Fowler Gyrotillers could be used at different depths and the contractors charged the same per acre regardless. My late grandfather told me all farmers tended to opt for the deepest depth of tillage "to get their money's worth" BUT on our heavy Norfolk clay soil this only ruined the soil structure. A friend of his found his 40-acre farm ruined (in the 30's) after gyrotilling and he sold-up in desperation! I think that, if used moderately, they might have been a useful tool. Thanks for a good channel.
They were fantastic at ripping out gorse and general scrub that a tractor+ plough could not look at , let it dry then burn the trash and you " won " A field that would have taken years of back breaking work to clean up.
@@jonathanwhite460 Yes, from what my grandfather (and magazine articles i have read) told me , i believe it was disturbing the soil structure to such a depth was the cause of the issue.
Over the past week I have watched every single video you have made. I am from a non agricultural background as townsfolk living within a dormitory village. I have held a fascination with agriculture since a child beginning from seeing a BBC series Victorian farm. I went to an agricultural college to learn about farming stuff which leads me now to working for a small agricultural machinery company. I see myself wanting to be an arable farmer but the disadvantage being there is little career progression in working for someone else and cannot afford the upfront cost to be a self employed contractor.
One of my grandparents told me something along the lines of. We can wage a war on nature, we can even win in the short term but in the end waging a war against nature is to wage a war where defeat is the only outcome. Either you run out of effort, recourses, equpiment and nature reclaims your land, or nature adapts to your instruments of war and you lose to a wave of "indestructable" pests, or you win, you wipe out all the nature in the area and you're left with a dead land where nothing grows and nothing lives so you lose everything.
My Father told me about the first tractor that came to his village in Bedfordshire. It got bogged after five minutes and they had to go and find two horses to pull it out. I became a tractor opperator by the way.
Machines aren’t the problem, it’s the way they are used by farmers. A lot of hedges I see in Somerset are smashed right back to the stem every autumn, destroying all the berries and habitat for overwintering bugs and mammals. That also doesn’t allow some of these hedgerow species to flower. Some species only flower on wood that is 2 years old. I’m not saying all farmers are bad but it’s too easy to smash a hedge to pieces with a flail rather than just trim it. Hedges do need to be treated better on the whole, they are a vital habitat and even more important because what they mimic is very sparse in the countryside now. Scrubland is probably the most important habitat to wildlife in this country, thousands of species rely on it because a large portion of British wildlife don’t like closed canopy woodlands, they prefer open woodland with plenty of light and flowers for the bugs they feed on and the scrub to nest in. Therefore our hedges, that mimic this habitat are just as vital as the flowers at the base and the trees in our woodlands.
@@2frogland Yeah I know the laws. But the laws only dictate when it can and can’t be cut not how much they can cut. As I said it’s so easy to just smash it right back than taking your time and only giving it a trim. This is also a factor as to why hedges become “gappy” that and not laying them.
@@spencersanderson1894hate the flail cutting of hedgerows. Looks awful and does nothing for the hedge. Always a pleasure to see a hedge laid properly.
@@howardchambers9679 Fair play, I don’t mind it if it’s done right, I’ve seen hedges where the farmer takes his time and does just trim it and it looks really good. I think Oli has done an episode where he shows how he cuts his hedges and they are good. But yeah a laid hedge is a thing of beauty.
It would be really interesting at some point to see a discussion of some of these fundamental land use issues, between you and people who have other perspectives, like someone from the rewilding community or someone actively involved in setting agricultural policy. Sensible, scientific, and policy minded people, so there's some common foundation to start from. Here's another random question: if organic farming is more profitable for the individual farmer (or at least, some organic farmers claim so), what drives an individual farmer's choice to continue with conventional agriculture? I imagine, not usually wider policy issues such as food security.
theres a limited market for organic produce,how big is the organic section in your local supermarket compared to conentional veggies, its more labour intensive, lower yields, much land like thin soil down land cant grow much without chemical input rewilding is a anti human ideology and not suited to the small uk, not to say preserving and creating habits for nature is not vital
If you look into regenerative agriculture, especially KNF you will find yields go up and inputs go down thus increasing profits substantially @@2frogland
Organic farming can be quite unprofitable too. My read of the situation is that small farms growing for market are often unprofitable if they just accept commodity prices. They really need to be focusing their efforts on marketing direct to retail customers to make a decent living. Not everyone is a gifted marketeer and a gifted farmer so what the organic label provided (at least for awhile) was a readymade marketing strategy for small farmers. There is a very small niche of people that are spooked by any sort of chemical but the vast majority of farm market customers are just after high quality fresh produce, organic or not. It may seem froofy but fresh fruits and vegetables are one of the great joys in life.
@@rblongfellow It really is that, for many organic/local/farm-to-market products are signifiers of higher quality. Thus, the higher price tag is acceptable. However, this is a constrained market to only those with the surplus cash to spend more on foodstuff thus the market size is limited.
@@Webbedtrout you're absolutely right. There are some programs in the US that give credit to people to buy fresh produce at farmers markets but it doesn't amount to much and can be cumbersome for the farmer to collect.
"Gyrotillers" still exist, but in a much diminished purpose, as a means of 'vertically' tilling roughly prepared lands into a plantable seedbed, instead of the 'disc harrow' which causes more surface compaction than desired. The modern parlance is to refer to them as 'power harrows'.
I kinda dislike the black and white views on both sides of the "with or against nature" -divide. It's blatantly obvious that industrial farming methods are not taking advantage of a ton of potential free labor that all kinds of organisms could do for us if we managed to find better compromises. Should be technically possible to farm in a way that enriches soil instead of degrading it. But the permaculture etc. people are also often ignorant about pretty basic stuff and especially fail to appreciate the UNGODLY work hours to calories ratio that modern farming can achieve. It's like orders of magnitude greater than I think people intuit. A goddamn miracle even if it comes with plenty of downsides. I'd be interested to hear if you have thoughts about producing food with perennial plants. I guess the labor of harvesting is just a thorn we haven't managed to dull. A monoculture is insanely vulnerable as it is forcing nature to a very unstable configuration we have to constantly fight a war to preserve it. And doing so also degrades our world. But even if very diverse systems are superior in almost all other ways the labor question just trumps out everything else. Unless we find pretty ingenious solutions. No way are we just gonna have 50x more farmers or some silly shit like that in industrial countries and as we expanded our population by maximally spamming annual monoculture calories this is the boat we are stuck in for now. So we should focus on incremental realistic upgrades instead of demanding a sudden revolution where we change everything.
Growing an orchard on my little farm is a fight to help my trees survive against grass that keeps growing taller than the trees. I’ve bought around $70k of equipment and supplies to try to keep the grass down.
My Great-Grandfather (b. 1905) maintained that electricity was of more general and practical import than fuel powered mechanization, at least in the dairy region he lived in.
that's interesting,i remember seeing a farmer interviewed in the 1990s,he was asked what was the greatest innovation for agriculture in his lifetime, he said it was the mobile phone,clearly being able to communicate ,whilst on a tractor 1/2 a mile from the house was a big advantage.
just found your channel - looks good so far. I have subbed. I grew up in Leicestershire, now I'm in east Kent. Whereabout is your farm? somewhere between Coalville and Shepshed?
@12:30 - Here in the USA, a fully capitalistic/commodified agriculture produces the opposite; toxic, degraded landscapes unable to support those secondary benefits of a thriving 'society' which separate it- in function, output, and experience- from any other purely extractive, colonialistic environment. In that, it is even more damning to point out that (as my Father put it...) "there would never be a proper living to be made in 'small' farming, because as soon as there is, everyone wants to do it." We live balanced between poverty and suicide....
For gyrotillers, im not shure wether they got pushed or pulled, but the modern equivalent is either what in german is called a "Kreiselgrubber" or a "kreiselegge". Gut feeling says its the former
That plowing is going downhill; who does that? In my area, the plowing always goes level, the superstition being that if you go down or uphill, the rain will wash out the nutrients from the high ground.
In London there are far more green spaces that you can go into. The countryside is entirely owned and fenced off. Sure there are rights of way but you can't just have a picnic in a field like how you can in an urban park.
Just think, if there had not been these machines, then Oli would be out in the fields with his horse and plough, to not have time for this internet shenanigans. The government had the foresight with mechanisation to know that the people not needed on farms had bright futures as social media influencers. As for Laurie Lee, might as well be quoting a BBC presenter. He had an unusual interest in under age girls. Cider with Rosie is about that, he stalked his wife Cathy from when she was an inappropriate age and how he conducted himself in the village as a recluse to all but young women leaves a lot to be desired. But we didn't even have the word for PDF files back then, it was really the community that kept the likes of him in check.
Au contraire! Most of the problems with Deere is the DRM prohibiting repair. I mean we are a little while into the computer revolution. More time in and Oli's descendants will be giving lectures on computer code.
John Deere totally relies on farmers. Without farmers, John Deere would not exist. Something that orght to be pointed out to their currant CEO. Telling farmers that its illegal to repair their own tractor that is broken because John Deere own the rights to the software and threatening them with legal action...... I would not have a John Deere on the farm.
A few lessons to be learnt here. Never criticise the farmer with your mouth full. Our island would have starved and been defeated by the Nazis without the farming community. Our population continues to grow so we must produce more food. Our countryside has been managed for thousands of years. The concept of re-wilding sounds great where will that re-wilding start. Two hundred years ago or two thousand year back ? There’s not many people who would be prepared to do the old traditional farm work. Following a horse drawn plough in all weathers or operate a tractor with an air conditioned cab 🤔
This guy is a British national treasure. 🤠 Props from across the pond.
Fowler Gyrotillers could be used at different depths and the contractors charged the same per acre regardless. My late grandfather told me all farmers tended to opt for the deepest depth of tillage "to get their money's worth" BUT on our heavy Norfolk clay soil this only ruined the soil structure. A friend of his found his 40-acre farm ruined (in the 30's) after gyrotilling and he sold-up in desperation! I think that, if used moderately, they might have been a useful tool. Thanks for a good channel.
They were fantastic at ripping out gorse and general scrub that a tractor+ plough could not look at , let it dry then burn the trash and you " won " A field that would have taken years of back breaking work to clean up.
just a question,was it bringing up the sub soil that damaged the soil?
@@jonathanwhite460 Yes, from what my grandfather (and magazine articles i have read) told me , i believe it was disturbing the soil structure to such a depth was the cause of the issue.
@@marklorne6790 thank you
Over the past week I have watched every single video you have made. I am from a non agricultural background as townsfolk living within a dormitory village. I have held a fascination with agriculture since a child beginning from seeing a BBC series Victorian farm. I went to an agricultural college to learn about farming stuff which leads me now to working for a small agricultural machinery company. I see myself wanting to be an arable farmer but the disadvantage being there is little career progression in working for someone else and cannot afford the upfront cost to be a self employed contractor.
One of my grandparents told me something along the lines of.
We can wage a war on nature, we can even win in the short term but in the end waging a war against nature is to wage a war where defeat is the only outcome. Either you run out of effort, recourses, equpiment and nature reclaims your land, or nature adapts to your instruments of war and you lose to a wave of "indestructable" pests, or you win, you wipe out all the nature in the area and you're left with a dead land where nothing grows and nothing lives so you lose everything.
My Father told me about the first tractor that came to his village in Bedfordshire. It got bogged after five minutes and they had to go and find two horses to pull it out.
I became a tractor opperator by the way.
my favourite channel at the moment
Machines aren’t the problem, it’s the way they are used by farmers. A lot of hedges I see in Somerset are smashed right back to the stem every autumn, destroying all the berries and habitat for overwintering bugs and mammals. That also doesn’t allow some of these hedgerow species to flower. Some species only flower on wood that is 2 years old.
I’m not saying all farmers are bad but it’s too easy to smash a hedge to pieces with a flail rather than just trim it. Hedges do need to be treated better on the whole, they are a vital habitat and even more important because what they mimic is very sparse in the countryside now. Scrubland is probably the most important habitat to wildlife in this country, thousands of species rely on it because a large portion of British wildlife don’t like closed canopy woodlands, they prefer open woodland with plenty of light and flowers for the bugs they feed on and the scrub to nest in.
Therefore our hedges, that mimic this habitat are just as vital as the flowers at the base and the trees in our woodlands.
there are strict rules on cutting hedges nowadays
@@2frogland Yeah I know the laws. But the laws only dictate when it can and can’t be cut not how much they can cut. As I said it’s so easy to just smash it right back than taking your time and only giving it a trim. This is also a factor as to why hedges become “gappy” that and not laying them.
@@spencersanderson1894hate the flail cutting of hedgerows. Looks awful and does nothing for the hedge. Always a pleasure to see a hedge laid properly.
He's had a bit to say about hedgerows and habitat
@@howardchambers9679 Fair play, I don’t mind it if it’s done right, I’ve seen hedges where the farmer takes his time and does just trim it and it looks really good. I think Oli has done an episode where he shows how he cuts his hedges and they are good. But yeah a laid hedge is a thing of beauty.
It would be really interesting at some point to see a discussion of some of these fundamental land use issues, between you and people who have other perspectives, like someone from the rewilding community or someone actively involved in setting agricultural policy. Sensible, scientific, and policy minded people, so there's some common foundation to start from.
Here's another random question: if organic farming is more profitable for the individual farmer (or at least, some organic farmers claim so), what drives an individual farmer's choice to continue with conventional agriculture? I imagine, not usually wider policy issues such as food security.
theres a limited market for organic produce,how big is the organic section in your local supermarket compared to conentional veggies, its more labour intensive, lower yields, much land like thin soil down land cant grow much without chemical input
rewilding is a anti human ideology and not suited to the small uk, not to say preserving and creating habits for nature is not vital
If you look into regenerative agriculture, especially KNF you will find yields go up and inputs go down thus increasing profits substantially @@2frogland
Organic farming can be quite unprofitable too. My read of the situation is that small farms growing for market are often unprofitable if they just accept commodity prices. They really need to be focusing their efforts on marketing direct to retail customers to make a decent living. Not everyone is a gifted marketeer and a gifted farmer so what the organic label provided (at least for awhile) was a readymade marketing strategy for small farmers.
There is a very small niche of people that are spooked by any sort of chemical but the vast majority of farm market customers are just after high quality fresh produce, organic or not.
It may seem froofy but fresh fruits and vegetables are one of the great joys in life.
@@rblongfellow It really is that, for many organic/local/farm-to-market products are signifiers of higher quality. Thus, the higher price tag is acceptable. However, this is a constrained market to only those with the surplus cash to spend more on foodstuff thus the market size is limited.
@@Webbedtrout you're absolutely right. There are some programs in the US that give credit to people to buy fresh produce at farmers markets but it doesn't amount to much and can be cumbersome for the farmer to collect.
"Gyrotillers" still exist, but in a much diminished purpose, as a means of 'vertically' tilling roughly prepared lands into a plantable seedbed, instead of the 'disc harrow' which causes more surface compaction than desired. The modern parlance is to refer to them as 'power harrows'.
I kinda dislike the black and white views on both sides of the "with or against nature" -divide.
It's blatantly obvious that industrial farming methods are not taking advantage of a ton of potential free labor that all kinds of organisms could do for us if we managed to find better compromises. Should be technically possible to farm in a way that enriches soil instead of degrading it.
But the permaculture etc. people are also often ignorant about pretty basic stuff and especially fail to appreciate the UNGODLY work hours to calories ratio that modern farming can achieve. It's like orders of magnitude greater than I think people intuit. A goddamn miracle even if it comes with plenty of downsides.
I'd be interested to hear if you have thoughts about producing food with perennial plants.
I guess the labor of harvesting is just a thorn we haven't managed to dull. A monoculture is insanely vulnerable as it is forcing nature to a very unstable configuration we have to constantly fight a war to preserve it. And doing so also degrades our world.
But even if very diverse systems are superior in almost all other ways the labor question just trumps out everything else. Unless we find pretty ingenious solutions.
No way are we just gonna have 50x more farmers or some silly shit like that in industrial countries and as we expanded our population by maximally spamming annual monoculture calories this is the boat we are stuck in for now. So we should focus on incremental realistic upgrades instead of demanding a sudden revolution where we change everything.
mixed farms did improve the soil year by year , you cant grow food to feed a population unless you have single crop fields
Growing an orchard on my little farm is a fight to help my trees survive against grass that keeps growing taller than the trees. I’ve bought around $70k of equipment and supplies to try to keep the grass down.
My Great-Grandfather (b. 1905) maintained that electricity was of more general and practical import than fuel powered mechanization, at least in the dairy region he lived in.
that's interesting,i remember seeing a farmer interviewed in the 1990s,he was asked what was the greatest innovation for agriculture in his lifetime, he said it was the mobile phone,clearly being able to communicate ,whilst on a tractor 1/2 a mile from the house was a big advantage.
just found your channel - looks good so far. I have subbed. I grew up in Leicestershire, now I'm in east Kent. Whereabout is your farm? somewhere between Coalville and Shepshed?
modern equivalet of a gyro tiller is the power harrow but used on ploughed land not virgin
We're most likely to use a Yeoman Plow, a subsoiling key line plow, to break compacted or Virginia land
@12:30 - Here in the USA, a fully capitalistic/commodified agriculture produces the opposite; toxic, degraded landscapes unable to support those secondary benefits of a thriving 'society' which separate it- in function, output, and experience- from any other purely extractive, colonialistic environment. In that, it is even more damning to point out that (as my Father put it...) "there would never be a proper living to be made in 'small' farming, because as soon as there is, everyone wants to do it." We live balanced between poverty and suicide....
🙄
For gyrotillers, im not shure wether they got pushed or pulled, but the modern equivalent is either what in german is called a "Kreiselgrubber" or a "kreiselegge".
Gut feeling says its the former
Noted
Mmmm acron. It is not bad; I have had some delicious acorn flour biscuits.
A bad heading.
Without nature farming and, in fact, anything would not exist.
Nature is always the boss every time.
That plowing is going downhill; who does that? In my area, the plowing always goes level, the superstition being that if you go down or uphill, the rain will wash out the nutrients from the high ground.
The superstition should be, don't plough uphill or downhill on a tractor without a roll cage!
We plough 'on contour' where possible, but if the slope is steep, that's more dangerous as the tractor is at risk of rolling
level ground? have you been to devon?
It’s all about bloody England !
Would be cool if you compare and conteast to mechanization in America
Government subsidies, selling out to China, jd ripping farmers aholes with high cost of machines... terrible
Most green belts have no amenities for the people
In London there are far more green spaces that you can go into. The countryside is entirely owned and fenced off. Sure there are rights of way but you can't just have a picnic in a field like how you can in an urban park.
Just think, if there had not been these machines, then Oli would be out in the fields with his horse and plough, to not have time for this internet shenanigans. The government had the foresight with mechanisation to know that the people not needed on farms had bright futures as social media influencers.
As for Laurie Lee, might as well be quoting a BBC presenter. He had an unusual interest in under age girls. Cider with Rosie is about that, he stalked his wife Cathy from when she was an inappropriate age and how he conducted himself in the village as a recluse to all but young women leaves a lot to be desired. But we didn't even have the word for PDF files back then, it was really the community that kept the likes of him in check.
First here!
Second!
@@ArosIrwin Bronze medal.
Great channel it’s through history we learn
If farmers were such smart mechanics they wouldn't depend on John Deere
You've obviously missed the revolution against JD.
Au contraire! Most of the problems with Deere is the DRM prohibiting repair. I mean we are a little while into the computer revolution. More time in and Oli's descendants will be giving lectures on computer code.
I'm going to assume you are being itonic because if not, holy dhit are you out of the loop.
John Deere totally relies on farmers. Without farmers, John Deere would not exist. Something that orght to be pointed out to their currant CEO.
Telling farmers that its illegal to repair their own tractor that is broken because John Deere own the rights to the software and threatening them with legal action......
I would not have a John Deere on the farm.
Good video greetings from co down Ni the birth place of Harry Ferguson 👍
A few lessons to be learnt here. Never criticise the farmer with your mouth full. Our island would have starved and been defeated by the Nazis without
the farming community. Our population continues to grow so we must produce more food. Our countryside has been managed for thousands of years.
The concept of re-wilding sounds great where will that re-wilding start. Two hundred years ago or two thousand year back ? There’s not many people
who would be prepared to do the old traditional farm work. Following a horse drawn plough in all weathers or operate a tractor with an air conditioned cab 🤔