286 was the last that was/could be reverse engineered, not because of the collapse of USSR, but the 386 used copper metallization that could not be reversed at that time with the given technology. Aluminium was easy to etch away without damaging the rest of the structure.
It was possible to “remove” the structure of a microcircuit using ion plasma equipment regardless of metallization. but production in the Soviet Deputies was technologically behind the West by at least 15 years. and the complexity of the chip began to exceed the capabilities of the red thieves. and the quality reduced the meaning of attempts to zero - the yield of suitable products from the Reds was always catastrophically low, even on simple products, and on complex and large chips it would be zero.
@@geistgefallene1116 All of it is categorically more simple than EUV. EUV is mind breaking. And it's not like you can just make full wafer chips to compete with it. The pathways won't be fast enough. Sure, for parallel processing you might be able to do some things, but then you may as well just build a cluster. Either way, you're just not going to be competitive. Honestly, EUV might just be pushing silicon to it's furthest practical reaches, anyway. Politics slowed Moore's law, but it's not like Moore's law can be stopped. I'm curious where we go after EUV. People talked about graphine, I'm not sure. It, probably, can push a bit further than silicon, but we really need a new concept. Something a bit better. Quantum computing - to me - looks like a red herring. And they are, for sure, working on whatever is next right now. They pumped billions into EUV for YEARS, without anyone realizing it, until it showed it's face.
I mean, going by how things go, multiple layered EUV etched silicon would make the most sense to me, but the complexity is high. Still, that's the way circuit boards went. The shorter distances really make sense.
Though the soviet 286 might be just a rumor, little brother GDR did get the cloning done. The U80601, planned for the EC1835, used in the P8000 compact. I really like the semi transparent slots and switches. That thing leaves my EC1834 completely in the dust. Will it run Flight Simulator 4? A test of IBM compatibility.
We suppose it will. The previous owner has been using it as a usual 286 and played most of classic games; unfortunately for the safety reasons the machine is for a while stored away from where we are, so can't say when exactly will be the test run report.
There was also the U80701 which was used in the Robotron K 1820, an East German MicroVAX clone and possibly the only 32-bit workstation to be produced in the former GDR.
@@greekstraycats the device is up an running - this is a very old video actually, but we have a newer one with its review: th-cam.com/video/QpYPNV2A6eM/w-d-xo.html
The gray color and general design kinda reminds me of an Olivetti from around the same time. Although it also has a very Asian XT/286 clone style of that time too. Nothing wrong with any of that though. It looks much more contemporary of its time at least on the outside than a lot of earlier Soviet things. The inside has some pretty neat looking differences though.
@@ChernobylFamily just the way the boards and chips and components look is neat. It's not the usual that I see here in the US even of devices made then.
Olivetti's products and stores had the best designs. Apple basically copied Olivetti's design language after they brought in Ives. I wouldn't compare them to whatever this is.
FYI, КР1847ВМ286 was introduced in 1989, Л1876ВМ1 which was RISC CPU compatible with i386 instruction set architecture was introduced in 1991. They did not spread to consumer electronics mainly because they were expensive (even more than western counterparts - economy of scale) and military took almost all production for their own need. EDIT: Btw, after USSR dissolution, Russia was in soo deep shit, that its industry was unable to move in CPU production technology beyond i386 until 1997. So meanwhile USSR at end of its existence were capable to migitate mikron gap, after dissolution and access to western money and technology, this gap significantly widened.
Here is the question: did you ever see that chip? Or at least a picture of it? I believe I might be wrong, but seriously, I never ever have seen it no matter how I searched, and not only in web. I said it did not exist because this is what I heard from the scientists of the institute of cybernetics, who were very much in chip production at KVAZAR factory and who in very good contact with INTEGRAL which allegedly developed that IC. They told that some experimental prototypes maybe did exist, but here the situation is likely similar to PC400 that followed that laptop we reviewed recently - it was even added to catalogs and had a price assigned, but in fact there existed a single laptop produced as a model and there is one empty case from it in a private collection. You can find КР1847ВМ286 in the IC lists, but so far I do not see any evidence it was actually produced or at least passed testing - neither before 1991 not after it. A chipset chip, a clone of ST62BC003, however, did exist, but also as experimental. To Л1876ВМ1 I have no questions; but. that chip is from ±1998.
"Л1876ВМ1 which was RISC CPU compatible with i386 instruction set architecture was introduced in 1991. " Umm, I would strongly advice to understand the rudiments of processor architecture and how it relates to things like instruction sets BEFORE you try to invent fictitious processor types. You'd at least learn why a "RISC CPU compatible with i386 instruction set" is as likely as self levitating pigs going supersonic and being able to bottle and sell dryness. A clue being that there never has been, and never will be any RISC i386 compatible anything, because i386 compatibility by definition makes it NOT RISC.
@@josephkanowitz6875 Well, Reduced Instruction Set Computing (RISC) is a term used to describe essentially the raw machine code instructions or commands that a CPU can execute. Each instruction corresponds in a sense to parts or a combination of parts that make up the circuit of the CPU. For example, in CISC you might have + and - as separate instructions as well as a bit flip to turn for example 5 into -5 in the instruction stack. In a RISC CPU to save on silicon you'd remove SUB(subtract) as an ASM instruction and use ADD to achieve the same thing by flipping one of the values to a negative and adding them. So, if you try to run CISC code on a RISC CPU you have zero chance of it working since by definition you'll be issuing commands to the CPU it doesn't know. The change from using subtract to bit flip and add has to be done in the code, usually at compiler level. Just one example, but this is why a i386 compatible RISC CPU is impossible by definition. i386 compatible defines that it is NOT a RISC, i386 compatible defines it as a CISC CPU, it's a requirement for "i386 compatible" for it to NOT be a RISC chip.
Thanks for making this! In the 90s I worked at Sams Wholesale. We sold a series of pcs similar in that there was a separate board for the cpu and ram that could be swapped out to upgrade the whole pc for minimal cost. Can't remember the brand. You could buy in relatively cheap, get your feet wet and upgrade down the road if you wanted. 486 was the highest it would go.
I'm fascinated that YT suddenly decided to promote this ancient video. Thanks for sharing and check the test run of this computer - we have it on our channel.
Could be Compaq that you sold. It was called split board to have a CPU plug-in card. I had several of them in the mid 90s. Some other manufacturers did the same but I can't recall the names.
"Бесценная машина" Москва убила компьютер К-202, потому что он был разработан польским, а не советским инженером. И не важно, что это был более дешевый и быстрый настольный компьютер, чем компьютеры IBM, выпущенные 10 лет спустя... Так что ДА, этот компьютер бесценен, это бесценное доказательство шовинизма и недальновидности русских...
hy !! the 2 rarest electronic devices i had in my hands were a color tv made with vacuum tubes. it was made in Spain in early 70's. and a tv rf amplifier for a building antenna .with 3 vacuum tubes. one for Ac/DC rectifier and a VHF and UHF tv channels. Great videos !! regards from Mallorca, Spain !
Greetings! this is super old video, check a continuation where run this computer: th-cam.com/video/QpYPNV2A6eM/w-d-xo.html and also our newer episodes which are muuuch better than this :)
This indigenous graphics card looks very interesting with its use of 4 separate ASICs. Could we get a closer look at it (graphics demo + hi-res pictures) and maybe know a little bit more about its history and the people behind it? Thank you for your dedication, your channel is a masterpiece in Soviet electronics history.
Thank you! Don't forget, this is a terribly old video, I honestly do not know why YT started to massively recommend it. We have a continuation where this machine has a test-run - check it out, as well as out latest episodes, there is much interesting.
An interesting mix of Soviet and Western parts. This was from the era of Perestroika, and the eventual fall of the Iron Courtain, I guess the restrictions were getting less strict in importing Western technology at that time.
Similar story in Yugoslavia. In the early 80s when computers arrived, the government banned imports of computers. There were a few domestically produced 6502 and Z80 computers, they were decent for the time but severely limited in software compared to for example C64 or ZX Spectrum. Mostly used in schools and by some enthusiasts. However, importation of components was never restricted, so lots of people imported C64s and ZX Spectrums from West Germany piece by piece and assembled them at home. Eventually the government realized how pointless it is, lifted the ban and by 1986 or so everyone who could afford a Commodore had one at home. Most schools were equipped with a few ZX Spectrums. Large companies like banks had very sophisticated domestically produced mainframes. I guess there was no reason to import them cause something like an IBM 360 would do mostly the same job. Though by the 70s and 80s there were also a lot of foreign mainframes or those produced under license. Smaller businesses just had IBM PCs, they were so good and there was no point in making clones.
Those restrictions were not as strict, and Iron Curtain wasn't as much Iron-y than thought today. $$ exchange and trade was pretty open and big, it's just whole of USSR acted as one big company as opposed to thousands big and small companies in the capitalism (i.e trade was limited by how much Soviet government thought they wanted to trade: they were pretty open in trade to Europe and Japan and eastern countries, but Europe - probably as much trade was between Eu and USSR as between Eu and USA)
@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc In the cold war, the US and its Western allies didn't want to sell anything to the USSR that can be weaponized, or can be used to develop or make weapons. However in the second half of the 1980s, relations between the US/West and the Soviet Union has become less tense, thanks to Gorbachev, and those trade restrictions has gradually lifted.
I worked for Intel back in the day of the 286. This is really amazing what they did with discrete IC's and PGA's (some made in Texas I see). The ISA bus isn't much of a challenge but I suspect the Russia 286 is much slower than a real one. I wonder if you canm measure the time it take the Ru board to do a task switch ? It's tough being 30 years behind in 2100's. You can never catch up even if the US gave them the technology.
Thank you for sharing! Well, this is a very, very old video, and we actually have a video with a test run of this machine - check it out. To address your question, to be accurate, it is not a russian computer but Belarusian. All programs for cloning those chips were in the realm of the Integral factory in Minsk, Belarus. The russian industry, specifically, never reached what Integral did. Yes, there are rumors about that mythical clone of the 286 made by Integral (referred to as КА1847ВМ286, КФ1847ВМ286, or К1847ВМ2). However, I do not know anyone, including chip collectors and quite respected computer scientists, who ever saw it physically or at least in a picture. There is a chance it existed only on paper; there is a chance it was de facto produced only, e. g. for military use and could be marked in some non-standard way, hence unknown/forgotten nowadays - for example, see our recent video about the Belarusian laptop (made at Integral as well, where the 80C86 clone is marked as DL-24, which is out of any standards). So, in this very particular computer, all main chips are original Intel, and based on that test run, I cannot say there is any difference in performance. It just works like a usual 286. At least, it feels so. The video was recorded two weeks before the war started here in Ukraine, so I needed to relocate that machine to a safe location to save it as it is very, very rare. And it appeared to be a good decision, as our hometown was under occupation on the first day of the russian invasion. So the computer is still stored in the safe place. We picked it up for a while to make a continuation and then returned it. Although I have a chance to do what you ask for, it will take some time.
I am sorry for that, but well, in Ukraine we have a proverb "if it works - don't touch". That controller a bit stuck in the backplane board (it is not really a motherboard) connector, and connectors are made from a, uhm, untrustworthy plastic. I just did not want to risk to apply a force for a so rare computer. As for the backplane board, where I could reach it with camera, it is on video.
@@ChernobylFamily thanks pal! :) Those PCBs are gorgeous! Made in USSR!!! For gaming try a very good modern platformer in text mode called MagiDuck made in 2015-2018 and awso you you want try my MOD for it from 2019 called MegaMan Jetpack Adventures:)
@@ChernobylFamily actually "if it works do not touch it" we awso suse , but some times it is a dubble ege knife ... Several times I did not changed capacitors from a retro consoles , and they died 😞 (elecrolite eate the traces)
I worked for a while on an IBM 286 some time in the mid 1980s. I was quite proud of it because it was the first PC I'd ever worked on with two 8 inch floppy drives. But no mouse or HD and just the DOS command line interface. I programmed some pretty cool stuff on it, games, tools for communicating with other machines over telephone lines and printer/plotter drivers. Cool that is for the time.
tis a shame the soviets gave up on making computers so what if they could no longer clone the intel chips that just means they would have to innovate and make their own computer but they gave up sadly
This video does not touch on the reason why the Soviets wanted the ‘286 and why the US did not want it exported, which is an interesting part of the story. The ‘286 was the central component that changed between the AIM9J and AIM9L Sidewinder missiles. With the 9J, pilots had to get behind their target for the missile to track; closing speeds were too fast in a head-on fight for the missile to track reliably. With the ‘286 processor, the 9L “all aspect” Sidewinder missile finally had a CPU that was fast enough to track opposing fighters in a head-on fight, giving NATO fighter planes a distinct advantage by being able to pull the trigger first.
The ISA slots used pure gold wires as contacts in the connectors???!!?!?!?!?! That'd be craaaazy! And not just because how expensive gold is. :) Gold is so soft that you'd risk the contacts deflecting instead of springing back when inserting a card edge connector, meaning you'd get no contact there, potentially causing data corruption and/or possibly hardware failure.
I think I prefer the older machine with the horizontal boards, probably because it is totally different from anything I've seen, PC wise. It's a pity the Soviets just copied wester tech rather than coming up with their own solutions.
1841 is legendary. And seems we still do not know all about it - actually those cases perfectly fit into 19" rack, looks like embedded versions were planned.
@@ChernobylFamily in fact there was made whole working industrial ibm-pc clone in bulgaria - named mik - with those euro-connectors much more reliable than the ibm slots. it was made with two types of video - cga and vga, all parts fully compatible with original periphery and components of its time. how do i know this? i do own one piece of this industrial-grade (embedded) ibm-pc named mik with both videocards - cga and ega. at that times vga was not invented, so no vga inside. if searching such rarity - the name of the organisation cloning/imitating this pc is itkr. and no, i will not sell or exchange my mik.
@@ChernobylFamily Going back decades ago, I read the Soviet engineers would be give a western built computer and would do what they can to copy it. The article indicated they did an excellent job at it. I remember the Russians copies the Leica 35mm film camera. They copied it so exact right down to the alloys of metals and the finishing on it, it was almost impossible to be able to tell if it was an original or not. It also worked exactly the way it should and to the same quality level. The Russians also produced exact copies of the Leica lenses and accessories. They also deciphered the coding sequence for the Leica serial numbers. The Russian copy of this camera was so accurate if someone brought it to Leica themselves to service it, Leica would service it and be able to use original parts if necessary. They did an amazing job at it.
We do not have this computer anymore to check, but from what I remember those are either red (better to say, pink) variation of ceramic and a few of them were white with pink varnish. Soviets used pink ceramic, but normally in different form-factors and for military/scientific application.
Wow I had no idea that the Soviets were cloning these computers (I knew the South Africans were but not the Soviets). Who was using these computers? (ie: who were they cloned for? - universities?). I was under the impression the Soviets were using big chunky machines in Government facilities only. . I personally upgraded so many 8086 boards into 286 - to see the boards with gold contacts is a real wow. I am now curious as to the typical software being installed... lotus? quattro pro.. any word processor like Wordstar? . Glad I came across this channel. You have a new subscriber
We are actually really surprised YT suddenly started to recommend this super old and actually quite badly made video :) To your question: there were numerous machines cloned - we reviewed many of them on our channel. ES-18xx were considered professional workstation and referred as such in documentation, so technically your guess is right. This however, did not prevent some private users to be licky to get one for very big money. ES-1849 and its successor 1863 were produced even in 1990s but more as an attempt to keep industry alive. From the point of a user experience, 1849 is a pretty good 286, it just works. How reliable it was, is an open question. As for the software: there are three videos about ES-1841 (hardware, expansion cards, test run) so in the third one with the test run you can see some examples of the adapted software. In many cases though origonal was used if they could get it. In 1991 and after getting foreign software was no longer a problem.
1863 card sounds like a very possible scenario and surely it will work. I actually plugged 1849's card to a regular 386 machine as well and they also passed all tests. BTW, this is super old video, therr is a co tinuation with this computer in action - check it out!
This is belarusian pc, russians did not achieve even this..) i am just trying to get why you call it 'pos' if it has original intel cpu, and actually, it works very well - check one more video with its test run we have.
It is hard to say. They loved cloning, but specifically this factory often reworked things very much. This video is very old, but we have many more examples of their products reviewed.
Polish K-202 from 1970 was faster and cheaper than IBM PC produced 10 years later... So imagine if Soviets did not killed this project and forced K-202 inventor to literally switching his profesion to a pig farmer, in an interview from that time for local Polish TV he simply said that he prefers to work with this pigs, because this pigs are much nicer than the previous that he was forced to work with... And yea, K-202 was also 16bit like this crapy quality copy of 286 so many years later. K-202 was using multiple chips but even with that more complicated in production technology its price was only 1/10 of the western competition...
@@Bialy_1 Soviet bureaucracy do more harm then good many times when it comes to computers, Soviet also lead the computer race in 1950s, then Khrushchev decided he knew better. This is why fools should never be in power regardless of economical systems.
I advice to take this amazing book which was recently published, "Innovation in Isolation". istpublishing.org/en/innovation-isolation-story-ukrainian-it-1940s-present They say they ship only within Ukraine, but I believe if you ask very much, they might find a solution.
Russians implement x86 archs and opcodes via forms of in circuit emulation, thats why Russian cpus are known to suck compared to their American competitors Cuz they couldn't afford to buy and couldn't figure out how to fabricate it Even the russian x86 (most probably still 32bit) cpus now are technically obsolete Compared to what you get in America
Interesting. I guess you had to be pretty high up in the food chain to have one of those in 1988. Western software would be problematic, because instead of ASCII it displays Cyrillic. In 1987 I designed an EGA graphics controller IC, using gate array technology of the day. It used about 10,500 gates. Some people said an EGA only needed 9,000 gates. However smart people were already starting to design VGA controller chips.
Thank you for sharing! As for this very device, although it had a cyrillic subset added instead of some preudographics, you could use a special resident driver to make it work again if needed. Last year we made a video about ES1841, there is an example of that in action. We do not have a native driver for 1849 but it should be.
This video is prehistoric :)) he not only used to this mouse but we gave him one (we had many of those) so he loved to play with it. BTW, check a somewhat newer video on out channel where this machine is running.
Excuse me? Edit: you mean who could have it? Intended for enterprises, BUT in early 90s could be purchased by privates. Though at that moment better westen machines appeared on market.
це не сама рідкісна машина. ще екзотичніша 1851 - 386sx процесор. якщо не дурить мене альцгеймер, то ще было щось накшталт 1853. але останнього екземпляра не бачив, і лише маю смутні спогади про якісь чутки. наймасовішими були 1840, 1841 - відбірне лайно як за якістю, так і за характеристиками. у всієї цієї техніки була лише одна позитивна риса - зашкаліний вміст дорогоцінних металів та кольорового лому.
Ну, по-перше це страшенно старе відео, зараз-то деякі речі вже сказали б по-іншому :) думаю, ви маєте не увазі 1863. Але ще рідкіснішими були ххх5 для військового використання. Щодо 1841, у нас є одна (див. інші відео). В принципі, коли ми її перебрали, відчуття від неї достатньо позитивне, якщо порівнювати з іншими "розробками".
@@ChernobylFamily позитив миттєво спливає у каналізацію, коли оте радянське лайно не колекціонуєш, а намагаєшся працювати на ньому або обслуговувати. це просто неповторне лайно - характеристики як у калькулятора, а ламалося воно не рідше разу в місяць. а ремонтувати не дозволялося, бо єксперімінтальниє аналоговнєтниє плати багатошарові чипати було просто страшно, щоб воно не разпливлося на туалетний папір. і весь ремонт закінчувався заміною дохлих модулів на працюючі, а дохлі слали на завод. а які вінчестери були на цьму лайні.... аж 20 мегабайт... і пам"ятали вони аж по півроку, потім склерозом било і треба було робити формат (іноді навіть низького рівня).... а одного разу я того вінчестера магнітом "форматував", бо каструля на 20 літрів не хотіла форматуватися більш ніж на 10.... незабутні відчуття від спілкування з тим анлоговнєтом залишилися на все життя. дотого ж у той самий час на заході вже буйно квітли айтішки, потім екстішки, 286, 386, 486.... а совки ліпили з лайна та гілок оті мамонти.... аж поки сам совок не здох....
@geistgefallene1116 з цієї сторони ви абсолютно праві і повністю погоджуюся. Дуже ненадійне залізо. Особливо про 8-шарові плати, які просто пропаяти неможливо.
@@ChernobylFamily саме так. з тодішніми інструментами зробити щось з тим аналоговнєтом було неможливо. та й металізація отворів була просто неймовірно "якісною" - савєцкою. кокую срану пратерялі. ))))) нехай щастить ))))
These chips aren’t really defined by onboard architecture. It’s possible to clone almost any chip if you’re willing to go to a larger size and slower speed. So nothing ever stopped Russia from producing a 386 or a 486 clone. But of course patents and copyrights would have been a different problem. Russia is part of the global I.P. network, so if they got into a patent dispute, then nobody would buy their totally unneeded crude oil. It’s easier to sell oil than to operate a factory. Russia, Saudi Arabia, and Nigeria get paid for doing nothing. At the same time, carbon emissions continue to increase because alcohol and hydrogen aren’t politically correct. The government insists that computerized electric cars are the only solution. But that electricity will still come from fossil fuel: coal and oil that emit carbon. So the government, in a ridiculous attempt to steal even more money, says that fossil fuel will continue and then there will be a new tax to remove the carbon. With communists, there reaches a point of insanity from which there is no return.
Russia was not producing that, Belarus did, and after collapse of the USSR continued. In fact, what stopped is the grade of the technological process used in 286 and above. They could not replicate that.
@@ChernobylFamily скільки тих компів 286-386 поиск, іскра, ми розкурочили в голодні нульові роки заради КМ. Ну це і не дивно, кілограм зелених у Києві коштував 800 дол. А тепер цілого справного і не знайти.
@@hryapacow420 В первую очередь БИС и СБИС своего производства уходили военным и в науку, затем на предприятия и образование. То что оставалось шло в коммерческие ПК. Доукомплектовывали их тем что было в наличии.
They have nothing that isn't either the result of espionage or direct theft like the Zeiss factory or Von Braun's V2 rockets. Do you have a Russian processor in you current computer? No because they can't hack stuff like that.
In the majority of cases you are right. Although there were good original ideas, which were suffocated by the state system. As for russian processors, well, we are not from Russia but from what we know they are still well behind.
This video is completely misleading... Before implementing own 80286, the Soviets made К1810ВМ86М and co-processor for it which effectively enabled protected mode and made it possible to run 80286 code and support up to 2MB or RAM.
You comment is completely misleading... Making that mode of operation in ES1842 is not equal to have the 286 crystal. Though the concept used was interesting.
Any ( not computers only) thing, work or service do the soviets was useless, big question why ? Because they do experiments like as a college students, nothing to do with practical use day by day, as like your wife cookin' 😂, everytime is a kitchen disaster, no ones wants to try ( even) taste for the sake of courtesy 😂😂😂😂😂
Don't offend my wife's cooking, as she does it damn good. To be historical accurate (NOT defending Soviets - we ate enough sh*t from them here in Ukraine), there were sometimes good ideas and talented engineers, who wanted good products. But all that was suppressed by communist regime, ending up with the approach and crap you are talking about. Except double-purpose applications.
USSR could not clone 80386 because the had not the technology - how to grow clean artificial silicon. A natural silicon is not clean enough to make quite small transistors.
Watch our new episode:th-cam.com/video/X12N5QeTYho/w-d-xo.html
@@ChernobylFamily okay
Electronic is so hard I can't understand specially microchips and it's assemblies
286 was the last that was/could be reverse engineered, not because of the collapse of USSR, but the 386 used copper metallization that could not be reversed at that time with the given technology. Aluminium was easy to etch away without damaging the rest of the structure.
Thanks for sharing!
IBM introduced copper interconnects in chips in 1997 and Intel adopted them after that, so many generations after the 386.
It was possible to “remove” the structure of a microcircuit using ion plasma equipment regardless of metallization. but production in the Soviet Deputies was technologically behind the West by at least 15 years. and the complexity of the chip began to exceed the capabilities of the red thieves. and the quality reduced the meaning of attempts to zero - the yield of suitable products from the Reds was always catastrophically low, even on simple products, and on complex and large chips it would be zero.
@@geistgefallene1116 All of it is categorically more simple than EUV. EUV is mind breaking. And it's not like you can just make full wafer chips to compete with it. The pathways won't be fast enough. Sure, for parallel processing you might be able to do some things, but then you may as well just build a cluster. Either way, you're just not going to be competitive. Honestly, EUV might just be pushing silicon to it's furthest practical reaches, anyway. Politics slowed Moore's law, but it's not like Moore's law can be stopped. I'm curious where we go after EUV. People talked about graphine, I'm not sure. It, probably, can push a bit further than silicon, but we really need a new concept. Something a bit better. Quantum computing - to me - looks like a red herring. And they are, for sure, working on whatever is next right now. They pumped billions into EUV for YEARS, without anyone realizing it, until it showed it's face.
I mean, going by how things go, multiple layered EUV etched silicon would make the most sense to me, but the complexity is high. Still, that's the way circuit boards went. The shorter distances really make sense.
I remember our Institute obtained a bunch of a Bulgarian made IBM PC copies in late 80s. Nobody new what it was meant for, everybody played Tetris.
Thanks for sharing!
hahahaah
Because quota's ruled USSR
Not demand.....
Why the West won in the end
Not the only reason but definitely was a factor
У меня такой дома стоял в 1992-1994. Нормальный AT, слегка шумный.
Ща на антресоли ?
Though the soviet 286 might be just a rumor, little brother GDR did get the cloning done. The U80601, planned for the EC1835, used in the P8000 compact.
I really like the semi transparent slots and switches. That thing leaves my EC1834 completely in the dust.
Will it run Flight Simulator 4? A test of IBM compatibility.
We suppose it will. The previous owner has been using it as a usual 286 and played most of classic games; unfortunately for the safety reasons the machine is for a while stored away from where we are, so can't say when exactly will be the test run report.
There was also the U80701 which was used in the Robotron K 1820, an East German MicroVAX clone and possibly the only 32-bit workstation to be produced in the former GDR.
@@ChernobylFamilyIt is good to keep such a device safe and we all hope it all comes to good end, soon. So better lets wait until this is guaranteed.
@@greekstraycats the device is up an running - this is a very old video actually, but we have a newer one with its review: th-cam.com/video/QpYPNV2A6eM/w-d-xo.html
@@ChernobylFamily wow, that's cool. Sorry I was a bit sleepy and didn't think to look for myself. I saw that this video is a bit older. Many thanks.
What I find amazing is how they insisted on still using slot screws at the end of the 80s...
...and by inertia in the 90-s.
I still use slot screws
Slot screws = best screw.
В России винты со шлицем используют ДО СИХ ПОР )))))))))))
The gray color and general design kinda reminds me of an Olivetti from around the same time. Although it also has a very Asian XT/286 clone style of that time too. Nothing wrong with any of that though. It looks much more contemporary of its time at least on the outside than a lot of earlier Soviet things. The inside has some pretty neat looking differences though.
Hm, did not think about Olivetti, but you have a good point! Which differences do you mean?
@@ChernobylFamily just the way the boards and chips and components look is neat. It's not the usual that I see here in the US even of devices made then.
@@Aeduo thank you!
BTW, as soon as we get that machine from the storage, we'll try to run it. For now, due to the war, had to relocate it.
@@ChernobylFamily definitely understandable reason for that.
Olivetti's products and stores had the best designs. Apple basically copied Olivetti's design language after they brought in Ives. I wouldn't compare them to whatever this is.
FYI, КР1847ВМ286 was introduced in 1989, Л1876ВМ1 which was RISC CPU compatible with i386 instruction set architecture was introduced in 1991.
They did not spread to consumer electronics mainly because they were expensive (even more than western counterparts - economy of scale) and military took almost all production for their own need.
EDIT: Btw, after USSR dissolution, Russia was in soo deep shit, that its industry was unable to move in CPU production technology beyond i386 until 1997. So meanwhile USSR at end of its existence were capable to migitate mikron gap, after dissolution and access to western money and technology, this gap significantly widened.
Here is the question: did you ever see that chip? Or at least a picture of it? I believe I might be wrong, but seriously, I never ever have seen it no matter how I searched, and not only in web.
I said it did not exist because this is what I heard from the scientists of the institute of cybernetics, who were very much in chip production at KVAZAR factory and who in very good contact with INTEGRAL which allegedly developed that IC. They told that some experimental prototypes maybe did exist, but here the situation is likely similar to PC400 that followed that laptop we reviewed recently - it was even added to catalogs and had a price assigned, but in fact there existed a single laptop produced as a model and there is one empty case from it in a private collection. You can find КР1847ВМ286 in the IC lists, but so far I do not see any evidence it was actually produced or at least passed testing - neither before 1991 not after it. A chipset chip, a clone of ST62BC003, however, did exist, but also as experimental.
To Л1876ВМ1 I have no questions; but. that chip is from ±1998.
"Л1876ВМ1 which was RISC CPU compatible with i386 instruction set architecture was introduced in 1991. " Umm, I would strongly advice to understand the rudiments of processor architecture and how it relates to things like instruction sets BEFORE you try to invent fictitious processor types. You'd at least learn why a "RISC CPU compatible with i386 instruction set" is as likely as self levitating pigs going supersonic and being able to bottle and sell dryness.
A clue being that there never has been, and never will be any RISC i386 compatible anything, because i386 compatibility by definition makes it NOT RISC.
@@noth606 ב''ה, while I certainly have no idea what Elbrus et al. realized or not, have a look at the history of NexGen a few years later.
@@josephkanowitz6875 Well, Reduced Instruction Set Computing (RISC) is a term used to describe essentially the raw machine code instructions or commands that a CPU can execute. Each instruction corresponds in a sense to parts or a combination of parts that make up the circuit of the CPU. For example, in CISC you might have + and - as separate instructions as well as a bit flip to turn for example 5 into -5 in the instruction stack. In a RISC CPU to save on silicon you'd remove SUB(subtract) as an ASM instruction and use ADD to achieve the same thing by flipping one of the values to a negative and adding them. So, if you try to run CISC code on a RISC CPU you have zero chance of it working since by definition you'll be issuing commands to the CPU it doesn't know. The change from using subtract to bit flip and add has to be done in the code, usually at compiler level.
Just one example, but this is why a i386 compatible RISC CPU is impossible by definition. i386 compatible defines that it is NOT a RISC, i386 compatible defines it as a CISC CPU, it's a requirement for "i386 compatible" for it to NOT be a RISC chip.
Thanks for making this! In the 90s I worked at Sams Wholesale. We sold a series of pcs similar in that there was a separate board for the cpu and ram that could be swapped out to upgrade the whole pc for minimal cost. Can't remember the brand. You could buy in relatively cheap, get your feet wet and upgrade down the road if you wanted. 486 was the highest it would go.
I'm fascinated that YT suddenly decided to promote this ancient video. Thanks for sharing and check the test run of this computer - we have it on our channel.
Could be Compaq that you sold.
It was called split board to have a CPU plug-in card. I had several of them in the mid 90s.
Some other manufacturers did the same but I can't recall the names.
Бесценная машина, еще есть ЕС 1864. Но очень большая редкость.
"Бесценная машина" Москва убила компьютер К-202, потому что он был разработан польским, а не советским инженером.
И не важно, что это был более дешевый и быстрый настольный компьютер, чем компьютеры IBM, выпущенные 10 лет спустя...
Так что ДА, этот компьютер бесценен, это бесценное доказательство шовинизма и недальновидности русских...
@Bialy_1 oh yes... a classical situation if those times.
@@Bialy_1 , своим оригинальным архитектурам у нас тоже развития не давали. Например, Электроника НЦ.
@@Bialy_1 ты таблетки забыл принять, шизофреник. из тебя русофобия зелёной жижой течет...
hy !! the 2 rarest electronic devices i had in my hands were a color tv made with vacuum tubes. it was made in Spain in early 70's. and a tv rf amplifier for a building antenna .with 3 vacuum tubes. one for Ac/DC rectifier and a VHF and UHF tv channels. Great videos !! regards from Mallorca, Spain !
Thank you! Cheers!
careful with those screws, they seem to shed fragments...
Thank you!
Nice video!! I'm from Argentina!
Greetings! this is super old video, check a continuation where run this computer: th-cam.com/video/QpYPNV2A6eM/w-d-xo.html and also our newer episodes which are muuuch better than this :)
Reminds me of the joke "Soviet microchips are the biggest microchips in the world! They also fitted with two handles for convenient carrying"
Check our video about DVK-3. There you will see THE chip.
This indigenous graphics card looks very interesting with its use of 4 separate ASICs.
Could we get a closer look at it (graphics demo + hi-res pictures) and maybe know a little bit more about its history and the people behind it?
Thank you for your dedication, your channel is a masterpiece in Soviet electronics history.
Thank you! Don't forget, this is a terribly old video, I honestly do not know why YT started to massively recommend it. We have a continuation where this machine has a test-run - check it out, as well as out latest episodes, there is much interesting.
@@ChernobylFamily Thank you very much, I will be sure to do that!
It's definitely worth playing Doom on it.
An interesting mix of Soviet and Western parts. This was from the era of Perestroika, and the eventual fall of the Iron Courtain, I guess the restrictions were getting less strict in importing Western technology at that time.
Yes, you are right
Similar story in Yugoslavia.
In the early 80s when computers arrived, the government banned imports of computers. There were a few domestically produced 6502 and Z80 computers, they were decent for the time but severely limited in software compared to for example C64 or ZX Spectrum. Mostly used in schools and by some enthusiasts. However, importation of components was never restricted, so lots of people imported C64s and ZX Spectrums from West Germany piece by piece and assembled them at home.
Eventually the government realized how pointless it is, lifted the ban and by 1986 or so everyone who could afford a Commodore had one at home. Most schools were equipped with a few ZX Spectrums.
Large companies like banks had very sophisticated domestically produced mainframes. I guess there was no reason to import them cause something like an IBM 360 would do mostly the same job. Though by the 70s and 80s there were also a lot of foreign mainframes or those produced under license.
Smaller businesses just had IBM PCs, they were so good and there was no point in making clones.
@@glossymouse7712 those are the stories that have to be told loud. Thank you for sharing. Seriously.
Those restrictions were not as strict, and Iron Curtain wasn't as much Iron-y than thought today.
$$ exchange and trade was pretty open and big, it's just whole of USSR acted as one big company as opposed to thousands big and small companies in the capitalism (i.e trade was limited by how much Soviet government thought they wanted to trade: they were pretty open in trade to Europe and Japan and eastern countries, but Europe - probably as much trade was between Eu and USSR as between Eu and USA)
@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc In the cold war, the US and its Western allies didn't want to sell anything to the USSR that can be weaponized, or can be used to develop or make weapons. However in the second half of the 1980s, relations between the US/West and the Soviet Union has become less tense, thanks to Gorbachev, and those trade restrictions has gradually lifted.
Thank you very much, love your channel
Thank you! Check other our videos...)
I worked for Intel back in the day of the 286. This is really amazing what they did with discrete IC's and PGA's (some made in Texas I see). The ISA bus isn't much of a challenge but I suspect the Russia 286 is much slower than a real one. I wonder if you canm measure the time it take the Ru board to do a task switch ? It's tough being 30 years behind in 2100's. You can never catch up even if the US gave them the technology.
Thank you for sharing! Well, this is a very, very old video, and we actually have a video with a test run of this machine - check it out.
To address your question, to be accurate, it is not a russian computer but Belarusian. All programs for cloning those chips were in the realm of the Integral factory in Minsk, Belarus. The russian industry, specifically, never reached what Integral did. Yes, there are rumors about that mythical clone of the 286 made by Integral (referred to as КА1847ВМ286, КФ1847ВМ286, or К1847ВМ2). However, I do not know anyone, including chip collectors and quite respected computer scientists, who ever saw it physically or at least in a picture. There is a chance it existed only on paper; there is a chance it was de facto produced only, e. g. for military use and could be marked in some non-standard way, hence unknown/forgotten nowadays - for example, see our recent video about the Belarusian laptop (made at Integral as well, where the 80C86 clone is marked as DL-24, which is out of any standards). So, in this very particular computer, all main chips are original Intel, and based on that test run, I cannot say there is any difference in performance. It just works like a usual 286. At least, it feels so.
The video was recorded two weeks before the war started here in Ukraine, so I needed to relocate that machine to a safe location to save it as it is very, very rare. And it appeared to be a good decision, as our hometown was under occupation on the first day of the russian invasion. So the computer is still stored in the safe place. We picked it up for a while to make a continuation and then returned it. Although I have a chance to do what you ask for, it will take some time.
those PCB are so beautiful! But why you did not show us the mothered board and the floppy and drive controller ? :(
I am sorry for that, but well, in Ukraine we have a proverb "if it works - don't touch". That controller a bit stuck in the backplane board (it is not really a motherboard) connector, and connectors are made from a, uhm, untrustworthy plastic. I just did not want to risk to apply a force for a so rare computer. As for the backplane board, where I could reach it with camera, it is on video.
But look, we are considering to make a gaming episode on ES1849, so for you I will try to take it out if i'll find a way, ok?
@@ChernobylFamily thanks pal! :) Those PCBs are gorgeous! Made in USSR!!! For gaming try a very good modern platformer in text mode called MagiDuck made in 2015-2018 and awso you you want try my MOD for it from 2019 called MegaMan Jetpack Adventures:)
@@ChernobylFamily actually "if it works do not touch it" we awso suse , but some times it is a dubble ege knife ... Several times I did not changed capacitors from a retro consoles , and they died 😞 (elecrolite eate the traces)
I worked for a while on an IBM 286 some time in the mid 1980s. I was quite proud of it because it was the first PC I'd ever worked on with two 8 inch floppy drives. But no mouse or HD and just the DOS command line interface. I programmed some pretty cool stuff on it, games, tools for communicating with other machines over telephone lines and printer/plotter drivers. Cool that is for the time.
Thank you for sharing!
8" floppies? Really?
@@xpusostomos Yep, 8 inch. And after that came the 5.25 and then the 3.5 inch floppy.
@@xpusostomos 8" floppies were epic things...
@@ChernobylFamily and weird to realise they can't hold even 1 MP3 song
I have an engineering sample line card for a DMS-100 switch, printed with BNR on the silk screen. So likely it's a very low number thing.
tis a shame the soviets gave up on making computers so what if they could no longer clone the intel chips that just means they would have to innovate and make their own computer but they gave up sadly
Its absolutely amazing
Thank you! Check our other videos
Looks kinda like an old Zenith 248 computer with backplane and plug in cpu and memory cards.
This video does not touch on the reason why the Soviets wanted the ‘286 and why the US did not want it exported, which is an interesting part of the story. The ‘286 was the central component that changed between the AIM9J and AIM9L Sidewinder missiles. With the 9J, pilots had to get behind their target for the missile to track; closing speeds were too fast in a head-on fight for the missile to track reliably. With the ‘286 processor, the 9L “all aspect” Sidewinder missile finally had a CPU that was fast enough to track opposing fighters in a head-on fight, giving NATO fighter planes a distinct advantage by being able to pull the trigger first.
This gives me a feeling of tenderness.
:))
The ISA slots used pure gold wires as contacts in the connectors???!!?!?!?!?! That'd be craaaazy! And not just because how expensive gold is. :) Gold is so soft that you'd risk the contacts deflecting instead of springing back when inserting a card edge connector, meaning you'd get no contact there, potentially causing data corruption and/or possibly hardware failure.
I believe it is more a thick gold-plating.
Looks like any other EC on the outside, but the cards look wild! Especially the Graphics card.
Yess. BTW if you plug them in a normal PC, they work well.
@@ChernobylFamily I think I had at least parts of an EC 1840. It had weird Euro connector cards that othwerwise looked like normal ISA cards.
@@AmstradExin hmmm.... this does not sound as ES1840 as it has squary cards like 1841. Do you have a picture?
@@ChernobylFamily OOps, my bad. It was called the EC 1834
Looking at the insides of an 8086 again made me feel so old...
I have the same feelings... well, this is very old video - check the continuation where we run this machine...
you are! eat more cod liver oil and garlic capsules like me!
This EC is abbreviation of jedinaja sistema?
Yes.
I think I prefer the older machine with the horizontal boards, probably because it is totally different from anything I've seen, PC wise.
It's a pity the Soviets just copied wester tech rather than coming up with their own solutions.
1841 is legendary. And seems we still do not know all about it - actually those cases perfectly fit into 19" rack, looks like embedded versions were planned.
@@ChernobylFamily in fact there was made whole working industrial ibm-pc clone in bulgaria - named mik - with those euro-connectors much more reliable than the ibm slots. it was made with two types of video - cga and vga, all parts fully compatible with original periphery and components of its time. how do i know this? i do own one piece of this industrial-grade (embedded) ibm-pc named mik with both videocards - cga and ega. at that times vga was not invented, so no vga inside. if searching such rarity - the name of the organisation cloning/imitating this pc is itkr. and no, i will not sell or exchange my mik.
This Soviet computer appears to be designed at the same type of format as the Zenith PCs of the time.
Yes, reminds it very much.
@@ChernobylFamily
Going back decades ago, I read the Soviet engineers would be give a western built computer and would do what they can to copy it. The article indicated they did an excellent job at it.
I remember the Russians copies the Leica 35mm film camera. They copied it so exact right down to the alloys of metals and the finishing on it, it was almost impossible to be able to tell if it was an original or not. It also worked exactly the way it should and to the same quality level. The Russians also produced exact copies of the Leica lenses and accessories. They also deciphered the coding sequence for the Leica serial numbers.
The Russian copy of this camera was so accurate if someone brought it to Leica themselves to service it, Leica would service it and be able to use original parts if necessary. They did an amazing job at it.
Вообще их начали делать с конца 1991 года, а в видео модификация 1993-го, с чипсетом VLSI.
For a second I thought the EGA board had red ceramic ICs! Then saw they’re just red stickers on normal white ceramic. Heh.
We do not have this computer anymore to check, but from what I remember those are either red (better to say, pink) variation of ceramic and a few of them were white with pink varnish. Soviets used pink ceramic, but normally in different form-factors and for military/scientific application.
Those are thick film resistor networks, and yes, you are right, the the top is painted. There existed white, green, red colors, maybe more.
Some online say, that cacheless processors still have 1 kb cache.
Interesting
A ray tracing benchmark test is needed.
Ray tracing... lol
I had EC1840. It was a two separate piece monster. :D
We have a very detailed review of ES1841 in 3 videos on this channel.
Wow I had no idea that the Soviets were cloning these computers (I knew the South Africans were but not the Soviets). Who was using these computers? (ie: who were they cloned for? - universities?). I was under the impression the Soviets were using big chunky machines in Government facilities only.
.
I personally upgraded so many 8086 boards into 286 - to see the boards with gold contacts is a real wow. I am now curious as to the typical software being installed... lotus? quattro pro.. any word processor like Wordstar?
.
Glad I came across this channel. You have a new subscriber
We are actually really surprised YT suddenly started to recommend this super old and actually quite badly made video :)
To your question: there were numerous machines cloned - we reviewed many of them on our channel. ES-18xx were considered professional workstation and referred as such in documentation, so technically your guess is right. This however, did not prevent some private users to be licky to get one for very big money. ES-1849 and its successor 1863 were produced even in 1990s but more as an attempt to keep industry alive. From the point of a user experience, 1849 is a pretty good 286, it just works. How reliable it was, is an open question.
As for the software: there are three videos about ES-1841 (hardware, expansion cards, test run) so in the third one with the test run you can see some examples of the adapted software. In many cases though origonal was used if they could get it. In 1991 and after getting foreign software was no longer a problem.
I suppose like all things soviet, they were made for whoever could justify having one to their company's budget.
I owned the version with VGA graphic board. Perhaps it was developed for 1863, but at least it was fully compatible.
1863 card sounds like a very possible scenario and surely it will work. I actually plugged 1849's card to a regular 386 machine as well and they also passed all tests. BTW, this is super old video, therr is a co tinuation with this computer in action - check it out!
We had 10mz 286 clones at the time the Russians were trying to get this pos to work.
This is belarusian pc, russians did not achieve even this..) i am just trying to get why you call it 'pos' if it has original intel cpu, and actually, it works very well - check one more video with its test run we have.
You sure that is soviet? There is a suspicious lack of vacuum tubes.
That is a GOOD comment :)
Transistors entered the chat since the late 70s
This chassis looks very similar to Philips P3230 286 so I wonder if there was some clone-engineering there too
It is hard to say. They loved cloning, but specifically this factory often reworked things very much. This video is very old, but we have many more examples of their products reviewed.
@@ChernobylFamily i will be checking out more of your videos - thank you for the nice content 🙂
Imagine Soviet clone of AMD Ryzen, man that would been awesome
No matter what comes to my imagination, it has two handles to carry marked ЯЩЫ.022.427.94
Polish K-202 from 1970 was faster and cheaper than IBM PC produced 10 years later...
So imagine if Soviets did not killed this project and forced K-202 inventor to literally switching his profesion to a pig farmer, in an interview from that time for local Polish TV he simply said that he prefers to work with this pigs, because this pigs are much nicer than the previous that he was forced to work with...
And yea, K-202 was also 16bit like this crapy quality copy of 286 so many years later.
K-202 was using multiple chips but even with that more complicated in production technology its price was only 1/10 of the western competition...
@@Bialy_1 holy...
@@Bialy_1
Soviet bureaucracy do more harm then good many times when it comes to computers, Soviet also lead the computer race in 1950s, then Khrushchev decided he knew better.
This is why fools should never be in power regardless of economical systems.
It would take them until 2050 to make it .Maybe by now they have pentium 4 clones and working on core 2 duo.
Оце так техніка)
Оба на, раді бачити тут :)
@@ChernobylFamily Я сам зрадів побачити тебе в такій олдовій темі)
Я з покоління Архітекторів... я бачив перфострічки в роботі :))))))
I always think how they made chips ? It is too hard
Can you recommend any book sir , to learn soviet electronics
I advice to take this amazing book which was recently published, "Innovation in Isolation". istpublishing.org/en/innovation-isolation-story-ukrainian-it-1940s-present
They say they ship only within Ukraine, but I believe if you ask very much, they might find a solution.
If the Soviet Union had made to 2000 they might have, gasp, been able to make their 80486😉😁.
Can you dump the character ROMs of the EGA card for preservation? If you can make them available for public use. Thanks
cheating he said cheating!!!🤣🤣
Russians implement x86 archs and opcodes via forms of in circuit emulation, thats why Russian cpus are known to suck compared to their American competitors
Cuz they couldn't afford to buy and couldn't figure out how to fabricate it
Even the russian x86 (most probably still 32bit) cpus now are technically obsolete
Compared to what you get in America
Very right.
Maybe, it was really ES-1845...
No. But we have a CPU card from 1845 running in our 1841.
Котики - это читерство!
Mñau!
Це ISA слоти в ньому такі?
Так, це електронмашевські роз'єми такі.
Amazing machine, a legacy of a lost civilization.
This is a very old video, however, we have a continuation with a test-run.
Soviet Clones = illegally copied IC designs.
Если на Интел, какой он советский,просто собран на территории СССР
Interesting. I guess you had to be pretty high up in the food chain to have one of those in 1988. Western software would be problematic, because instead of ASCII it displays Cyrillic. In 1987 I designed an EGA graphics controller IC, using gate array technology of the day. It used about 10,500 gates. Some people said an EGA only needed 9,000 gates. However smart people were already starting to design VGA controller chips.
Thank you for sharing! As for this very device, although it had a cyrillic subset added instead of some preudographics, you could use a special resident driver to make it work again if needed. Last year we made a video about ES1841, there is an example of that in action. We do not have a native driver for 1849 but it should be.
computers are supposed to be aesthetically pleasing as it ages... this soviet abomination is hard to look at!
Good stuff all
There will be much, much more (although we have very severe limitations due to the war). So you are welcome to subscribe!
A Soviet PC wouldn't have been a bad idea
In Sovjet Russia you got Collective Calculator Computer Parts
0:58: what am I supposed to do with this stuff?
This video is prehistoric :)) he not only used to this mouse but we gave him one (we had many of those) so he loved to play with it. BTW, check a somewhat newer video on out channel where this machine is running.
what kind of question is that? dont you see we can use that to construct a home made S400 guided missile defence system?
Super!
Thank you! Cheers!
When le soviet engineer used 99.9999999% of their true power
:)))))
Nice !
Check the video in the pinned comment - this machine in action
Who had access to this?
Excuse me?
Edit: you mean who could have it? Intended for enterprises, BUT in early 90s could be purchased by privates. Though at that moment better westen machines appeared on market.
Liked and commenting so your cat can have treats too.
Puuurrrrfect!
Very nice i like it
Thank you so much 😊but please note, it is a VERY old video, we have many more and much better!
An ENIAC circuit
Ray rust electronics.
це не сама рідкісна машина. ще екзотичніша 1851 - 386sx процесор. якщо не дурить мене альцгеймер, то ще было щось накшталт 1853. але останнього екземпляра не бачив, і лише маю смутні спогади про якісь чутки. наймасовішими були 1840, 1841 - відбірне лайно як за якістю, так і за характеристиками. у всієї цієї техніки була лише одна позитивна риса - зашкаліний вміст дорогоцінних металів та кольорового лому.
Ну, по-перше це страшенно старе відео, зараз-то деякі речі вже сказали б по-іншому :) думаю, ви маєте не увазі 1863.
Але ще рідкіснішими були ххх5 для військового використання.
Щодо 1841, у нас є одна (див. інші відео). В принципі, коли ми її перебрали, відчуття від неї достатньо позитивне, якщо порівнювати з іншими "розробками".
@@ChernobylFamily позитив миттєво спливає у каналізацію, коли оте радянське лайно не колекціонуєш, а намагаєшся працювати на ньому або обслуговувати. це просто неповторне лайно - характеристики як у калькулятора, а ламалося воно не рідше разу в місяць. а ремонтувати не дозволялося, бо єксперімінтальниє аналоговнєтниє плати багатошарові чипати було просто страшно, щоб воно не разпливлося на туалетний папір. і весь ремонт закінчувався заміною дохлих модулів на працюючі, а дохлі слали на завод. а які вінчестери були на цьму лайні.... аж 20 мегабайт... і пам"ятали вони аж по півроку, потім склерозом било і треба було робити формат (іноді навіть низького рівня).... а одного разу я того вінчестера магнітом "форматував", бо каструля на 20 літрів не хотіла форматуватися більш ніж на 10.... незабутні відчуття від спілкування з тим анлоговнєтом залишилися на все життя. дотого ж у той самий час на заході вже буйно квітли айтішки, потім екстішки, 286, 386, 486.... а совки ліпили з лайна та гілок оті мамонти.... аж поки сам совок не здох....
@geistgefallene1116 з цієї сторони ви абсолютно праві і повністю погоджуюся. Дуже ненадійне залізо. Особливо про 8-шарові плати, які просто пропаяти неможливо.
@@ChernobylFamily саме так. з тодішніми інструментами зробити щось з тим аналоговнєтом було неможливо. та й металізація отворів була просто неймовірно "якісною" - савєцкою. кокую срану пратерялі. ))))) нехай щастить ))))
WATCH THIS COMPUTER IN ACTION:th-cam.com/video/QpYPNV2A6eM/w-d-xo.html
КЛАСС!!! Я впервые вижу советские ЕСки со смешанным набором микросхем, а видюха - вообще просто МЕГА устройство!
Can it run Linux ? Or windows ?
It is 8086-based, so it can run windows 1.0. As for linux, there is ELKS kernel, that seems is only option. But we did not test.
naaaah we can try to use android on that!
So I'm confused, the soviets couldn't clone the 286, so what is in this machine?
A mix of what they could get.
@@ChernobylFamily which is what? A 286 made in the West? An 8086 ?
Western 286 and chipset, the rest is ex-soviet. It is visible by marking on the chips.
you see what happens when you relie on cloning for your economy to survive 🤣🤣🤣
Quite true.
China is thriving from that today!
Can it runs crysis ? 😄🤘
We're afraid, only once :)
@@ChernobylFamily сгорит?
It may cause crysis...
we can link it up to a chinese made air compressor and build a time travel machine!
@@fidelcatsro6948 per haps
These chips aren’t really defined by onboard architecture. It’s possible to clone almost any chip if you’re willing to go to a larger size and slower speed. So nothing ever stopped Russia from producing a 386 or a 486 clone.
But of course patents and copyrights would have been a different problem. Russia is part of the global I.P. network, so if they got into a patent dispute, then nobody would buy their totally unneeded crude oil. It’s easier to sell oil than to operate a factory.
Russia, Saudi Arabia, and Nigeria get paid for doing nothing. At the same time, carbon emissions continue to increase because alcohol and hydrogen aren’t politically correct. The government insists that computerized electric cars are the only solution. But that electricity will still come from fossil fuel: coal and oil that emit carbon. So the government, in a ridiculous attempt to steal even more money, says that fossil fuel will continue and then there will be a new tax to remove the carbon.
With communists, there reaches a point of insanity from which there is no return.
Russia was not producing that, Belarus did, and after collapse of the USSR continued. In fact, what stopped is the grade of the technological process used in 286 and above. They could not replicate that.
Parece um computador Ocidental
Yes, likely inspired by.
@@ChernobylFamily obrigado pela resposta
Yeah, but will it play Doom?
Easily.
А де зеленіі конденсатори КМ
Там червоні КМ
@@ChernobylFamily скільки тих компів 286-386 поиск, іскра, ми розкурочили в голодні нульові роки заради КМ. Ну це і не дивно, кілограм зелених у Києві коштував 800 дол. А тепер цілого справного і не знайти.
Свята правда
А разве был аналог 286 ? Небыло же вроди
Про що ми і розказуємо.
Имел ввиду не компьютер, а именно процессор. 8086 анолог подделали, а вот 286 не смогли. вроди
@hryapacow420 саме так. Про клон процесора всі пишуть, але його ніхто не бачив.
@@hryapacow420 это коммерческий ПК. В СССР (и после развала) в домашние/коммерческие ПК ставили комплектующие по остаточному принципу.
@@hryapacow420 В первую очередь БИС и СБИС своего производства уходили военным и в науку, затем на предприятия и образование. То что оставалось шло в коммерческие ПК. Доукомплектовывали их тем что было в наличии.
Difficult to understand
That happens..!
select the CC captions and read in Russian
They have nothing that isn't either the result of espionage or direct theft like the Zeiss factory or Von Braun's V2 rockets. Do you have a Russian processor in you current computer? No because they can't hack stuff like that.
In the majority of cases you are right. Although there were good original ideas, which were suffocated by the state system. As for russian processors, well, we are not from Russia but from what we know they are still well behind.
This video is completely misleading... Before implementing own 80286, the Soviets made К1810ВМ86М and co-processor for it which effectively enabled protected mode and made it possible to run 80286 code and support up to 2MB or RAM.
You comment is completely misleading... Making that mode of operation in ES1842 is not equal to have the 286 crystal. Though the concept used was interesting.
@@ChernobylFamily I did not say it was equal. It was slower than having original 80286.
@@sovietcitizen9450of course it was; though that pretty unique approach of emulation is indeed interesting.
😂
Check that machnine in action (actually, it has a beautiful BIOS interface) - there is one more video.
Не українською.
Наш канал орієнтований на англомовну аудиторію. В більшості відео вже є субтитри.
Any ( not computers only) thing, work or service do the soviets was useless, big question why ? Because they do experiments like as a college students, nothing to do with practical use day by day, as like your wife cookin' 😂, everytime is a kitchen disaster, no ones wants to try ( even) taste for the sake of courtesy 😂😂😂😂😂
Don't offend my wife's cooking, as she does it damn good.
To be historical accurate (NOT defending Soviets - we ate enough sh*t from them here in Ukraine), there were sometimes good ideas and talented engineers, who wanted good products. But all that was suppressed by communist regime, ending up with the approach and crap you are talking about. Except double-purpose applications.
-Russian- Ukrainian cat spotted @ 0:57seconds
That was offensive. He was born and lives in Ukraine, same as me.
@@ChernobylFamily oops sorry amigo!
This is better :)))
USSR could not clone 80386 because the had not the technology - how to grow clean artificial silicon. A natural silicon is not clean enough to make quite small transistors.
Cyrillics replacing the pseudographics is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_code_page_(Russian)
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