I let all the smoke out again.. - Porsche 911 2.8 RSR Build Season 3.4
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2024
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You need to reset the torsion bars of you rear suspension to get the back of your car higher! Or your tires will keep rubbing. There is no other way around it.
+1, new shocks won't fix the ride height issue
Tip for next time re the oil... I had to change a leaking crush washer on my oil sump plug just after putting fresh oil into my Alfa Romeo 147 Twin Spark. I undid the oil filler cap on the rocker cover, put a rag over the filler hole and then jammed the nozzle of a shop vacuum into the oil filler hole. I started the vacuum and removed the sump plug. There was enough suction generated by the shop vacuum to prevent any oil from escaping out of the sump drain hole while I changed the crush washer and then refitted the sump plug. Worked like a charm... much to my surprise.
I probably don't have to mention the wisdom of keeping a fire extinguisher close by in the shop. I learned that the hard way. Thanks for your excellent videos.
Hey Jeff
If the rear tyres are rubbing on the inside of the arches its the ride height. The shocks wont change that.... You need to check the springs and also I noticed that your huge spacers are effectively reducing the tyre to arch clearance.......!!
Agreed, the ride height on the torsion bars can be adjusted. If the car has a basic VIN then are the torsion bars correct for the RSR, stance and big wings? The dampers will assist a little especially if they are gas charged as most modern dampers are. If the Konis are 'historic' then they will be oil damped only, yours appear to be these as the gas ones will gently rise to full extension off the car. Gas charged dampers add a little extra 'spring' rate to the suspension. Personally, I prefer Bilsteins for a road car as they are less harsh than the Konis - its all to do with the high speed damping. Konis are preferred for racing though, which is confirmed by your comments relating to Bilsteins for lesser 911s and the RSR being more track oriented.
As said, the rear spacers are excessive. For motorsports the maximum spacer thickness is 1"(25mm), which is safety led due to the extra load the spacers put on the studs and bearings. Narrower spacers ought to bring the tyre in sufficiently to prevent rubbing.
Another thought on this. As the shell is a basic one then the big wings have been added on and may not have been by the factory - are they set at the correct height?
I agree with John and Clive. Plus, you need a bit of oil before you put the front inserts in their housings. Other wife, you might get rattles. Engine oil will do.
I agree with John, springs control the ride height BUT in this case it seems to be a wheel travel issue. Should be controlled by a bumpstop with the correct block length.
@@misterplow1 The torsion bars control the wheel travel and should be of correct thickness to limit the distance travelled. The bump stops should not be used to resolve a deficiency of the incorrect torsion bars or something else. The bump stop is there to stop the damper bottoming out. As the bumpstop does not have a known spring rate it cannot be relied upon to control general suspension movement that would provide unpredictable handling on the limit.
A couple of other points that I thought of:
1) Has the chassis and/or suspension been aligned? It is quite common that a special may have been damaged previously or poorly assembled without a chassis jig. I have a Beetle with no obvious signs of damage and 944 rear suspension where the rear wheels are offset by 1/2" in the arches. After all, the 911 is a big sophisticated Beetle.
2) If Jeff took a passenger on his jaunt then was their weight not catered for? If it was the Missus then did she take her handbag as in my experience they can hold excess weight, sometimes the kitchen sink!!!
Dont forget to show Mrs Jeff driving it!
One of the benefits of how the 911 suspension is designed is that it is adjustable in ways most other factory stock cars are not. You can make lager ride height adjustment by rotating the torsion bars and micro adjustments on the spring plate. Hope this helps
How does changing the rear shocks stop the rear wheel rubbing on the Guard??? Take the spring out and lift the rear wheel to full up position..if it touches then change wheel, tyre, wheel spacer, gaurd or bump stop...increasing damping rate or spring rate is not the way to fix it.
Jeff, Loctite make a really effective "hydraulic sealant" for jobs just like that crankcase oil fitting it will seal it from leakage/seepage and lock the fitting orientation, so the fitting will not get disturbed when you work on the other fittings on that pipe.
Need to be careful as they are soft magnesium cases, using a thread lock type loctite... one of the tread sealing products.
Harry is looking amazing Jeff, great work. You need to show it off on more Facebook groups as you have done such an amazing job on it 😎👍🏻
Loctite that aluminium fitting in the case, red loctite, you dont want that to loosen unless you heat it up.
For the suspension ho with bigger torsion bars, stock front, 29mm rears are fine, you might go to 21/29, 21/30.
But do torsion bars and bushings together because its a pain in the rear job...
Jeff shocks good bad or indifferent do not control the height of your car. That is the job of the spring. It would suggest that your rear springs are sagged.
I think this was the most stressful video to date. Watching the smoke waft from below as you fired it up was a huge OMG!!! moment. Ah, but you had it covered and all's well that ends well! Wow, you have a running Harry!
28 Luftgekühlt geht's los!!!
Simply CANNOT wait for the drive videos. Good luck with the next few things until then!
Hi Jeff, I had the same experience with the front shock inserts - oil everywhere and I thought it was just blown inserts. Turns out that that oil is supposed to be in there. It transfers any heat generated in the insert to the outer case. I think it is just standard motor oil. I had the same experience with the suspension change - night and day! Your car looks awesome! I know you are going to have lots of fun with it! Oh, had the exact same thing happen with the wiring in the Beetle I was working on. It took a bit to figure out what was going on but the engine power wire had completely chafed and shorted out. It was pretty exciting!!. Safe travels, Franny
The shocks really did make a night and day improvement. Now to sort the rest of the dodgy wiring under the dash ;)
I'm happy to see Harry coming together finally and the little things getting fixed. Enjoy the fruits of your labor Jeff!
Looking great Jeff! One (personal) suggestion - front grille change to black ?
Is the rear torsion bar or coil spring? Did you replace them during the build, I can't remember if you did. Either way if they are 50 years old perhaps they have sagged or lost tension? Sounds like you just need to bump up the ride height by a bit and replacing the Springs/torsion bars from old sagged ones to new ones would help. Springs/Torsion bars set the ride height not the shocks, the shocks control damping rate and control the spring.
The burned wire had a direct short and no fuse. Did you install a fuse, or run the wire to a fuse panel? If that happens without you there to disconnect power it will likely start a fire.
Stoked for you and the suspension tranformation , result, driving vids are what im looking forward to , been out in me mates old 70s carrera many a time lovely driving experience ,
G'day Jeff....your bench grinder (floating around all over the place when you're using it), is doing my head in...hahaha
I appreciate you may need/want to be able to remove the grinder to use the bench for other purposes..... but here's an idea to consider:
Why not add 4 bolts to the mounting holes of the grinder, with the threads pointing downwards and with about 50mm of bare thread protruding downwards. Then drill 4 corresponding holes in the bench.
That way you can have the grinder sitting "in" the 4 holes when you're using it, but still able to be lifted off the bench when you need to use the bench for other purposes.
Just a thought...
As always it's a joy to watch you clear up one thing after another! Great work and I hope you really are enjoying your fantastic car! 😊👏👏👏
A lot of people here are suggesting to reset the torsion bars.
You could also go flat out and get coil overs for it.
I've seen it on another TH-cam channel ( speed academy) where he deletes the torsions.
From his point of view a big step up in ride quality also.
Just a thought.😉
As always, love your channel.
I have similar style front inserts on my first gen Rx7, one tip I've been givin is to put a small amount of oil in the tube before you put the insert in, it helps to transfer the heat out of the shock and into the surrounding metal so it can dissipate faster/more efficiently! Helps the shocks perform better and last longer, just don't put too much so you don't make a mess. My friend does the same on his old datsun 510.
Can you add a bracket to support the tube and stop it moving when doing oil changes etc. it’s quite long so there’s a lot of leverage with out a fixing bracket.
Great to see your so positively animated about the car
For the 3.2 case, the workshop manual recommends to put some Loctite 270 (green one) between on the fitting threads (well this is for the aluminum case I reckon... Maybe yours is a magnesium).
Enjoy your approach in showing your progress, things that go wrong and all your learnings. Keep up the good work.
Please use different music backtracks more often. If I hear that riff one more time I just leave the video running in mute. Hahahaha in all seriousness please add variety in music back tracks.
Congrats to you well done.
Glad to see you went with rubber and not harder urethane. I made that mistake totally ruined the ride quality. I'll be switching both cars back this winter. So glad the damage was minimal, never good to let the smoke out LOL.
Glad you are ticking off the snag list 😊
Do be very careful of the electrics. 50 year old wiring to begin with and people mess with it when they don't understand electrics. Also, the normal cable we buy in the shops is usually 10amp and that won't cut it for a fair few circuits on most cars. For instance the switched live to most modern radio's is 15amp fuse so you need a cable gauge greater than 15amps etc etc.
For the rear suspension it's not best to rely on the dampers. Those 50yr old torsion bars won't be the same strength as when they left from the factory especially the drivers side as the constant weight of the driver makes that side weaker over time and it'll sag a bit compared to passenger side. New torsion bars, and maybe even slightly heavier poundage, would be a good thing.
You could also get adjustable shocks with assistor coil overs so best of both worlds then.
Either way loving your videos as always 😁
Harry is fighting you all the way to the end!
He hasn't beaten me though ;)
Amazing work Jeff, Bravo!!!
240z's had the same arrangement that you saw with the front struts. When replacing the strut internals an insert, I was told to use some ATF in strut tube to aid in heat transfer between the new insert and the outer strut tube..
Another major milestone! Can imagine that's soooo satisfying to finally have it driving properly.
Amazing it still had the old, original shocks! o0 Porsche quality. heh
Love what you have done with this car but mate..... when are you going to finish the exhaust tips??
Sorry. Your tire rub won't be resolved by changing the ride height unless you plan on limiting all wheel travel. However, that's not how suspension is supposed to work. There must be clearance throughout the jounce and rebound travel of the suspension and attached bits. Increasing ride height and/or increasing the spring rate for additional clearance defeats the purpose of setting up a properly working suspension. The first high speed/high load steady state road curve or road dip will overcome any ride height adjustment and/or "normal" increase in spring rate.
If there are wheel spacers, remove them or use thinner spacers. Another remote possibility is that corner has excessive camber in the positive direction and/or a damaged (bent) control arm.
If the above possibilities are within factory specs, the difficult answer is that the tire/wheel combination may have excessive offset. What size wheels and tires are you using? Were the wheels custom built with excessive offset? You could try the next smaller tire width or a higher profile tire or even a change in tire manufacture. Not all identical size tires have identical tire dimensions. Not the best final solution. If the wheel/tire offset is the culprit, that should be addressed.
Ride height has little to do with shocks, it is the spring rate and position that decides that. Torsion bar might be in the wrong position. These shocks doesn’t seem to be preloaded with gas so they won’t do anything at all to ride height, and foam up with less damping when going rough.
Hi Jeff, I did not realize that you had the late style "S" brakes on your car. That is a win for sure as they are hard to find. I just sourced a pair for my 72 and can't wait to install them, but I'm easily like 2 years out! Great video as usual.
Good sorting Jeff! So excited for You!! Take us with You for a cruise next time lol! Cheers Brother!
My heart sunk when the wiring started to smoke. Glad it was an easy fix :)
This is great to see Jeff, good on you fella
Maybe your rear spacers are too big, slightly thinner spacer might just give you the clearance to stop the rear scraping.
“That’s one way to get it off” 😂
Rear ride height is adjusted with torsion bars or springs.
If you feel confident now, you should take it out on the highway and run it continuously for at least an hour, get it home, pull the sparkplugs and see what tales they have to tell.
Re-index the rear torsion bars to raise the rear a little Jeff...
we need a proper photoshoot of Harry!!
rear rub issue, is it the hub spacers ? just a thought.
How lucky not to get out of the drive with the wiring issue
Maybe the rear was touching because of excess movement in the front end? Anyway it’s great to see you succeeding with your replacements and repair solutions. 🙂
Sounds like you definitely need to reindex the torsion bar a little higher
I'm so glad you car didn't burn. I would've cried.
Glad you’ve sorted the issues... shame about the rear arch...
Wow this Car have never ending Problems but a nice Car. I Hope the Car is not to hard now If you Drive it❤️👍❤️
It iS as u say a good looking Beast.
Nice to see Harry getting over his troubles but I think he may still have a rear end slight issue, I am thinking his rear has taken a pounding over the years and it's slightly saggy. A tighten up on the torsion side might be in order then he wont sag on to the rear tyre.
Have you got wheel spacers on the rear? They would cause the car to sit lower.
Jeff do yourself a favour and buy yourself a new wiring harness, after 50 years the copper in the lines will have work hardened in places and built up resistance. most classic car problems are due to faulty wiring. Or build your own new loom with a PDU life the liferacing one, so no relays just signal wires, expensive but simple, it will also let you do things like so many presses of a button or a sequence before starting as a known to you only start sequence, loads and loads of options. Also might be worth resetting your reset torsion bars if you are still getting rubbing as it will only get worse as the new shocks bed in.
might be a good idea to have a fire extinguisher mounted in the car from now on
I already have one in there, I just need to mount it properly ;)
I bet you fair crapped your pants when the smoke started! P.s. the aviation technician in me shuddered when you were using multigrips and an adjustable spanner on those oil fittings but you got it all done mate.
There is no other tools that will fit while the engine is assembled unfortunately.
You did what you had to.. And you got it done..and it's not an aircraft so I'll get over myself 😄
Haha. The listed factory torque setting was something like 120nM which I wasn't willing to try on a 50 year old mag case. I suppose now I am paying for it ;)
Visit from a fire prevention officer perhaps ?
Even if it " only touched twice in 45mins " it can still blister your paint. Sort out the ride height/wheel spacers as has already been said.
Take us for a ride Jeff.
Who let the smoke out?
Who? who? who? 🎶
it looks like these koni replacement rear shocks are bad, it suppose to lift rear suspension after it is installed, these koni ones wont do any good, usually you need to use extra jack under shocks to insert bolt because it springs back when shock is good of course,
👍👍 would a slightly narrower tyre get rid of that last bit rub? 315 to a 305 kinda thing?
Hey, get us the drive video. Dying to see it on the road!
shit mate, i really hope you get Harry all sorted soon. when you pulled the front shocks, did you check to make sure there was no oil on the disc or pads?
Would be nice to add V-band clamps on each side of the muffler to allow each header to be removed separate
wow, i swear i smelled that wire as the smoke came out.. glad it's all good now
It's just the bread in the toaster you're cooking in the kitchen go check it😁
@@dwmfty3111 wiring smoking has a distinct smell.. go test it out now so you know the difference lol
I can't remember if you added a fuse for the instrument lights. In their infinite wisdom, Porsche never fitted one. I added a 0.5 A inline fuse for mine, just to be safe.
Oh goth this is more a bloody thriller than car build O_O
Jeff!
You need to get that rubbing dealt with before you hit the track - it will blister again! Sorry - my 911 ownership was when I was a "dumb kid" so no technical knowledge to share.
Love the shirt mate
Was the torsion bar work before the exhaust was painted?
I think the pipe adapter piece is supposed to be threadlocked?
Harry is busting your chops lol
When you pulled the front shock I laughed out loud, only because I have done similar and there is disbelief that it just happened that way. Again you overcame a lot. I hate it that your paint blistered. Is there anything you can do to give yourself a little more clearance?
That needs an exhaust upgrade
Great content!!!!
cant you bracket it off the bottom of the case so its rigid in that area so it cant twist?
Changing the shocks will have no effect on ride height.
smoke tested and fire dept. approved. be safe, have fun.
Love the work, but why didn't you repair the oil leak the last time you had the engine out?
You can't get to it with the engine on the lift table.
rear torsion bar ajustment ?
Those koni red are not very good, they are not gas filled, you need a complet new suspension with new springs ass well, a sachs performance, bilstein b12, h&r maybe kw if you want to spend the money on one off the best suspension, or kw budget line stx
Regards sören
Edge of my seat
I know you are a firefighter but what kind of fire extinguisher do you have in the car?
every shock i ever replaced would spring back up pretty quick, how come porsche ones don't do that?
Only internal gas pressure pushes it back out, but dampened. These ones looks like they are simple and might foam up.
i thought it was only Lucas products that let the magic smoke out ?
What does 28LUFT mean on the number plate
As soon as I saw that oil leak on the exhaust pipe, I thought "looks like a browned sausage!"
Echt deutscher Bratwurstauspuff!
The Porsche factory manual states that whatever oil doesn't come out when you take the guts out and push the new shock in you are supposed to leave in for cooling & damping....just sayin.
Tire to arch clearance still needs work. Bitten you once big time, don't make it twice. Was gutted to see the paint blister....
Ive seen it so many times over 50yrs in the motor trade , after market Radios fitted and wired by idiots ending in burnt out or badly damaged motor cars .
Multigrips and a shifter???? Ill pretend i didnt see that.
Time for that exhaust to go ,replacing with something quality to match rest of car.
Had to laugh at the front shocks, haven’t seen that type for 45 years, old VW’s, Audi and Porsche had those cartridges... they always made a mess when changing and stank! 🤢
There is nothing to complain about with the built up dampers, which actually offer advantages in unsprung weight and rebuildability as well as a more effective stroke length. That rebuildability allows fine tuning of the damper in that the oil viscosity and oil quantity can be varied without sending them back to the factory. Most high performance motorcycles use this type of damper on the front wheel and nobody complains about them. All the best motor racing dampers are similarly rebuildable with even the valving being variable.
Take it to V Dub dealer........
You must have a have a cat with amount of hair on your shirt