I was excited when I saw your intro sequence in the trailer! I was like "Hey! I know them! I'm subscribed to them!" You and all the other animators did a great job!
Vesper: tell me celestia, why did you make us a princess, without our permission. Celestia: so that hasbro can make more money by selling new toys and do more marketing.
"I saw the potential in you to be great and I wanted you to have it." I don't think there's any other quote that more perfectly sums up how much Celestia loves Twilight as her mentor and friend.
@@wildbill9490 it is none of her business, but as a friend she saw goodness and greatness in Twilight and was able to help her steer towards that path, she had the power to help Twilight change. She likely went through the same struggles. How do you think did she became an alicorn? Starswirl was her mentor and he saw greatness in her too, he too had the power to show her the opportunities in front of her and her sister's. As a friend, she helped Twilight see the greatness in herself when she constantly doubted her worthiness. Along with Twilight's other friends, she built her up with the care and love Twilight needed to grow and become who she is now.
@@johnangelfritzbaylon5327 Celestia was born an alicorn. And whether or not someone sees greatness in you doesn’t give them the right to steer you onto a particular path in life. Free will trumps all supposed notions of fate and destiny.
@@wildbill9490 no she wasn't, in the episode where flurry heart was born, Celestia said that no pony has ever been born an alicorn meaning she was once just a unicorn, a very gifted one, like Twilight. And she didn't have the right, but she had the responsibility of it being the ruler of Equestria, knowing she won't rule forever she had to train someone, and that's Twilight. She also was her mentor, it was her duty to teach Twilight everything she needed to know and expose her to the lessons she also once faced under Starswirl.
@@wildbill9490 Are you serious right now, she is Twilight’s friend and mentor, teachers have a duty to lead their students down the right path that’s literally their job, and as not only a mentor but as a friend Celestia wanted Twilight to have the opportunity to be the best she could and support her, she didn’t force Twilight to make the decisions she made, she just provided the scenario and let Twilight take her own path, and the path she took was the path that led her to be able to stand by her mentor not as just a student, but a friend and an equal. Something Celestia takes pride in not because she made it happen, but because Twilight chose to take that path by allowing herself to open up and be the amazing pony Celestia saw in her all those years ago
My theory is that the Gray Twilight is a part of Twilight she doesn’t want to admit to herself. She still cares about Celestia, but she holds some resentment towards her mentor for making her an Alicorn without her volition. This “shadow” Twilight is just all that resentment boiled over.
Cj Marshall -- if not inversions- grey if what prime represses and vice versa, more or less as I suspect that grey wants to believe but she doesn’t want what that faith brought her and she (understandably) refuses to not care about it
I've actually thought about this a lot, and I'm glad to see it addressed in an animation. Sometimes Celestia's actions seemed selfish, but both sides made really good points.
If I may say; Celestia basically organized it So Twilight would meet her inevitable friends... Celestia made sure Twilight would have the Elements when she sent Star Swirls book... Which led to a very emotional day for Twilight.... Celestia made sure To tell Twilight not to tell her friends that she had all of the alicorn magic... When they seriously could have helped her in some way... Celestia failed to point out that, just maybe, Twilight would outlive her friends once she was in alicorn. Celestia, herself, said "what is the princess of friendship without her friends..." And yet clearly never granted those friends immortality or longevity of any kind. Vesper's anger and hatred is very much justified in that light... Vesper realized that she was going to outlive her friends... And she had the reminder on her back... all caused by Celestia when you get right down to it... And who is Celestia to say what Twilight's destiny is? It should be Twilight's choice... Not a choice started by someone else...
The thing I’ve scratched my head about is why celestia made five random ponies into the protectors of equestria with twilight leading them, and why they were just…..okay with it
@@CindyHelmsIn Celestia's defence, wouldn't a loss of friendship/loved one be good as a point of learning? After all, isn't it the truth that friends will come and go, people will come and go and on and on. What's the guarantee that Twillight wouldn't still outlive her friends even without Alicorn magic?
*One hour later in the bed*. Celestia:uhh? Twil- Twilight: PRINCESS CELESTIA UMM I CAN EXPLAIN ! Luna:*taking a video*. Celestia: Luna were did you get that. Luna: i get this from the human world by stea- I mean buying it. Grey twilight: What is happening!?
What remained of it was difficult to watch. What remained of it was difficult to watch. Every time I saw her, I couldn't look away. It was very disturbing. 😱😱😱
Wait, did this Twilight actually sever her own wings off? She was really so upset about her transformation that she cut off the proof and responsibility of it? Jeez, that’s... dark
Its really... Questionable.... For the Mentality of Twilight and her "Other self".. Since her other self Forsaken celestia and she.. cutted her wings off... And lost her color... But It did Raised some questions... Even Though Celestia's and Luna's origins are a mystery.. Even The IDW comics are trying to make up their origins... But Lauren Faust had said is that Celestia and luna are.... Deitys.. They had no parents.. They were born out of the universe.. And Celestia and Luna's timing of appearing when She revealed herself... Did made me question it.. But i can't basically know a Thousand year old mind...
I think about it as she didn't want a reminder of the fact that she was immortal... Celestia said it herself at the end of season 4: what is a princess of friendship without her friends? The wings, I guess, symbolized to Twilight immortality... Since Celestia looks exactly the same as she did 1,000 years ago... It's easy to think that Celestia and the other princesses are immortal... But Twilight's friends? They aren't alicorns... Meaning they're not immortal... Vesper realized she was going to outlive her friends.... Friends she was close to.... And what is the princess of friendship without her friends?
@@CindyHelms There's a problem with being immortal since alot of story's have immortality as a tragedy part, Because yeah twilight will see her brother pass away from old age, her friends will pass away from old age, And then.... well... She herself will beg for death, Like Gabriel Belmont in lords of shadow 2.. But the gray twilight in this does make a point about Celestia, but seeing more of her history (IDW comics, and the show). Celestia Knows that her as a alicorn is a curse since she stopped aging, and she ruled equestria for those many years and especially banishing her sister which caused her to be alone for many years... Gray twilight had a point, but she never did know why exactly Celestia chose her to be the next ruler...
She right about one thing; We should question and criticize reality, especially our leaders. Furthermore, trust should be earned, not merely given as a right.
Well like Twilight said that’s what friends do, true friends don’t need proof they have faith, and in a way this was like Discord’s test. I have a theory that Celestia sent Discord to test his loyalty to see if he was truly Equestria’s ally, and a test to see if Twilight and her friends truly befriended Discord.
Exactly. And Discord never earned anyone's trust. All he did was give everyone more than enough reason not to trust him or treat him like a friend. Heck, in There's A Crowd, he was more interested in watching Twilight squirm throughout his "friendship test" than he was in actually being friends, as proven when he makes taking care of him a madhouse thus wasting their whole day on him, makes both Twilight & Cadance fly him to the edge of Equestria in a heavy gold chairiot, and to top it all, he does NOTHING to help them when they got attacked by the tatzlwurm; they got trapped in its mouth for a moment and he just sat back, watched, and laughed knowing that he got what he wanted.
@@raijyn2452 Hell starlight has proven that despite her faults? They CAN trust her. Discord hasn't done anything to earn their trust nor was he even trying.
I think the same can apply to Redemption. Forgiveness is just the first step that has to be earned. Reconciliation is the next step where both parties actively work to rebuild the relationship through trust, time, and active effort.
@@hyperdreamer9483 A test she bombed and badly when ya think about it. Discord was definitely the most in the wrong but it's not like twilight was even trying to befriend him.
Shadow Twilight Sparkle is basically saying that ever since Twilight became Celestia's student, she's been hiding under her shadow and that Twilight has been cheated out on her own destiny
@That Muggle-Born Demigod season 9 validates everything Gray Twilight said. Celestia hijacked her life and used her without ever giving her a chance to make her own choices. She never asked to be a princess, much less the ruler of all Equestria. That’s why the season has to be revised so Celestia never retires and Twilight stays in Ponyville where she belongs.
1. That's actually untrue about the canon Celestia for the most part. 2. The fandom isn't one to glamorize a character by hiding details. That's why I prefer works like this to the actual show. It actually reveals a characters deepest secrets and leaves nothing out.
I'm still skeptical about Celestia, mostly because her actions are strange and a millennium ago. But naming all the events would be very long for a comment. I don't think she was meant to be a malicious character, but the holes in the lore paint her as such. This video doesn't really address the main issues, but it is entertaining.
Honestly, I see the whole "Nightmare Moon" thing as not being "she's too strong" but rather that Celestia wanted to save her sister instead of banish her all over again. She got Twilight and friends to use the "true" Elements of Harmony to do the job because it would allow Twilight to discover the Magic of Friendship while also purifying Luna in the process.
I also figured that the reason she had to banish NNM in the first place was because she was only bonded properly to half the elements and the other three were bonded to Luna and that's why she couldn't purify her on her own. Other compatible ponies had to be the ones to do it.
Do remember, Twilight was focused on figuring out where she was and who her kidnapped was. She probably would’ve brought up that point if her mind wasn’t occupied elsewhere
Edward Richards -- I don’t think forgotten, grey Twi awoke from the friendship highs because she didn’t want to be a princess and the liberty that Celestia took with her life hurt her badly. Everything else was a lead up to that argument and I bet grey Twi was trying both to “save” Prime Twi from the same path and stick it to Celestia for it. The entire skepticism hinges on the princess destiny thing thus casting all that came before into doubt.
Vesper has a point, neither Celestia nor Twilight's friends took Twilight's words into consideration at the wedding rehearsal but Twilight has a point about the wedding rehearsal, she admitted that she did come in all hyped up and accused "Cadance" for being evil, but in the end she turned out to be right, because it was really Queen Chrysalis in disguise and even she pointed out that they could have stop her sooner if Twilight's friends had listened to her when she spotted something going on with "Cadance's" behavior Queen Chrysalis said this line in the episode: "It's funny, really. Twilight here was suspicious about my behavior all along. Too bad the rest of you were too catch up in your wedding plan to realize those suspicions were correct." At that point, Everypony realize that Chrysalis was right and Applejack (who spoke on everypony's behalf) apologized to Twilight and said that they should have listen to her, even though Twilight showed no hard feelings and forgives them
Yeah if they would've just kept their ego out of their flanks and listened to the ONE pony who knows Cadence more than anyone else and then they could've saved us ALL the trouble of dealing with all the horse bug psychopaths!
I'm still angry about that. They trusted a pony they knew for 3 hours over a pony they knew for 3 years. Celestia is just as bad if not worse, she was Twilight's teacher, who had trained her since she was a filly. In many ways, she was Twilight's mother. But not even she took the moment to at least listen to her students claims, but no, she simply walked off and told her she was in the wrong. That betrayal of trust would be enough to drive anyone to the dark side.
@@eshaanreza832 yes but its more to rule a country than the ability to defend it.. And lets be real the chance for pinkie to turn into Pinkamena to be freed by pinkie under pressure of the Relationship
I think I know why second dimension Twilight acted the way she did, to be honest I’m not a psychiatrist but, the reason why second dimension twilight acted the way she did is because she has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, or PTSD, all the danger she faced has caused her a lot of trauma during her youth, causing her cortisol levels to go through the roof, PTSD would cause people to have aggressive outbursts, and people with PTSD don’t really cope with the stress of change very well, Second dimension Twilight with her PTSD when she became a princess, the stress that comes with it is dangerous to her, that’s why she acted the way she did, but again I’m no psychiatrist, and besides it’s just a theory, A FILM THEORY!(sorry I had to)
I’m glad a lot of people understand what I was trying to say despite the fact that what I said in a grammar like scenario doesn’t really make any sense
I’ve studied psychology and I think you might be into something. I have PTSD myself and all that spiraling alternate universe Twilight went through at the very end is something very common of PTSD. Changes, the ability to trust, and stress are all things those with PTSD struggle with. I would know, because I’m one of those people. While I knew alternate dimension Twilight was wrong, I could relate to her questioning the intentions behind Princess Celestia, and the distrust in/challenging the truth. Alternate Twilight was coming from a strong desire to protect herself (both her selves) because people with PTSD can sometimes feel like themselves is the only one they can trust. The more I think about it, the more likely I see PTSD as the explanation for alternate Twilight’s behavior and thought process.
joshscorcher Hello Scorcher, I loved your final moves like Jiraiya’s Fire Blast, The Giant Sword From the Portal and Final Explosion From DBZ those are some of the best goddamn videos I have ever seen.
Twilight doesn’t want power at all, she wanted to keep balance of friendship intact around the world and be with friends and family. She doesn’t need to be a ruler or have all that power to save the world and she knows it’s not her place to misuse them.
There's a pretty simple answer to why Celestia can't just go around fixing all the problems: If she did then ponies would become too dependent on _her_ and if ever there was a reason she wasn't around and she hadn't trained someone to deal with it Equestria would be screwed. Then there's everyday responsibilities, (governing, audiences, public appearances, etc which means she can't dash off to here there and everywhere at the drop of a hat to deal with issues. Even the cutie map rarely sent the entire mane six somewhere. Then there's the fact the the show is by design Twilight-centric. Just because the Mane Six are the "Social Fixers" doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't have other teams of ponies trained to deal with other problems. Diplomats, military responses, that kind of thing. The Friends Forever comics touched on Blueblood being an effective diplomat even though he's a total knob.
"Why does God allow evil in the world?!" Because he gave us free will to be good people. Taking care of the world is OUR responsibility, and God has given us his guidance in The Bible, the literal recorded word of God as transcribed by the divinely inspired prophets, apostles, and disciples.
@@Usablemessage Parents have the same responsibility to not be snowplow parents who turn their child into a spoiled brat who can't handle the least bit of adversity.
I like it. The only thing I would change would be Main Twi actually admitting that she had doubts about Celestia. To, in a way, validate Gray Twi's feelings. She would admit that she never understood why Celestia gave her such expectations out of the blue without even thinking of the effect it could have on the young mare. Celestia, in turn, would apologize in turn for not taking into consideration Twi's feelings. That way together (Main Twi and Celestia) could give Gray Twi a new way of seeing her views. Celestia could still do the calling flare and admit to not being able to fully help Gray Twi, but at least Gray Twi may be more willing to learn from her Celestia.
Hello guys, LuckoDaStars here, I am one of the animators for this project. And I am so glad you guys are going to be here to see a long project finally come to fruition
This was honestly a really good animation this particular fic i listened to as an audio book on youtube then i found it back on filmfic. This gave me chills to see this animated. And it stayed true to that fic i herd so long ago despite it being shortened a tiny bit. So well done!!! /)(\
Maybe in the gray twilight's timeline,her friends have died and she hated being an alicorn so she cut her wings off.Also at some point started hating Celestia
I thought something happened, too. But thinking about it further, I theorized that unlike our Twi, Grey didn't get over her own self doubts, which festered and projected onto Celestia.
I half expected the Gray-Twi's version of Celestia to be a cruel and sadistic ruler. Which imo would explain gray twilight breaking the mirror as a way to protect a dimension where her alternative self was happy and Celestia was actually a kind ruler who treated her favored student well.
I was thinking either that, or she faced a bunch of tragedy and hardship after becoming monarch. Like endless famines or wars happened in the kingdom, and she wanted to escape the responsibilities she had.
@@Twilight17Petkoton I think it was more like this version of Twilight had kept her problems and pain inside instead of having her friends help her. This Twilight has more of her reasoning on logic and safety of Equestria as a whole.
@@bonniefazman9065 So then the Princess Twilight Sparkle tell her gray self everyone is not prefect. Before going to the dark power thanks to Princess Celestia and Luna telling her everyone is not easy. Before a different dimension Princess Celestia show up and end. After seeing some Star Wars episode 8 vibes.
Its ok to feling good or evil but to feling good or evil its not what you feling shuld do to the Only one who can shose good or evil its you shelf then i men evrione
@@nicke9012 Vesper had stated that literally nothing has changed, her timeline and events was exactly the same as Twilights, the only thing that has changed is her mindset and realization, but I really took vespers side more, for some reason it did make sense and it wasn't just because I sympathized for her something about the whole thing felt wrong or maybe it's because it's something I wouldn't do but it's so hard not to give in to darkness and doubt that you kinda just don't want to like it's better that way, maybe that explains why I sorta felt anger for Twilight, Luna and Celestia. For Vesper, it felt as if doubt had not clouded her mind but instead enlighten it, but she had gone too far deep into the pits of her mind that she had turned to darkness and it had overwhelmed her leading her lose herself causing her to snap and do what she did.
To them it was about what they THINK is right not what truly is, look where it had led Vesper, dismissing her thoughts and feelings about the manner is what lead her to question them.
But truly contemplate on this. To suddenly have a big responsible you've never asked for handed to you kinda of like what a parent would want for their spouse. But speaking about that metaphor,, of course we would want our parents to be proud of us and our accomplishments, but would it truly be alright if it affects our expense of our happiness? Which leads me to my next point, to lead on as a new ruler in which you have no experience of doing so, having so many eyes on you the pressure and stress is unbearable you are expected to act strong for an entire nation and in that matter you have to balance out what your destiny truly is and how it works, having no time to really think about it it is completely and utterly stressful. Having to keep a strong face as a strong new leader in hopes of getting accepted by the public and not letting them down, now you are led with the destiny to make sure the Kingdom doesn't fall down into shambles, all that for one person or rather pony especially with one who had to lead her own way since she is a crowned new ruler of Friendship, after all everypony has their own special talent there wasn't much the other Princesses could offer help from. I understand how change really makes things so much more complicated sure it's beautiful and the start of a new cycle but Twilight had never mentioned in the show that she had been longing for something different or greater, instead her whole life had change unexpectedly. The only reason it is 'okay' in this situation is because Twilight had accepted it, it didn't make it right for Celestia to turn her into an Alicorn without her consent or offering it to her but the only reason she didn't turn out like Vesper is because Vesper was not okay with it. It's one of those things that 'yeah you did this really bad thing but luckily I'm okay with it and I forgive you or whatever so everything's okay and turned out fine' but does it really excuse the action or situation itself? A bigger destiny does not always mean a brighter future I mean just look at how Vesper turned out, everything was exactly the same as Twilights universe the only small different that caused the chain of events was her simple small choice of questioning and really looking deep into the truth about her turning into an Alicorn. Suddently all of this new responsibility new destiny is pushed onto you, and because the show is quite friendly and down easy with it, it doesn't necessarily emphasize how great of a struggle it really is to be a Princess or how Twilight situation really is if you really look deep into it. Mostly Twilight had overlooked it and generally it had been taken at face value, but that's when Vesper decided to really reflect on it while Twilight kinda accepted it as her new destiny and as her new self. This video took the liberation to go more in depth with this concept as it showed what would have happened if the show took the time to really look into how Twilight felt about this, and she herself in this video has admitted that Vesper might as well have been the manifestations of her deepest or 'darkest/doubtful' thoughts meaning it sort of confirms Twilight at least in this video, had felt that way about her becoming an Alicorn. Imagine how it would have felt like to in a way Negate your own feelings because you are afraid of letting everyone down of dissapointing them of not feeling worthy such as Vesper, and ultimately, making the entirety of your friends, the Princesses and Equestria feel if in a way they're being betrayed or abandoned in a manner that it makes you seem that you aren't prepared or want to do such a task of responsibility. You wouldn't want to let your friends down, or anyone who now looks up to you, admires you, and depends on you and sure her friends and such would have been understanding and maybe Twilight in whatever universe that's similar, that truly is her destiny but it would be like sacrificing a part of yourself to contribute to something bigger. Without Twilight, her friends or what she is to be preached about her so called destiny;Friendship, the dynasty that is Equestria would fall and we have seen that as such in the show, but still those greater lengths although achieved had many struggles in order to climb up those steps and be able to do so and accomplish those goals prior to it being a crucial part as an Empire and all of Equestria as a whole.
I wonder if part of Vesper's resentment came from the fact that she would (theoretically) outlive her friends. I think that fact alone would be the greatest source of hatred she could possibly have towards Celestia, and I think it was probably implied anyhow when she said that she "enjoyed being with her friends, nothing had to change". This was really well done - and I think this animation does address probably the most complicated moral struggle in the show and the fandom. Two of them actually - one being the question of Celestia's wisdom, and the other being the ethics of Twilight's transformation. It's the kind of question that few take the time to discuss with all the facts and explanations considered. Great work!
Note; - alicorn amulet - Discorded? - dark magic - no wings 'Vesper' had the ability to be the most magical horse yet because she didn't use The Power Of Friendship™ she failed to see true happiness in herself and had doubts of her ruler who she felt forced her on missions. I wanna hug 'Shadow' Twilight.
My theory/point of view : I see Celestia as technically writing Twilight's life like a book, she knew all along that Twilight would play by her rules as a puppet. Think about it. Celestia was the one that sent Twilight away to make friends she already saw, and picked for her technically. She was the one that made Twilight go through tests just to prove how loyal she would be. It really kinda shows me the side that Celestia indeed is manipulative and had all of it planed, the elements of Harmony even have their cutie marks for no reason at all. Celestia truly knew that Twilight would play along in her game and so she decided to write her whole life story the way she imagined. And if you remember then Twilight actually *Had* friends before she moved. Celestia just had her plan already and decided that these *friends* of hers weren't the ones she planned.
@Endie. With all due respect, you missed one important detail. Twilight may have already had friends before moving to Ponyville but she was being pretty anti social to them. In one episode, she even had a hard time remembering their names and she felt like she had to apologize to them.
@@scottpetersen672 that is true but if we look at Moondancer, they understood eachother really well. We even have an episode where Twilight goes back and Moondancer is furious with her that she left and didn't even send at LEAST a letter. It is really suspicious since the two are really smart (same level and sat together) and really similar (same hairstyle. Well, was same when they were fillies). Twilight would have at least sent a letter since they were friends. (it really seems that Celestia intensionally made Twilight forget about her old life and friends.)
That one scene where Celestia and all her friends walked out on her on the wedding rehearsal, that moment hit truly hardest for me in the show. It felt too real to life in it's own right and Vester is right, I feel like Celestia should have trusted her in that moment. We all know Twilight tends to over react a little, even Celestia knew that and before she'd support her, explain to her or try to reason with her differently but instead everyone turned on her and I part of it felt out of place. It was probably a "to drive the plot" kind of moment, but it did seem like a major issue to me. Something felt off.
Isn't it her brothers fault for not mentioning to twilight (his own sis) that he had a girlfriend and was going to get married soon? No introductions or anything?
I always felt it had something to do with Chrysalis's magic. She is a changeling and her power is to take the form of someone you care about and absorb your love for that person and turn it into magic. As a creature of deceit what better way to insure your lies are believed than if your power could make others more succeptuble to the lie. Weakening the reason of others others when thinking of the changeling.
@@pheebs7030 honestly yes it is. I mean keeping a relationship basically a secret until the point you get married always is a red flag. Twilight was just the only one who saw it because apparently no one else knew she had a freakin' brother. Bad writting for sure.
Considering her friends would normally help twilight in a time like this and the fact they currently aren’t there implies that something must of happened to them to make twilight have a breakdown.
Might just be me, but I didn't know anything about this fanfic prior to watching this and thought grey twilight was from a much more evil and cruel version of Equestria. So who knows, maybe her friends are dead(excluding pinkie?).
That's actually a good theory. Her friends have been her support most of her time because she is obviously a broken mess as how anyone else with such a massive responsibility and a meteor-sized burden would feel. Princess Cadance has her husband, child, the princesses, and her sister-in-law. Princess Celestia has Princess Luna (And perhaps some royal advisors or so I saw from the comics, unless if they don't count.) But in this timeline, Twilight supposedly has no one to help her through.
I remember when you first showed me this story you wrote up, and I immediately wanted to turn it into a Dramatic Reading. I'm so very glad to see that your original vision for this tale has finally been realized :)
I will admit this is a good story and I learn a bit more what it means like grey twilight does have a point. it is hard to trust someone who change who you are without their permission but the point she missing is the point trust is much like a leap of faith and if she’d question everything Celestia have done for her who can you really trust in the end she would be alone and filled with resentment like she showed through the debate and she would be the “tyrant” she did not want to be. But I have a question for you Dr. wolf does grey twilight really have a point or is she repeating the mistakes she had made in her adventures?
DRWolf001 I have said my theory what happened to the other Twilight. you could have the similar idea about it. when she became an alicorn she became unstabled and snapped. my main idea after this. she time traveled with Starlight to get herself to not trust Celestia. tha toke the amulet thinking she can take care of things on her own. after that her mind was to far gone and seek out her other self. the crown bit was actually test that she can make a choice rather to be a princess or not. questioning about Celestia's actions and a few answers she didn't expect to hear from her other self. as we know about the Alicorn Amulet. it may give you power. but that power, it corrupts the mind. so this story is like the grey Twilight was seeking help subconsciously. because once she acknowledged Celestia really does care for her. she give up the amulet.
So cool to see this come out! I recorded my lines years ago and it's almost nostalgic hearing this script again, especially put to such nice animation!
@@KittyKatty999 she voiced celestia and dang does she have a good impression of celestia...sadly the main thing that could have been changed wad having a better mic-which is a shame cause its an easy fix possibly asking another brony or anyone from the fandom for a better mic-i got over it but it took out of the mood a teensy bit at first
The biggest thing against Celestia, that I can really say is "proof" is something that Twilight wouldn't even know about, and it's not really that big, but was a little mean. I'd say 10/10 canonically, 8/10 vocally, 10/10 visually, 10/10 voice acting, and 10/10 story.
First let me say the animation is incredible. You guys actually made it look like a proper episode. I feel so sad for Vesper. It seems to me their was ONE difference between her & "our" Twilight, a sense of contentment. It seems Vesper reached a spot where she didn't want to advance any further & Celestia making her a princess shoved her over it. That all the stress from everything else that happened to her just...broke her. And she couldn't understand why someone she loved & claimed to love her was putting her through it all so she convinced herself Celestia was a tyrant in a desperate attempt to make it all make sense.
I always believed Celestia was a fantastic ruler of Equestria. She ruled the kingdom alone for 1000 years after Nightmare Moon was banished to the moon, and Equestria enjoyed almost complete peace and happiness in that time. She always showed such love and care for her subjects even though she could have just used her immense magical power to have anything she wanted. When we say Daybreaker in the episode “A Royal Problem” she said to Celestia “deep down you know how powerful you really are, you don’t need Luna, you can have anything you want and all you have to do is get rid of every pony who stands in your way”. To me, this shows that Celestia was always strong enough to fight off any foe who would threaten Equestria, but she may have let the need for power consume her. Just like how Anakin Skywalker let his love and devotion to his wife lead him to the dark side in an effort to save her before the dark side corrupted him, or how Gandalf warned Frodo to not give him the one ring as he would’ve used it from a desire to do good but that through him the ring would wield a power to great and terrible to imagine. If Celestia had let her desire to protect her citizens drive her to gaining power, then she may have lost herself along the way. However, Celestia found a solution to ensuring the protection of Equestria from enemies without falling to darkness; the magic of friendship. Friendship magic was both powerful and almost completely incorruptible, so Celestia sent Twilight on a path that lead to her learning all she could about this wonderful new power. Once, Twilight had proven to Celestia that she had learned all that she needed to in order to start using the magic of friendship to help ponies and protect Equestria (a milestone that was marked by her completing Star Swirl the Bearded’s spell), Celestia let Twilight fully embrace her destiny and her potential by making her an Alicorn Princess. However, Celestia eventually saw that Twilight was capable of more than even she herself could have imagined. Celestia saw that Twilight was using the magic of friendship to not only protect Equestria but to also form strong bonds of unity and understanding with other races as well. Seeing how her former student now stood on the brink of uniting several kingdoms together, Celestia did the wisest and most noble thing she could do. Celestia stepped down from the thrown of Equestria so Twilight could bring peace and friendship to the farthest corners of the world and rule as greatest leader that any kingdom could have wished for. Celestia was the Greatest ruler Equestria could have asked for and her student/successor became the greatest ruler the world could have hoped for. Celestia deserves none of the hate she gets and deserves all of the praise we can give her. Thank you for making this video!
I agree with everything you said except one thing:the magic of friendship can be corrupted. Look at Cozy glow, The friendship school made her think that friendship was an ultimate source of power and that the more friends she made,the more powerful she’d become. She may not of transformed into some evil creature representing the corrupted magic of friendship. At least from the OUTSIDE. But she did from the inside. The magic of friendship can be used for evil if you don’t understand its true potential .
While I do agree that Cozy Glow did get the idea of friendship equaling power mixed up a bit, I would argue that Cozy never actually acquired the magic of friendship at all. In mlp, it is well established that there are many different types of magic in the world and that at least a few of them are tied to emotions. This is made apparent in the season 7 episode “all bottled up” when Starlight explains to Trixie how her magic is fueled by emotion (I think the comics also cover this concept as well but I haven’t looked into that yet). Not to mention the fact that love magic is the central driving force/power in any story focusing on Cadence or the Changelings. Basically, I’m saying that there are many types of magic in the world of mlp that are either fueled by or completely composed of emotions. One of these types of magic is friendship magic. There have been multiple times in the show when immense amounts of magical power have been used from seemingly nowhere other than from friendship (Twilight defeating Sombre in the Canterlot throne room and half of all the times magic is used in the Equestria Girls series are some easy examples). This sudden surge of magical power comes from their friendship as friendship is a strong type of emotional magic. In fact, princess Celestia says in the season 3 finale that the reason Twilight became an Alicorn is because “she created new magic”. This statement is, of course, referring to the magic of friendship. The tag line of the show even tells us that in this world “friendship is magic”. Yes, I know that there is an incredibly obvious metaphor in the tag line, but that’s the beautiful thing about it. The tag line of the show is meant to be taken both metaphorically and literally just as the heroes of the story use both the metaphorical and literal magic of friendship (I was kind of blown away when first realized that). As the show goes on and we watch the heroes become closer and have their friendship strengthen over time, we are literally watching them strengthen the magic of friendship that they use to overcome obstacles and defeat villains. This also explains why some creatures outside of the mane six have demonstrated the ability to use friendship magic (like Spike and the student six for example). The long point I am trying to make here is that there are two types of friendship magic in the show: the metaphorical kind and the literal kind. While anyone is capable of the former (if they want to be), only those who have the strongest of friendships and some connection to the Elements Of Harmony or training from the mane six will likely ever be capable of the latter. Cozy Glow was trained by the mane six in the ways of metaphorical friendship magic, but she was (probably) not trained by them in the ways of literal friendship magic. Also, her twisted views on friendship and power meant that she would likely never be truly capable of either type of friendship magic. Think about it, Cozy Glow only ever tried to manipulate and/or lie to others in an attempt to become powerful. I doubt that she ever really cared about the happiness or well being of anyone other than herself. What Cozy was doing wasn’t friendship, it was something more akin to an ideology of “strength in numbers”. If she never really had any friends, then how could she have ever been capable of using the magic of friendship? She couldn’t shoot rainbow lasers (so no literal magic of friendship), and her allies probably didn’t actually care about her and likely wouldn’t have stuck their necks out too far for her if something went wrong (so no metaphorical magic of friendship either). Basically, Cozy’s own twisted ideas about power and manipulating others meant that she was never really capable of understanding or using the magic of friendship. Plus, she’s a Pegasus. It would have been more difficult for her to use the literal magic of friendship friendship since she can’t use magic (this is a bit of a mute point considering how many non magical creatures we have seen use friendship magic, but the point still stands that she doesn’t have the ability to interact directly with most forms of magical power). Take a look at Sunset Shimmer, she was shown both the metaphorical and literal power of friendship in the first EQG movie and then slowly learned more about it from Twilight and the others over the corse of the second movie. She was trained by at least one of the mane six, learned how to use the metaphorical magic of friendship, and then became capable of using the literal magic of friendship. After that, she was then able to spread the magic of friendship to the other Twilight in the third movie. Sunset came to understand and appreciate the magic of friendship in both of its forms before being able to use it and even teach it to others. In comparison, Cozy Glow developed a warped view on the magic of friendship and saw it as little more than a way to become powerful. She never actually became friends with anyone and just tried to manipulate others with a fake smile and superficial ways of being friends like friendship bracelets and empty compliments. She had no friends, was not capable of gaining friends with her twisted view, and refused or otherwise ignored everything that Twilight and the others tried to tell her about friendship. Twilight even says to her in the season 8 finale that “it’s true friendship is a powerful thing, but power isn’t why you make friends” and Cozy just brushes it aside like she knows more about friendship than even Twilight. This is the one true reason that Cozy Glow could have never been reformed, she had a twisted idea of what friendship was on a fundamental level and would have likely never listened to what Twilight and the others would’ve said to her in an effort to have her accept friendship. She thought that she already had friendship figured out and that it was Twilight and company who were incorrect. The only compassion I can make here is one of creation. If a person asks “what created the universe” then you can explain to the them the theory of the Big Bang. However, if somebody believes that the universe was created by a god or deity, then they will likely not listen to a single word said to them about the Big Bang. I am not trying to argue what created the universe here, I am just trying to make an easy comparison to demonstrate that Cozy’s differing view on friendship meant that she would have likely never listened to or accepted anything that Twilight or the others had to say. Since Tirek and Crysalis knew little to nothing about friendship or what it meant to be friends, they could have at least been taught the ways of friendship and reformed (potentially), but there was almost no way that someone like Cozy Glow could have ever been reformed. She may have had a warped view on friendship equaling power, but she never truly possessed either form of friendship magic. You can’t say that friendship magic corrupted Cozy Glow when she never had it to begin with. This was a pretty long rant, but I have very complex thoughts and feelings about this show. If anybody else has some discussion points that they would like to bring up then don’t hold back. I love talking about this show, but i’ll try to make any following comments shorter.
They missed one topic: When Luna first became Nightmare Moon. Celestia should have noticed that Luna was troubled in some way because they are sister's after all. Or did she just not care enough to notice. Or maybe Luna didn't feel that she could show that she was troubled to a pony that never was troubled because she was always beloved by everyone and maybe didn't make time with her sister because she ruled an entire kingdom pretty much on her own even though that should have been her mane priority.
I think Luna bottled up her emotions until it one day exploded in celestia's face aka nightmare moon. Plus Luna seems like the type of pony that would rather "suffer in silence" than rock the boat.
@@silverbutterfly1739 I think its both. Luna bottled everything up while Celestia didn't notice till it was too late. Like she wasn't there for her due to stuff.
This is why I like Lullaby for a Princess animation’s interpretation of what happened rather than the actual show’s. I feel like they were a bit lazy with what happened and instead could have went more in depth. Instead, it felt not as...emotional? I think that’s the right way to describe it. Lullaby for a princess had a better storytelling aspect
@@nightshroud9671 Celestia can't read Luna's head, especially since Luna wasn't telling her anything at all. If anything Nightmare Moon was the result of passive aggressiveness. Instead of being quiet and making Celestia take the hint to fix her problem, Luna should've, y'know, did open communication?? I don't even see how Celestia would laugh at her for being depressed. I get that Luna was suffering in silence but that's like getting mad at your wife and not talking about why you're mad. How else do you think the problem will get fixed if you don't open up??
"I thought I had to do it alone" is the reason I fail shit all the time. I'm TERRIFIED of asking for help. Celestia should have taught her all those years ago NOT to be scared.
Eh, from my experience sometimes you have to just do it. I'm like Twilight and Apple Jack. My parents and teachers always told me to ask for help, but I never did. This led me to dropping out of college. Wasn't till I got my first job that I finally started to learn to ask for help.
I’ve had a theory about Celestia about why she always seems to lose against the villains and that is that she’s a princess a non-combatant, her plan of attack seems to be is to overpower her opponent. For all of her victory also seems to come from outside sources (the elements of harmony and/or sister), while her loses come from when she is overpowered or outsmarted. I don’t deny that she is powerful but she doesn’t seem to know how to use her magic in a combative way unlike others have.
Actually, I think it’s a ruse. Remember in Starlight Shimmers dream when Celestia turned into Daybreaker? We saw that Celestia had the power to easily defeat Nightmare Moon, and what’s more, Celestia was able to nullify BOTH of their attack, and literally did a Full Counter and both of them. My theory is that she’s acting as if she couldn’t defeat them so the Mane 6 would get stronger and eventually take her place. I believe it was her training them to take her spot.
We seen her and Luna defeat Sombra with their own magic and not the elements. I think she used the elements as a way of sealing a villain away and she probably didn't want to fight Luna one on one. I also think she never seemed to do anything with other villains was because her ambition was to always have Twilight in charge so Twilight fighting and acting like a leader proved her case to be worthy
Welp, the grey twilight is basically every mlp fan that is pissed off at Celestia for her decisions. I will point out that Grey Twilight had valid evidence but a poor argument why Princess Twilight had a solid argument but poor evidence.
To be fair she is right and if something had gone wrong with each of these scenarios Equestria would be no more Celestia basically based the safety of Equestria on a bunch of civilians always succeeding when you think about it nevermind not making sure truly making sure that something as dangerous as the amulet or Discord or other enemies were sealed away so they could not Escape fully and when the danger was too much she set Twilight and her friends for example let me question you something what would have happened in the first two-part episode friendship is Magic if Twilight fell to her death when she slipped off the cliff her death would have been inadvertently caused by Celestia because she didn't take the threat seriously because she wanted Twilight to learn friendship never mind the fact that she would have been dooming Luna her sister to her fate of being trapped on the moon forever for her foolishness
Shadow Twilight Sparkle : But you should feel angry! you should hate her! Twilight Sparkle : Excuse you, We may be similar but you ARE NOT, Chie : Don't say it! Twilight Sparkle : ME! Shadow Twilight Sparkle : You... you... PUPPET! Boss music starts
I don't how people will view this so let me give my understanding. This grey Twilight (Grey) isn't evil, nor wants to harm nor wishes to corrupt the main twilight (Main) Grey only wants to understand why following faith in the rawest form is a good idea when in her timeline she doesn't understand why she has to go through the pain of faith. The differeance between Grey and Main is when tested by faith of friendship grey had a second thought. This isn't a bad thing, if anything Grey's points in celestia's plans and logic are accurate in all acpects, and Main answers back in a way to only deny Grey in a base understanding of why celestia's plans will be of benifit and so faithfull that it will work. Grey will never see the other side since it was lost to her, she only sees the natural logic, so then the argument breaks down from a path of faith to a path of true logic. Again, both side arn't wrong. Their are so many variables in anyone's personal plan it's hard to see the results untill they are shown, when Grey asks why doesn't Main follow her own path grey fails to understand that her view point is different and so asking that question is pointless since grey will never hear main's answer since she will never be open to it because her view point is different to mains. And when Main does show action she personally chooses to follow the faith of Celestia that Grey still can't understand. Following your own path in life means you see things how YOU want to, others can only INFLUENCE it. Defending on how YOU see things isn't the same as OTHERS react to it. This is a thing that happens, if people can't accept that then they are not open to opinion. That's the fact of Faith in friendship. You believe the other person won't screw you over because YOU believe that they won't, no need to question, no need to judge. That's the Faith of Friendship. Once that's broken, then you start to question.
that and think she was just sacred. scared of the responsibility and all that comes with it. gray didn't see the faith Celestia had for her and thought that it must be some form of control. thought all the care and love was fake. so she took what she thought was the logical choice and lashes out when anything goes against it. like main. and thus is left whimpering on the floor desperately trying to cling to a lie to cover up her fear.
Your point of view make me remember something. Remember the video of firebrand taking a royal problem too seriously? In that video, firebrand make a refrences about a justice league episod where superman from the other world where flash has die and superman change the justice league to justice lord if i not mistaken came and attack the real world? And there superman reveal that he always has that thought. Firebrand make that refrences to the day breaker. What if main twilight has all this thought that grey twlight have in a back of her mind but she believe in celestia more then grey twilight have and accept her destiny. Like he say for superman it was the death of flash but celestia AND twilight who knows what could it be. Well like i say its just a thought.
Orsonfoe -- something happened that caused grey Twi to hurt very badly, even if its true that Celestia loves her, grey Twi no longer trusts it. I also suspect that she is more afraid of baseless hope (faith) for understandable reasons= it cost her dearly. And the primary cast are completely impotent to understand it as they don’t think the same way, and don’t hurt the same way.
9:10 "If Celestia had dealt with the problem using magical aggression without due process, that's no better than being a bully or tyrant." Cozy Glow, Chrysalis and Tirek have furiously entered the chat. But honestly, great work. Sometimes I get the feeling that the writers had no real plan or clue how to write Celestia, or even if it was worth analysing for that reason. Yet this animation reminded me of how much potential the early seasons of FiM had.
TL;DR: fate is a bitch, both Twi's are valid, except Gray's forcefulness Honestly I think this is a great animation, but Vesper/Alt-Twi has a genuine point. This is a version of twilight that didn't want more, and found the concept of destiny to be crushing. The line that really gets me is when Celestia says she wanted Twi to be as great as she could be because it was her destiny, and all I could think was Vesper screaming that she didn't want this, that she wanted to make her own destiny, and that Celestia shouldn't get to decide.
Well I don’t think Celestia knew exactly what would happen she probably had a guess, but I don’t think she entirely knew what would happen. I have a theory about the Allicorn dimension and that Celestia rules over it and is teleported there to meet upcoming Allicorns. We just assume she knew everything, but how could she have been there at that exact moment to meet Twilight.
I'd imagine that when she stepped through the Sombra door, she never came out. This alternate dimension is the one where she didn't have the courage to face her greatest fear. She thought sun horse hated her for failing the test, which is what we see in Twilight's vision. Hence the glowy sombra eyes.
That’s.....actually a possibility, and could explain how this alternate dimension is still relatively similar. Although it wouldn’t explain why the Castle of the Two Sisters isn’t in ruin
This makes a lot of sence actually and it makes me really sad.Since if this is correct she and spike are basically trapped in a horror demention whilst her freinds are being killed or inslaved.
The thing I love so much about this is that Grey Twilight does make very good points, this debate is very realistic when it does come to the real world.
I love the take on Celestia’s role and decisions as a ruler, and how those decisions can be judged or lauded in various lights. Is she a benevolent autocrat, a tyrannical despot, a fool-hearty inept idealist that depended too much on luck and chance, or a strategist, working with what she had and strategically gambling her way to success? It could be any of these, and its an honestly interesting way to see her and her actions as a ruler
@@darkwhispersstories47 it basically is. Shining armor or big Macs flanks have more power, besides it can't do anything without a host. Basically a piece of junk.
This made me feel like I was watching a full length episode again. Helps fill a bit of the hole left in the heart after losing the show, I’m very grateful.
The definition of good varies between people to people. Having the power to overcome your inner darkness/evil and emerge stronger for it, I think is more rewarding.
Well, this was certainly a very interesting turn of events. Talk about a twist of fate, I feel sorry for Vesper/Twilight. Seeing how much pain and suffering she went through, leading to the assumption that Celestia ruined her life was simply heartbreaking. In any case, this was a very interesting MLP video. All of you who took part in this project, I applaud for all your efforts. Really, awesome job everyone!
SpacialRend7 -- who knows? Maybe Vesper was happy with friends learning and stability and never really wanted to be a princess, especially against her wishes (which is a violation of trust isn’t it, not very friendly?) . By definition that sounds like ruination to me. And I think it’s more heart breaking that she is even more alone than she though as prime Twi doesn’t care about what happens to her just that she should have more faith....
This is generally my take on things, Celestia put Twi and friends in real danger, they almost got killed many times, it was luck and some level of skill that got them out of things, but it wasn't that Celestia was lazy, that she was "testing" them so much as putting trust in Twi and friends, hoping for the best, because in the end, Celestia is not as powerful as Twi may think. She is weakened from 1000 years of hardship, stress, and the fact she has had to raise the sun and moon, the emotional and magical toll on her body leaving her very weak, Luna still wasn't at full power after being brought back either, needing time to gain her energy back to where it was a pre-banishment, and Cadence was still really young and not as powerful as her aunts. Which is why I'd disagree slightly with the whole Sombra thing, Celestia actively told her it was for her and her alone to do the task asked of her, it was lain out pretty clear Celestia wanted Twi to keep what she was doing secret and do it alone, the others were there to provide more moral and social support, to keep the Crystal ponies distracted. Celestia and Luna didn't exactly beat Sombra on their own, they still where users of the EoH at the time, Sombra was more of a threat as a whole than he would have been as a shade, as he was the one that made the Crystal Empire disappear if the Royal Sisters are to be believed. If Twi failed, the mane 6, Cadence, and Shining Armor, as well as the Crystal Empire would have been lost, enslaved, or worse. Celestia and Luna wouldn't have bested him as easily as they did the first time around, the emotional and mental burden would weigh on Celestia and the casualties would be high, as it would turn into a war, and the mental state of the Mane 6, Spike, Cadence, and Shining armor would be worse for wear even if they were freed from being slaves. The price would have been heavy if Sombra won, as it was established that the Crystal Empire was a hub of great power, magical and emotional, that could taint the rest of Equestria. But if the only ponies able to resist and possibly stop Sombra were forced to be slaves or even killed, something similar to the Sombraverse may be the only answer, and it was the last resort, not first.
Seval Alrik That’s what I thought as well, Sombra was a bigger threat than anyone actually gives him credit for, if it wasn’t for Spike everyone would’ve probably been doomed, and Sombra would’ve had some strong slaves to work with as well
@@hyperdreamer9483 Yeah, exactly, Sombra was a larger threat than he was made out to be, and him winning would have been bad since it was established The Crystal Empire was a major hub for positive energy, and if corrupted, it would corrupt the rest of the worlds energy. It's the one point when I really say Celestia took the largest Risk, with trusting DIscord to deal with Tirek being secondary. Not that she has ever been a bad leader, she has made questionable choices, and done questionable things to keep power and "peace" for the ~1000+ years she has ruled. I am sure the Younger Celestia had done tons of terrible and shameful things to keep power and peace, like abusing the EoH to banish and basically torture entities, to make Equestria appear to be a Utopia, but the one we see in the show has been tempered a lot more, and more level headed.
one piece i'd like to add for the Discord segment Technically Discord was a literal key part in helping to defeat Tirek, oh sure he still betrayed everyone, but prior to that he was making genuine attempts to be a good friend, outside of the Blue Flu incident, Discord actually highlighted a bunch of events from the book of friendship that clued Twilight and her friends on how they could open the box the Tree of Harmony created. also GOOD LORD THAT REVEAL! also also loved this, great job to everyone who worked on this project
@@saphiriathebluedragonknight375 If Discord Tried to actually defeat Tirek it will litterally be over in 3...4 sec. His magic is Too strong and Chaotic fot Tirek to take when he is weak it took him like the entire strenght of equestria to even attempt to contain discord magic
Yeah but really they should have at least sent some back up with him as moral support. Because lets face it they never really gave Discord a reason not to betray them plus he is a trickster in nature, you never trust a trickster as they are only ever on their own side. They make plans within plans within plans, and if you somehow figure out those plans you find out they have seven other plans within those plans all set to go.
that and discord helps the show, show that friendship is not easy. Most shows about making friend have any sort of problem just wrap up and very one gets along one hundred percent. this show does not and discord shows that. all the other characters merely tolerated him and he knew that, which is why he came off more mean spirited prankster with the others. also why Tirek's little speech about false friends being imprisonment and such was abled to swayed discord.
Even though Discord is nigh omnipotent and effortlessly defeat Tirek then Twilight and her friends what mystery that Tree of Harmony is trying to give to her. To find out what’s Twilight’s purpose.
A wonderful answer to the "is Celestia is a manipulating tyrant?" question. Though I myself always interpreted Twilight's as something coming from within Twilight herself, rather than Celestia casting a "Turn Into Alicorn" spell. She may have guided Twilight down the path, but I believe only Twilight is ultimately the source of her ascension. Extra kudus for adressing the speciest assumption on the dragon part in particular. It's is something I so rarely see addressed, especially since the dragon migration, where an entire horde flies across the entire width of Equestria without incident, shows that dragons have no desire to go out and harm ponies.
Two things I noticed Vesper was forgetting: One is that being a leader is gonna leave you in a constant position of risky decision making, and two is the fact that Celestia, of all people, was the one who admitted to Twilight that she was afraid that she wouldn't need her anymore. (Since Vesper is so upset that Celestia "ruined" her life as being just her student.)
Agreed. And even in the flashback of when Celestia was pacing back and forth in the throne room she was worried about Twilight, in my opinion she was worrying about Twilight like she was her own daughter. Being a ruler is hard and even when the hardest of battles comes up you have to think fast and what is best for the safety of a kingdom and those who you serve to protect as their ruler.
@@celestiafanforever That is another good point. Celestia did spend over a thousand years ruling alone, so she would probably be more on edge about making decisions that may or may not change those people's lives. She's spent well over a millennia to become as good as she is, and all that while keeping up a front for her subjects so they can go on about their lives like normal. If the ruler is happy, then the people have no cause for alarm. P.S.: Also, before anyone brings up the possibility that Vesper started to go downhill before what Celestia had to say in Celestial Advice, Celestia did reassure her that she was still her student right after she got turned into an alicorn back in Magical Mystery Cure, the only difference being that Twilight was now a leader-in-the-making and a teacher to Celestia as well.
@@frenchiesottises8193 she did rule a thousand years by herself which I agree with what you said about her being more on edge. Though she missed Luna she knew that maybe she would get Luna back. She just had to kept their subjects safe that day even if it meant losing the only family member she had.
@@celestiafanforever And I don't blame her for making such a risky decision. Sure, she can rule by herself just fine, but having two rulers is far better than having the one. A prime example of this is the fact that Luna is the only one who can travel from dream to dream and has a degree of control over said dreams, effectively putting a stop to possible trauma and damage to the victim's psyche. Also, Luna's Celestia's little sister. It was obvious that she would make such a risky gamble. You could make the argument that it was selfish of her to do it, but it can be countered by the fact that Celestia loves Luna and ruling alone knowing she's the one who banished her would, understandably, drive her crazy. She even has to carry the burden that she didn't bother to address Luna's jealousy. She knew if she did, Luna wouldn't have spent all those years in the moon. A fault on her end, yes, but Celestia is also not perfect. It's probably also why she's always seen trying to get Twilight, someone who is very by the book, to let loose a little. Who isn't to say that Luna's banishment made Celestia realized that she was too cold towards those she interacted with? She was taught under Starswirl after all, and we all know how he was when he returned.
@@frenchiesottises8193 if only starswirl knew what had became of Luna then I guess he might be disappointed in her since he was her teacher. But also happy to see that Luna returned to her sister's side. For Pete's sake he said "once a villain always a villain" and yet there is Luna and Discord, one In which fell into darkness caused by jealousy and the other just wanted to turn all of Equestria upside down both turned good.
Okay, first off: Ow, Alt-Twilight cut her own wings off! That's disturbing, horrible and I can see where she's coming from. Second: this was an enjoyable debate. It's like watching a flame war between others and yourself. Looking at Alt-twilight reminds me of myself when I first saw the season 3 finale. I absolutely hated it with a passion and thought this was the end of what I thought was a great show because I thought they just said 'screw it' and slapped wings on Twilight and called her princess. I still don't like the season 3 finale for obvious reasons, but I don't want to reopen past wounds. But, what's done is done. As for Celestia, I'm on Alt-twilight's side on this. She should've asked her how she felt instead of doing nothing and gave her a scroll without telling her beforehand if it would cause trouble. But, again, what's done is done. Honestly, this was engaging and I loved every minute of it. Still felt bad for Alt-twilight, though.
Dashzilla93 -- this work brings up two things- one, that “destined for more” some how only means being a princess, and two, that Twilight Sparkle is not an inspiration nor a role model to follow because she doesn’t care what’s been done to her or what it’s cost her because “friendship” I detested season 3 as well and I didn’t buy into it ever since- and this apathy and inconsideration and narrow mindedness has merely proven to me that the show dropped from an inspiration to merely idea fodder. I suspect alt twi simply loved what she had and primary Twi by her own admission doesn’t care as long as she has the same company. And I doubt alt Twi will ever be able to forgive and let go what’s been done to her, merely eventually remove herself from the reminders and move on as best she can. Because I think she’s found something that hurts her even more than Celestia- primary Twi who doesn’t care, and clearly no one took the time to listen and to accept that can never meant should or must. So alt Twi feels all the more alone, and friendship seems all the more fake because of the inconsistencies and ideal over reason pushing.
Dashzilla93 Agreed with you on Dark Beast Twilight’s view. What Cell(Celestia/Tia) did destroyed millions of innocent people that don’t deserve to be hurt or dead because of person’s cruel and heinous act that would rock the entire planet forever and led to mass hatred permanently.
The Dark Twilight is essentially her doubts, fears, and flaws personified (in a way). She's also a prime example of what happens when you let your resentment and hatred control and consume you, letting it take over and corrupt everything you stand for and believe in
I love how this project was portrayed. It was engaging in the way of a fanfic yet intriguing in the way of a theory/review. All the animation was amazing and the the voice acting was really impressive! I really appreciate the time y’all put into this.
I wish Sunset Shimmer would've still been included in the animated version like she was in the fanfic. Nevertheless, this is a masterpiece. Both the animation and the voice were done so well!
I have always been a big fan of the idea that Twilight views Celestia as a second mom and Celestia sees Twilight as a surrogate daughter. That moment when Celestia and Twilight just have a brief heart to heart over the Princess issue feels like what I wanted to see yet so authentic.
... I literally just found this and I have no words for how good this is... the animation is accurate, the story is written beautifully, and the voice acting was so well done, Twilight's crying almost drove me to tears... I have only encountered one other piece of fan media that was so well done as the original, I would believe the fan-made story was actually part of that universe... amazing job to this team, I loved this
This was such a miraculous and spectacular animation i love it, everyone did such a grand and phenomenal job major props and kudos to you all for giving us this masterpiece, this was a real joy to watch!!!....although i feel bad for Vesper.
16:51 Technically that was Cerberus' fault since tirek escaped when Cerberus left his post. How can prisoners be kept under control if you don't have guards to ensure that they don't try to escape
Very nice. Though perhaps for me, it still feels like Luna continually gets the shaft. Celestia says they’d rule together as sisters, all the while planning to put Twilight in charge while Luna is stuck playing dream psychiatrist. How is that fair? That instead of using her thousand years of experience ruling Equestria to teach her younger sister how to rule, Celestia instead focuses her efforts on raising her favorite student. To me the last season never sat well. Luna spends a thousand years imprisoned, and only spends a morning actually in the role of leader. And that was thanks to Starlight. Celestia never bothered to help Luna learn what was as needed to be a ruler. Luna was just relegated to a support role and nothing more. Even Cadence gets to rule the Crystal Empire. But Luna? She’s basically the night security guard. If nothing else, Celestia’s real folly was never helping her own sister achieve her own destiny.
i would like to question that: we don't know what celestia does all the time. thanks to a royal problem we have a rough idea of what a typical day for her looks like, but ruling is more then typical days. is luna not also often there when there's a crisis? then there's the difference between the two. celestia appears to be quite in her element in a crowd. luna not so much. we see her enjoy her time during nightmare night, but that's in just a small village, would she thrive as a public face? or does she instead thrive while helping people in dreams? a place where she finds appreciation on a very personal level, the thing she lacked before which was so bad she turned evil for it. they could share the day duty, it would make celestia's life easier. yet she doesn't ask her. i think because she knows it's not what would make her happy. i think luna has followed her own destiny. the dream psychiatrist of the land, a role she seems born for, a role in which she is happy. (also allow me to thank you for a provocative statement which got me out of the mind broken state the animation left me in)
@@vinx.909 Thing is we never see anyone appreciate what Luna does. Not even Celestia until she had to be in that position. Celestia admitting how lonely that is as Luna has to do it every single night, always by herself. There's no evidence suggesting anyone appreciates Luna for seeing to their mental well being while they're asleep. After all, how many can completely recount what happens in a dream? And while certainly Luna hasn't done well with crowds, that only seems to be when she's by herself and it being an important job. While I again state that she was never taught how to perform those same tasks from Celestia. Luna was perfectly fine during a Canterlot Wedding. It's only when she's thrust into a task she's not prepared for that Luna bends under the pressure. Something easily remedied had she been given tutelage on these matters. I would also say that Luna's not entirely happy there. Again, she was promised by Celestia that they'd rule together, yet Luna is relegated to the background. So when Luna was put into the spotlight for a day, no other pony really knew how to proceed aside from just treating her as they do Celestia. Instead of a regent or advisor that could come and help Luna with the day's schedule and ease her into how Celestia handles all these tasks and meetings, Luna had to go in blind and unprepared, which only added to her stress. We also saw before how Luna would punish herself nightly with the Tantabus for her role as Nightmare Moon. Which was still rather excessive. And yet Luna's own state of mind was something Celestia didn't notice. Celestia didn't know or couldn't see how much her own sister was hurting. From which we could gather as meaning that they don't spend all that much time interacting with each other, despite having been apart for so long. There's also something else. Despite the seeming importance of Luna's role, helping ponies and such in their dreams for their mental health, who was in charge of that for the millennium that Luna was banished to the Moon? Apparently no one since Celestia only took up the task of raising/lowering the sun and moon herself, and there was no group of Unicorns or such who was tasked to take up Luna's job as dream doctor. And yet Equestria still got along just fine without Luna's assistance in their subconscious. Looking at it like that, whether or not Luna was around for that job, everything still proceeded along without any major issues on the part of the populace. So how important is Luna's literal dream job if there were no negative repercussions during her absence? Sure Luna says she had failed somepony once before, but shouldn't she have instead alluded to failing so many ponies during her imprisonment? Yet no such thing is brought up by anyone. Not even Celestia. Plus there was the episode where Twilight was in charge while Luna and Celestia went on vacation. Luna wasn't doing any dream chasing during that time. Which just lessens the importance of the task itself. And if it's not fundamentally necessary for her to do all the time, then Luna should have a great deal of time to rule alongside Celestia and learn how to govern the nation. Yet the only time the two are ever in the same room is when a special political event is happening or it's some emergency. It's pretty much never to just hang out and lead the country. Also np.
@@darthgeist3966 on the topic of being appreciated: just yesterday i rewatched "For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils", if that and "Sleepless in Ponyville" are anything to go by then people are appreciative of luna. i saw the problem in "a royal problem" as the conflict between the sisters where it's just celestia not taking luna's daily struggles seriously. on the topic of doing well in crowds: drawing of personal experience (which may vary wildly between people of course) i'd say that practice may not do a damned thing. while she does sometimes deal with crowds this may be because she knows when she has to appear and can prepare herself. another point could also be that she can appear in crowds, but it's tiring for her. this could be practiced to be less tiring, but if one isn't made for the public spotlight should they be forced into it? on the topic of not really being happy: this looks are just speculation not based on anything. not everyone wants to be in the foreground. on the topic of celestia not paying enough attention to luna: this could be rather damning, yet once more my personal experience forces me to forgive her for that point. i suffered from yearly depression for 8 years while living and interacting with my very attentive parents, yet they didn't notice it. when you try to keep something hidden you'd be surprised what you can get away with. luna didn't let celestia know in any way about the tantabus, not even letter her know that she released. can celestia be blamed for being in the dark on something she was deliberately kept in the dark about? on the topic of luna's job not being mandatory: 100% correct. yet i don't know what this would argue for. how many years did humanity not have psychiatrists yet did survive? does that mean that it's not a good thing to have? same with music, yet does that mean that musicians aren't following their own path by being musicians while doing something not strictly mandatory? on the topic of luna having time left next to protecting dreams to rule: i'd argue that she does, but this requires some speculation so let me explain. first we see luna anything a crisis citation is in progress. in these cases they seem to clearly share the roll of the ruler. i would assume this means that that this isn't just for crisis's we see but also big events that don't happen in an episode. secondly the really speculative one: i'd argue that luna does aid in the official daily routine, but in the background. i base this of two things: the royal sisters have breakfast/dinner together. of course in a royal problem not a lot is discussed, yet they both show up even though they are both exhausted, i'd think this implies a strong routine. i'd think that this would normally be a time when they discuss problems. this is also based of how luna could survive town hall seemingly without problems other then it draining her which i think shows that she is equipped for it. i would argue that luna and celestia discus important topics during their shared meals. but like i said, this is speculation. another point that can be brought up is that celestia is great at helping others reach their potential. this is of course most obvious in twilight, but i'd argue that she has done the same for luna. allowing her to start her dreamwalking and take less or potentially no load of celestia because it's helping luna reach a place where she's happiest and flourishes. now you definitely bring up good points. i can see where you are coming from and some of your points where definitely hard to have an argument against. i just think there's a more positive view that can also be taken, much like in the very animation we are discussing under, and i think the more positive view also has merit.
@@peterbutler1232 i'd say that's a definite yes. in the beginning of the end Luna is immediately talking about what she wishes to do (th-cam.com/video/lwVqzyFb8kA/w-d-xo.html), clearly having made some plans for what she wanted to do once she retired. i don't think she'd do that if she didn't want to retire.
Watching this with everything in mind after the show and everything you can really see how this could have played out in the show. There is a lot of foreshadowing that starts to appear as Celestia and Luna prepare to step down by the end of the show to make way for a new ruler, which is Twilight. You can really see the pain she could possibly be feeling inside, doubting herself and all she is worth. Feeling alone and afraid despite having friends. These are real struggles that she faces and it only becomes more apparent when you closely analyze everything the show has to offer. Thank you to the artists and everyone who worked on this. It's an amazing project and I really like the take that you all put on to this.
Y'know, even though this is just fanfiction, I felt a strange sense of...closure from this. Though I was never one to think that Celestia was evil or incompetent, you couldn't help but wonder why she did things the way she did. But this, was good. Thank you all for making this.
Over all a nicely written counter argument to anti-Celestia sentiments with a strong emotional through line. I do have major quibble however. When Twilight was sent to the Crystal empire she didn't just decide entirely of her own accord that she was meant to perform that test without the help of her friends. Celestia specifically told her _"...in the end, it must be you and you alone who ultimately assists Princess Cadance and Shining Armor in doing what needs to be done to protect the Empire."_ It also seems unlikely Twilight misinterpretated those instructions as Celestia later conceded, _"Far better that I have a student who understands the meaning of self-sacrifice than one who only looks out for her own best interests."_ That wasn't the last time Celestia would try to drive wedge between Twilight and her friends either, as later when she entrusted her with safeguarding all of the alicorn magic from Tirek, she again told Twilight not tell her friends, ostensibly for their own protection, but inadvertently putting them in even more danger instead. I think maybe both examples illustrate what might be Celestia's TRUE folly, that for all her age and wisdom she's never really understood what friendship is. It's why she couldn't protect Luna from falling to darkness, it's why her own connection to the Elements of Harmony was broken, and it's why Twilight (not to mention Sunset before her) as her student had such a poor grasp of friendship before going to Ponyville because it was a subject Celestia was ill-suited to teach her. As further example of Celestia's inability to understand the true meaning of friendship. When she sought to have Discord reformed, it was never because she thought he deserved a second chance, but in her own explicate words because _"I have use for Discord's magic, if it can be reformed to serve good instead of evil."_ I don't think Celestia is a tyrant or incompetent, just an old and lonely pony isolated from the world by the burden of her own authority. She might do a better job of faking it, but her way of thinking is just as archaic and out of touch as Luna's. I think that's maybe why she decided to step down and pass the crown to Twilight, a new pony to guide future generations.
I don't know why but this theory should have been true because friendship is not something you can learn in class you need to go outside and meet new people to make friends.
I love the way your animation captures the moral grey areas and moral questions by showing that in certain situations Celestia could be seen as neglectful but then again she could be seen as someone who looks at the bigger picture and sees the final outcome and tries to make sure that it is as positive as possible and sometimes that may seem like she is dismissive but in really she is simply focusing in the future. I think personally that perhaps as much as ‘ Vesper ‘ adored Celestia (probably as much as our Twilight) she maybe didn’t REALLY want to be an alicorn in might have been more of a childish fantasy, as I’m sure many fillies have, rather than a true hearts desire. This is probably why she was so upset at becoming an alicorn. Our Twilight and Vesper probably had SLIGHTLY different true hearts desires fundamentally. Another thing I love is the fact that you show just how deeply affected a person can be when something is done to them without consent as seen by the fact that out of every question, point and argument made during Twilight and Vesper’s debate Vesper chooses specifically to ask about being turned into an alicorn without consent not to mention the fact that she literally CUT off her wings. In the case of our Twilight she was okay with it because that was what she would have wanted if given the choice but to Vesper she didn’t give her consent to be altered permanently so since Celestia didn’t ask that must mean she doesn’t care when in truth she did it cause she thought it would make Vesper happy. Also Vesper and Twilight both make good points about trust. As a friend you don’t need to have a reason to trust your friend you just do cause trust is apart of friendship. That being said blindly following leaders is not healthy. Celestia wasn’t wrong in extending trust to discord but she should have done it when the ENTIRE fate of Equestria wasn’t in danger especially considering Discord at that point had not exactly proven himself loyal to Equestria. At that point he had presented himself as a chaotic neutral observant party and not a real loyal friend except perhaps with his behavior towards Fluttershy. The risk in that case was simply greater than the supposed reward. Discord probably would not have been hurt if he wasn’t chosen.
@@Arthus850 Vesper is somewhat right in her criticisms of Celestia's failures, but Twilight is right in that they're just that... mistakes. Never out of lack of concern for Twilight.
Maybe, but she's clearly blinded by her disilusionment and hatred. She can't accept that Celestia may have truly cared for her even if her intentions were not desirable.
Randy Williams -- I suspect that in grey’s case it hasn’t been made right not because she’s overly focused on bitterness but rather it can’t be made right, not in the way she would wish as it was made impossible by the alicornation- that occurring without council or consent shattered grey’s faith and took away what she loved- she did thirst for more, and she was not okay with being made to have more “earned” or not, not at the cost of her peace.
I think that one of the main points that grey twilight forgot to mention is immortality. Yes she mentioned about being turned into a princess intentional from Celestia...but what she said here 26:43 I'm not sure, the princess of friendship doesn't need alicorn magic to become more powerful and to ”reach their full potential” Friendship is something that doesn't need power but the power is from the friends themselves. Grey twilight sees immortality as a way to not live forever, but the heartache of losing her friends someday and doesn't want to see it. Which is the reason she cut her wings off...
"Neither of us are gaining ground here" No, no no you're not gaining ground here twilight. Two examples have been shown and two could have been resolved by celestia being more involved at that point.
For Luna... No? She knew she could not beat her‚ and that the Elements were the only solution. So she sent the six ponies with a growing friendship that could use them. Litterally the best move. Her being there could have made Luna lash out and kill the mane 6 before they could use the Elements. With the dragon‚ she likely could have killed it‚ or whatever‚ and what? Spark a war with the dragon kingdom? Nobody wants that. Her being a diplomat would be nmore realistic‚ but then again why? The dragon was not aggressive‚ he only wanted to be left alone‚ so more of a friendship problem than anything. And Celestia has a lot of things to do‚ as seen in a Royal Problem. Things that Twilight is not fit to accomplish‚ such as discussing with aristocrats and taking decisions for the kingdom. She again took the best decision by letting the friendship specialist take care of the friendship problem and herself to take care of the royal one.
@@benikujaku4567 Actually Celestia was lucky NMM didn't decide to kill the Mane 6 directly when they were going to find the Elements. She was clearly holding back and tried to scare the girls off, if she wasn't messing around then most likely the girls would be dead before the journey even began.
@@nightshroud9671 Well‚ yeah. This is exactly why it was necessary to make the ponies look harmless. If herself or an army was there‚ Nightmare Moon would have just blasted everyone without waiting
The turning twilight into an alicorn without asking question reminded me of a quote from a story I can't quite remember "Those best suited for power are those that don't want it"
Being a little late, but: The alternative Twilight seems to exhibit symptoms resemble PTSD (Almost sure she suffer actual PTSD, but I am not a psychiatrist and even if I was we didn't see enough for a sure verdict) and that actually make her resentment for Celestia much more understandable. Even if each of the events can be justified, Twilight was put in a place where she was responsible for all of Equestria, and was put in peril multiple times a year for several years in a row. Even if she thought she ready, even if she wanted it, Celestia should not have let her be in this position so often. And if she had to because Celestia could not solve it or send anyone else, that is an evidence for incompetency. I also think that something called personal example would be important here, although to be fair we don't really know what happened before season 1 so maybe Twilight already had enough examples from Celestia and Celestia wanted her to learn from other ponies as well? Now, I will keep the trend of being more fair. Each season of the show had to have some high level stakes. After the first episode showing Nightmare Moon, the stakes couldn't be lowered later on. It would also force Twilight and her friends to be the main solution, since they are the main characters. In addition, while in the real world Twilight should visit a therapist, I understand why the show didn't handle this (and if it had, I am 60% sure it would have butchered it, and I might still be optimistic here). So given all of this, the video did show me Celestia in a new light. I disagree with her choices, but I can see a version where they can be justified within the format. The turning to Alicorn is worse if it was Celestia doing, but it was Twilight spell, powered by the Elements of Harmony that done it in my opinion. The turning to a princess is Celestia doing and is a little jarring, but I guess it might be within the allowance a show of this nature should be allowed. I also thing that there was a possibility the show would have end with this episode, and it is kinda fitting for a possible final - Twilight proved herself and start new kind of life. To summary, I still believe Celestia was wrong, but mostly when analyzing it using real world logic rather than in world one. However, everything I said? That true about the main Celestia. The question whether alternative Celestia did or didn't love her Twilight is irrelevant. The only reason I give main Celestia slack is that her plan worked. Success is not a justification on its on, but it let me believe that she might've jumped in to help had something happened. I can believe she listened to and understood main Twilight, seeing that main Twilight was willing and ready. Alternative Twilight wasn't. So while it doesn't relate to whether alternative Celestia should rules, it means that she failed alternative Twilight at the very least.
@Isabella Burns if you look closely it does look like shes glaring at first, but after she blinks she gives a softer look, like shes thinking: "Whats going on he- oh...its you..." But not in an angry tone, more of a "I know you don't like me, but that doesn't mean we can't be civil about it." kind of look.
This is beautifully animated and acted. The story is very powerful! The gray Twilight reminds me of so many people who can only see their own pain. Fantastic job to everyone involved. I was near tears and watched twice already.
Seeing a version of Twilight that angry and broken tore out my heart. Amazing animation and voicework, and generally an entertaining story, even if the twist was a bit obvious. Still, fanwork or not, real or not, enjoyable or not, proper dimension or not, as a dedicated Twilight Sparkle fan I feel obligated to say: Never hurt my purple angel like that again OR I WILL END YOUR F%$&ING WORLD!!
Ok who that mysterious Pony talking to Princess Twilight Sparkle? Because i not going by that name so she a bad pony right there i call her ??? for now.
This really shows being a perfectionist. Especially from childhood. Its exhausting your concious and yourself fight over and over about right and wrong and how to live your life instead of being a puppet. Learning to accept ut and grow from it or letting it destroy you. Letting go of such a cycle and living life completely knew although its hardand scary. This video literally represents my childhood and life omg..
The moment when Ventus’s theme from Kingdom Hearts played when Celestia began talking to “Vesper” was like a huge hit there. KH’s themes are always beautiful...
I feel like Celestia’s rule is somewhat contradictory. By all accounts, she is an absolute monarch, or is functionally in diarchy with Luna, although it appears Luna tends to deal with more personal or I suppose one could call it spiritual affairs, while Celestia deals with the temporal, the governing of Equestria. However, we never see her act as an absolute monarch, but more like a constitutional one. She doesn’t possess any kind of restrictions or codifications of her power, nor any governing body which she would appoint, but we never see her dealing with complexities of single-handedly governing a nation, more dealing with public events, audiences, charity, or perhaps intervening more directly when necessary, while Equestria seems to be almost autonomously governed, with local governments dealing with most affairs, such as we see with Ponyville or Manehatten. It’s honestly quite strange, and would imply Celestia’s style of governing is equivalent to the real-life ideological positions of Integralism, or at least possessing very similar ideological qualities.
Phillip Perhaps, but that would emphasis delegation, or self-restriction. It’s the only example we see of such regulation and I’m quite sure Celestia if she so choose could probably overrule it
CanadianPrince We know Twilight sure as hell overruled it. “I’m going to create my own institution in order to bypass the national laws and standards applied to all schools to ensure the safety and education of students” seems like the epitome of corruption of power, regardless of Neighsay’s bigotry.
Christopher Pratt Technically she did so was Celestia backing her meaning the action isn’t as legally dubious as one might think, and Neighsay did eventually come around
@@Livetwo8 i mean the Monarchi backed up Her claims of The school need to act out of the System in order to be functional. And lets be real here If it was for Laws to be the same as ours Neightsay would have ben removed because of Speciesm, almost causing world war ponies,and Indoctronation of Racism and Bigotry in young ponies Minds (pretty much what Celestia said in the same Episode. NO pony is allowed to do that) The topic of Friendship is outside of the Laws and Celestia saw reasons to it. Neightsay didnt even act according to the law or even took it with the rest of his own Council he acted soly on his own
"we never see her dealing with complexities of single-handedly governing a nation" I think that's because it would be boring, rather than because that's not one of her responsibilities.
27:20 Gray Twilight: "Why did you make everything change?" Me: Because nothing can be the same forever and Celestia saw your potential. She may not be a goddess,but she did what she did in order to protect her subjects,her sister and you.
To be fair, I feel like a lot of the decisions Celestia put Twilight through up to the Season 3 finale were mainly due to the fact that Nightmare Moon and Discord could only really be defeated with the Elements of Harmony, something she had lost her connection to and thus needed whoever reconnected them to help her (though she could’ve helped Twilight a bit more when it looked like Discord had won). Other events like the wedding and Sombra were more unexpected. However, her attitude towards Twilight tended to shift a lot- from being almost motherly to being rude (her letter in the premier) to downright turning her back on Twilight way too quickly during the wedding episode. Those I can overlook, though. A lot of have those moments, after all. What I can’t overlook is the season 3 finale itself. It was pretty much completely set up by Celestia to test Twilight in becoming the Princess of Friendship by...fixing her friends’ cutie marks, which are by no means related to friendship but talent? If anything, Princess of Magic would’ve been a proper titled and it STILL would’ve been contested by later characters like Starlight Glimmer. Plus, considering what we’ve seen before and what happened in later seasons, that seems like a pretty stupid test in comparison. If you’re gonna have Twilight prove she’s ready, this is more of a situation where you let something REAL prove it to you. On top of even that, Twilight didn’t have any choice in the matter. It was thrust onto her like some kind of predetermined destiny. That’s a good way of making her possibly feel like her whole life was decided for her, that her original dreams are nothing, even if her dreams did match up to becoming a princess. Even Discord’s scheme in Season 9 was more real than that, at least up until the point he HAD to reveal it because the villains became too strong. If it were me, and this is a stretch, I would’ve honestly written it something like this: I would’ve had Celestia look back on her defeat during the wedding and fearing she lost her combat edge over the years (whether true or not). Then, as an apology to Twilight and to ask a favor of her, she takes her student aside and tells her that the time has come for there to be a fourth alicorn, one who can succeed where she fears she and Luna might fail. However, only a pony who has overcome a great obstacle without falling down a path of darkness (such as Discord’s corruption) will react to the ancient spell, and she feels that Twilight is one such pony. She then asks Twilight if she would accept this responsibility, and Twilight accepts, becoming an alicorn based on her own choice. The series largely continues as normal, but Twilight is avoided or even feared by other ponies due to being a an alicorn- a pony known to be the most powerful race- and it makes her feel, but she vows to hold her head high. Cue Magical Mystery Cure, and it’s where Ponyville flocks to Twilight not just as a hero or leader of the Mane 6, but their leader. This prompts Celestia to once again take Twilight aside and tell her of her accomplishments, along with the support she gained from the other ponies. She then tells Twilight that it is clear to her that while Twilight’s current status as a common alicorn is more than enough for Equestrian to be safe, everything she’s done seems becoming of a full-blown leader of Equestria. Twilight fears not being able to shoulder the responsibility of being a princess, but when Celestia asks her her thoughts, she makes the request that her friends will be allowed to help her. Celestia laughs and tells her she wouldn’t dream of it, for Twilight has more than earned the title of Princess of Friendship. Cue Twilight’s coronation, and the rest of the series continues largely as normal. That aside, this was good at showing both sides of the argument. I used to hold something of an anti-Celestia stance, but that was back when I first joined the fandom. I’ve since left it, watched a few more episodes just to see how the series was doing, and I can’t help but see how they given Celestia much more personality in later seasons. I can see Vesper’s points, but I’m still on Twilight’s side. Celestia hasn’t done anything worth hating her for.
Alright, theory time. Let's start off with the gray appearance of Twilight. If we actually go back and watch where she turns gray in the show, it actually wasn't Discord that did it, it was simply Twilight giving up on her friends and cutie mark as the element of magic (Which we can assume she did in this timeline as she rejected her destiny). We can further support this using Pinkie Pie since she became a grey-ish color at the end of the first season. Second, the "Sombra" eyes, once again easily explained as we see Celestia use dark magic as well and gaining these eyes. So basically feelings of hate and anger fuel this kind of magic which is exactly what grey Twilight is doing. As to how she actually became so bitter...well we have to assume it came to ahead when she became an alicorn as it seems everything else is basically the same between these two timelines. The difference comes down to mental thinking, our Twilight saw it as huge honor. Gray Twilight sees it as only a curse, after all, all the duties Celestia attends to would take time away from her friends, she said as much. Friends she could count on to cover up her flaws. But the BIG thing is gray Twilight pushed her own failures and flaws onto Celestia, a process that had probably taken years. Simply watch our Twilight explain everything that went wrong was her overestimating her abilities, she saw her flaws. Gray Twilight pushed them onto someone else, the one pony who connected everything, Celestia. Gray Twilight even says "you don't deserve everyone's admiration" because thats how she sees it. Twilight is flawed and imperfect, not fit to be an alicorn. That's why when Celestia explains everything and why she did what she did...Gray Twilight breaks down, because she can't handle the fact that it's her own flaws she's upset at. And that's the tragic part, Celestia can't love Gray Twilight because Gray Twilight can't love herself. So she cut her wings off, to get rid of the symbol of something she doesn't believe she deserves. As for the alicorn amulet, how she got it can only be speculation but I'm sure it made her hate towards Celestia much worse...this delusion of Celestia setting Twilight up to fail. And as for Celestia being an actual tyrant in this timeline, doubtful as Gray Twilight herself admits the only difference is that she saw Celestia as an evil dictator. (Which is untrue)
Hey, I was the lead animator on the project. I had an amazing experience working with an incredible and talented team. I hope you enjoy.
Amazing job!
Nice work Yoshi. 👍👍👍
NICE WORK!! 😍😍
Looks right out of the show, little different in places bu,t could have fooled me.
I was excited when I saw your intro sequence in the trailer! I was like "Hey! I know them! I'm subscribed to them!" You and all the other animators did a great job!
Vesper: tell me celestia, why did you make us a princess, without our permission.
Celestia: so that hasbro can make more money by selling new toys and do more marketing.
LMAO PLEASE-
Lmao!!! 😂
Lol!😂
#TrueFacts
I originally intended that you would become the Starswirl´s succesor or the new court´s magician. But I think there are forces beyond me now...
TRUEE
"I saw the potential in you to be great and I wanted you to have it." I don't think there's any other quote that more perfectly sums up how much Celestia loves Twilight as her mentor and friend.
Except what Twilight does with her life is none of her business.
@@wildbill9490 it is none of her business, but as a friend she saw goodness and greatness in Twilight and was able to help her steer towards that path, she had the power to help Twilight change. She likely went through the same struggles. How do you think did she became an alicorn? Starswirl was her mentor and he saw greatness in her too, he too had the power to show her the opportunities in front of her and her sister's.
As a friend, she helped Twilight see the greatness in herself when she constantly doubted her worthiness. Along with Twilight's other friends, she built her up with the care and love Twilight needed to grow and become who she is now.
@@johnangelfritzbaylon5327 Celestia was born an alicorn. And whether or not someone sees greatness in you doesn’t give them the right to steer you onto a particular path in life. Free will trumps all supposed notions of fate and destiny.
@@wildbill9490 no she wasn't, in the episode where flurry heart was born, Celestia said that no pony has ever been born an alicorn meaning she was once just a unicorn, a very gifted one, like Twilight. And she didn't have the right, but she had the responsibility of it being the ruler of Equestria, knowing she won't rule forever she had to train someone, and that's Twilight. She also was her mentor, it was her duty to teach Twilight everything she needed to know and expose her to the lessons she also once faced under Starswirl.
@@wildbill9490
Are you serious right now, she is Twilight’s friend and mentor, teachers have a duty to lead their students down the right path that’s literally their job, and as not only a mentor but as a friend Celestia wanted Twilight to have the opportunity to be the best she could and support her, she didn’t force Twilight to make the decisions she made, she just provided the scenario and let Twilight take her own path, and the path she took was the path that led her to be able to stand by her mentor not as just a student, but a friend and an equal. Something Celestia takes pride in not because she made it happen, but because Twilight chose to take that path by allowing herself to open up and be the amazing pony Celestia saw in her all those years ago
My theory is that the Gray Twilight is a part of Twilight she doesn’t want to admit to herself. She still cares about Celestia, but she holds some resentment towards her mentor for making her an Alicorn without her volition. This “shadow” Twilight is just all that resentment boiled over.
Cj Marshall -- if not inversions- grey if what prime represses and vice versa, more or less as I suspect that grey wants to believe but she doesn’t want what that faith brought her and she (understandably) refuses to not care about it
@@watch50er I was almost thinking Sunset Shimmer in this one.
like in person 4?
*persona 4 intensifies*
That’s what I was thinking.
Twilight: "Celestia is my oldest friend"
Shining Armor: "Am I a joke to you?"
It depends on how you see it.
maybe she meant it quite literally XD
SAMMYTASTISCH! I wanted to make that joke, but I thought it was corny.
@@peterbutler1232 "big brother best friend forever"
DoubleD Demps YA
I've actually thought about this a lot, and I'm glad to see it addressed in an animation. Sometimes Celestia's actions seemed selfish, but both sides made really good points.
If I may say;
Celestia basically organized it So Twilight would meet her inevitable friends...
Celestia made sure Twilight would have the Elements when she sent Star Swirls book... Which led to a very emotional day for Twilight....
Celestia made sure To tell Twilight not to tell her friends that she had all of the alicorn magic... When they seriously could have helped her in some way...
Celestia failed to point out that, just maybe, Twilight would outlive her friends once she was in alicorn.
Celestia, herself, said "what is the princess of friendship without her friends..." And yet clearly never granted those friends immortality or longevity of any kind.
Vesper's anger and hatred is very much justified in that light... Vesper realized that she was going to outlive her friends... And she had the reminder on her back... all caused by Celestia when you get right down to it...
And who is Celestia to say what Twilight's destiny is? It should be Twilight's choice... Not a choice started by someone else...
The thing I’ve scratched my head about is why celestia made five random ponies into the protectors of equestria with twilight leading them, and why they were just…..okay with it
STEELMANNING SON!
@@CindyHelmsIn Celestia's defence, wouldn't a loss of friendship/loved one be good as a point of learning? After all, isn't it the truth that friends will come and go, people will come and go and on and on. What's the guarantee that Twillight wouldn't still outlive her friends even without Alicorn magic?
i think celestia was dying.
Twilight: How did you find me?
Luna: We had you chipped.
Twilight: What?
Luna: Nothing. Who's this?
Celestia: **slowly eats a banana while wearing a monkey costume**
Evil Twilight: You ruined my life!
Yes.
Vesper: Twilight!!!!
Twilight: Vesper!!!!
Vesper: Oh ho? You dare to approach me.
Twilight: I can't debate you without getting closer.
*One hour later in the bed*. Celestia:uhh? Twil- Twilight: PRINCESS CELESTIA UMM I CAN EXPLAIN ! Luna:*taking a video*. Celestia: Luna were did you get that. Luna: i get this from the human world by stea- I mean buying it. Grey twilight: What is happening!?
I’m dead!
She cut her own wings off. That's horrible.
I gree
I was pondering that.
Or she used magic to make them disappear
Nuki YT She has scars where her wings were. She cut them off.
What remained of it was difficult to watch. What remained of it was difficult to watch. Every time I saw her, I couldn't look away. It was very disturbing. 😱😱😱
Wait, did this Twilight actually sever her own wings off? She was really so upset about her transformation that she cut off the proof and responsibility of it? Jeez, that’s... dark
Yes
I think it shows that when people have things done to them without consent it can be very traumatic and have very negative effects on them
Its really... Questionable.... For the Mentality of Twilight and her "Other self"..
Since her other self Forsaken celestia and she.. cutted her wings off... And lost her color...
But It did Raised some questions...
Even Though Celestia's and Luna's origins are a mystery.. Even The IDW comics are trying to make up their origins...
But Lauren Faust had said is that Celestia and luna are.... Deitys.. They had no parents.. They were born out of the universe..
And Celestia and Luna's timing of appearing when She revealed herself... Did made me question it..
But i can't basically know a Thousand year old mind...
I think about it as she didn't want a reminder of the fact that she was immortal... Celestia said it herself at the end of season 4: what is a princess of friendship without her friends?
The wings, I guess, symbolized to Twilight immortality... Since Celestia looks exactly the same as she did 1,000 years ago... It's easy to think that Celestia and the other princesses are immortal...
But Twilight's friends? They aren't alicorns... Meaning they're not immortal... Vesper realized she was going to outlive her friends.... Friends she was close to....
And what is the princess of friendship without her friends?
@@CindyHelms There's a problem with being immortal since alot of story's have immortality as a tragedy part,
Because yeah twilight will see her brother pass away from old age, her friends will pass away from old age,
And then.... well... She herself will beg for death, Like Gabriel Belmont in lords of shadow 2..
But the gray twilight in this does make a point about Celestia, but seeing more of her history (IDW comics, and the show).
Celestia Knows that her as a alicorn is a curse since she stopped aging, and she ruled equestria for those many years and especially banishing her sister which caused her to be alone for many years...
Gray twilight had a point, but she never did know why exactly Celestia chose her to be the next ruler...
She right about one thing; We should question and criticize reality, especially our leaders. Furthermore, trust should be earned, not merely given as a right.
Well like Twilight said that’s what friends do, true friends don’t need proof they have faith, and in a way this was like Discord’s test. I have a theory that Celestia sent Discord to test his loyalty to see if he was truly Equestria’s ally, and a test to see if Twilight and her friends truly befriended Discord.
Exactly. And Discord never earned anyone's trust. All he did was give everyone more than enough reason not to trust him or treat him like a friend. Heck, in There's A Crowd, he was more interested in watching Twilight squirm throughout his "friendship test" than he was in actually being friends, as proven when he makes taking care of him a madhouse thus wasting their whole day on him, makes both Twilight & Cadance fly him to the edge of Equestria in a heavy gold chairiot, and to top it all, he does NOTHING to help them when they got attacked by the tatzlwurm; they got trapped in its mouth for a moment and he just sat back, watched, and laughed knowing that he got what he wanted.
@@raijyn2452
Hell starlight has proven that despite her faults? They CAN trust her. Discord hasn't done anything to earn their trust nor was he even trying.
I think the same can apply to Redemption. Forgiveness is just the first step that has to be earned. Reconciliation is the next step where both parties actively work to rebuild the relationship through trust, time, and active effort.
@@hyperdreamer9483
A test she bombed and badly when ya think about it. Discord was definitely the most in the wrong but it's not like twilight was even trying to befriend him.
I was literally gonna ask, "How did your Celestia make you a princess when you don't have your wings....Then I noticed the scars on her body.....Wow
You don’t think she-
She.... She cut off h...... H...... Her..... She cut off her wings
@@dlaminin5398 hahaha who says SHE did it...and not Celestia herself?
@@squachyofall no.........
@@dlaminin5398 bro stuttering like hell💀
Shadow Twilight Sparkle is basically saying that ever since Twilight became Celestia's student, she's been hiding under her shadow and that Twilight has been cheated out on her own destiny
Fandom be wildin when they tryna inject real world stuff into lighthearted cartoons originally meant for children lmfao.
@That Muggle-Born Demigod season 9 validates everything Gray Twilight said. Celestia hijacked her life and used her without ever giving her a chance to make her own choices. She never asked to be a princess, much less the ruler of all Equestria. That’s why the season has to be revised so Celestia never retires and Twilight stays in Ponyville where she belongs.
Exactly
Despite the judgement against her, Celestia's trying her best, even if she isn't perfect.
It's great to see that acknowledged for once.
Because there's no such thing as perfect.
She dose her best and has been able to keep a country together for over 1000 years
1. That's actually untrue about the canon Celestia for the most part.
2. The fandom isn't one to glamorize a character by hiding details. That's why I prefer works like this to the actual show. It actually reveals a characters deepest secrets and leaves nothing out.
I like your avatar. It's Petra right?
I'm still skeptical about Celestia, mostly because her actions are strange and a millennium ago.
But naming all the events would be very long for a comment.
I don't think she was meant to be a malicious character, but the holes in the lore paint her as such. This video doesn't really address the main issues, but it is entertaining.
Honestly, I see the whole "Nightmare Moon" thing as not being "she's too strong" but rather that Celestia wanted to save her sister instead of banish her all over again. She got Twilight and friends to use the "true" Elements of Harmony to do the job because it would allow Twilight to discover the Magic of Friendship while also purifying Luna in the process.
I also figured that the reason she had to banish NNM in the first place was because she was only bonded properly to half the elements and the other three were bonded to Luna and that's why she couldn't purify her on her own. Other compatible ponies had to be the ones to do it.
Do remember, Twilight was focused on figuring out where she was and who her kidnapped was. She probably would’ve brought up that point if her mind wasn’t occupied elsewhere
This comment has a lot of good points, poor Grey Twilight has forgotten so much.
Edward Richards -- I don’t think forgotten, grey Twi awoke from the friendship highs because she didn’t want to be a princess and the liberty that Celestia took with her life hurt her badly. Everything else was a lead up to that argument and I bet grey Twi was trying both to “save” Prime Twi from the same path and stick it to Celestia for it. The entire skepticism hinges on the princess destiny thing thus casting all that came before into doubt.
@Tony Basinger "Means to a end" scenario?
Vesper has a point, neither Celestia nor Twilight's friends took Twilight's words into consideration at the wedding rehearsal but Twilight has a point about the wedding rehearsal, she admitted that she did come in all hyped up and accused "Cadance" for being evil, but in the end she turned out to be right, because it was really Queen Chrysalis in disguise and even she pointed out that they could have stop her sooner if Twilight's friends had listened to her when she spotted something going on with "Cadance's" behavior
Queen Chrysalis said this line in the episode: "It's funny, really. Twilight here was suspicious about my behavior all along. Too bad the rest of you were too catch up in your wedding plan to realize those suspicions were correct."
At that point, Everypony realize that Chrysalis was right and Applejack (who spoke on everypony's behalf) apologized to Twilight and said that they should have listen to her, even though Twilight showed no hard feelings and forgives them
Yeah if they would've just kept their ego out of their flanks and listened to the ONE pony who knows Cadence more than anyone else and then they could've saved us ALL the trouble of dealing with all the horse bug psychopaths!
I'm not taking sides!
I'm still angry about that. They trusted a pony they knew for 3 hours over a pony they knew for 3 years. Celestia is just as bad if not worse, she was Twilight's teacher, who had trained her since she was a filly. In many ways, she was Twilight's mother. But not even she took the moment to at least listen to her students claims, but no, she simply walked off and told her she was in the wrong. That betrayal of trust would be enough to drive anyone to the dark side.
@@kingcamelot1395 Luna is better Princess! 😆😝
I’m still wondering where Luna was during that mess
"Even Pinkie Pie would work"
Okay, now we know she's lying
*Ahem* EQG:FG Bloopers and she can predict the future, and even fejy physics
@@eshaanreza832 yes but its more to rule a country than the ability to defend it..
And lets be real the chance for pinkie to turn into Pinkamena to be freed by pinkie under pressure of the Relationship
"I could transform the cosmos so everything is made of icing!" 😋
I think it's more "chose who you want" and less lying
Anger can make even the smartest of us stupid.
The moment when you realise that they just made the "Celestial never does anything" meme into a fully fledged episode O_O
Wait what?
@@cinderleaves3949 The video here made that very clear.
@@Magi_H2U ah ok
Well, it’s true. Celestia never really did anything for Equestria once she had Twilight doing all of the work for her.
I think I know why second dimension Twilight acted the way she did, to be honest I’m not a psychiatrist but, the reason why second dimension twilight acted the way she did is because she has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, or PTSD, all the danger she faced has caused her a lot of trauma during her youth, causing her cortisol levels to go through the roof, PTSD would cause people to have aggressive outbursts, and people with PTSD don’t really cope with the stress of change very well, Second dimension Twilight with her PTSD when she became a princess, the stress that comes with it is dangerous to her, that’s why she acted the way she did, but again I’m no psychiatrist, and besides it’s just a theory, A FILM THEORY!(sorry I had to)
DaisyTDM
It’s okay.
And I see what you’re saying, Second Twi does seem to have most of the showings of PTSD
I’m glad a lot of people understand what I was trying to say despite the fact that what I said in a grammar like scenario doesn’t really make any sense
i see how that could be even though she served her own wings off.
I’ve studied psychology and I think you might be into something. I have PTSD myself and all that spiraling alternate universe Twilight went through at the very end is something very common of PTSD. Changes, the ability to trust, and stress are all things those with PTSD struggle with. I would know, because I’m one of those people.
While I knew alternate dimension Twilight was wrong, I could relate to her questioning the intentions behind Princess Celestia, and the distrust in/challenging the truth. Alternate Twilight was coming from a strong desire to protect herself (both her selves) because people with PTSD can sometimes feel like themselves is the only one they can trust. The more I think about it, the more likely I see PTSD as the explanation for alternate Twilight’s behavior and thought process.
“Wh-What have you done?”
“I _chose.”_
That honestly made me think of Hellboy for some odd reason.
....Oh s**t I think I might have subconsciously put that line there because of that lol
joshscorcher
Damn right for Hellboy
joshscorcher
Hello Scorcher, I loved your final moves like Jiraiya’s Fire Blast, The Giant Sword From the Portal and Final Explosion From DBZ those are some of the best goddamn videos I have ever seen.
Twilight doesn’t want power at all, she wanted to keep balance of friendship intact around the world and be with friends and family. She doesn’t need to be a ruler or have all that power to save the world and she knows it’s not her place to misuse them.
Ron Perlmans Hellboy were truly under appreciated.
There's a pretty simple answer to why Celestia can't just go around fixing all the problems: If she did then ponies would become too dependent on _her_ and if ever there was a reason she wasn't around and she hadn't trained someone to deal with it Equestria would be screwed.
Then there's everyday responsibilities, (governing, audiences, public appearances, etc which means she can't dash off to here there and everywhere at the drop of a hat to deal with issues. Even the cutie map rarely sent the entire mane six somewhere.
Then there's the fact the the show is by design Twilight-centric. Just because the Mane Six are the "Social Fixers" doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't have other teams of ponies trained to deal with other problems. Diplomats, military responses, that kind of thing. The Friends Forever comics touched on Blueblood being an effective diplomat even though he's a total knob.
"Why does God allow evil in the world?!"
Because he gave us free will to be good people. Taking care of the world is OUR responsibility, and God has given us his guidance in The Bible, the literal recorded word of God as transcribed by the divinely inspired prophets, apostles, and disciples.
@@hariman7727 Amen
"It's all well and good to place everything in the hands of a perfect man, but what do you do when he gets a stomach ache?"
Herman Cillo Celestia is a God :0
@@Usablemessage Parents have the same responsibility to not be snowplow parents who turn their child into a spoiled brat who can't handle the least bit of adversity.
I like it. The only thing I would change would be Main Twi actually admitting that she had doubts about Celestia. To, in a way, validate Gray Twi's feelings. She would admit that she never understood why Celestia gave her such expectations out of the blue without even thinking of the effect it could have on the young mare. Celestia, in turn, would apologize in turn for not taking into consideration Twi's feelings. That way together (Main Twi and Celestia) could give Gray Twi a new way of seeing her views. Celestia could still do the calling flare and admit to not being able to fully help Gray Twi, but at least Gray Twi may be more willing to learn from her Celestia.
Yes
I agree!
Hello guys, LuckoDaStars here, I am one of the animators for this project. And I am so glad you guys are going to be here to see a long project finally come to fruition
I'm so excited! From the trailer, it looks super awesome! I can't wait!
This was amazing and I loved it there are now words.
You're one of the animators? This was so good!!! My mind is blown!!
This was honestly a really good animation this particular fic i listened to as an audio book on youtube then i found it back on filmfic.
This gave me chills to see this animated.
And it stayed true to that fic i herd so long ago despite it being shortened a tiny bit.
So well done!!!
/)(\
You and all the people who worked on this did a Awasome job.
Maybe in the gray twilight's timeline,her friends have died and she hated being an alicorn so she cut her wings off.Also at some point started hating Celestia
I thought something happened, too. But thinking about it further, I theorized that unlike our Twi, Grey didn't get over her own self doubts, which festered and projected onto Celestia.
I half expected the Gray-Twi's version of Celestia to be a cruel and sadistic ruler.
Which imo would explain gray twilight breaking the mirror as a way to protect a dimension where her alternative self was happy and Celestia was actually a kind ruler who treated her favored student well.
I was thinking either that, or she faced a bunch of tragedy and hardship after becoming monarch. Like endless famines or wars happened in the kingdom, and she wanted to escape the responsibilities she had.
Zenev Power Yeah...
26:28
Vesper (Broken Twilight): Basically everyone’s views on Celestia.
Twilight: The views of someone who reads between the lines.
Couldn’t say it better myself.
Fr
i think i know why celestia made twilight a princess... princess celestia is not longer immortal... she is dying.
People keep saying they’re immortal and then suddenly they’re not. Seriously. They need to take a pick because there’s no in-between.
This gray twilight reminded me of everyone mad that Twilight became a Princess and that she was different and better before her wings.
The “Veser is another Twilight” reveal honestly have me flashbacks to The Flash’s Savitar
So gray Twilight given up as a Princess and have anger and rage with darkness within.
@@Twilight17Petkoton I think it was more like this version of Twilight had kept her problems and pain inside instead of having her friends help her. This Twilight has more of her reasoning on logic and safety of Equestria as a whole.
@@bonniefazman9065 So then the Princess Twilight Sparkle tell her gray self everyone is not prefect. Before going to the dark power thanks to Princess Celestia and Luna telling her everyone is not easy. Before a different dimension Princess Celestia show up and end. After seeing some Star Wars episode 8 vibes.
@@Twilight17Petkoton That's what Princess Twilight is trying to convince Dark Twilight of.
Is it weird that I actually agree with BOTH sides?
NO, I DO TOO
Its ok to feling good or evil but to feling good or evil its not what you feling shuld do to the Only one who can shose good or evil its you shelf then i men evrione
No, I'm with you I don't know who's side I should be on 🤔
@@kallenilsson1883 can you type it properly, I can't understand
Somvan can not shoce to you to be evil the Only one who can shoce its you shelf
Thinking of the ending.... It made me realize.... So Celestia made almost everyone else in the kingdom suffer, just so Twilight could grow.....
That’s why Season 9 must be officially revised. So the criticisms lobbed at Celestia here aren’t validated.
In vespers universe probably but I’m not so sure about the main universe.
@@nicke9012 Vesper had stated that literally nothing has changed, her timeline and events was exactly the same as Twilights, the only thing that has changed is her mindset and realization, but I really took vespers side more, for some reason it did make sense and it wasn't just because I sympathized for her something about the whole thing felt wrong or maybe it's because it's something I wouldn't do but it's so hard not to give in to darkness and doubt that you kinda just don't want to like it's better that way, maybe that explains why I sorta felt anger for Twilight, Luna and Celestia. For Vesper, it felt as if doubt had not clouded her mind but instead enlighten it, but she had gone too far deep into the pits of her mind that she had turned to darkness and it had overwhelmed her leading her lose herself causing her to snap and do what she did.
To them it was about what they THINK is right not what truly is, look where it had led Vesper, dismissing her thoughts and feelings about the manner is what lead her to question them.
But truly contemplate on this. To suddenly have a big responsible you've never asked for handed to you kinda of like what a parent would want for their spouse. But speaking about that metaphor,, of course we would want our parents to be proud of us and our accomplishments, but would it truly be alright if it affects our expense of our happiness? Which leads me to my next point, to lead on as a new ruler in which you have no experience of doing so, having so many eyes on you the pressure and stress is unbearable you are expected to act strong for an entire nation and in that matter you have to balance out what your destiny truly is and how it works, having no time to really think about it it is completely and utterly stressful. Having to keep a strong face as a strong new leader in hopes of getting accepted by the public and not letting them down, now you are led with the destiny to make sure the Kingdom doesn't fall down into shambles, all that for one person or rather pony especially with one who had to lead her own way since she is a crowned new ruler of Friendship, after all everypony has their own special talent there wasn't much the other Princesses could offer help from. I understand how change really makes things so much more complicated sure it's beautiful and the start of a new cycle but Twilight had never mentioned in the show that she had been longing for something different or greater, instead her whole life had change unexpectedly. The only reason it is 'okay' in this situation is because Twilight had accepted it, it didn't make it right for Celestia to turn her into an Alicorn without her consent or offering it to her but the only reason she didn't turn out like Vesper is because Vesper was not okay with it. It's one of those things that 'yeah you did this really bad thing but luckily I'm okay with it and I forgive you or whatever so everything's okay and turned out fine' but does it really excuse the action or situation itself? A bigger destiny does not always mean a brighter future I mean just look at how Vesper turned out, everything was exactly the same as Twilights universe the only small different that caused the chain of events was her simple small choice of questioning and really looking deep into the truth about her turning into an Alicorn. Suddently all of this new responsibility new destiny is pushed onto you, and because the show is quite friendly and down easy with it, it doesn't necessarily emphasize how great of a struggle it really is to be a Princess or how Twilight situation really is if you really look deep into it. Mostly Twilight had overlooked it and generally it had been taken at face value, but that's when Vesper decided to really reflect on it while Twilight kinda accepted it as her new destiny and as her new self. This video took the liberation to go more in depth with this concept as it showed what would have happened if the show took the time to really look into how Twilight felt about this, and she herself in this video has admitted that Vesper might as well have been the manifestations of her deepest or 'darkest/doubtful' thoughts meaning it sort of confirms Twilight at least in this video, had felt that way about her becoming an Alicorn. Imagine how it would have felt like to in a way Negate your own feelings because you are afraid of letting everyone down of dissapointing them of not feeling worthy such as Vesper, and ultimately, making the entirety of your friends, the Princesses and Equestria feel if in a way they're being betrayed or abandoned in a manner that it makes you seem that you aren't prepared or want to do such a task of responsibility. You wouldn't want to let your friends down, or anyone who now looks up to you, admires you, and depends on you and sure her friends and such would have been understanding and maybe Twilight in whatever universe that's similar, that truly is her destiny but it would be like sacrificing a part of yourself to contribute to something bigger. Without Twilight, her friends or what she is to be preached about her so called destiny;Friendship, the dynasty that is Equestria would fall and we have seen that as such in the show, but still those greater lengths although achieved had many struggles in order to climb up those steps and be able to do so and accomplish those goals prior to it being a crucial part as an Empire and all of Equestria as a whole.
I wonder if part of Vesper's resentment came from the fact that she would (theoretically) outlive her friends. I think that fact alone would be the greatest source of hatred she could possibly have towards Celestia, and I think it was probably implied anyhow when she said that she "enjoyed being with her friends, nothing had to change".
This was really well done - and I think this animation does address probably the most complicated moral struggle in the show and the fandom. Two of them actually - one being the question of Celestia's wisdom, and the other being the ethics of Twilight's transformation. It's the kind of question that few take the time to discuss with all the facts and explanations considered.
Great work!
Yet another reason I'm not for the "alicorns being imortal" idea. Longevity is what I'd go with.
My thoughts exactly.
Or maybe something terrible happened to her and her friends and she’s blames celestia for it.
Maybe her friends died
Note;
- alicorn amulet
- Discorded?
- dark magic
- no wings
'Vesper' had the ability to be the most magical horse yet because she didn't use The Power Of Friendship™ she failed to see true happiness in herself and had doubts of her ruler who she felt forced her on missions. I wanna hug 'Shadow' Twilight.
Her wings were cut off.
She had wings, but she cut them off. You can see the scars.
Umbrum magic
Me too
Nah I would've called her Shadow Light
My theory/point of view :
I see Celestia as technically writing Twilight's life like a book, she knew all along that Twilight would play by her rules as a puppet. Think about it. Celestia was the one that sent Twilight away to make friends she already saw, and picked for her technically. She was the one that made Twilight go through tests just to prove how loyal she would be.
It really kinda shows me the side that Celestia indeed is manipulative and had all of it planed, the elements of Harmony even have their cutie marks for no reason at all. Celestia truly knew that Twilight would play along in her game and so she decided to write her whole life story the way she imagined.
And if you remember then Twilight actually *Had* friends before she moved. Celestia just had her plan already and decided that these *friends* of hers weren't the ones she planned.
THANK YOU for understanding this
@Endie. With all due respect, you missed one important detail. Twilight may have already had friends before moving to Ponyville but she was being pretty anti social to them. In one episode, she even had a hard time remembering their names and she felt like she had to apologize to them.
@@scottpetersen672 that is true but if we look at Moondancer, they understood eachother really well. We even have an episode where Twilight goes back and Moondancer is furious with her that she left and didn't even send at LEAST a letter. It is really suspicious since the two are really smart (same level and sat together) and really similar (same hairstyle. Well, was same when they were fillies). Twilight would have at least sent a letter since they were friends. (it really seems that Celestia intensionally made Twilight forget about her old life and friends.)
That’s exactly why Season 9 must be revised. It validates all the criticisms Celestia has received over the years.
@@wildbill9490 to be honest it's a little bit too late for that for that and the criticisms do stand sadly
That one scene where Celestia and all her friends walked out on her on the wedding rehearsal, that moment hit truly hardest for me in the show. It felt too real to life in it's own right and Vester is right, I feel like Celestia should have trusted her in that moment. We all know Twilight tends to over react a little, even Celestia knew that and before she'd support her, explain to her or try to reason with her differently but instead everyone turned on her and I part of it felt out of place. It was probably a "to drive the plot" kind of moment, but it did seem like a major issue to me. Something felt off.
Agreed.
In Celestia’s defense, Celestial probably thought, “I taught you better than that.”
Isn't it her brothers fault for not mentioning to twilight (his own sis) that he had a girlfriend and was going to get married soon? No introductions or anything?
I always felt it had something to do with Chrysalis's magic. She is a changeling and her power is to take the form of someone you care about and absorb your love for that person and turn it into magic. As a creature of deceit what better way to insure your lies are believed than if your power could make others more succeptuble to the lie. Weakening the reason of others others when thinking of the changeling.
@@pheebs7030 honestly yes it is. I mean keeping a relationship basically a secret until the point you get married always is a red flag. Twilight was just the only one who saw it because apparently no one else knew she had a freakin' brother. Bad writting for sure.
Considering her friends would normally help twilight in a time like this and the fact they currently aren’t there implies that something must of happened to them to make twilight have a breakdown.
Might just be me, but I didn't know anything about this fanfic prior to watching this and thought grey twilight was from a much more evil and cruel version of Equestria.
So who knows, maybe her friends are dead(excluding pinkie?).
Unrelated but I love your PFP
I'm guessing there was a horrible accident after terik.
26:28
That's actually a good theory. Her friends have been her support most of her time because she is obviously a broken mess as how anyone else with such a massive responsibility and a meteor-sized burden would feel. Princess Cadance has her husband, child, the princesses, and her sister-in-law. Princess Celestia has Princess Luna (And perhaps some royal advisors or so I saw from the comics, unless if they don't count.) But in this timeline, Twilight supposedly has no one to help her through.
Plot Twist: The alternative universe Celestia is not the same as OG Celestia.
She talks less with Alternative Twilight.
Hense more resentment
Ooh yeah
I remember when you first showed me this story you wrote up, and I immediately wanted to turn it into a Dramatic Reading. I'm so very glad to see that your original vision for this tale has finally been realized :)
One of my favorite fics. Thank you for reading it. I'm going to listen to it again.
I will admit this is a good story and I learn a bit more what it means like grey twilight does have a point. it is hard to trust someone who change who you are without their permission but the point she missing is the point trust is much like a leap of faith and if she’d question everything Celestia have done for her who can you really trust in the end she would be alone and filled with resentment like she showed through the debate and she would be the “tyrant” she did not want to be. But I have a question for you Dr. wolf does grey twilight really have a point or is she repeating the mistakes she had made in her adventures?
It’s a hell of a story indeed for many.
DRWolf001
I have said my theory what happened to the other Twilight. you could have the similar idea about it.
when she became an alicorn she became unstabled and snapped. my main idea after this. she time traveled with Starlight to get herself to not trust Celestia. tha toke the amulet thinking she can take care of things on her own. after that her mind was to far gone and seek out her other self. the crown bit was actually test that she can make a choice rather to be a princess or not. questioning about Celestia's actions and a few answers she didn't expect to hear from her other self.
as we know about the Alicorn Amulet. it may give you power. but that power, it corrupts the mind. so this story is like the grey Twilight was seeking help subconsciously. because once she acknowledged Celestia really does care for her. she give up the amulet.
It makes me wonder if Minty root animated this
P.S I hope that was Dr wolf giving me that like
So cool to see this come out! I recorded my lines years ago and it's almost nostalgic hearing this script again, especially put to such nice animation!
You did a great job! Who did you voice?
@@KittyKatty999 she voiced celestia and dang does she have a good impression of celestia...sadly the main thing that could have been changed wad having a better mic-which is a shame cause its an easy fix possibly asking another brony or anyone from the fandom for a better mic-i got over it but it took out of the mood a teensy bit at first
@@CurtyTails Ah ok. I didn't notice the mic issue, so her voice acting still shined through.
@@CurtyTails Yea, it was a while ago and I have better recording equipment now.
The biggest thing against Celestia, that I can really say is "proof" is something that Twilight wouldn't even know about, and it's not really that big, but was a little mean. I'd say 10/10 canonically, 8/10 vocally, 10/10 visually, 10/10 voice acting, and 10/10 story.
First let me say the animation is incredible. You guys actually made it look like a proper episode. I feel so sad for Vesper. It seems to me their was ONE difference between her & "our" Twilight, a sense of contentment. It seems Vesper reached a spot where she didn't want to advance any further & Celestia making her a princess shoved her over it. That all the stress from everything else that happened to her just...broke her. And she couldn't understand why someone she loved & claimed to love her was putting her through it all so she convinced herself Celestia was a tyrant in a desperate attempt to make it all make sense.
I always believed Celestia was a fantastic ruler of Equestria. She ruled the kingdom alone for 1000 years after Nightmare Moon was banished to the moon, and Equestria enjoyed almost complete peace and happiness in that time. She always showed such love and care for her subjects even though she could have just used her immense magical power to have anything she wanted. When we say Daybreaker in the episode “A Royal Problem” she said to Celestia “deep down you know how powerful you really are, you don’t need Luna, you can have anything you want and all you have to do is get rid of every pony who stands in your way”. To me, this shows that Celestia was always strong enough to fight off any foe who would threaten Equestria, but she may have let the need for power consume her. Just like how Anakin Skywalker let his love and devotion to his wife lead him to the dark side in an effort to save her before the dark side corrupted him, or how Gandalf warned Frodo to not give him the one ring as he would’ve used it from a desire to do good but that through him the ring would wield a power to great and terrible to imagine. If Celestia had let her desire to protect her citizens drive her to gaining power, then she may have lost herself along the way. However, Celestia found a solution to ensuring the protection of Equestria from enemies without falling to darkness; the magic of friendship. Friendship magic was both powerful and almost completely incorruptible, so Celestia sent Twilight on a path that lead to her learning all she could about this wonderful new power. Once, Twilight had proven to Celestia that she had learned all that she needed to in order to start using the magic of friendship to help ponies and protect Equestria (a milestone that was marked by her completing Star Swirl the Bearded’s spell), Celestia let Twilight fully embrace her destiny and her potential by making her an Alicorn Princess. However, Celestia eventually saw that Twilight was capable of more than even she herself could have imagined. Celestia saw that Twilight was using the magic of friendship to not only protect Equestria but to also form strong bonds of unity and understanding with other races as well. Seeing how her former student now stood on the brink of uniting several kingdoms together, Celestia did the wisest and most noble thing she could do. Celestia stepped down from the thrown of Equestria so Twilight could bring peace and friendship to the farthest corners of the world and rule as greatest leader that any kingdom could have wished for. Celestia was the Greatest ruler Equestria could have asked for and her student/successor became the greatest ruler the world could have hoped for. Celestia deserves none of the hate she gets and deserves all of the praise we can give her. Thank you for making this video!
yea, if the fact that Tia kept Equestria together for 1.000 years alone doesn't speak volumes of how great a leader she is, nothing will,
yeah some people seem to forget inner demons are a thing in this series.
Wow, thanks FOB Equestria for making this video and The Storm Sage for this comment. It has been nice to watch and read to find out more.
I agree with everything you said except one thing:the magic of friendship can be corrupted. Look at Cozy glow, The friendship school made her think that friendship was an ultimate source of power and that the more friends she made,the more powerful she’d become. She may not of transformed into some evil creature representing the corrupted magic of friendship. At least from the OUTSIDE. But she did from the inside. The magic of friendship can be used for evil if you don’t understand its true potential .
While I do agree that Cozy Glow did get the idea of friendship equaling power mixed up a bit, I would argue that Cozy never actually acquired the magic of friendship at all. In mlp, it is well established that there are many different types of magic in the world and that at least a few of them are tied to emotions. This is made apparent in the season 7 episode “all bottled up” when Starlight explains to Trixie how her magic is fueled by emotion (I think the comics also cover this concept as well but I haven’t looked into that yet). Not to mention the fact that love magic is the central driving force/power in any story focusing on Cadence or the Changelings. Basically, I’m saying that there are many types of magic in the world of mlp that are either fueled by or completely composed of emotions. One of these types of magic is friendship magic. There have been multiple times in the show when immense amounts of magical power have been used from seemingly nowhere other than from friendship (Twilight defeating Sombre in the Canterlot throne room and half of all the times magic is used in the Equestria Girls series are some easy examples). This sudden surge of magical power comes from their friendship as friendship is a strong type of emotional magic. In fact, princess Celestia says in the season 3 finale that the reason Twilight became an Alicorn is because “she created new magic”. This statement is, of course, referring to the magic of friendship. The tag line of the show even tells us that in this world “friendship is magic”. Yes, I know that there is an incredibly obvious metaphor in the tag line, but that’s the beautiful thing about it. The tag line of the show is meant to be taken both metaphorically and literally just as the heroes of the story use both the metaphorical and literal magic of friendship (I was kind of blown away when first realized that). As the show goes on and we watch the heroes become closer and have their friendship strengthen over time, we are literally watching them strengthen the magic of friendship that they use to overcome obstacles and defeat villains. This also explains why some creatures outside of the mane six have demonstrated the ability to use friendship magic (like Spike and the student six for example). The long point I am trying to make here is that there are two types of friendship magic in the show: the metaphorical kind and the literal kind. While anyone is capable of the former (if they want to be), only those who have the strongest of friendships and some connection to the Elements Of Harmony or training from the mane six will likely ever be capable of the latter. Cozy Glow was trained by the mane six in the ways of metaphorical friendship magic, but she was (probably) not trained by them in the ways of literal friendship magic. Also, her twisted views on friendship and power meant that she would likely never be truly capable of either type of friendship magic. Think about it, Cozy Glow only ever tried to manipulate and/or lie to others in an attempt to become powerful. I doubt that she ever really cared about the happiness or well being of anyone other than herself. What Cozy was doing wasn’t friendship, it was something more akin to an ideology of “strength in numbers”. If she never really had any friends, then how could she have ever been capable of using the magic of friendship? She couldn’t shoot rainbow lasers (so no literal magic of friendship), and her allies probably didn’t actually care about her and likely wouldn’t have stuck their necks out too far for her if something went wrong (so no metaphorical magic of friendship either). Basically, Cozy’s own twisted ideas about power and manipulating others meant that she was never really capable of understanding or using the magic of friendship. Plus, she’s a Pegasus. It would have been more difficult for her to use the literal magic of friendship friendship since she can’t use magic (this is a bit of a mute point considering how many non magical creatures we have seen use friendship magic, but the point still stands that she doesn’t have the ability to interact directly with most forms of magical power). Take a look at Sunset Shimmer, she was shown both the metaphorical and literal power of friendship in the first EQG movie and then slowly learned more about it from Twilight and the others over the corse of the second movie. She was trained by at least one of the mane six, learned how to use the metaphorical magic of friendship, and then became capable of using the literal magic of friendship. After that, she was then able to spread the magic of friendship to the other Twilight in the third movie. Sunset came to understand and appreciate the magic of friendship in both of its forms before being able to use it and even teach it to others. In comparison, Cozy Glow developed a warped view on the magic of friendship and saw it as little more than a way to become powerful. She never actually became friends with anyone and just tried to manipulate others with a fake smile and superficial ways of being friends like friendship bracelets and empty compliments. She had no friends, was not capable of gaining friends with her twisted view, and refused or otherwise ignored everything that Twilight and the others tried to tell her about friendship. Twilight even says to her in the season 8 finale that “it’s true friendship is a powerful thing, but power isn’t why you make friends” and Cozy just brushes it aside like she knows more about friendship than even Twilight. This is the one true reason that Cozy Glow could have never been reformed, she had a twisted idea of what friendship was on a fundamental level and would have likely never listened to what Twilight and the others would’ve said to her in an effort to have her accept friendship. She thought that she already had friendship figured out and that it was Twilight and company who were incorrect. The only compassion I can make here is one of creation. If a person asks “what created the universe” then you can explain to the them the theory of the Big Bang. However, if somebody believes that the universe was created by a god or deity, then they will likely not listen to a single word said to them about the Big Bang. I am not trying to argue what created the universe here, I am just trying to make an easy comparison to demonstrate that Cozy’s differing view on friendship meant that she would have likely never listened to or accepted anything that Twilight or the others had to say. Since Tirek and Crysalis knew little to nothing about friendship or what it meant to be friends, they could have at least been taught the ways of friendship and reformed (potentially), but there was almost no way that someone like Cozy Glow could have ever been reformed. She may have had a warped view on friendship equaling power, but she never truly possessed either form of friendship magic. You can’t say that friendship magic corrupted Cozy Glow when she never had it to begin with. This was a pretty long rant, but I have very complex thoughts and feelings about this show. If anybody else has some discussion points that they would like to bring up then don’t hold back. I love talking about this show, but i’ll try to make any following comments shorter.
They missed one topic:
When Luna first became Nightmare Moon. Celestia should have noticed that Luna was troubled in some way because they are sister's after all. Or did she just not care enough to notice. Or maybe Luna didn't feel that she could show that she was troubled to a pony that never was troubled because she was always beloved by everyone and maybe didn't make time with her sister because she ruled an entire kingdom pretty much on her own even though that should have been her mane priority.
I think Luna bottled up her emotions until it one day exploded in celestia's face aka nightmare moon.
Plus Luna seems like the type of pony that would rather "suffer in silence" than rock the boat.
@@silverbutterfly1739 I think its both.
Luna bottled everything up while Celestia didn't notice till it was too late. Like she wasn't there for her due to stuff.
This is why I like Lullaby for a Princess animation’s interpretation of what happened rather than the actual show’s. I feel like they were a bit lazy with what happened and instead could have went more in depth. Instead, it felt not as...emotional? I think that’s the right way to describe it. Lullaby for a princess had a better storytelling aspect
@@rsmcleary defenetly
@@nightshroud9671 Celestia can't read Luna's head, especially since Luna wasn't telling her anything at all. If anything Nightmare Moon was the result of passive aggressiveness. Instead of being quiet and making Celestia take the hint to fix her problem, Luna should've, y'know, did open communication?? I don't even see how Celestia would laugh at her for being depressed.
I get that Luna was suffering in silence but that's like getting mad at your wife and not talking about why you're mad. How else do you think the problem will get fixed if you don't open up??
"I thought I had to do it alone" is the reason I fail shit all the time. I'm TERRIFIED of asking for help. Celestia should have taught her all those years ago NOT to be scared.
Eh, from my experience sometimes you have to just do it. I'm like Twilight and Apple Jack. My parents and teachers always told me to ask for help, but I never did. This led me to dropping out of college. Wasn't till I got my first job that I finally started to learn to ask for help.
@@saphiriathebluedragonknight375 I was taught to fear asking for help and I'm neuroatypical.
It’d be foolish to not be scared of something. Everyone has fears and we just have to live with it.
I’ve had a theory about Celestia about why she always seems to lose against the villains and that is that she’s a princess a non-combatant, her plan of attack seems to be is to overpower her opponent. For all of her victory also seems to come from outside sources (the elements of harmony and/or sister), while her loses come from when she is overpowered or outsmarted. I don’t deny that she is powerful but she doesn’t seem to know how to use her magic in a combative way unlike others have.
Actually, I think it’s a ruse. Remember in Starlight Shimmers dream when Celestia turned into Daybreaker? We saw that Celestia had the power to easily defeat Nightmare Moon, and what’s more, Celestia was able to nullify BOTH of their attack, and literally did a Full Counter and both of them. My theory is that she’s acting as if she couldn’t defeat them so the Mane 6 would get stronger and eventually take her place. I believe it was her training them to take her spot.
We seen her and Luna defeat Sombra with their own magic and not the elements. I think she used the elements as a way of sealing a villain away and she probably didn't want to fight Luna one on one. I also think she never seemed to do anything with other villains was because her ambition was to always have Twilight in charge so Twilight fighting and acting like a leader proved her case to be worthy
I feel like she has ptsd from Luna and is afraid to use her magic anymore afraid of hurting someone
Me, someone just returning to the brony fandom after several years:
"Ink Rose... Now that's a name I haven't heard in a looonnggg time..."
Welp, the grey twilight is basically every mlp fan that is pissed off at Celestia for her decisions. I will point out that Grey Twilight had valid evidence but a poor argument why Princess Twilight had a solid argument but poor evidence.
So correct.
The problem is that arguments are evidence. If you have good evidence you have a good argument. If you have poor evidence, you have a poor argument.
To be fair she is right and if something had gone wrong with each of these scenarios Equestria would be no more Celestia basically based the safety of Equestria on a bunch of civilians always succeeding when you think about it nevermind not making sure truly making sure that something as dangerous as the amulet or Discord or other enemies were sealed away so they could not Escape fully and when the danger was too much she set Twilight and her friends for example let me question you something what would have happened in the first two-part episode friendship is Magic if Twilight fell to her death when she slipped off the cliff her death would have been inadvertently caused by Celestia because she didn't take the threat seriously because she wanted Twilight to learn friendship never mind the fact that she would have been dooming Luna her sister to her fate of being trapped on the moon forever for her foolishness
Which is why we must get them to revise Season 9, so none of these criticisms are validated by Celestia’s decision to retire.
She let her emotions control blind her.
Those scars on her body that's where she teared her wings off.
Kyle Marston OMG
Wow dark
How do we know she tore her own wings off. It could of been celestia or maybe someone or something else did it and she blames the princess for it.
Dark I love it
@@nicke9012 what does it look like!
And its perfectly at where her wings would be.
She cut them off and sowed the hole
i was not expecting the plot twist and the fact she cut her own wings...jeez, that's really dark but really well done!
Shadow Twilight Sparkle : But you should feel angry! you should hate her!
Twilight Sparkle : Excuse you, We may be similar but you ARE NOT,
Chie : Don't say it!
Twilight Sparkle : ME!
Shadow Twilight Sparkle : You... you... PUPPET! Boss music starts
HA! Nice P4 reference! I was thinking the same thing actually when I saw that moment!
Kierre Thomas I am a shadow, the true self!
Technically, she kind of is, isn’t she?
You're going to have a really *BAD TIME* .
I have perfect boss music for this:
th-cam.com/video/2dPaVk4G1jg/w-d-xo.html
I don't how people will view this so let me give my understanding. This grey Twilight (Grey) isn't evil, nor wants to harm nor wishes to corrupt the main twilight (Main) Grey only wants to understand why following faith in the rawest form is a good idea when in her timeline she doesn't understand why she has to go through the pain of faith. The differeance between Grey and Main is when tested by faith of friendship grey had a second thought. This isn't a bad thing, if anything Grey's points in celestia's plans and logic are accurate in all acpects, and Main answers back in a way to only deny Grey in a base understanding of why celestia's plans will be of benifit and so faithfull that it will work. Grey will never see the other side since it was lost to her, she only sees the natural logic, so then the argument breaks down from a path of faith to a path of true logic. Again, both side arn't wrong. Their are so many variables in anyone's personal plan it's hard to see the results untill they are shown, when Grey asks why doesn't Main follow her own path grey fails to understand that her view point is different and so asking that question is pointless since grey will never hear main's answer since she will never be open to it because her view point is different to mains. And when Main does show action she personally chooses to follow the faith of Celestia that Grey still can't understand. Following your own path in life means you see things how YOU want to, others can only INFLUENCE it. Defending on how YOU see things isn't the same as OTHERS react to it. This is a thing that happens, if people can't accept that then they are not open to opinion. That's the fact of Faith in friendship. You believe the other person won't screw you over because YOU believe that they won't, no need to question, no need to judge. That's the Faith of Friendship. Once that's broken, then you start to question.
that and think she was just sacred. scared of the responsibility and all that comes with it. gray didn't see the faith Celestia had for her and thought that it must be some form of control. thought all the care and love was fake. so she took what she thought was the logical choice and lashes out when anything goes against it. like main. and thus is left whimpering on the floor desperately trying to cling to a lie to cover up her fear.
That is a powerful lession to learn.
@@Orsonfoe And scared of loss, loss of friends as she lives on while they age and die.
Your point of view make me remember something. Remember the video of firebrand taking a royal problem too seriously? In that video, firebrand make a refrences about a justice league episod where superman from the other world where flash has die and superman change the justice league to justice lord if i not mistaken came and attack the real world? And there superman reveal that he always has that thought. Firebrand make that refrences to the day breaker. What if main twilight has all this thought that grey twlight have in a back of her mind but she believe in celestia more then grey twilight have and accept her destiny. Like he say for superman it was the death of flash but celestia AND twilight who knows what could it be. Well like i say its just a thought.
Orsonfoe -- something happened that caused grey Twi to hurt very badly, even if its true that Celestia loves her, grey Twi no longer trusts it. I also suspect that she is more afraid of baseless hope (faith) for understandable reasons= it cost her dearly. And the primary cast are completely impotent to understand it as they don’t think the same way, and don’t hurt the same way.
9:10 "If Celestia had dealt with the problem using magical aggression without due process, that's no better than being a bully or tyrant."
Cozy Glow, Chrysalis and Tirek have furiously entered the chat.
But honestly, great work. Sometimes I get the feeling that the writers had no real plan or clue how to write Celestia, or even if it was worth analysing for that reason. Yet this animation reminded me of how much potential the early seasons of FiM had.
If only this animation weren't just a big mouthpiece for Josh's simping of Celestia's bad character. Huh, Johnny?
TL;DR: fate is a bitch, both Twi's are valid, except Gray's forcefulness
Honestly I think this is a great animation, but Vesper/Alt-Twi has a genuine point. This is a version of twilight that didn't want more, and found the concept of destiny to be crushing. The line that really gets me is when Celestia says she wanted Twi to be as great as she could be because it was her destiny, and all I could think was Vesper screaming that she didn't want this, that she wanted to make her own destiny, and that Celestia shouldn't get to decide.
Well I don’t think Celestia knew exactly what would happen she probably had a guess, but I don’t think she entirely knew what would happen. I have a theory about the Allicorn dimension and that Celestia rules over it and is teleported there to meet upcoming Allicorns. We just assume she knew everything, but how could she have been there at that exact moment to meet Twilight.
I'd imagine that when she stepped through the Sombra door, she never came out. This alternate dimension is the one where she didn't have the courage to face her greatest fear. She thought sun horse hated her for failing the test, which is what we see in Twilight's vision. Hence the glowy sombra eyes.
That’s.....actually a possibility, and could explain how this alternate dimension is still relatively similar. Although it wouldn’t explain why the Castle of the Two Sisters isn’t in ruin
Or maybe it could be discord’s doing. Because when they encountered discord didn’t they lose their colors?
This makes a lot of sence actually and it makes me really sad.Since if this is correct she and spike are basically trapped in a horror demention whilst her freinds are being killed or inslaved.
Drakainequus Yeah...
The thing I love so much about this is that Grey Twilight does make very good points, this debate is very realistic when it does come to the real world.
The only problem is that she’s also wearing the Alicorn Amulet. So her views are kinda butchered
Just like how I feel about God and what the world is around me.
as far as I'm concerned I'm was never even God's child to begin with
I love the take on Celestia’s role and decisions as a ruler, and how those decisions can be judged or lauded in various lights. Is she a benevolent autocrat, a tyrannical despot, a fool-hearty inept idealist that depended too much on luck and chance, or a strategist, working with what she had and strategically gambling her way to success? It could be any of these, and its an honestly interesting way to see her and her actions as a ruler
Dusty cat called, he wants his grandma's amulet back.
Lol
That’s the necklace Trixie used
@@mysticalkeyblade759 and still couldn't do magic worth anything. Discord did better magic in his sleep
@@colinbrown3170 ..I really dont think you should compare the Embodiment of Chaos itself to a silly trinket
@@darkwhispersstories47 it basically is. Shining armor or big Macs flanks have more power, besides it can't do anything without a host. Basically a piece of junk.
This made me feel like I was watching a full length episode again. Helps fill a bit of the hole left in the heart after losing the show, I’m very grateful.
“What is better? To be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?” Paarthurnax
Wise question
Lol reminds me that i have still one quest in skyrim open because it would be too cruel and there is no way to say no and close it .-.
I was looking for this 🤣
The definition of good varies between people to people. Having the power to overcome your inner darkness/evil and emerge stronger for it, I think is more rewarding.
The latter. The sensation of victory and accomplishment you get from it is something indescribible, and impossible to get drom the other option.
Well, this was certainly a very interesting turn of events. Talk about a twist of fate, I feel sorry for Vesper/Twilight. Seeing how much pain and suffering she went through, leading to the assumption that Celestia ruined her life was simply heartbreaking.
In any case, this was a very interesting MLP video. All of you who took part in this project, I applaud for all your efforts. Really, awesome job everyone!
SpacialRend7 -- who knows? Maybe Vesper was happy with friends learning and stability and never really wanted to be a princess, especially against her wishes (which is a violation of trust isn’t it, not very friendly?) . By definition that sounds like ruination to me. And I think it’s more heart breaking that she is even more alone than she though as prime Twi doesn’t care about what happens to her just that she should have more faith....
This is generally my take on things, Celestia put Twi and friends in real danger, they almost got killed many times, it was luck and some level of skill that got them out of things, but it wasn't that Celestia was lazy, that she was "testing" them so much as putting trust in Twi and friends, hoping for the best, because in the end, Celestia is not as powerful as Twi may think.
She is weakened from 1000 years of hardship, stress, and the fact she has had to raise the sun and moon, the emotional and magical toll on her body leaving her very weak, Luna still wasn't at full power after being brought back either, needing time to gain her energy back to where it was a pre-banishment, and Cadence was still really young and not as powerful as her aunts.
Which is why I'd disagree slightly with the whole Sombra thing, Celestia actively told her it was for her and her alone to do the task asked of her, it was lain out pretty clear Celestia wanted Twi to keep what she was doing secret and do it alone, the others were there to provide more moral and social support, to keep the Crystal ponies distracted.
Celestia and Luna didn't exactly beat Sombra on their own, they still where users of the EoH at the time, Sombra was more of a threat as a whole than he would have been as a shade, as he was the one that made the Crystal Empire disappear if the Royal Sisters are to be believed. If Twi failed, the mane 6, Cadence, and Shining Armor, as well as the Crystal Empire would have been lost, enslaved, or worse.
Celestia and Luna wouldn't have bested him as easily as they did the first time around, the emotional and mental burden would weigh on Celestia and the casualties would be high, as it would turn into a war, and the mental state of the Mane 6, Spike, Cadence, and Shining armor would be worse for wear even if they were freed from being slaves.
The price would have been heavy if Sombra won, as it was established that the Crystal Empire was a hub of great power, magical and emotional, that could taint the rest of Equestria. But if the only ponies able to resist and possibly stop Sombra were forced to be slaves or even killed, something similar to the Sombraverse may be the only answer, and it was the last resort, not first.
Seval Alrik
That’s what I thought as well, Sombra was a bigger threat than anyone actually gives him credit for, if it wasn’t for Spike everyone would’ve probably been doomed, and Sombra would’ve had some strong slaves to work with as well
@@hyperdreamer9483 Yeah, exactly, Sombra was a larger threat than he was made out to be, and him winning would have been bad since it was established The Crystal Empire was a major hub for positive energy, and if corrupted, it would corrupt the rest of the worlds energy. It's the one point when I really say Celestia took the largest Risk, with trusting DIscord to deal with Tirek being secondary.
Not that she has ever been a bad leader, she has made questionable choices, and done questionable things to keep power and "peace" for the ~1000+ years she has ruled. I am sure the Younger Celestia had done tons of terrible and shameful things to keep power and peace, like abusing the EoH to banish and basically torture entities, to make Equestria appear to be a Utopia, but the one we see in the show has been tempered a lot more, and more level headed.
“She doesn’t love ❤️ me.....” that’s so relatable.
one piece i'd like to add for the Discord segment
Technically Discord was a literal key part in helping to defeat Tirek, oh sure he still betrayed everyone, but prior to that he was making genuine attempts to be a good friend, outside of the Blue Flu incident, Discord actually highlighted a bunch of events from the book of friendship that clued Twilight and her friends on how they could open the box the Tree of Harmony created.
also
GOOD LORD THAT REVEAL!
also also
loved this, great job to everyone who worked on this project
He was the only one powerful enough to even stand a chance against Tirek.
@@saphiriathebluedragonknight375 If Discord Tried to actually defeat Tirek it will litterally be over in 3...4 sec. His magic is Too strong and Chaotic fot Tirek to take when he is weak it took him like the entire strenght of equestria to even attempt to contain discord magic
Yeah but really they should have at least sent some back up with him as moral support. Because lets face it they never really gave Discord a reason not to betray them plus he is a trickster in nature, you never trust a trickster as they are only ever on their own side. They make plans within plans within plans, and if you somehow figure out those plans you find out they have seven other plans within those plans all set to go.
that and discord helps the show, show that friendship is not easy. Most shows about making friend have any sort of problem just wrap up and very one gets along one hundred percent. this show does not and discord shows that. all the other characters merely tolerated him and he knew that, which is why he came off more mean spirited prankster with the others. also why Tirek's little speech about false friends being imprisonment and such was abled to swayed discord.
Even though Discord is nigh omnipotent and effortlessly defeat Tirek then Twilight and her friends what mystery that Tree of Harmony is trying to give to her. To find out what’s Twilight’s purpose.
A wonderful answer to the "is Celestia is a manipulating tyrant?" question. Though I myself always interpreted Twilight's as something coming from within Twilight herself, rather than Celestia casting a "Turn Into Alicorn" spell. She may have guided Twilight down the path, but I believe only Twilight is ultimately the source of her ascension.
Extra kudus for adressing the speciest assumption on the dragon part in particular. It's is something I so rarely see addressed, especially since the dragon migration, where an entire horde flies across the entire width of Equestria without incident, shows that dragons have no desire to go out and harm ponies.
Two things I noticed Vesper was forgetting: One is that being a leader is gonna leave you in a constant position of risky decision making, and two is the fact that Celestia, of all people, was the one who admitted to Twilight that she was afraid that she wouldn't need her anymore. (Since Vesper is so upset that Celestia "ruined" her life as being just her student.)
Agreed. And even in the flashback of when Celestia was pacing back and forth in the throne room she was worried about Twilight, in my opinion she was worrying about Twilight like she was her own daughter. Being a ruler is hard and even when the hardest of battles comes up you have to think fast and what is best for the safety of a kingdom and those who you serve to protect as their ruler.
@@celestiafanforever That is another good point. Celestia did spend over a thousand years ruling alone, so she would probably be more on edge about making decisions that may or may not change those people's lives. She's spent well over a millennia to become as good as she is, and all that while keeping up a front for her subjects so they can go on about their lives like normal. If the ruler is happy, then the people have no cause for alarm.
P.S.: Also, before anyone brings up the possibility that Vesper started to go downhill before what Celestia had to say in Celestial Advice, Celestia did reassure her that she was still her student right after she got turned into an alicorn back in Magical Mystery Cure, the only difference being that Twilight was now a leader-in-the-making and a teacher to Celestia as well.
@@frenchiesottises8193 she did rule a thousand years by herself which I agree with what you said about her being more on edge. Though she missed Luna she knew that maybe she would get Luna back. She just had to kept their subjects safe that day even if it meant losing the only family member she had.
@@celestiafanforever And I don't blame her for making such a risky decision. Sure, she can rule by herself just fine, but having two rulers is far better than having the one. A prime example of this is the fact that Luna is the only one who can travel from dream to dream and has a degree of control over said dreams, effectively putting a stop to possible trauma and damage to the victim's psyche.
Also, Luna's Celestia's little sister. It was obvious that she would make such a risky gamble. You could make the argument that it was selfish of her to do it, but it can be countered by the fact that Celestia loves Luna and ruling alone knowing she's the one who banished her would, understandably, drive her crazy. She even has to carry the burden that she didn't bother to address Luna's jealousy. She knew if she did, Luna wouldn't have spent all those years in the moon. A fault on her end, yes, but Celestia is also not perfect. It's probably also why she's always seen trying to get Twilight, someone who is very by the book, to let loose a little. Who isn't to say that Luna's banishment made Celestia realized that she was too cold towards those she interacted with? She was taught under Starswirl after all, and we all know how he was when he returned.
@@frenchiesottises8193 if only starswirl knew what had became of Luna then I guess he might be disappointed in her since he was her teacher. But also happy to see that Luna returned to her sister's side.
For Pete's sake he said "once a villain always a villain" and yet there is Luna and Discord, one In which fell into darkness caused by jealousy and the other just wanted to turn all of Equestria upside down both turned good.
Okay, first off: Ow, Alt-Twilight cut her own wings off! That's disturbing, horrible and I can see where she's coming from.
Second: this was an enjoyable debate. It's like watching a flame war between others and yourself. Looking at Alt-twilight reminds me of myself when I first saw the season 3 finale. I absolutely hated it with a passion and thought this was the end of what I thought was a great show because I thought they just said 'screw it' and slapped wings on Twilight and called her princess. I still don't like the season 3 finale for obvious reasons, but I don't want to reopen past wounds. But, what's done is done. As for Celestia, I'm on Alt-twilight's side on this. She should've asked her how she felt instead of doing nothing and gave her a scroll without telling her beforehand if it would cause trouble. But, again, what's done is done.
Honestly, this was engaging and I loved every minute of it. Still felt bad for Alt-twilight, though.
Dashzilla93 -- this work brings up two things- one, that “destined for more” some how only means being a princess, and two, that Twilight Sparkle is not an inspiration nor a role model to follow because she doesn’t care what’s been done to her or what it’s cost her because “friendship”
I detested season 3 as well and I didn’t buy into it ever since- and this apathy and inconsideration and narrow mindedness has merely proven to me that the show dropped from an inspiration to merely idea fodder.
I suspect alt twi simply loved what she had and primary Twi by her own admission doesn’t care as long as she has the same company. And I doubt alt Twi will ever be able to forgive and let go what’s been done to her, merely eventually remove herself from the reminders and move on as best she can. Because I think she’s found something that hurts her even more than Celestia- primary Twi who doesn’t care, and clearly no one took the time to listen and to accept that can never meant should or must. So alt Twi feels all the more alone, and friendship seems all the more fake because of the inconsistencies and ideal over reason pushing.
Dashzilla93
Call Alt-Twilight
The Dark Beast Version
Dark Beast Twilight
Dashzilla93
Agreed with you on Dark Beast Twilight’s view. What Cell(Celestia/Tia) did destroyed millions of innocent people that don’t deserve to be hurt or dead because of person’s cruel and heinous act that would rock the entire planet forever and led to mass hatred permanently.
6 years and you still not accepted it?
Charleston ho
Me?
The Dark Twilight is essentially her doubts, fears, and flaws personified (in a way). She's also a prime example of what happens when you let your resentment and hatred control and consume you, letting it take over and corrupt everything you stand for and believe in
I love how this project was portrayed. It was engaging in the way of a fanfic yet intriguing in the way of a theory/review. All the animation was amazing and the the voice acting was really impressive! I really appreciate the time y’all put into this.
Patiton for full fan episode about the origins of lights out sparkle
👇
She had the same reaction I would to a teacher constantly manipulating me like that.
Anger, frustration, and loathing.
I hereby sighn the petition
*petition
I wish Sunset Shimmer would've still been included in the animated version like she was in the fanfic. Nevertheless, this is a masterpiece. Both the animation and the voice were done so well!
Which fanfiction? Tell me please 😅id love to know it
@@kittykatswirl4088this fanfic. It's at the start.
I have always been a big fan of the idea that Twilight views Celestia as a second mom and Celestia sees Twilight as a surrogate daughter.
That moment when Celestia and Twilight just have a brief heart to heart over the Princess issue feels like what I wanted to see yet so authentic.
The last 5 minutes had me sobbing.
Literally everything I wish I heard as a child just wrapped up nicely into an animation.
We can only hope that she can at the very least find some form of peace.
... I literally just found this and I have no words for how good this is... the animation is accurate, the story is written beautifully, and the voice acting was so well done, Twilight's crying almost drove me to tears... I have only encountered one other piece of fan media that was so well done as the original, I would believe the fan-made story was actually part of that universe... amazing job to this team, I loved this
This was such a miraculous and spectacular animation i love it, everyone did such a grand and phenomenal job major props and kudos to you all for giving us this masterpiece, this was a real joy to watch!!!....although i feel bad for Vesper.
Also commenter congratulations on 1000 subscribers 🎉🎉🎉
The fact that this was afic i only listened to a cople times it was much longer but it kept that story it was amazing.
16:51 Technically that was Cerberus' fault since tirek escaped when Cerberus left his post. How can prisoners be kept under control if you don't have guards to ensure that they don't try to escape
Very nice. Though perhaps for me, it still feels like Luna continually gets the shaft. Celestia says they’d rule together as sisters, all the while planning to put Twilight in charge while Luna is stuck playing dream psychiatrist. How is that fair? That instead of using her thousand years of experience ruling Equestria to teach her younger sister how to rule, Celestia instead focuses her efforts on raising her favorite student.
To me the last season never sat well. Luna spends a thousand years imprisoned, and only spends a morning actually in the role of leader. And that was thanks to Starlight. Celestia never bothered to help Luna learn what was as needed to be a ruler. Luna was just relegated to a support role and nothing more. Even Cadence gets to rule the Crystal Empire. But Luna? She’s basically the night security guard.
If nothing else, Celestia’s real folly was never helping her own sister achieve her own destiny.
i would like to question that:
we don't know what celestia does all the time. thanks to a royal problem we have a rough idea of what a typical day for her looks like, but ruling is more then typical days. is luna not also often there when there's a crisis?
then there's the difference between the two. celestia appears to be quite in her element in a crowd. luna not so much. we see her enjoy her time during nightmare night, but that's in just a small village, would she thrive as a public face? or does she instead thrive while helping people in dreams? a place where she finds appreciation on a very personal level, the thing she lacked before which was so bad she turned evil for it. they could share the day duty, it would make celestia's life easier. yet she doesn't ask her. i think because she knows it's not what would make her happy.
i think luna has followed her own destiny. the dream psychiatrist of the land, a role she seems born for, a role in which she is happy.
(also allow me to thank you for a provocative statement which got me out of the mind broken state the animation left me in)
@@vinx.909 Thing is we never see anyone appreciate what Luna does. Not even Celestia until she had to be in that position. Celestia admitting how lonely that is as Luna has to do it every single night, always by herself. There's no evidence suggesting anyone appreciates Luna for seeing to their mental well being while they're asleep. After all, how many can completely recount what happens in a dream?
And while certainly Luna hasn't done well with crowds, that only seems to be when she's by herself and it being an important job. While I again state that she was never taught how to perform those same tasks from Celestia. Luna was perfectly fine during a Canterlot Wedding. It's only when she's thrust into a task she's not prepared for that Luna bends under the pressure. Something easily remedied had she been given tutelage on these matters.
I would also say that Luna's not entirely happy there. Again, she was promised by Celestia that they'd rule together, yet Luna is relegated to the background. So when Luna was put into the spotlight for a day, no other pony really knew how to proceed aside from just treating her as they do Celestia. Instead of a regent or advisor that could come and help Luna with the day's schedule and ease her into how Celestia handles all these tasks and meetings, Luna had to go in blind and unprepared, which only added to her stress.
We also saw before how Luna would punish herself nightly with the Tantabus for her role as Nightmare Moon. Which was still rather excessive. And yet Luna's own state of mind was something Celestia didn't notice. Celestia didn't know or couldn't see how much her own sister was hurting. From which we could gather as meaning that they don't spend all that much time interacting with each other, despite having been apart for so long.
There's also something else. Despite the seeming importance of Luna's role, helping ponies and such in their dreams for their mental health, who was in charge of that for the millennium that Luna was banished to the Moon? Apparently no one since Celestia only took up the task of raising/lowering the sun and moon herself, and there was no group of Unicorns or such who was tasked to take up Luna's job as dream doctor. And yet Equestria still got along just fine without Luna's assistance in their subconscious.
Looking at it like that, whether or not Luna was around for that job, everything still proceeded along without any major issues on the part of the populace. So how important is Luna's literal dream job if there were no negative repercussions during her absence? Sure Luna says she had failed somepony once before, but shouldn't she have instead alluded to failing so many ponies during her imprisonment? Yet no such thing is brought up by anyone. Not even Celestia.
Plus there was the episode where Twilight was in charge while Luna and Celestia went on vacation. Luna wasn't doing any dream chasing during that time. Which just lessens the importance of the task itself. And if it's not fundamentally necessary for her to do all the time, then Luna should have a great deal of time to rule alongside Celestia and learn how to govern the nation. Yet the only time the two are ever in the same room is when a special political event is happening or it's some emergency. It's pretty much never to just hang out and lead the country.
Also np.
@@darthgeist3966
on the topic of being appreciated: just yesterday i rewatched "For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils", if that and "Sleepless in Ponyville" are anything to go by then people are appreciative of luna. i saw the problem in "a royal problem" as the conflict between the sisters where it's just celestia not taking luna's daily struggles seriously.
on the topic of doing well in crowds: drawing of personal experience (which may vary wildly between people of course) i'd say that practice may not do a damned thing. while she does sometimes deal with crowds this may be because she knows when she has to appear and can prepare herself. another point could also be that she can appear in crowds, but it's tiring for her. this could be practiced to be less tiring, but if one isn't made for the public spotlight should they be forced into it?
on the topic of not really being happy: this looks are just speculation not based on anything. not everyone wants to be in the foreground.
on the topic of celestia not paying enough attention to luna: this could be rather damning, yet once more my personal experience forces me to forgive her for that point. i suffered from yearly depression for 8 years while living and interacting with my very attentive parents, yet they didn't notice it. when you try to keep something hidden you'd be surprised what you can get away with. luna didn't let celestia know in any way about the tantabus, not even letter her know that she released. can celestia be blamed for being in the dark on something she was deliberately kept in the dark about?
on the topic of luna's job not being mandatory: 100% correct. yet i don't know what this would argue for. how many years did humanity not have psychiatrists yet did survive? does that mean that it's not a good thing to have? same with music, yet does that mean that musicians aren't following their own path by being musicians while doing something not strictly mandatory?
on the topic of luna having time left next to protecting dreams to rule: i'd argue that she does, but this requires some speculation so let me explain. first we see luna anything a crisis citation is in progress. in these cases they seem to clearly share the roll of the ruler. i would assume this means that that this isn't just for crisis's we see but also big events that don't happen in an episode. secondly the really speculative one: i'd argue that luna does aid in the official daily routine, but in the background. i base this of two things: the royal sisters have breakfast/dinner together. of course in a royal problem not a lot is discussed, yet they both show up even though they are both exhausted, i'd think this implies a strong routine. i'd think that this would normally be a time when they discuss problems. this is also based of how luna could survive town hall seemingly without problems other then it draining her which i think shows that she is equipped for it. i would argue that luna and celestia discus important topics during their shared meals. but like i said, this is speculation.
another point that can be brought up is that celestia is great at helping others reach their potential. this is of course most obvious in twilight, but i'd argue that she has done the same for luna. allowing her to start her dreamwalking and take less or potentially no load of celestia because it's helping luna reach a place where she's happiest and flourishes.
now you definitely bring up good points. i can see where you are coming from and some of your points where definitely hard to have an argument against. i just think there's a more positive view that can also be taken, much like in the very animation we are discussing under, and i think the more positive view also has merit.
That just made me realize, did Luna even want to retire?
@@peterbutler1232 i'd say that's a definite yes. in the beginning of the end Luna is immediately talking about what she wishes to do (th-cam.com/video/lwVqzyFb8kA/w-d-xo.html), clearly having made some plans for what she wanted to do once she retired. i don't think she'd do that if she didn't want to retire.
It's been what? Almost a year that Fim has ended? And the fandom still churns out amazing content regularly. Mlp will continue to live on. Forever.
Watching this with everything in mind after the show and everything you can really see how this could have played out in the show. There is a lot of foreshadowing that starts to appear as Celestia and Luna prepare to step down by the end of the show to make way for a new ruler, which is Twilight. You can really see the pain she could possibly be feeling inside, doubting herself and all she is worth. Feeling alone and afraid despite having friends. These are real struggles that she faces and it only becomes more apparent when you closely analyze everything the show has to offer.
Thank you to the artists and everyone who worked on this. It's an amazing project and I really like the take that you all put on to this.
Twilight: "That's speciest!"
Me: "Someone else who gets it!"
I think grey twilight have experienced a lot of terrifying experience probably she might suffer from PTSD
That and the alicorn amulet twists the wearer's mind to be spiteful also she seems to have been using the same shadow magic that sombra used.
True
At least she still had some common sense albeit a little warped.
Y'know, even though this is just fanfiction, I felt a strange sense of...closure from this.
Though I was never one to think that Celestia was evil or incompetent, you couldn't help but wonder why she did things the way she did. But this, was good.
Thank you all for making this.
I love how people are not insulting Celestia like half of the mlp fandom.
This animation is just perfection, though!
Over all a nicely written counter argument to anti-Celestia sentiments with a strong emotional through line. I do have major quibble however.
When Twilight was sent to the Crystal empire she didn't just decide entirely of her own accord that she was meant to perform that test without the help of her friends. Celestia specifically told her _"...in the end, it must be you and you alone who ultimately assists Princess Cadance and Shining Armor in doing what needs to be done to protect the Empire."_ It also seems unlikely Twilight misinterpretated those instructions as Celestia later conceded, _"Far better that I have a student who understands the meaning of self-sacrifice than one who only looks out for her own best interests."_
That wasn't the last time Celestia would try to drive wedge between Twilight and her friends either, as later when she entrusted her with safeguarding all of the alicorn magic from Tirek, she again told Twilight not tell her friends, ostensibly for their own protection, but inadvertently putting them in even more danger instead. I think maybe both examples illustrate what might be Celestia's TRUE folly, that for all her age and wisdom she's never really understood what friendship is. It's why she couldn't protect Luna from falling to darkness, it's why her own connection to the Elements of Harmony was broken, and it's why Twilight (not to mention Sunset before her) as her student had such a poor grasp of friendship before going to Ponyville because it was a subject Celestia was ill-suited to teach her.
As further example of Celestia's inability to understand the true meaning of friendship. When she sought to have Discord reformed, it was never because she thought he deserved a second chance, but in her own explicate words because _"I have use for Discord's magic, if it can be reformed to serve good instead of evil."_
I don't think Celestia is a tyrant or incompetent, just an old and lonely pony isolated from the world by the burden of her own authority. She might do a better job of faking it, but her way of thinking is just as archaic and out of touch as Luna's. I think that's maybe why she decided to step down and pass the crown to Twilight, a new pony to guide future generations.
I don't know why but this theory should have been true because friendship is not something you can learn in class you need to go outside and meet new people to make friends.
I love the way your animation captures the moral grey areas and moral questions by showing that in certain situations Celestia could be seen as neglectful but then again she could be seen as someone who looks at the bigger picture and sees the final outcome and tries to make sure that it is as positive as possible and sometimes that may seem like she is dismissive but in really she is simply focusing in the future.
I think personally that perhaps as much as ‘ Vesper ‘ adored Celestia (probably as much as our Twilight) she maybe didn’t REALLY want to be an alicorn in might have been more of a childish fantasy, as I’m sure many fillies have, rather than a true hearts desire. This is probably why she was so upset at becoming an alicorn. Our Twilight and Vesper probably had SLIGHTLY different true hearts desires fundamentally.
Another thing I love is the fact that you show just how deeply affected a person can be when something is done to them without consent as seen by the fact that out of every question, point and argument made during Twilight and Vesper’s debate Vesper chooses specifically to ask about being turned into an alicorn without consent not to mention the fact that she literally CUT off her wings. In the case of our Twilight she was okay with it because that was what she would have wanted if given the choice but to Vesper she didn’t give her consent to be altered permanently so since Celestia didn’t ask that must mean she doesn’t care when in truth she did it cause she thought it would make Vesper happy.
Also Vesper and Twilight both make good points about trust. As a friend you don’t need to have a reason to trust your friend you just do cause trust is apart of friendship. That being said blindly following leaders is not healthy. Celestia wasn’t wrong in extending trust to discord but she should have done it when the ENTIRE fate of Equestria wasn’t in danger especially considering Discord at that point had not exactly proven himself loyal to Equestria. At that point he had presented himself as a chaotic neutral observant party and not a real loyal friend except perhaps with his behavior towards Fluttershy. The risk in that case was simply greater than the supposed reward. Discord probably would not have been hurt if he wasn’t chosen.
Can I just say, that voice actor for Luna is pretty much spot on?
Thank you.
I love Celestia as a person but Dark Twilight is kind of right
Both of them are right in a way.
@@Arthus850 Vesper is somewhat right in her criticisms of Celestia's failures, but Twilight is right in that they're just that... mistakes. Never out of lack of concern for Twilight.
Maybe, but she's clearly blinded by her disilusionment and hatred. She can't accept that Celestia may have truly cared for her even if her intentions were not desirable.
No one is perfect not even Celesta she has made her sure of mistakes but in the end she always finds a way to set them right
Randy Williams -- I suspect that in grey’s case it hasn’t been made right not because she’s overly focused on bitterness but rather it can’t be made right, not in the way she would wish as it was made impossible by the alicornation- that occurring without council or consent shattered grey’s faith and took away what she loved- she did thirst for more, and she was not okay with being made to have more “earned” or not, not at the cost of her peace.
That was absolutely positively unequivocally incredible. This just makes me love twilight sparkle even more despite her flaws.
Massive kudos to Twilight Sparkle's VA. For almost the whole video I was having trouble distinguishing between her and Tara Strong.
Same for a while anyways.
I think that one of the main points that grey twilight forgot to mention is immortality.
Yes she mentioned about being turned into a princess intentional from Celestia...but what she said here 26:43
I'm not sure, the princess of friendship doesn't need alicorn magic to become more powerful and to ”reach their full potential” Friendship is something that doesn't need power but the power is from the friends themselves.
Grey twilight sees immortality as a way to not live forever, but the heartache of losing her friends someday and doesn't want to see it.
Which is the reason she cut her wings off...
This is really interesting it’s basically a allegory for fandom interpretation vs the shows actual meaning it’s really cool
"Neither of us are gaining ground here"
No, no no you're not gaining ground here twilight. Two examples have been shown and two could have been resolved by celestia being more involved at that point.
For Luna... No? She knew she could not beat her‚ and that the Elements were the only solution. So she sent the six ponies with a growing friendship that could use them. Litterally the best move. Her being there could have made Luna lash out and kill the mane 6 before they could use the Elements. With the dragon‚ she likely could have killed it‚ or whatever‚ and what? Spark a war with the dragon kingdom? Nobody wants that. Her being a diplomat would be nmore realistic‚ but then again why? The dragon was not aggressive‚ he only wanted to be left alone‚ so more of a friendship problem than anything. And Celestia has a lot of things to do‚ as seen in a Royal Problem. Things that Twilight is not fit to accomplish‚ such as discussing with aristocrats and taking decisions for the kingdom. She again took the best decision by letting the friendship specialist take care of the friendship problem and herself to take care of the royal one.
@@benikujaku4567 Actually Celestia was lucky NMM didn't decide to kill the Mane 6 directly when they were going to find the Elements. She was clearly holding back and tried to scare the girls off, if she wasn't messing around then most likely the girls would be dead before the journey even began.
@@nightshroud9671 Well‚ yeah. This is exactly why it was necessary to make the ponies look harmless. If herself or an army was there‚ Nightmare Moon would have just blasted everyone without waiting
The turning twilight into an alicorn without asking question reminded me of a quote from a story I can't quite remember
"Those best suited for power are those that don't want it"
Yeah, Optimus didn't feel like he was ready to be prime.
Being a little late, but:
The alternative Twilight seems to exhibit symptoms resemble PTSD (Almost sure she suffer actual PTSD, but I am not a psychiatrist and even if I was we didn't see enough for a sure verdict) and that actually make her resentment for Celestia much more understandable. Even if each of the events can be justified, Twilight was put in a place where she was responsible for all of Equestria, and was put in peril multiple times a year for several years in a row.
Even if she thought she ready, even if she wanted it, Celestia should not have let her be in this position so often. And if she had to because Celestia could not solve it or send anyone else, that is an evidence for incompetency. I also think that something called personal example would be important here, although to be fair we don't really know what happened before season 1 so maybe Twilight already had enough examples from Celestia and Celestia wanted her to learn from other ponies as well?
Now, I will keep the trend of being more fair. Each season of the show had to have some high level stakes. After the first episode showing Nightmare Moon, the stakes couldn't be lowered later on. It would also force Twilight and her friends to be the main solution, since they are the main characters.
In addition, while in the real world Twilight should visit a therapist, I understand why the show didn't handle this (and if it had, I am 60% sure it would have butchered it, and I might still be optimistic here).
So given all of this, the video did show me Celestia in a new light. I disagree with her choices, but I can see a version where they can be justified within the format. The turning to Alicorn is worse if it was Celestia doing, but it was Twilight spell, powered by the Elements of Harmony that done it in my opinion. The turning to a princess is Celestia doing and is a little jarring, but I guess it might be within the allowance a show of this nature should be allowed. I also thing that there was a possibility the show would have end with this episode, and it is kinda fitting for a possible final - Twilight proved herself and start new kind of life.
To summary, I still believe Celestia was wrong, but mostly when analyzing it using real world logic rather than in world one.
However, everything I said? That true about the main Celestia. The question whether alternative Celestia did or didn't love her Twilight is irrelevant. The only reason I give main Celestia slack is that her plan worked. Success is not a justification on its on, but it let me believe that she might've jumped in to help had something happened. I can believe she listened to and understood main Twilight, seeing that main Twilight was willing and ready. Alternative Twilight wasn't. So while it doesn't relate to whether alternative Celestia should rules, it means that she failed alternative Twilight at the very least.
I heard a theory that when the elements blasted her, twilight died right then and there and was reborn as a alicorn
TL;DR: Twilight's Nobody kidnapped Twilight
This is Josh we're talking about. Kingdom Hearts is his whole scene.
@@kingcamelot1395 I think he basically *breathes* Kingdom Hearts.
One of 4 things to realize about Josh:
1. The sky is blue
2. The grass is green
3. Kingdom Hearts is light
4. Pinkie Pie, don't question it!
I hope leaving her there was a good idea, would be REALLY dark if it turned out Alt Celestia is really as bad as Alt Twi claimed.
@Isabella Burns if you look closely it does look like shes glaring at first, but after she blinks she gives a softer look, like shes thinking: "Whats going on he- oh...its you..." But not in an angry tone, more of a "I know you don't like me, but that doesn't mean we can't be civil about it." kind of look.
This is beautifully animated and acted. The story is very powerful! The gray Twilight reminds me of so many people who can only see their own pain. Fantastic job to everyone involved. I was near tears and watched twice already.
Seeing a version of Twilight that angry and broken tore out my heart. Amazing animation and voicework, and generally an entertaining story, even if the twist was a bit obvious. Still, fanwork or not, real or not, enjoyable or not, proper dimension or not, as a dedicated Twilight Sparkle fan I feel obligated to say: Never hurt my purple angel like that again OR I WILL END YOUR F%$&ING WORLD!!
Are you fr
Agreed do not hurt the purple book loving angel 😤. I loved this tho
Why do I have a feeling that this has something to do with silver quill
Ok who that mysterious Pony talking to Princess Twilight Sparkle? Because i not going by that name so she a bad pony right there i call her ??? for now.
SAME IDK WHY BUT I'M just like
"wait Why does this feel like silverquil did something"
In the credits "for salvaging the initial story concept"
@@masterchefofbuildingsupplies Ok is Sliverquil a master maid or something?
@@CurtyTails Ok then.
This really shows being a perfectionist. Especially from childhood. Its exhausting your concious and yourself fight over and over about right and wrong and how to live your life instead of being a puppet. Learning to accept ut and grow from it or letting it destroy you. Letting go of such a cycle and living life completely knew although its hardand scary. This video literally represents my childhood and life omg..
Wowe u got feelings while typing these down, this essay is awesome 👌🏻
The moment when Ventus’s theme from Kingdom Hearts played when Celestia began talking to “Vesper” was like a huge hit there.
KH’s themes are always beautiful...
Agreed. The theme is so perfect for so many situations.
Hey, What do you think would be a good name for the other twi? Shadowlight or Darksparkle? Or Shadow sparkle or Dark light?
@@NormalGirl02she said vesper. So I guess… Vesper Greylight?
I feel like Celestia’s rule is somewhat contradictory. By all accounts, she is an absolute monarch, or is functionally in diarchy with Luna, although it appears Luna tends to deal with more personal or I suppose one could call it spiritual affairs, while Celestia deals with the temporal, the governing of Equestria. However, we never see her act as an absolute monarch, but more like a constitutional one. She doesn’t possess any kind of restrictions or codifications of her power, nor any governing body which she would appoint, but we never see her dealing with complexities of single-handedly governing a nation, more dealing with public events, audiences, charity, or perhaps intervening more directly when necessary, while Equestria seems to be almost autonomously governed, with local governments dealing with most affairs, such as we see with Ponyville or Manehatten. It’s honestly quite strange, and would imply Celestia’s style of governing is equivalent to the real-life ideological positions of Integralism, or at least possessing very similar ideological qualities.
Phillip Perhaps, but that would emphasis delegation, or self-restriction. It’s the only example we see of such regulation and I’m quite sure Celestia if she so choose could probably overrule it
CanadianPrince We know Twilight sure as hell overruled it. “I’m going to create my own institution in order to bypass the national laws and standards applied to all schools to ensure the safety and education of students” seems like the epitome of corruption of power, regardless of Neighsay’s bigotry.
Christopher Pratt Technically she did so was Celestia backing her meaning the action isn’t as legally dubious as one might think, and Neighsay did eventually come around
@@Livetwo8 i mean the Monarchi backed up Her claims of The school need to act out of the System in order to be functional.
And lets be real here If it was for Laws to be the same as ours Neightsay would have ben removed because of Speciesm, almost causing world war ponies,and Indoctronation of Racism and Bigotry in young ponies Minds (pretty much what Celestia said in the same Episode. NO pony is allowed to do that)
The topic of Friendship is outside of the Laws and Celestia saw reasons to it.
Neightsay didnt even act according to the law or even took it with the rest of his own Council he acted soly on his own
"we never see her dealing with complexities of single-handedly governing a nation"
I think that's because it would be boring, rather than because that's not one of her responsibilities.
27:20 Gray Twilight: "Why did you make everything change?"
Me: Because nothing can be the same forever and Celestia saw your potential.
She may not be a goddess,but she did what she did in order to protect her subjects,her sister and you.
To be fair, I feel like a lot of the decisions Celestia put Twilight through up to the Season 3 finale were mainly due to the fact that Nightmare Moon and Discord could only really be defeated with the Elements of Harmony, something she had lost her connection to and thus needed whoever reconnected them to help her (though she could’ve helped Twilight a bit more when it looked like Discord had won). Other events like the wedding and Sombra were more unexpected. However, her attitude towards Twilight tended to shift a lot- from being almost motherly to being rude (her letter in the premier) to downright turning her back on Twilight way too quickly during the wedding episode. Those I can overlook, though. A lot of have those moments, after all. What I can’t overlook is the season 3 finale itself. It was pretty much completely set up by Celestia to test Twilight in becoming the Princess of Friendship by...fixing her friends’ cutie marks, which are by no means related to friendship but talent? If anything, Princess of Magic would’ve been a proper titled and it STILL would’ve been contested by later characters like Starlight Glimmer. Plus, considering what we’ve seen before and what happened in later seasons, that seems like a pretty stupid test in comparison. If you’re gonna have Twilight prove she’s ready, this is more of a situation where you let something REAL prove it to you. On top of even that, Twilight didn’t have any choice in the matter. It was thrust onto her like some kind of predetermined destiny. That’s a good way of making her possibly feel like her whole life was decided for her, that her original dreams are nothing, even if her dreams did match up to becoming a princess. Even Discord’s scheme in Season 9 was more real than that, at least up until the point he HAD to reveal it because the villains became too strong.
If it were me, and this is a stretch, I would’ve honestly written it something like this:
I would’ve had Celestia look back on her defeat during the wedding and fearing she lost her combat edge over the years (whether true or not). Then, as an apology to Twilight and to ask a favor of her, she takes her student aside and tells her that the time has come for there to be a fourth alicorn, one who can succeed where she fears she and Luna might fail. However, only a pony who has overcome a great obstacle without falling down a path of darkness (such as Discord’s corruption) will react to the ancient spell, and she feels that Twilight is one such pony. She then asks Twilight if she would accept this responsibility, and Twilight accepts, becoming an alicorn based on her own choice. The series largely continues as normal, but Twilight is avoided or even feared by other ponies due to being a an alicorn- a pony known to be the most powerful race- and it makes her feel, but she vows to hold her head high. Cue Magical Mystery Cure, and it’s where Ponyville flocks to Twilight not just as a hero or leader of the Mane 6, but their leader. This prompts Celestia to once again take Twilight aside and tell her of her accomplishments, along with the support she gained from the other ponies. She then tells Twilight that it is clear to her that while Twilight’s current status as a common alicorn is more than enough for Equestrian to be safe, everything she’s done seems becoming of a full-blown leader of Equestria. Twilight fears not being able to shoulder the responsibility of being a princess, but when Celestia asks her her thoughts, she makes the request that her friends will be allowed to help her. Celestia laughs and tells her she wouldn’t dream of it, for Twilight has more than earned the title of Princess of Friendship. Cue Twilight’s coronation, and the rest of the series continues largely as normal.
That aside, this was good at showing both sides of the argument. I used to hold something of an anti-Celestia stance, but that was back when I first joined the fandom. I’ve since left it, watched a few more episodes just to see how the series was doing, and I can’t help but see how they given Celestia much more personality in later seasons. I can see Vesper’s points, but I’m still on Twilight’s side. Celestia hasn’t done anything worth hating her for.
26:26
Twilight v2: "I hate you!"
**Thinks about hating a mentor plot** wait a second...
Anakin Skywalker: "I hate you!"
The difference is
Twilight hated that much responsibility
Anakin just wanted to save his love and saw Obi-Wan as getting away of the goal
@@anarchomando7707 you act like I asked 😒
She, Anakin and Sunset should start a club.
@@saphiriathebluedragonknight375 My little pony...my little pony....DUM DUM DUM DUM..DuM!
>The jedi failed Anakin too.
Alright, theory time. Let's start off with the gray appearance of Twilight. If we actually go back and watch where she turns gray in the show, it actually wasn't Discord that did it, it was simply Twilight giving up on her friends and cutie mark as the element of magic (Which we can assume she did in this timeline as she rejected her destiny). We can further support this using Pinkie Pie since she became a grey-ish color at the end of the first season. Second, the "Sombra" eyes, once again easily explained as we see Celestia use dark magic as well and gaining these eyes. So basically feelings of hate and anger fuel this kind of magic which is exactly what grey Twilight is doing. As to how she actually became so bitter...well we have to assume it came to ahead when she became an alicorn as it seems everything else is basically the same between these two timelines. The difference comes down to mental thinking, our Twilight saw it as huge honor. Gray Twilight sees it as only a curse, after all, all the duties Celestia attends to would take time away from her friends, she said as much. Friends she could count on to cover up her flaws. But the BIG thing is gray Twilight pushed her own failures and flaws onto Celestia, a process that had probably taken years. Simply watch our Twilight explain everything that went wrong was her overestimating her abilities, she saw her flaws. Gray Twilight pushed them onto someone else, the one pony who connected everything, Celestia. Gray Twilight even says "you don't deserve everyone's admiration" because thats how she sees it. Twilight is flawed and imperfect, not fit to be an alicorn. That's why when Celestia explains everything and why she did what she did...Gray Twilight breaks down, because she can't handle the fact that it's her own flaws she's upset at. And that's the tragic part, Celestia can't love Gray Twilight because Gray Twilight can't love herself. So she cut her wings off, to get rid of the symbol of something she doesn't believe she deserves.
As for the alicorn amulet, how she got it can only be speculation but I'm sure it made her hate towards Celestia much worse...this delusion of Celestia setting Twilight up to fail. And as for Celestia being an actual tyrant in this timeline, doubtful as Gray Twilight herself admits the only difference is that she saw Celestia as an evil dictator. (Which is untrue)