It is not a COMPUTER, it is a DISASTER. Robotron SM1910, made in DDR in 1988
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- Greetings from Ukraine!
Today we have a teardown of a Robotron CM1910 (also known as A7150) made in DDR in 1988. Well, it has multiple advanced features compared to an average PC of that time, but its hardware design is very complex and in some cases pretty weird.
Giving you a little spoiler about what you are going to see next, every removed part gave us more and more surprises and discoveries.
Our Patreon: / thechernobylfamily
Our merch: chernobylfamily.creator-sprin...
Contents of this episode:
00:00 - Intro
00:11 - Michaela is back
00:29 - VEB ROBOTRON computers
01:24 - Well, we got a Robotron CM1910
01:52 - Offers for our fans
02:09 - Overview of our hero
03:32 - Let’s look inside
04:20 - Keyboard restoration
04:57 - Let’s disconnect and take our circuit boards
05:12 - Graphic card
06:12 - KGS (Controller of the graphic subsystem)
06:59 - Removing a ribbon cable
07:29 - KES (Controller of the external storage)
07:40 - ZRE (CPU board)
08:35 - A bit strange RAM
09:10 - ASP (Controller of serial and parallel interfaces)
09:24 - Crate
09:45 - Fun with fans
11:00 - A dramatic attempt to get the power supplies
12:36 - Removing the drives
13:54 - THIS is what we found below
14:27 - Surprise controllers
15:15 - AAAAAAAAA
15:35 - Outro - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![[Full Episode] MasterChef Junior Thailand มาสเตอร์เชฟ จูเนียร์ ประเทศไทย Season 3 Episode 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qs5zdBqLn_8/mqdefault.jpg)
Fun fact: Similar DRAM from the same DDR manufacturer ended up in many Amiga 500 trapdoor RAM expansions, including my own back in the day. So for a short time, the DDR seemed to have a somewhat competitive semidonductor industry.
Thank you for the story!
DRAM is relatively easy to make and often some generations behind in terms of manufacturing process compared to the most modern CPUs for example, so it would make sense that, if somewhat competetive, it indeed would be in this area :)
I wonder if those DRAMs were part of the DDR's program to capture that industry as described in this video. th-cam.com/video/cxrkC-pMH_s/w-d-xo.html
Ha. Yeah. No. Absolutely not ever competitive.
Many people don't realize that a lot of GDR products were sold to the west. Clothes, furniture, housewares, transistors etc. Reason was the GDR regime needed foreign currency badly. Most of these products were renamed or got a different label and it wasn't visible that they were produced in East Germany.
It's like they tried to make a fully modular computer where all of the boards could be swapped from outside but failed catastrophically. The additional "outside to inside" ribbon cabes and cards hidden inside feel totally like an afterthought / duct tape fix to finish what they started. Also, you should put some stickers over those EPROM windows!
Yes, covered them already. Thank you :)
@@ChernobylFamily Hopefully they are not already erased itself. Their halflife is over multiple times (even with a sticker). Good luck.
@@myragion The EPROM chips in @Usagi Electric's even older Centurion minicomputer were fine. He copied their contents promptly after disassembly, in case they failed later.
Around 1998, I got a Robotron computer just by walking the street. It was throwed away, prepared to be sent to a scrapyard with another equipment. It was from a research institute that closed at that site and it was obsolete.
Quite a beast with a I8080 CPU, 128kB of RAM, two 5.25" floppies, provision for a HDD in a separate enclosure with another two floppies (that I did not get, thinking that it was another identic computer), it was a beast. It had 5 or 6 boards inside on a backplane like motherboard with two edge connectors (not sure what standard it was). It was big, heavy but surprisingly modern looking (at first look I thought that it is an old XT clone). Sadly it did not worked, maybe some of the EPROM chips inside were missing. I used its guts (RAM, EPROMs, TTL ICs, IC sockets), to make a Z80 computer.
Wow! Thanks for such an amazing story!
After all the blackouts, this video is a small miracle. Well done to both of you!
So good to see the new video notification. 😊
Thank you! Well, that was tough, but we did it :)
Looks like a VME backplane used in instrumentation. It's a very good choice if you're low on gold and need a large surface contact area to compensate.
So sorry and shocked to hear you were so unwell but mighty, mighty glad to hear and see that you are much better! God bless you both and a very happy Christmas! Now back to the video...
Thank you so much! Still need to do much, but I will be good!
If anything at all, this computer resembles a 1970s S100 based computer more than it does a PC. Huge boards filled with rows of logic chips, tightly squeezed onto a backpane, connectors and cables to the power supply, front panels and other components that got squeezed in over time. Somebody must have been trying hard to take old and proven methods to the next level.
And yes, 56800 Mark was a high price. Calculating a precise value in today's money would be hard, but it certainly was well beyond anything a private person could easily afford. Or even get their hands on, even if they had the money.
Thank you for sharing!
It looks like someone started making S-100 bus card cage, some cards for a system then sometime later discovered they had to make something else entirely yet being forced to use whatever was already produced. So they just kept bolting things onto it 😅
What is interesting, despite its design and price, this computer was pretty popular.
The Robotron A7150 (how we call them in germany) is one of my favourite robotron machines :) have one and also two A7100.
The A7100 predecessor even cant run DOS and is more designed as an 16bit SCP (CP/M) machine, but there exist an "BIOS" emulator you can boot from and can boot dos and run some simple dos programs! i have MUTOS (aka robotrons UNIX) installed on my machine :)
the cable are coming from back into inside because on the configuration (textonly or extended graphics) you must connect the keyboard to the processor card or KGS, also think more convient to connect the devices on the side instead back
compatible displays for the ABG are k7229.25 K7228.2 K7234
SUPER thanks for these details! This makes it a lot more clear!
From the sounds of it, the A7100 reminds me of the 80186 processor, which was used on the first Siemens PC-D and can't run most MS-DOS programmes without modification, even though it did run DOS 2.11 and 3.20. But it was only somewhat IBM PC compatible.
Ooooh, MUTOS!! I could only find 1 video here on YT about that OS. Perhaps you'd like to make one?
@@mojoblues66 im not good with videocreate and editing :( but there exist an a7100 emulator but sadly mutos dont boot.
@@mojoblues66 accidentally i pick up today an another full working CM1910, i may install MUTOS on it and can film :)
12:00 When dismantling electronics ALWAYS ask your cat for advice!
Hahaha
The hand-made patches on the boards looks like bug fixing after production. When prototyping a board, one typically make some error and it can be faster to patch it with wire rather than order corrected boards. It's labor intensive and error prone. Sounds like once the production PCBs were ordered, that was it, no more PCB order, gotta patch all the run by hand.
Yes, we faced that with ES1841 - check the Ep.2 on our channel
It was like that in those times. Fixing the errors and rebuilding the cards would have mean the others would be scrap. But if each card is around several thousand Marks (or dollars if you like) it would be cheaper to add some wires. This was my job back then, I have made many of those refacturings. And I do not talk about prototypes, but the PCBs were already made.
The service technicians who worked on these machines back in the day must have had a lot of patience to deal with this... interesting approach to engineering!
Yes, it is really... insa... interesting.
"it's a nice design, but you don't have any brackets. you need brackets"
"ok I'll just add them now"
"they're in the way of the internal extra connectors now"
"it's ok just redesign, the cards to have the connectors external"
"but they go inside the machine!"
"well f you should've thought about that when you designed the bus"
Hahaha this is awesome. Looks like that way it was.
It is nice to watch it. My father-in-law was working in ERA Warsaw. And was installing SM and Mera in USSR in 80s. I love his stories but he do not remember technical detals any more. And i love bare metal computers :)
Thank you!
Wow! That thing is a complete brute! Especially the hard drive. Imagine that thing falling on your foot. Lots of utterly bizarre puzzles in there. I think my favourite part is the appearance of the hacksaw. Thanks folks, I really enjoyed that.
You are more than welcome...) well, that all was really a nightmare to dismantle..)
This is similar to "standard backplane" computers before the PC era. There are many backplane schemes and standards, none of which were compatible with each other. The slide in boards had standard connections for the type of backplane, but if there was IO needed that wasn't part of the backplane standard, then you had ribbon cables running all over the place, sometimes outside of the back of the box. Industrial controllers were often like this. This computer was cobbled together out of such a standard, and all the rest of it were afterthoughts and tack-on features not part of the backplane chosen.
Thank you for these details!
Thank you for this! It was fascinating.
Your command of English vocabulary is wonderful. So many flowery expressions! So much humour in your descriptions!
Haha
Thank you! But please check our newer episodes - after all, this is a very old video.
That must be one of the most overengineered computer system around. Construction screams of industrial system, I have only seen similar construction in rack units for old industrial robotics and automation controllers. I think that maybe this system started it's life as a one, that would explain why the internal cables are connected outside, and why some of the connectors are blocked behind the card brackets.
There came people who explained that this wiring was caused by a possibility of two different configurations - graphic that we have, or a text-only. However, this does not make it less crude
The exposed wires, blobs of solder, wires tied together with string, and high-voltage terminal strips had me laughing pretty hard. I wonder how many house fires these started back in the day.
Supposedly, at least a few :)
Robotron computers have always interested me. But what a nightmare!! I no longer want to find one, I've been scared away forever.
Look for 1715. We are going to have a video with it as well!
At the start I thought it was strange that the girls were moving those other computers on carts. But if it's made anything like this computer, I can understand why, because they would break their backs trying to carry them by hand!
As for this computer, it seems much more complicated than it probably needs to be. It's like every part was designed by a different team, and they decided all to put the different modules in its own enclosure or case made of metal. Then they brought all the parts together and bolted them into the case with more metal, and just kept adding wires and cables until it worked.
Anyway, I hope you don't hurt your back carrying this computer after you reassemble it.
That picture is one of the first of May festivals, where robotron staff participated... a bit strange side of socialism. Needless to say yes, damaged my back already :)
Conjecture: I'd imagine those card connectors into the backplane riser are electronically compatible with the ISA bus, but using easier to obtain connectors. Single connector for 8-bit cards, dual connector for 16-bit cards.
The connector to nowhere on the RAM boards was probably a debug port used to check the memory during assembly and diagnose faults in the field (you would remove the metal plate to access it).
Interesting video. I like your content and presentation style 🙂.
Thank you! The bus there is Multibus, as for hidden connectors in the comments was an opinion that these boards could be used elsewhere where they could be, let's call it like this, stacked to form bigger banks.
Nope, The left connector is compatible to Intel Mulibus, the right ones are Z80 subsystem Buses only partially connected.
Morning folks. They built them really well back then. I knew a pc case manufurer back in the day, here in Scotland before they all left. He showed me an early prototype he kept. It was really a pressed-metal boxed. I've never seen any old computer with all the boards fully populated like that. It must have been been quite a bit of expensive kit back in the day. I'm going to do a conversion. It would be bought today $227086 at today prices. It is a proper workstation prices. mid-range server prices. You could retrobright the front panel and key and keyboard to bring it back up. Easy to do. Wonder what it was used for. Great to see these.
:)
Just noticed your edit - thank you for an amazing story. Money conversion is impressive. Well, they were used as business machines generally.
Germans do have a saying: "Why make things simple when you can make them so wonderfully complicated!"
Such a nice saying
Hi, I'm from Dresden / Germany where Robotron was located. The cables at the back are only connecting the front connectors for the keyboard and tablet if I remember right.
Thank you for these details! You are warmly welcome here :)
@@ChernobylFamily I have some of them in my cellar (7100, 7150, 1910, 1715, KC87, Z9001) but did not switch them on for years. The problem is that the high voltage caps in the power supply need to be reformed before powering on.
@@stephanbrenner3317 here is the same problem, need to recap all of them
@@ChernobylFamily normally it is sufficient to disconnect them and slowly increase a DC voltage across them. After some hours they become better. But please remember to never switch on the power supplies without a load. These are not able to operate open loop. Use a car bulb as load or something like this
Yes, thank you for the advice! Had the same situation with ES1841 power supplies.
I honestly don't have anything intelligent to say here, but i just want to tank You again for all the hard work and dedication You guys are putting into this and decide to share like this!
This was a usually super interesting to watch!
I really by my heart hope she get well and back in normal life for Christmas!
Thank you for such words... well, trying all best in current circumstances. Michaela sends greetings...)
It would be interesting to see some high resolution still photographs of the PCBs, front and back.
Will make at some point
I was raised in West Germany before 1990, but that DDR technology does peak my interest. It could run DCP1700, which is a DDR-clone of MS-DOS 3, or something like SCP1700 which is a CP/M 86 clone. I would've liked to try SCP on PCem even if that only simulates western x86 devices. And fun fact: The POST is called ACT (A7150 Confidence Test). That computer is certainly overengineered considering the proprietary nature and the fact that the IT industry did not get the same support as other branches of the economy.
Thank you for this insight!
Oh I miss my AC7150 (CM1910) - my first computer. What a wonderful computer. Granted: an overpowering design for an 8086, but it was endearing. (I'm just wiping a tear away)... If this thing weren't so overweight, incredibly difficult to debug, and impossible to keep alive with compatible components, I would have kept it. So I donated it to the "Technical Collections Dresden" - including the 1MB RAM and the VGA color monitor (adapted). May he feel saluted if he goes online one day. 😀
Thank you for sharing your memories!
Reminds me of the construction inside an old microvax II or PDP/11. They don't build 'em like they used to. Probably apocryphal but I heard a story once that the chassis for the microvax II was strong enough to withstand someone dancing on it at the office Christmas party.
Wow! Thank you for the story
I had the same thought. Looks like they used boards for a microvax enclosure type machine and crammed them in a desktop box.
This Robotron looks like it might be VME bus, a 64 bit bus architecture popular for higher end workstations and industrial computers in the mid 1990s. I owned a VME bus Sun-3/160 workstation with 1.5 KW power supply. It weighed about 300 pounds.
Many commenters suggested the same. I trust you guys!
It's actually Multibus- also known as IEEE 796- a 16-bit bus designed for use in industrial equipment.
@@douro20 Thank you for the correction. It has been too long since I worked with that in the early 1980s. I should have recognized it.
Last time I saw that was on some Early 80s test equipment I worked on - one rack mount module was not actually removeable because the frame wiring loom went through it top to bottom. I guess it was from a time where people weren't that bothered about labour costs. It was just easier and quicker to modify and add to the existing design rather than taking a step back and redesigning. If you have ever read any Terry Pratchett - just like the swing Death made for his granddaughter.
You will get loads of opinions on why that memory board has the additional connector - my two'pen'orth: Possiby anexpansion to allow a second board to widen the bit width - so combine two 8 bit boards to give 16 bit width, or maybe to add on parity checking or error correction. The other though I had was to give an independant DMA channel separate from the main bus
Thank you for the story! Well, your thoughts on RAM sound like a possible reason why they did that.
Awesome video. Hope you can restore it.
Thank you! We will try
I'm happy to hear your alright.
With everything going on, I'm glad you can still make videos.
That computer is a strange, borderline comical machine, with it's mixture of chips from the soviet union, Siemens and Intel.
A nice detail is the "warranty void if seal is broken" sticker on the HDD.
It looks like several people with no plan worked on that thing, or the plans were changed every day, while nobody had some sort of oversight.
But other early computers from the west didn't look that much better.
We will soon a little optimize our environment abd will be able to return to normal production schedule to have a video every week. Right now 75% time it takes to just keep warm at home, assuming my wife is not very healthy, this is important.
Well, yes, this machine is something. I regret I did not record assembling it back, that was even a bigger nightmare.
Borderline comical sums it up pretty nicely. It's trying sooo hard not to look like a PC compatible/clone that it takes some really questionable choices, when the unique features could be easily adapted to ISA instead of that unique backplane filled up all the way for a standard system. Luckily they gave up on that when the EC1834 proved to be popular.
@@1337Shockwav3 I worked with West German radio astronomers in that era and they LOVE their VME bus. LOVE it. When I saw the backplane I just assumed that all Germans lust after VME architecture. I can only imagine that to this day German children dream of the proper order and clean layout of the the VME bus.
@@AndrewTubbiolo German & Swiss packaging machinery manufacturers also seem to be in love with their VME bus control systems. On one project I managed in the '90s the end customer required Allen-Bradley PLC-5 controllers in all machines. So the German supplier of a wrapping machine used their usual VME controler and stuck a VME PLC-5 in a spare slot (doing nothing). That was the only time in 20 years I saw a VME PLC-5 other than in catalogs. Probably the only one ever sold.
Amazing video as always! So happy to know two are well and everything's good now! This is quite a kit, even for 88'. Built like a tank, but considering how it's laid down, I bet the internal architecture is complex and weird, nothing like a PC. Would be nice to know that in the next video, can't wait for it!
Thank you! Trying our best to have a new video every Saturday!
Were those Western ICs like the CPUs obtained by bypassing export restrictions to the DDR? The hard drive has a warranty warning seal in English, so the same question about it. The large numbers of PCBs is probably due to the need to use large numbers of lower integration ICs instead of the custom ICs which combined many ICs into one as was done in the West. What were machines like this mostly used for?
If i remember the old embargo correctly the GDR was banned from importing what it couldn't produce itself. So yeah, stories have it that they build a DRAM fab just to show that they could do it and import the cheaper western parts afterwards.
The CPU could be from a similar way, they showed that they could make 16 Bit CPUs so the embargo was lifted on them.
These machines were intended for enterpsise-level business use. As for chips, here people from Germany will advice better. I noticed that CPU was made by Siemens (West Germany if i recall correctly), but by intel license. In fact there is insane mix of chips. Germany, USSR, Czechoslovakia, Singapore and even Portugal.
@@ChernobylFamily I thought they have made a technology exchange program. The GDR get some hot stuff and in exchange they deliver what they had to west germany. There is one thing left of those times until today. A big car manufacturer uses the machine built in GDR even now in this moment to form the metal.. It was (or is) a speciality of GDR engineering.
В начале 90 тых работал на "робтроне", в носил данные по содержанию драг металлов из бумажной литературы. Да да да с падением СССР вся прогрессивная общественность кинулась в пучину аффинажа. В последствии у меня был "робтрон", но он к сожалению не дожил.
Thank you for the story!
Hope you make a full recovery. Fascinating to see this piece of history.
I will, still need to do much for this, but it will be good.
I will, still need to do much for this, but it will be all good.
Glad we have the ATX standard (and back then the AT), everything is so simple now.
Well, until it became ATX there were hell many variations... so well, yes, agree
@@ChernobylFamily AT, Baby AT, ATX, WTX, etc...they're all somewhat compatible and follow the same principles. I can make a 2022 system in a 1995 ATX case without issues.
The conectors remind me of VME instrumentation systems. I have been involved with such a system until 4 months ago. If it is, they use a passive backplane with just a few resistors on. The processor will be on one of the boards
Thank you for these details!
I discovered your channel today and I have already watched many videos, I am loving learning more about the unknown world of Soviet computing. Greetings from Spain dear friend 😊
Thank you so much for motivating words!
I can only imagine the frustration here! I've worked on a few machines that were very compact, filled with boards and hard to work on... but I don't think anything ever was as bad as that machine!
We feel for you!
back in those days the computer nerds must have looked like professional weight lifters :D
@12:04 - calling in the engineer for help!
VERY well done with the dramatic/comedic effect - I was literally LOLing.
Also, those expansion card connectors look just like the card connectors in the Siemens PLC we have at work. Guessing that connector was popular on both sides of the German iron curtain.
@14:15 - wow, that terminal block is straight out of an industrial control panel, like the one our Siemens PLC is mounted in. And the soldered wires...
@5:34, those wires soldered onto the circuit board, are called "bodge wires" by US retro-computing enthusiasts. Also, what you call "crate", I think we would call the "chassis".
And finally, I am so glad Michaela is doing well. May you both (and feline engineer!) stay safe and healthy.
Yes, that was fun to do :)
Interesting...
Thank you!
As far as I know 1910 display was progressive scan. So it's actually around 640x240. It may have similar non-interlaced timings 12.312 640 662 719 784 240 244 247 262
Thank you, this will be useful
@@ChernobylFamily It was long ago. So I could miss something
I have connected my CM1910 by a quite simple adapter to a (kind of) modern flat screen. The adapter only have to split the mixed hsync+vsync signals into separate for VGA.
Your channel sure is unique.
Thank you so much!
Nice work, guys! Looking forward to the next one!
Thank you!
I’d imagine that extra ram connector is to just allow the part to connect to either side of the bus. Manufacture it with connectors on both ends and it’ll work in whatever configuration is needed, just move the bracket.
Sounds as a possible reason. Thanks!
The Robotron SM1910 such a mysterious beast. Obviously badly built. Insanely built. Horribly built. But anyway a real curiosity. Who put this together? What were the tortured conditions that created it?
A result of a glorious collective regime of peace and love.
Very, very interesting construction inside the computer.
very nice informative video, keep up the good work!
perhaps the hidden connector on the RAM boards are for some kind of diagnostic machine? or mabye they are from an older computer, and they re-used them
Thank you! Well, check other episodes too :) These connectors likely were for diagnostics, as you pointed.
Watching this gave me even more appreciation for modern computer case designs! If I had something like this come in at my old job I’d’ve been telling the owner to buy a new case!
...if, of course, you deal not with a proprietary design that will give you no alternative
@@ChernobylFamily I know what a headache! When I saw those bare wires I physically flinched, I’ve been on the end of a few exploding power supplies so bare wires anywhere scare me to death.
Redundant power supplies, and remote operation via modem. This looks more like a server than a personal computer. I'm glad that Michaela is back.
From what we found, it was a business-purpose PC. However, we believe actual Robotron users may correct.
Michaela sends greetings :)
Nope, on power supply +5V, one +-12V, one +12V Standby. Because of the standby supply this machine can be switched on and off from remote. It also can switch itself off by software.
FWIW, a Trabant (car) in this time cost about 12000 to 13000 Mark. So one of these computers cost more than four cars.
Yeah.. same as the streamer featured in our recent episodes - costed 1.5x of a cheapest car.
Funny fact is that this price was for NEW cars. If you buy a used one you had to pay much MORE. Just for the fact you have to wait up to 20 YEARS for the new one, but get the used one immediately.
The main boards look like they are VME bus. This bus style is typically used in industrial equipment. It was a very odd design choice to use it in a desktop form factor. I have to wonder if they used it because it was easier to obtain VME cards as opposed to more conventional consumer grade cards.
If I recall correct, there were more robotron computers that used these.
They called this bus system "MMS 16", it was a clone of the "intel multibus I". This system seems build with compatibility to this intel systems in mind. The KES board (storage subsystem) is made to be software compatible to the intel iSBC215/iSBX218. Too bad the intel multibus was a failure also in the western world. They have set there bet on the wrong horse. I have read an interview with the leading managers of this industry in that time. He said, the made real good money with this machines, just because of the mad RGW pricing procedures.
Hahaha, oh dear, oh dear! I remember how computers used to deep cut technicians back there in the 90s - what if 80s! I love your videos, guys! Keep it up!
Thank you! Check the new episodes too:)
Such a machine! Definitely one for sado-masochists :) A fascinating and somewhat crazy machine - I look forward to seeing more of it. Glad to see Michaela back and also that you were able to make a video in the current circumstances.
Well, just dismantling this was something, so we totally agree. Michaela sends thanks :)
Лет 30-35 назад, такой компьютер был за счастье!
About 30-35 years ago, such a computer was for happiness!
True.
Definitely! One of the very few machines I've turned down for a repair, because the system just screams "I'm a nightmare to service!".
56000 EAst MArk --> that was after the joining of east and west 28.000 D-Mark, which translates to 14.000€ before Inflation and ~30.000€ after Inflation.
If I'd have to guess, that connector on the ram-board is for analysis after assembly of the board.
JESUS.
I've got this really fanciful idea wherein there were two entire full fucking alphabets that had to be reproduced on these screens and nobody had any idea how to write a consolidated ROM that would conform to requirements for both without some extra RAM and ROM. Wow.
Also, cannot ever remove just a few of the screws. Must remove all screws. Learned this lesson a long a long time ago. Put back together and you eventually have two. This is the magic of engineering.
Through some research and Calculation the computer would have cost $245,228 USD in today's value, was worth just under $100K in 1988 when it was made, a very expensive computer.
Holy...
Usually electronics from the GDR are built so that they can be fixed easily. At least that's the case for devices meant for the general public.This computer seems to have been built by engineers for engineers as just the disassembly to get to a broken part is a challenge. Also testing must be quite difficult as you have to put it almost fully back together first.
Agree. I dealt with a lot of DDR-made tech, which was awesome inside, and discovering this very machine was a shock.
I’m guessing DDM56.88 was what the Soviets paid for it. Not what a private individual might pay.
DDM56.88 was worth around £17.80 in 1988 and around $30.
£17.80 is a little over £100 today. About $30 back then and $120 today.
I’m guessing that the DDR cost of living was such that this was beyond what most people could afford and DDR were absorbing most of the cost due to war reparations to the USSR.
Just to help you along, the usual English language term is SOLDER or SOLDERING rather than welding (I know this is used by Chinese translations as well). Welding is for building steel bridges and repairing cars.
You also use the term crate, I understood what you meant after a short time, but the more usual term is CARD CAGE for the place where the PCBs are. They might also be called CARDS, as in "This is the IO card." The whole thing, that holds the card cage, drives, power supply, etc is called the CHASSIS.
Many thanks for this!
Regarding that RAM board. It seems the board can be installed with either of the connectors facing to the inside. If I were to venture a guess, the same board is used to support two different computer designs with different bus configurations. If I recall right (it's only been over 3 decades), before getting their hands on western CPUs, Robotron also featured Russian CPUs. Maybe the alternate orientation supports the bus from those things.
Thank you for these details!
The manual of the RAM board says "Steckverbinder X3 - griffseitig als Prüfstecker" - "Connector X3 - on the handle side as a test plug". This boards are so dense populated because they also included parity and refresh.
@@stefanberndt3076 Great. Thanks. I'm surprised they'd use a second bus to test it, but everything is overengineered about that computer, so why not that, too.
@@akiko009 Not really a "bus" to test. Just some important points to test circuits. The more surprising is, that they wasted an expensive connector just for that. Today needle-like probes are used to connect to solder joints for measuring.
Cheers to recovery and good health :)
Thank you so much!
1988, IIRC, my father made around 1000 Mark / month as an engineer in DDR, so 56k would seem a bit expensive indeed ;)
I can imagine. Calculated that and was, uhm, impressed.
Love the lab coats!
Thank you :)
Considering that the exchange rate was 1 Deutschmark to 5 Ostmark by around the time that thing got produced. Using an inflation calculator interestingly that thing used to have the equivalent value of 10k Euro.
Thank you very much!
I am a bit bewildered by the 13:37 "WARRANTY VOID IF SEAL BROKEN" stickers. Did these computers and components really have a warranty? How did the warranty work in the USSR? The stickers look like the same kind found in computers in America and they are written in English.
Here it is important to keep in mind it is from DDR, they had their own stuff, we, frankly, do not know how exactly it worked. As for the USSR, somewhat it was similar to normal warranty procedure. Normally there was a warranty card (1...3 pcs) in a form of a page for cutting those out, inside so-called equipment passport (a document provided along with user manual, it contained base specifications, quality assurance seals and details of manufacturer) OR inside a logbook (serious professional equipment could have also this separate document where all changes, malfunctions, etc. could be logged). You would need to ship a faulty equipment either to manufacturer or to authorised service centre along with this passport and/or logbook, they make repair, cut out one of those cards and make a log entry of changes in a special table in one of those documents. There was a list what could be repaired for a free of charge, and what on extra charge. So a bit more paperwork was involved.
We need a 1960's computer to look like a modern PC, can we do it.
Introducing the Robotron SM1910
And now imagine it in a style of Apple presentation.
This vid gives me flashbacks of a Xerox 6060 thing someone gave me saying "Maybe you can fix it", and it just wasn't worth fixing after suffering a lighting strike, lol. In hindsight and Google today I guess it was a rebranded Olivetti M24, I really did like the 45-degree angled vents around the lower sides of the case. it was just as complex to get it all apart as in the bottom compartment was a "carbon-residue" connected to another charcoal board up one side of the case, and then off that was another chard PCB on the bottom of the upper compartment that had the metal remains of slot connectors for ad-in cards. every single compartment had at least one screw that was fused in place from arching, I fussed with trying to fix then figure out how to cram a 286 into the case for a year then tossed it out as it just wasn't fixable and taking up room. if it wasn't a lighting strike victim I probably would have tried to keep it, yet things happen. I guess computers have been hit and miss for eons, not just the latest fad of tempered glass convection oven styles, lol.
Thank you for sharing!
One can discuss whether this is an SM or CM machine. The joke is: As the "C" could be read in latin or cyrillic, it was sold under both names in different markets, they did not have to change the printed name...
True
When I was disassembling the SM-machine rack it was the same you are trying to remove the power suuply from this computer, so I understand you 😆
Ssssuuuuuuqqqqqqaaaaa
Thanks a lot for the nice content, I really like your dedication and the (sometimes beautifully strange) humor. Regarding the price of this East German IT-monster, 56.000 DDR Mark equal roughly three new Wartburg (a middle class car of the time).
Thank you!
Oh my... that is much. However, remembering the prices for computers in very early 90's Ukraine and previously in the ussr, can't say it was any different.
A 40 m² flat was about 500 Mark per year. So you could either pay your rent for 100 years, or buy this computer. :D
Funny how one Japanese memory plant produced more 256k ram chips than the entire DDR's output of same
Wow, these thick blue power wires...they've been probably stolen from power plant. If YOu even imagine how much metal was used for the whole computer. It's been made like for nuclear apocalypse.
P.S. Michaelo, jsem rád že už jsi zase v pořádku. Držím Vám pěsti.
Well, so true! I recall a guy who came here and told that ES1841 (one of previous machines we reviewed) is UI/UX nightmare. Well, he did not see THIS haha.
P.S. Ďakujem - je to trochu komplikované, do úplného zdravia ešte ďaleko, ale už môžem pomáhať s novými zaujímavými videami
Ah yes the Robotron ! Loved that company
As for me as Ukrainian speaker, than name gave me reference to robots :)
@@ChernobylFamily YES it's a really interesting story how the name came about
Someone must've been tasked to create jobs for the glorious industry... Anything that comes close with the western computers (that I know of) is Tandon Target AT from 1987. It had plastic faceplates on both front and back of the machine, and you started the disassembly on the back, it had five screws holding it in place. After removing the back plate the plastic side panels had to be slid out, they had locking teeth and they were really difficult to handle; they were snugly against the chassis so you didn't get a good hold on them. Once they were out, the computer was sectioned into three compartments. One compartment held the power supply, and the rest was for the custom split motherboard; one half holding the CPU, base memory and standard I/O, the other half holding the expansion boards; they were on the opposite sides of the machine so for complete motherboard access you really had to remove both side panels. Each compartment was covered with steel plates that were held with numerous screws, around ten each. If you needed to remove the front plastic panel, you had to unscrew it from the inside. I never got around to disassemble the whole thing, but getting to the bare chassis was around 40 screws. I've been told that thing was *expensive* (something like over two month's gross salary or so) and for obvious reasons. I also recall it being called "a nightmare" from the computer service perspective.
Oh. My. God.
this was may first "pc" - I got it 1996 from the company I worked for
Cool!
Good heavens, what a beast! Redundant power supplies--OK makes sense. Maybe designed for a high-reliability requirement, server, manufacturing control, whatever. Wait--redundant power supplies that can't be removed without completely disassembling the machine?!? I guess design for manufacture and design for maintainability really aren't priorities in a command economy.
To be historically accurate, depended very much on which designer bureau was involved. Hungarian Videoton has been making some really outstanding designs sometimes. Take even ES1841 - just a few wires inside, same functionality as this. But in general, this was as you told.
I'm probably wrong, but the cables which come out of one card and go back into another could be for DMA.
Check other comments, one guy explained why it was so.
Those voltage rails had me making a similar face to her. OMG that was certainly **A** way to do it. A good way? I don't know...
My friend Boris would solder it better.
This are double 6mm² wires for the 5V. Modern ATX supplies does also use multiple wires for 3.3V, in summary not much thinner...
@ChernobylFamily Please open the 5V power supply, and show the solder side of the low voltage PCB. They really riveted copper sheeting onto the tracks to increase the cross-section. Never seen such kind of madness.
Congratulations again, awesome video. This hardware is hard to see anywhere. Can you send an image with operating systems? Compatible with MS-DOS..
Still do not have them, but I suppose they are available across the Web
@@ChernobylFamily Name?
DCP1700
Love unique content! Nice!
Thank you!
Jeez that hard drive must have cost thousands of dollars alone in 1988.
It is very possible
honestly the trouble they had taking it apart kind of reminds me of working on my old jetta. just an absolute nightmare! i guess german equipment has always been that way, lol.
This is the point, mostly German equipment was not like this. That's why this was really surprising.
Hard drive looks like a western / far east unit, they just badged the original markings over with that paper sticker. The "warranty void" sticker under it is suspicious.
You clearly got the point :)
It goes back 35 years, not really so long, but it's remarkable how crude and clunky it looks. Far too much copper and dry electrical connections, and not enough silicon. Not really too different from western PCs of the time. I don't miss that equipment a bit.
Yes.
I think I found a website with schematics and EPROM dumps for the a7150 which should be similar to the cm1910, but TH-cam won't let me post it. If you want the link, give me a way to send it to you.
Thank you! Well, people post links here as well, just such comments get filtered, so we need to check them first before they go published. Alternatively, use an e-mail at the channel about page.
@@ChernobylFamily thank you. Then you should be able to see the post I made that contains the link. I hope it will answer some of your questions about the mistery connectors and will help you ressurect this machine.
They must have had a lot of screws in GDR. 😅
Looks like a late 70's early 80's micro computer stuffed into a Desktop case. As always the Russians were 10 years behind in the world of computing. The card cage kinda looks like a DEC PDP
Except DDR was actually Germany.
I had a cat named Robotrone. Seems like putting the computer back together would be challenging and require notes for all cables and screw diemensions.
Such a nice name for a cat! Our is Archibald Von Fuzik II, we named him in this pathetic way to underscore we found him on the street in a trashbin.
The most important question I have is has kitty been reviewed? If not Kitty needs a review.
He is a teammate, not an equipment :)
What a sh*t show of a computer! I commend you both for dismantling this beast. I would have lost my patience at trying to get the fans out. That was hilarious! Love the channel (and your cat!)
Thanks! You know what is crazy about all of this? Robotron normally made pretty good machines, but THIS one... we have no logical explanation why it was so.
@@ChernobylFamily Interesting! Actually didn't know about Robotron until I saw your video.
We have a very early video on our channel about robotron plotter as well. That is an example to compare with.
@@ChernobylFamily Thank you! I will definitely check it out. Keep up the great work. Very informative and entertaining.
*For those, who want to see some drama, check **11:00*
I think the only reason that the RAM boards had a connector on the front was if they were employed in other computers that had the RAM boards installed in a vertical position or 2up in a horizontal position and connected to each other in a serial configuration, of course this is pure speculation. I was wondering if there is a version of the Williams game Robotron that can run on this machine?
We thought in a similar way, or maybe these connectors are for some diagnostics... as for the game, just know it exists. The computer can run DOS- or CP/M-like OSes, so might be, if there is a dos version.
The manuals of the RAM (OPS-K3571) does not mention this connector aside from the overview drawing. I suspect this as a test connector.
Amazing craziness over-engineered !!!!. Love your videos, so funny and so didactic.
Thank you very much!
Thank you very much!
"To remove something you have to remove something and you find the screw to remove that is under something"
I think the same people designed Dell laptops. I have to replace the fan in mine, which is a commonly replaced part, and to do it I have to take the entire thing apart. Do better, Dell.
That hurts
Wow, that's funny, the CPU board has an intel processor, but two of the other boards each have east german Z80 clones! The KGS board has the Z80, CTC , and SIO(?)
That's a complete computer in itself!
Same thing with the KES board.... that computer has 3 computers in it.
It is an insane machine...
I think it would be good to desolder all EEPROM-s in this computer and read them (for ex. with MiniPro programmer or a lot cheaper Arduino stuff)
I have my fingers crossed that the EEPROM chips still hold their programming.
@@XalphYT one way to find out :)
Frankly, right now not really possible to do, though I believe it has been done before. This machine is not rare and there is a community of Robotron fans in Germany, so...
Not needed. The numbers on this EEPROMs (273-276) hints to BIOS(ACT) Version 2.3 who is already available. Only missing is the last Version 2.4. PM me if you need the URL.
Hi Chernobyl family!
I was wondering where I could possibly download these operating systems for my virtualbox, I really wanted to try these out.
We'll ask around and let you know
Thanks!
My friend, for Robotron for now I cannot find an answer. I'll check with my friends though. On our Patreon we have software for ES machines for now.
@@ChernobylFamily just wondering, where did you guys get all of these fascinating computers from?
@@kentwn It is a constant, every day search on all local classifieds, by scrappers, on marketplaces, all across Ukraine. We never get anything fully ready to go, in reality a circuit board there, a PSU here, a case there, some things we need to replicate. The main hunt is a documentation, this is a key to assemble everything together. For this we go to various archives, libraries, research institutes. Some papers we need to scan straight in Pripyat in abandoned buildings. So it is a big work. All starts from Chernobyl, as there are still people working who remember precisely what they have been using and how. We have some background stories published on our page about it.
Robotron is kind of a fascinating company to me. They seemed to provide computers for the German Democratic Republic (I love how dictatorships always shoehorn the word 'Democratic' into their names - like we won't notice they're actually an oppressive regime). Robotron's computers seem to have been mostly large-scale industrial computer, destined for Govt use, and their PC clones were mostly intended Govt and/or business. Availability was restricted, thanks to the limited chip manufacturing ability of the GDR, and would have certainly been well outside the price range of the general public.
None of these problems applied in West Germany of course. And with a Commodore manufacturing plant based there, Commodore 64s, PC clones (and later, Amiga 500s and 2000s) were easily available to the West German public, and the C64 in particular, really took off, with applications such as word processors, music sequencers, etc available on cartridge and floppy disk, as well as cassette. There were even innovative add-on devices that allowed a bank of cartridges to all be connected into one expansion, and then the user could switch between them as desired. Other popular computers of the time such as those by Atari, Amstrad (Schnider), Apple, Sinclair etc were also readily available.
By 1984, the GDR Govt was becoming increasingly aware of the growing digital skills gap between East & West, and Robotron were assigned the job of addressing it. To this end, they created the Robotron Z1013 - a single board home computer. After putting your money down and waiting a year, you got a microcomputer with 16Kb of RAM (expandable to 64Kb) with a built-in BASIC. You had to provide your own power supply, along with a tape recorder for storage, and a TV set for a display (connections for which were built-in). The keyboard supplied was a fairly horrible matrix keyboard, with characters arranged alphabetically. And if you wanted a case other than the supplied vacuum-formed tray, you had to provide your own. To this end, pretty much every Z101 set-up was unique. Graphics modes simply didn't exist, so games made clever use of blocks of text characters, similar to the UK's Sinclair ZX80 and ZX81 from a few years prior.
Clock speeds were limited to 1MHz, as thanks to the GDR's chronic chip-shortage, Robotron used chips that had been rejected for use from their other computers, as they didn't meet specifictions; and then simply underclocked them to have them run stably on the Z1013.
The computer was available for a good five years until the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union. At which point, the West Germans sold their old Commodore 64s to their East German neighbours, and went out and bought nice new Amiga 500s and 2000s instead.
You can read more about the Z1013 here:
computermuseum.50megs.com/brands/robotron.htm
www.retrothing.com/2013/02/1984-finally-an-east-german-home-computer.html
Thank you for sharing this!
@@ChernobylFamily You're quite welcome.
Soviet-era technology is fascinating to me. FYI, I grew up in the Shetland Islands, which lie about 200 miles either way between the far north of Scotland and Norway, just outside the Arctic Circle. The islands capital was one of four western ports where it was agreed that Soviet Union fish-processing ships could come and buy fish in bulk, to process on board, freeze and take back to the USSR. So, every year, dozens of these huge fish-factory ships known as Klondykers would sail into the sound outside the town, come alongside the fish factory and load up with hundreds of tonnes of mackerel, herring, cod, etc, and then sit in the sound for weeks, while the catch was cleaned, gutted and frozen on board.
The crews were paid relatively well for this work, and when they weren't working on board the ships, dozens would come shore and head to the local shops, buying as much cheap produce as they could, to take back to their homes and sell on the black market. Sneakers, jeans, cosmetics, cheap jewelry, bulk food items - dozens and dozens of jars of freeze-dried coffee) - all to be loaded onto the factory-ships lifeboats and then winched back on-board.
One of the most popular lines of goods were cheap electronics - kettles, alarm clocks, radios, watches all got bought, but so did larger electronics, like VCRs, and plenty of sinclair ZX Spectrum computers - all bought in bulk to take home and sell.
At the time, my parents drove a Lada Riva estate car. This was a Soviet-built version of a Fiat, and cheap, popular and reliable enough that some were exported to the UK. The Klondykers were desperate to buy one if they saw one, as that would sell for a small fortune back home, and my parents were offered as much as they'd paid for the car themselves, so that it could be loaded aboard the factory ship - though they couldn't actually afford to sell it at the time. I'm not sure who was more dissapointed - the Klondykers who offered to buy it, or my parents who couldn't afford to sell it 🤣
13:07 thats a nice piece made in Germany DDR
Yessss. These are really good drives.