I'm glad someone compiled this because I don't have the guts to do it myself! Although I think I've heard someone say that something also happens if you try using the dagger on a family member again and again, but I don't quite remember, just leaving this here in case someone knows something
If you use the dagger on your family members over and over, siffrin belittles himself saying "no you wont ever hurt them!" and ends with "haha! the intrusive thoughts are getting in the way of your suicide!" I believe..
@@pinkcicle5247God that's awful, honestly kind of respect the inclusion of this mechanic to this game, it would be easy to not touch the topic at hand directly (being self harm and suicidal thoughts) but it feels so "right" as a natural development of the events of the game, it just also really gels well in a timeloop plot as the usual "can of worms" that can be found in that kind of stories
Sifrin is truly a character study because he’d literally rather off himself in front of his allies than have an actual conversation with them about his troubles.
The way this is treated with such a weight. Siffrin is literally dehumanizing their body for the sake of efficiency and i love how it's conveyed. the more you do it, the less the action, or rather your own body matter to you (Read how it went from "You killed yourself" to "You saved yourself some time", completely disregarding how much this SHOULD mean) Loop is right, this is a slippery slope, because once you get over the shock of it, it's like you lose a part of yourself that was sacred Great writing, srsly
@@kauedasilva1072 No, I completely understand you. In games, I usually treat death pretty lightly, so I remembered thinking the very gruesome notion of "I wonder if Sif can just off themselves on runs they think are hopeless. That can speed things up, right?" Having the game itself place so much weight on it gave me an "Oh god what AM I thinking?" when it came to making such a decision. No game has ever gave me such a pause. It's super effective in placing you in Sif's shoes, even giving you a moment of clarity in which you've gone through so many loops something you can consider "An easy way out" is seen as absolutely demented to an outsider. It's a good way to show the inherent horror of looping so much.
Yeah… at first it has a whole “oh sheesh, this is horrible” vibe, but after enough times it just becomes “well, this is the quickest way to loop, so!” Really not a fun train of thought to go down, poor Siffrin :(
Fun fact: if you select your other party members in the Dagger screen Siffrin will outright *refuse* to do it. After 5 or so selections Sif just immediately offs themselves. If you do this again Sif will complain about their intrusive thoughts getting in the way of them offing themselves
The sheer depth of my pity for poor Loop. Having to watch someone you care about (even unwillingly) do this to themselves, knowing exactly where it leads but being unable to fight it.
something more terrifying spoilers watching yourself go through the same situations you did, sanity on a decline, slowly resorting to worse and worse means
I love how for every single time that Loop says to have a wonderful loop at the end of all the kept-dagger dialog from the question, it sounds forced and behind gritted teeth, with 'wonderful' in all caps, while the same line for losing the ability to loop back with the dagger sounds way more genuine and sincere
I accidentally softlocked myself once with the dagger. I used it in the corridor just before the tutorial fight, and instead of looping back, I was just left with a black screen. I spent like 15 seconds expecting a jumpscare of some sort before realizing I could open the menu again, but Siffrin was stuck at 0 HP and the dagger was greyed out in my inventory, so all I could do was load an old save. I know it was probably just a bug, but it sure felt like something that could have been deliberately left in, and it scared me into never using it again.
That is very unsettling! I never encountered that particular bug. I can say that it was probably not intentionally left there, because insertdisc5 (the creator of the game) has actually answered the question of which features were originally bugs! Slight spoilers for Acts 4 and 5: The first of the two they mention is the ability in Act 4 to just sit with Loop. There was a bug where a certain Loop conversation didn't end properly, resulting in a softlock with Siffrin being stuck sitting silently under the tree with Loop. The creator found it kind of peaceful, so they made it a feature. The second is the mirror scene in Act 5. The game brought a beta tester to the wrong version of the mirror room, causing it to play the standard Act 4 mirror scene instead of showing only Siffrin. When the beta tester looked at the picture in their pocket afterwards, it was the picture of Siffrin alone The player was creeped out by that, much like with your bug, and requested that insertdisc5 keep it in the game.
There is also a slight dialogue variation if you return the dagger without ever killing yourself with it...Loop brings it up and mentions that they are glad you decided not to use it after all. Source: my playthrough. I felt too bad for Loop and my party members to go through with it for the achievement.
Man I know it doesn’t matter ultimately because they forget But sif could’ve absolutely given a lame excuse and flee into a different room or told them to turn around or something Damn…
It’s a great parallel with the time with the first tear, when you choose to touch it. On that one, you DO give a lame excuse to have them not watch. It is a little different though, cuz the whole point of the dagger is to save time. If you have to make an excuse and walk away every time, then you might as well just find a different way to die. They typically are just a room away anyway.
Ngl I think that would’ve been worse “Hey what’s that behind you guys?” Then they turn around and when they look back Siffrins fucking dead Especially sense the dagger isn’t IMMEDIATE death they could’ve had time to turn back around and see Siffrin dead bleeding out on the floor
6:40 Y'know, I never considered it from Loop's perspective but- [SPOILERS] How fucked up would it be that you wished so hard for the end to come, reincarnate in a completely foreign body, seeing another version of yourself stuck in the same situation, and then end up going to the point where YOU are asking YOURSELF on how to commit sewerslide so you can go slightly faster. Damn, that's gotta be fucked up. Loop's right too, they don't really have a reason to care. This Siff isn't Loop, but still- seeing yourself being so willing to just... end it like that. Must be traumatizing. Do you think Loop tried it before too? Back before they completely broke in Start Again?
This is actually really cool! I didnt get the dagger on my playthrough, but seeing isabeau actually notice the first time you use it is kind of scary tbh.
I didn’t see anyone at all talking about this, it truly hit me out of nowhere. I actually had to put the game down for a couple of days, seeing Siffrin struggle like that and Loops utter disgust and disappointment in me for letting that happen to them was so devastating. I’m so happy they got a happy ending but I regret having let the intrusive thoughts win.
The fact you get multiple warning signs before you even get the choice to use the Dagger probably makes not doing it a good idea! Loop is just looking out for ya.
Out of curiosity, have you seen the Act 6 secret scene? If not, I think you'll find it very interesting... (though I won't say exactly why because ~spoilers~)
@@EldritchGriffin Oh of course I have. I was just trying to give a hint of the irony without spoiling it. As you know, Isabeau is The Defender as the menu tells us. Spoilers!!!: But he WAS called the Fighter in SASASA:ap, which is where Loop came from. But I could not say so without spoiling all of Act 6 ^^. They speak from experience.
Apparentlty I missed a lot of ways to mentally destroy siffrin/myself when I played through ISAT. I'm not sure if I should feel glad I avoided it or sad I missed parts of the gameplay.
I never used it in my game because i was actually worried if this would affect Siffrin for the worst and change the ending or something like that, quite hilarious that i REALLY wanted to use it in act 5 because of what Siffrin was doing but the game doesn't let you. This game is amazing
Yeah you just only save SECONDS if you use the dagger because there are tears everywhere when you reach floor 2 and you only need to walk a little if you are in floor 1 so there's really no point in using it unless you are that impatient
I was playing on switch, so i wasn’t motivated by any achievements. But I still did the dagger thing and then IMMEDIATELY chickened out after the first time xP
I feel like the banana removes the sting from this/takes it's place. It'd hit more if you could talk to loop about not having an easy way to loop to the castle from the village, then Siffirin thinks of their knife. it'd be better, considering none of the implications about the knife are done to the banana.
I went back to play through Acts 5 and 6, and the dagger gets removed from your items pocket for Act 6. Act 5, however, has the line "Don't think about it." if you try to use the dagger on yourself (or anyone else). So, no dagger looping past Act 4 (Although, I did discover there's a slight change in the dialogue during the secret ending scene if you chose to use the dagger)
After you've looped with tears at least 20 times, the dagger conversation can happen if you chat with Loop. I'm not sure if it can appear in Act 2, or only Act 3 on, but you should be fine if you're in Act 4
A true test of YOUR morality, how far would you be willing to go for convenience? Would you go so far as to have Siffrin desecrate the one thing that they keep?
"Keep" is a generous term considering how scarily willing Siffrin is to sacrifice themselves for the party members. The whole reason Siff's eye is gone is because he tried to save Bonnie from a sadness. To a certain extent, this is just an extension of that "sacrifice" to be able to reunite with his "real" family sooner rather than later.
I was rewatching this video and looking at the comments. Came across this one and spent like 20 seconds trying to parse what it meant... before I was it was my own comment. Still don't know what it means 💅
I'm glad someone compiled this because I don't have the guts to do it myself!
Although I think I've heard someone say that something also happens if you try using the dagger on a family member again and again, but I don't quite remember, just leaving this here in case someone knows something
If you use the dagger on your family members over and over, siffrin belittles himself saying "no you wont ever hurt them!" and ends with "haha! the intrusive thoughts are getting in the way of your suicide!" I believe..
(No.)
(This isn't something to use on family members.)
(Why would you do this?)
(No.)
(No!)
(Stop thinking about it!)
(You will never do it!)
(NEVER!)
@@corvidaeae Yes ty!
@@corvidaeae oh wow that's really cool! (IN A BAD WAY!)
@@pinkcicle5247God that's awful, honestly kind of respect the inclusion of this mechanic to this game, it would be easy to not touch the topic at hand directly (being self harm and suicidal thoughts) but it feels so "right" as a natural development of the events of the game, it just also really gels well in a timeloop plot as the usual "can of worms" that can be found in that kind of stories
Sifrin is truly a character study because he’d literally rather off himself in front of his allies than have an actual conversation with them about his troubles.
So true
Relatable
@@Cu-Copper DUDE THAT SHOULDNT BE RELATEABLE NOOOOO
@@Cu-CopperDude u ok? Need to talk?
@@GL-hh1pv nah last time I did that I got locked up in an asylum
The way this is treated with such a weight. Siffrin is literally dehumanizing their body for the sake of efficiency and i love how it's conveyed. the more you do it, the less the action, or rather your own body matter to you (Read how it went from "You killed yourself" to "You saved yourself some time", completely disregarding how much this SHOULD mean)
Loop is right, this is a slippery slope, because once you get over the shock of it, it's like you lose a part of yourself that was sacred
Great writing, srsly
This exactly. It's so much more serious than most other deaths, and understandably so
I actually remember rejecting the option the first time the game offered it and after seeing this… I made the right choice.
@@kauedasilva1072 No, I completely understand you. In games, I usually treat death pretty lightly, so I remembered thinking the very gruesome notion of "I wonder if Sif can just off themselves on runs they think are hopeless. That can speed things up, right?"
Having the game itself place so much weight on it gave me an "Oh god what AM I thinking?" when it came to making such a decision. No game has ever gave me such a pause. It's super effective in placing you in Sif's shoes, even giving you a moment of clarity in which you've gone through so many loops something you can consider "An easy way out" is seen as absolutely demented to an outsider. It's a good way to show the inherent horror of looping so much.
Yeah… at first it has a whole “oh sheesh, this is horrible” vibe, but after enough times it just becomes “well, this is the quickest way to loop, so!” Really not a fun train of thought to go down, poor Siffrin :(
I used the dagger exactly once, and the reactions of the party made me quit right then and there lol.
Loop’s dead eye sprite when you first acquire the dagger gave me genuine chills
The only other instance you see the sprite during the talk with the Change God is even more chilling.
@@crowsenpai5625 especially when knowing that change god is a 2005 4chan user
@@Kinglovinstone (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧
Fun fact: if you select your other party members in the Dagger screen Siffrin will outright *refuse* to do it. After 5 or so selections Sif just immediately offs themselves. If you do this again Sif will complain about their intrusive thoughts getting in the way of them offing themselves
The sheer depth of my pity for poor Loop. Having to watch someone you care about (even unwillingly) do this to themselves, knowing exactly where it leads but being unable to fight it.
The perils of wishing for help. The help goes wherever Sif wants, not Loop's. Ouch
something more terrifying
spoilers
watching yourself go through the same situations you did, sanity on a decline, slowly resorting to worse and worse means
I love how for every single time that Loop says to have a wonderful loop at the end of all the kept-dagger dialog from the question, it sounds forced and behind gritted teeth, with 'wonderful' in all caps, while the same line for losing the ability to loop back with the dagger sounds way more genuine and sincere
Also their text beeping doesn't sound like it usually does, like they are dropping the cheerful showy façade.
I accidentally softlocked myself once with the dagger. I used it in the corridor just before the tutorial fight, and instead of looping back, I was just left with a black screen. I spent like 15 seconds expecting a jumpscare of some sort before realizing I could open the menu again, but Siffrin was stuck at 0 HP and the dagger was greyed out in my inventory, so all I could do was load an old save. I know it was probably just a bug, but it sure felt like something that could have been deliberately left in, and it scared me into never using it again.
That is very unsettling! I never encountered that particular bug. I can say that it was probably not intentionally left there, because insertdisc5 (the creator of the game) has actually answered the question of which features were originally bugs!
Slight spoilers for Acts 4 and 5:
The first of the two they mention is the ability in Act 4 to just sit with Loop. There was a bug where a certain Loop conversation didn't end properly, resulting in a softlock with Siffrin being stuck sitting silently under the tree with Loop. The creator found it kind of peaceful, so they made it a feature.
The second is the mirror scene in Act 5. The game brought a beta tester to the wrong version of the mirror room, causing it to play the standard Act 4 mirror scene instead of showing only Siffrin. When the beta tester looked at the picture in their pocket afterwards, it was the picture of Siffrin alone The player was creeped out by that, much like with your bug, and requested that insertdisc5 keep it in the game.
There is also a slight dialogue variation if you return the dagger without ever killing yourself with it...Loop brings it up and mentions that they are glad you decided not to use it after all.
Source: my playthrough. I felt too bad for Loop and my party members to go through with it for the achievement.
Man I know it doesn’t matter ultimately because they forget
But sif could’ve absolutely given a lame excuse and flee into a different room or told them to turn around or something
Damn…
It’s a great parallel with the time with the first tear, when you choose to touch it. On that one, you DO give a lame excuse to have them not watch. It is a little different though, cuz the whole point of the dagger is to save time. If you have to make an excuse and walk away every time, then you might as well just find a different way to die. They typically are just a room away anyway.
Ngl I think that would’ve been worse
“Hey what’s that behind you guys?”
Then they turn around and when they look back Siffrins fucking dead
Especially sense the dagger isn’t IMMEDIATE death they could’ve had time to turn back around and see Siffrin dead bleeding out on the floor
@@TotallysleepingrnNono it’s just Siffrin’s awesome new magic trick called “Fucking suicide”
i felt _so bad_ pushing loop to let me use the dagger. LOOP I'M SO SORRY IF THERE WEREN'T TWO WHOLE ACHIEVEMENTS CONNECTED TO THIS I WOULDN'T DO IT
6:40 Y'know, I never considered it from Loop's perspective but- [SPOILERS]
How fucked up would it be that you wished so hard for the end to come, reincarnate in a completely foreign body, seeing another version of yourself stuck in the same situation, and then end up going to the point where YOU are asking YOURSELF on how to commit sewerslide so you can go slightly faster. Damn, that's gotta be fucked up.
Loop's right too, they don't really have a reason to care. This Siff isn't Loop, but still- seeing yourself being so willing to just... end it like that. Must be traumatizing.
Do you think Loop tried it before too? Back before they completely broke in Start Again?
This is actually really cool! I didnt get the dagger on my playthrough, but seeing isabeau actually notice the first time you use it is kind of scary tbh.
I didn’t see anyone at all talking about this, it truly hit me out of nowhere. I actually had to put the game down for a couple of days, seeing Siffrin struggle like that and Loops utter disgust and disappointment in me for letting that happen to them was so devastating. I’m so happy they got a happy ending but I regret having let the intrusive thoughts win.
This is the thing that has fucked with me the most since playing. It’s so well done. It’s absolutely horrible.
The fact you get multiple warning signs before you even get the choice to use the Dagger probably makes not doing it a good idea!
Loop is just looking out for ya.
I'm not going to get into spoilers in a comment section but so many of Loop's responses have major implications related to Two Hats
Two Hats?
@estellairon9448 Two Hats is the secret ending
YEAH
Definitely gives vibes of having already did that before. Just doesn't like being reminded of it
Interesting dialogue, I fortunately didn’t see because I was on the same page as Loop.
I did it exactly twice and decided "yeah I'm good." So thank you for this
10:30 This video confirms many reads I had. Good that I noticed
10:41 This is from someone who calls someone as distinct as Isabeau "The Fighter".
Out of curiosity, have you seen the Act 6 secret scene? If not, I think you'll find it very interesting... (though I won't say exactly why because ~spoilers~)
@@EldritchGriffin Oh of course I have. I was just trying to give a hint of the irony without spoiling it. As you know, Isabeau is The Defender as the menu tells us.
Spoilers!!!:
But he WAS called the Fighter in SASASA:ap, which is where Loop came from. But I could not say so without spoiling all of Act 6 ^^. They speak from experience.
Yeah, 100% projecting from Loop right there 😂
Man, and here I thought that the game couldn't get any darker
Apparentlty I missed a lot of ways to mentally destroy siffrin/myself when I played through ISAT. I'm not sure if I should feel glad I avoided it or sad I missed parts of the gameplay.
this is truly a shadow the hedgehog moment
I'm not sure how this is a Shadow the Hedgehog moment, but I can respect it
@@EldritchGriffin cuz he possibly wants to commit die in the sonic fandom due to some of the horrid monstrosities they made of him
Spooky! Good thing I stuck with tear looping!
I never used it in my game because i was actually worried if this would affect Siffrin for the worst and change the ending or something like that, quite hilarious that i REALLY wanted to use it in act 5 because of what Siffrin was doing but the game doesn't let you. This game is amazing
Never even encountered the option...
I always refused to loop back with the tears except when i get stuck
I kinda wish after the screen turns black it waits a few seconds before Sif starts looping
But that would go against the point of sewerslide in the first place. Going faster
I got the dagger but *BOY* I did not have the guts to use it
i'll be honest
i usually just resort to death by rock if i'm going fast, so it's not like i ever needed the dagger anyways
it tickles me every time Loop pulls out an "It's fine."
thank you for this video ive been trying to find the dialogues for this too but could never find them anywhere
Oh yay! Siffrin breakdown!
I beat the game too fast to get the dagger stuff to happen lol so I’m glad someone has it
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POSTING THESE!!!
ngl loop seems like a good guy (havent played the game tho so idk)
You really should give it a try, it's so good.
2:08 loop that was 10 seconds ago
Y’know, it isn’t all that inconvenient to use tears…
Yeah you just only save SECONDS if you use the dagger because there are tears everywhere when you reach floor 2 and you only need to walk a little if you are in floor 1 so there's really no point in using it unless you are that impatient
I was playing on switch, so i wasn’t motivated by any achievements. But I still did the dagger thing and then IMMEDIATELY chickened out after the first time xP
SIFFRIN ARE YOU OKAY??? DO YOU WANNA TALK???
If you refuse the dagger option the first time, will you be able to get it again later?
Nope, you only get the one chance. I believe you also only get one chance to return it
10:42 why are there stars present for this? Are they there any other time?
I'm pretty sure that's the only time that happens in the game, though I couldn't tell you why
They're just a part of the favor tree scene. You can see one of the stars on the bottom left doesn't change at all
I feel like the banana removes the sting from this/takes it's place. It'd hit more if you could talk to loop about not having an easy way to loop to the castle from the village, then Siffirin thinks of their knife. it'd be better, considering none of the implications about the knife are done to the banana.
Is there any special response if you tried to use the dagger in Act 6?
I went back to play through Acts 5 and 6, and the dagger gets removed from your items pocket for Act 6. Act 5, however, has the line "Don't think about it." if you try to use the dagger on yourself (or anyone else). So, no dagger looping past Act 4 (Although, I did discover there's a slight change in the dialogue during the secret ending scene if you chose to use the dagger)
2:44 how did I NEVER figure it out this is so obvious
Imagine the reaction of Sif's friends
They would be panicking
I didn’t watch so I don’t get spoiled (I’m playing blind and just got into act 4) but when does this option occur?
After you've looped with tears at least 20 times, the dagger conversation can happen if you chat with Loop. I'm not sure if it can appear in Act 2, or only Act 3 on, but you should be fine if you're in Act 4
@@EldritchGriffin Thanks a ton!
Loop Zoop
I absolutely lost it laughing when I finished watching this harrowing video and scrolled down to find the comment 'Loop Zoop'. Thank you for that.
you didnt do the "But what if..." dialogue...
Whoops, my bad! It just goes directly to the same "Stardust, I don't want you to!!!" line at 03:01, which is probably why I missed it during editing
@@EldritchGriffin ah ok, thank you!
7:03
A true test of YOUR morality, how far would you be willing to go for convenience? Would you go so far as to have Siffrin desecrate the one thing that they keep?
Yuti, what are you doing here?
@@The-terraria-boí umm i love isat?
@@Yuti640 fair enough
"Keep" is a generous term considering how scarily willing Siffrin is to sacrifice themselves for the party members.
The whole reason Siff's eye is gone is because he tried to save Bonnie from a sadness. To a certain extent, this is just an extension of that "sacrifice" to be able to reunite with his "real" family sooner rather than later.
If I got the game, I’d use the dagger over and over again for fun
No!
@ >:3
Love it. Pain. Siffrin =suffrin-suffering. Uwu you is too cool, queen 👉👈
I was rewatching this video and looking at the comments. Came across this one and spent like 20 seconds trying to parse what it meant... before I was it was my own comment. Still don't know what it means 💅