#houseofthedragon #targaryen #helaenatargaryen House of the Dragon's intros are deeper than you think. Also Helaena is my new favorite character. Maybe even my new favorite person
@@williamgunderson7365well yeah, but the problem is if rhaenyra died. The only other Targaryen would’ve been daemon, and daemon was as old as Viserys was. The Targaryen dynasty could’ve easily been wiped out in that case. Of course having more children is what actually lead to the targaryens almost being wiped out and all the dragons dying. But it made sense to have more children. The only way viserys could’ve avoided war was to either marry Aegon and rhaenyra together or just name Aegon heir long before his death.
He was close to Helaena. The show just didn't show his relationship with any of his other kids. If u watch Helaena around her father, you can tell she cares for him and looks delighted and proud when he walks in to defend Rhaenyra. The show just didn't show the relationship or even imply it, but that doesn't mean he ignored her on the show. In the books they are very close. I tend to believe they were close on the show, but they didn't have the time to show us Viserys' relationship with his other kids.
@henkhenk1601 him choosing a female when it was westerosi custom for males to succeed is what caused the war. Had he named Aegon as heir when he was born, none of this would happen. In the books too Rhaenyra is only 9 or 10 years older not 16 to 18 years older. Viserys is still young when he married Alicent who is 10 years older than Rhaenyra. He should have displaced Rhaenyra when Aegon was born to keep the peace. Unless, he saw which I think he did that the prince that was promised would come from Rhaenyra's line, it is the only logical explanation.
@@jamiemohan2049 i mean yeah that mightve been the case that he saw that. But he also couldve easily enforced a marriage between rhaenyras kids and those of him. Tho tbf, rhaenyra only had boys so that wouldve been some trouble now i think about it. But he also couldve easily just told both aegon and rhaenyra about the song of ice and fire, and about his supposed vision of the line that would lead to azor ahai. Just in general i feel like he couldve done wayyyy more to avoid a war.
She gave an unintentional prophecy in season 1 relating to tapestries. "Hand turns loom. Spools of green, spools of black. Dragons of thread weaving dragons of flesh." She gave that on Driftmark after Laenas funeral while she was working on a spider piece. As soon as I saw the new into I knew exactly what it was calling back to.
i like how they did the tapestry because i feel that this series is more of a women's world than GoT. so i like that they made the intro something that all the women do, they are like the thread that holds the crown together.
If people had watched Game of Thrones and the intro, more than once, they'd know you should NEVER .. skip the intro.. it evolves... with every episode..
4:49 That’s not present tense. Aegon eventually heals enough to partake in the fighting…and promptly gets even more injured, breaking both legs. He’s effectively in a wheelchair after that, aka: a wooden throne.
helaena already predicted the tapestry intro way back in season 1 with the episode of laena's funeral. she was in this tent mumbling to herself about dragons weaving and on the side, aegon was telling aemond how she's "dumb" and aemond says he'll marry her if it were him who is the eldest to keep their bloodline *"pure"* edit: because some of you can't read into film subtext and visual storytelling, the tapestry motif had been planted early on in the show. viserys had a lot of explicit dragon tapestry commissioned back in season 1 when alicent was still played by emily carey. this tapestry motif was continued by helaena being into embroidery, and in one of her prophecies about the dance, the show made her say the words "dragons (of flesh) weaving...". those words were chosen ON PURPOSE. and in season 2, we get the tapestry intro and helaena kept on doing her embroidery work. when she was young and full of confusion about her visions, she already used the word "weaving", and by season 2 finale, helaena lucidly tells that it's all a story, because she finally understands why she's a dragon dreamer. guys, the dialogue "dragons weaving" is a double entendre about the dance itself and the history of the targs as visualized in the form of a tapestry, of which helaena sporadically sees visions of.
@@maggyfrog here's what she said exactly during that scene: "Hand turns loom, spool of green, spool of black, dragons of flesh weaving dragons of thread" When all the scheming takes place, Otto is Hand of the King again. We get the greens and the blacks and Dance of the Dragons becomes a historical story talked about even in GoT. You cannot take dialogue from ASOIAF/GoT/HotD THAT literally. She predicted the scheming and subsequent war, not the tapestry intro.
@@AryiahFoxxe are you seriously telling me that condal DIDN'T make her say the words "dragons weaving" on purpose and yet make her do embroidery for half of her screen time AND THEN make the intro for season 2 a tapestry? i think maybe you don't know how to read into the subtext of dialogue
I always watch the intro to get hyped, but I completely missed the Haelena connection! Fun fact, one of the wines released for the show (the Red Blend) makes a parallel between weaving a tapestry and crafting a good wine blend as both being fine arts 🍷
An intelligent, nuanced HoTD take? From somebody who actually pays attention to the show? Have I stumbled upon a hidden treasure? Well done on the analysis. Fully agreed on everything. Hope we get more HoTD stuff from you.
Good take. Lots of other YT commentators are talking about Helaena in terms of her having prescience or weirwood powers or whatever, but I like this idea that she’s somehow existing outside of the timeline and been gifted/cursed with an overview of the whole of (at least her family’s) history. Somewhat like Bran the Broken, but without the complete lack of empathy. This made me try to remember if in the scene where Aemond comes to compel her to fight she tells him “I won’t burn anybody” or if the line was slightly different.
I love this interpretation! So much of the Dance of Dragons occurs because of the self-grandiosity HOTD characters have about themselves while Helaena has the wisdom to know their actions are just a blip in the grand story of Westeros, but not the power to make those around her see that
This reminds me of the movie "Arrival", the main character learns to see every moment of her life all at once, but is incapable of changing a single thing and wont be able prevent terrible things from happening. Everything is already written. Its a brilliant movie, but heartbreaking.
they basically turned her into a sort of kassandra of troy character in the show and i love that so much! i think it’s such a great change from the book actually
Haelena talking to Daemon explained the Blood and Cheese change for me. Haelena didnt act the way she did in the books because she knows it will happen. It's still sad, shes still upset, but she realizes it had to happen, that they all were just pawns. That's also probably a reason she's so detached from reality. You know when something seems bad at the time and then a year later every thing is fine? Now imagine you can see into the future. Nothing is really going to seem like that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.
You don't have to justify that, it's bad writing on the part of the writers. George always put determinism vs free will in his writings, in Asoiaf we have this great conversation between Meera and Jojen, Helena is just a victim of bad writing, like Brand in Season 7 and 8. This series ignores free will just because they think prophecies are cool, I guess.
@@LautaroFsI think that's what happened with Alicent and Daemon, but not with Helaena. I agree with OP in this one cause It makes sense, what actually bothers me is that I don't understand the relation with greendreams.
As someone who practically lives and breathes lore videos: This was a fun watch/listen. I don't follow your channel, but your perspective was really insightful in spite of you saying you don't consume Song of Ice and Fire lore. I started out kinda being like "well of course you don't understand, you're ignoring the lore!" but ended on appreciating your take quite a lot. It was all stuff I knew or had observed myself, but it was cool to see how the show got you there in spite of you not being a lore fiend. Kind of an amazing compliment to the show (and obviously kudos to your powers of observation). Idk that I'd have gotten as much as you did without all the lore vids I usually watch.
@@islasullivan3463 I know the scene you are talking about and it wasn't a vision. 1. He was high AF of the milk of poppy, and he thought Alicent was rhaenyera. 2. He was talking about the song of ice and fire, which is a dream that aegon the conquer had, and had been passed down from king to king during the targaryens dynasty up to that point. 3. If he did have "vision of the future" that event in which you described never happened. We see helaena talk in prophetic riddles and it comes true. Viserys's vision never happened.
^Actually I’m talking about the very first episode where he talks about the vision he had of his son “The vision was clearer than a memory. Our son was born wearing Aegon the conqueror’s crown (the crown Aegon the second wears). I heard the sound of thundering hooves, splintering of shields and ringing swords. (The war). As I placed him on the iron throne all the dragons roared as one (possibly the death of the dragons). It was a vision he just didn’t realize that it was about his son with Alicent not Aemma.
Nor did he realize that it was about war despite him focusing on this prophecy for so long, he either doesn’t see or just refuses to acknowledge the signs of the prophecy coming to pass.
Helaena is one of my favorite HotD characters and I can proudly say that I never skipped the intro. Phia Saban was a joy to watch embody this enigmatic, tragic character
I assumed the intro was a tapestry which was a thing that in the first season showed the divide between Rhaenyra and Daemon in the first season and the second season is all about them dividing and coming back together.
I love watching each intro in Game Of Thrones cus it changes every single time, so when House of the Dragon aired I assumed it'd be the same. There's so many little easter eggs and lore drops in each intro, tons of TH-camrs even do breakdowns of it cus there's HUGE implications in them
Wild. I was passively watching the intros for most of the season, and only started paying attention a couple episodes ago. And I had a similar epiphany too. Really well made video essay! looking forward to seeing more soon :) subbed.
Everyone - in the story or outside the story - also keeps forgetting that Viserys was actually the last rider of Balerion's last rider. He was not just a Targaryen, he was chosen by Balerion.
Since 2011 GoTs intros have been telling you the story lol Literally told you what cities / kingdoms would be featured that episode and sometimes have easter eggs like the stark symbol changing to a balton over winterfell when they took.
In the tapestry intro, blood sometimes precedes the embroidery pattern, and other times it comes after the embroidery, showing both cause and effect of the Targaryen war.
Alicent: "Perhaps Prince Daemon would care for a tour of the gallery ? He hasn't yet seen the new tapestries gifted to you by Norvos and Qohor." Viserys: "Would you like to see the Tapestries" lol "He has NO interest in such things." Rhaenyra: "I'd like to see them" 👀 - Hot D 1x4
I see the intro as a riff on the Bayeux Tapestry, which is an embroidered cloth nearly 70 metres (230 feet) long and 50 centimetres (20 inches) tall that depicts the events leading up to the Norman Conquest of England in 1066, led by William, Duke of Normandy challenging Harold II, King of England, and culminating in the Battle of Hastings. Sort of a medieval story board, if you will.
This is brilliant commentary. I feel like GoT and HotD get so overanalyzed, and most analyses end up looking the same, but this was a genuinely insightful perspective.
1:23 But isn't everything that happens in the show and it's world part of it's lore? So you aren't interested in/ curious about the story and maybe only it's characters (though they are connected)?
I haven't watched the show, so I'm coming at this from a complete blank, but it also sounds like the two characters you've mentioned are a form of POV character. They're looking on with little true control over the chaos around them, knowing full well what it would take to fix this, but unable to do a damn thing about it because they don't have the power to affect changes to the story. They toil away at their respective hobbies because it's the only thing they can do to not just go full Targaryen mad in this situation, and it's not working.
ugh okay so I had a whole section on this in an earlier draft where I talked about this class of pov character (I think I called them window characters??) but I ended up cutting it for flow 😖
Except Viserys did have multiple opportunities to stop the war, but he basically just turned a blind eye to the conflicts and problems within his family and court.
Viserys was a king though. He definitely had the power to affect change and stop the civil war. He had decades, in fact. He just chose not to do anything because he wanted to live in the delusion that everything was fine. Even Helaena could change the narrative somewhat (especially because of her ability to see the future), like prevent Aemond losing an eye, prevent the death of her son, ride dreamfyre into battle, etc. She's choosing to not participate for "the greater good". Helaena is playing her part in the story, as she said to Daemon, whereas Viserys was the one who set this tragedy into motion.
Oh I love season 2's opening sequence with the embroidery. I was watching it the other day during the second to last episode, and made a comment to my husband on how it was Helaena's embroidery work. Shes a dreamer, and the embroidery are the weavings of a story. It goes deeper than that to me, I won't go on, but yeah.
I thought the 2nd intro was just history following House Targaryen but I suppose something that contribites to the Helaena connection is that she's not in it. Though, Helaena using Dreamfyre or even just hopping on her to fly away and avoid capture would make a huge difference. Also, the unfeeling omnicient character guiding allies and enemies on their fate reminds me of a certain GOT character we didn't like very much by the end.
I wasn't a fan of this season for a lot of reasons, but what I can't deny is something that it did well was having attention to detail.. sometimes also to its own detriment such as with symbolic dragon figurines breaking that feel too on the nose for my liking, but most of the time with details like this, that really matter. I really liked the point you made about her connection to Viserys and their negative spaces, that's a very interesting perspective I never looked at before that has given me a greater appreciation for what they represent as characters and what their season intros represent. It's all really well thought out and I especially liked the point you made about the skip button bringing everything you were saying together about Helaena's role. Although I really wish Helaena would get more screen time. Anyway, great video, subscribed!
This is why I don't understand why people get confused about her lack of grief over Jaehaerys. Like, she does grieve for a bit, but she knows it was meant to happen and there was no changing it, so she moves on and forgives quickly.
VERY VERY astute. It's only recently gotten my attention this character.Yes you are correct on at least me underestimating but I think that's the intent. As the Observer I think it's ok and to be fooled part of the story ;). I love your observations and you really saw things I had most definitely not connected.
Interesting perspective and a great character study. I love it when people see beyond the obvious and can interpret and immerse themselves in the meta-layers of a fictional world.
I figured the dragons in the tapestry represented the number of dragons that are present at the end of the second season? They don't look like they're battling at all
Great video! Did not realize that crazy bunch o' dragons at the end of the most recent tapestry WAS A FUTURE BATTLE. Now that you say it, it sounds super obvious but I didn't get it first watch lol
I was wondering, how her powers will be known later. When the contemporaries did not realize, that she is predicting the future. In the history book, the show is based on, it is known, that she was a dreamer, who predicted the future.To have people look at her needlework after everything has come to pass and realizing, that she predicted everything, would be a nice way to reveal it.
Helaena now does have a big part in the conflict actually! She has magic strong enough to take part in bloodraven trying to tell daemon about white walkers. If you don’t know who bloodraven is, he’s the biggest mastermind in the books, makes varys look like Jon know when it comes to spying. The show shows us Bloodraven is in contact with Helaena of all people, which makes her now one of the most important characters in all ASOIAF
I really enjoy your videos! It's always a rare treat because you're really thoughtful, your avatar is so cute, and I know we're in for some great deep dives. I will sit and wait patiently for the next one :D
They explain in the show that she has prophetic dreams and visions. It's brought up about other Targaryens as well. They're called "Dreamers" or "Greenseers" because they get visions of the future
To clarify, "Dragon Dreamers" and "Greenseers" are two separate things. However, Haelena has prophetic dreams and this sets her above the typical dragon dreamer.
Brilliant analysis. Something that is also insinuated in the books is that the Game of Thrones is actually being played by unseen beings. Literally the outer gods are playing their own power game and the human characters are just pieces on the bored.
Tapestries are very important to the world of Westeros as they record of the great histories. Similar to Viserys model of Old Valyria, as you point out. I remember in S1 Alicent asks Daemon if he would like to view the new tapestries. Viserys laughs and makes fun of Alicent for asking - of course Daemon isn’t interested in the tapestries! It’s Daemon! And then Rhaenyra says she’d be interested in seeing the tapestries in an effort to make Alicent feel better because she begins to look pretty crestfallen. Watching the Dance of the Dragons unfold and seeing how they’ll be recorded and remembered in the intro is so fascinating! And it’s interesting to see the character’s reflect on how their legacy will be remembered in the future, and which character puts stock into the histories and how they’ll be remarked upon. Heleana is a dragon dreamer, so she can predict future events (although the visions are usually unclear.) Someone pointed out we see Heleana stitching her son’s funeral shawl in EP1 whilst talking Aegon, so perhaps she was subconsciously preparing herself for what’s to come. Phia Saban has also said after Jaehaerys death’s Heleana dissociates and retreats into herself more and more, which allows her to spend more time developing her gift and understanding her visions which is why by EP8 she can suddenly has a clear grasp of what’s going to happen.
1. Don’t skip intros (unless they are really bad--Dead Boy Detectives comes to mind). They ground you in either the world or the show or at least the world of watching the show. 2. Thanks. This was a cool take. I never even heard anyone say I was Viserys’s model, let alone Heleana’s and tapestry.
I haven't watched House of Dragon but now I'm a little intrigued. The first intro I really noticed was GoT, because watching it meant you could always follow where they were without any need of littering the screen with text. It carefully laid out every important place with name and landmarks so you'd always know where in Westeros you were. I'm glad they managed to make a potentially even better intro for this show.
I had completely missed the parallelism of Viserys and Helaena, but now I cannot think other: In the book, they have in common being characters of whom they tell the least possible. Helaena is practically ignored, and Viserys is always stereotiped. It's totally "don't think about them".
Viserys presided over 30 years of stability, peace and plenty, literally unprecedented amongst all Targaryen kings. But some people called him a bad king somewhere, so by all means, let us all keep repeating that forever.
@@novaowera9995 the person who failed both his family and history was Jahaerys, who apparently forgot that he had himself established Targaryen exceptionalism when he wanted to get married to his sister against everyones wishes, but when it came time to prepare the future for his heirs he thought it was better to go asking around for opinions and permissions instead of affirming Targaryen will. Or he was just as misogynistic as the rest of lords and decided to let them wreck the royal rights to choose an heir forever, instead of letting Rhaenys sit on the throne. Which creates the precedent that is the basis for the coup, that went against not only Viserys' manifest will, but that was a breaking of vows made to the crown.
i think the intro serves the exact same purpose the characters do, they were both the only dreamers. they were the only ones that knew what would really happen, i think you can see that spelled out in her intro and her embroidery
Cassandra was doomed with prophesy and the inability to let anyone believe her. Haelena is no different because her dreamings look to most as either semi-psychotic ramblings or, like the name implies, the products of her dreaming mind.
I hadn't made the connection to Helaena. Kudos on catching that because I think you're absolutely right. I'm wondering if Helaena's 'I forgive you' to Allicent is a hint at a future that's yet to come. (No spoilers, but if you know of Helaena's part in the story in the book then I'm wondering if Allicent is involved somehow).
Oh shit, that means 8 fucking years of game of thrones... we already knew it came from Samwell Samwise The astrolabe? When I saw them at the citadel , I knew it was confirmed Sam is author Helaenna is an observer. She watches it all
I would prob watch the intro for HOTD more, if they gave the show different music. The GOT theme was great, but they should've tried to give this show something different...
My problem with this and Daemon's forced "realization" is that this message regarding prophecy and destiny is the EXACT OPPOSITE in the ASOIAF books as a whole. It's like they don't get this at all or are intentionally trying to deviate from George's themes because they think they have something more interesting to say. It's incredibly jarring at best.
I don't think Helena or Viserys is decorative by any means, I think they're extremely purposeful bc without them there is only the unpredictable chaos?
7:28 but I don’t undervalue her! I’ve always taken seriously these prophetic characters in all forms of media! Because I know that you should listen to them, if you don’t you’re dead.
I never under valued her, since S1 there were hints of Haelena being a dreamer, just as the first Targaryen that predicted the fall of Old Valyria and the dream that made Aegon the conqueror and his sisters to fly Westeros and be spared of that cataclysmic end. The difference here, is no one is listening to her, it´s so frustrating once you know the fate of some characters. In each episode you start recognizing the events that are unfolding on the intro.
The funny thing being that she's been my favorite character from the start because she's so odd and off in the corner. I've been intrigued by her. I haven't read the books so idk her fate but I really hope she gets more time to shine and develop before it's her time to go. The actress does a fantastic job of bringing an ethereal quality to a character that could easily be seen as spacey or mopey.
This is why ppl say Viserys actually would’ve really liked Helena if he hadn’t been ignoring her! lol
He should have never remarried. All he wanted was his dead wife and Rhaenyra
@@williamgunderson7365well yeah, but the problem is if rhaenyra died. The only other Targaryen would’ve been daemon, and daemon was as old as Viserys was. The Targaryen dynasty could’ve easily been wiped out in that case. Of course having more children is what actually lead to the targaryens almost being wiped out and all the dragons dying. But it made sense to have more children. The only way viserys could’ve avoided war was to either marry Aegon and rhaenyra together or just name Aegon heir long before his death.
He was close to Helaena. The show just didn't show his relationship with any of his other kids. If u watch Helaena around her father, you can tell she cares for him and looks delighted and proud when he walks in to defend Rhaenyra. The show just didn't show the relationship or even imply it, but that doesn't mean he ignored her on the show. In the books they are very close. I tend to believe they were close on the show, but they didn't have the time to show us Viserys' relationship with his other kids.
@henkhenk1601 him choosing a female when it was westerosi custom for males to succeed is what caused the war. Had he named Aegon as heir when he was born, none of this would happen. In the books too Rhaenyra is only 9 or 10 years older not 16 to 18 years older. Viserys is still young when he married Alicent who is 10 years older than Rhaenyra. He should have displaced Rhaenyra when Aegon was born to keep the peace. Unless, he saw which I think he did that the prince that was promised would come from Rhaenyra's line, it is the only logical explanation.
@@jamiemohan2049 i mean yeah that mightve been the case that he saw that. But he also couldve easily enforced a marriage between rhaenyras kids and those of him. Tho tbf, rhaenyra only had boys so that wouldve been some trouble now i think about it. But he also couldve easily just told both aegon and rhaenyra about the song of ice and fire, and about his supposed vision of the line that would lead to azor ahai. Just in general i feel like he couldve done wayyyy more to avoid a war.
I just realized that the thing she is sewing before Jahaerys’s death was his shroud that she gives Alicent.
She gave an unintentional prophecy in season 1 relating to tapestries.
"Hand turns loom. Spools of green, spools of black. Dragons of thread weaving dragons of flesh." She gave that on Driftmark after Laenas funeral while she was working on a spider piece. As soon as I saw the new into I knew exactly what it was calling back to.
She was trying to capture a spider in a shell in that scene.
That wasnt about the intro, but the dance itself
@@psychedelicpegasus7587 spider, like Varys
Can you explain what this means for me please.
The intro is literally my favorite part dude. I’m yelling “TAPESTRY!!” at the tv every episode
I think I’m just going to start yelling that any time I see anything with stitches
You think they are changing it to something visually different next season?
@@rexibhazoboa7097probably yes, because the first season’s intro was different
i like how they did the tapestry because i feel that this series is more of a women's world than GoT. so i like that they made the intro something that all the women do, they are like the thread that holds the crown together.
or or or it's helaena telling the story because she knows what's going to happen.
It's very subtle. I recall in the first season where Aemond talks about wanting a dragon and Helena says something like "He'll have to shut one eye".
yeah I noticed that too. alicent says to him, "You will get a dragon," and halaena says "hell have to close an eye"
"He'll have to close an eye..."
She also says “there’s a beast beneath the floor boards” foreshadowing Renis’s escape at the end of season 1
The one that got me was when she mentions being scared of the rats... And later her baby is killed by a rat catcher.
If people had watched Game of Thrones and the intro, more than once, they'd know you should NEVER .. skip the intro.. it evolves... with every episode..
I was thinking the exact same thing!
It does? I mean that’s on the show for fucking up, they should know literally all people just skip intros in literally all shows.
@@smallpeople172 absolutely does.
@@smallpeople172 Take some responsibility, man.
or skip the intro and just watch youtube videos that tell you what changed instead
She is Cassandra of Troy.
I actually think her character is one of the most interesting. Her cryptic responses add a new level to the show’s dialogue.
Until she sides with the people who killed her son and tells Aemond "you will die in S3E9 at 45 minutes and 12 seconds"
They were important in GOT too. They showed locations etc for the episode letting you know certain plot points
4:49 That’s not present tense. Aegon eventually heals enough to partake in the fighting…and promptly gets even more injured, breaking both legs. He’s effectively in a wheelchair after that, aka: a wooden throne.
She meant the verbiage of "he sits" is in present tense, even though she's referring to something that hasn't happened yet
helaena already predicted the tapestry intro way back in season 1 with the episode of laena's funeral. she was in this tent mumbling to herself about dragons weaving and on the side, aegon was telling aemond how she's "dumb" and aemond says he'll marry her if it were him who is the eldest to keep their bloodline *"pure"*
edit:
because some of you can't read into film subtext and visual storytelling, the tapestry motif had been planted early on in the show. viserys had a lot of explicit dragon tapestry commissioned back in season 1 when alicent was still played by emily carey. this tapestry motif was continued by helaena being into embroidery, and in one of her prophecies about the dance, the show made her say the words "dragons (of flesh) weaving...". those words were chosen ON PURPOSE. and in season 2, we get the tapestry intro and helaena kept on doing her embroidery work. when she was young and full of confusion about her visions, she already used the word "weaving", and by season 2 finale, helaena lucidly tells that it's all a story, because she finally understands why she's a dragon dreamer.
guys, the dialogue "dragons weaving" is a double entendre about the dance itself and the history of the targs as visualized in the form of a tapestry, of which helaena sporadically sees visions of.
That wasn't about the tapestry, she was talking about Otto spinning plots that caused the civil war and division between the factions.
Could be both. The dream dragon never lies. @@Ashbrash1998
@@Ashbrash1998
she specifically said "dragons weaving"
@@maggyfrog here's what she said exactly during that scene:
"Hand turns loom, spool of green, spool of black, dragons of flesh weaving dragons of thread"
When all the scheming takes place, Otto is Hand of the King again. We get the greens and the blacks and Dance of the Dragons becomes a historical story talked about even in GoT. You cannot take dialogue from ASOIAF/GoT/HotD THAT literally.
She predicted the scheming and subsequent war, not the tapestry intro.
@@AryiahFoxxe
are you seriously telling me that condal DIDN'T make her say the words "dragons weaving" on purpose and yet make her do embroidery for half of her screen time AND THEN make the intro for season 2 a tapestry?
i think maybe you don't know how to read into the subtext of dialogue
So in conclusion.....Squircle skips the intro, which means she doesn't like the music, lads, get the torches and pitchforks
OKAY I have that music saved on my playlist for CLEANING EMERGENCIES ONLY. It gives me superpowers and therefore cannot be listened to lightly
@@squircleworks42 ahhh man, lads put the torches and pitchforks away
@@Kidelta-z9f but I had em all ready to go😢
To war
@@jimjohnson6944 *puts in earbuds, starts intro playlist, and begins magic girl anime transformation*
fear me mortal
I think the "he sits on a wooden throne" was present. He's in a wooden carriage.
Ah fair
@@GodKing-sj3lzbro wtf. Why
@@squircleworks42pls moderate the major spoilers in your comments if you can, series just got ruined for me
@@GodKing-sj3lzplease add lots of line breaks with periods before any spoilery comments (so it will be hidden behind a “show more”)
They're right, but it's not the Aegon you are thinking of that wins.
I always watch the intro to get hyped, but I completely missed the Haelena connection! Fun fact, one of the wines released for the show (the Red Blend) makes a parallel between weaving a tapestry and crafting a good wine blend as both being fine arts 🍷
i thought haelena having premonitions and visions was obvious...
Right? If anyone missed it they're clearly dumb
ya, its no secret
It is, people are just dumb and don't pay attention
An intelligent, nuanced HoTD take? From somebody who actually pays attention to the show? Have I stumbled upon a hidden treasure?
Well done on the analysis. Fully agreed on everything. Hope we get more HoTD stuff from you.
Good take. Lots of other YT commentators are talking about Helaena in terms of her having prescience or weirwood powers or whatever, but I like this idea that she’s somehow existing outside of the timeline and been gifted/cursed with an overview of the whole of (at least her family’s) history. Somewhat like Bran the Broken, but without the complete lack of empathy.
This made me try to remember if in the scene where Aemond comes to compel her to fight she tells him “I won’t burn anybody” or if the line was slightly different.
OOOOH that perspective does significantly shift that line
I love this interpretation! So much of the Dance of Dragons occurs because of the self-grandiosity HOTD characters have about themselves while Helaena has the wisdom to know their actions are just a blip in the grand story of Westeros, but not the power to make those around her see that
This reminds me of the movie "Arrival", the main character learns to see every moment of her life all at once, but is incapable of changing a single thing and wont be able prevent terrible things from happening. Everything is already written. Its a brilliant movie, but heartbreaking.
The second season intro is so beautiful
This was BRILLIANT! I have never seen such a beautifully poetic take on the matter. Love it.
they basically turned her into a sort of kassandra of troy character in the show and i love that so much! i think it’s such a great change from the book actually
Haelena talking to Daemon explained the Blood and Cheese change for me. Haelena didnt act the way she did in the books because she knows it will happen. It's still sad, shes still upset, but she realizes it had to happen, that they all were just pawns.
That's also probably a reason she's so detached from reality. You know when something seems bad at the time and then a year later every thing is fine? Now imagine you can see into the future. Nothing is really going to seem like that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.
yesss i love Helaena but i hated sm blood and cheese, didnt felt so bad or big, but at the end of that episode it kinda made sense...
You don't have to justify that, it's bad writing on the part of the writers. George always put determinism vs free will in his writings, in Asoiaf we have this great conversation between Meera and Jojen, Helena is just a victim of bad writing, like Brand in Season 7 and 8. This series ignores free will just because they think prophecies are cool, I guess.
@@LautaroFsholy crap. Your grammar and spelling.
@@Discordia5 Sorry but english is not my mother language, maybe you can learn spanish so i could criticize you too
@@LautaroFsI think that's what happened with Alicent and Daemon, but not with Helaena. I agree with OP in this one cause It makes sense, what actually bothers me is that I don't understand the relation with greendreams.
Helena has this haunting beauty… so ethereal…😍
In my opinion, Helena is the only one fit to sit the throne in the show. She's the only one not going around making erratic decisions.
As someone who practically lives and breathes lore videos: This was a fun watch/listen. I don't follow your channel, but your perspective was really insightful in spite of you saying you don't consume Song of Ice and Fire lore. I started out kinda being like "well of course you don't understand, you're ignoring the lore!" but ended on appreciating your take quite a lot. It was all stuff I knew or had observed myself, but it was cool to see how the show got you there in spite of you not being a lore fiend. Kind of an amazing compliment to the show (and obviously kudos to your powers of observation). Idk that I'd have gotten as much as you did without all the lore vids I usually watch.
Thank you Squircle, for being here for me as I sit, trapped and backed up on the bowl. Truly a blessing in my time of need.
maybe the most genuine compliment I have ever received
Viserys and Helaena both have visions, with Helaena being a potential greenseer … maybe next season will follow Daemon, as he also has had visions.
Viserys didn't have visions. He was told the song of ice and fire by good king jahaerys. He didn't have visions.
^He had one vision of himself putting the conquerors crown on his son with the smashing of shields and swords.
@@islasullivan3463 I know the scene you are talking about and it wasn't a vision.
1. He was high AF of the milk of poppy, and he thought Alicent was rhaenyera.
2. He was talking about the song of ice and fire, which is a dream that aegon the conquer had, and had been passed down from king to king during the targaryens dynasty up to that point.
3. If he did have "vision of the future" that event in which you described never happened. We see helaena talk in prophetic riddles and it comes true. Viserys's vision never happened.
^Actually I’m talking about the very first episode where he talks about the vision he had of his son
“The vision was clearer than a memory. Our son was born wearing Aegon the conqueror’s crown (the crown Aegon the second wears). I heard the sound of thundering hooves, splintering of shields and ringing swords. (The war). As I placed him on the iron throne all the dragons roared as one (possibly the death of the dragons).
It was a vision he just didn’t realize that it was about his son with Alicent not Aemma.
Nor did he realize that it was about war despite him focusing on this prophecy for so long, he either doesn’t see or just refuses to acknowledge the signs of the prophecy coming to pass.
Helaena is one of my favorite HotD characters and I can proudly say that I never skipped the intro. Phia Saban was a joy to watch embody this enigmatic, tragic character
I assumed the intro was a tapestry which was a thing that in the first season showed the divide between Rhaenyra and Daemon in the first season and the second season is all about them dividing and coming back together.
I love watching each intro in Game Of Thrones cus it changes every single time, so when House of the Dragon aired I assumed it'd be the same. There's so many little easter eggs and lore drops in each intro, tons of TH-camrs even do breakdowns of it cus there's HUGE implications in them
Wild. I was passively watching the intros for most of the season, and only started paying attention a couple episodes ago. And I had a similar epiphany too.
Really well made video essay! looking forward to seeing more soon :)
subbed.
Everyone - in the story or outside the story - also keeps forgetting that Viserys was actually the last rider of Balerion's last rider. He was not just a Targaryen, he was chosen by Balerion.
If the lore does become your thing, I think you will very easily find a place in the fandim. This was great, thank you.
Since 2011 GoTs intros have been telling you the story lol
Literally told you what cities / kingdoms would be featured that episode and sometimes have easter eggs like the stark symbol changing to a balton over winterfell when they took.
In the tapestry intro, blood sometimes precedes the embroidery pattern, and other times it comes after the embroidery, showing both cause and effect of the Targaryen war.
I skip the intro so much that when you used a clip and the "skip intro" thing was there, I instinctively tried to skip it. Lol
Alicent: "Perhaps Prince Daemon would care for a tour of the gallery ? He hasn't yet seen the new tapestries gifted to you by Norvos and Qohor."
Viserys: "Would you like to see the Tapestries" lol "He has NO interest in such things."
Rhaenyra: "I'd like to see them" 👀 - Hot D 1x4
"cultivating patience takes too long" ha
There’s an episode in Season 1 where young Halaena is talking to herself about weaving black and green threads.
I see the intro as a riff on the Bayeux Tapestry, which is an embroidered cloth nearly 70 metres (230 feet) long and 50 centimetres (20 inches) tall that depicts the events leading up to the Norman Conquest of England in 1066, led by William, Duke of Normandy challenging Harold II, King of England, and culminating in the Battle of Hastings. Sort of a medieval story board, if you will.
This is brilliant commentary. I feel like GoT and HotD get so overanalyzed, and most analyses end up looking the same, but this was a genuinely insightful perspective.
Wow! Great intro to the intros! I will pay more attention and not skip them as I usually do . . .
1:23 But isn't everything that happens in the show and it's world part of it's lore? So you aren't interested in/ curious about the story and maybe only it's characters (though they are connected)?
I haven't watched the show, so I'm coming at this from a complete blank, but it also sounds like the two characters you've mentioned are a form of POV character. They're looking on with little true control over the chaos around them, knowing full well what it would take to fix this, but unable to do a damn thing about it because they don't have the power to affect changes to the story. They toil away at their respective hobbies because it's the only thing they can do to not just go full Targaryen mad in this situation, and it's not working.
@Spark_Chaser Love this comment! Feels like most of us today!
ugh okay so I had a whole section on this in an earlier draft where I talked about this class of pov character (I think I called them window characters??) but I ended up cutting it for flow 😖
Except Viserys did have multiple opportunities to stop the war, but he basically just turned a blind eye to the conflicts and problems within his family and court.
Viserys was a king though. He definitely had the power to affect change and stop the civil war. He had decades, in fact. He just chose not to do anything because he wanted to live in the delusion that everything was fine. Even Helaena could change the narrative somewhat (especially because of her ability to see the future), like prevent Aemond losing an eye, prevent the death of her son, ride dreamfyre into battle, etc. She's choosing to not participate for "the greater good". Helaena is playing her part in the story, as she said to Daemon, whereas Viserys was the one who set this tragedy into motion.
Oh I love season 2's opening sequence with the embroidery. I was watching it the other day during the second to last episode, and made a comment to my husband on how it was Helaena's embroidery work. Shes a dreamer, and the embroidery are the weavings of a story. It goes deeper than that to me, I won't go on, but yeah.
Great vid, great point!
The overlooked intro, from an overlooked character, how very meta
LOVE the conclusion you came to!
Squircle, *Skips HotD's intro*
Me, *cluches pearls*😱
That’s actually kind of brilliant. Fully missed it!
I thought the 2nd intro was just history following House Targaryen but I suppose something that contribites to the Helaena connection is that she's not in it.
Though, Helaena using Dreamfyre or even just hopping on her to fly away and avoid capture would make a huge difference. Also, the unfeeling omnicient character guiding allies and enemies on their fate reminds me of a certain GOT character we didn't like very much by the end.
I wasn't a fan of this season for a lot of reasons, but what I can't deny is something that it did well was having attention to detail.. sometimes also to its own detriment such as with symbolic dragon figurines breaking that feel too on the nose for my liking, but most of the time with details like this, that really matter. I really liked the point you made about her connection to Viserys and their negative spaces, that's a very interesting perspective I never looked at before that has given me a greater appreciation for what they represent as characters and what their season intros represent. It's all really well thought out and I especially liked the point you made about the skip button bringing everything you were saying together about Helaena's role. Although I really wish Helaena would get more screen time. Anyway, great video, subscribed!
this essay is a pice of art. thank you
I love your little character. It makes me addicted
My God, this was beautiful and heartbreaking. Definitely not skipping the intro again.
This is why I don't understand why people get confused about her lack of grief over Jaehaerys. Like, she does grieve for a bit, but she knows it was meant to happen and there was no changing it, so she moves on and forgives quickly.
This a wonderful video!! Great content and observations!
VERY VERY astute. It's only recently gotten my attention this character.Yes you are correct on at least me underestimating but I think that's the intent. As the Observer I think it's ok and to be fooled part of the story ;). I love your observations and you really saw things I had most definitely not connected.
Interesting perspective and a great character study. I love it when people see beyond the obvious and can interpret and immerse themselves in the meta-layers of a fictional world.
I figured the dragons in the tapestry represented the number of dragons that are present at the end of the second season? They don't look like they're battling at all
She is the most innocent of all, yet she is in the dance with them as the dragons dance.
Great video! Did not realize that crazy bunch o' dragons at the end of the most recent tapestry WAS A FUTURE BATTLE. Now that you say it, it sounds super obvious but I didn't get it first watch lol
I was wondering, how her powers will be known later. When the contemporaries did not realize, that she is predicting the future. In the history book, the show is based on, it is known, that she was a dreamer, who predicted the future.To have people look at her needlework after everything has come to pass and realizing, that she predicted everything, would be a nice way to reveal it.
Helaena now does have a big part in the conflict actually! She has magic strong enough to take part in bloodraven trying to tell daemon about white walkers. If you don’t know who bloodraven is, he’s the biggest mastermind in the books, makes varys look like Jon know when it comes to spying. The show shows us Bloodraven is in contact with Helaena of all people, which makes her now one of the most important characters in all ASOIAF
I love your synopsis at the end
I really enjoy your videos! It's always a rare treat because you're really thoughtful, your avatar is so cute, and I know we're in for some great deep dives. I will sit and wait patiently for the next one :D
They explain in the show that she has prophetic dreams and visions. It's brought up about other Targaryens as well. They're called "Dreamers" or "Greenseers" because they get visions of the future
To clarify, "Dragon Dreamers" and "Greenseers" are two separate things. However, Haelena has prophetic dreams and this sets her above the typical dragon dreamer.
Viserys dwelt on the past of Valyria and Helaena dwells on the future of Westeros. It's all a story indeed.
I've been binge-watching your videos! Loved all of them and so excited for the ones coming, keep up the good work!
i actually hope they do more with her character than what the books did. Shes much more interesting because of this actress
This is the smartest most insightful video I’ve seen on this series. Brava
I really, really enjoyed this video. Thanks you soooooo much for sharing
Helaena is my favourite. I hope my sweet, innocent girl makes it out somehow.
This is exceptionally intelligent commentary. Well done.
Brilliant analysis. Something that is also insinuated in the books is that the Game of Thrones is actually being played by unseen beings. Literally the outer gods are playing their own power game and the human characters are just pieces on the bored.
It's sad they made her not bother riding. She lived riding Dreamfyre in the book.
Tapestries are very important to the world of Westeros as they record of the great histories. Similar to Viserys model of Old Valyria, as you point out. I remember in S1 Alicent asks Daemon if he would like to view the new tapestries. Viserys laughs and makes fun of Alicent for asking - of course Daemon isn’t interested in the tapestries! It’s Daemon! And then Rhaenyra says she’d be interested in seeing the tapestries in an effort to make Alicent feel better because she begins to look pretty crestfallen. Watching the Dance of the Dragons unfold and seeing how they’ll be recorded and remembered in the intro is so fascinating! And it’s interesting to see the character’s reflect on how their legacy will be remembered in the future, and which character puts stock into the histories and how they’ll be remarked upon.
Heleana is a dragon dreamer, so she can predict future events (although the visions are usually unclear.) Someone pointed out we see Heleana stitching her son’s funeral shawl in EP1 whilst talking Aegon, so perhaps she was subconsciously preparing herself for what’s to come. Phia Saban has also said after Jaehaerys death’s Heleana dissociates and retreats into herself more and more, which allows her to spend more time developing her gift and understanding her visions which is why by EP8 she can suddenly has a clear grasp of what’s going to happen.
1. Don’t skip intros (unless they are really bad--Dead Boy Detectives comes to mind). They ground you in either the world or the show or at least the world of watching the show.
2. Thanks. This was a cool take. I never even heard anyone say I was Viserys’s model, let alone Heleana’s and tapestry.
I haven't watched House of Dragon but now I'm a little intrigued. The first intro I really noticed was GoT, because watching it meant you could always follow where they were without any need of littering the screen with text. It carefully laid out every important place with name and landmarks so you'd always know where in Westeros you were. I'm glad they managed to make a potentially even better intro for this show.
Both are Dreamers.
Targeryan Dreamers are special. But we got 2 living together under the same roof.
I had completely missed the parallelism of Viserys and Helaena, but now I cannot think other: In the book, they have in common being characters of whom they tell the least possible. Helaena is practically ignored, and Viserys is always stereotiped. It's totally "don't think about them".
this made me watch HOTD actually
want to* watcg
@@amndmirk you briefly experienced the future in present tense
Love this!!
@@renaigh 😂
@@renaigh Squircle's analysis is so good it grants you time travelling abilities.. :D
Viserys presided over 30 years of stability, peace and plenty, literally unprecedented amongst all Targaryen kings. But some people called him a bad king somewhere, so by all means, let us all keep repeating that forever.
@@novaowera9995 the person who failed both his family and history was Jahaerys, who apparently forgot that he had himself established Targaryen exceptionalism when he wanted to get married to his sister against everyones wishes, but when it came time to prepare the future for his heirs he thought it was better to go asking around for opinions and permissions instead of affirming Targaryen will. Or he was just as misogynistic as the rest of lords and decided to let them wreck the royal rights to choose an heir forever, instead of letting Rhaenys sit on the throne. Which creates the precedent that is the basis for the coup, that went against not only Viserys' manifest will, but that was a breaking of vows made to the crown.
i think the intro serves the exact same purpose the characters do, they were both the only dreamers. they were the only ones that knew what would really happen, i think you can see that spelled out in her intro and her embroidery
With one kind of tragic point - I think her dreams are prophetic while his were mere visions.
Cassandra was doomed with prophesy and the inability to let anyone believe her. Haelena is no different because her dreamings look to most as either semi-psychotic ramblings or, like the name implies, the products of her dreaming mind.
If season 1 was Viserys hobby, and now its Haelenas, I wonder whos hobby will shape the third seasons intro
I hadn't made the connection to Helaena. Kudos on catching that because I think you're absolutely right. I'm wondering if Helaena's 'I forgive you' to Allicent is a hint at a future that's yet to come. (No spoilers, but if you know of Helaena's part in the story in the book then I'm wondering if Allicent is involved somehow).
Oh shit, that means 8 fucking years of game of thrones...
we already knew it came from Samwell Samwise
The astrolabe? When I saw them at the citadel , I knew it was confirmed
Sam is author
Helaenna is an observer. She watches it all
I would prob watch the intro for HOTD more, if they gave the show different music. The GOT theme was great, but they should've tried to give this show something different...
My problem with this and Daemon's forced "realization" is that this message regarding prophecy and destiny is the EXACT OPPOSITE in the ASOIAF books as a whole. It's like they don't get this at all or are intentionally trying to deviate from George's themes because they think they have something more interesting to say. It's incredibly jarring at best.
I don't think Helena or Viserys is decorative by any means, I think they're extremely purposeful bc without them there is only the unpredictable chaos?
7:28 but I don’t undervalue her! I’ve always taken seriously these prophetic characters in all forms of media! Because I know that you should listen to them, if you don’t you’re dead.
I never under valued her, since S1 there were hints of Haelena being a dreamer, just as the first Targaryen that predicted the fall of Old Valyria and the dream that made Aegon the conqueror and his sisters to fly Westeros and be spared of that cataclysmic end. The difference here, is no one is listening to her, it´s so frustrating once you know the fate of some characters. In each episode you start recognizing the events that are unfolding on the intro.
I can see doing this with anime, esp if the opening song is just ok. But, I always watch the GOT and HotD intros. The song slaps so hard.
How can you say Helaena is not interesting? EVERY time she speaks she spoils whats coming.
best Helaena video. Thank you so much
Really good observation, thank you.
The funny thing being that she's been my favorite character from the start because she's so odd and off in the corner. I've been intrigued by her. I haven't read the books so idk her fate but I really hope she gets more time to shine and develop before it's her time to go. The actress does a fantastic job of bringing an ethereal quality to a character that could easily be seen as spacey or mopey.
I always look forward to Helaena's next mumbled prophecy, they are the only spoilers I allow
How do you watch HOTD/GOT and fail to notice someone is a dreamer
Because she doesn't care about the lore
Because she doesn't care about the lore
Oh shit, that means 8 fucking years of game of thrones...
we already knew it came from Samwell Samwise
The astrolabe? When I saw them at the citadel