Why I Despise Sam Manson
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2025
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Sam was basically the kind of goth kid South Park was making fun of.
Yeah except Matt and Trey like those goth kids
Tbf they were written better, not so much with Sam imo
@@TheodosiaNova except the Goth Kids were written way better!
Lol true.
Sam’s reaction to Danny giving up his powers was what turned me against her a bit, as a kid. It would be one thing if she were worried about the safety of the town, or Danny’s state of mind… but instead she was, like,
“Ugh. You used to be cool and special! Now you’re… ordinary! Lame!!”
*DEFINITELY* not a good look for the character, especially as a last impression right at the finale...
Just goes to show just how much she *really* "cared" about him...
@ exactly! She may as well have come right out and said “I liked Danny PHANTOM, not Danny Fenton!”
given how poorly done phantom planet was as a whole, that was just par for the course.
"you're not a chad with literal super-powers anymore!"
"Seriously guys, it's okay to be whi-" caught me off guard
Naw pretty normal
Same lol
same man. same.
I say outta pocket shit this caught me off guard
I can finally be my true self… a cis straight white man.
The bully episode: Why would Sam be against Danny getting revenge? The whole episode seemed to think Danny was a bully. He wasn’t. He was fighting back and it wasn’t to someone weaker or less popular
Danny wasn't so much fighting back as he was getting revenge, which was bad. The episode is flawed because it doesn't explain that Danny's pranks don't solve anything, but rather just cause more pain.
Also, why did Poindexter ignore Danny getting bullied but only reacted when Danny got payback. And no, it's not cause Danny was using his ghost powers cause earlier in the episode, he did prevent a nerd from being pranked
@@ShadyDooragson that note, I'm guessing that's primarily why you disliked that scene from Man of Steel, when Clark destroyed that guy's truck. Clark was using his powers for a mostly selfish reason and for retribution just because the guy was a jerk to him. While I disagree with your stance on Man of Steel as a whole....I DO agree with you on that scene, it's unlike Superman to abuse his power that way. Danny is essentially making that same mistake in that episode, though he does learn his lesson in the end.
@@Animestar21that's because Poindexter isn't seeing the whole side of the story, he happened to witness Danny using his powers against Dash, and didn't see Dash bully Danny. This is one of those situations Shady talks about all the time where a problem can be solved if characters just communicate, this is a prime example of that.
@@christianjohnson5379 right. I just forgot because I didn't like how Danny was victimized in this episode for wanting payback.
I actually liked Danny and Valerie more as a couple instead of Dan and Sam
I did like Valerie and Danny because he genuinely won her over and changed how she looked at others
Everyone did
Same.
100% Agree with you
Same
Honestly, I really like the idea of someone entering a competition with no intention of winning, and they're just trying to make things worse for the other competitors. Thing is that role should be saved for an antagonist, not one of the main characters.
Reverse Flash ahh mentality
It was me Barry!"
UNLESS that main character is a secret antagonist
@@user-zs9ux1ru8u Or if that main character is just the antagonist of that specific episode. That's allowed to be the case. Especially if it contributes to the character growing past one of their established flaws.
Though, in the case of putting Sam in a Pageant scenario, that would have worked a lot batter IF it was a thing the show was doing that Sam was developing into a character that stands on her own and isn't dependent on her environment. If she was in the process of becoming someone who was part of the goth counterculture for genuine reasons (as opposed to 'simply because it's the furthest thing from what is considered "normal"'), I could see it being admirable if she genuinely wanted to enter a beauty pageant with no expectation of winning, but simply a desire to share a different kind of beauty to people and push the envelope of what is considered respectable.
We'll for a really long time I've had an idea for an antagonist in a story who enters some competition, but likes to lose on purpose sometimes when they can easily win. For example, if they got into a boxing match, beat their opponent within an inch of his life and then forfeited right when the match was about to be called. It's not like he would do it every time, though. The antagonist would just do it to those who want to win, but they also want to earn their win. The antagonist would leave them with an unearned victory on their record.
Sam is one of those characters that is deeply rooted in the era she was made in. In the sense that everything she views as “abnormal” or “unique” have become mainstream.
She’s a trend chaser, plain and simple. A hipster and an activist fighting for causes she doesn’t really know about, all so that she appears different. It’s a very easy trap to fall into, one even people in real life find themselves getting caught up in. Trying too hard to be something you’re not, forcing that on others, and ultimately making everything about you while masquerading as if it’s about some social cause or whatever is in the trend to be “socially conscious” about. The kind of character that makes their entire personality be defined by their “abnormality” in some vain attempt at being unique.
She’s the type of character, that if written today would be completely insufferable.
Are you kidding? She’ll be thriving in modern times
@@jamesvanitas You just agreed with what op said. lol
@@jamesvanitasMade by insufferable twats who would be whores in the kitchen if it meant saving their asses. Look at Ukraine.
She was annoying then too.
Watching Danny Phantom nowadays made me realize Sam is just another leftist lunatic.
She didn't let Danny have the hot latina or cool black girl
EVIL
“I just love latinas Sonic”
-Shadow the Hedgehog
to be fair the latina only liked the ghost boy not Danny himself
@@MrWanton16 yeah I know, but it's like Danny liked her because she was cute
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD he did , she was a asshole though. valerie was solid though. there also needs to be some objectivity that he can pick who he wants
One issue with the Menu I don't see people bring up: The idea of someone could have gotten sick, of been forced to forgo eating lunch at all because they couldn't eat her diet. The closest to this getting brought up in the episode is that Dash hates it.
Also, there was the one time she tried to encourage Danny to destroy a bunch of ATVs because she didn't like how much gas they used, not even considering all the hardship that could have come from that. Once again, she was trying to force her ideals on others without considering the consequences of her actions.
Huh. That's actually something that comes up a lot for Sam, her wanting to do something or make a change without considering how badly it could end up going. Releasing the gorilla, changing the menu, Ect. Etc.
Also, and this is just a me thing, she had no reason to cut that dress short after dying it black. Even fashion wise, it would have looked not only fine, but good at full length.
You're not wrong about the dress like making it short was completely unnecessary, if you think about it she's like that chick from Scott Pilgrim Ramona Flowers a semi-goth chick who destroys everything she touches by being a serial cheater just like Scott
see I don't think you're supposed to take it that seriously. Danny Phantom is weird because it's a Butch Hartman show, but it's also KIND OF trying to be a serious action show. The two don't mesh, and the general humor is obviously "don't think about it, it's just a cartoon" stuff.
The hilarious irony is that Sam is clearly designed to be ignored and her opinions dismissed, which is exactly what leads to the crummy groups she belongs to.
It should be noted that grass and mud _are not foods._
@ technically... most food, by volume, is a form of grass...
Fr. Danny gets raked over the coals for using his powers for personal stuff, but it's fine for her personal stuff
The beginning of my lifelong hatred of vegans.
Oh man, you must REALLY hate them
As a former server, I also hate vegans.
THAT'S where it came from! Thank you!
I only have a problem with the hardcore vegans. The ones that dress up as animals and claim we’re “violating their rights” yet they do nothing about helping people who are poor. I’d gladly eat a chicken wing in front of them.
Scott Pilgrim vs. the World Ruined a Whole Generation of Women
Funny thing about Sam is she talks so much about being a Goth, when really she's a poser. Yeah she does all the superficial goth stuff, wearing black, talking about dark stuff, being anti whatever, but she's Goth in the sense Hot Topic is goth. It looks Goth, but without the more dark, depressed, poetic side to it.
I mean I love wearing dark clothes, primarily black, I enjoy scary things like Horror Movies and the like, but I don't consider myself Goth as I don't share the same goth mindset and neither does Sam. Shame the show never calls her out on that.
Funny thing is , the wiki says that Sam's label as a goth is more about her view of herself as an individual, though it's more positive about the whole thing.
@ Yeah but let's face it, Sam's more a Goth in the sense of "I'm Rebelling and want to Feel Special and Unique" rather than "I'm extremely depressed or have a genuinely darker outlook on the world."
Definitely just a phase lol
Oh my god she did South Park Twilight
Didn't Quan get her kicked out of her dark poetry club?
Fact that she literally shares a voice with Vicky probably doesn’t help.
That is no offense towards Grey DeLisle as an actress, I’m just saying as someone who grew up on Fairly OddParents, I’m going to associate the voice given to the character with a mean babysitter. She literally sounds like Vicky in some scenes
She also voiced Mandy in Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, as well as Azula in Avatar.
22:55 I don't understand what the writers of Velma were thinking with this line.
Are they trying to say being a guy is less work then being a girl.
As a boy one thing that annoys is when someone believes that being a guy is less work.
Guys don't have periods, need bras, and can't get pregnant but we still have are own problems like having the social pressure to be the main financial support of a house hold.
That specific line was about gender perception, but when placed in the context of the entire episode, yes, it was trying to say that men have everything easier. Everyone treats Velma better specifically because she's disguised as a man and she makes multiple statements about how easy her life is now and could potentially be in the future if she kept up the act.
God that show was awful.
Being a Guy IS Easier, all you need to do is have a steady paying job (in today's economy), be able to live alone with your own money (in today's economy), have a well functioning car (in today's economy), be able to afford psychological help (in today's economy) else you will be required to simply repress whatever traumatic or mental struggles you have to endure for the rest of your life, be tough and don't share your emotions for any reason yet still be genuine with your thoughts somehow, and not have any negative emotions or feelings that may make you look more like a menace than a Human being (which is REALLY easy to do so long as you don't speak, don't look at anyone, and reduce all Human contact to a Null)...
Oh and all while carrying two, **VERY** Fragile marbles that will stun your whole body should you even have your legs too close together (all while sitting in a way that pleases Twitter despite the Huevos you're born with)
That ain’t the real Velma but a sham
Easy: that writer is Mindy Kaling, and she likes to complain about how non-hetero women of color have it harder
Even though Mindy specifically belongs to a rich family that is ultra-connected to a lot of Hollywood higher-ups, and has publicly joked about the time she sexually assaulted her gay coworker and threatened to fire the staff member that reported it
Fun Fact: Sam and Jazz were the only characters in the show to never be possessed.
They were mind-controlled, but never outright possessed by a ghost.
Maddie does get overshadowed by Dani in the episode "Kindred Spirits".
@ShadyDoorags You’re right. I don’t know how I forgot about that.
Wasn't there a whole episode where Jazz was being overshadowed by Kitten? Like Johnny 13 had her wear Kittens close and for a short time Kitten took complete control.
@@knellchthyomi2884 I think that was kind of simular to PoinDexter's episode.
Wasn't Sam possessed by that dragon chick
I actually think Sam's Parents are the biggest reason for Sam's negative traits since the circus thing is the same as the grass lunch thing just flipped
That was always my mindset. Sam isn't any different than her parents, she's just got different focuses than them.
Isn't Sam technically Jewish? Maybe she hates that her parents embraced being WASP wannabes so hard in contrast to their ethnic identity.
I agree about Beauty Marked because how much better would the episode have been if Sam grew to appreciate why the other girls like the beauty pageant, had a change of heart about the girls who want to participate in it and actually got along with them, and THEN she learned that Dora is a ghost and the whole thing is a trap? That would make her new motivation protecting these other girls from a genuine place of care and would've shown that she's capable of empathy towards people who aren't different, people who conform. She still doesn't have to like the pageant itself, but this episode could have been great if Sam actually learned something.
That would’ve actually made her feminist tendencies become a much more interesting side of her. She regularly butts heads with every other female character in the show, especially the popular girls, but having her bond with them over the stress of preparing for a beauty pageant could help her see value in other girls even if they don’t like the same things or have the same goals.
As she is in the show, she just appears to hate most other important female characters, so her being a bit of a feminist leaning character more comes off like she’s just really cares about the only girl who actually matters: herself.
The character who is wrong but the writers are on their side is one of my easiest peeves to push.
The "activist" character was pretty popular when I was growing up (except when adapting Jean Grey who actually fit the character in not just her early depictions but her backstory gives her an understandable reason to be that way) so I was surrounded by them every time I turned on the TV. They were the go-to "girl personality" and writers didn't like having them be in the wrong so they'd write them as if they were right even if the story was disagreeing with them.
And now our society practically worships them and somehow cranks up their absurdity to 11…
Wait, so does that imply fictional characters on their own have a "soul" to judge outside of the writers themselves?
(I am not an expert on how fiction works, so I am lost).
It's all just neurons firing in your brain homie
@@theheroneededwillette6964And that’s why there’s so many of them beat up in NYC.
@@leithaziz2716 in a sense, yes. Because they're either designed by committee, where a writing team comes up with how they act, what they do/say. Or in the case of characters written by a single individual, (like in the case of most books) the characters, if not just written to fill a trope that's desired, will take on individual aspects of the writers personality, but without the other traits, grown into an individual all their own, with their own unique traits from their creator.
For example, if someone is brave (willing to do extremely risky things when needed) but cautious (doesn't like to take unnecessary risks that might result in damage or harm). Writes a couple characters who each only has one of these traits, you'll end up with a "dare devil" character, someone who's headstrong, and tends to act before thinking. And a "cowardly" character, someone who's always scared of possible outcomes, and will try to avoid any and all conflict. Two very common tropes.
Sorry, went on a bit of a tangent there lol, but I think the answer is more of a kinda. Because it all depends on who's writing for a character at any specific time. Like we all know who Super Man is, how he should act ECT. But if you have some writers who just want to be different and "shake things up", you'll get a Super Man who doesn't act at all like the Clark Kent everyone knows and loves. You get someone self inserting their own ideas, beliefs, and politics into a character that's not theirs. So we have a character who we all know how he should act and behave, but since he'll never actually have a voice, or ability to act for himself, he'll always be judged based on the writers. So although a character can have their own soul, it's never really able to be judged since they're never actually their own person, always a puppet used to entertain/teach others.
Damn dude, you're little question has me philosophizing all of fiction in my head now lol 😅
I don't hate Sam as she can be an enjoyable character with her even having a fun dynamic with Tucker, but I fully acknowledge the problems with her character such as her hypocrisy
Same
I just can't get behind her hypocrisy.
Definitely
Lol, it's really overlooked how judgmental counterculture types are, they are always portrayed as being more understanding/open minded and accepting, when it's completely the opposite, they often tend to be the most judgmental people.
Exactly! Thats what I’ve been saying! Say what you will about the normies or squares, but at least we’re honest about the judgement
What about hippies?
@@LizardLover27 Among the worst offenders.
I know, and sadly it's these very people we deal with today. They think that they are fighting the system when they in fact ARE the system now, and judge those who don't follow their lifestyle or agenda.
@@LizardLover27 ask a Hippie their opinion of active duty soldiers...or arms dealers.
Sam is really annoying on rewatch with her whole "conform to my unconformity" type of character. Danny is not gonna have a good date/marriage life with how much Sam will be controlling him.
It's probably why she wasn't the goth girl that awakened me to goth girls.
Who was?
It was ember for me
It's been a while since I've watched it, but is Sam even really goth? She seems like she's more basic punk than goth.
Ah the leftist mentality
@@TheChildofAuraReborn I would agree but they are playing up the non conformity thing with her character probably because of the stereotype think the goth kids from South Park
Danny and Valerie deserved to be together
THIS.
ditto. they had a far more interesting dynamic and better chemistry.
Valerie never clicked for me. Idk, I guess I just really didn't like her attitude, or how much she hated Danny without cause after discovering who he was even though her life being upended was out of his control.
YEP!
Agreeed!!!
"Doesn’t eat anything with a face" I bet Koh the face stealer has some meals that would be appropriate for her.
I bet she was just doing it because it wasn't a norm
Nice reference. Based ATLA fan
That's a vegan
"We're having face for dinner? I wanted chicken fingers!" - Uncle Cheech from Fugget About It
You know, I used to like Sam Manson when I was a kid, but now that I'm older and did some reflecting, Sam wasn't a good character, if I'm being honest.
Should've been Valerie
@@itshobojoe1391not only because character wise but imagine all the storylines that could’ve happen with Danny and Valerie 😭
Eh I never found her annoying still don't but I prefer crazy like azula
@bumblebeeproductions1673 Agreed, I loved Valerie too. She's cool!
@@itshobojoe1391FACTS.
To answer your question, about the info on Danny and Sam's relationship status on the wiki. Years ago Butch Hartman did a video called "Danny Phantom 10 Years Later" and in that video, Butch pretty much confirmed that Danny and Sam are canonically married.
Butch doesn't own the rights to Danny Phantom. He sold it, paramount plus owns it now, so does what he say really counts as Canon?
@leone_solaris He may not own the rights to Danny Phantom, but he's still the series creator.
And as the creator of the series, people still consider what he says to be canon.
@@TheCommenterDragon it doesn't matter if he's the creator due to him selling the rights he no longer has any claim or has any input on where Danny Phantom can go, and people can take what he says as Canon fine, doesn't mean it is.
@@TheCommenterDragon Even as much as I hate the shill of a man, I agree with you on that. I think the creator does have a say on what is and isn't canon (within reason). That being said, because he doesn't own the show and isn't making it anymore, if Nickelodeon continued Danny Phantom (highly unlikely) other creators would have a say on what is and isn't canon as well. It's a weird situation.
@@zacharybartolo5111 Nickelodeon actually has a graphic novel which is a continuation of the show (A Glitch in Time), with an unnamed sequel in the works. So it is being continued, just not animated and not by Mr. Hartman.
The “everything i touch dies” was too perfect shady 😂
Valerie was such a better romantic interest for Danny.
Valerie is a girl who understands Danny, The only reason they weren't together is because just about everything bad that happens to her in the show is associated with ghosts, she goes from one of the richest families in town to being on the same financial level as Danny's family which drops her from the popular crowd this also lets her see who her true friends are, through having that project with Danny she gets to know him on a personal level she comes to realize Danny is a boy who's worth fighting for
@@byronrush9802she was a great character.
@@byronrush9802counterarguement: Rose and Jake Long
@@Animestar21 I like Valerie for Danny because when she realizes she liked him she went all in she doesn't do any of that beating around b******* Sam was doing the entire show, you don't deserve to get the guy if you're not willing to fight for him Sam
@@Animestar21 The enemies-to-lovers trope with them was beautiful, Valerie was under the impression she needed to break up with Danny to protect him from the ghosts because she didn't know he was Danny phantom
The trope of incompetent father (a subset of the competent girl/ incompetent boy trope) is the most aggravating thing in television. In my opinion, it's the #1 reason men aren't taken seriously as child care providers.
One word: balance. Compassionate himbos are lovable. Just dont oversature the market with one archetype of character.
True. I Don't even agree that Kim Possible is a good example of it either. Still like the show but Ron is just a joke.
Theres a big difference between letting out a dangerous wuld animal which is illegal and should be reported and taking a embarrassing photo which would make bullied students even more bullied and would be in a public book for years
Dude, it's a cartoon.
The Gorilla's in cartoons aren't as big a threat as they are in real life.
Also the Gorilla would be shot. Sam's family has so much money she could become a patron of the zoo to upgrade their animals treatment, but no let's release a Gorilla into the city.
What was always weird to me is that Danny and Tucker made it sound like what Sam did was embarrassing . . . HOW?! If anything it was extremely illegal and telling other people could result in jail time. Heck, kids are stupid, the school would probably praise Sam for being so daring.
@Darth_Bateman ok and? By your logic I shouldn't care about anything in it because it's a cartoon
Exactly, releasing a wild animal could have endangered a lot of people and the zoo workers would likely have had to put down the gorilla for everyones safety
Anyone else feel like there was a missed story opportunity in pairing Danny with someone like say Ember. And I mean that seriously, Danny spends all this time fighting ghosts, yet ending up falling in genuine love with another Ghost, one he fought against before, it'd be kind of interesting to see how the show tackled such an idea. Would the relationship be automatically doomed or could they find a way to make it work, maybe find a way to make Ember fully human or half human so she's like Danny.
Just saying there is a lot of potential there.
The wiki says that in the future, Ember gains a crush on Danny. (I'm guessing from the comics?)
@@ShadyDoorags Not sure, but it would've been truly interesting to see it explored don't you think?
@@ShadyDoorags Butch Hartman actually did a series of drawings exploring what woudl happen to the characters 10 years after the finale and in his I guess headcanon Ember developed an attraction to Danny.
Honestly, that sounds like an excellent idea for a love triangle when you include Valerie. Danny is initially the cause for a lot strife in both their lives, but gradually becomes helps both Ember and Valerie become better versions of themselves. This could coincide with both of them gaining feeelings for Danny. However, they each are only half of Danny’s world, and will very naturally come into conflict when Valerie discovers she has a rival for Danny’s affection who is also a ghost.
It’s not the deepest character dynamic, but it is pretty straightforward and easy to understand (which means it works well for a tv show), and the interactions between characters almost write themselves.
Uh, isn't she technically a little old for Danny? When is it implied she died again?
Glad to see KND getting some recognition for the great characters that the show produced
KND will always be underrated in my viewpoint. That show was so good on so many layers. I'm still trying to get the word out in hopes it may get some form of push for GKND.
I prefer Danny and Valerie as a couple than Dan and Sam. It felt predictable and bland that the guy with ghost powers would end up with the goth girl who is his childhood friend
Meanwhile the rich girl who becomes a ghost-hunter, attracted to the secret ghost-hero does have unique potential.
I actually hated that pairing because Valerie was everything Danny hated, and she was trying to actually kill him.
@@brandonhelcher3691 It's too predictable or cliche
The problem with Sam is that she never faces any serious consequences for her actions and has the writers (or at least Butch Hartman) completely in her pocket. Everything about the show from the story to even the main character himself revolves around the “Sam is perfect and should never change” narrative. If anything, Sam is the character who should have changed more than anyone.
Something I've seen regarding discussions about Danny Phantom is how they would like to see the series rebooted. And one parts of that discussion is how to actually improve Sam as a character, and part of that same discussion involved removing the romance element regarding Danny, another part of that discussion involved actually making Danny and Valerie a couple, and thus bringing Val into the core group, and Valerie has a track record of knowing how to push Sam's buttons in ways that can likely actually challenge her.
Or just get rid of Sam entirely. Danny and Tucker are enough.
@realJoeMavro I think by this point, people would wonder where Sam is when reboot/remake comes around. So, at best, she'll have to be repurposed somehow; maybe make an actual goth, with some emo tendencies for good measure, and just have her show up early on in a way that basically forces her into the role of a reluctant friend. Then after she has been established for a few episodes, have reveal they actual did all meet in kindergarten or first grade, which could add some extra context to some early education events referenced, but just didn't click as friend material and went their separate ways before meeting back up at Casper High.
@@realJoeMavro Then who would be the third person in their trio? We do need some girls in the main cast.
I think writing Sam as a moral guidance to Danny like how Splinter is to the TMNT or something to that extent. Points out flaws that needs to be improved upon while also dealing with hers and how her relationship with Tucker and Danny improves her for the best.
The Val thing I'm not entirely sold on, but I can get behind a love triangle that can go longer than it did, maybe by helping all them to understand their flaws and their roles in the group while setting reasonable boundaries. Jazz should be included in the circle at some point as well.
Yeah I really feel like the show has GREAT potential as a true reboot, going for a more serious tone and a more consistent over arching plot, not as episodic. There's a lot of elements to make an amazing show if you made it a full reboot.
Sam is that punk rock kind of goth who says she's into the misfits, Danzig, and type o negative.....until she realizes those guys have right wing politics, made Christian side albums (Kryst the Konqueror), and in peter steel of Type o negative's case....was in a better band called carnivore with kick ass songs named "Male supremacy" which he reformed and toured with around the same time as his conversion to Catholicism right before passing away of heart failure.
I've seriously known punk goth hipsters that were devastated by these factoids. And it makes me laugh every time.
I like the format of this video. Going over your thoughts more than just an episode review.
I used to do this type of format all the time back in the Bojack Horseman days, but it takes a lot more work than episode reviews.
We have to continue the Shady’s most hated list. Shady, make a video covering Chloe. You know you want to.
Oh boy that would be a long video because I never liked Chloe. Looking through all the details you can find in game, Warren is a MUCH better and healthier partner for Max. Hell even if they just stayed friends it is better for Max than being friends with Chloe who actively drags her into bad decisions. People have made essays about her lousy character already so I don't need to.
If that wasn't enough, if for some reason you sacrificed everyone in Arcadia Bay for Chloe, she cheats on and leaves Max to be a thot. TERRIBLE!
@ Really? When did she cheat on Max??
@@Karlos1234ify during the time after they left Arcadia bay, I couldn’t believe Chloe would even cheat after everything max did for her.
@@omnipresentl1316Warren is a creep though. If you look in the beginning of episode 2 you can see him watching Max sleep.
... Chloe who? At first I thought we were talking about Fairly Oddparents Chloe, but now I have no idea.
7:58 I was folding laundry while listening to this video, and I had to pause that chore because of how hard I was laughing at this joke
I agree with you about the contrarian mentality, this is more common among female characters in media and they are encourage to be rebellious regardless of age(Grade school, Teenager, to adulthood) by others all to spite a lot of rules that make society function. Ever notice that?
Then they cry why men aren’t traditional. Ever notice them soapboxing but when gun to face, wah wah helpless girl help me. Fuck no, you deserve it.
It does make sense for how Sam acts towards others as both of her parents are controlling and wanted her to conform to what they deem as "appropriate". They wanted her to wear more bright girly colors and make friends with those who have similar opinions to them. You'd think over time in the show that maybe Sam would realize that she was acting just like her parents towards the ones she cares about.
Who here saw the fanart of Lucy Loud telling Sam, "You're not a goth, you're just a vegan dressed in black."?
Right here!
@@mitchfletcher2386 Same
6:08 in the character’s defense, everyone was awful to Danny in that episode for no reason!
She forced others to be like her despite her similar situation I should have KNOWN there was hypocrisy
This show needs a remake just to have it end better and to fix Sam
You are absolutely right my man
I don't trust modern writers to do it justice.
@AnimaVox_ yeah with monder writers they probably only make it way worst
maybe in another few years.
Or just have Danny end up with Valerie instead.
I like to pretend that Danny and Sam broke up somewhere in college and Danny got back together with Valerie because he had so much more chemistry with Valerie than he ever did with Sam. Sam always criticized him, puts him down, judges him, they don't have anything in common other than being the outcast but she puts herself in that while Danny didn't.
Hey Zany! Love your videos!
Do you imagine Sam still remained friends with Danny at least and managed to find another love interest down the line?
@@aertnadle2466 I would like for them to remain friends. Their break up would be mutual and I really can't see them as bitter ex's. But I can see Sam getting a new boyfriend or even a girlfriend after her break up with Danny.
Hailey from American Dad was a better version of Sam, sure she can be annoying and unreasonable but add least she didn't try to change other people's life styles because she believed her way was the best way.
Plus Hayley was funny.
@@mitchfletcher2386 Of course she's funny, she's part of the MacFarlane family
Don't forget is also called out for her bad behavior or actions.
@@mitchfletcher2386 Not really funny. Hayley was annoying.
@@JaxonHexwhich is what makes her even remotely redeemable compared to Sam who never gets called out for her b*******, The whole ghost problem is Sam's f****** fault if you think about it she essentially killed Danny That's why he's half ghost
Growing up wanting a Goth GF.
Being young is hoping to find a girl like Raven.
Growing up is realizing that most are Sam.
I've given up on relationships myself, they just aren't worth it.
Sam is a lot like Hermonie from Harry Potter. Just like Sam, Hermonie is an activist, organizing a campaign to free the house elves. Just like Sam, she's constantly getting on to the boys for their shortcomings while being an over-achiever. The only difference is Danny Phantom naively accepts Sam's behavior as a positive character trait, whereas in the Harry Potter books Hermonie's ego is clearly a flaw and her friends all take a dim view of her moral crusade. Hermonie also has the upshot of being the most competent member of the Golden Trio in *book learning* but struggling to accept anything that exists outside of the narrow confines of what she's studied (for example when she was completely unfamiliar with Beedle the Bard, but Ron knew exactly who he was right away), whereas Sam is just a flat character who is good at everything and never has to learn or grow.
Edit: Dipper/Pacifica didn't fail Shady, Pacifica was totally waiting for Dipper to return the next summer.
My main problem with Sam Manson is that she is a hypocritical liberal soapbox activist character who preaches individuality, but forces her ideologies onto others with no choices. Plus she gets jealous pretty easily over Danny liking another girl. Also you notice a pattern of how liberal women on tv shows throughout the years has this wannabe rebellious streak to get a rise out of the men in her family and life? (Gloria Bunker, Lisa Simpson. Hayley Smith, Sam Manson and more).
Lisa goes through phases, that's not her entire personality like Sam or Hayley.
Good point
@@AsdfGhjkl-bd5mh But Lisa does not learn, she is the same hypocritical soapbox.
@@AsdfGhjkl-bd5mh You're sure about that? Lisa being a hypocrite and yelling at anyone else who does not go along with her ideologies is a huge part of her personality.
Hey, remember how mad she got when Danny was dating Valrie?
And then how mad she got when Danny was keeping an eye on the guy she was dating, despite the mountain of coincidences giving him more of a reason to be suspicious? (A forging exchange student shows up right as The Guys in White ramp up their presence in Amity?)
I used to be for Danny and Sam until i rewatched the entire show about 2 years ago. The part that will always stick out to me about her character that made me dislike her is when Danny went back to being normal in the last episode and her line was on the order of, "I liked you because you were different and fun, but now you're regular and boring." Not the fact that it was causing him stress and making his personal life miserable. Not because it was greatly putting his life in danger so many times, and sometimes his friends, so why wouldn't he want to. None of that, just he's wants to be normal that is now a problem.
But to be fair, i'm not sure if this is a problem with her specifically or the show itself trying to make a subtle commentary on society at the teenage age. Most of the characters are selfish and inconsiderate, almost to a point where it feels intentional. It's always one that I have been conflicted with because i'm not sure if it is just social commentary or bad writing from an adult lense.
Babe wake up shady doorags uploaded and he’s talking about a goth girl!
Nah, he's talking about a vegan
in black
@@EXPT-19 I see you've seen the fanart!
Funny thing was I liked Val more than Sam when I was a kid, and still kinda do. Couldn't tell you why back then, but now I can.
1.) Apparently, I have a thing for darker women.
2.) Sam sucks like a vacuum with a busted off switch. Like, how many times had Valerie caused a ghost problem because she just couldn't leave well enough alone? Plus, Val like Danny for Danny. Sam liked Danny because, as the show stated, he wasn't like any other guy.
Especially stronger woman
Notice how she immediately loses attraction for Danny when he when he becomes a regular guy, proving Sam doesn't like Danny for Danny he got to be unique he can't just be Danny
12:00 with how sexual beauty pageants are, they definitely shouldn't exist if they let minors in. TLC's toddlers and tiaras is more than enough to convince you of this. I wish that Danny Phantom could've highlighted this, especially because they don't have real minors in it unlike the cuties movie. But also it's network TV and you can't do stuff like that in a dumb action comedy (I love the series, but I know what it is).
I really want your review of Manny Rivera after this, too.
Yeah, if this was a Toddlers and Tiaras situation, I would SO be on Sam's side.
But as is, I'm sorry Sam, no. I get it when I was your age, I too hated the idea of pageants (still kinda do), but just because it's not our thing doesn't it being others' is a problem. It's definitely not our job to dictate the hobbies or pastimes of others.
@EvieRawlings it's not as bad, but it's still high schoolers in that position. The cartoon definitely reflects how sexual beauty pageants actually are, obviously. So any minors involved at all should stop pageants, but that's also not Sam's criticism. She's against pageants for the wrong reason.
@ Agree. If this episode was more about that (like that episode of Proud Family "Hop-Hop Helicopter) it would've been a lot better. And a lot more needed. As pagents with minors aren't okay.
But the episode (for obvious reasons) isn't exploitative nor references that, so it's just Sam being judgy for no valid reason.
True, but that’s not Sam’s position. Her position was “it’s superficial therefore bad”. It’s a position on pagents very popular in the 2000’s, even ones where everyone was an adult.
She said it was stupid, not that it’s wrong. So while yes it being taken down because it’s wrong does meet her goal, she’s still wrong in why.
It’s basically getting the right answer using the wrong formula, and arguing because the answer is right your reasoning is too.
NOO, IT'S JOHN REDCORN ALL OVER AGAIN
I believe that Sam gets away with all of this because she's a main character, but not THE main character. If she were the main character, the one with the powers and abilities, then the writers would've had to make her experience punishment. If she never faced punishment then the show would, most likely, not done even a quarter as well as it did. Sam is a Mary Sue, can do no wrong, can do anything, and faces no backlash for her actions, the only reason she gets away with it all, is because at the end of the day she doesn't have all the fancy and flashy effects that Danny has.
If Danny's friends didn't know his secret, he could of dated Sam as Danny, and Paulina or val as Phantom really
bad idea
I think they would have found out
But Paulina was willing after finding out who he was that episode his identity revealed
@@Dr.GregHouseYeah but it would of been interesting and entertaining
That secret wouldn't have lasted.
I mean...
Look at Spider-man.
My thing is why are they worrying about what Danny is doing? They need to mind their business.
Also, if you want a good example of "I'm not like other girls", I feel like Claire from Trollhunters is a good one. Her character tends to be inconsistent and sometimes frustrating. She even has one line where she states she's not really friends with the other girls in her school, but then is constantly seen hanging out with them.
I'll have to rewatch that because I don't remember her being like that.
@@zacharybartolo5111 She has her issues, but honestly it all boils down to opinion and I just have a negative opinion of her. I don't want people who like her to feel like they're being attacked.
That being said, this is my list of issues with her:
- Was upset with Jim for trying to defend himself when the alternative was getting punched in the face by Steve.
- Went to the Papa Skull concert WITH THE GUY WHO PHYSICALLY SHOVED HER.
- Stalked Jim by breaking into his house when she had no reason to other than "no one went to his supposed party at her house" (which there's a million reasons why).
- She dresses like a punk but she's a straight-A student with a loving family (and I hate the stupid design of all the hair clips in her bangs).
- I'll have to find the episode but I remember her distinctly telling Jim that she didn't really like the other girls from her school as much (or wasn't good friends with them or something like that) but then hangs out with Mary and Darci constantly, as mentioned before.
There's that, and then there's the issue with her being a massive Mary-Sue and hijacking the Wizards narrative away from Douxie, who's SUPPOSED to be the main character.
@ I'm not trying to say you're not valid in your opinion (sorry if that came off that way), it's just been so long since I've watched Trollhunters that I don't remember her that well. So I can't agree or disagree with you. I remember liking her well enough, but other than what she became I just don't remember much of what she offered other than being a love interest.
@ Oh no, I didn't mean to say that you were implying that! I just meant more that I have a very strongly negative (and unpopular) opinion on Claire, but I know it's very unpopular so I want people to know I always mean it more personally rather than stating it as fact.
Yeah, it was like the show tried to have it both ways with her, first, she was the popular girl outside of Jim's league, but then. "Oh no I am a looser outsider too, just like you guys. I'm so relatable."
When clearly... She isn't! Claire was popular. The most popular girl in school that all the girls wanted to be around and all the boys wanted to date... And that's okay! You can be popular and nice. Heck, would be nice if she was popular BECAUSE she was nice and caring. That would be a nice switch of tropes.
But yeah, they wanted it both ways. Fortunately, as the show progressed her character did improve as she got to stand on her own and have her own problems not tied to her popularity status.
Shady, I greatly appreciate your reviews and your values. It is genuinely refreshing to see a good man who’s willing to deeply reflect and put out a thoughtful analysis. Jokes aside, you made some very poignant points and I hadn’t thought about the media’s silence on “being average” that way before. It’s a refreshing perspective and really makes me contemplate how other “I’m special cause I’m different” characters were handled.
So happy another video, tough day. Still gonna preach for Bob’s Burgers!
Just one episode!
Keep on preaching about Bob's Burgers bro!
30:05 Uh, actually regarding Gravity Falls it’s sorta hinted by the staff they’d go back to that in the future. Plus, the comic actually confirms Pacifica did have a thing for Dipper. Whether it last? Eh, no clue.
Pretty sure in the Book of Bill there's a part with some of Dipper's thoughts that shows he has a crush on Pacifica. I think Alex Hirsch genuinely likes this couple
Yeah...
Danny doesn't have the best of friends.
They both risk their lives every episode to help him
@@keandregreen5628that doesn't make them good friends.
@@keandregreen5628they also abuse his trust and good nature and use him to get things they want a lot, tucker literally asked him to use his powers to let him date grape a girl and has had several unsettling other moments.
@@keandregreen5628after they created that avoidable mistake in the first place. Especially Sam.
Watching this video and getting this perspective on Sam made me realise how much of her I tuned out when I was younger.
I had a sibling who was like this growing up and I would constantly tune out all the stuff that annoyed me just so we could get along until this phase passed.
It became a really handy coping mechanism because I can switch it on for just about any annoying trope or personality trait.
It's funny with some of these points you brought up, cause I recall Butch Hartman doing a drawing stream where he designed the Danny Phantom characters like 10 years in the future and with Sam he described her as someone who melds into whatever the popular counter-culture is and made her into a full-on hipster. So the creators were at least aware and purposeful with this aspect of Sam's character, they just kind of never did anything with it.
The only comment I have is that they could have all gone to the same schools but only started hanging out with each other around 8th grade. This explains the recent friendship and how tucker could have thrown up in her back pack and blamed it on another student
Fair
I’m glad you brought up Miraculous because I was watching the show recently and I had a problem with Chloes’s character development. It felt like she was going to get a redemption but the show completely backpedaled
Apparently, Thomas Astruc based a bunch of characters off some people he knew back from school (Apparently Marinette is his potential daughter with a girl he had a crush on, so he and said girl are basically Mari's parents) and Chloe was based on one of his bullies.
Her short-lived redemption arc was written by someone else until Thomas vetoed it by Season 3, saying that she's incapable of changing.
My friend who's super into Miraculous has repeatedly said they'll never forgive Thomas Astruc for what he did to Chloe's character.
Now THIS is a Superbowl Halftime Show 🏈
Idk why but I find it funny how Jazz felt like she had more character development then the actual Main casts
You should've brought up her wanting Danny to blow up the parking lot of BMWs, but also criticize him for using his powers to get back at Dash. Defending yourself is bad, but property damage and potential casualties is ok in her book.
Hey now! This is about Sam Manson being a flawed character and writers pet. You leave Cat Noir's damseled, tied up, Beaten Up, Hypnotized self out of this.
Many fans see Sam's hypocrisy. And what you've highlighted here about Danny and Sam's 'Ship' is just like what they did with Ben "Ben 10" Tennyson and Kai Green in 'Ben 10: Omniverse'.
I believe what i heard happened with Kai was at somepoint i think like in the og ben10 they implied ben was going to marry her in the future and they didn't want to retcon that so they kinda just squished every other relationship set up Ben had while trying to build her up more last min.
@@rdogg114 It was fucking pop-up.... Ben's end-game lover.... was decided by a pop-up
Ben 10 in general never had the best romance writing, imo. Most shows don't, tbf. I can only name a handful of canon ships I've ever liked.
@@AnimaVox_I’m mean they are 10. Not saying Kai was good, but I wouldn’t expect anything super complex
@@bbhjvvbfhvv3357 Yeah, I get that. But this is why I prefer no romance over bad romance. If it doesn't add to the story, don't include it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Sam threw away her goth vegan personality if that became the new mainstream
She 100% would with zero hesitation. She's (ironically) *THAT* shallow.
It's pretty wild that they got the archetype so spot-on a decade before it entered the public consciousness.
A decade? Try two.
Throwing in that "Dear Princess Celestia... I didn't learn anything!" From AJ was perfect lol.
Everyone should despise Sam. She was a poorly written character who only really cared about herself, trying to make people conform to her way and only her way, and it's always been implied that she only loved Danny because of his powers. That's why I'm glad the writers, after the series ended, gave some backstory to Ember, showing that when she was alive that she pretty much went through the same type of bullying that Danny did. Add the fact that she has a canonical crush on Danny, who can actually build something between them. It also helps that unlike Sam, who only loves Phantom, or Valerie, who only loves Fenton, Ember knows and loves BOTH sides of Danny.
Ember has a crush on Danny? Huh, that's actually really interesting.
Since when does Ember somehow love Danny? She's always been an enemy to him in all her appearences.
@@aertnadle2466 crush, not love. These are two different things.
@ Yeah, but the OP claims Ember loves Danny so I responded to that.
@@aertnadle2466 Ember having a crush on Danny has been canon for a long time now. And does it really matter if she's an "enemy". That graphic novel you seem to love so much redeems Vlad and Dan Phantom, even though the show itself has shown multiple times that they're irredeemable. Of the three of them, Ember is the only one who has the best chance of redemption given what her true motives are compared to Vlad and Dan.
By the way, if you ever decide to make another video regarding Danny Phantom, I would love to have it be about Jazz. Valerie is great but Jazz’s character development is so good and she became my favorite character with how much she’s gone through.
Sam Manson is so bad that not even Rebeltaxi wants her and dude simps for goths like an Italian man eating Pizza
I don't think anyone likes contrarians, I think contrarians despise contrarians.
I don’t know about that
Contrarians love contrarians, and we will continue to do so until everybody else loves them too.
Should have known Life Is Tumblr would host your most hated character.
30:07 Oh man, yeah Tai and Sora not working out never make a lick of sense. If it makes you feel better, I think is heavily imply in outside material that Dipper and Pacifica would eventually be a thing.
From digimon? I absolutely agree. Sarah and Matt together came out of nowhere.
There was no chemistry between them.
On your second point, I'm pretty sure everyone and their mom are sure on Dipper and Pacifica being a couple in the future. If anything, we just saw the foundation of that happening in the show.
Apparently, that was always one of the writer's (I don't it it was the head writer) plan for Matt and Sora to be a couple, even before the 02 epologue or even 02.
He said he wasn't a fan of the main boy and main girl getting together. My biggest problem is dubbed or subbed I don't remember Matt and Sora interacting that much until it was mentioned in 02. The only thing that came to my mind was Matt helping Sora out of her own depression spiral like he did, and that just came across as a friend helping a friend.
I have a dark feeling Shady was forced against his will recently to watch Velma. Poor guy.
The thing I hate most about contrarians is they prefer the franchises they like to stay small rather then grow.
I understand wanting to support what's less popular but wanting it to stay unpopular is terrible.
They don't realize the irony that if something doesn't grow its unlikely to stay relevant enough to last.
Its disgusting when people act like they have the right to decide who is worthy of having the same interest as them.
Typically when things grow and become more mainstream they also get watered down to appeal to a broader audience. They then lose what made them special to the original fan base.
Eh, this argument feels shallow. Some art-projects are allowed to remain in their own niche. Mainly because some art is subjective and won't appeal to most people. I can tell you not everyone is gonna be into David Lynch projects (RIP).
I would actually have liked if they continue Tucker having interest in Valerie originally
She also fits the "idiot activist" trope
Couple that with her being a culture tourist.
You know how long I been waitin' fo' this?
Hoo, ah'm boutta make a NAME for mahself heah!
I want to know what the writing process was for Sam’s character. Butch is an easy target but I wonder if he made it so Sam only got a slap on the wrist for all her bad choices and basically winning Danny in the end. She always had annoying qualities but it becomes infuriating when the creators clearly favor that character, making it so they’re always in the right. Sam’s rant in Phantom Planet still haunts me.
Also whether they knew they were cooking more with Val lol
Okay, I love this video and felt so much validation.
Also, I KNOW I didn't see Zutara in this video. I'm watching you, Shady. Still love ya, though! Look forward to the next video.
I remember thinking as a teen how annoying Sam was but couldn't figure out why. This makes a lot of sense.
The criticism about Sam was very interesting, not because it made me hate Sam (I don't hate any character in Danny Phantom) but because it made me think a lot more about this character
When I was a high schooler, I was king of non canon ships.
Using Velma as a rule of 3 was hilarious
Your sentiment towards the end reminds me of my journey with a particular anime and its main character that I had... Years of anger and rage... Then over a decade later, I'm reviewing the show as an adult , acknowledge what's an objective flaw, and what was just a subjective issue that I took. This resulted in me being able to talk about it, where instead of complaining and whining as I would long ago, I'm delivering more thoughtful criticism that even fans of the series seem to understand. It's really nice when confronting something that we claim to hate can lead to more nuance.
What was the Anime and who was the character?
@@JarenLemon The anime is Yu-Gi-Oh GX, and the character is Jaden Yuki, the happy protagonist of the series. I'm covering the show season-by-season, and will premiere the review of the final season this very Saturday. Personal bias made me despise the protagonist, but now I see what the creators were going for, appreciate the good ideas that they came up with, all while critiquing what actually went wrong.
The one thing that annoyed me about valerie was during the flour sac episode. That comment, "That's cause you didn't get to know me," ticked me off. She says that like she hasn't been bullying him. She gave him the image that he has of her.
That episode should have been a lesson for both. Yet Danny is the only one expected to grow and learn.
Yeah, that episode annoys me too.
Valorie doesn't communicate to Danny and then blames him for not communicating to her when all he wanted was for her to do her half of the work. Valorie also doesn't HAVE to fight ghosts, but she acts like Danny should respect her for prioritizing her ghost fighting job that he knows nothing about. Also also, Valorie is rude to Danny while she's in her Nasty Burger costume, but the episode acts like Danny was a jerk to her first when at the moment, he was angry for a lot of reasons and was doing his best to properly respond.
Overall, it's an episode that's very unfair to both Danny and Tucker.
If you want a show that has not one, not two, but three shining examples of "not like other girls" girls, look no further than Ruby Gloom. We have Ruby: the so-called "Happiest girl" who shines brightest when things are bleakest, Misery: a walking bad luck magnet who will gladly take all the slings and arrows of the world to keep them from touching her friends, and Iris: the ultimate adrenaline junkie who'll run into a burning building for her friends and run back in for fun.
But I think part of 'Not like Other girls" is said girl is irritating and unlikable. Which absolutely ISN'T how Ruby Gloom is.
@@NEEDbacon I meant "not like other girls" in a more literal sense rather than the stereotype.
I knew I had a reason I didn't like her as a kid 😭😭 she was literally so annoying when I first watched her, and just as annoying on re-watch. She's literally the definition of a mix between a pick me girl and a "I'm not like other girls! 😜" girl
He shoulda stuck with the litteral dragon. Everyone wants that loyal dragon wife
Happy 10th anniversary for that photo!
"Why do MY SHIPS not get cannon? Am i cursed?!" *shows Zutara and Difica pictures*
Me: 🤣🤣 Me too, bro. Me too....!
Plus there's a huge difference between a tomboy vs a girl who is athletic. Sam did have some athletic personalities to her.
Still Danny should be able to run circles around her given his ghost fighting. Tucker being an out of shape geek I could buy. But Sam being more athletic than a superhero? No way.
@@SkylineFTW97 Athleticism is irrelevant when you're a ghost, or a human with ghost powers.
@@realJoeMavro Powers or not, he has to have stamina and strength to do what he does as much as he does. No way it's not boosting his endurance.
@@SkylineFTW97This is the very start of the girl boss era, of course she is going to be better.
@@havingfun-u4g Do you think that the competent girl trope needs to die because it is too close in Mary sue level of character writing?
One of the only things I like about Sam is the fact that like Gwen from Total Drama she is a goth that didn't act like a clichie goth.
It's annoying that some people think being goth means you have to be depressed all the time.
I like how she doesn't let her wealth define her.
lol her wealth does define her. it costs a lot of money to be able to go off the grid or not participate in DA SYSTEM. you see dirty hippies all the time pretending to not have money. the actual poor people have to work/hustle to survive.
I mean, she kinda does. Just in the form of doing the exact opposite. She is very superficial.
Difference was Gwen was okay with doing things that could be considered popular.
Example when she and Jeff were paired up. Gwen accused him of being the type to never invite her to a party. Jeff said he would but she just didn't come off as someone who would enjoy it. She admits she wouldn't know because she's never been invited to one and admitted it might be easier if she was just like other girls. Jeff offers to invite her to the biggest bash ever and Gwen accepts. Heck, she even embraces some of Jeff's outgoing traits near the end of the episode and they had a pretty wholesome friendship.
Does anyon see Sam like this? Not exactly.
To add on to the beauty pageant tangent, a lot of pageants offer money/scholarships which a lot people depend on.
Due to nostalgia I can't fully hate Sam, but I can't defend her at all, she's even worse than I remember, a possible defense is that some of the crappy things she does are things the writers are doing for throwaway jokes without really thinking of the implications for the character, the menu change in the first episode for example, it feels like something the writers did because they thought it would make for a funny plot without even really considering how insanely entitled and douchey it is, it's a problem I notice in a lot comedy/action cartoons, obviously not all the shitty things Sam does fall under that category, but I think it does cover some of the really weird over the top stuff.
It’s the double standards. Bratty, entitled bitchy girls are brave!/s