14 minutes of installation and the last minute of the guy just cruising around...saying it feels like over 300 horses....like come on, show us some acceleration videos or something.
I honestly have to say I love this video and you did a pretty good job at explaining everything, I’m freshly getting into cars and I’m pretty sure this is going to be my first car
I’m letting you know 100% you won’t be disappointed. The Elantra n convinced me to sell my gencoupe and I got a veloster N. I can’t wait for you to get yours 🙏🏽
Damn guys, friggin awesome! I’ll admit the tuning of cars is something I’ve never dipped into, so, as ez as u guys make this seem, I’m super unsure of myself tackling this mod but am very impressed and interested down the line. Some exterior stuff first and CC once SXTH gets em back in stock, some CF and then we’ll see how brave I am with this tune. I wanted to get this car to around 300whp but wasn’t sure what it would take back when it first announced. This looks and def sounds legit af. Thnx for the upload guys n get us a follow up vid after a week or so!🤘🏽
So Sxth provided a Spared ECU to swap out the stock one. But on there website I only see Veloster Mods. DO most veloster mods just work with the EN as well? Super new to Modding cars and im trynna be careful on what to get
Are you running oem plugs? Is there a way to get rid of the cel? That would annoy me lol.. Also you should consider wearing a mic.. Can't hear you sometimes in the videos.
Yeah the CEL is gone. I’m Not sure if the ek1 pro deleted it when I attempted to through the system cause it was still on the dashboard. But within a few minutes it disappeared so idk if the ecu learned the vin or what.
We have the stock plugs in right now but have the ngk heat range 9’s coming in. And I will look into the mic as well thank you for the recommendation 🙏🏽
could you describe what you selected when buying the spare ecu? im assuming the exhaust crackle is agressive, but what was the stage you chose and what max rpm (i assume 7200). also does the exhaust always crackle or is it like stock where only in n mode?
This is conservative Crackles not the aggressive option. Stage 1 and correct max is at 7000k now I believe. And the exhaust will only crackle in n mode no eco or normal.
Yes numbers please, and what are the differences based on this canned tune. Sorry but it is a canned tune unless you personally have it dynoed and tuned.
Thankfully with the ek1 you can get tunes emailed and uploaded that way. Stage 1 is for stock with no mods. Once we get intake and fmic and downpipe it will go to stage 2
Great vid, lots of info, thanks ! Wondering what the benefit is to completely switching out the stock ecu for the SXTH ecu. Can someone just keep the stock ecu and tune it, and maybe it won't throw a check engine light?
Benefits of having a spare ecu is you can swap the stock ecu back in if your worried about the dealer checking for a tune. A majority of the time they don’t even scan the ecu to check. But the only reason we have a cel is because we have the ek1. The cel is no longer there as it was a software cel code for vin not matching. Nothing engine related. Nathan from sxth emailed us another email file with the correct info to fix the issue.
@@KDMStation thanks for that tip ! I've been binge watching and liking some of your other vids now and very appreciative. So is the light gone permanently now ? You just erased it and good to go ? Or does the light come back over time and you just live with it ? ... Which I've done many times in other vehicles, like when i put coilovers in my civic type r and lived with the light haha
@@UhhWhereAmI we appreciate the love, thank you for that. And yeah the light is permanently gone now. It was a small kink that our spare ecu wasn’t relaying the vin to the ek1 unit but now everything is golden.
Thank you! We actually didn’t use the blue wire tap because we don’t have the ek1 on all the time for gauges sometimes we keep it in the glovebox. But if you did want to use the ignition wire I would tap into an accessory fuse so it only turns on when the car is on. Media some labeled where it’s only on when the car is on.
@@KDMStationbro donde puedo poner el cable azul en el elantra n es que se queda prendio lo puse en modulo 5 y no se apaga al menos que tenga la opcion de auto apagado en on
Do i need to do a stage 1 tune before getting a stage 2? Just got my 23 elantra n and i know nothing about this but i definitely want even more powerrr😂
Not at all! The only thing you would need for stage 2 is the supporting mods. Which are step colder plugs, downpipe, and hpfp. The rest are just supporting mods that you can add later. And congrats on your new N!
You should get familiar with the magnuson v. moss act to know how warranty works. They can deny a claim but not void a warranty. And they also have the prove said part caused the defect. But that’s not anything we are worried about 😊
Great video! You broke it down, and I feel confident that I could make this upgrade myself. Quick question, if you swap the ECU back to stock, does the check engine light flip back off? Like for instance if I would want to take mine back to the dealership for any reason.
Thank you 🙏🏽 so for the cel you won’t have that issue like we had. We had the cel due to the vin not matching but this was when the ek1 just came out and sxth was working on the little issues. Now everything is good to go with no issues. You’ll be able to have your stock tune on the device and you won’t need to put in a spare ecu. The device can load the stock tune back onto the ecu.
So I'm assuming since you have to buy the unlocked ecu, You can just swap the stock ecu back in when getting service done at the dealership to avoid voiding your warranty?
@@KDMStation Well I know for a fact the dealership will have the ability to know if you've flashed the ECU. So maybe it'll be a better idea to reinstall the original ECU if you have to bring the car in for a major repair..
ill definitely be waiting out my warranty with the N but im glad to see somebody testing it and looking forward to how it keeps up in the coming months, know excatly how much extra pound's of boost its tuned too??
I actually didn’t even really bother looking at the gauge while we were driving cause of how much fun it was but lol. But if I remember correctly I think my eye saw 21-23
First off🥇, Emily congrats on the beautiful machine that you are building! Second 🥈 , I noticed the VN in the back my mans , now that one is yours Henry? What's the dif between this, jb4 or or Afe?
Thank you Jason! I traded in the genesis due to my engine builders neglect. It was a sad decision but overall I’m happy with what I chose 😬 biggest difference is this is an actual tune rather than the jb4 or afe tapping into sensors and tricking the ecu into thinking it’s seeing stock boost when it isn’t and same thing with all the other variables it tricks the ecu. The ecu tune for us was the best route
SXTH already dynoed the EN at 280 WHP stock no? So i sure hope with a tune it can make 300 WHP. Heck, a downpipe and air intake should get it close if the stock 280 whp was true. basic bolt ons and a proper tune , this should be making 325 whp +
Yeah sxth already has a dyno showing what numbers it made with just the tune and than their intake. We didn’t make the video to brag about numbers just posted it so people have a basic understanding where this should put them..
Obviously this is better than jB4 or lap3 tune but could you possibly explain the benefits/difference to a noob to tuning it would be appreciated. Thank u.
@@KDMStation well it looks like the gain is 9-13 hp since you have the tune. I like that SXTH is honest about a zero gain on a stock car. I had the CPLT intake on my 2018 Elantra Sport and because of its stock intake not being efficient it did make a gain on a stock tune. I hope you show the CEL going away after putting in the VIN# because it puts the element of fear/doubt in this product. I would only use that screen only if I needed to do something, other than it's just another screen on the dash that doesn't flow with the stock look, plus it's a distraction...IMHO.
@@klasseact6663 I deleted the code and it hasn’t came back on. I’ll put on at least 100 miles to verify and if it doesn’t come back then it’s nothing To worry about.
@@klasseact6663 I erased it. the ek1 pro shows it has the correct vin to the car so we know it’s linked. When I erased it off the ek1 pro it didn’t go away right away though. So there could be a chance the ecu caught the vin and it went away lol.
@@CallOfBooty13 cel was causing by the vin numbers not matching up. We were the first Elantra N running the ek1 pro so we had some small kinks to fix out when we made this video. Now sxth has everything straightened away. You don’t even need to buy a spare ecu anymore like we did. You can flash directly to your oem ecu and keep your stock ecu tune on the ek1 device to flash back whenever you’d like. The cel we have now is from the downpipe. We aren’t running a 2nd o2 sensor due to the oem one binding onto the oem pipe. It’s only there to read that the cat is in place which is now a high flo cat so it threw a cel. It will be fixed once we get a replacement o2 sensor.
@@boostlife6370 we did get a check engine light after installing the ecu due to incorrect vin not matching ecu. I’ve deleted the code and it’s no longer popping up. But when you get a cel I’m not sure if it send anything via blue link. If it were too I would just say I was having issues with the battery and play stupid.
@@KDMStation haha I got you. What if you just install the old ecu. I was kind of worried that blue link would monitor those types of things because there gonna loose so much money with warranty claims of tuned cars.
@@boostlife6370 yeah they’ve been doing this with blue link for awhile though since I want to say 13-14 gencoupe did had blue link. We just didn’t have the fancy screen to tell us what’s going on lol. But I’m sure if we put the stock ecu it would be perfect I’m just not sure how long the info is stored in the system. But warranty is always dependent on dealer. If you have a good relationship with them sometimes they are willing to work on claims
@@mharro88 from my previous experience with dealing with the little bit of warranty work we have had to. They never questioned our ecu when we swapped it back in.
There is nobody else to crack into these ecus except sxth, n75, lap3 and alphaspeed. And at the end of the day dyno numbers mean nothing. It’s a great baseline but powerband is where it’s at.
@@KDMStation my tune has been tweaked a few times so its not just all dyno numbers. If you know n75 you'll know his tunes are what everyone goes after. People buy the ek1 just to run a n75 tune. I had 300whp on a jb4 tune on the same dyno. I wont argue with ya. Just try a proper tune thats all
you guys are the first one in doing this .. over all the elantra N in all the US . Congratz!!!!!
14 minutes of installation and the last minute of the guy just cruising around...saying it feels like over 300 horses....like come on, show us some acceleration videos or something.
Lol if I was to give a straight review off of one drive it would be pointless to me. We will drive for a week and update with videos.
Straight up
@@KDMStation any updates?
Yes we have a video coming soon!
Update ?
I honestly have to say I love this video and you did a pretty good job at explaining everything, I’m freshly getting into cars and I’m pretty sure this is going to be my first car
Did you get one?
Same, it’s gonna be my first car as well.
You guys have single handedly convinced to get an N. I'm staying tuned...
I’m letting you know 100% you won’t be disappointed. The Elantra n convinced me to sell my gencoupe and I got a veloster N. I can’t wait for you to get yours 🙏🏽
You guys are great I love your vibes.
And the vids are fantastic keep it up!
Thank you for that! We appreciate the support and kind words 🙏🏽
that sounds absolutely wild in N mode, damn
Amazing! Love the vids, can't wait to see some VN content too :D Keep it up!
Damn guys, friggin awesome! I’ll admit the tuning of cars is something I’ve never dipped into, so, as ez as u guys make this seem, I’m super unsure of myself tackling this mod but am very impressed and interested down the line. Some exterior stuff first and CC once SXTH gets em back in stock, some CF and then we’ll see how brave I am with this tune. I wanted to get this car to around 300whp but wasn’t sure what it would take back when it first announced. This looks and def sounds legit af. Thnx for the upload guys n get us a follow up vid after a week or so!🤘🏽
Thank you Jasen!
@@KDMStation On the Vin screen you got do you type in the vin of the new ECU and will that code go away?
@@cindysue5474 the ek1 pro already shows the vin registered to the ecu with our correct vin number.
Welcome jasen to the N family here in California
You have a link to the dashboard mount?
Is that spare ecu with the aggressive crackle, conservative crackle, or none?
This is with conservative.
Did you choose the enhanced crackle and pop option? If you did which one did you pick conservative or aggressive?
Yeah Emily got the aggressive 😬
We actually found out that we have the conservative pops. So aggressive will be much more… aggressive lol
@@KDMStation if that’s conservative I’m excited to hear the aggressive pops when my ECU comes in this week 😂
@@iamcoryv4144 ... hey man how's the aggressive tune sound ? I too opted for the aggressive and curious hows its gonna sound ?
@@johnw7597 sounds great! It’s kind of hard to describe but the crackles are more common and the exhaust has a deeper sound in my opinion
So Sxth provided a Spared ECU to swap out the stock one. But on there website I only see Veloster Mods. DO most veloster mods just work with the EN as well? Super new to Modding cars and im trynna be careful on what to get
They have a section you can click on Elantra and then elantra N. I’ve bought a few things from them and I have always seen an Elantra icon.
Will you be logging data and getting tune tweaks?
Yes as mods come out that is when we will take advantage of that
Dude that exhaust thooo. What's done to it?
Lol just a resonator delete nothing other than that.
😯😯😯 EN with more crackles and pops! *adding to future EN shopping list*
ive been waiting so long for my elantra n to get a tune bro . the one for lap3 was crazy priced
We had lap3 on my wife’s last platform. Proud to made the switch to Sxth. Check them out you won’t be disappointed.
Are you running oem plugs? Is there a way to get rid of the cel? That would annoy me lol.. Also you should consider wearing a mic.. Can't hear you sometimes in the videos.
Yeah the CEL is gone. I’m
Not sure if the ek1 pro deleted it when I attempted to through the system cause it was still on the dashboard. But within a few minutes it disappeared so idk if the ecu learned the vin or what.
We have the stock plugs in right now but have the ngk heat range 9’s coming in. And I will look into the mic as well thank you for the recommendation 🙏🏽
Where did you get the steering wheel from?
SoCal Garageworks
could you describe what you selected when buying the spare ecu? im assuming the exhaust crackle is agressive, but what was the stage you chose and what max rpm (i assume 7200). also does the exhaust always crackle or is it like stock where only in n mode?
This is conservative Crackles not the aggressive option. Stage 1 and correct max is at 7000k now I believe. And the exhaust will only crackle in n mode no eco or normal.
@@KDMStation sweet 😋, thank you sm. Makes me wonder what the aggressive sounds like 🥶
nice video though man, she sounds great. I pick mine up on 6/16 !!
Thanks brotha, your going to love it!
What did it dyno before the tune🤔
Yes numbers please, and what are the differences based on this canned tune. Sorry but it is a canned tune unless you personally have it dynoed and tuned.
i thought you guys where gonna wait for the intercooler . to be release.. by sxth element.
Thankfully with the ek1 you can get tunes emailed and uploaded that way. Stage 1 is for stock with no mods. Once we get intake and fmic and downpipe it will go to stage 2
And it covers that circle.
Does this tune push u back into your seat?
You can feel the torque from the tune. Advertised power is 320-340whp so the car feels quick.
Do aftermarket tunes void the warranty?
Where u get that start button cover?
Real diamonds mined from innocent children
damn the ECU placement on this car is so much better than the VN
amazing
Great vid, lots of info, thanks ! Wondering what the benefit is to completely switching out the stock ecu for the SXTH ecu. Can someone just keep the stock ecu and tune it, and maybe it won't throw a check engine light?
Benefits of having a spare ecu is you can swap the stock ecu back in if your worried about the dealer checking for a tune. A majority of the time they don’t even scan the ecu to check. But the only reason we have a cel is because we have the ek1. The cel is no longer there as it was a software cel code for vin not matching. Nothing engine related. Nathan from sxth emailed us another email file with the correct info to fix the issue.
@@KDMStation thanks for that tip ! I've been binge watching and liking some of your other vids now and very appreciative. So is the light gone permanently now ? You just erased it and good to go ? Or does the light come back over time and you just live with it ? ... Which I've done many times in other vehicles, like when i put coilovers in my civic type r and lived with the light haha
@@UhhWhereAmI we appreciate the love, thank you for that. And yeah the light is permanently gone now. It was a small kink that our spare ecu wasn’t relaying the vin to the ek1 unit but now everything is golden.
What's the price this ran? Spare ECU, tuner and maps?
They no longer do spare ecu. So it’s the price of the ek1 lite or pro depending on which you’d like. And then whatever tune you choose.
Nice video. Great detail. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for the love. And we appreciate your support. Thank you.
Looking forward to some driving footage!
So the stock ecu is not flashable I take it? Figured that's the only reason to swap ECUs.
The stock ecu is flashable. But I wanted a spare ecu for worst case dealership visits
This raises boost , did you tighten the gap on your spark plugs ?
Yes we did we are running a .025 gap. We have that info in our spark plug video
Any support for the Kona N?
Absolutely. Sxth has quite a bit out for the Kona n
Great video! I had a question about connecting the ignition wiring. How do you have that setup and which fuse did you tap into?
Thank you! We actually didn’t use the blue wire tap because we don’t have the ek1 on all the time for gauges sometimes we keep it in the glovebox. But if you did want to use the ignition wire I would tap into an accessory fuse so it only turns on when the car is on. Media some labeled where it’s only on when the car is on.
@@KDMStationbro donde puedo poner el cable azul en el elantra n es que se queda prendio lo puse en modulo 5 y no se apaga al menos que tenga la opcion de auto apagado en on
Would I be able to use this for an Elantra N line? I just got the car but see nothing for this unless it’s a N
No as of now I believe the only option for tuning is an ecu tune.
Does this remove octane learning?
Yes thankfully that’s completely gone now. Depending on your tune it’ll be consistent boost.
Do i need to do a stage 1 tune before getting a stage 2? Just got my 23 elantra n and i know nothing about this but i definitely want even more powerrr😂
Not at all! The only thing you would need for stage 2 is the supporting mods. Which are step colder plugs, downpipe, and hpfp. The rest are just supporting mods that you can add later. And congrats on your new N!
can i just get tue ecu or icu lol what ever its called and how much is it? please let me know thanks
They do have a spare ecu option. You would have to contact sxth for their pricing.
Does this void your warranty?
does this void the manufacturer warranty? I wanna do this but worried about that?
You should get familiar with the magnuson v. moss act to know how warranty works. They can deny a claim but not void a warranty. And they also have the prove said part caused the defect. But that’s not anything we are worried about 😊
Does the ecu need to be replaced when using the ek1 or can you use it more like a cobb or hondata?
Yes the ecu needs to be unlocked. So either sent in to be unlocked or order a spare ecu that’s unlocked for the ek1 to pair too.
hi this that ecu is stage 1 or 2
Stage 1
Great video! You broke it down, and I feel confident that I could make this upgrade myself. Quick question, if you swap the ECU back to stock, does the check engine light flip back off? Like for instance if I would want to take mine back to the dealership for any reason.
Thank you 🙏🏽 so for the cel you won’t have that issue like we had. We had the cel due to the vin not matching but this was when the ek1 just came out and sxth was working on the little issues. Now everything is good to go with no issues. You’ll be able to have your stock tune on the device and you won’t need to put in a spare ecu. The device can load the stock tune back onto the ecu.
You are amazing! Thank you for the information!! 😊
So I'm assuming since you have to buy the unlocked ecu, You can just swap the stock ecu back in when getting service done at the dealership to avoid voiding your warranty?
Yes or have the ability to flash this ecu back to stock and reflash it with the tune after the dealer.
@@KDMStation Well I know for a fact the dealership will have the ability to know if you've flashed the ECU. So maybe it'll be a better idea to reinstall the original ECU if you have to bring the car in for a major repair..
@@Ch12iSx727 yeah that’s why we purchased the spare ecu 😊
ill definitely be waiting out my warranty with the N but im glad to see somebody testing it and looking forward to how it keeps up in the coming months, know excatly how much extra pound's of boost its tuned too??
I actually didn’t even really bother looking at the gauge while we were driving cause of how much fun it was but lol. But if I remember correctly I think my eye saw 21-23
Not sure how I missed this lol what is the 0-60 with this tune?
How much was this ?
I am trying not to modify my Elantra N yet...you are not helping.
First off🥇, Emily congrats on the beautiful machine that you are building! Second 🥈 , I noticed the VN in the back my mans , now that one is yours Henry?
What's the dif between this, jb4 or or Afe?
Thank you Jason! I traded in the genesis due to my engine builders neglect. It was a sad decision but overall I’m happy with what I chose 😬 biggest difference is this is an actual tune rather than the jb4 or afe tapping into sensors and tricking the ecu into thinking it’s seeing stock boost when it isn’t and same thing with all the other variables it tricks the ecu. The ecu tune for us was the best route
SXTH already dynoed the EN at 280 WHP stock no? So i sure hope with a tune it can make 300 WHP. Heck, a downpipe and air intake should get it close if the stock 280 whp was true.
basic bolt ons and a proper tune , this should be making 325 whp +
Yeah sxth already has a dyno showing what numbers it made with just the tune and than their intake. We didn’t make the video to brag about numbers just posted it so people have a basic understanding where this should put them..
Awesome Video guys. I am interested doing it also. Does it going to void warranty? Let me know. Thanks
Please what was the price in total .
Ek1 is around $900 and spare ecu with tune is around $900 as well
Thanks I’m saving . Went poor after getting the car . For 34k$ 🥵
@@Arkeny-SS I feel that lol.
Obviously this is better than jB4 or lap3 tune but could you possibly explain the benefits/difference to a noob to tuning it would be appreciated. Thank u.
Their CPLT intake will produce an actual gain since you have that tune now, I'm sure you'll be getting that next🤔
Yes, sxth is the intake we will be waiting on due to the aesthetics of it as well as performance.
@@KDMStation well it looks like the gain is 9-13 hp since you have the tune. I like that SXTH is honest about a zero gain on a stock car. I had the CPLT intake on my 2018 Elantra Sport and because of its stock intake not being efficient it did make a gain on a stock tune.
I hope you show the CEL going away after putting in the VIN# because it puts the element of fear/doubt in this product. I would only use that screen only if I needed to do something, other than it's just another screen on the dash that doesn't flow with the stock look, plus it's a distraction...IMHO.
@@klasseact6663 I deleted the code and it hasn’t came back on. I’ll put on at least 100 miles to verify and if it doesn’t come back then it’s nothing To worry about.
@@KDMStation Did you just erase it or did you put the actual Vin number in
@@klasseact6663 I erased it. the ek1 pro shows it has the correct vin to the car so we know it’s linked. When I erased it off the ek1 pro it didn’t go away right away though. So there could be a chance the ecu caught the vin and it went away lol.
It just got recalled :(
Sailor Moon? :)
Lol great tune with a CEL..
Lmao the cel is from vin number not matching which is getting worked out… but yes great tune 🤙🏽
@@KDMStation Did this get worked out? Can you give a little more detail on what caused the CEL?
@@CallOfBooty13 cel was causing by the vin numbers not matching up. We were the first Elantra N running the ek1 pro so we had some small kinks to fix out when we made this video. Now sxth has everything straightened away. You don’t even need to buy a spare ecu anymore like we did. You can flash directly to your oem ecu and keep your stock ecu tune on the ek1 device to flash back whenever you’d like. The cel we have now is from the downpipe. We aren’t running a 2nd o2 sensor due to the oem one binding onto the oem pipe. It’s only there to read that the cat is in place which is now a high flo cat so it threw a cel. It will be fixed once we get a replacement o2 sensor.
this voids warranty right lmao
“Anything” can void warranty lol
probably voided your warranty with that installed
They can’t void a warranty but they can deny a claim. This isn’t our first rodeo 🤠
@@KDMStation how would they be able to tell if you reinstall stock ecu?
@@boostlife6370 we did get a check engine light after installing the ecu due to incorrect vin not matching ecu. I’ve deleted the code and it’s no longer popping up. But when you get a cel I’m not sure if it send anything via blue link. If it were too I would just say I was having issues with the battery and play stupid.
@@KDMStation haha I got you. What if you just install the old ecu. I was kind of worried that blue link would monitor those types of things because there gonna loose so much money with warranty claims of tuned cars.
@@boostlife6370 yeah they’ve been doing this with blue link for awhile though since I want to say 13-14 gencoupe did had blue link. We just didn’t have the fancy screen to tell us what’s going on lol. But I’m sure if we put the stock ecu it would be perfect I’m just not sure how long the info is stored in the system. But warranty is always dependent on dealer. If you have a good relationship with them sometimes they are willing to work on claims
Lol why would you bother. It's already a rocket at stock. Warranty gone as well as track warranty. I would have waited.
Nope, no warranty is gone. We have a spare ecu that we can swap in at any time.
@@KDMStation pretty sure dealers can work that out no?
@@mharro88 from my previous experience with dealing with the little bit of warranty work we have had to. They never questioned our ecu when we swapped it back in.
its actually kinda slow stock
@@damienfrizzell9394 slow? It keeps up with a type r and basically beats everything else in it's segment on track it's not slow.
300whp is a bit low. I'm tuned and the dyno spit out 319whp. I wouldn't trust those cookie cutter sxth tunes and get one done on a dyno
There is nobody else to crack into these ecus except sxth, n75, lap3 and alphaspeed. And at the end of the day dyno numbers mean nothing. It’s a great baseline but powerband is where it’s at.
@@KDMStation i'm running N75 tuned excusively by Daniel him self.
@@MegaManX7 a street tune being datalogged is just as good if not better than a dyno tune. Your actually having the car under load unlike a dyno.
@@KDMStation my tune has been tweaked a few times so its not just all dyno numbers. If you know n75 you'll know his tunes are what everyone goes after. People buy the ek1 just to run a n75 tune. I had 300whp on a jb4 tune on the same dyno. I wont argue with ya. Just try a proper tune thats all
I’ve been in the kdm community for 12 years. I know a good tune. Lol n75 and sxth are both good