The fact he made the other ghoul think about a happy and warm memory before his mind forever eroded to nothing, shows this man has more heart than half the wasteland does. I don’t even think that them knowing eachother was the reason for that. Guy literally empathizes with him, understands the hell he is going through as that is a hell in Coopers future. And instead of justifying the instant killing of him via Fear of this future. Gives the guy an end he would want: as much of a peaceful death for a ghoul that can’t die in its sleep of old age.
If I remember right, in the movie scene where his character kills the guy, he objected to the portrayal and didn't like that direction for the character. His last cocky line in that scene sets up this righteous anger or vengeance in the act. I love that juxtaposition with how he handles the ghoul, a similar "Talking to a stricken person" scene, Coop the person approaches it with compassion and care, being the person he wanted his character to model. The show has so many beautiful moments of that setup and comparison and linking and modeling War never changes, and there's a line of thinking that people just need an excuse to be their worst selves, but in the end, even for people who appear at their worst, those moments of care and compassion don't change either. They're just as much a part of humanity, possibly the most core part in what even makes a person human. In a scene directly showing him facing a future he fears, where he becomes an unthinking monster, in that moment he shows his compassion strongly in the face of it
I like that in the Hollywood scene he won’t shoot the guy because of his morales and how he wants to be merciful, even in fiction, and in the wasteland he does shoot the ghoul as an act of mercy like you said, this shows that in the end he was still being merciful both ways
I think a very important detail you missed is that the last time Cooper saw Wilzig, he was at least able to walk on his own and the next time he sees him is a decapitated body. He didn't know about the cyanide pill Wilzig took. He didn't know that Wilzig himself asked to decapitate him. He saw the body and thought: "Woah. So short on the surface and she already ready to kill." Or he was simply confused. Thaddeus and Maximus even were pretty sure that it must have been the Ghoul who murdered Wilzig. But Cooper knew that it had to be Lucy.
@squircleworks42 i just wanted to say, its Coopers character that shoots the guy in the movie, not Cooper. Cooper argues with the director to try to convince him to just arrest him instead of shooting him. Pre-war Cooper almost seems anti-gun, a stark contrast to The Ghoul.
@@gbazo762 He was the kind of guy who was willing to die in a fire with his dog, instead of not bringing his dog into a vault. He might as well have said okey dokey about something.
yes. this. after my first watch of this vid I went back and rewatched the show twice. I noticed this, and am commenting such for no other reason than I am superficially proud of the very UNimportant fact that we had a similar thought for the same reason lol.
To add onto your point about Coop’s “fishing,” when he sees that his medicine was destroyed during the scuffle with the gulper, he is initially very angry and threatens Lucy at gunpoint, but then relents when she points out that given his actions, he really has no right. He seems to innately understand and accept the idea that because he did bad to her, bad was done to him. He accepts this internally even as he outwardly scoffs at Lucy’s invocation of the Golden Rule.
@@meoff7602 It could be both. In order to survive the wasteland you need four things First: A sharp/quick mind to think of a solution to your current problem. Second a silver tongue to talk or barter your way out of trouble. Third being a quickdraw. The final thing you need is to understand that you may die because of a number of things. So make your peace with your actions before doing so because you don't have time for regrets. Cooper survived the Wasteland not by shooting at everything that got in his way. There were probably times where he had to think his way out of trouble. So when his Rad-X were destroy he became pissed but when look over his actions he conceded it was his fault. Then his mind thought "Hey we got a perfectly good Vault Dweller to sell to get more Rad-X." Cooper had made peace that he may die before getting to see his family again but that doesn't mean he won't fight till his last breathe.
@@meoff7602 Brother, here’s some advice for free: nobody likes an “umm, actually” clown. They don’t like em’ when they’re right, and they like em’ even less when they’re wrong. Watch the scene again, and this time pay attention. There’s thematic intent behind Lucy saying those words, Cooper visibly reacts to them. When he draws his gun on Lucy in a rage he’s not thinking rationally and he doesn’t snap out of it because he suddenly knows he needs to sell her whole. It’s like you interpreted the scene through the most robotic, functionalist perspective possible instead of someone who understands emotional and thematic context.
btw how DID Maldaver survive just like the vault 31 "staff"? She couldn't have been part of vault tec when the bombs dropped, and she ain't no ghoul either... did i miss that explanation?
@@EGOR.d07 we dont have that answer yet. we know she did cold fusion and opposed vault tec , we arent sure how she got to the future but cryogenics seems the best or only way.
I really like that you brought up the scene where Cooper kills the other ghoul because not only is he basically mercy killing him before he goes feral. But he also distracts him showing that he genuinely cares and wanted his last thoughts to be of something good and his last acts to be him laughing rather than being afraid of dying or turning into a ghoul. Its a show of true kindness and is something that if Cooper was morally gone, wouldnt have cared enough about to do since if he didnt care he would have just shot him once he realized he was too far gone
That scene plus the scene when he didn't kill dog meat were the big signals for me that cooper was meant to be a complex protagonist. Like he uses living things as tools but he's never senselessly cruel. Well except maybe the scene where he doesn't give Lucy water.
yeah I definitely agree here. I feel like there's something interesting (and possibly VERY complex) there if you compare Cooper's thoughtful mercy kill and Moldaver's choice to keep Rose alive
When I first watched the scene when Cooper killed the Rodger I instantly understood it for the kindness that it was. When I was a kid we read "Of Mice and Men" in school. I instantly saw the similarity
One thing you glossed over is that Cooper was hesitant about killing the man on the western show, not that it disproves what you said but I feel an opportunity was missed to draw another through line to Lucy's character development
great point, both lucy and cooper showed hesitancy to kill a man, (real or not). It's actually four scenes, except we reuse cooper's last scene and lucy's first scene togther.
I was searching for a comment like this from the moment she mentioned that scene! Ultimately Cooper changed his stance right there in hollywood. He killed the character for his own survival, they just fired the lead writer, why not Cooper himself too?
Great point, he does spend some time in that episode trying to get them to change the scene because it isn't "in character" for him to execute a man like that
Eh, Lucy killing that ghoul in the store isn’t the same as the Ghoul killing his friend. His friend was a mercy kill, Lucy’s kill is in self-defense, so morally they have different weights. I’m with you on their parallels when Lucy puts down her mom though. One thing that you get close to but don’t quite pick up is this: the shop lady and the doctor tell Lucy they don’t think she has what it takes, but they don’t try to force her to change. The Ghoul tries to push her into becoming like him. He wants her to become like him to prove to himself that he needed to become the monster he is. He sees his old self in her, the moral do-gooder, always looking out for others, ect. If Lucy is able to survive in the wasteland without becoming a monster, it just shows that he wasn’t strong enough to survive while sticking to his morals. He needs her to become a monster. Not for her survival, but for his.
Yesssss. This guy gets it. I see Coop's arc as a series of compromises of what his previous self would consider in-character for him. First is the scene of him shooting the man he would have previously only arrested. Then, he lies to and spies on his wife. As a ghoul, he gives Lucy to organ harvesters so he can re-up on Rad-x. There's NO WAY pre-fall Coop would've done that. I think the video of his not-arrest serves to remind him of who he was before he started down this path, and to hint to us that maybe he's not so far gone that he can't be more like that again.
I think the important thing was Lucy seeing that sometimes killing, tho wrong on her moral level, is sometimes the only option. Kinda a dark lesson, but this is Fallout we’re talking about
i think her first ghoul kill isn't so much meant to mirror his, but to show her why he did what he did, and she uses that experiance to make the descision to mercy kill her mom later. It's not the same beats but it 100% plays into that evolution, and helps her make that decision. Super interesting point about the ghoul "needing" her to become him, never thopught about it like that.
@@squircleworks42 I'd say do it. Let it be a reminder if/when you get big that you've had supporters from the very beginning. I imagine it'd be comforting in hard times.
If you play New Vegas, there's essentially an infinite amount of analysis videos on the merits of its different factions, a debate that remains unsettled to this day
Well if you stay interested, welcome to the fallout party! I’m sure there’s more interesting stuff to find for you in that franchise (unpopular opinion but I think it’s actually smarter than elder scrolls)
I was quite sure the series would be abismal failure. But the more i hear about it the better it sounds like. At least it is FAR better than i would have expected
Yep. This to me is the theme of Fallout, the entire "game universe". When hardcore fallout 1 fans get upset at bethesdas fallout, "there is no society", I point to this. There have been attempts at societies, like the minutemen trying to band together before the events of fallout 4, but it fails due to "war never changes"
He feels different, because he too came from a civilized place. He is simply referring to how rules change when circumstance goes from civilized to survival
Ok now I have to know how you would characterize the show's competing moral system. Moldaver kept the mom alive as a ghoul, what's going on there? 🧐(And does that connect with her whole electricity plan?)
That's a really good question. I'd also like to know what's up with episode 1. Like, if Moldaver is supposedly trying to help people, why does she wreak such havoc on vault 33? Couldn't she have just stuck up the place and taken what she came for instead of trying to massacre everyone? Did she hate vaults and the overseers from 31 so much that she was willing to kill people for seemingly no functional reason whatsoever? Obviously there's some sort of "show these sheltered, privileged fools what the real world is like" energy to that, but for someone who explicitly works to benefit the community over the individual, it seems impractical to both end lives that you know next to nothing about - lives that could be taught differently and that could help rebuild - and to risk the lives of your own community in such a violent display. I have to wonder, is there a flaw in the writing there? Is Moldaver just that vindictive? Is there some third thing I'm not considering? Squircle had some interesting points in this video, and I'd love to hear what they have to say about all that (as well as other parts of Fallout, of course).
Yeeeeaaah Moldaver definitely deserves her own video. I think that the first scene where she gives an ultimatum to Maclean back in the vault (Lucy vs everyone else) (that also isn’t actually an ultimatum??) is probably the key to figuring out what her character is supposed to be, but I haven’t tackled it yet
@@squircleworks42 I was so confused by that "choose but actually I'm not going to kill any of them" either that's a plot hole or somehow moldaver meant something else with "choose" that we just assumed meant choose who dies because that's what it means 9 times out of 10
my take on cooper shooting rodger in the head being echoed by him watching himself shoot jorge in the head, tells the audience that he hasnt made the decision to do the things he does, but his hand has been forced to pull the trigger. much like the director forcing him to give in to his morals and be a killer, the apocalypse has forced him to become a killer. he still has his morals deep down. its just the circumstances do not allow him to act as the "good" guy.
I see it more as him realizing how much he has changed. He went from being reluctant to portray a character who would kill a villain , to being a man who would kill (and eat) a friend when it was necessary.
I don’t buy it personally. Yeah if we look at cooper shooting a ghoul who was well on his way to be feral. He ain’t that bad. It was a mercy kill and a survival measure. However not long after he’s trying to sell arguably the most moral person in the wasteland for organ harvesting. A pretty dark extreme for some meds. Considering we all know he could just as easily walk in there and take the place over without any real effort.
Coop goes out of control when he gets access to the chems stash at Super Duper mart. Which in turn sends him on the nostalgia spiral w/ the videos of his glory, and more out of control with more chems
The difference in reasoning with Roger and Jorge is that Cooper shoots Roger to put him out of his misery. Roger is going to go feral (already is in the throes) and there is nothing that can stop it. He puts him out of his misery. He even has him remember a happy moment just before doing so. Cooper originally protests about shooting Jorge because it's not what his character--his image--would do. We know the movie ends this way, but did Cooper stick to his guns and they edited that in later? I wonder about that. Or maybe he gave in because he was under contract and had no choice. He's Fallout's version of Omar: "A ghoul''s got to have a code." I think Cooper somewhere follows his own code. We just don't know what it is just yet.
I have to agree, there is a code. He could have just walked into that supermarket and taken those chems, there is nothing they could have done to stop him, but traded for them. He still believes in working for things rather than taking them.
It might be the biggest crackpipe theory out there BUT I noticed this one more detail to the Lucy/Cooper duality. Cooper took Lucy's finger and used it as a replacement for his missing finger, trigger finger no less. This might indicate some change to his character cause now he has a part of Lucy's righteousness in this gun-shooting digit of his. At the end the two of them kinda partnered up while before that Cooper used her and Lucy didn't want to do anything with him
Make sure you point out how Lucy, a trained ethicist (and historian to boot) quoting Christ’s improvement to Hammurabi’s code, is shown to be a judgmental hypocrite by Cooper applying Hammurabi directly… and she’s straight shocked that he wins that argument, all of which happens without a word spoken (before he gloats about it). There’s a reason she’s basically his disciple by the end of the season.
I'd still argue Cooper is a Monster, at least Morally. Pre-War he not only was a famous actor and a Cowboy, but he was also an experienced Veteran from the Alaskan Anchorage. He fought to defend his country and the resources it needed. He even gave the West-Tek guy crap for the flaws in the early T-45 PA designs that cost lives on the battlefield. All this makes the moment when learning his wife was willing to bomb his country was he so horrified. Where as in the wasteland he's a Bounty Hunter. During his introduction as a Ghoul he literally says he does it for sport rather than caps. He was willing to blast off his target's leg and shot up the whole town just to complete the contract. Even going as far to joke to a guy whose neck he shot out when he told him he could've overed him a tato had he not done so. Even with Lucy he cut off her finger and was willing to sell her to have her organs harvested in return for his anti-feral meds. So yeah I'd say family man Coop would very much be horrified by the man he'd become once his whole world burned down-literally.
Great video! The way you pack your points in such a short duration feels super efficient for an analysis this well made. Very well structured as well. Also to add to your point on Cooper shooting both the other ghoul and the movie's villain juxtaposed on the same episode, I'd argue that it actually paints Cooper as less of a monster. Cooper shooting the villain in the movie was an action his character took because studio executives wanted to portray some sort of "no mercy for the wicked" sentiment in the movie (Cooper, of course, is reluctant to take that action even fictionally) while the shot he took on the ghoul was actually made from a place of kindness. Cooper not only chose to kill the ghoul to spare him of the fate of going feral, but he made a point of taking him back to good memories first so he would die thinking of happier times and to shoot him while in the middle of reminiscing so he wouldn't have to dread his fate. I believe there's some of that in Lucy as well, though I'm not thinking of any particular scenes right now, it's very in character for her to have kindness at heart even if she decides to do something horrible to someone. I'm not sure if this is a point they were trying to make, but a phenomenon that has been observed in real life is that times of hardship tend to make people more inclined to actively be kind and help others and an apocalypse/post-apocalypse is a very clear case of "time of hardship".
I Love analysis like this. I would argue a different way about if cooper is warped from his past self. He is warped now, and desperately clings to whats left of his humanity. He is past the man he was pre fallout. But he also began changing pre fallout. Instead of putting his foot down and forcing the story to arrest the bad guy he lets himself be talked into the killing scene. Add years of fallout and now killing isnt much of a budge for him. Hes already been pushed to it over and over and over again. And when pushed he will change. Cut to present. Remember filly just tried to stop him from taking the professor. He didnt have anything against filly. He just shot them down because so many people have tried to stop him from what he believes is good or what he needs to do to live and killing is now his second nature. A lot of his actions after can be read from that too. People keep getting in the way whether they want to or not and depending on how much theyre out to hurt him he can go a lot further than pre fallout cooper can. Prewar cooper would never imagine feeding someone like lucy to the wolves in order to get his needs. Postwar cooper does it easily because hes been pushed to those ends before. Its just a little easier now. His humanity is the only thing making him go out of his way to make sure she lives through being monster bait. I also see lucy's second interaction with feral ghouls being her learning the lesson. I don't see it as a "no im not as cruel as you. I did it another way." when she returns. More of a "i get it now, you were right. But I dont need to treat others as horribly as you do. I choose the high ground and that means being good even to you." This lesson being learned allows her to mercy kill at the end as she knows theres nothing left for her to reach out to. If she still needed to learn that after the store, she wouldve looked for any other way considering who it was. But she didnt need to cause she learned it at the store. She knows theres nothing left. Its not the unthinkable or the last resort. Its the only solution. Tldr: You've got another subscriber. Keep up the good work.
I think people would love to see a open discussion between you Schnee and other contributors... i think seeing you all explore these ideas would be just as interesting as your analysis
Loved the connection between the different morality system. Same outcome different path, Lucy was just hesitant and empathetic while cooper was swift and respectful. Great stuff
This is such a good analogy! What an awesome video to randomly come across! I think the show uses Cooper as a ghoul to confuse our presumed definition of him as a monster. They make an effort to show him as a monster in other characters' eyes, too. He's The Ghoul, right? THE Ghoul. But he's never actually compared to other ghouls except as a matter of exclusion. He's different. He's bee a ghoul for literal centuries - but he's not feral. Even as he's laying there without his ghouljuice, he's not twitching or showing any signs of going feral in the same way. That is such pointed direction to me. I'm excited to see how it goes!
I think you basically put into words all of the abstract feelings I had towards these scenes and both their characters after I finished the show. I had all the pieces and knew generally how they were supposed to fit, I just didn't fully put them together till now. Fantastic video, id love to see more fallout stuff from you, specifically a video on Ulysses from the Lonesome Road DLC. He's a very interesting and genuinely deep character that I feel unfairly gets written off as edgy or ignored because "mucho texto".
Holy shit this is really your first video? It was so well edited and the delivery was really good! I’m glad I’ve been mainlining Fallout content since the show so the algorithm dropped this in my recommended.
This was an amazing watch. It was so eloquently put and I was hooked the entire time. I feel like many video essays don't have a point or just devolve into summaries or ramblings. Which has never stopped me from watching them lol, but still. That being said, you're video was so well structured and thought provoking, I am in awe of your writing and analysis skills. Thank you!
There is just something about this show that is fantastic. I haven't been this excited to hear people talk and talk to other people about a show since Lost. I'm an absolute nerd about the game, and it took me a bit to realize its far more than that. Really enjoyed the video, and if this is your very first one I'm all in for the rest!
I like how you frame this, as both characters of Lucy and coop commit some fairly monstrous acts, with coop committing far more, but neither really commit those acts as monsters as you describe. And I look forward to seeing how this framework adjusts as we move into season 2
Gotta disagree with you and the video, Cooper is literally a renowned bounty hunter that’s so useful; but dangerous that he’s gotta be kept under ground in between high value targets. That’s quite literally a monster.
@@michaelsoper98 yea that’s fair, dude definitely is long gone and if I’m looking at it without the context of his background then what you’re saying makes sense. But as viewers we have that context, and because of that we get see the sides that are sympathetic, the creators I think are trying to show us that while they commit these acts that are monstrous, they aren’t entirely monsters
@@sir_captainmorgan I agree entirely; he’s a monster but he’s not necessarily monstrous. He was forced into being this way if he wanted to survive and he was wronged by the one he was supposed to trust the most.
Great video! However, I do have some opinions that differ. I myself interpreted the line "Oh, I'm you sweetie-just give it a little time." Literally; as in given enough exposure to radiation, she'd become a ghoul as well. And her handing the vials to him just before exclaiming "golden rule mf" was Lucy's way at getting back at Coop for not helping her after clearly being dehydrated from walking the wasteland-instead of helping he poured out his canteen in front of her. (I believe it was irratiated water anyway as ghouls are not only immune but healed by radiation, and he was teaching her a lesson that she didnt learn in the vault:do what you can to survive) Furthermore, the idea Cooper's morality hasn't changed is just dead wrong. The pre-war Cooper wouldn't cut a ladies finger off and sell her for her organs for the ghoul equivalent of drugs lmao-the war changed him. I think what the show was trying to get at by juxtaposing these characters in the way they did: is how two different people from entirely different backgrounds come together based on their morality. Good vid tho love the thought experiment 👌🏼 Keep it up! 👍🏻 Subscribed 🤙🏻
I still feel that Cooper is protecting himself by hiding behind his cowboy character. He is projecting this gruff exterior in order to protect the parts of himself that would look at what he is doing and be appalled at his actions. Still a very good read on both Lucy and Cooper. I subbed just in the off chance that you make more of these kinds of videos. Cheers!
Great video! Thanks so much for your hard work! Videos like this always get the creative thoughts flowing. I like to think of these differences in reactions as reactions to two different worlds falling apart. The idea of THE world falling, and THEIR world falling apart. Did the character already have a clear dividing line between the two or were they forced to draw one after the death of the other? It seems like the two of them saw the world as one. That THEIR world was THE world, and the story is about bring shape to both as complex, separate yet interlaced entities within their perception.
You're exposition is very nice set up for telling for the rest of the video!! :D Can't wait to see you take off! I'm sticking around! So many well wishes and good luck for you!
I really that you are providing positive feedback and literary analysis here. It is great when you can learn in a constructive way and gain a deeper appreciation for the metrology behind the story writing. Great video!
Fantastic vidya! Gods, I was convinced that Fallout was unadaptable, I was over encumbered with doubt that this series would get anywhere close to good. I was thoroughly flabbergasted by the detailed faithfulness, the character depth, the accessibility for non fans, and more than all of those- the true to form Fallout tone. I’ve been gushing about it to anyone who’ll listen, because I swear I didn’t think it was possible to do it right. The choice to depict every character and group clearly having to make hard decisions all the time, and developing their own sense of morality based on that reality. But also being deliciously subtle about the moral hypocrisy inherent in people in general. Especially in Hank and Moldavar. Hank choosing to save his daughter over multiple vault dwellers, one life over many. It’s totally understandable to most viewers in the moment, even though the moral math is wrong. Moldavar was clearly in love with Rose, and yet kept her around even after she went feral. It’s the kind of cruelty that love makes people capable of. Hank’s line about Moldavar being a murderer ‘Just like him’ recognizing that she is just as capable of atrocity to serve her own values as he is. And also Thaddeus with his whole ‘bullying out of self preservation’ thing. Centering the show on the moral decisions, was such a baller move! “Everybody wants to save the world, they just disagree on how.” Sorry for the paragraph, so excited for your next video now, so stick around! ❤
9:33 my only disagreement would be here at this point, where in the movie set cooper asks not to shoot the man and is directed to do so. whereas post apocalyptic cooper pulls the trigger with no outside actors pushing him to do so. I felt that this was a huge indicator that cooper was a more moral man pre apocalypse. The rest of this video was great tho excited to see you grow!
this was so well done!! from the organization to the cute chibi on screen-i also love the idea of pre-war cooper understanding post-war cooper’s actions and motivations and how, despite the “monstrous” appearance, his character is not a monster (or maybe will be one if necessary but not on instinct). i can’t wait to see where these characters go in season 2 😭😭😭
When the Coop tells Lucy that he’s her, I knew that he meant that he was once as idealistic as she is, but living in the wasteland will eat at your soul.
I think its deeper than that. Cooper is still Idealistic. But in a systemic structure that literally does not give him the options he wants to take. So he winds up choosing to make worse decisions. And becomes numb to it. The way most people become numb to the shitty decisions out own system compels us to accept as good.
I think there's a 3rd thing that makes an apocolyps monster. And number 3 is that they enjoy it. Doing what you need to do to survive is one thing. Being needlessly cruel because you find it fun is a whole different thing.
Fantastic breakdown of their character. I thought it was gonna be a bit of a stretch when you came up with your monster definition, but you brought it home in the end.
Really good character analysis. I noticed some of the parallels between the characters, but I didn't make a conscious connection between them. What a good video hope to see more
Great video and analysis. Really enjoyed. The one thing I would say though is that Coop is actually more of a "monster" than Lucy because of his complete disregard for human life. Sure he had the mercy killing scene of his ghoul friend, but in Filly he indiscriminately murderered / mamed a large number of people, he even deliberately antagonized that one guy's kid Tommy to get him to draw his weapon so he could kill him in front of his dad. Coop doesnt just act in self defense. He is damn near unkillable and casually took multiple bullets to the back in Filly. He doesnt just kill people / blow their limbs off to the necessary degree for his own safety - he goes above and beyond. In the first episode he says he does it for the love of the game. In reality i think hes bitter about the world and is giving out his form of justice, rather than actually enjoying the thrill of combat or killing. But nevertheless, Lucy never does anything like this. The worst she did was throw acid on that scientists face in vault 4 when she was desperately trying to escape and basically in a frantic state like a cornered prey animal. Coop is never in that kind of desperate situation, hes in control at all times yet blows people apart casually even when its not necessary.
FOR THE RECORD I 100% agree that Cooper is a terrible person, BUT if we are asking the question of whether he was fundamentally emotionally altered by the apocalypse (the kind of monster I talked about here), I’d say that’s much more of a grey area
@@squircleworks42 I trully do not understand how you could argue that. Pre war he is a moral man, and only through great physical and emotional deconstruction does he get to where he is later. Cooper would be HORRIFIED by what the ghoul does, especially to that young boy. Just because there exists some sort of ideological or thematic through line between the two instances of his personality does not mean they are identical. People can change
Cooper Howard was a good man The Ghoul is someone that does what he must to survive in the wasteland he is correct if Lucy is to survive outside of her vault, she will have to become less good and more ghoul.
This is just an engagement comment, and I haven't watched the show. I see at least three ways to answer the question of the thumbmail. Is cooper a monster, according to apocalypse naratives? (The direction you spoke on.) Acording to our societie's morals. (Discussed in the chat.) And according to the societies of the world he lives in. (Which is brushed on when discussing Lucy's opinion of his actions before and after she's willing to shoot a ghoul in the head when not in self defense. But has room for more discussion.) Also, here from Schnee's Angel Dust video.
It's absolutely poetic that the _"Nuclear Family"_ results in nukes going off for said family, maybe the true family is the nukes we find along the way? Or something something family never changes :D
Wonderfully done analysis. Kudos! The brilliance of the writing is that it never seems forced and evolves in an organic way with both Lucy and Cooper. Another factor that underlies their arcs is PTSD ... Cooper from his service as a Marine in Alaska and 219 years in the Wasteland, and Lucy from the trials and tribulations that begin in Vault 33 and that culminates in the final scene. So, the Ghoul's line about "you're me, just give it a bit of time" resonates with any veteran, whether from Vietnam or Afghanistan.
Today I learned I will not become become an apocalypse monster. However I suspect that is because I’m already a monster. This is such a well researched and understood review 10/10 :)
This is funny, im getting to find so many channels through recommendations and they all turn out amazing! B Sanderson -> Local -> Schnee -> Squircle, wonder where its going
Very good point about how other wastlanders see Lucy vs how The Ghoul sees her. At first we see him as cruel and merciless but this show is great at perspective, and we gradually come to see he does have mercy in his own way. But even more interesting is that the Ghoul recognizes Lucy as being like him. Both Lucy and the Ghoul start out in a place of privilege due to their circumstance and luck. Both believe the world opperates a certain way and then both have their world shattered by soneone in their own family doing something horrible. The difference like the Ghoul mentioned is time. The Ghoul has had centuries to stew on his mistakes and life. Lucys only begun her journey and had already become much more hardened.
You said this was your first video? If yes, Excellent work! Your voice is wonderful for this type of content, and your pacing of speech was superb as well. The one comment I can make is merely a personal preference, that being the presence of small amounts of humor. Good humor comes from a place of comfort, so take your time and don’t rush it if you wish to add humor to your analyses.
I find a comment that you made interesting. You say around 3:40 that Vault-Tec proposed dropping the bomb themselves to eliminate their competitors. Barb's line saying they'd do this was in response to House asking how they can guarantee that there will be results, that the money put into their sponsorship of the vaults will not be wasted. My interpretation is that Vault-Tec would be willing to drop the bomb to ensure that their product will be used and to ensure that they will be able to shape some sort of society, rather than a simple elimination of competition.
I don’t know if this is the actual lore of fallout, but I can’t imagine anyone would ever do something like that to eliminate competition. People are short sighted, but not that short sighted
Excited to see what you do with your channel. Impressive initial upload! I think you should mine Fallout for a while for the clicks, then focus on whatever you like. I want to hear your opinions on things I haven't seen, or have decided not to see. Perhaps it might change my mind, and it will definitely be a nice watch!
This is really interesting! Really flew over my head as I watched the show. I'm looking forward to your future video essays and I hope you gain more subs!
The fact he made the other ghoul think about a happy and warm memory before his mind forever eroded to nothing, shows this man has more heart than half the wasteland does. I don’t even think that them knowing eachother was the reason for that. Guy literally empathizes with him, understands the hell he is going through as that is a hell in Coopers future. And instead of justifying the instant killing of him via Fear of this future. Gives the guy an end he would want: as much of a peaceful death for a ghoul that can’t die in its sleep of old age.
If I remember right, in the movie scene where his character kills the guy, he objected to the portrayal and didn't like that direction for the character. His last cocky line in that scene sets up this righteous anger or vengeance in the act. I love that juxtaposition with how he handles the ghoul, a similar "Talking to a stricken person" scene, Coop the person approaches it with compassion and care, being the person he wanted his character to model. The show has so many beautiful moments of that setup and comparison and linking and modeling
War never changes, and there's a line of thinking that people just need an excuse to be their worst selves, but in the end, even for people who appear at their worst, those moments of care and compassion don't change either. They're just as much a part of humanity, possibly the most core part in what even makes a person human. In a scene directly showing him facing a future he fears, where he becomes an unthinking monster, in that moment he shows his compassion strongly in the face of it
I like that in the Hollywood scene he won’t shoot the guy because of his morales and how he wants to be merciful, even in fiction, and in the wasteland he does shoot the ghoul as an act of mercy like you said, this shows that in the end he was still being merciful both ways
Are you guys forgetting he ATE the guy afterwards?
@@theandrogynousmisogynist I mean, it'd be rude to just waste protein in a survival situation
@@theandrogynousmisogynist well…. A fella’s gotta eat a fella.
I think a very important detail you missed is that the last time Cooper saw Wilzig, he was at least able to walk on his own and the next time he sees him is a decapitated body. He didn't know about the cyanide pill Wilzig took. He didn't know that Wilzig himself asked to decapitate him. He saw the body and thought: "Woah. So short on the surface and she already ready to kill." Or he was simply confused. Thaddeus and Maximus even were pretty sure that it must have been the Ghoul who murdered Wilzig. But Cooper knew that it had to be Lucy.
ooooh that's actually a really interesting theory. I'll have to chew on it for a while
@squircleworks42 i just wanted to say, its Coopers character that shoots the guy in the movie, not Cooper. Cooper argues with the director to try to convince him to just arrest him instead of shooting him. Pre-war Cooper almost seems anti-gun, a stark contrast to The Ghoul.
@@gbazo762 He was the kind of guy who was willing to die in a fire with his dog, instead of not bringing his dog into a vault. He might as well have said okey dokey about something.
yes. this. after my first watch of this vid I went back and rewatched the show twice. I noticed this, and am commenting such for no other reason than I am superficially proud of the very UNimportant fact that we had a similar thought for the same reason lol.
@@squircleworks42I am you just give it a little time
Wow, neither of them actually grow at all? It's almost like, war, it like, you know, it's like it, it doesn't become different very much.
War never changes, but people do. It’s easy to forget that there used to be more to that famous line that can change the way it’s applied.
I like to think they still grow but can keep their morality intact
John fallout: war doesn’t change
@@lockdownmc8685 John War even
@@lockdownmc8685lmfao is this a reference to John Halo and his less succesful counter Part Jimmy Rings?
To add onto your point about Coop’s “fishing,” when he sees that his medicine was destroyed during the scuffle with the gulper, he is initially very angry and threatens Lucy at gunpoint, but then relents when she points out that given his actions, he really has no right. He seems to innately understand and accept the idea that because he did bad to her, bad was done to him. He accepts this internally even as he outwardly scoffs at Lucy’s invocation of the Golden Rule.
Mirroring Lucy’s denial of his own codes
LoL, umm no he just needed her in one piece to get more medicine. The better the shape, the better payout.
@@meoff7602 It could be both. In order to survive the wasteland you need four things First: A sharp/quick mind to think of a solution to your current problem. Second a silver tongue to talk or barter your way out of trouble. Third being a quickdraw. The final thing you need is to understand that you may die because of a number of things. So make your peace with your actions before doing so because you don't have time for regrets.
Cooper survived the Wasteland not by shooting at everything that got in his way. There were probably times where he had to think his way out of trouble. So when his Rad-X were destroy he became pissed but when look over his actions he conceded it was his fault. Then his mind thought "Hey we got a perfectly good Vault Dweller to sell to get more Rad-X." Cooper had made peace that he may die before getting to see his family again but that doesn't mean he won't fight till his last breathe.
I COMPLETELY MISSED THAT. Nice 👏
@@meoff7602 Brother, here’s some advice for free: nobody likes an “umm, actually” clown. They don’t like em’ when they’re right, and they like em’ even less when they’re wrong.
Watch the scene again, and this time pay attention. There’s thematic intent behind Lucy saying those words, Cooper visibly reacts to them. When he draws his gun on Lucy in a rage he’s not thinking rationally and he doesn’t snap out of it because he suddenly knows he needs to sell her whole.
It’s like you interpreted the scene through the most robotic, functionalist perspective possible instead of someone who understands emotional and thematic context.
You could also argue that Maldaver started both of their journeys, and changed their whole view of vault-tec also.
parallels and throughlines. beautiful to see such intention again.
btw how DID Maldaver survive just like the vault 31 "staff"? She couldn't have been part of vault tec when the bombs dropped, and she ain't no ghoul either... did i miss that explanation?
@@EGOR.d07 we dont have that answer yet. we know she did cold fusion and opposed vault tec , we arent sure how she got to the future but cryogenics seems the best or only way.
@@tobiwonkanogy2975 I think she's just a long line of clones with the same memories (wild speculation)
@@dr.vikyll7466very wild.. makes No sense
I really like that you brought up the scene where Cooper kills the other ghoul because not only is he basically mercy killing him before he goes feral. But he also distracts him showing that he genuinely cares and wanted his last thoughts to be of something good and his last acts to be him laughing rather than being afraid of dying or turning into a ghoul. Its a show of true kindness and is something that if Cooper was morally gone, wouldnt have cared enough about to do since if he didnt care he would have just shot him once he realized he was too far gone
That scene plus the scene when he didn't kill dog meat were the big signals for me that cooper was meant to be a complex protagonist. Like he uses living things as tools but he's never senselessly cruel. Well except maybe the scene where he doesn't give Lucy water.
@@Creationweek he wasnt giving her water because his is irradiated, thats why they show him filling it later
And then he goes for some ass jerky
@@holographicsupernova863 Yep. And if she wants to drink irradiated water, it'll be her choice. He won't just offer it to her, its on her.
yeah I definitely agree here. I feel like there's something interesting (and possibly VERY complex) there if you compare Cooper's thoughtful mercy kill and Moldaver's choice to keep Rose alive
When I first watched the scene when Cooper killed the Rodger I instantly understood it for the kindness that it was. When I was a kid we read "Of Mice and Men" in school. I instantly saw the similarity
Same here.
My friends and I literally said "Look at the rabbits, Lennie." when we watched that scene. Absolutely incredible stuff
One thing you glossed over is that Cooper was hesitant about killing the man on the western show, not that it disproves what you said but I feel an opportunity was missed to draw another through line to Lucy's character development
Damn.
great point, both lucy and cooper showed hesitancy to kill a man, (real or not). It's actually four scenes, except we reuse cooper's last scene and lucy's first scene togther.
I was searching for a comment like this from the moment she mentioned that scene! Ultimately Cooper changed his stance right there in hollywood. He killed the character for his own survival, they just fired the lead writer, why not Cooper himself too?
Great point, he does spend some time in that episode trying to get them to change the scene because it isn't "in character" for him to execute a man like that
Eh, Lucy killing that ghoul in the store isn’t the same as the Ghoul killing his friend. His friend was a mercy kill, Lucy’s kill is in self-defense, so morally they have different weights. I’m with you on their parallels when Lucy puts down her mom though.
One thing that you get close to but don’t quite pick up is this: the shop lady and the doctor tell Lucy they don’t think she has what it takes, but they don’t try to force her to change.
The Ghoul tries to push her into becoming like him. He wants her to become like him to prove to himself that he needed to become the monster he is.
He sees his old self in her, the moral do-gooder, always looking out for others, ect.
If Lucy is able to survive in the wasteland without becoming a monster, it just shows that he wasn’t strong enough to survive while sticking to his morals.
He needs her to become a monster. Not for her survival, but for his.
damn honestly if that last part is right it would be so good.
Yesssss. This guy gets it. I see Coop's arc as a series of compromises of what his previous self would consider in-character for him. First is the scene of him shooting the man he would have previously only arrested. Then, he lies to and spies on his wife. As a ghoul, he gives Lucy to organ harvesters so he can re-up on Rad-x. There's NO WAY pre-fall Coop would've done that. I think the video of his not-arrest serves to remind him of who he was before he started down this path, and to hint to us that maybe he's not so far gone that he can't be more like that again.
Lucy wanted to make love to just about anyone. It’s really sad.
I think the important thing was Lucy seeing that sometimes killing, tho wrong on her moral level, is sometimes the only option.
Kinda a dark lesson, but this is Fallout we’re talking about
i think her first ghoul kill isn't so much meant to mirror his, but to show her why he did what he did, and she uses that experiance to make the descision to mercy kill her mom later. It's not the same beats but it 100% plays into that evolution, and helps her make that decision. Super interesting point about the ghoul "needing" her to become him, never thopught about it like that.
I am ecstatic to see another literary analysist on the TH-cam scene and also that I have the honor to provide your first comment. You got this!
*fights the urge to print out this comment and tape it to my bathroom mirror*
@squircleworks42 don't fight the inevitable.
This is the most polite way to say "first" I've ever seen
@@squircleworks42 I'd say do it. Let it be a reminder if/when you get big that you've had supporters from the very beginning. I imagine it'd be comforting in hard times.
@@anyderrosek9272 first EVER comment, I had to do something worthwhile
Haven't seen fallout. I just have an unhealthy addiction to analysis video essays
Always happy to be an enabler 😅
eh tu lol
If you play New Vegas, there's essentially an infinite amount of analysis videos on the merits of its different factions, a debate that remains unsettled to this day
Well if you stay interested, welcome to the fallout party! I’m sure there’s more interesting stuff to find for you in that franchise (unpopular opinion but I think it’s actually smarter than elder scrolls)
I was quite sure the series would be abismal failure. But the more i hear about it the better it sounds like. At least it is FAR better than i would have expected
War. War never changes
OMG I FORGOT ABOUT THAT QUOTE gosh DARN it that’s such a critical thing I missed
I kept waiting for that quote around 5:10 to 5:20 and was so surprised it didn’t show up.
Anyone else read that in Ron Perlmans voice or just me?
Incredible that the show gave us two different interpretations of that line. One from Coop's wife, and Coop's 200 year reply.
Yep. This to me is the theme of Fallout, the entire "game universe". When hardcore fallout 1 fans get upset at bethesdas fallout, "there is no society", I point to this. There have been attempts at societies, like the minutemen trying to band together before the events of fallout 4, but it fails due to "war never changes"
Still can’t believe we got so much depth in a Fallout tv show.
You could make paint drying interesting if you have good writers.
If only the games had this level of consideration nowerdays :)
@@Tommy-qc4rj the last game came out seven years ago what are you talking about?
@@Tommy-qc4rj Bro never played New Vegas.
@@SSD_Penumbra I have, and Fallout 2.
The only two worth my time.
He feels different, because he too came from a civilized place. He is simply referring to how rules change when circumstance goes from civilized to survival
He feels sexually astounding
Apt to real life too. Great observation
@@michaelpacinus242what?
@@PluralOfSillyGoose it feels good 😊 the show is a metaphor
Ok now I have to know how you would characterize the show's competing moral system. Moldaver kept the mom alive as a ghoul, what's going on there? 🧐(And does that connect with her whole electricity plan?)
That's a really good question. I'd also like to know what's up with episode 1. Like, if Moldaver is supposedly trying to help people, why does she wreak such havoc on vault 33? Couldn't she have just stuck up the place and taken what she came for instead of trying to massacre everyone? Did she hate vaults and the overseers from 31 so much that she was willing to kill people for seemingly no functional reason whatsoever? Obviously there's some sort of "show these sheltered, privileged fools what the real world is like" energy to that, but for someone who explicitly works to benefit the community over the individual, it seems impractical to both end lives that you know next to nothing about - lives that could be taught differently and that could help rebuild - and to risk the lives of your own community in such a violent display.
I have to wonder, is there a flaw in the writing there? Is Moldaver just that vindictive? Is there some third thing I'm not considering? Squircle had some interesting points in this video, and I'd love to hear what they have to say about all that (as well as other parts of Fallout, of course).
Yeeeeaaah Moldaver definitely deserves her own video. I think that the first scene where she gives an ultimatum to Maclean back in the vault (Lucy vs everyone else) (that also isn’t actually an ultimatum??) is probably the key to figuring out what her character is supposed to be, but I haven’t tackled it yet
@@squircleworks42 I was so confused by that
"choose but actually I'm not going to kill any of them"
either that's a plot hole
or somehow moldaver meant something else with "choose" that we just assumed meant choose who dies because that's what it means 9 times out of 10
Mom was kept alive because they were "roommates"
@@PunkFluff oh my god they were roommates
my take on cooper shooting rodger in the head being echoed by him watching himself shoot jorge in the head, tells the audience that he hasnt made the decision to do the things he does, but his hand has been forced to pull the trigger. much like the director forcing him to give in to his morals and be a killer, the apocalypse has forced him to become a killer. he still has his morals deep down. its just the circumstances do not allow him to act as the "good" guy.
That’s a really neat interpretation, thank you for sharing
I see it more as him realizing how much he has changed.
He went from being reluctant to portray a character who would kill a villain , to being a man who would kill (and eat) a friend when it was necessary.
Was going to say this too
This!
I don’t buy it personally. Yeah if we look at cooper shooting a ghoul who was well on his way to be feral. He ain’t that bad. It was a mercy kill and a survival measure. However not long after he’s trying to sell arguably the most moral person in the wasteland for organ harvesting. A pretty dark extreme for some meds. Considering we all know he could just as easily walk in there and take the place over without any real effort.
Honestly this is one of the best Fallout character analysis vids i've seen in a long ass time.
Let me just say, this show only recently came out. So idk what your timeline is.
@@michaelpacinus242 Probably a reference to the games, as TH-cam has LOADS of Fallout character analysis of game characters
Coop goes out of control when he gets access to the chems stash at Super Duper mart. Which in turn sends him on the nostalgia spiral w/ the videos of his glory, and more out of control with more chems
Cooper is our link to the pre war and all those cryo podded vault tec employees, i think thats why he has so much flashbacks and scenes from the past
The difference in reasoning with Roger and Jorge is that Cooper shoots Roger to put him out of his misery. Roger is going to go feral (already is in the throes) and there is nothing that can stop it. He puts him out of his misery. He even has him remember a happy moment just before doing so. Cooper originally protests about shooting Jorge because it's not what his character--his image--would do. We know the movie ends this way, but did Cooper stick to his guns and they edited that in later? I wonder about that. Or maybe he gave in because he was under contract and had no choice. He's Fallout's version of Omar: "A ghoul''s got to have a code." I think Cooper somewhere follows his own code. We just don't know what it is just yet.
I have to agree, there is a code. He could have just walked into that supermarket and taken those chems, there is nothing they could have done to stop him, but traded for them. He still believes in working for things rather than taking them.
It might be the biggest crackpipe theory out there BUT
I noticed this one more detail to the Lucy/Cooper duality. Cooper took Lucy's finger and used it as a replacement for his missing finger, trigger finger no less. This might indicate some change to his character cause now he has a part of Lucy's righteousness in this gun-shooting digit of his. At the end the two of them kinda partnered up while before that Cooper used her and Lucy didn't want to do anything with him
yeah the finger swap ALONE deserves its own video
Make sure you point out how Lucy, a trained ethicist (and historian to boot) quoting Christ’s improvement to Hammurabi’s code, is shown to be a judgmental hypocrite by Cooper applying Hammurabi directly… and she’s straight shocked that he wins that argument, all of which happens without a word spoken (before he gloats about it). There’s a reason she’s basically his disciple by the end of the season.
I'd still argue Cooper is a Monster, at least Morally. Pre-War he not only was a famous actor and a Cowboy, but he was also an experienced Veteran from the Alaskan Anchorage. He fought to defend his country and the resources it needed. He even gave the West-Tek guy crap for the flaws in the early T-45 PA designs that cost lives on the battlefield. All this makes the moment when learning his wife was willing to bomb his country was he so horrified. Where as in the wasteland he's a Bounty Hunter. During his introduction as a Ghoul he literally says he does it for sport rather than caps. He was willing to blast off his target's leg and shot up the whole town just to complete the contract. Even going as far to joke to a guy whose neck he shot out when he told him he could've overed him a tato had he not done so. Even with Lucy he cut off her finger and was willing to sell her to have her organs harvested in return for his anti-feral meds. So yeah I'd say family man Coop would very much be horrified by the man he'd become once his whole world burned down-literally.
Here from Schnee. Love your work together and looking forward to seeing more of your own stuff!
Oh no I'm about to schneeze
Great video! The way you pack your points in such a short duration feels super efficient for an analysis this well made. Very well structured as well.
Also to add to your point on Cooper shooting both the other ghoul and the movie's villain juxtaposed on the same episode, I'd argue that it actually paints Cooper as less of a monster.
Cooper shooting the villain in the movie was an action his character took because studio executives wanted to portray some sort of "no mercy for the wicked" sentiment in the movie (Cooper, of course, is reluctant to take that action even fictionally) while the shot he took on the ghoul was actually made from a place of kindness. Cooper not only chose to kill the ghoul to spare him of the fate of going feral, but he made a point of taking him back to good memories first so he would die thinking of happier times and to shoot him while in the middle of reminiscing so he wouldn't have to dread his fate.
I believe there's some of that in Lucy as well, though I'm not thinking of any particular scenes right now, it's very in character for her to have kindness at heart even if she decides to do something horrible to someone.
I'm not sure if this is a point they were trying to make, but a phenomenon that has been observed in real life is that times of hardship tend to make people more inclined to actively be kind and help others and an apocalypse/post-apocalypse is a very clear case of "time of hardship".
I Love analysis like this.
I would argue a different way about if cooper is warped from his past self. He is warped now, and desperately clings to whats left of his humanity. He is past the man he was pre fallout. But he also began changing pre fallout.
Instead of putting his foot down and forcing the story to arrest the bad guy he lets himself be talked into the killing scene. Add years of fallout and now killing isnt much of a budge for him. Hes already been pushed to it over and over and over again. And when pushed he will change.
Cut to present. Remember filly just tried to stop him from taking the professor. He didnt have anything against filly. He just shot them down because so many people have tried to stop him from what he believes is good or what he needs to do to live and killing is now his second nature.
A lot of his actions after can be read from that too. People keep getting in the way whether they want to or not and depending on how much theyre out to hurt him he can go a lot further than pre fallout cooper can.
Prewar cooper would never imagine feeding someone like lucy to the wolves in order to get his needs. Postwar cooper does it easily because hes been pushed to those ends before. Its just a little easier now. His humanity is the only thing making him go out of his way to make sure she lives through being monster bait.
I also see lucy's second interaction with feral ghouls being her learning the lesson. I don't see it as a "no im not as cruel as you. I did it another way." when she returns. More of a "i get it now, you were right. But I dont need to treat others as horribly as you do. I choose the high ground and that means being good even to you."
This lesson being learned allows her to mercy kill at the end as she knows theres nothing left for her to reach out to. If she still needed to learn that after the store, she wouldve looked for any other way considering who it was. But she didnt need to cause she learned it at the store. She knows theres nothing left. Its not the unthinkable or the last resort. Its the only solution.
Tldr: You've got another subscriber. Keep up the good work.
This is an amazing video, I’ve been looking for fallout content like this! Here from schnee, I’m so glad to have found you!!
Came from schnee, you guys cooked on that angeldust analysis. can’t wait to see more vids from u
I think people would love to see a open discussion between you Schnee and other contributors... i think seeing you all explore these ideas would be just as interesting as your analysis
Loved the connection between the different morality system. Same outcome different path, Lucy was just hesitant and empathetic while cooper was swift and respectful. Great stuff
Damn, I was fully prepped to binge several of your videos, only to find this is your first, I will be waiting
This is such a good analogy! What an awesome video to randomly come across!
I think the show uses Cooper as a ghoul to confuse our presumed definition of him as a monster. They make an effort to show him as a monster in other characters' eyes, too. He's The Ghoul, right? THE Ghoul.
But he's never actually compared to other ghouls except as a matter of exclusion. He's different. He's bee a ghoul for literal centuries - but he's not feral.
Even as he's laying there without his ghouljuice, he's not twitching or showing any signs of going feral in the same way. That is such pointed direction to me.
I'm excited to see how it goes!
Glad to have clicked on this video from the youtube homepage, really nice analysis
I think you basically put into words all of the abstract feelings I had towards these scenes and both their characters after I finished the show. I had all the pieces and knew generally how they were supposed to fit, I just didn't fully put them together till now. Fantastic video, id love to see more fallout stuff from you, specifically a video on Ulysses from the Lonesome Road DLC. He's a very interesting and genuinely deep character that I feel unfairly gets written off as edgy or ignored because "mucho texto".
Holy shit this is really your first video? It was so well edited and the delivery was really good!
I’m glad I’ve been mainlining Fallout content since the show so the algorithm dropped this in my recommended.
i foresee great things for this channel
You just gained another subscriber! I waited 16 years for this show and I'm glad to see it's getting the respect it deserves.
Wow. Just wow. probably the best analytical video I’ve seen on this show. Amazing work
This was an amazing watch. It was so eloquently put and I was hooked the entire time. I feel like many video essays don't have a point or just devolve into summaries or ramblings. Which has never stopped me from watching them lol, but still. That being said, you're video was so well structured and thought provoking, I am in awe of your writing and analysis skills. Thank you!
BTW, Great first video. Great talent and lots more potential. I send my thanks to your friends for pushing you to launch! Bold!
There is just something about this show that is fantastic. I haven't been this excited to hear people talk and talk to other people about a show since Lost. I'm an absolute nerd about the game, and it took me a bit to realize its far more than that. Really enjoyed the video, and if this is your very first one I'm all in for the rest!
I like how you frame this, as both characters of Lucy and coop commit some fairly monstrous acts, with coop committing far more, but neither really commit those acts as monsters as you describe. And I look forward to seeing how this framework adjusts as we move into season 2
Gotta disagree with you and the video, Cooper is literally a renowned bounty hunter that’s so useful; but dangerous that he’s gotta be kept under ground in between high value targets. That’s quite literally a monster.
@@michaelsoper98 yea that’s fair, dude definitely is long gone and if I’m looking at it without the context of his background then what you’re saying makes sense. But as viewers we have that context, and because of that we get see the sides that are sympathetic, the creators I think are trying to show us that while they commit these acts that are monstrous, they aren’t entirely monsters
@@sir_captainmorgan I agree entirely; he’s a monster but he’s not necessarily monstrous. He was forced into being this way if he wanted to survive and he was wronged by the one he was supposed to trust the most.
Great video! However, I do have some opinions that differ. I myself interpreted the line "Oh, I'm you sweetie-just give it a little time." Literally; as in given enough exposure to radiation, she'd become a ghoul as well. And her handing the vials to him just before exclaiming "golden rule mf" was Lucy's way at getting back at Coop for not helping her after clearly being dehydrated from walking the wasteland-instead of helping he poured out his canteen in front of her. (I believe it was irratiated water anyway as ghouls are not only immune but healed by radiation, and he was teaching her a lesson that she didnt learn in the vault:do what you can to survive) Furthermore, the idea Cooper's morality hasn't changed is just dead wrong. The pre-war Cooper wouldn't cut a ladies finger off and sell her for her organs for the ghoul equivalent of drugs lmao-the war changed him. I think what the show was trying to get at by juxtaposing these characters in the way they did: is how two different people from entirely different backgrounds come together based on their morality. Good vid tho love the thought experiment 👌🏼 Keep it up! 👍🏻 Subscribed 🤙🏻
Took the recommendation from Schnee, and I don't regret it in the slightest. Subbed!
I still feel that Cooper is protecting himself by hiding behind his cowboy character. He is projecting this gruff exterior in order to protect the parts of himself that would look at what he is doing and be appalled at his actions. Still a very good read on both Lucy and Cooper. I subbed just in the off chance that you make more of these kinds of videos.
Cheers!
i've been waiting to see some fallout show video essays. Yippee!!!
Great video! Thanks so much for your hard work! Videos like this always get the creative thoughts flowing.
I like to think of these differences in reactions as reactions to two different worlds falling apart. The idea of THE world falling, and THEIR world falling apart. Did the character already have a clear dividing line between the two or were they forced to draw one after the death of the other?
It seems like the two of them saw the world as one. That THEIR world was THE world, and the story is about bring shape to both as complex, separate yet interlaced entities within their perception.
You're exposition is very nice set up for telling for the rest of the video!! :D Can't wait to see you take off! I'm sticking around! So many well wishes and good luck for you!
I really that you are providing positive feedback and literary analysis here. It is great when you can learn in a constructive way and gain a deeper appreciation for the metrology behind the story writing.
Great video!
Fantastic vidya! Gods, I was convinced that Fallout was unadaptable, I was over encumbered with doubt that this series would get anywhere close to good.
I was thoroughly flabbergasted by the detailed faithfulness, the character depth, the accessibility for non fans, and more than all of those- the true to form Fallout tone. I’ve been gushing about it to anyone who’ll listen, because I swear I didn’t think it was possible to do it right.
The choice to depict every character and group clearly having to make hard decisions all the time, and developing their own sense of morality based on that reality. But also being deliciously subtle about the moral hypocrisy inherent in people in general. Especially in Hank and Moldavar.
Hank choosing to save his daughter over multiple vault dwellers, one life over many. It’s totally understandable to most viewers in the moment, even though the moral math is wrong.
Moldavar was clearly in love with Rose, and yet kept her around even after she went feral. It’s the kind of cruelty that love makes people capable of.
Hank’s line about Moldavar being a murderer ‘Just like him’ recognizing that she is just as capable of atrocity to serve her own values as he is.
And also Thaddeus with his whole ‘bullying out of self preservation’ thing.
Centering the show on the moral decisions, was such a baller move! “Everybody wants to save the world, they just disagree on how.”
Sorry for the paragraph, so excited for your next video now, so stick around! ❤
9:33 my only disagreement would be here at this point, where in the movie set cooper asks not to shoot the man and is directed to do so. whereas post apocalyptic cooper pulls the trigger with no outside actors pushing him to do so. I felt that this was a huge indicator that cooper was a more moral man pre apocalypse. The rest of this video was great tho excited to see you grow!
this was so well done!! from the organization to the cute chibi on screen-i also love the idea of pre-war cooper understanding post-war cooper’s actions and motivations and how, despite the “monstrous” appearance, his character is not a monster (or maybe will be one if necessary but not on instinct). i can’t wait to see where these characters go in season 2 😭😭😭
Amazing writing on your part!
When the Coop tells Lucy that he’s her, I knew that he meant that he was once as idealistic as she is, but living in the wasteland will eat at your soul.
I can relate
Second watch through the realization that they both have vault tech betrayals really solidified it. That even the best of us fall
When coop eats that guy’s ass, it was awesome
I think its deeper than that.
Cooper is still Idealistic. But in a systemic structure that literally does not give him the options he wants to take. So he winds up choosing to make worse decisions. And becomes numb to it.
The way most people become numb to the shitty decisions out own system compels us to accept as good.
I think there's a 3rd thing that makes an apocolyps monster. And number 3 is that they enjoy it. Doing what you need to do to survive is one thing. Being needlessly cruel because you find it fun is a whole different thing.
Fantastic breakdown of their character. I thought it was gonna be a bit of a stretch when you came up with your monster definition, but you brought it home in the end.
Curious to see where they take their moral compass next season. Great video!
They will probably have fun
This is really super intelligent and well observed. You’ve added to my appreciation for the show in ways I didn’t have language for. Thank you 🙏
For a first video, this is fan fuckin-tastic. And the analysis and writing. AMAZING
the editing on this is insane
Fantastic video, incredible script. Keep it up!!
I love your transition titles! It really helps me follow your analysis.
Subscribed!
I love rubbing the playground until my hair stands up
This was really thought provoking! Great job.
This is the best analysis of the Fallout TV series that I've seen so far.
It's amazing how thought put this show is. I didn't fully realize the parallels between these two. Great video
This is your first video? That’s crazy, awesome job and I’m so happy I saw this
Oho man, i see this going places. Cant wait to see what you make next Squircle!
I tried giving the fallout show a try, and I wasn't feeling it, but your video convinced me to give it another shot.
this comment alone made all the time I spent making this video worthwhile 🥹
I wasn't feeling it after the first 2 episodes but I ended up really enjoying it. I look forward to s2
Really good character analysis. I noticed some of the parallels between the characters, but I didn't make a conscious connection between them. What a good video hope to see more
This was a fantastic breakdown holy moly
Great video and analysis. Really enjoyed. The one thing I would say though is that Coop is actually more of a "monster" than Lucy because of his complete disregard for human life. Sure he had the mercy killing scene of his ghoul friend, but in Filly he indiscriminately murderered / mamed a large number of people, he even deliberately antagonized that one guy's kid Tommy to get him to draw his weapon so he could kill him in front of his dad.
Coop doesnt just act in self defense. He is damn near unkillable and casually took multiple bullets to the back in Filly. He doesnt just kill people / blow their limbs off to the necessary degree for his own safety - he goes above and beyond. In the first episode he says he does it for the love of the game. In reality i think hes bitter about the world and is giving out his form of justice, rather than actually enjoying the thrill of combat or killing. But nevertheless, Lucy never does anything like this. The worst she did was throw acid on that scientists face in vault 4 when she was desperately trying to escape and basically in a frantic state like a cornered prey animal. Coop is never in that kind of desperate situation, hes in control at all times yet blows people apart casually even when its not necessary.
FOR THE RECORD I 100% agree that Cooper is a terrible person, BUT if we are asking the question of whether he was fundamentally emotionally altered by the apocalypse (the kind of monster I talked about here), I’d say that’s much more of a grey area
@@squircleworks42 I trully do not understand how you could argue that. Pre war he is a moral man, and only through great physical and emotional deconstruction does he get to where he is later.
Cooper would be HORRIFIED by what the ghoul does, especially to that young boy. Just because there exists some sort of ideological or thematic through line between the two instances of his personality does not mean they are identical. People can change
Coop's also 200 years in. Also he didn't start blasting in Filly till the shop lady called for a bounty on his head.
@@xrphoenix7194I completely agree with this take
Cooper Howard was a good man The Ghoul is someone that does what he must to survive in the wasteland he is correct if Lucy is to survive outside of her vault, she will have to become less good and more ghoul.
nice video, the mic and editing threw me back to early windowsmoviemaker youtube
This is just an engagement comment, and I haven't watched the show.
I see at least three ways to answer the question of the thumbmail. Is cooper a monster, according to apocalypse naratives? (The direction you spoke on.)
Acording to our societie's morals. (Discussed in the chat.) And according to the societies of the world he lives in. (Which is brushed on when discussing Lucy's opinion of his actions before and after she's willing to shoot a ghoul in the head when not in self defense. But has room for more discussion.)
Also, here from Schnee's Angel Dust video.
SAME!!!!
It's absolutely poetic that the _"Nuclear Family"_ results in nukes going off for said family, maybe the true family is the nukes we find along the way? Or something something family never changes :D
I was CACKLING when I wrote that header. Also I want "the true family is the nukes we find along the way" on a t-shirt
Wonderfully done analysis. Kudos! The brilliance of the writing is that it never seems forced and evolves in an organic way with both Lucy and Cooper. Another factor that underlies their arcs is PTSD ... Cooper from his service as a Marine in Alaska and 219 years in the Wasteland, and Lucy from the trials and tribulations that begin in Vault 33 and that culminates in the final scene. So, the Ghoul's line about "you're me, just give it a bit of time" resonates with any veteran, whether from Vietnam or Afghanistan.
The analyzing and commentary is stellar I was surprised you didn't have more subs! Good editing too, keep going!
im actually in love with this video
Super impressed with this analysis- and can’t believe this is your first video! Wow! Instantly subbed 💗
Hear Schnee picks your brain from time to time.
he my study buddy 👍
5:15 War…war never changes.
What a great juxtaposition between Cooper and Lucy, I hadn’t thought of it that way.
commenting for engagement! keep up the great work!
Today I learned I will not become become an apocalypse monster. However I suspect that is because I’m already a monster. This is such a well researched and understood review 10/10 :)
This is funny, im getting to find so many channels through recommendations and they all turn out amazing! B Sanderson -> Local -> Schnee -> Squircle, wonder where its going
ooh i am a fan of this chain 😃
Very good point about how other wastlanders see Lucy vs how The Ghoul sees her.
At first we see him as cruel and merciless but this show is great at perspective, and we gradually come to see he does have mercy in his own way.
But even more interesting is that the Ghoul recognizes Lucy as being like him.
Both Lucy and the Ghoul start out in a place of privilege due to their circumstance and luck.
Both believe the world opperates a certain way and then both have their world shattered by soneone in their own family doing something horrible.
The difference like the Ghoul mentioned is time. The Ghoul has had centuries to stew on his mistakes and life. Lucys only begun her journey and had already become much more hardened.
You said this was your first video? If yes, Excellent work! Your voice is wonderful for this type of content, and your pacing of speech was superb as well.
The one comment I can make is merely a personal preference, that being the presence of small amounts of humor. Good humor comes from a place of comfort, so take your time and don’t rush it if you wish to add humor to your analyses.
Can't wait to watch this after finishing fallout. Also hell yeah, zero activation cost ^^
This was a really great breakdown of the two characters! I look forward to any future videos you make!
Really enjoyed this, the breakdowns of the dual moments were very nicely done and spelled out.
I find a comment that you made interesting. You say around 3:40 that Vault-Tec proposed dropping the bomb themselves to eliminate their competitors. Barb's line saying they'd do this was in response to House asking how they can guarantee that there will be results, that the money put into their sponsorship of the vaults will not be wasted. My interpretation is that Vault-Tec would be willing to drop the bomb to ensure that their product will be used and to ensure that they will be able to shape some sort of society, rather than a simple elimination of competition.
I don’t know if this is the actual lore of fallout, but I can’t imagine anyone would ever do something like that to eliminate competition. People are short sighted, but not that short sighted
Excited to see what you do with your channel. Impressive initial upload! I think you should mine Fallout for a while for the clicks, then focus on whatever you like. I want to hear your opinions on things I haven't seen, or have decided not to see. Perhaps it might change my mind, and it will definitely be a nice watch!
Oh it's so lovely to have another interesting video essayist. Keep up the good work and I'm sure I'll be seeing more of your content in the future!💖
Very well done Video, especially as a way start off a Channel with, i wonder what you’ll cover next?
Really great analysis! Best of luck on future videos!!
I LOVED this video!!! I can’t wait for more! ❤❤❤
Can't wait to see more of your work, you did a great analysis!
This is a wonderful analysis and a fantastic way to start your TH-cam career! Hopefully you see lots of success going forward
Lucy killed her mom.... I think she now understands what coop did FOR and not TO Roger
This is really interesting! Really flew over my head as I watched the show. I'm looking forward to your future video essays and I hope you gain more subs!
Banger first video. Love the points, love the way you present them, excited to see more!
The preapocalypse Cooper we meet was already a war veteran, experienced with the heavy armor suits.