As a son of Preston, I have two emotive memories - one of Tom Finney playing at Deepdale - the other, the TSR2 flying overhead. I remember the Labour candidate for the up-coming election, standing on a trailer, appealing to hundreds of aircraft workers at BAC's English Electric's works in Preston, 'Vote for me lads...your jobs will be safe!' Within weeks the TSR2 was cancelled. Many of the men were laid off - many ended up at Boeing in Seattle. As for the Labour man - he got voted in, but he dared not show his face in Preston for many months to come.The TSR2 saga still has a strong resonance to the people of Preston. Mythical in its proportions, the sorry tale is being handed down to the younger generations of Preston like one of Aesop's fables. To those who were present at the time - it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth and an inherent mistrust of politicians - no matter the colour of their party.
I was on a gliding course in the midlands during the late 1980's. One morning fog descended over the airfield rendering at least part of the day un-flyable. Our instructor suggested at trip to Cosford for the morning until the fog cleared so we all climbed into his Volvo and headed for the museum. It was here I first saw this simply awesome machine standing silent yet somehow proud. I'll never forget that morning, truely awesome and at the same time deeply tragic.
Superb tribute indeed...how gorgeous is that and to think it's almost 50 years ago...incredible the talent on those BAC drawing boards all those years ago
I wasn’t old enough to see the tsr2 fly but thanks to my service at RAF Cosford I can say I’ve touch her and spent time around her even went to collect her exhaust pipes from Shoeburyness many many moons ago.
Thank you for all your comments about this video, I'm made up so many of you enjoy it and respect what the many thousands of highly skilled engineers and designers were capable of doing without a single computer back when it really was only slide rules and pencils. Every time I see a Tornado or Typhoon strutting their stuff I wonder what could have been. No wait, what should have been... and it brings a lump to my throat and a tear to my eye. Amen.
The music brought a tear to my eye. This plane SHOULD have been the greatest strike/ground attack plane of its era. We Brits have cobbled some amazing aircraft together in our time. TSR2, Lightning, Buccaneer, Hunter, Canberra, Victor, Vulcan, Harrier. The Lynx and Merlin (part British) helicopters
I went to RAF Cosford last June. I hired a car at great expense, just to go and see this beautiful aircraft. When I got to it, I just stood there, crying. It hurts so much to know that we are capable of building such beauty and power, yet politically, we never get it right.
I am a member of a museum dedicated to the USAAF in the UK and was told by a visitor that helped to build TSR 2 that it was scrapped by the request of the USA as at that time nothing could touch it in performance even more of a travesty we ended up buying Phantom,s from the USA. At one time no one could best us at design and production of aircraft military or civil. Nice video,RIP TSR 2.
Oh man this is a fantastic video. Really nice job. I was lucky enough to have met Roly Beamont at a TSR2 lecture in the mid 90s. Sadly he died in 2001. He was such a nice man and was great to talk to. I asked him out of everything he'd flown, what was his favourite? He said he was lucky enough to fly some of the most amazing aircraft, but without a doubt his favourite was the Hawker Hurricane, because she was a lady, and always brought you home! The man is a legend !
Regarding radar, the US Army Signal Corps also started developing radar as early as 1930. In 1935, tests on microwave propagation tests using the German radar inventor Hollmann built valves, RCA magnetron operating at 9 cm, RCA acorn valves were performed. In 1937 the test radar unit was demonstrated. Based on this test unit, in 1940, the SCR-270 became available for coastal defense and it was first deployed in Panama in the Fall of 1940 as an early warning for the Air Corps, Pursuit Squadron.
The Brits got it right with the TSR2. Dam shame it never took off(no pun intended). 50 years later and it still looks like an amazing design. Going supersonic, and leavin the chase plane in the dust with just one engine on reheat? simply superb...
I'm from Preston, and a lot of people still grind their teeth when you mention TSR2. My grandad worked on canbera and lightning, after TSR2 he went to lockheed along with many others. There are many factors which led to it's demise. It's no good slagging everybody off about everything, what's done is done, the documentary on here covers most things.
Two years ago I bought the limited edition Airfix 1/32 scale kit of the TSR2. To date it is still in its box virtually un-touched. One day I might get riound to building it.
If only, Cosford has the only complete example, The RAF No Radio School did have the computers (I know as I was trained to use them in 5T Block Locking). However the CAA would never allow it! However, I'd be one of the first to buy a ticket to see that.
Thankyou for your comment , it's amazing what the British aircraft industry used to be capable of (Concorde, V Bombers, Lightning etc) but thanks to labour, things really haven't been the same since (and that goes for the country as well!)
I truly apologize for the idiocy of my government. This was such an amazing a/c, she was definitely ahead of her time. Who knows if my government hadn't pressured yours into ending the development of this a/c we might have been buying from you instead of vice versa. Thumbs up to Viddy for making a outstanding video. :)
@ViddyKJB I went there again today. I took my dad, who is terminally ill with cancer. I stood there in front of her, almost crying again and then I looked at my dad. He had the same look on his face. He knows all about her, but when confronted with her, all he could say was "My god. She's beautiful." We both agreed a long time ago that if she had entered service, she would still be there now, but it was just the expression on his face. Nothing can ever inspire so much love.
@hartcliffer I saw it at the same place back in 1994 when I was an Air Cadet stationed at RAF Stafford during the annual ATC Summer Camp. We visited RAF Cosford during that time and I remember looking at it and being amazed by it, though I never knew at the time what had happened to it. Knowning what did now makes me feel just as sad as you feel now and felt then.
There were reasons for the cancelation of the XB-70. The crash of the prototype and a series of mechanical failures forced its cancelation, but it had amazing potential.
I was the construction manager for Gallifords at RAF cosford and spent many hours looking over and reading up on TSR2. Fantastic British engineering ruined by poor politicians
The TSR2 was ahead of her time. The first aircraft to have a HUD (head up display). During one test run the TSR2 accelerated so hard the Lightning chasing her had to engage afterburner to catch up! I agree its heartbreaking she was cancelled by spineless politicians!
@hartcliffer You said it right: beauty and power... I actually went to Cosford today and seeing this amazing aircraft really does bring a lump to your throat. And its actually far bigger then you would imagine too... I like the way the F111 is tucked away at the back in the cold war hangar while the glory of TSR2 is given pride of place.
Oh, the TSR-2...truly one of the most beautiful and lethal plane ever to have flown..in the hands of the brilliant R.A.F pilots, that would have been. The cancelling of such planes, such projects made us go backwards, counting on although proven but used designs, never pushing forward to the edges of human technological knowledge ...
I Must Congratulate you for your efforts, in making this Tribute to the TSR-2, in my view one of the Finest Aircraft us Brit's have ever produced (yet unfortunately never got to use thanks to Labourite Ineptitude [nothing new there as we all know]). This Video is certainly Not being sentimental (dispite a "Certain User" claiming it to be), as... "those who forget their history... are doomed to forever repeat it". TSR-2 will never be forgotten, i for one shall see to that, as will many others.
I'm surprised that there isn't a move afoot among enthusiasts to built a replica - at least a static display mockup. Only drawback is the sheer SIZE of the beast - something that doesn't show up well in most photos. I had the same shock when I first saw an Aardvark (F-111) in the flesh. The replica would probably need to be displayed outdoors.
@ViddyKJB I actually don't remember seeing the F-111 when I was there, granted it was back in 1994 but it just goes to show how insignificant it is especially since I can picture clearly in my head walking around the TSR-2 aswell as seeing 2 Victor Bombers and a DeHavilland Vampire which one of the CI's who was there claimed to has flown during his time in the RAF.
Excellent video! Such a shame, as one other poster mentioned, the same fate was given the Canadian CF-105. The TSR2's angle of attack both during take off and landing look so much like that of Concorde.
Well, you have to admit, in Thee BIG Picture view of Ze Cold War, it was ESSENTIAL that North America have a dominant, thriving aerospace-industrial-complex, while it was merely optional that UK had such. There's only so much important shyt you dare place on an island that close to Duh USSR... in top secret NORAD docs, France was referred to as The Warning Track, and Great Britain as The Speed Hump. Oh no, Mr. Bill! =:O
It happened to Canada, too, with their CF-105 Arrow project. They ended up buying F-101 Voodoos from the US. Personally, I believe the CF-105 Arrow would have been a much better aircraft. At least the RAF now has both the Typhoon and the Tornado.
your right it was vulcan b1 xa894 and the white vulcan nose of the test bed for tornado and concord engines is at wellesbourne with xm655 the nose section of the other vulcan is xa903 b1
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH I would love to see the XR220 re-made flight worthy and put back in the air for special occations in the same way the Battle of Britain planes are. The site would be breath taking, I'm getting goosepimples just thinking about it.
PS As for the Falklands, no bomber has been designed to Bomb that far save for the B-52 or B-2 and even then only with the massive tanker resources the US have on hand.
I agree the British civil aviation industry died with Comet and the military aircraft industry died with TSR2. Britsh aircraft industry produced some fine aircrafts like Super VC-10 and Trident 2-3 unfortunately they were not successful because they couldn't restore the reputation damaged by the Comet and in the same time Boeing 707,727 and DC-8's were being produced in huge numbers which made them much much cheaper.
@ViddyKJB Also, bear in mind, that the hard disk drive, as you know it now, was invented purely for this aircraft. It was designed to fly under the radar, technically making it a stealth aircraft.
"Death Of The Arrow, The Biggest Mistake In Canadian Aviation "(YT.). Destroyed in parallel with TSR2". Were global forces even then, setting out to wreck our industrial capacity? The US was desperate to sell the F1-11, with all kinds of sweet deals!
Not a very well known fact was that in 1981, The Tory Government under Margaret Thatcher carried out a feasibility study into building an updated TSR2 using the original blueprints but with updated avionics and engines but unfortunately it would have cost too much :-(
Thats a hard one to answer. Our Aircraft Industry didnt have the economy of scale and was lots of too small companies fighting each other let alone America and Mountbatten. Missile technology seemed to be the way ahead so any aircraft was only going to be a glorified launch vehicle. That was the prevailing opinion of EVERYONE at the time the Sandy's report was basing its assumptions on sound footings. Hindsight is a luxury they didnt enjoy at the time. Hindhurst is a village in hampshire.
AIR FORCE MAGAZINE January 2006 Vol. 89, No. 1 The Converging Paths of Whittle and von Ohain By Walter J. Boyne They approached the jet engine problem in different ways, but they both solved it. No one who witnessed the first flight by a jet aircraft had any idea of the revolution that the jet engine would bring. The secret flight in Germany of the Heinkel He-178 on Aug. 27, 1939, led to revolutions in aviation, warfare, transportation, politics, and the world economy.
@hartcliffer One of the main reasons she is beautiful is cause she looks like a Swan, one of the most beautiful birds in the world. You just have to look at the video of her taking off and landing to see the similarities, not to mention the fact she is painted white and her undercarriage is black just like a Swan.
in terms of the performance,the difference between the two was not big.The F-111 was aerodynamically more advanced due to "swing wing" or variable geometry airfoil. Remember, the Brits are not alone in this, also the USAF has cancelled probably the most advanced flying machine ever created, the XB-70 ! It would have been nice to see both TSR-2 and XB-70 in the air.
@Akuma007i The F-111 was in service for so long for one simple reason. The Americans never bothered to replace it. And it couldn't match the TSR2 on its terms. The TSR2 was designed from the outset to be a high performance, low level interdictor aircraft. The F-111 merely added this to its repertoire, without any actual success. Don't get me wrong, the F-111 was a great aircraft, but it was no match for the TSR2 for its intended role.
@dave3663 i did a bit of reading on that and from what i can gather it was technically STILL in advance of anything anybody else had and it wouldve been very possible to put modern electronics in it (the much more powerfull concorde engines were also mentioned) basically they didnt do it because of cost and was it really needed at that point :(
@alarm373 Innovation costs money. Stunningly complicated, technically spectacular innovation costs lots of money. The fact TSR2 was expensive was because it hadn't been done before, it's avionics weren't 'off the shelf' like so many of the American's were. Cost didn't really kill TSR2, it was a terrified Government treading unchartered waters that got cold feet that ended this astonishing aircraft. Don't forget, the same cowardly Government also wanted to abandon Concorde due to cost...
AH, The days when Britain could do anything, or thought it could, which amounts to the same thing really!( R I P Bill Gunston) The ability of the aviation industry at that time was not in question what was in question was the ability of our "elected politicians" Some things never change!
@ViddyKJB i just wish that the government of the time had the foresight and backbone to support tsr2,, we would have stll been world leaders in aviation
@eatthisvr6 it was XA894 wasnt it ? which as you say didnt last long when the engine went bang Im sure ive seen a nose section off a vulcan painted anti flash white that carried an underslung engine but i cant remember the number help me out here if you can
@geoffers158 What's the Option the Con-libs are left with? we're building 2 carriers we cant cancel - SEA harriers were retired 5 years ago, GR7's are bomb trucks, compared against a Tornado they lose EF cant operate from carriers so its F35C's ,F18's or Rafele M's,- take your choice
A tragic situation, yet again this country was years ahead of anyone and yet again politics made sure we never would be again, I cant helping thinking of the Nimrods being cut up last month on the TV News, this and previous goverments have a great deal to answer for
not all were destroyed thankfully. you can see a fine example at duxford in the airspace hanger. i believe its XR220 if memory serves correctly. sad that once again a country of democracy seems to dictate what happens.
The British navy has always been envious of the Royal Air Force mainly because the Navy was a redundant factor in the war as not only was it left to the RAF to protect Britain from invasion but the Atlantic submarine wolf packs could not be defeated until Aircraft could spot them and destroy Hitler's greatest menace.
The reason it got cancelled was so the yanks could flog off all the F111 around the world even that was half British it had Barnes Wallaces Swing wing stuck on each side. Who ever cancelled TSR2 should have had his nuts cut off (Duncan Sandys)
+Jim Young The finger of blame can be as much pointed at Mountbatten who was CDS at the time, (and probably the worst one we ever had) who wanted the RAF cut down and they Royal Navy expanded (Polaris) also the Governments scientific advisor (Zuckeman?) who knew sweet FA about aviation. Another factor was the shot gun marriage of Bristol, EE and Vickers to form BAC, who all hated each other especially as Vickers Management were in the driving seat. Perhaps if EE had been in the driving seat the development would have been less fraught as they knew how to make high tech aircraft (Lightning and Canberra) Vickers did not. Blaming the Americans is to easy, yes they would not have liked TSR-2 but when all said and done the decisions were made in Whitehall.
Neither Whittle nor Ohain can claim the invention..Jet engine or the gas turbine existed long before they started building their respective engines. Much of the ground work has been done by Americans and French. The American George Brayton was the fist to lay down the principles of a gas turbine..Intake,Compression,Combustion and Thrust as a continuous process as opposed to the piston engine where all this takes place intermittently. The Frenchman Maxime Guillame was the the first to apply for
a patent in 1922..But he coudn't build the engine..No money,no suitable material..Whittle invented the British jet engine.But this doesn't mean the jet engine was invented in Britain far from it..Also Von Ohain took credit for the pioneering work done by his fellow German engineers.Dr.Herbert Wagner and Dr Anselm Franz, both are the sole inventors of the Turbojet with axial flow compressors.As you said the first jet aircraft in the air was GERMAN Heinkel and not British.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH the lightning is still to this day an absolute beast of a plane that very very few can match in performance terms but as you say the tsr2 went away from it with 1 reheat! the in service tsr2 wouldve had a fair bit more power too. i honestly beleive to this day that the tsr2 wouldve been the fastest plane on earth at low level ps the americans had the right idea by sticking with the hugely late and overbudget f111 they ended up with a very good plane
TSR.2 was very much like what F-111 would have been had McNamara not forced USN and USAF to try and meld two very different missions into one aircraft, and as a result the F-111A could only do what was orignally hoped for for either in the beginnings. The F-111D on the other hand beats TSR.2 hands down.
Just curious about the specs... I'm guessing landing speed 180+ knots? Time aloft w/out refueling... 23 minutes? Folks sure seem to be predicting a lot of glorious real-world exploits based on a couple of (necessarily) hand-built prototypes. Was it really more capable than the awesome Electric Lightning? That thar's a fine looking specimen. Eee-vil Americans must've left you alone on that one.
@Akuma007i It may have had a long career but it was by NO MEANS 'better' then the TSR2 WAS .....never mind what it WOULD have been capable of. As far as performance and having 'plenty in reserve' are YOU SERIOUS??
@7607987600 i dont know which vulcan was used sorry. did they use a vulcan to test concordes engines? i think they were closely related to tsr2 engines wernt they?
The sad thing is that the exact same thing is happening today, just look at the F35b, the only reason the b works is because of british tech and yet we had an engine and a control system for a VTOL harrier replacement of our own. It's such a waste.
The only "good" thing to come from this is a flying Vulcan today, the "V Force" would have all ended there days long before they did, the story of the TRS2 is much like the Avro Arrow
Gosh, you know I can't help wondering who was to blame for the Government being "cash strapped." Did the Yanks engineer that, too? Ingenious buggers...
My eyes fill up when I watch this.
TSR2 - Beautiful, state of the art airplane with no equal for her time
.Such a tragedy.
The Canadian Avro Arrow was shafted by a vindictive & unpatriotic Prime Minister (Diefenbaker) too. The two aircraft have almost parallel story lines
As a son of Preston, I have two emotive memories - one of Tom Finney playing at Deepdale - the other, the TSR2 flying overhead. I remember the Labour candidate for the up-coming election, standing on a trailer, appealing to hundreds of aircraft workers at BAC's English Electric's works in Preston, 'Vote for me lads...your jobs will be safe!' Within weeks the TSR2 was cancelled. Many of the men were laid off - many ended up at Boeing in Seattle. As for the Labour man - he got voted in, but he dared not show his face in Preston for many months to come.The TSR2 saga still has a strong resonance to the people of Preston. Mythical in its proportions, the sorry tale is being handed down to the younger generations of Preston like one of Aesop's fables. To those who were present at the time - it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth and an inherent mistrust of politicians - no matter the colour of their party.
As an Engineer with Aerospace and Defence, I watch this once a month .. I cry every time I do.
I was on a gliding course in the midlands during the late 1980's. One morning fog descended over the airfield rendering at least part of the day un-flyable. Our instructor suggested at trip to Cosford for the morning until the fog cleared so we all climbed into his Volvo and headed for the museum. It was here I first saw this simply awesome machine standing silent yet somehow proud. I'll never forget that morning, truely awesome and at the same time deeply tragic.
Superb tribute indeed...how gorgeous is that and to think it's almost 50 years ago...incredible the talent on those BAC drawing boards all those years ago
I wasn’t old enough to see the tsr2 fly but thanks to my service at RAF Cosford I can say I’ve touch her and spent time around her even went to collect her exhaust pipes from Shoeburyness many many moons ago.
Thank you for all your comments about this video, I'm made up so many of you enjoy it and respect what the many thousands of highly skilled engineers and designers were capable of doing without a single computer back when it really was only slide rules and pencils.
Every time I see a Tornado or Typhoon strutting their stuff I wonder what could have been. No wait, what should have been... and it brings a lump to my throat and a tear to my eye. Amen.
The music brought a tear to my eye.
This plane SHOULD have been the greatest strike/ground attack plane of its era.
We Brits have cobbled some amazing aircraft together in our time.
TSR2, Lightning, Buccaneer, Hunter, Canberra, Victor, Vulcan, Harrier. The Lynx and Merlin (part British) helicopters
I went to RAF Cosford last June. I hired a car at great expense, just to go and see this beautiful aircraft. When I got to it, I just stood there, crying. It hurts so much to know that we are capable of building such beauty and power, yet politically, we never get it right.
I am a member of a museum dedicated to the USAAF in the UK and was told by a visitor that helped to build TSR 2 that it was scrapped by the request of the USA as at that time nothing could touch it in performance even more of a travesty we ended up buying Phantom,s from the USA.
At one time no one could best us at design and production of aircraft military or civil.
Nice video,RIP TSR 2.
Even today, we learn again and again, that with friends like America we really need not search for enemies.
I met Roland Beamont in the 80s. TSR-2 was killed out of ignorance. I still cry about it.
Oh man this is a fantastic video. Really nice job. I was lucky enough to have met Roly Beamont at a TSR2 lecture in the mid 90s. Sadly he died in 2001. He was such a nice man and was great to talk to. I asked him out of everything he'd flown, what was his favourite? He said he was lucky enough to fly some of the most amazing aircraft, but without a doubt his favourite was the Hawker Hurricane, because she was a lady, and always brought you home! The man is a legend !
Regarding radar, the US Army Signal Corps also started developing radar as early as 1930. In 1935, tests on microwave propagation tests using the German radar inventor Hollmann built valves, RCA magnetron operating at 9 cm, RCA acorn valves were performed. In 1937 the test radar unit was demonstrated. Based on this test unit, in 1940, the SCR-270 became available for coastal defense and it was first deployed in Panama in the Fall of 1940 as an early warning for the Air Corps, Pursuit Squadron.
The Brits got it right with the TSR2. Dam shame it never took off(no pun intended).
50 years later and it still looks like an amazing design.
Going supersonic, and leavin the chase plane in the dust with just one engine on reheat? simply superb...
Awesome Aircraft.....................
Brilliant video, well done.
I'm from Preston, and a lot of people still grind their teeth when you mention TSR2. My grandad worked on canbera and lightning, after TSR2 he went to lockheed along with many others. There are many factors which led to it's demise. It's no good slagging everybody off about everything, what's done is done, the documentary on here covers most things.
Two years ago I bought the limited edition Airfix 1/32 scale kit of the TSR2. To date it is still in its box virtually un-touched. One day I might get riound to building it.
Haunting music...so befits the video...well done
As a Brit there will be a time when the TSR2 will fly again for airshows.
If only, Cosford has the only complete example, The RAF No Radio School did have the computers (I know as I was trained to use them in 5T Block Locking). However the CAA would never allow it! However, I'd be one of the first to buy a ticket to see that.
Thankyou for your comment , it's amazing what the British aircraft industry used to be capable of (Concorde, V Bombers, Lightning etc) but thanks to labour, things really haven't been the same since (and that goes for the country as well!)
I truly apologize for the idiocy of my government. This was such an amazing a/c, she was definitely ahead of her time. Who knows if my government hadn't pressured yours into ending the development of this a/c we might have been buying from you instead of vice versa.
Thumbs up to Viddy for making a outstanding video. :)
@ViddyKJB
I went there again today. I took my dad, who is terminally ill with cancer. I stood there in front of her, almost crying again and then I looked at my dad. He had the same look on his face. He knows all about her, but when confronted with her, all he could say was "My god. She's beautiful." We both agreed a long time ago that if she had entered service, she would still be there now, but it was just the expression on his face. Nothing can ever inspire so much love.
@hartcliffer I saw it at the same place back in 1994 when I was an Air Cadet stationed at RAF Stafford during the annual ATC Summer Camp.
We visited RAF Cosford during that time and I remember looking at it and being amazed by it, though I never knew at the time what had happened to it.
Knowning what did now makes me feel just as sad as you feel now and felt then.
fantastic vid!!!, what a crying shame tsr2 was the cutting edge!!! thanks for posting this
XB-70 was one of the greatest achievements in the history of aviation.
maybe the second after SR-71.
There were reasons for the cancelation of the XB-70. The crash of the prototype and a series of mechanical failures forced its cancelation, but it had amazing potential.
I was the construction manager for Gallifords at RAF cosford and spent many hours looking over and reading up on TSR2. Fantastic British engineering ruined by poor politicians
SCARED THE ALLIES MORE THAN THE ENEMY !
FORCED TO SCRAP A WININING PRODUCT & SITUATION
The TSR2 was ahead of her time. The first aircraft to have a HUD (head up display). During one test run the TSR2 accelerated so hard the Lightning chasing her had to engage afterburner to catch up!
I agree its heartbreaking she was cancelled by spineless politicians!
Nice editing job; excellent choice of music. "Knights of the air" is a cliché but in this video very apt.
@hartcliffer You said it right: beauty and power... I actually went to Cosford today and seeing this amazing aircraft really does bring a lump to your throat. And its actually far bigger then you would imagine too... I like the way the F111 is tucked away at the back in the cold war hangar while the glory of TSR2 is given pride of place.
Really gotta see that
TSR2 was built by hand the shot at 2:03 shows how skilled our aircraft industry was at that time. what that chaps making would be done by CNC today!
Oh, the TSR-2...truly one of the most beautiful and lethal plane ever to have flown..in the hands of the brilliant R.A.F pilots, that would have been. The cancelling of such planes, such projects made us go backwards, counting on although proven but used designs, never pushing forward to the edges of human technological knowledge ...
I Must Congratulate you for your efforts, in making this Tribute to the TSR-2, in my view one of the Finest Aircraft us Brit's have ever produced (yet unfortunately never got to use thanks to Labourite Ineptitude [nothing new there as we all know]).
This Video is certainly Not being sentimental (dispite a "Certain User" claiming it to be), as... "those who forget their history... are doomed to forever repeat it".
TSR-2 will never be forgotten, i for one shall see to that, as will many others.
I'm surprised that there isn't a move afoot among enthusiasts to built a replica - at least a static display mockup. Only drawback is the sheer SIZE of the beast - something that doesn't show up well in most photos. I had the same shock when I first saw an Aardvark (F-111) in the flesh. The replica would probably need to be displayed outdoors.
@ViddyKJB I actually don't remember seeing the F-111 when I was there, granted it was back in 1994 but it just goes to show how insignificant it is especially since I can picture clearly in my head walking around the TSR-2 aswell as seeing 2 Victor Bombers and a DeHavilland Vampire which one of the CI's who was there claimed to has flown during his time in the RAF.
Excellent video! Such a shame, as one other poster mentioned, the same fate was given the Canadian CF-105. The TSR2's angle of attack both during take off and landing look so much like that of Concorde.
Well, you have to admit, in Thee BIG Picture view of Ze Cold War, it was ESSENTIAL that North America have a dominant, thriving aerospace-industrial-complex, while it was merely optional that UK had such.
There's only so much important shyt you dare place on an island that close to Duh USSR... in top secret NORAD docs, France was referred to as The Warning Track, and Great Britain as The Speed Hump. Oh no, Mr. Bill! =:O
It happened to Canada, too, with their CF-105 Arrow project. They ended up buying F-101 Voodoos from the US. Personally, I believe the CF-105 Arrow would have been a much better aircraft. At least the RAF now has both the Typhoon and the Tornado.
your right it was vulcan b1 xa894 and the white vulcan nose of the test bed for tornado and concord engines is at wellesbourne with xm655 the nose section of the other vulcan is xa903 b1
4:16 is totally moving with the music swelling up and TSR2 taking off from Boscombe with the Puma in the background!
Don't think that's a Puma, too early for a Puma
@@peterpaul7703 Spot on! It was a Westland Whirlwind. Odd mistake for me to make, must have been drinking at the time ;-)
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH I would love to see the XR220 re-made flight worthy and put back in the air for special occations in the same way the Battle of Britain planes are.
The site would be breath taking, I'm getting goosepimples just thinking about it.
another part of the project that survives is the nose of the Vulcan test aircraft used to trial the TSR2 jet engine
PS As for the Falklands, no bomber has been designed to Bomb that far save for the B-52 or B-2 and even then only with the massive tanker resources the US have on hand.
You could say in some ways that the potential of the XB-70 was realised in the SR-71, at least in terms of outright speed.
I agree the British civil aviation industry died with Comet and the military aircraft industry died with TSR2. Britsh aircraft industry produced some fine aircrafts like Super VC-10 and Trident 2-3 unfortunately they were not successful because they couldn't restore the reputation damaged by the Comet and in the same time Boeing 707,727 and DC-8's were being produced in huge numbers which made them much much cheaper.
@ViddyKJB Also, bear in mind, that the hard disk drive, as you know it now, was invented purely for this aircraft. It was designed to fly under the radar, technically making it a stealth aircraft.
"Death Of The Arrow, The Biggest Mistake In Canadian Aviation "(YT.). Destroyed in parallel with TSR2".
Were global forces even then, setting out to wreck our industrial capacity?
The US was desperate to sell the F1-11, with all kinds of sweet deals!
@lonelywolf1966 i got TSR2 darts and a Tie when I worked at Filton ! haha
Quite righ, my mistake! It's the Airfix 1/48 scale kit I have. Sorry for the confusion.
Not a very well known fact was that in 1981, The Tory Government under Margaret Thatcher carried out a feasibility study into building an updated TSR2 using the original blueprints but with updated avionics and engines but unfortunately it would have cost too much :-(
Thats a hard one to answer.
Our Aircraft Industry didnt have the economy of scale and was lots of too small companies fighting each other let alone America and Mountbatten.
Missile technology seemed to be the way ahead so any aircraft was only going to be a glorified launch vehicle.
That was the prevailing opinion of EVERYONE at the time the Sandy's report was basing its assumptions on sound footings.
Hindsight is a luxury they didnt enjoy at the time.
Hindhurst is a village in hampshire.
This aircraft showed just how good we COULD be at developing aircraft! All F..ked up by politicians and politics.
There is one at Duxford so no replica required.
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH .....RIGHT ON!!!!!
omg! they nicked my paper airplane idea!!
Damn Labour struck her stone dead, she was years ahead of any thing any other country had
AIR FORCE MAGAZINE January 2006 Vol. 89, No. 1 The Converging Paths of Whittle and von Ohain
By Walter J. Boyne
They approached the jet engine problem in different ways, but they both solved it.
No one who witnessed the first flight by a jet aircraft had any idea of the revolution that the jet engine would bring. The secret flight in Germany of the Heinkel He-178 on Aug. 27, 1939, led to revolutions in aviation, warfare, transportation, politics, and the world economy.
@hartcliffer One of the main reasons she is beautiful is cause she looks like a Swan, one of the most beautiful birds in the world.
You just have to look at the video of her taking off and landing to see the similarities, not to mention the fact she is painted white and her undercarriage is black just like a Swan.
in terms of the performance,the difference between the two was not big.The F-111 was aerodynamically more advanced due to "swing wing" or variable geometry airfoil. Remember, the Brits are not alone in this, also the USAF has cancelled probably the most advanced flying machine ever created, the XB-70 ! It would have been nice to see both TSR-2 and XB-70 in the air.
@xStreetSurferxV2
the chase plane just happened to be a lightning ie 1 of the fastest accelerating airplanes to ever fly!!
At least the engines developed from this project, were kept and used on the Concorde build! so not all is bad eh folks.
I beleive i have a copy of that magazine shown in the first part of the clip.
And RAF Cosford too!
@Akuma007i The F-111 was in service for so long for one simple reason. The Americans never bothered to replace it. And it couldn't match the TSR2 on its terms. The TSR2 was designed from the outset to be a high performance, low level interdictor aircraft. The F-111 merely added this to its repertoire, without any actual success. Don't get me wrong, the F-111 was a great aircraft, but it was no match for the TSR2 for its intended role.
@dave3663 i did a bit of reading on that and from what i can gather it was technically STILL in advance of anything anybody else had and it wouldve been very possible to put modern electronics in it (the much more powerfull concorde engines were also mentioned) basically they didnt do it because of cost and was it really needed at that point :(
@xStreetSurferxV2 NVM, the title is "The Minstrel Boy"
@alarm373 Innovation costs money. Stunningly complicated, technically spectacular innovation costs lots of money. The fact TSR2 was expensive was because it hadn't been done before, it's avionics weren't 'off the shelf' like so many of the American's were. Cost didn't really kill TSR2, it was a terrified Government treading unchartered waters that got cold feet that ended this astonishing aircraft. Don't forget, the same cowardly Government also wanted to abandon Concorde due to cost...
i wanna cry... :-( i know its only a plane but its so sad....
AH, The days when Britain could do anything, or thought it could, which amounts to the same thing really!( R I P Bill Gunston) The ability of the aviation industry at that time was not in question what was in question was the ability of our "elected politicians" Some things never change!
@ViddyKJB i just wish that the government of the time had the foresight and backbone to support tsr2,, we would have stll been world leaders in aviation
@eatthisvr6 it was XA894 wasnt it ? which as you say didnt last long when the engine went bang Im sure ive seen a nose section off a vulcan painted anti flash white that carried an underslung engine but i cant remember the number help me out here if you can
@geoffers158
What's the Option the Con-libs are left with?
we're building 2 carriers we cant cancel - SEA harriers were retired 5 years ago, GR7's are bomb trucks,
compared against a Tornado they lose
EF cant operate from carriers
so its F35C's ,F18's or Rafele M's,- take your choice
A tragic situation, yet again this country was years ahead of anyone and yet again politics made sure we never would be again, I cant helping thinking of the Nimrods being cut up last month on the TV News, this and previous goverments have a great deal to answer for
not all were destroyed thankfully. you can see a fine example at duxford in the airspace hanger. i believe its XR220 if memory serves correctly. sad that once again a country of democracy seems to dictate what happens.
The British navy has always been envious of the Royal Air Force mainly because the Navy was a redundant factor in the war as not only was it left to the RAF to protect Britain from invasion but the Atlantic submarine wolf packs could not be defeated until Aircraft could spot them and destroy Hitler's greatest menace.
dandantheminiman I hope we can revive the tsr2s by fitting them with economic fighter engines
Whats the name of the second song btw?
The reason it got cancelled was so the yanks could flog off all the F111 around the world even that was half British it had Barnes Wallaces Swing wing stuck on each side. Who ever cancelled TSR2 should have had his nuts cut off (Duncan Sandys)
+Jim Young The finger of blame can be as much pointed at Mountbatten who was CDS at the time, (and probably the worst one we ever had) who wanted the RAF cut down and they Royal Navy expanded (Polaris) also the Governments scientific advisor (Zuckeman?) who knew sweet FA about aviation. Another factor was the shot gun marriage of Bristol, EE and Vickers to form BAC, who all hated each other especially as Vickers Management were in the driving seat. Perhaps if EE had been in the driving seat the development would have been less fraught as they knew how to make high tech aircraft (Lightning and Canberra) Vickers did not. Blaming the Americans is to easy, yes they would not have liked TSR-2 but when all said and done the decisions were made in Whitehall.
+Tony BMW
I think you talk a lot of sense, there...
The music seems to be chosen to moan the demise of the Great Britain which is no longer great.
My condolence to Brits.
Old School 😔😔😔😔 I know, we brits created the jet, V bombers, Tsr2 and the gloster meteor, but now, WE ARE NOW A SHITHOLE
Neither Whittle nor Ohain can claim the invention..Jet engine or the gas turbine existed long before they started building their respective engines.
Much of the ground work has been done by Americans and French.
The American George Brayton was the fist to lay down the principles of a gas turbine..Intake,Compression,Combustion and Thrust as a continuous process as opposed to the piston engine where all this takes place intermittently. The Frenchman Maxime Guillame was the the first to apply for
a patent in 1922..But he coudn't build the engine..No money,no suitable material..Whittle invented the British jet engine.But this doesn't mean the jet engine was invented in Britain far from it..Also Von Ohain took credit for the pioneering work done by his fellow German engineers.Dr.Herbert Wagner and Dr Anselm Franz, both are the sole inventors of the Turbojet with axial flow compressors.As you said the first jet aircraft in the air was GERMAN Heinkel and not British.
@Fedaykin24 .it look more like a westlands...
@ViddyKJB HEAR HEAR !!!!
but at the moment with conservitives set to get into power. things are destined to stay the same :(
@LIVERPOOLSCOTTISH the lightning is still to this day an absolute beast of a plane that very very few can match in performance terms but as you say the tsr2 went away from it with 1 reheat! the in service tsr2 wouldve had a fair bit more power too.
i honestly beleive to this day that the tsr2 wouldve been the fastest plane on earth at low level
ps the americans had the right idea by sticking with the hugely late and overbudget f111 they ended up with a very good plane
@enterBJ40 yep S.55 now I look closely
@klnine awww thats just rubbing it in lol... nice though
can u imagine the tsr2 attacking iraqi targets in the gulf war?
Such a short sighted government decision scrapping this
TSR.2 was very much like what F-111 would have been had McNamara not forced USN and USAF to try and meld two very different missions into one aircraft, and as a result the F-111A could only do what was orignally hoped for for either in the beginnings.
The F-111D on the other hand beats TSR.2 hands down.
Just curious about the specs... I'm guessing landing speed 180+ knots? Time aloft w/out refueling... 23 minutes? Folks sure seem to be predicting a lot of glorious real-world exploits based on a couple of (necessarily) hand-built prototypes.
Was it really more capable than the awesome Electric Lightning? That thar's a fine looking specimen. Eee-vil Americans must've left you alone on that one.
@Akuma007i It may have had a long career but it was by NO MEANS 'better' then the TSR2 WAS .....never mind what it WOULD have been capable of. As far as performance and having 'plenty in reserve' are YOU SERIOUS??
Government ass holes!
@7607987600 i dont know which vulcan was used sorry.
did they use a vulcan to test concordes engines? i think they were closely related to tsr2 engines wernt they?
TSR 2 - a sad story indeed. What a magnificent machine it was. What a great warplane it could have been. But, alas, politics..........
The sad thing is that the exact same thing is happening today, just look at the F35b, the only reason the b works is because of british tech and yet we had an engine and a control system for a VTOL harrier replacement of our own.
It's such a waste.
The only "good" thing to come from this is a flying Vulcan today, the "V Force" would have all ended there days long before they did, the story of the TRS2 is much like the Avro Arrow
Gosh, you know I can't help wondering who was to blame for the Government being "cash strapped." Did the Yanks engineer that, too? Ingenious buggers...