'm just ill-informed on queer culture still 😵💫
Can you be culturally queer if you're cis and straight? Short answer: Estelle Getty. Longer answer: Estelle, Sophia from Golden girls, was a heterosexual woman who identified as being part of the gay community. There are several wonderful interviews and write ups from queer people in her life about her, and how she welcomed them into the community when they themselves had not yet found community. She was, in every way that matters, queer. We're all the time telling the bigots that sexuality is not just about sex, and that the act of sex doesn't define us, and under those same circumstances, yes, I believe someone can be straight and cis and still be queer. Allyship doesn't make you queer, but being immersed in the culture, living the experience of queer people, and being some sort of fabulous psychopomp that ferries the closeted into the wonderous land of queer community can absolutely garner you honorary queerdom
Yes! She was and is a hero! I'm so grateful to live in a time and place where most people are supportive of LGBT+ people, but there are allies who support from the audience and then there are Allies like Estelle who are on stage with us.
You'll find a lot of polyamorous people who would count as culturally queer, even if they're cishet, because of the overlaps between queer bigotry & anti-polyamorous sentiments. Also, a whole bunch of us are queer ourselves, so the cishet polyams will often move in circles with a lot of queer people. The same applies to kink & BDSM spaces, & sometimes things like furry communities too
Yeah the way I view queer is as a general term to encompass identities or lifestyles that don't fit within cishetallo norms, which I think is how it was used originally? Idk. People who aren't necessarily LGBT+ but who don't fit those norms can still expeirence feelings of "otherment" from cishet spaces as well as feelings of kinship with queer spaces. I think that anyone who experiences that can be considered culturally queer.
A good representation of a culturally queer person on TH-cam is Maddie Morphosis from RPDR S14. Hes a straight male who does drag but has fully immersed himself in queer and drag culture in a very respectful way. The absolute epitome of an ally.
I agree with the most of the video, but that last "Darren"... he's very publicly said why he identifies as "culturally queer" feels super weird to make a video like this and not respond to what he actually said...which, no he has a lot more reason for identifying as culturally queer fhan just watching RuPaul's Drag Race.
Yeah it feels kinda weird that she would call him out without actually knowing _why_ he identifies as such, just assuming that he must be one of those cishet people who claims they're 'culturally queer' on a whim. I agree that some straight people do that kind of thing, but that's clearly not the case here. Feels like an uninformed response for the sake of drama.
Yes the disability community operates a lot like the deaf community where there is room for family, friends, interpreters, care workers etc who engage with deaf or disabled people and their culture
@batlover1977 that's so interesting! can you be culturally disabled without having a disability (like CODA's), and is there a big difference between being just medically disabled or also culturally disabled (like little d deaf vs. big D Deaf)? Would love to know more!
Idk I was raised by two non-religious cis straight parents and didn’t really have many friends growing up let alone queer friends so my experience largely feels alien when I do find myself in queer spaces, like I am anomalous. It’s weird as a trans woman, and a half-white, half-asian person bc I want to belong somewhere but often don’t feel like I have any right to do so? I am all these disparate aspects of my identity, and I’m unsure how to recognize them as parts of my whole identity, and being autistic and having masked unknowingly all my life certainly doesn’t help 😅
My stance on the topic is: yes, but it has to be peer reviewed. Just like you can’t give yourself an honorary degree, this label also has to be given by others. I also believe that as soon as someone starts to identify themselves by this label, it shall be stripped from them.
Yeah. Like, the Latine people I know who know my background generally consider me to be an "honorary Latine", though I also don't go around telling people that I'm Latine, because I'm not. It's a title that's been bestowed, not self-selected. (For context, I'm genetically very white but my mom was adopted and her mom is Mexican. My mom was adopted as a teenager so she's not that culturally Latina, but I've had an abuela and an entire Mexican half of my family since I was born. My mom's sister and her son even lived with us when I was growing up, and I consider him to be both my cousin and my brother)
@@exploridori it also kind of reminds me how a Deaf person can give a hearing person a sign name, but a hearing person can't give themselves a sign name. even if they are culturally Deaf, at the end of the day, they're still hearing
I remember Criss talking about this a good decade ago. He's always talked about how he grew up surrounded by queer people in the San Francisco musical theater scene. I haven't kept up with his career for a very long time, idk if he said something weird here, but yeah. He's always said he was practically raised by the very queer musical theater community around him 🤷
Generally I'm chill with this concept, but then there's cis straight girls whose "allyship" and doesn't go further than fetishizing MLM couples and their understanding of queer culture/issues comes exclusively from MLM media made by straight women for straight women, which is extremely inaccurate and just...gross. The same girls who tend to be very shitty to queer women and trans men in addition to not treating cis gay men like human beings, who don't actually give a shit about queer issues and will get pissed if you bring them up. I've seen that genre of straight girl start to go "hahaha I read so much gay smut I'm practically gay so I'm culturally queer!" And it's just...no...
So true! I have a friend who’s straight and cis, but he’s a theatre kid who’s in productions with a lot of queer people, is in the same friend group as me (80% of it is queer) and has had to play female roles before. He’s very immersed into the culture, and understands loads more about gays than most cis male peers. I would consider him culturally queer!
Okay this seriously annoys me. And I’m a queer woman. The pretentious tone and implying that Darren only says this because he watches drag race and couldn’t ACTUALLY be culturally queer like your SON because his parents aren’t gay, is wrong and rude. Do your research. That man is the exact definition of culturally queer that YOU gave and validated as real. Hell, all you have to do is read these comments. An acknowledgment that you mischaracterized him would be great but the lack of response to any of these comments makes me think that won’t be happening.
It's kind of weird that Maddie is considered culturally queer because she engages in drag, but Darren isn't considered culturally queer despite being in theater spaces and bonding with other queer people his entire life. Like, does Darren have to literally do drag for this to be "real" rather than being associated exclusively with his fictional gay character?
This is interesting. I hadn't really seen this yet, but i do feel some people definitely qualify. Natasha Lyonne, for example. I thought she was a lesbian for years. Great ally, and legit Queer Icon.
i feel like people see culture far too much as a thing you inherently have or a thing you’re born into when it’s simply the environment you’re raised in or are living in and the people who surround you. someone whose parents are from europe or africa or south america etc can be indian or japanese and have those cultures embedded into them regardless of race or their parent’s ethnicities. we call for people to be culturally sensitive but then shame people for getting engrossed in the culture that surrounds them and interacting with it. there’s a negative way to interact with culture obviously, and there can be differences in the privileges you have and the other people around you have, but like in this case of maddy morphosis, he isn’t taking from queer culture and marketing it for success while ignoring the queer community, he’s engrossed himself into it and always has been engrossed in it.
Would you consider someone ace as queer? This actually a discussion some of my friends were talking about because someone told my friend who is ace that they arent queer enough because she appears to be in a het relationship regardless of previous dating experience. I pretty strongly dont agree with that but its hard to explain why that feels wrong. It sounds like the same logic people who've told me and others that i can't be pan or bi if im in a het appearing relationship.
That's called acephobia and identical to calling a bi person not queer enough for being in a straight passing relationship. Other queer people can be our biggest haters.
hearing darren screming “im in a rage” and getting sorted into “metrosexual” for a very potter musical moments will forever be ingrained in my brain lol
I am just going to hope that you were kidding. We do not go after people who are telling you who they are with out doing your google searching. Honstly what straight man wants to say they are Culturally Queer? Possably a man who has a reason to say it. It is dangerous. Honestly this is your worst take.
Also: Cishet people CAN be queer. There are several identities that may allow someone to be cis and het AND queer. A good example is the aspec community or the aromantic\asexual spectrum.
Exactly! Intersex is still queer. Also I honestly think that Appalachia could definitely be considered a "queer culture" as in the definition of queer as unusual. Maybe I could just be biased tho.
@@ArcherdaNerdAs a queer Appalachian, I don't know that that's a great usage of the term queer. In modern parlance queer is someone who is a member of the LGBTQ community, and while it CAME from meaning unusual, it doesn't really mean that anymore. It feels unnecessarily muddling to conflate the two. Plus, a lot of Appalachians would not be happy about being called queer, haha. Additionally, I don't know that our culture is that "odd" - it's just not general American culture. Almost everywhere in the US has cultural pockets like that. Everyone's culture is going to seem weird to someone.
oh my god you people are so fucking annoying, words have meaning. "u can be cis het & queer" is like saying "u can be a lesbian who is also attracted to men" no u can't actually and that's ok
This is actually such a helpful term. There is a very distinct queer culture, and I think plenty of straight, cis people will feel more comfortable and have more fun in those environments than in "straight" ones. For example, gay clubs are often far more fun than straight ones if you like music and dancing
I don't like it because it centers a very specific subculture with a label used by millions that have nothing to do with Gay bars or theatre because of how/where they grew up. I understand these things historically were really important and where people banded together but it's a label for a flowing tub of water.
As a bi (but cis) person, my gut reaction was to roll my eyes and assume it was cishets wanting to be special, but the more you explained it, the more it made sense. Thank you for this! Also, I always forget Darren Criss is straight lol
I love this video! Super thought provoking. So many of us in San Francisco drag community adore Maddy and it's really interesting to find a term that describes part of the reason why we feel so comfortable with her. It's also meaningful that many of us didn't grow up "culturally queer" despite being flaming gay and clueless 😂
I’m trying to explain to my mom how ‘queer icons’ aren’t always queer, and how someone can be deeply and personally involved in the queer community while being cishet. I’m going to add “culturally queer” to my vocab.
Not commenting on whether he's "allowed" to claim "culturally queer" - but just for context, as a long time gleek and fan of Darren, he's not just basing that on watching or even playing queer characters, he grew up as a theatre kid in San Francisco in the 90s, he's talked about the gay men who were his role models, and watching waay too many of them die of AIDS. He's also joked that he was as surprised as everyone else when he wound up actually being straight. And John Cameron Mitchell (writer of Hedwig and the Angry Inch) once referred to him as "the queerest straight man I've ever met". He's also just extremely comfortable with being perceived as stereotypically queer. Whether that's a worthy claim, i can't say, just as someone who follows him, just thought I'd pass along thats its not just based on rolls taken or media consumed..
Yeah this clip doesn't sit well with me, I think she's taking the piss out of him
Yeah, I was a fan of him back in the Starkid days and haven't been following him since (for no particular reason, I just didn't enjoy Glee), and I was thinking the same thing
@@KuueenKumi a queer disabled women "taking the piss" at a straight white famous guy on whether or not he's "culturally queer" is fine. Punching up, but more like a tap than a full punch 😅
Yes, it's clear queer culture has defined Darren's personality and experience and I'd even say it shows in how he plays his characters.
Again, I'm not the queer police to say he is or isn't culturally queer, but he's definitely not a stereotypical cishet man that wants to claim culturally queer because his closest coworker is gay either
This
My friend group calls people who have deeply explored their gender and sexuality and still ended up straight/heterosexual, cis+ and straight but not narrow :)
I used to call those people “super straight” but then… the transphobes started calling themselves that … Idk, maybe I can call them “extra straight” or sth
That would describe 2 of my teenage children. Actually I don't think they've completely settled on a sexuality , though one says straight and the other says ace, that changes regularly. Both have considered themselves trans at some point but now cis, and both have dated same sex partners (though not same gender).
Cis+ here it's so real like a bonus level of gender
As a (probably) straight ace I like the term non-Euclidean. Not quite straight- but close enough to seem like it under the right conditions.
@@Anonyomus_commenterOne of my partners knows _way_ more about maths than I, and it kinda turns me on when she gets excited about it. Neither of us is straight nor really ace, but I nevertheless approve of your notion very strongly. 🙂
I've met two cis het men that I labeled "culturally gay" in my own head back in the 1990s and 2000s. One had a gay older brother and spent his teen years surrounded by his brother's friends. The other had been a theater major and had similarly socialized mostly with gay men. Both had unconsciously taken on some physical behaviors that are queer coded--enough that they were sometimes read as gay men by gay men.
In my friend group we call them honorary gays/lesbians. The time they spent with us has to be recognized somehow, so honorary queer it is.
Love this! And honestly love the brief mention she made of the OPPOSITE, of queer folks who *aren't* culturally queer. They can be sooo frustrating imo, they're often the queers who like deny other queers?? And will like, argue against queer rights, and they'll be sooo pick me about it like oh I'm not like those annoying queers I'm a cool queer and they can be just as toxic as a straight up homophobe. Like it can be so jarring to talk to a fellow queer and realize they're like. Not on your side so to speak? Like, sometimes they're not even on their own side adjft.
@@chickenanon Kalvin and Blair are my go to examples of this
I’m going to tell my dad you were talking about him behind his back 🤣
@@chickenanon
It's hard to define because most queer people weren't raised with a queer culture either. Especially people who came out later can be very obviously queer but really not understand a lot of culture they're supposedly part of. There can be a lot of imposter syndrome in that situation.
We weren’t raised with a queer culture, but many of us still grew up with decent amounts of time in one. I was in theater and in a social context among friends in high school where being queer-particularly bi, but queer in general-was so the norm that one of our friends genuinely had to come out as straight
That particular circumstance is unusual but a lot of kids who did theater and girls who played softball and stuff, let alone joined a GSA or something, will grow up with a certain amount of that from the other kids they grew up with, even if it’s not facilitated by adults
Very true. I think people whose identities face scrutiny over whether they’re “queer enough” (ie bisexuals, asexuals, trans people who don’t medically transition, etc) can experience something similar too.
Ultimately it’s important to remember that you are still queer regardless of how you relate to the larger community. The culture doesn’t get to define your identity, that’s up to you and only you.
@@canislupus4655 In my case I've only been out as a trans woman for a couple years so while I am probably the most unavoidably visibly queer person I know even among trans people, I often feel like I know the culture the least. How I look is an honest expression of who I am but when I hear language I don't understand or don't know what people are talking about I feel like I'm faking.
imposter syndrome and fear of being rejected here since i m a late bloomer ... @@corvacopia
@@SanityVideo I definitely feel the same way sometimes. I’ve never been great at keeping up with the latest trends and haven’t really lived in very queer areas. I’ve also been pushed out of queer spaces before for people not thinking I’m “queer enough.” I kind of had to decide for myself, and with the support from people close to me, that I knew I was queer and that was enough.
It’s hard, of course, and I still doubt myself, but I think I can live with that.
“I’m not the queer police but I’m still gonna have an opinion” 10/10 I wish more discourse was like this. Like, I’m not gonna stop someone from living their life but I do have thoughts about its implications that I wanna yap about.
I agree, but I also think having an opinion isn’t always necessary. The video she implies that her opinion is that Darren Criss may not be culturally queer because watching RuPaul’s drag race doesn’t make someone culturally queer. That only makes sense if that’s the reason he considers himself culturally queer - and it isn’t.
@@lindsayswarthout9227Rachel Dolezal is culturally black.
@@Newton-Reuther If that’s your opinion, it’s an interesting one to share publicly.
@@lindsayswarthout9227 "isnt necessary" doesnt make sense to me. opinions arent controlled, they just happen as you move through life and react to the world around you. they just sort of happen, its the sharing and action (aka "queer police") that matters.
@@MediecreGoddess if you want to share it and sharing it is part of being the queer police then you are being the queer police. If you consider it to be both saring and action then you aren't queer police unless you phisically restrain someone, which is weird. Idk lol those boundaries seem kind of weird.
This just feels like a mental barrier such as "no offense". It may soften it a bit, but it's still an opinion she is divulging knowingly. Of course most creators don't want to generate a cult following and expect their viewers to consider their words critically anyway. Saying that outright doesn't make it not a standard she is setting. Same thing happens with you or anybody. All "standards" you set are a display of your judgements or opinions that then form the structure of your morality. saying your judgements don't set a standard is not gonna make that true. It just makes you feel better about it. Not going after people is the minimum for an adult. That would make you like a cop. We each are allowed our judgements but they're still judgements and they do not come and go like whispers without any relationship to anything else in our mind. The approach of "I'm not gonna judge but yes I will actually" will always be less genuine than variations such as "I am judging but you can live your life anyway cause we all judge things and sometimes it's ok to be alive". Like, objectively speaking opinions are articulated judgements and judgements set out morals or adjust to them. If you want people to not feel attacked just say that you are not attacking them. Don't overdo it by saying you are not doing the whole activity you are doing. That's how you avoid being "the queer police". By not lying like the police do.
As others have mentioned, Darren grew up in the San Francisco theatre community. He attended University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, a very liberal, diverse, and international city. His breakout role was a high profile gay teenager in Glee and his first major acting award was for a gay role in The Assassination of Gianni Versace. He owns an LA piano bar called Tramp Stamp Granny's modeled after Marie's Crisis in NYC. He's been on Broadway for a decade including the trans lead in Hedwig and hosts an annual Broadway concert called Elsie Fest. He & his wife married in New Orleans in a big three day music party. His mother is Filipina, and he's proud of his Asian heritage. He uses fashion intentionally. He's been a loyal and outspoken LGBTQ+ ally. Yes, Darren is culturally queer.
thanks for pointing out he's half filipino! I didn't know :o
He seems so awesome!!
👏👏
Ah, that's cool that he's half Filipino! I was wondering if he might be part Asian when I saw him in Glee, but that's something new I learned today!
I dont agree with that. He is an ally. It should stop at that imo.
I was at the panel where he said that and this quote has been taken out of context over and over again. He was responding to a kind of rude question about whether it was difficult for him to play a gay character in Glee and he said that he’d been raised around and basically by queer people and watched many of them die during the AIDS crisis. He said for him it wasn’t abnormal and it felt easy to play a queer character because he’s always been surrounded by queer culture. He wasn’t trying to claim anything that wasn’t his.
In the 80s/90s there were straight guys that hung out in gay circles, I don't think anyone questioned it. There was an older gay guy, he was an architect/furniture designer, and he had a straight guy that was constant company, perhaps because he was a wealth of knowledge, i really don't know, non-issue then, I think people would be very gossip-y now. i really don't understand why people are so up in everyone else's business, seems like it would be tiring.
Yeah i hate the internet
I honestly did not question it very much when Darren Criss said that he was culturally queer because it makes sense, not even just because of his roles in glee and other projects where he played a gay man. He actively spoke on queer identity and what it meant for the public to see and accept on their screens and lives. He is very loving and supporting of the queer community and I think it is something to be said to the fact that everyone was completely flabbergasted when they found out that he was in fact a straight man. He moved through the theatre world, a historically very queer space and was around queerness often, seeing many of his own friends go through their identity journey and some even passing from AIDs in that time. He himself even questioned whether or not he was queer and was shocked that he was straight in his sexuality because he exhibited many of the stereotypical identifiers that are signed to being queer. He has been said by many queer people that he use the queerest straight person they’ve ever ever met. He is an advert advocate for the community and is a long time supporter of the Trevor Project. He has gone out to be a performer at multiple charity events for the LGBTQ community. So everyone being up in arms about him, saying that he identifies as culturally queer doesn’t make sense, when in reality it suits him very well because that is the space that he has moved in and spoken up for for most of his life.
A recent issue is lesbian content creators have been using the terms culturally queer/culturally straight as a way of othering bisexual women who they've decided aren't culturally queer enough.
People really need bigger problems in their life
Not more terms for the age old biphobia.
This unfortunately has been a thing for so many years, they just keep calling it different things.
@@bobthebuilderday6leader sadly yes
@@MexiPika123 I know. It's exhausting.
I'm not deaf, but (as I understand it) some will talk about being culturally deaf; people who are immersed in deaf culture, speak in sign, move in deaf circles, etc. versus people who merely happen to be deaf; like if my grandfather loses his hearing, and has no knowledge or interest in sign, no connection to deaf culture, etc. There are also CODAs, or Children Of Deaf Adults, who can hear, but are also immersed in deaf culture from a young age. I can certainly see someone being a COQA, or maybe COGA, as being a signifier of being a part of queer culture.
I've been severely hearing impaired since 1.5 years old but not at all culturally deaf. I did do a summer camp at a deaf school as a kid & did meet some great people, but just didn't feel like that was where I belonged. Being immersed in the "regular hearing world" turned out to be the best thing for me, but wouldn't necessarily be the best for everyone.
Deaf with a capital D refers to Deaf culture. I'm personally hoh and identify as Deaf, though for me it's less because I've had a lot of access to Deaf spaces and sign language---I haven't---and more because of how my identity separates me from hearing norms, and I want to seek out more Deaf spaces.
Eh you gotta be careful with this one. I'm an ASL interpreter so I'm pretty immersed in Deaf culture but I wouldn't call myself culturally Deaf, just well versed in it. CODAs are often culturally Deaf if their parents are, but for any other hearing person I'd be aware the Deaf community is pretty protective over its culture and identity (at least in America, idk about other countries)
@@kaitlynmarie5545THAT, though I'd say that's similar to queer culture. You're welcome at parties/meet ups, maybe even participate, as long as you play by our rules. But you're never one of us ie culturally queer/Deaf.
Similarily there are experiences cis straight/hearing can never know, but are core experiences.
@@thisorthat629 wow, you summed up my feelings about “culturally queer” so neatly
Implying that Darren Criss says he’s culturally queer simply for watching drag race is very misleading. Love your content, but let’s not do that.
I feel like this is an incredibly online conversation- and I don't mean that to play the discussion down. (SORRY FOR THE LENGTH I HAVE THOUGHTS)
At every queer space or event or even obviously queer group of people I have been to, nobody is asked for the details of their specific identity. People assume, by your looks and your pronouns obviously, and they can be right or wrong, but that rarely plays into conversation of any kind. That immensely helps people who feel adjacent to the space but can't really pinpoint how or why (and they might never do and nobody cares) as well as people who just feel comfortable in this culture. If you are a safe person to be around you are largely included in queer spaces.
I can however understand the conversation happening on a very deeply personal level. I have had friends perplexed because they felt somehow queer even if they were straight. And there is obviously not a clear cut answer to this, and everyone knows themselves better. But imo, if you feel in some way welcomed and helped and you fit in queer spaces and you wanna call yourself queer- you are queer. The biggots walking down the street don't care about how you Identify. They are going to harass you for the way you are dressed and behave, and the way the people around you do so too.
Yes, I agree. And we have to remember that many of us started out as "really good allies" 😅 who, over time, learned more about ourselves and came out.
Oh god @@celisewillis the "I'm just a really good ally who cares deeply" stage. That was some wonderful mental gymnastics I pulled 😂
i love this comment so deeply! i definitely feel like someone who feels “adjacent to the space but can’t pinpoint how or why”
This! And hell! A lot of folks I know eventually realized they are bi or trans this way! Including myself lol.
Why can I relate to men while still being super attached to being a woman? Maybe because I land in the middle somewhere
just want to add: if you are cis/het, DO NOT USE THE WORD QUEER. it is a slur.
My husband is not only married to me (a no binary person) and surrounded by queer friends that I've brought to the table; he also had lots of queer friends before meeting me and is constantly having to come out as "straight" because he reads as queer. I would say that counts!
We have the same husband 😂
my husband is also like this!
the Shane Topp husband
If you date a non-binary person doesn't that make you at least bi? Like oopsi bi. I would find it hurtful if my husband said he was straight because that feels like erasing my gender.
I also know a lesbian whose partner came out as a trans man and they stayed together, so it's kinda an 'oopsy bi'. Like they are bi for you. 🤷 Idk.
@@nicomoist5336 Shayne cuffing his jeans with his she/they wife and watching other women propose to her for bits cheering her on. We love supportive straight husbands to queer wives and straight wives supportive of queer husbands and every mix of identity
I think his helps me explain my own situation - I’m aroace, but I don’t feel connected to the queer community in general, so I guess I can now explain it as “queer but not culturally queer”.
I had to look up 'aroace'-thanks for enlightening me. I see you, my friend, and would welcome you to the queer circles I mix in, and hope you'd enjoy the culture. But if not, no drama, and I'll still think about you whenever I wave a Pride flag… even though at least one of the aroace colours turns out still to be missing…
I mean, I see queer people (mostly on the internet) tell us that we don't count as queer pretty regularly, so. 🤷🏻♀️
While I'm aroace and I *do* feel connected, it's mostly with other folks whose queerness is gatekept (bi and pan people, non-binary folks) or who are otherwise *also* rejected by the queer police. Which turns out to be most of the rest of the acronym... funny that.
Same, I’ve had mostly queer friends so I’m very familiar with the culture, but as an aroace who’s also not into clubbing or bars, there’s really not much for me. Most events include alcohol, lewd jokes or performances and are just generally really loud with no chill. Which is fine and fun once a year, but gosh I’d really love an ace-club. ’Cos I do like to dance every once in a while, just the presence of alcohol, assumed sexual interest and bad music means there’s no club to go to. Lgbtqia+ parties at least often have better music and more welcoming atmosphere. And no, where I live there’s no alcohol-free clubs, if there were I’d try them out for sure.
@kailovi that seems so good, hard to find something that's got all of those criteria :
I'm the same.
He felt the need to "come out" as straight to his family and friends; that alone should meet the criteria for being culturally queer.
I would think it would be tiring to be up in everyone else's business.
honestly the fact that most people get surprised when they find out he’s straight (and the fact he embodies this, respects this, and uses this as a way to be an ally) is enough for me to accept him being culturally queer, but maybe i’m not as concerned w gatekeeping random labels like this
While I support this idea, I also feel like it should also just be "normal" to have some queerness in a plain ole culturally western house.
I agree . I grew up in Berkeley , and then I went to a very progressive art school for college , I knew it wasn’t the status quo experience, just always thought it was a better way to move through life , surrounded by creative and interesting people. It’s sad that people are so bigoted and biased they can’t evolve their understanding of gender expression.
it definitely is. i don’t think that applies to darren criss tho since it goes a little deeper for him than that.
I want to point out that queer culture was formed out of our shared history in a heteronormative society. The pressure queer people face to be "just normal" reads as an attempt to deny our unique experiences as queer people and undermine our solidarity.
But that's kind of exactly what she's saying, there's a difference between experiencing queerness through things like dragrace or just casual experiences like that and actually being intertwined with the culture itself
I don’t know how I feel about the label “culturally queer” other than I probably wouldn’t openly define myself as such if I wasn’t actually queer, but as a Darren fan who is queer I completely understand what he meant by it. He grew up as a theatre kid in a fairly diverse city, idolising queer adults he saw around him, many of whom he later watched die of AIDS. He also if I remember correctly, faced oodles of homophobia when he played Blaine in Glee, because people saw him as gay then. His diverse upbringing shaped a lot of his identity and most likely influenced how comfortable he is with having a more femme or fluid gender expression.
Wasn’t expecting lowkey Darren Criss dig here today lol. I love the way you usually do your research on topics, so I’d recommend taking another look into this one.
It's not really a dig though? She literally explains why it makes sense, just that it's important to make sure we understand it's proper use so it doesn't get thrown around willy nilly
Yeah she definitely didn’t do her research on this one 😭
Why does this give me "you can't sit with us." Vibes.
Same! I’m bi and it took so long to “figure out” that I was bi (even though I’m very obviously bi), partially because of stuff like this that made me feel unwelcome in the lgbt community. Despite attending GSA for 2 years of high school and the majority of my friends being lgbt, I haven’t felt fully welcome in the lgbt community until this year (I’m 21). If I was a creator I definitely wouldn’t use my platform like this.
I'm not fully aware of Darren Criss's history but I know he was quite the theater kid long before Glee. I'd argue being immersed in theater would make someone at least a bit culturally queer
Yeah, I assumed he was either a gay man or theater kid. Sometimes theater kids end up seeming "queer coded" for lack of a better word, though I don't think that term can actually be applied to real life people lol
@shirleymarie2288 Only reason I knew he wasn't gay was because during the Glee craze I had a bit of a crush on him and looked it up. I was very disappointed when I learned the truth lol
Iirc the main reason he said that in that interview was because he grew up in San Francisco which is very connected to queer culture. I'm not sure how I feel about this but I do sorta get where he's coming from if queer culture was very normalized around him since that is really not the norm for most people but I guess I wonder where the line is.
@@SilvanaLTD I think that's the issue a lot of people would have. "You can't call yourself culturally queer because XYZ". There's always going to be people who gatekeep. This is just my personal view, but the way I see it, if you have spent a large portion of your life in queer spaces, and you feel safe and more at home in those spaces rather than heterosexual spaces, then I would say your culturally queer
I think that’s what I don’t understand about the video. It sounds like she assumed Darren Criss just slapped that label on himself because he watched a tv show. If her opinion is that watching RuPaul’s Drag Race does not make someone culturally queer, that makes sense - but what does that have to do with Darren Criss? That wouldn’t be the reason he considers himself culturally queer.
oh darren is absolutely culturally queer and I love him for that
I’m Bi but it would have taken me A LOT longer to figure that out if my (straight/cis) mom hadn’t introduced me to all kinds of people and ways of life. The first “wedding” I ever went to was between two women (saying wedding in quotes because it wasn’t legally binding back then but still a beautiful ceremony). When I asked about one of my mom’s friends, she just told me the truth, “X is a women who was born as a man so she has to fix it” and that was all the explanation I needed. Even though my mom is straight and has never questioned it she never strayed away from people different from her and for that I will always love/admire her.
I just worry a little that people are going to use this to gatekeep and be separatists rather than working to queerify culture (which, to be clear, is not "mandatory viewing of Drag Race" but "forms say parent or guardian instead of mother/father"). Make queerness part of the norm, y'know?
Bonus, saying parent or guardian also normalizes nontraditional (but not necessarily queer) family relationships like fostering, non-parent family members raising children, etc. Multiple inclusion gains with one simple change!
parent/guardian has been used in most of the schools i've gone to in france, england, and ireland.
is it something that's debated now in american schools, to use that?
and yes absolutely a sprinkling of gay should be the norm, like we were all made to watch heteronormative kak on tv, all the dramas and soaps and advertisements that depicted straight relationships being the norm, when v obviously, it's not and never has been, aside from in the mentally myopic mindset of some.
Exactly
forms always said parents/guardians when i was in school through the 2000s/2010s in nz/aus. is that not the norm in america? they did also say ‘his/her’ when talking about ‘your child’ though, maybe they’ve moved to the much less clunky ‘they’ now. they taught us about neutral pronouns when teaching us writing enough that baby me wondered why they weren’t writing ‘they’ on the paper, so i really hope so lol.
'Queer' as a term is a rallying cry for all of us that are notably different. It'd be stripping it's meaning to have 'queer' be normal. It'd be giving up something us misfits find deeply comforting: and I'm not so optimistic to think we could ever live in a culture that truly had no misfits.
Gay can be normalised, trans can be normalised; but as a deeply queer person it feels antithetical to queerness to want it to become so.
I have a friend who like a token cis straight, and the rest of us are lesbian/ace/gay/enby. He too sweet for this world, I wouldn’t say he’s culturally queer, but he’s at least queerly socialized
Darrin Criss is a queer icon regardless of his sexuality.
You know, When we in da clerb, we all fam
Dunno how you're gonna find a better example of culturally queer - if we wanna decide that's a thing - than a theatre kid from San Francisco.
This is very interesting! Strangely enough, as someone who grew up in a very conservative environment and only realized I was queer when I was 30, I am queer but often DON’T feel culturally queer! Is this also a thing?? I have so much to learn heh
Honestly same
Me too. I learned I am a Bambi lesbian in my late late 20(like 28) and I consumed some cultural queer products like Heart stopper,I follow queer singers and some allies. But I am not...culturally queer. People also tend to identify me as straight and they pair me with male friends/frenemies. ಠ∀ಠ
I grew up in a very open house hold and lve known Im queer (in some way) for over half my life but I dont feel culturally queer because there wasnt anyone openly queer I could be cultural with😅
@@aaflesje me too. My household reacted well to my coming out they are very open minded 🙏🏻. I am blessed by this, but I miss having queer friends especially of my own age.
I would say so, yeah. I would say there's a significant gap between like queer culture that came about in the 90s and before, and after. Like being queer was no longer a threat to your life, but it wasn't really accepted either
It's not only me who feels this? I have two dads and even though I may not be LGBTQIA+ I still feel really connected to the group and I'm happy to see someone finally talk about it! Thank you❤🧡💛💚💙💜
I’m queer and have known that since like. 14 or so (I’m 22 now) and idk if I’d consider myself culturally queer. I grew up in the suburbs of rural Indiana with no community, closest I ever got was being a tumblr user like, in general.
My point is from what I know, Darren is significantly more involved in queer culture as a theater kid from Cali than I could ever be. Man’s earned his place
I think its worth mentioning that someone could still technically be cis and straight and part of the LBGTQ+ if they are intersex. And there has been some discussion about polyamory being added to the mix. I would argue that gender non-conforming cis straight people could be considered culturally queer. It doesn't necessarily mean they are non-binary (which falls under the trans umbrella) or trans for that matter but is more about expression and loving things despite society telling you you shouldn't because of your gender. But i digress. Its a short, you can't fit all that nuance in there.
Yeah, and aroacespec people also can be cishet and still queer
and also aro and ace people are queer and can be cishet
I'm one of those bisexual women that has dated mostly men, and haven't ever been very immersed in queer culture, so I'm culturally straight. But I'm still queer and I definitely didn't appreciate that one time when a lesbian told me she didn't believe in bisexuality because "that's just vice".😂🤬
I think you are still culturally queer by virtue of being queer. As a bi who has only so far dated men, I usually find myself in circles with a lot of other queers. I'm also demisexual, part of the Ace umbrella, so my dating pool is very small. It's not about who you date but about what you are surrounded by.
Also culturally queer, I would argue is a mostly on the internet thing. There is queer culture but at the end of the day, does it matter that we get hyper specific? All that matters is taking the time to understand and learn about your fellow man
@Marlyjade Nice to find a fellow demi!!
honestly thats real, also bi (after having dealt with years of comphet overcorrection, that was something) but ive only ever _in my ENTIRE life_ dated one woman and one man because im fully ace and demiromantic
i know thats probably such a stereotypical bi experience, probably doesnt help that my gf was a goth lesbian and my bf a gamer blond im being so frl dawg its over for me
but since i just dont form longterm feelings very often it makes me feel like my experiences dont really amount to what most queer people have to go through since i cant say ive never been in love but i cant say im constantly ostracized for who i love either, and i live in the north american bible belt so i feel like we know what kind of expectations there are down here
inconveniently im also agender so i have neither the experience of being born in the exact wrong body since there really isnt an ideal body for me to have been born in, nor am i cis, so no matter how you angle it i end up being an outsider
it sucks that theres still so many circles where if you arent a binary and allosexual gay or lesbian then you arent considered "queer enough" but im definitely not cishet enough to pass there either :/
tldr i so feel yall, obviously i dont wish typical queer hardships on anyone but it does kinda suck being an outsider in most of my own community
@@Technilogica2019how did you fumble a goth lesbian then had some dude? is that a typical bisexual experience? like y’all casually stumble upon treasure of a lady and then get some dude who happens to be decent?
@@Marlyjade I disagree, being queer doesn't magically provide you a culture you share with all the other hundreds of queer identities. Not to mention this whole thing is centered about what could be ungracefully boiled down to hobbies.
not that she doesn’t always look absolutely fabulous, but oh my gods the hair in this one is so stunning!! very interesting topic that i didn’t know existed and will read about for the next six hours, thanks!!
Feels weird to me though… I feel like a lot of the cishet “culturally queer” people I’ve known get their “queerness” from media or tik tok and rely heavily on stereotypes.. people who are “culturally queer” have told me, a lesbian, that they are in fact more gay than me because they “act the part”
I suppose I’ve experienced the same thing from other queer people but it just rubs me even worse when someone who ISN’T queer does it
Anyone who’s tried to undercut your identity definitely isn’t culturally queer, in my book. Yes, there’s some “chronically online” folks that might be insecure about not feeling apart of a community, but there are also a number of cis het people in community with queer people.
I get that. I understand the concept of cultural queerness but it often relies on very common associations and ignores other ways to be engaged in queer culture
THANK YOU, I was trying to form a cohesive thought on the matter but you summed up my thoughts exactly! It's a slippery slope with cishets and queer culture, because let's remind y'all the A in LGBTQIA does NOT stand for "ally," cishets are adjacent to us, they are not us.
@@ssnowstarr4985 At this point it as a concept is almost exclusively used to center identity over hobbies and etc. and just pushes actually queer ppl away if they didn't grow up in the right space and time.
That last "Darren" was PERSONAL
FR 🤣🤣🤣
As an Asexual I feel weirdly out of the queer community because I don't have to face my sexuality as much (I'm married to the opposite sex so I never really had to "come out), but I also don't think I am culturally queer because unfortunately I don't know many people from the queer community.
It's a bit of a weird place to be, I guess I just see myself as an ally because, while I'm technically a part of the community, I feel like I've been very fortunate and didn't really have too many struggles compared to other members of the community (which I think need a voice a lot more than me).
You’re still a valid part of the community and being ace doesn’t mean you don’t belong or that your voice is less important :)
When ppl definite the queer culture as gay bars, Broadway and drag it's easy to not feel part of it, esp if you live in a rural place outside of English Speaking places.
I think at the end of the day, the people mad about gay trans people (who could also be asexual but you get my point) would also probably find asexual people as an other group just like gay and trans people if they weren't so pissed at the gay and trans people. You're welcome in this community lmao
I don't like the idea of "culturally queer" as a way for people in the straight cisgender community to describe themselves, because if having queer friends and interests that are stereotypically associated with queer people makes you "culturally queer," then by the same argument couldn't the nerdy white guys I knew in college who loved anime and green tea claim to be "culturally Japanese?" While I'm open to other perspectives on this, to me this all feels really appropriative.
I think it would be more accurate to compare it to ethnically Japanese vs. culturally Japanese, and how those two things don't necessarily coincide.
Being an appreciator/appropriator of a culture as an outsider isn't the same as being immersed in that culture.
but straight people who have real connections with real queer people, esp if they interact w mostly queer people, i would say are more culturally aligned with queer culture than a white geek who's into anime yiddies lmao
@@auronirahman2837 But how do you define what having a "real connection" with another community that you are not a part of even means? If you are arguing that people are allowed to self identify as "culturally queer" then how exactly is that different from all the nerdy white guys I knew in college who would insist that they only dated Asian women "because they had so many cultural interests in common" and not that they have a racial fetish based on problematic stereotypes? This whole idea of "culturally queer" is part of a long tradition of people from privileged groups insisting that they were a part of, and could thus speak for, marginalized communities. I just saw a youtube video earlier this week about a woman who heard a family story about having a Native American ancestor, and decided based solely on that unverified information that she would dedicate her entire writing career to depicting the plight of white passing indigenous women. Right now culturally queer is used to dubiously explain why Darren Chris can take queer acting roles away from openly gay actors, but it won't take long till it's straight women saying that they can throw around the f-slur because they enjoy watching drag race so much.
@@colinneagle4495I am unsure if you’ve looked into Darren Criss’s upbringing, involvement in theatre and activism, and how his queer peers refer to him, but I do wonder if you haven’t and do look into a bit, would you still see him as being comparable to the white nerd who enjoys green tea example you provided.
@@girlypopgeek I'm sure that Darren Criss is a wonderful person, but there's a big difference between being an ally and having shared interests with a community and claiming to be a part of that community. My favorite food may be French Toast, but that doesn’t make me Joan of Arc. Waltzing in to claim all the fun parts of belonging to a group of people without ever having to deal with the discrimination or feel the weight of a tragic history is a slap in the face to every person who has no choice but to stay for the bad parts because they can't disappear into cisgender or straight privilege the way Darren Criss can.
Excuse me because this is like, super unrelated, but your hair is PERFECT. It's giving queer Rita Hayworth, and I'm here for it.
I just finished writting an essay on Jonathan Larson and man, if there ever was a culturally queer straight cis man, it was him. Like - most people know Rent and that it was one of the first shows that showed gay and trans people, but not enough people know that to support his friends he attended support grups for HIV patients (in the middle of AIDS epidemics) and that one of the songs in Rent is literally based on a quote from a member of this group ("Will I loose my dignity?"). I wish he could see what he did for LGBTQ+ community
Possibly a hot take but I dislike the term "culturally queer". I understand why the term may bring comfrot and security to some people, but it really just feels like a possible dangerous slide into gatekeeping queer identities, history, celebrations, and (of course) culture.
I think its best to recognise that queerness often surpasses definitions and labels, and it can be embraced differently by people depending other their race, environment, experiences, and religion. The obsession with trying to simplify can be very damaging, as there are many varities of "Queer". Especially since a lot of what Ive seen from "Culturally Queer" discourse tends to be Westernised.
You articulated the semi formed thoughts I had on this so well.
Very good points. I feel as though a lot of cultural queerness can focus on things that, while being connected to the queer community, are certainly not broadly representative of it
This!! I lowkey hate that term. And I hate how it's tied to hobbies that can be very class and area based. It's stupid how a bunch of straight people are more involved in "queer culture" than queer people who don't do theatre 😂
In the end it just ends up going to prescriptivism because it implies some sort of ubiquitous singular culture and is just another tool to bully queer people with different upbringings and hobbies.
@@crazydragy4233yeah i agree. I didnt Even know it was something. I understand that queer culture exists, historically and sociologically, but i dont understand why « identifying » to queer culture or being culturally queer would be such a debate outside of just helping you understand your life. Also many homosexual friends are very much random people acting like the average cis men i know and dont always feel represented by queer. So what do we do when people feel culturally queer but arent especially queer or have there own kitsh understanding of queer and act like they know better because they know the flags, the terms. Idk it sometimes feels over conceptualised to me. Shouldnt we just stay focus on psycological, physical and material security ?
“Nobody can determine your sense of identity but you!” PER-I-OD!!!! One time one of my friends tried to convince me that I was “technically straight” because I’m aroace (which makes literally no sense like what the freak 😭) and I was so taken aback 😭
Watching a show certainly doesn't count, no 😂 But it is an interesting concept that I expect will be fully embraced. Especially with lgbtqia+ couples having more options for having kids, more people may start feeling this way as this progress continues 😊
The word "ally" is right there if there's any question whether the term "culturally queer" applies for a particular person. The latter is _rather_ more specific and straight cis people should probably be cautious with it.
You can't self-identify as an ally though, and other people id'ing you as one is contentious, so the existence of the word doesn't actually help anyone.
@@PrincessNinja007you absolutely can self identify as an ally. Other people can contest that label if you show yourself to be bigoted, but you’re absolutely allowed to just say “I’m an ally.”
I think "culturally queer" is a stupid gatekeepy label, given how diverse the queer community is, and how varied all of our experiences are
It's yet another case of cishets wanting to feel special in spaces that weren't made to cater to them ngl, it's annoying, like just take being an ally and leave us be
Many queer theory scholars have been embracing broader applicability of the word “queer.” I study ancient literature/history and find this approach to be really helpful in discussing individuals with non-normative relationships to gender and/or sexuality that might not align with a specific identity as it’s understood in the modern era. Even in the modern era, I think a broader understanding of queer can be helpful, especially if it speaks to some aspect of someone’s identity we just don’t have the vocabulary to describe.
While their experiences will still be different, people who spend most of their time in queer spaces and with queer people often have a much deeper understanding of queerness than the average non-LGBTQ+ person. It’s not uncommon for these people to have others assume they’re queer because they are so immersed in queer culture, and that can absolutely come with experiencing homophobia as well. Darren Criss is almost certainly one of these people. He’s been in queer spaces for decades (it’s not just Glee!) and he’s been actively involved in queer culture and media for most of that time. I was definitely surprised when I learned he’s straight lol
Something important to remember is that can also be a term people use while in the closet or beginning to explore things. Trust someone on their own identity, because it can be a messy process and you aren't actually owed the intimate details that might bring someone to that decision.
This goes double for queer identity that is done in good faith. Some people have seemingly contradictory labels, because every label we make is going to be an imperfect category. Respecting the identity of the living breathing human claiming it is more important than if that identity fits neatly into a box.
I didn't see it mentioned by you, but aspecs are also queer!
Doesn't matter if they're a cis heteroromantic asexual, or a cis heterosexual aromantic - they can still safely say they're queer because they fall outside the allosexual/alloromantic norm in society.
This is weird to me because I'm ace and I've never thought of myself or identified myself as queer. Really I just kind of think of myself as straight, though I have very little interest in anyone unless it's a deep admiration, male or female
Idk if that's just me, but I don't feel I should call myself queer
@tsundereyoongi It's fine if you don't feel with the label! But others may feel differently, like I'm an ace and also consider myself queer.
@@makothetakoSame, thanks for mentioning this 💜
I'm aroace and i don't really feel like part of the straight or queer community. Other aroace people are *my* community. But i still prefer being around queer people, they tend to be more understanding in general lol.
Jessica never said we're not queer, we fall under the LGBTQ2 umbrella. I'm very queer, but part of that is being ace.
Me: Oh no, am I appropriating queer culture?!
Also me: *is literally bisexual*
I am literally a lesbian and I hope to continue to avoid 'queer culture' if it makes you this ridiculous 😅
I honestly have always had more gay, bi, and trans friends than straight friends. I think this has been because I lived most of my life being undiagnosed autistic until mid 30s. I still experience constant bullying (always in the workplace). I relate to those who experienced bullying and discrimination for things they cannot (and don’t want to) change.
Also, most of us neurodivergent people are into kink and BDSM, which isn’t “queer” per say, but is another sexuality that had to fight to be allowed to exist and have rights by so called “polite” society
I relate to this
BdSm is considered it's own sexuality? 😅
🎶The queer police they live inside of my head🎶
Goddamn it! "... queer police live inside of my head..."
Greatly appreciated for this clarification that I was not aware I needed!
What about neurodivergent folks? I mean, we tend to have similiar experiences, such as being in a closet/masking, having to experiment eith self expression and tend to form friendship with queer people and tend to gravitate towards the same political and cultural circles.
Not to mention being straight up called gay very often, because other kids couldn’t wrap their head around why I act different.
I’ve been using the term “politically queer” to describe people in my life.
For example: a friend of mine is a cis straight man dating a trans woman. He has to involve himself in the narrative in many ways that cis/het men often don’t. And I’m not saying his partner isn’t a woman. I’m saying that, especially now in America, he is intrinsically part of a queer narrative.
Off topic, but can I just say, your HAIR!!! It is the moment, it is ICONIC, it is everything I wish for!
to be fair there are cishet queer people (like some a-spec people and intersex individuals) ...but culturely queer is an interesting concept, definetly something to think about
Im technically cis and straight but I'm also on the aro-ace spectrum and often feel like straight allosexual and romantic discourse usually doesn't represent my experience... it's like I'm too straight-passing to be "queer" but I'm not alloromantic or amatonormative enough for the straights 😅
It’s interesting, I just read an essay for one of my classes where this topic was brought up regarding Marcel Duchamp.
The critic, Paul B. Franklin, looked at Duchamp’s oeuvre (with a focus on ‘Fountain’) in a queer context. Despite Duchamp being a proclaimed heterosexual, he had a drag persona, used coded language, made art with queer undertones (such as Fountain with the homosexual association of urinals at the time), and when Frank Lloyd Wright confronted him about whether he considered homosexuality to be ‘degenerate’, Duchamp went as far to say, “I believe that the homosexual public has shown far more interest or curiosity for modern art than the heterosexual public… the receptive public is often a homosexual public.”
The general consensus was that while Duchamp was not LGBT+, he certainly would have fit the context of ‘culturally queer’. I believe this certainly is the case for many who participate within spaces that push boundaries of what is ‘culturally acceptable’.
“I love queer culture and have embraced aspects of it in my own life!” Is a fine statement. So is “many/most of the important people in my life are queer and so I feel really immersed into the culture!”
I mean yes, but culturally queer describes those things very well. I feel like the only reason people have an issue with it is because people will probably use it wrong
I am very confused about my gender identity. I was born a girl, and I love my feminine body, and I'm not exactly uncomfortable with female pronouns, but something about male pronouns just feels right. When I'm on the internet and someone assumes I'm male and uses male pronouns with me, it feels weird, but a really good weird. Sorry, I know it doesn't relate to the video at all, but this was the only place I felt comfortable to share this, and I kinda needed to talk about this with someone.
Culturally queer as a concept makes sense. Like CODAs with deaf culture. Are they queer? No. But do they have experiences that link them to the queer community, and separate them from the norm of the dominant culture? Absolutely.
There’s also dancing the line of queer… like gender nonconformity is often considered a queer behavior, but gender nonconformists might not identify as queer. I think a very queer-informed GNC person would totally be culturally queer, could even just call themself “queer”, even if they’re cishet. I think there’s a lot more to being queer, specifically, than being gay or trans. Being gay or trans makes someone lgbt, it doesn’t make them *queer*. That’s a whole other level of complexity.
Also some people are just like… honorary? Hardcore allies and Cis+ people, like… One Topic. He’s totally Cis+ and I’d feel completely comfortable with him in an otherwise trans space. Like, he literally *became* a trans and queer space. Because he was just so anti-transphobe and supportive that a trans safe space grew around him. (I wouldn’t call him culturally queer, he’s just cis+ and a very cool dude)
Why do you think being gay/trans doesn’t make someone queer?
Trust me, I’ve met some gay people that I feel ashamed to share a queer status with so yeah being lgbt does NOT make you automatically culturally queer
Imo I understand Cross saying that BC he experienced homophobia and being treated like/assumed that he's gay during glee BC audiences blurred the line between actor and character. And Glee was at the centre of attention outside of its viewers since it had big strides of gay rep on tv.
As soon as I heard the firt frase, Will Wood imideately comes to mind. He is very famous as a "gay" or "non-binary" icon because off the way he dresses and his behavior, even though he is straight and cis. He even made a song about it, its "I/Me/Myself" (literaly his most famous music right now); the music talks about the way society limits gender expression acording to gender, and that is realy fucked up. He's my favorite music artist since I discovered him back in november 2024, and I always loved the way he expresses his gender. It gives me an inspiration to embrace my indenty in a way I never felt before. And, honestly, I could talk about how this mans music changed my life for better, but that would take more than one TH-cam comment to write. I think this is a great topic of discussion and it should be brought out more to more people.
I am cis & straight, and married to a Trans Woman. I, for ease, ID as Queer but I'm still growing into that term. I've been welcomed in queer spaces cuz I'm in a Lesbian Marriage and I deal with... a lot of the Trans experience. So, I am cis & straight but def becoming culturally queer.
Darren I think is an interesting case. I don't (obviously) know him IRL. I do know he's played a gay man on GLEE and Hedwig and the Angry Inch on Broadway (he was amazing) and his friend circle tends to run extremely queer. He reads as Token Straight of a Queer circle.
I always felt the best part of about being in the queer community is that you can just be *you* - That you exist in this space without judgment. I'd hate to see any gatekeeping around that.
Hard disagree. As a queer person, I feel that the whole point of being LGBTQ+ is being able to define yourself and your own gender, exual and personal identity. Once you put your foot down and start deciding who is or isn't allowed to define who they are, you get into very murky waters. Gate keeping is a terrible look. I don't have to agree with someone to let them still self-determine.
Wow thank you, this is incredible to learn about and really captures my experience. all my closest friends and the creators I most enjoy following are lgbtqia+ 😊 and what has made me feel the most connected to the community, despite being cis het as far as I know, is the underlying shared commitment to being true to ourselves rather than prioritizing others’ expectations or comfort. Thank you!
I hadn’t heard this term but my personal metric for whether I truly belong to a culture is if I can use the words that people in that culture are retaking ownership of (usually slurs) without people suddenly and emphatically telling me that those words are not for me to use.
I get where this video is coming from, though, because my family is similar except my spouse and I are cishet allo and our kiddo (12 yo) is queer. So we try very much to expose her to queer culture, which of course puts us right alongside her in queer spaces and learning about queer culture. People are welcoming and inclusive of us in those spaces, but I wouldn’t say my spouse and I feel like we belong to that culture, per se, just that we’re welcome guests.
I have tons of cishet ally friends who absolutely belong in the queer community, even if they don't necessarily have queer identities. Gender non-conforming folk, people with queer family members and loved ones, enthusiastic straight ally boyfriends. I think cishet people are more than allowed to consider themselves part of the queer community as long as they actively participate in and advocate for the community they're claiming.
Being in Texas, I welcome the culturally queer. I would love it if all straight people had that empathy and were culturally queer.
It feels a bit odd having the opposite experience too. Idk if it's just imposter syndrome or what, but even though I'm bi and trans, I feel largely "culturally straight" sometimes. Maybe I'm just ill-informed on queer culture still 😵💫
Can you be culturally queer if you're cis and straight?
Short answer: Estelle Getty.
Longer answer:
Estelle, Sophia from Golden girls, was a heterosexual woman who identified as being part of the gay community. There are several wonderful interviews and write ups from queer people in her life about her, and how she welcomed them into the community when they themselves had not yet found community. She was, in every way that matters, queer. We're all the time telling the bigots that sexuality is not just about sex, and that the act of sex doesn't define us, and under those same circumstances, yes, I believe someone can be straight and cis and still be queer. Allyship doesn't make you queer, but being immersed in the culture, living the experience of queer people, and being some sort of fabulous psychopomp that ferries the closeted into the wonderous land of queer community can absolutely garner you honorary queerdom
Yes! She was and is a hero! I'm so grateful to live in a time and place where most people are supportive of LGBT+ people, but there are allies who support from the audience and then there are Allies like Estelle who are on stage with us.
@DillyBlue good analogy! Exactly!
You'll find a lot of polyamorous people who would count as culturally queer, even if they're cishet, because of the overlaps between queer bigotry & anti-polyamorous sentiments. Also, a whole bunch of us are queer ourselves, so the cishet polyams will often move in circles with a lot of queer people. The same applies to kink & BDSM spaces, & sometimes things like furry communities too
On the opposite spectrum, asexuals and aromantics.
Still can be straight, still also queer.
But everyone forgets about us! 😫😫😭😭😭😭
@Stopthisrightnow560 yup, even if you're aspec & another flavour of queer, your aspec identity is still ignored or forgotten 😭
Yeah the way I view queer is as a general term to encompass identities or lifestyles that don't fit within cishetallo norms, which I think is how it was used originally? Idk.
People who aren't necessarily LGBT+ but who don't fit those norms can still expeirence feelings of "otherment" from cishet spaces as well as feelings of kinship with queer spaces. I think that anyone who experiences that can be considered culturally queer.
Generally, I'd say that if someone is polyamorous, that's enough on its own to count as a kind of queer.
I like how there are actual problems in the world and people are worried about this.
I'm happy to accept Darren into our midst, he's earned his place and has gone above and beyond the rank of 'ally'.
A good representation of a culturally queer person on TH-cam is Maddie Morphosis from RPDR S14. Hes a straight male who does drag but has fully immersed himself in queer and drag culture in a very respectful way. The absolute epitome of an ally.
I agree with the most of the video, but that last "Darren"... he's very publicly said why he identifies as "culturally queer" feels super weird to make a video like this and not respond to what he actually said...which, no he has a lot more reason for identifying as culturally queer fhan just watching RuPaul's Drag Race.
Yeah it feels kinda weird that she would call him out without actually knowing _why_ he identifies as such, just assuming that he must be one of those cishet people who claims they're 'culturally queer' on a whim.
I agree that some straight people do that kind of thing, but that's clearly not the case here. Feels like an uninformed response for the sake of drama.
I’ve been looking for a way to describe this my whole life. Thank you!
Oh wow, this is just like being culturally deaf. I wonder, is there a culture like this for mobility issues/blindness?
Yes the disability community operates a lot like the deaf community where there is room for family, friends, interpreters, care workers etc who engage with deaf or disabled people and their culture
@batlover1977 that's so interesting! can you be culturally disabled without having a disability (like CODA's), and is there a big difference between being just medically disabled or also culturally disabled (like little d deaf vs. big D Deaf)? Would love to know more!
Idk I was raised by two non-religious cis straight parents and didn’t really have many friends growing up let alone queer friends so my experience largely feels alien when I do find myself in queer spaces, like I am anomalous. It’s weird as a trans woman, and a half-white, half-asian person bc I want to belong somewhere but often don’t feel like I have any right to do so? I am all these disparate aspects of my identity, and I’m unsure how to recognize them as parts of my whole identity, and being autistic and having masked unknowingly all my life certainly doesn’t help 😅
My stance on the topic is: yes, but it has to be peer reviewed. Just like you can’t give yourself an honorary degree, this label also has to be given by others. I also believe that as soon as someone starts to identify themselves by this label, it shall be stripped from them.
Yeah. Like, the Latine people I know who know my background generally consider me to be an "honorary Latine", though I also don't go around telling people that I'm Latine, because I'm not. It's a title that's been bestowed, not self-selected. (For context, I'm genetically very white but my mom was adopted and her mom is Mexican. My mom was adopted as a teenager so she's not that culturally Latina, but I've had an abuela and an entire Mexican half of my family since I was born. My mom's sister and her son even lived with us when I was growing up, and I consider him to be both my cousin and my brother)
@@Werevampiwolf oh absolutely!
@@exploridori it also kind of reminds me how a Deaf person can give a hearing person a sign name, but a hearing person can't give themselves a sign name. even if they are culturally Deaf, at the end of the day, they're still hearing
@@exploridori like John Cameron Mitchel, a gay Broadway writer calling Darren "the queerest straight man I've ever met"?
I remember Criss talking about this a good decade ago. He's always talked about how he grew up surrounded by queer people in the San Francisco musical theater scene. I haven't kept up with his career for a very long time, idk if he said something weird here, but yeah. He's always said he was practically raised by the very queer musical theater community around him 🤷
Generally I'm chill with this concept, but then there's cis straight girls whose "allyship" and doesn't go further than fetishizing MLM couples and their understanding of queer culture/issues comes exclusively from MLM media made by straight women for straight women, which is extremely inaccurate and just...gross. The same girls who tend to be very shitty to queer women and trans men in addition to not treating cis gay men like human beings, who don't actually give a shit about queer issues and will get pissed if you bring them up. I've seen that genre of straight girl start to go "hahaha I read so much gay smut I'm practically gay so I'm culturally queer!" And it's just...no...
So true! I have a friend who’s straight and cis, but he’s a theatre kid who’s in productions with a lot of queer people, is in the same friend group as me (80% of it is queer) and has had to play female roles before. He’s very immersed into the culture, and understands loads more about gays than most cis male peers. I would consider him culturally queer!
Okay this seriously annoys me. And I’m a queer woman. The pretentious tone and implying that Darren only says this because he watches drag race and couldn’t ACTUALLY be culturally queer like your SON because his parents aren’t gay, is wrong and rude. Do your research. That man is the exact definition of culturally queer that YOU gave and validated as real. Hell, all you have to do is read these comments. An acknowledgment that you mischaracterized him would be great but the lack of response to any of these comments makes me think that won’t be happening.
It's kind of weird that Maddie is considered culturally queer because she engages in drag, but Darren isn't considered culturally queer despite being in theater spaces and bonding with other queer people his entire life. Like, does Darren have to literally do drag for this to be "real" rather than being associated exclusively with his fictional gay character?
This is interesting. I hadn't really seen this yet, but i do feel some people definitely qualify. Natasha Lyonne, for example. I thought she was a lesbian for years. Great ally, and legit Queer Icon.
i feel like people see culture far too much as a thing you inherently have or a thing you’re born into when it’s simply the environment you’re raised in or are living in and the people who surround you. someone whose parents are from europe or africa or south america etc can be indian or japanese and have those cultures embedded into them regardless of race or their parent’s ethnicities.
we call for people to be culturally sensitive but then shame people for getting engrossed in the culture that surrounds them and interacting with it. there’s a negative way to interact with culture obviously, and there can be differences in the privileges you have and the other people around you have, but like in this case of maddy morphosis, he isn’t taking from queer culture and marketing it for success while ignoring the queer community, he’s engrossed himself into it and always has been engrossed in it.
Would you consider someone ace as queer? This actually a discussion some of my friends were talking about because someone told my friend who is ace that they arent queer enough because she appears to be in a het relationship regardless of previous dating experience. I pretty strongly dont agree with that but its hard to explain why that feels wrong. It sounds like the same logic people who've told me and others that i can't be pan or bi if im in a het appearing relationship.
That's called acephobia and identical to calling a bi person not queer enough for being in a straight passing relationship. Other queer people can be our biggest haters.
hearing darren screming “im in a rage” and getting sorted into “metrosexual” for a very potter musical moments will forever be ingrained in my brain lol
I am just going to hope that you were kidding. We do not go after people who are telling you who they are with out doing your google searching. Honstly what straight man wants to say they are Culturally Queer? Possably a man who has a reason to say it. It is dangerous. Honestly this is your worst take.
i dress in multiple different ways that express different gender idensities and my grandmas are lesbian. i also used to be trans. im culturally queer!
Also: Cishet people CAN be queer.
There are several identities that may allow someone to be cis and het AND queer. A good example is the aspec community or the aromantic\asexual spectrum.
Exactly! Intersex is still queer. Also I honestly think that Appalachia could definitely be considered a "queer culture" as in the definition of queer as unusual. Maybe I could just be biased tho.
@@ArcherdaNerdAs a queer Appalachian, I don't know that that's a great usage of the term queer. In modern parlance queer is someone who is a member of the LGBTQ community, and while it CAME from meaning unusual, it doesn't really mean that anymore. It feels unnecessarily muddling to conflate the two. Plus, a lot of Appalachians would not be happy about being called queer, haha.
Additionally, I don't know that our culture is that "odd" - it's just not general American culture. Almost everywhere in the US has cultural pockets like that. Everyone's culture is going to seem weird to someone.
oh my god you people are so fucking annoying, words have meaning. "u can be cis het & queer" is like saying "u can be a lesbian who is also attracted to men" no u can't actually and that's ok
I know a guy like that.
This is actually such a helpful term. There is a very distinct queer culture, and I think plenty of straight, cis people will feel more comfortable and have more fun in those environments than in "straight" ones. For example, gay clubs are often far more fun than straight ones if you like music and dancing
I don't like it because it centers a very specific subculture with a label used by millions that have nothing to do with Gay bars or theatre because of how/where they grew up. I understand these things historically were really important and where people banded together but it's a label for a flowing tub of water.
As a bi (but cis) person, my gut reaction was to roll my eyes and assume it was cishets wanting to be special, but the more you explained it, the more it made sense. Thank you for this!
Also, I always forget Darren Criss is straight lol
100% agree. People should be able to self identify as long as they aren’t doing it to be hateful!
I learned something new today! And I always love your sass, Jessica!
I love this video! Super thought provoking. So many of us in San Francisco drag community adore Maddy and it's really interesting to find a term that describes part of the reason why we feel so comfortable with her. It's also meaningful that many of us didn't grow up "culturally queer" despite being flaming gay and clueless 😂
Hmmm, good points, but maybe look into someone a bit deeper before throwing shade
Oh wow!! Your son has grown so much!! I remember when he was just born, I can't believe it's been that long
I’m trying to explain to my mom how ‘queer icons’ aren’t always queer, and how someone can be deeply and personally involved in the queer community while being cishet.
I’m going to add “culturally queer” to my vocab.
Asexuals are the easiest answer.
We can be cis/het but most importantly, we're queer!