I have seen loads of vids of this road and it never fails to amaze me with the breathtaking scenery and hats off to the engineers. Great stuff cheers shaaf
I love your riding man, but my favourite part was how excited she was when you arrived at the top. True joy is hard to not smile at when you see it. Good job sir.
Yes, like you said, in this particulart scenario (slow hairpins with a passenger) the boxer is better, but for me those are not the reasons why I love riding a bike :D In every other case I much prefer the XR to the GS, it's faster, more exciting and still super comfy, this is why I switched :)
Can you comment on the bike comfortwise? I've been considering to switch to S1000XR from my MT-09 because 3+ hour trips are obviously painful on a naked bike; I definitely want wind protection as well as a comfy seat & handlebar. Until watching this, it seemed to me that only S1000XR would match the "fun" factor of MT-09 but now I have second thoughts because my regular routes include a lot of twisties, if not as sharp as Stelvio. It would be great to hear the thoughts of an actual S1000XR owner before investing into my next bike!
@@subtlegroove9867 Check out the Tracer 900 or the new Tracer 9, it's literally the same style of bike as the XR, but with the MT-09 motor. As for BMWs, I would grab a R1250RS for tight twisties like this, same boxer twin as the GS, but a little smaller and much more pavement focused.
@@subtlegroove9867 I hear you, I come from a naked myself, an S1000 R. I needed more comfort so I had a Superduke GT, a GS, and now the new XR. The XR is the most comfortable after the GS, I can ride it all day long. I live in Italy so we have a lot of twisties, and the bike rides like a supernaked, light, stable and with tons of power and torque from 4000 revs up to 11000. It's so much fun. I personally never go under 4000 in the twisties, and bear in mind that Schaaf had a passenger too. So in the end, if you ride a lot with a passenger in really slow roads the GS (or the RS) is better, and in general the boxer engine is easier to use. But in any other case, the XR is better. This is my opinion of course.
Had a hard day ! But - thank you Schaaf , this video at the end of my day ........ just perfect ! This was my highlight today ! Thank you very much !!!!
I really like the BMW XR and I watched every review so far. After so many similar videos with basic specifications and poor opinions, HERE IT IS. Thank you Schaaf for your work, different from the others and so valuable for real life situations.
I’ve ridden several of the passes (Grossglockner, Furken, St Gothard, Oberalpen etc) but so far not the Stelvio on a GS with a mate chasing me on an XR. On the flat he caught me easily but on the climbs he had absolutely no chance. I now have a K1600GT Sport. I haven’t taken it to mainland Europe yet but I have ridden the Scottish Highlands several times. What a revelation! Steep climbs, hairpins, whatever, this bike will deal with all of it. No lack of low end grunt, agile in the hairpins and goes like a train on the flat. The only downside (until you get used to it) is the weight. I sometimes miss my GS, but not often. Loved the XR when I tried it but in a choice between chain or shaft I’ll choose shaft every time (insert innuendo of your choice here). Great vid, look forward to the next one.
I rode the same route in 2018 on a R1200RS (in the rain) and it was superb. The torque and grunt was exceptional. I also rode the S100XR on the same trip and was suitably impressed. It is a machine
Schaaf, wie immer SAUGUT! Vor allem hat mir dass mit den "Keyboard Warriors" gut gefallen ;-) Dein abschließendes Fazit bringt es bei aller Diskussionen einfach auf den Punkt!
Hello there, I own 1200 GSA and KTM 1290 SA, and I can confirm nothing beats GSA in Alps. This summer I was following locals on XR and Superdukes very easily. GSA is fantastic bike with awful gearbox but luckily it's torqui enought you don't have to shift it too often. :). Congratulations for one more great and honest review.
Schaaf, your video literally came to my rescue! I've been riding an MT-09 and seriously considering to switch to S1000XR because it seems to tick all boxes that I expect from my next bike; ergonomics (seating position, seat comfort & wind protection) to suit 3-4 hour mixed trips (highway and twisties) and enough low-down power to make me not regret selling a berserker like MT-09. Apparently S1000XR is more than I can expect in ergonomics dept. but I'll have to keep in mind that it may not be the beast that MT-09 is in tight twisties... Thank you very much for this very useful video!!
I went and test rode one of these, wanting somthing more for touring. Coming from an Mt10 to an Xr, the lack of torque was a big issue and a disappointment. Still an amazing machine don't get me wrong. Ended up with a 1250Gs, lots of low down power, good wind protection and surprisingly nimble for a 250kg bike!
Correct, it's able to get away if you can downshift fast enough, but for city use only, it's not much fun, better alternatives like small twins that respond immediately.
Don’t forget you’re at high altitude. I guess that’s the characteristic of the BMW super bike engine that was tuned for more mid range and top end power
I believe that since the xr has the same engine as the s1000rr, it also has the huge restrictions from the ecu that the s1krr comes with. Probably with a proper tune it will be much more powerful in the low gear-low rpm senarios
I wonder how well the new Multistrada V4 will do in this regard, I would expect a little bit of low end torque loss vs the 1260, but might not necessarily be that much.
Really enjoyed this video! The sounds the BMW make are quite intoxicating. You were blessed with very little traffic, unlike others in Stelvio videos I’ve seen. The one time I rode it (posted in another comment), we had a bit more traffic, but I just waited for the gaps and had a great ride... the others in my Edelweiss group just lined up behind the cars and followed them to the top. Not my idea of an epic ride. To my mind, the other side of the pass is the better road, but for a one-off, this side is certainly entertaining. And, as others have mentioned, the alternative to the XR is not the GS, but the 1290 GT. But I am a little biased. ;-) Also, having a “significant other” who is up for spirited riding is a blessing few riders share; I am also one of those fortunate people. Thanks again. Your video brightened my otherwise gloomy December day.
Agree all along. However coming from a Versys1000S, I have to admit that (perhaps) with the s1000XR there is a little less getting easy through the bends,. Having said that it gives a phenomenal amount of power you cannot get from many other bikes on the market
I have to agree. I was riding the Grimsel pass in Switzerland on an S1000R with my girlfriend on the back. There was times I could really feel the motor was struggling to pull the tightest uphill hairpins. I'm pretty sure a remap would solve the problem though. I've read the power nearly doubles at 50% throttle with a good remap.
A long first gear and dont forget the Powerdrop on altitude: My GS did wheelies on the first hairpins but on altitude i could "einschenken" and the frontwheel was nailed to ground :-)
Bin so hart am überlegen von der low rider s auf die s1000xr zu wechseln ........... deine videos machens einem nicht einfacher hahaha geiles video wie immer top gefahren und das mit sozius well done m8
TL;DR - 08:08 "The [S1000XR] is weak AF down in the low revs. Below 4000 RPM basically nothing happens. I actually don't mind an engine needing some revs in order to deliver. But the XR's case is an extreme one on a road like this." The bike's specifications are pretty telling as well. Just the bore and stroke give it away: 80mm bore by 49.7mm stroke. Any engine with a low stroke-to-bore ratio and dual overhead cams is almost certainly optimised for making most of its power at high speeds. For low-end torque it's best to have a stroke that is about equal to the bore or longer than the bore.
Glad you are back on track schaaf, and you are absolutely right about the low rev incopetence of the xr, another one is absolute lack of engeine braken , almost an oldscool 2-stroke. BUT, I think your duo didn't complain (being used to losing pegs) AND I notice you are prudent, I use (without pillion) 1st a lot, same road, uproad and surely down, and then it's a totaly different story :) but agree, it's still a high rev sports engine.
@@Schaaf My mistake, strange, on my 1st gen xr, I have to restrict it with back brake in 1st. Maybe it's the extra weight, or I'm slightly higher in rpm, but mostly on climbs like that I need to avoid unwanted wheelieing, (wich is why I don't use "pro" on roads like this) but you are absolutely right it is not comparable in easiness climbing hairpins compared to the good old z1000sx my girlfriend rides, she does the same at the same speed without bronco exits with ease in 2nd.
Would love to take my GS on this road as it would be perfect as you said!! So much mechanical grip with power exactly where you need it. Amazing views there!!!
Good to see someone reporting the same issue I had with an XR that I took on a test ride. You twist the throttle a little and basically nothing happens, then you have to keep twisting it for it to finally respond like you want it to. I thought maybe BMW programmed it this way since the bike was brand new. I guess it's always that way since Schaaf's bike is already broken in. It'll probably be ok once you get used to applying more throttle than you're used to. Pretty disappointing. I really want to buy one, but this issue may keep me from doing so. Who knows, if they come out with an all black model, maybe I'll give in and buy it! :)
The problem that is weak at low revs can be the exhaust system, the catalytic converter of modern bikes are keen to weaken the low revs, same as for the aprilia tuono, the earlier models where almost empty below 6k rpms
Great video. I agree with you , I have a 2020 XR and below 4000rpm the torque is not good , anything above 4000 rpm is brilliant.I think the XR can do with a shift cam engine. I still love the XR and every time I ride my XR I have a big smile.
On old 4-cylinder bikes, different exhaust choices severely affected where the peak power was. Either in the low, middle or high rev range, e.g. a 4-into-1 could rob mid-range power. As that BMW has all those electronics and sensors, I don't know what might be the cause of the problem there.
BUT!!! ALSO!!! if it would be becoming more and more of a problem, you could still change the chain sprockets (-1 in the front and +2 in the back(for example)), you would sacrifice some top speed, but you can gain a bit of low down grunt...
Love your videos, U can do most of the stelvio in first gear!! I love my xr, it is my first bike, learned to ride on it and did 27500 kms in my first year, all year round commute to Brussels. And because i am 1m90 and 115 kg, with gear, paniers, laptop,.. it is like i'm riding with a pillion. Has been the perfect bike for me
When going on some higher altitude passes, it would be helpful to know when the video was recorded to have some perspective on snow conditions and traffic. This ride was very nice in terms of traffic, very little. In August it is very busy. Do you remember when was it?
Warum nur haben sich die Motorradjournalisten bei der Vorstellung der neuen XR von BMW einlullen lassen? Mit der Shiftcam wäre das Teil das Maß aller Dinge., gerade am Stilfser Joch mit Sozia und Gepäck.
Aaaaand that's why the GS, tractoring up mountains, is the Alpenmaster. XD Now to the keyboard warrior part. Yes you can give it more power down low but you will lose top end, doing this. idk if BMW is willing to give up the sportiness of the XR. That said, the 900rs pulls like a v-twin and is fun as hell without top power. Imagine you drove up the same mountain without luggage and passenger at low temperatures during the rain ... suddenly the missing power is not that bad. Great vid as always. ;)
My father had one last year and I felt that it has quite a good amount of torque down low, maybe it is because you are at high altitude but for me the major downside it that this bike is heating A LOT like as soon as you slow down it hits 100°C but appart from that really great bike.
thanks 🙏 indeed the throttle response of some BMW, mainly straight 4,/6 are feels to the gas bowden would have made from rubber string. (I know these are ride by wire... ) It took me a half year to adapt but finally managed it somhow. Anyway I kept my KTM SDGT to compensating :)
The addition of a passenger is a great thing to see from a testing point of view. After watching, the following question came to mind: Does Dynamic ESA and DTC have a greater impact on power delivery than we first realized? In other words, what if the bike's ECU responded to the additional weight of a passenger by mitigating throttle response at low engine RPM? If so, I can see how high-altitude fuel/air mixture could exacerbate the issue as well. Perhaps it's a stupid question. Either way, I'm intrigued by your experience and interested in your thoughts.
I wouldn't know. But I do know that it's probably meant to be like that. To get through EURO 5. It would be very interesting indeed to learn what's possible with a bit of manipulation
I rode the previous model (with the dynamic pro mode) on Stelvio back in 2019. I rented it for a trip to Europe since it has the same engine as my 2018 S1000R and thought that it would be familiar but much more comfortable. And I was right on that aspect but felt similar. In order to work those tight turns, you need to rev it much higher than other Adv bikes. Plus the weight did not help. In the S1000R it works great, but for the XR, it needs more torque. If BMW refreshes it with the engine of the 2020 S1000RR, with the variable valve timing it might work better. And regarding the GS, I still prefer the Africa Twin. :) Cheers.
Its a wonderful bike even though it may lack a little low down punch but thats part of its character and you will then ride it accordingly,cheers.JHB-SA.
Great video. I have the same problem with the 2021 S1000XR. The engine sometimes stops when I leave on a slope. ( With passenger and luggage. ) We are no heavyweights, and with over 400.000Km. experience not inexperienced either. I can't even remember when I encountered this with my other motorcycles. I once rode an S1000RR - with passenger - and it had more bottom end torque than the S1000XR. Motorcycle is now always in dynamic pro mode, with as few restrictions as possible, but I only like it from 4000 rpm. It's a shame, because otherwise this is a good bike.
Nice video! What about decibels? The xr seems quieter and more melodic than gs, at least at middle-high rpm.. I had an acoustic nerve disease so i use plugs and like bikes with a smooth sound..
IIRC, the BMW I4 engine is a lot more oversquare than the Kawasaki one. While a different camschaft could probably squeeze more low end torque out of the S1kR engine, it still wouldn't be as much as the Kawasaki I4 offers - simply because the longer cylinders of the Kawa engine allow for more power per individual revolution. The BMW in turn has a much lower piston speed per revolution and therefore can rev way higher while still making power even when the Kawa engine hits a point of diminishing returns. That high rev limit is where the power sits though, as the BMW still makes mostly the same ( less than the Kawa) power per rev as it did down low - just a lot more of them per second. The alternative to going this high rev, naturally aspirated route is forced induction, which is what Kawa does with the H2. That comes with its own bag of issues though. IMO BMW isn't willing to build two I4s for motorcycles with a long and short stroke because of cost. Most people that were asking for an XR were people looking for a tourable RR anyway, everyone else goes to buy a GS. Which is sad, because they really should be buying the RT or RS, leaving the GS (and the direction it is going) for those that really want to travel through adverse conditions, but I can't fault anyone who looks at the RT and decides that they'd rather have something else with the same engine ( why is it so hideous?!). So we're left with: -a fat cow of an offroad bike with amenities most people that rode the originals haven't called for that does surprisingly well off road - for its size. Not with a bike that does suprisingly well off road - period. -a sportsbike masquerading as an adventure bike in the form of the XR while lacking (despite the obnoxiously long fork hinting that it SHOULD be able to) the parts to really go play in the dirt -the goldwing lookalike RT, that just looks like it wouldn't nearly be as fun ( and draws far less admiration) as a GS but does the road stuff better due to shorter suspension and would be a better fit for 90% of the GS riders with a few tweaks. -the RS - not sporty enough for sports riders, too sporty for the GS/RT crowd, perfect for those that read a spreadsheet and realize how amazing of a package it is if you never leave the pavement in earnest but without the wow factor to those looking for luxury or speed.
Godammit Schaaf, let there be summer without thinking of corona, quarantaine, travel restrictions and speed limits of course ^^. Awesome landscape, awsome clip. Thumbs up!
@@Schaaf ahh, I thought the shiftcam offered the reverse benefit, greater pull lower down while the nature of the inline 4 provides the top end? Thanks for the input, keep up the great work!
Thanks for your work👌🏼 I have a 1200gs but i find it to smooth, not enaf torque in low speed. Not enough aggressive engine. My ktm 790 adventure was better on this point. Do you think I'll be disappointed with the torque of the s1000xr? Because I would like to change my bike and I hesitate between a s1000xr and a ktm 1290 adventure, the s1000xr is more beautiful but I don't want to be disappointed with the 4 cylinder engine. Thanks
Apparently the 2020 is heavily restricted from new Euro 5 emission standards. I’m thinking this Brentune flash will take care of that. Supposedly it adds a substantial increase in horsepower / torque to second gear alone. Maybe they have to put intentional flat spots in certain gears / rev ranges to comply with regulations. We will see. Just got the flasher today need to install the software and send them my stock map. Very excited to what it feels like after. I’m willing to sacrifice some torque on this machine compared to my Ducati because everything else it dominates.
absolutely. The EURO restrictions are the reasons for its weird tune. And holy crap I'm sure this bike can be turned into a proper beast with a re-tune
@@Schaaf I just got done doing the Stage 1 and its a completely different bike. I've done a lot of reflashes in the past in this one is by far the best. Changes the whole characteristic of the motorcycle.
Don’t all XR’s 2020+ have dynamic pro? It does makes a difference with engine mode in most aggressive and engine braking max which helps braking going down the mountain. Enjoy this vid, been at the stelvio quite a lot, last year with my 2021 XR, the wife 2up and panniers. Also on The Gavia…what a machine…
Yes, but it’s standard on the sport package. Your bike was the ddc/ sport package i thought, hence the comment. Either way, if you get a change to use dynamic pro mode I would be curious about your verdict on that. Safe rides, keep the vids coming!
thats why i still have the gen 1 xr and dont trade it for gen 2. i test rode a xr gen 2 and got shocked,, didnt like it at all...Gen 1 has a lot more torque down there and A LOT more character as a bike! loving it...
Is it the engine or does the S 1000 R, for instance, perform any better (mapping)? I personally think this sort of power delivery is emotional as hell (like turbos in cars), but of course it's simply inferior to v twin rivals (or a GS) on these kind of roads.
Ich habe die XR und einen 1200 Boxer, vor der Kurve in den 1. schalten geht mit der XR gut, beim Boxer meine ich das Getriebe explodiert gleich. Schöne Aufnahmen und gut gefahren, danke fürs Vid!
I‘m about to get a new bike in spring, and the two bikes I‘m looking at right now are the S1000XR and the new Multi V4S. Would you mind giving your opinion on the two and the differences? Of course I‘ve watched nearly all V4S Videos on 1000ps, but I missed your opinion in the VS Vid of these two bikes ;)
actually it´s no surprise the R4 (origin is the one form S1000RR - made for race-tracks) needs revs - if you don´t like it yo u gotta ride a Boxer or V2......
I hope you can try soon the new Multistrada V4 in the same road (and post your video). I figure it could compete with the GS on those super-tight roads.
![BMW S 1000 XR sound - 2020 [RAW Onboard]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pTWpSlJaTLo/mqdefault.jpg)
![THOSE CRAZY ITALIANS! (Stelvio pass) [RAW Onboard]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2eDc5ZU8zRA/mqdefault.jpg)
Looks like your girlfriend solved the blurry speedo problem.
She must have psychic energy, fixing electronic interferences merely by being present 😉
ahahahaha what a comment :D
i realized two things watching the video...i want a BMW S 1000 XR and a girlfriend
Meeeee too. 🥲
Ha! Getting the bike is the easiest part of that!
I love this community ^^
what would your wife say ... to the XR?
I’d like a girl friend as well but the wife wouldn’t be very happy 😃
FIrst of all it's good to see, that you are riding more carefully with a passenger.
...
Tottally right
I have seen loads of vids of this road and it never fails to amaze me with the breathtaking scenery and hats off to the engineers. Great stuff cheers shaaf
thanks Phillip
I love your riding man, but my favourite part was how excited she was when you arrived at the top. True joy is hard to not smile at when you see it.
Good job sir.
Couldn't agree more :)
Yes, like you said, in this particulart scenario (slow hairpins with a passenger) the boxer is better, but for me those are not the reasons why I love riding a bike :D
In every other case I much prefer the XR to the GS, it's faster, more exciting and still super comfy, this is why I switched :)
Can you comment on the bike comfortwise? I've been considering to switch to S1000XR from my MT-09 because 3+ hour trips are obviously painful on a naked bike; I definitely want wind protection as well as a comfy seat & handlebar. Until watching this, it seemed to me that only S1000XR would match the "fun" factor of MT-09 but now I have second thoughts because my regular routes include a lot of twisties, if not as sharp as Stelvio. It would be great to hear the thoughts of an actual S1000XR owner before investing into my next bike!
@@subtlegroove9867 Check out the Tracer 900 or the new Tracer 9, it's literally the same style of bike as the XR, but with the MT-09 motor. As for BMWs, I would grab a R1250RS for tight twisties like this, same boxer twin as the GS, but a little smaller and much more pavement focused.
@@subtlegroove9867 I hear you, I come from a naked myself, an S1000 R. I needed more comfort so I had a Superduke GT, a GS, and now the new XR.
The XR is the most comfortable after the GS, I can ride it all day long. I live in Italy so we have a lot of twisties, and the bike rides like a supernaked, light, stable and with tons of power and torque from 4000 revs up to 11000.
It's so much fun.
I personally never go under 4000 in the twisties, and bear in mind that Schaaf had a passenger too.
So in the end, if you ride a lot with a passenger in really slow roads the GS (or the RS) is better, and in general the boxer engine is easier to use. But in any other case, the XR is better.
This is my opinion of course.
@@DGBomber Mate, thank you very much for your detailed comment! I really appreciate it!
@@subtlegroove9867 no problem I'm glad if I could help you :)
Had a hard day ! But - thank you Schaaf , this video at the end of my day ........ just perfect ! This was my highlight today ! Thank you very much !!!!
Glad I could help!
U r a proper rider... Quick enough and safe when passenger s on so u both enjoy it ! Nice ride!
Thanks man
I really like the BMW XR and I watched every review so far. After so many similar videos with basic specifications and poor opinions, HERE IT IS. Thank you Schaaf for your work, different from the others and so valuable for real life situations.
Glad you liked it!
8:16 Me: *cries with honda cbr 125 *
;)
I’ve ridden several of the passes (Grossglockner, Furken, St Gothard, Oberalpen etc) but so far not the Stelvio on a GS with a mate chasing me on an XR. On the flat he caught me easily but on the climbs he had absolutely no chance. I now have a K1600GT Sport. I haven’t taken it to mainland Europe yet but I have ridden the Scottish Highlands several times. What a revelation! Steep climbs, hairpins, whatever, this bike will deal with all of it. No lack of low end grunt, agile in the hairpins and goes like a train on the flat. The only downside (until you get used to it) is the weight. I sometimes miss my GS, but not often.
Loved the XR when I tried it but in a choice between chain or shaft I’ll choose shaft every time (insert innuendo of your choice here).
Great vid, look forward to the next one.
thanks a lot Tony!
I rode the same route in 2018 on a R1200RS (in the rain) and it was superb. The torque and grunt was exceptional. I also rode the S100XR on the same trip and was suitably impressed. It is a machine
sure is
Schaaf, wie immer SAUGUT! Vor allem hat mir dass mit den "Keyboard Warriors" gut gefallen ;-) Dein abschließendes Fazit bringt es bei aller Diskussionen einfach auf den Punkt!
Dank dir, Heiko!
Quick and smooth... amazing video as usual! That engine sound intermitently reflecting in the stone guarrails brought me there again :)
Thank you very much! :)
At 7 minutes when you start to reach the tree line I can almost feel my legs getting colder like when really driving there up.
Nice ;)
I'd pay for a ride with Schaaf. But it would have to be one of those that the speed thing gets blurred.
My girl likes those the most as well ;)
The smoothness of the video is very satisfying, nearly as much as riding IRL lol
You should try french alps one day!
I would love to and definitely will
Hello there, I own 1200 GSA and KTM 1290 SA, and I can confirm nothing beats GSA in Alps. This summer I was following locals on XR and Superdukes very easily. GSA is fantastic bike with awful gearbox but luckily it's torqui enought you don't have to shift it too often. :). Congratulations for one more great and honest review.
Thanks for sharing
Schaaf, your video literally came to my rescue! I've been riding an MT-09 and seriously considering to switch to S1000XR because it seems to tick all boxes that I expect from my next bike; ergonomics (seating position, seat comfort & wind protection) to suit 3-4 hour mixed trips (highway and twisties) and enough low-down power to make me not regret selling a berserker like MT-09. Apparently S1000XR is more than I can expect in ergonomics dept. but I'll have to keep in mind that it may not be the beast that MT-09 is in tight twisties... Thank you very much for this very useful video!!
Welcome! I'm glad I could help!
Wow, went from sunny/green to a cool town amidst the snow in 20 mins. Awesome!
Yeaa
I went and test rode one of these, wanting somthing more for touring. Coming from an Mt10 to an Xr, the lack of torque was a big issue and a disappointment. Still an amazing machine don't get me wrong. Ended up with a 1250Gs, lots of low down power, good wind protection and surprisingly nimble for a 250kg bike!
i guess nothing happens under 4k is good for smooth filtering in city traffic ?
Not at all. I'd rather be able to have an INSTANT getaway in the city. If you need an engine like that for smooth filtering your wrist is the problem.
Small bike with a punchy twin is the best for city riding.
Correct, it's able to get away if you can downshift fast enough, but for city use only, it's not much fun, better alternatives like small twins that respond immediately.
Great video! The sound of that engine is amazing, especaily in high reffs!!!
It just sounds so brutal.
Love it!
It really is!
Yes, a lot of work for the right hand but you ride and negotiate the switch backs really well. Thank you for another excellent video.
Many thanks!
Got the XR now I just need beautiful roads and someone to share them with. Thanks Schaaf!
Welcome! Enjoy the ride!
This is The vídeo i was waiting for jajaja, this actually answers a lot of what i asked you on instagram ! Thanks a lot man :)
Happy to help!
Don’t forget you’re at high altitude. I guess that’s the characteristic of the BMW super bike engine that was tuned for more mid range and top end power
Doesn't the bike adjust for the fuel air ratio automatically? Not completely sure about that though...
@@SH-rp1ft yeah it does, but if you have less oxygen available per volume of stroke...
it is a characteristic which doesn't make much sense on a touring bike ;)
I believe that since the xr has the same engine as the s1000rr, it also has the huge restrictions from the ecu that the s1krr comes with. Probably with a proper tune it will be much more powerful in the low gear-low rpm senarios
absolutely
@@Schaaf ❤️
My wife was watching it by my side and got a little dizzy. lol
Hahahaha
I found the same riding my XR in the mountains with big twins. I’ve now got a Multistrada
Yeaaaa
I wonder how well the new Multistrada V4 will do in this regard, I would expect a little bit of low end torque loss vs the 1260, but might not necessarily be that much.
Really enjoyed this video! The sounds the BMW make are quite intoxicating. You were blessed with very little traffic, unlike others in Stelvio videos I’ve seen. The one time I rode it (posted in another comment), we had a bit more traffic, but I just waited for the gaps and had a great ride... the others in my Edelweiss group just lined up behind the cars and followed them to the top. Not my idea of an epic ride. To my mind, the other side of the pass is the better road, but for a one-off, this side is certainly entertaining.
And, as others have mentioned, the alternative to the XR is not the GS, but the 1290 GT. But I am a little biased. ;-)
Also, having a “significant other” who is up for spirited riding is a blessing few riders share; I am also one of those fortunate people.
Thanks again. Your video brightened my otherwise gloomy December day.
thanks a lot Dan! Riding wise the other side definitely is more enjoyable. But I just had to show my better half the "iconic" side ;)
is it only me or we hear the signal from a phone receiving notification ? it came from the left, good exemple at 8:06
Yup you heard that right
@@Schaaf hey don't respond to me rn ;)
take some times off on your sail in croatia ;)
you decerved it ;)
Agree all along. However coming from a Versys1000S, I have to admit that (perhaps) with the s1000XR there is a little less getting easy through the bends,. Having said that it gives a phenomenal amount of power you cannot get from many other bikes on the market
Well, the Versys for sure has more grunt down low. I'd take the Versys over the XR actually
I have to agree. I was riding the Grimsel pass in Switzerland on an S1000R with my girlfriend on the back. There was times I could really feel the motor was struggling to pull the tightest uphill hairpins. I'm pretty sure a remap would solve the problem though. I've read the power nearly doubles at 50% throttle with a good remap.
Right on!
A long first gear and dont forget the Powerdrop on altitude:
My GS did wheelies on the first hairpins but on altitude i could "einschenken" and the frontwheel was nailed to ground :-)
:)
Ooooeeehh Schaaf in love? You deserve it. You passenger seems to be blocking your audio equipment a bit though haha
Hahaha she does but I guess that's quite a decent price to pay ;)
Bin so hart am überlegen von der low rider s auf die s1000xr zu wechseln ........... deine videos machens einem nicht einfacher hahaha geiles video wie immer top gefahren und das mit sozius well done m8
TL;DR - 08:08 "The [S1000XR] is weak AF down in the low revs. Below 4000 RPM basically nothing happens. I actually don't mind an engine needing some revs in order to deliver. But the XR's case is an extreme one on a road like this."
The bike's specifications are pretty telling as well. Just the bore and stroke give it away: 80mm bore by 49.7mm stroke. Any engine with a low stroke-to-bore ratio and dual overhead cams is almost certainly optimised for making most of its power at high speeds. For low-end torque it's best to have a stroke that is about equal to the bore or longer than the bore.
cool story bro
Glad you are back on track schaaf, and you are absolutely right about the low rev incopetence of the xr, another one is absolute lack of engeine braken , almost an oldscool 2-stroke. BUT, I think your duo didn't complain (being used to losing pegs) AND I notice you are prudent, I use (without pillion) 1st a lot, same road, uproad and surely down, and then it's a totaly different story :) but agree, it's still a high rev sports engine.
as you could see I was constantly using first
@@Schaaf My mistake, strange, on my 1st gen xr, I have to restrict it with back brake in 1st. Maybe it's the extra weight, or I'm slightly higher in rpm, but mostly on climbs like that I need to avoid unwanted wheelieing, (wich is why I don't use "pro" on roads like this) but you are absolutely right it is not comparable in easiness climbing hairpins compared to the good old z1000sx my girlfriend rides, she does the same at the same speed without bronco exits with ease in 2nd.
Would love to take my GS on this road as it would be perfect as you said!! So much mechanical grip with power exactly where you need it. Amazing views there!!!
Yes indeed!!
Good to see someone reporting the same issue I had with an XR that I took on a test ride. You twist the throttle a little and basically nothing happens, then you have to keep twisting it for it to finally respond like you want it to. I thought maybe BMW programmed it this way since the bike was brand new. I guess it's always that way since Schaaf's bike is already broken in. It'll probably be ok once you get used to applying more throttle than you're used to. Pretty disappointing. I really want to buy one, but this issue may keep me from doing so. Who knows, if they come out with an all black model, maybe I'll give in and buy it! :)
Below 4K rpm you can apply 100 percent throttle and nothing will change ;)
The problem that is weak at low revs can be the exhaust system, the catalytic converter of modern bikes are keen to weaken the low revs, same as for the aprilia tuono, the earlier models where almost empty below 6k rpms
the actual problems are EURO-5 emission laws
Great video. I agree with you , I have a 2020 XR and below 4000rpm the torque is not good , anything above 4000 rpm is brilliant.I think the XR can do with a shift cam engine. I still love the XR and every time I ride my XR I have a big smile.
Right on
Is the older generation XR as bad in this situation..?
On old 4-cylinder bikes, different exhaust choices severely affected where the peak power was. Either in the low, middle or high rev range, e.g. a 4-into-1 could rob mid-range power. As that BMW has all those electronics and sensors, I don't know what might be the cause of the problem there.
Strict EURO emission laws probably ;)
gearing change perhaps might help? not like gearing it down would hurt the top end all that much bc no one uses the full power on these anyway…
true
Does it feel worse than the suzuki GT in those low rpms? I am interested in the GX that has the same engine as the GT.
I can't say without a direct comparison. But it wouldn't surprise me if the Suzuki was doing a bit better down low
would you rather have used the Multi for this one?
absolutely
Agree. (being XR owner)
It looked like you had one very happy passenger at the end there! 😁
Well spotted! Getting to share this experience like that makes it 5 times more enjoyable :)
@@Schaaf i agree. I'm looking forward to a Euro trip with my g/f next summer!
BUT!!! ALSO!!! if it would be becoming more and more of a problem, you could still change the chain sprockets (-1 in the front and +2 in the back(for example)), you would sacrifice some top speed, but you can gain a bit of low down grunt...
Love your videos,
U can do most of the stelvio in first gear!!
I love my xr, it is my first bike, learned to ride on it and did 27500 kms in my first year, all year round commute to Brussels.
And because i am 1m90 and 115 kg, with gear, paniers, laptop,.. it is like i'm riding with a pillion.
Has been the perfect bike for me
Awesome!
a geat video as always, keep it up man.
thanks Patryk!
Dont you think a full sport exhaust and a ecu tune will give this bike more (enough) torque in the lower rpms?
When going on some higher altitude passes, it would be helpful to know when the video was recorded to have some perspective on snow conditions and traffic. This ride was very nice in terms of traffic, very little. In August it is very busy. Do you remember when was it?
Warum nur haben sich die Motorradjournalisten bei der Vorstellung der neuen XR von BMW einlullen lassen? Mit der Shiftcam wäre das Teil das Maß aller Dinge., gerade am Stilfser Joch mit Sozia und Gepäck.
Shiftcam in der RR ist in hohen Drehzahlen wirksam. Laut BMW
@@Schaaf eben; laut BMW. Denn nach der Logik bräuchte die GS die Technik auch nicht.
Nothing beats a boxer torque on tight roads? Try a Yamaha MT-10 - pulls from tickover to the redline.
Try a new Super Duke....
@@Schaaf hey Schaaf, im just curious to know, which bike do you like more....the Mt10 or the Speed Triple RS
Yep. Noticed it a lot when I hoped off my 17 XR to test ride the new one. Wooly AF way down in the revs.
Thanks for the confirmation
Aaaaand that's why the GS, tractoring up mountains, is the Alpenmaster. XD
Now to the keyboard warrior part. Yes you can give it more power down low but you will lose top end, doing this. idk if BMW is willing to give up the sportiness of the XR. That said, the 900rs pulls like a v-twin and is fun as hell without top power. Imagine you drove up the same mountain without luggage and passenger at low temperatures during the rain ... suddenly the missing power is not that bad.
Great vid as always. ;)
YES
Get a KTM 1290 Super Adventure and you have both worlds! ;-)
I agree. Need the shiftcam engine in the XR and R. I prefer the previous generation XR.
Shiftcam on the RR actually is active in the high rpm ranges :D
My father had one last year and I felt that it has quite a good amount of torque down low, maybe it is because you are at high altitude but for me the major downside it that this bike is heating A LOT like as soon as you slow down it hits 100°C but appart from that really great bike.
the old one has a lot more torque
I wonder if the low down tourqe issue is down to the active exhaust choking it at low revs. 🤔
maybe
thanks 🙏 indeed the throttle response of some BMW, mainly straight 4,/6 are feels to the gas bowden would have made from rubber string. (I know these are ride by wire... ) It took me a half year to adapt but finally managed it somhow. Anyway I kept my KTM SDGT to compensating :)
Haha well done ;)
Needs a bit of a stage 1 tune get that torque up oh and the flat spot
Indeed
wow, pretty place, how you feel the s1000xr to travel with passanger?, i think to buy one
perfect
The addition of a passenger is a great thing to see from a testing point of view. After watching, the following question came to mind:
Does Dynamic ESA and DTC have a greater impact on power delivery than we first realized? In other words, what if the bike's ECU responded to the additional weight of a passenger by mitigating throttle response at low engine RPM? If so, I can see how high-altitude fuel/air mixture could exacerbate the issue as well.
Perhaps it's a stupid question. Either way, I'm intrigued by your experience and interested in your thoughts.
I wouldn't know. But I do know that it's probably meant to be like that. To get through EURO 5. It would be very interesting indeed to learn what's possible with a bit of manipulation
@@Schaaf I heartily agree. Besides the question, another well done wideo. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
Even on straight acceleration it is clear that it lacks torque on low rpm. Driving mode maybe?
Read my inserts
I rode the previous model (with the dynamic pro mode) on Stelvio back in 2019. I rented it for a trip to Europe since it has the same engine as my 2018 S1000R and thought that it would be familiar but much more comfortable. And I was right on that aspect but felt similar. In order to work those tight turns, you need to rev it much higher than other Adv bikes. Plus the weight did not help. In the S1000R it works great, but for the XR, it needs more torque. If BMW refreshes it with the engine of the 2020 S1000RR, with the variable valve timing it might work better. And regarding the GS, I still prefer the Africa Twin. :) Cheers.
I've been told that those variable valves in the RR actually provide more power in the high revs. They don't do anything down low.
@@Schaaf I think you are right.
Its a wonderful bike even though it may lack a little low down punch but thats part of its character and you will then ride it accordingly,cheers.JHB-SA.
Exactly. I absolutely love the XR
Great video.
I have the same problem with the 2021 S1000XR.
The engine sometimes stops when I leave on a slope. ( With passenger and luggage. )
We are no heavyweights, and with over 400.000Km. experience not inexperienced either. I can't even remember when I encountered this with my other motorcycles. I once rode an S1000RR - with passenger - and it had more bottom end torque than the S1000XR.
Motorcycle is now always in dynamic pro mode, with as few restrictions as possible, but I only like it from 4000 rpm.
It's a shame, because otherwise this is a good bike.
try reading into the comments. Some people offered solutions with installing different mappings. I'm quite sure that would improve it a lot
im confident this issue can be somewhat resolved with an ecu flash
probably
Nice video! What about decibels? The xr seems quieter and more melodic than gs, at least at middle-high rpm.. I had an acoustic nerve disease so i use plugs and like bikes with a smooth sound..
I'd say it indeed is quieter in the low to mid revs
Great video! Does anyone know if this low down torque issue got better with the 21 / 22 version ?
I doubt it but it can be fix with new mappings
IIRC, the BMW I4 engine is a lot more oversquare than the Kawasaki one. While a different camschaft could probably squeeze more low end torque out of the S1kR engine, it still wouldn't be as much as the Kawasaki I4 offers - simply because the longer cylinders of the Kawa engine allow for more power per individual revolution. The BMW in turn has a much lower piston speed per revolution and therefore can rev way higher while still making power even when the Kawa engine hits a point of diminishing returns.
That high rev limit is where the power sits though, as the BMW still makes mostly the same ( less than the Kawa) power per rev as it did down low - just a lot more of them per second.
The alternative to going this high rev, naturally aspirated route is forced induction, which is what Kawa does with the H2. That comes with its own bag of issues though.
IMO BMW isn't willing to build two I4s for motorcycles with a long and short stroke because of cost. Most people that were asking for an XR were people looking for a tourable RR anyway, everyone else goes to buy a GS.
Which is sad, because they really should be buying the RT or RS, leaving the GS (and the direction it is going) for those that really want to travel through adverse conditions, but I can't fault anyone who looks at the RT and decides that they'd rather have something else with the same engine ( why is it so hideous?!). So we're left with:
-a fat cow of an offroad bike with amenities most people that rode the originals haven't called for that does surprisingly well off road - for its size. Not with a bike that does suprisingly well off road - period.
-a sportsbike masquerading as an adventure bike in the form of the XR while lacking (despite the obnoxiously long fork hinting that it SHOULD be able to) the parts to really go play in the dirt
-the goldwing lookalike RT, that just looks like it wouldn't nearly be as fun ( and draws far less admiration) as a GS but does the road stuff better due to shorter suspension and would be a better fit for 90% of the GS riders with a few tweaks.
-the RS - not sporty enough for sports riders, too sporty for the GS/RT crowd, perfect for those that read a spreadsheet and realize how amazing of a package it is if you never leave the pavement in earnest but without the wow factor to those looking for luxury or speed.
thanks for the comment
That is why i would like to see an XR version of the boxer. Upright position, 17in front wheel with a bit of a longer front suspension travel.
YES
I bet the next iteration of the XR will feature the shift cam engine to give decent power below 4K rpm.
shift cam in the 4 cylinder engine works in the higher rpms actually
Godammit Schaaf, let there be summer without thinking of corona, quarantaine, travel restrictions and speed limits of course ^^. Awesome landscape, awsome clip. Thumbs up!
So true! Thanks
@schaaf - Curious if you think the new Ninja you rode recently or this is better (for on sealed road sport touring)?
The Ninja is better but I'd choose the XR.
@@Schaaf lol. Thanks.
And they say this bike doesn’t need shiftcam...how does the R1250RS compare to this bike as sport touring machines?
it is quite a lot less agile but obviously much more torquey. Shift cam on the inline 4 works in the higher revs, not the lower ones
@@Schaaf ahh, I thought the shiftcam offered the reverse benefit, greater pull lower down while the nature of the inline 4 provides the top end? Thanks for the input, keep up the great work!
Beeindruckend wie weich die runter in den ersten Gang flutscht. Oder wirkt das nur im Video so?
ist tatsächlich so
Thanks for your work👌🏼
I have a 1200gs but i find it to smooth, not enaf torque in low speed. Not enough aggressive engine.
My ktm 790 adventure was better on this point.
Do you think I'll be disappointed with the torque of the s1000xr?
Because I would like to change my bike and I hesitate between a s1000xr and a ktm 1290 adventure, the s1000xr is more beautiful but I don't want to be disappointed with the 4 cylinder engine.
Thanks
Just get the 1290 then :)
@@Schaaf thanks
@@wildertag No replacement for displacement. You can't go wrong with that 1290 engine.
Apparently the 2020 is heavily restricted from new Euro 5 emission standards. I’m thinking this Brentune flash will take care of that. Supposedly it adds a substantial increase in horsepower / torque to second gear alone. Maybe they have to put intentional flat spots in certain gears / rev ranges to comply with regulations. We will see. Just got the flasher today need to install the software and send them my stock map. Very excited to what it feels like after. I’m willing to sacrifice some torque on this machine compared to my Ducati because everything else it dominates.
absolutely. The EURO restrictions are the reasons for its weird tune. And holy crap I'm sure this bike can be turned into a proper beast with a re-tune
@@Schaaf I just got done doing the Stage 1 and its a completely different bike. I've done a lot of reflashes in the past in this one is by far the best. Changes the whole characteristic of the motorcycle.
Don’t all XR’s 2020+ have dynamic pro? It does makes a difference with engine mode in most aggressive and engine braking max which helps braking going down the mountain. Enjoy this vid, been at the stelvio quite a lot, last year with my 2021 XR, the wife 2up and panniers. Also on The Gavia…what a machine…
no you have to pay extra for it
Yes, but it’s standard on the sport package. Your bike was the ddc/ sport package i thought, hence the comment. Either way, if you get a change to use dynamic pro mode I would be curious about your verdict on that. Safe rides, keep the vids coming!
thats why i still have the gen 1 xr and dont trade it for gen 2. i test rode a xr gen 2 and got shocked,, didnt like it at all...Gen 1 has a lot more torque down there and A LOT more character as a bike! loving it...
That's true. But the suspension on Gen2 is quite a lot better. Much more stability when going fast
How about a H2 SX in comparison? More suitable for roads like this?
Power wise, yes, handling wise, no
Hi Schaaf,
great video again, as usual. To get your honest opinion, would you rather go with the R1250RS or the S1000XR? Thanks!
excellent question and hard to choose. I'd take the XR though because apart from the non existent torque it does everything else perfectly
Amazing scenery, fantastic riding!
Thanks a lot Pete
Is it the engine or does the S 1000 R, for instance, perform any better (mapping)? I personally think this sort of power delivery is emotional as hell (like turbos in cars), but of course it's simply inferior to v twin rivals (or a GS) on these kind of roads.
The old R performs way better. Which is obvious. Its engine doesn't need to comply with EURO 5 laws.
maybe a chainring with 2 more teeth or a pinion with one less tooth could improve the response at low revs
a little bit but not significantly. A reflash is more efficient
Ich habe die XR und einen 1200 Boxer, vor der Kurve in den 1. schalten geht mit der XR gut, beim Boxer meine ich das Getriebe explodiert gleich. Schöne Aufnahmen und gut gefahren, danke fürs Vid!
Danke
I‘m about to get a new bike in spring, and the two bikes I‘m looking at right now are the S1000XR and the new Multi V4S. Would you mind giving your opinion on the two and the differences? Of course I‘ve watched nearly all V4S Videos on 1000ps, but I missed your opinion in the VS Vid of these two bikes ;)
that's a bit too much for a TH-cam comment. But let's make it short: the V4S is better in every aspect besides consumption and wind protection.
You don't have to close gas when you gear up? Very nice quickshifter
That is correct
actually it´s no surprise the R4 (origin is the one form S1000RR - made for race-tracks) needs revs - if you don´t like it yo u gotta ride a Boxer or V2......
I like it a lot but how is is possible then that other inline 4 engines produce a lot more torque down low?
Will a race tune fix this? I was under the impression that the Euro 5s has a bigger penalty for inline 4s.
I wouldn't know
I hope you can try soon the new Multistrada V4 in the same road (and post your video). I figure it could compete with the GS on those super-tight roads.
Unfortunately it won't. The testers already said it doesn't pull hard below 6K
It's only the Stelvio the XR doesn't perform as a twin all other roads it shines, and I ride a GS and rode Stelvio X 2
yup
Is the bike just that soft in the bottom end torque? ... or is there a little throttle delay partially to blame in the lacking bottom end?
It is that weak
Would you prefer a 900XR for the same ride with girlfriend and hairpins? I mean torque wise, and if we exclude the GS
I never tried the XR with the GF. But I might would indeed prefer it on this road. But only on this road ;)
@@Schaaf Thank you for the answer mate!
Fair play , you can ride a bike !! But which is better the XR or the GS ....
th-cam.com/video/UooObHe8ieY/w-d-xo.html
As always, great video Schaaf! Glad you could enjoy the Stelvio with your girlfriend!
Thanks! 👍