The amount of trauma in the fleet is enormous. And there is no relief. People have a breaking point. Everyone in the fleet would need some form of counseling, and there is none.
Boxing was actually really some kind of tradition on American and British navy ships, as a form of recreation, morale boosting, entertainment and conflict resolution, just like in this episode.
I don't think she loves chaos as much as doesn't know how to live outside of it. And she got scared with the idea of settling in with Lee, os she took the escape hatch with Anders.
Very memorable episode. Somewhat divisive, but a favorite among many. I really enjoyed going back to New Caprica, in sunnier and mostly happier days. Loved seeing Ellen again.
Lee and Kara…a perfectly normal, healthy, loving relationship. Nothing toxic here, no sir! 😏 I did really appreciate seeing more of New Caprica before everything went to shit tho. There was a bit of…hopefulness to it at the start.
What's strange to ponder is that marriage is almost meaningless in the social construct of this show. It's not like you're going to buy a home together, pursue career goals, file joint taxes, share the cost of existence, etc. Basically, you get upgraded quarters once you're married is all. But if you split up, no need for lawyers, no assets to divide.... no home to sell, etc.
As for New Caprica, I'm sure they floated the idea of a spinoff series about building a new life and exploring a new planet, complete with discovering new species, maybe even intelligent life, etc. But they couldn't have Adama in that endeavor... Edward James Olmos had already promised to walk away from this show forever if they introduced any kind of alien life. When they first approached him with the initial screenplays, plot and character plans, and long-term plans for seasonal arcs, he looked the project over and told them they had penned a great saga... a wonderfully human story. And he signed on to play Adama with one caveat. He told them the day he arrived on set to find extras dressed as little green men... would be his last day. He promised he would turn on his heel and walk off set, and they'd never see him again. He said he would stay as long as it was a human drama. There was no way he was sticking around for some kind of Star Trek spinoff.
Thats why starbuck was hesitant to call Lee to get the antibiotics for Anders and Tigh told her what happened between the 2 of them was a long time ago.
In a strange way, this is the flip side to the dreary condition we saw the new colony on New Caprica in the previous season . There everything looked like shit, and we all blamed Baltar . This episode gives a look at a better beginning, a happier start . Yet it also shows some of the seeds of discontent that flourished later on , and it's another great part of the wrap up of the New Caprica story arc .
I really like this episode. It filled in a lot of gaps they didn't have time for in the New Caprica arc and let's us move forward with a more complete picture. I think there's an argument to be made that it's at the wrong place in the season, but I still enjoy it.
So now we’ve finally come to it: the definitive proof that Saul and Ellen had the healthiest marriage of the show. I miss Ellen so much. Only she could find a margarita in a makeshift settlement with no real buildings. Unrelated but I’m sort of surprised no one challenged Athena. You’d think someone would be curious how they’d do against a Cylon.
23:05, at this point why are Anders and Dualla even bothering to hang around? I would feel embarrassed as heck. No way I would make a public spectacle like this in front of my wife. I forgot how toxic their relationship is...still ship them though.
I do love this show, but I've never been crazy about the melodrama. Anders knew what kind of woman he married, and Dee knew what kind of man she married. I never felt bad for any of them.
At least that's a decent reason not to care 😂😂I didn't care for anders and dee from the start. Especially Dee cause it was like she came out of left field as a relationship for Lee. I was always pissed that they had to make kara and Lee messier by adding them to the mix. They were already messy enough
If you grew up in a small town even a hundred years ago you more than likely were married to a distant relative of yours, and there's only 40k in the fleet. And nobody else being found.
@johnmcternan4157 That is all well and good. Doen't make it any less wierd. I am not from a small town thank heven and over sixty, so I do know a thing or two about human relations.
I dont think I'd call it a filler. I see it as one of several episodes exploring the aftermath of New Caprica. I love it for all the N C flashback scenes, but the Lee/Kara stuff gets more uncomfortable with each viewing. As for why Starbuck went straight off to marry Anders the next morning, I read it as her having very low self esteem (despite all the bravado) and deliberately choosing to self sabotage. Causing and living in chaos means she can avoid exposing what she is really feeling.
Filler as in it doesn't move the plot forward but we get our characters fleshed out a little. Unless.....we're going to see this lee/kara/anders/dee storyline for a while. She's a chaos....monger.
This the Battlestar we deserve, but not the Battlestar we wanted. This one is a turning point episode in the vein of the episode Download. Neither episode in the moment feels like the monumental shift they bring to the show. I'm all for it. It returns to a central theme in the show where Athena replies to Adama: Are humans worthy of survival? It's a brave thing to write a series and portray the characters in an unflattering light. Quite the opposite of say, The Expanse where every scene and line of dialogue is written to make the characters more endearing than the last. One steady upward arc. Here, the characters we love in one set of circumstance becomes a character we shun in the next. Save one or two examples, all the major players have taken a turn we hate. It is what defines them as human and separate from the Cylon models. Humans f up. A sizeable part of the fan base would have preferred a more "Expanse" like take on the series. Less drama. Less grey among the cast. Just Starbuck and Lee jumping into Vipers doing retina detaching moves to save the Fleet from marauding Robots. That's what we wanted. This is what we deserved. Looking back on it, there was no way for anything other than Unfinished Business to have happened. In the two seasons long flight from eminent death at the hands of the Cylons there was never a moment for Kara or Lee to wok through their feelings about each other. The love each other but the complications of rank and the entanglement of Zack never allowed for those feelings to be anything other than submerged. Given a year's time free of the Cylon threat, the feelings suddenly have a chance to bubble to the surface. Kara and Anders relationship was more an emotional high, driven by the high energy of finding solace with another person in the face of hiding behind enemy lines. Take away the enemy and the wave of emotions come down quite a bit. Enough for her to realize her initial feelings for Lee was stronger. A bitter pill because it also comes into conflict with her more conservative faith. She tries going with social norms and picked Anders. Only to find even that wasn't enough. A complicated mess. And who hasn't been rebuffed only to turn around and grab hard at the next person that comes along just because? It's a very human response and Lee does just that. Unlike the "filler" episodes that are soon to follow, this episode sets the table for things to come. These are all pieces being put on the board...for some fine, fine drama that will come. After we deal with the filler episodes. Things are about to get wild.
I'll be honest. I was pretty annoyed with that storyline until you explained it like that. We're not always so heroic and intelligent. I will say though, some of our main characters need serious therapy compared to the rest and might not be the majority when taking the question "are humans worthy of survival" into account.
The amount of trauma in the fleet is enormous. And there is no relief. People have a breaking point. Everyone in the fleet would need some form of counseling, and there is none.
Looks like we found a demand for a therapist. There has to be at least 1 person in this fleet....surely?
Boxing was actually really some kind of tradition on American and British navy ships, as a form of recreation, morale boosting, entertainment and conflict resolution, just like in this episode.
I don't think she loves chaos as much as doesn't know how to live outside of it.
And she got scared with the idea of settling in with Lee, os she took the escape hatch with Anders.
That is insanely messed up....and you're 100% right.
Very memorable episode. Somewhat divisive, but a favorite among many.
I really enjoyed going back to New Caprica, in sunnier and mostly happier days. Loved seeing Ellen again.
Lee and Kara…a perfectly normal, healthy, loving relationship. Nothing toxic here, no sir! 😏
I did really appreciate seeing more of New Caprica before everything went to shit tho. There was a bit of…hopefulness to it at the start.
What's strange to ponder is that marriage is almost meaningless in the social construct of this show. It's not like you're going to buy a home together, pursue career goals, file joint taxes, share the cost of existence, etc. Basically, you get upgraded quarters once you're married is all. But if you split up, no need for lawyers, no assets to divide.... no home to sell, etc.
There has to be a new word invented for the kind of toxic here.😂
As for New Caprica, I'm sure they floated the idea of a spinoff series about building a new life and exploring a new planet, complete with discovering new species, maybe even intelligent life, etc.
But they couldn't have Adama in that endeavor... Edward James Olmos had already promised to walk away from this show forever if they introduced any kind of alien life.
When they first approached him with the initial screenplays, plot and character plans, and long-term plans for seasonal arcs, he looked the project over and told them they had penned a great saga... a wonderfully human story.
And he signed on to play Adama with one caveat. He told them the day he arrived on set to find extras dressed as little green men... would be his last day. He promised he would turn on his heel and walk off set, and they'd never see him again. He said he would stay as long as it was a human drama. There was no way he was sticking around for some kind of Star Trek spinoff.
Not the most action-packed episode, but I'd trade half a dozen space battles for more of Roslin and Adama getting stoned.
💯😂. One of the best bits of the episode.
Thats why starbuck was hesitant to call Lee to get the antibiotics for Anders and Tigh told her what happened between the 2 of them was a long time ago.
Aaaaaahhhhh good catch.
In a strange way, this is the flip side to the dreary condition we saw the new colony on New Caprica in the previous season .
There everything looked like shit, and we all blamed Baltar .
This episode gives a look at a better beginning, a happier start .
Yet it also shows some of the seeds of discontent that flourished later on , and it's another great part of the wrap up of the New Caprica story arc .
I really like this episode. It filled in a lot of gaps they didn't have time for in the New Caprica arc and let's us move forward with a more complete picture. I think there's an argument to be made that it's at the wrong place in the season, but I still enjoy it.
Where would you put it? At the beginning with all the other New Caprica episodes?
So now we’ve finally come to it: the definitive proof that Saul and Ellen had the healthiest marriage of the show.
I miss Ellen so much. Only she could find a margarita in a makeshift settlement with no real buildings.
Unrelated but I’m sort of surprised no one challenged Athena. You’d think someone would be curious how they’d do against a Cylon.
😂Bring her back
@RamblersInc As long as our BAC is above zero, the spirit of Ellen will live on.
23:05, at this point why are Anders and Dualla even bothering to hang around? I would feel embarrassed as heck. No way I would make a public spectacle like this in front of my wife. I forgot how toxic their relationship is...still ship them though.
Who do we blame here? Lee and Kara? Or Dee and Anders? Or all of them?
I do love this show, but I've never been crazy about the melodrama. Anders knew what kind of woman he married, and Dee knew what kind of man she married. I never felt bad for any of them.
At least that's a decent reason not to care 😂😂I didn't care for anders and dee from the start. Especially Dee cause it was like she came out of left field as a relationship for Lee. I was always pissed that they had to make kara and Lee messier by adding them to the mix. They were already messy enough
Turned into a reality TV show for a second.
Of couse it's weird. Kara was almost Lee's sister in law, she would have been if his brother had lived.
🤢
If you grew up in a small town even a hundred years ago you more than likely were married to a distant relative of yours, and there's only 40k in the fleet. And nobody else being found.
@johnmcternan4157 That is all well and good. Doen't make it any less wierd. I am not from a small town thank heven and over sixty, so I do know a thing or two about human relations.
Oh yeah, FightFucking's a real thing...
😂
I dont think I'd call it a filler. I see it as one of several episodes exploring the aftermath of New Caprica. I love it for all the N C flashback scenes, but the Lee/Kara stuff gets more uncomfortable with each viewing.
As for why Starbuck went straight off to marry Anders the next morning, I read it as her having very low self esteem (despite all the bravado) and deliberately choosing to self sabotage. Causing and living in chaos means she can avoid exposing what she is really feeling.
Filler as in it doesn't move the plot forward but we get our characters fleshed out a little. Unless.....we're going to see this lee/kara/anders/dee storyline for a while.
She's a chaos....monger.
Actor who played Helo is a former Canadian amateur boxer.
He looks it
This the Battlestar we deserve, but not the Battlestar we wanted. This one is a turning point episode in the vein of the episode Download. Neither episode in the moment feels like the monumental shift they bring to the show. I'm all for it. It returns to a central theme in the show where Athena replies to Adama: Are humans worthy of survival? It's a brave thing to write a series and portray the characters in an unflattering light. Quite the opposite of say, The Expanse where every scene and line of dialogue is written to make the characters more endearing than the last. One steady upward arc. Here, the characters we love in one set of circumstance becomes a character we shun in the next. Save one or two examples, all the major players have taken a turn we hate. It is what defines them as human and separate from the Cylon models. Humans f up. A sizeable part of the fan base would have preferred a more "Expanse" like take on the series. Less drama. Less grey among the cast. Just Starbuck and Lee jumping into Vipers doing retina detaching moves to save the Fleet from marauding Robots. That's what we wanted. This is what we deserved.
Looking back on it, there was no way for anything other than Unfinished Business to have happened. In the two seasons long flight from eminent death at the hands of the Cylons there was never a moment for Kara or Lee to wok through their feelings about each other. The love each other but the complications of rank and the entanglement of Zack never allowed for those feelings to be anything other than submerged. Given a year's time free of the Cylon threat, the feelings suddenly have a chance to bubble to the surface. Kara and Anders relationship was more an emotional high, driven by the high energy of finding solace with another person in the face of hiding behind enemy lines. Take away the enemy and the wave of emotions come down quite a bit. Enough for her to realize her initial feelings for Lee was stronger. A bitter pill because it also comes into conflict with her more conservative faith. She tries going with social norms and picked Anders. Only to find even that wasn't enough. A complicated mess.
And who hasn't been rebuffed only to turn around and grab hard at the next person that comes along just because? It's a very human response and Lee does just that. Unlike the "filler" episodes that are soon to follow, this episode sets the table for things to come. These are all pieces being put on the board...for some fine, fine drama that will come. After we deal with the filler episodes. Things are about to get wild.
I'll be honest. I was pretty annoyed with that storyline until you explained it like that. We're not always so heroic and intelligent. I will say though, some of our main characters need serious therapy compared to the rest and might not be the majority when taking the question "are humans worthy of survival" into account.
Lee and Kara were the couple I shipped for all throughout the show. But unfortunately it wasn't to be. 😞
Sooooo......they don't end up together?
Not my fav episode